TWiT 267/Transcript

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Episode 267


This transcript is provided by our friends at Pods in Print

Introduction Netcasts you love, from people you trust. This is TWiT.

Leo Laporte Audio bandwidth for this WEEK in TECH is provided by Winamp. Subscribe to TWiT and all your favorite podcasts with the ultimate media player. Download it for free at Video bandwidth for TWiT is provided by Cachefly at

This is TWiT, this WEEK in TECH, Episode 267, recorded September 26, 2010: You Can't Say No to Oprah.

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It’s time for TWiT, this WEEK in TECH, the show that covers the latest technology news. Joining us in studio today and very pleased to say Veronica Belmont.

Veronica Belmont Hello.

Leo Laporte Of Core and Tekzilla. Hello, Veronica.

Veronica Belmont Thank you for having us, and thank you for the wine.

Leo Laporte That’s Sword and Laser.

Veronica Belmont Sword and Laser. Yes.

Leo Laporte And what else you need credit for?

Veronica Belmont Oh, that’s about it right now, I think.

Leo Laporte I got pretty much to everybody at Buzz Out Loud work in here except you and Molly. We’re working on you.

Veronica Belmont I’m very excited for Jason.

Leo Laporte Yeah, we’re thrilled to get Jason.

Veronica Belmont It’s going to be – it’s going to be great.

Leo Laporte He starts tomorrow.

Veronica Belmont He’s a great guy and he’s extremely talented and I think he’s going to be a huge addition to the team.

Leo Laporte Love Jason. Jas – we’re talking about Jason Howell.

Veronica Belmont Yes.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Ryan Block Not Thurston Howell.

Leo Laporte Not Thurston Howell. He will be here later. That’s Ryan Block. Hello, Ryan. Good to see you from

Ryan Block Thank you.

Leo Laporte And

Ryan Block Yes.

Leo Laporte This is the new hipster thing to do. You have this web calling card. You got one too, Veronica?

Veronica Belmont I do. It’s more like a splash page. It’s like a dedicated homepage for all of your stuff. Ryan and I are both advisors for the site.

Ryan Block Yes. There’s so much disclosure that needs to go on here.

Veronica Belmont I know these days.

Leo Laporte Are you investors or just advisors?

Veronica Belmont Just advisors.

Ryan Block But they – so Tony Conrad, who is one of the co-founders is investor in my company. He’s on my Board.

Leo Laporte Oh cool.

Ryan Block But it’s still a great product.

Leo Laporte Oh cool.

Ryan Block Even despite the fact that I’m – I guess legally obligated to...

Leo Laporte I always want to say if you’re – if you’re on the Board of something, yeah, I’m on the Board of that.

Ryan Block No, he’s on my Board.

Leo Laporte Also here, Kara Swisher from her apartment. It looks like somebody’s licked the camera with peanut butter tongs.

Kara Swisher Yeah, I’m going to get that – you got there. Sorry, I have a better one, I just didn’t have time to…

Leo Laporte That’s fine, that’s fine., great to see you again, Kara.

Kara Swisher Hey, it’s from – it’s from – I’m from the cottage where All Things Digital has its headquarters.

Leo Laporte That’s it right there.

Kara Swisher Indeed.

Leo Laporte The Digital Cottage. So, boy there’s a lot to talk about this week. But I guess we should start with Mike Arrington and AngelGate.

Veronica Belmont Oh, boy, huh?

Leo Laporte This week, Mike published a story about not being invited to a party. And actually, the title of the story was – I thought pretty good. It was…

Veronica Belmont ‘So a blogger walks into a bar.’

Leo Laporte ‘So a blogger walks into a bar.’ The restaurant Bin 38 actually, not exactly a bar.

Veronica Belmont It’s a wine bar, yeah.

Leo Laporte It’s a wine bar, okay. I haven’t been there, I am not that hip.

Veronica Belmont I haven’t been there either.

Leo Laporte Have you been there, Ryan?

Ryan Block I was at a meeting, yes.

Leo Laporte Okay, well there you go. Now we know he’s an angel. So apparently, Mike gets a tip that – and this is all – this is the story as Mike tells. Mike gets a tip that a bunch of Super Angels are going to meet. What’s a super angel, Kara? I don’t – what?

Kara Swisher A super angel, there’s Mike right here. So it’s Mike –

Veronica Belmont Share with us.

Leo Laporte Lauren Feldman, Mike’s…

Kara Swisher I can’t put my hand his butt.

Leo Laporte You just can’t bring yourself to do that, huh?

Kara Swisher Can’t get myself to do that. But it’s Super Angels – it’s just angels who are slightly smaller than VCs. I mean some of them have 30 to $40 million. So it’s an extensive amounts of money.

Ryan Block You know, I was actually talking about this on Twitter the other day. Can we just make a pact, I guess, not to use this term anymore?

Leo Laporte Super Angel?

Ryan Block Yeah, I mean – I think there’s kind of –

Leo Laporte Is it a meaningless word?

Ryan Block Well, there’s kinds of – and this is – let the insider baseball begin, because this is all investment world. So…

Leo Laporte Did you know I didn’t even talk about the story on my radio show because nobody in the real world could care less Mike Arrington, TechCrunch, Super Angels, Ron Conway, Bin 38 – it’s not – it is totally just by default, by definition inside baseball.

Kara Swisher Let’s move on, then.

Leo Laporte Well, we got to do this a story, because this is…

Kara Swisher Why, why though, I mean seriously, this is just bull-[bleep]. It’s just like – it’s so insider. There’s words you could use since I live in [indiscernible] (5:19). But it’s just not – look. Today, they put up a post saying it may or may not have been actually anything happening. And I think it’s just a –

Leo Laporte So, he said there was a party there, he went. I can’t believe it, he goes to the party even though he told that you’re not going to be invited. There’s nine people. He says I’m good friends with all of them. He walks in and says, ‘hey, here’s what you buy me a beer.’ They say nothing, according to him. He walks out.

Kara Swisher Well, here’s where the problem is, he’s good friends. I mean why’s he good friends with people he covers?

Leo Laporte That’s problem one. That’s a good point.

Kara Swisher And secondly it’s not named, the people aren’t named. So if he’s going to allege all this collusion and very serious – make serious allegations, then put in – be a reporter and put the names down. Why aren’t the names there?

Leo Laporte He was applauded – it’s interesting, because it was – Dave McClure, who says he was there, 500 Hats – says, first of all no collusion, we were just shooting the breeze. And this is typical B.S. Henry Blodget, who has maybe a checkered past as a reporter…

Kara Swisher Yeah, yeah, let’s take Henry Blodget’s word for it.

Leo Laporte Says, this is great reporting. Some people think this is what a blogger reporter should do. This is journalistic enterprise. Kara, you obviously don’t feel that way.

Kara Swisher Well, I just – I’d like to see some follow-up there, okay? Who are the people there? Did they actually collude? Let’s do some very serious reporting. Instead it’s I’ll scratch your back, you scratch mine.

Leo Laporte It’s purely an allegation.

Kara Swisher They’re all appearing at the same conference tomorrow, they’re all like best friends now, they all keep publishing each other’s emails back and forth. It’s so insider as to be – I don’t know how deep, it’s just – I don’t know.

Veronica Belmont Let me – I have a question for all of you guys. Since I’m not really up-to-date on all this kind of stuff, it’s not really an area I used to have a hell lot of attention to. But my question I guess for either Kara or Ryan or Leo would be – is this something that’s always kind of assumed to be going on anyway and then just be…?

Leo Laporte It’s highly illegal.

Veronica Belmont I understand that it’s illegal. Do people who kind of assume that this activity goes on behind the scenes all the time?

Ryan Block There’s a fine line, there’s a fine line. Investors talk, entrepreneurs talk, everybody talks. Because you have to kind of understand what’s going on and what’s happening in the market. But if the conversation gets to very specific pricing and terms around very specific deals with specific people, that’s when it can cross over.

Leo Laporte Or, as Mike alleged, where they’re saying we’re going to keep the valuations low so we make more money and we are going to ace Paul Graham and [indiscernible] (7:27) out because he’s doing too well. All allegations, all unfounded, you’re right, Kara and I guess –

Kara Swisher Then, let’s do some serious reporting. Today, they go – oh, well let’s just leave it behind [indiscernible] (7:39)…

Ryan Block So, Kara what I’m – what I’m curious about is I mean obviously you’re very – very much in this sphere of reporting. I mean I’m not so much in the reporting world anymore, but if I was, I’d be in the gadget side of things and not so much here.

Kara Swisher Right. You do an excellent job.

Ryan Block Well, thank you. But no, this is absolutely your world. So what have you heard? What if – I mean I know that you’d probably done some follow-up reporting.

Kara Swisher I have done some follow-up reporting and it just seems like it was a very similar to the national – you know, when the VCs get together for their annual things. It sounds like a group bitching and moaning. It does not sound like a colluding – that’s what it sounds like to me. It sounds like a group of people that got together and bitching and moaning about various things. And again – did you see Ron Conway’s letter about it?

Ryan Block I did, yeah. And then his follow-up letter as well.

Kara Swisher Oh, I’m sorry I said all those things.

Ryan Block They – he published that one this afternoon.

Leo Laporte Okay, so tell us what he said. We got to know.

Kara Swisher I’m so sorry, I’m so sorry for saying those things.

Ryan Block Why don’t you throw out the original Ron Conway letter, and then I will throw out the follow-up and then I will also disclose that Ron Conway is an investor in my company.

Kara Swisher Yeah, okay.

Leo Laporte So – and actually that’s why you’re kind of an interesting person to talk to on this, Ryan, because you’ve had to go out and deal with these people.

Ryan Block Yeah, I know probably at least a couple of people who were at that meeting or have had meetings with those people. And I’m sure that at least one, if not more [indiscernible] (8:59)…

Leo Laporte In gdgt?

Ryan Block Well, yeah, as the Angel is in my company. I don’t know for sure who else is there, but I have a feeling that there’s probably at least one other person there who, if they’re not in company, we’ve talked to them and almost have them in our company. So I definitely –

Leo Laporte Do you worry as an entrepreneur that they might be doing this to screw you?

Ryan Block Well, like I said, I mean investors talk and that’s a given entrepreneurs talk and that’s a given. It’s really – I mean at least in my particular experience – and I’ve worked with some really amazing investors who I admire greatly and there’s nobody in our round – both of our rounds of funding that we raised, that I feel would ever have done something like that. But I mean if there was ever that sense, I would have walked away from the deal. But it can be hard, if it’s going on – backroom conversations, it’s hard to know for sure.

Veronica Belmont Or in public wine bars.

Kara Swisher Public wine bars. I have a feeling, it sounds like a very typical gathering. These people bitch and moan about various things. First of all, there’s a million VCs out there right now competing for some very hot deals. So first of all – even if these people colluded – if they have, and I’d like to know if they did, if TechCrunch is alleging this, they are going to allege it, I’d like to see a follow up on it. But if they were in fact just bitching about it, I just don’t think – I think its very hard to collude in this industry gives there is VCs, there are super VCs, there are angel investors, there are just minor regular people investors of which they are numerous, I’d like to know what they actually planned on doing it in a organized fashion.

Ryan Block Okay, so I don’t think we’d given any contact so as to what’s going on here –

Kara Swisher Okay.

Ryan Block I think we just assumed everybody knows it’s going on. So okay, first you got these Super Angels that is a term I, I find to be very weird because it’s basically in the investment world you have two kinds of investors, you’ve VCs and you have Angels. VCs raise a fund from a variety of sources, they collect tens of millions of dollars and then they invest that money. And they get paid on management fees and on carry, which means if that if they sell a company they get a percentage of that sale in addition to the management fee of actually being the VC and holding that cash. An Angel is someone who invests their own money personally. You have a million dollars in a bank or whatever and you dole that out however you please. These term Super Angels I think kind of come up for a really high profile angel investors, some of whom have actually gone out and raised a $10 million fund or $20 million fund, and who kind of – I think at that point you’re a VC right. If you’ve raised a fund –

Kara Swisher Yeah.

Ryan Block You are not a angel anymore. If you are not investing your own money, you’re investing somebody else’s money, you’re not an angel.

Leo Laporte Angel means I – it’s my money, VC means it’s a bunch of people’s money.

Ryan Block Yes.

Leo Laporte Got it.

Ryan Block So, exactly. Not your money.

Leo Laporte Not my money.

Ryan Block But you are paid in order to invest that money. So –

Ryan Block So this whole –

Leo Laporte So these Super Angels have funds or they’re all investing just their own money?

Ryan Block Well, the term Super Angel I think has come to encompass both high profile angels as well as these angels with funds. So angels who are not investing their own money anymore. So Dave McClure is one of these guys, there are I think a lot of the people who were at that meeting have raised funds. Ron Conway is someone who was a very prolific angel investor and now he has got a funds and he is operating –

Leo Laporte So who is responded to these allegations? Dave McClure said yes I was there nothing. Did Ron Conway respond?

Kara Swisher Yes he wrote – he wasn’t there he was, his partner was there, has gone twice to these dinners by the way, FYI.

Leo Laporte Yeah, it seems to me if you are going to collude you don’t have it in the public place. You have it in the back, you are going to get right Veronica.

Veronica Belmont That’s something that that just kind of busting about the whole thing.

Leo Laporte You know you have it in the backroom somewhere no one can see you.

Veronica Belmont Kind of private office.

Leo Laporte You don’t have it somewhere were Mike Arrington can walk in and ask for a beer

Kara Swisher Just walks on in. Ron just wrote this sort of angry Ron note, I’ve gotten one myself in my life, so I have seen them before. But you know where he was like healthier than now, it was all mixed up. Oh, by the way, Dave Lee was there too who was one of their partners. So you know, I don’t know. I think it’s just one these tempest in a teapot that if there is something there I am curious why there isn’t a follow up and secondly why are all these people in panel at a conference.

Leo Laporte Do you think this is to promote Tech Disrupt?

Kara Swisher I don’t know, what do you think?

Veronica Belmont I don’t know.

Ryan Block I mean it calls – it calls, it’s a very serious allegation. It calls too many peoples’ credibility –

Leo Laporte It’s a crappy thing to say if all you’re doing is really promoting that you’re having an event.

Ryan Block And the people who are on that panel have nothing to benefit by – by being subject to this rumor.

Veronica Belmont No.

Ryan Block Dave McClure is not going to have his reputation bolstered by being part of this.

Leo Laporte Even, yes –

Ryan Block Even if it’s not – when [indiscernible] (13:30)…

Leo Laporte It’s a smear. When did you [indiscernible] (13:32) your wife. It’s a –

Kara Swisher That’s Dave –

Ryan Block That’s one of the things he said.

Kara Swisher That’s what Dave said in his title. I mean, the thing is – tomorrow they will all be pals and that’s a fact, that the horrible thing about this whole thing is that – is that tomorrow – this whole circus –

Leo Laporte Mike is an angel himself, isn’t he?

Kara Swisher Well, I don’t know, I don’t know.

Ryan Block Not anymore.

Leo Laporte He says he divested all investments.

Ryan Block Yeah, he announced a couple of years ago that he was getting out of angel.

Kara Swisher The fact of the matter is tomorrow they’d all be piling around and leaking each other information and scratching each other’s back. So it’s just like, the whole thing is like a ridiculous Worldwide Wrestling, you know what I mean, on everybody’s part.

Leo Laporte So it’s manipulative.

Kara Swisher I don’t know what it is, I don’t know why they do it. I really – it feels like a Worldwide Wrestling.

Leo Laporte Let’s talk – another of TechCrunch story. The Facebook phone. So you know –

Ryan Block Well I, I –

Leo Laporte I know this is your field, so let me ask you, Ryan, is that correct?

Ryan Block Hold on before we move on –

Leo Laporte Go ahead alright angel, angel investor.

Ryan Block I do just want to say one thing and that is that he hires Veronica like ‘oh! kill me’.

