TWiT 189/Transcript

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Episode 189


This transcript is provided by our friends at Pods in Print

Leo Laporte Bandwidth for this WEEK in TECH is provided by AOL Radio at

This is TWiT, this WEEK in TECH, episode 189 for April 6, 2009, The Twitter Episode.

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Leo Laporte This is TWiT, episode 189, ladies and gentlemen and once again, we are all in studio and I like doing it that way because we can look deep into each others’ eyes and see the madness inside. Let’s – let’s…

Brian Brushwood The darkness of your souls.

Leo Laporte Let’s start with a first-timer. A newbie, but he’s fit in so very well right off the top. Mr. Brian Brushwood of Scam School. Direct from his engagement at the Jay Leno Show. That must have been fun.

Brian Brushwood Yeah that was fun. It was fun. It was a lot of fun. I mean they treat you right. I mean they pick you up with the limo, they do the whole thing.

Roger Chang Did you felt that you were well-managed for a show of that size, like they kept – “okay, Brian, you stay here, someone is going to come over, going to talk to you…”

Brian Brushwood They do a really good job of that. And one of the ways –

Leo Laporte What’s the pre-interview? They do a pre-interview, right?

Brian Brushwood Yes, yes, and they worked out the chit chat beforehand and...

Leo Laporte There is no, there is no – nothing is left to chance like this show.

Roger Chang No, no, no…

Brian Brushwood They have multiple outs on the chit chat and they found one that they thought they liked and –

Leo Laporte Did my people call you and pre-interview you for the show?

Brian Brushwood Am I supposed to say yes?

Leo Laporte No.

Brian Brushwood Okay. No, no pre-interview. Everything is authentic here.

Leo Laporte Well. So, his chin, as big as it looks?

Brian Brushwood Yes, his whole body and face is –

Sarah Lane How tall is he?

Brian Brushwood Yes, he is gigantic. I wear like – I am a short guy. So, I wear like two inch lifts and I got two inches of my hair. It’s ridiculous, but it’s like – I mean I looked like a child

Sarah Lane I have four and…

Leo Laporte Is that what the hair is about, it’s trying to give you height?

Brian Brushwood Actually it’s to look like Guile from Street Fighter II, basically.

Roger Chang Ah, right.

Leo Laporte That’s fair. That other voice, we haven’t heard this voice in a long time. It’s so nice to see Mr. Roger Chang on the show. Roger, we missed you.

Roger Chang Hello! I’d try to make it up here more often...

Leo Laporte Well, now that we know there is wine involved, I hope you will come up more often.

Roger Chang Yes.

Leo Laporte No, you are not a wine drinker. I can get you fruit juice?

Roger Chang Sure. Or rum.

Leo Laporte Rum?

Brian Brushwood They go hand in hand really.

Leo Laporte Roger Chang is – you are now at Revision3, part of the Tekzilla team?

Roger Chang Yes, I do produce Tekzilla and System.

Leo Laporte That’s great.

Roger Chang And we –

Leo Laporte Are you on camera much? Do you get much camera time?

Roger Chang I did the last System and that’s just because we’re trying to manage our budget. So, it didn’t cost me – doesn’t cost me anything to put…

Leo Laporte To book yourself.

Roger Chang …myself on.

Leo Laporte Yes and the pre-interview’s very quick.

Roger Chang Yes.

Leo Laporte Roger, do you know anything? No, I don’t. Okay fine.

Roger Chang Perfect

Leo Laporte You are great for the show. Well, you’re signed up. Well it’s so nice to see you. I really appreciate your coming up. You are the greatest. How’s the folks in Modesto, The Seafood Galley? It’s going well?

Roger Chang Good. The Fisherman’s Galley…

Leo Laporte Fisherman’s Galley.

Roger Chang …is still going. It’s – that whole town is kind of weird still. It’s probably gone weird since it became car theft capital of the United States.

Leo Laporte They call it fat city.

Brian Brushwood P-h-a-t or...

Leo Laporte No, just f-a-t.

Brian Brushwood Oh, okay.

Roger Chang And what’s funny is because of the past 10 years, so many people from the East Bay, San Francisco, were moving out there because housing was so affordable, and now with the kind of...

Leo Laporte Now, the crash.

Brian Brushwood …recession, there is a bunch of – you literally have track homes, just rows and rows of it that are empty because no one bought into them.

Leo Laporte Do you know what is sad in this recession, is that people are stuck in their homes. They buy homes, they get upside down. The job leaves but they can’t because they are stuck in the house.

Roger Chang Well, in some cases, people are betting that it’s probably easier to bite the bullet and just...

Leo Laporte Just leave.

Roger Chang …default

Leo Laporte Leave the keys.

Roger Chang Default on it and just walk away.

Leo Laporte Yes, that’s sad. Also here, ladies and gentlemen, the beautiful, the talented, the…

Sarah Lane Drunk.

Leo Laporte …friendly. I wasn’t going to say that.

Brian Brushwood Host of her new soundboard.

Leo Laporte Sarah Lane.

Sarah Lane Hello.

Leo Laporte From, I want to say, I am happy to say from this WEEK in FUN which is soon to be a podcast near you.

Sarah Lane Yes, tomorrow.

Leo Laporte Yes, we are going to make an audio version of that, the first one....

Sarah Lane Very exciting

Leo Laporte ...and we have old ones there we’ll probably put out as well.

Sarah Lane I would love that.

Leo Laporte With Martin Sargent. That’s a show she does live here on TWiT Live every Friday at 6 pm Eastern 3 pm Pacific.

Sarah Lane Correct, which is super fun.

Leo Laporte What is the – the show’s kind of like, just kind of wacky?

Sarah Lane This is a good this WEEK in FUN really. This will...

Leo Laporte This would be a this WEEK in FUN.

Sarah Lane It could be.

Leo Laporte If you want to add wine to this WEEK in FUN, be my guest.

Sarah Lane I will. Well –

Brian Brushwood Just make sure it’s from the right source.

Sarah Lane We got to be careful with Martin, because he is a real lightweight, that Sargent.

Leo Laporte Is he? Is he really? That’s funny.

Sarah Lane No. Not at all.

Leo Laporte Seems like he would have really good resistance.

Sarah Lane Yes, no, he has had many years of practice. He is pretty good.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Sarah Lane But yes. So, we are part of the group here, but I am thrilled to be part of TWiT. It has been a while since I was up here...

Leo Laporte Has it really?

Sarah Lane ...on a Sunday. Yes, I mean –

Leo Laporte I feel like we see you all the time but you are right, coming up on a Sunday is something different.

Sarah Lane I think it was 2008 last time I was here. So –

Brian Brushwood On a Sunday.

Leo Laporte What?

Brian Brushwood It’s a totally different year.

Sarah Lane On a Sunday, yes.

Leo Laporte That’s a whole different year.

Sarah Lane That’s a whole different – I mean it seems like yesterday.

Leo Laporte Well, let’s talk a little bit about the tech stories in the news. I have a few of them, not a whole lot. I think the story is really irritating people this week, is Time Warner. They have announce – and it’s irritating me, because frankly everything I do requires huge amounts of bandwidth – they were trying in Texas, they are trying data caps and they have announced that they are now going to spread them to some other Time Warner customers, really kind of signalled this is going to be permanent. 40 gigabyte caps per month on your download. Now Comcast gives you...

Roger Chang 200…

Brian Brushwood 250.

Roger Chang 250, 240 or 250? 250.

Brian Brushwood 250.

Leo Laporte 250? AT&T gives you 150. 40 is a little low.

Brian Brushwood I am in one of those markets. Austin, Texas is one of the markets.

Leo Laporte You are going to be bit. Now, are you Time Warner customer?

Brian Brushwood I am a Time Warner customer and I have –

Leo Laporte How do you feel about this?

Brian Brushwood Well, I have always done the Time Warner Road Runner Turbo which is awesome, Like they guarantee at least 15 megabits down and I usually get like 22 megabits down and....

Leo Laporte That’s great.

Brian Brushwood 1.5 up.

Leo Laporte But now, you may not want to have so much bandwidth, because that’s means you eat up your cap quicker.

Brian Brushwood Well, I did some detective work. I actually called Time Warner this morning and talked to the folks over in tech support and said I am a little bit concerned about crazy bandwidth caps, or actually I guess download caps. And the guy had this kind of attitude, you could tell that he had been dealing with this all morning and he was like… ‘eurgh, that article.’

Leo Laporte So, it’s not true?

Brian Brushwood And, well, according to some faceless person I spoke onto a phone queue basically, he said – he said no, his exact words were he was like ‘well, we are trying it out to see how people react.’

Leo Laporte BS, BS! They are doing it.

Sarah Lane Not well, I predict.

Brian Brushwood But when I brought it up, he was like, ‘besides it won’t affect you, you are a Turbo customer anyway. You could do whatever you want…’

Leo Laporte Oh! That’s interesting.

Brian Brushwood ...and I was like ‘well yes, if the cap is 40’ And he cut me off. He was like ‘the cap is not 40.’ And so – and I was like, ‘well how do you know?’ He’s like ‘we have internal – I mean the cap is not going to be 40.’

Leo Laporte All right, let me read to you from Business Week magazine in April, on Business Week. This is fairly credible. We are not making this up. Tom Laurie writing:

“In April, Time Warner Cable will begin [and you must like this, Brian,] collecting information on its customers’ internet use in the Texas cities of Austin and San Antonio and of Rochester, New York. Consumption billing [boy those are two words you don’t want to hear] will begin in those cities later this summer.”

So, what is he telling you is no, not yet.

Brian Brushwood Right. Well, he’s saying that – now, here’s something quirky that I don’t know that I believe. I could tell that they all had a team meeting and they wanted this to be the line, but he said ‘well, if you sign up for a two-year contract, you get the price guarantee’

Leo Laporte That’s probably true right? They can’t change that.

Brian Brushwood ...and there is no way even if we do put a cap in there, we are not allowed to change it.

Leo Laporte I would look at the EULA [End User License Agreement].

Brian Brushwood I am the same way, because I am just like, I know that’s what you are telling me now and...

Leo Laporte I would look at the EULA.

Brian Brushwood ...we are having a conversation here

Leo Laporte I am willing to bet the EULA say that at any time w can impose additional strictures and limitations on your use.

Brian Brushwood But he did – I felt them out and I said ‘ well can you give me some idea what the cap would be for reals?’ He was like ‘Oh! I don’t know – 100, 200.’

Leo Laporte No. 40.

Brian Brushwood That’s what he said. He said that...

Sarah Lane 40 and every gig you go over is a buck...

Brian Brushwood Is a buck. Right.

Sarah Lane ...and that’s going to add up fast.

Roger Chang Wait, how much do you pay right now for that complete service, including taxes and all that?

Brian Brushwood It’s over 50 bucks. It’s somewhere between 50 and $60.

Roger Chang Would you pay 100 bucks if you had like...

Leo Laporte Then you’d had 80 gigs, right?

Roger Chang …or like no cap.

Leo Laporte Oh, no cap.

Roger Chang bandwidth cap or a higher bandwidth cap.

Brian Brushwood Let me tell you, I probably would, because there was a time back in the old, old days, Austin was not first on the high-speed bandwagon and there was a time I paid a 120 bucks a month for the satellite junk, for just the one way, for dial up, up and high speed down for like 1.5 megabits.

Leo Laporte Yes but you know what, there are people in Japan paying 20 bucks for 100 megabits down. I mean this is not because it actually costs that much money to these guys. This is anti-competitive, this is Time Warner saying we are in the TV business and if you should download too much TV, we are not going to make any money. So, we want a limit. You could surf, you could do email, but don’t you download any high def movies from iTunes.

Brian Brushwood Have you noticed how quickly they have given up the P-to-P straw man? It’s like they are not even acting like it’s bit torrent related, it’s all Hulu.

Leo Laporte But this is their real response, right? And it isn’t just P-to-P. It’s Hulu, it’s iTunes, it’s all the other places you get it from.

Roger Chang It’s the high bandwidth stuff which tends to be video.

Leo Laporte And tends to be what I do which is where...

Sarah Lane And tends to be a lot more available than ever.

Brian Brushwood And revision3 as well.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Sarah Lane I mean…

Roger Chang I mean I will be honest....

Sarah Lane …HD videos are really...

Roger Chang …I have cable, cable modem. And I get the 250 cap. But I am probably going to cancel my expanded basic and just go with basic.

Leo Laporte That’s what they hate. They don’t want you.

Brian Brushwood I have already done that.

Roger Chang Because I watch Netflix off my Xbox instead of Netflix on demand

Leo Laporte You stream – but see that’s what happens. You stream high-def Netflix, this is what they are terrified of. They don’t make nearly as much money off of you as they do with an HBO subscription.

Brian Brushwood Now, I wonder what it would take to change that. Like I mean is the problem that Hulu is just not charging enough for their ads? If they were making more money from the ads but all of a sudden they prefer that you watch the ads on...

Roger Chang No, cable doesn’t make money from the shows that get produced, they get money from the carriage fees. So, if they don’t have anything to carry other than data, I mean then the amount they can charge you for like HBO show time or even like when they give you those special sports package or the Discovery science package, they make money off that. And if people are not going to watch it, then they are not making that money they have been making.

Leo Laporte Cable’s business model is based on premium content.

Brian Brushwood Yes.

Leo Laporte They are not a commodity service, they are not a utility. If it just comes down to bits, they can’t make enough money and they are screwed. And so – but this is – to me this is anti-competitive. This is cable, Time Warner Cable saying well, you better not do this because we are going to charge you a buck a gigabyte.

Brian Brushwood Well, I will tell you this much. It sounded – I got every impression from this nobody I spoke to on a tech line that if people make a stink, they are listening. Like this is a tentative step and who knows...

Leo Laporte Make a stink.

