TWiT 186/Transcript

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Episode 186


This transcript is provided by our friends at Pods in Print

Leo Laporte Bandwidth for this WEEK in TECH is provided by AOL Radio at


This is TWiT, this WEEK in TECH, Episode 186 for March 16, 2009, TWiTs In Space.

This WEEK in TECH is brought to you by, the fast and easy way to publish a high quality website or blog. For a free trial and 10% off your new account, go to, and by Sign up for the Platinum plan and get two free books. Go to, and by GoToMeeting. For your free thirty-day trial, visit

It’s time for TWiT, this WEEK in TECH, episode 186. A grand party here going on. In studio with us Alex Lindsay from the Pixel Corps.

Alex Lindsay Hello, hello.

Leo Laporte He’s always in studio. He kind of lives under the desk. It’s a great thing.

Alex Lindsay Yeah, you know, it’s actually pretty comfortable after you get used to the squishyness. You know you just have to be in the fetal position all the time. That’s not a problem.

Leo Laporte Also here and he was just telling me he hasn’t been on in like eight months. I feel – I am so sorry, David Prager. It’s great to have you.

David Prager I am very thrilled to be back.

Leo Laporte Revision3 Executive. Executive. That’s what it said in the paper. I had to laugh.

Leo Laporte Also here Bwana McCall from Hey, Bwana.

Bwana McCall Hey, Leo, how are you doing, man?

Leo Laporte Coming from his beautiful studio. You stream on Ustream, right?

Bwana McCall Yes, although I am looking at other alternatives. So, I am looking around.

Leo Laporte Are you?

Bwana McCall Yes, yes, I was looking at Stickam. I was trying the other day. They had some new hi-def stuff. So, I am just exploring all avenues.

Leo Laporte You know what we have decided to do, and I am kind of excited about this, we’ve decided not to be exclusive any more. We were exclusive with Stickam and the problem with that it is a single point of failure, right? Stickam goes.

Bwana McCall Yes, yes.

Leo Laporte So, we talked to them, we said do you mind if we, so we are going to be on Ustream, we are going to be on Stickam, and we are going to be on Bit Gravity. So, there will be three ways to watch and you get to pick which one you like best. There will be chat rooms with each, there’s David.

Alex Lindsay Awesome.

Leo Laporte We lost Mr. Prager. We are going to talk to him in a second because he got a home invasion.

Alex Lindsay He was the home invasion.

Leo Laporte He was home-invaded and I got to talk to him about that. Also with us John C. Dvorak from his mountain layer, SkullCrusher Mountain, up in Port Angeles, Washington. Hi, John.

John C. Dvorak Hello.

Leo Laporte And a newby, we are really glad to have Peter Rojas with us, the legendary Peter Rojas.

Peter Rojas Thanks for having me.

Leo Laporte It’s so nice to have you. Founder of Engadget and now co-host of the gdgt podcast with Ryan Block and soon to launch a gdgt community. Can I call it gadget or gdgt?

Peter Rojas Gdgt. You can call it gadget if you want. Leo Laporte It’s actually probably better to say gdgt.

Peter Rojas It’s a little more distinctive.

Leo Laporte Yes, and that phone call in the background, that’s David L. Prager. Maybe he got a home invasion. Maybe somebody broke in. That was going to be our top story but we will get to some other stories. I think one story very interesting this week, and you know I am not sure if I put it in the rundown. George Stephanopoulos is going to interview former presidential candidate John McCain, now senator from Arizona, on Twitter.

Alex Lindsay Now, the question is, is it a twitterview or is it a twinterview.

Leo Laporte Both of them sound terrible.

Alex Lindsay Yeah they do.

Leo Laporte How can you interview somebody in a 140 – I could see the questions could be 140 characters. How can John McCain answer in 140 characters?

Alex Lindsay Succinctly.

John C. Dvorak What’s the point is the bigger question when they’re both living in the same town and they could just walk over to his studio. He has got a studio. I am sure that Stephanopoulos shoots that in Washington D.C.

Leo Laporte So, this stuff is really...

John C. Dvorak I don’t get it. It’s a gimmick. This is an out and out publicity stunt gimmick.

Alex Lindsay And it’s going to work. Bwana McCall I agree.

John C. Dvorak Listen, I’m not going to follow it.

Leo Laporte This Twitter stuff has gone too far.

Alex Lindsay Well, you know John McCain is now far more active on Twitter than Barrack Obama.

Leo Laporte He is? John McCain? And I think...

Alex Lindsay Yes, he is.

Leo Laporte It’s not a staffer. What do you, Bwana? You think it’s really him or...?

Bwana McCall I don’t know. I can’t tell really. His Tweets are kind of weird. Very general.

Leo Laporte They’re policy Tweets.

John C. Dvorak Sounds like it could be a staffer to me.

Bwana McCall Yes.

Leo Laporte What’s the story? I mean this Twitter thing is getting big. Someday, I think they are going to have a future.

Alex Lindsay Leo, by the way, you were mentioning this recently and I didn’t notice this before where all of a sudden Twitter itself is recommending people.

Leo Laporte Yes.

John C. Dvorak And they recommend somebody and the numbers go flying. It’s like who are they – why are they recommending anybody and why are they recommending these people? Do you have to pay them?

Leo Laporte Jason Calacanis did an interesting thing this week. He twittered: I hereby offer Twitter a quarter of a million dollars if they will put me on their suggested list for a guaranteed two years, and his thinking is that that's a guaranteed million followers, right? At least. So when people who are on the suggested list are adding right now about 10,000 followers a day. So, it's millions. It's basically – I mean it's huge, and he says this is worth money. So, I asked him, I said Jason are you serious, is this a joke. He said. I'm serious but really I'm just trying to help Ev out by establishing the price because this is going to happen. That's what this is all about.

Bwana McCall Yes, I figured he was just...

John C. Dvorak Are you suggesting that the system is corrupt?

Leo Laporte Well, it’s a little corrupt right now because neither you nor I are on that recommended list. Alex Lindsay It will be up on up and up once we’re all, once we’ve all been recommended.

Leo Laporte Yes, as soon as this – no, I don’t want to be because...

Alex Lindsay The more we complain the less like that’s about to happen.

Leo Laporte You know it's interesting who they put on but even more interesting who they didn’t put on, and we have talked about it before. I just think that it’s setting up for the way that they’re planning to monetize. I am not sure it’s such a good idea. You know the number three person right after – okay, number one CNN, number two Barrack Obama, number three Britney Spears.

Alex Lindsay And she wasn’t getting any traction before she was recommended. I mean...

Leo Laporte It’s all about the recommendation.

Alex Lindsay Yes.

Leo Laporte But what I am saying is, is this what Twitter wants to be seen as, as the Barrack Obama and Britney Spears channel.

Alex Lindsay But I don’t know. I think there was a lot of people that added it but I think that there is also a huge number of twitterers who don’t even follow those two or many of the top 10. Leo Laporte No. In fact I'm happy to have, I just crossed 100,000, I’m happy to have that number without the inflationary suggested list because I know those are people who have actively sought me out

Alex Lindsay Right, I think that those numbers, those 240,000 are newbys who just kind of add, oh well, I’ll just put some people on and because there's a lot of people that are coming into the Twitter market because of things like this interview with John McCain.

Leo Laporte [7:14] Not just that, Ellen DeGeneres this week. P. Diddy talks her into creating The Ellen Show tweet. She’s now in the top 10 or top 20.

Alex Lindsay It’s ridiculous. You know the funny thing is that I got a bunch of mail bitching about the fact that we even talk about Twitter at all. And the fact that they’ve gone off in this direction which is just basically corrupt. I think we should just stop talking about it and get the real news and we just let this slide.

Leo Laporte Good, deal with me. I messed up last week. I didn't mention the fact, I ran out of time and I forgot to mention the fact that President Obama named a federal CIO, the guy in charge of technology for the federal government. Probably good that I didn't.

Alex Lindsay He wasn’t there for very long.

Leo Laporte Probably a good thing. Vivek Kundra, who was the Washington DC Chief Technology Officer, had to step down, at least temporarily. It seems that the day President Obama announced his appointment or shortly thereafter the FBI raided his office, arrested two as part of a bribery sting including his number two, Yusuf Acar and Sushil Bansal. They say, now Kundra is not implicated in any way. Nevertheless, I think quite wisely he said, maybe I better take a little leave of absence till this is all sorted out.

Bwana McCall The timing was a little bit suspect wasn’t it – as soon as he becomes CIO, okay let’s go in now, let’s go in right now and get him. It just seemed a little bit convenient for me.

Leo Laporte What's the – what do you think? I mean, why would they, were they trying to take him down?

Bwana McCall I have no idea. I have no idea, I can't think of any kind of motive. There’s something that we don't know that will explain everything, that's the way I'm looking at it.

John C. Dvorak Let me throw something in, when you said the timing was bad, I mean it's possible that the FBI was going to put this off forever with these guys and now they got access to the deeper, deeper part of the White House or whatever they have to move in. I don't think it was a timing thing, necessarily, there could be some big deal. Then again the whole thing could be just a scam but I suspected they had to do it because now these guys are moving in deeper and if there's something they were doing that was corrupt they have to move immediately.

Alex Lindsay Also they haven't – they've stated that he is not under investigation. They're not part of the ……..

John C. Dvorak They were pretty clear about that.

Alex Lindsay Yes so they've been really clear it's not about him.

Leo Laporte But can I say something? It tarnishes the whole office if his number two is being arrested for bribery. It's like saying yes; Madoff’s wife didn't know a thing about it. It's a little suspicious.

Alex Lindsay You’re either corrupt or inept.

Leo Laporte Yes, either way it's not so good.

Alex Lindsay Right, yes.

Leo Laporte Well, anyway I'm glad I didn’t bring it up last week because the story got enriched. Speaking of enriched we’ve got David back.

David Prager Sorry about that. I don't know what happened, if you’re in someone else's house. I guess you seem to reset their modem every once in a while.

Leo Laporte That’s okay. Move your iPhone away from the microphone. And..

David Prager Oh, can you hear that?

Leo Laporte Yeah. I’ve got to talk to David because, David, this week I am going to – we're going to take a break and I'm going to ask you about this, David, this week did the most amazing thing and it's very typical Web 2.0 behaviour. Guy breaks into your house, passes out in your bed what do you do? Oh! I know what to do you. You start a Ustream feed, send video out and Twitter it. We’ve got to find out what the hell you were thinking, David, in just a second. No, no that’s called a tease, David.

David Prager It’s a good tease.

Leo Laporte What the hell was David thinking? We’ll find out in just a moment. But first this word from Sarah Lane, I know is sitting right next to you, David, her blog is now on Squarespace I notice Kevin. Kevin Rose is on Squarespace.

David Prager Yes.

Leo Laporte I started talking with these guys. I was really impressed with the technology. Squarespace is – I want to say a blog engine but it's really more, because they have incredible templates for photographers for instance, so you get automatic light table and all that stuff. It’s just beautiful.

Peter Rojas We’re moving some of our…

Leo Laporte Are you?

Peter Rojas Yes. We're going to be moving a bunch of stuff to Squarespace.

Leo Laporte We're going to move our company blog over there inside TWiT, and I'm talking to them about maybe even more because I'm just – it's so cool.

Peter Rojas It's so fluid.

David Prager And also the web building tools that they provide….

Peter Rojas Yes.

Leo Laporte Oh, yes.

David Prager …. which makes it absolutely incredible and I had no idea there were sponsoring, I'm thrilled because we've had people that sponsor some of the things that we do and sometimes you're not – you're a little bit less excited and what they have to offer, I’m really excited talk about, I’m really excited about what they can do. And then you know that TWiT is the perfect show for them to go after as well.

Leo Laporte It’s kind of a neat story. Yes, I never heard about them before and everybody pays attention to word and and Vox and Tumblr. And I hadn't really heard about them, so I talked to the guy behind it.

David Prager Dane Atkinson?

Leo Laporte Well, Dane and then…

David Prager And then that guy who built the entire platform….

Leo Laporte The guy who did it, he was a young guy. He's like in his mid-twenties. Oh, now I’m going to be mad at myself, I can't remember his name. I'll find it.

Alex Lindsay We’ll try to think of it.

Leo Laporte But I was so impressed at his thinking in this and what's kind of neat is, he has designed something that is really easy for anybody set up a blog and, this is what blew me away. Okay, easy import from WordPress and TypePad and the, you know, blogger. But also and export back out into it so it's not a one way, it’s not a roach motel. A lot of sites, I’m not going to name names make it really easy for you to get your blog in there and make it impossible to get out.

Alex Lindsay And I think that one of the things that we're looking at is for a handful of support sites for some of our shows. We're looking at using Squarespace because we don't want to have a single developer that we have to. It has to be their time if they are not available or something isn't there, there's going to be a group of us that can make adjustments, change things, administer the entire thing, and change the entire structure if we need to without anybody with very much technical experience at all.

Leo Laporte Let me read you an email and then we’re going to get to David's story

David Prager It’s Anthony Casalino.

Leo Laporte That’s it, Anthony.

David Prager And he custom built the entire thing and he did such a darn good job of it that they didn’t even have to take dime of funding. He just built the whole thing.

Leo Laporte Yes, that’s right.

David Prager He got Dane onboard and it's a phenomenal platform.

