TWiT 209/Transcript

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Episode 209


This transcript is provided by our friends at Pods in Print

Leo Laporte Bandwidth for this WEEK in TECH is provided by AOL Music and where you can get free MP3s, exclusive interviews and more. This is TWiT, this WEEK in TECH, Episode 209 for August, 24, 2009. Dvorak Shrugged.

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This is TWiT, this WEEK in TECH, the stories are yours, the conversation is ours John C. Dvorak, from the Channel Dvorak, Tech5, No Agenda, Cranky Geeks, formerly of Silicon Spin, PC Columnist.

John C. Dvorak MarketWatch.

Leo Laporte And MarketWatch. Thank you John for being here today.

John C. Dvorak Also BUG Magazine in Croatia.

Leo Laporte BUG?

John C. Dvorak Yeah, BUG.

Leo Laporte Is it a – you write about entomology?

John C. Dvorak And Info! in Brazil.

Leo Laporte And Info! in Brazil. When we first started working together, John and I have been working together since 1991. And when we first started working together, I think you were in 23 magazines, 23 columns a month.

John C. Dvorak It was 23 columns a month, but it wasn’t… a lot of it was [indiscernible].

Leo Laporte Oh yeah PC Mag was like…

John C. Dvorak I was also writing for The Examiner.

Leo Laporte Yeah that was like everyday. Hate that, hate that. Also with us and the first time, and I am really thrilled to get you on the show, Om Malik from GigaOM.

Om Malik Hey Leo, thanks for having me.

Leo Laporte You’ve got an empire now over at GigaOM.

Om Malik I don’t know, not as big an empire as you have.

Leo Laporte Well how many – so it was originally just your blog and now you’ve got a number of bloggers working for you and it seems like a number of channels too?

Om Malik Right. We have seven blogs now including GigaOm, we have NewTeeVee, Earth2Tech, WebWorkerDaily, OStatic, TheAppleBlog and jkOnTheRun [ph] including.

Leo Laporte Wow!

Om Malik And we’ve just launched a subscription service called GigaOM Pro, which is a research service for $80 a year, you get it unlimited research on five verticals for now and we keep adding more verticals to it.

Leo Laporte It’s funny because John and I always talked about doing some vertical stuff. Well that’s where the money is, isn’t it? Where you can get an executive to lay some dough on you for information that can help them in their business?

Om Malik Right.

Leo Laporte We just thought that would be smart thing to do. Did you ever do that John?

John C. Dvorak No, no. Did you do it?

Leo Laporte Om is a smart guy. No I didn’t do it.

John C. Dvorak Okay.

Leo Laporte You know why I didn’t do it? For one reason only, I just – it’s more fun for me to cover end user computing than anything else. I have no interest in business.

John C. Dvorak What you really have interest in is playing around with overpriced gear.

Leo Laporte That’s it, that’s all it is.

John C. Dvorak Look at this gear he’s got, he’s got a whole new rig in here, people who’re listening to be the podcast don’t know it but he’s got like – look, you feel like you are on a Star Trek set, only the stuff actually works.

Leo Laporte Do you know how many screens now I have around me? I have 13 screens surrounding me.

John C. Dvorak Yeah.

Leo Laporte It’s ridiculous

John C. Dvorak Yeah, it is, and why do you – what do you with them?

Leo Laporte Well, thank this guy here, Kirk Harnack, he is the Harnack the Magnificent we’re calling him. He is the guy – Director of International Business for Telos Corporation. Telos makes the Zephyrs that you and I use, they make phone interfaces in radio stations. What I didn’t know is they also make sound consoles. So Kirk out of the blue about six months ago sent me an email saying, “I hear all the trouble you’re having with mix-minus on Skype, maybe you would like to try this stuff”. And so they’ve lent us an Axia system, that’s what we’re using here. It’s a digital – I am going to give them a big plug because it’s very kind of them.

John C. Dvorak Obviously you should.

Leo Laporte Well, they lent it to us.

John C. Dvorak It’s an 18 channel?

Leo Laporte It’s like a $30,000 audio system.

John C. Dvorak

It’s 18 channels. What do you need 18 channels for? 

Leo Laporte But it’s – but you know what’s neat about it? It’s… Oh, we use them. Kirk asked the same thing. He said how many channels? I said 18. He said what so you need 18 channels for?

John C. Dvorak Well explain it, I sure can’t get it.

Leo Laporte Kirk, are we not using them all in some form or fashion? I mean there’s a few empty ones.

Kirk Harnack Most of them. I mean we’ve got a couple to fill up, but we’ll have – we’ll have an auxiliary input here tomorrow, where you can bring an iPod or something to plug in if a guest has something to play.

Leo Laporte Oh that’s nice.

Kirk Harnack Yeah.

Leo Laporte It’s digital, which is neat. I mean that’s – for us this is really kind of timely because we used to be doing – microphones are still analog obviously, they have to record your voice. But everything else like Om is coming in through Skype on a digital channel, why should we make a conversion to analog at any point and that’s we were doing. So now Om’s audio stays digital from end-to-end, the only thing analog is your headset Om, and the rest of it comes in.

Kirk Harnack You know the cool thing is it’s not just digital, it’s all IP. So we’ve made – our people have made digital consoles for quite a few years now, for about probably 20 years there’ve been digital consoles which are digital equivalents of what they replaced analog.

Leo Laporte Music studios now are all recording digitally, using Pro Tools and recording digital media.

Kirk Harnack Yes, yes.

John C. Dvorak But the IP part is interesting.

Leo Laporte But this is completely different, yeah.

Kirk Harnack [ph] But this in here is IP and we’re one of only three companies that does that, and we were the first.

Leo Laporte So if you look underneath my desk, it used to be all these analog wires, I mean like hundreds of analog wires going under here. Now it’s one – basically one Ethernet cable that carries all the data. It is a dedicated Ethernet LAN though because we decided not to mix the packets with our business LAN, so we have two LANs. So every computer that we’re getting audio from or audio into has to have two network cards, so the – we’re recording this for instance on a PC with Audition. That’s got a regular LAN card to get out to the outside world, but it’s also got the audio LAN, that’s what I’m calling it, the audio LAN.

Kirk Harnack Yeah.

Leo Laporte And that’s the packets there going back and forth, they are all from the Axia system. But I tell you there’s no noise. It’s really amazing and then there’s built-in – the board is a – the board is not the mixer– the board is just a – it’s like a keyboard. It’s a surface.

Kirk Harnack That beautiful thing that John [ph] was talking about; it’s a mouse that looks like a console.

Leo Laporte Yeah and then all of the stuff is behind you that’s really doing all the work. But that’s a Core II, right?

Kirk Harnack It’s Core II Duo and the consoles basically exists in software. We’ve got guys in Riga, Latvia who write the code for that.

John C. Dvorak So this thing is just basically a mouse?

Kirk Harnack It’s a mouse that’s look like a console.

John C. Dvorak Did you know that there’s no evidence that people would ever want to use that thing?

Leo Laporte Did you write that? I think you wrote that. John C. Dvorak [ph] copping to the fact that in like in 1942, he said nobody will ever need a mouse.

John C. Dvorak I never said that. I said that there is no evidence.

Leo Laporte There’s no evidence. That’s a pretty – that’s a little bit of a cop-out.

Kirk Harnack [ph] It was accurate at the time I said it.

John C. Dvorak That’s what I said because it was a cop-out when I wrote it. I wasn’t going to be – I wasn’t sure, I just said there was no evidence.

Leo Laporte Om, when did you start covering technology? How long has it been?

Om Malik Oh a long time. I guess since ’91, ’92.

Leo Laporte So, me too. Although well, I started writing for Byte and InfoWorld in ’78 and was just – I was a DJ/ technology journalist till ’91 when John rescued me.

John C. Dvorak I saved him4.

Leo Laporte He saved me from a fate worse than death.

John C. Dvorak In combination with Rush Limbaugh.

Leo Laporte I lost my job because Rush got my mid-day gig.

John C. Dvorak Still the funniest thing ever.

Leo Laporte Me and 550 other mid-day talk show hosts out of work. There’s this guy named Rush and this is when Rush was like “tiddle-up tiddle-up tiddle-up; listen up you people, we’ve got a news bulletin – nuts, from the Nazis.” He was really – he was really a showman. And I am thinking what the hell this – this is what…

John C. Dvorak How did I get bumped by this guy?

Leo Laporte This is where radio is going? Oh man. You know what, the day they told me that, I went out and I chopped a quarter wood.

John C. Dvorak You were that irked?

Leo Laporte I just didn’t know what to do. I was like – what have I chosen. I mean, I am 33 or something and I have chosen the wrong profession clearly. But that was – little did I know what a break that was. In fact I want to do, I’m going to do

John C. Dvorak You could still be a local yokle…

Leo Laporte Exactly.

John C. Dvorak …doing a crappy little show.

Leo Laporte Exactly. I would be oh, now the author of the latest Chicken Soup for the Soul is with us today, I mean, that’s what I was doing. No wonder there were no ratings.

John C. Dvorak The show was a – and it was a classic because I still hear one of those – that type of show once in a while.

Leo Laporte Nobody does it anymore. Yes.

John C. Dvorak Well, there are still a few.

Leo Laporte They used to call it – Kirk will know this, full service radio.

Kirk Harnack Yeah, a song, the forecast, jumping jacks in the morning and then another song.

John C. Dvorak I don’t remember. Were you a combo man at the time?

Leo Laporte I was – well, vary. Sometimes combo, sometimes not. But I think towards the end – combo means you run your own board. And then….

John C. Dvorak Which you love to do apparently.

Leo Laporte It turns out I liked to do it.

John C. Dvorak Yes, obviously.

Leo Laporte But when you get to be a big time DJ you have a [ph] board op and then you just sit in a room with a microphone like you’re doing right now.

John C. Dvorak Yes.

Leo Laporte And somebody like me is pushing all these buttons.

John C. Dvorak Right.

Leo Laporte And it turns out l like the control.

Om Malik We could guess that.

Leo Laporte Now I have more buttons. Not only do I have board, I have a video I’ve got – I mean, I am doing all this stuff, I am typing into the chat. It’s really fun, it’s really fun. Anyway, so that was ’91 and they said – we’ll get to tech news in a little bit.

John C. Dvorak Now I was just saying.

Leo Laporte A little memory lane here. and they said we are going to – we don’t hate you. That was nice. Thank you. But we like Rush better. But we are going to – here’s what we are going to let you. Nine hours [ph] candy hour – nine hours Saturday and Sunday of talk shows, you’ll be the announcer. And then we’ll bring in the Carey Brothers to talk about home improvement, or Anthony Blue, Anthony Dias Blue to do wine and I said okay but can I do a computer show? Because this guy Dvorak and I used to do – you’d come on my talk show and it was great. Can I do a computer show? And they said nobody is going to listen to that. I said I know but you’re making me do nine hours, can one hour be computer. So they let me do a show with you and that was –

John C. Dvorak Oh, I didn’t know you had to talk them into it.

Leo Laporte Oh yes.

John C. Dvorak I thought they said Dvorak, absolutely.

Leo Laporte Oh yes. They said – well, look at – this is – this was maybe even ’90. This was DOS 3, Windows 3, DOS 2. It was like nobody wanted to know about computers. They still don’t, by the way.

John C. Dvorak We got a lot of calls.

Leo Laporte Still a niche. You’re right, we did. We always did. Anyway that’s how it started. So you and I, Om, probably went fulltime computers, technology about the same time.

Om Malik Yes, pretty much.

Leo Laporte Lot of changes.

Om Malik Yes, there have been good changes, I think that’s the great thing about our business is that you never get bored like everyday is just like you start afresh. It’s – you know, memories are great but it’s the future which is exciting and that’s what even keeps me going about this business is like the actual technology is evolving by the minute, like you have the new players. The storylines remain pretty much the same. The winners, the losers, the monopolies, the mavericks but the names just change, the characters change and that’s a great movie in a way of –

John C. Dvorak I think it’s boring.

Leo Laporte You think it’s boring?

John C. Dvorak I think that the people –

Leo Laporte You’ve just been doing it too long John.

John C. Dvorak No, no, I think the people that are in the business aren’t nearly as interesting as they used to be when you had the Chuck Peddles and you had…

Leo Laporte Yes, you are right.

John C. Dvorak George Morrow.

Leo Laporte Who was the WordStar guy?

John C. Dvorak And you had that Philippe Kahn,

Leo Laporte Oh he was a character.

John C. Dvorak You had Seymour Rubinstein.

Leo Laporte Seymour. Yes.

John C. Dvorak And there’s all these characters, Now you’ve got Steve Jobs and a bunch of guys who won’t talk because of the CEO and they’re worried sick that [indiscernible].

Leo Laporte Andy Grove was the last interesting CEO.

John C. Dvorak Right and these guys won’t say anything because they are afraid their shareholders are going to hear about it or the SEC is going to take –

Leo Laporte No, John, they got smart that’s all. The old ploy of plying them with bourbon and saying so what’s – what do you think of AMD? That just stopped working.

John C. Dvorak No I’m talking, the other thing is these guys aren’t interesting on the stage. They are boring, I mean, except for the two guys that are good are Steve Jobs is still entertaining but he doesn’t do anything now because of his health. And Larry Ellison has potential but he doesn’t want to. So we have a bunch of these CEOs that go out robotic like and they give their little spiel and are so dull that I don’t even go to these things anymore.

Om Malik Oh come on, Benioff is a lot fun.

John C. Dvorak Benioff is a lot of fun I agree.

Leo Laporte Marc Benioff.

John C. Dvorak He is the one guy. Okay you’ve got one.