Roger Chang Make a stink now.

Brian Brushwood Make a stink. That’s – I told them, I was like ‘look, if there is any cap, I am switching to a different company.’

Leo Laporte This is the problem is, though, who do you switch to?

Brian Brushwood That’s what he said. He said, what you’re going to switch to AT&T? They got a cap too.

Leo Laporte See, they know this, they know this. AT&T is 150. See, they know this. There is not really competition in this market is there? I mean...

Brian Brushwood Yes.

Leo Laporte ...that’s the real problem is that there’s...

Sarah Lane At my house I only have one choice, ComCast.

Leo Laporte You don’t even have DSL?

Sarah Lane Nope.

Brian Brushwood DSL.

Leo Laporte So, at best you got DSL and cable, right? That’s it. And they are colluding anyway

Roger Chang Unless PG&E does like – starts supporting fiber through their gas lines.

Sarah Lane Does what?!

Brian Brushwood I would like to sign up for the gas fiber network.

Roger Chang No, no, no, I mean when I was in college, a couple of students from Belgium were saying that – is it Antwerp, that’s the capital of Belgium?

Sarah Lane Yes.

Roger Chang They were running fiber optic lines – the utilities were running fiber optic lines through the gas link because it was the most affordable way to lay out internet….

Leo Laporte You mean they like feed it into the pipe?

Brian Brushwood That’s brilliant

Roger Chang Yes, and because it’s light it’s not going to ignite the gas. And you’re running it over the…

Leo Laporte That’s a relief.

Roger Chang It’s like trying to light a candle with a flashlight; it’s not going to happen.

Leo Laporte It’s not going to ignite the gas. You’ve got nothing to fear. Wow, so they could like feed it into the pipe.

Roger Chang You already have that infrastructure. You just…

Leo Laporte I never thought of that. That’s an interesting point.

Roger Chang And then they would come out into that residential area. They would put up the little unit and then just feed it into the homes.

Leo Laporte I’m just – it makes me a little bit nervous because I just feel like it’s me and you Brian, and you Roger that they are coming after, and you Sarah Lane, all the people who are doing internet video. These are the ones that scare them the most.

Brian Brushwood [13:50] You know what it reminds me of is when gas prices were high and all of the airlines instituted carriage fees for the baggage. Now you pay a first bag fee…

Roger Chang God I hate that.

Brian Brushwood …a second bag fee, a third. And now gas prices are back down ….

Leo Laporte Yeah, well the fees, do they go away? No.

Brian Brushwood …and they’re still charging them, right? And it’s the same thing here. It used to be, the P2P to be was the big boogie man. It’s all BitTorrent, it’s all these losers’ faults. And then now they are not even claiming – They are like ‘ah you guys are watching too much video.’

Leo Laporte Is it Netflix they’re worried about?

Roger Chang Brussels, I’m sorry, someone just corrected me. It’s Brussels is the capital of Belgium.

Leo Laporte What did you say?

Sarah Lane Ah…..

Roger Chang I said Antwerp.

Sarah Lane Ant… I thought ….

Leo Laporte I don’t even remember him saying Belgium.

Roger Chang You know why? Because I hear that stupid ad…

Sarah Lane Shane Company?

Roger Chang Yes, on the radio.

Leo Laporte I go to Antwerp to buy diamonds.

Sarah Lane If you want to buy diamonds for your special lady, come to Shane Company.

Leo Laporte Oh God, The Shane Company.

Brian Brushwood Before this, I didn’t realize that was an ad you guys were quoting. I thought this was a popular song that I was not aware of and I’m like…

Leo Laporte You are so unhip.

Brian Brushwood …that’ll be the worst song ever.

Leo Laporte Hey that’s the name of my new band, The Shane Company. That’d be a good band.

Sarah Lane Now it’s just Shane Co.

Leo Laporte Shane Co.

Sarah Lane

Leo Laporte That’s so sad.

Sarah Lane Is that sad? I actually really want to meet Tom Shane. I’ve been listening for him for so many years. I think he might a really cool guy.

Leo Laporte Don’t you have those Shane Company ads in Austin? I would think they would

Brian Brushwood No.

Sarah Lane They’re Californian. They’re only in California.

Leo Laporte They’re only California? Oh! I thought they were everywhere.

Sarah Lane Yes, I don’t think they would go any further south than San José.

Leo Laporte There’s a lot of people listening who have no idea what we’re talking about.

Sarah Lane Oh, he’s great. Look up Tom Shane, wonderful man.

Roger Chang Yes, he hawks diamonds. And you know what, if you’re planning to invest money, don’t invest it in diamonds. They’re probably one of the worst investments you can make.

Leo Laporte De Beers can take you down.

Sarah Lane Well…

Roger Chang Invest in gold or platinum.

Leo Laporte Wait a minute.

Brian Brushwood I’m going to invest in fine wine.

Sarah Lane Girls might beg to differ with you.

Leo Laporte Tom is a girl’s best friend.

Sarah Lane They seem to like diamonds quite a bit.

Brian Brushwood But gold will give you a better return over the long term…

Sarah Lane No girl’s going to want to hear that argument.

Leo Laporte That’s a great line.

Sarah Lane ‘You don’t love me enough!’

Brian Brushwood ‘This Week in Paranoia.’

Sarah Lane ‘If you loved me enough, you’d get me a diamond.’

Leo Laporte I don’t think Marilyn Monroe sang it that way, did she? “Diamonds are a girl’s best friend.”

Sarah Lane …But gold has a better return.

Roger Chang Hey, you know what? If you can insert it at the end, why not?

Leo Laporte There’s another one for the Roger Chang soundboard actually.

We’re going to take a break, when we come back I want to talk about Netflix because we were – we kind of started a Netflix conversation, their 2 billionth delivery. But there’s trouble in the Netflix Garden of Eden. There’s trouble ahead.

I do want to mention our friends at Carbonite is Online Backup done right and I’m a big fan of Carbonite, as many of you know. I use Carbonite after the incident. We just here around the TWiT cottage call it the incident.

Sarah Lane The incident and you’re okay? You’re moving on.

Leo Laporte I survived the incident but it wasn’t a happy incident.

Sarah Lane No.

Roger Chang By the way…

Leo Laporte Do you know what the incident was? You’re sounding like you know what the incident was.

Roger Chang I do not know.

Sarah Lane Well, I didn’t…you know.

Brian Brushwood I think that I can infer that there was a problem from the incident.

Leo Laporte There was a problem, I recorded – okay, first I recorded two FLOSS Weeklies with, I think it was Brian Aker, lost them both. So we called them back, said we lost your interview, can we do it again? We did it again and we lost it again.

Sarah Lane Oh, icky.

Leo Laporte I accidentally erased it. And so I had to send him a basket of fruits and vegetables. Like $100

Brian Brushwood He gets vegetables? What vegetables do you throw in there?

Sarah Lane Parsnips for his troubles.

Leo Laporte Parsnips – I was very – I think I send him a coffee basket, a lot of different coffee, because I’d say he’s a programmer. Coffee right?

Then, this was worse, I lost 10 Daily Giz Wizs and that was when I said I got to find a better a way. And that’s when I found Carbonite, you install it on your PC and I’ve got it running right now on the PC. In fact you could try it free for two weeks right now, if you go to and use the offer code Leo. No credit card, nothing, you just try it. And what happens is it immediately starts backing up your precious files, financial documents, photos, music, in my case, podcasts.

Brian Brushwood By the way, I thought of Carbonite when I heard about the …

Leo Laporte The incident?

Brian Brushwood ….the caps. No, no, no, the caps for Time Warner.

Leo Laporte Well there’s a good example.

Brian Brushwood If you have got a 200 gigabyte hard drive filled with valuable files, how are you going to get that onto Carbonite?

Leo Laporte I didn’t even think of that. Do they measure uploads as well as downloads? I guess they.

Brian Brushwood Yes.

Roger Chang Probable, I think that would be pure usage.

Leo Laporte Oh, Carbonite’s got to really listen and pay attention and do something about this.

Well, fortunately most of us don’t have caps yet, it is unlimited from Carbonite’s end and I’ve uploaded, I think more than 50 gigabytes worth of podcasts, $5 a month, less than $5 a month. It’s secure, it’s encrypted at your end, 128 bit encrypted and at Carbonite’s end, so your privacy is absolutely secure. You don’t have to worry about that. Restoration, just a couple of clicks of the mouse. Now look, your backup has to include local backup and we do that, but it also has to include off-site backup and that’s why I really think Carbonite is a great solution. It just happens. Backed up in the background without you paying any attention to it. It’s doing it right now.

I don’t have to worry about podcasts anymore and I want you to give a try. C-A-R-B-O-N-I-T-E, If you do use the two-week free trial and you sign up, you get two-months free as well. But you have to do the trial. Carbonite, C-A-R-B-O-N-I-T-E dot com, get two-month’s free with the offer code Twit,

Brian Brushwood Can I ask one question about Carbonite?

Leo Laporte Yes, sir.

Brian Brushwood The – and maybe I am misremembering because my brain is idiotic, but I thought at some point that they didn’t upload media like, if you have MP3s…

Leo Laporte No, anything.

Brian Brushwood So, it’s anything now.

Leo Laporte Anything.

Brian Brushwood Oh that’s fantastic.

Leo Laporte Well yes, it’s great. Believe me if it weren’t MP3s, I’d be in trouble.

Brian Brushwood Okay, good, well good, because that was one of my first…

Leo Laporte I think it is. No, no it is, no absolutely. The thing is it’s – it doesn’t do external drives, it’s what’s on your computer.

Brian Brushwood On the core drives.

Leo Laporte On the core drives. So what I do is, we back it up to a NAS drive and it’s on the hard drive. I had to tell Dane this. Dane said, ‘well it’s on the NAS, so I deleted it from my local computer.’ I said, ‘no Dane, that’s not a backup. That’s just a copy somewhere else. You have to have two to have a backup.’

Brian Brushwood Especially off-site.

Leo Laporte Yes, so that’s exactly right. We back up locally. Immediately after the show I put it on the NAS.

Brian Brushwood Even like home movies like AVI, that kind of thing?

Leo Laporte Yes, yes, yes.

Brian Brushwood Okay, because I was under the impression…

Leo Laporte Oh no, absolutely.

Brian Brushwood I am very excited to hear this. This is good news for me then.

Leo Laporte [19:49] Moving along, Netflix notches its two billionth delivery, ladies and gentlemen, the two billionth disk…

Sarah Lane Two billion…

Leo Laporte …was sent. Want to take a guess for the billionth movie was.

Roger Chang Was it a recent movie?

Sarah Lane I know already.

Leo Laporte You know already?

Sarah Lane Well, I ….

Leo Laporte I was going to say it’s probably one of your favourites. Yes, it was recent movie.

Sarah Lane I haven’t seen it, actually.

Leo Laporte You haven’t seen it. Me neither.

Sarah Lane It’s too rom com for me.

Leo Laporte What’s rom com?

Sarah Lane Romantic comedy.

Roger Chang Romantic comedy.

Leo Laporte Oh I’m sorry, I didn’t have enough syllables.

Sarah Lane Yes.

Leo Laporte Oh, I am sorry. I’m moving too fast, I can’t say romantic comedy, I have to say rom com.

Sarah Lane Yes, yes.

Leo Laporte Is that it? Is your life so fast that you don’t time to say...

Sarah Lane No, that’s just something that people say.

Leo Laporte Rom com, I like it.

Sarah Lane Yes, I read a lot of movie reviews.

Leo Laporte Anything with Jennifer Aniston, rom com.

Sarah Lane Totally.

Leo Laporte Anything with…

Brian Brushwood Is that a clue to as to what the movie was?

Sarah Lane Hugh Grant, rom com.

Leo Laporte Hugh Grant, rom com.

Roger Chang What’s the last movie Hugh Grant made?

Leo Laporte He just made – he had a movie just came out.

Sarah Lane He did? Four Weddings And A Funeral? They’re all the same.

Leo Laporte No, no, no, no, no. They are all the same, it’s the same movie.

Sarah Lane It’s all Hugh being charming...

Leo Laporte It’s not Love Actually, it’s the one after that.

Sarah Lane …and British.

Roger Chang Oh, some Notting….

Leo Laporte Notting Hill was good. That was a good one.

Sarah Lane Runaway, no that was Richard Gere.

Leo Laporte Runaway Bunny?

Sarah Lane Runaway Bride.

Leo Laporte You have a two-year old. You know that one, Brian Brushwood.

Brian Brushwood The runaway rom com, that’s what it was.

Leo Laporte What do you read to your two-year old?

Brian Brushwood She loves actually the old Laura Ingalls Wilder, Little House On The Prairie.

Leo Laporte You’re reading her that? That’s very advanced, that’s a chapter book.

Brian Brushwood And she loves it and like we sit down to have a meal and she goes this is as tasty as a bear. And you know, because they had a bear.

Leo Laporte Oh, isn’t that cute?

Sarah Lane I love Little House On The Prairie. I read them all 1,400 times.

Leo Laporte That’s so cute. I read them and I read them with my daughter, because yeah, they are great books.

Sarah Lane They are really good.

Leo Laporte So, not Runaway Bunny, not Goodnight Moon.

Brian Brushwood She loves Runaway Bunny and Goodnight Moon but she is at that age now where she wants to get in to more advanced plots, she loves feeling –

Leo Laporte …Chapter books. How old is she?

Brian Brushwood She just turned five.

Leo Laporte Oh she is five.

Brian Brushwood But we started reading when she was barely four.

Sarah Lane She did not quite reading it but she wants to hear it read to her.

Brian Brushwood Right, right. She’s not reading on her own.

Sarah Lane The more intricate stories and for fun.