Veronica Belmont So close –

Ryan Block No, you know I do think –

Leo Laporte Do you guys talk about this over breakfast, is this like –

Veronica Belmont Yes.

Ryan Block Yes, I’m so sorry.

Veronica Belmont We did today.

Leo Laporte Well yeah, you were prepping for the show.

Ryan Block Not usual. I mean the thing about this and the reason why this is such a contentious story whether it’s true or not is, I think there are two things. But the primary bit is basically that these kinds of conversations can, in a moment and without even intentionally you know go in that direction can instantaneously become borderline illegal in terms of these kinds of, I mean, you know they are sitting down with like a group of nefarious [indiscernible] (15:10) investors and saying we are going to collude. I don’t really think that’s what happened but if you get a bunch of people together and you do start talking very specifics, very specific things about very specific deals that can, if not be illegal, it can be highly unethical. If it just goes just the wrong way. And it’s very easy I think for this conversation to happen that way. So it’s possible that may be that’s where the story came from and then it kind of started to sound like people tried to distance themselves from it and –

Veronica Belmont My God, this could be taken way off –

Leo Laporte Is it true that Mike represents a kind of journalist, blogger journalist who – in the old days in New York Times or Washington Post, All the President’s Men, you had to have two sources before you went with the story.

Ryan Block So he claimed he had three sources here.

Leo Laporte He said he had three sources?

Ryan Block He said immediately after that meeting two people who he saw there called him and then he called the third.

Leo Laporte Jesus.

Ryan Block And, and he said that –

Leo Laporte They are all just, they are all just, it’s wrestling.

Kara Swisher His friends, his friends.

Leo Laporte Hey, you know, what he did?

Ryan Block So, yeah, I don’t know, I mean, I think, I don’t think that Mike would have published this without serious consideration because even if it is really good for Disrupt and I mean obviously there is a lot of accusations you can make about those kinds of relationships and stuff. It’s not – it’s not doing anybody any good, you know Mike is not going to make his friendships with any of these people better by having reported this.

Leo Laporte This is for people who don’t know Disrupt is Mike’s kind of version of demo conference where entrepreneurs come to demo their news, ideas in hopes of raising money from these very same angels.

Ryan Block That was TechCrunch 50. Disrupt is now –

Leo Laporte This is not the same?

Ryan Block There is that element in Disrupt. But Disrupt I think is more – it’s half that, half kind of panels, fireside chats, executive discussions –

Leo Laporte But it is about bringing entrepreneurs and investors together.

Ryan Block Yeah, yeah, that is a big element of it. I mean it’s a little bit like, like Kara’s conference which is amazing and she does the bacon, the industry –

Leo Laporte The D-conference.

Ryan Block Yes, that is the industry event but his is a little bit more I think you know start-up centric.

Leo Laporte Okay.

Kara Swisher Yeah, it’s different.

Ryan Block It’s next week too.

Kara Swisher Yeah, it’s a very good conference.

Ryan Block Video conference, yes it’s a very good conference.

Leo Laporte Are you going to go? Are you going go?

Kara Swisher That conference is good, it used to be called TechCrunch 50. It was very good when it was done, they are for startups.

Veronica Belmont So how about –

Kara Swisher Especially it used to focus on startups.

Leo Laporte Are you guys both are going to Disrupt?

Ryan Block Yeah, I’m going to try to stop by for a bit.

Leo Laporte Kara, are you going?

Kara Swisher No, I think John is going, [indiscernible] (17:42).

Leo Laporte Okay.

Veronica Belmont So how about that Google-China situation?

Leo Laporte What’s the latest with Google in China, I didn’t even see?

Veronica Belmont Apparently, China has been spying on our Googles.

Leo Laporte Oh! No.

Veronica Belmont On our Gmails.

Ryan Block Spying on your Googles.

Veronica Belmont Spying on our Googles.

Leo Laporte Yeah, in fact some people are getting banners, big red, appropriately colored banners.

Veronica Belmont I posted about this on Buzz and I got a lot of responses from people who had seen that, on their Gmail.

Leo Laporte It says, what does it say on the banner?

Veronica Belmont It says that there is a possibility that there has been an intrusion on your Gmail by –

Leo Laporte The Chinese might be looking at your mail.

Veronica Belmont Which, wouldn’t you just kind of freak out a little bit if you saw that, I would. I didn’t get that luckily. But then there are people are encouraged to change their passwords and kind of make sure that they have everything in order and see what kind of –

Ryan Block You know, that could be a wise decision is, especially considering the situation is not new and related specifically to China is to basically put a policy in place where if you are going to China then you need to check a little box that says I’m going to be accessing my emails to and from China and then otherwise you’re just completely blocked.

Leo Laporte Were the people Veronica –

Veronica Belmont But I don’t, these people were not in China.

Leo Laporte These people you are talking to that – they said they saw this Veronica they weren’t –

Veronica Belmont They were state side.

Leo Laporte It was somebody from China.

Ryan Block That’s what I’m saying, if you are – if your IP because Google keeps IP logs.

Leo Laporte I love that at the bottom of the Gmail you’ll get a notice that says somebody from this weird IP was accessing.

Ryan Block Yeah.

Leo Laporte This is just a big annoying scary version of that.

Ryan Block Exactly, so Google keeps IP logs of all accesses of your account so you can see if anything kind of weird or untoward is going, and if you are U.S. user, you should not be able to access your account from a Chinese IP address.

Veronica Belmont From a Chinese IP address, got it.

Ryan Block Unless you explicitly state I’m going to China, please unlock this for China.

Leo Laporte I see. So they would block all Chinese access to your Google unless it was you.

Ryan Block Yeah, because at this point like there is absolutely no reason why anyone from China should be able to even attempt to access my email address. Especially knowing what we know about these intrusions.

Veronica Belmont Yeah.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Ryan Block They need to lock that out.

Leo Laporte It’s a good idea.

Veronica Belmont It’s pretty scary.

Ryan Block They need to lock it off.

Veronica Belmont Well, I mean Google has been having a hard time lately with privacy intrusions in general, so that doesn’t really inspire a lot of confidence that they can prevent this kind of thing from happening.

Leo Laporte Says, warning, warning Will Robinson we believe your account was recently accessed from China.

Veronica Belmont If it said warning Will Robinson that would be so much better. If it actually said that that’d be great.

Leo Laporte He will go, who’s this Will Robinson, that’s not me.

Veronica Belmont Danger

Leo Laporte Danger Will Robinson

Veronica Belmont Danger Will Robinson, danger, the Chinese are reading your e-mail.

Leo Laporte That’s a strange thing for Google to do. I mean would they do that if Romanian – if it’s – warning, somebody from Romania just asked…

Veronica Belmont I think it’s very specific to their issues with China and the Chinese government in general.

Leo Laporte That’s what I think. Seems like it’s a little bit like, okay China take this.

Veronica Belmont Yeah, so they are putting a big, big red spotlight right on the issue, which I think is important. But I don’t think they would do that if they were getting IP intrusions from – from anywhere else.

Kara Swisher Well I think that Chinese intrusions are quite active and regular and it’s a major country and it’s – you know, Romania isn’t quite – we’re not quite as worried about what Romania hacks..

Veronica Belmont Well we are just using that as an example.

Kara Swisher What I’m saying is I think…

Veronica Belmont Canada is invading your email!

Leo Laporte Canada, you wouldn’t – yeah, I don’t to have banner on.

Ryan Block Any country with state controlled net access, you probably want to [indiscernible] (20:52)…

Leo Laporte Here’s a Chinese webpage with your picture on it.

Veronica Belmont Oh great.

Leo Laporte Look at that. You see. Warning. They are collecting – no, that’s I don’t know.

Veronica Belmont Yeah, that’s my faky naky shot. I’m not actually naked in that picture.

Leo Laporte You’re wearing a tube top, I understand.

Veronica Belmont I’m wearing a tube top.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I understand.

Veronica Belmont The Bui Brothers, they do good work.

Leo Laporte They do.

Veronica Belmont Yeah.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Ryan Block That’s your story anyway. I’ve seen the lower half of that photograph.

Veronica Belmont That’s a story I’ve come up with, yes.

Leo Laporte Be very careful. I worked with a woman who had nude pictures taken of her and then cropped it from here…

Veronica Belmont I’m familiar with that story, yeah.

Ryan Block We all know this person is.

Veronica Belmont Well let’s – yeah, we don’t need to…

Leo Laporte And she used that picture cropped but what she didn’t realize that Photoshop maintained a thumbnail of the full image and of course they leaked that to the Internet.

Veronica Belmont Not cool. Yeah, that’s awful.

Leo Laporte Poor girl.

Veronica Belmont Worst nightmare.

Leo Laporte Yeah, really a bad idea. So don’t get naked pictures taken of you. I have many, and so far no one has released them.

Ryan Block Oh I’ve seen them Leo, they are fantastic.

Veronica Belmont Oh we’ve all seen them.

Leo Laporte Oh really? Oh good, I’m very relieved.

Veronica Belmont They are very artistically done.

Leo Laporte Artistic.

Veronica Belmont Yeah, that’s what I appreciate about the most. It really – your inner light comes through in those pictures and shines right into the camera. Can I have some more wine?

Leo Laporte Yeah please. After that you deserve some more wine.

Veronica Belmont Yeah, after that mental image.

Leo Laporte A reward for putting up with that. Let’s talk about Zynga a little bit. Zynga just rented the building that TechTV used be in.

Veronica Belmont Oh really?

Leo Laporte Not only did they rent it, they rented the whole thing. I think several hundred thousands square feet.

Kara Swisher So that’s down in the Potrero, right?

Leo Laporte It’s, yeah. It’s the Townsend building which has been, as far as to my knowledge, vacant since we left it.

Kara Swisher Yeah, I think that’s been the area that Mark owns a building in the area that he’s kept [indiscernible] (22:35) and now this is just nearby it.

Leo Laporte It’s right next to Adobe, Adobe is down there as well.

Kara Swisher Yeah, right, it’s absolutely right on that – there is a circle there but Mark has been located sort of nearby...

Leo Laporte Interesting.

Kara Swisher For a long time, he owns several buildings.

Leo Laporte 270,000 square feet.

Veronica Belmont You know, I have to say I was really not happy with the recent Mafia Wars promotion. Did you talk about that on the show?

Leo Laporte No, what happened? I didn’t see that.

Veronica Belmont About how they were like --

Ryan Block Gluing dollar bills to the sidewalk.

Veronica Belmont Gluing dollar bills with the mafia image on them all over the sidewalk.

Leo Laporte In San Francisco?

Veronica Belmont Yeah.

Ryan Block Yeah, everywhere.

Veronica Belmont Like hundreds of them.

Leo Laporte Is it even legal? I don’t think it’s…

Ryan Block No.

Veronica Belmont No, the city is actually suing them for the cost of the clean up.

Leo Laporte It’s also defacing the bills, you shouldn’t – you’re not supposed to do that either.

Veronica Belmont Like really Mafia Wars needs more promotion? I don’t think so. Can’t your money be spent somewhere else, I mean…

Leo Laporte It’s working for them, Zynga…

Ryan Block Well clearly it’s working for them because we’re talking about it right now on TWiT.

Veronica Belmont Oh curses!

Ryan Block They win again.

Leo Laporte You know, I don’t let myself be – frequently like this Errington article, you would like to just bury the story and not report it, but I don’t let that because you got to report what's going on, you can’t let…

Ryan Block Yeah. And you know that whole I love that knee-jerk reaction. Free publicity? No. That is actually not – that is so not accurate. And the whole – the whole concept that any press is good press, so not true.

Leo Laporte Yeah. So we’re giving them bad press?

Ryan Block Yeah, no they’re getting bad press. Screw Zynga for littering my sidewalks. You bastards.

Leo Laporte It’s not hurting them. Zynga which does FarmVille, YoVille, Mafia Wars, bunch of other Facebook programs…

Veronica Belmont Oh, I have been known to play the FarmVille.

Leo Laporte I played the – I had to actually go cold turkey on FarmVille. So I would…

Ryan Block I’m glad that Veronica quit.

Veronica Belmont Yeah.

Ryan Block She had withdrawals.

Leo Laporte Were you playing a lot? Do you see it was…

Veronica Belmont Then I found it on – when they came out on the iPhone, I got back into it, I haven’t told you, I’m sorry.

Ryan Block I’ve seen you playing it.

Leo Laporte Oh so sad when couples discover this…

Ryan Block You can’t keep anything from me.

Leo Laporte My wife gets mad because I play We Rule at the breakfast table, it’s not good.

Ryan Block No, that’s not.

Veronica Belmont Not appropriate.

Leo Laporte Office debut on Thursday, the intern. I like the little side thing, a little side nod to FarmVille, he’s sitting at the computer, he’s saying, oh I got to harvest my strawberries.

Veronica Belmont I miss that. Oh yeah.

Leo Laporte That’s FarmVille, right?

Veronica Belmont Yeah.

Leo Laporte They say they move one petabyte of data daily. That’s 1,000 terabytes of bandwidth a day. A day. They say they are buying 1,000 news servers a week.

Veronica Belmont No wonder they are going to need a giant office for all those tubes.

Leo Laporte No wonder they can afford to just glue dollar bills to the sidewalk. They are probably smoking – they are probably lighting their cigars. Mark Pincus is lighting his cigars with dollar bill – hundred dollar bills. One petabyte.

Ryan Block Let’s see if they can keep it up.

Veronica Belmont Yeah.

Leo Laporte You sound skeptical.

Veronica Belmont Well they are buying out a lot of game developers all over the world. They just bought a new German – I think they bought a German game company that they are...

Kara Swisher Yeah, [indiscernible] (25:28) this year.

Ryan Block Did everybody read that SFgate article?

Leo Laporte About?

Kara Swisher Yes.

Ryan Block It was…

Veronica Belmont FarmVillains.

Ryan Block Yeah, thank you, FarmVillains.

Veronica Belmont I missed that one.

Ryan Block I don’t know, it seem kind of poorly sourced if you ask me, I mean….

Leo Laporte What’s the thesis?

Ryan Block Didn’t seem to be enough – well, as you probably couldn’t tell from the title of FarmVillains…

Leo Laporte Oh, this is – no, this wasn’t SFgate, this was SF Weekly, this is the one where the people were…

Ryan Block Oh, yeah, yeah, that’s …

Leo Laporte Yeah, this was the former – disgruntled former employee.

Ryan Block Yes. Basically saying friends don’t let friends work at Zynga, and Zynga is an evil company, Zynga is the opposite of Google, which is do evil. Interesting of course that Google is investing…

Leo Laporte The negative on FarmVille, and I’ve said this before is that it’s not a good – Veronica, you are a gamer, it’s not a good game.

Veronica Belmont It’s got a lot of parts to it that don’t flow very well.

Leo Laporte It’s social compulsion.

Veronica Belmont Yeah.

Leo Laporte It’s –you get compelled – it’s OCD.

Veronica Belmont Which I guess is one way to drag people back, but I find myself not playing for weeks and weeks and weeks and I don’t really care. Just some people get that compulsive behavior setting in where they need to go back…

Leo Laporte But if you are – this is where you get in trouble, and this is I think that what's it built on is if you start now cleaning somebody’s farm like your mother, you sister, your best friend’s farm, and they give you a pig and you give them – pretty soon you can’t pull out.

Veronica Belmont What it is is it’s like the whole chore theory and a lot of games succumb to this, people say this of Warcraft all the time where they are essentially…

Leo Laporte Yeah, Warcraft is Gold Farming.

Veronica Belmont Essentially playing a game, well, no, but they are essentially playing a game where you are doing a bunch of chores…

Leo Laporte Right.

Ryan Block Well that’s my problem with WoW. That’s why I don’t play WoW.

Leo Laporte Fish, fish, fish, run, run, run, fish, fish, fish, run, run, run.

Veronica Belmont And there is other elements of the game, but that’s something that people kind of latch on to when they get to that compulsive circle.

