TWiT 248/Transcript

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Episode 248


This transcript is provided by our friends at Pods in Print

Leo Laporte Audio bandwidth for this WEEK in TECH is provided by AOL Music and, where you can get free MP3s, exclusive interviews and more. Video bandwidth for TWiT is provided by Cachefly at

This is TWiT: this Week in Tech, episode 248 for May 16, 2010: Drowning in Connectivity.

This WEEK in TECH is brought to you by the face and easy way to publish your high quality website or blog. For free trial and 10% off your new account go to and by To download two free audio books of your choice go to and don’t forget to follow audible on twitter at Audible_com and by GoToMeeting. Improve your conference calls and keep every on the same page when you share your scream with GoToMeeting. For your free 30-day trial visit

It’s time for TWiT, this WEEK in TECH to show that cover is the latest news of the week. All the tech news all the time with interesting unusual strange people from around the net – you can’t get much stranger than Jason Calacanis ladies and gentlemen from

Leo Laporte Hello, Mr. Chairman.

Jason Calacanis Hello, how are you sir?

Leo Laporte Chairman of the Board, I am well. Welcome back, good to have you.

Jason Calacanis Great to be back on the program.

Leo Laporte No, you never really left but good to have you back.

Jason Calacanis I think you should share video on your side by the way.

Leo Laporte Oh you don’t see me?

Jason Calacanis Not yet

Leo Laporte Okay let me just get you back here. No, I am just kidding. Let me just turn on the video now that I have expressed myself. Okay.

Patrick Norton I’m having this vision of Armageddon when the Russian space astronaut is running around kicking things to make them work so they can go back to earth.

Leo Laporte Here, quick, fix it, fix it! That’s Patrick Norton, my friend from the Screensavers. Hello Patrick.

Patrick Norton Hey I am also at Tekzilla.

Leo Laporte Yes, he’s got a new show for the last five years.

Patrick Norton Tough to watch the Screensavers these days outside of YouTube.

Leo Laporte You know what’s funny? I have and I will play it for you a little later own, the first Patrick Norton Screensavers.

Patrick Norton The Windows 98 explainer before…

Leo Laporte This was the day Kate left.

Patrick Norton Wow

Leo Laporte Or whatever, because I keep saying Patrick’s now the host – it’s from April 2000.

Patrick Norton You have it like on old school DVD? How adorable.

Leo Laporte How adorable. And you know it’s funny because I have a lot of nostalgia. By the way that’s Brian Brushwood – shwood, we know him as shwood, the host of the great NSFW on this network and of course Scam School on Revision 3. Hey Brian.

Brian Brushwood Howdy howdy

Leo Laporte Calling from Austin, Texas. Yes?

Brian Brushwood Yes, considerably less travel this way. I mean not that I don’t love being there in studio.

Leo Laporte No, we love you on the Skype too.

Brian Brushwood No, I’m upstairs.

Leo Laporte Actually Skype is doing – and I haven’t tried it, have any of you tried the new Skype five-way thing that they just put out in beta.?

Brian Brushwood Well, it’s for Windows only I believe at this point. You got to hold off on Mac and unfortunately like I literally don’t have any friends that are using PCs for their Skype.

Patrick Norton Really?

Leo Laporte Friends don’t let friends use PCs.

Patrick Norton I’ll be glad to call you Brian.

Leo Laporte You know Skypeasaurus, is all windows’ XP machines actually. So, I have to try it. So none of you – have you tried it Patrick?

Patrick Norton I have downloaded it on another machine, I have not – I haven’t had anybody to call, so maybe I can call you later on Brian and we can see who else will join in.

Leo Laporte It’ll be fun.

Brian Brushwood Well I’m scared to upgrade because last I upgraded it totally hijacked; we had to an entire show using Oovoo instead of Skype, so I am kind of scared to…

Leo Laporte That’s bad

Brian Brushwood That’s with it on this PC

Leo Laporte On this old screensavers, I – we review a wifi access spots and they’re like $1,300. Here’s Patrick Norton.

Leo Laporte I think we are answering questions here. Let me…

Patrick Norton You have not aged one day

Leo Laporte I look the same. There’s Patrick, he looks the same too.

Patrick Norton No, I look 12 in that show.

Brian Brushwood You know what’s funny though, is that for all the nostalgia we had about the old days at Tech TV and Screensavers and all that, it’s just kind of a crappy show.

Jason Calacanis Why do you say that?

Leo Laporte It’s not that good! Just a couple of guys standing around in a basement answering questions about…

Jason Calacanis Yeah! Totally unlike this WEEK in TECH.

Patrick Norton Yeah! I was wondering who was going to take that shot.

Leo Laporte Look at that – look at the – because we had the NetCam Networks so we had to have the double box and had to be on the phone.

Brian Brushwood I love the CRTs.

Patrick Norton I still remember right before the Neilsons came out, and it’s like everybody know that the…

Leo Laporte Ratings.

Patrick Norton The traffic, the ratings, we were going to get crushed in the ratings because non of these internet people actually watched this on television and the ratings came out and the numbers were surprising for a lot of people.

Leo Laporte Yeah, yeah. I think there’s about the same number of people listen to this show as watched the Screensavers, I think it’s almost exactly the same.

Brian Brushwood Have you guys gotten over – like I would imagine having some deep-seated rage at the way everything crumbled at the height of your awesomeness with the Screensavers, like do you feel vindicated or you guys relaxed or do you still want to kick to corpse of those oppose you.

Patrick Norton No, no no no the best way to think about it is the guy who is responsible for –

Leo Laporte [Ominous laughter]

Brian Brushwood See that laugh tells me it’s not over! That laugh tells me that clearly it’s still…

Leo Laporte You’re talking about the famous Charles Hirschorn.

Patrick Norton No, no no. We don’t need to bring up names, just the guy who is responsible for bringing Tech TV and combining it with G4 pretty much bled three quarters of a of a billion dollars out of Comcast before eventually signing for the Star Trek re-runs to be chopped into strange pieces and have double box push stuff put on them which annoyed all the people who had actually watched Star Trek like six weeks before the box set DVDs came out and he got fired.

Leo Laporte And you know where he went? He went to a channel called Retirement Living TV.

Patrick Norton And in either case he’s probably still worth more than the two of us put together and multiplied several times. He had his mission and we were not part of it.

Leo Laporte Actually I am little worried because his new company is called TV Live. Anyway with that no – I am a little bitter.

Patrick Norton Sure, you can keep thinking.

Brian Brushwood Really? I didn’t notice, what with the laughing and the maniacal demenour…

Leo Laporte I’m a little bitter, yeah I’m a little bitter.

Patrick Norton Nobody is happy when you spend six and a half years of your life busting your ass building something to have it pretty much ripped out of your hands and turned into something completely differently.

Leo Laporte Well it’s going okay now, we’re happy. We’re happy right Patrick? We like what we’re doing.

Patrick Norton Yeah. You know we have a lot more access, a lot more housefuls and a lot more control which is really nice.

Leo Laporte Yeah it’s going okay. And as I said, as many people was into this show, this one show as – as watched – Screensavers I think on the best day was 20 to 25,000 people and that we got about 200,000 people on TWiT show.

Brian Brushwood That is amazing and do you know – I don’t know how much you are able to talk about but are those numbers continuing to grow because it seems like Podcasting as a pie is continuing to get bigger. Are you seeing a commensurate increase in your numbers? I mean obviously with the TWiT’s network is expanding and expanding, but like this WEEK in TECH specifically.

Leo Laporte Well, you know the numbers had kind of – by the way we’ve chased Jason completely out of the show.

Brian Brushwood He’s not here.

Leo Laporte He’s gone that’s it. That’s the top of his chair. Oh, there he is he’s back. We’ll a little more about this, then we’ll actually get to some news. There is some news, in fact I owe Jason a big thank you because he talked me into doing something which he himself has not yet done.

Brian Brushwood Committing suicide

Leo Laporte Yeah! I jumped, Jason, Jason, Jason! And he’s still on the ledge. I don’t understand. But we’ll talk about it.

Jason Calacanis I’m close.

Leo Laporte You’re close? Yeah, we’ll see – we’ll talk about that in just a second.

Jason Calacanis Probably going to happen this week.

Leo Laporte Okay, you should save it for May 31st and I’ll tell you what all that is about in a second but let’s complete the thought – which I’ve completely lost now, I have no idea what we were talking about.

Brian Brushwood You were talking about numbers.

Leo Laporte Numbers? Oh! Yes they have gone up. You know, Pat, I believe Podcasting has plateaued actually. I think that most Podcasts that I know of flatlined about a year and half – two years ago. There’s some slight – we were doing like 1% a month, something, it was very slight growth. Then we start release – we released video of this show and most of our shows and I was afraid initially that that would cannibalize the audio and it would be a zero sum game, it would be net-nothing. But it turns out we’ve got – it did in fact increase the audience by 20%. Now, that may be – don’t tell the advertises could be very well just be although – our numbers comes from uniques. I was afraid maybe they were downloading audio and video, but no. Come to think of it, the way Podtrac counts our numbers, it’s unique IPs. So, we had 200,000 unique IPs up from 175.

Brian Brushwood You know like iTunes does a good job of purging people who aren’t really watching the content they download.

Leo Laporte Right.

Brian Brushwood So if they really are listening to a full episode and watching a whole episode I can’t imagine that

Leo Laporte If you get skip 5 episodes you stop subscribing in iTunes.

Patrick Norton Right.

Leo Laporte So, it’s my belierf, a little bit self serving, but it’s my believe that, in fact going to video did help and of course we are doing a lot to promote and expand; we just hired Tom Merritt, his last Buzz out Loud was on Friday and he’ll be joining us in a couple of weeks. So, I think we’re kind of growing. We’re going do an iPad show; I think that’s going to do very well. Is your iPad show doing well Jason? Does that got good numbers?

Jason Calacanis It’s pretty extraordinary, I think it’s getting over 100,000 downloads each episode.

Leo Laporte Yeah, that’s what I was kind of thinking for us. There is another one which is doing 50 so – I mean if you pick the right topic – the Google show did 50 out of the box. So if you pick the right topic I think it’ll do well.

Jason Calacanis Yeah.

Leo Laporte Speaking of Google…

Jason Calacanis I think it’s just starting, actually, the podcasting thing. I think it’s going from this sort of like incubation phase, then it’s going to be mainstream.

Leo Laporte Well you know better than others, you’ve been through this with blogging.

Jason Calacanis Yeah, I think…

Leo Laporte You think it’s analogous?

Jason Calacanis It’s vary analogous I think, because there was a sort of hobbyist moment in blogging and then there was the professionalism moment, you know professionalization of it moment. I think you were the first person really and Rev3 to professionalize podcasting, and then blogging was obviously Gawker, Weblogs, Inc. were the first people to professionalize it. And if you look, there is only maybe one podcast or two podcasts about every topic that are published on a consistent basis, and they generally don’t have technology behind them, sales team behind them, a management team behind them, social media behind them, you know all the stuff that in order to scale this is necessary, and right now there is I guess three people or four people doing this. And to me I think it’s just starting, just starting.

Leo Laporte I’m not sure it’s completely analogous, partly because you’ve also got this big, big media guys who want to play. And a lot of the biggest podcasts are NPR and other mainstream media outlets, and that wasn’t the case with blogging.