Leo Laporte He’s with – Is he with

John C. Dvorak Yes, but he is from the Larry Ellison camp so he is like –


John C. Dvorak Pretty soon he’ll stop showing up.

Leo Laporte So you agree, Om this is –

Om Malik It is a very tame industry now. But again that doesn’t mean it will always remain tame, right. It’s just we don’t know who are the people who are showing up. The next generation could be funny. There’s a lot of interesting young people out there who are doing things and someday they’ll get to be a big company. I am not talking about people who are doing Twitter and Facebook but people below – under the radar so far now, so they are interesting. You know our Kevin Rose is an interesting fellow. You know, always fun.

Leo Laporte Part of the problem with that is John and I know him too well.

Om Malik Yes, I think that might – that’s true.

Leo Laporte We don’t know him from a distance, but he is interesting I agree.

John C. Dvorak Yes, Kevin has potential for being a celebrity personality. In fact he is – he gets a big audience.

Leo Laporte Zuckerberg, what about Zuckerberg? Couldn’t he be – he is boring.

John C. Dvorak He is the boringest guy in this world. What about – now, Rose, when was the last time he did a key note? Does he do them? Does he even give speeches?

Leo Laporte No, he doesn’t – he never gets the speeches. So is that one of the marks, the measures of a successful ….

John C. Dvorak The guy should be able to do some standup.

Leo Laporte It’s true, that’s really all they want. I finally stop speaking. I still do some speaking but a lot less.

John C. Dvorak Your speeches are great.

Leo Laporte Well I realized that all they want is to laugh.

John C. Dvorak Yes.

Leo Laporte I thought they wanted insight –

John C. Dvorak They are not looking of 24/7 laugh, they are not looking for wall to wall. They need – you need to get in about one every five minutes, you got to get a punch line in there.

Leo Laporte Do you think – I think it’s the opposite. I think maybe five insights and 20 laughs in an hour.

Om Malik That’s a good show.

John C. Dvorak That’s about right.

Leo Laporte That’s a good show.

John C. Dvorak That is a good show for a public speaker. For a comic it sucks.

Leo Laporte That’s why I gave up. Right, and so I need to get a – like a comedy writer to put the 20 jokes in.

John C. Dvorak There’s a bunch of guys who will do it for you.

Leo Laporte All right help me because I am going to October 10 – 10/10, I am going to Dubai for TEDx. So TED has franchises and Dubai has –

John C. Dvorak I don’t know about telling jokes in the Middle East.

Leo Laporte Oh, they are going to chop my head off on this one folks, a lady who walks in in a burkha. Did you hear in London they are making women swim in burkhas?

John C. Dvorak Swim in burkhas?

Leo Laporte Yeah, I don’t think that’s a good idea. Now that’s misogyny.

John C. Dvorak I hope they try to get rid of it.

Leo Laporte So I have 18 minutes, so I really don’t need as many jokes.

John C. Dvorak 18 minutes, have [ph] Marty Huygens do it.

Leo Laporte It’s a Ted talk, [ph] Marty Huygens could help me.

John C. Dvorak Yes.

Leo Laporte He is a comic.

John C. Dvorak He is on Skype, he can do a whole –

Leo Laporte All right. I am going to ask [ph] Marty to help me write some jokes. I am really looking forward to that TEDx Dubai if you get a chance, 10/10.

John C. Dvorak There’s a lot of joke writers around. You just have to get back into the clique.

Leo Laporte You used to do something very funny. You’d make videos with your Amiga, your video toaster.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, right, which is a precursor –

Leo Laporte To what I use. Yes, it’s a precursor. It’s actually the same thing. I don’t think they made a single change.

Kirk Harnack [ph] It has an operating system.

Leo Laporte It’s XP, [ph] it’s an Amiga. Om, do you do much public speaking? You do, don’t you?

Om Malik Not that much. I used to but not anymore.

Leo Laporte What happened to the Om Malik Show on Revision3, do you still do that? You had a heart attack.

Om Malik Yes, I kind of had a heart attack. So that pretty much – so I kind of scaled back on that. We are trying to bring it back but just I am a little bit of a perfectionist so we are working on that a little bit. So hopefully by the end of this summer we will be able to bring it back.

Leo Laporte We are going to get you to do TWiT a few more times Om. This is like public speaking because you get this chat room and there’s eight or 900 people, 997 people in the chat room,

John C. Dvorak Kibitzing.

Leo Laporte Kibitzing. I’ll give you an example, out of nowhere, Web577, Leo you’re ignorant of UK news. Did we mention anything about the UK here? I don’t know, I don’t know where that came from. All right thank you Web577. So that’s one thing you don’t get in an audience. They are relatively tame compared to that.

Big stories this week, I’m sure there are some. I have no idea. Did anything happens this week we are going to look back and see –

John C. Dvorak You’ve just been basically putting this machine together all week.

Leo Laporte Yes, I really haven’t had a whole lot of time.

John C. Dvorak Let’s see what we have on the blog.

Leo Laporte See what’s on the blog, anything big happen this week? I’m trying to think – FriendFeed, maybe Om has something to say about FriendFeed and Facebook. Who’s the – do you care about social media at all, Om? I know you are on Twitter.

Om Malik Oh, I do. I actually – it’s an interesting evolution of the web and why shouldn’t we – I think that [ph] everyone should be [ph] care enough for this thing. I think what we are seeing is the future of the media evolving, right in front of our eyes. I say media loosely. I’d say the future of information, and from that perspective, services like Facebook, like Twitter, like FriendFeed are interesting.

And I think the big change which might be going on in the web right now is that the information is being atomized, right. It is being – first we saw the rise of the blogs and singular blog posts and now we have seen – then came the YouTubes and photographs being put on Flicker and all those places. And now we are seeing a pattern amongst people of sharing links to these things with, let’s say, using or some other URL shorter.

And what you really are seeing is that the web is getting – or the information web is getting sliced into little components and the only way to aggregate it is through your social graph or recommendations from your friends and – colleagues and that – like sort of like what shows up on John’s blog is interesting enough for other people to read and go consume. And I think that’s a bit of a change which is happening. So, from that perspective, I am very keen on social media just more of a macro web perspective. Sorry, too many words.

Leo Laporte No, I like that. No, I think that’s exactly right.

John C. Dvorak There’s a story that I don’t want to forget to mention. One of the things if you’re looking for news item.

Leo Laporte I have a few.

John C. Dvorak Well, you know about Apple.

Leo Laporte That story is great. You want to hear how I…

John C. Dvorak The 999 thing.

Leo Laporte No, what’s that. I thought you’re going to talk about Google/Apple FCC.

John C. Dvorak No, no, I am talking about…

Leo Laporte What’s the 999 thing?

John C. Dvorak Well, Apple is going to have this meeting on September 9th.

Leo Laporte Now, is that official?

John C. Dvorak From where we can tell, yeah.

Leo Laporte Nobody has got an invite, yet, but supposedly…

John C. Dvorak They were shooting it in Marin – they were shooting the commercials they are going to bring out and probably it’s going to be at the show in the Marin Headlands…..

Leo Laporte It’s kind of the Beatles, right? because it number 9, number 9, number 9, number 9?

John C. Dvorak Yeah, number 9. So, they are going to do a Beatles thing, they are going to have the Beatles catalog, they are going to have a bunch of remap…

Leo Laporte Do you think they’ll have Ringo and Paul at this event because supposedly they will have an event at this 9/9/09?

John C. Dvorak It’s an interesting idea. I doubt it.

Leo Laporte Hey, Microsoft had Paul and Ringo at E3.

John C. Dvorak Well, Paul and Ringo...

Leo Laporte I think Paul and Ringo are available. I don’t think they are too busy. I think they…

John C. Dvorak They’ve got re-mastered albums and they got some of the albums…

Leo Laporte Well, 9/9/09 is when the rock band collection comes out.

John C. Dvorak Right, and also there’s going to be a new iPod design and one with…

Leo Laporte You think?

John C. Dvorak A Beatles iPod.

Leo Laporte We have been saying this on [ph] Mac Weelky this is the [ph] Merlin Mann rumour for the last two years; a yellow submarine iPod. Do you think it will happen?

John C. Dvorak I don’t know if it’s going to be yellow submarine but it might be…

Leo Laporte That would be good.

John C. Dvorak It’s going to be something like that.

Leo Laporte Will be good, 9/9/09. So, FCC letters have been released by Google, AT&T and Apple. Remember the FCC said to all three, so what’s the story? You rejected the Google voice application. And – I talked about this on the radio show – it’s like you have got teenagers here. So AT&T says, no, I didn’t do it. The FCC, did you tell me the truth, AT&T: did you tell Apple to reject the application? No, I didn’t do it. That was their response. We have nothing to do with it. Apple, did AT&T tell you anything? Apple’s in – Apple really is like a teenager. We didn’t reject it. We – they said it, literally, they said “we didn’t reject it.”

John C. Dvorak Yeah, yeah, that story- it’s hilarious.

Leo Laporte It’s still under study. They’re like the Eddie Haskell of computing. It’s like no, Mrs Cleaver, oh no Mrs Cleaver, we would never reject it, we are still studying that. And then Google, this is the weirdest part, redacted it, their answer. So, their answer was, yes, we know why Apple rejected it, redacted.

John C. Dvorak No, Google did that or was it AT&T?

Leo Laporte Google.

John C. Dvorak Oh, Google.

Leo Laporte So, Om, I know Steve Gilmore has a conspiracy theory about this but Om, do you have any thought about what the hell [ph] Apple explained in detail why they rejected it? Google says “redacted.”

Om Malik I think this is – I think, in many ways, this is a Google-inspired investigation. I don’t think they have – unless they reveal what really is the issue, they don’t really have a case so to speak. I mean it tears the Apple’s platform. Nobody really said on day one that they will allow a competitor to play in their house.

Leo Laporte So, Google’s a competitor?

Om Malik I mean they are making an OS, they are making phones, they are making an operating system, they have a browser. I mean they are a competitor. That’s the post I wrote about this. It’s a Google versus Apple – posturing going on and FCC’s just playing a little role in it and I think that’s what really it is. People just don’t want to admit that Google is as nefarious as any other monopoly in our time, whether it was Microsoft or AT&T before that or IBM. Google has come to that point where it is, don’t do evil is like oh, don’t – just try not to be caught.

Leo Laporte Don’t be too evil.

Om Malik Yeah, don’t get caught.

Leo Laporte Don’t get caught.

Om Malik So, I kind of don’t buy that. This is – okay. Apple, whether I like what Apple did? No, absolutely not, but I think Google is not above sin here as well. So, I think that’s what it is. And I think what you’re really seeing is like you know that documentary Planet Earth which has this beautiful scene of African elephant bulls fighting amongst each other. That’s what this thing – the whole thing reminds me of.

Leo Laporte And remember if African elephant bulls are fighting, you do not want to be the little native guy on the ground. Get the hell out of there.

Om Malik Or the cameraman also…

Leo Laporte Or the cameraman. Get the hell away. Use a telephoto lens. I think it’s interesting. Do you think Google was posturing – in a way it looked – Google probably knew, right? That Apple would say no. It’s to underscore the freedom, and by the way big announcement, Android’s not – anything you want in the Android story, it’s to underscore the freedom that Google is offering?

Om Malik Yeah.

John C. Dvorak I think it’s a good idea. I think it’s a good move. I think the Android phone is a clear winner long term.

Leo Laporte Really?

John C. Dvorak Oh, yeah. I think at some point it will actually overtake the iPhone.

Leo Laporte It has – it’s got a way to go.

John C. Dvorak Oh, yeah, no, I am not saying tomorrow. But look, it was the same thing with the Apple. This is just a [ph] fractal. Apple starts off with the Apple II. They really get pretty much grab market share. Took a while, IBM PC comes out. Apple still dominant company. They welcome them and then the next thing you know the PC is beating them because of the closed nature of Apple and then Apple, of course, does another a whole new platform and kind of owns it for a long time, the Macintosh and then all of a sudden Windows comes out and just essentially wipes them out overnight.

And this is just another replay of the Apple’s model. They milk it, they make a lot of money, they have high margins, they – it’s not like they are starving to death and at some point because it’s going to be easier for me to just do an app like somebody pointed out in the chat room, there’s something like 10,000 apps are being received a day with 40 people reviewing them. What difference – why should I even deal with it? Why don’t I just put the app up on my own website, and if you want to run it on the Android, just download it and run it. I don’t have – why should I have to go run through hoops to sell something?

Leo Laporte Well, Apple’s point, and maybe it’s a good point, is that if we do this, we will control it, then the consumer experience will be better because every [indiscernible].

John C. Dvorak It will be because Macintosh is a better machine…

Leo Laporte Isn’t that how you win, by better...?

John C. Dvorak Well, it doesn’t win – work with even – with the Macintosh is doing well, but it’s still second, way second like…

Leo Laporte It’s profitable though.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, I am not saying their whole scheme is not profitable…

Leo Laporte Well, that’s all they care about.

John C. Dvorak I’m just saying it’s not popular.

Om Malik I think John, I think you’re kind of overreaching a little bit here because Apple never said that they wanted to control all the market, right? They will continue to make a lot of money with iPhone and they – and this is not like the computer business; this is more of a phone economy. So, they can sell like 40, 50, 60, 70 million phones a year and make a ton of money and on their own existing platform, but they don’t necessarily need to sell – all the phones in the planet, nobody does, right? And from that perspective, I think their strategy is okay where they’re going with it. I think where they are messing up is that they have too much control on the app store. I think they need to kind of loosen up on that. Apart from that…

John C. Dvorak I don’t think they are going to do it. I don’t think they are going to do it. I am not saying it’s a bad strategy. I am just saying that in the long haul, the Android phone will win in terms of market share.