Leo Laporte You’re still playing?

Veronica Belmont I’ve been playing the Beta a little bit but I’ve been a little too busy with…

Leo Laporte ‘For the horde!’

Veronica Belmont ‘For the horde!’ Little too busy with StarCraft II and [indiscernible] (27:21) right now to get into the wild...

Leo Laporte You don’t play StarCraft II online, do you?

Veronica Belmont I’ve been training with Tom occasionally actually, but we are…

Leo Laporte Training?

Veronica Belmont We are not very good in multi-player yet. So we are practicing against each other to try to…

Leo Laporte You can’t – you can’t compete.

Veronica Belmont No, I mean, people have been playing the original StarCraft for 10 years.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Veronica Belmont They’ve got it down like unbelievably fast.

Leo Laporte They know all the build orders are in there, they are built into their synapses.

Veronica Belmont And while things have changed a little bit in StarCraft II, not so much that this is going to affect their flow at all.

Leo Laporte I’ve watched some videos on YouTube and I realized, no. I’m going to play the Campaign by myself against the AI. And that’s all I’m going to do because I can’t play real people because they’ll kill me!

Veronica Belmont It’s really one of the better campaigns in a game I’ve played in a long time.

Ryan Block I have a feeling Kara over there rolling her eyes. ‘I’m a Halo person, thank you.’

Kara Swisher I don’t play, I have children. I don’t play any games.

Veronica Belmont I’m essentially a child at heart, so it works out well for me.

Kara Swisher Yes, my kids play games, but not those games.

Leo Laporte What games do they play? They’re little.

Kara Swisher No, they play the Wii, the Wii. Like Lego, Star Wars, I don’t know.

Veronica Belmont You can tell them that I said they’re not real gamers.

Leo Laporte Are you going to get a Move – Sony…

Kara Swisher They are going to have the Natal, they’ll play the Natal when they get it.

Leo Laporte I think Kinect is awesome. Now I’m going to recuse you because Amber does – Amber, sorry.

Kara Swisher Oh, here we go.

Ryan Block Someone quickly edit that before it hits the air.

Leo Laporte I worked for a woman named Amber for many years on TV and I don’t know why but you kind of – you remind me of her. But Veronica – I used to call her Victoria, so I’m actually getting better.

Kara Swisher It’s getting closer – kind of.

Leo Laporte I don’t even know anybody.

Ryan Block Maybe one of these years he’s going to get it.

Kara Swisher Why don’t you just call that girl – that lady?

Leo Laporte That woman over there.

Kara Swisher The lady over there.

Leo Laporte That lady over there. And I forgot what I was going to say.

Veronica Belmont Something – we were talking – oh, we were talking about you going to recuse me because I work on a Sony product.

Leo Laporte I’m going to recuse you because you work for a Sony product called Course, so we won’t ask you. But isn’t that Move thing a piece of crap?


Ryan Block Well, I mean, I think maybe I have to recuse myself because if I say yes then…

Leo Laporte I think it’s a piece of crap and I don’t mind – we – they brought it up here, Ben brought it up here from the San Francisco office and played a couple of games with it, it’s like the Wii but you are attaching it to a like harder core game and it just – I’m excited about Kinect and…

Veronica Belmont But what games did you – can I talk a little bit about it, because I mean I have used it pretty extensively.

Leo Laporte You can say anything you want, you can defend it if you want, but people should know that you work for Sony and so that maybe, you know, if you don’t want to say anything, you don’t have to. But you like it?

Veronica Belmont I do actually like it.

Leo Laporte Look we’ve disclaimed it. Now you can say what you think.

Veronica Belmont I have played some really fun games on it.

Leo Laporte Would you say you hated it if you hated it?

Veronica Belmont Yeah. No, no, I couldn’t say I hated it. But I can say that I have had a really fun time playing…

Leo Laporte What games?

Veronica Belmont Like Sport Champions, playing the gladiator level.

Leo Laporte Pfft.

Veronica Belmont Did you try the gladiator game?

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Veronica Belmont Dude, it’s so awesome. You can like, shield bash people, whatever.

Leo Laporte Shield bash.

Veronica Belmont It’s like my World of Warcraft fantasies coming true in real life, like I could actually hit people with swords.

Leo Laporte It would be fine if I had a shield.

Veronica Belmont You can use the second controller as a shield.

Leo Laporte But no, you have a Wii-mote with a globe all it, that ball on it.

Veronica Belmont Well you can do like [indiscernible] (30:33) and stuff. There are some good games on it.

Leo Laporte I guess I’m not much of a gamer. I just – I wasn’t impressed, and I thought, this is too much like the Wii.

Veronica Belmont Frankly, I play PC games more than anything else, so. You know how I roll.

Leo Laporte But I am excited about Kinect, which you call Natal, Kara, because you’re in the inside.

Kara Swisher Oh yeah, sorry…

Veronica Belmont She’s old school.

Kara Swisher No, we – it’s right, it’s Kinect, I’m sorry. We called it – we demoed it at D this year. In fact, my son played it. But…

Leo Laporte It’s fun, isn’t it?

Kara Swisher Yeah, it looks – well, I look like a dork doing it. But it was…

Ryan Block Oh, everybody looks like a dork. Don’t worry.

Leo Laporte That’s one of the problems with these – with all of these, with the Wii, with the Move, and with Kinect, is you can’t help but look dorky playing it.

Ryan Block Absolutely.

Kara Swisher Yeah. Yeah. My [indiscernible] (31:07) looked pretty good, though.

Leo Laporte I think we’re just going to get over that. I mean people play it socially. The Wii was very popular as a…

Veronica Belmont Any technology that makes gaming more immersive, I’m fine with.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Veronica Belmont I’m just happy the direction that gaming is going in. Like, I think we’re making a lot of leaps and bounds in recent years to make it a true kind of environment that you’re living in the virtual space. And I think it’s amazing.

Ryan Block It’s good for some games, but not for all.

Leo Laporte I just like the way that Kinect uses my whole body. So a sword – a shield bash would be like that, and the sword – but you don’t have a controller, so it’s using your whole body.

Veronica Belmont Well, you would use your whole body with Move, too.

Leo Laporte Yeah, but you have to have the controller in your hand.

Veronica Belmont Yeah, well wouldn’t you have a real sword in your hand? Like, what, you’re just not going to hold on to anything when you’re doing? All right, I can’t be balanced about this, I’m sorry.

Leo Laporte Yeah, because I have a good imagination. And then not only that, but you got the shield, you got the sword, but then you can leap if somebody sweeps

Veronica Belmont Yeah, and the ball senses when you are jumping up and down too

Leo Laporte The ball senses when you are jumping up and down?

Veronica Belmont Yeah.

Kara Swisher You know, I’d rather just watch Spartacus Blood and Sand.

Leo Laporte You like that show? Do you like that show?

Veronica Belmont And plus, it has buttons. I’m sorry.

Kara Swisher I love that show. I love that show.

Leo Laporte It’s on my Netflix streaming, I got to watch it.

Veronica Belmont You can’t play video games without buttons.

Kara Swisher I love that show, it’s a hell of a show.

Ryan Block Yes, you can.

Veronica Belmont No, you can’t.

Ryan Block Yes, you can.

Veronica Belmont No, you can’t.

Leo Laporte Go ahead, keep doing that, because I can then – I’ve got the switches now, go ahead.

Ryan Block Yeah, you can cycle it.

Leo Laporte Yes, you can. No you can’t. Yes, you can. No you can’t. Yes, you can. No you can’t.

Ryan Block You know, I hate to say, I haven’t actually spent any time with the Move yet. My partner Peter has, but I haven’t had an opportunity. So I don’t know.

Leo Laporte It was my first chance to play with it. It wasn’t like it was horrible. But it…

Ryan Block I like the Kinect, though. I have played with the Kinect.

Leo Laporte I thought the Kinect was fun.

Ryan Block Yeah, it was good.

Leo Laporte Because it was using my whole body and I felt like I was really jumping around.

Veronica Belmont Yeah.

Ryan Block I mean imagine where the Kinect is going to be in five years. It’s going to be unbelievable.

Leo Laporte How about 3D?

Veronica Belmont Hmm.

Ryan Block Skip. Ass. Move along.

Leo Laporte Interesting.

Veronica Belmont I don’t see 3D very well. I have a problem…

Leo Laporte Me too.

Veronica Belmont With focus.

Ryan Block I have a problem with not having a headache.

Veronica Belmont Yeah. And so it makes me really sick to try to look at it for a long time.

Ryan Block I think it’s just a – it’s a gimmick. There is this phrase in the HDTV world, and that is, TVs are not designed to be good. They’re designed to sell.

Leo Laporte Well, 3D is completely about selling TVs, isn’t it?

Ryan Block Absolutely.

Leo Laporte It’s like, well, you all bought your HDTV, what can we do to get you to buy another one?

Veronica Belmont Even I as someone who doesn’t see 3D very well and doesn’t necessarily enjoy it more than regular TV, I feel compelled now to buy my next TV to have it be 3D enabled, just because I feel like that’s – if I don’t, I’m selling myself short.

Leo Laporte I’m thinking specifically gaming. Is that going to save 3D?

Veronica Belmont You know, I think that gaming is better for me than movies, for some reason. Like, I’ve played like a few titles in 3D that I thought were fun, but yeah, I felt a little sick afterwards.

Ryan Block Part of the problem with movies is, so many of them are remastered – or I’m sorry, mastered and made 3D in post. Which is just pathetic. It’s so bad.

Veronica Belmont No, that’s bad. You’ve got to be shooting with like the [indiscernible] (33:49) camera or any of the 3D cameras.

Ryan Block I’m extremely bearish on 3D, it was a fad then, I think it’s a fad now. Go ahead and buy a TV that’s got 3D in it if you want.

Leo Laporte They don’t cost any more

Ryan Block But make sure that the 2D quality is where you want it to be because you’re not going to watch…

Kara Swisher Well, except some of the – like, I saw some sports stuff on 3D that I thought was terrific.

Leo Laporte Really?

Kara Swisher Some golfing, some masters. I thought it was kind of interesting to see the undulations and I thought it was kind of cool.

Leo Laporte World Cup was also in 3D.

Veronica Belmont I think certain things are very well suited for 3D. And those things include sports and probably video games. And I think that’s the two areas where 3D technology is really going to prove itself to the consumer market. But I don’t know if – and also animation. I think that’s another place.

Ryan Block I don’t know. You’re wearing these dorky glasses, they cost a lot of money…

Leo Laporte I think that’s a bad thing.

Veronica Belmont Dude, I look awesome in those glasses.

Leo Laporte Do you. Do you really?

Ryan Block Well, you look awesome in everything.

Veronica Belmont Aww.

Ryan Block But you’re wearing these stupid glasses that cost a ton of money, in some cases these 3D glasses cost $300 a pair, especially if they have the active shutters, you have to replace the batteries, you look stupid. And if you’re like me, they give you a headache.

Veronica Belmont Well, in five years, we’re not going to need the glasses. I mean that technology already exists.

Leo Laporte No. Really?

Veronica Belmont Yeah.

Leo Laporte No.

Veronica Belmont I’ve seen it. I’ve seen it.

Ryan Block The multi-panel stuff?

Leo Laporte That’s lenticular. That’s lenticular. I don’t know if you can really do 3D without glasses. You got – somehow, you have to separate the eyes.

Veronica Belmont It’s not the same, but is it good enough that you can make the…

Leo Laporte It’s not, because you can’t move. You have to be in the sweet spot, right?

Ryan Block Yeah, I mean and even with some HDTVs now, you have to be in the sweet spot. So…

Leo Laporte Yeah. I think that that – I think the…

Ryan Block I’m serious on this. I admire…

Veronica Belmont All right, we are strongly digressing from the rundown.

Leo Laporte No, this is a story. We don’t have to follow any old damn rundown. I am the rundown.

Veronica Belmont You know what, Eileen just yelled at me.

Leo Laporte I’m not yelling at you.

Veronica Belmont No, Eileen, I was not worried about you.

Leo Laporte Oh, Eileen will yell at you. She will yell at you. She will yell at you.

Ryan Block Is she yelling?

Veronica Belmont No.

Leo Laporte Well it kind of reminds me – remember when – you guys are all too young. But for a while [indiscernible] (35:40) and the Virtual Reality helmet?

Kara Swisher Yep. I’m not that young.

Leo Laporte And everybody was – yeah, you remember it Kara. And everybody was saying, oh, we’re going to be immersive. And it was horrible, it was like, headaches, nausea, uncomfortable, it was a torture device.

Ryan Block Remember VRML?

Leo Laporte VRML. Virtual Reality Markup Language.

Ryan Block Oh man. That was good times.

Leo Laporte But I think you said the right word, Veronica, which is immersive. I mean we are going towards immersive, somehow.

Veronica Belmont You also said the right word, which was Veronica.

Leo Laporte Veronica.


Leo Laporte And now I’m going to say the right word: Citrix. We’ll be back with more with Veronica, Ryan and Kara in just a bit. But first, I want to talk a little bit about GoToMeeting.

Our good friends at Citrix do a really fine product. You can’t always meet face to face. But occasionally, occasionally you have to. But most of the time, what you’d really like to do is meet, maybe have a conference call, maybe – but bring it to life, have it as engaging as a face-to-face meeting.

And that’s where GoToMeeting is so amazing. You could be on the phone – I tell you what, you can install it right now, take you about a minute. Once you’ve got on your system – the next time you’re saying, oh, I don’t want to fly to Brussels for a face to face meeting, or I don’t want to have to be on a conference call, because I just – you know how boring those are. You don’t have to. You send an email, you click a link, your conferees are all seeing what’s on your computer screen, they can take control and show you what’s on their screen, you can collaborate together on documents.

And really, you get ninety percent of what you meet in person for: that actual, visual connection, the ability to show the PowerPoint presentation or the Keynote presentation or the spreadsheets or the websites. It’s great for product reviews, for sales presentations, training sessions, collaboration – all right from your desk.

We use it – I would say every day somebody’s using GoToMeeting somewhere in the office. I want you to try it right now free. 30 days free. You’ll find it a great benefit to your business, and it sure will save you a lot of travel time I got to admit. And we thank Citrix, the folks who make it, for their support.

So we got some save the dates in the mail. October 12: Google TV, the Sony version is supposedly going to come out. We got – the Windows Phone is October, I think, 24.

Veronica Belmont 21st.

Leo Laporte 21st.

Veronica Belmont Somewhere in there.

Leo Laporte Somewhere in there.

Ryan Block Yeah, late October.

Leo Laporte Apple says, well, uh, soon. Apple TV, we’ll figure that out, we’ll get that out. Probably in October, too. Probably all three of these things are going to come out in October.

Ryan Block Yeah. They can’t come out much later than that, they got to be…

Leo Laporte If they want to get the holiday.

Veronica Belmont Oh, I can’t – I don’t need any more set top boxes. No more.

Ryan Block I am so ready for more set top boxes.

Veronica Belmont God.

Leo Laporte You’re going to get the Boxee box?

Veronica Belmont Yes.

Leo Laporte Yeah, that looks sweet.

Ryan Block Yeah, the new Roku box, Boxee box.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I got that. Love the new Roku box. 1080p in October.

Veronica Belmont We don’t have any room left in our home theaters.

Ryan Block Yeah, no, we’ll make the room. We will make that room. The room will be made.

Veronica Belmont You’re going to build some shelves.

Ryan Block The room will be made.

Veronica Belmont Well you have to. It’s your job.

Ryan Block We have so many – okay. Here’s what our home theater looks like. And this is after tearing it down and taking all the boxes that used to be there out. I can name a couple that used to be there. So right now it’s obviously receiver, HDMI switch, Sona ZP90, original Apple TV, X-BOX 360 Slim, PS3, Slingcatcher, Slingbox Pro HD…

Veronica Belmont PS3 Test.

