TWiT 192/Transcript

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Episode 192


This transcript is provided by our friends at Pods in Print

Leo Laporte Bandwidth for this WEEK in TECH is provided by AOL Radio at

This is TWiT; this WEEK in TECH, episode 192 for April 26, 2009, Kipple And Bits.

This WEEK in TECH is brought to you by; Sign up for the Platinum plan and get two free books. Go to And follow Audible on Twitter, user ID audible_com; and by GoToMyPC, unchain yourself from your office PC and access it from anywhere with GoToMyPC. For your free thirty-day trial, visit

It’s time for TWiT, the show that covers all things – God, I don’t even know what we cover, all things technological and we are going to have a massive TWiT today. And I am thrilled about it. Starting off in SkypeBox number two, Mr. Patrick Norton, ladies and gentlemen, my good buddy and pal, hey Patrick.

Patrick Norton How is it going?

Leo Laporte It’s going great, it’s great to have you back on, from the Techzilla show on Revision3 and my old co-host on The Screen Savers, he is in the garage today.

Patrick Norton Always in the garage.

Leo Laporte Sarah kick you out, put you in the garage, is that it?

Patrick Norton No, it’s the farthest I can get from the toddler without having to sit in the car.

Leo Laporte Yes, that actually makes perfect sense to me. Also, with us via Skype, Mr. Jason Calacanis. Hello, Jason, how are you today?

Jason Calacanis I am having the greatest week of my life. Great to see everybody, peace to all my peoples in the chat room.

Leo Laporte Peace to my homies.

Jason Calacanis To all the haters out there --

Leo Laporte Oh come on, there are no haters.

Jason Calacanis No love for you. No love for the haters.

Leo Laporte Nothing but people who love Mr. Jason Calacanis. Also here, I am very pleased, he’s back from his days breathing fire, the fire eating Brian Brushwood……..

Brian Brushwood Howdy

Leo Laporte …from Brian is the host of Scam School on Revision3 and the last time he was here, he said we need a cheap red wine, so we got one for you.

Brian Brushwood Thank goodness.

Leo Laporte Could you have possibly bought a bigger laptop computer?

Brian Brushwood Oh yes, this is?

Catherine Hall Yes, I mean, how heavy is this?

Brian Brushwood It’s like eight pounds. It’s a desktop replacement.

Leo Laporte Poor Catherine.

Catherine Hall Do you call it the battleship?

Brian Brushwood I should call it the battleship. This is my compromise, because this is like ………

Leo Laporte Call it Capricorn.

Brian Brushwood I spend so much time on the road that my wife doesn’t want me to come home and ignore everyone to play games. So I figure I get a gaming laptop, get my game on the road.

Leo Laporte That’s one of those DELL FX Gaming…..

Brian Brushwood Yes, the Gateway.

Leo Laporte The Gateway, I mean.

Brian Brushwood I actually was embarrassed about -- that it was a Gateway, I covered up the Gateway logo.

Leo Laporte I noticed that, you put the TWiT logo where the Gateway logo belongs? And there’s a sideways Apple, I don’t even know what that’s all about.

Brian Brushwood That was – somebody just – that was a sneak attack, somebody just…

Leo Laporte Slapped it on?

Brian Brushwood ……..slapped it on there.

Leo Laporte Scam School, great show, great way to learn how to win bar bets, essentially.

Brian Brushwood Yes, manipulate people, get what you want.

Leo Laporte Yes, also here, I’m very pleased to say, Catherine Hall, my good friend and photographer. Catherine is a specialist in taking pictures of people, but she is also a geek, as any digital photographer must be these days, at Great to see you.

Catherine Hall Thank you.

Leo Laporte And finally, last but not the least, The Bird Brain herself, ladies and gentlemen, Miss Kirsten Sanford.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Howdy

Leo Laporte I said it right.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) You did.

Leo Laporte I paused, I thought, no consonants and I got it right.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Good.

Leo Laporte Kiki, you’re actually a good person to have on this day because the big story as we record, and it is a developing story is the story of this swine flu.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Yes, it’s huge right now.

Leo Laporte And it’s really interesting to watch people’s reaction to this. Some people like Colleen go, oh yeah, just another one of those stories.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Whatever.

Leo Laporte She said I’m worried about the killer bees but I guess now I can worry about the swine flu. She mocks it. But then there are those of us like me, who read all the books about the 1918 pandemic that killed 10 million people. And I’m thinking……

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Right.

Leo Laporte …..could this be the one.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Well, there could be a pandemic and the CDC and other – and The World Health Organization have been looking out for the next big pandemic and the way that we have international travel and just the way that our world works we’re so much more connected and people come across -- into contact with so many more people on a daily basis now. Our schools are crowded, and that’s another thing, they’ve shut down schools in Mexico as a result of this outbreak……….

Leo Laporte They are shutting down schools in Texas now.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) ……and there’s a school in New York City, I think they are shutting down a school there and so it’s scary and there is a reason to mock the story and there is a reason to take it very seriously.

Leo Laporte We just don’t know yet.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) And that’s right, we just don’t know. But the thing about the swine flu that is scarier than the avian flu is the fact that it comes from a mammal. So, the jump in the avian flu, in order for the flu to become a pandemic coming from birds to people is that it would have to switch to become contagious among people. And so that’s a major mutation, and that’s not necessarily something that – it might take place in a bird but then that bird doesn’t come in contact with the person and so it could never make it to people, or swine or whatever. But the fact that this is a flu coming from a very close relative of the human species makes it a lot more dangerous and it’s – and the sub-types that it’s made up of, this H1N1 sub-type, it’s very contagious, it’s contagious, it’s a mammalian flu, and that’s two out of three of the major factors, when an organization like the CDC is looking at it to determine whether or not it might become a pandemic, and so this is something that the CDC is taking very seriously. And the CDC, I will be honest here, our government is not ready, our health system is not ready to do anything.

Leo Laporte There are no vaccines. I heard a report that there is one company that can make them, they say, in double -- in half the time, it takes them half the time, that’s still 13 weeks.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Right, and so by that time, the pandemic can already have taken its course, they’re saying that this flu is showing up in two days, maybe as long as five days to show up in a person to..

Leo Laporte Well, I am watching, there is Google Maps which is great, there are number of – I put a link in the Show Notes to a Mashable Article that says how to follow this, and you can use the World Health Organization or the Centers for Disease Control, but there is also a great Google Map, and I’ve been looking at this Google Map, and every time I look, there are more dots on the Map. Originally it was Mexico, then North America, then Europe, and now I am seeing in Columbia, I am seeing in New Zealand, some outbreaks in Europe, and even in the Middle East, and in this day and age, with – of air travel…

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Yes.

Leo Laporte This stuff could spread very quickly.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Yes, and that’s something they have known for several years, is that because we are, because of air travel and our ability to be international within a few hours, these things can spread so easily, and the biggest protection that you can have for yourself is to wash your hands, that’s the best thing you can do.

Leo Laporte What about those masks?

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Yes, the masks help.

Leo Laporte Do they help?

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Uh-huh, absolutely, if you…

Leo Laporte They are like the surgical masks, the cheap ones you get at Long’s, those are okay?

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Yes, because the airborne particles, when people sneeze or cough, those particles end up in the air and so if you know you’re going to be out around people, you’re going to, maybe a school, or you’re going to a hospital, where sick people go, maybe you want to put on a mask to protect yourself.

Leo Laporte I am going to start wearing one right now, in fact what are you doing in my room? Get out of here, all of you.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) I washed my hands, really.

Brian Brushwood I have heard the opposite, so this is news to me. What I heard was, is that wearing a mask was not a good idea, it gave you a false sense of security and that the reason that you see them wearing them in surgeries is not to keep something from getting into their mouth, but to keep them from coughing, and…

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) It’s to get out, yes.

Leo Laporte So a mask is even more useful if you are sick.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Yes, if you’re…

Brian Brushwood That’s what I would imagine.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) If you are sick, it’s much more helpful, I mean the thing is, if you’re going to wipe your nose with your hand or, that puts bacterial – the viral, not bacterial, but the viral particles onto your hand.

Leo Laporte This was more airborne than normal, is that what I am reading, is some – I can’t really quite follow all this stuff.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) I don’t know, necessarily that it’s more airborne than normal.

Leo Laporte There is a lot of hysteria.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) If it is a flu that gets into the lungs and the mucous membranes, I mean, that’s where, I mean, different viruses will get into different tissues in different ways.

Leo Laporte Right.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) And so, this flu might be specifically multiplying within the mucous membranes, and so the – if that’s where it is, then you’re going to be sneezing, and air particles are going to come out, those are going to contain viral particles, and then it’s air borne. You have these aerosolized particles – aerosolized little bits of things flying around everywhere.

Leo Laporte And the reason we’re taking this seriously is because 20 people have died in Mexico.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Yes.

Leo Laporte It is fatal for some, nobody has died yet outside of Mexico, I am not sure why that is.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) And I don’t know, something that I haven’t seen is that the people who are dying are probably immune system compromised to begin with.

Leo Laporte Yes, and what’s interesting they tend to be younger people.

Patrick Norton Quick question.

Leo Laporte Yes, Patrick Norton.

Patrick Norton I mean, because I – my wife’s been very concerned about this because we have a toddler, it’s starting to show up, a minor panic in some of my relatives, I mean, can we put this in the perspective compared to the 1918 pandemic, I mean, because the numbers in the pandemic vary between 50 and 100 million were killed, the numbers, as the people doing – epidemiologists doing the study, as they get more contemporary, they scale the numbers up. They don’t know if it started in Fort Riley, like somewhere in Kansas or somewhere in Asia, the records aren’t tight enough to know what it is, they did say that it was a cytokine storm, an overreaction of the body’s immune system that caused the deaths more so than the actual flu itself.

But we are talking about 5 to 20% of the people, I think probably closer to 5% of the people who contracted the disease, and something like a quarter of the United States at one point or – not disease, the influenza, like 25, 20% of the U.S. population had it, like 2 to 5% of the population died from it. What are we talking about, because everybody’s like, 20 people have died in Mexico, and it’s like, dude, like 800 people…

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) It’s 86 actually, according to…

Leo Laporte 86, is it now?

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) 86.

Patrick Norton 86, okay…

Leo Laporte But there haven’t been that many, I mean if you look at the Map, there are not that many points on the Map yet, so…

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) What was your question?

Patrick Norton Yes, but I mean, we are talking about the United States, like a typical year is 44,000 traffic fatalities.

Leo Laporte Right.

Patrick Norton Divided by 365, so let’s call that 120 are going to die today in car accidents in the United States, 20 – 86 people have died in Mexico, you know what I am saying?

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Uh-huh.

Patrick Norton Like I am trying to understand what percentage of the people are dying of this? Is it spreading to the – have the epidemiologists that are working on it, because they are like, the Center for Disease Control is like, whoo, proof that we need to be funded, yes, and that [indiscernible], I mean, I tease, like I happen to love the idea that they are, I wish that they were as well funded as other branches of government that have failed us incredibly in the last couple of years, but, so they’re flying in experts to try to start tracking this. Do we even know in Mexico, how many people, what percentage of people have actually died, and how many, what percentage of the population has it? Because it just seems like, it’s a 24 hour news cycle, tune in to the tail end of the 5’O Clock broadcast.

Leo Laporte Some of it could be that, Patrick, but there is, because of the pandemic of 1918, there is a legitimate concern, and people, health officials are very concerned that this could be the one, In fact I have read an article that said, it’s not a question of when, it’s going to happen, we just don’t know if it’s this one.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Yes, it will happen, yes, we don’t know if it’s this one, I mean, you are right, like we said before, there is a certain aspect of it that is the 24 hour news cycle, and these news agencies are grabbing on something that’s not war related to be able to talk about and so they are like, yes…

Unknown Speaker Or finance related…

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Or finance related, it’s something completely different…

Leo Laporte It’s bad news that doesn’t have anything to do with the other bad news.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Right, but at the same…

Leo Laporte Fresh bad news. Quick, get the graphics department going.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) But at the same time this is something that we do need to be concerned about. I don’t think it’s being going long enough for them to really – I mean, maybe the CDC does have numbers that they haven’t completely reported yet. Maybe they do know more about it than they are letting out.