Leo Laporte It’s, you know what is cool, it scales very well. They have this virtual machine technology that you never run out of bandwidth, you just add more and it's – and everybody benefits when they add one more machine, everybody benefits, it’s very clever. So let me read you, Phil Grey just sent me an email. He said just a quick note to say well done in picking up the sponsorship deal from Squarespace. I was listening to TWiT podcast Monday night Sydney Time whilst looking at some options to build a website for a new business venture I’m about to launch. I heard you talk about Squarespace. I’ve been playing with it for three days now. My site will be ready to go live early next week, the plugins are great, the whole experience feels very slick but most importantly their tech support is first class. I’m so impressed I’ve upgraded to a paid tier 1 account, that’s the top account, just three days into my trial period. And by the way, you got that 10% discount too.

So Phil Grey,, I’m going to give you a plug, Phil. And invite everybody to go to – you could try it free for two weeks. If you sign up 10% off when you use our names: – we thank them. I'm really glad to have them on board. It's really interesting how sometimes something like this could just grab everybody's attention and the whole community goes yes. You know it's kind of like the right thing at the right time.

So, David, you left your door open. Do you live in Potrero, where do you live?

David Prager I live in Potrero Hill yes.

Leo Laporte Okay, not a great neighbourhood.

David Prager You know. I’ll show you what’s weird, it’s one of the most, it’s one of the greatest neighbourhoods in the city except on the – what they call the North Slope, it has some of the best views in the city. And once you get over to the South…

Leo Laporte Oh, I love it, and it's warmer, and you – it's banana, it’s you know kind of – it's really banana belt – it’s beautiful.

David Prager Yeah, but once you get in the South Slope – you really almost get into the “projects” even within a few blocks but …

Leo Laporte Well, we were there, TechTV was there.

David Prager I live up a small little alley…

Leo Laporte TechTV was a few blocks away. We would have armed robberies once in a while, I’m a friend of TechTV. Remember David, the guys puts the revolver up his nose and says give me your laptop, sir.

David Prager But we had the neighbours next door that hated us. The neighbour’s next door to the studio that hated us. Remember them.

Leo Laporte Yes they hated us. They had that big dog. Oh man they had like a Doberman, where they’d come out – it scared our guests. Who was that it scared, we had a guest come out. I yelled at the guy, I said, dude we're trying to do a television network here our guests come out of the door and you're Doberman attacks them. There's a leash on this – oh he was awful.

David Prager And he would always park like a Ferrari or some other designer car kind of sideways across the front of the door that …

Leo Laporte I was a little suspicious about his… He was a construction guy, but, something else going on in there. I don't know what was going on. Anyway you leave your door unlocked, again I don't know why but you're trusting guy right David that’s it.

David Prager Well if you've really seen my – where I live. It's up an alley and there's a small little patio. And it's private enough that I’ll just leave things. I'll leave things on the patio that I know could get stolen but it's not a big deal to me and in the three years I’ve lived there nothing has ever been taken from there. So I'd say darn near 20% of every night I probably just kind of don’t lock the door. I do now.

Leo Laporte So what happened? Was this Thursday night?

David Prager It was – I don't know what night it was. Maybe Wednesday of last week or something like that?

Leo Laporte Because I'm reading about it the next day, there's a long – lot of Tweets.

David Prager Yeah.

Leo Laporte But some guy wanders in.

David Prager Yes so he – what I guess what no one’s done it. I'm surprised. A lot of feedback and you think about journalism a little bit and you realize that if people are going to be writing things and they are having a platform as a blogger or even as you know – more – a journalist that’s been around a lot longer. You’d think as a news gatherer you would go and seek the source before you report. Some I’m kind of surprised about how many people would say things and their sources were the commenters rather than like – why don’t you try to even e-mail the person who was involved. I kind of don't care that much. If people want to say things about it or not but I'm surprised how many people say things as a journalistic entity without actually looking for sources which is like, I'm right here.

Leo Laporte So, you mean a lot of these newspaper stories, they never even contacted you.

David Prager Oh none, none. I was contacted by ABC. I was contacted by – I think that’s it.

Leo Laporte This is a good test.

David Prager Two places, two places contacted me. And everyone else, including the Registrar Newspaper in Sydney and a couple of other places.

Leo Laporte You’re were in the U.K. – you were in the English papers.

David Prager I was surprised. I was surprised with the reaction. However, if I think back at it, the novelty of what I was doing seems like it's newsworthy so it does make sense.

Leo Laporte It is newsworthy. Okay – so the guy wonders in, passes out in your bed. You do…

David Prager No, he didn’t do that.

Leo Laporte First, he went to the bathroom?

David Prager So what I was getting at by saying no one contacted me is that no one actually knows the full story.

Leo Laporte Oh good let’s hear it.

David Prager So, because no one asked. I came home at about one in the morning. I'd been with some friends who I hadn't seen in a while. So I came home at one. I hadn't slept a lot since the time change. I had been getting about five hours of sleep – sometimes four. So, I was pretty tired. So I come home, walk in the door at one in the morning. I sit on my couch and the lights are on. And I live in a studio apartment, I still live in a tiny studio apartment which is funny but I still do. And so I sit on the couch and I fall asleep while sitting on the couch. So I’ve got all my clothes on, the lights are on and I’m sitting on the couch I fall asleep. So, I didn’t even lock the door and yes I sometimes leave it unlocked because I don't think to do it. But so, I guess I was asleep for two hours, two hours pass. And I wake up because I hear a rustling of my door opening. And so I see a person walk in. And as I see this person walk in I'm trying to get my senses of, I'm waking up, what's going on? Is this someone I know? What's – what's – what's going on. And then by the time I am fully awake and cognizant, I see a guy very much – I don’t know if he was inebriated or drunk or what – but completely out of control and stumble past me and into the bathroom. And so by the time…

Leo Laporte My diagnosis from watching the video was qwaylutes [ph].

David Prager I don't know maybe. No, he didn't even smelled of alcohol but by the time I was …

Leo Laporte He had B.O. though, I know you twittered that.

David Prager Yeah I did say that. So by the time I was cognizant I saw a completely out of it – completely out of control and not with himself individual stumble, barely able to walk into my bathroom. And so I sat there dumbfounded and I thought really, did that really just happened? But immediately because of the fact that he was so out of it I didn't feel threatened. And so I totally agree with a lot of the people that said – you should have called the cops. And I probably...

Leo Laporte What did you do? You whipped out your iPhone and you Twittered.

David Prager Yes so I thought yes may be I should’ve called the cops. But the reason that I didn't – the reason I didn't, I’m not saying I shouldn't have but I kind of am okay with not having done it. The reason that I didn't is because I did not feel at all that my safety was in danger. I felt more annoyed, I thought…

Leo Laporte The first Tweet is, okay maybe I should lock my door, I swear a random dude just walked in to my bathroom. And I can't believe I've, I haven't freaked out. That was 3:14 AM.

David Prager So, but what was going through my head when that happened, I thought okay there's a guy in my bathroom I don't feel threatened. I kind of want to go to bed and now I'm annoyed that there's a guy here and then the next thing I thought is I've got a phone in my hand and, just like you and just like most of the people listening to the show, have a Twitter account and so once I had my phone in my hand and I knew I had a Twitter account and luckily I have a decent number of followers, you have a lot more than I do. I thought this is very ironic and strange and...

Leo Laporte So, your first impulse was not to call the cops.

David Prager Well my first impulse is, I think your first impulse is, am I okay, am I worried for my safety...

Leo Laporte Like, what the hell is going on, yes.

David Prager If I was worried for my safety, I guarantee I would have either punched the guy in the head, or call the cops or run. And I wasn’t concerned for myself and again granted maybe I should have been but I wasn’t. So, I thought I am not worried about myself and as soon as that is alleviated then I am going to start telling people about what’s going on.

Leo Laporte He was…

David Prager Because I think it’s strange.

Leo Laporte He was relatively well dressed right, he didn’t seem like he was a street person?

David Prager So, I don’t think he was homeless, I think…

Leo Laporte He was out of it, he was just stoned.

David Prager He was out of it, he had been on drugs, he had been partying or all of whatever kind of the above you want to add in there and so I Twittered the first one and I hit refresh from my phone and I automatically even at 3 in the morning I had five or six or seven responses and so then I started leaving my stream of consciousness on there. I’m like, maybe I’ll go in there.

Leo Laporte It was an event.

David Prager And then I though, he was still in there, and so I even said something funny, I said well there is no toilet people in there, may be that’s why he’s still in there. And then once I realized that I was giving a blow by blow on the phone and I really wanted to do something, because quite frankly I wanted to get him out so I could go to bed, and obviously I wasn’t calling the cops by that point, and part of the reason I didn’t is because I felt safe and I didn’t want to have to deal with the cops coming over, writing a report and doing all of that. So, finally as I am doing the blow the blow on Twitter, I realize, well I have got a computer with a camera and a microphone, I can set up a Ustream live feed in about 10 seconds.

Leo Laporte You are so Web 2.0.

David Prager So, I did it, so I did it and if anything, I mean if something happens you better believe they are going to see it. So, if something bad happens or not, somebody’s going to call the cops.

Leo Laporte That’s why I never worry, because if somebody’s going to off me, at least they are going to do on camera.

David Prager Yeah, right.

Leo Laporte So I feel safe.

David Prager So, now that I think about it, I mean the people that were actually, a lot of people read it the next day, most of the people did and saw the video which I should have captured but I didn’t, but someone was screen recording it. But, if I was seeing this as it happened, I can tell that it would have been quite riveting and I am surprised about how many people…

Leo Laporte People thought, David that it might be a fake, because it was so compelling, it was like, well may be this is just some sort of staged event.

David Prager And I, that makes sense that you would think that. You know me, I don’t...

Leo Laporte No, I don’t think you’d stage it

David Prager Kevin knows me, and Sarah knows me, and the people that know me are like, oh that’s just Prager.

Leo Laporte That’s just Prager. Exactly.

David Prager But I think… Sarah’s over there…

Bwana McCall Prager dreams in Web 2.0, that’s the issue.

Leo Laporte I love it that he had instinct! Bwana, would you have done that, would you have turned on a camera?

Bwana McCall I think I would have, I would have realized I’d just hit somebody and they were on the floor, I need to call the ambulance.

John C. Dvorak [24:06] I would have told the guy to get out. Hey, can I make a long story longer and ask Prager, what was the resolution? Did you ever find out who this guy was, you said you didn’t know if he was a homeless or a bum or a guy who stepped in the wrong house.

Leo Laporte The video showed, I guess he got into your bed, and the video shows you dragging him out of the bed and talking to him.

David Prager Yes, so I yanked him out of the bathroom. He was on his feet and as I yanked him out of the bathroom the bed was nearby and fell over on the bed and then I probably said a couple of dumb things, I said dude. I was, I think I was using the word dude…

Leo Laporte There was a lot of dude, there was a lot of dude.

David Prager I used the ‘f’ word a couple of times too many, but he fell over on the bed and I don’t know, I said a few things and I was kind of dumbfounded that I have got, now I have got this guy lying on my bed and for some reason all you can see is his boxer shorts and, it was...

Leo Laporte Yeah, he took his pants off! So, you never called the cops, you just got him out of there and he didn’t speak English. You tried to talk to him and he wasn’t speaking English.

David Prager Yeah, and I think may be he did speak English but he was so messed up that he wasn’t able to...

Leo Laporte He was on OxyContin or something, I mean he was really out of it.

David Prager And what was funny was, I mean he came back to try to get in and...

Leo Laporte ‘I left my pants in your house!’

David Prager And I didn’t feel threatened, I almost thought it was, I knew I had the Ustream going and so I looked at the camera and I said this guy is trying to get back in, this is ridiculous and I could, I mean I could tell either he was a fantastic actor but if he was and he had ulterior motives, he certainly would have accomplished them, but he didn’t try, so...

John C. Dvorak I think you were punked by Kevin Rose.

David Prager So, yeah, I was pretty blown away by the response, but again it does seem like the novelty and I never really considered myself quite the child of the Web 2.0 movement, but I guess, I guess I did what people in our positions might sometimes do, I don’t know.

Leo Laporte More than you thought.

John C. Dvorak Maybe he’s one of the Rev3 layoffs.

Leo Laporte I’m after you!

David Prager There is people commenting that said that I was the Darwin Award, and there is also people commenting saying, some people say that I can’t believe you are so nice and at the same time some people were saying have you no compassion for human beings, you kicked him out and he might have been dying and you didn’t call an ambulance. So, some people wanted me to beat him up and send him to the hospital, other people said I had no compassion for human beings because I didn’t do anything to help him, and then other people are like, oh you are so nice. So, that’s...

John C. Dvorak You’re going to end up sued by the guy for invasion of privacy, his privacy, you watch. This guy is going to get you in court and he is going to take you for everything you’re worth.

Leo Laporte That was my reaction, it’s funny, John, you and I, I must have been hanging out with you too much, because my reaction was that if anything happened to this guy after you threw him out, he could sue you. You know, if he walked into the street and got hit by a car, your biggest risk was not from this guy, clearly, it was from his lawyers.

David Prager Maybe, well to this day I have no idea and I was almost hoping…

Leo Laporte You will hear from a lawyer shortly, don’t worry about it.

David Prager I am surprised that no one has recognized this guy from the video, I don’t know.

Leo Laporte He seemed like, I mean the video is a little blurred, but he seemed like a good looking, well dressed guy. He was a partier, he was a Potrero Hill partier who…

David Prager I was telling Andrew Bancroft who hosts one of our shows that he really looks a lot like Andrew Bancroft, but it’s not him.

Leo Laporte Oh, interesting. Well anyway congratulations on surviving.

David Prager Thanks.

Leo Laporte The case of the mysterious intruder.