Ryan Block No that – we took that one out.

Veronica Belmont Oh.

Ryan Block TiVo Premier. Wii. And there were two others that I’m forgetting.

Leo Laporte How do you even have time to watch one show?

Ryan Block Well, we – I would say we spend 90% of the time on the TiVo.

Veronica Belmont On the TiVo.

Leo Laporte Stuff you’ve DVR’d, after all of that, you still got the cable bill, you still got the Showtime for the True Blood and…

Ryan Block Yeah, shocking, right? How amazing the cable companies – what an amazing job they’ve done at keeping us from cutting that cable.

Veronica Belmont I’m actually okay with the idea of getting rid of cable.

Ryan Block You’re not going to have Daily Show, you’re not going to have…

Veronica Belmont You can get Daily Show online.

Leo Laporte Yeah, you can. You can watch Daily Show On Demand. You bet.

Ryan Block Only on, not through Hulu.

Leo Laporte See, that’s the trick. What – and maybe Google TV will solve this. There’s so much – the content’s everywhere. So that’s the idea, Google says, well, we’re a search company, you can find the content. You got to get Hulu, you got to get ABC, you got to get Comedy Central, you got to get all in that in my TV somehow, have a way for me to find it, may be it’s an Android device of some kind, it’s tied to Google TV, maybe it’s an iPhone tied into an Apple TV, I don’t know, but you somehow have to be able to find it and get it into that TV set, and the promise is all over the place.

Ryan Block And nobody’s got the deal. I don’t think the content providers. I think ultimately – and I’m sure Kara, she probably has some insight [indiscernible] (40:18) on this – but it’s ultimately the cable networks. I mean they are the ones who are preventing this from happening. Content providers – Comedy Central, I think they would love nothing more than to cut their carrier fee wit Comcast.

Leo Laporte They want to dis-intermediate.

Ryan Block They pay a lot of money to Comcast to be carried.

Kara Swisher Well, I think they all protest too much, all of them saying we really want it but these and then point to the next guy over, I mean, obviously cable companies want this to be slowed down as quick as much as possible because they are making all this money in VOD and all kinds of things, but I think the Hollywood companies are still on the fence about how they, what they want to do here. I think it will be interesting now that Seaberg has taken over NBC finally which everyone realized it was going to do, how that’s going to work out, that will be an interesting company to watch because they have got so many conflicting desires going on in that company, but I don’t know, I don’t necessarily blame the cable companies over the Hollywood companies.

Leo Laporte So Jeff Zucker left NBC, was he a roadblock.

Kara Swisher Yes, he left, he left.

Leo Laporte He was a, it was a…

Kara Swisher He was shanked, he was kicked out.

Leo Laporte He was booted, he got the boot.

Ryan Block I don’t know if I would see it as roadblock I mean, he was partially responsible for Hulu’s existence.

Kara Swisher He is, but I mean, I think they have these, when you interview them they have these very difficult feelings around Netflix, around Google, or on Apple and they are still not comfortable with the idea of letting – if you notice FOX didn’t give Apple, they only gave them streaming and renting rights. They wanted, Apple wanted much more. I mean I think this stuff, they don’t know once they let it out of the gate what’s going to happen and therefore they are holding it back in a lot of ways and I think it’s all subject to negotiations but it certainly isn’t…

Leo Laporte But Zucker was GE’s guy and now that NBC is owned by Kabletown, with a K, they – is this Berg, is this new guy, is he a Kabletown guy?

Veronica Belmont He had a history, he was at Disney. He was, we have a, we actually put the full D we had him at D this year, I interviewed him at D where he said absolutely nothing, he was nothing like the perfect Kabletown executive, but we put up the video where he said he wasn’t going to take over NBC which is oops! But, I think he is, they are going to take over, I mean Comcast is going to be firmly in charge of what’s going to happen.

Leo Laporte But didn’t we just say that is the cable companies that don’t want this to happen because they are making all this money on the premium services. They want to be a bit seller. They want to be selling bits wholesale.

Kara Swisher That’s what going to be interesting, that’s going to be interesting to watch how they handle, NBC has a lot of material with Hulu, their key partner, so it will be interesting to see exactly how they handle it.

Ryan Block You know the funny thing, I actually remember having a conversation about this a while ago on a panel, is really if you think about it, the cable companies don’t have much what they own and control, they have an infrastructure and, I mean they have, obviously they control some of these relationships and there is no question about that, but when you think about they really truly own, all they own is that infrastructure right and when those content providers do eventually wise up, and they will, it might take up a few more years they are going to be left high and dry and at the end of the day the only thing…

Leo Laporte We have been saying this for a long time though, I mean the movie industry knows this, they don’t like having to sell their movies via HBO or Comcast or anybody else, they’d love to have a Warner Brothers app on Google TV or whatever and sell direct to you, why hasn’t that happened?

Ryan Block The thing that amazes me with the cable companies is that they have the one thing that people will pay for and that is really fast Internet access, that’s the one true thing…

Leo Laporte But they want to be selling bits wholesale. They want to…

Ryan Block They always say that and then they always wind up doing so. Even AT&T was saying that for a long time and now look at them.

Kara Swisher Except they get a lot of money from the cable company. I mean we have Bob Eiger at D a couple of years ago and he has been very fast forward in a lot of this stuff compared to other people, but he definitely is under pressure from not just cable companies but Walmart who is selling all those box DVD sets and everything else and so here they have this giant amount of money that Comcast is paying them or whoever Comcast, Time Warner. They are getting that check, it’s very hard if you are a public company to say, you know what, I’m going to with Google who may or may not control my…

Leo Laporte So it’s fair. They don’t know.

Kara Swisher They have to make their numbers every quarter and so they are not going to be, these people are paid on a salary, they are not going to take big risks, they are going to, I just don’t, there is got to be some massive company stepping forward to be giving, to be doing this but you don’t – even ABC doesn’t do it.

Leo Laporte A guy like Zucker then, his portfolio, his mandate really is well let’s keep the cash coming in…

Kara Swisher It’s Berg, Zucker’s gone.

Leo Laporte I am sorry, Berg, but let’s keep the cash coming in from our cable companies but let’s explore because we got to prepare for the future, let’s explore, is that what’s going on, is this they are dipping their toes in the Hulu water?

Kara Swisher Well, they think they inherited Hulu, so it’s not, it’s not something about dipping their toes, NBC was in there before it was owned by Universal, but NBC Universal, but I think what’s interesting to say is what this is will be really interesting company to watch because they have so many conflicting situations here especially having to do that with their bottom line and…

Leo Laporte They are doomed, it’s like AOL Time Warner, they are doomed.

Kara Swisher I know they are doomed. They kind of have a big business. It’s a question of how quickly people will move off the, you don’t move off the cable thing until you have adequate amounts of content you can get elsewhere, and I think Steve Jobs at this recent launch of Apple TV said, we all love a good cat video, cat skateboarding video, but of the fact of the matter premium content is what people want and…

Leo Laporte Steve’s always has been dismissive.

Veronica Belmont I want the premium content. I just don’t want to pay it on a rental term like I want to be able to buy my content like a la carte, pay $15 for a season of…

Ryan Block I think the bottom line though is we have been talking about a la carte cable for 20 plus years…

Veronica Belmont And I don’t understand why that’s not going to happen.

Ryan Block The way that the businesses are structured today it’s never going to happen.

Veronica Belmont Do they, just they just don’t want our money.

Ryan Block So just put it out of your mind. No, because they get, the channels that are not successful do better without a la carte cable and the channels that are successful get those carriage fees. So it’s in their best interest not to do a la carte cable, everybody who has a moneyed interest in this except for consumers do not want to do it. So put a la carte out of your mind, a la carte cable is now going to have to become Internet distribution.

Kara Swisher I think it’s unbundling, they do not want to un-bundle and once they un-bundle and, interestingly enough media company trying to bundle up Internet content now because they are hoping that’s going to be weight on News Corp. or the others, unbundling is like the nightmare scenario for a lot of these media companies, because it changes the entire business, how they make money on a daily basis and it creates a very unstable environment for how to make hits, how to create hits and unbundling is like, you say that word around a Hollywood executive and someone’s like you are a vampire and you are shooting garlic at them or something.

Leo Laporte The only people who wanted unbundling are consumers and disenfranchise content creators who aren’t part of the big media.

Veronica Belmont I say weed them out if you don’t have good content, if people aren’t going to pay it and then you fail.

Leo Laporte The real bottom line here is that it does get better…

Veronica Belmont Is to make a partnership is all tied together, it’s too muddled in.

Ryan Block It does get better every year. You think about where we were in 2000, I mean it was just, I mean, you really, I mean I don’t pay for Hulu Plus, I tried it, I just was not into it, it was just a deeper back catalog, it doesn’t give me shows that I could normally get.

Leo Laporte Yes, I really regret that 10 bucks a month, that’s…

Ryan Block Yes.

Leo Laporte I don’t understand why that was…

Ryan Block I did it one month and I immediately cancelled it. This is not

Leo Laporte They are giving you nothing.

Ryan Block Give me more shows or whenever, but I mean still the very existence of Hulu and the fact that it’s actually good is proved that it is getting a lot better, it’s just so slow, it feels so slow.

Kara Swisher Except they don’t make money from Hulu. They get, they pull a lot of money out, but Hulu itself doesn’t make money and so these things have to make money.

Leo Laporte Is that going to always be there, why doesn’t Hulu charge a significant premium on ads – ads on Hulu?

Veronica Belmont Well, they are trying, they are trying but most of the money is sucked up by these companies, by these owners who are getting…

Leo Laporte Hulu doesn’t make money but NBC, FOX everybody else makes money.

Veronica Belmont Hulu is the company, I mean it’s just, it’s just – it’s a very early situation because…

Ryan Block If you think about it, Hulu is almost a holding company in this case.

Leo Laporte No, NBC does not care if Hulu makes money, ABC doesn’t care, FOX doesn’t care, all it was, was this is our way of dipping our toe in the water, good it works, now, they are going to do it from their site.

Ryan Block The problem with Hulu as an experiment though is if the only people making money or the people who have these very large investments in it then it’s never going to grow outside of that.

Kara Swisher That’s right.

Leo Laporte Hulu was never intended to succeed. Hulu was a way of them trying this out.

Kara Swisher I don’t know.

Leo Laporte Well, I take that back, the people who started Hulu wanted it to succeed but all their content partners were sitting there going yeah, sure kid, go ahead. Let’s just try this.

Kara Swisher They were started by the big companies, I mean Jason Kilar comes from Amazon but he was hired by Jeff Zucker and whoever and the various companies.

Leo Laporte So, does that not make sense that they thought well, this is a way for us to test this, if it works we will do it ourselves on our own website.

Kara Swisher I am not sure, I think they sometimes don’t know what they – it’s like the strategy du jour kind of thing.

Leo Laporte Right.

Kara Swisher And what’s interesting is, even though Netflix, l love Netflix and I like the whole consumer experience, they still don’t have enough good stuff on it.

Leo Laporte But they bought a lot more, they just bought…

Ryan Block They are getting better.

Kara Swisher They are writing the checks, and that’s what they are, there is going to be a tipping point where the are going to be able to have enough consumer liking, that’s consumer buying and also the ability to get great content. They just signed another deal this week. At some point they are going to have, there is going to be a tipping point where they are going to be powerful enough.

Leo Laporte Right, they are the one.

Kara Swisher We will see.

Leo Laporte Yes, there can be only one.

Ryan Block Honestly, I think they are already there and especially after this last week…

Leo Laporte They are pretty darn close.

Ryan Block They had Battlestar Galactica and what was the other one that they just announced, it was on, it was on like Mad Men 2? I don’t know but – right after....

Leo Laporte So it sounds like Apple is cleverly positioned, because they only have Netflix and the iTunes Store. But it sounds like that might be enough. And it’s certainly a lot simpler than the Google solution, which is everything, right?

Ryan Block Yeah, I mean I think Apple is – they’re aiming more for the day and date stuff or the brand new TV content stuff, whereas the Netflix is a little bit more archive-centric.

Leo Laporte So when we see this Sony TV – I presume the Sony TV October 12, this is the first Google TV device, will shortly be followed by Logitech and everybody, Dish and everybody else. Is this going to be a compelling product, Ryan? I mean are you...?

Ryan Block I’m not entirely sure yet, it – the thing you hear most is Web TV 2.0, I guess...

Leo Laporte Oh, that’s interesting.

Ryan Block The Web TV had a 2.0...

Kara Swisher Oh, ouch.

Ryan Block Web TV 3.0. I see it, but at the same time I remember a lot of people discounting Android in the early days.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Ryan Block And I tend not to bet against companies like Google or even Microsoft. These guys – they play the long game. And when they commit and they are aggressive and they push hard, they do things that you might not think...

Leo Laporte Right.

Ryan Block ...would be possible.

Kara Swisher What do you – I’m curious, what do you think of the Windows 7 Phone, we just got a demo here at the ATD HQ this Friday. And I was pretty impressed with it. I’m not gadget person like you.

Ryan Block Yeah, I had one. I had one for a few months and I really like it.

Leo Laporte Really?

Ryan Block Yeah.

Kara Swisher I was deeply impressed by it.

Ryan Block I am shockingly impressed.

Leo Laporte Good for Microsoft, I have to applaud them.

Veronica Belmont It’s one of the few things that I’ve ever heard him say actually that he’s been actually pleasantly surprised by it.

Leo Laporte I have to applaud them. I am thrilled to see to see a third horse in this race. I think that’s – or maybe a fourth if you include BlackBerry.

Ryan Block Yeah, and then you have Palm and...

Veronica Belmont Yeah.

Ryan Block ...I don’t know it’s – I feel like everybody is kind of duking it out for number three right now and it’s going to be iOS and Android up here and then kind of a distant third for...

Leo Laporte Right.

Ryan Block ...a good long while. But yeah, I know – I mean I think they could have a horse in this race...

Leo Laporte That’s excellent.

Ryan Block ...they need to do what Palm didn’t, which is successfully galvanize the developer community.

Veronica Belmont Yeah.

Leo Laporte They seem to working hard at that.

Ryan Block ...if they can do that – if they can do that, I think they might have a chance. The OS itself is a good start.

Kara Swisher I called it the Bing – I call it the Bing of phones. It’s sort of like, wow! I was over surprised. I hadn’t seen it as long as you have. But it sort of was a little pleasant surprise.

Ryan Block Yeah. Well I have been seeing what is now Phone 7 in different early builds and iterations from Microsoft for about 5 years. I mean really, really, really long time coming on this and...

Kara Swisher Yeah.

Ryan Block ...and they made some really stupid decisions on the way until they finally decided to just gut it and start afresh and...

Kara Swisher Yeah.

Ryan Block ...forget about backwards compatibility. And I think it’s ultimately going to work out for the best. They just – they really need to get people on their side, I mean right now it’s really hard – this is the problem that Android had really early on, if you remember; is that the App Store followed the success of Android selling hardware, right? Your developers are going to go where the money is. They’re going to go where they audience is, they are not going to go where they think one or two cool phones are. And that’s part of Palm’s problem. So Microsoft needs to move phones, but they also need to do an awesome job at courting developers.

Leo Laporte They seem to be really working.

Ryan Block They’re trying.

Leo Laporte It seems they have understood that anyway.

Ryan Block But it’s a tricky market, it’s a tricky game. And it’s not easy to get thousands and thousands of applications. I mean Apple makes it look super easy, but it’s not.

Leo Laporte You said an interesting thing Kara, the Bing of phones.

Kara Swisher Yeah, so I just – that’s what I thought when I saw it. Bing was a big surprise in terms of innovation and looking different than something – something different and fresh. And I just thought, it felt like a phone between the iPhone – again, I’m not a reviewer – but felt a like a phone between the iPhone and the Android phone, felt like sitting right between them. And that’s why I kind of liked it in some way.

Veronica Belmont It feels a little more like an Android phone to me.