Leo Laporte Five is so cute. I found – and somebody uploaded to my the other day, Henry and Abby, when Henry was eight and Abby was ten on the screensavers and oh my eyes, I almost burst into tears seeing that. That wasn’t that long ago but they sure look different now.

Sarah Lane They were tiny.

Leo Laporte They were little.

Roger Chang I remember it when it was just Abby.

Sarah Lane I remember Abby being shy and having a lunch box and…

Leo Laporte Yes.

Sarah Lane …I mean it’s just very different.

Roger Chang I have those pictures when you brought Abby over to Santa Clara.

Leo Laporte Yes, you uploaded those. Thank you so much for uploading those to Flickr. I sent them to Abby, she’s in France, I said remember this? That was the one where she said, ‘why are these people lining up for your autograph?’ And I said well, it’s really not the signature, it’s that they want to have a moment with you and kind of talk to you. And she said – and she was what, she was eight, seven. She said, ‘why don’t you give them a vial of your spit?’

Brian Brushwood She said that at that age? That’s awesome.

Leo Laporte You would do that Brian.

Brian Brushwood Yes, I would. Especially if my daughter asks me to. Do anything for her.

Leo Laporte Vials of spit.

Brian Brushwood That’s right.

Leo Laporte Anyway Net – I don’t know how we get…

Sarah Lane …Vials of blood

Brian Brushwood Yeah what was the segue to this? I want to know.

Leo Laporte …totally distracted

Sarah Lane It started at rom com.

Brian Brushwood Rom com, yes.

Sarah Lane It was Nick and Norah's Infinite Playlist.

Leo Laporte It was.

Brian Brushwood Ah…..

Leo Laporte The two billionth disk was delivered to Clay Shannon, a Netflix subscriber in Birmingham, Alabama, from the company’s distribution –

Sarah Lane Hello Clay, I’m sure he is watching.

Leo Laporte Hi Clay. Of course he is.

Brian Brushwood Can is just say, who cares? I mean…

Leo Laporte I’ll tell you why you care. You care because he just got free lifetime Netflix.

Brian Brushwood Okay, well, I mean good for him, congratulations. But it’s like, I mean, aren’t we all on digital distribution now? Isn’t that like saying who got the 100 millionth magazine the other day?

Leo Laporte It kind of it, isn’t it? It’s kind of over, isn’t it? How do you – do you read Netflix? Do you do Netflix?

Brian Brushwood You know, what’s funny is that I signed up for Netflix, because they are a sponsor of Scam School, using the Scam School code.

Leo Laporte What is that code? Go ahead, give it out.

Brian Brushwood I don’t remember. I think it’s

Leo Laporte Roger do you know, you work for that company?

Roger Chang You can do /tekzilla

Brian Brushwood It’s spelled t-e-k-z-i-l-l-a.

Leo Laporte No, no that’s not right.

Brian Brushwood But what’s funny is I signed up for and I have watched over the last year, exactly one disk, one physical disk. Everything else has been their digital distribution which I love. It’s like I sat there whole day watching nothing but weird documentaries, King Corn, Who Killed the Electric Car, A Fistful of Quarters, The King of Kong.

Roger Chang Well, it’s from –

Sarah Lane I still use Netflix for DVDs

Roger Chang I still – I do both. But there’s a still of disks that are not available – they are on-demand.

Brian Brushwood But if they were available on on demand, you wouldn’t ever want the disk.

Roger Chang But you also notice that they swap out titles from the on-demand. So it’s rotating, so it’s not always on the –

Leo Laporte You know about FeedFlix. Have you seen FeedFlix?

Brian Brushwood No.

Leo Laporte Oh god, you got to see this. It’s actually really depressing, go to

Roger Chang Oh, yes, yes, yes…

Sarah Lane All right, I’ll go.

Leo Laporte And you connect to your Netflix – well actually if you all go, we’re in trouble. You’re gonna all…

Brian Brushwood Yeah – too late. It has been spoken.

Sarah Lane Well let’s have four of us.

Leo Laporte Don’t – everybody don’t – oh damn! You killed it. Dibbity dang it!

Brian Brushwood You’ve gotta love wielding that kind of uncontrollable power.

Sarah Lane I’m on.

Leo Laporte I can’t get on.

Sarah Lane You’re on.

Leo Laporte I can’t get on. I’m on the page that I went to before. So, anyway FeedFlix, what you do is you connect to your Netflix account and then it tells you how much per movie you’re paying. So, I did it.

Sarah Lane Based on your –

Leo Laporte Based on how often you return it, right.

Sarah Lane Yes. Right.

Leo Laporte So, I did it. $92 a movie.

Roger Chang Holy cow!

Sarah Lane That’s ridiculous. What’s the matter with you people? How hard is it?

Leo Laporte I don’t return it enough.

Roger Chang Do you know what it is?

Sarah Lane There’s no postage required! You’ve got no excuse.

Roger Chang It’s like – to me it’s like –

Sarah Lane You have a DVD player.

Roger Chang Yes.

Sarah Lane Use it.

Roger Chang The thing is some of the –

Sarah Lane I don’t get it. Why is it so hard?

Roger Chang Some of the on-demand stuff, though, the quality – they took a lot of stuff from Starz and their encoding kind of sucks.

Leo Laporte Oh really, is that how they got it, is that they got it from Starz?

Roger Chang They – not all of it. Some of it.

Leo Laporte Oh that’s interesting.

Brian Brushwood Some of it – when you start them up on the – you’re talking about the digital distribution, right?

Roger Chang Yes, that’s right.

Brian Brushwood It starts of with the Starz movie. My daughter watches the Underdog Movie a hundred times over and over and over again. With the digital it’s cool because we do it on the Xbox. She goes up and she hits go and there’s Underdog.

Roger Chang My other issue is I actually have a surround sound setup. So, I enjoy surround sound. You don’t get that with the direct. So, unless – until – unless I get –

Leo Laporte Now that’s interesting. Do you think that your – that’s a common situation or..?

Roger Chang Maybe, for people who’ve invested money in their home theatres –

Leo Laporte It’s not going to look good enough for you, anyway. You’re going to want to see – well now, here’s the thing, actually, the issue that I wanted to bring up was, I just got an email from Netflix. They say, by the way, you want Blu-ray Discs?

Roger Chang You have to pay more.

Brian Brushwood Yes.

Leo Laporte Six bucks extra a month. What the hell? First it was one buck. I want to cancel.

Roger Chang I think there’s not enough Blu-ray people. I honestly believe that.

Leo Laporte What’s the deal with – no that’s greed.

Sarah Lane Okay, I think for the most part people just don’t care.

Roger Chang I think the thing is there’s not enough subscribers for the Blu-ray Discs to make carrying a parallel inventory worthwhile without charging five bucks more.

Leo Laporte That’s why they charge more?

Brian Brushwood I’m certain, yeah. Yeah, when you’re moving physical stuff it’s ridiculous, everything gets super expensive.

Brian Brushwood But if you have to carry two of the same movie –

Leo Laporte But that’s their business model. What are you talking about? That’s their business model. You have to move physical stuff.

Roger Chang Yeah, but if you have to carry inventory you can’t – say you have a hundred of the same movie. Now, you got to carry 25 of the Blu-ray, you got to make sure the Blu-ray –

Leo Laporte So you’re saying it’s because nobody is doing Blu-ray that they are going to charge me five buck more a month?!

Roger Chang I think there’s not enough. Honestly –

Brian Brushwood But I think, also like Netflix –

Leo Laporte Well I’m cancelling. There’s not going to – there’s going to be one fewer.

Roger Chang The only other thing I think of is that they are not getting a deal on getting Blu-ray discs.

Leo Laporte That’s one of the one of the deals with Netflix, isn’t it? That they have – that Hollywood subsidises the cost of the disc.

Roger Chang For the DVDs, but the Blu-ray could be a totally different – the Blu-ray.

Leo Laporte So starting April twenty –

Roger Chang We’re old now.

Leo Laporte “The internet!”

Brian Brushwood I’m going to use ‘The’ Netflix.

Leo Laporte Are you using ‘The Google’? I used ‘The Netflix’ to get my movies! Sorry about that Roger. Roger’s –

Brian Brushwood [27:27] It seems to me like Netflix has known since day one that the moving physical inventory days were numbered. And I think it’s brilliant the way they got started with the watch it now and I love what they’re doing for it. But I – it kind of makes me sad that they are even celebrating, you know Blu-ray. I don’t know.

Leo Laporte I love Blu-ray and I want Blu-ray. I have a Sony PlayStation 3 and that’s a perfect Blu-ray player. And what I’ve done on Netflix when it HTDVD, I said ‘okay I prefer HTDVD now it’s Blu-ray’ and now they are charging these six – I mean six bucks a month is lot. I mean what is the Netflix, is 20 bucks, I mean that’s a 50%, or a 30% increase.

Brian Brushwood I think it’s, I mean again –

Sarah Lane Six bucks a month. I mean, no, it’s not a lot of money, but it’s too much for that. It’s too much for that.

Leo Laporte What it does is make me say ‘okay I’m just going to get DVD. I don’t care about the Blu-ray.’ Right.

Sarah Lane Right.

Leo Laporte But that’s exactly not what they want to do, because –

Roger Chang Well it’s not what the Blu-ray consortium wants to happen. But for Netflix I mean, it doesn’t matter one way or – they’re going to charge you for something.

Brian Brushwood I just have this picture of Sony – Sony for once, ever, actually winning a format war and they’re just standing alone in the arena and nobody’s in the stands

Leo Laporte Yeah, nobody cares. “We won! We won!”

Brian Brushwood And they’re like “We won!” Nobody’s there watching.

Roger Chang I mean the problem is, like the Blu-ray players are still pricey, relatively speaking to DVDs. The Blu-ray discs are title for title are still more expensive. It’s just, why would people want to upgrade? I mean most people – majority of people, I still think, might have a regular TV. They don’t have any...

Leo Laporte I think – I think…

Sarah Lane There are a lot of those – and then there are folks like me who just simply – I know it looks better. If I – if it was…

Leo Laporte You don’t care though. Right.

Sarah Lane If it was given to me I’d be glad and I would watch and say, oh, yeah…

Leo Laporte But you don’t care.

Sarah Lane …that looks better. But I don’t care enough to pay extra.

Roger Chang And the bigger issue though is especially with a lot of people, they tend to watch movies not at home. They tend to watch it on the go on a Laptop. They tend to watch –

Brian Brushwood And then what’s the point of Blu-ray for that?

Roger Chang Yeah, if you’re not going to – if you can’t – unless you have a Blu-ray drive, you’re kind of – you’re SOL, right. So you get the one you can, you drop it in while you’re on a flight from New York to San Francisco –

Brian Brushwood Right, what is that six bucks as a percentage of the entire cost – of the regular cost of Netflix? We’ll say –

Leo Laporte It’s like 33%.

Brian Brushwood Okay, are Blu-ray movies when you’re watching them on your laptop –

Leo Laporte One third better? No.

Brian Brushwood Yeah, is it 33% better, yeah?

Leo Laporte So is this the end of the line for Blu-ray? Is this like kind of like the nail on the coffin that puts them out of business?

Roger Chang No, I think it’ll probably – it’ll still survive. But I think it will be one of…

Leo Laporte it’s an audio – it’s a video file format now.

Roger Chang Yeah, it’s gonna be like –

Brian Brushwood Yeah, I think –

Leo Laporte It’s like SACD.

Roger Chang Or laser disc. It’s gonna be one of those things where…

Brian Brushwood I think it will survive among video files, I think among the people who – for whom that it’s really important to get a cinematic experience. And they will be happy to pay that ridiculous premium.

Roger Chang You know what, it’d be funny if they start shipping those out to movie theatres. Like here’s your movie that you’re going to play, instead of –

Leo Laporte They practically are. So what is – when you go to a like a digital movie theatre and they’re doing –

Brian Brushwood Yeah the 4K ones.

Roger Chang Yeah.

Leo Laporte Well, not 4K.

Roger Chang No, just the –

Leo Laporte When you’re going to like the regular DLP cinema, which we have here in Petaluma, that’s probably not. That’s 1080p I bet, right?

Brian Brushwood Really?

Roger Chang So, I wouldn’t – you know and the thing is, you sit…

Leo Laporte That’s 2K.

Roger Chang …if you sit close enough you can see the aliasing. So, it’s not –

Brian Brushwood Alamo Drafthouse.

Leo Laporte How close do you have to sit?

Sarah Lane How close? Front row?

Roger Chang Usually like, yeah like either the first row of the middle aisle or like in the –

Leo Laporte So that’s where we’ll find Roger Chang we go to the movies and –

Roger Chang No, I usually sit in the back, because I can’t stand sitting too close.

Sarah Lane Oh, me either.

Roger Chang I can’t say – I don’t understand why they make seats like that.

Leo Laporte I love them. I know why…

Sarah Lane Because, so they can sell more.

Leo Laporte They make them for people like me who show up late

Sarah Lane I was in an IMAX movie, it was the Monsters versus Aliens the other night.

Leo Laporte How was that?

Sarah Lane It was pretty cute, pretty cute.

Brian Brushwood I loved it. It was good.

Roger Chang Was that like kid cute or adult cute?

Brian Brushwood No, it was adult

Sarah Lane It was adult. It wasn’t Pixar cute. You know what I mean?

Brian Brushwood No, they’re not quite there, but they’re way better than they used to be.

Leo Laporte So who did it, if not Pixar?

Sarah Lane It’s Dreamworks.

Brian Brushwood It’s Dreamworks.

Leo Laporte Oh yeah. Dreamworks is never quite Pixar, is it?

Sarah Lane Nothing is. I don’t know how to put my finger on it, but there’s something missing.

Brian Brushwood They’re getting close though. Kung Fu Panda was really good

Roger Chang Kung Fu Panda got panned by so many movie critics and I loved it

Brian Brushwood No I thought it was great.