Unknown Speaker Is there any numbers or statistics on the fatality rate of those who catch the disease. I mean, are we looking at the disease as a death sentence or…

Leo Laporte

A lot of people survive it in the U.S. In fact most people have survived in the U.S. All the fatalities are in Mexico, right.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Yeah, most people survive. And the thing that you want to -- you hope for is that you don’t get a flu that will be dangerous for the average person. So we know that the flu is dangerous for babies and for the elderly, people who have weakened immune systems. People who are immune compromised. Those - that’s who most flus, the yearly flu, is dangerous for. And that’s just kind of like, okay, that’s just -- we know that. But what we don’t want is for all of us in this room, who -- we assume we’re fine.

Leo Laporte Important people. Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) The important people.

Unknown Speaker Me.

Patrick Norton Well, that’s what interesting about the…

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Yeah, you don’t want – you don’t want like 12 and 13 and 14 year olds getting sick and dying from this flu and that’s when it becomes dangerous.

Leo Laporte That’s what was interesting about the pandemic was that it affected young people, that it was mostly soldiers, initially, who died and that was what was so scary. I guess the high…

Patrick Norton They also – but also the soldiers at the time, the soldiers of the time, they were post World War I. the health conditions of the military around the world were pretty deplorable. One of the most striking statistics for an army that was brutally impacted was India, which would have been like 20% of the Indian Army, I believe, died of it. But the other thing is, the armies are cleaner and healthier and in better shape these days, is I think something that – you know what I mean, when people sort of like…

Leo Laporte Everything I read said it wasn’t hygiene issues, it was because they didn’t have the immunities that the older folks had.

Patrick Norton Well why would they not have the…

Leo Laporte Because they hadn’t exposed to earlier incidences of flu which gave people over 40 some form of protection that the young -- people under 40 didn’t have. And what is a little scary at is that the same thing is happening with this particular Swine Flu, that the people who are dying are younger. So that’s one of the many reasons of cause for concern.

I mean the story, the text -- we should talk about the text story and the text story partly is that you will see on Twitter and other sources a lot of hysteria and craziness. Adam Curry couldn’t be with us on the show today but in his place Jason Calacanis. Jason, is this all one big conspiracy? Was it the Federal Government that designed this flu?

Jason Calacanis No, I’m sorry. I have a job, I can’t waste my time with conspiracy theories. I know Adam has no job.

Leo Laporte I think they did a special edition of no agenda this morning to cover the conspiracy.

Jason Calacanis Oh God.

Leo Laporte Infowars has already published an article saying…

Jason Calacanis Too much time on your hands. People who have jobs don’t come up with these conspiracy theories, somehow. You know what’s interesting, in Japan…

Leo Laporte You just came back from Asia, yeah.

Jason Calacanis Yeah, and I’m always shocked in Japan, like I was in a meeting with somebody and the translator had a mask on the entire meeting. This is an hour and a half, like, high level meeting and I guess she happened to be sick that day. She wore the mask and I’m like, she’s talking to me, I feel like I’m talking to like a storm trooper or something, because I can’t see her lips moving. I have no idea what she looks like but she’s translating for an hour and half in the meeting. And I was like wow, that’s really interesting, I mean they are incredibly courteous, they wear these not to protect themselves but to contain themselves from infecting other people.

Leo Laporte Yeah I wish...

Brian Brushwood You had also just travelled through two airports and across the world in a little tiny tube, so she may have been wearing it to protect herself.

Jason Calacanis From me, it’s not quite possible. Yeah but you see this pretty often in all of the places, Japan and in Seoul. They wear them sometimes also from pollution outside but it’s mainly for people who are sick. And I think I’m going to start wearing them on planes because I had friend who was a doctor like five years ago and she’s like, there’s going to be another pandemic, and all that stuff, you should wear a surgical mask. If you think you look silly just throw your blanket over your head and go to sleep.

Leo Laporte On a plane you should wear one to protect your self.

Jason Calacanis Yeah, exactly and these things costs like a dollar or two or three, so I mean, I want to get -- I’m going to try find a domain name and start selling these things, because that’s got to be the greatest business model ever…

Leo Laporte I actually wore one on the plane to Egypt for that very reason, I was a little nervous about that. So, yeah…

Jason Calacanis Probably because you’re getting old.

Brian Brushwood Just to speak directly to the tech angle, I think it’s amazing what they’re doing with the Google Maps, you have -- actually being able to see the outbreaks and I wonder, there’s a – you talk about the signal to noise ratio, and obviously we’re way more interconnected and obviously knowledge and communication and technology makes this possible to a degree that was not possible in the early 20th century and I wonder if, is the mere fact of our instant communication, to instantly know where the outbreaks are and what areas need to take high levels of precaution, if that alone will be enough to stop it, or the flip-side is, as you mentioned, Twitter hysteria. You’ve got the signal and you’ve got the noise so which is going to – which is – is technology going to end up being a boom or a bust?

Leo Laporte Very interesting, yeah, very good point, yeah. I think people are smart enough to know that what you see on Twitter is just chatter. Literally…

Jason Calacanis It’s a starting point. It’s a staring point.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Jason Calacanis And then you go do your research on there. Obviously, I saw it the other night and I was like, what the heck is this flu stuff, and then I worked backwards…

Leo Laporte But we’re intelligent. I mean. No, no, no, that was the wrong word.

Brian Brushwood Not like those other people, not like those morons.

Leo Laporte No, no, but we’re sophisticated in terms of understanding that maybe many people, especially new to, Catherine, you’re new to Twitter. Do you know enough to that some of it is BS?

Catherine Hall Yeah, I mean there’s certainly, it will instigate me to look for that online. So, if I see something on Twitter that…

Leo Laporte That’s where it’s useful.

Catherine Hall It’s an interesting point, well I think, well, okay, I’m going to look into this, so…

Leo Laporte I have already created FriendFeed and Twitter searches on swine flu because I know that a lot of good traffic, useful links and so forth, and most of what I know about this swine flu come from links that I have picked up, but I don’t just say, oh yeah, that person said it was a conspiracy, it must be true but you wouldn’t don’t that.

Catherine Hall No. Well and I think another thing to, just on the positive note of it is I wouldn’t have been exposed to it as early as I was if I wasn’t, that’s how I learned about it was through…

Leo Laporte It is the pulse of the – it is now the pulse of our brains, isn’t it.

Catherine Hall It’s more of…

Jason Calacanis You know what the problem with it is though now. I had breakfast with Evan Williams in Biz Wednesday or Thursday and when you click on one of these things now everybody knows, wow people are clicking on the side bar on swine flu, therefore all the marketers now are marketing to whatever the big search terms are. So, the same person, like they’re…

Leo Laporte Oh, no.

Jason Calacanis Fifteen minutes, yes more information on swine flu.

Leo Laporte Oh, that’s terrible.

Jason Calacanis And all the blogs and everything – just the way they sort of follow Google trends or whatever and anyhow I’d say it’s fair game, but you don’t get the actually legitimate chatter, what you are getting now is. Trend service says this service is trending and they have created a page on it.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jason Calacanis So, it’s a…

Leo Laporte You know I created a Twitter account for my mom, which she promptly had me delete, but I tried. And she said, but people the people will follow me, I said yeah, she said I don’t want that. So, -- but because she created a new account she got, it’s interesting. She got a completely different interface than me. I know some people have it. It had Trends right on the front page, it had a search box on the front page. See I don’t have that on my account, only some people have that on their account.

Jason Calacanis That’s because they are trying to scale the service and if they have too many people searching and clicking on those Trends, it’s database hits and what not, so they are just trying to roll it out.

Leo Laporte That’s a really nice feature for something like this, that’s really great.

Jason Calacanis Yeah, it’s a great -- next to it on the right hand column is all the Trends.

Leo Laporte And you see them. I use Twitty on the iPhone and it has a page of Trends. I presume it’s the same. Is that information all coming from

Jason Calacanis Yes, it’s API.

Leo Laporte Okay, so it’s all the same information no matter what client you are using.

Jason Calacanis Yeah.

Leo Laporte Have you guys started playing with the Seesmic or any other new clients, Twitty desktop for the Mac or…

Jason Calacanis

Yeah, Seesmic desktop is very nice, I am using it, it’s legible in multiple accounts and all that stuff, it’s really light. I have been using TweetDeck for a while but that got all those kind of memory problems, it was constantly like crashing or spinning wheel of death on the Mac. I think they are cleaning it up, but it’s really interesting, they were able to raise capital for a Twitter application company.

Leo Laporte Isn’t that amazing.

Jason Calacanis That’s like, I think that’s a sign, it’s a bubble but we’re in a recession right now. So, I don’t understand.

Leo Laporte It’s a recession bubble, don’t you know that?

Jason Calacanis It’s a recession Twitter bubble because, in eBay when eBay became big there were like hundreds of business plans that were like, we’re going to take peoples stuff and then go put it on eBay for them. We are going to create insurance for eBay. We are going to create a payment system, paypal for eBay. When you know a service is -- and also that happened for Facebook, right, like Zanga and Rock You and all those people that are making applications and casual games for Facebook. So, it’s where you know you have a – a company is really worth something, when other companies are built around it.

Brian Brushwood So, real quick, because I know we’re about to move on to something else, but I got to know from Dr. Kiki, is there something everybody should be doing or not be doing, like is now the time to do something or to wait, like for us, because I mean there is nothing that strikes to the heart of fear like…

Leo Laporte I am just not going out, I am staying in. I am going to stay in this room, I am sealing it up and that’s it.

Brian Brushwood But that’s your problem, because you are inviting people like me who travel all over, so I go out and collect the bugs and bring them to you.

Leo Laporte This is the last live TWiT, everybody will be on Skype from now on. What should we do Kiki?

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) The most that you can do really is wash your hands and/or use the [indiscernible] type stuff to, that’s the best you can do because your hands come into contact with so many objects, I mean if you were to keep track of how many times you touch things every day, it’s phenomenal and all the different things that other people have touched, it’s out of control. And so, you want to be able to clean your hands, don’t touch your nose, your eyes, your mouth, try and keep away from…

Brian Brushwood And the [indiscernible] is effective against the virals?

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Yeah, the alcohol, or you could just pour pure alcohol on your hands but that’s a little…

Leo Laporte Or drink a lot of alcohol.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) I have heard two shots of Vodka gets rid of anything.

Brian Brushwood Awesome, in case you swallowed the bugs.

Leo Laporte Hold on, hold on.

Jason Calacanis Very important chief, if you are going to use these things you have to have above 60% alcohol content. I’m a germaphobe.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) That’s true, above 60%.

Jason Calacanis If it’s under 60% all you do is move it around, and also things like fecal material and other dirt and stuff like that, if you don’t wash your hands it just gets moved around on your hands, I know that’s incredibly disgusting, people have to learn how to wash their hands with hot water…

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) At least 20 seconds.

Jason Calacanis … to a minute, for a minute do it, please, everybody who shakes my hand do it, I am an absolute germaphobe, if you meet me in person it’s absolutely fine to not shake my hand and just sort of put your hand up and say hey, great to meet you.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) You could also try, we can all be Japanese and just bow at each other.

Jason Calacanis It’s much better, nobody should touch each others hands.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) That’s the whole reason that they have the bowing tradition is so that they don’t shake hands, and that’s part of it, is not -- you don’t shake hands, you don’t transmit stuff and you just bow, and – yeah.

Leo Laporte We will talk about, in just a bit, the Pirate Bay trial; it turns out the judge had some very suspicious connections, which may…

Patrick Norton But they found he had no conflicts of interest, Leo.

Leo Laporte Yeah, well. Hang on there, we are going to talk about that in just a second. Also, financials are out for Microsoft and Apple. Who do you think was the big winner in the last quarter? The one that’s selling the inexpensive computers, you don’t have to be cool to own or the one that’s selling the very expensive computers you have to be very cool to own. I will tell you the answer in a bit but first we are going to take a little break to mention Jason Calacanis’ very favourite thing in the whole wide world.

Jason Calacanis Really. You are kidding? They’re back.

Leo Laporte They are back, baby.

Jason Calacanis And they are in the first block.

Leo Laporte In the first block, because I know you want talk about

Jason Calacanis Audible, audible, audible.

Leo Laporte Catharine, do you know about audio books, Catherine?

Catherine Hall I am even taking a photo so I can…

Leo Laporte She is taking a photo because she’s so excited, so she will remember it.

Catherine Hall Yeah.

Jason Calacanis Audible. Let me tell you something. You’re on a flight, you’re in your car, you’re wasting time and you are going to listen to some, like Donkey Radio and like...