Leo Laporte Really?

Kara Swisher It’s just a little less geeky I guess.

Leo Laporte Slicker – I think slicker UI. And I haven’t played with it, but it sounds like it’s –

Ryan Block To me – I mean the phone is actually at the level where you don’t have to worry about it, right?

Leo Laporte That’s what you want.

Ryan Block When Palm’s first builds of Web OS came out and Palm Pre came out, I mean there was a lot to be worried about there. I mean the battery life was just terrible. I mean just awful. Like, wouldn’t even last half a day in some cases.

Veronica Belmont Yeah.

Ryan Block And it was sluggish and there were just so many problems. And so it wasn’t like Palm with Web OS had the best possible foundation to start with. It feels like Phone 7 is actually a good foundation.

Veronica Belmont It’s something else for me who has been on the iPhone for so long. Like going between the Windows Phone and going between something like Palm, it’s so much more intuitive for me now to be using the Windows Phone. Like it just feels more intuitive compare to even with the – with Web OS.

Leo Laporte And you don’t use a Zune HD or anything like that. So it’s your first time with a Metro.

Veronica Belmont Well I did like the Zune interface as well.

Leo Laporte No, I do too.

Veronica Belmont Yeah.

Leo Laporte I like that Metro [indiscernible] (54:52) though. Eric Schmidt says, he’s not worried about Apple, he’s not worried about Facebook. We’ll talk about who Google’s worried about in just a moment. Veronica Belmont is here, Ryan Block, Kara Swisher. This is TWiT.

You use Squarespace, don’t you, for your blog?

Veronica Belmont For Sword and Laser. We do.

Leo Laporte Sword and Laser. Nice looking site.

Veronica Belmont Thank you.

Leo Laporte Squarespace is really – I think that’s where Squarespace does a great job, they really have figured out a way to make it easy – did you have a designer? They probably helped you.

Veronica Belmont They helped us, yeah.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Veronica Belmont And they did a fabulous job.

Leo Laporte But you know – you know I have to say you can do it yourself even without design help., if you want to take a look at what Squarespace is capable of, they call themselves ‘the secret behind exceptional websites.’

And it really all starts with these templates, they have got beautiful looking basic templates. But then even if you are not a designer, you can drag and drop, you just move it around, you can change the design easily, easily to make it look exactly what you like. And if you do know CSS and JavaScript, well then the sky’s the limit, it really is – it’s amazing. Great stats.

Veronica Belmont Go to Sword and Laser.

Leo Laporte I will. If you go to the – go to and then go to the examples, you’ll see all the different blogs and Sword and Laser is right up on here, there is Kevin Rose blog, there is Jeff Cannata of TRS is on there. Revision3, let’s see. There’s all sorts of good stuff. Where is Sword and Laser?

Veronica Belmont Well you just go to the url, too.

Leo Laporte Or I could go to just, couldn’t I?

Veronica Belmont Oh, there it is.

Leo Laporte Beautiful site. Look at that. Isn’t that gorgeous? And it’s easy to post to, right? I mean you don’t have – they have a iPhone app, which is really slick. But really good content – it’s like – so what is – Squarespace’s content management plus hosting. So that’s why you get a great design tool, it’s – you know, a lot of hosts you go there and they go, ‘oh, we got a site builder.’ It’s just horrible! It’s just a nightmare.

Squarespace, this – it started with the software and the hosting comes along for the ride. And great, they are using Java and really, so sophisticated Java VPS system that really means that you got bandwidth to spare. You cannot bring a Squarespace site down. You know I wouldn’t say that if it weren’t true, because I tell you what, people are going to try. They really will try. We’re famous for bringing sites down.

Veronica Belmont I have tried to DDOS my own site...

Leo Laporte You can’t.

Veronica Belmont It doesn’t work, no.

Leo Laporte You cannot. Site start at – well if you go monthly, 13.33 a month, but if you go for two years, $10.67 a month and you get 10% off when you use a coupon code TWiT. And that’s for the life of your site. That’s the basic sites, they go all the way up for a high-end business site with lots of features, $32 a month, that’s hosting and the software. That’s why this is where great websites begin. Go to to try it for free for two weeks, you don’t even need a credit card. If you decide to buy – and I really recommend it, if you think about where to start to your website, this is the place, or where to move your website by the way, they can import all the content from your existing site or export it out, if you want., use a coupon code TWiT for 10% off today.

So Eric Schmidt is talking on The Wall Street Journal. And he says, it’s not – it’s The Big Interview show – he says, it’s not Apple we’re worried about. It’s not Facebook. Who are you worried about, Eric Schmidt? Who scares? When Eric Schmidt wakes up in the middle of the night?

[Video clip]

Leo Laporte Bing! Bing! We’re not scared of Facebook, we’re scared of Bing!

Ryan Block I don’t know if they’re really scared.

Leo Laporte Why?

Ryan Block But you know –

Leo Laporte Is that FUD? Why would –

Kara Swisher FUD, FUD, FUD, FUD, FUD.

Leo Laporte Why would Google worry about Bing?

Ryan Block Okay, but you know – well, there’s some distraction there. But you know what I love most about Eric and about these kinds of interviews? He does not say like, ‘oh, we are very competitive in the marketplace and we are always looking at our competitive players.’ He – the man says the word, Bing.

Leo Laporte I know. I like that.

Ryan Block He says –

Leo Laporte I really like that. He’s put his foot in his mouth a few times. He’s scared people.

Ryan Block I appreciate people who are more likely to put their foot in their mouths during these executive interviews.

Leo Laporte Well, for us it’s a lot better. And I know if it’s better for his stockholders. What you think, Kara? Why Bing?

Kara Swisher I think they are obsessed with Facebook.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Kara Swisher You cannot get a Google executive off – just at a regular place where they’re not sort of in an official capacity, not discuss Facebook extensively.

Leo Laporte Interesting.

Kara Swisher And that’s who they’re nervous about.

Leo Laporte Why?

Kara Swisher And I’m sure they are bothered by Apple too in the phone area, obviously they’re quite competitive in that area. They just think that search is going towards Facebook; they are very worried about their core business, and Bing, as much as they have done, it’s been great that they’ve gotten, you know, Microsoft’s a very strong competitor and they have gotten their share up mostly from Yahoo!, mostly from taking it from Yahoo! but the fact of the matter is they’ve gotten their share up and they have intentions of getting bigger, I mean they are not going to quit, obviously, in this area, but that’s sort of a past game, the new game is about people and search and the integration of people and search and I think that they are very obsessed with Facebook.

Leo Laporte Well, Eric Schmidt…

Veronica Belmont I mean Facebook is going to work harder at making their search a little better then, if that’s the case. It is a terrible website, I’m sorry.

Ryan Block Zuckerberg say that all their search is handled right now by one guy.

Veronica Belmont Yeah, it’s mind blowing how bad it is.

Leo Laporte So why is Google scared of him, one guy.

Veronica Belmont I mean they have got the people there but…

Kara Swisher They are scared if people find being able not to need a traditional search that there is ways in – the ways it is going in the future; this is the theory at Google at least. The way in the future that it is going is that people will find things based on things like four – the whole idea of location, Foursquare recommendation, friends and…

Leo Laporte It’s search…

Ryan Block It is the next big…

Leo Laporte …plus social graph plus location.

Veronica Belmont I can see that but I still think Facebook has…

Ryan Block It’s the next big revenue opportunity…

Kara Swisher Yes.

Ryan Block And Bing, when they call out Bing that way, they don’t have to worry about sounding like a monopolist.

Leo Laporte Right.

Kara Swisher Right. That’s right.

Leo Laporte That’s a good point too. Microsoft, they are good.

Veronica Belmont I think Facebook is going to have to see a major overhaul of their entire infrastructure before that is really a concern in that area at least.

Kara Swisher But you are thinking of search in the traditional sense. This is not search…

Veronica Belmont No I understand the recommendations and I can see that for sure but I even on that level, I’m not seeing a lot of interest there for me anyway and I’m on Facebook everyday, I use it pretty constantly, not for fun, just for like work kind of stuff, and I just don’t see them doing that well in that area. Yet, anyway I can see why that makes sense to be worried about them in the future but I think it’s going to be a while, I think there is a lot of other sites that do a lot better.

Ryan Block And that’s kind of why I hate to make this about my company or whatever, but that’s why we did what we did, we wanted to…

Leo Laporte Gadget,

Ryan Block Yes, we wanted to do a site where the social interactions pivoted around products because there is a very clear reason to do that, as opposed to just keeping it person to person or to have something a lot more generic.

Veronica Belmont I prefer niche sites that cater to what I’m looking for as opposed to all the garbage that you are going to find on Facebook from people.

Ryan Block Right, and if you look at the history of the web, it’s a history of fragmentation; it’s not a history of consolidation.

Leo Laporte The brilliant thing Mark Zuckerberg did is he got people to give him information about their taste, their interest, their location, everything, right here. Now he had to do it by tricking in by saying it’s all private however, in the long run that’s not going to make him any money so he has got to move them towards public; I thought that, well – you had that same exact insight Ryan when you said, well, how can we design a site that gets people to tell everything about the gadgets they have and the gadgets they want, that’s hugely valuable information.

Ryan Block Right.

Leo Laporte Is that the insight that started gdgt?

Ryan Block It wasn’t that. I mean it wasn’t like how can we get really valuable information about people, it was you know, we wanted to create…

Leo Laporte I’ll give you more credit then…

Ryan Block I mean yes…

Leo Laporte You are not a greedy capitalist, but that’s certainly the value of it, that’ a huge upside to it…

Ryan Block Absolutely.

Leo Laporte In fact I look at gdgt and I said that’s brilliant. Because what – that’s what Facebook, that was the insight Facebook had. Now Facebook has a more compelling reason to do that, people do it so they can get laid.

Ryan Block Right.

Leo Laporte Gdgt, I don’t know…

Ryan Block We do it so you can get laid with your iPhone.

Veronica Belmont Which will always be more compelling.

Leo Laporte Yes, no, we’ve learnt that that’s not true actually.

Ryan Block Yes, no that’s…

Leo Laporte That’s why I went to Android. Didn’t help me at all. No, I think that that’s – the issue though is he has got a very compelling story to tell it social and people want to meet, greet, that’s just not to get laid, obviously, it’s to meet old friends, hook up with your old high school friends and things like that, that’s a very compelling story but he’s got this very difficult issue which is, it’s not – he can’t make any money if it’s private, and I think it’s very clear, Google understands it’s not, search is search anymore, it’s not the future for Google.

Kara Swisher It’s not, it’s more than that. It’s that you don’t have a relationship with Google, I mean you do in Gmail to an extent but Google is trying their various social attempts which – most of which have not worked very well.

Ryan Block Yes.

Kara Swisher The problem is Google is as social as a phonebook, you know, I mean you are not – you don’t have a very good relationship with a telephone book or an encyclopedia, which is very useful, it doesn’t mean they are not useful, but they realize that you have a relationship with Facebook as a consumer that they don’t have with you and as you spend more time on Facebook and you are able to get what you want out of it, get lots of things and it’s not traditional search, it’s as you are – you are able to find what you need, they are very worried about that and they should be, they – that’s something they should be thinking about strongly.

Ryan Block I totally agree, and that’s baking social in from the ground up, I think is probably the most important aspect.

Leo Laporte But it’s a double edged sword because you did it initially, at least with Facebook…

Veronica Belmont Right.

Leo Laporte With the promise that it was private.

Ryan Block Right.

Leo Laporte You know, the relation, I didn’t want to have a relationship with Facebook, I wanted to have relationship with my friends, Facebook is just the carrier and all of a sudden they are saying oh, really, we’d love to use this information in other ways.

Veronica Belmont That’s kind of like the general assumption going forward that all websites do not assume anything is private ever.

Ryan Block Yes.

Leo Laporte Right. We know that now.

Ryan Block Well, I mean I think that…

Veronica Belmont We learnt that.

Ryan Block …you should be doing…

Leo Laporte We learnt – we learnt it.

Ryan Block You have to do two things. One you have to bake the public nature of the website into the experience, I think Twitter has done a better job at that. Right. Twitter has made it very clear like this is all public, you can try to hide some of the stuff but you know there is never really this thinking behind Twitter where we are going to keep you private and then we are going to transition you to public, it’s just assumed public. And you know that’s not something we do and you know the other aspect is baking in social from the ground up. And that’s I think actually the thing that not just Google, but a lot of companies are having a big, big problem with right now, they are figuring out how to bake in social and when they can’t figure out how to bake in social into their product they just go to Facebook and they throw up a Facebook page and do their marketing on Facebook, and that’s why Facebook is winning, is because they understand social.

Kara Swisher Hence Yahoo! I mean, Facebook is Yahoo!’s social strategy at this moment.

Ryan Block Yes.

Leo Laporte Yes, wow, that’s kind of depressing.

Ryan Block It’s really – it’s kind of sad, but…

Leo Laporte That’s so pathetic.

Veronica Belmont It is, isn’t it?

Leo Laporte We have a search…

Ryan Block It is harder than it looks…

Leo Laporte We have search strategy; it’s Bing; we have a social strategy; it’s Facebook.

Kara Swisher Right.

Leo Laporte Okay, good.

Kara Swisher Better than what they have done.

Leo Laporte Yes, why not, outsourced.

Veronica Belmont We have a photo strategy, that’s Flickr.

Leo Laporte What exactly is…

Kara Swisher They do own that. They do own that.

Leo Laporte At least they own that, yes.

Veronica Belmont Yes.

Leo Laporte Facebook, let’s talk about it, the social network; the movie comes out Friday, October 1.

Kara Swisher Yes, so excited.

Leo Laporte Who’s seen it? Anybody here has seen it?

Veronica Belmont Not yet.

Kara Swisher No.

Leo Laporte Really?

Veronica Belmont We are going Friday.

Ryan Block Have you seen it?

Leo Laporte No, I’m dying to see it. Amber saw it, and he loved it.

Ryan Block You raised your hand.

Leo Laporte No I was asking…

Veronica Belmont Raise your hand.

Leo Laporte Show of hands is what the moderator does, who has seen it here, not me?

Veronica Belmont I hear it’s excellent.

Kara Swisher Peter Kafka wrote a pretty good post about it that got a lot of attention about essentially saying that Mark Zuckerberg should be more worried than I thought he should be by the portrayal.

Leo Laporte Well, let’s talk about it because Mark is in fact on a very obvious attempt to get good PR, he decides to go on Oprah, I think…

Kara Swisher Yes, no, let me just clarify that, Oprah decided that. Let that, and that is a little unfair to Mark because they were going to do this thing for some months now and Oprah said this is the day we are doing it and I don’t believe you get to argue with Oprah.

Veronica Belmont No. No, that decision is made for…

Ryan Block I don’t know, if you are Mark Zuckerberg, maybe you do.

Veronica Belmont No, I don’t think so.

Kara Swisher No, nobody argues with Oprah. But I think in that case that was the time…

Ryan Block Well, Oprah called me, I want to argue with you right now.

Kara Swisher She’d win. Suddenly you’ll disappear, Ryan.

Ryan Block Right, yes.

Kara Swisher Wouldn’t be seen again.

Veronica Belmont She will disappear you.

Kara Swisher Gayle will come in and take you off in a Chevrolet.

Ryan Block Omen? is that what he said?

Kara Swisher No, Gayle.

Leo Laporte Are you saying there is actually somebody more powerful in the world than Mark Zuckerberg?

Kara Swisher I don’t know.

Veronica Belmont Oprah is probably one of the most powerful women in the world.

Kara Swisher In this case Oprah wanted to do it and so did the Mayor of New York and so did the Governor of New Jersey.

Leo Laporte So Oprah give, I mean, Oprah, Oprah convinces Zuckerberg to give 100 million…

Kara Swisher No, no, no, no, no, no, she was doing it, it’s just when the announcement was going to be made.