Roger Chang It’s like, what are you..?

Brian Brushwood Wait, what are we – I think we’re officially off topic now, right?

Leo Laporte How come when – what’s weird to me, I understand Brian, why you’re seeing it. Why is Roger Chang, why is Sarah Lane, why are they going to see kid movies?

Roger Chang Because I like –

Sarah Lane Because they have adult, you know they have those adult jokes, where the adults go “hahaha…”

Roger Chang Yeah.

Brian Brushwood Well plus it’s like it’s 3D

Leo Laporte But they do that for parents who are forced to bring their toddlers.

Sarah Lane Right and the parents laugh way too loud and you go ‘oh that wasn’t that funny’ –

Roger Chang Because we’ve reached the age where we want our youth back, Leo. All right?

Leo Laporte Oh that’s it, oh yeah. Okay, you’re in your late twenties. I get it.

Roger Chang I’m not in my late twenties anymore!

Sarah Lane Well, I went because I had –

Leo Laporte Are you early thirties?

Roger Chang Yes.

Leo Laporte God, I feel so old, I feel so old. That means I must be in like my 70s now.

Sarah Lane Well, you’re 85.

Leo Laporte Oh my God, am I old?

Sarah Lane But you look great.

Roger Chang You know what, William Shatner is what, 81? William Shatner is seventy…

Brian Brushwood The truth is out.

Sarah Lane I’m glad you got your eyes done

Brian Brushwood He’s late seventies

Roger Chang He’s seventies and he’s still you know –

Leo Laporte Who’s that?

Roger Chang William Shatner

Brian Brushwood He’s mostly bionic now, by the way.

Leo Laporte He won a Streamy Award. Did you see that?

Brian Brushwood Yeah

Roger Chang Was he there?

Roger Chang Was he there?

Leo Laporte No.

Brian Brushwood He defeated my friend Brett Rounsaville, the amtrekker, he got defeated by…

Roger Chang Be funny if he used Priceline to get a hotel in –

Leo Laporte Did you go to the Streamies, Brian?

Brian Brushwood …Captain Kirk. No, I wanted to but I had a show in Michigan.

Leo Laporte That’s the kiss of death. Yeah, I really wanted to but I had a show in Michigan.

Sarah Lane Buy my point, I do have one, was that we went to the IMAX Theater, we got there late. We had to sit way up close. And although I liked the movie, It was too close. I was like kind of – and it was 3D, we had the 3D glasses…

Leo Laporte Yeah, hold on IMAX, IMAX –

Sarah Lane …and I was sort of sick the whole time.

Leo Laporte IMAX is the worst for that. You have to sit in the middle.

Sarah Lane You have to sit in the back.

Roger Chang In the middle, not to the left, not to the right.

Leo Laporte Right in the middle, there’s one good seat in the whole IMAX Theater.

Sarah Lane I’m fine sitting all the way in the back row. No problem. Some parts I didn’t –

Leo Laporte Did you have to – I went to see Superman Returns and the bad news on that in IMAX was that they put a little icon on the screen: “put the glasses on” and you put the glasses on, oh it’s 3D, it’s 3D: “take the glasses off”, okay take the glasses off now, it’s normal.

Sarah Lane Why?! During the movie?! Why was only part of the movie in 3D?

Roger Chang That’s is the main – I watched –

Leo Laporte It spoiled the movie because I’m busy thinking am I suppose to wear the glasses now?

Brian Brushwood I had the exact same experience with The Dark Knight. I saw The Dark Knight in IMAX and I wish I didn’t, because the IMAX things look great. But the moment – I’m like, ‘why is it suddenly so fuzzy..?’

Leo Laporte Half the time!

Brian Brushwood And I’m like, ‘oh because it’s not IMAX anymore’.

Leo Laporte I actually went back and saw it in a regular theatre, because I couldn’t follow the plot, I was too busy worrying about my glasses.

Sarah Lane Oh my God.

Brian Brushwood This week in IMAX.

Roger Chang I watched Coraline…

Sarah Lane I never –

Brian Brushwood …in 3D.

Leo Laporte Coraline would be probably good, right?

Roger Chang And it was great. From start to finish it’s all 3D.

Leo Laporte But it was all 3D, yes.

Roger Chang Yes and it was...

Sarah Lane Yeah, you need one or the other.

Roger Chang Yes.

Leo Laporte They can do that with the digital movies, the computer graphics movies, because that’s just automatic.

Sarah Lane Sure.

Leo Laporte But it’s a big deal, I would guess, to film a 3D real life action film, so they don’t do it for the whole movie. Because Christian Bale will scream at you.

Sarah Lane Yeah.

Roger Chang Well they sort of can –

Sarah Lane You’re an amateur!

Brian Brushwood You and I we’re done. Professionally we’re done.

Leo Laporte We’re done. I love that. We’re done. I’m never – you’re a nice guy. That’s the best part. You’re a nice guy. But we’re not – we’re done, professionally.

Roger Chang For 3D you just need to have two cameras like, what, less than a foot away from each other?

Leo Laporte But it’s expensive. Double the – you know it’s probably expensive.

Sarah Lane Oh yeah, because The Dark Knight folks certainly didn’t have that kind of a budget.

Roger Chang That movie was great though. I really.

Sarah Lane It was a great movie. I didn’t see it in IMAX.

Leo Laporte I didn’t like it as much as Batman Begins. That was –

Brian Brushwood I agree. Batman Begins was so much better. That much better.

Roger Chang Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait…why didn’t you like – I’m curious why didn’t you like it better than Batman Begins?

Leo Laporte Heath Ledger was good. But that’s all.

Brian Brushwood And I tell you what, Batman Begins pulled an awesome magic trick. It was like three quarters of the way movie through and all of sudden I realise wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, this is a comic book movie. How do they do that? How did I not realise the whole way long that this is a comic book movie? Dark Knight, from the very first scene I’m like, this is comic book movie. I mean nothing wrong with comic book movies, but I thought it was such an exemplary –

Leo Laporte It was all action.

Brian Brushwood Yeah.

Roger Chang I disagree, I think –

Brian Brushwood And realistic like if somebody really was going to be the Batman, he was going to be like he was in Batman Begins.

Sarah Lane I liked The Dark Knight better. A lot better.

Roger Chang I like Batman Begins.

Sarah Lane I liked it.

Roger Chang But I like The Dark Knight a lot better.

Sarah Lane Katie Holmes was kind of a stinker.

Roger Chang I don’t know.

Sarah Lane What other movies do we want to talk about? Who likes The Godfather?

Leo Laporte I’ve completely lost the thread of the conversation...

Roger Chang Back on track, now…

Brian Brushwood Okay, so anyway, Blu-ray is dead, who cares?

Leo Laporte Who cares? No I care because I spent a lot of money on watching Blu-ray and I’m a little disappointed –

Brian Brushwood Ah, save yourself the money.

Roger Chang Did you spend – did you buy a PS3 or did you buy a standalone Blu-ray player?

Leo Laporte I own two PS3s. One for here, one for home. See there’s one right there. But I like how crisp it looks on a nice screen. But I have to say it’s not worth six bucks a month – isn’t that weird? Because that’s chincy. It’s not worth six bucks a month?

Brian Brushwood Well, look it at this way, I mean, is it worth paying…

Leo Laporte I’m just annoyed I guess

Brian Brushwood …if you use the discs as much as you do, is it worth paying double every time for it?

Leo Laporte Yeah, no, well go to, enter in your credentials and you’ll see how much Netflix costs. Not only that, it tells you how you rank with the rest of it. Like I’m like 99%. Because I don’t return movies like, sometimes I’ll have a movie for six months.

Brian Brushwood I still have Michael Clayton. I’ve had that disc for six months now.

Leo Laporte That’s a good movie. You should watch it.

Brian Brushwood Well I ordered it, it’s there on my –

Leo Laporte Great performance from what’s his name?

Brian Brushwood That guy. George Clooney.

Leo Laporte That guy.

Roger Chang He’s great.

Leo Laporte Love him

Brian Brushwood George Clooney.

Leo Laporte Isn’t he great?

Brian Brushwood Yeah. He is.

Leo Laporte Even guys like George Clooney.

Brian Brushwood Yeah.

Sarah Lane Everyone has a crush on George Clooney. Men, women.

Leo Laporte Even guys. Let’s not go bromance again that really hurt my reputation on the net at night.

Sarah Lane Oh, I’m sorry, Leo. The brodeo? Yeah

Leo Laporte Yeah, wasn’t good. What you laughing at Roger?

Brian Brushwood The brodeo?

Roger Chang The brodeo – yeah.

Sarah Lane It’s just a funny word. I say it when I can.

Roger Chang It is. It’s a ridiculous term.

Leo Laporte [36:37] So you watch Hulu, Roger. Let’s talk about Hulu. Hulu – this is so pathetic. Hulu is trying to eliminate piracy, I guess. The problem with Hulu is that they’ve been – Boxee will rebroadcast Hulu, they want you to go to the webpage, right?

Roger Change Right. Yeah.

Leo Laporte Even though the ads are still there, I don’t know why, for some reason they want you to go to the webpage. So they have taken steps to thwart non-traditional browsers, aka Boxee, by using JavaScript to encode HTML sent to the browser. It’s like you could figure out a work around in this in like three seconds. They did, in three seconds. But it’s interesting that they are really trying to keep people from doing the Boxee thing. They asked Boxee not to do it. It was hacked within minutes. Is Hulu misguided in trying to eliminate this?

Brian Brushwood I’ve got a theory about this by the way.

Roger Chang I mean, I am thinking it points to a bigger issue and that’s kind of the ad-supported model that a lot of these services basically base their entire structure on.

Leo Laporte Put the microphone right in front of you.

Roger Chang Oh, I am sorry. And whether or not it’s something that can continue the way it is, or do they have to actually insert their own…

Leo Laporte It’s not very many ads, I mean it’s just a couple of ads, it’s not too bad. I like Hulu; I watch a lot of – Coleen watches Hulu all the time.

Sarah Lane Uh-huh.

Leo Laporte I like watching it on Boxee; I don’t see what the problem is with me watching it on Boxee? What’s your theory Brian?

Brian Brushwood Hulu loves Boxee and they want to make it happen, but they are bowing to pressure by NBC and the old school team.

Leo Laporte That’s what they say, it’s the content couriers.

Brian Brushwood Providers that they are forcing them right?

Leo Laporte Yes, yes.

Brian Brushwood So meanwhile, Hulu is winning share every minute that everybody continues to go to Hulu, whether it’s on Boxee or whatever, they can support…

Leo Laporte They don’t care, they get eyeballs.

Sarah Lane Yes, yes.

Brian Brushwood So, they need to do some lip service to the powers that be, so they keep, they pay some people to come up with the weakest attempts to move forward and they’re like ‘hey!’

Leo Laporte Ah, lip service content protection.

Brian Brushwood ‘We’re doing, hey we’re trying to fight so hard.’

Leo Laporte That’s what Apple does. ‘Oh, you can never rip an iPod with its music.’ Like every idiot can do it, but it’s lip service content protection.

Brian Brushwood I think so, I think so, I think it is in Hulu’s best interest to continue to have Boxee plus Hulu will be the ultimate set-top box solution. And if they can drag their feet then all of a sudden a year from now, they will have X percent of the entire video watching market and they will be say –

Sarah Lane That’s what they want, they want a good percentage of the market.

Brian Brushwood Exactly, so then they can turn and say, hey, could we re-negotiate the way we’re doing this? Is this is a little bit ridiculous. I think this is all part of Hulu’s master plan.

Leo Laporte See, I think for an end-user this confuses. Because I think of Hulu as NBC Fox. But it’s not, right? You’re saying it’s different.

Brian Brushwood It’s not, it’s totally not.

Leo Laporte It’s like its own business?

Brian Brushwood Yes. They have worked very hard to establish licenses with all of these guys.

Leo Laporte Ah.

Brian Brushwood And this is a case where they are having the pinch put on them, and –

Sarah Lane I thought it was NBC Universal….

Leo Laporte That’s what I thought, that they started…

Sarah Lane …that created Hulu and that is was a division.

Brian Brushwood I could be totally wrong, I am an idiot who get’s paid to stick nails in his eyes, but I thought I remembered a Wired article saying about the guy who started Hulu and about how hard he worked to establish all these partnerships.

Leo Laporte No, that makes sense. It’s always complicated with these relationships to know who’s what.

Sarah Lane Right.

Leo Laporte They probably put money into it. But at the same time...

Brian Brushwood Now it could have been an initial investor and then turned around and tried to establish control…

Leo Laporte Yes.

Brian Brushwood …but I though Hulu was its own animal.

Leo Laporte Well, they are being very clear when they say ‘oh, it’s the content creators that are making us do this.’ I mean it’s clear that they don’t want to, they don’t want to –

Brian Brushwood Yes, Hulu has been pretty straight up that there’s a disagreement.

Leo Laporte Interesting. We are going to take a break. Come back with more in just a bit, somebody sent me a – or maybe it was in the chat room’s, or it was on a forum, but they said ‘you don’t to tease us through the commercials.’

Brian Brushwood We don’t watch them.

Leo Laporte We’ll listen. You don’t need to tease us, but coming up in just a bit, is gutted, gutted. And some of my favourite people laid off at The Chronicle, I am very sad about that. This is a bad – the usual depressing media round up lay-offs before we – I shouldn’t do that right now. Before we do that –

Sarah Lane Before that…

Leo Laporte …here is a fine commercial…

Sarah Lane …from our sponsor.

Leo Laporte We’re making money, the new media is doing fine, thanks to people like Citrix. It’s really interesting how some advertisers are perfectly happy going no, no problem, we’ll go to new media. And I hate to be kind of the agent of change, but times are changing. Citrix is a really good example, Citrix does GoToMeeting, GoToMyPC. They are a great company. I have known them for years. I remember hanging out at Comdex, that shows you how long I have known them, with the founder Ed Iacobucci. I mean, this has always been a great company, they do the best remote access stuff with GoToMyPC.