Alex Lindsay I had a mysterious intruder.

Leo Laporte You did?

Alex Lindsay Yeah in my backyard.

Leo Laporte Really?

Alex Lindsay Yeah.

Leo Laporte Yeah but you live on a big...

Alex Lindsay Yeah, it turned out to be a racoon. But I walked out, I think, mine was like a, my wife said there was something in the backyard, I have to go get it, if I don’t come back, if I don’t Twitter in 10 minutes call the police.

Leo Laporte There is clearly a Twitter issue going on here, people....

Peter Rojas Sure it wasn’t seismic? It could have been that seismic…

Alex Lindsay Yes, no I went out at night, and I walked out with a flashlight and knife thinking this is the beginning of some horror film where you are going why is he doing this, and then it turned out be a racoon who thought that my backyard was his.

Leo Laporte Don’t go into the yard… There is someone in the house...

Alex Lindsay Yeah, exactly.

Leo Laporte Get out now.

David Prager So, Leo, I got to ask you. I listen to this show, a good amount of time but not every week, and how much of the show is talking about Twitter now, what percent?

John C. Dvorak Oh, we have got to stop, stop.

Leo Laporte Stop, I want to stop. We all want to stop, we can't. That’s the problem. Twitter is like that.

Alex Lindsay Well you keep on trying to use other services but they’re just not the same.

Leo Laporte There is nothing else. The chat room says 99.9%, 27%, $50. So, I – I don't know what the $50 is.

Bwana McCall I think in general – I think in general everybody is just tired of hearing about it and when they do hear about it skews the conversation. We can be talking about it for 10% of the show and it sounds like 80% because it's everywhere – it’s on Martha Stewart for goodness sake. It is on every...

Peter Rojas It’s like five years ago when everyone got sick of us talking about blogging. It's exactly the same thing.

Leo Laporte I would say yeah, I mean, Peter, you were there for the emergence of the blogs, I mean Engadget was, I would say arguably still the winner of that.

Peter Rojas I’d like to think so.

Leo Laporte Yeah, is this – so it does remind you of that. It reminds me a little bit of that.

Peter Rojas [29:10] It reminds me. It's exactly the same, everyone, five years ago everyone was, you know, complaining about blogs and people need to shut up talking about blogs, and people writing columns about how they are sick of reading about blogs et cetera, et cetera. And Twitter is like kind of the same thing. It’s – it’s a publishing platform that everyone's really excited about and everyone's getting sick of because we are all over saturated with it.

Leo Laporte I think the thing about Twitter is it's kind of counterintuitive, at first sight it seems much less than it is. And then you get hooked and it seems like much more than it is.

John C. Dvorak And I want to make an announcement to all the listeners out there that I tried.

Leo Laporte You tried what?

John C. Dvorak To get the conversation off of Twitter.

Leo Laporte All right. Ed Bott, let's get the conversation onto Ed Bott. John what do you think…

John C. Dvorak Oh Ed Bott.

Leo Laporte Go ahead.

David Prager One reason we use it so much is if you’re like Leo, or like John, or like me and you have a lot of people following you on Twitter you want to talk about – you want to be able to use it as a broadcast mechanism. And because of the fact – because of that, that you continue using and talking about it.

Leo Laporte You know I realized this week I had kind of a comeuppance. I mentioned -- I just tweeted, a little tweet, “Oh! I am about to hit 100,000”, it seems prize worthy and I get all this heat on FriendFeed, people saying, “Well shut up, who cares how many people”, and I realized talking about your followers is like talking about how much money you make, it's just gauche. It's like don't, don’t but Twitter encourages you, you know, they put it front and center.

John C. Dvorak You’re back on track.

Leo Laporte Being gauche?

John C. Dvorak No, we’re talking about Twitter for god’s sake.

Leo Laporte So, what did you do? Now, Ed Bott was a friend of ours. We had Ed Bott on the radio show a lot, he's a nice guy.

John C. Dvorak Oh Ed Bott like, I don't know what they pay him at Microsoft. But he's a hit man apparently and I was looking – he did our story, he says, I'll tell you 'coz it’s about me. Dvorak gets Windows 7 horribly wrong. I wrote a little column in MarketWatch saying that if this thing isn't a big success, Microsoft’s got some issues in the future and investors should be aware of that. That's basically the theme of the column.

Leo Laporte Which by the way, I agree with.

John C. Dvorak Of course and but anyway I mentioned a couple of things I said I don't think this is the finished code. I think that everybody's all jacked up about some – something that's pretty streamlined and it's going to prob -- the likelihood of it being as fast and nifty as it – when it gets released and especially after a few patch Tuesdays is probably pretty low, since Microsoft has a bad reputation. He basically goes crazy and says that isn't – in fact I'll say – he goes into some quoting me, he says – he says that is to put it as kindly as possible pure crap

Leo Laporte Pure crap.

John C. Dvorak The security features you see in Beta release 7 are those you'll see in the final product. The idea that there's a pile of code being held back is ridiculous. Which begs the question why don’t you release the product now.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

John C. Dvorak Here's what really got me, at the end he has an update. If you want to go back to his blog, you'll see it. It says, I went back and read it the column again. Another page view by the way. I was especially struck by how crude and juvenile the writing is. It's similar to what I see in comment threads from anti-Microsoft zealots. I wonder if JCD is having this column ghost written, well so I decided to do a little research and on Ed’s charming writing and by the way he did the exact same thing against a Chris Pirillo commentary when Vista came out and Ed was doing the same pro-Microsoft crap and the reason of course is Ed’s real income comes from writing books about Vista and he obviously has books ready to come out on Windows 7 and he thinks that anyone who says anything negative will probably hurts sales by two or three books. And he's just very upset about it and I also think he gets his – he gets a memo from Microsoft saying to go hey look at this, you should do something. And he does and then he doesn't do enough so they send him another note. So, he does an update. It's basically, he's just a Microsoft's stooge. So there end of story. How?

Leo Laporte I noticed that the same -- we do a Windows show with Paul Thurrott who I love and I think is great and I think his integrity is 100% or I wouldn’t be doing a show with him. But I do notice that he and Ed’s are similar in one respect. They comment – they blow hot and cold on Microsoft and sometimes it's like you're attacking mom and apple-pie if you say anything about Microsoft, it's negative.

Alex Lindsay We know Mac users would never be that way.

Leo Laporte Well, I guess we're the same way aren't we.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, it's..

Alex Lindsay It's just that...

John C. Dvorak No, Mac users are the same way and both camps by the way accuse me of being oh you are Microsoft, oh you're anti-Microsoft, I mean, I don’t get it.

Leo Laporte I never saw more hate than when John C. Dvorak

Peter Rojas John, I get exactly the same thing.

John C. Dvorak Do you?

Peter Rojas Yeah, Ryan and I get it constantly whenever we say anything about Apple, all the Microsoft pe --, it's like people go nuts. It's everything, you know what it is, bias is in the eye of the beholder. It’s always that way. And I think whenever people try to accuse someone of being biased or having a secret agenda or something like that, you really have to kind of like look at it from where your own preferences lie. I see this all the time, I mean someone got on my case last week on gdgt Weekly, I suggested that if someone balks at the price of the new iPod shuffle, they might want to look at something like some of the devices from SanDisk and some guy just slamm -- went ballistic on me for it.

John C. Dvorak That SanDisk product is quite nice by the way.

Peter Rojas Yeah exactly, I mean, they're good alternatives, they are very affordable and you don't have to give up a screen or anything like that. Like you do with the Shuffle. This guy was just like – it was like I had blasphemed.

Leo Laporte How dare you? Don’t you know the iPods are best thing in the world? \ John C. Dvorak Well, the thing is and it follows, that Ed Bott column, his followers, who are a bunch of Microsoft stooges too. The typical – the anti-Dvorak stuff which is interesting, “I really think the guy needs to change careers,” this guy Robert says and another guy says, “Well I believe it is time for Mr. Dvorak to be put out to pasture.” Moo. And then another one of course and then Mark Justice Hinton says, “I was surprised to learn Dvorak still has a column”, which is to like always “ho, ho, ho, these guys are so funny.” So…

Leo Laporte You know what well who said....

John C. Dvorak It never ends but the fact of the matter is, Microsoft, I am not buying into all the propaganda that Windows 7 is the greatest thing since sliced bread. They still haven’t fixed a lot of things that were broken in Vista that they promised years ago and they have never implemented.

Leo Laporte Who was it said that the lower the stakes, the higher the battle. I mean there’s really, let's face it, there's not a whole lot of difference between, I mean they are all computers, the DNA is 99% the same.

John C. Dvorak And another thing I am........

Leo Laporte We're almost 99% same as chimps.

John C. Dvorak As monkeys. I'm – by the way, I'm targeting Ubuntu now as something to really seriously look at.

Leo Laporte Good. I love Ubuntu.

Peter Rojas Dude, I love Ubuntu, I use it all the time. It's…

Leo Laporte But anybody – does anybody here on this very esteemed established panel use it full-time as their desktop OS?

John C. Dvorak I could do it.

Leo Laporte You could? You could.

Peter Rojas I use it actually. I…

Alex Lindsay You could, you are or --- here’s what I want – Dvorak I think you should use it for a month straight, nothing else.

Leo Laporte The Lindsay Challenge.

John C. Dvorak I could do it. It’s not a problem except for one thing I had, there's one missing piece of the puzzle which has been...

Alex Lindsay Here's the rub.

John C. Dvorak Adobe.

Leo Laporte Oh, you use Photoshop a lot?

John C. Dvorak I use Photoshop at lot.

Leo Laporte You can learn the GIMP.

Alex Lindsay You can use GIMP, yeah. It is....

John C. Dvorak GIMP does not do the trick -- job that Photoshop does.

Alex Lindsay You could use the online – can you use the online version?

Leo Laporte, you could... yeah, or Aviary. Peter, you use it full-time?

Peter Rojas I’m actually one of the few people who uses Windows, Ubuntu and Mac on a regular basis. I live in the browser, so at this point it’s just what’s convenient.

Leo Laporte It doesn’t really matter now, does it, yeah.

Peter Rojas Yeah, exactly. I mean I – the thing about it is that the first thing you do – the first I did when I installed Windows 7, I just installed Firefox. And you know 99 – like if we're going to talk about 99%, I mean, 99% of the stuff I do is in the browser now.

Leo Laporte You know Twitter works the same on all of them.

John C. Dvorak Enough.

David Prager So, I switched over from being a PC user to using a Mac about three years ago. And Windows 7 is the reason that I went and bought a PC about two weeks ago. Because I wanted to go back....

Leo Laporte And?

David Prager And start using it again, and I think it's great; I like it quite a bit. Now, again I'm not using it for quite the extensive reasons a lot of the people do. But, I think it's a pretty solid operating system and I think that also that, it doesn't have the bugs and it doesn't have a lot of the issues that...

Leo Laporte Yeah, but what about what John was saying? Do you think it's going to get buggy as soon as they put everything in that they've left out? Or have they…

David Prager I don't know, but there's so many – what I realize when switching back to a PC, and I still use a Mac, is that there are so many more applications available to PC users that I forgot about.

Leo Laporte Games.

David Prager Because I was only using the Mac stuff. Well now, granted like in the past three years the number of Mac applications have skyrocketed but the PC...

Leo Laporte You just want to play Quake Live, I know why.

David Prager Yeah, but in becoming a Mac user I forgot about the benefits of using, quite frankly the benefits of using a platform that 90% of computer users use.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I’m with you on that. I actually like Windows 7 a lot. I think Mac…

Alex Lindsay That's what VMware is for as far as I am concerned.

Leo Laporte Yeah. I think Mac users are the most likely to be happy with Windows 7, it feels clean and straight, simple, it almost – I hate to say it, Macish. And I’m not sure I agree with you John, I mean......

John C. Dvorak Wait, wait, wait, wait. Before you do not agree with me, let's back up a few, like a year or so when Vista first came out and you said the exact same thing about Vista and Kevin Rose was on the show going on and on about how great Vista is.....

Leo Laporte Kevin maybe, but not me.

John C. Dvorak Well, everybody was going on about it, saying just like a Mac, it's got Mac characteristics and you know they never used it of course, they played with it and you're…

Leo Laporte I think Vista on the surface was appealing and then as soon as you did really start to use it, it was like, “Oh God”.

John C. Dvorak Well this is the same...

Leo Laporte No, no, I have Windows 7 on all my systems now. I’ve been using Windows 7 since…

John C. Dvorak All right, wait until they start updating, wait until you get a few of these patches and then we'll – give me six months and we'll see what happens.

Leo Laporte All right. I think that's reasonable. And I want you to...

John C. Dvorak Wait, I'm sorry, six months after it actually is released.

Leo Laporte Yeah, yeah. So a year from now.

David Prager I don’t know but the thing is, I mean, if you go back to Vista, if you tried out the Vista Beta, I mean the Vista Beta wasn't as good as the Windows 7 Beta is.

Leo Laporte No, not nearly.

David Prager So, I mean…

John C. Dvorak No, this is the point I made in the column by the way, said Microsoft's changed its style.

Leo Laporte They put less in to make you happy.

Alex Lindsay They put less in, yeah.

John C. Dvorak To make you happy. It’s streamlined, it's like, it feels great.

Bwana McCall Well I've using – I mean, I went a good five years using Linux exclusively from like '99 to like...

Leo Laporte You did?