Ryan Block You know ultimately I don’t think it matters anyway, I think it’s a pretty myopic view because…

Kara Swisher Yes.

Ryan Block Movies do not come out and then disappear two weeks later, movies are around forever, and they are watched forever and Facebook is not going anywhere anytime soon and this movie will be watched forever so…

Veronica Belmont I have to say, my favorite absolute favorite quote from that profile of Zuckerberg was when they were talking to…

Leo Laporte Is the New Yorker profile…

Veronica Belmont Sorkin about the movie and they are like you do know that West Wing is one of Mark’s favorite shows, and he just goes don’t tell me that. I don’t want to know that.

Leo Laporte Aaron Sorkin said that?

Veronica Belmont Yes.

Leo Laporte O boy! He knows.

Kara Swisher He gave a great interview in New York Magazine, if you get the New York Magazine; it is terrific and it goes into great detail about how he feels about what he’s done, essentially, fictionalized, this living person’s life and it’s really a very interesting article.

Veronica Belmont Yes, that’s the thing that really interests me the most is that it is a story about a living person’s life, pretty much up until the point where we are at now with him, and that’s really going to effect the person that the focus is being put on.

Leo Laporte I kind of feel sorry for him.

Veronica Belmont I do too a little bit.

Kara Swisher Well, he is quite upset by the D, the night before he went on for Sweat-a-Palooza…


Kara Swisher He was very upset, we had a discussion at dinner about it and he was very, he said, this is going to be the way people see me the rest of my life and this is – he was very upset about it and I said well you do end up with the billion so I guess there was a trade off there…

Veronica Belmont Yes.

Kara Swisher But I think it’s very – it’s interesting Sorkin said he didn’t want to let the good – the true get in the way of the good, meaning he doesn’t care if this isn’t exactly Mark Zuckerberg, he made it better, you know, and so that’s going to be the problem I think for people, it’s going to – is this what he is like or is it sort of – is it heavily fictionalized, heavily caricaturized version.

Veronica Belmont And you know what worries me the most is that Zuckerberg isn’t the type of person that will really step up and be like, no this isn’t me and try to…

Kara Swisher No, right.

Ryan Block Okay, by – in all fairness, and I have a feeling Kara is going to have something to say about this. It’s not like the founding of Facebook was uncontentious.

Veronica Belmont No, of course --

Ryan Block It’s not like there was a whole ton of really horrible things that happened to people --

Veronica Belmont Yes.

Ryan Block Early on in that business.

Veronica Belmont Yes, yes.

Ryan Block It’s not like Sean Parker who was not – going crazy behind the scenes and ousted from his position because he was picked up on drug charges. It’s not like the Winklevosses were completely – had nothing to do with Facebook. I mean it’s --

Veronica Belmont They have matching man purses. It’s horrible.


Ryan Block It’s not like Zuckerberg is like some like angel here who’s been just completely wrongfully characterized. I mean --

Kara Swisher No, no, no, I think it definitely was --

Ryan Block And he confirmed those IMs.

Kara Swisher It was a messy beginning to that company, no question. But the fact of the matter is – those two [indiscernible] (70:38) have gotten – they have gotten paid off. And I think – it’s something I have wrote. It’s like they were present at the creation of something they never could have created. And they got paid off. And they got 60 million bucks. And that’s a lot of money.

Veronica Belmont Yeah, stop your bitching.

Kara Swisher And they also by the way signed a confidentiality – I don’t like confidentiality agreements. But I believe they signed one. And here they are continuing to agitate for more money that they don’t deserve.

Ryan Block Yeah, they are going back to court. Right?

Leo Laporte Oh, that’s true.

Kara Swisher Well, yeah, of course, but I am just saying these guys were starting – if you go look at their original version – he definitely geeked them out. He definitely slowed them down. There’s no question.

Leo Laporte But they would never have created Facebook.

Kara Swisher Never.

Veronica Belmont No.

Leo Laporte They weren’t on the track to do that.

Veronica Belmont He is the brains behind the organization.

Kara Swisher Never, I mean that’s the thing. And I think if you look at the beginning of Microsoft --

Ryan Block But I don’t think that --

Kara Swisher Microsoft had some sketchy beginnings --

Leo Laporte Oh, yeah, buying a DOS from Seattle Software and not saying, oh, by the way, we have a little bit of a contract with IBM.

Kara Swisher It’s just – I think it’s just – this has become so interesting from a fictionalized point of view, it’s become – listen, Mark Zuckerberg behaved very badly during that period. The fact of the matter is he paid off the people – they all got paid.

Leo Laporte They got some thing. And he’s still got money.

Kara Swisher They all got paid.

Leo Laporte Now let me ask you, Kara, do you have a little soft spot in your heart for him. You were very motherly with him with the sweat and the --

Kara Swisher Yeah, I couldn’t attack then. That’s really a good point. That would have made me great. Here is – I was – it was very troubling what happened to him. He had a very – it was clearly a panic attack or some sort of something like that.

Leo Laporte Okay. You kind of started to feel for him. He’s 26?

Veronica Belmont I know.

Kara Swisher Well, I know. I don’t care about the age thing. At some point, he has got to stop with I am so young. I don’t really care how old he is. But he definitely had something happen there that I am not sure what it was but it wasn’t the time. Walt was very firm on him. And then it was time to stop because he was clearly in distress, physically in distress. And getting the hoody off was funny and then the thing on it was funny and everything like that. But there is no reason to continue to pound at him once you saw he couldn’t answer these very serious questions that he needs to learn to answer. And I think it’s said enough. We didn’t need to continue to feed on him at that point. Later – we’ll feed on him later, not today. Oops.

[Video clip]

Leo Laporte This is Oprah.

[Video clip]

Leo Laporte This is a puff piece. You cannot tell me this is not designed to counter bad publicity which was going to happen on Friday?

Kara Swisher No, I think --

Ryan Block Yeah, for sure.

Kara Swisher Yeah.

Leo Laporte $100 million for Newark. Do you think he would have done that if they weren’t The Social Network?

Kara Swisher Yes.

Veronica Belmont Well that’s – yeah, they were planning.

Leo Laporte You would?

Kara Swisher Yes.

Veronica Belmont The show had been planned for a while.

Leo Laporte No, but this show was The Social Network. We knew about The Social Network – look, The Accidental Billionaires came out a year ago. We saw the script a year ago.

Kara Swisher I don’t know. I just feel like --

Ryan Block It’s not like they talked about any of the contentious --

Leo Laporte ‘He is learning Chinese so he can go to China.’

[Video clip]

Kara Swisher What’s with Oprah.

Ryan Block Watch. Here comes – I mean, come on.

Leo Laporte Isn’t he – he’s got the same girlfriend he had when he was – before he started Facebook.

Kara Swisher He did.

Leo Laporte That’s cute.

Kara Swisher He has – yes, they have been going along a long time.

Leo Laporte That’s really sweet.

Kara Swisher It’s interesting. I tried to get him to go to the premiere with me. I was trying to figure out --

Leo Laporte Oh, that would have been a scoop.

Kara Swisher I wanted him to go to the premiere, wear a tux, look hot, go up to the [indiscernible] (74:00) good look, go up to the guy, the guy who plays him and go like, oh, look, we look alike and go up to the –

Leo Laporte That would have been cute.

Kara Swisher And say to the press who would have really attacked him there, I mean he would have been in the center of the press attention, they’d say, how you liked the movie. He could go, oh, yeah it was interesting – really good movie, but I wish I dated Playboy bunnies, but here’s my girlfriend, Priscilla.

Veronica Belmont It would have been better if he owned it.

Kara Swisher Yeah, he should have owned it. That would have been – Larry Ellison would have been there with like 16 supermodels, whatever.

Veronica Belmont I mean how else do you do that kind of damage control.

Leo Laporte Is he getting bad advice?

Veronica Belmont Maybe people are trying to make him be something that he is really not. I mean maybe if he just starts to have more of his personality shine through. Maybe he doesn’t have a personality. I am not sure. I have never met him.

Kara Swisher He never would shown up to events.

Veronica Belmont Yeah.

Kara Swisher He never – his sister wanted to but she is a livewire.

Leo Laporte Randi.

Veronica Belmont Oh, yeah. She’s got enough personality for both of them. She is great.

Leo Laporte Let’s take a break. We’re going to talk a little more about Facebook. We’re not done with this; had a bad week actually for the servers.

Kara Swisher Yes. Indeed.

Leo Laporte Before we get to that there, I want to talk a little bit about my friends at Ford and the fabulous Ford Fiesta. I like the alliteration, the fabulous Ford Fiesta. EPA – I will start. I will not bury the lead on this. EPA estimated 40 miles per gallon on the highway; 40 miles per gallon, the most fuel efficient compact car on the market today, the 2011 Fiesta and it is hot. It is so cute.

It’s just the design, just beautiful, the 1.6 liter Duratec Ti-VCT I4 engine, the Easy Fuel – I love this, I had this on my Mustang, the Easy Fuel capless fuel filter. You don’t have a fuel cap. You would like this, Veronica.

Veronica Belmont I am looking for a car actually.

Leo Laporte Look at the – go outside and look at my Mustang. It’s got the SYNC.

Veronica Belmont Oh, I am like, it’s not there.

Leo Laporte Well, through the curtain. It’s got the – are you looking for a car?

Veronica Belmont I am.

Leo Laporte Yeah, because you had a rented car to come up here.

Veronica Belmont I did. Zipcar.

Leo Laporte Would you – I know you are the type – you would never consider an American car.

Veronica Belmont Why?

Leo Laporte Well, you should.

Veronica Belmont Okay.

Leo Laporte Times have changed.


No, no, I was that kind of person.

Veronica Belmont No, I am looking into a Prius because I live in San Francisco and you’re supposed to do that.

Leo Laporte Yeah, yeah, yeah, you want the hybrid. 40. How much does a Prius get?

Veronica Belmont I think it’s like --

Leo Laporte 40 miles per gallon and this is a gas engine. And it’s peppier. You got the beautiful SYNC in there. They got the 4 inch multi-function display with LCD screen. You’re going to love that. That’s standard. And then you get the optional stuff which I would get because you are Veronica Belmont.

Veronica Belmont Like what – what’s the optional stuff?

Leo Laporte Heated leather trim seats.

Veronica Belmont Woooo…

Leo Laporte PowerShift – now do you drive automatic or stick --

Veronica Belmont Yeah.

Leo Laporte You want automatic. Oh, you’d like the PowerShift 6-speed automatic. You’d love that. Now SYNC is the best thing ever. Have you used Ford SYNC? This is the stuff where --

Veronica Belmont I have tested it before, yeah.

Leo Laporte Oh, it’s awesome. You talk to the SYNC. And now by the way, the new SYNC, the new 2011, they call it MyFord Touch, does Pandora, Stitcher, Slacker, you can I mean – basically they were so smart. They said, look, all the stuff is happening in the phone, right. We will tie our system into the phone, iPhone or Android, whatever you use. And as features are added to the phone, those will be added, in effect, added to the car because the car is so integrated into the phone. So it’s brilliant.

You get true hands free calling. You just say, call Ryan, and then, boom, it does it; turn-by-turn voice directions. You don’t even have to buy an additional expensive GPS system, it’s built in; 911 Assist. So if the airbags go off, I see you have a little wine right now.

Veronica Belmont I am. I am. I don’t have to drive him home tonight.


Leo Laporte If the airbags go off on the way home, it calls 911 on the phone, sends them your GPS coordinates, plays a recorded message and opens the mic.

Veronica Belmont Oh, good.

Leo Laporte And says, do you have anything to say, help me.

Veronica Belmont I am drunk.

Leo Laporte I am drunk. I have fallen and I can’t get up.

Veronica Belmont No, I do not drink and drive.

Leo Laporte No, of course, you don’t. And I would never want to imply that.

Ryan Block You drink and walk though.

Veronica Belmont I do.

Leo Laporte You shouldn’t do that either.

Veronica Belmont Poorly.

Leo Laporte Ryan, you should carry her when she is drunk.

Ryan Block I try every opportunity.

Leo Laporte Voice – I don’t want to know. Voice activated – piggybacks, right. Voice activated means – the image, I am sorry.


Voice activated – I have lost it. Voice activated music and podcasts browsing. By the way, this is cool. On Android, your text message comes in. You can turn this off if you don’t want it. But it alerts you that there is a new text message and it reads it to you in this little Android eVoice, it’s really great.

And you can then – it has pre-canned messages you can send back. All without taking your hands off the wheel or your eyes off the road. I mean this is slick. The 2011 Ford Fiesta, just take a look at it, very affordable, I know you’re loaded but very affordable.

I actually went out to the Ford dealer and test drove one. And I was really impressed. I love the engine. Have you seen the Fiesta versus Lamborghini video on YouTube?

Veronica Belmont No.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Veronica Belmont I want a Tesla still.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I don’t know.

Veronica Belmont Some day, some day.

Leo Laporte I don’t know. EPA estimated 29-city, 40-highway, 33-combined mileage. That’s pretty awesome. Drive one this week at a Ford dealer near you. I’ll tell you why. I am really happy get behind, first of all, American industry, we got to keep it alive in this country. Ford is really on the leading edge of modern technology, a modern industrial company, 21st century industrial company, making great products and I want to support them I am happy to drive a Ford I know you will too. Drive one this week at a Ford dealer near you.

Veronica Belmont I have been over a decade with no car.

Leo Laporte Really? How do you – because you are a city dweller, you don’t need one. Well, why do you want to get one now?

Veronica Belmont I want to get out of the city more often. Zipcar is great but we don’t live particularly close to .

Leo Laporte So Zip – you driving – this is kind of a neat idea, the Zipcar idea.

Veronica Belmont Yeah.

Ryan Block Yeah, car sharing.

Leo Laporte You just pick it up somewhere, right. It’s just sitting there.

Veronica Belmont Yeah, there is a lot pretty close to our house, 10 minute walk away.

Leo Laporte And do you have an account with them?

Veronica Belmont Yeah, you have to get verified with them so they have your driver’s license info and --

Leo Laporte But you don’t talk to anybody now? You just go online.

Veronica Belmont No, no, unless there is an issue. If there is like – the car is really dirty or it’s out of gas or something like that.

Leo Laporte Right.

Veronica Belmont But gas is free. Insurance is paid.

Leo Laporte And how much a day?

Veronica Belmont It’s about 8.95 an hour

Leo Laporte So you pay by the hour?

Veronica Belmont For the less expensive cars and then it’s up to $93 for a full day depending on which car you get.

Leo Laporte That’s kind of cool.

Veronica Belmont Yeah.

Leo Laporte So this is how – you know it’s funny how many people come up here in Zipcars.

Veronica Belmont It will make sense.

Leo Laporte It’s lot of San Franciscans, even people who are from out of town they know Zipcars here, I guess it’s in Boston and a few other towns.

Ryan Block Yeah.

Leo Laporte And yeah it’s car sharing is the thought.

Veronica Belmont It’s the parking that’s the hard time in San Francisco. So it’s nice to be able to know that there is a parking spot waiting for your car when you get back.

Leo Laporte Isn’t that awesome? That’s really…

Veronica Belmont Yeah.

Leo Laporte That’s worth $93 not to have the park. So more Facebook stuff, the network was down bad. They said it was a out of control error condition, they say they fixed it, but I – boy, it’s funny how people depend on Facebook. The chatroom, we were doing a show I think it was Thursday, it was going – Facebook is down, Facebook is down, I don’t know what to do.

Veronica Belmont Yeah I didn’t even notice, I was on the shoot all day.

Leo Laporte That’s why you’re working.

Veronica Belmont And so I had no idea what was going on, and I was like, oh, this sounds – something happened…

Leo Laporte Facebook is down. It’s like the worst thing that ever happened.

Veronica Belmont My crops are dying, help us, oh God!

Leo Laporte I think that’s to be honest that’s exactly what it is.

Veronica Belmont Who will milk my cows.