Om Malik Right but Android phone makes no money for anyone except Google.

Leo Laporte Google doesn’t need to make money. In fact, Android probably doesn’t make money for Google. Google is all about [ph] eyeballs.

Om Malik They basically want people to use the search inside.

Leo Laporte Yeah, [ph] it’s eyeballs

Om Malik Again Google is not a proven thing, right? It’s not – I mean it’s a 10-year-old company and it still hasn’t proven a secondary revenue line apart from advertising. So, it’s very easy to kind of be in love with them but they still have to show that they actually got ability to make revenue from anything above and beyond advertizing. So that’s my view on those guys.

Kirk Harnack Yeah, okay.

Leo Laporte Okay. And they’re only evil to the extent that they have to be. You made us do it, the devil made us do it.

Om Malik No, all monopolies actually enter that point when they become…

John C. Dvorak They’re not a monopoly yet.

Leo Laporte Google is a monopoly, 60% of search.

Om Malik Yes, 65% of the search and growing still and so you…

Leo Laporte What is your alternative, Bing? Bing is the Apple of search.

John C. Dvorak Bing, Bing, I love Bing.

Leo Laporte What is your alternative, I don’t know. I think Google – in fact it always surprises me when I see 65%. I think, well who are these other 35%?

Om Malik What are they thinking?

Leo Laporte Who are these morons? What are they using? AOL search? What are they using? They are using Bing, I guess.

John C. Dvorak Yeah.

Leo Laporte I don’t understand why.

Om Malik I think the…

John C. Dvorak They are using Yahoo! A lot of people are die-hard Yahoo! –

Leo Laporte Well then they are using Bing now.

John C. Dvorak Well, they are using Bing right.

Leo Laporte Yeah, right, yeah…unfortunately. Yeah.

John C. Dvorak You know Yahoo! has an out on that.

Leo Laporte Oh do they?

John C. Dvorak They still have. They have kept their deal in China with Baidu and they, I think, are still considering to develop the search engine in China.

Leo Laporte Oh that’s smart.

John C. Dvorak And so they can like…

Leo Laporte I am glad to hear that.

John C. Dvorak If the deal falls apart, they can come back and say well let’s just go back, and just flip a switch and bingo [ph] they’re back.

Leo Laporte To do any less than continue to develop in some skunkworks would be really stupid.

John C. Dvorak I think that another thing that they should do which I don’t understand why they haven’t done this is that they should have like immediate when they did the deal with Microsoft done a secondary deal with one of the other search engine companies and handed over their programmers and the search code to like one of these other – like what’s the crazy one, Clueless or whatever the name of it is.

Leo Laporte Clueless, I like that. “I use Clueless search.” I don’t think that’s the name – it could be.

John C. Dvorak But then continue developing it so if the Apple deal…

Leo Laporte Oh Cuil, Cuil you’re talking about. C-u-i-l.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, Cuil.

Leo Laporte Clueless is actually –

John C. Dvorak So Cuil, give it to Cuil; let them work with it and then –

Leo Laporte Is that – wait a minute, I have to try because that can’t still be around.

John C. Dvorak Oh yeah, actually it looks – it’s improved. It’s actually…

Leo Laporte But who knew?

John C. Dvorak Well, who knew? They did – they over promoted themselves at the beginning.

Leo Laporte Over promoted and underperformed.

John C. Dvorak Underperformed. That’s a bad thing.

Leo Laporte That’s always the wrong way to go.

John C. Dvorak But that would be a good thing to do. They could just give it to them and then if the thing falls apart they could just –

Leo Laporte What do you use? Do you use your name for a test search? I need a test search for Cuil.

John C. Dvorak Yeah. I use my name all the time.

Leo Laporte Because you know what the results are supposed to be.

John C. Dvorak Yeah I know what should be on there. Like if I type in John C. Dvorak and the Dvorak keyboard comes up as number one I know the search engine sucks.

Leo Laporte That’s a bad idea, yeah. What do you – do you, Om, have a tool, you know, a kind of canonical search?

Om Malik I use just Google. I don’t bother [ph] with that type –

Leo Laporte But what do you type ¬– if you want to test Cuil, would you just type Om Malik?

Om Malik Yeah or I’d use GigaOm.

Leo Laporte That’s probably – yeah because we all know what it’s supposed to be, right.

Om Malik Yeah.

Kirk Harnack I typed in Kirk Harnack, I got all my stuff.

Leo Laporte On Cuil?

Kirk Harnack Yeah, on Cuil.

Om Malik I think – you want to do a good search?

Kirk Harnack Yeah.

Om Malik Type in white shirt.

Leo Laporte White – two words, white shirt?

Om Malik White shirt, yeah just type that.

John C. Dvorak One word or two.

Om Malik Two words.

Leo Laporte So, okay. So I get Just White Shirts Web Store. The White Shirt New York Social Diary, Quick and Easy Stain Removal, Keep Your White Shirts White and Bright, Mrs. Stewart's Bluing.

Kirk Harnack But look at the map to your right, it’s just off your screen, Leo.

Leo Laporte Oh, I get a map of White Shirt, Nebraska? Where is that?

Kirk Harnack And India is there, why?

Leo Laporte Why is India there?

Om Malik I have no idea.

John C. Dvorak I thought it was a trick.

Leo Laporte You did that. No, so did you know that would be the result?

Om Malik No, I just think you compare it with Google and you will see the results in Google. So you can always tell which results make more sense…

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Om Malik Compared Bing with a, you know, just a random phrase. I mean you could type in Range Rover for example and you will get, see if you get enough details about it.

Leo Laporte Here it is. The reason you get India is because you get the Maldives, a woman in a sarong, a man in a long-sleeved white shirt.

John C. Dvorak Google’s results are more interesting, you get 10 Fall Fashion Classics You Need to Own: White Shirt.

Leo Laporte I got to do Bing because Bing should give me some shopping, right?

John C. Dvorak They have the Beast or Bobby Deluxe White Shirt, review at

Leo Laporte White shirt’s good, you know what Om; this is a really interesting result.

John C. Dvorak And the Great White Shirt – I just stumbled onto this. The Great White Shirt is on Fashion Editor, Stacy Wallace-Albert.

Om Malik So if you are looking for what is a white shirt, you will never figure it out on any of these search engines.

Leo Laporte Oh; so if – what you were doing is trying to understand a phrase.

Om Malik Or like, if you want to buy one, you can’t figure that one out. You want some practical tips about what is a great white shirt, you can’t find it on any of these.

John C. Dvorak I agree, I mean I disagree; with the Google one you get a lot of good answers that I think would tell you exactly what a white shirt is.

Leo Laporte Let’s see Bing. I’ve got related search is women’s white shirts, just white shirts, men’s white shirts, white blouse, Clorox bleach. These are ad results, Clorox bleach, white blouses at the Loft –

Om Malik So they must be making some money.

Kirk Harnack Type white shirt into Wolfram Alpha and it “doesn’t know what to do with your input”.

Leo Laporte Wolfram Alpha! It says 14 to the 17th power. It doesn’t know what to…

John C. Dvorak You put in 10, you put a number in there, it will give something.

Kirk Harnack Ten white shirts.

Leo Laporte I think Bing did a deal, didn’t they?

Om Malik Pretty decent job?

Leo Laporte Bing is actually getting the best results here.

Om Malik Yeah, there you go.

John C. Dvorak Let’s get back to the news.

Leo Laporte No; that’s news!

John C. Dvorak That Bing got good results? Stop the presses!

Leo Laporte Stop the presses! That’s huge!

Kirk Harnack Wolfram Alpha asked if I mean White Shirley.

Leo Laporte White Shirley and what does it say to White Shirley? Now that I am interested in.

Kirk Harnack It’s names. The name White and the name Shirley.

Leo Laporte I see.

John C. Dvorak Shirley White.

Leo Laporte And it will tell you 32% of the population is named Shirley White. Let’s take a break. We are going to come back and talk more about the news like there is some to talk about. I will give you all five minutes to find a news story.

John C. Dvorak Well, have this chat room chime in with any suggestions.

Leo Laporte Chat room news stories. I want to hear some. Meanwhile ladies and gentlemen, GoToMeeting from Citrix. This is the software that we are using now at TWiT to collaborate, we use it on some of our shows for screen shots. It’s the better way to meet with clients, with colleagues to sell, to collaborate, to train. I love it and I want you to try it free for 30 days. Citrix is just a great company. I mean they know how to do this stuff and they have created simply the best online meeting software.

You know what’s great is that when we first started talking about this a couple of years ago, I think 2004, a lot of people were using a lot of other solutions. Go ahead John, please. Be my guest. John just – if we didn’t have commercials, we would have had to invent them just for John, just so he could get up, wander. He doesn’t have any cooking going on, he just wants to take off.

GoToMeeting is kind of the best of the breed as we have been doing these commercials over the last five years, I see more and more and more people using GoToMeeting and now I very rarely see anything else. Why? Because it’s the best. Replace that online conference or that on the phone conference call with an online meeting, it’s good as meeting in person. You start your meetings with one click; everyone sees your computer desktop on their computer screens so they see your PowerPoint. When we – when Kirk was showing us what he was going to do with the Axia system. Now Kirk you can tell the truth; did you do that because you knew I loved GoToMeeting or do you use GoToMeeting?

Kirk Harnack No, I use it.

Leo Laporte You use it anyway.

Kirk Harnack Absolutely, I pay for it every month.

Leo Laporte It’s well worth it.

Kirk Harnack Yup.

Leo Laporte You were able to show us the PowerPoint and everything you were going to do, yeah diagrams, we could collaborate, we could say what about this and circle it. It’s just amazing. I want you to try it free, 30 days. Free trial, go to In fact, I think we taped and broadcasted that GoToMeeting that we did. We have it somewhere else. I will see if I can bring it out because it’s – actually it’s kind of fun to combine that which was the planning stage with what you have done and since then it’s just really neat. We thank them so much for their support of This WEEK in TECH. Nice people with a great product. Om, what’s on – what’s hot on your agenda these days? What are you paying a lot of attention to?

Om Malik A lot of things. I think my big focus is the disaggregation of the web. I have written a lot about it and I am also trying to figure out what’s the – there is a lot of – there is a big trend for startups to develop their products for other people’s platforms without taking into account what happens when those platform owners start mucking around?

Leo Laporte We’ll start with FriendFeed but Twitter is the one that leaps to mind, right?

Om Malik So do you have Facebook and Twitter, right. So last week a couple of companies shut down, it’s just like one was a little startup called Lookery and they kind of blamed Facebook on – for their troubles.

Leo Laporte Wait a minute, now Lookery was going to – was an online ad play, right? And they – and you had a little – in fact I have Lookery code in my page. So I guess I will take it out now.

Om Malik Yeah.

Leo Laporte It was little JavaScript. It’s kind of like Google Analytics and then they would help sell it. I never got any ads from them. How could they blame Facebook for that?

Om Malik Because they were initially for the Facebook platform and then Facebook changed how the apps would interact with their news feed and it shift – got shifted from page one to page two and it’s actually thrown the whole Facebook ecosystem for – or app ecosystem for a loop. And that’s I think a big elephant in the room; people don’t want to talk about in the valley. The same thing is going to happen, all the troubles we are having with the iPhone platform or the problems we are going to eventually end up having with the Twitter platform, who the hell knows what’s going to happen. But these – a lot of the excitement in Silicon Valley is around these platforms which are owned by corporations right. It doesn’t matter whether they are big or small. So I am a little concerned about that, so that is definitely occupying a lot of my time right now thinking about that and covering that.

The other thing is I am tracking, you know what FCC is really doing about the broadband stimulus and how we get more and more broadband to more and more Americans, and actually higher and higher speeds and I think this is like one of my pet projects right now. So all of us are old enough to kind of have experienced the low bandwidth days and I’m sure you remember when we went from 1,200 bauds to 9,600 bauds. And then from 9,600 bauds we went to 56,000 bauds in dial-up and then we went to DSL. I think we are experiencing a similar 5X jump in bandwidth which is coming our way. We are going to like – more and more people can access above 25 megabits per second to their house. They have to pay a lot of money, but you can access that. And you know, soon maybe in 12 to 18 months we are going to see the bandwidth prices come down and more – higher speeds become more affordable and when that happens, I think the web becomes even more interesting.

So my theory is that every time we have a 5X gain in bandwidth we have a lot of interesting things happen. So let me explain, so when we went from dial-up to DSL/early cable modem we got ourselves Napster. And then we went from, remember 384, and then we went to like 1.5 to 3 megabits we got Skype, we got YouTube, we got WordPress, we got Facebook, we got a lot of interesting things. So…

Leo Laporte We got TWiT TV.

Om Malik We got TWiT TV and now you have, your TWiT is as big as TechTV, I mean it’s…

Leo Laporte Absolutely, yeah.

Om Malik Right, so –

John C. Dvorak It’s actually bigger.

Om Malik ¬– and actually better and bigger than them and so – and with more bandwidth, more and more interesting things will happen.

John C. Dvorak So what are predicting?

Om Malik My prediction is that we, next 12 to 18 months a whole new different class of applications are going to emerge.

John C. Dvorak Specifically.

Om Malik You know…

Leo Laporte How about Google Wave, is that, no; that doesn’t need that kind of bandwidth. It’s got to be, it’s got to be rich, it’s got to be rich bandwidth, what would you need, high def?

John C. Dvorak I mean you could say – you can make this kind of analogy with hard discs; as they got bigger all kinds of different new things that they were used for.

Leo Laporte No, it’s interesting.