Bwana McCall …..until like 2000. Yeah, I was using Linux exclusively until I switched to a Mac because I had been customizing Linux for so long, doing so much to try to get it to where I wanted it. Then when I switched to a Mac, I was like okay that's how UNIX is supposed to be, supposed to be pretty with all the underlining power.

Leo Laporte That’s kind of why I use a Mac. Yeah.

Bwana McCall But going back to the Windows where every time I go – I got Windows 7 on my on my Netbook – I got a HP Mini 1000. Every time I go back and I try to do something on Windows, I find what Prager said, I think it was Prager that said that, is that there's a lot of software out there to do just about everything and I find that that's a problem for me because in the Mac world everything is so specialized I can find one or two good tools that does it very well, when in Windows I can find forty or fifty tools but may be only three that do it very well.

Alex Lindsay And they are all ugly.

David Prager Yeah, for Mac users, true. Every time I open up an application I'm like why can't they just look at the interface just for a couple of minutes, just a couple of minutes?

Bwana McCall But I do recognize that they're all tools, I got Windows, I got Linux and virtual machines now, I used to have a Linux, a Linux laptop just to keep the latest.

Leo Laporte VMs are great. VMs mean you could do anything you want really.

Bwana McCall If anybody wants to try Linux, I mean, I’d say go for it because you'll find that some of the compromises don't apply to everybody, I mean, some of the things that don't work may not bother you. I mean, everything's in the browser now like everybody’s been saying so I don't think it's going to be that big of an issue for....

Alex Lindsay And we're actually considering developing some turnkey systems where Linux is really the only solution for us. We're going to be – we develop a lot of our software is actually written in objective c's – so it’s written straight to OS X.

Leo Laporte Who’s we? The Pixel Corps?

Alex Lindsay DV Garage, my other company. So – and so we make keen software and lot of other things but one of the things we’ve been playing with is some turnkey boxes that do a lot of the stuff that we do. And our solution is as we look at it there's not a lot of ways to avoid just writing it in Linux because we always need to have complete control over the box, we’ve got to build it from scratch with a lot of extras and that is one of the big advantages of either windows or Linux, is being able to customize the hardware a lot more than what you're going to be able to do on OS X. That’s it, I'm not, my laptop, I'm quite happy.

Leo Laporte Well, I think they are all about the same, and there is minor differences...

John C. Dvorak There is one, there is one major difference, we have to always taken into consideration.

Leo Laporte Cost.

John C. Dvorak Exactly.

Leo Laporte Yes. Oh, yes, Windows is outrageously expensive, but nobody buys Windows, they just buy a new machine, and it comes with Windows, same for the Mac.

Alex Lindsay Well, you buy…

Leo Laporte Yes.

Alex Lindsay But you can go to a lot of computer stores and just buy an OEM version of....

Leo Laporte But I am just saying, people don't really do it, Mac users do because that want to run VM. But, but most Windows users get it when they buy a computer, they never buy another edition, until they buy the next computer, I mean that’s…

John C. Dvorak Well, yes, but I am talking, it’s not the end users necessarily that they have to eat it, it’s these big corporations that have 10,000 seats.

Leo Laporte Well, that’s true.

John C. Dvorak And they have to buy...

Leo Laporte Which is why, they are still using Windows XP.

John C. Dvorak Yes. But at some point they get…

Leo Laporte Yes, they have to. That's really the game, Microsoft has to come up with a way to force you to upgrade.

Alex Lindsay But then, the big thing is that always, every time someone's forced to upgrade, then they get into –there are smaller companies, maybe not the large ones that have huge infrastructure, but especially, as a bunch of these, a lot of these companies are moving, more and more towards software as a service. And then a lot of their infrastructure is going online, they can make a decision of, we can go to, for instance, OS X, we're going to move over, and it's, or Linux, but especially, we can change it because a lot of our executives like iPhones, and then the iPhone into laptops.

Leo Laporte Watch this watch this, it’s Cloud Computing, right John?

John C. Dvorak Sounds like it.

Leo Laporte Well, now, oh I was waiting for, like the furor, the storm.

Alex Lindsay Well, now, I am speaking, I am not speaking as someone who is not a big fan of Cloud Computing.

John C. Dvorak I am pro- Cloud Computing, now.

Leo Laporte You are?

John C. Dvorak No.

Alex Lindsay Oh, wow.

Leo Laporte You know, my world is rocked.

Alex Lindsay No, I will say, I am not a big fan of it, personally. Mostly because …

John C. Dvorak I think that it has its place, let’s say that’s the compromise I have made.

Leo Laporte I want to, let me, I want to talk about something that is totally exciting to me, that I think is going to change everything, and it has to do with Cloud Computing, it has to do with Google.

Alex Lindsay Oh, Yes.

Leo Laporte Voice.

Alex Lindsay Yes. Voice.

Leo Laporte Let me talk about Voice in a second, I am so excited about this. I also want to ask you, David Prager, why Kevin Rose hates me? Because…

David Prager Why, why does he hate you? What are the symptoms?

Leo Laporte Well, I'll tell you the symptoms. I know he hates me now. He's got to…

David Prager Wait, wait, wait, I am still confused…

Leo Laporte I will tell you in a second. He has got to a new website, and he, and I could tell, I am not getting the love from Mr. Rose.

David Prager Do they have to do with application development?

Leo Laporte No. We'll talk about it in a second, but first I want to mention – see I am getting so good at these teases. I am really getting good at these.

David Prager Well, you are teasing me here too, I have no idea.

Leo Laporte So I want to talk about GoToMeeting from the folks at Citrix. GoToMeeting is an amazing program that means you can travel less, you can meet more conveniently. We use GoToMeeting now for one of our shows, Ray Maxwell was up in Vancouver, and he wants to show a screen shots when he does his Maxwell's House Show, GoToMeeting, it's amazing he just sends an email out to me, I click the link, and suddenly I'm seeing his computer on my desktop, he can show us the drawings, the – if you're in sales, imagine this, instead of having to travel across the country, sitting in the middle seat, I know you don't do that, but for those of us who have to go through security, take off our shoes, all that, this is –you don't have to do that anymore, you just say, hey, get them on the phone, It’s has got free Voice Conferencing built in, both VoIP and teleconference. Get them on the phone, say go to, here's the meeting ID. They enter it in, suddenly they are seeing your computer, they see the PowerPoint, the presentation. You'll increase your productivity, you will close more sales, you'll do more, you’ll travel less. I just love it. Set it up in a couple of minutes, in fact if you do it right now, you’ll have it set up before the show is over,;; you’ll try it free for 30 days, by the way. A month of meetings unlimited, online meetings, absolutely free, and if you decide to sign up, you'll find this is the most affordable solution out there, easy to install, easy to configure, easy to use, easy to pay for, I use it, and encourage you to too.

Alex Lindsay There is software as a service.

Leo Laporte That’s, you know that’s Cloud Computing, isn’t it? Come to think of it.

Alex Lindsay What I was going to say is, I haven't been a big fan of it, but as I see more and more of what some of these guys are doing, I start going, Oh, I mean, when you look at whether, between what they're doing, what Google's doing, what Salesforce is doing, you start going, well, maybe I, maybe I should do more of this.

Leo Laporte [46:25] I think Google just tipped, did the tipping point, I think this Google Voice, I'm going to go way out on a limb here, John I am ready for you, shoot me down, Peter you can shoot me down, but to me – I had a GrandCentral Account, it was just collecting dust, I wasn't using it.

Alex Lindsay Mine too.

Leo Laporte Converted it to Google Voice.

Alex Lindsay Mine too.

Leo Laporte Unbelievable.

Alex Lindsay They haven’t given me my conversion code.

David Prager Me neither.

John C. Dvorak You saying unbelievable is not selling me on anything.

Leo Laporte Okay, let me tell you what you get. So, first of all, you now, you have one phone number that you're going to use forever. This is your single phone, you can, an unlimited number of other phones forwarded to. If, it uses your Google contacts, which they’ve kind of rolled out, secret, kind of, covertly in Gmail a little while ago. I have groups, so I have a family group, I have a TWiTs group, I have a work group, I have unknown people. You can have different messages for each group, you can have different responses for each group, so when my family calls, they get a custom answering machine message, they can ring custom phones, they can get screened or not screened, if somebody I don't know, it's not in my contact list calls, they get screened, they have to say their name. I can listen to them leave a message, if I want. Then, this is the best part, or one of the best parts, the messages are transcribed, machine transcription, it’s not perfect. And SMSed to me or emailed to me. So I have it set up, so that when you call me, if I don't know you, I don't even hear the ring. It SMSs me your message I can call you back from the SMS message with one click on my cell phone. Now, I can also call my Google phone number, get free calls anywhere in the U.S., this is the thing that I think is changing, is going to change telephony, free calls anywhere in the U.S. through Google. Undercutting the price on Skype on international calls, it’s actually cheaper than Skype. SMS is free, text messaging is free.

Alex Lindsay How does this connect to Android, is what I want to know.

Leo Laporte Well, that's going to be this, the next, the other shoe. And, maybe Peter will have a thought on this, but, right now, works with any phone, the way anything else would, but, if they put an Android Application or an iPhone Application now with this thing, see, I don't think they will, because I think AT&T would quash it, this is …

Peter Rojas Yes, I wouldn’t hold your breath, for a bunch of reasons.

Leo Laporte This is, do you think Peter, this is a threat to the phone companies?

Peter Rojas It would be if Google would follow-through on anything, these days.

Leo Laporte You might be right.

Peter Rojas I think that they have attention deficit disorder, right now, when it comes to stuff, and look at Android the fact that they really have been very slow on integrating with Android, this is sort of, it came out a little prematurely, I think that it was a little underdeveloped, when it…

Leo Laporte I still, and also the G1, it’s such a crappy piece of hardware, that it doesn't do Android justice, it’s just too slow. I think.

Peter Rojas Yes, I mean, I use one, and there's, it's definitely very sluggish, but Android, just as an operating system, it needs a lot of polish, and I think that, you can sort of see that Google, they, it’s hard for them to keep their focus on so many different things at once, and so the idea, that they're going to integrate Google Voice, I am not saying, they won’t do it, but I think that it’s going to happen a lot more slowly than any of us would like.

Leo Laporte That was….

David Prager So, I have a question about what Google does. Why is Gmail still in Beta yet the Chrome browser came out of Beta within two months, why is Chrome not in Beta still. Because they don't even have and freaking OS X version. I don’t get it.

Leo Laporte Well the better question is, what does it mean that they are in Beta? It's meaningless. Does it have any meaning?

David Prager No, it’s an excuse…

Alex Lindsay It’s a, hey leave us alone, leave us alone.

David Prager But yes, an excuse like, if this thing screws up, it’s not our fault, it’s in Beta.

Leo Laporte Well, I mean, I know, I just think that…

David Prager Isn’t that what, isn’t that what means?

Leo Laporte No, I don’t think it means anything. Chrome can screw up.

David Prager Well, something in Beta means that, like, hey we're all done just check it out.

Leo Laporte Well, that’s what it used to mean, I think the new meaning is empty, meaningless.

Alex Lindsay Thanks to Google.

Leo Laporte Thanks to Google, yes.

David Prager I also think that no one… Everyone uses the term Beta because of Google, I mean, like it existed, but people always know it's Google who puts things out in Beta. And so everyone calls their applications in Beta, and even their like products, like some of their really, I wouldn’t be surprised if Ford made a car, and called it Beta, because they didn’t know if the gas economy worked well or not.

Alex Lindsay Well, in some ways though, I think it’d be, as someone who develops software, calling something Beta for us works out really well because, we get some less pressure and we get a much higher sample rate. So we can handle a bunch of stuff, and people will – now ours moves…

Leo Laporte What does it mean with that…?

Alex Lindsay We move out of Beta in a month or two.

Leo Laporte Yes, but this is a web service for one thing, it's not software, it's not…

Alex Lindsay No, but it's still, it's still, there's a bunch of things to roll, there's a bunch of things to, no I think that that the Gmail thing is little silly.

Leo Laporte But at this point, it’s not Beta, come on.

Alex Lindsay Exactly, but I think that there is something that is, has been very useful for us, of being able to release something that we call Beta, now we could probably call it gamma, which is like, we’ve already Beta tested, because usually when we’ve done it…

Leo Laporte Gamma. Epsilon…

Alex Lindsay When we’ve done it, it’s already been tested by 50 people. But this is TWiT zeta, I just want you to know, yes.

Leo Laporte Exactly. Well, I don’t know. I think, it's, that they’ve made the term, they have effectively made the term meaningless by being in Beta for so long with Gmail.

John C. Dvorak And in England, it's called ‘Beta’.

Leo Laporte ‘Beta’, do they say ‘Beta’?

John C. Dvorak Yes, they say ‘Beta’.

Alex Lindsay Oh, yes.

Leo Laporte ‘Beta’ That's weird. Don’t they know Greek?

John C. Dvorak Don't we know Greek, that's what they say.

Leo Laporte I say, don't you know Greek? So what do you think about this – has anybody else played with Google Voice, or is it just me?

Alex Lindsay I'm not, they haven’t upgraded me yet. When I got into GrandCentral, I had big view, I had a big…

Leo Laporte Yes, GrandCentral was a disappointment.

Alex Lindsay Well, I just couldn’t quite get my head around it completely, is it easier to get with Google Voice, is it easier to get in to it?

Leo Laporte Oh, yes.

Alex Lindsay Because I've been looking at wanting to do this with...

Leo Laporte You’ll totally get it.

Alex Lindsay I have been wanting to do this with our office number.