Patrick Norton Yeah, I was going to say it’s almost – podcasting as a concept, is kind of – it was – you certainly tried to change the name of it Leo and that didn’t work out so well, but podcasting is dead because nobody – you no longer restricted to downloading through iTunes, people are using set-top boxes, people are using – I mean Blu-ray players can access directly – most Blu-ray players now can directly access video even through RSS streams, widgets are coming up on HDTVs. I think it’s gone from being like you have to go, you have to – you need this really specialized piece of software and you are going to download this cool video show over the internet to, hey, you know what, it’s right up there next to my set-top box, next to my Netflix, next to HBO, next to Direct-TV or whatever it is. In that sense you are kind of competing against all the big names out there and it’s all just video that happens to be distributed over the web.

Leo Laporte Ultimately it’s going to be – yeah, I mean in a way we can say victory because we will be treated as a – roughly as a peer with mainstream media. But it isn’t going to be us and then they’re going to fade away by means.

Charles Hirschorn Did I hear right, did I hear you say that the term ‘podcasting’ was dead? Like have we settled on a new…

Leo Laporte Oh, I killed podcasting years ago. And you know why? I knew that we were going be for instance doing live streaming. What do you call this? What do you call the live stuff? It’s not a podcast.

Patrick Norton Live podcast streaming?

Leo Laporte It’s a show, it’s always been a show and the name of the show has – should not contain the means of distribution because there are multiple means of distribution.

Patrick Norton Right.

Brian Brushwood Correct. Absolutely correct.

Leo Laporte I said that – but…

Brian Brushwood But it’s its own category of consumption; TV is something you sit down and give your full attention to, radio is something you have on while you are driving around the car. There has got to be some different word for the fact that it’s what's on your iPhone while you are pulling weeds or working on the [ph] garden (13:05).

Patrick Norton Well, the thing is, Brian, is that most television sets are still on in the household an average of 8 to 10 hours a day, and you’re not telling me that someone’s sitting in front of that television for ten hours scope-locked on the screen and its activities.

Brian Brushwood Of course not. But…

Patrick Norton Certainly for certain programs, they are.

Brian Brushwood And I think that’s something – that’s part of the reason there needs to be a different word for it, is because there’s a different level of commitment and involvement on new media. Like the way – like look at the chat room. We’re over a thousand people watching us live. The level of user engagement is so much higher that there needs to be a different term for what it is we’re doing here. If not podcasting, then something else.

Leo Laporte One common complaint about podcasting and this kind of stuff is that all we ever talk about is podcasting and this kind of stuff. So let’s stop.


Patrick Norton Let’s talk about Twitter!

Leo Laporte Let’s talk about Twitter! We don’t talk enough about Twitter and the iPad. How about Facebook, that’s the story. In fact – we’re going to get to Google IO too, because Google IO is Wednesday, I think Google’s up to something. And there’s a lot of tech news, and we’re going to get to all of that in just a second.

And I owe you, Jason, a debt of gratitude. I’m going to go back onto the ledge and ask you how you’re doing there in just a moment. So don’t go anywhere else.

Before we do, though, I want to mention our friends at GoToMeeting, the folks from Citrix have done it again, they do such great products. GoToMeeting is their online meeting service that eliminates your need to travel, it takes that boring conference call and makes it something engaging. You see us here, four of us talking, we’re seeing each other, and with GoToMeeting you’re seeing the screen of the person you’re talking to, you’re seeing the PowerPoint.

People are visual. A conference call, it just doesn’t engage. If you’ve been on a call where people are wandering or playing Tetris or answering their – it’s not Tetris anymore, it’s Farmville, isn’t it? They’re answering their email – you’ve got to try GoToMeeting. Everyone on the call’s more focused, more interested, more engaged, you will save time, you will be more productive, you can get out of that meeting faster. For sales presentations, for product demos, for training, for collaborating, weekly update calls, just about any kind of conference call, I think you’ve got to try GoToMeeting.

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Jason Calacanis You missed the best part, too.

Leo Laporte What’s the best part?

Jason Calacanis It’s available on your iPad.

Leo Laporte Oh, have you tried it?

Jason Calacanis And it works.

Leo Laporte It’s so cool to do GoToMeeting on an iPad, because your microphone works, the audio works, you don’t need a phone, you’re just holding it. You could – on WiFi, I’m sitting out in the back yard on a meeting. You’re right, it is the best part.

Jason Calacanis It’s like an AT&T ‘you will’ commercial, when you’re like at the beach, you’ll be at a meeting at the beach, it’s like, oh, here it is! GoToMeeting, iPad, go to the beach.

Leo Laporte ‘Will anybody ever sit at the beach having a meeting? You will!’ And it’s true!

Jason Calacanis ‘Imagine going through a toll booth at 65 miles an hour.’

Leo Laporte Those are fun, aren’t they? You know what’s funny is that almost all of them actually happened.

Jason Calacanis Oh, they all happened. It’s like, one of them was going through a toll booth at speed, one of them was taking a meeting at the beach, another one was like watching TV on a phone or watching video on the phone.

GPS directions. The only one that didn’t – I think really didn’t happen is the one where the woman is in the phone booth making the video call.

[Advert clip] Have you ever borrowed a book from thousands of miles away? Crossed the country without stopping for directions?

Leo Laporte What’s that? How does that work? Whoa, he knows where he is!

[Advert clip] Or sent someone a fax from the beach?

Leo Laporte That’s an iPad! That’s a freaking iPad!

Brian Brushwood Yeah, but the iPad can’t send faxes, can it?

Jason Calacanis True, true. But that – it’s coming.

Leo Laporte Do you want to send faxes from the beach? Do you really want to send faxes from the beach?

Brian Brushwood Sending a telex…

[Advert clip] Have you ever paid a toll without slowing down?

Leo Laporte Yes. No, I didn’t need a card, I just drove right though!

Brian Brushwood He swiped his card!

Leo Laporte He swiped a card.

Brian Brushwood You have to do it at the exact moment!

[Advert clip] Bought concert tickets from a cash machine?

Leo Laporte I’ve done that.

Brian Brushwood What’s funny is like, those –

Leo Laporte This is the one. This is the one.

[Advert clip] Or tucked your baby in from a phone booth? You will.

Leo Laporte Nobody ever does that! And nobody ever will want to.

Brian Brushwood But you know what? iPhone HD, front-facing camera…

Leo Laporte You know, isn’t that interesting? And the new Evo has a front-facing camera too. And I’m starting to think –

Brian Brushwood That’s what I’ve been wanting! That’s what I’ve wanted every generation of the iPhone is the front-facing camera. I want that Dick Tracy two-way face-to-face conversation, and it’s never happened until – this is the year! I’m so excited.

Jason Calacanis Yeah, I have that on my iPhone 4.0, it’s right here.

Brian Brushwood Oh yeah?

Leo Laporte You lie. He’s doing it again. Don’t listen to him!

Jason Calacanis It’s incredible. I mean I – It’s incredible.

Patrick Norton I bet twenty bucks that says they don’t activate the front-facing camera on AT&T, Brian.

Leo Laporte Oh yeah, right.

Brian Brushwood You get a note from AT&T saying, with video chat capability coming later this year! Along with tethering.

Leo Laporte Exactly, tethering!

Patrick Norton Yeah, when tethering shows up –

Leo Laporte It will do it all at the same time. Have you ever talked to somebody on your cell phone and seen a picture of the baby? You won’t. Not on our watch you won’t. Look at the cute little baby.

Jason Calacanis Have you ever watched jerky video of your baby?

Leo Laporte See that’s straight out of 2001: A Space Odyssey and it’s still, it didn’t happen in 2001 even. Here’s one more.

[Advert clip] Have you ever opened doors with the sound of your voice?

Leo Laporte So that hasn’t really happened either.

Jason Calacanis It happens in my car.

Leo Laporte Oh, you talk to your car and it opens? Oh no, you don’t even have to, you just get near it.

Jason Calacanis The fob, yeah.

Leo Laporte The fob. And Schlage makes a lock that you can use your iPhone to open the door. So…

Brian Brushwood Oh, no kidding?

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Patrick Norton A new way to get locked out of your house.

Leo Laporte Don’t have your iPhone.

Jason Calacanis The battery’s dead on my iPhone, I can’t go home.

Leo Laporte Sorry, but I was thinking putting it on the front door of the cottage, because if somebody calls up and says I’m out front and I can’t get in, I don’t have to come down, I just go okay and you do it from the iPhone. I have one of them, I just haven’t installed it. So I guess that’s close enough, that’s a ‘you will’. Or you do.

[Advert clip] Carried your medical history in your wallet?

Leo Laporte Not yet but soon, right?

Patrick Norton Is that Tom Selleck voicing this?

Leo Laporte Who is it?

[Advert clip] Or attended a meeting…

Leo Laporte Who is that, that does sound familiar?

Patrick Norton Tom Selleck!

Leo Laporte It’s Tom Selleck in tight short shorts.

[Advert clip] …in your bare feet? You will.

Leo Laporte All these things came true, I think that’s the funniest thing.

Brian Brushwood And by the way so many of them happened because of the experience you get with the iPhone which was only available, AT&T was the first network to have those things, so they kind of fulfilled on their promise for all that.

Leo Laporte No, actually I think when these ads were made in 1993, they had already signed a 20-year deal with Apple.

Brian Brushwood With Apple, they are like this and you guys are going to come back from the dead and you are gong to create a magical device and we are going to have the only one, all right.

Leo Laporte You will! Actually that’s another story but I don’t know if it’s a real story that – was it Gizmodo one of the, I think it was Gizmodo again, why do they keep coming up with these, they said ‘oh, we looked through the court papers from last October and Apple has deal through 2012 with AT&T’ except of course that was three years ago, maybe they don’t anymore. Anybody believes that the iPhone will ever be on anybody besides AT&T in 2010?

Brian Brushwood In 2010 I am going to say probably not.

Leo Laporte Jason you must know. He’s not saying, oh your mics moved.

Jason Calacanis I don’t think they will.

Leo Laporte You don’t think so.

Brian Brushwood I thought that was a clever way of you like, avoiding actually saying anything. For some reason my mic is not talking. I don’t understand.’

Jason Calacanis I actually have the answer. Steve Jobs just told me on text and said to tell everybody we’ll only be on AT&T.

Leo Laporte I think what’s happened is that AT&T keeps sweetening the pot and Apple keeps saying well, we’re going to Verizon and they said okay you can have $30 unlimited on the iPad, no problem, month-to-month no problem, anything you want. Because they’re making so much money, I mean, one-third of new…

Brian Brushwood I mean, how much…

Leo Laporte One-third of the new customers to AT&T over the last three years are – I mean, one-third of their customers are new buying iPhones.

Patrick Norton Yeah.

Leo Laporte It has put – it has propelled them to as close as you get, I mean, Verizon’s gone down, AT&T has gone up. On the other hand, Verizon has now said, we don’t need the Nexus One, we got the Incredible, we’ve got the Droid, we’ve got the Eris. Sprint is coming out with – Sprint may be back baby, this new Evo.

Jason Calacanis That Evo, it’s the first time that I’ve ever regretted being an iPhone user, where I was just like oh, that would be so awesome, I kind of wish I was on Sprint. And I’m like what am I saying, who am I?

Patrick Norton It’s a really nice phone, I got to handle one at CTIA this year.

Leo Laporte You’ve held one?

Patrick Norton I’ve held one, I’ve used one, the screen is spectacular.

Leo Laporte 4.3 inches.