John C. Dvorak But at some point the hard discs now are going into terabyte after terabyte and nothing new is coming out. Is it possible that all these apps that…

Leo Laporte The cutoff point was one point – I think you could make a point that cutoff point was 1.5 megabits. That enabled all you need.

John C. Dvorak And I think…

Leo Laporte 64 kilobytes is all anyone needs.

Om Malik Did you work for AT&T before Leo?

Leo Laporte Now let’s see, so all right. So let’s say what do you think the default to be now? Are we going into the 5 megabit range, the 10 megabit range?

Om Malik Well, I think it is by 2011, 2012 you will expect at least 25 to 40 megabits.

Leo Laporte Oh! Wow. Okay, so what does the world look like when you have 25 megabits?

Om Malik See, that’s what I have started to think about. I don’t really know…

Leo Laporte Hey, you know what I would think about? Is not an asymmetric 25 megabits but what if we get upload bandwidths higher?

Om Malik You are right, right. That is a big, big issue. I think more and more people have started to talk about the upstream bandwidth.

Leo Laporte That’s where people are gated right now; with 128 kilobits you can’t do anything.

John C. Dvorak I [ph] got this live, going up.

Leo Laporte So what if people have 5; then all of a sudden anybody can do what I am doing, anybody can be a broadcaster. That’s interesting.

John C. Dvorak Anybody could be a broadcaster now, they just have to pay more for their bandwidth and they get 5.

Leo Laporte Well if that becomes ubiquitous, look what I think, I think you are right but I am – just to speculat here, Om, on this. I think – I have always thought that we are about to see a huge creative eruption, a kind of a renaissance. Well, I am waiting for it but I think you’re starting to see it on YouTube; 100,000 videos a day on YouTube.

John C. Dvorak Junk, junk.

Leo Laporte That’s a very subjective…

John C. Dvorak No, it’s not, it’s not subjective at all; it’s oubjective.

Leo Laporte They are objectively junk.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, I would say 99%...

Leo Laporte You think [ph] Fred Flinglehoffer is junk but…

John C. Dvorak Absolutely.

Leo Laporte A 14-year-old doesn’t.

John C. Dvorak Well, they are amused at the moment.

Leo Laporte They are amused to the tune of 30 million downloads.

John C. Dvorak Well, what good is it doing them? The point is that most of the stuff is crap.

Leo Laporte Al right…

John C. Dvorak Besides your show, even with podcasting most of it is garbage.

Leo Laporte Most of it is garbage. That brings up the…

John C. Dvorak So now all this…

Leo Laporte 80/20 rule, the 80/20 rule.

John C. Dvorak …increased bandwidth just makes even more garbage.

Leo Laporte No, but –

John C. Dvorak So we’re just inundated, we’re going to be inundated with crap. And I mean, to encourage this – I think we should go back to the modem.

Leo Laporte I think you’re going to see a creative upwelling and you are right, 90% will be crap but 10% of a lot is more than 10% of a little. And I think you’re going to see a lot more great stuff and you are going to get those people.

John C. Dvorak You are the optimist in the room.

Leo Laporte I always have been.

Kirk Harnack Leo, here’s an analogy for you, back in the day when people had big Hi-Fi systems and appreciated fine quality music…

Leo Laporte Which they don’t anymore.

John C. Dvorak And now we have moved on; deteriorated.

Kirk Harnack And now we have moved to the iPod where my daughter has her cell phone in the back seat of the car, she is playing the latest [ph] Fergie song.

Leo Laporte She has no idea; she thinks it sounds great.

Kirk Harnack And I said “that sounds terrible Madeline, where did you get that?” “Oh I held my cell phone up to my friend’s cell phone and recorded it.” “Madeline, that sounds terrible!”

Leo Laporte But wait a minute now…

Kirk Harnack Well, but now – so…

Leo Laporte Kids have always done that; the transistor radio when you and I were little.

Kirk Harnack You are right, I held my cassette player up to the radio [ph] and the phonograph.

Leo Laporte It was pretty crappy. Beach Boys…

John C. Dvorak Yeah, but still.

Kirk Harnack But the expectation for audio quality is much lower now than it used to be among the majority of people.

Leo Laporte I agree.

Kirk Harnack Well, so what’s the expectation of quality of content as it becomes easier to produce for the majority of people?

Leo Laporte Maybe the crap that we think is crap today will be seen as good.

Kirk Harnack Masterpieces.

Leo Laporte And that’s scary. May be the Taj Mahal of the future is being built out of Popsicle sticks right now.

Kirk Harnack And in ten years I remember back when TWiT was on the air and it was good show.

Leo Laporte I get that already. We jump the shark every week. Every week; I have never seen a show jump the shark more often. So, Om what are you thinking increased bandwidth might lead to?

Om Malik I think interesting applications, I think the gaming shifts into the browser because of that. I think that more upstream bandwidth means we will be able to do more and more interesting things, I am sure you have seen…

John C. Dvorak Like what?

Leo Laporte Virtual reality baby.

Om Malik [ph] No, for starters being able to access your information; your information which is stored on your devices over the net rather than your information stored in somebody else’s browser.

Leo Laporte It’s cloud computing you’re talking about.

John C. Dvorak I’ve got my information stored on my own machine, my own 10 terabyte drive. What’s wrong with that?

Om Malik But in order to access that you still do need a big network, right John, you can’t really get it over a puny 128 kilobit upstream line. So you get more bandwidth that way. I think there is a whole new class of applications which are going to come and, I mean if I could actually predict which is the right application – wouldn’t I be building it right now rather than talking about it?

John C. Dvorak Yeah, you would be.

Om Malik Exactly. So it is – we are in that big shift period, like think about it here; you know, go back. Like every few years we have a 5X jump in the bandwidth and when that happens a lot of interesting things start to happen from the application standpoint.

Leo Laporte Ken Shepardson says 3D LOLcats; that’s the next big –

Om Malik Oh, that would be awesome, that would be awesome.

Kirk Harnack Om, do you think your prediction in bandwidth increase is applicable to third world countries? I deal a lot with people in Africa and some in the hinterlands of India and all over the place where they still have dial-up sort of speeds even on their “high bandwidth connections.”

Leo Laporte And thank goodness, because I have had enough Nigerian email scams to last a lifetime.

Om Malik Well, I think more and more people whether it’s in India or in Africa they are going on the net using wireless devices and so even in the wireless if you come to think of it we are seeing a big jump in bandwidth on the wireless end of things. So in India for instance, at least three of the five major telco’s are rolling out WiMAX networks in rural India. So that is also going to cause some kind of behavior change.

It is also going to cause people to use their handheld devices, I don’t call them phones because they will also be looking for some lower cost iPhone-type devices to get – to access the internet. And I think there is, there is a lot of interesting things which can happen because as the bandwidth goes up, people’s behavior changes and through that behavior change you get interesting applications. Google is a result of a behavior change. Google changed – is why we use Google, is because it’s easy to use Google because we are always on the web and we don’t have to kind of – we can – we don’t find anything we’ll search for it again using some different kind of a phrase. And I think that’s one kind of a behavior change which happened with the increase in bandwidth. And you know…

John C. Dvorak I don’t think Google resulted in any bandwidth increase. It’s popularity – it’s a better product.

Om Malik No, but – it’s a better product which you can use more and more often because you are more and more connected; that’s why it’s become popular.

Kirk Harnack So, you’re referring not just to higher speeds but also more places to be connected.

Om Malik Exactly.

Leo Laporte But ubiquity is as important if not more important than speed.

Om Malik Exactly. You can have high speed networks in your house; that really doesn’t mean more people connected to the net at higher speeds. So even on the wireless if you look at it we are going from about 300 kilobits right now on a like a low-end 3G connection to like a 4G LTE connection which will give you between 3 to 5 megabits to your handset. That’s a big jump, and even ion the third-world countries where they are just rolling out wireless networks you are seeing the big jump happen.

I mean the application wise I think, you know, I’m sure once people have that kind of bandwidth, within six to eight months they’ll start to figure out how to build things to consume that bandwidth. You know it’s pretty much like the processor and the operating system; the more powerful the processor Intel made, Microsoft figured out a way to use it up, right. And then Intel did another one and you know so you had the next generation of Windows come out and that’s how the bandwidth is the new processor in my opinion and applications just come as a result of that.

Leo Laporte The network is the computer.

Kirk Harnack You know on about three-fourths the way down the page; rollout to Wi-Fi fleet wide in first quarter of 2010 on Southwest Airlines.

Leo Laporte Yes, that’s interesting.

Kirk Harnack And up to 30 megabits to each plane.

Leo Laporte What?

Kirk Harnack That’s amazing. By satellite, I’m trying to figure that one out.

Leo Laporte And you still – but you still don’t get a reserved seat. So I’m still not flying them. So…

John C. Dvorak You don’t fly Southwest?

Kirk Harnack That means you get to choose your seat.

Leo Laporte No, I try not to fly Southwest. That’s where Virgin America is just going to eat Southwest alive because you get a – you still get the online bandwidth, but you also get a reserved seat.

Kirk Harnack Leo, that’s interesting because I fly Southwest because I get to pick my own seat.

Leo Laporte You prefer that?

Kirk Harnack Absolutely.

Leo Laporte But you are smart enough to be in the group zero that’s –

John C. Dvorak No, it’s because you go online and you get your boarding pass…

Leo Laporte Right, right, it’s group zero.

Kirk Harnack Yes, and all the people with screaming babies get to sit in the back.

Leo Laporte Because they are too stupid to get online.

Kirk Harnack Yes.

Leo Laporte That advantage is not going to last you very long, I’m sorry to say. But I’m too forgetful to get online, so I’m at the back with the seats with the crazy screaming babies.

Kirk Harnack Yes, Southwest does need to add to the website; a reminder –

John C. Dvorak Where is the service, where is the website you can go on and say I’m going to be on this flight, get me my boarding pass [ph] and mail it out to me

Leo Laporte Oh, that’s a good service.

Kirk Harnack Yes.

John C. Dvorak [ph] I’m waiting.

Kirk Harnack But Southwest doesn’t charge you to change your flights. Leo, my trip here I’ve changed flights three times with Southwest. Cost: zero.

Leo Laporte Well, see now that –

John C. Dvorak That’s because you are at the high – you have to pay top dollar.

Kirk Harnack No, no, the cheapest ticket.

John C. Dvorak No, come on.

Kirk Harnack Well, if the fare goes up, you pay the fare difference, but there is no hundred dollar charge as a service charge to change your flight.

Leo Laporte That’s nice because United charges you.

Kirk Harnack And if you try flying international you pay a $200 service charge a lot of times.

Leo Laporte Yes, that’s right.

John C. Dvorak So, let’s talk about since people keep saying in the chat room that I’m being mean to Om.

Leo Laporte You are not being mean to Om.

John C. Dvorak That’s what he said, this guy in the chat room, said I was being mean and rude.

Leo Laporte Om, has John been mean to you?

Om Malik No.

John C. Dvorak So, let’s talk about the Kundra thing you wrote.

Leo Laporte Vivek Kundra.

Om Malik Yes.

Leo Laporte Hold on. Hold your water on that. And I do want to get back to what you were talking about with people building on unstable platforms because I think that’s kind of – you’ve raised a really interesting question there that’s become very timely. Before we do that I do want to mention our friends at Squarespace, go ahead John. Just walk right in front of the camera, Thank you.

John C. Dvorak You [ph] used to have the camera up a little bit so I could…

Leo Laporte You could squat under, no actually I tell everybody – just go right ahead, this isn’t really – nobody is watching anyway. It’s an audio podcast. I love it. There is – all the seats are now empty in the studio. It’s just you and me Om. You can get up.

Om Malik Oh, there you go. [ph]

Leo Laporte You can go somewhere if you want. Look at that, nobody is here.

Om Malik I’ll switch to a different seat. My batteries were running down on my…

Leo Laporte There you go. There you go.

Om Malik On my MacBook Pro, poor guy [ph].

Leo Laporte We’ve worn him out. I just want to talk briefly about Squarespace and then we will get to – there’s – you know, it turns out for us, sometimes the shows that are the most interesting are the ones with the least news that we can talk about issues. But I do want to mention Squarespace for those of you looking to set up a website. What do you use Om, for your provider? Now, here is a – this is a good question.

Om Malik I use

Leo Laporte Really?

Om Malik Yes.

Leo Laporte For that whole big… talk about building on a platform that may go away at any time!

Om Malik Yes.

Leo Laporte You don’t serve – you don’t host your own stuff?

Om Malik No, but you know, it’s an open platform so I can get my information off whenever I want.

Leo Laporte That’s true.

Om Malik It takes a minute; literally it’s just a minute process, so.

Leo Laporte So the whole GigaOm network is built on a free system?

Om Malik We pay for it, like, it’s a paid service…

Leo Laporte Oh, they have business – they have business class.

Om Malik Yes, there is a business class service and they call it VIP hosting; we use that and I use Mosso. For some of our non-critical stuff, we use Mosso for now. So those are two services.

Leo Laporte I’m going to work on you, Om. I’m going to move you over, I’m going to get you moved over to Squarespace. Have you looked at it ever?

Om Malik I have. I know the guy, I actually, you know, wrote about him back in the day.

Leo Laporte Anthony and Dane.

Om Malik Yes.

Leo Laporte They are great people, great – young guys who had a better idea. They are kind of like Matt Mullenweg [ph], look, I love Matt too, but Squarespace is about – not just a blog but about creating a website based on a Java machine, a virtual engine so that, as bandwidth requirements go up they just flip a switch, more servers come online, it’s all distributed across all the servers so they are very responsive. Design is unbelievable, I mean they’ve got great templates to start with but then you just drag and drop, lots of Ajax, you can create your own design about as easily – you don’t have to be a designer, you don’t have to be a programmer; boom.