Leo Laporte Exactly what it is.

Veronica Belmont I saw some great Twitter post that I think was on Gawker or something, and it was just hilarious because they were like, can I sue Facebook if my crops die? Like no, no…

Leo Laporte J5 is telling me in the chatroom BugFrog on Twitter tweeted, ‘Facebook down, Congress considering emergency funds to help out Farmville farmers hurt by Facebook outage.’


Kara Swisher It’s funny.

Veronica Belmont It’s like the dust bowl, the Facebook dust bowl.

Leo Laporte We have a crisis. But these things happen, actually it’s kind of remarkable that Facebook is as reliable as it is given how much traffic it is – you know…

Ryan Block Yeah and especially considering that they basically have a consolidated server architecture.

Leo Laporte Right.

Ryan Block Right now, they’re basically based in Northern California.

Leo Laporte They don’t have CDN?

Ryan Block It’s not like…

Leo Laporte They don’t have farms everywhere and…?

Ryan Block Well I think they have a CDN, but it’s not like Google which has datacenters all around the world, dozens of them I think, they – Facebook is really pretty centralized actually. And they are trying to decentralize, but…

Leo Laporte Kara, you talked to Steve Jobs after the Apple event about paying Facebook.

Kara Swisher Yes. Yes.

Leo Laporte You have a good article on that. So what happened? Some are saying that they were negotiating for 18 months, Apple and Facebook.

Kara Swisher Yeah they were talking a long time and Steve, I think, purposely came over to me and said this, because he’d knew I’d write something, but he was sort of bellyaching about the negotiations, he called them onerous terms that Facebook used. And so he was very concerned about not being able to access Facebook. And I think they [indiscernible] (82:29) something to either connect or some other ways of accessing the API and he wasn’t able to do it in time. And so I guess they then went ahead and did it anyway, and then Facebook blocked them. So…

Leo Laporte Yeah, because on stage he showed…

Kara Swisher He showed it, oh yeah, no he showed it up on the site. And he was up on the site. So it was – I’m putting up my video up again – it was up on the site and it was there for sometime and said you could connect with your Facebook friends. He didn’t say Facebook Connect, he said connect with your Facebook friends, Facebook blocked them from doing what they wanted to do.

Ryan Block Yeah I got it early enough that I was able to do that initially.

Leo Laporte Oh you had it?

Ryan Block Yeah I had it for a little while later that day or I think the next morning it was gone.

Kara Swisher I didn’t have but wasn’t [indiscernible] (83:13).

Veronica Belmont [indiscernible] (83:13) I didn’t get it.

Kara Swisher So…

Veronica Belmont I didn’t get it.

Kara Swisher So – and they have still been in I guess discussions about how to do it. Some people who used to work at Facebook said [indiscernible] (83:23) just wasn’t true that [indiscernible] (83:26) to their system, others – obviously Facebook was saying that it was too many requests would have been a problem…

Leo Laporte Well it turned out that PING is kind of a waste of time, so I don’t think those 160 million iTunes users really are going to swap Facebook…

Veronica Belmont It is better that they’ve added the posting from your library now instead of...

Leo Laporte This is new now. So now they updated iTunes to 10.01 this week. And so what did they change Veronica?

Veronica Belmont Now you can comment on the music you already own instead of needing to do it from within iTunes store.

Kara Swisher Right.

Veronica Belmont So if you see something you like if you are really enjoying the new Arcade Fire album that you have already purchased you can just say it right from library instead of needing to go to their page on iTunes.

Leo Laporte They have like – a like button, very Facebooky…

Veronica Belmont Yeah, I think if you right click on it to get the other options from within the library...

Kara Swisher I think that is Facebook’s.

Veronica Belmont I mean individual…

Leo Laporte Is that Facebook’s like? No.

Veronica Belmont It looks like it.

Leo Laporte Should I click it, let’s see what happens.

Veronica Belmont That’s darn close. Absolutely nothing.

Leo Laporte Nothing, let’s go to my PING page.

Veronica Belmont Yeah I haven’t gotten a lot of news out of PING.

Leo Laporte Boy, if I were Facebook I would be a little miffed at that thumbs up right there. That did look a little bit like a…

Veronica Belmont So what exactly – I don’t even really know what I am supposed to be doing on PING. Like I go on it and people comment on stuff I buy, that’s it? That’s it, right? Am I missing something?

Leo Laporte And you can see what other people do.

Ryan Block Well I mean, what do you do on

Veronica Belmont I don’t really – I just [indiscernible] (84:44) mine myself.

Ryan Block I am saying what does one…

Leo Laporte So far from scrobbling, I don’t think this is close to scrobbling.

Ryan Block Well I am just saying these – the model…

Veronica Belmont It’s not automated.

Ryan Block The model I think is actually kind of interesting. Namely because it’s not too terribly unlike what I am doing. It is social networking based around products, in this case it’s music.

Veronica Belmont Yep.

Ryan Block I focus on products, on gadgets. The question is where do you…

Leo Laporte You like that?

Veronica Belmont Yeah I like your face head there.

Ryan Block The question is what do you do with the social interactions? How do you make it useful and interesting. You know it’s not the easiest problem in the world to solve…

Leo Laporte Well one way to do it is to integrate it to more social networks instead of just a walled PING garden.

Veronica Belmont Right, that’s – if it did work with Facebook, which I hope it will at some point, I would find that much more valuable. Integrated [indiscernible] (85:33) my other social networks, I’d find that much more valuable.

Leo Laporte Did you…

Ryan Block I mean it kind of kills me that they did this, since – I mean I would have liked to have seen them just buy from CBS Interactive and …

Kara Swisher From, yes, CBS Interactive.

Leo Laporte Did you ever find out Kara what the onerous terms were?

Kara Swisher Oh, I think they wanted I just – they didn’t – there was all kinds of things that Facebook wanted them to do in order to do it and they just didn’t – any terms for Steve Jobs will be onerous…

Leo Laporte Right. You want what? Terms?

Kara Swisher So I think he just didn’t – he didn’t want to follow their rules. They have rules and he doesn’t agree with them and he probably is correct in that and probably wouldn’t have been a big deal to do it.

Ryan Block Well as…

Kara Swisher I think the problem is look let’s – I mean Google is not very social, Apple is not very social.

Leo Laporte Right.

Kara Swisher Let’s – I mean there’s very little about Apple with social. They build all these socially helpful devices but they are certainly not social as a company with you.

Veronica Belmont What is…

Kara Swisher So this is what they are dipping their finger into – they’re dipping their toe into this area.

Veronica Belmont Please, please answer me if I am totally missing the mark on this, but what is stopping Apple just from using the developer API tools that Facebook gives out to anyone to integrate it? Like why do they need…

Leo Laporte They could.

Kara Swisher They are two…

Ryan Block Well they shut down your API, your key, they just shut down your…

Kara Swisher Because they don’t want you to use it…

Ryan Block They can just shut it.

Leo Laporte So the deal is if you are small enough you can, you don’t have to ask for permission.

Ryan Block This is what I was going to say, we integrated Facebook Connect right, and I didn’t have to go talk to Mark Zuckerberg in order to get permission to do that. And we’ve got tens or hundreds, I don’t even know how many thousands of users are using Facebook Connect on gdgt right now. But at what point do you draw that line?

Veronica Belmont Yeah, that’s what I am…

Ryan Block I mean is there – there isn’t like a number where it says like if you expect to have more than 50,000 users a day using this, you have to come out to us.

Leo Laporte Well Apple I think reasonably thought well, we got 160 million iTunes users. Facebook says they don’t like it, they are going to pull the plug. We got to make sure that they are not going to do that.

Ryan Block Well they are saying there is open and then there is open.

Kara Swisher They pulled the plug, the Apple deployed it, Facebook pulled the plug.

Veronica Belmont Yeah.

Leo Laporte Oh, interesting. So that actually happened. After 18 months of negotiations, Apple knew that Facebook wasn’t happy, they still did it and Facebook pulled the plug.

Kara Swisher Right exactly.

Veronica Belmont Well this makes Facebook look bad.

Ryan Block I mean if you – yeah exactly. If you are going to have an open API and you are going to publish all of your protocols and you are going to…

Veronica Belmont Right.

Leo Laporte Well I disagree. I don’t think it’s…

Ryan Block Yes, there are terms of service and yes there are scalability issues you have to deal with, I…

Leo Laporte I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say 160 million well maybe you better talk to us.

Ryan Block But I don’t think that this was about scale.

Kara Swisher Well although some very high ranking people at Facebook said it was not true, that it’s not that big a deal on their – it’s not a very big pull on their system.

Ryan Block Yeah. I don’t think this is about scale, I think this is about business terms.

Leo Laporte So why did they pull the plug? They don’t want to give Apple a leg up?

Kara Swisher I guess. They were kind of [indiscernible] (88:03).

Veronica Belmont Looks like jerks.

Leo Laporte Yeah it does kind of.

Kara Swisher It looks a lot like Facebook, it looks – like, the same color blue, I mean that’s [indiscernible] (88:10) situation. But that’s – it looks like Facebook. That’s why.

Veronica Belmont Well PING very little value there.

Leo Laporte I agree.

Veronica Belmont I mean I just don’t see the need to use it personally.

Leo Laporte I agree. And you know I have a situation and I wish they would add the feature as stupid, but my son and my daughter and my whole family buys stuff on my – we have one account. So for some reason all the rap music. I am not – I just want everybody to know that while I did like the Sonata No. 3 in D minor, that’s what I just liked, it was my son who pitched – who bought the No Hoe Remix Featuring E-40, Beeda Weeda and The Jacka. I did not buy Black by DLO. Although I rather enjoyed it after listening to it. Oh yeah, he likes the bass.

[Music clip]

Veronica Belmont You are pumping.

Leo Laporte He likes the bass.

Veronica Belmont Yeah.

Leo Laporte Oh yeah we are going to have bass.

Kara Swisher Slappin' Da Bass.

Veronica Belmont Slappin' Da Bass.

Leo Laporte Slappin' Da Bass.

Veronica Belmont Slappin' Da Bass.

Kara Swisher And it’s a hell of a movie.

Veronica Belmont Slappin' Da Bass.

Leo Laporte What movie was that? I didn’t see that movie.

Veronica Belmont I Love You Man, right?

Leo Laporte Oh, yeah I love that I Love You Man.

Veronica Belmont Slappin' Da Bass.

Leo Laporte Slappin' Da Bass. That was the strangest romance movie I have ever seen.

Kara Swisher It was so funny.

Leo Laporte [Indiscernible] (01:29:10).

Leo Laporte See, I think maybe girls like it more than guys. It made me uncomfortable.

Veronica Belmont You know why I think we like it? Because it makes us happy to think that guys have this like adorable relationships with each other.

Leo Laporte We don’t. We don’t.

Veronica Belmont We like to think…

Leo Laporte We don’t. That was a weird – don’t you think, did you see I Love You Man?

Ryan Block Yeah, no, we saw it together.

Leo Laporte Do you think that was normal the way those guys were relating?

Ryan Block Yeah, doesn’t that kind of – is that a metaphor for a certain bi relationship thing? That’s how you and I hang out.

Leo Laporte Is it how you and I get – come on I have a little…

Ryan Block That’s you and I hang out.

Leo Laporte Come into my man cave, we can play some real good jam together.

Ryan Block Exactly. You play some Rush, we smoke a little bud.

Veronica Belmont Oh that is not, no that never happens, no, no. That is – I need to monitor this man cave situation.

Leo Laporte I just want to be honest.

Veronica Belmont This isn’t sound good.

Leo Laporte Maybe I am weird but I – it’s – that’s too – I wouldn’t – I can’t – never.

Veronica Belmont You don’t bro down?

Leo Laporte No. Have you – maybe I am just too old…

Veronica Belmont You bro down.

Leo Laporte Do you do that? Do you and Peter…

Ryan Block Who are you?

Veronica Belmont I don’t even know what that means. I don’t know what that means.

Leo Laporte Do you and Peter – Ryan, you and Peter like bro down?

Ryan Block No, we just we work.

Leo Laporte Do you throw down the bro down?

Ryan Block We work a lot.

Veronica Belmont That’s a new one, haven’t heard throw down the bro down.

Leo Laporte I think the reason that people like that movie – women like that movie – is exactly what you said, they wish it were like that.

Veronica Belmont Yeah. We try to like, I try to like make little play dates and stuff. You are not interested.

Leo Laporte No. Our cave is our cave. We do not want anybody else in there.

Kara Swisher Well, listen, I don’t [indiscernible] (90:25) I just like slapping the bass.

Veronica Belmont Slapping the bass.


Leo Laporte ‘I could care less what men – what you guys are up to. But slapping the bass.’

Let’s see. What else. We got iPhone 4 for sale in China, did very poorly when it first came out, because it had no Wi-Fi. But I guess putting Wi-Fi in changed everything. Massive lines for the iPhone 4 yesterday when it went on sale in China. Sold out immediately. Of course, they only had 40,000 units. 1,000 people, they said 1,000 people were in line at The Apple Store in Beijing to buy the new iPhone 4 in China.

Veronica Belmont But that’s like ten people in the U.S., right?

Leo Laporte Yeah, actually that’s true.

Ryan Block Population, inflation.

Leo Laporte As a percentage of population, it’s not significant.

Veronica Belmont See I thought in – correct – I thought in Asian markets, it was more important to have the really high speed data connections rather than Wi-Fi, because they’re so – they’ve got the better infrastructure. Is that only in Japan or is that [indiscernible] (91:25) China as well?

Leo Laporte Well, certainly true in Japan. I don’t know what happens…

Veronica Belmont Because Wi-Fi is not widely available – at least open Wi-Fi networks is not hugely available in Japan. It’s just not really something they do as much, from my experience anyway.

Leo Laporte You might be right, actually. When I was in China, of course, I was mostly in the American hotels kind of thing and there was Wi-Fi there. But they certainly control Internet cafes and things like that, so…

Veronica Belmont Yeah, they’re all paid for, so people spend the whole day there.

Leo Laporte Right, so maybe Wi-Fi wasn’t the key.

Veronica Belmont Yeah, I’m was just wondering what the turning point was, if it really was Wi-Fi, if it was just something…

Ryan Block The iPhone 4 is certainly not lacking. I mean it does support HSDPA. They added a fourth UMTS band for Japan. So I mean…

Veronica Belmont A number of factors.

Ryan Block They’re certainly not ignoring the needs of the Asian market.

Leo Laporte China Unicom, the carrier – the Chinese government-owned carrier that has the iPhone 4 in China says 200,000 pre orders. 200,000 pre orders. But again, while that’s a lot for, say, the U.S., it’s not that many for a country where there are 1 billion phone subscribers, or 800,000.

Veronica Belmont Well, it’s expensive.

Leo Laporte Very expensive.

Ryan Block iPhone is an expensive phone and it’s a single phone. 200,000 phones is not a small amount of phones for any company. So…

Leo Laporte It’s a lot.

Ryan Block I get your point, but I mean I wouldn’t discount it.

Leo Laporte Its $905 without contract, subsided $754. So that’s a lot for an American. It’s a lot, even more for somebody in China.

Ryan Block There’s a lot of oligarchs out there, so.

Leo Laporte There must be 200,000 of them.

Veronica Belmont Yes, there are.

Leo Laporte There are 200,000 oligarchs in China. This isn’t one of them.

Snoop Dogg wants to buy a sports team with Zuck. He Tweeted it, so it must be true. He says ‘hey yo,’ see, I know how they talk, because I listen to the music. I’m down.

Veronica Belmont Yes, please read this in the…

Leo Laporte ‘Hey yo, somebody tell Zuckerberg to holler at me, he and I need to go buy a pro-sports team together.’

Veronica Belmont I’d love to see the two of them together.

[Music clip]

Veronica Belmont Yeah.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Ryan Block Yeah.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I’m so with it.