Patrick Norton Yeah, it’s really nice screen, it’s a really nice device. I’m a little, I was actually – first I was a little bummed that it’s going to cost – the built in Wi-Fi router is going to cost you a 30 bucks a month, then I realized that that’s half the price of getting the wireless broadband for a 3G, 4G Overdrive modem, so I can kind of see the angle they’re playing on that one.

Leo Laporte They’re also going to charge $10 more for 4G even if you can’t – like if you live in San Francisco.

Patrick Norton No, no, they’re charging a $10 fee for all network access to give you an unlimited cap on 3G. everybody who has 4G is an unlimited cap. They’re going to charge you an extra 10 bucks a month to basically take the cap off of the 3G bandwidth, because currently – but I guess about a year and a half, two years ago, Sprint finally fell in line with AT&T and Verizon and capped your monthly downloads for their 3G modems which kind of broke my heart a little bit because I had an unlimited bandwidth plan with them. Now the unlimited bandwidth plan is back, it kind of…

Leo Laporte You’re always a Sprint fan Patrick?

Patrick Norton Sprint’s done – I – Sprint customer service on the telephone side of things, actually is why I left Sprint.

Leo Laporte Yeah – that’s why I left, their service was so bad. But I love the Sprint PCS and I liked their phones a lot, I was sad to leave.

Patrick Norton And the Sprint – I’ve been using the Sprint data. The Sprint data has been generally speaking incredibly fast and incredibly solid, pretty much everywhere I’ve traveled, even in the sticks. In theory Verizon’s got some more network coverage, but their bandwidth was slower and AT&T, – everybody who owns an iPhone, raise your hands, you kind of know what the AT&T data plan lifestyle is like, so I sort of never even thought about buying an AT&T data modem. The Overdrive is a really neat piece of hardware, I’m just kind of waiting for 4G to rollout anywhere near where I live close…

Leo Laporte Supposedly San Francisco by the end of the year, they’re trying to push it, but I have a couple of Portlanders in here, [ph] Justin and Justin (24:00) who – and this was my experience in Vegas, we seem to agree 4G is in most cases no faster than 3G and in many cases slower.

Patrick Norton I wonder how much is the website, the implementation or the location?

Leo Laporte Well, look at Vegas as a Sprint town and it was a heavy 4G promotion. Clearwire was…

Patrick Norton Were you there at CES or…

Leo Laporte I was there at other times as well as CES and it just sucked but you’re right, CES, it was really terrible but you know I don’t think there were a lot of Sprint users at CES. They were all iPhone users. And then you guys were in Portland and you said the same thing. Again, location specific but even at its best, not particularly good. So, I have yet to hear to somebody go, 4G it’s great, it’s great, I love the 4G. It’s all hype it seems to me.

Brian Brushwood Well at least, it’s uncapped.

Leo Laporte Uncapped is good and as opposed to the unlimited five gigabyte that every else does.

Brian Brushwood Well at times I know when I come to San Francisco I stay just outside of SFO, but the hotel has terrible Wi-Fi so I actually use a tethered iPhone and I get like 1.3 megabits down on that 3G. Yeah.

Leo Laporte 3G ain’t bad, yeah. Well supposedly – so Patrick’s talking about the fact that Sprint is going to allow you to use as a Wi-Fi access spot this Evo, up to six devices using the 4G or the 3G, if you’re in 3G area.

Brian Brushwood It’s actually eight devices.

Leo Laporte It’s eight?

Brian Brushwood It’s eight, yeah.

Leo Laporte So it’s kind of like a little MiFi.

Patrick Norton It is. It’s a 4g MiFi.

Leo Laporte It’s pretty awesome.

Patrick Norton Yeah.

Leo Laporte I think I am going to one of those, I think.

Patrick Norton I think the battery life is going to be atrocious.

Brian Brushwood The demonstration they have – two of them side by side live streaming on Qik, and it looked amazing and then of course the screen is gigantic, it’s a really pretty phone.

Leo Laporte So I am seeing people in the chat room who are saying that they’re getting – they like 4G, BiggyJohn: ‘how fast is it though?’ RobSchneider – oh, hi Rob; big fan, ‘how fast is it?’ That’s the question. I mean, people say, oh, I like it. But what does that mean? Let’s get some numbers.

Anyway the phone, just for the size for the screen and the fact that it’s – I have to say Android is coming on strong. Latest stats from NPD say that there are more Android handsets sold in the first three months of 2010 than they were iPhones. Eric Schmidt yesterday – last week at the shareholders meeting said 65,000 Android handsets a day. Dwarfed by Nokia, dwarfed by other companies but still respectable, right?

Brian Brushwood And continuing to grow and this is what you get when you create an open platform. This is kind of the PC versus Mac debate of early 90s all over again.

Patrick Norton This is what happens when Verizon spends $100 million in one quarter to promote a single phone and spent a lot of time promoting Android in the process.

Brian Brushwood Well it’s the platform, it’s just not one phone. It’s like you’ve the got the incredible and all these – the phones of the sub-categories but the brand in general I think is doing very well. And then it makes me wonder what has Apple done with its lead for the last three years? These tiny incremental increases of the capability of the iPhone are nothing compared to the leaps forward that the Droid is doing, I can’t believe that I’m even considering getting a phone besides the iPhone.

Leo Laporte Well, I agree, and I have been using a Nexus One in lieu of an iPhone for months and I have been very, Jason, didn’t you switch to a Nexus One as well? Oh, you are muted again. Jason, Jason, we can’t hear you.

Brian Brushwood Jason, Jason, muted.

Leo Laporte He is chattering away going on and on, oh, you know what Jason, this time it was my fault. Oh, I’m sorry, I had you turned off because you dropped off and I turned you down to call you back and then I, I’m sorry, go ahead Jason.

Jason Calacanis No, problem, no I have a Nexus One and I found that I stopped using it because I couldn’t get some of the applications I had on my iPhone and so now I’m basically and BlackBerry and iPad.

Leo Laporte Why fancy, I have the iPad so everything I really, if I need something I use the iPad, I love – some of the Nexus One apps are great; Mint is now on Nexus One.

Jason Calacanis Yes. I feel like am drowning in like so much connectivity now because I have…

Leo Laporte We are, we are drowning in connectivity, isn’t it, it’s amazing.

Jason Calacanis I’m like, I have the iPad and I have my MacBook Air, my desktop and my iPhone and my BlackBerry, and the real loser has been my MacBook Air, which I just opened today for the first time in like three weeks. I actually just used my iPad.

Patrick Norton That’s not connectivity Jason, that’s a lot of toys. Connectivity is bandwidth, 3G, Wi-Fi…

Jason Calacanis Just ways to accomplish the test, you know, I find the iPad as the most delightful way to check my AdSense for chit of the day or the analytics, or chartbeat or, you know, e-mail, it’s really nice to do, just read email at the end of the day or in the morning on my iPad. I’m shocked at how much I love the device, you know, and as pissed off as I am about it being locked up and all the other things, that email threat with Steve Jobs and the Gizmodo writer, where he’s like, listen our idea here is to make things work, and user experience and we have the best user experience and what have you accomplished in your life, nothing, so shut up.

Leo Laporte Wasn’t that incredible?

Jason Calacanis I love it. I mean, people who are like, Jason, how could you write back to one of your employees, you know, when I told that employee to like, congratulations at being employee number 4000 at Yahoo!, and everybody was like, ‘oh my God, Jason’s so offensive, and then Steve Jobs writes like, ‘you have no life, you have contributed nothing to society, I have done so much, we have done so much, you need to shut up now.’

Leo Laporte It’s an amazing…

Brian Brushwood But he did it in such a classy kind of way. Steve jobs struck this really careful tone where he even used the word gosh, at one point, like he is just like, golly, why are you so upset about all this?

Leo Laporte It was a very interesting exchange, Jobs – it’s a different Jobs than I think I’ve ever heard of or met before. He – first of all, he’s engaging with a stranger over email. I mean this is the guy who is famous for – somebody had a meeting with Steve Jobs, Jobs comes in, the guy says how was your weekend, Jobs says can we raise the tone of the conversation a little bit? This is a guy who has no time for small talk, I think – and some are saying because of his illness that he is maybe a little bit of a different Steve. So…

Jason Calacanis Do you think it’s a 1 A.M. phone – it’s a 1 A.M. email thread with, like, four back and forths, I mean it’s awesome.

Leo Laporte It’s incredible. He’s Ryan Tate –

Brian Brushwood He was testing out his new liver that night, is that what you’re saying?

Leo Laporte It was somebody else’s liver, I don’t know. No, let’s not make those jokes, so Ryan Tate, 9:34 P.M. Ryan Tate to S. Jobs, and he had just seen the iPad ad talking about revolution and Dylan. It says – Ryan says if Dylan were 20 today how would he feel about your company? Would he think the iPad had the faintest thing to do with revolution? Revolutions are about freedom. Now that’s very – a very incendiary thing to say. If I get that email I ignore it at best, at worst I might say F.U. Jobs’ response, yep, freedom from programs that steal your private data, freedom from programs that trash your battery, freedom from porn. Yep, freedom. The times they are a-changing and some traditional PC folks feel like their world is slipping away, it is. Now you got to know all the subtext to really understand what that message is. But that’s a very rich four sentences or five sentences in there. That’s quite interesting.

Jason Calacanis I mean he is talking about Windows and Microsoft like – and he’s coming back and…

Leo Laporte And this goes on and on and on. In fact at one point Ryan writes several paragraphs and I couldn’t get through it, Steve responds.

Jason Calacanis Yep. The last one is the best, read that one.

Leo Laporte All right, so back and forth, back and forth, we’re now at 2:20 in the morning…

Jason Calacanis Yeah!

Leo Laporte Ryan has written – and by the way Steve’s responding within minutes to each of these. Do you think it’s really Steve? I think it is.

Patrick Norton Yeah, I think so too.

Leo Laporte Ryan says ‘I don’t like Apple’s pet police force literally kicking in my coworkers’ doors’, he’s finally admitted that he works for Gawker, ‘but I suppose the courts will have the last say on that and I can’t say I’m worried’, which is quite a shot. Jobs’ response, again I think fairly even-headed, ‘you are so misinformed. No one kicked in any doors; you’re believing a lot of erroneous blogger reports.’ Microsoft had – now this is getting back to the Windows and Microsoft saying you can only use the Windows API. ‘Microsoft had – has every right to enforce whatever rules for their platform that they want, if people don’t like it, they can write for another platform, which some did by the way.’ Macintosh was the benefactor there. ‘Or they can buy another platform, which some did.’

Cleary Jobs – Jobs is a smart guy. He’s leaving a lot between the lines, but it’s very clear that he’s talking about Mac; Mac was the benefactor there – or the benefiter there. ‘As for us we are just doing what we can to try and make and preserve the user experience we envision. You can disagree with us, but our motives are pure.’ That’s very interesting, because of course people impute evil motives, there certainly are pure reasons for Apple to do and that’s – what they are doing, and they have always said these are our reasons. By the way, he says, and this is the shot. It is 2:20 in the morning. The bars are closed. ‘By the way, what have you done that’s so great? Do you create anything or just criticize others’ work and belittle their motivations?’

Brian Brushwood Damn! Steve Jobs [ph] threw that jive! (33:24)

Jason Calacanis And that’s the only…

Leo Laporte Ow! Snap!