And yet if you are programmer; full access to CSS templates, you could embed JavaScript, you really have very – a complete flexible situation and I love the idea that you can import and export right away from WordPress, from TypePad, from Blogger, they just – and export right back out so just, as you say you are never trapped inside it.

I want – if are looking to start up a system whether it’s a multi-blog system like Om’s doing or a single page for yourself, a photo blog, I mean, a forum, I want you to try it free; These are smart guys who’ve created, I think, created the next generation platform for websites. Incredible. Google Maps integration, social networking integration and the stuff that they are rolling out, you know, every day something new, really keeps it up to date. Go to, try it free, no credit card needed and if you use the coupon code twit you’ll get 10% off when you sign up.

Squarespace is the future of the web.

So, Om I like this when you are talking about building on a platform you know what... What’s this John?

John C. Dvorak I don’t know, I just found it on the table.

Leo Laporte John found a Zephyr and he is taking it home, I think that’s over Kirk’s dead body.

Kirk Harnack That’s the new IP version of your ISDN codec.

John C. Dvorak Really?

Kirk Harnack That works over IP.

Leo Laporte You know what’s cool about that John, is that as you may or may not know it’s getting harder and harder to get an ISDN line, phone companies don’t want to do ISDN lines.

John C. Dvorak I know.

Kirk Harnack The other day Leo you looked at my Squarespace beginning website where…

Leo Laporte Oh, are you doing Squarespace. Oh good.

Kirk Harnack Where I misspelled podcast, you pointed out it says pocast.

Leo Laporte Pocasts. That’s right; you’re using Squarespace for your podcast.

Kirk Harnack I just now fixed it. Well, I don’t have a podcast yet. It’s coming.

John C. Dvorak You said you are from Kentucky right?

Leo Laporte Pocast, that’s what I said, it should be –

Kirk Harnack Yes, Nashville.

John C. Dvorak Nashville, Tennessee.

Leo Laporte You got a po boy?

John C. Dvorak Yes. Pocasts.

Leo Laporte Pocast, we got a pocast here, what is it, we got a good Kentucky burger and pocast. [ph] No, I think pocast is good. So you like Squarespace; you have been happy with that?

Kirk Harnack Absolutely.

Leo Laporte It’s really neat.

Kirk Harnack I’m just playing with it, there is so much to learn. I don’t know.

Leo Laporte Yes.

John C. Dvorak So, not to interrupt the news thing but talking about this ISDN box, are they going to – since they can’t get ISDN anymore or it’s getting more difficult…

Leo Laporte IP, public network.

John C. Dvorak Are the radio stations going to be hooked up properly so you can use just a straight IP into them? Well, for remote broadcasting?

Kirk Harnack There’s two different kinds of IP codecs out in the broadcast market now. There’s kind of dumb ones that require router set up and you got to underutilize the bandwidth or overspecify the bandwidth And then there is this one – and Telos makes the dumb ones and a lot of other companies do too. This is a smart one, the smart IP that it works kind of like Skype; it gives you a buddy list.

And so we have a rendezvous server that keeps track of where the studios are that you are supposed to connect to, and so you just highlight the name of the studio.

John C. Dvorak Does the studio have to have a Telos in it or…?

Kirk Harnack They got to have the same one, yes.

John C. Dvorak How many studios, give me a number?

Leo Laporte This is new.

Kirk Harnack I think we have probably 400 of them so far.

Leo Laporte You know where – they are starting to use it in recording studios because you want to do a multi-track recording and the musicians are all over the place…

Kirk Harnack Yes.

Leo Laporte And they are not going to have ISDN lines, let’s face it, so the more…

John C. Dvorak They used to, but not anymore.

Leo Laporte They used to but not anymore. So more and more you are seeing studio – recording studios use this kind of thing.

John C. Dvorak As – they do virtual recordings?

Leo Laporte Yes. The musicians are in different states.

John C. Dvorak And putting headphones on and they jam?

Leo Laporte Yes. It’s remarkable – there is even a web based way to do this.

John C. Dvorak What about the latency?

Kirk Harnack That can be a problem. One way to solve that is to just get with the other guys over the web but make a local recording and then FTP or send in the local – the local high quality recording.

Leo Laporte [Ph] You could do double ended recording. But if you – we’ve actually played with a lot of different ways to doing this. Steve Gibson was writing a ring recorder that would send – so you could drop packets, what you are listening to you could drop packets, but the ring recorder waits until – and reassembles it once that packet comes in and has some redundancy so that even if you drop a packet you eventually get a perfect recording; it may not be in real time, but you can have a real time kind of imperfect audition channel. I don’t know if you – you guys don’t do that though Kirk. Do you?

Kirk Harnack No, but that’s pretty cool what Steve’s doing, we ought to talk to him.

Leo Laporte Yeah, it’s a neat idea.

Kirk Harnack Yeah.

Leo Laporte So let’s talk about building on platforms. You know, one of the things – we’ve talked about this Om, on a couple of times on this Week in Google is the idea, it seems to be in the last couple of weeks, and it seems to be with the realization that a lot of these platforms, not just for applications, but even for individuals that we’re building on, are shaky with the FriendFeed sale to Facebook, Twitter’s multiple failwhales. Facebook, who knows what they are doing? People are starting to say maybe I should be doing my blog again. There is this kind of return to sanity almost. I blog less. I noticed a lot of people blog less because we were micro-blogging but we started to realize we’re pumping all this equity into somebody out there that doesn’t have – we have no share in. Do you see that?

Om Malik I think that’s – yeah, I agree with you on that. I think people should listen to Dave Winer [ph] more often, I have to be really honest.

Leo Laporte Dave’s the leader on this one, yeah.

Om Malik Now he was saying this a long time ago, so – and I think blog is the epicenter of the digital existence at least for people who like to publish on the web. So, there’s a lot of people who just want to be friends with other people and publish amongst their friends, sort of like for them Facebook might be interesting. But for people who are like me or like John or like you, I think blogs should and always will be the most crucial place for us because that’s where we can bring everything together. But I think the bigger challenge here is that the blogs need to evolve from what they were. They started off as content management systems with some level of discussion attached to them but now they need to go more than that.

And I think they – and what I mean by that is they need to kind of embrace the fact that we publish more in different ways. We publish photos, we publish videos, we publish tweets and we publish them from our cell phones and we publish them not from a computer, and we are always interacting with our blog or what we publish in a very different sort of a way. It’s more of a life stream than just a blog. And I think people – the people who make tools for these platforms, whether it’s WordPress or Six Apart, they need to kind of just take a step back and say, okay, how do we evolve this technology. And I think that’s the crucial part, you know; creating more of a conversation platform than just a random publishing platform.

So, the point is, like you can publish as many photos as you want but if nobody sees it, like who cares, right? Like even if your friends don’t see the photographs you’ve taken, like you’re really – whistling in the wind so to speak. And so that’s where the blogging platforms need to evolve to. And I think hopefully in the last couple of weeks, all the stuff which has happened around Facebook and FriendFeed and Twitter, etcetera, people will start to pay more attention. I think that’s the key part.

Leo Laporte It’s interesting that you should mention Six Apart because we had Anil Dash on, when we were talking about this on TWiT and that’s exactly what the Anil said. I have a feeling companies like Six Apart are going to – it’s kind of a thorny problem but I think they are going to address this. I think it’s a mixture of the blog and some sort of social media.

Om Malik I think John might have some ideas about that.

John C. Dvorak You know, I’m not – you know I –

Leo Laporte He hates everything.

John C. Dvorak I don’t hate everything. I think there’s a couple of things going on with blogs / buzz [ph]. One is as – they never …

Leo Laporte They’re crap. That’s the problem.

John C. Dvorak They never started off as content managers per se, but they were. And –

Leo Laporte They ended up being –

John C. Dvorak Yeah, and the thing that I think is missing is the variety. I think this is what the problem is. They’re still a blog model with a last in, first out kind of – you know, the last thing you post is at the top so everything is backwards.

Leo Laporte You want some sort of a random –?

John C. Dvorak So, you did a five-part series, you have to read part five first…

Leo Laporte Yeah that’s backwards.

John C. Dvorak …which is ridiculous. No, I think there should be something called a nouveau blog and you’re starting to see them now, which are these templates which turn the blog into what looks like a magazine or a publication. And so you can have fixed areas that don’t really change and you can have a rotation of photos. I mean there is no reason that the New York Times can’t be a blog template, and in fact, Facebook, as matter of fact, not Facebook, I’m sorry but DealBook in the back of the New York Times is in fact a WordPress blog and it’s been jiggered around to look like a – just a section of columns.

So I think the potential for blogs to go into the next – to move ahead into the next generation where they become more than just the simple run – you know, one thing that runs down to China with the, your posts, and the most recent post going last. I think that the model is tired and I think…

Leo Laporte What about this notion that both Anil and Om were talking about with the fact that the blog is kind of an island in the middle of nowhere. If you don’t get this kind of – not merely people going to your blog but this kind of – you need, you need some sort of like, social media-like flow and interaction around it. The comments are so static. Is there some way to make this be more social?

John C. Dvorak I don’t see why there is – I’d like to see some different models that would maybe incorporate a social mechanism that was a little more active. I mean I like the idea that some of the blogs you can – there is lot of plug-ins now that some people use a lot.

Leo Laporte I use a thing called Echo on my blog. It’s a new commenting engine. It’s really amazing.

John C. Dvorak And there’s…Really?

Leo Laporte Yes, it’s like Disqus. Because it pulls in – I don’t know how, from Twitter from FriendFeed from everywhere else, become part of your comment stream. So you are not losing your – you still have a locus but you are including everything and it’s a first step in that direction.

John C. Dvorak I have seen a lot of blogs that have the Twitter feed on their front page and other kinds of things which make it look a little more interesting. I don’t know, I – what I’m just getting tired of is the last in, first out process where you have the thing at the top.

Leo Laporte That’s a good point.

John C. Dvorak And then it just scrolls down to infinity and then so you don’t…

Leo Laporte That comes from this kind of misapprehension that you’re really a link blog. You are a…

John C. Dvorak Well, I think it came from the diary thing.

Leo Laporte Yes.

John C. Dvorak As a diarist...

Leo Laporte Yes, it’s a journal.

John C. Dvorak Yes, journal. And I don’t think – does that make, I mean – there is lot of people like to do – write a journal which is fine, I don’t have problem with that. I think most of them are uninteresting but...

Leo Laporte Something like dooce, Heather, has done a great job with that, I mean.

John C. Dvorak There’s dozens of really good journal style blogs that are kind of interesting to read. Why does every blog have to be like that?

Leo Laporte Right.

John C. Dvorak And the versatility when it comes to – when you do get a template and there is a couple of guys that do this real wild templates.

Leo Laporte Revolution is what I use, and it has …

John C. Dvorak Revolution is – yeah, but you have to – that revolution is –

Leo Laporte It takes some work.

John C. Dvorak It takes some work to figure out. You got to watch all the videos and it’s really difficult.

Leo Laporte So you’re a lifoblog?

John C. Dvorak Yes, yes.

Leo Laporte Last in first out. Do you want to change Dvorak Uncensored?

John C. Dvorak Oh, I’m changing. Yes, but I’m changing it slightly but I’m still going to be lifo on one side and it is going to be more stagnant stuff around it. But yes, no, I’d like to change it but it’s a blog which is what it looks like. At some point you’d want to say well maybe I don’t want it to look like a blog anymore because there are creditability issues. Blogs have – don’t have the same creditability as stagnant pages.

Om Malik I don’t know John, I think that ship has sailed a long time ago.

John C. Dvorak Yes, amongst people like you and me and Leo but in fact the general public when they – if they – I always say this if you were, say you took the New York Times and you took a blog and you have the blog that’s scrolling, you take the exact same article and you put on the front page of the New York Times as kind of a stagnant spot, and then you have it on the blog. And you take somebody in some blind test, you take a big population of people and see which of those two has the most creditability. If you had a creditability scale.

Leo Laporte It’s not just creditability, it’s readability. Go to – here’s an exercise, go to This – we talked about this a couple of weeks ago. I had never heard of it. It’s bigger than TMZ, this is Yahoo’s celebrity and it is a blog but it’s not. It’s Us magazine. I mean they really have figured out a way, it’s time based but this doesn’t look like a blog. You see this – you see a bunch of stories and there’s kind of a Hollywood squares kind of layout.

Kirk Harnack Yes, Paris Hilton would say “that’s hot.”

Leo Laporte It’s I think this is a good design. Look at the advertisement intermixed with the tiles, they have got a pole in there. This kind of gives you an idea of – and it still has – you notice one of the squares is the latest and it’s chronological, reverse chronological. By the way this is huge, they get – I can’t remember; it was 40 million uniques a month. I never even heard of it.

John C. Dvorak I never heard of it till now.

Leo Laporte I know.

John C. Dvorak But we are not, mavens of the celebrity scene.

Leo Laporte And that’s what I’m – but what I’m saying is this is real people. Real people use this not people like you, me and Om and Kirk who are, you know comfortable with the web memes; this is more like real people.

John C. Dvorak To be honest about it, this is actually quite crappy.

Om Malik I just was wondering how long it would take…

Leo Laporte I expected nothing less from you John, nothing less at all.

John C. Dvorak You are not going to argue, I know that.

Kirk Harnack But if you want Angelina Jolie news, it’s – I found it in two seconds. There you go.

Leo Laporte It achieves what it’s intended to achieve.

Kirk Harnack Ooh, there is my Mylie Cyrus news.

Leo Laporte See?