And GoToMeeting is their meeting software; a new and better way to meet with clients and colleagues. The old way is you get on the phone, but the phone meaning there is always a guy on his BlackBerry answering emails, he’s going ‘what, yes, uh-huh, did you say something?’ Or you meet in person, which means you have got to travel across the country, or you drive across town, it’s expensive, it takes a lot of time.

The new way to meet, the way to do it, GoToMeeting, it’s like meeting in person, but it’s less time consuming, it’s less expensive, and – and this is to me the big deal, it’s just more productive, it’s more engaging, it’s more fun for everybody including your clients. If you haven’t tried GoToMeeting, I want you to try it. We do it all the time, we actually do it on some of our shows, we use GoToMeeting so that, like Ray Maxwell can show you screens in Maxwell's House. It’s very simple, he sets it up ahead of time, so he sends an email, clicks a link and then I get an email saying: “join this GoToMeeting at 2 O’clock on Wednesday”

But you can also do it when you’re on your phone, by the way, built in free teleconferencing and Voice over IP, so it’s very easy to use, you can already set up the conference at GoToMeeting and say, look, I want to show you the PowerPoint, I want to show you these drawings, I want to show you the website, you go to, here is the meeting ID. Suddenly your client or your colleague, whoever you’re doing this meeting with, sees your screen on their computer, real time, just like they are there. They can follow along with you as you move among pages or applications for sales presentations, product demos. You can do it for training, for collaboration.

I want you to try it free for 30 days, here’s how: you go to 30 days absolutely free, it’ll give you a really good idea of what you can do with this. But I do warn you, you’re going to try it and you’re going to get hooked, it’s that good, we use it now. I have so many GoToMeeting accounts. We use it in so many different ways, we just used a GoToMeeting meeting with Telos to talk about our new mixer system. It’s just really, for technical stuff, it’s really great. We thank them so much for their support.

So now the bad news kids.

Sarah Lane What?

Leo Laporte [43:25] Condé Nast laid-off a bunch of people – now I think, according to Valleywag, an esteemed source…

Sarah Lane Oh, they are never wrong.

Leo Laporte …an esteemed source, even the Leander Kahney got laid-off, which is really sad. It sounds like the print magazine is trying to save itself by killing the digital side, which is, I think the wrong way to go.

Sarah Lane Really, really bizarre and backward.

Brian Brushwood All right, well my question is, how is the digital side doing? Is as a digital entity –

Leo Laporte Well, it never does well, but that’s all we’ve got, right?

Brian Brushwood Right, well,

Leo Laporte I mean, what’s the future of a Print magazine?

Sarah Lane Although I think that Wired, I am one of the few people, I don’t...

Leo Laporte Do you subscribe?

Sarah Lane …I don’t subscribe to The Print magazine.

Brian Brushwood I do, I love it. It’s my favourite magazine.

Sarah Lane See, that’s what I am talking about.

Roger Chang It used to be.

Sarah Lane I happen, I read, but I don’t subscribe. But people love Wired, The Magazine, they really do. You know you’re like, you get it in the mail.

Leo Laporte I love that low contrast print.

Sarah Lane You love the way it looks, you love the way it’s laid out

Brian Brushwood It’s the white on silver.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Sarah Lane And I think that they are trying to sort of go with that, that they are sort of, there’s love that people have for the Print magazine. They know that they can get it online, they don’t want that, they want the magazine.

Leo Laporte That’s interesting.

Brian Brushwood And I bet what happens is they sit down and they‘re like look, we’ve got to pick a side, we’re trying to be winners at two different games, we can’t play two games simultaneously. How are we doing in online? We’re X number place, how we’re doing in print? We’re this number place. And my guess is they say what we need to do is we need to specialize, we need to focus like a laser, and be just one or the other.

Leo Laporte Do you really think that’s the future though? I mean, in the long run of a magazine?

Brian Brushwood In the long run, no. But what happens is, magazines, there‘s still, I think, always going to be a place for magazines. Because you get a depth of story in a magazine that you can’t get in a daily website type scenario. Some of the best stories on are more the in-depth, like did you read about the Diamond Heist story?

Sarah Lane Yes. That was a good one.

Brian Brushwood It was phenomenal, and that was, that’s classic monthly print media journalism right there, and so I think, I think, it may be the right call, I don’t know.

Sarah Lane It’s a tough one.

Roger Chang I don’t know, maybe they just weren’t pulling enough revenue, maybe they were hoping that the website could be self-sufficient and they wouldn’t have to keep funneling off money from the print side, in order to keep it sustainable.

Sarah Lane Yes, I mean, obviously, in a perfect world everybody wants both. If you’re getting to the point where you’ve got to cut, and you’re Wired…

Roger Chang But, I mean, you know…

Leo Laporte But you don’t have that luxury really, do you?

Roger Chang I think they – in the long run they might have made the more solid choice by leveraging –

Leo Laporte Really, you think so?

Roger Chang I mean for the, I mean, if you’re looking down three years, and whether or not you’re going to be solvent in three years, you’re going to want to go with the solution that brings in cash.

Brian Brushwood Yes, imagine you had two futures, one where there is only and one where there is only Wired, the magazine. Three years from now, if you’re going to place a bet, where are you going to place your bet that, which one of those will definitely be alive three years from now. And I can’t say that would be my first choice.

Sarah Lane Uh-huh. Oh, and –

Leo Laporte As opposed to Wired, the magazine?

Brian Brushwood The magazine, I think that Wired, the magazine will be around three years from now.

Leo Laporte Well, because that would be very contrary to the rest of the world, where, I mean, print and cost of printing these things, I mean that’s all going away.

Brian Brushwood Well, I don’t know, I think it’s a different branch on the tree of what people want. I think there will never be a time that people, I shouldn’t say that, when we all have our own portable Kindles and we’re downloading stuff all the time, but I think, for right now, I get excited about plane flights when I know I have a new Wired Magazine in my book-bag.

Sarah Lane Two people in the chat room said the same thing, just now. People love to have that physical –

Leo Laporte And Wired just launched –

Sarah Lane I think that they probably think that –

Brian Brushwood It will become niche, it will become, it’s a small amount –

Leo Laporte I am not saying that people don’t love it. People love newspapers, but they’re going out of business. I mean, it’s not that – it’s not an issue of whether people love it, it’s whether there is a financially viable model.

Sarah Lane Sure, yes, right.

Leo Laporte Right?

Sarah Lane I think probably, if I were Wired, if there was something that you could cut and then build back up, if it made sense later on, the online division is it.

Roger Chang But, yes, they are not killing the entire online entity are they?

Sarah Lane No, but...

Leo Laporte No, but as you start laying-off these people, it becomes harder and harder.

Sarah Lane It’s bad, it’s bad.

Roger Chang You know what, I think they are just keeping operations where they are sustainable, and then they are going to build up their cash reserves –

Leo Laporte They are trying to build their runway is what you are saying, they are going to try to survive.

Roger Chang If you’re going to survive, you just can’t place your bets –

Leo Laporte I hope that’s the case.

Roger Chang I think it’s something that they are going to do in order to hunker down, and weather the recession.

Leo Laporte Right.

Roger Chang And then when times are good, they are going to start expanding again. But you just, you can’t – I don’t think that they have the luxury of spending more money than they can afford.

Leo Laporte No, no, no, nobody does, I mean, look at The San Francisco Chronicle. I mean, I am crushed. Joel Selvin, some of my favorite writers from The Chronicle have been laid-off, this is a company that is losing $1 million a week, so they want to keep –

Sarah Lane It’s so heartbreaking, and yet I read SFGate, which is their online division.

Leo Laporte Right.

Sarah Lane That’s how I read my Chronicle during the week. Sometimes I get it on the weekend, but that’s how I have been reading it for the last two years.

Leo Laporte It kills me, just kills me. I mean, I just…

Sarah Lane So it’s like I am heartbroken and yet I am part of the problem.

Leo Laporte You’re part of the problem.

Sarah Lane Yes.

Leo Laporte And you know what? I don’t subscribe to The Chronicle, you’re right, I don’t get the print version.

Sarah Lane I get it on Saturday if I have got time and I want to sit down and read.

Roger Chang But see, that’s an interesting, I think that goes back to what Brian said. I mean, in the model, a daily publication against a web model, I think that the web would win out, because it’s every day.

Brian Brushwood Right.

Leo Laporte How about this, Ars Technica, 17 people laid-off, including David Chartier, who was a great writer, I mean that’s a big loss as well. Where do – here’s my question, now all of a sudden, you’ve got all these people laid-off, you have got these mainstream print guys gone and gals, you’ve got now these online people gone, where are they going to find jobs?

Sarah Lane Right.

Leo Laporte I mean, are they going to be working at Denny’s, are they going to be building their flare collection at Applebee’s?

Sarah Lane I think there will be a lot more personal blogging, that’s a whole another thing –

Leo Laporte And can that support a person? Can a human being make a living –

Roger Chang No.

Sarah Lane I, believe me, I have tried, I don’t think you can.

Roger Chang You can’t! I think it’s one of those things where you leverage the knowledge you have, and you either do something like immediate, like consulting, or you –

Leo Laporte Consulting, yes, there’s the end of the line. I am a consultant!

Roger Chang But, I mean, you know...

Sarah Lane Who wants – who is hiring the consultants?

Roger Chang Hey, you know my dad was a structural engineer for like eight years before he got laid off. And when he got laid off he went into real estate, three years in real estate, he bought a restaurant and ran a restaurant for 25 years.

Leo Laporte Now he’s a seafood guy.

Roger Chang Yeah. So it’s not unheard of to –

Leo Laporte No. It’s the future, isn’t it? Nobody’s going to hold a job.

Roger Chang You have to be flexible and it’s –

Brian Brushwood But that’s already kind of come to pass. In the industrial age you had a job, you worked forty years, you traded…

Leo Laporte For life. You got the gold watch.

Brian Brushwood ...and then you got the pension and you were done.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Brian Brushwood But nowadays, I mean, who works a job for 40 years? You do five years one place and then you either jump ship or get laid off.

Sarah Lane Five years is a long time.

Brian Brushwood Nowadays, yeah, it’s forever.

Roger Chang I mean, you know, you look at even broadcast. I mean, I’ve talked to a lot of the shooters who like, you know now they’ve –

Leo Laporte Oh, they are all out of work aren’t they?

Roger Chang They are not just – the ones that are still around, they’ve picked up editing…

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Roger Chang ...they’ve done a lot of audio. They’ve picked up new skills in order to able to offer a client an entire turnkey solution instead of …

Sarah Lane The preditor.

Roger Chang The what?

Sarah Lane The preditor.

Roger Chang The preditor?

Leo Laporte What’s that?

Sarah Lane It’s now the – it’s the producer, shooter, editor.

Leo Laporte Oh, P – R – oh wow. I hate that idea.

Roger Chang Wow.

Sarah Lane So, I’m everything! But it’s also eliminating jobs.

Leo Laporte As I sit here switching cameras recording, I do it all.

Sarah Lane Doing all, yeah.

Leo Laporte There’s no camera operator, there’s no tape operator.

Sarah Lane You are a preditor in the –

Leo Laporte I am the worst kind of preditor!

Brian Brushwood There’s no Leo, there’s just a distortion field where he’s hiding there.

Leo Laporte That’s right, I am not even here, I am down drinking wine at Gary's Wine.

Brian Brushwood

That’s right.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Wow, that’s – but that, in a way that is what we are doing here because I couldn’t afford to do what Revision3 is doing, or let alone what KRON is doing, what Channel 4 is doing. I had to do something really cheap. So we have locked down cameras, I am running the whole thing but it –

Sarah Lane And it works.

Leo Laporte

It works.

Sarah Lane It works really well for you but think about...

Leo Laporte Is it going to work for everybody?

Sarah Lane …think about 10 years ago to put this together, there’d be a lot more jobs…

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Sarah Lane In this cottage.

Brian Brushwood Well, and there’s also –

Leo Laporte Oh yeah.

Sarah Lane Yeah.

Brian Brushwood There’s also –

Leo Laporte But there isn’t the revenue to support all those jobs.

Sarah Lane Exactly.

Brian Brushwood But the audience has changed now too, to where it’s not a detriment to know that you are the one changing the cameras and doing the processing and the hands on stuff.

Roger Chang Yeah. The expectations have shifted, especially with online; people are so used to watching really shaky YouTube cameras and like people doing podcasts from their bedroom with a big white wall behind them.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Roger Chang A yellow screen reflecting off their visors.

Leo Laporte Is that going to work? I mean –

Roger Chang But I think people will try things, see what works, and go with that. Things that don’t work will automatically just kind of bust out by themselves.

I don’t know, we’re going through a tremendous change period, not just because of technology but because of economic concerns.

Leo Laporte It’s a complete inflection point, everything has changed.

Roger Chang I mean, if you imagine the shift to the industrial revolution for people…

Leo Laporte Right.

Roger Chang …who did nothing but work on the farm from sunup till sundown; now you have to be somewhere from these specified hours, you have to work for five hours and then maybe you can get a lunch for 30 minutes and then you got to finish out the rest of your day working in this line, pounding the same –

Leo Laporte Well, you guys are dealing with this. I mean, you have been kind of in this transition, Sarah and Roger, I mean, you were in mainstream media and now you are new media.

Sarah Lane Roger and I were in college together. We majored in broadcasting.

Leo Laporte Oh that’s at San Francisco state?

Roger Chang We had the same class, yeah.

Sarah Lane Yeah, 1998. Graduated and thought we were going to be broadcasters.