Brian Brushwood Oh no you di’n’t! But even then it’s like that's such a minor swipe, and that's after he’s dedicated a half hour of his very valuable time. I mean I thought – it’s very difficult to engage somebody who’s obviously fired up over something and to come out looking so classy and especially…

Leo Laporte Steve won, I would say Steve won here, did he not?

Brian Brushwood Oh yeah absolutely. Absolutely.

Jason Calacanis Steve Jobs four, Ryan nothing.

Leo Laporte And it’s funny, because Ryan published it but – and Ryan – it’s published in Valleywag. Ryan is saying that he thinks that this freedom from porn line will resonate for years and will hurt Apple. That's the headline, but I don’t think that’s the headline. That’s the takeaway from this. The takeaway is a new Steve Jobs who took a lot of time with a dick, and in every respect responded not only appropriately but I thought fairly coherently and fairly effectively.

Jason Calacanis I think he’s trying to change his position. He's actually trying to say like, listen here is my position, you don’t to have accept it but I want you to understand clearly why we’re doing this. It’s user experience and malware and viruses and porn make people not want to use Windows computers and the reason people are buying our computers is because they don’t have those things, and I’m starting to see his…

Patrick Norton Well, it’s not that they don’t have those things. It’s just they’re finally getting a large enough user base to get the attraction of people that are violating and saying you can’t get porn on the iPhone, as soon as they disable IP access and take…

Leo Laporte You can get porn, you can get plenty of porn, take it from me. There’s no lack of porn, I mean…

Jason Calacanis Well, I mean just talking about the application layer, like the application layer isn’t fubared. It isn’t like malware everywhere, I mean it’s very hard to get a virus onto the iPhone, I mean how you do that?

Leo Laporte Right. Now he raises an interesting point, which says – and this, to me there is some reflection to this to the Facebook guy, Elliot Schrage who talks in the New York Times and I’m going to get to that in a second, where he says, hey you don’t have to buy an iPad. This is how we do it. We’re trying to create a vision, we’re enforcing what we envision, but nobody is making you buy. It’s a competitive world, you have a choice. Is that…

Brian Brushwood That’s the ultimate, that’s the ultimate rebuttal where it’s just like, you don’t like it, go somewhere else, that’s what we’re about. This is how we’re – you know what, when you start your company you do it that way.

Leo Laporte You can’t argue with that. It’s not like that Apple has a monopoly.

Patrick Norton No, I actually thought that was the best point in the whole thing. You don’t like the products; don’t buy them.

Leo Laporte Nobody’s making you buy, and here’s the good news. There is solid competition from Android, from Google. I think Windows Phone 7’s going to be pretty dynamic. There’s – BlackBerry’s not dead yet, WebOS, HP bought Palm. They’re alive. I mean there’s competition.

Patrick Norton BlackBerry’s the large – by far the largest platform in terms of smartphone usage. It dwarfs both the iPhone and Android, so…

Leo Laporte Although Android’s coming on, I mean but you’re right, BlackBerry’s still the biggest seller.

Patrick Norton Android is still a fraction of iPhone users, and iPhone…

Leo Laporte …is still a fraction of BlackBerry.

Patrick Norton iPhone users are fraction of BlackBerry users and…

Leo Laporte And they’re all a fraction of Nokia, of course.

Patrick Norton Well, worldwide. In the U.S. Nokia barely has a presence at this point.

Leo Laporte And I have to say Nokia is struggling.

Unknown Speaker In the U.S. primarily.

Jason Calacanis Yeah, we’re talking about smartphones too.

Leo Laporte You can be dominant in terms of sales and still be struggling, can’t you. You could be number one today and still be in trouble. Am I wrong, Jason? I mean isn’t that the case. The trend is not their friend.

Jason Calacanis Yeah, you could. There are plenty of examples, like Yahoo was number two in search and had a huge market share and just slowly watched it ride down. AOL; 30 million user accounts down to three million user accounts, I mean.

Leo Laporte You can make a case that Apple’s had that happen.

Jason Calacanis [Indiscernible] (37:00).

Leo Laporte I want to take a break. We got to talk about Facebook, because there is a direct correlation between what Steve Jobs just said and what Elliot Schrage just said in the New York Times last week, and I want to address that in just a second, and I still want to talk you off the ledge. Can I get a jump, jump, jump?

Before we do that though, I want to talk a little bit about Squarespace; our good friends in New York City, They do a site that is just really made for somebody who wants to create a website, not just a blog, photographers use it for their portfolios, a lot of businesses are using It’s the secret behind exceptional websites, and you could try it for free right now, no credit card needed; go to We’re using it for our inside TWiT blog. We’re redesigning the website for the radio show in Squarespace.

The reason is every Squarespace site looks gorgeous and different. Look at the examples at; you’ll see. You can make a site, and you know how sometimes with Drupal or Wordpress, you just know immediately when you get there; oh that’s a Wordpress site, no question. I defy you to look at a Squarespace site and say, oh that’s a Squarespace site, they just are gorgeous. That’s because Squarespace starts with fantastic templates and then gives you full CSS and Java script capability. You can use the templates, you don’t have to mess with them but if you know what you’re doing you can make the design sing.

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Brian Brushwood On that iPhone app, what’s great about it for me is they do, and again like you nailed it on the CSS customization, you cannot tell it’s, it’s –

Leo Laporte No.

Brian Brushwood It looks amazing, but what’s funny is I always intend to find out where my traffic is coming from and how I’m doing, but I never think to do it when I’m at the computer. It’s always when I’m sitting on a bus or waiting for a plane that I just decide to poke in. The online app looks – it’s phenomenal on the iPhone.

Leo Laporte And you use – I can see you use their Twitter plug-in, I mean they have social media plug-ins. It makes it very easy.

Brian Brushwood Oh, it’s so easy as well and I love the fact that my website organically automatically updates based on my other postings on other things.

Leo Laporte That’s nice.

Brian Brushwood So that people going to the website get a new fresh feeling every time they go.

Leo Laporte Yeah, that’s really nice. Did you do the design? Did you have someone come in and do it?

Brian Brushwood Well, I had an older website that had some elements that are here but they – when we signed on and they became a sponsor of Scam School, they had one of their CSS ninjas put it together and he just nailed it. It’s amazing.

Leo Laporte It’s beautiful, isn’t?

Brian Brushwood Yeah.

Leo Laporte That is gorgeous.

Brian Brushwood And it’s easy enough, now that it’s set up. I can actually create entire new pages and update the content. It’s good for me who knows just enough to be dangerous.

Leo Laporte Well, you can, you know, if you want this column to be wider, you just drag it over, I mean, it’s really, really simple. Anyway, give it a try. It’s free for the next two weeks; You don’t even need a credit card and 10% off. We all have our coupon codes, use mine. When you listen to NSFW, use Brian’s. When to listen to Scam School, use that one. When you listen to Techzilla, use that one, for 10% off for life and actually it was you, Brian, who told me that it’s for life. I didn’t even know that.

Brian Brushwood Yeah, which can add up, because you know, it’s like you don’t jump ship from one platform to another when it comes to your website very often.

Leo Laporte Right.

Brian Brushwood So that definitely adds up.

Leo Laporte Make it worthwhile, you bet. So Jason, you wrote I thought and anybody who doesn’t subscribe to Jason’s newsletter is really missing the boat. You publish this thing how often, weekly?

Jason Calacanis It depends. I took four months off when…

Leo Laporte When London was born.

Jason Calacanis … London was born, and then I came out of this fog and I wrote literally a dozen pieces and I’ve been refining them and then I release them like one a week, but I’ve done about four in the last month, so about I would say weekly is the max and then probably monthly as…

Leo Laporte By the way, Weezer, no h, okay.

Jason Calacanis Yeah, I know I just found that out. Basically…

Leo Laporte You buzzed this, and I said I said it’s Weezer without an h, you geezer.

Jason Calacanis How do I know? I mean, it is a little ridiculous that I’m going to nursery school benefits and like Weezer is playing in the backyard.

Leo Laporte Hey, if Weezer shows up, I’m there, I’m there.

Jason Calacanis Because basically Weezer’s kid goes to the school.

Leo Laporte Oh that’s neat. Which Weezer? Which Weezer?

Jason Calacanis The head, the lead singer.

Leo Laporte We’ve had Jeff Wilcox on the show a number of times, he’s great.

Jason Calacanis Anyway the newsletter is at Jason Nation, I basically set up a listserve and there’s 23,000 people on it and, yeah, it’s a way for me to have intelligent dialogue because the open web is just not a good place for that anymore.

Leo Laporte You stopped, you stopped blogging, you stopped allowing comments.

Jason Calacanis I basically do like photo blogs on my personal blog. I put up photos or videos, but when I put stuff on the open web, I just get every stupid person or mentally disabled person like…

Leo Laporte Always politic – always politically correct; Jason Calacanis, ladies and gentlemen. You just called your fans mentally disabled.

Jason Calacanis It’s not the fans, it’s the trolls. It’s basically like everybody who I’ve either fired or beaten as a competitor over a 20-year career feels the need to check in on everything. And it becomes as dialogue of [ph] jhaters (42:35).

Leo Laporte I know, I know what you mean.

Jason Calacanis And so just like if I send it on e-mail, I’ll get replies back from like CEOs…

Leo Laporte Right.

Jason Calacanis …and they’ll write 500 words or a 1000 words or VCs or pundits. It’s a much better dialogue for me. I get more out of it, so anyway, I…

Leo Laporte Can I find – can I find this Facebook issue?

Jason Calacanis Yes, what did I say? Gen – what did I call it? I forgot the title.

Leo Laporte ‘You’ve been Zucked.’

Jason Calacanis Yeah, it was something like…

Leo Laporte But we talked – the last time you were on TWiT, you pretty much said the same thing that Zuckerberg…

Jason Calacanis We’ve been talking about this like six months ago, right.

Leo Laporte You said that Zuckerberg was, I like the analogy here, you said he’s over-playing his hand. It’s a poker analogy, I know you’re a very serious poker player. What do you mean?

Jason Calacanis In poker when you think your hand is stronger than it actually is and you bet like you have the nuts, the best hand and you behave that way, a lot of times somebody will turn over cards and you find out, gee, I didn’t actually have the best hand.

Leo Laporte You think about – you said you think about the all the ways you can win.

Jason Calacanis But not the ways you can lose.

Leo Laporte And not think about – enough about where the risks are.

Jason Calacanis Yes, and the risk with Facebook I think is a repeated – and people really attacked me on TWiT because I said I don’t trust Zuckerberg and I think he’s got an ethics problem. Well I think the chat transcripts that have come out, all the lawsuits…

Leo Laporte Did you see that, I have not. –

Jason Calacanis The behavior of his organization show exactly that.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jason Calacanis And people don’t trust him and they don’t trust the service and they should not. And if you say Facebook to people, I think – and do word association, the two words people will say are Farmville and, like, lack of privacy, or not trustworthy. That is a terrible thing to have your service pinned with, is being the untrustworthy service, the service that violates your privacy. And it’s the first company I think in the history of the Internet and technology that has been pegged as the place to lose your privacy.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jason Calacanis The place you can’t trust and that is not a good thing to have.

Brian Brushwood I’ve got a question for you guys, I’ve got a question, because it’s – and maybe I’m way off base here, but I thought, it seems to me like this may be a branding issue. Because back when MySpace was still a player, it was MySpace versus Facebook and Facebook was winning because it had a reputation for being able to keep your stuff private. You – by default everything was open on MySpace, but you could say things on Facebook that you wouldn’t want your mom to see, and that’s why people are melting down when their moms would actually join on Facebook and they had to see these pictures of what they’re up to. If – how much of this problem –

Jason Calacanis That was the change in the newsfeed, yeah.