Leo Laporte They completely re-design it, I should show you, but I will, after the show, because it’s got my phone number all over it, but I should show you, although, I have to say, the machine transcription is, it’s machine transcription, it leaves a little bit to be desired, I tested, I left myself a message, in which I said, hi, this is Leo, and I'd like to know when you're coming home for dinner, and it translated to, hi, ass ideally, when are you – and then that well this is fine, I knew obviously, you look at that, that's a mistake, but then it says, when are you coming out for dinner, instead of coming home for dinner, that makes a big difference.

Alex Lindsay I think I am going to leave a message that says, hi, this is going to be transcripted by a machine, so speak slowly, and clearly.

Leo Laporte I spoke pretty clearly, I don't even think it, it said, hi, ass ideally oh, instead of, hi, it’s Leo.

Peter Rojas Oh.

Leo Laporte So.

Peter Rojas It looks better when you show it on the screen. Wow, that’s a big difference.

Leo Laporte When you see how bad that is, and then…

Peter Rojas Oh, wow.

Leo Laporte And then, what's interesting is, you can see there's different, like some of the words are dark, and some are light, there's obviously some information here.

Alex Lindsay The darker ones are the ones that it’s sure of, and the lighter ones are the ones that it's less sure of.

Leo Laporte I hope so.

John C. Dvorak It’s sure of hi, ass?

Leo Laporte It’s unsure of.

Alex Lindsay No, no, no, that’s still grey.

Leo Laporte And then I wonder if you’re coming, and then out for, so it actually looks like they have three shades of grey, dark if they know for sure, light grey if they are not sure, and then very light grey if they’re pretty sure they got it wrong.

John C. Dvorak Why don’t we just, why don’t we just conclude, it sucks.

Leo Laporte Well.

Peter Rojas Can you teach it?

Leo Laporte No.

Peter Rojas Can you teach it the terms?

Leo Laporte I don’t know, I don’t know.

Peter Rojas Oh, okay.

John C. Dvorak It sucks; it just out and out sucks.

Leo Laporte It’s good enough, no, no, look here, it’s good enough, because what happens, I get a text message, it says who it's from, it says, roughly what they said, I know what the message is about. I can play it back on the web interface, the other thing they did is, GrandCentral's web interface was opaque, this is a Google, believe it or not, I don’t think Google is the best UI company, but they did a pretty good job of making this….

Alex Lindsay Oh, and I definitely think, as a, as some kind of app, we’re going to be able to our check messages, and so on and so forth, through some kind of iPhone app, so it's going to be, this nice little interface...

Leo Laporte That will be interesting, it’s visual voice mail, but better, I think. So, I think if I am a phone company, right now, and I’ve heard from some people that the phone companies are a little nervous about that. What do you think, Peter, I mean this is your, this is really your area.

Peter Rojas Well I think that, this is the one thing that the carriers are always worried about, is being dis-intermediated, and having, people figure out ways to completely route around them.

Leo Laporte It’s all bits now, you can’t sell services. It’s all bits.

Peter Rojas Yes, but though, I think that there are still some issues with doing VoIP over a data connection, like over a wireless data connection, I mean, you're not going to, you’re going to have some latency issues that you're not going have when you’re using the voice channels. So, it's not quite there yet, but it's getting better, and you actually see some of the carriers overseas being a lot more open to this stuff than they are here in the U.S.

Alex Lindsay Because I think that the carriers overseas have resigned themselves to, they are, that you are paying for the pipe and that’s what, that’s what they're selling you. It is not as, overseas characters – carriers don't seem to be as connected to trying to get your minutes or even the content that you get over it, they just, you literally are simply, paying for a pipe to your phone.

Peter Rojas Yes, no, that’s the thing, and the carriers here, they really don’t want to become just dumb pipes, because they kind of realize that then they’ll all become modified and then it’s just a race to the bottom, in terms of pricing.

Leo Laporte Exactly.

Peter Rojas I think we're actually going to see that anyway, you see that T-Mobile are being a lot more aggressive with its all-in-one price. So, yes, I mean I think this is going to be a big deal. I will say, with respect to GoogleVoice, is that I have had Vantage for, since 2002. And I've had the ability to have one number, forwarded to like, five or six different lines, and have the, Voicemail Transcription, and stuff like that for a while, so a lot of those big features are something that’s been available from other service.

Leo Laporte For $30 a month, or $25 a month.

Peter Rojas Yes, well, I pay the 15 because I don’t, I try not to talk on the phone at all.

Leo Laporte Right. No I use something called GotVMail, that gives us boxes, all sorts of cool stuff, but I think, this is free.

Peter Rojas But I think bringing the price to zero is a big deal.

Leo Laporte Yes absolutely, plus low cost international calling, it’s interesting that you say that the U.S. carriers are more worried about this than the international carriers, because it’s my understanding that Google has no intentions of offering this anywhere but the U.S. So, they’ve said, no, U.S. only.

Peter Rojas But I think it must have to do with the pricing for doing all the….

Leo Laporte Maybe.

Peter Rojas The termination and the regular stuff

Leo Laporte I just think this is very exciting, I think Google is, this is, I agree with you, I mean, look what they did with Dodgeball. I mean they completely killed it, then the guys go out and say, well we’re going to, okay, thanks for the money Google, thanks for letting us sit on the beach for two years, now we're going to start Foursquare. They're going to run out of children's games, but then maybe not that quickly.

Alex Lindsay And the same with Jaiku.

David Prager That's what everyone is using here at South by Southwest, is everyone’s like using, installing Foursquare.

Leo Laporte Are they?

David Prager Oh, yes, it’s the new Twitter. And it’s also because I think Twitter, on Twitter – Twitter used to be great at a conference because you could talk about where you are with your friends. And now because they don't have enough features on Twitter yet you can't talk about things you're doing for a specific group of people who are in an area because you've got a bunch of followers that don't care that you are in Austin at South by Southwest. So then, therefore you can't use it anymore to tell you people where you are.

John C. Dvorak Back to Twitter.

Leo Laporte All right.

John C. Dvorak Why don’t we just change the name of the show.

Leo Laporte Have you seen the really cool Pepsi Twitter visualizer for South by Southwest.

Alex Lindsay Yes.

Leo Laporte I think that's pretty sweet.

Alex Lindsay I like the map the best…..

Leo Laporte Right now it says that – I guess it’s looking for the South by Southwest tags. At South by Southwest 991 people are traveling, 1,140 people are drinking, 6,372 people are attending, 2,500 people are eating, 476 people are connecting. Isn't it funny, I just love this. Oh, look then you get a graph. Why is Pepsi doing this?

John C. Dvorak Why is this interesting to anyone?

Leo Laporte I don't know.

John C. Dvorak Mainly you, Leo, or anybody that looks at this …

Leo Laporte It’s cool.

John C. Dvorak So we know there are 2200 people drinking, great.

Bwana McCall The colors man, it’s the colors.

Alex Lindsay Is it the colors? It’s the colors.

John C. Dvorak Wait a minute , there’s 2,304 people partying and 1,142 drinking. What a bunch of teetotalers partying. I don't – I’m getting these numbers as accurate.

Leo Laporte You know, of course this information is worthless. But it's nicely presented. I guess you're right.

Bwana McCall

Hey Leo, once you hover on the bottom and then you can get the menu. There's one called – I believe it's called, Where People Are. I think that's really useful because it shows a Google map. And …

Leo Laporte Party Watch probably right?

Bwana McCall I think it’s overheard. No, one of them is a map, you see there’s swarm over there.

Leo Laporte David, you're actually there.

Alex Lindsay Hey, David, how many people are pooping?

Leo Laporte Doesn’t say.

David Prager Okay I twittered out this, I got here I twittered out, I said I am so sick of people who’re twittering about SXSW. So that you know…

Leo Laporte You know it’s actually ruined Twitter. You can't use Twitter because everybody – it's chock a block with that and if you're not there it’s like who cares.

Alex Lindsay This one right here seems useful because I’ve seen a lot of Tweets of peoples asking where is everybody.

Leo Laporte This is the swarm feature and it shows you a map of Austin, Xs where people are tweeting and then – you know like at Stubbs Bar, at Driscoll Bar there's nine tweets and eight people. So you could find out where everybody's hanging.

John C. Dvorak Yes and go shoot them.

David Prager Leo you’ve got to come out here. It is a lot of fun and it's absolutely your community. There so many people …

Leo Laporte I know, it’s everybody I know or want to know. I would love to ….

John C. Dvorak [59:33] Hey wait a minute, hold on a second. I thought we were going to come back from the break with a teaser on why Kevin Rose hates Leo.

Leo Laporte All right, so ask Kevin, David, I saw some people behind you, is Kevin there with you? Okay.

David Prager No, he's not. We just finished, there’s some shameless plugging going on, on my screen here.

Leo Laporte @Sarah Lane S-A-R-A-H-L-A-N-E. Where would I find @SarahLane, what’s that on?

David Prager On a certain web app that we don't want to talk about anymore, right.

Leo Laporte So Kevin’s got – I have to say Kevin is very creative, one of the most creative people. He just, he must just, ideas must spill off of him. He's got a new site which I guess they launched for South by Southwest called We Follow. This is a kind of a response to that messed up system that Twitter is using for recommendations. You can tag, tech celebrity news and we figure out who to follow on here.

John C. Dvorak Have I been tricked, is this another Twitter story?

Alex Lindsay We’ve got you ask for it.

Leo Laporte Well, wait a minute. It's Kevin's site, okay. And I did the thing – you are supposed to press a button, on no I broke it.

John C. Dvorak Good.

David Prager It doesn’t work, we’re just trying to open to myself …..

Leo Laporte

Alex Lindsay Used to be there.

Leo Laporte Now 503 service unavailable anyway I’m not on the list anywhere and I did the thing where you go – to do all this…

John C. Dvorak This is what your gripe is.

Leo Laporte Because I don't think Kevin likes me …

David Prager I was going to say what this has to do with him disliking you.

Leo Laporte Because he won't let me be on the list.

David Prager I think I honestly, honestly, honestly think the reason that you're not on the list is because he is so ADD that he didn’t think about it.

Leo Laporte No, but I didn’t think …

David Prager You know him

Leo Laporte I know, I know. But then okay, so I understand I’m not on – I’m fine with not being on the seeded list. That’s okay, I understand that. That doesn't matter to me. But then I do the thing where you twitter because everything's about like publicizing the site. So you press a button and you do @We Follow and you do your three hash tags I did tech, I did news, I did radio, I did that last night at 24 hours ago, still on the list. Okay.

David Prager I think that you should have a conversation with him.

Leo Laporte I love Kevin.

Alex Lindsay He is, it’s a very public conversation.

Leo Laporte He is my girlfriend, he's my secret crush.

John C. Dvorak Now we’re getting into something.

Leo Laporte Anyway, enough, enough I'm not going to talk about that anymore. I just...

David Prager Oh but you just tease it a lot and we only talk about it for a few seconds….

Leo Laporte No that’s it that’s the story. What else is there to say? it's a good idea; it replaces that broken system Twitter’s using. Of course Ev is going to take Kevin off the suggested list now because Kevin is undermining Evan. It’s like high school. If Kevin is undermining Evan’s way of making money on Twitter by having an open public suggested follow thing instead of the paying for it to be on Twitter.

David Prager So, I want to leave it a little piece, a small piece of advice. You’re talking about how – there’s so many good ideas in his head and all this stuff spills forth. And one of the things that I think has led him to the success that he has and like there's so many people watching this show right now who are already good programmers and good web designers. But there's also so many more people than that that have fantastic ideas. And it's really cool to be able to take your ideas and find people who are able to build things on it. Digg was built because he had an idea and he found someone to help it a reality. it's the same thing, it's an idea that he had. And he – thankfully he has, obviously because of his previous success, so many more friends who are interested in being able to develop things with him and so all these ideas become realities because you find ways to make it a reality.

If you don’t have the technical chops to do it, you find somebody who can. So many ways to do it like that.

Leo Laporte Right on brother.

David Prager And I think it's a big deal to follow through on your ideas and make it happen. If you can't make it happen find someone who can help you make it happen and then otherwise you'll never know it was a good idea or not.

Leo Laporte You know my good idea is.

John C. Dvorak I have one.

Leo Laporte Okay what?

John C. Dvorak Let’s go to the news list.

Leo Laporte Here’s my good idea. And then we’ll go to the news list. Go ahead, David, you want to take that? So my idea is, we were doing Security Now and whenever anybody buys a copy of SpinRite from Steve Gibson. He has a little thing that goes yabba dabba dooo. And he forgot to turn off it one time during Security Now and he sold like twenty copies like. This thing keeps going off because people bought it just to make the thing go off. And a light bulb went off in my head. So what I am going to do is every time we get a donation for TWiT, we're going have different things happen in here. So, like for a five dollar donation we'll have a nerf pistol aimed at my forehead it’ll bounce off, for 10 dollars a little duck’ll come down from the ceiling or confetti. And I figure for a thousand dollars I’m going to have a little pin here that will burst the ball I’m sitting on. If you pay a thousand dollars, now this is an anti burst ball so it won’t go pop but it will slowly – I’ll slowly sink out of sight.

Alex Lindsay You’ll just be sinking down.

Leo Laporte What do you think? I think I could make millions.

Alex Lindsay Probably you could. But do you want to?

Leo Laporte Yes

Alex Lindsay Just because you can….

Leo Laporte And for five thousand a bucket of slime, what do you think? I think people would do that.

Alex Lindsay I think it depends on what’s in the slime.

Leo Laporte Because of the interactivity they – people, don’t people go crazy like to get Chris Pirillo to put a keyboard on his head.