Leo Laporte That’s called a zoo.

Catherine Hall Did you just say Donkey Radio?

Jason Calacanis Hey, this is the zoo and you are on the zoo and -- we are going to throw a pineapple at this, I mean, it’s just like...

Leo Laporte Donkey Radio.

Jason Calacanis Listen to something better than Donkey Radio. Stop rotting your brain, use that downtime at the gym, on the flight and in your car. You do those three things, at least you do two of the three. You buy a couple of audio books, you go to You’d probably get some ridiculous deal, they give a ridiculous deal to only the TWiT audience. What’s the ridiculous deal…

Leo Laporte The ridiculous deal today -- I am glad you asked, Jason Calacanis. If you go to, you could sign up for a platinum account and get two, not one but two books absolutely free. I am going to recommend one that is very appropriate. Did any of you ever read this, it’s – I found it because it was on the list of the, I think, of the 100 science fiction books you have to read, that everybody has to read. It’s 60 years old now by George R. Stewart, it’s called Earth Abides and it couldn’t be more appropriate. It starts with a guy who’s coming down from the mountains. He was camping and he got bit by a snake and was feverish and writhing for a week but somehow survives, comes to find that most of the earth has died off, due to a great plague that he was safe from, and he thinks because this snake bite somehow inoculated him.

Well it turns out only, maybe hundreds or thousands of people have survived planetary-wide. Earth Abides is about his journey of discovery as he wanders looking for other people. He goes down to Berkeley, it takes place in the Bay Area. So I have a kind of little soft spot for it. He wanders into Berkeley and he saves the library because he says, well this is all of -- everything we have learned. He tries to teach, he does finally run into some other people. They start a tribe, a family. He tries to teach the young ones about the modern world, they can’t learn. It is fascinating story that ends in, I think, a very beautiful and upbeat way about the triumph of not only the earth, because the earth absolutely survives, but also of humanity, not technology, but of humanity.

This is one of the best science fiction books in which there is no ray gun, there is no interplanetary travel, there is no time travel. It’s one of those plague stories that, like The Stand, that occur from time to time and maybe a good time to read this. It certainly is a beautiful book and I highly recommend it, written by George Stewart, narrated by Jonathan Davis and Connie Willis. Let me play just a little bit of it, so you can hear a little bit. Have you ever read this? This is a wonder...Patrick, you have probably read it.

Patrick Norton No but I kept thinking of like, when you mentioned library, I kept waiting to hear that he broke his glasses.

Leo Laporte Oh, actually that might be, I can’t remember. That’s a good point. What an irony, that would be irony, wouldn’t it?

Catherine Hall Harsh.

Patrick Norton No, that would be an episode of the Twilight Zone. I am still amused that you are talking about, like it’s a beautiful heroic, elegiac novel of gentle language, and you are like -- but it’s plague fiction.

Leo Laporte Yeah, love that plague fiction. Here, listen to a little bit.

“‘It can never happen!‘ -- as well say, ‘Because I have never broken my leg, my leg is unbreakable, ‘ or ‘Because I’ve never died, I am immortal.‘ One thinks first of some great plague of insects, locusts or grasshoppers, when the species suddenly increases out of all proportion...“

Let me tell you, you are going to get pulled into this book and you are not...

Jason Calacanis Can we just cancel TWiT and we’ll go listen.

Leo Laporte You are not going to want to stop. This is recommended as one of the all-time great science fiction books, not very well known. I was blown away, I gave it to my daughter after I read it, I told her -- because she wants to learn about sci-fi.

Brian Brushwood You know Jason was joking like, let’s just quit the show and actually just listen but that happens to me all the time. I get pulled into the audible vortex where it’s like I’ll just listen to like -- must do dishes...

Leo Laporte It’s actually good for doing dishes to, I might say.

Jason Calacanis One thing I listened to, it’s my little recommendation. We Can Remember It For You Wholesale, from the...

Brian Brushwood Oh the Philip K. Dick, Minority Report and other stories. You know what movie that became. We can remember it.

Leo Laporte Total Recall.

Jason Calacanis There you go, we have a nerd. These Philip K. Dick audio books are fantastic because you see some of the films that are made out of them, even Blade Runner, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep. The books are so much different than the movies and there are so much more interesting aspects to it, like listening to Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, which I listened to on the way back from Sundance, it was a 10-hour drive which is awesome because there was just so much more in the book than there is in the film obviously.

Brian Brushwood Hey Jason, actually I tried several. You know Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep became Blade Runner and I kid you not, I tried five full-times to watch Blade Runner and it was beautiful and gorgeous and I fell asleep every single time, and it wasn’t until I had read the original book, the Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, on audio book, which I think the version I read was performed by Calista Flockhart and I forget who the guy was.

Jason Calacanis Oh no, yeah. It was Calista Flockhart and...

Brian Brushwood It’s another famous guy.

Jason Calacanis It’s Matthew Modine.

Brian Brushwood Okay, but they were great and I got through the whole thing and you get to hear about, like the Kipplisation of the earth.

Jason Calacanis Yes Kipple…

Brian Brushwood I love that word Kipple, and as result after doing the book I was able to enjoy the movie so much more, it was alive and vibrant and I didn’t fall asleep.

Leo Laporte A little tip if you are searching for it on audible. They have renamed it Blade Runner, so that people could find it a little bit better.

Brian Brushwood Oh really.

Leo Laporte Yeah but -- so let’s give you two books. You get the two books with the platinum account. So you want to read two great science fiction books, Blade Runner by Philip K. Dick and Earth Abides, by George R. Stewart, and you get both of them free when you go to We highly encourage you to check it out, we thank you so much for the support. What is Kippling, what is the Kipple of the …

Jason Calacanis The first ,you have to understand the first law of Kipple, Kipple drives out non-kipple.

Catherine Hall Is that something from Fight Club?

Jason Calacanis Yes, what it is, is you remember the JR, the Sebastian character…

Leo Laporte Yes

Jason Calacanis

“These are my friends” 

Leo Laporte Yes

Jason Calacanis You know, the guy…

Leo Laporte Yes, “These are my friends”

Jason Calacanis

“You’re my best buddy, JR, you have to help us.” “Okay.” That guy was great. “I only – I don’t make their eyes.” What happen is in that building, there’s so much junk because everybody has left earth that they call it kipple, kipple is just collections of…

Leo Laporte Oh, collecting ,yes

Jason Calacanis Nothing and – so one person lives in an apartment building with 500 units, it’s filled with kipple. And the kipple just seems to accumulate and accumulate and it drives out non-kipple because…

Leo Laporte It sounds like my life…

Brian Brushwood If you’ve ever seen my garage, that’s all I think I, I walk out, I’m like.

Leo Laporte This building is full of kipple.

Jason Calacanis He basically saw that we were going to live in a society where consumption would be unabounded and therefore there would be more stuff than people

Leo Laporte Audible asked me –they wanted me to read a book, and they said what would you like to read and I said, I gave them a few choices, but I said what I’d really love to do is Phillip K. Dick’s short stories, but they have got them all, unfortunately

Brian Brushwood Yes, and they’re good.

Jason Calacanis I would listen to them by you.

Leo Laporte The ones they have are great.

Jason Calacanis Actually, here’s a, -- why don’t we have the TWiT round table read a book, we’ll all take a different character…

Leo Laporte We could do that

Jason Calacanis That would be so awesome.

Leo Laporte Deal. That’s a great idea

Unknown Speaker I’ve always wanted to do that

Jason Calacanis So great

Leo Laporte I’ve always wanted to do the radio theatre thing

Unknown Speaker Yes

Leo Laporte So if we can find something that we have the rights to, I will invite you all back. And we will do a show in here.

Brian Brushwood

That would be awesome, an old time radio, with…

Jason Calacanis Why don’t we do Great Expectations?

Leo Laporte Yes. Great Expectations is public domain, we could do that, sure. How long would that take?

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) We’d need lots of wine.

Leo Laporte Yes, of non-stop reading. So I just also want to thank Garry’s Wine, they’re providing the wine for the show today and We have a couple of wines, which you liked, Kiki, you decided you like the red better

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) I liked the, yes, the red just really hit me, I like it.

Catherine Hall I really like it.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Very Tasty.

Catherine Hall I love the red. It’s really good.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) And it’s free.

Leo Laporte And Brian, are you going to make it unanimous?

Brian Brushwood Yes, the red is excellent… I haven’t tried it against anything but…

Leo Laporte Well I’ve been drinking the Wallflower Sauvignon blanc, it’s a little sweet but I am finding it refreshing.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) It is refreshing. This is a good…

Leo Laporte But you like the cab.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Yeah, this is a good, deep taste, I love cabs.

Catherine Hall There’s some depth to this one, it’s good.

Leo Laporte Yes, we will – and Gary recommended that one highly. So I thought…

Catherine Hall I just have a book on tape comment

Leo Laporte Yes, yes

Catherine Hall Well I started doing this myself and, I have to say it’s actually quite amazing. Because times like, I was driving home from San Francisco the other day and there was tons of traffic.

Leo Laporte It’s a life saver…

Catherine Hall And I started to get annoyed, and then I was like, oh, you know, I just listen to my book on tape and it sounds, like, silly, or whatever, but it really, I don’t know , it’s like you can learn…

Brian Brushwood You know you got the bug bad when you started looking forward to traffic. You’re like, oh, sweet…

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Do I have a long drive…

Jason Calacanis That’s it, now it’s this week in Audible?

Leo Laporte Well we are not talking about…

Jason Calacanis

This week in kipple.

Leo Laporte We are talking about books. We are not talking about…

Jason Calacanis I have a great idea, Leo

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) There was somebody who mentioned Hot Zone, it’s another plague book…

Jason Calacanis We’re going to do this week in Audible

Unknown Speaker Yes

Jason Calacanis Like for 30 minutes after the show, that would be like, we’re going to charge them eight times whatever the sponsorship…

Leo Laporte $1 million

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) That’s what I feel like…

Leo Laporte There’s the businessman…

Catherine Hall I liked him in Austin Powers

Unknown Speaker That’s we can…

Leo Laporte And am I Dr. Evil?

Catherine Hall No I am, look, I am sitting here with your dog…

Leo Laporte Oh, you are petting the dog, like Dr. Evil does…

Catherine Hall I’m like the silent Dr. Evil

Leo Laporte The most dangerous type

Catherine Hall He’s evil…

Leo Laporte All right, so let’s keep pack to the news stories; there are quite a few. I’m going to mention the Microsoft and Apple results. Microsoft’s – Microsoft show’s its first ever revenue decline, profits down 32%. The first quarterly revenue loss in 23 years as a public company, but they met Wall Street’s expectations and the price went up.

Brian Brushwood That was the funny part because I clicked on the link and it says Microsoft’s shares jumped.

Leo Laporte They jumped, how can you lose – all right you’re the business man Jason, why is that good news?

Jason Calacanis Yes, I don’t know exactly – not losing as much as – probably was that people expected them to lose more. Typically when that happens you have – Microsoft is a blue-chip now, you have to remember. This is not like a growth stock, so people who own it own a lot of it. So, it’s not like – and it hasn’t really – in terms of the range it has traded in, it’s traded sideways for over five years.

Leo Laporte It’s really been stagnant for so long, hasn’t it?

Jason Calacanis Yes, I mean, the problem is it makes so much money, it’s so predictable as a business. And there are some signs of weakening now, though with Windows 7 and the Vista whole debacle. And then you have Apple actually getting some market share, and then you have netbooks cutting in and people are like – what’s the Linux operating system wrapper.

Leo Laporte Ubuntu, oh ubi?

Jason Calacanis Ubuntu is now actually maybe you could use it. So, they got a lot of challenges.

Leo Laporte So, Microsoft; its first down quarter in 23 years; Apple posts its best second quarter earnings ever.

Brian Brushwood And fires 10% of retail full-time employees.

Leo Laporte Maybe that’s why. Actually, Mac sales down 12% so it was really on the iPhone and the iPod that they made so much money. They sold 2.22 million Macs for the quarter, 11 million iPods, 3.79 million iPhones. That’s in three months, that’s double the number it sold a year ago. I mean it really was an iPhone win.

Patrick Norton What happened to the recession? I mean, this is what I found puzzling about Apple’s results is you would think an iPhone is the most unnecessary thing you could possibly buy in a down market. Where are people getting the money for this if everybody is losing their jobs? Who are these three million people buying iPhones?