Leo Laporte So, when they taught you in ‘98, what did they – did they think that the world was going to continue as is, I mean –

Roger Chang No. Oh, definitely not.

Leo Laporte They knew at even in ’98 it was obvious.

Sarah Lane They knew. I mean, the tools were for – we took a desktop video class.

Roger Chang Yeah.

Sarah Lane It was – what was it?

Roger Chang C.J. Grant’s desktop video editor.

Leo Laporte But that’s an interesting question, can you teach somebody?

Sarah Lane It was a Adobe Premier.

Roger Chang It was Adobe Premier 4 –

Sarah Lane And that was –

Roger Chang On a Mac – Power Mac.

Sarah Lane That was all we had access to. And it was like, woah, this is a pretty cutting edge kind of a thing, this is the future. They knew it was the future, certainly, but it wasn’t when we got out of school and got jobs.

Leo Laporte I was going to say, was what they taught you useful?

Roger Chang Oh, yeah.

Sarah Lane Yes, for sure.

Roger Chang Definitely. I took a web class.

Sarah Lane We were ahead of the curve taking that at school.

Roger Chang I took – they were offering HTML scripting courses. They were telling that you could take a web course, learn how to build a website.

Leo Laporte Seems like that stuff changes so fast that what would have learnt though isn’t, I mean, how many people use HTML anymore?

Roger Chang No, no, it’s not – it’s – but see, that the thing is it’s not just the detailed stuff that you learn, you understand –

Leo Laporte It’s the concepts.

Roger Chang It’s the concepts, it’s understanding how things can work together and…

Sarah Lane Right.

Roger Chang ...ultimately it’s not – you don’t necessarily need to know how to code three different languages, Perl, PHP or C all at the same time. But you do know what you – what each of those languages can provide and why you would want it to support –

Leo Laporte See, I am kind of thinking about this myself, I have actually have been asked to talk to my daughter’s high school about what they should be teaching to kids, 15, 16, 17 year old kids now. And one of the things I wonder is, is there anything you could teach them from a technological point of view that will make any difference in eight years. It’s going to – don’t we know it’s going to be completely different?

Sarah Lane I think that there is value to them knowing what’s going on now so that they can understand when it changes, how it’s changed.

Leo Laporte Oh that’s interesting.

Roger Chang Well, it’s –

Leo Laporte I mean, all you can teach is what –

Sarah Lane Because, I mean, your only alternative is just to not teach them anything.

Leo Laporte Well, I was thinking maybe you’d teach them things that you know aren’t going to change like ethics, like critical thinking, kind of – how to write, things like that.

Roger Chang You want to focus on the concepts and the principles because camera technology has changed a lot since I left State but the principles about shooting, how things are shot –

Leo Laporte Yes, you are right.

Sarah Lane All the same.

Leo Laporte Some things don’t change.

Sarah Lane It’s all the same.

Leo Laporte Three point lighting. Yeah, that’ true.

Roger Chang Things – why things look good, why things don’t look good.

Leo Laporte Right.

Roger Chang [54:50] And you know it’s one of the things I think they should really bring back and I don’t think they – people kind of laugh at me when I say this is – they need to bring back home ec. I think people –

Leo Laporte People don’t know how to cook anymore.

Roger Chang People don’t know how to cook.

Brian Brushwood Ah, who needs to cook?

Roger Chang People don’t know how to manage their own...

Brian Brushwood Pre-packaged meals...

Sarah Lane I never took home ec and believe me everyone I’ve dated has suffered.

Leo Laporte Can you sew?

Sarah Lane No!

Leo Laporte Can you – do you darn your socks, Roger?

Sarah Lane I can’t even sew a button.

Roger Chang I mean, I can sew – see that’s the thing, I can sew a button but it’s things like being able to balance your own budget.

Leo Laporte Balancing your check book would be nice.

Brian Brushwood The economic side of home ec.

Roger Chang I have met four-year graduates who still cannot get their heads around, like, balancing their –

Leo Laporte See that’s pretty pathetic. You need to be able to balance your check book.

Roger Chang But that’s the thing, it’s not instilled in people.

Sarah Lane But in what class does anyone ever teach you, sort of, the basics of life?

Leo Laporte Or they teach you how to make enough money so you can hire, as I have, to hire somebody to do that.

Roger Chang Or even – no, but even understanding the basics of business, being an entrepreneur you need to know…

Leo Laporte I have people to do that.

Roger Chang …how you make money.

Brian Brushwood Well, and I think that’s the thing is we’ve entered the age where everybody needs to think of themselves as an entrepreneur even if you work for a major company…

Leo Laporte That’s what I think.

Brian Brushwood …you need to think of yourselves as a personal services corporation with a staff of exactly one.

Leo Laporte Bingo.

Brian Brushwood Yeah.

Leo Laporte That’s actually as I have been thinking about that, that’s exactly what I was going to tell the school is teach people entrepreneurship. It’s not like you are going to start your own business but that’s how you –

Sarah Lane Self sufficiency is…

Leo Laporte Very good.

Roger Chang Yeah.

Sarah Lane There’s nothing more important than that.

Roger Chang Being able to cook for yourself, being able to manage your own finances. I mean, people think 10 years ago, 20 years ago people, well that’s kind of a given, but there’s lots of people who really don’t understand that. They don’t understand why they don’t have any money at the end of the month when they are like blowing $50 on drinks every night. It’s just like –

Brian Brushwood Speaking of working for somebody else –

Sarah Lane Or why the credit card’s gotten out of control.

Roger Chang Exactly.

Sarah Lane I mean, you think of – after all this time, credit card debts, you think well we all know better, right? It’s a huge, huge problem. Gets away from everybody.

Leo Laporte Well, now it’s not a problem because it’s over. No, no you’re not getting another credit card. What were you saying, Brian?

Brian Brushwood Oh I was just saying thinking of employee productivity and taking responsibility for yourself, that reminds me of another story…

Leo Laporte Yes.

Brian Brushwood …about employee productivity…

Leo Laporte Yes.

Brian Brushwood …involving Facebook and YouTube.

Leo Laporte [57:01] Oh I saw – it’s funny that you should say that. Go ahead, tell us about it.

Brian Brushwood Oh, well just that there’s a study that says –

Leo Laporte Look at it, you’ve become the Dvorak of this show. I think that’s great, Brian.

Brian Brushwood I am here with a mission.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Keep us on track.

Sarah Lane You know Brian, we talked about this on TWiF on Friday, I guess you weren’t watching.

Brian Brushwood Oh, did you? I’m sorry I missed it.

Sarah Lane But do go on, it’s fine, it’s fine.

Leo Laporte I missed that as well and I was in the room.

Brian Brushwood Well, then you’re uniquely qualified to comment on it. We – the study says that Facebook and YouTube at work make people better employees.

Sarah Lane Yes.

Brian Brushwood What’s the story there?

Leo Laporte How could that possibly be?

Sarah Lane The whole idea is that it’s very – this is not a new concept, the concept is employees need breaks. They need to mentally get away from their work.

Leo Laporte I need a break right now.

Roger Chang From all this wine.

Leo Laporte Let me have some more wine.

Sarah Lane This is hard. I need a break.

Leo Laporte This is hard work.

Sarah Lane But you know the point is that people, productivity will go down if people are worked to death. And so Facebook is an escape, it’s a chance to hang with friends in a virtual sense. YouTube is a place to watch a video…

Roger Chang Watch people get hit between their legs.

Sarah Lane ... of a dog running around in circles. Yeah, or people getting – haha –

Leo Laporte So, you are just saying they need a better break room and that –

Sarah Lane Basically the study is, is that people, they get something out of taking breaks. And they are choosing to take breaks online sitting at their desk rather than getting up and walking outside.

Leo Laporte Can we ask them to listen to podcasts and watch TWiT Live? I think that’s a good thing.

Sarah Lane I certainly would like – I would like that.

Leo Laporte This WEEK in FUN is an excellent break from –

Sarah Lane A 90-minute break for everyone.

Leo Laporte There you go. There you go.

Brian Brushwood Do you know what this made me think of the moment I the read this? Have you read…

Leo Laporte Fire eating?

Brian Brushwood ...Dan Ariely’s book Predictably Irrational.

Leo Laporte Love that book!

Brian Brushwood Isn’t that a great book?

Leo Laporte Love that book.

Brian Brushwood One of the things he talks about in there is the difference between market norms and social norms. And he talks about the way, this seems like the other side of the coin, a lot businesses are asking people to take personal responsibility and apply social norms and saying, “hey, we’re a family here.” I understand that you are off work right now but if you could use your BlackBerry to check in on this one problem that we have, since we’re all family would you mind doing that? The flip side is, if you’re going to start using social norms to get people to work in their off hours, the flip side is you got to keep social norms during the nine to five times…

Leo Laporte Interesting.

Brian Brushwood

…and allow people to act as socially, people.

Roger Chang In other words you can’t just use it when they’re on their off hours and then turn off that kind of social dynamic when they’re in the office.

Leo Laporte Oh that’s interesting.

Brian Brushwood Exactly.

Roger Chang I actually agree with that because when you can build that bond I think people will automatically be more conscientious about things like, “oh I better send that to him.” I know I am on vacation but he really needs to know, I better send it out right away.

Brian Brushwood They are building credit in their personal bank. The more that you allow people to act like an adult while they’re in their cubicle, the more that you can expect them to act like an adult and be part of the family while they are off at the beach.

Roger Chang Instead of chattel.

Brian Brushwood Like chattel.

Sarah Lane Cattle.

Roger Chang Instead of, you know –

Leo Laporte I like it. You are my chattel.

Roger Chang Well, if you think about it, if you are in a position where you, okay, they are just looking at me as a worker bee, a drone, from nine to five then screw it; after I get off, I am going to – that’s my time. Whatever work has with me they can deal with that, I’ll deal with that tomorrow. So, I –

Leo Laporte There was another good thing in that book Predictably Irrational, where they asked, what was it, they asked doctors. First they were going to pay doctors to do something, right?

Brian Brushwood Yeah. No, it was lawyers.

Leo Laporte Lawyers, that’s right, yeah.

Brian Brushwood They said, “hey, the elderly need legal services, would you mind providing legal services for only $40 per session?” And all the lawyers were like, “are you kidding me?”

Leo Laporte “Screw you, 40 bucks? I don’t do that!”

Brian Brushwood Then they sent out the exact same set of lawyers, they are like, “listen elderly people need lawyers, would you mind doing it for free?”

Leo Laporte For free.

Brian Brushwood And they are like, “yes, of course we will.”

Leo Laporte Pro Bono.

Brian Brushwood We love the elderly.

Leo Laporte So, what was the rationale there?

Brian Brushwood The point is the moment you involve money, monetary interaction, all of a sudden we have different rules that we apply socially, like for example – and the example they gave is, if you sit down to Thanksgiving with your grandmother and at the end of the evening, you’re like that was really good. Can I give you something for this grandma, how about $40?

Leo Laporte Oh, that would be insulting. That would be so insulting.

Brian Brushwood Exactly, exactly. And so we have different sets of rules for social norms versus business norms, financial norms.

Leo Laporte So, it’s kind of, it’s along the same lines. There’s a actually a great book I want to recommend it as our audible book actually this week as it is on and that’s where I read it. I really loved it. Dan Arieli, Predictably Irrational: The Hidden Forces That Shape Our Decisions. You can get this for free by the way. I am going to set up, so you can get two books for free if you go to That’s where you sign up for the platinum plan that gives you two books a month which is what – that’s what I do because I need two books a month. You know, it’s funny, I don’t commute anymore but I listen at the gym.

Brian Brushwood You know I’m a crazy audio book nut.

Leo Laporte Do you like him?

Brian Brushwood Because not only do I drive because I’m doing these shows all over United States, so it’s like I’m...

Leo Laporte Perfect.

Brian Brushwood ... driving, and then I have to get through security and then I have to wait for my flight. And then I am on the flight, it’s like there is always time and I love doing two things at the same time. If I’m doing housework, I love just tuning into an audio book as I’m doing the dishes.

Leo Laporte Well, are you member of audible?

Brian Brushwood I am, I am.

Leo Laporte Oh good. I was going to say you should really join here.

Brian Brushwood In fact I wanted to plug my favourite audio book reader.

Leo Laporte What’s that?

Brian Brushwood Do you go by readers?

Leo Laporte I do, I do.

Brian Brushwood Will you read books just based on who reads it?

Leo Laporte You bet. Who’s your favourite reader?

Brian Brushwood A guy, he’s passed away recently but his name was Frank Muller.

Leo Laporte Oh yeah.

Brian Brushwood You knew exactly who I was talking about.

Leo Laporte As soon as you said he passed away.

Brian Brushwood He is phenomenal and in fact I was heartbroken when he got in that motorcycle accident and lost his ability to read and in fact they set up the Wavedancer Foundation. I will read anything that’s been read by Frank Muller which specifically that’s what got me into Stephen King’s The Dark Tower series, The Gunslinger, have you read those?

Leo Laporte Yes.

Brian Brushwood He’s phenomenal. In fact, Stephen King said that his voice are the voices in his head as he writes, the Dark Tower series.

Leo Laporte Let me play. This is from the Shawshank Redemption.

Brian Brushwood Oh it’s so good, so good.

Leo Laporte Yes, it really was.

Sarah Lane If you can trump Morgan Freeman, then I am on board.

Brian Brushwood He sounds like Morgan Freeman.

Leo Laporte He kind of does, listen. This is Frank Muller reading a little bit from the Shawshank Redemption.

Frank Muller ...thousands of other items for men doing time here, some of them perfectly legal yet hard to come by in a place where you've supposedly been brought to be punished. There was one fellow who was in for raping a little girl and exposing himself to dozens of others; I got him three pieces of pink Vermont marble.

Sarah Lane Nice moment in the book there.