Brian Brushwood How much of this is because they built a reputation for being good at protecting your privacy?

Patrick Norton Well, there’s privacy and privacy. There’s privacy like mom not seeing your posts, versus privacy like whether or not third party applications, internal databases, whether or not your actual information goes away when you delete your account, actually being able to delete an account. You know what I mean; it’s like the overt level is like ‘mom’s not going to see my post because mom doesn’t have an edu address, ha ha ha’. And then it’s – a secondary level or lack of privacy would be what’s happening to all the information on there, can you refuse to have third party applications use your information or some of the second party services that work with Facebook. There’s a lot of layers to privacy going on here.

Leo Laporte Have you seen this Will Moffat site OpenBook where –, he does – he’s using the Facebook API, so this is all legitimate Facebook searches and he gives you a few samples like “cheated test” and “lost virginity” and shows you that what – people obviously think this is private and it’s not. And you know this was a concern, I read your post Jason and then I talked to my family, I talked to my kids and I said, you know you can use Facebook, it’s fine as long as you understand that everything you post on it potentially will be public, whether through a lapse, through a change in policy. At some point it may become public. And so my strong suggestion to them was go and use it, just only use it as you would use twitter, where everything is public.

Jason Calacanis Right.

Leo Laporte And they don’t want to do that; they said no, no, but that’s the whole point is that we can have private conversations on here.

Jason Calacanis If there was a viable competitor to Facebook today, I think we would see their numbers tanking. The problem and the issue is –

Leo Laporte There’s nothing else.

Jason Calacanis There’s not really a viable competitor out there who does private.

Brian Brushwood Well you know, like the Diaspora that they’re trying to put together – terrible name by the way, terrible, terrible name.

Leo Laporte Well, you know, you understand, it’s the wandering tribes of Israel, it’s the Diaspora, right. So we’ve left Facebook, so we’re wandering in the desert. So they should probably have called it Oasis, not Diaspora…

Brian Brushwood Well that’s the problem; because like MySpace means something, it’s a word that means oh! I get it, it’s a place that’s mine. Facebook, oh! I get it, this is my public perception, this is my face.

Leo Laporte Well, it’s a project.

Patrick Norton Google? I knew that meant search…

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Patrick Norton [ph] Brands? (47:25) Some brands are obvious, so brands take efforts to establish.

Leo Laporte It’s a bad name. It may not be the name of whatever they come up with and you know what, it’s just four NYU students who thought, oh, this would be – we’d like to do this. They asked for $10,000, have you seen what it’s up to now?

Brian Brushwood Oh, dude there’s no doubt that this is addressing a very pent up demand. Like they have nothing, they have no product, they have no – they’ve got the URL, that’s it.

Leo Laporte They’re in school still!

Brian Brushwood But then – but people are throwing money, they’re like yes, please create an alternative.

Leo Laporte I gave them, when I gave them 100 bucks as I deleted my Facebook account I gave them 100 bucks just to say, just kind of more of a statement than anything else. They were at – I think 23,000, already double what they’d asked for. They are now at 171,000 dollars.

Jason Calacanis Oh my god, this is turning into an angel round of financing, and they don’t have to give away any equity; this is all a donation.

Leo Laporte Equity? They don’t have to have a freaking design!

Jason Calacanis They don’t have to have a product at all!

Leo Laporte They – you know what Ken Shepherdson our CTO here said, he said they should write 50 lines of PHP code and go to Belize. They’ve got no commitment to do anything!

Jason Calacanis Yeah. But it does speak volumes to the fact that people feel like Facebook has double tricked them, double crossed them, and they have.

Leo Laporte It sure does.

Jason Calacanis It started as the closed service, and we had the discussion of the – ‘hey, we’ve changed our services to protect you more, click here to say okay’, and have all your stuff become public, I mean, it was the ultimate bait and switch…

Leo Laporte This guy’s is the next Mark Zuckerberg, look at him. I can tell, I’m not trusting my data to this guy.

Jason Calacanis If not that, I can tell you there’s a lot of high level discussions going on right now in Silicon Valley and I’ve been pulled into a couple of them and…

Leo Laporte What would you do? What would you do to do it right?

Jason Calacanis Well, it’s very simple. You just come out with it and say I’m creating a new version that is Facebook – a new social network that is by default private and if you want something to be public you have to explicitly do it and we promise that you will get a warning dialogue box that you’ll have to click to make something public. And it’s as simple as that. And we will never change the default from private. It will always be private. And the point is absolutely correct; if they had just stuck with one thing and not become obsessed with the public facing Twitter, which is really what drove them, and this is the other reason I really don’t care for Zuckerberg is because I feel like he’s just –

Leo Laporte He’s just chasing, he’s chasing.

Jason Calacanis He’s just chasing everybody and he’s so – the thing that makes me crazy about him is you can tell he’s so brilliant and such a good executor on things, and has such low moral fiber; that’s a really dangerous combination, I believe.

Leo Laporte Do you think he’s immoral or amoral? Do you know what I mean by the difference?

Jason Calacanis Absolutely.

Leo Laporte Is he evil or just lacks ethics?

Jason Calacanis I think he is – and I said in my newsletter Aspergers-like, I was very careful to say like, because I don’t want to diagnose anybody, but I don’t that he cares or particularly thinks about the users. I think he thinks about building a huge hundred billion dollar company and becoming the next Bill Gates and he thinks about himself and he thinks about what would make the biggest, most powerful company. And it doesn’t ever occur to him, what did I promise the users? And gee, if other companies came up with these great ideas, should I really be incorporating them into my product like this, maybe I should try to buy some of these companies. I mean there’s sort of a gentleman’s rule in the Valley where like if you were going to knock off Foursquare you would at least go to them and say, hey listen, I think your features are great, I am inspired by you, may we buy the company?

Leo Laporte I think you did that to me. I think, Jason, actually did do that me just before you…

Jason Calacanis Just before I stabbed you in the back.

Leo Laporte Yeah. It was right before then. Oh! Now he froze. Okay. Jason and I are buddies; we’ve never stopped being buddies. And I don’t know what – that was another case of just kind of things being out of control a little bit. So – and I’m a little sensitive to – when people like Facebook say look this is bloggers, it’s out of control. In fact they even said ‘it’s the media that hates us, our users love us.’

Jason Calacanis Yeah. The users don’t know.

Leo Laporte That’s because they don’t know.

Jason Calacanis They don’t know.

Leo Laporte That’s why I deleted my Facebook. I did not deactivate it; I deleted it. I deleted my private page and our TWiT page and our public stuff and the reason is not because I don’t know, I know. I know exactly – I only post stuff that’s public there. I’m not worried about my privacy, I’m not worried about them selling my data. I’m not worried about them misrepresenting their policies. I don’t want to coerce other people into participating in Facebook because that’s how they would participate with me. I don’t want to be a shill for Facebook.

Brian Brushwood So you used the word coerce which I thought was a little bit strong. You’re not physically threatening them if they – you know, listen, you need to use the Facebook. I mean you are giving a tacit endorsement of it which maybe you’re uncomfortable with, but I mean I think coerce is a kind of a strong word.

Leo Laporte But look, if you want to see that picture I posted on Facebook or you want to see that video I posted on Facebook or you…

Patrick Norton How about compel?

Leo Laporte I think coerce is exactly the right word in my mind, because I’m incenting people to join Facebook in order to interact with me. We were – one of the things I was doing is I had five – on the five – I had two accounts, a personal account and a public account, and with 5,000 fans, and those people we were wishing them happy birthday, right, because we know what their birthday is; it says 30 people a day it’s their birthday. It’s that kind of interaction that we were offering that you don’t get anywhere else. I don’t wish you happy birthday on Twitter. And in a way that’s – if you want to be part of that you have to be – it’s the same thing with FarmVille, there’s a subtle coercion, Brian.

Brian Brushwood I still – I still have a problem with the word coercion. And again I understand, if you don’t want to be associated with it that’s one thing, but to say that somehow you are forcing someone against their will, I mean unless…

Leo Laporte No, not against their will, not against their will.

Brian Brushwood But that’s what coercion means.

Patrick Norton Brian and I have both worked at nightclubs, coercion usually involves like having to donate some of your gate so you can get your equipment back out the backdoor. There’s usually just a stronger association with that.

Leo Laporte You’re right. I’ll use the word encourage. Is encourage okay?

Brian Brushwood Yeah.

Patrick Norton Absolutely.

Brian Brushwood So, am I the only one who has a really hard time any time I see Mark Zuckerberg’s name now divorcing this person from the character portrayed in The Accidental Billionaires? Like now that I’ve read that book, on Audible actually, it’s so – it’s so damning of him that it’s just like it’s hard for me to separate that.

Leo Laporte Isn’t it interesting though that all the things that we’re – like the recent IM stuff we’re seeing all kind of coincides exactly with the way he’s portrayed in that book?

Brian Brushwood It’s hard not to notice.

Leo Laporte Yeah, yeah.

Patrick Norton It’s pretty scary. And the fact is that Business Insider has done an incredible job with these scoops.

Leo Laporte No kidding.

Patrick Norton And I think that they have a source who was involved in some of the lawsuits.

Leo Laporte Do you think it’s Eduardo?

Jason Calacanis I don’t know, and I don’t want to even insinuate that I might know, like I’m an insider I know, which I do sometimes. This is one of those cases where I do not know. Really I don’t. And I think somebody who is involved in that lawsuit who got screwed by him, and there is a long list of people now right, Eduardo, ConnectU guys and a lot of other people. They have access to discovery documents and discovery documents, for those people who don’t know, when you’re in a lawsuit there’s a period of discovery and you have to legally give up all of this information associated with it.

Like so when these lawsuits happen they might say any communication with Zuckerberg we need, including your IM transcripts, including your emails, whatever it is. Well, the stuff that was really damning is that he broke, according to this scoop, I don’t know if it’s true or not, but reportedly he broke into journalist’s emails accounts and then he faced a Harvard ethics review and he also wrote that IM chat transcript…

Leo Laporte All of that was in The Accidental Billionaires by the way.

Jason Calacanis Yes, yes, and also the IM chat transcript that said he was purposely going to delay the launch of ConnectU’s site which they paid him to build in order to screw them and launch Facebook at the same time and set them back. By the way, that’s like called fraud, that’d like very high level fraud.

Leo Laporte Well remember he’s a college sophomore. He’s a kid.

Jason Calacanis Yeah. You know what though, that doesn’t fly. If you’re 18, 19, 20 years old and you want to be a billionaire and you want to raise hundreds of millions in the venture capital you can’t have it both ways. If you are savvy enough to raise tens of millions of venture capital when you’re 18 or 19 years old, you know right from wrong. And if you did electronic trespassing and some hacker who did it can go to jail for 5 years, you know what, Zuckeburg can. And so…

Leo Laporte That’s true. That’s true. The 20 18 year old hackers who went to jail.

Jason Calacanis Yes, exactly, and I think this little bit of Harvard, you know, glow on him, it gets him a pass in this – anointed by all these venture capitalist and being so effective at building product gives him a little bit of a pass, and I think it built up his ego and he is overplaying his hand and now the chickens are coming home to roost, and it’s in the mainstream media now. And once a virus like this gets unleashed in mainstream media and the movie comes out in a couple of months, I think Facebook’s done, I think Facebook’s done.