Leo Laporte Well, first of all maybe you could explain this to me, I don’t want to sound callous but everybody is not losing their jobs. What is unemployment at, 8.5?

Catherine Hall Well actually it’s 16%.

Jason Calacanis Well the real number is probably like 14.

Dr. Kiki Is it 16?

Catherine Hall 16% in California.

Leo Laporte If you – underemployed, and state by state, not looking...

Jason Calacanis Yeah; stopped looking, people who stop looking. So it’s a lot people and also people have this collective belt tightening, that’s been going on.

Leo Laporte Well that’s what I’m seeing is this kind of psychology you feel guilty about spending.

Jason Calacanis But you know what, I think the iPhone is so beautiful that it actually transcends recessionary –

Leo Laporte Gets over your guilt. What we –

Brian Brushwood We saw that before. Last time, and it was a technology thing last time. In the great depression when people defaulted on their loans and they came and they started confiscating stuff, people would give up their refrigerators before they gave up their radios.

Leo Laporte They kept the radio.

Brian Brushwood Yes.

Leo Laporte I’ll eat warm food but give me Li'l Abner.

Brian Brushwood That’s right.

Leo Laporte Or whoever it was.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) And people also went to the movies, so there’s the entertainment aspect –

Leo Laporte Movies were huge.

Catherine Hall And – but also the radio is probably the first time that people were really connected to what was going on at the time. And so, there’s the news and the iPhone does that now.

Brian Brushwood Think about it – if you have to take away your iPhone it’s not really the piece of equipment you’re worried about. That’s my connection to all my friends –

Leo Laporte The phone is the least of it isn’t it?

Brian Brushwood Yeah, exactly that’s my twitterfeed, that’s my FriendFeed, that’s my connection to the outside world.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) It’s my Google, it’s everything.

Catherine Hall Oh I think, too –

Brian Brushwood Well, it’s also – sorry, go ahead, Catherine.

Catherine Hall Oh! I was going to say, I mean, going back to what you said about buyer’s remorse, I think because it’s a tool that we can use for our businesses and communication, our psyche allows us to purchase it.

Leo Laporte It’s justifiable.

Catherine Hall Exactly.

Leo Laporte Yes, yes, Patrick?

Patrick Norton I mean, the iPhone’s hit Wal-Mart. It’s scaled probably better than any cellphone in probably a decade in terms of gathering market share. It’s popularized, it’s available and people – there’s also especially younger generations, they spend – younger kids spend a huge amount of money on cellphones monthly without thinking twice about it.

I mean it’s amazing actually, it’s – when you look at numbers of somebody in their thirties or forties or fifties, on what they spend on apps or songs or ringtones versus what somebody, an average teenager or somebody in their early twenties is spending on cellphones. It’s just considered a necessity and they’ve scaled it out. The price is down, you can pick one up for $200, they’re in Wal-Mart, it’s just hugely popular.

Oh by the way, the whole refrigerator thing, people gave up their refrigerators because they couldn’t carry them in the car with them to the next place.

Jason Calacanis On their way out to pick grapes.

Patrick Norton Well there’s also – but the other thing is that also the refrigerator was not nearly as entrenched in culture with – none of us, most of us can’t imagine life without a refrigerator, everybody in the 1920’s could pretty much imagine life without a refrigerator.

Dr. Kiki They had ice boxes and –

Patrick Norton It’s still – but it’s sill, you know what I mean, they had ice boxes ergo they could get rid of the refrigerator.

Dr. Kiki They didn’t need a refrigerator.

Patrick Norton Yes, but I mean, ice boxes still require money and they required a weekly delivery or daily semi-weekly delivery from an ice man; that costs money.

Leo Laporte Get this statistic, India in March, 15.6 million new cellphone users in March.

Catherine Hall And India, they don’t have refrigerators.

Leo Laporte They don’t?

Catherine Hall I am serious.

Brian Brushwood But they have cellphones now.

Catherine Hall It’s really – yes, I have been to India, they do not – they just – and it’s amazing to me that they have dairy products and they don’t – like, we feel like we need to have refrigerators for everything. You really don’t need them for everything.

Leo Laporte It’s a very American thing, the refrigerator.

Dr. Kiki If you are going to get things fresh, if you’re going to use things within a certain period time, the refrigerator just extends the period of time that things stay good. It decreases the rate of death.

Leo Laporte They also – and Alan Birchell’s pointing this out in our FriendFeed conversation, they also don’t have landlines in India. So, I mean –

Catherine Hall So, there you go.

Leo Laporte This is a lifeline.

Jason Calacanis They’re skipping –

Catherine Hall But what’s the population of India?

Brian Brushwood But also they are kind of leap frogging over, a lot of people are giving up their landlines here in the United States. They are just leap frogging straight to...

Patrick Norton Well no, it costs like an order – more than an order of magnitude less to install cell towers than it does to involve landlines. So for most of the third world cell phones are almost exclusively what’s being going out for the last decade.

The other thing is like 15 million people, isn’t that like, what, 1.5% of the population?

Catherine Hall Yes, India is huge.

Patrick Norton There’s a billion people in India, at least.

Brian Brushwood This reminds me the book The World is Flat, where he talks about the side-effect of – we know, we all grumble, grumble about the outsourcing of jobs to India but the – the other side of the coin is that we are creating another middle class over there and they are going to be buying Windows XP and Vista and Windows 7.

Leo Laporte I’m just glad they have a middle class is we don’t seem to have. Somebody –

Brian Brushwood We’re exporting our middle class over there!

Catherine Hall We have a huge middle class.

Leo Laporte It’s shrinking.

Jason Calacanis You know what’s interesting, did you see that the T-Mobile sold like a million G1s?

Leo Laporte That kind of surprised me, but it took the a long time. I mean, it wasn’t –

Jason Calacanis Six months. There was a first – it was the same period of time for the 3.7 million iPhones.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jason Calacanis And that’s with T-Mobile which is like the fourth –

Patrick Norton That also includes the inaugural adduction. Oh you mean – that includes like – how many iPhones did they sell in the first six months of the iPhone?

Leo Laporte Right.

Jason Calacanis They sold them out, I mean, I don’t know how many it was. I don’t think they said. But if you think about that, I mean, that’s with the fourth largest carrier, T-Mobile. And when they get that thing out to other platforms, I think that this is the sleeper. Google’s got a huge business here, huge.

Leo Laporte Apparently they are about to do a netbook, somebody is about to do a netbook with –

Jason Calacanis What this is – yes, what’s happening is they’re saying why should we give any money to Microsoft when we can get this for free?

Leo Laporte $250.

Patrick Norton Because there’s no power management? Battery life, power management which is always been miserable on anything other than OSX or Windows XP.

Jason Calacanis Spinning wheel of death...

Patrick Norton Excuse me?

Jason Calacanis Spinning wheel of death. I mean, you don’t have to deal with it freezing, blue screen.

Patrick Norton You know, I haven’t – what’s the last time you had a blue screen on Windows?

Jason Calacanis Five years ago when I last used it.

Patrick Norton I haven’t had one on Windows 7 yet. I haven’t had –

Jason Calacanis They day I uninstalled it!

Leo Laporte I have to say that the problem is that we haven’t really seen Android, at least I haven’t on a decent platform. This G1 has just not enough horsepower to really show what Android can do, but I’d love to see it on a netbook just to see how it does.

Patrick Norton The netbook that’s suppose to be the first one coming out is pretty – it’s basically a glorified cellphone. It is not a full Intel powered netbook.

Leo Laporte Is it ASUS? Who is making it?

Patrick Norton It was some fourth tier company I’d never heard of before.

Leo Laporte Interesting.

Brian Brushwood Well since we’re talking about netbooks, is there any interest in talking about Apple officially pooh-poohing on the netbook?

Leo Laporte Yes.

Patrick Norton You think they’re going to release WWDC?

Jason Calacanis Macbook’s coming out.

Leo Laporte They – it was Tim Cook in the Analysts Meeting. Now see, Tim is not like Jobs. If Jobs said that, I’d say oh yeah, they are definitely making one. But Tim Cook, is he – I mean you probably, I don’t know him, Jason, do you – you must know him? You know everybody.

Jason Calacanis I don’t – I think I’ve met him once but I don’t know him. But they are notorious for lying through their teeth, and then doing the exact opposite of what they say.

Leo Laporte Especially, well yeah, I mean Steve Jobs saying, “no one will ever want to watch video on a portable device”.

Jason Calacanis A conversation he told me was hysterical. But you know what the thing about netbooks is, I think this is another sleeper and I think I talked about this a year ago on TWiT. In Japan, do you know how much a netbook costs in Japan?

Leo Laporte Uh-uh.

Jason Calacanis $1.

Leo Laporte What? Oh, because they are subsidized by the carrier.

Jason Calacanis Yes, walk in and if you buy a $25 or a $35 data plan with 3G, you get a $500 Dell.

Leo Laporte That’s happening in the States. Verizon are selling a $50 netbook, as long as you sign up for two years. That’s happening in the States already.

Patrick Norton At what, 60, $75 a month for the plan? For the “unlimited plan” that’s capped at 5 gigabytes?

Leo Laporte That’s really not, yeah.

Brian Brushwood Well, that actually ties into my little conspiracy theory is that, obviously Apple bought all those touch screens a while back, and there was conjectures that it was all about a netbook. I wonder if they’re just going to still essentially have a Netbook, but not call it a Netbook, call it an Always On Connected Tablet or something like that.

Leo Laporte Yes, I …

Leo Laporte It’s June, we’re all agreed, right? June; netbook. and Steve Jobs, okay so here is the deal.

Brian Brushwood Surprise guest?

Leo Laporte Yes, Phil Schiller is doing the speech at WWDC, they talk blah blah blah blah. And then Phil Schiller says, oh, one more thing, and out walks Steve Jobs with a netbook.

Brian Brushwood Completely ripped and buffed.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Brian Brushwood Half robotic, shooting lasers.

Jason Calacanis Yes!

Brian Brushwood Pow pow pow!

Leo Laporte I am back!

Brian Brushwood Pow pow pow!

Jason Calacanis I’m back, mofos.

Leo Laporte That’s my plan.

Jason Calacanis How do you like me now, dog? How do you like my little bit of plastic?

Catherine Hall Ooh, I totally want Steve Jobs in the remake of RoboCop.

Leo Laporte Yes, you asked for a Netbook, here is. I am The Jobs.

Brian Brushwood Oh, and one more thing, it also detects swine flu!

Jason Calacanis Aw hell.

Leo Laporte That’s our, that’s my vote anyway, I don’t know, maybe that’s wishful, a little bit of wishful thinking.

Jason Calacanis I can guarantee right now they will launch a netbook, whether they are consciously going to do it or not, because they have no choice. These things are so good and so cheap, if I was with this Windows ad campaign, they need to say, get Windows for $500, buy three computers, buy one for everybody in the family or buy one Mac.

Leo Laporte Right. And they are not going far enough, they are selling this crappy HP Notebooks instead of saying, what are you talking about $1,000? Here’s three Notebooks for 999!

Jason Calacanis That’s what they should be doing, they should say, we’re – “Hi, we’re the Calacanises”, and “Hi, we’re the Laportes”.

Leo Laporte “Hi, we’re the Calacanises”?

Jason Calacanis “And we were going to buy one $2,000 MacBook tower, but instead we decided to buy each member of the family four $500 netbooks. F you Apple.” Boom. That’s what – if I was a CEO of Microsoft, that’s what I would –

Leo Laporte It’s a new reality show. “Hi, we’re the Calacanises”, come into our home.

Leo Laporte We have many Notebooks, some of them are very small.

Jason Calacanis Very nice.

Leo Laporte Very nice.

Jason Calacanis We play Doom.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Jason Calacanis At the LAN party.

Leo Laporte Here’s one running Android. Well, I would love to see a tablet from Apple, I think a tablet from Apple is a great idea. But they did, you’re right, they said, Tim Cook said, this is crappy, who would want a crappy computer like this, we wouldn’t sell it because it’s just so junky. But what’s setting it up is, however, but –

Brian Brushwood You know what people do want?

Leo Laporte What they would like is –

Brian Brushwood Is something that fills this niche.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Brian Brushwood But has better processing power.

Leo Laporte What if –

Brian Brushwood More powerful.

Leo Laporte What if you could get one that really was nice?