Bwana McCall Those kids go rabid, I mean they literally start swarming like bees ..

Leo Laporte Yes, yes.

Bwana McCall When Chris does something that they say, Chris. He goes yeah and they go, oh my god, and all of a sudden he gets like a thousand viewers.

Leo Laporte You know why because television is so – there is such a glass wall between you and TV you can’t interact with Peter Jennings, well, he is dead, but even if he were alive, you couldn’t interact with him, right? You can’t....

Alex Lindsay But I think that is the killer app. I mean that’s the thing that we haven’t really started to take advantage of, what we are just starting to take advantage of within the internet is being to able have that interactivity, being able to break that wall down, is the thing that makes this a better medium...

Leo Laporte Much more interesting.

Alex Lindsay Much more interesting, yes.

Leo Laporte So, I am going to have – what do you think, Peter? I am going to get an Arduino kit and I am going to have my ball popped. I love Arduino.

David Prager It’s a little bit like a monkey in a box, you know.

Leo Laporte It is. It’s, you know, it’s a carnival. We’ll have a dung tank whatever. Jump, monkey, jump.

Alex Lindsay Dung tank.

David Prager You know we used to have here in the China Town in New York few blocks from where I live. You could play tic-tac-toe against a chicken.

Leo Laporte Yes.

David Prager It was very popular.

Leo Laporte I will peck out a piece of corn.

Alex Lindsay For how much?

Leo Laporte $10.

Alex Lindsay $10?.

Leo Laporte I’m cheap.

David Prager Chicken was cheaper.

Leo Laporte Really? But the chicken you can feed chickenfeed. Yes, work for chicken feed literally. So, this is actually a momentous week. On March 13, 1989, 20 years ago, a man named Tim Berners-Lee, now Sir Tim Berners-Lee wrote the paper proposing the World Wide Web. That is now 20 years old.

Alex Lindsay It looks pretty much the same.

Leo Laporte No, it does not. No. Sarah Lane has started. David, you should ask Sarah. She has a new tumbleblog. That is bad websites.

David Prager You have a new tumbleblog that is about bad websites? Leo Laporte Is that...

David Prager Veronica does.

Leo Laporte Veronica. Oh, I confused the two.

David Prager Well, she had the answer.

Leo Laporte She knew. Yes, Veronica, it’s so cool. It’s like bad ‘80s websites, and there really is a difference. In the ‘80s, I don’t think there were websites in the ‘80s. Bad ‘90s websites. Actually, they’re websites from two years ago most of them.

Bwana McCall You know whenever I saw a site with a marquee tag, I instantly put it in that category.

Leo Laporte Oh, yes. That’s that..

Alex Lindsay The PG Sound. Oh, my god.

Leo Laporte The PG Sound. We use all of those.

Alex Lindsay Well, sometimes, maybe you wonder if people just forgot to change it. You know they put it up years ago and they just never got back to it. David Prager Yes.

Alex Lindsay We change ours once every five years.

Leo Laporte I don’t know why she has started doing this. I guess it’s – she calls it the Vintage Web. It the, and I don’t know how she started – got into it but maybe she just noticed there were a lot really awful websites out there but it has really been kind of fun to watch these just god-awful sites. Yes, exactly with the marquee tag, This is today. These sites are active now. I guess so. You go to a plumbing supply link you don’t expect…

Alex Lindsay You play blink tag.

Leo Laporte Exactly.

David Prager Why don’t you just visit Craigslist every single day and it looks even more vintage.

Alex Lindsay Oh, my gosh.

Leo Laporte MySpace really.

John C. Dvorak But do we want more from Craigslist than what they are giving us?

Leo Laporte No, apparently not.

David Prager I think it’s perfect. The reason it’s still around is because they do a good service aside from whatever their legal troubles are.

Leo Laporte According to the Electronic Frontier Foundation, Apple has even more DRM in its new iPod, Shuffle. There is a chip, an authentication chip in there that prevents you from reverse-engineering the headphone interface.

Alex Lindsay Which is very important with this iPod given that there is no other buttons.

Peter Rojas Are you interested in this one? I have to admit – okay. I will say I own almost or at some point in time have owned before I lost them every iPod sold and this is the first one that Apple released.

Leo Laporte I want...

Peter Rojas And I looked at it and I went I am not going to get that one. It’s has got no buttons...

Leo Laporte This thing looks like a stick of dentin. They should put on the box not to be taken internally.

Peter Rojas You are not kidding. Although it would be pretty cool if it would stay there and you could just have a Bluetooth connection.

Bwana McCall I really think that the day that they were picking out the design, somebody came in drunk and then they said that one and they picked the one on the right instead of the one on the left. It is so many things that don’t seem...

John C. Dvorak The guy in Prager’s house.

Bwana McCall Seriously.

Leo Laporte I got. No really. Okay, come on. I think it’s pretty. It...

John C. Dvorak It’s pretty.

Leo Laporte It’s got silver-smooth metal. There are no buttons. So, you have to use these headphones and the headphone has the slider and the next in the left. What do you think, Peter? You review these things.

Peter Rojas Yes, I mean this is Apple’s game. They have been doing this with the iPod and iPhone docks for years where they try to make it really difficult for people to reverse-engineer accessories for them and they had the whole made for iPod system where you could basically pay a tithe to get your accessory to have sort of be officially supported for the iPod or iPhone. So, I mean this is something they have been doing for ever, and sort of my response is if it bothers you, just don’t buy it and don’t buy Apple products because you are basically agreeing to lock into their whole system in the first place.

Leo Laporte You know on a product like this which is relatively an expensive product, it’s a major thing for a company to say we are going to put a chip in it just to keep people from creating their own unauthorized headphones.

Alex Lindsay But people are going to – and what will happen is that people will pay the authorization and then they will make the headphones.

Leo Laporte So, paid for itself, I guess.

Alex Lindsay We’ll pay for it as consumers because they are going to tax it, the $5 they are paying to Apple is just going to go into the price of the product.

Peter Rojas Yes, and I have had companies already sent me press releases saying they are announcing headphones that are compatible with the new iPod.

Leo Laporte Klipsch has already announced headphones.

Peter Rojas Yes, yes.

Leo Laporte And you have to have them. I mean you can’t – otherwise you can’t play it.

Alex Lindsay Or you can use Apple’s crappy headphones.

Peter Rojas With the original iPhone, was it an accident that you had to have the head – like most headphones jacks won’t work? Was that just an accident, was it a design accident or it was that because...

Leo Laporte I think it was a design, it was a design accident because they took it away.

Peter Rojas Yes, because they didn’t make any sense because Apple is not selling headphones for a pile of money. So, why do they care? I don’t get it.

Leo Laporte The license fees.

Alex Lindsay They got to make a lot of money. What they realized is there is a huge market that sits around the iPhone. Why not? They are a hardware company, making a little bit more money on every piece of hardware makes a lot of business sense.

Peter Rojas That’s exactly their strategy.

Bwana McCall What’s interesting to me is that they are still selling the old model and that’s rare for Apple. When they come out with a new model of an iPod, they usually scrap the old model but the old model of the iPod Shuffle is still for sale. So, I think...

Alex Lindsay They have got something to do with their lack of confidence in the new product.

Bwana McCall Exactly.

John C. Dvorak Can you not hook this new product to a car with the car jacks, you know that you get in BMWs nowadays.

Leo Laporte No, no, you know what, that’s a good point.

John C. Dvorak Well that's sucks…

Leo Laporte Because you would have no control.

Alex Lindsay Well, now the question is whether that would be something in the future that allows you to do that. Well you know that something...

Leo Laporte Well you raised the point on MacBreak Weekly earlier this week that why the heck didn't they put a dongle in there that you could plug any headphones into, and the dongle has the controls.

Alex Lindsay And Shure does that, essentially.

Leo Laporte Yeah

Alex Lindsay You know Shure in the bottom half of the – of the headphones. They’ll make a – you can just buy the extra whatever the controls it all. And you can play any set of headphones on the top to make that work.

Leo Laporte Well if there was any question that Apple is much more interested in money than its customers, this is pretty good proof positive.

Bwana McCall Well, this is – it continues…

Peter Rojas But they can get away with that, right. I mean I think a lot of companies would do this if they can get away with it, but they can’t..

Alex Lindsay Well, I think that most customers aren't going to care and most manufacturers aren't going to care. I think that's the issue, I think they’re making – I mean we’ll grumble on this show and you know it makes good – good radio. But the issue is – is that I'll still buy whatever is out there and if it's five dollars more I’ll still buy it and the manufacturers will just pay the five dollars and not -- and call it a day. It's not going to – I just don't think that it's going to be one of those things that a lot of people are going to spend a lot of time thinking about.

Leo Laporte Apparently you are right.

Bwana McCall I could tell you now that people in my family, they look at it, they'll see all the button clicks that they'll have to memorize to go to the next track, to rewind, to fast forward – since it’s just one button, and they're not going to want to remember that. That they're not going to want to remember all these different…

Leo Laporte It’s too complicated.

Bwana McCall Combination is way too – they be simplified the design but they complicated the user experience. To me which is a huge mistake.

Alex Lindsay Although I will say that – I mean I don't like this iPod. I'm not going to get one. But I will say that I use that little clicker all the time on my headphones – on the – and I have – the Ultimate Ear ones. And I use that little clicker all the time.

Leo Laporte Just, but just to pause or to go…

Alex Lindsay And to rewind and to back forward.

Leo Laporte Really you do all the buttons?

Alex Lindsay Yeah, I use it. I I've – and it took me about a day to figure it out and then after that it's really nice not to have to pull my iPhone out to do it. And I just sit there and go click click click click click click and I’ll go back and find stuff and – and so it's something that I don't find that uncomfortable.

John C. Dvorak So, what's the next story?

Leo Laporte [74:12] You’re not going to like it. I’m just warning you. iPhone 3.0 software coming out Tuesday.

Alex Lindsay You asked what the next story was.

Leo Laporte John, do you have story you'd like to talk about, I'm open.

John C. Dvorak No, no you rock on there. I just – you just belabour some of these stories. I mean to me this Shuffle thing starting from the get go is too much publicity. Who cares is a little device…

Leo Laporte Well I think with the DRM chip on it…

John C. Dvorak It’s not as though General Electric...

Alex Lindsay Well, and the thing is that it’s going to be every iPod that comes out after this. This just the – this is the tip of the iceberg.

John C. Dvorak Stop talking iPods as well as Twitter.

Leo Laporte You want to talk about Jaiku?

David Prager We can talk about Twitter iPods.

John C. Dvorak Jaiku doesn’t work.

Leo Laporte Jaiku is interesting because it’s another Google product that they bought, killed. And then and now it's on the App Engine, and in the open source and you can use it for free on App Engine. They just brought it back this week.

Bwana McCall Yes. I think I saw a story I'm not sure where, but I think WordPress is going to use this Jaiku engine in the next revision of their, you remember they came out with this Twitter version, the Twitter version of WordPress, I think their next version is going to come out on the Jaiku engine; let me look that up, I’ll send you the link.

Leo Laporte That’s it. So what would it be? Would it be a microblog kind of a…?

Bwana McCall Yes, I think, because it’s using Jaiku engine, I am going to verify that.

John C. Dvorak So, they're going to have like an IRC chat channel on a blog; you’re going to have like your little channel going while people are looking at your blog. Is that what it is?

Bwana McCall Let’s get the links so I make sure…

Leo Laporte Accurate.

John C. Dvorak Okay, that sounds like an interesting idea.

Leo Laporte Well if you think about it, if you're WordPress, if you're in the blogging business Twitter kind of is a threat to you.

Alex Lindsay In some ways, but I think that I'm pretty excited about the idea with Jaiku because – we wanted to stuff like this for – within our membership within the Pixel Corps and you know obviously we looked at Yammer but it's too restrictive, we looked at, you know, Twitter just doesn’t get…

Leo Laporte We used Laconica on the I like it but it’s such a slavish clone of Twitter.

Alex Lindsay Right.

Leo Laporte And I'm not as happy about it.

Alex Lindsay What I like is the idea that we could go in kind of dig into it and make…

Leo Laporte You can, it’s open source.

Alex Lindsay Right, but I mean Jaiku, I don’t know it’s seems much closer.

Leo Laporte If you know Python and Django – if you know Python and Django, you go with Jaiku for sure.

Alex Lindsay Right.

Leo Laporte Moving on in just a bit we're going to talk about – I got to talk about the iPhone 3.0, for crying out loud it's a big story. I'll find something else to…

Alex Lindsay Did you get invited?

John C. Dvorak It’s okay. What, is it released? Do you have one?

Leo Laporte Tuesday, big announcement. Tuesday.

Alex Lindsay Tuesday

Leo Laporte And there's some speculation about what it'll be and I’m just going to ask…

Alex Lindsay Do you know what time?

Leo Laporte It's – you know what we're moving – MacBreak Weekly, just because they're doing it to us again. So we’re going to switch MacBreak Weekly, and Security Now and I’ll do MacBreak Weekly on Wednesday.

Alex Lindsay Okay.

Leo Laporte So, we’ll have something to talk about then. John let me think, you like talking about the Kindle.

John C. Dvorak I guess I don't like talking about anything.

Leo Laporte That's I'm thinking.

John C. Dvorak No, but I mean I think we need to get better news stories, I think, I don't know.

Leo Laporte I mean, just the news is what is the news.

John C. Dvorak Is it getting that pathetic that the news is so boring, I mean Kindle, by the way I get to play with the Kindle finally, it’s a pretty nice little product.