Brian Brushwood Yes, that’s what I was about to say, good timing on the…

Leo Laporte I always pick the best clips.

Brian Brushwood Welcome to raping a little girl.

Leo Laporte He is doing kind of a character voice there but he is such a good reader.

Sarah Lane He’s got a great voice.

Brian Brushwood Yeah and a wide variety as well like in the Dark Tower series, you hear him. There are four primary characters, you hear him do a grizzled Clint Eastwood Gunslinger, you hear him do a 12-year-old boy – that didn’t sound right. You hear him –

Leo Laporte Don’t do a 12-year-old boy, that’s not right.

Brian Brushwood You hear him do a Southern black woman...

Sarah Lane La la, I can’t hear you.

Brian Brushwood And a kid from New York. It’s phenomenal.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Frank Muller. That’s what interesting about audible is that you do – It’s a performance. It’s not just somebody reading a book to you, it’s a performance. And Frank is one of the, was one of the great...

Sarah Lane Can I ask a maybe a stupid question?

Leo Laporte Yes.

Sarah Lane How does a man like Frank Muller become an...a book reader?

Leo Laporte He is an actor. Usually they are actors, they are actors first.

Sarah Lane And people recognize that he’s got a voice that would be great for an audio book?

Leo Laporte You know what, what it really is I think it’s a job for out-of-work actors or actors with between jobs and audible’s in – near New York City, so they have studios, they have nine studios. I’ve actually recorded a book...

Sarah Lane And they say would you perhaps consider reading the Stephen King series?

Leo Laporte So a lot of people make a living doing this.

Sarah Lane I think it sounds like a great job.

Leo Laporte Doesn’t it sound like fun?

Sarah Lane Yes.

Brian Brushwood And Frank Muller would do cool tricks where he would actually – you could tell they were doing a little bit – not enough for you to really notice but a little bit of digital chicanery where he would interrupt himself like when a character interrupts themselves in the book, they would make sure to edit it that way.

Sarah Lane Sure, yeah.

Brian Brushwood It was phenomenal.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Sarah Lane I think there would be no better compliment than for someone to say “I loved that book, the Shawshank Redemption. Sarah Lane was the best reader.”

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Sarah Lane I mean that would be really awesome.

Brian Brushwood For the soundboard.

Roger Chang So when he does the other characters, is that – I guess everything is written out in a script for them and then they read it...

Leo Laporte He reads from the book. Some people, it’s interesting when it’s somebody like Jim Dale who does the Harry Potter books in the States has a lot of character voices. He actually records the voices and when he gets to that character he will listen back to the tape and say, “oh yeah, that’s the voice” and do the voice. So, everybody sounds really different and then some readers don’t sound so different and that’s fine too. In fact Stephen Fry who reads the British version of Harry Potter doesn’t do quite such a dramatic difference between characters and it’s just a matter of taste.

Brian Brushwood It is.

Leo Laporte And it’s really interesting to hear different people do it. It’s a performance. These guys are actors or gals are actors, I mean they are really...

Brian Brushwood What’s tough is to go from when you are reading a series and –

Leo Laporte Somebody else does it? I hate that.

Brian Brushwood Oh! And you’re like “you’re saying the names wrong, what are you doing?”

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Brian Brushwood It drives you nuts.

Roger Chang Is it really jarring? Do you find yourself like, it takes you a while to get back into it?

Leo Laporte Do you... let me ask you this, Brian. I don’t know, maybe this is just me but when I am listening to a book if I go back I can remember where I was when I heard that part of the book there is some sort of weird memory link.

Brian Brushwood You’ll think of something like I’ll read a book or I’ll hear a phrase, I will be like “Nebraska!”.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Brian Brushwood I was driving across Nebraska.

Leo Laporte Isn’t that bizarre?

Brian Brushwood Yeah.

Sarah Lane Well, that’s, that’s like a song. There will be a song that the first time I heard it, where – a certain moment on the radio where I was going, you know, a certain curve in Sebastopol, and I always think of that certain place –

Leo Laporte That curve...yeah.

Sarah Lane That curve, every time I hear it.

Leo Laporte Okay, so you do that with songs. I do that with books. I have never done it with songs, they never do that for me.

Sarah Lane Really?

Leo Laporte Yeah. People often say...

Sarah Lane Oh yeah. I – it will come to a moment in time and it’s not even a very significant moment.

Leo Laporte No, no, no, it’s where you heard it.

Sarah Lane It’s like a déjà vu thing.

Leo Laporte Isn’t that weird? People often say that about songs and it never did it for me but books, it definitely does. Let’s make our pick this week, Predictably Irrational: The Hidden Forces That Shape Our Decisions, Dan Arieli. But because it’s a platinum, you get two. So which one is the best Frank Muller you think just to listen to?

Brian Brushwood Oh man! If you are – you really need to do the Dark Tower series. A lot of people, it’s the only series as far as I know that Stephen King did and if you have read it, you know that all of his other books are secretly about the Dark Tower. Isn’t that wild?

Leo Laporte Oh yeah, I guess that’s true.

Brian Brushwood Because there’s all these weird little crossovers.

Leo Laporte You are absolutely right, I never thought of it that way.

Brian Brushwood Yeah, and definitely read the Dark Tower series.

Leo Laporte Okay. There we go, two great audible picks. You join audible right now, We thank them so much for their support and by the way Colleen, you know she does these TWiTPicks thing. She’s so great, I love Colleen. So, she picks something, she listens to the shows and she hears something, and she has made Predictably Irrational our TWiTPick. So, you could follow TWiTPicks on Twitter. It’s TWiTPicks, or go to and we will make that our pick of the day, every day a new pick from Colleen. She’s so funny; she just picks whatever gets her going. She just loves that. Moving right along here, I think we are almost coming to the end of this show. Oh, oh this is a sad one and I want everybody to take a moment...

Sarah Lane Mournful faces.

Brian Brushwood Grab a glass of wine.

Leo Laporte Grab a glass of wine everybody.

Sarah Lane I have got my C.

Roger Chang Is this a solemn occasion?

Brian Brushwood We don’t have to pour our wine out, do we?

Leo Laporte It’s a solemn occasion.

Sarah Lane No, what, out into our throats?

Leo Laporte No, yeah, right. The end of Encarta.

Sarah Lane Oh my god.

Leo Laporte [67:50] The end of Encarta.

Brian Brushwood By the way this to me is Blu-ray story part two.

Leo Laporte Yeah, no kidding.

Brian Brushwood It’s exact same story.

Leo Laporte It’s the same, isn’t it?

Sarah Lane It is. I have to say I haven’t used Encarta in a long time.

Leo Laporte No one has.

Roger Chang I never used it.

Leo Laporte That’s why.

Sarah Lane I, back in the day, back way back in the day, we are talking, I don’t know...

Leo Laporte Everybody got it free.

Sarah Lane ’93.

Leo Laporte No, no, it wasn’t that far ago, was it? Maybe it was, maybe it was.

Sarah Lane Yeah, yeah because I was still...

Leo Laporte Back then CD-ROMs were huge. And how old were you? 12?

Sarah Lane No. Well no, I was a little older than that.

Leo Laporte You were pretty, you were 16.

Sarah Lane Well, yeah, I was like 15.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Sarah Lane But I mean I love, I thought it was the best thing in the world. I would look up – it was just like flipping through an encyclopedia.

Leo Laporte So, you were of an age where you would have used it in school.

Sarah Lane Yes and in fact I did, I did. I used some outdated Encarta CDs in college.

Leo Laporte I did – look over here. I have every, I have the World Book Encyclopedia.

Brian Brushwood Yeah.

Sarah Lane When was the last time you pulled one of those out?

Leo Laporte Stupid. Well, I bought it for the kids. I thought when I was a kid I used, I read the encyclopedia. I loved reading the encyclopedia.

Roger Chang And you know what. Then you realize that especially when you go to do research papers for high school, you go through five different encyclopedias, you realize none of them has all the info.

Leo Laporte They’re all crap but Wikipedia is so much better.

Brian Brushwood But look at what Encarta – what kept Encarta alive was that it brought rich media, it brought the video files and stuff at a time when the bandwidth of the internet was not sufficient to do that.

Roger Chang There wasn’t really much of an internet.

Brian Brushwood Oh kind of like Blu-ray, right now…

Leo Laporte You know what, Brian. You, I think you really have touched on an absolute analogy. Encarta going away is basically 10 years from now...

Brian Brushwood Five years from now, we are going to have that...

Leo Laporte Yup.

Brian Brushwood …half the time. Five years from now.

Leo Laporte Here’s to Blu-ray.

Brian Brushwood Here’s to Blu-ray.

Leo Laporte Remember Blu-ray, let’s do it now. Let’s get over because we got the wine.

Sarah Lane Pour out a little liquor for our dead homies.

Roger Chang Are you saying Larry Ellison was right about the whole...?

Leo Laporte What did he say?

Roger Chang Net computing or cloud computing, remember?

Leo Laporte Yeah, well I think he is.

Roger Chang So, that’s where all –

Leo Laporte We talked about this last week but I didn’t ask you guys what do you think of this OnLive thing that they announced at the Game Developers Conference? And it’s from Steve Perlman the guy who did WebTV. It’s gaming in the cloud.

Roger Chang I – conceptually I think, you know, it could work if you had enough bandwidth. The problem is you are going to have...

Leo Laporte You think people don’t have enough bandwidth?

Brian Brushwood Not after the cap.

Roger Chang This is so...

Leo Laporte Well, here’s my – you want my conspiracy theory?

Brian Brushwood Yeah.

Leo Laporte Yeah, they are doing the cap, unless you buy the special gaming package. And that’s I think part of the reason you are seeing all of this, not just gaming, premium services but especially OnLive. I think...

Roger Chang OnLive is going to need a couple of more years of work before...

Leo Laporte Here’s what I think. I think Steve Perlman has already made the deal with Comcast and Verizon and they have said – or maybe Time Warner, you do give us quality service, you prioritize our packets, you can charge $15 a month extra on your cable bill and people will be able to play OnLive better than they would be able to if they didn’t –

Roger Chang So, net neutrality is now officially –

Leo Laporte Net neutrality is dead because of OnLive.

Brian Brushwood I will tell you man. I have been infected by some games and it’s like there are times I would easily pay $50 extra for prioritized packets if I could know that I had the better ping.

Leo Laporte Bingo.

Brian Brushwood That competitive nature…

Leo Laporte Bingo. And the thing is, now you don’t pay $60 for the game anymore, you paying $15 a month, you get all the games you want. It’s great for a casual gamer but serous gamers are going to say well this is pretty cool if, if and that’s a big if, Roger.

Roger Chang It’s a big if; if it works. I mean the thing is you are essentially allowing a remote server to process the game, so as soon as you do a little, you know, control action…

Leo Laporte That’s the point.

Roger Chang You have to wait for that. You know, it’s...

Leo Laporte You think it’s not going to happen.

Roger Chang I don’t think it’s going to happen for another couple of years.

Brian Brushwood I tell you, in the meantime...

Leo Laporte They think it’s going to happen this fall.

Roger Chang I – they are very optimistic.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Roger Chang From everything I have read about everyone’s experience with it, it’s going to need a couple of years of tweaking.

Brian Brushwood Now if you want an example of what they are doing right in video games, you use Steam, don’t you?

Roger Chang Yes.

Brian Brushwood Steam is phenomenal.

Leo Laporte Brilliant.

Brian Brushwood It is so funny to watch Valve beat Microsoft at their own game.

Leo Laporte Brilliant.

Brian Brushwood They took the exact model that made Xbox Live king of the consoles –

Leo Laporte Does it everybody beat Microsoft at their own game ultimately?

Roger Chang No, no, no but see there is a difference. Microsoft’s model on gaming has always been selling you the media.

Brian Brushwood Right.

Roger Chang Steam was basically removing the entire distribution model and then just storing it online, which makes sense.

Brian Brushwood But they were ones to foster the community to where now you are sitting there, you are doing a word processing document and your buddy hops on Left 4 Dead, and you’re like, well hell I want to, I want to beat up zombies with him.

Roger Chang Steam actually, I mean there were instances of that before, but Steam actually successfully married that aspect along with the download sales aspect of the games.

Brian Brushwood What’s amazing is they are also releasing all of their sales data, or not all, some of their sales data based on like these weird sales that they’ll do. Like they will just, a game will come out and a month later, out of nowhere they will say next three days this game is $20.

Leo Laporte You know that’s been a huge success for them too. They have made, you know, they will cut the price in half and they will sell 10 times more, 300 times more. So, it’s really been, I mean I wait for the sales now, don’t you?

Brian Brushwood Oh, totally and what’s exciting too is, like, take a game like Team Fortress 2 where they have released it, it’s been out forever but they release tracking information that shows they will come out with an update. They will just randomly add another map, they will update a character and all of a sudden the sales go through the roof again.

Leo Laporte This is a brilliant model.

Roger Chang And it’s, well the best thing about Steam is it’s portable.

Leo Laporte Right, I have it here, I have at home, it doesn’t matter.

Roger Chang Yeah, you can play it on any machine that you want, you are not limited and that’s kind of a…

Leo Laporte I don’t have it here. I actually don’t play games here, Colleen. I don’t play games.

Brian Brushwood My brother came over and I had Steam both on my laptop and my desktop and he was able just to log in and because I had already downloaded all the same games he had, he was able to just type in his name and start playing with his account on my computer.

Leo Laporte Isn’t that great?

Roger Chang No, it makes – that’s ideally what the video gaming industry should look like. I think the current issue is you basically have these vertically integrated markets between Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo and it’s a very a high barrier of entry for people who want to develop games and sell them. It’s – I don’t know.

Brian Brushwood [73:45] That’s my favorite thing about Steam is how they are making the sub-$20 games economically viable like World Of Goo. You’ve played World Of Goo haven’t you?