Patrick Norton iPhone with a bigger screen that will actually use a keyboard and a decent processor. I would actually, I would consider that.

Catherine Hall Yes.

Patrick Norton About 1,000 times more than I would consider the Air.

Leo Laporte I think Kiki would French kiss it actually.

Brian Brushwood If this were to happen, do you know who should you be worried about it is the Amazon Kindle. Because everything I hear about the Kindle, the thing I am least interested in is using it to read books or hearing it do robo-speech to laboriously read something to me. But the idea of something that’s got an always on data connection pre-paid, that gets me automatic content download, if it was like that but beautiful like a giant iPhone –

Patrick Norton Won’t happen. Can’t happen.

Brian Brushwood All did was surf the web and I could see everything online…

Patrick Norton Can’t happen, Brian.

Leo Laporte Why can’t it happen? What’s wrong with it Patrick?

Patrick Norton There’s two issues there, one is the only reason that Whispernet can work is because they have occasional use of relatively small downloads, so they can scale it. They are basically paying nothing, because a consumer account, barring some of the, one of those mystical Apple negotiations of a better deal than anyone else gets, basically unless the new – unless the Apple netbook is essentially sold as a device like an iPhone, they are not going to get a deal on the – you’re not going to get – you are not going to pay $250 or $500 for something and get lifetime free wireless. Which is one of the, which is why –

Brian Brushwood But I tell you, I would spend $350 or whatever, and tack on, I don’t know $20 extra a month to add it to my collection.

Patrick Norton It’s $60. The problem is it‘s going to be…

Leo Laporte It doesn’t have to be $60 though, Patrick, does it?

Patrick Norton Well, think about it this way, what are you paying for your iPhone? You’re paying for your plan plus an additional $35 a month. So okay, so how are you going to, how are they going to get around the, so that’s like almost $100, if you have a cheap plan, it’s still $75 a month. So let’s say they take out the cell phone, the take the cell phone number away from it, they make a data device, what’s going to make them want to go lower than the $60 a month they already get for a 5 gigabyte capped “unlimited” account?

And even without that, the thing that makes the battery life work on the Kindles, which is like 90% of what makes [audio gap] them great is the fact that they pop, basically the E Ink changes the display to the new configuration and then it stops using power. So effectively, they have no power draw compared to a traditional computer, or a computer that you’d use to browse the web or anything. If it wasn’t for that, the Kindle would have a battery back on it like this thick to give two weeks of reading.

Leo Laporte Yes, yes.

Patrick Norton You’d basically have it attached to a car battery.

Brian Brushwood You know what I would do? Is I would totally buy something that was like a a jumbo iPhone, and actually had a dock for you to lock-in your iPhone into or something.

Patrick Norton Right.

Brian Brushwood That would be good, and through which piggy back on that data connection, that’d be kind of cool.

Leo Laporte I think Apple might surprise everybody and just do another iPhone, and not do a tablet, not do anything bigger. With – on the premise that this is enough. I mean, look they just sold, what, how many millions of them in three months? I mean, this, for many people this is enough.

Brian Brushwood What about the screens they bought though?

Patrick Norton Well, how big were those screens?

Brian Brushwood 12” touch screens.

Leo Laporte They weren’t that big.

Brian Brushwood Or 10.5”, whatever it was.

Leo Laporte They bought – supposedly, according to the EE Times or one of the Taiwanese electronics news things they supposedly bought these. But I wouldn’t be surprised to see – I think we are all assuming Apple’s going to do this; Apple, you never can assume anything.

Brian Brushwood That’s the problem, is they have set such a precedent of blowing us away out of nowhere.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Brian Brushwood That it’s like, when are they going to resurrect people, come on Apple, hurry up.

Leo Laporte And they may not need to, that’s the point, is that they may be very happy with how the iPhone is selling.

Dr. Kiki Uh-huh.

Leo Laporte And by the way, who needs a tablet that you can kill a baby by shaking it with, right? I mean, where is the, where is the….

Jason Calacanis God Almighty, what a bunch of gotcha.

Leo Laporte So what happened there?

Dr. Kiki Was that honestly an application?

Leo Laporte Yes.

Jason Calacanis It was, yes. So basically, somebody created an offensive application, I have seen –

Leo Laporte Really offensive!

Jason Calacanis Where you basically shake a baby, it’s actually a really horrible thing. Obviously, shaken baby syndrome; very dangerous. Obviously, abusing kids; it happens. Not funny, even in a CollegeHumor type of way, not that they did it. But it’s just all around bad. So somehow, somebody let it slide through, meaning –

Leo Laporte There is a lot of pressure, they’ve got 35,000 applications, a lot of pressure.

Jason Calacanis I don’t think they are even looking, I think they are probably just going down a page, looking at the name of it and just going, check, check, check, go.

Leo Laporte I think they’re looking. They didn’t look at that one, but I do think they’re looking. I know a lot of good iPhone applications, great iPhone applications, that are still on hold, that people can’t get it in the store. There’s one guy I know wrote an application that I would love to see that is a – it’s a Netflix application that allows you to manage your Netflix on the iPhone, wouldn’t that be cool?

Dr. Kiki That’ll be great.

Brian Brushwood And it’s just waiting in queue?

Leo Laporte It’s just waiting in the queue, it’s not out still.

Jason Calacanis What they need to do is, they need to have two, two types of applications, one are certified, one are not certified. Anybody can make an uncertified application, and you can buy through the iTunes Store, it doesn’t have the certified logo on it. Certified applications don’t come up in search, certified applications have a big roadblock; this is not certified, it could destroy your computer, at your own risk. You know, massive two or three roadblock kind of situation; are you sure you want to install –

Leo Laporte Here is my question, this is interesting, I was watching a – The History Channel documentary on the computing in the ‘80s, and they brought up the specter of Atari. Remember Atari 2600, king of the world, greatest – everybody was buying it, they were under $200, great games, but Atari said, Nolan Bushnell I think said quite admirably, we will make open system and let anybody develop games for it. So many crappy games came out, it not only – it killed the platform, and not only were people getting, “what is this game?”, but they actually had to kill the 2600, they had to bulldoze cartridges because there were so many bad cartridges.

Nintendo with the NES took a look at this and said, woah, wait a minute, we can’t do that, and they were the ones who said we have to approve and license every single game. Apple’s iTunes Store is exactly that same model. Now, does that make sense in the day and age of the internet where information is almost perfect? Or…

Brian Brushwood This is, this is really tough for me because both of you guys sounded like geniuses, I am just like, oh, Jason’s so right, no Leo is so right.

Leo Laporte Well, it may be that the times have changed, the internet – what would have saved the 2600 is if there were a better communication system among customers and they could have said, “oh, whatever you do, don’t buy that Dig Dug cartridge, it’s a piece of crap”, then those things may not have killed the 2600. But at that time, there was –

Jason Calacanis I don’t think that was the sole thing that killed it though. It may not –

Leo Laporte Oh, it’s well – no it killed it, it killed it. And Nintendo succeeded because they did the exact opposite, they said you may not make a game for the NES unless we say so. And everybody bought the NES because they knew that every game was at least going to be playable.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) I think it’s really important for a company to have the certification of products that come out, that apply to their products. So, that the way that the iPhone apps are working, I mean, those are iPhone – like they’re related to the iPhone. The potential of something like the shaken baby app coming out, that has a –

Leo Laporte That’s an aberration, we can admit that.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) No, but it has – it’s an aberration but it has a trickle back effect to the image of the company and the way that you see it.

Leo Laporte Well that’s true, yes.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) And so, as the company that is – this is Apple, this is iPhone, this is their entire image, and so they want to control that.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) And I think that Jason’s is right in the fact that maybe their own little directory of iPhone apps, sure these are certified, these are the things that we agree are awesome products that we want to have affiliated with us. But then maybe allow other products to be created but not certified, and you can have your shaken baby or like, shoot the dog or whatever it happens to be.

Leo Laporte Well, that system exists already with jail broken iPhones. And I have to say a lot of the applications are…

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Right, but not have it like destroy the warranty though.

Catherine Hall But isn’t that what Apple’s like base – like their brand name’s based on, is that everything works, sort of thing…

Leo Laporte Exactly.

Catherine Hall I mean isn’t that against their branding if you start introducing applications and other things that work with their products.

Leo Laporte That’s the point.

Patrick Norton Yeah, I’m going to say, I’m always inherently bummed to see somebody screwed over ,you know, just on poor taste, like, I mean this was taken off because it was in poor taste and that can be a very person by person basis and whether or not this is a good or bad app, obviously…

Leo Laporte I’ll give you another one, let’s give you another one and then you could judge it on this, okay. There was an application where you could select a political figure, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, George Bush have them bouncing on a trampoline in the Oval Office and doing back flips and I think if Hillary did it her skirt would go up or something. But anyway, the -- Apple said no, we’ll not allow you to sell this in the iTunes Store because it is disrespectful to elected officials.

Patrick Norton Wow.

Leo Laporte Yeah, use that one as your example, everybody says shaken baby is…

Patrick Norton Right, right, right, well and that’s just it – what I was going to say is I’m always bummed to see something wiped out just for being in poor taste because that’s a person by person. But it’s very consistent with what everything Apple’s done so far, I’m not going to be too harsh on them. They’re playing by the same rules they have always played by.

Leo Laporte So you agree with Catherine and you agree too that this is their business model.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Yeah, it’s their brand.

Patrick Norton Yeah, it’s a private business, they do whatever they want.

Leo Laporte Well, they of course can do it. Yeah, but we can…

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) And then we can go and we can tell dead baby jokes and have our poor taste and…

Leo Laporte We don’t tell dead baby jokes.

Patrick Norton Wow, there’s the confession. You heard it straight from Dr. Kiki. Headline tomorrow, Dr. Kiki loves dead baby jokes.

Leo Laporte You know that’s actually our new show is Dr. Kiki’s dead baby jokes. That was the name you were going to come up with…

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) That’s the name I came up with.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I thought so, yeah it’s exciting, good.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) An hour a week, dead baby jokes.

Patrick Norton Not sponsored by Apple.

Dr. Kiki No.

Leo Laporte Go ahead Jason, just ignore these kids.

Jason Calacanis When I’m the reason you know something is wrong with the show, really wrong, I don’t know who these people you have in the studio are but I love them. Seriously, this is a big problem for Apple actually because they what they are doing is they are setting themselves up in this anti-trust situation again. And they don’t have market share so they can sort of play a game with PC market share about not having hardware run on OS10. But in iPhone they are going to have a monopoly and the same thing with iTunes and so this is really stupid of them to take this sort of, we’re going to be the judge of everything, they should have a certified group but then have one that’s not certified. But the crazy thing is I don’t know if you guys know, but I was officially elected chairman of the Internet.

Leo Laporte Congratulations, I’ve been wondering who’s running this.

Jason Calacanis I’ve actually, because, I know I’m the chairman of the Internet because I get all these emails from all these crazy people who would tell me....

Leo Laporte Now that you’re in charge, let’s fix this, yeah.

Jason Calacanis And I get all these things to, yeah. But one of them [indiscernible] I’ve been getting an email from somebody who is involved in a project about shaken baby syndrome and all this stuff. So he’s writing me these long emails about, oh my God, Apple is the worst company in the world. So, now they want Tim Cook to attend a two hour panel discussions about prevention of abused head trauma at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill on May 6th. They want him to you know like – work directly to get the people who downloaded this and have an intervention with them and the guy’s like, “What do you think, Jason?” and I’m like – and I wrote him, I said, I think you’re leveraging their stupid mistake in like a really heavy handed way. And it makes you look like you’re trying to manipulate the system in a really cheap…

Leo Laporte It’s extortion, yeah.

Jason Calacanis Because Apple is a good company that made a stupid mistake and then apologised. What more do you want? And he said well they have to do more. And I’m like, why you emailing me I know I’m the chairman of the Interwebs. But as chairman of the Interwebs this is not an appropriate way, you have to actually fill out the form 4097B and you have to challenge the Interweb standards of shaken baby syndrome. And I, just unbelievable, like this like eight page letter of everything Apple must do.

Leo Laporte Apple dodged a big bullet thouh, because you they’re -- on Thursday they sold their one billionth application in the App Store.

Jason Calacanis Yes.

Leo Laporte If it had been shaken baby, I think Brian Brushwood played this out.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) That would have been PR disaster.

Leo Laporte It could have been so much worse.