Leo Laporte What do you think?

John C. Dvorak But I still would like to see a little more contrast ratio.

Leo Laporte Yes, if they can get a paper white screen with black text, it'd be a killer product; it's not good for reading newspapers.

Alex Lindsay If they had the Economist on it, I think I could be sold

Leo Laporte It's better for linear books; page, page, page, page, page because the functions to move around are not very easy to use.

Alex Lindsay Yes.

Leo Laporte It's just not good.

Peter Rojas Yes, the interface is very sluggish.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Peter Rojas A few people have asked me about what it's like to do, like Google Reader and stuff like that on it. And it looks okay but it’s just the interface is so slow and the browsing is so sluggish that you wouldn't want to do it. It's really just about books that’s about it.

Leo Laporte There's a new Android app that lets you scan DVD barcodes and then automatically auto torrents them.

John C. Dvorak That’s funny. So, you go into a store, you go into like one of the last of the record stores and you barcode something and then bingo! It comes across?

Leo Laporte Yes.

Peter Rojas You know I just want to say…

John C. Dvorak Hey, that was ingenious.

Peter Rojas There’s a part of me that – the Virgin is right across, the Virgin Megastore is right across the street from us.

Leo Laporte And going out of business.

Peter Rojas Well, here’s the deal, the going out of business sale, here's what they did. They hire these companies now to manage their orderly demise. So the company comes in and takes over, they did this for CompUSA, they can do it for Circuit City, try to get the most money…

Leo Laporte That's a good business by the way; I would like to be in the orderly demise business.

Peter Rojas And so these companies come in and do this. But what they did it, okay, so they, of course everything's 40% off, but they took all the $10 racks and put it all back up to retail.

Leo Laporte What?

Peter Rojas So, they doubled the price and then they made it 40% off and even almost all the prices in there on the fire sale is still more expensive than Amazon.

Leo Laporte What do they think people are morons?

Peter Rojas And you know there just not that many people in there buying stuff.

Leo Laporte Yes, what a surprise.

Peter Rojas But it’s an amazing thing to see a big record store that’s trying to sell everything off at 40% and still empty, you realize how far…

Leo Laporte Yes, it’s over.

Peter Rojas How far it’s gone.

Leo Laporte It’s pretty much over.

Peter Rojas Yes. But the building’s really nice, we should…

Leo Laporte Well, who is going to go in there? Who goes in there? I mean is there any retail left?

Peter Rojas I was about to rent part of the third floor.

Leo Laporte It is a beautiful building. I used to love going there. I have never bought a record in there once but I loved going in there.

Peter Rojas Exactly.

Leo Laporte Loved going in there. I think they are closing them everywhere, right? I mean he is going, Richard Branson says the worst thing I ever did was not get out of retail sooner, big mistake being in retail. He seemed like a genius a few years ago. Then he got into two very hot businesses, retail and airplanes, airlines.

Peter Rojas I love Virgin.

Leo Laporte Yes, yes.

Peter Rojas I’m flying, I’m flying Virgin next week. I love it.

Leo Laporte Excellent, smart guy.

Let’s take a break, when we come back we’re going to talk about iPhone 3.0.

I have to say, we have to talk a little bit about it, before we do I want to mention, I’m going to do this really quickly,, I love Audible. Everybody knows about audible, I don’t have to belabor the point. It’s a great bookstore for online, for downloading audio books. 50,000 plus titles, the best books in the world. I am listening to a really good book right now called Electric Universe, that is about, it’s the history of electricity and I am learning so much, actually he calls it the shocking true story of electricity. But, by David Bodanis, and I just, am learning so much about the history, it’s fascinating and it really is kind of timely in a way because, well for instance Edison made his chops, was famous for being basically a patent thief. He – one of his big gigs was finding out, looking at patents, he looked at Alexander Graham Bell’s patent for the telephone, figuring out how they could steal ideas from it and make something a little bit better and make millions. He was a very wealthy man based on this and then goes after the light bulb, then goes after the record player.

Peter Rojas And then shocks elephants to get people not to use Tesla’s AC.

Leo Laporte Yeah, that wasn’t so great. Static – I’m sorry Electric Universe, this true story of electricity. It is narrated by Del Roy, David Bodanis reads it, it could be yours absolutely free, in fact you get two books free if you get the Platinum account. That’s what I have, two books a month.

Peter Rojas How much is the Platinum account?

Leo Laporte I don’t know. I just – it’s an automatic charge. I think it’s cheaper than getting the books a la carte. I mean it’s a really good idea to subscribe.

Peter Rojas That’s what I’m getting my parents. So my parents, I’m moving my parents to audible, because they buy tapes. They still buy all these tapes and I finally...

Leo Laporte Oh, that’s crazy.

Peter Rojas Well, I know, but I kept on saying you could do this and so I am just buying each one of them an iPod, they’re – both their birthdays are in April. I’m buying each one of them a little iPod and I am getting them a Platinum subscription and I am just going to convert them for one year and then I know that they’ll be done.

Leo Laporte Well, please do this, go to, sign up for the Platinum account. You get two books and those are yours to keep whether you decide to stick around or not. and I would definitely look at this Electric Universe, it is fascinating. The story I mean, Alexander Graham Bell invented the telephone because he fell in love with a deaf girl and was trying to impress her parents and the story is just amazing. Faraday, the story of laying the first transatlantic cable; the story of the telegraph, just fascinating stuff., thank them so much for their supportive of this WEEK in TECH. So forget the iPhone 3, we’ll talk about it next week. It is exciting.

Bwana McCall And Leo, I posted that link in the chat…

Leo Laporte Oh good.

Bwana McCall But I don’t see it, it’s called Prologue 2 or P-2, remember WordPress came out with the theme, a Twitter theme called Prologue and this one is called Prologue 2, it’s an improvement. It basically turns WordPress into Twitter, but I didn’t see anything about Jaiku specifically on that blog post.

Leo Laporte It’s interesting, interesting. Okay.

Bwana McCall But I thought it was.

Leo Laporte Turns WordPress into Twitter, I mean I have seen plug-ins for WordPress…

Bwana McCall Sorry, John.

John C. Dvorak I just want everyone to know that I tried and tried and tried.

Leo Laporte You’re going to get all this nice mail from people saying we love you, John, you should be on the show every week, it stopped them from doing...

John C. Dvorak Well, apparently what’s the point.

Leo Laporte Yes, you are not succeeding.

John C. Dvorak But I am waiting for the iPhone 3 story actually.

Leo Laporte Well, Kevin’s got a big rumour, David do you think Kevin’s source on this is pretty good?

David Prager I was off for a second, but if you are talking about what he said about Apple...

Leo Laporte The iPhone 3 rumour, the cut and paste.

David Prager Yeah, he’s got a very solid source.

John C. Dvorak Oh, stop the presses. Hold on a second…

David Prager But why go by hearsay from someone else.

Leo Laporte Well, you know, if you think about it, look it’s not that Kevin has great sources inside Apple, but because he runs Digg, who is the first, if you are going to be a tipster, who is the first person you go to, you go to Kevin. He has probably got excellent sources who just come to him.

David Prager What I think is weird is that a lot of times when a company leaks something, they do it strategically or there is someone who has ulterior motives, but for some reason I think a lot of the times with Kevin it’s people that are excited about being able to…

Leo Laporte Right.

David Prager …talk to him and give him…

Leo Laporte Right.

David Prager …something that he thinks is fun and cool and like you are giving something, you have something of value and you are a fan of somebody and being able to give something of value to your fan and therefore get attention from…

Leo Laporte Exactly.

David Prager …that person is the reason they do. That’s what I think it is.

Leo Laporte It is ironic, isn’t it that cut and paste would be like a big story…

John C. Dvorak Hold on, I’m blogging it.

Leo Laporte You know, what I’m praying for, Flash. If they put, every other phone is going to have Flash with this new initiative from Adobe except the iPhone.

David Prager It’s because they have a love affair with H.264.

Alex Lindsay No, no, Flash supports H.264.

David Prager Oh yeah, I think it’s...

Leo Laporte I think it’s they just don’t have – they have an anti-love affair with Adobe.

Alex Lindsay I think they have an anti-love affair with somebody else having a proprietary platform that they have to depend on.

Leo Laporte Well good news, you are in the cell phone business, get real, I mean this is, you are working with AT&T.

Alex Lindsay Yeah, I think that’s the issue that they wanted to be, they want it to be something that they don’t feel like suddenly that could be held over their head at some point in time down there.

Leo Laporte Peter, you are still connected to this world, what do your tipsters say about iPhone 3, anything?

Peter Rojas Well, I think the big question is what they are going to do about the app experience and so there is some rumours that there is going to be a premium app store, something to better highlight stuff, because there is, I mean there is so many applications there now and I think what’s happening is that the bigger developers feel like they are being swamped by a lot of crappy free and $0.99 apps, so something that lets them highlight their stuff, they can charge more and put a little more, invest a little more in the development process.

Leo Laporte Who would they charge more, would Apple get a bigger cut or would...

Peter Rojas I think the cut would be the same, but I mean if you are going to put a lot of work and try to create something where you charge like $19.99 or whatever for a game or for application, you don’t want that to be flooded with or surrounded by a bunch of free and $0.99 apps that makes it, it is harder to stand out and makes people feel like by comparison your price is too high. I think it’s going to be, I think they are going to make a big push into gaming with the iPhone this year.

Leo Laporte I mean it’s a great gaming platform, I love my games.

Peter Rojas And I think the question is whether the next iPhone is going to have a little more heft with the processor that can do better gaming.

Alex Lindsay Or if it’ll be bigger.

Leo Laporte Bwana go ahead.

Bwana McCall I think Apple has to use this event to e-crow about the background notification system.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Bwana McCall They really have to let us know why they scrapped it and what they're doing to replace it. They been ignoring it for months. They have to come out and say something either they're not going to do it or they’re going to do a different way or what's the story behind this. So, I think that's going to come out as well, something.

Leo Laporte Yeah. And now is this going to be a hardware, Peter, do you think this is the hardware platform for June that the 3O represents a new phone.

Peter Rojas You know it might look about the same and like I said have a little more power under the hood. But I do have to – I do wonder whether they're starting to worry a little bit about Palm. I don't think that they thought that the Pre would have quite as much buzz surrounding it as it would. I think they had written them off. We’re pretty excited about Palm, you know about the Pre and looking forward to coming out and the thing is the Pre is going to do a lot of things that Apple's refusing to do with the iPhone like have an actual keyboard right and that's a really big deal.

Leo Laporte And Flash.

Peter Rojas It won’t have Flash at launch though, that's something that'll probably happen around at the end of the year because the thing about Flash is that it is very resource intensive and that's very difficult to do on a mobile device, and Flash Lite never went anywhere.

Leo Laporte No, it wasn’t enough.

Bwana McCall One of things I'm hoping for is a stabler browser. I hope they fix a lot of those bugs because I'm still getting too many crashes on Mobile Safari, more than I want to.

Peter Rojas I get one almost every session.

Leo Laporte Really.

Peter Rojas Yeah.

Leo Laporte You know it’s not a bad crash, it just disappears. You know it’s like, you know you continue on but...

Bwana McCall Somebody said something really funny to me – it’s like – it said the iPhone tells you that you want to see the launch screen now. It’s like okay you don't want to see that, let’s go back...

Leo Laporte Let's go back to the launch screen.

Bwana McCall Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is better for you.

Leo Laporte Let's go back to the launch screen. Speaking of launches, we are about a minute away from the launch of the Space Shuttle Discovery. A night launch in Florida is always a beautiful sight to see, so if you're watching us on our live stream and about 6,000 of you are and I’m just going to so that you don't get left out. I'm going to put NASA TV up there and let you watch the launch as we continue to talk about Twitter, the iPhone and another crap you don't care about.

Bwana McCall If it was – if it was a little darker. I’m in Florida now, so I’m in...

Leo Laporte You will be able to see it.

Bwana McCall Yeah, if it’s a little darker, I could see, it literally lights up the sky, it’s like a second sun, it's pretty tremendous.

Leo Laporte I love night launches. I wish they do these more often.

Bwana McCall Oh yeah.

Leo Laporte Yeah. We can watch...

Alex Lindsay I used to take every – my mom would let me take every launch morning off, until the event.

Leo Laporte You know I grew up. I’m older than you, Alex but I grew up watching the NASA Apollo launches and the Gemini launches and you know watching Walter Cronkite sit there for eight hours while – we’ve got another hold but we’ll sit here. I've got a model of the Saturn rocket, look at it inside and you just sit back and watch and it was the most exciting thing we're going to the moon and it's – it's kind of I feel sad that we did it and we walked away from it. It just feels like we just kind of said okay. That's that, we can't afford really to do anymore of this. How do you guys feel about Mars exploration? You think that's a good thing.

Alex Lindsay I think it’s useful.

Leo Laporte I'd love to see a manned --

Alex Lindsay Problem is that if you do a manned mission…

Leo Laporte Mars mission

Alex Lindsay People like lose half their life going out and back.

Leo Laporte I know it's a long way. But you know I would do it.

Peter Rojas The radiation is going to – it kills you.

Leo Laporte Oh, really.

Peter Rojas It takes three months, right, something like that?

Leo Laporte Can’t you like put it in a giant globe of water that absorbs the cosmic particles and, I don’t know.

David Prager Hey, Leo, I think we lost, John.

Leo Laporte Well, the question is...

David Prager We only know that – we only know that because someone hasn't said wow, let’s get – let’s move on. Who cares about this show.