Leo Laporte October 10th. So this is the beginning of the downhill – gosh that would, 400 million users, how could it be done?

Brian Brushwood Well actually…

Jason Calacanis Well, 30 million users. I mean how can anything get – huge like that get done. And MySpace got collapsed. People said Friendster would never collapse…

Leo Laporte It’s not going to happen till there’s an alternative. People like you, like you Brian need and use Facebook, it’s a valuable tool for you.

Brian Brushwood Oh, absolutely. And I would like to point out that this exact scenario was posited on this WEEK in TECH like two years ago. I can’t remember if it was Dvorak or who, but they were – everyone was marveling at how big Facebook had gotten, and I think it was John C Dvorak that pointed out like the problem is it’s a fickle market. These are adolescents that are choosing one trendier thing over another thing, and that comes and goes. And I think the moment that something else, like out of the entire pitch that Jason put together the most important word was new. Everything after that I’m sure is good and privacy is good, but the moment the kids hear new, there’s a chance there’s another option, there’s another way to go, especially when you have such a bad PR problem the way Facebook does right now.

Leo Laporte So you think it’s sinking in with real people?

Brian Brushwood Or at least the – perception is reality I guess. You know, I don’t know.

Leo Laporte So, May 31st is Facebook – quit Facebook day. It seems to me that more people will join Facebook that day than will quit it, in fact more people will join Facebook in one hour of that day than will quit it. In fact maybe even more people will join Facebook in one minute than we’ll quit it. I mean it’s thousands, maybe tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands. It’s a drop in the bucket.

Brian Brushwood Yeah, they are up to almost 2,000 people on Quit Facebook Day.

Leo Laporte So when are you going to quit Jason, you got me to quit?

Jason Calacanis I…

Leo Laporte Jump, jump, jump, jump!

Jason Calacanis Right now I am considering it and I think…

Leo Laporte Why haven’t you?

Jason Calacanis Well, I have – basically my usage of Facebook now is limited to, like, syndicating marketing stuff from Twitter or whatever, I don’t really use it that much. But I agree with your argument and I think I’m going to clear out – I got to get my photos out of there, and then once I get my photos out I think I may deactivate it this week, because the truth is I don’t get any value out of it. I really don’t find it valuable.

Leo Laporte Yeah I don’t miss it at all. I don’t even know if it was much PR value to be honest with you. In fact I got more press requests – I got press requests from quitting from CNN, from CBC, from the several local television newspapers. I mean Financial Times printed my name and said – in fact one of the reasons I didn’t do all those interviews, I didn’t want to be known as Facebook quitting boy, I mean I didn’t want it to become my trademark, you know.

Patrick Norton Can you actually – can you really get your photos out of it Jason?

Leo Laporte Yes. Here’s my , and one of the reasons I was unhesitant to quit is I had been using Backupify all along.

Jason Calacanis Yes.

Leo Laporte And this had – I have all my Facebook stuff. If I go to my Facebook – my Backupify account and I look in my archives, I have got every photo, every video that I’ve ever posted there. Now fortunately I did this a while ago, so I don’t even have to think about it. It was like there’s nothing I’ve lost.

Patrick Norton So they don’t have archival copies stashed anywhere and…?

Leo Laporte Facebook? Oh you mean is it going to go away, because I deleted it? That’s a very good question. I don’t know.

Jason Calacanis I don’t think if…

Brian Brushwood No, there’s no…

Jason Calacanis …if other people comment on it, I don’t think it goes away.

Leo Laporte No that’s right. It becomes an anonymous post that somebody’s commented on.

Jason Calacanis Yeah, so it’s like it’s even worse I mean, it’s like how slimy can you get, it’s like just the worst. Is it – full disclosure; I’m an angel investor in Backupify, and they were at the Open Angel Forum and I am backing it up there, so I guess I don’t…

Leo Laporte Well you’re safe, you’re done.

Jason Calacanis I forgot, yeah, so I think I can – I think I can jump.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I did – I was actually very relieved when I thought about it. They have got everything in here. And it’s actual JPEGs, I can actually see them.

Jason Calacanis Yeah. This was a big controversy if we were – what will probably happen this week, unfortunately, is because I have been involved in some of these discussions, I don’t think Facebook likes this backup feature.

Leo Laporte Oh really?

Jason Calacanis You can be pretty sure that now that you’ve mentioned it, it’s going to be turned off.

Leo Laporte You’re kidding?

Jason Calacanis Yeah. It’s been like a little bit of an underground thing, but other people who’ve built backup tools for Facebook or export your social graph have been shut down and sent legal letters. So…

Leo Laporte That’s not good. Well, quick folks…

Jason Calacanis Let’s see what happens.

Leo Laporte …join before the show airs, those of you who are watching live, and for those of you listening; I’m sorry.

Jason Calacanis And for those of you who had [ph] a Backupify [indiscernible] (1:01:08).

Leo Laporte You know one thing people don’t know –

Jason Calacanis ...stuff like that.

Leo Laporte There’s a lot of ways – the truth is I never posted anything I didn’t have another – I didn’t have somewhere else, because I knew that Facebook was downgrading the quality of the all the pictures you posted. Those are not full quality. So it’s a lousy place to store pictures.

Jason Calacanis Yeah.

Brian Brushwood So – this is interesting, so it’s like you’re quitting Facebook on principle because as you mentioned, you’re not worried about the privacy settings. To you, you use Facebook as a megaphone, right? And I think all of us are of the same page.

Leo Laporte Yeah, we’re the wrong people to talk to; talk to my kids.

Brian Brushwood Right. And that’s who I wish was represented on the panel, because all four of us are the type of people who are producers of content not consumers, or at least we don’t consume – we don’t use Facebook as a –

Leo Laporte Well that’s why I’m taking a bigger hit, you know?

Patrick Norton I never used it as a megaphone. I started signing up for it and just realizing that there just wasn’t a lot of value out of it for me, plus also actually I didn’t particularly want the difficulties in locking things down for me early on when I finally showed up on Facebook, I just didn’t trust it.

Leo Laporte Look at this business – this graphic from Business Day in The New York Times, it was May 12.

Patrick Norton It’s brilliant. I was actually going to bring that up, there’s 50 different settings with more than 170 options. Facebook says they want to make privacy controls as granular as possible, the reality is, it’s a nightmare of the way in the last couple evolutions of Facebook to try to figure out with everything basically being default public, there’s a ridiculous, ridiculous number of options inside of this.

Brian Brushwood You know what would be great, and maybe they’ll do this on Diaspora, but what if you just had like three different orbits. You had the innermost orbit, which was your family and you could place – it wasn’t just you’re a friend with them or you’re not a friend, but you had like, you had your mercury orbit closest to the sun, you had your Jupiter orbit, where these are friends, these are colleagues, these are co-workers. And then there was the last orbit, which is people you met at a party and you kind of like. And you could very quickly and simply and easily decide what level of content you were releasing.

Leo Laporte Well and that’s then opt-in versus opt-out, all they had to do – all they have to do today is bake it and this was kind of – the reason I think regular people don’t understand the problem is they think this is still the case, that everything is private unless you say otherwise. And if they just said, everything is private, if you flip a switch you can make it public but it is private, will stay private forever and ever. But they don’t. In fact, and this is the other part of The New York Times info graphic, the Facebook privacy statement in 2005 it was a thousand words, today it’s 5,830 words, it’s bigger than the U.S. Constitution. Twice the size of MySpace’s. More than ten times bigger than Flickr’s. Five times bigger than Twitter’s. It’s unreadable.

Now here’s my question, is this intentional? Are they obfuscating things? Or are they actually well meaning and did they just kind of screw up?

Jason Calacanis I think this is all part of a master strategy they have.

Leo Laporte You think it’s part of being Zucked.

Jason Calacanis I think we have been Zucked, we have been suckered, we have been Zucker-punched, it’s his process I think. His process is –

Leo Laporte Brian, do you think Facebook is evil or just –

Brian Brushwood No, first of all, you guys got to get a grip, first of all Facebook’s a private company, they’ll do whatever the hell they want. And if they – if it agrees with the user base then they’re going to get away with it, if the user base doesn’t like it they’re going to move on to something else. And this is a fickle market to begin with. This is something where through no faults of Facebook’s own, a lot of people gave up on Facebook when their mom joined, and that’s not something that Facebook can control. The nature of these social sites is that people are always looking for the next big thing and it may be that we’re about as - clearly, everybody is piling on right now but it’s like as far as, is it right or wrong or morally right or wrong it’s like you vote with your dollars and you vote with your feet and people are going to go somewhere else if it’s a big problem and if it’s not then Facebook will be fine.

Jason Calacanis Yeah doesn’t forgive them from acting unethically and doing the baiting switch and from having a leader who people don’t trust, so you are correct people will vote with their dollar and what we’re seeing right now is that that process is happening. And if there is a viable competitor that is even just on par, you will see people leave over the trust issue. And this is a good sign and people have wondered when will people care about privacy. Well guess what, people are starting to care because I am talking to normal folks and they are like, I don’t trust that Facebook, so the same way you could dupe people and be like, oh Facebook’s private, and they don’t know it’s not private, you could actually dupe people the other way and they’ll be like, oh you can’t trust the Facebook. That’s not a trustworthy service.

Brian Brushwood Somebody in the chat room was complaining that I was saying that perception is reality and in many things it shouldn’t be or it isn’t, but when it comes to a social network and especially fads, perception is definitely reality and it’ll be interesting to see how Facebook tries to spin this one.

Jason Calacanis Yeah, and they have not handled it well to date, I mean they literally say nothing about it and when there was the big comments about Zuckerberg saying, people are so stupid or whatever he said in his IM transcript about the user base when he was a kid or younger.

Brian Brushwood It’s like on the one hand we all know that’s totally unfair and taken out of context but on the other hand, there’s a reason that we’re all so giddy to see that, because it so perfectly encapsulates the suspicions people have about Facebook, about Mark Zuckerberg.

Leo Laporte Patrick, Facebook, immoral or just ill run?

Patrick Norton You know I kind of lean towards the private company pushing to get us – I don’t know whether it being privately held has a whole lot to do with it, but I think from just pushing to maximize their revenue opportunities, and if – you know – amoral, sleazy, I prefer sleazy to calling on morality but it’s certainly sleazy and I think in a lot of cases most people don’t care. There’s – I’ll be really curious to see, it amazes me what people post on and there’re still people using MySpace, but people post on MySpace and Facebook and are shocked when somebody reads about it…or that it gets forwarded or cut and pasted.

Leo Laporte It’s an interesting – it’s a largely philosophical question, because I think corporations as opposed to individuals are fundamentally immoral. Corporations are designed – not immoral – I am sorry – amoral. And they are designed to maximize profits. And yet corporate governance – look what’s happening to Facebook, corporate governance would – you would think would – you maximize profits also by being good, right?

Brian Brushwood By serving your customer and clearly at this moment, whether it be in the way they’re handling the PR or whether it be the very decisions that they’re making about privacy, they are clearly not serving their customer base at this time.

Leo Laporte We are going to take a break, come back with more. I was trying to see if my mom was on Skype. Mom if you’re watching get on Skype. Because there is a normal person. She’s actually not that normal.

Jason Calacanis Does she have an iPad?

Brian Brushwood Every time I Skype in we get your mom on the show.

Leo Laporte Because she loves you Brian. I’m trying to hook you two up. No because I am just curious, I think as I remember when I started talking about this, mom sent me a note saying how do I get off the Facebook?