Brian Brushwood And the one billionth app is…

Jason Calacanis And the one billionth and one application…

Leo Laporte The one billionth was a free app called Bump that I guess lets you copy your iPod touch contacts over to your iPhone or something like that. But it was a free application, which is probably not what Apple would have liked. The winner is a 13 year old kid. He’s going to get $10,000 worth of iPod songs. That’s worth 10,000 songs, right. Depends on what you buy.

Brian Brushwood Almost enough to fill up his iPod.

Leo Laporte And he gets a MacBook Pro.

Jason Calacanis He actually declined the $10,000 iTunes gift certificate. And said I have a million songs from Pirate Bay, thanks very much though.

Leo Laporte I don’t really need that. Yeah, let’s talk about the Pirate Bay judgement. This is kind of interesting. We talked last about the fact that the two founders of Pirate Bay were guilty -- vewy ewy (sic) guilty by a Swedish court that said that this is piracy, even though you are just running a search engine, you don’t actually host any pirated files those, Torrentz point to, for the most part, the illegal files. So you’re guilty, they fined them a couple of million dollars and a year in jail. Now, they are appealing. But now comes news that the judge who sentenced them has some ties to some copyright organizations.

Patrick Norton You know what this is like, this is like watching a concert and it’s the most hilariously awesome circus you’ve ever seen and the show’s over and everyone’s still going nuts and somebody walks on stage holding up a finger, like oh, you want one more? And we’re like, yeah…

Leo Laporte This will not end.

Jason Calacanis Well they had -- they are also appealing, I don’t think I’m going to say right now, 70% chance these guys are not going to jail. People are protesting over there and it’s a very liberal society and…

Leo Laporte Well, this gives them a handle if they are going to overturn it. This gives them a handle. The judge would have to be…

Patrick Norton This doesn’t give them a handle, this gives them a baseball bat and a backhoe and a [indiscernible] I mean this is – is Nostrum, who’s the judge, is a member of the Swedish Copyright Association, and something else I’ve never heard of which is the Swedish Association for Industrial Legal Protection, which just would look awesome on a T-shirt. He’s so – but the judge serves in the Swedish Copyright Association with the lawyers for the plaintiff. So he’s in an association with the lawyers for the plaintiff and the quote – it’s a great quote on the CNET story, it’s “every time I take…” somebody has to do the Swedish chef on this one.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Are you trying to be Swedish again?

Leo Laporte I got into trouble last for doing it. But I’ll do it for you Patrick, because I love you man.

Patrick Norton I work with a Swede; she loves the Swedish chef humour.

Leo Laporte Every time I the case, I evaluate it for consider myself having a conflict of interest.

Catherine Hall That’s like a mix between a Swedish and Stephen Hawking.

Leo Laporte In this case I didn’t find out to have one so I think its okay.

Patrick Norton I think the judge is about to get his ass handed to him.

Jason Calacanis Well if you think you didn’t have a conflict then we -- sorry we brought it up.

Leo Laporte Yeah, yeah, okay you’re right, your right, no problem. That’s kind of, I think it’s not so bad being a member of those organisations. But really, if you’re serving on the board with the plaintiff’s attorneys, that would seem to be a conflict of interest.

Brian Brushwood I don’t know if he was serving on the board or they are just merely members of same association. But it’s obvious that the judge has a bias to the copyright organisations.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I would say so.

Brian Brushwood I don’t think copyrights are bad thing and it’s really – it’s a really interesting freedom of speech versus the Pirate Bay guys obviously want to destroy copyright and destroy all copy protection and encourage as much file trading as possible.

Leo Laporte Catherine, you are a photographer and of course one of the issues photographers face these days is getting ripped off on their images. How would you feel if your images were on Pirate Bay? Not the images themselves, just the Torrentz. Are these guys – should they go to jail. It’s a tough one, isn’t it? It’s not obvious.

Catherine Hall It is, yeah, it’s definitely…

Leo Laporte I think the damage is minimal, is I guess what I would say. That’d be my thought anyway.

Catherine Hall Well I don’t know how to answer that because I feel a conflict with that a lot. You know as far as where the boundary is and when you put the -- stuff on the Internet, it’s sort of out there.

Leo Laporte Well now, okay in the defence of the movie companies, they didn’t put anything on the Internet. It’s people like Brian Brushwood did that.

Brian Brushwood What?

Leo Laporte They just put a movie out and somebody else took the DVD and put it on.

Patrick Norton Or in some cases some of their own employees or sub-contractors took a version movie and made it available. Which is I – whoever did this with the Wolverine movie. I mean most of the time they watermark this stuff so they can identify the original source. I can’t imagine what they are going to do to that individual or company.

Leo Laporte I just don’t think that Pirate Bay – well there’s two things I think, one is they are a search engine, what’s -- who’s next, Google? You can search for Torrentz on Google.

Patrick Norton Let me, let me sort of like take a step back from what I was saying before is one, yeah I don’t think, I don’t think linking in to Torrent site should be illegal. I don’t think linking to illegal code should be illegal, but the – what’s great about the Pirate Bay guys is that they worked so hard to establish themselves as such a huge target.

Leo Laporte I know.

Patrick Norton And they have, unlike people -- because there were people who were talking for a long time like yeah we’re going to set up a test case for the DMCA. So it can go the Supreme Court and it be struck down as being unconstitutional and then it’s like – every time a case comes up that might actually get anywhere near to the Supreme Court, everybody’s like oh yeah – did you know that copyright is provided for in the constitution but not fair use, maybe we shouldn’t take this to the Supreme Court and…

Leo Laporte Because they are afraid, they are afraid that the courts will set a precedent, that doesn’t exist right, now in favor of fair use.

Patrick Norton Yeah, because the precedent, basically the fundamental precedent for copyright is like, oh yeah, it’s kind of in the constitution to encourage development of technology and stuff, but fair use is not – fair use is an accepted thing and fair use has been a rubber blanket that’s been stretched in some interesting ways but it’s – I still think the DMCA is a miserable law that should be stomped into submission, but – there’s not a lot of legal grounds to work with that and so much of what people do that violates the DMCA is basically avoiding paying for something that somebody else created.

Leo Laporte That’ why I asked Catherine, because actually we are all content creators, unlike Catherine though we put our stuff on the net and say take it, take it, please take it.

Patrick Norton Well, in some cases though, like when my wedding pictures were put up on your website, somebody copied all of them off your website, some guy in Oklahoma uses them, or did, I have checked recently uses them gather website hits that direct people to his eBay’s sell site.

Leo Laporte Oh, I am sorry.

Patrick Norton Hey, there is nothing we can do about it because they were all posted on your website with a copy left or creative commons. So, it’s – it’s like if people…

Brian Brushwood Leo looks so regretful dude, he’s so bummed.

Leo Laporte That is one more reason, Patrick has many reasons to hate me. It’s just one more reason, just add it to the pile.

Patrick Norton It’s great because at some point, it’s actually, it’s given me, so what I said to my wife one day is look, some day we are going to be driving on I40, we are going to be in Oklahoma, we are going to be in one of those points where we’re like, okay it’s only 38 miles to the next Indian casino, because there’s like an Indian casino every 8 feet on I40 in Oklahoma and we are going to go visit this guy and it’s going to be awesome. So, I am going to knock on the front door of his house and it would be like, hey, I wanted to ask you about the pictures and I just want to watch the facial reaction, maybe we will video tape it, put it online, maybe it will do something on YouTube and I will share his love right back with him, it’ll be epically cool.

Brian Brushwood It will be great when you start making too much money off that content, he will come knocking on your door saying he never signed a release.

Leo Laporte I have to say that most of the time I get in trouble, it’s for stuff like that where I instantly just thought, oh everybody will want to see this and post stuff up there.

Brian Brushwood But, it’s the internet, it’s the way it works, it is the ultimate social tool for sharing – and some people don’t like having their stuff shared, just, maybe the pictures, whatever – somebody -- I have met kids that are like in little Indie bands that are like, yeah, we’ve sold like 800 seven inchers and there has been like – we looked at one of the Torrents, there’s been about 75,000 downloads. So, we could like all quit our jobs working the graveyard shift at 7/11 if we got like 4% of the revenue, like…

Leo Laporte I would say that’s revenue they’d never have gotten.

Brian Brushwood Well, is it or isn’t it, right because it’s like if there was, if they had a medium for distributing those albums where they could get some, or may be if just people weren’t scumbags about taking stuff that they wouldn’t pay for otherwise. It’s shameful that so many people consider it their deity-given right.

Leo Laporte I think really that the failing there is that the kids working in the 7/11 weren’t creative enough about how to use this notoriety that they generated.

Patrick Norton This was also at a stage where the file trading was fairly new and – it’s like – this was like peer-to-peer sharing pre BitTorrent, I shouldn’t have said Torrent,. They basically were able to track down a ridiculous number of downloads and it’s like, yeah. So, the onus is on them to be creative about something they never asked to be distributed on the internet, which is like kind of shameful. On the flip side, the internet, it’s still a very wild west kind of thing. So, the difficulty that you were having Catherine of kind of saying how I feel about it is, probably we all have, of saying what’s the answer to this, I don’t know.

Catherine Hall I think too like, when it comes to sharing and the Internet and all that, there is certain issue of it’s bound to happen but as long as like credit is given, like for me for example, people posted my images, as long as my name is associated with the image – but then there’s been situations where I made a research guide and this guy copied the whole thing and blacked out where my copyright was. And distributed it and then he tried to tell me he didn’t realize it was wrong and I was like, well when you are covering the copyright did that maybe occur to you, that’s why you were doing it.

Leo Laporte Why else did you cover the copyright.

Catherine Hall That made me really, really, really upset. But then I have seen other people post my images but they put my name with it and it like directs people to my site and that’s fine.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) There is also the image, the instance of whether or not they are gaining financially from your work and giving credit or not, or not giving you kickback from using your [indiscernible] .

Leo Laporte I think the word is royalties but I guess kickback instead.

Catherine Hall And that was one of the reasons why I got so upset with this one situation is he was distributing this to students in his workshops and so he was profiting on my work and that was indifferent.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) That’s different from just maybe taking it and sharing it and saying, I found this really awesome guide and Catherine Hall came up it and I want to share it with you.

Leo Laporte That’s actually actionable, fire up the lawyers; take all of his lenses.

Jason Calacanis There’s a pretty easy way to deal with this, I think. If you look at television shows. which were like the bread and butter of the Pirate Bay for a long time, the TV shows are not their bread and butter any more because Hulu’s out and it’s much easier to watch it on Hulu and..

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Or on the network website.

Jason Calacanis Yeah, or on ABC’s website and so the movies of the people who are suffering from this, why are the movies suffering from it, because they put DRM on stuff, because they don’t make stuff available in HD, because they have Windows. You just have to throw these ideas out of the window and make these things available to consumers for a reasonable price and with advertising and that will be fine. They don’t want to do that, so until they do they are going to play this cat and mouse game, what they should do is they should sell these licenses, say if I was the studio head, I would say to the Pirate Bay guys, okay I will let you do what you are doing, underneath every single BitTorrent I want a thing that explains to people that are going to go to jail if they download this and here are people who have and links to the cases and that we will prosecute them.

And then I want to the left of it the streaming version that says $0.99, click here to do it legally and get the DVD and they see all the legal options and I would say to the Pirate guys we will drop the case if you give us the website. So, if anybody does these kind of things, they build a big enough website, the movie producers should take the Pirate Bay over, let these guys go free, they [indiscernible] and then replace all the Torrent with the same exact file with advertisements in them and they would instantly have a billion dollar business. Thank you.

Brian Brushwood Aren’t the Pirate Bay guys just going to start hosting their servers in China or somewhere?

Leo Laporte Yeah, they are still doing it, I mean that’s not, that’s the point, they say in fact on the...

Brian Brushwood I actually, I think it would be awesome if the studios did that, like next to a torrent had to the $0.99 download button.

Leo Laporte I think that’s a great idea but that’s what I am saying is, instead of going [indiscernible] and being frustrated and going to the lawyers, maybe there is a way to make something out of this and be creative about it.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) But the $0.99 download isn’t going to happen, I mean they are going, if they are going to come out looking at it for profit they are not going to do it for $0.99, they are going to be like oh, the cost of going to a movie…

Leo Laporte But we shouldn’t though, they need to be more

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) And so suddenly you are paying $10 for something that’s not a theatre experience aren’t going to pay for it.