Kirk Harnack Mylie Cyrus…

Leo Laporte See what I’m saying? Look who is on the front page, okay, Lindsey Lohan, I don’t know who that is, Mary J. Blige, I don’t know who that is, Seyfried, see my problem is I’m not hip with this stuff, is that Vanessa Williams? I don’t even know who that is, Milla Jovovich? Some sort of baby makes shopping spree story, real housewife, see my problem is, and it is probably yours too, John, we have no idea who these people are.

John C. Dvorak And we don’t care.

Leo Laporte And nor do we care and I think that’s something to be proud of.

John C. Dvorak Because this is promoted for people that really have nothing better to do with their time than follow somebody else’s life.

Leo Laporte This is bigger – this is bigger than almost any other website you and I have visited in the last two years. This is huge. Don’t you want to read about Dina Lohan on Lindsay’s Home Burglary? Yes, yes I know you do. All right get the bourbon out.

Kirk Harnack Yeah I need a drink

John C. Dvorak Yeah.

Leo Laporte I think it’s time for a drink after that one.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, a stiff drink.

Leo Laporte So, when you were talking, Om, about platforms and building on a weak platform, building on Twitter, building on Facebook, I was thinking this is where Microsoft really succeeded, they made a platform that a developer could rely on that was consistent even across versions and really we wouldn’t be.

John C. Dvorak You’re talking about Windows.

Leo Laporte Yeah, we wouldn’t be where we are today if we didn’t have that kind of rock solid platform for the developers, where is the Windows of the Internet?

John C. Dvorak Om, tell him.

Leo Laporte Do you know?

Om Malik John, you should tell him that.

Leo Laporte Is that what we need Om? I mean is that the response.

John C. Dvorak It’s going to be Chrome.

Leo Laporte Maybe it is.

Om Malik Do you think?

John C. Dvorak No I don’t know, I doubt it.

Om Malik It’s Google man come on look at their track record. I mean they’ve not done anything great, they do a lot of things, they don’t do anything great, Gmail also – it’s taken a long time.

John C. Dvorak Well I am not going to argue you with you. I am glad you are on my side.

Leo Laporte No Google is the emperor’s new clothes. Google is this company everybody loves, since their IPO.

John C. Dvorak Because they do no evil.

Leo Laporte They do no evil. Since their IPO 480% increase in value…

John C. Dvorak Yeah.

Leo Laporte …in five years, it was five years ago.

John C. Dvorak I am surprised it’s – I mean –

Leo Laporte It should have been more.

John C. Dvorak If it wasn’t for the economic collapse it would be at 750.

Leo Laporte Yeah. So and yet it is kind of the emperor’s new clothes because if you look at everything – all of Google’s initiatives they are all kind of half-baked.

John C. Dvorak Yeah and they – a lot of them they just dropped the ball.

Leo Laporte Dodge ball, literally, dropped.

John C. Dvorak Yeah. Dropped the ball.

Leo Laporte Dropped the ball.

John C. Dvorak And they had their catalogue thing for a while and they just [ph] let that one.

Leo Laporte Let’s talk about Google Books because that was a big story this week.

John C. Dvorak We’re all giving him a blank stare. There is a bunch of stuff that’s happened with Google Books, but which one are you talking about? The fact that nobody is buying into their lawsuit, what their settlement is?

Leo Laporte Yeah.

John C. Dvorak Yeah.

Leo Laporte And including, I might add, Microsoft and Yahoo!

John C. Dvorak Did you get the letters from them?

Leo Laporte No, they were sending out letters?

John C. Dvorak You didn’t get the letters?

Leo Laporte I don’t have any books, do I have books on Google Books?

John C. Dvorak You had a bunch of books, yeah.

Leo Laporte I probably do.

John C. Dvorak Those Wiley books that you... [indiscernible]

Leo Laporte Yeah, 13 books on Q [ph].

John C. Dvorak Those 13 books where they gave you like 500 bucks a book.

Leo Laporte A book. It was a great deal, I put my picture on the cover.

John C. Dvorak And no royalties [ph] after that.

Leo Laporte Yeah, no that was a great deal. Yeah, that book.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, those books. The ones that would you [indiscernible].

Leo Laporte Those that are all on the shelf there, right.

John C. Dvorak And you paid no attention to my advice on this deal.

Leo Laporte Yeah that one.

John C. Dvorak Yeah that.

Leo Laporte So they’re probably on Google Books. I didn’t even think about that.

John C. Dvorak You should have gotten letters for each one of those books.

Leo Laporte Microsoft and Yahoo! joining a group of opponents to a class action settlement that gives Google the right to digitize millions of books, including books that are not in the public domain.

John C. Dvorak Right.

Leo Laporte The companies are becoming part of the Open Book Alliance. I like that.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, right. Open Book.

Leo Laporte We figured out a way to close books with the Open Book Alliance made up of non-profits and libraries that have raised a red flag against Google’s plan to digitize books and put them on the Internet.

John C. Dvorak Very old trick to give it names like that.

Leo Laporte Yeah that’s – they learned from the beltway.

John C. Dvorak [ph] Classic Silicon Valley.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Oh yes, we’re the Open Books Alliance now get your hands off my book. A spokesperson from Microsoft said yes we’ve agreed to participate in the Open Book Alliance, Yahoo! has also signed on, Amazon has also joined.

Kirk Harnack But look who is against it; ACLU, Electronic Frontier Foundation, Samuels and Law [ph] technology and public policy [indiscernible].

Leo Laporte It would allow Google and only – and this is the key ¬¬–

John C. Dvorak This is the key.

Leo Laporte Only Google to digitize so-called orphan works.

John C. Dvorak Yeah.

Leo Laporte These are works. Orphan works are still in copyright.

John C. Dvorak This is so bogus that the would –

Leo Laporte How do they determine it’s orphaned?

John C. Dvorak Because they can’t find the owner of the copyright.

Leo Laporte It’s not clear who owns the rights. Who’s they?

John C. Dvorak They – the great they.

Leo Laporte Is there some librarian somewhere who says. Okay Google, it’s – I can’t find the rights you go ahead and digitize, it’s all yours Google. Google’s took issue with the criticism, the Google says – I think, I am thinking Google is the…

John C. Dvorak Do the voice, do the voice!

Leo Laporte …Eddie Haskell. Oh no that was Apple.

John C. Dvorak Yeah that was Apple.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

John C. Dvorak You got, you just do that…

Leo Laporte Is that the neck beard voice? The agreement is not exclusive if unproved by the court it will –

John C. Dvorak That’s Clinton!

Leo Laporte I don’t know, the agreement is not exclusive. If approved by the court it will expand – I did not do that woman – it will expand access to millions of books in the United States.

Kirk Harnack The book rights register.

Leo Laporte The agreement stands to inject more competition into the digital book space, I like that word, so it’s understandable why our competitors would fight hard to prevent more competition. Do no evil.

John C. Dvorak I love the way they twist it.

Leo Laporte Hey this is all twisted you can’t – you need a, you need a –

John C. Dvorak It’s genius.

Leo Laporte You need a Bloomsday Book to understand the half of what these guys are saying. NYU Professor James Grimmelmann…

John C. Dvorak If that is indeed his real name.

Leo Laporte I am not making this up, I am not making this up, he runs; says “Google is right there are access benefits to making books available, the question of whether this is good or bad for competition is hotly contested, there are clear ways that the settlement could create a concentration of power especially over orphan books.” It’s only the orphan book thing that makes the difference, right. If Google is just saying, “Hey anybody can digitize these” We think we would like to but if Microsoft wanted to – because Microsoft dropped its book [ph] initially.

John C. Dvorak I know they released all the books to the public domain.

Leo Laporte Good for them. That’s what Google will not do, right?

John C. Dvorak No.

Leo Laporte The proposed settlement was reached.

John C. Dvorak If Google digitizes a public domain book they stamp their little watermark on every page as a Google Book.

Leo Laporte It’s now a Google Book.

John C. Dvorak It’s bull.

Leo Laporte And by the way, it’s not public domain and that’s the point; it’s orphaned.

John C. Dvorak No, but there are public domain books…

Kirk Harnack Yeah.

John C. Dvorak …that go back to the 1920s.

Leo Laporte That now become Google Books.

John C. Dvorak Yeah.

Leo Laporte And nobody else can do it?

John C. Dvorak You can’t, the way it’s – the way they have the license deal is that, I mean, if you have a copy of the book and you want to scan it in yourself, yeah, you can go out and reprint it if you wanted to. But if Google reprinted some book from the University of South Dakota…

Leo Laporte They now have the copyright?

John C. Dvorak And they own the copyright to the digital version.

Leo Laporte Oh that sucks.

Kirk Harnack Their digital version.

John C. Dvorak Yeah their digital version, not one you might do.

Leo Laporte Right. But they are the only one who are going to spend any money doing this. If they do it it’s done.

John C. Dvorak You could do it; I mean you could take a book it takes you about few weeks.

Leo Laporte Part of the agreement, they are paying $125 million to create a Book Rights Registry where authors and publishers can register their work so you and I would run over to the Books Rights Registry and say we own these books.

John C. Dvorak Right.

Leo Laporte And receive compensation from institutional subscriptions or book sales so that’ll be big bucks.

John C. Dvorak Yeah I get five, six bucks per book, who knows. Well you know maybe you didn’t, you might not –one of the things I always do and I always tell people to do this when they do a book deal is that you got to get the rights back to the book.

Leo Laporte I know you told me I should do that, I did not do that.

John C. Dvorak They always sign off on it.

Leo Laporte Because they don’t care; they know it’s worthless after five years.

John C. Dvorak You know they don’t care.

Leo Laporte Five months.

John C. Dvorak Or whatever.

Leo Laporte You can’t even get – find mine in the bargain bin.

John C. Dvorak So you get your rights back after – and it’s a performance clause usually, once the book doesn’t sell enough copies per quarter or per half year you have – they have to give you the book back in 90 days or 60 days. And so then you have their rights and so then now you own the book again, you own your own writing and that’s what everyone should do.

Leo Laporte That’s the way to do it.

John C. Dvorak Yeah.

Leo Laporte And then what would happen, would Google –

John C. Dvorak I think that’s why I got all those letters.

Leo Laporte Google would notify because you have the rights.

John C. Dvorak Yeah.

Leo Laporte Otherwise [ph] Q, see that’s what happened. [ph] Q got the letters.

John C. Dvorak Yeah.

Leo Laporte Along with 1000 other letters and they put them in a box.

John C. Dvorak Right. They sent me one letter for each book.

Leo Laporte Jeez Louise. And what did they offer you?

John C. Dvorak I can’t figure it out. They just want you to sign up and you know so if there is money they will give you some. I can’t ¬ – I’m looking this over going “I don’t know what this is.”

Leo Laporte Om do you have a dog in this hunt as Kirk would say.

Om Malik I do, except I don’t know how much control I have on that dog; I wrote a book called Broadbandits and Wiley published it.

John C. Dvorak Oh Wiley.

Om Malik But they gave me some advance and that was the last I heard of it.

John C. Dvorak Did you sign the dummy contract?

Om Malik No, I actually – I must have.

John C. Dvorak Yeah don’t sign the dummy contract. I mean the only reason they make a dummy contract is because dummies sign them. The – I remember…

Leo Laporte Where is my rimshot? I should have known as soon as you’ve gave him the leading line I should have had it ready.

John C. Dvorak So no, the dummy contract. Yeah the – Wiley’s dummy contract, they keep the book forever; you basically sold the book to them.

[rimshot sound effect]

Om Malik Actually [ph] no, I didn’t get it.

John C. Dvorak You could have done that throughout the show.

Om Malik I didn’t sign the dummy contract there.

Leo Laporte Oh you were smart.

John C. Dvorak Well there is a lot of things in there, there is a bunch of liability clauses that got to go in these book [ph] contracts that you got to get rid of; there is about 50 items that have to be pulled out of a typical book contract. They always do it if you have the – if you just say hey I don’t want this.

Om Malik Right.

John C. Dvorak They just say oh, okay. As opposed to people who just sign.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

John C. Dvorak They are very – they negotiate, that’s what the contract is for.

Leo Laporte This is – that’s what I always hate about negotiations, you’re negotiating with somebody who makes a living negotiating and I make a living being a genial fellow on the radio.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, you’re a genial fellow and so you sign – you would sign…

Leo Laporte Hey okay, sure whatever.

John C. Dvorak You would sign the dummy contract.

Leo Laporte I’m a dummy, I will sign the dummy – woah!

[rimshot sound effect]

Leo Laporte All right.

John C. Dvorak No more.

Leo Laporte No more.

John C. Dvorak You are too big now.

Leo Laporte Nobody has asked me to sign a contract in years.

John C. Dvorak You don’t need one, you are making more money than them put together you are making more money than Wiley.

Leo Laporte I probably am but that’s not saying much, I probably am.

Om Malik Yeah that’s the one publisher I won’t recommend. Let me just say that.

John C. Dvorak Actually none of them –

Leo Laporte They are all the same.

John C. Dvorak Pretty much.

Leo Laporte It’s a bad business these days. It really is.

Om Malik I think why don’t you just publish a book and just get it on Kindle; I mean if you are writing a tech book…

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Om Malik …ou probably reach all the right people with the Kindle.

Leo Laporte Yeah, unless they…

John C. Dvorak I think you’re probably right.

Om Malik I don’t know, I mean that’s the way I was thinking.

John C. Dvorak But you only get 30% of the money, the Kindle guys get the other 70 which is still actually not bad.

Om Malik Yeah which is better than 15%.

John C. Dvorak Or 10.

Om Malik Or maybe nothing! Or 500 bucks.

John C. Dvorak Or you pay.