Brian Brushwood How do I stop this thing? It’s crazy.

Leo Laporte I want to get off the Facebook, so I am going to see –

Brian Brushwood Everybody is liking everything, what if I don’t like it? I don’t want to have to like it.

Leo Laporte Who’s that? Stop poking me.

Brian Brushwood What this is crazy.

Leo Laporte You keep poking me.

Brian Brushwood I put a photo, everybody’s got a comment, I don’t – everybody’s got something to say, that’s why I like photo albums better, there is no room for comments.

Leo Laporte No, no, I don’t want to hear what you have to say.

Brian Brushwood It was a perfectly good technology, when it was in a photo album.

Leo Laporte I want to talk a little bit about This is –

Jason Calacanis Ah, ah.

Leo Laporte There we go again. Jason loves that Audible. Audible is of course the book store of audio books and shows and entertainment. 75,000 strong and now plays on 500 different devices. Still working on that Android version. I am sure that’s soon. But until then of course every other device, including your Kindle, your Zune, your iPod, iPhone, iPad, all the ‘i’ devices, iRiver, the Sansas, many GPSs as well. And I’ll tell you I love Audible, we should really actually make Accidental Billionaires our pick.

Jason Calacanis I don’t know about that, I have another book.

Leo Laporte Okay, go ahead Jason. Go ahead.

Jason Calacanis You know just I have the kid now and so I am trying to catch up on things and you’re busy and I have the Audible two a month subscription and I’m like wait a second, there’s a lot of books on being a parent, I need to start listening to these, I don’t have time to read them, and this is important information, like, in fact critical. So I got Nurture Shock by Po Bronson.

Leo Laporte Oh I love Po Bronson.

Patrick Norton Amazing book. Amazing book.

Jason Calacanis And this book is fantastic. I am so glad I found this, now this book is going to make me a better parent. So if you’re out there, and you’re a parent, you have like no excuse, get on the Audible and get the stuff on your iPad, your iPhone and your desktop. And it remembers where you were, like last - it bookmarks it basically, even if you change devices, so like I’ll get to my desktop, it knows that I am on chapter five, I listen to a little bit on my desktop, then I listen to a little on my phone. And what a great book. It really talks about this generation of kids where you say like, oh you are so good, you’re are good. And actually that’s not what you should say.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jason Calacanis Even though you think you should say that –

Leo Laporte Too much praise.

Jason Calacanis Too much praise. You should be saying – describe their behavior, ‘you did this, well – ‘

Patrick Norton Well yeah it’s the myth of self esteem they correct, and a lot of other common sense ideas in the late twentieth century and a lot of the really bad – they basically corrected a lot of bad propagated ideas that have come out through the media and other places in the last 20 years. It’s a spectacular piece of book and it’s also based on a lot of spectacular research.

Leo Laporte Yeah we interviewed Ashley Merryman who is a co-author who did a lot of that research on [ph] jumping monkeys are mommy cast (01:11:12), and fascinating, really great stuff. Although a word of warning, if you are the parent of adult children or teenagers it’s too late and you may not want to read this, because you’ve already screwed up. And there’s pretty much nothing you can do right now. So if you’re a parent of a young child, like you Jason, it’s okay.

Jason Calacanis Actually if you’re a parent of an older child –

Leo Laporte It’s too late.

Jason Calacanis Listen to it with them and then you could have the cathartic event of saying like, hey I didn’t know.

Leo Laporte I blew it.

Jason Calacanis Don’t hate me. I blew it. Don’t hate me.

Leo Laporte Don’t hate me, I blew it. Maybe I should just, I’ll play this for Henry when he’s sleeping. Your parents suck.

Jason Calacanis Your parents had no idea what they’re doing.

Leo Laporte You know and he’s funny, he totally knows about this stuff. He talks about the soccer trophies, where everybody gets a trophy.

Jason Calacanis Yeah.

Leo Laporte He know – he totally knows. This has somehow suck into the psyche of teenagers, thank god. Nurture Shock, a very good recommendation, new thinking about children, Accidental Billionaires that’s the story of the Facebook founding starting in Harvard, a fascinating book.

Jason Calacanis Listen to it before the movie comes out.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Jason Calacanis Best to listen now, because then you can see the movie with like having actually read the book, so much better.

Brian Brushwood Then you could be one of those guys who is just like, ‘pshh. book was better.’

Leo Laporte We interviewed – Dana Brunetti is a good friend of the show. He is Kevin Spacey’s partner in TriggerStreet who is producing the Accidental Billionaires movie. We interviewed him and the author of Accidental Billionaires on The Net @ Night a few months ago, really interesting, fascinating and a great book. here is the deal, if you go to you sign up today you will get two books a month. This is their Platinum account that Jason was talking about, it’s the one I subscribe to two books is a minimum for me. So I know people who have multiple Platinum accounts they listen to so many books. If you have a big commute that kind of thing, if you are rowing across the ocean; Roz listens to a book a day, a book a day, because she’s rowing the whole time.

And she said – by the way she rowed across the Atlantic – without Audible, I turned her on to Audible for her row across the Pacific. She is so grateful, she said my God, I couldn’t imagine rowing across an ocean. She is going to do the Indian ocean next year. She said I couldn’t imagine it without Audible., you sign up for the Platinum account, that’s two books a month, first month is free. So you get two books free, you can cancel at any time, never owe a penny and keep that book forever. So this is two free books, For those of you listening outside the U.S. my apologies this offer is available to you but not all the books we talked about are and I do apologize for that. And that has to do with the very complex world of publishing…

Jason Calacanis Book licensing.

Leo Laporte It’s crazy, talk about anything.

Jason Calacanis Yeah well that’s how authors get paid, they get paid for territories, so everything’s a negotiation.

Leo Laporte So yeah, the audio book may not be available in a country or maybe a different audio book in that country whatever.

Jason Calacanis Or God forbid you have like a Tor server and you logged in and had an IP address from another country and created an account for Spotify or other services, you might be able to get around it somehow.

Leo Laporte I never thought about that.

Patrick Norton Well as long as your credit card also agrees with the IP address of the tour account.

Leo Laporte Now Jason, is that amoral or immoral?

Jason Calacanis That is practical.

Leo Laporte, we thank them so much for their support of this WEEK in TECH and all our shows. They have been one of our most staunch supporters all along.

Jason Calacanis Just a great product.

Leo Laporte There are so many stories, I think it would be imprudent, improper of me to mention the Facebook privacy issues and not mention the fact that Google’s Street View was collecting data inadvertently they say from open access points like 600 terabytes of data or something like that from open access points, there was a – due to a programming error in 2006. I don’t know, most of you probably know this that when the street view cars are driving around they are also mapping Wi-Fi access spots to GPS locations so that it is like a poor man’s GPS, they can say well if you can see on your iPad or your Wi-Fi iPad you can see this access point and this one and this one is stronger oh you must be here, they triangulate you. There are other companies like Skyhook that do this. So they were collecting this data, that’s normal and perfectly legal, you are broadcasting. They would collect the GPS location, the MAC address and the Wi-Fi access SSID. However, there was some code and in the case of non-password protected Wi-Fi networks in Europe, the United States and other major regions they also collected whatever data was going through the air at that time and saved it to a hard drive.

Jason Calacanis But you got to remember this is unencrypted data, this is the equivalent of, and first of all isn’t it - to me it’s a little bit hilarious that people are bent out of shape over this while nobody has a problem with cars driving around taking pictures of your physical houses, like we got, we caught Patrick Norton jaywalking.

Leo Laporte The Germans don’t like, yeah that’s right, Patrick you’re in the street view aren’t you, are you still in it?

Patrick Norton I got to be honest, I thought this was masterful headline writing for a non-starting story, because I saw, I saw this like – I have been on, I have been using g-mail for everything except for my corporate account for years, all this information Google docs my calendar, I’m like some scum bag employee inside of Google is like rooting through people’s accounts and I get to the article and I’m like they captured information from open access points, who cares, you’re one of the eight people –

Leo Laporte Fragmentary information.

Patrick Norton If you are one of the eight people left in like, if you are one of the people that doesn’t lock down your access point congratulations you learned a lesson, by the way if you are on cable, if you have cable Internet, all of your information that is not encrypted to the point that you are connecting to is open and available, by the way people can sniff your email, wake up to reality. This – there’s too much data [indiscernible] (1:16:54).

Leo Laporte How much data does Comcast have access to, let’s face it as the ISP, massive ISP they’ve got it all.

Jason Calacanis If you wanted to go after Google about a privacy issue, the issue is how long do they keep user data?

Leo Laporte Right.

Jason Calacanis And that’s the real issue that nobody’s really been talking about. But I don’t understand why any of these search engines need to keep over just a month or two of data. It seems very weird. I don’t know why they should do it at all.

Patrick Norton I thought there were legal – I thought they had to [Indiscernible] (77:22)

Jason Calacanis Eighteen now or something, eighteen months I think, but the EU wants less.

Patrick Norton Eighteen months I thought. Okay.

Leo Laporte Eh. I have to say, kudos to Google for – they discovered this and stepped forward before it was revealed by others. And they immediately took care of it, it is minor. It was a story, they took a hit on it. I think you’re right, I think it’s a silly story, but they took a hit on it. And I think they handled it appropriately. And I think that’s an example of handling an issue well as opposed to the way Facebook’s handled its issues.

Jason Calacanis Basically, they’re building credibility by how they’re handling this as opposed to Zuckerberg, who continues to lose credibility.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Patrick Norton They pulled a Jobs instead of a Zuckerberg on this one.

Jason Calacanis Exactly.

Leo Laporte Speaking of Jobs, Apple apparently according to Bloomberg, Apple did in fact press local police to investigate – in fact, we now know that Steve Jobs – a court document – Steve Jobs called Gizmodo and said, ‘give me back my phone.’

Patrick Norton This is another story I’m like, duh, they filed a complaint with the local police. And because they’re Apple and they had a relationship with the task force, they called the biggest stick they had access to, and the task force went after these guys. And maybe you guys can clear my head up on this, but I’m not feeling a lot of sympathy for Gizmodo on this one. Because I’m reading the EFF and they’re saying it’s the Reporter Shield Law and the – basically, they’re claiming the Reporting Shield Law applies here, the warrant that allowed them to take the computers from Jason Chen’s house is bogus. And I’m like, they don’t really care, they just wanted to – you know what I mean? At what point is this a shield law and at what point is this theft of property and – you know.

Leo Laporte So I guess it’s reasonable. If your phone – if you feel your phone was stolen, you call the cops.

Patrick Norton Right.

Jason Calacanis Completely reasonable. And Gawker Media is abusing the Shield Laws which were intended to protect journalists when – there are times when for the social good you might have to break the law. And journalists have to be aware of that fact and pay the price. If you want to do that investigative story where you carry a knife through a security checkpoint at an airport, you have to be prepared to get arrested to prove your point. And if Gawker is so high and mighty that they prove some point about the new iPhone?

Brian Brushwood They wanted to prove that they could buy the 4G if they felt like it. And now they have, sir.

Jason Calacanis Right. And they broke the law! And for no social good reason, you know? And in fact, I think a lot of their motivation was to get into a criminal situation and a legal situation. And I think this kid Jason from Gizmodo, I don’t know him personally he’s a dope or fabulously naive because…

Leo Laporte He is a patsy.