Brian Brushwood But it’s not about, it’s not about, it’s basically about at least attempting to recoup some of the loss, may be nobody who downloaded that video is going to spend 10 bucks for a seat.

Jason Calacanis [Indiscernible] are in China or they are in places where they can’t get the films anyway, so the statistics of how many things were downloaded, a lot of them were downloaded overseas.

Leo Laporte But revenue on 10% of theft stream is better than revenue on 0% of a theft stream.

Jason Calacanis I think you basically have to herd these cats to the right place, China is getting very legitimate and the cost of DVD in China is down to like 2 or $3 and software the same thing, Microsoft is charging less for licenses there. If -- most people over there are stealing their Oracle license or stealing their Windows licenses, the way it works is, as I was told by people who do business over there, the local rep from Microsoft or whoever comes and says we know that you are stealing, you have 18 thousand servers, what can you pay, can you pay anything, and the guy’s like well, they say pay $50,000 a year. That same software might cost 5 million in the US. And the guy says, you know what, alright we will give you the fifty, you are being reasonable. So, actually the software industry is taking a really cool approach to which is let’s lead the horse to water and let’s see if it drinks and they just slowly are doing that, nobody wants to break the law and nobody wants lawsuits, just give people a decent price and give it to them the way they want it, if they want to download it, let them download it. If they want to stream it, let them stream it. Be happy they are interested in your content and the big battle they have is that their time is going to video games, time is going to blogs, time is going to podcasting. They’ve got to fight the real enemy. They are fighting their own customers; that’s not the enemy. The enemy is the other creative content producers...

Leo Laporte In the long run, that’s the problem, isn’t? Yeah.

Brian Brushwood One footnote to what –

Jason Calacanis Yeah, they are so stupid, fighting like...

Leo Laporte Right.

Jason Calacanis ...they are fighting on this front where –

Leo Laporte Fighting with customers, it –

Catherine Hall And that’s just not a way to do business.

Leo Laporte No.

Brian Brushwood As a footnote to this, this is very similar to what went – at the end of the 90s with mp3s. Everyone was freaking out, nobody is buying CDs anymore and they fought, fought, fought, fought, fought it. And then finally they realized, oh wait; this is opening up all kinds of new revenue streams. You know now we are selling ringtones, ringtones are a giant percentage of money that content manufacturers in music make –

Patrick Norton No they’re not. Not a giant percentage. They’re are giant – source of revenue, but compared to CD sales they were, I think –

Leo Laporte Yeah, they make a lot of money on something they weren’t making any money on. So, I mean...

Patrick Norton Yeah but it’s – what’s that line that the newspapers guys keep coming with where it’s “trading analogue dollars for digital cents”? I am not sure which of the publishers said that and I mean, I think additional revenue streams are great but I think everything’s going to be scaling back. I mean is there going to be a $5 million action film that’s going to wow us as much as $100 million action film?

Leo Laporte Well, if there is demand for action films, then somebody is going to make a $100 million action film. And you know what, if people are too cheap and they want – and they watch everything on Hulu and YouTube, then they won’t be. And you know what, there’s not going to be newspapers in about five years. That’s just the way it is, not because people don’t want newspapers but because the economics don’t make any sense. That’s just the way it is.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) And I think that it – honestly, I don’t think that’s – I actually, I am one of the people who doesn’t think that’s actually true. I think we are not going to see big newspapers. We are going to see small local newspapers and there are models that are actually starting to work in terms of local ad sales and running local news and so I think that we are going to see newspapers but not the big ones. I mean the big national, international news. That’s going to be gotten online.

Patrick Norton Where are you are actually seeing –

Brian Brushwood That’s why Jay Leno is going to the 10 o’clock hour from the 11 o’clock hours because it’s so much cheaper just to have him there, and plus also that niche of high-quality drama is being filled by networks like FX with shows like The Shield and Breaking Bad and Mad Men.

Jason Calacanis The Shield is awesome. What a great show.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) And people are paying for it.

Leo Laporte Did you guys see this on Boing Boing? This is an article from the New York Times; “Music pirates in Canada. American publishers say they are suffering by copyright violations from Canadian pirates.” This is published in the New York Times of June 13th 1897. 1897, there are publishing house is in Canada that are taking these legitimate – publishing music, I guess, it’s music and lyrics.

Jason Calacanis Canadians.

Leo Laporte Those Canadians.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Is that what started all the jokes?

Leo Laporte That’s it, blame Canada. “There are sold from 2 to $0.05 a copy even though in the States they sell from 20 to $0.40 a copy. Publishers estimate fully five million copies of songs were printed and sold in the month of May.” Those Canadians are putting the song publishing industry out of business!

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) And?

Leo Laporte In other words, it’s never changed.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Nope.

Leo Laporte And it didn’t put music out of business.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) No, it just changed. The more things change, the more they same; there is truth in that. Yeah, there is truth.

Leo Laporte I want to take a little break. Speaking of change, a new CEO at MySpace, Jason has some advice. Is it a him or her? It’s a her, right?

Jason Calacanis No, it’s Owen Van Natta.

Leo Laporte Oh, that’s a guy.

Jason Calacanis The guy who was COO of Facebook and then one of the CEO jobs, Zuckerberg wouldn’t do it and they got in a little tiff and –

Leo Laporte All right, Jason will explain what he should do to fix the problem whatever that is. Before we do that though, I want to mention my friends at GoToMyPC. Citrix, the folks that do those great remote access programs like GoToMeeting they do. This is the easiest, the best, the most secure, the simplest to use remote access ever and I have tried them all. GoToMyPC, I want you to try it for free for 30 days, go to for a free 30-day trial. Here is how easy it is before I am done talking. You will have it installed on your computer and then you can go home. You could take some time off, you could travel, you could see the world, you can enjoy life knowing, safe and secure in the knowledge that anytime you need that file, you got to check the inbox or you need access to that office computer, you can get there. Don’t be chained to your office computer, release yourself. Brian, you’ve probably done some escape work.

Brian Brushwood Totally, you are talking about from GoToMyPC, right?

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Brian Brushwood This thing has saved me so many times it’s unreal. I was – literally I was in, I was in LA for a show and I got a call from some TV group that wanted to – a demo reel, and I didn’t have the specific bit they wanted on me. I’m like well it’s back – and I was talking about having my wife overnight a DVD and all this staff and then finally and believe it or not I was like no, no, no I am hearing all the time about the GoToMyPC free 30-day trial. I signed up, I told my wife how to install it on the computer.

Leo Laporte It’s that easy folks!

Brian Brushwood It really was. She walked – it was on next thing I know, and I actually I opened up the computer, I opened up the editing program, I edited together a specific demo reel from them and then FTPed it up to their server, sent them a link.

Leo Laporte That’s very cool.

Brian Brushwood I had it done in an hour.

Leo Laporte I didn’t even know that when I was going to you, I thought I was going to ask you about handcuffs. So I am really glad you know about it.

Brian Brushwood No, I love it.

Leo Laporte He’s listened to the ads and used it, you can too. It’s free for 30 days, give it a try. Secure, efficient, you can even listen to audio. You could surf the net from a shady internet cafe in Murmansk. Wherever you are,, can get you to your office computer, Mac or Windows. It’s really great, give it a try. We thank them so much for their support of this WEEK in TECH. I didn’t even know that when I went to you, Brian Brushwood.

Brian Brushwood Oh no. Yeah, in fact actually like just the cost of just one overnight of a DVD.

Leo Laporte It’s worth it.

Brian Brushwood Oh yeah, yeah totally.

Leo Laporte Well, especially since you’re paid nothing.

Brian Brushwood Yeah.

Leo Laporte So, I get Jason’s e-mail newsletter. I, and what is it 15,000? How many people?

Jason Calacanis Yeah, 14,000 or something.

Leo Laporte It’s awesome.

Jason Calacanis

Leo Laporte It’s still open to the public. You don’t have to be like a special.

Jason Calacanis No, I mean, it’s a secret url;

Leo Laporte And do you have ads for escorts on Jason’s list or is that –

Jason Calacanis We have a casual encounters list, yeah of course. Casual characters off the list.

Leo Laporte It’s a mailing list. And Jason how, what, about once a week you write a very thoughtful long –

Jason Calacanis Once every three weeks.

Leo Laporte Three weeks okay. Instead of the blog.

Jason Calacanis Yeah, I gave up on the blog because there was just too many, too much noise and nonsense.

Leo Laporte Yeah, a little like TWiT. So your last post, and I don’t even know if you knew that MySpace was looking for a new CEO when you wrote it, but your last post said here is what we – MySpace needs to do to save itself.

Jason Calacanis I had a little bit of inside information there, but yeah my name came up in the talk about which is very flattering.

Leo Laporte Would you have taken the job?

Jason Calacanis How do I say this? You know I am very committed to Mahalo obviously, and I think that has a lot more upside than MySpace frankly and it’s more exciting for me to be at Mahalo.

Leo Laporte Let’s get it telling, that’s really telling in fact.

Jason Calacanis And that’s no dig to MySpace. I think MySpace has a lot of fundamental problems and I think that most people would say the best days are behind it and it’s going to be on the decline. Therefore, the chances of it recovering are 50-50 maybe or the chances of it catching up to Facebook are 20%. So, essentially it’s just going to be years and years of pain. It’s sort of like taking over as AOLs CEO when the dialup business is going away. You are basically going to be dealing with bad news your whole life.

Leo Laporte Is there any upside at any point or is it just all the way downhill?

Jason Calacanis No, I mean there could upsides, I mean what basically has to happen is they have this big asset which is eroding. I mean it’s actually, I shouldn’t say it’s eroding. It’s got modest growth compared to Facebook which has – and Twitter which have massive growth. Obviously, MySpace does have a lot of users.

Leo Laporte Of the three; MySpace, Facebook or Twitter, which would you like to own?

Jason Calacanis Currently today, I would like to own Facebook but I think ultimately Twitter is going to win.

Leo Laporte Really? Wow.

Jason Calacanis Yeah, I do. I will tell you why –

Brian Brushwood When it saves us from the Swine flu.

Jason Calacanis I think what Twitter is going for. Twitter’s elegant simplicity means everybody can use it and so I fully believe every single person on the planet will have a Twitter account who is online. Whether they are...

Leo Laporte That’s probably true, isn’t it? That’s probably true.

Jason Calacanis Whether they’re in India – if they are in India on a cell phone they are going to have it. They are going to get on Twitter.

Leo Laporte Right; why not?

Jason Calacanis Because their friends have it; it’s going to spread like a virus. And that will be the global rolodex and that will be the equivalent of your phone number. People...

Leo Laporte It is, it’s digital dial tone.

Jason Calacanis It’s your phone number now, especially with the direct thing. Like many times I will be going to be meeting with somebody and they hit – they direct message be through Twitter instead of texting my phone number and I’m like “why did you do that?” Well pretty simple; they don’t have to remember my phone number. They know it’s going to come to my phone, it’s a direct message; boom.

Leo Laporte That’s really interesting.

Jason Calacanis I don’t look at Twitter as much as a blogging service as I do a namespace like Novell Network or any of these other things. So I think they are going to win that race. I don’t think anybody can stop them and you are going to log in to the majority of your sites and get the majority of your direct communication through Twitter. And that’s pretty powerful, and you don’t want to have worry about monetizing it, so I think the Twitter guys have a brand for the ages.

Leo Laporte Well you do have to worry about monetizing it but you were just saying that you can –

Jason Calacanis Not really. You know we have such scale – it’s people.

Leo Laporte It will take care of itself.

Jason Calacanis There are people at AOL who I would sometimes shake my head and go, I can’t believe this person is making money. You know this like, mid level manager running some group. But it’s like well, if you point the AOL homepage at a terrible product and it gets half a million people a day it’s going to be a viable business.

Brian Brushwood So I am surprised at the three options you gave Jason Calacanis, because all the scuttlebutt was that he was going to take over at Geocities.

Jason Calacanis They actually wanted me at the Geocity shop. They were like we can shut this off, or give it to Jason to run.

Leo Laporte You are kidding.

Jason Calacanis And they were like –

Leo Laporte Well I know Miller’s a friend of yours, Miller bought Weblogs.

Jason Calacanis Yeah, he’s a friend of mine, and he’s on the board of Mahalo, and News Corp, he’s an investor in Mahalo, so it’s all very incestuous. I don’t think I would want the job to be totally honest, because I love what I’m doing right now. My optimal size for running a company is I like 20 to 30 people, 40 people. And I wouldn’t want to have that many – when I was at AOL I had over 100 people reporting to me, and it was just not as much fun.