Leo Laporte I think it says that in the dummy contract “or maybe nothing”, it’s in there, it’s at Clause 14.2. Let’s check into here real quickly, see if there is any great audio books to purchase. Kirk with all the travel you do I think you must have an account.

Kirk Harnack I do, I do.

Leo Laporte Do you listen to audiobooks?

Kirk Harnack I do.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Audible is the place to go for audio book 60,000 titles now. What kind of stuff do you listen to? You like to listen to the thrillers or the serious stuff?

Kirk Harnack I listened to Snow Crash and the, what was the book about the divers?

Leo Laporte Shadow Divers.

Kirk Harnack That one, that one.

Leo Laporte One of the best audio books of all time.

Kirk Harnack I listen to that when I was on this tour of Brazil we were in the bus bouncing down the dusty road, me and my wife and I thought it’s four hours till we get to the…

Leo Laporte I need something, I got to have something.

Kirk Harnack …wherever we are going to so I am going to listen to that. But lately I have been into a lot of Ayn Rand stuff so I am listening to capitalism. Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal.

John C. Dvorak Uh oh.

Leo Laporte I would think you would be an Ayn Rand fan John C. Dvorak.

John C. Dvorak I don’t want even talk about Ayn Rand, so let’s not even –

Leo Laporte You know you’re not a fan of objectivism John? You don’t believe?

John C. Dvorak When I was in college I had a roommate for a while who is an objectivism nut and he – that was the end of it.

Leo Laporte They are nice thick books though; that’s the best part.

Kirk Harnack I am just a capitalism, not an objectivism nut.

Leo Laporte I like the thickness frankly; I buy them for that.

Kirk Harnack It’s not [ph] that a lot of CEO types are big Ayn Rand fans.

Leo Laporte Of course they are.

Kirk Harnack Yeah, yeah.

Leo Laporte Because it’s all about, “I am Dagny Taggart and I run the world”. Shadow Divers is a good one for – if you’ve never read an audio book, this is kind of like the greatest audio book for your first one. Because it’s just, it’s gripping, it’s the true story of two guys who are these – they are dry suit divers, they are deep sea divers, not scuba, deep sea divers – you’re a diver, right?

Kirk Harnack No.

Leo Laporte Are you a diver?

Kirk Harnack I’m a pilot. I’m the air guy.

Leo Laporte That’s right you go up not down. I go down.

John C. Dvorak Woah, hit the drums.

Kirk Harnack Badabing.

Leo Laporte Where is my rimshot? Shadow Divers; two Americans who risked everything to solve one of the last mysteries of World War II; they find a U-boat that is not recorded – a sunken U-boat that’s not recorded anywhere. No one knew that it sank, it’s very, very deep so they’re I mean they are using these weird nitrogen mixes in their tanks I mean they are doing weird stuff and it’s a story of them finding the wreck figuring out whose wreck it is and ultimately going to meet the families of the German soldiers, German naval – the seamen who went down. Let me play this story for you.

Unidentified Speaker The book is rooted in hundreds of hours of interviews with Chatterton and Kohler plus countless more hours.

Leo Laporte See I hate it when they do this.

John C. Dvorak Yes, yes.

Leo Laporte And it makes me mad, they put the foreword on there.

Unidentified Speaker And other witnesses to the events.

Leo Laporte I don’t, you know, I don’t want to hear the foreword, but this Michael Prichard reading and he does a great job with it. I’ll tell you what…

John C. Dvorak Michael Pritchard the comedian?

Leo Laporte Not the comedian no, it always confused me because Michael Prichard without a T does a lot of audio books but its not the same as Michael Pritchard who also does audio books but he works with kids I mean he is great, you remember Michael he is a great guy, he is a great guy.

John C. Dvorak Yes.

Leo Laporte Yes, I like him probably a friend of Marty Higgins. [ph]

John C. Dvorak Oh, absolutely.

Leo Laporte He could write some material for me.

John C. Dvorak He probably could. There is a bunch of guys in [indiscernible].

Leo Laporte He does a lot of speaking and Bob [ph] Serlott does a lot of the speaking you know what they do when they do the corporate stuff.

John C. Dvorak You could probably do [ph] Serlott’s material.

Leo Laporte I could easily because I have the same kind –

John C. Dvorak And get the same no laughs.

Leo Laporte Yes right, I’d get as far as he got with it. No, they do a lot of corporates and he – in fact [ph]Serlott told me the key with corporates is you throw in three jokes that include the CEO and you know, you throw in the jokes from the company they – oh, they love that so much. So I don’t know how it got in on that track. Shadow Divers: Two Americans Who Risked Everything so here is how you get it for free. You go to Actually let’s – I am going to get you two books for free. the number 2, if you go there right now you could sign up for the platinum account and the platinum is two books a month and that’s what I do. ‘Cause I think two – one book’s not enough two books a month, and the first two are free how about that. Certainly if you’ve never listened to audio books make the first one Shadow Divers but we have if you just go to you’ll see a lot of other wonderful choices. Ayn Rand. Get an Ayn Rand.

Kirk Harnack By the way that the Shadow Divers that’s a six hour book that’s how long it takes to go to Chichen Itza and back.

Leo Laporte I don’t know where that is.

John C. Dvorak Chichen Itza?

Leo Laporte I don’t want to go there.

Kirk Harnack I think I’m pronouncing that [ph] really badly.

Leo Laporte I think it’s –

Kirk Harnack Chichen Itza.

Leo Laporte Yes, it’s in Mexico.

Kirk Harnack Yes.

Leo Laporte No, it’s in Brazil.

Kirk Harnack No, no, no that was in – that was the Cancun trip. That’s right, that’s in Mexico.

Leo Laporte Okay, but let me tell you if you get Atlas Shrugged.

John C. Dvorak Chichen Itza.

Leo Laporte If you get Atlas Shrugged…

John C. Dvorak You take a six hour trip in a…

Kirk Harnack From Cancun to Chichen Itza and then back.

John C. Dvorak Then back.

Kirk Harnack Yes.

Leo Laporte Maybe...

John C. Dvorak What’s in Chichen Itza?

Leo Laporte No, that’s where the ruins are, the Aztecs...

John C. Dvorak Oh the Chichen Itza ruins.

Leo Laporte Yes. I don’t think he is saying that right.

Kirk Harnack May be I am not.

Leo Laporte Chichen Itza.

Kirk Harnack I don’t know I will look it up.

John C. Dvorak Someone put down “Chicken Itza”.

Leo Laporte Chicken Itza is how it spelled. Where would you go then if you are reading Atlas Shrugged because Atlas Shrugged my friends is 63 hours, you could go to Mars.

John C. Dvorak I thought it was 56.

Kirk Harnack It was – yes.

Leo Laporte You had the unabridged version.

Kirk Harnack There is an abridged version which is what I listened to.

Leo Laporte No, no, listen to the unabridged.

Kirk Harnack All Dagny, all the time.

Leo Laporte All Dagny. 60 – I got to see what this is Scott Brick one of the best narrators.

John C. Dvorak I think that’s too long.

Leo Laporte May be you would like – maybe you would prefer something lighter like The Fountainhead.

John C. Dvorak I read The Fountainhead.

Leo Laporte That’s only 32 hours.

John C. Dvorak I read The Fountainhead. I actually read The Fountainhead in one seating.

Leo Laporte These are the things you read –

Kirk Harnack Oh my gosh.

Leo Laporte I read it in college – you what? No, you didn’t.

John C. Dvorak I did too.

Leo Laporte How did you read in one –

John C. Dvorak I sat down in the morning started reading it I finished it like a day later.

Leo Laporte You didn’t move for a day?

John C. Dvorak No, no, I just read the whole book I just...

Kirk Harnack Oh my gosh.

Leo Laporte No, come on really.

Kirk Harnack That’s impossible.

John C. Dvorak I swear to god. It’s the only time I have ever done it with any book ever.

Leo Laporte It’s pretty engrossing.

John C. Dvorak Yes, so I figured I might as well read the whole thing and just get it over with.

Leo Laporte Get it over with.

John C. Dvorak Or shoot myself.

Leo Laporte Get over with it. I am going – okay, okay so you get, you get two books. You could have – and if you want more for you money I would go with the Atlas Shrugged, because its 65 hours I buy my books by the pound.

John C. Dvorak They should pay you to read the book.

Leo Laporte Let’s listen – I want to see if there is any Dagny Taggard.

Unidentified Speaker …individualism and collectivism within man’s soul. It showed the nature and function of the creator and the second hand…

Leo Laporte Okay, you get to choose two books of your choice for free you get to keep them if you don’t stick around but I know you will because it is really a great way to spend time. If you are in an airplane, in the car; if you are going to Chicken Itza; if you are going to Chicken Delight.

Kirk Harnack Great name for a chain wouldn’t it Chicken Itza.

Leo Laporte Chicken Itza anywhere.

Kirk Harnack Mexican chicken.

Leo Laporte Yes, Chicken Itza. In Russia, chicken eats you, Thank them so much for their support of This Week in Tech. It is a – this is a good group. I think we should just convene this again. You know what my dream is; we are going to move –

John C. Dvorak He is going to be – so he is never here it’s amazing that he is even in the country.

Kirk Harnack I got Skype, but you know.

Leo Laporte He’s got Skype. That’s a blatant invitation. He’s got – I have got Skype and I’m not afraid to use it. We are going to move the studio eventually out in the big room there.

John C. Dvorak No.

Leo Laporte No, you are going to like it because I am going to have a big round table.

John C. Dvorak No, can you have like the same setup two weeks in a row? Is that possible?

Leo Laporte No, I’m like a shark. If I am not moving, I die.

John C. Dvorak People out there don’t realize it but the studio of Leo’s, if you come here week after week after week.

Leo Laporte It’s different every week.

John C. Dvorak It is different every week. They got the cameras moved, the lights different, they have got different things hanging from the ceiling. Now it’s got a whole new board and a big computer sitting behind me. It’s ridiculous. It’s almost like there is something wrong with you.

Leo Laporte There is – well there is no question about that. You know that.

Kirk Harnack It’s just never good enough.

John C. Dvorak He just won’t sit still. I mean he’s just tinkering, it’s like you’re retired.

Leo Laporte This is my retirement. Some people go out in the garage and make book shelves. I make studios.

Kirk Harnack So, you are going to move into the big room.

Leo Laporte We are thinking of moving into the big room.

John C. Dvorak What’s going to be in here? This is such a cozy little room.

Leo Laporte I will keep this but I want to have a second studio out there because you know what I want to do.

John C. Dvorak Studio B.

Leo Laporte Studio B and you know why? Poker.

John C. Dvorak Poker?

Leo Laporte I want to have liquor in the front, poker in the back. No I want to have…

John C. Dvorak Poker in the back, ladies and gentlemen, poker in the back.

Leo Laporte I want to have, this is my dream, like I want to have you and a bunch of tech guys playing poker like a poker TV show but talking tech while they play poker. Wouldn’t that be good?

John C. Dvorak Yeah, I guess.

Om Malik That’s actually a good idea. [ph] Om, sign me up, Leo.

Leo Laporte Are you a poker player, Om?

Om Malik I am.

Leo Laporte I think Calacanis is pretty good. We may not let him play with us.

Om Malik Yeah, we can only have two blowhards at a time.

John C. Dvorak Yup.

Om Malik We can’t have John and me and Calacanis all at the same time.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, Calacanis wouldn’t be – you wouldn’t be able to fit the three of us in a room.

Om Malik Yeah, yeah, that’s just too many egos in one place.

Kirk Harnack I will – I will see your iPhone and raise you 200 Twitter friends.

Leo Laporte I think exactly. I think we would have a lot of fun. Anyway, that’s basically what TWiT is minus the poker. If we just added the poker, we really have a good show. That’s what I am thinking.

John C. Dvorak Okay

Leo Laporte All right, I am going to close this up unless anybody has any other big stories that we want to talk about.

John C. Dvorak Well, I wanted to talk to Om about why I wrote the scathing piece about –

Leo Laporte Oh, I forgot Vivek Kundra.

John C. Dvorak Yeah.

Leo Laporte All right so John writes a blog post about our national CIO, the man in charge of investment for the nation’s infrastructure and says the guy’s a doofus. First of all say you said he inflated his, you said he inflated his résumé a little bit.

John C. Dvorak Oh, yeah he did.

Leo Laporte And but the greater deeper implication is not so much that but just that he knows nothing about tech. And that he snowed everybody in Silicon Valley because he came out here and Tim O'Reilly and everybody is going crazy, this guy is a genius, we love this guy.

John C. Dvorak Tech Wiz.

Leo Laporte Tech Wiz was the name. So, Om picks this up. And now, Om, you said that we got it wrong last week so correct me.

Om Malik Yeah, sure so this is what I wanted to just point out just to set the record straight. I just called the White House to get a comment on what was John’s story just like any good reporter should. And, no, no, no – and they said that it is not true, it’s a lie et cetera, et cetera.

Leo Laporte And like every good reporter in the national media you said well the White House said it so it’s cool; it must be true.

Om Malik No I said just the portion, which was not true I wrote that portion and I said okay this is what the White House said and my post is exactly that.

Leo Laporte What should I [indiscernible]?

Om Malik It just states the facts; it doesn’t take any other issue with John’s post. It is just a – my reporting. That’s all. That’s it.

John C. Dvorak Well let’s say, since you mentioned it – what any good reporter would do, wouldn’t most good reporters get a comment from the person being targeted by an article? Since somebody had and –

Leo Laporte Did, did –

John C. Dvorak You’ve got my e-mail, you’ve got my e-mail, you’ve got my Twitter account, you’ve got my –

Leo Laporte So you asked Kundra for a comment and you got none.