Jason Calacanis Nick Denton is making so much money off of this and building his brand, and this kid may go to jail or whatever get a felony. And you know what, when you steal something you should face the consequences.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jason Calacanis That’s what the law is for.

Leo Laporte You’re saying Nick should go to jail, not Jason, Jason’s the fall guy.

Jason Calacanis Well, but Jason did all of it. So Nick can be like ‘I didn’t do it, this guy did it.’

Leo Laporte Right.

Jason Calacanis And so he’s a dope. And you know what, I feel that the law is a way of stupid people getting educated to reality. You know, it’s like the lowest form of education we have; you can go to college or the cops can pick you up.

Leo Laporte Yeah, that’s a good point, that’s a good way to think of it.

Jason Calacanis And that’s what’s happening here. This kid is a dope, and getting the EFF to protect them is stupid because when we actually really have to use the shield laws because somebody has an important situation, we don’t want them to go oh why so you get more page views for the iPhone. It’s abuse of something that is intended for something that is socially good.

Leo Laporte All right, let’s move around. We are doing a lighting round. Moving along, a quarter of U.S. homes only use cellphones, 25% of Americans don’t have landlines anymore.

Brian Brushwood I don’t even know why I have a landline anymore.

Leo Laporte Why do you need a landline? And here is an interesting stat. For the first time ever, the amount of data used exceeds the number of minutes used. People are using their phones more for data than they are for voice in the U.S.

Brian Brushwood My phone rang today and neither of us knew where the phone were and neither of us moved at all. It just rang and rang and rang and went to voicemail because we both knew that if they care, they’ll call the numbers that we answer on our cellphones.

Leo Laporte If they care they’ll call our real phone, not this fake phone in the living room. Let’s see. 4chan founder Moot raises – I don’t know why a VC would give Moot any money at all, but maybe you can explain this Jason – it raises $625,000 for a stealth startup called Canvas Networks.

Jason Calacanis VCs like backing young people who understand the viral nature of the internet, he is one of those young people and I am sure that the idea has some amount of merit and is probably in no way related to the 4chan debauchery. In the same way that Chatroulette’s founder -

Leo Laporte He’s doing alright.

Jason Calacanis …had become – you know like – the toast of the town. If you can figure out a way to go viral you know something and so would you rather give $600,000 to an MBA out of Harvard. Or would you rather give $600,000 to somebody who already has a website that got a couple of million people

Brian Brushwood I thought he was going to say he knows how to build an audience.

Leo Laporte 4chan gets – get this – gets 8.2 million uniques a month at average of 800,000 new posts a day.

Jason Calacanis Yeah. He understands something and so he’s just got to take that insane energy that’s there and put it into something productive.

Leo Laporte In piracy news, LimeWire crushed by the Recording Industry Association of America in their infringement lawsuit. They were found liable of copyright infringement last Tuesday. They’ll probably be out of business the RIAA. Kimba Wood back in the news, U.S. district court judge Kimba M. Wood ruled that LimeWire’s users committed a substantial amount of copyright infringement.

Brian Brushwood That’s shocking.

Leo Laporte There is gambling going on in here - and they had not taken meaningful steps to mitigate the infringement so they are liable – the RIAA is seeking $150,000 per copyright violation.

Patrick Norton They want to put them out of business.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Let’s see they’ve got 50 million uniques a month, hundreds of thousands of users downloaded it everyday, millions of active users in a given moment times 150,000 that’s a gajillion dollars.

Brian Brushwood So what’ll be interesting is, this is where it’s politically safe and easy to go after – you go after the businesses that are clearly profiting on a model that is based on piracy but as these giants get slayed eventually they are just going to have to turn on the juice and go after all the individual people pirating their movie.

Leo Laporte Well, good news. The producers of Hurt Locker are going after –

Patrick Norton Hurt Locker, U.S. copyright, sorry I was The Hurt Locker producers freaked out – The Hurt Locker’s made like 16 million in the U.S., maybe 42 million worldwide, movie cost 15 million and there’s been zillions and zillions and zillions of downloads. They started 5 months before the U.S. release of the film and then it went ballistic, it went viral after it won all the Oscars. So, they’ve hired the U.S. copyright group to go after all of the people basically to go after all of the ISPs for all of the BitTorrent traffic related to downloading copies of The Hurt Locker and they’re going to offer a settlement and if you refuse they are going to offer you a second settlement and if you refuse the company’s history, the U.S. copyright group’s history is to then take you to court going to lawsuit and apparently a lot of independent movie producers are looking at this because they are seeing huge amounts of traffic –

Brian Brushwood They are seeing dollar signs in their eyes is what they’re seeing.

Leo Laporte Here’s an interesting related story, the U.S. copyright group is suing over Far Cry and Time Warner Cable says we’re not going to give you the information.

Brian Brushwood Yeah I was shocked by this, seeing an ISP standing up against the – it was a massive [ph] 2000 [indiscernible] per (01:25:51) person lawsuit. And they basically said look, we got 4 people who do IP look ups. We got 4 people, that’s three months of their full time effort; we can’t do it, we can’t do it for you.

Patrick Norton They are going to have to do it because – what’s funny is that the lawyers that work for the U.S. copyright group said like 75% of the ISPs they contacted complied immediately and the ones that have currently refused to reply will have to once they are subpoenaed by the court. Because at that point they have to give up the information. And that they were objecting because it was – they felt it was a financial burden to just turn over the information. So, apparently a lot of ISPs just immediately handed over the information to the U.S. copyright group lawyers. So, I don’t see Time Warner being able to back out of this once the court subpoenas the information.

Leo Laporte That’s why they call it file sharing kids. Patrick Norton is the host of our newest show, of course the host of Tekzilla and so forth but we are great on this WEEK in COMPUTER HARDWARE and I’m going to come by with Ryan Shrout. He is so good on this show and it’s all about if you’re into computer hardware it’s all about computer hardware.

Patrick Norton [indiscernible] Hitachi (01:26:55) they had some issues a few years ago [indiscernible] (01:26:58).

Leo Laporte There he is Patrick Norton on this WEEK in COMPUTER HARDWARE. If you go to you’ll see Ryan, Patrick and now that Colleen is leaving, I’m going to show up on that show more than once in a while I think if you don’t mind.

Patrick Norton Absolutely the door is always open Leo, it’s your network.

Leo Laporte Thank you, you’re the best, Patrick Norton. Patrick Norton also at, make sure you watch. Let’s not forget our great friend Brian Brushwood who is also the host of a few shows, one on Revision 3 as well called Scam School, what a great show. And also NSFW, can I play a little clip from NSFW since I played a little clip –

Brian Brushwood Yeah I think this is from we started a Summer Movie Draft League and if you want to see how we’re doing – in fact my co-host Justin Robert Young who you should have on the show sometime.

Leo Laporte I love Justin, he’s so good.

Brian Brushwood He’s dominating our fantasy movie league right now.

Leo Laporte So what you have to bid for a movie, is that what happens?

Brian Brushwood Yeah. We all had a hundred Brian bucks or Justin Robert rubles and we auctioned off all the summer movies and we’re basically going to see at the end of the summer how – who got the biggest gross for the money they were able to spend and it’s all up at [ph][indiscernible] (88:05)

Leo Laporte That’s a great idea. And then what is this here, you are eating food?

Brian Brushwood Oh my Gosh! I think you opened the wrong clip here. This is clearly the episode where we [indiscernible] (88:17)

Leo Laporte Made the kid throw up? This isn’t one where you made the kid throw up, is it?

Brian Brushwood No, no, no, this is him giving up his vegetarianism after two years and we did it in style.

Leo Laporte And it looks like he is eating bacon.

Brian Brushwood Oh yeah, no we got all the Rudy’s barbeque, Austin has phenomenal barbeque.

Leo Laporte I have to say I really enjoyed the barbeque. Is this the dolphin that everybody has been telling me about? Right there is that the one?

Brian Brushwood Oh you mean this guy right here? This is our tribute to the dolphin.

Leo Laporte To the dolphin boy alright. And here’s your guess and you are bidding now for - what was the movie?

Brian Brushwood This is on Toy Story 3 and it got up to $50 actually it went for, half his budget went to Toy Story 3.

Leo Laporte Now does it have to be the biggest movie of the summer or…?

Brian Brushwood No, no no. You total up, for example I bought all my movies cheap, I think I spent most like $18 on a movie but I got eight movies. Now meanwhile Justin, he got Iron Man 2, spent half his money on it and so far it’s looking like a good call but like next week we got Prince of Persia and I got Robin Hood this week and Sex and the City 2. I actually find myself rooting for Sex and the City 2 which is weird for me.

Leo Laporte I want a disc.

Brian Brushwood Are you going to…

Leo Laporte I don’t care if you root for it. You’re not going to go see it though, are you?

Brian Brushwood You know what, I may, I may send the missus, I was like you ought to go watch that Sex and the City movie, I’m sure it’ll be amazing.

Leo Laporte Yeah send the missus. My missus made me watch it – two hours of my life I will never get back just the most horrible, horrible – my eyes are still burning. but it is a good insight into the mind of the woman.

Brian Brushwood Oh you are talking about right?

Leo Laporte Yes. Jason Calacanis always great to see you, thank you for being here. Jason is of course the CEO of Mahalo, also and where all of those shows that look just like our show…

Jason Calacanis Yes.

Leo Laporte …live, and well why wouldn’t they live there? Wait a minute, you see he’s stealing from you.

Jason Calacanis That’s not mine. Who is that guy?

Leo Laporte I don’t know, that’s, it looks like exactly.

Jason Calacanis We are doing the non-tech shows.

Leo Laporte Okay.

Jason Calacanis This week in stamp collecting.

Leo Laporte This is week in – too many s’s – there we go, this week in stamp collecting also known as startups, this week in iPad a whole bunch of great shows. And Kevin Pollak’s chat show which won the Streamy.

Jason Calacanis It won a Streamy, best production. It’s really good quality.

Leo Laporte God I have such a crush on Justine Bateman.

Jason Calacanis She’s like been tweeting with me and I am like Oh my God, I got Justine Bateman is like tweeting me.

Leo Laporte She’s a big twitterer, she loves to tweet.

Jason Calacanis This would have been huge in 1997 for me. It’s still really cool. Don’t get me wrong.

Leo Laporte I always thought of you as Shneider, so it’s perfect.

Jason Calacanis Absolutely.

Leo Laporte Is that the show she was on?

Jason Calacanis No, she was on Growing Pains.

Leo Laporte Growing Pains.

Jason Calacanis Family Ties.

Leo Laporte Family Ties.

Jason Calacanis Yes, what would they do baby without us.

Leo Laporte Thank you, Jason. Thank you all for being here. We do a few shows, you can watch them all at including NSFW and including twitch and there are some more to come and of course they are all on iTunes and the Zune store and if you want to watch it live, Our show this WEEK in TECH, the flagship show, is done live at Sunday afternoon at 3:00 pm pacific, 6:00 pm eastern. That’s 22 on your UTC.

Jason Calacanis You got to watch it live, like it’s the only show that I watched the way I use to watch TV. With the kids are running around I always turn it on and just enjoy, you know, I pay attention for a while and then I go over and play with the kids. And I love the live experience, it’s different that way.

Leo Laporte You don’t have to pay attention,is what he’s saying.

Brian Brushwood Which is nonstop, it’s good Sunday afternoon listening.

Leo Laporte Good Sunday afternoon listening everybody. Thank you all for being here, we will see you next week. Another TWiT is in the can.

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