Leo Laporte I love World Of Goo.

Brian Brushwood It’s phenomenal and I just started, somebody got me infected with Defense Grid: The Awakening.

Roger Chang Oh.

Leo Laporte What’s that. Haven’t seen that.

Brian Brushwood $19, it’s phenomenal.

Leo Laporte Is it like a …

Brian Brushwood A real time strategy, they call it a Tower Defense game. If you like Tower Defense game it just scratches that itch.

Leo Laporte What’s it called?

Brian Brushwood Defense Grid: The Awakening. You’re going to love it. It’s on Steam, yeah.

Leo Laporte And it’s probably, like, 10 bucks right?

Brian Brushwood It’s like, I think it was 19 when I bought it, but who knows, there may be a sale any minute now.

Leo Laporte Defense Grid Awakening.

Brian Brushwood The Awakening, yeah.

Leo Laporte This is, it’s interesting. Is this a model that others, is it just games or –

Brian Brushwood They are doing just games right now. There are other people who are hopping on it as well. Stardock has a product called Impulse, which is essentially a carbon copy.

Roger Chang Well, they had one before and then they overhauled it to be a little more…

Leo Laporte But it is just gaming.

Roger Chang It’s games, but I think that Stardock also writes their own software. So, it is not hard to see that they are going to start integrating.

Brian Brushwood Impulse is not bad though, I liked – I played the Political Machine. That was a lot of fun.

Roger Chang The bigger issue though is like do you, I see two models emerging. One is subscription based where you have GameTap where you pay a monthly fee and you get access to everything. Versus Steam where you pay for the whole game and you can play it indefinitely, you just have to be online.

Brian Brushwood And I will tell you I think Steam is going to be the winner there because I love knowing that I don’t have to touch a disc, I love knowing that I’ll never lose a code.

Leo Laporte Who cares if there is anybody else, you got Steam.

Roger Chang If GameTap actually really works on getting enough triple A titles, I don’t see it not having…

Leo Laporte Would you have both, memberships to both?

Roger Chang I used to, now I just have Steam. Because I own the game, right? So –

Brian Brushwood Plus Steam’s free. Like you can sign in, you buy the game, you got the game forever.

Leo Laporte I guess if everybody did it for free, then you would have accounts everywhere and you would just get the game that you wanted and then you don’t even have to care anymore.

Roger Chang But if you have something like GameTap where you ideally would – you pay your monthly fee, you get access to the entire inventory of games that they have whenever you want. It’s basically like cable. You pay your fee and then you can play when you want.

Brian Brushwood Now I tell you what, there was a time that Steam was so good, I assumed okay, digital distribution, that’s where it’s at from now. And I made the mistake of buying Spore over their direct download –

Leo Laporte What a crappy game that was, I was so sad about Spore.

Brian Brushwood Well, the game itself was fun, but the download experience was miserable. I still have…

Leo Laporte That’s because of the copy protection, right?

Roger Chang It’s because it was an EA product.

Brian Brushwood It broke my computer.

Roger Chang EA tried to do their own digital download service, it was just horrible; it was wonky, it was kludgy and the user experience was horrible.

Brian Brushwood I had to reformat my laptop because it was – it did such a poor job and it got mixed up and every time I booted up it would just freeze.

Leo Laporte By the way, I just want to point out that this is why gamers never get laid because Sarah Lane is like…

Brian Brushwood She is turned off. She’s got nothing.

Leo Laporte I am so bored. I couldn’t be more – I love Bejeweled.

Sarah Lane I do actually. You know it’s funny, there are a few people on the chat room who are like; “I notice Sarah isn’t talking anymore”. And I was like “well, I’m reading you guys” and I was like actually, you know what? I am not that interested.

Leo Laporte Couldn’t care less. Is there any game you play at all?

Sarah Lane Honestly, right now…

Leo Laporte The game of life?

Roger Chang I love that game! Get the car with the two kids…

Sarah Lane I mean there’s a few silly iPhone games that I play but honestly I am much more sort of entrenched in sort of the web-app social network sphere.

Brian Brushwood But you’ve played Peggle haven’t you? Surely you love Peggle!

Leo Laporte Peggle is a good game, don’t knock Peggle.

Brian Brushwood No, dude it’s like crack for the brain.

Leo Laporte Yeah, Peggle is a good game.

Brian Brushwood You haven’t played crack Peggle?

Roger Chang Have you ever played Scrabulous?

Sarah Lane I haven’t played crack Peggle. No, I don’t think so.

Leo Laporte What happened to – Scrabulous is gone, right? But they’ve replaced it with –

Roger Chang I used to play that with two other people –

Sarah Lane Well, if that’s a game, yes absolutely.

Leo Laporte You’d like Scrabble because you intellectual, you like big word things.

Sarah Lane Highly evolved human, you all like Scrabulous.

Roger Chang Yahoo used to have one of their Flash games, it was a word jumble game where you had to come up with words as the letters were dropping.

Leo Laporte Molly Wood likes Wordle. She plays Wordle nonstop, it is kind of similar.

Sarah Lane To Scrabble?

Roger Chang That’s the thing, you know? When people think games, they’re thinking FPS, they’re thinking RTS.

Leo Laporte No, there could be casual games. I get the stupidest magazine; I don’t why they put me on this list called the Casual Gamers Association Magazine.

Brian Brushwood Oh, that’s hilarious.

Sarah Lane It’s like people who only eat cooked sushi.

Brian Brushwood This just in: People like bright colors!

Leo Laporte Ooh, Solitaire: The Next Generation. It’s like it’s so sad.

Brian Brushwood 3D solitaire finally.

Leo Laporte Yeah, it’s like shuffle board basically.

Sarah Lane There are a lot of games that are really fine, I mean the word game, I mean that’s a very, it’s a very broad term. There are certain games I like, certain games I don’t. I think I just happen to be one of those people who doesn’t like –

Leo Laporte You are not a gamer. There are plenty women gamers. We have had gamers in here all the time.

Brian Brushwood My mom is a –

Sarah Lane Like, first person shooters makes me nauseous.

Leo Laporte Yeah, because of the head movement, head bob.

Sarah Lane Yeah, it just, I don’t know, I have never been able to click in to liking it.

Brian Brushwood I actually think like my mom may actually spend more hours playing games than I do.

Leo Laporte What games?

Brian Brushwood Well she plays these, a niche I didn’t even know existed like the Mystery Find And Hunt The Clue Games.

Roger Chang Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Brian Brushwood You know what I am talking about right?

Roger Chang So, basically these are PopCap games where –

Leo Laporte PopCap’s very smart.

Roger Chang Well, you remember how you – it’s like a Where’s Waldo. You have to find out all these clues in a giant jumbled image.

Sarah Lane See, I like that stuff. And actually you feel really smart when you finally figure it out.

Brian Brushwood Yeah, you would love it. I found the scissors.

Roger Chang Remember Highlights magazine for kids? In the back they would have a find all – find the sailboat?

Sarah Lane At the orthodontist’s office, I would own those Highlights magazines.

Leo Laporte So pathetic. You guys are a bunch of losers. Not you mum, it’s okay. If you’re a mum it’s fine, but you guys, come on. Find the scissors…

Roger Chang Or do you play Zuma, where you just basically mail the –

Sarah Lane We were 11 years old, Leo.

Leo Laporte Oh, you are not doing it now.

Sarah Lane Highlights no, I haven’t picked up a Highlights in quite a while. I don’t even know if they exist anymore.

Roger Chang Remember Goofus and Gallant?

Brian Brushwood One of those guys could never get his act together.

Roger Chang No, Goofus was the cool one.

Leo Laporte No, Gallant was the cool one.

Brian Brushwood He is telling a joke. He is acting like…

Leo Laporte Oh, I’m sorry I missed the Highlights for children inside humor.

Sarah Lane Well, it’s highbrow.

Leo Laporte This might be a good time to end the show. I want, you can all have more wine though. I want to thank Brian Brushwood for actually being here, you are fantastic, will you please come back on TWiT, we can do it via Skype from Nebraska or anywhere you are.

Brian Brushwood Can I point out what is significant about this episode?

Leo Laporte What is?

Brian Brushwood We have never said the T-word.

Leo Laporte I know and we are not going to say it now. So, don’t you say it.

Brian Brushwood Can I just say an @ word?

Leo Laporte Yeah, what’s your @ word?

Brian Brushwood @shwood.

Leo Laporte Which is also the name of your website, shwood, no c.

Brian Brushwood That’s the last six letters of my name, Brian Brushwood.

Leo Laporte So forget the Brian Bru and just remember the shwood.

Sarah Lane Weren’t you supposed to eat fire?

Leo Laporte I am going to eat fire after the show.

Brian Brushwood Afterwards.

Sarah Lane Okay.

Leo Laporte Brian’s going to – this will be a bonus extra for those of you watching the video live, I’m going to eat fire. Thank you for reminding him.

Sarah Lane I was just sort of quietly waiting for Leo to eat fire.

Leo Laporte Oh, I am not looking forward to this.

Sarah Lane He’s toasty enough, that will do it.

Leo Laporte I am looking forward – I am toasty enough, that’s for sure. shwood, @shwood, thank you Brian. I have not been following you so I am going to start now.

Brian Brushwood Roger Chang can start following me because I DM’d him earlier.

Sarah Lane Roger Chang doesn’t follow me either. I just made your name Trang by the way.

Roger Chang I follow exactly 50 people.

Leo Laporte His is jollyroger as long as we are talking @ signs, no T-words.

Sarah Lane Still have not said the T-word, this is awesome!

Leo Laporte No T-word, just @ signs. Roger is also the producer of Tekzilla at

Roger Chang Or

Leo Laporte Now, why would you that, because it’s just works.

Roger Chang Yeah, but for some reason I – either one but I instinctively always type

Leo Laporte No, no. Why would you do that? You have got We didn’t have We couldn’t have that.

Roger Chang No, no, we didn’t have callforhelp, because that guy in Colorado with the roofing business had it and wouldn’t sell it.

Leo Laporte There is a guy who has too.

Brian Brushwood That’s why I registered, it’s because I didn’t want to have to say so many syllables.

Leo Laporte Very smart. Is that where you go?

Brian Brushwood forwards right to

Leo Laporte Scam School, great program, and you have a book too. I should plug your book. It is called “Cheats, Cons, Swindles and Tricks: 57 Ways to Scam a Free Drink” by Mr. Brian Brushwood and where can you get this Brian?

Brian Brushwood Just email me.

Leo Laporte I love saying it.

Brian Brushwood At It is fun to say, isn’t it?

Brian Brushwood shwood.

Leo Laporte shwood.

Sarah Lane shwood.

Leo Laporte The Seaman’s Gallery in Modesto.

Roger Chang Fisherman’s Galley.

Leo Laporte Great place to go to get all of your fish needs.

Roger Chang Really bad sounding. Fisherman’s Gallery. Thank you.

Sarah Lane Roger’s family.

Leo Laporte Runs a restaurant in Modesto.

Sarah Lane Not called the Seaman’s Gallery.

Leo Laporte Sarah Lane is a wonderful human being.

Sarah Lane I certainly am, thank you.

Leo Laporte And you can find her at our brand new podcast on the TWiT network, TWiF: this WEEK in FUN.

Sarah Lane Isn’t it fun just to be able to plug me as one of the other podcasts on the TWiT –

Leo Laporte I’m so happy. Couldn’t make me happier.

Sarah Lane I couldn’t be happier.

Brian Brushwood That was one more for the Sarah Lane soundboard right there.

Sarah Lane What, that I am part of the – did I say?

Brian Brushwood Isn’t that fun to plug me? And –

Leo Laporte Oh!

Sarah Lane Hey!

Brian Brushwood I’m sorry that’s…

Leo Laporte Well we are making a list of these –

Brian Brushwood He’s writing it down.

Leo Laporte Because it might, it actually might come in handy later.

Sarah Lane Blackmail, it’s a good one.

Leo Laporte I thank you all for joining us. I remind you – by the way, thanks to for the beverages today. That was pretty good.

Sarah Lane By the way Gary’s Wine, he was in the chat room and he seemed really happy with everything and he says he will send us bunk wine if we want it.

Leo Laporte What’s bunk wine – oh bad wine, so that we can complain? Because we couldn’t complain today.

Brian Brushwood By the way we got the story on Dan Aykroyd in there as well.

Leo Laporte What happened to Dan?

Brian Brushwood He said that he was at his daughter’s something or other, he really wanted to make it happen but couldn’t.

Leo Laporte Oh, I am sorry, we will get Dan on another time, that’s fine. But you know what? I am happy I got Brian Brushwood, I got Roger Chang and I got Sarah Lane. I couldn’t do much better than that. I thank you all for being here. A reminder you can get this show every week automatically delivered. It’s an amazing thing. It’s called a podcast. If you got to iTunes and search for TWiT you will find it and a bunch of other great shows. TWiT Picks are on that T–place if you go to @twitpicks. You could follow it, and Coleen has been working very hard to give us some great stuff or I’m Leo Laporte, thanks for joining us in another TWiT.

Sarah Lane Goodbye.

Leo Laporte Is in the can.

Brian Brushwood Goodbye.

Sarah Lane Goodbye.

Roger Chang Goodbye.

Brian Brushwood Let’s take a moment for a PSA about G forces, something that I think troubles all of us here. It’s important that we here at TWiT recognize the importance of recognizing the danger of G forces.

Leo Laporte I’ll tell you why I say that. People talk about surviving a crash and it’s the fact that you are going 70 miles an hour and had to stop suddenly and your guts kept going.

Brian Brushwood And more importantly your brain sitting in this bath of cerebrospinal fluid just knocks right up there.

Leo Laporte Exactly.

Sarah Lane Oh, ouch.