John C. Dvorak No I have sent my, I went through channels I got nothing but, but I am saying why didn’t Om contact me because I was available?

Om Malik Your story is out there, I was asking them to comment on your story. I’m taking –

John C. Dvorak Well then you went on and on but you could have called me and at least got –

Om Malik No I didn’t – see this is the difference. I didn’t go on and on.

John C. Dvorak Most editors would have said did you call Dvorak for a comment?

Om Malik No, I didn’t – I didn’t go on, I didn’t go on and on about the story I just said this is what Dvorak wrote and this is what Kundra and his people said. And that’s the end of it. That’s the end of the story.

Leo Laporte The hit piece really came from O'Reilly more than Om.

John C. Dvorak Well, O'Reilly just basically went ad hominem on me and said that I was a loser for making that tape with Winer. But anyway that’s – I didn’t think it was that bad. I just thought it was funny.

Om Malik No I just want to make sure that the record is straight and that I have got –

John C. Dvorak Yeah, well I’d like to know why you still haven’t gone out to lunch with me like you promised, like six months ago.

Om Malik Six.

Leo Laporte We have a recording here.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, I want you to listen to Kundra here, my favorite part of Kundra’s – his little speech at the broadband hearings at the FCC. Where it’s just like – people should just listen to this as –

Leo Laporte We will let our audience be the judge.

John C. Dvorak They can just listen to it.

Leo Laporte Listen to this, and this is Vivek Kundra, the CIO of the U.S.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, of the U.S.

Vivek Kundra, US Chief Information Officer [recorded] If I can add to that, I think one of the biggest problems we’ve seen right now is the fact that so much of what we do online actually requires training. And I think where you are going to see the greatest innovation in the coming decade is going to be around that human-computer interface.

And think about this, I know there are people on Second Life right now, but imagine a universe where you have the Star Trek holodeck where you could literally ask the computer to act or ask questions and get answers. In the same way, if you look at some of these software companies, they’ve made it so complicated to interact with their technologies and at the same time the underlying architecture in the platforms –

Leo Laporte No, he is just –

Kirk Harnack It’s almost [indiscernible] question because –

Leo Laporte He is riffing here. He is riffing.

John C. Dvorak It gets better.

Vivek Kundra, US Chief Information Officer [recorded] Because a lot of it was built and architected around bandwidth constraints. Therefore, you had to deploy technologies that were much more complicated in terms of interacting and communicating. Now, as broadband deployment and more importantly, if you look at the megabits per second, how much information can we get through the pipeline is going to be so important. And as new end use software and technologies are being introduced, you’re going to see a huge change from how applications are architected with skip logic to video and much more human ways of interacting with –

Leo Laporte What’s skip logic?

Kirk Harnack Applications rather than binary or COBOL ways of interacting with those applications.

Leo Laporte COBOL?

John C. Dvorak Binary or COBOL ways of interacting --

Leo Laporte COBOL? What is COBOL?

John C. Dvorak What’s skip logic? Om, you must know.

Leo Laporte Skip logic?

Om Malik I have no idea.

John C. Dvorak Well, Adam Curry actually figured it out.

Leo Laporte I am looking it up. It’s got to be on the Internet.

John C. Dvorak Well, it turns out that Vivek was – once worked in a boiler room and skip logic is the term based on the script that they give you and there’s logical answers and you skip around, you go to – if somebody says no, so you skipped to part 3.

Leo Laporte Oh, yeah. That’s what it says, conditional branching.

John C. Dvorak Yeah.

Leo Laporte Allows you to change the course your respondents take through a survey. What does that have to do with COBOL?

John C. Dvorak Nothing.

Leo Laporte It did sound – he sounded – there was a Palinesque feeling to that answer. I have to say.

John C. Dvorak Totally palinesque, it’s good.

Leo Laporte I think if we transcribed it.

John C. Dvorak Somebody did and it still makes no sense.

Leo Laporte Yeah, maybe he was nervous.

John C. Dvorak Well, I’ll tell you this. I’ll give him some advice. If he is going to do any of this kind of speak – don’t go to these things where you have to – actually have to converse –

Leo Laporte Write a statement. Write a statement.

John C. Dvorak Just read a speech – read a speech that somebody else wrote.

Leo Laporte Om, do you think – I mean all of the – back and forth about the White House comment. Don’t you think there was a little bit of merit to what John said?

Om Malik Sure.

Leo Laporte I mean listening to that quote.

Om Malik Yeah.

Leo Laporte I am not knocked over.

Om Malik Yeah, I don’t judge people. You know that. You know so –

Leo Laporte You are a good man.

John C. Dvorak That’s why we like you Om.

Leo Laporte You are a good man.

John C. Dvorak I will make up for it.

Leo Laporte John does nothing but judge people.

John C. Dvorak That’s kind of – well, I get paid to do that.

Leo Laporte [ph] I’ll eject that there.

Om Malik I just was saying that John reported something. I just called a couple of people just to make sure he said what he said. And that’s the end of story. I am not taking positions on one way or the other. That’s not – I don’t really know enough about –

John C. Dvorak Did you meet with Kundra when he was out here?

Om Malik No, no.

Leo Laporte I have to say that statement that you just played, and I know you played it on No Agenda as well and I heard it there, makes no sense.

John C. Dvorak I know.

Leo Laporte And he is in – he is testifying in front of Congress here.

John C. Dvorak Well, actually a subcommittee, it’s actually an FCC [indiscernible].

Leo Laporte That’s the FCC.

John C. Dvorak And then the rest of the people that were there, believe me, were not any brighter.

Leo Laporte It’s – it is possible to baffle them with BS in this world.

John C. Dvorak Not if you could – not if people are dissecting.

Leo Laporte But not if people – I don’t know, I think this is our job, your job.

John C. Dvorak Right.

Leo Laporte Is to sit down and say, well what did he say? What did he really say? And what the hell does skip logic and COBOL have to do with anything?

John C. Dvorak You know I have been reminded –

Leo Laporte Or the holodeck?

John C. Dvorak The guy who was the most famous for like just, you don’t even have to leave your house to do reporting it was I. F. Stone.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

John C. Dvorak Who used to just essentially take what was available that somebody had put in front of Congress –

Leo Laporte But he was great. He was the best.

John C. Dvorak And he would just read it and say “hey, did anybody notice what he said here?”

Leo Laporte Yeah.

John C. Dvorak And that’s all – you know it’s not that – that’s all I was doing. That was the commentary that got me triggered to write that piece –

Leo Laporte Right.

John C. Dvorak Because I was just saying, why is this guy –

Leo Laporte Who is this guy? Is his job that important as CIO?

John C. Dvorak Well, it depends on who you ask.

Leo Laporte He controls money.

John C. Dvorak He is supposed to have oversight –

Leo Laporte Okay.

John C. Dvorak On spending in the tech sector.

Leo Laporte To be honest this is a continuation of a non-stop story of government not really being very sophisticated when it comes to technology and people who are interested in technology looking at what government does saying, these guys don’t get it. I mean from –

John C. Dvorak I thought you should have been the CIO. You’ve had [ph] more jobs but you’d be taking a cut in pay…

Leo Laporte I’d be saying the exact same thing he just said. You know the holodeck, once we get a holodeck, it’s all going to be different. Somebody in the chat room said, “that’s exactly what – exactly sounds like what Leo says at the beginning of every radio show”. It’s true. But I am on the – I am just telling stories on the radio. There is a difference between that and spinning the story for the FCC.

John C. Dvorak I. F. Stone rocks, says this guy on the chat room. Maliciously maligned in – recently in Leo’s precious New Yorker. Is this –

Leo Laporte The New Yorker is my precious.

John C. Dvorak You own the New Yorker?

Leo Laporte My precious New Yorker, I wonder how he knows that I think of the New Yorker as precious. I do love The New Yorker. He just thinks I’m a typical East Coast liberal; I must love The New Yorker.

John C. Dvorak Have you ever been to the East Coast?

Leo Laporte Hey, I am glad we could kiss and make up. Om, you are great. I am glad we got you on the show. Please come back and join us. He’s got nothing to say. Did I [ph] pod him out? Did I turn him off? Is he still there? Did you mute yourself?

Om Malik I don’t know.

Leo Laporte There you go, there you go.

Om Malik I am here. I am here. I am here.

Leo Laporte [ph] Haven’t heard a word you said for the last half hour.

Om Malik Oh, geez.

Leo Laporte No, I am just kidding.

Om Malik Oh no, no, no.

Leo Laporte is the place to go, a great series of blogs and I am reading them all.

Om Malik Thank you, Leo.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I think you have really done a good job. And I am not –

John C. Dvorak You are going to give Leo a comp subscription to the good one?

Om Malik Sure.

Leo Laporte No, I don’t want – I don’t need the verticals. I like the mainstream stuff.

John C. Dvorak I think you should check them once in a while.

Kirk Harnack It’s on my bookmark now, GigaOM; it’s a good site.

Leo Laporte No, it’s really good. Yeah.

Om Malik Thank you, Leo, for having me on the show.

Leo Laporte So you never say anything bad about anybody?

Om Malik Sometimes I do except – I try not to because that kind of thing catches up to you eventually.

Leo Laporte It’s bad mojo.

Kirk Harnack Bad karma.

Om Malik Yeah.

Leo Laporte Well good; you can come back then.

Om Malik Absolutely.

Leo Laporte John, you’re out of here.

Om Malik Thank you, Leo.

John C. Dvorak [Indiscernible] I’m done.

Om Malik Hey, I think John is a good man. John is a good man.

Leo Laporte John is my hero. Without John C. Dvorak I would be sitting interviewing Chicken Soup for the Teenage Spirit or something like that. Without you, sir; without you, my friend.

John C. Dvorak Those days are over. You passed me.

Leo Laporte I am now old. I am the guy who sits on a ball.

John C. Dvorak You always had actually more tech jobs than just about anybody else based on what you actually do.

Leo Laporte Well, that’s what I love about this.

John C. Dvorak Because you’re always plugging stuff.

Leo Laporte I’m always breaking crap.

Om Malik I just twittered that I wish I was as calm and comfortable and engaged as you are with your guests, thank you.

Leo Laporte Thank you. We had a great time.

Om Malik It looks like fun

Leo Laporte It is fun. I hope to make it fun. Fun for you and fun for the audience. I am really glad Kirk Harnack is here.

John C. Dvorak Fun for your banker.

Leo Laporte I think my banker is having a good time. He just – he stays up nights counting the money, such a tough job. Kirk Harnack is here. Don’t tell Kirk that. He just gave me a $30,000 sound system.

John C. Dvorak He loaned it to you.

Leo Laporte It’s a loan. It’s not a gift.

John C. Dvorak Yes.

Leo Laporte For gift I’d have to pay taxes! It’s amazing, the Axia sound system; I hope, folks, that you can hear the difference in everything from now on. But I know you’re going to hear – you’ve heard it in this show already; it just sounds great.

Kirk Harnack Yeah. And if we find out we don’t have the copyrights we’ll suck it out of your Kindle.

Leo Laporte Kirk, where can we find more of you?

Kirk Harnack I am – I have got a really bad website that’s ten years old, at, but –

Leo Laporte I really think, you should call it Harnack The Magnificent. I really do. I think you are missing a bet there.

John C. Dvorak I agree

Kirk Harnack Eventually, I will have a podcast called This Week in Radio Tech at

Leo Laporte It better appear on our – it had better be a part of TWiT or…

Kirk Harnack Well, we’ll talk about that over dinner.

Leo Laporte Yeah, because we – you guys were in here talking during the install and we got a huge audience watching Kirk and Colleen work on this and talking and chatting.

Kirk Harnack Well, my wife –

John C. Dvorak There’s a lot of people are interested in this.

Leo Laporte Well, it’s interesting.

Kirk Harnack My wife will be much more happier if you had the cameras in your studio than in my studio.

Leo Laporte Okay.

Kirk Harnack So we should talk about that.

Leo Laporte That’s why I am not working out of my house. John C. Dvorak is at ChannelDvorak, of course a million different podcasts now. You are the guy who hated podcasting who suddenly discovered podcasting.

John C. Dvorak I never hated podcasting.

Leo Laporte You did! I am sure I have a column somewhere where you said it will never go anywhere. You did it on this show, you said –

John C. Dvorak I have a column on everything that says it will never go anywhere.

Leo Laporte Well, you can’t miss on that.

Om Malik Hey, John, in you life have you ever said that you love something?

John C. Dvorak Oh, all the time.

Om Malik Like what?

Leo Laporte It’s usually a wine or a meat.

John C. Dvorak There is a lot of good wine. Yeah, that’s true, now that you mention it. No, there is a lot of technology I like and I say it right off.

Om Malik Which ones?

John C. Dvorak [ph] I am skeptical about most things and the fact is 99% of the stuff is garbage. So it’s like an easy –

Leo Laporte It’s a safe bet.

John C. Dvorak A safe bet.

Leo Laporte The default response, his skip logic is “it’s crap”.

John C. Dvorak It’s crap.

Leo Laporte It’s crap, just skip to the point. It’s crap.

Leo Laporte is the place to go for all of that. You can find us live every Sunday afternoon 6 PM Eastern, 3 PM Pacific. You can watch this happen. And because it’s live we don’t get to edit out the good parts. You see it all at or catch the show on iTunes or Zune or anywhere you can get – find our podcasts.

In fact, we have a whole TWiT artist’s page on the iTunes Store; go take a look at that. Go to iTunes Store, click the podcast link and then under featured providers; TWiT TV. Some great new shows including This Week in Google, which I think you will enjoy with Jeff Jarvis and Gina Trapani. It’s all there. And I thank you for being here.

We’ll see you next week. Another TWiT is in the can.

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