Kara Swisher You know, years ago, [indiscernible] (93:37) who started eBay, I asked him why he didn’t buy a sports team. And he said that – he says when you become a billionaire, everybody wants you to buy a sports team. But he was super interested in hotels, because he’s a metrosexual. And so he didn’t know what to do, he didn’t know. He has a lovely wife and everything, but he really liked hotels. And he felt terrible because he had no interest in buying a sports team.

Leo Laporte Does he have a man bag, man purse, man clutch like the [indiscernible] (94:00)?

Kara Swisher I don’t know – I don’t recall a man purse. But he has a beautiful hotel, I’ll tell you that.

Ryan Block Which hotel does he have?

Kara Swisher The – god, now I’m blanking. It’s down Laguna. I’m blanking. I’ll figure it out.

Leo Laporte Is it [indiscernible] (94:14) established this whole thing about the billionaires buying a sports team? Is that why? Is it…

Kara Swisher I must go back further than that.

Leo Laporte Paul Allen bought the Supersonics, so maybe it does, yeah. Paul Allen owns the Seahawks and the Supersonics.

Veronica Belmont If I ever become rich enough to buy a sports team…

Leo Laporte Who would you buy?

Veronica Belmont It depends.

Veronica Belmont I am going to bring back the Hartford Whalers.

Leo Laporte Isn’t that sweet, hockey.

Veronica Belmont Hockey.

Ryan Block It’s not a very…

Leo Laporte Not even…

Veronica Belmont I don’t even like hockey.

Ryan Block It’s not a very in vogue sports team…

Veronica Belmont No, I know. I just think it would be really fun.

Leo Laporte I was sure. I was sure she was going to say a roller derby team.

Veronica Belmont More funny than anything else.

Leo Laporte Don’t you think Veronica should like own a roller derby team?

Ryan Block I think you should own the entire league.

Leo Laporte The league!

Ryan Block I mean it’s small enough, I think you could own the entire league.

Leo Laporte The league?

Ryan Block I mean its small enough, I think if you get an entire league.

Leo Laporte The Bellmonts. [ph] Nikki Kremel (94:53) would…

Veronica Belmont Yeah, she’s hardcore.

Leo Laporte She’s scary.

Veronica Belmont I can’t do that. I’m far too fragile.

Leo Laporte No, no, I’m not saying – I know, I knew you wouldn’t escape.

Veronica Belmont Oh, is that a, is that a – are you saying I couldn’t?

Leo Laporte I thought you were far too fragile.

Veronica Belmont That sounds like a challenge.

Leo Laporte Do you want to...?

Veronica Belmont Well now that you’ve challenged me.

Leo Laporte You want to get out there?

Ryan Block I’m so staying out of this one.

Veronica Belmont I’m going to do some hair pulling…

Leo Laporte It’s time to bring back the San Francisco Bay Area Bombers.

Veronica Belmont Yeah. Hmm.

Leo Laporte Would you be, would you be one of those – what do they call them, that they launch them into the…

Veronica Belmont I’ll have a signature move, it will be called the Belmont boob bump.


Veronica Belmont I think I just made Leo blush!

Ryan Block You’ve thought about this, haven’t you?

Veronica Belmont Leo is blushing!

Ryan Block Yeah, he is feeling…

Kara Swisher Oh, what you have to bleep that?

Leo Laporte ‘She said boob.’

‘Ashton Kutcher little Twitter influence.’ A study conducted at Northwestern University determined that celebrities like Ashton Kutcher, Veronica Belmont with millions of Twitter followers are mostly ignored on the social media site, resulting in very little if any influence. You have how many, 1.2 million?

Veronica Belmont No, 1.6.

Leo Laporte I hate you.

Veronica Belmont I’m sorry. I never claimed to have any influence. But I think my audience is pretty engaged when we talk about stuff I get really good responses. You know I reply back to a lot of people. I think it’s a really good conversation tool.

Kara Swisher I got, I’ve quite a few about 700,000. But this is because I was on the suggested users list. And so..

Veronica Belmont Yeah me too.

Kara Swisher And so pretty much, pretty much every night I get like 10 Indian dudes asking me out on a date.

Leo Laporte ‘Hello Kara Swisher, you are beautiful will you like to go out on a date with me?’

Kara Swisher It means there is something wrong with them, obviously.

Leo Laporte Why, so I don’t get it. What is the…?

Kara Swisher You know there is a probably a group that are very interested in what I’ve to say but most of my people on there have no interest in…

Leo Laporte ‘You know in my country, Kara means boobie.’

Veronica Belmont You know, its like, its I’m really happy there are a lot of people who may not have been familiar with my work and found me through Twitter. I think that’s great.

Leo Laporte I think it’s very powerful.

Veronica Belmont But if they are not interested in the subject matter then they are totally free to un-follow me. It’s no big deal. I like having the conversations that I’m having with people, and we have a lot of fun. And I think that’s valuable in itself. I don’t need to be influential.

Ryan Block I think the true power of Twitter is not following the mega users right, the Veronica Belmonts of the world, although you know I’m follower and I have to say I’m a big fan Veronica.

Veronica Belmont Thank you, thank you.

Ryan Block You know, it’s that network of people that you know who are posting links and saying things that you care about.

Veronica Belmont I mean I hardly use Google Reader anymore, just because all the great news of the day kind of floats to the top for me on Twitter. And...

Kara Swisher Yeah, I find…

Veronica Belmont And you follow the people you find interesting.

Kara Swisher It’s one of the most useful tools for me at least, I mean I find it useful and interesting and serendipity, all kind of stuff going on.

Veronica Belmont Yeah.

Kara Swisher Big fan.

Veronica Belmont So I don’t know what Ashton Kutcher’s deal is, but we’re happy.

Leo Laporte Well, I went to the – these guys, these professors at Northwestern made a website called pulse of the Tweeters, it’s the worst website I’ve ever seen. These guys, I don’t know who they are. This is their website. This looks like tag cloud, it not…

Veronica Belmont I love how everything’s in capital letters.

Leo Laporte It’s not. This tag cloud is not a tag cloud, it is right-justified text.

Kara Swisher No, it’s, it’s just justified.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Pulse of the Tweeters uses data mining, sentiment analysis – yeah, I like the caps – and network analysis.

Veronica Belmont Algorithms. Algorithms should have been capitalized, if they’re going to continue on that trend.

Leo Laporte Oh, yeah. Well if you’re going to capitalize nouns, capitalize them all. But I can’t – okay, I’m on this site, find the most useful influential users on Twitter, I can’t, so what click ranking, right? No. Click about. No. There isn’t any ranking on here. This is the trending topics, but that comes from somebody else, I don’t understand this site.

Kara Swisher Where did you find this?

Leo Laporte These are the guys that said that Ashton Kutcher is not influential. Guys, you are not influential.

Kara Swisher That’s a poorly sourced article.

Leo Laporte Northwestern professor Alok Choudhary and graduate student Ramanathan Narayanan say that if a celebrity tweets about his or her area of expertise, he or she may actually have some influence in that case. So if Ashton says, you know, when I’m trying to get to stand on my mark and a cinematographer wanders through the shot, that’s very distracting. Then they might have influence. But an actor’s political statements for interest generally don’t hold weight as those Twitted by political analysts.

Kara Swisher I don’t know about the movies for Ashton Kutcher. He hasn’t had a hit in a long time.

Leo Laporte Well, wait, he just had a hit. What was that movie that he was in?

Kara Swisher Killers?

Leo Laporte Yeah, wasn’t that a hit?

Kara Swisher No, no it was not, my friend.


Leo Laporte Well, he was in a movie, that’s more than I can say.

Kara Swisher Well, that’s true.

Ryan Block Somewhere, Ashton is cursing you, Kara.

Kara Swisher That’s not you goal, Leo, is it?

Leo Laporte To be in a movie?

Kara Swisher To be successful in your chosen profession.

Leo Laporte Who doesn’t want to be in the movies?

Kara Swisher Me.

Veronica Belmont I’m a terrible actor.

Kara Swisher I don’t want to be in a movie.

Ryan Block I’ve been in a movie before.

Veronica Belmont What?

Leo Laporte Have you, what was your movie?

Ryan Block I wasn’t in it, I wasn’t starring, but I was in it.

Leo Laporte You were like an extra?

Ryan Block No, I was in the audience of – god, what was the John Waters stand up movie that came out a couple of years ago?

Leo Laporte Oh yeah, yeah you were in the audience.

Ryan Block The filthy something. Yeah, I was like – I was like right in the front of the audience.

Veronica Belmont Well, that doesn’t count.

Ryan Block No, but I was – it was a movie and I was in it.

Leo Laporte I just want to tell anybody –

Ryan Block Actually, I did an extra in a couple of movies; I can’t remember what the names are.

Leo Laporte Anybody who is saying –

Ryan Block I don’t know you live in New York for a while these things happen.

Leo Laporte This thing has any influence?

Veronica Belmont I learn new things about it everyday.

Leo Laporte I would like to be in a movie. I am just saying, that’s where you’ll find Ryan’s splash page and a monster picture of him. That’s nice though. It’s beautiful picture.

Veronica Belmont So handsome.

Ryan Block Actually, Veronica took that picture.

Veronica Belmont I did.

Leo Laporte That’s beautiful

Kara Swisher You look good, though.

Leo Laporte Veronica’s on here too. She’s You want to see another big picture?

Kara Swisher Yeah, please.

Leo Laporte Monster picture. Wait a minute, here comes – here comes. Wait for it.

Veronica Belmont So I am going to take a look.

Leo Laporte Monster picture. So the idea is like a big splash page about – but everything that you do is right here.

Veronica Belmont Yeah.

Kara Swisher Yeah.

Leo Laporte That’s cool.

Ryan Block Harmonica Belmontdo.

Veronica Belmont Harmonica Belmontdo, yes. There was a joke on that 7x7 article like if you search me on that website, the first result was Harmonica Belmonto until they actually posted the article online.

Kara Swisher I like Amber, I’m calling you Amber from now on.

Veronica Belmont Oh, no.

Leo Laporte Amber, it’s because of Amber MacArthur, it’s a woman’s name.

Veronica Belmont No, that’s a compliment. That is a total compliment.

Leo Laporte So hot – you’re at the hot 20 under 40.

Veronica Belmont I was part of that list, yes.

Ryan Block You are that list.

Leo Laporte Holy Molly.

Veronica Belmont People were very surprised to learn that I have legs behind that.

Leo Laporte That’s on the – that’s on the set.

Ryan Block Well, I mean if we’re really just watching you on this show, for example --

Veronica Belmont No, you would never know. Like Tekzilla said you would never have realized.

Ryan Block You might not have legs.

Leo Laporte You will never – you will never see Veronica’s legs on Tekzilla but now thanks to 7x7.

Veronica Belmont I want to see Ryan’s legs right now. That’s the situation.

Kara Swisher Ow!

Ryan Block Here they are.

Veronica Belmont Jean clad as usual.

Leo Laporte Jean clad as usual, yeah. But they are stretch jeans. Kara, I want to thank you so much for being here. Kara Swisher is at or go to just to eliminate all the other waste of space and just see her stuff.

Kara Swisher No way, they are so good.

Leo Laporte AllThingsD is a great site, really great site. You get all the scoops including what did you call it, Sweat-a-palooza?

Kara Swisher Sweat-a-palooza, I don’t know.

Leo Laporte That’s a good name for it.

Kara Swisher Right name for it.

Leo Laporte I like that.

Kara Swisher Like Sweat Gate, I guess, we have to put a gate behind it.

Leo Laporte Sweat Gate.

Kara Swisher I guess.

Leo Laporte Sweat Gate. No, Sweat-a-palooza is so much more interesting.

Kara Swisher It was Apalooza.

Leo Laporte It was Apalooza. Thank you, Kara for being here. We really appreciate it.

Kara Swisher No problem.

Leo Laporte Veronica Belmont is going to head back in her Zipcar.

Veronica Belmont No, I’m driving in the passenger seat.

Leo Laporte In the passenger seat. is a place to go. Of course, again and other big place to find out what Veronica is up to and don’t forget Tekzilla, with my good buddy, Patrick Norton. Three times a week, five times a week?

Veronica Belmont We have the daily episode, five days a week and another weekly episode every Thursday.

Leo Laporte That’s right, that’s right. You do the daily episode now?

Veronica Belmont Yeah.

Leo Laporte That’s right, yeah. And Ryan Belmont? That was mean. I had to do that.

Veronica Belmont I like that.

Ryan Block You know, it’s actually true, your name carries more weight than mine does, at least on Twitter.

Leo Laporte How many you guys – how many Twitter followers?

Ryan Block That certainly not as many as Veronica.

Leo Laporte But you and I, dude, we weren’t on the suggested user list. We earned.

Veronica Belmont That’s true, true.

Ryan Block But you know, you left Twitter for a while. So you know –

Leo Laporte I lost – I was when I left Twitter in like 2000, it’s like April 2007. When I left Twitter, I had – I was the number one – this is how long ago this was. I was the number one most followed person on Twitter, 5,000 followers.

Veronica Belmont Yeah, I was the top female for really a long time, it’s like a few spaces underneath you.

Ryan Block I was – there was a while I was in the top 100 I think but I was never been that well followed.

Leo Laporte Well, you got the one name thing. You got the Elvis thing, you know.

Kara Swisher You know you guys need to get other goals here. I know.

Ryan Block Trust me that’s not one of my goals.

Leo Laporte No, it’s not.

Ryan Block Because if it were, I would have a lot more followers, Kara. Thank you very much.

Leo Laporte If it were you’d be depressed you got 37,075 followers –

Veronica Belmont He is doing well for himself.

Leo Laporte Everybody should follow @ Ryan on Twitter.

Kara Swisher I am following you because –

Leo Laporte See, I’m already following. I don’t have to – I am already following it.

Ryan Block Thanks, everybody.

Leo Laporte Yeah, thanks, everybody, taking me a Twitter, a Twitter user.

Ryan Block You can follow me on

Leo Laporte That’s the place to follow him.

Ryan Block Yeah.

Leo Laporte

Ryan Block You can see my all my gadgets.

Leo Laporte Yeah, it’s kind of fun, isn’t it?

Ryan Block I mean the funny thing is people still haven’t quite got – I get a lot of questions “oh! What router do you use?” You don’t have to ask me.

Leo Laporte It’s right there.

Ryan Block Yeah, I created a whole website for this thing. Just go.

Leo Laporte Now, can I – if I were going to follow you on gdgt, do I search for you or just a /ryan, is it a—

Ryan Block Yeah, you can just do /ryan.

Leo Laporte And I am /leolaporte like that, you know.

Ryan Block That’s actually I think – that’s only for a couple of the employees, makes it a little bit easier.

Veronica Belmont There he is, there he is.

Leo Laporte Let me see if I can --

Kara Swisher This has been delightful but I have got to go and see the Owls of Ga'Hoole.

Leo Laporte Too exciting.

Kara Swisher Yeah, yeah.

Leo Laporte Is it Ga’Hool or Ga’Hoole?

Kara Swisher I have no idea.

Leo Laporte I think it’s Ga’Hoole.

Veronica Belmont Those owls are awesome.

Kara Swisher And I’m going to sleep during the entire three day [indiscernible] (105:17)…

Leo Laporte It will be very relaxing. Thank you, Kara. We really appreciate you joining us.

Kara Swisher No problem. Thanks a lot.

Leo Laporte Take care.

Kara Swisher Thank you.

Leo Laporte And thank you all for joining us. We can do the show together every Sunday about 3:00 PM. You know there are about Pacific Time, 6:00 PM Eastern, that’s 2200 UTC for those of you who live on the Greenwich Mean Line right there. The rest of you just figure it out., the chatroom is and don’t forget if you need tech news all week long Tom Merritt does his thing with TNT 2:30 Pacific, 5:30 Eastern at live fresh tech news unlike the stale stuff you get from us. Thanks for being here. We’ll see you next time.

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