Leo Laporte I'll call John and we got 25 seconds to launch. So we'll just watch this night launch.

Mission Control Can we have the go for auto sequence start? Discovery’s onboard computers have primary control of all the vehicles' critical functions.

David Prager This is the first ever TWiT live broadcast of a launch.

Leo Laporte No actually I do NASA TV whenever I can because I know our audience loves this stuff. Look at that sparkler, look at that.

Mission Control 4, 3, 2, 1...

Leo Laporte Still gives me a chill.

Mission Control Booster ignition, lift off Space Shuttle Discovery taking the space station to full power, for full science.

Alex Lindsay Hey Leo, have you ever seen it in person?

Leo Laporte No, oh man… I just – I’m telling you, this is to me…

Mission Control Discovery’s roll manoeuvre is complete…

Leo Laporte This is what humans are meant to do.

Mission Control And is now in a head down position on track for flight…

David Prager ... that you could ever imagine I think.

Leo Laporte I mean this is – look at it, we are filling this planet up pretty quick. I think we need to explore.

David Prager Their carbon footprint’s not so good.

Leo Laporte Yeah, well, yeah, look at that. Let's not think about that.

David Prager I know, I know.

Leo Laporte That’s worse than Al Gore's jet right there.

John C. Dvorak No, not really.

Leo Laporte Hey, John’s back, John’s back.

John C. Dvorak Yes, thank you very much.

Leo Laporte Yes, I called you. We got – I figure you went out to baste your meat during the launch.

John C. Dvorak No, I’m not basting meat today.

Leo Laporte You’re up on – you’re up at Skullcrusher Mountain.

John C. Dvorak Skull crusher, I’m crushing skulls.

Leo Laporte I have to say that ever since...

Bwana McCall Every time I hear that…

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Bwana McCall Every time I hear that...

Alex Lindsay I know, I know, I know, every time I know exactly what you’re thinking

Leo Laporte I think of Challenger.

Bwana McCall I was outside in middle school watching it and oh, man, that’s a memory I’ll never forget.

Leo Laporte You watched that live?

David Prager I watched it live.

Bwana McCall Yeah.

Leo Laporte So you saw it break up over your head?

Bwana McCall And they told us they didn’t know what happened. And they’re feeding us all kinds of stories and like we don't know, they're okay though, they’re okay.

Leo Laporte Yes, they don't want to scare the little kids.

John C. Dvorak We should take a group of us, TWiT team and go watch one of these things.

Leo Laporte Let's do that. Can we do that? We have friends at NASA.

John C. Dvorak Oh yeah.

Leo Laporte We have lot of friends at NASA. In fact, they asked – I remember somebody coming by and ask us to come down to ....

Bwana McCall That trip I can take. That’s not too far for me. I’ll definitely make that trip.

Leo Laporte All right. Wow.

Bwana McCall It’s an amazing experience, I’m telling you.

Leo Laporte What is the latest of the budget for NASA? I guess our economy is just too tight right now to think about.

Alex Lindsay You know we need to spend money somewhere.

Leo Laporte He killed Orion, didn’t he? Is the Orion project dead or is it just temporarily delayed?

Bwana McCall I’m not sure but I remember seeing on the NASA website, they’ve got launches scheduled to 2011.

Alex Lindsay Well with a lot of these, there’s a billion dollars tied up in it and there’s nothing you can do. It’s more done than not.

Leo Laporte Anyway, I think all we geeks do believe in this. And I just would love to see more of this. And it’s still thrilling. So how many have you seen, Bwana, you’ve seen them all?

Bwana McCall No, I was in cub scouts when I was very, very young. And I don’t remember which one it was but I'll never forget it. It was tremendous. It literally shakes your organs.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Bwana McCall It was tremendous, nothing on earth like it.

Leo Laporte Amazing.

Bwana McCall Maybe an earthquake.

Leo Laporte Have you ever been in an earthquake?

Bwana McCall No.

Leo Laporte You don't want to be in an earthquake trust me.

John C. Dvorak Oh, they are not that big of a deal.

Bwana McCall I say that about hurricanes. Oh, they're not that big a deal.

Leo Laporte Yeah, no big deal.

Bwana McCall But you don’t want to be in one.

Leo Laporte Yeah, you kind of want to avoid that.

John C. Dvorak All right you know we should go to – maybe we should do it. Somebody kind of suggested this in an offhanded way. Maybe we should get our team together, get a hold of somebody from NASA and then have the – bring the Google boys with us and we will take the 767 down there.

David Prager I'm in, I’m in.

Peter Rojas That sounds like a plan. I am so there.

Leo Laporte We could do a live Diggnation. It'll be great, we'll all go down. How was that last night, David at South by Southwest, it looked like a zoo?

David Prager It was phenomenal. It was really great. It was a lot of fun. We – Stubb’s if anyone has been to Austin and gone to Stubb’s – it’s my favourite venue in probably half of Texas or all of Texas and so we – we gave them the call several months ago and asked them if we can come to the show there. And then – and they came through in a big way. And we're very flattered with all the people that showed up. It was phenomenal.

Leo Laporte Really neat, really neat. Well, if you want to catch it, they recorded another Diggnation today. I know. I saw pictures of it. You can catch that at

David Prager And this man right here, if you see him, the man right there just finished editing it, his name is Mauricio.

Leo Laporte Hey Mauricio.

David Prager And it's coming out Wednesday.

Leo Laporte All right. All right. Any – what else are you doing at South by Southwest, anything else planned?

David Prager We got a Totally Rad Show taping on Tuesday night. And I don't remember the name of the venue, do you know what it is Mal? No. Tuesday night, Totally Rad Show.

Leo Laporte David Prager live from the Revision3 house in Austin, Texas. Watch, lock those doors now, David.

David Prager Thanks.

Leo Laporte It's great to talk to you. Come back soon. I'm sorry it's been so long. We will get you back real soon.

David Prager No, thanks so much, I’ll be back soon.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Bwana McCall, is at

Bwana McCall Yeah, that’s the one.

Leo Laporte And you can watch him on Ustream all the time, right? You’re doing more and more stuff for video. I like your studio.

Bwana McCall Yeah, thank you. I’m doing more and more stuff, I’m trying to stream a little bit more, but like I said Ustream lately, you know I'm trying to find something stabler as a backup solution.

Leo Laporte Well that's why we ended up saying we're going to use three because one will always work, right?

Bwana McCall Yeah. But I'm still pumping out videos at and you can find me on I'm pretty much Bwana everywhere.

Leo Laporte I forgot to tell everybody David Prager is DL Prager on Twitter as well. As long as we’re talking Twitter, follow David, you never know what's going to happen next. It’s a laugh a minute. Bwana is just B W A N A, right?

Bwana McCall That's correct.

Leo Laporte On Twitter? Alex Lindsay is Alex Lindsay. He is of course the man at the Pixel Corps and hosts a number of shows on our network including MacBreak Weekly and starting Monday soon we're going to have TWiP come out of the studios, right? What is that going to start?

Alex Lindsay It’s going to start after – well, it’s going to start in late April.

Leo Laporte Sometime.

Alex Lindsay There's some stuff that we're working on. So that’s going to be coming up --

Leo Laporte But we do have this WEEK in MEDIA coming out of the studio every Monday night.

Alex Lindsay Yeah, I think this week, I think Daisy’s doing it in, at South by Southwest.

Leo Laporte Oh, cool.

Alex Lindsay I think she’s using the PBS station, I think.

Leo Laporte Oh, that’s exciting.

Alex Lindsay You know, and so…

Leo Laporte We love having her in here. It's really nice to have the show.

Alex Lindsay She had a great time on the board.

Leo Laporte She ran the board. She switched the cameras. She did the whole thing.

Alex Lindsay She took over and she was like, I'm ready to go. So she's very excited about that.

Leo Laporte That’s really awesome. Well, I’d like to be on that show. Maybe I’ll come in next time, a week from Monday.

Alex Lindsay That’ll be great.

Leo Laporte, John C. Dvorak is at channeldvorak, his new website where you'll find everything you'd ever want to know about that Windows hating, Twitter loathing, iPhone 3.0 scathing kind of a guy.

John C. Dvorak THErealDVORAK would be the Twitter thing.

Leo Laporte “I hate Twitter but go ahead and follow me.”

John C. Dvorak I sound a little more like this than...

Leo Laporte I know, everybody mocks John doing that, I don't know why because you don't sound like that.

John C. Dvorak I have a very melodic voice.

Leo Laporte You have a mellifluous voice. Yes.

Bwana McCall When you get upset, John, sometimes you go a little high pitch. Sometimes, not that high though.

John C. Dvorak What, maybe, maybe.

Alex Lindsay We wouldn’t do it all the same if it wasn't… there must be some truth in it.

Leo Laporte No, come on. John co-hosts No Agenda with Adam Curry, could you tell Adam to stop ragging on me? Thank you very much.

John C. Dvorak You know I don't think he is – that was a month ago.

Leo Laporte Oh, I see, okay, I still hear that.

John C. Dvorak I told him that you and him should not even talk about each other. It is just like too much of it, you know what I’m saying? Free publicity. Free publicity.

Leo Laporte He is on my list. Also the And...

John C. Dvorak When are you going to come and do Cranky Geeks again?

Leo Laporte One of these days.

John C. Dvorak You are actually one the better guests because when you're not hosting you're actually a bundle of information.

Leo Laporte I know a lot of crap.

John C. Dvorak Which people don't appreciate because you are hosting.

David Prager John you have to get Roger Chang on more, Roger Chang is the biggest, biggest cranky geek I’ve ever met next to you.

Leo Laporte And he's great because…

John C. Dvorak Well, let’s put Roger on with Leo.

Leo Laporte That’ll be fine. You ask Roger about military aircraft and you just get a dissertation. It's like he reads Jane’s Monthly as bedside reading, it’s like bizarre.

Alex Lindsay We should find out if Roger’s going to NAB because I might be going to see some planes.

Leo Laporte Oh, in Vegas they have liked the …?

David Prager That’s in April, right?

Alex Lindsay No, no, we have some – I have some friends that work in places with planes.

Leo Laporte And Mr. Peter Rojas I am so glad you're on the show today, thank you so much for being here.

Peter Rojas Thanks for having me, finally.

Leo Laporte Finally.

Peter Rojas You ask Ryan all the time.

Leo Laporte I know, well, that's it, no more of that Ryan guy. It's you man, you're the man. Or I’ll get you and Ryan, how about that?

Peter Rojas You can do that but people can’t tell our voices apart.

Leo Laporte You do sound a lot alike.

Peter Rojas Yeah, I know.

Leo Laporte Well you’re both great and I'm really glad we can get you on and I'm a big fan of the podcast you two do,

Peter Rojas Thanks and we have a great site coming soon.

Leo Laporte He's been saying that for a long time.

Peter Rojas I know we have been saying that for a long time.

Leo Laporte What is the hold up? Is it just that you’ve got it and you’re tweaking it or…?

Peter Rojas Yeah, we're just trying to get it right and since it's a little slow right now with the economy, we feel like we can just take our time and we don't feel like any compulsion to rush it out the door, which is kind of nice, I mean, a year and half ago it would’ve been totally different.

Leo Laporte Right. Well there's nobody breathing down your neck.

Peter Rojas Exactly.

Leo Laporte That's for sure.

Peter Rojas And the thing is Ryan only left Engadget at the end of August. So it really hasn’t been that long.

Leo Laporte You're right, it hasn't been that long. Well it's great having you on, Peter, thank you, I really appreciate it.

Peter Rojas Thank you.

Leo Laporte And I thank you all for being here. Don't forget of course you can listen to TWiT by subscribing to it at iTunes, it's a great place to get every issue of all of our TWiT podcasts, just search for TWiT in the iTunes Music Store, we have a dozen podcasts on all kinds of topics and once you subscribe, you’ll get it automatically. We also stream live pretty much all the time on, you can always watch our live broadcast of TWiT by tuning in at 3:00 P.M. Pacific, 6:00 P.M. Eastern on Sundays. And we have some – also frequently have stuff going on afterwards and all sorts of parties in here…

Alex Lindsay I’m working on getting some more artists in here.

Leo Laporte Good, love having the music here. That’s really great.

Alex Lindsay Yeah, that’ll be awesome.

Leo Laporte Don't forget that your donations keep us going and flowing and they do help us quite a bit. I know you hear ads on the show but the ads just get us part of the way there, it’s your donations that really make the difference and you could donate by going to and pressing one of those buttons. One of these days, when you pay five bucks, you'll be able to shoot me in the head with a nerf arrow, it’s my dream.

Alex Lindsay I think since you’re reading about electricity, little shocks.

Leo Laporte I have a dream. It's just, I’m a simple man with simple dreams, but some day I will have a nerf arrow to the heart.

What else there is – oh, I was going to mention the TWiTpick by the way. If you go to Colleen does these, they are great and there are picks from all of our shows. And today's pick is – this is kind of amazing, the Hitachi one terabyte hard drive, $88.

Alex Lindsay One terabyte?

Leo Laporte A terabyte. Unbelievable.

Alex Lindsay Wow. Is this like the TWiT version of Woot?

Leo Laporte No, this is an Amazon price, this isn’t even you know a special price that we are offering you, it’s not an ad. This is, we wanted to – we talk about stuff all the time on the shows. We just want to make it easy for you to find the stuff. So, TWiT – but it isn't that – turns out it's not that easy –

Thank you all for joining us, we'll see you next time, another TWiT is in the can.