Leo Laporte So what would you do if you were in charge of MySpace? How could – can it be saved? Or is it just a long, grim slide down.

Jason Calacanis No, it can be saved. I think what you have to do is you’re going to have to be bold, and you’re going to have to invest. And the problem is –

Leo Laporte And what would you invest it? Would you buy Twitter?

Jason Calacanis Well, you won’t be able to. If Microsoft can’t buy Twitter, then –

Leo Laporte Twitter is now clearly not for sale. If your vision of what Twitter is –

Jason Calacanis Not for sale.

Leo Laporte It’s not for sale.

Jason Calacanis No way.

Leo Laporte At no price.

Jason Calacanis They have had offers that are very significant and they said no. So –

Leo Laporte It would be crazy to sell at this point.

Jason Calacanis Actually, my advice to him would be, if he gets over a $1 billion, to sell it. But that’s only because my belief is that the multi-billion dollar businesses don’t come along that often and if you do get one, selling it’s not a bad option. However, I don’t think he is in it for the money. He made enough off of the last company.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jason Calacanis So, that’s a mitigating factor.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jason Calacanis I think, it’s about legacy for him. So, if this is your second homerun, its legacy is what’s important, not the amount of money you make.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jason Calacanis So, he is not going to. If it’s a first time entrepreneur I’d say, like, sell immediately! Like Zuckerberg is crazy for not selling to Microsoft. According to information I have, like, offered close to $10 million – $10 billion for that company. They invested at $15 billion, but they wanted to buy it in the high billions, like 7, 8, 9 billon from what I heard from VCs. .

Leo Laporte Should Mark have sold it at that price? It sounds like yes.

Jason Calacanis Absolutely.

Leo Laporte That’s crazy.

Jason Calacanis But you know what, he’s another one who’s kooky. He thinks he is the next Bill Gates and he doesn’t want to do anything but build a $100 billion company.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jason Calacanis But it’s very foolish when you are 24 years old to think like that in my mind, because you don’t have a chance to exit – the number of people in the world to had a chance to exit above $1 billion is like 10 people or 100 people, whatever it is. So, anyway, the things that MySpace should do is number one, I think mobile is the future of social networking. In Japan and Seoul, 90% of social networking occurs on your phone. Twitter is a good example of that, so I would just go absolutely crazy making a G1 application, Android application, iPhone applications, new applications.

Leo Laporte Mobile is the key.

Jason Calacanis And just try to win mobile and crush and like maybe buy that Loop stuff or copy it immediately and really start to get into mobile social networking. Mobile SMS.

Leo Laporte There is still an opportunity there, you think? It’s not –

Jason Calacanis Absolutely. In Tokyo, I was with Tyler. We are sitting on a train, we got five people on each bench next to us. Eight out of ten had their phones out and 8 out of 8 were doing something on a social network or 7 of 8 were doing something socially. You know, a game or email or that kind of stuff. And so that leads to the second thing, which is casual games make a lot of money, a lot of money. And they takes a lot of time. And who do you play games with? You play games with your friends, so a very natural fit and companies and Zhang and RockYou are crushing it. So, I would buy one of those companies or build a bunch of applications and just have tons of games inside of MySpace, that’s a no-brainer. And I would build some sort of a virtual currency inside of it and try to make money that way, because that’s how social networks make money.

Leo Laporte We are starting to lose your connection, Jason. I’m not sure what’s going on.

Jason Calacanis Sorry.

Leo Laporte But the gist is there, and I think to read more, subscribe. What is it?

Jason Calacanis Yeah.

Leo Laporte I think it’s very interesting though that there is still room in this mobile space, and yet you feel, and I think actually I have to agree with you, now that you have articulated it that way, that Twitter is the dial tone for the 21st century. That’s kind of an amazing thought.

Jason Calacanis It is.

Leo Laporte Well, others have said. Dave Winer said, oh no, there will be a thousand Twitters in a few years. He feels like every media company is going to create their own Twitter. You don’t think so?

Jason Calacanis No.

Patrick Norton Cause there’s thousand search engines, like two matter.

Leo Laporte Right.

Catherine Hall Yeah.

Brian Brushwood But isn’t there literally a million social networks with Ning now, didn’t they hit one million? Like literally there is one million MySpaces out there.

Leo Laporte That’s amazing. Yeah. Yeah, right.

Brian Brushwood But none of them – I guess, I don’t know, they are good like, for example, my friends run the website which is very targeted, very specific and they have a very passionate base, but there is no chance their website is going to threaten Facebook or MySpace anytime soon. Likewise, I don’t think Twitter is going to go away, so much as you may have micro-Twitters the way Ning has created these micro-MySpaces.

Leo Laporte Right, very interesting, I can hear the dinner bell ringing upstairs. That made you hungry, huh Patrick?

Patrick Norton Well, it just means if I want to see my child before he goes to sleep I got to head out soon.

Leo Laporte You go boy, it’s great to talk to you. Patrick Norton is the host of, and next time you come up and you join us in here in the studio, it’d be great to see you.

Patrick Norton I will. Good to talk to everybody.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Catherine Hall Bye Patrick.

Patrick Norton Bye.

Leo Laporte Jason Calacanis is Mr., that’s the place to go for Mahalo. Yes sir. And you are doing a new podcast called This Week in Startups.

Jason Calacanis It’s going to start on Friday and thank you for letting me use the name, you are very gracious about that. I know you don’t own it, but I did ask permission. Everybody should know that.

Leo Laporte That’s quite all right with me, yeah. I am glad you’re doing it. And Kevin Pollak’s show is now at 5 O’clock Pacific – Eastern.

Jason Calacanis 5 O’clock on Sundays, yeah.

Leo Laporte Every Sunday on UStream, is that where he is doing it.?

Jason Calacanis I think right now, it’s Stickam.

Leo Laporte Stickam, that’s right.

Jason Calacanis And then trying to get a sponsor and trying to get one of these guys to support it and yeah, so –

Leo Laporte So, that’s out of your studio?

Jason Calacanis Yeah, we have a studio here which basically – modeled it after yours and if you ever want to use it or anybody wants to use the studio, they can just email me We have a TriCaster. We’re, sort of – the idea is to let people use the studio to make shows and they give us a plug and that’s it.

Leo Laporte And when is your show, a week from – Friday?

Jason Calacanis It’s going to be out this Friday, 1 p.m. and my guest is going to be Brian Alvey, who was my partner on Weblogs Inc., and who is doing a new company called Crowd Fusion, which is like a crazy, crazy blog publishing system. So, it’s basically going to be a little intro from me, an interview with the guest and then some news in startup-companies specifically. So, not like tech news, like – we won’t talk about the iPhone but we will talk about here is a company, how they raised money, how they built their product. So it’s a little different than TWiT, I think.

Leo Laporte No, it sounds great. And of course, it’s 1 o’clock and you will be doing that on Stickam as well?

Jason Calacanis We will do, I think, Stickam, yeah. It’s not designed yet, we are designing a logo this week and we are just going to throw it together and see how it goes.

Leo Laporte Cool. That’s very exciting.

Jason Calacanis Very casual, yeah. And yeah, thanks for having me on.

Leo Laporte Always a pleasure. Love having you on.

Jason Calacanis Love having Audible.

Leo Laporte Audible loves you. Yes.

Jason Calacanis Love having – I actually registered

Leo Laporte You wasted no time.

Jason Calacanis If folks from Audible are listening, Leo and I are going to produce your show for you.

Leo Laporte We talked about it, actually.

Jason Calacanis We should do it, let’s give them a show. This Week in Audible.

Leo Laporte We talked about it. Next time come up and we will have some great wine from Gary’s Wine.

Jason Calacanis I like a little port, if that’s possible.

Leo Laporte We can do a port.

Jason Calacanis If we do a port and a dessert wine; I like the honey, sweetness kind of thing.

Leo Laporte You are a fan of the stickies.

Jason Calacanis I like the sticky, like honey.

Leo Laporte Kiki’s going “gak, gak…”

Jason Calacanis I like the port. I have been drinking port – my wife says I should drink a glass of red wine every night, because I am high stung…

Leo Laporte Port’s good.

Jason Calacanis Anxiety and stress and…

Leo Laporte I will tell you what, you come up here and we will have port and cigars. How about that?

Jason Calacanis Oh, I will bring some Cubans, or I should say –

Brian Brushwood And their cigars!

Leo Laporte Bring the Cubans and their cigars.

Jason Calacanis They’ll press the wine for us. No, I will bring some Cubans. Not Cubans, but they are very similar.

Leo Laporte Yeah, from the Dominican Republic, but Cuban seas.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Wink wink.

Leo Laporte Bring some Cubans. Thank you Jason.

Jason Calacanis Pleasure.

Leo Laporte Take care. Catherine Hall is a photographer, one of the best I’ve ever had the pleasure of working with. She is just brilliant and you can find her stuff on her website, and it was great having you in studio today.

Catherine Hall Thank you.

Leo Laporte Catherine was here for the radio show and we just said stick around for TWiT, and gave her some wine.

Catherine Hall He couldn’t get rid of me.

Leo Laporte That’s a pleasure; it’s really nice to have you in. Also, want to thank Brian Brushwood of Scam School fame

Brian Brushwood We got to get you outside of here to a bar. Teach you some scams.

Leo Laporte All right, I would love to do that. The old quarter through the bar trick or something like that, be really fun. And is the website

Brian Brushwood No “c” in shwood.

Leo Laporte I should have done everybody’s Twitter handle.

Brian Brushwood @shwood

Leo Laporte Yours is @shwood.

Brian Brushwood Yeah.

Leo Laporte Catherine is @catherine_hall.

Brian Brushwood K or C?

Catherine Hall C, like Catherine the great.

Leo Laporte Right. She is Catherine the great. Kiki is drkiki.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) I am.

Leo Laporte drkiki.

Catherine Hall drkiki.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) I like it.

Leo Laporte drkiki.

Brian Brushwood drkiki!

Catherine Hall drkiki!

Brian Brushwood Haha!

Leo Laporte Okay. I, Dr. Kiki. And she is also at

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) I am.

Leo Laporte And the host of This Week in Science and our newest host on This Week in Tech on the TWiT network, we’re going to do a science show starting live on TWiT TV, which would be every Thursday at 6 p.m. Eastern, 3 p.m. Pacific, which is 2000 UTC. And now ladies and gentlemen for the first time anywhere, except in her husband Marshall’s ear, the name of the show.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) It’s so exciting. Dr. Kiki’s Science Hour, with Leo Laporte.

Leo Laporte Well, with Leo Laporte, you can leave that part out, I don’t like him anyway. That’s good, Dr. Kiki’s Science Hour will make its debut on Thursday. I love that.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) We came up, I came up with all sorts of different names and I had this idea, I’ll keep science out of it, because I want to talk about just the way that…

Leo Laporte It’s all science.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Everything is science, but it’s just a way of looking at the world. But then I was like, you know, this is just really – people will get it. You want to describe what the show is about.

Leo Laporte Yes, I agree.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) It’s an hour of science, once a week. Science Hour. Yay!

Leo Laporte Couldn’t be better. And we will be talking about, I think, bird flu or rather swine flu this week, yeah?

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Yeah. And actually, I don’t know what...

Leo Laporte I have a friend who is an epidemiologist.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Oh, that will be fabulous. I was thinking that we could kind of temper that. Also, we could get an epidemiologist, maybe someone from the CDC or your friend.

Leo Laporte My friend, Bill Keen [ph]. He was my college roommate. He is the Director of Public Health for the state of Oregon. So, masters in public health and expert on parasitic diseases.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) I’m sure he’s got some info on viral.

Leo Laporte But he has also got a little swine flu.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Yeah.

Leo Laporte When the big tomato – problem with the tomatoes and the E. coli, he was interviewed everywhere.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Bacteria...

Leo Laporte I saw him on CNN and everywhere, so he is very active in this state – but a real expert in public health. He will have a lot to say.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) That would be good. I think it would –

Brian Brushwood I was going to ask you, do you think he gets excited when the – oh, good another disease!

Leo Laporte Let me tell you something –

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) I think no.

Leo Laporte I had Thanksgiving with him once and he started by saying “do you know how many bacterial infections you can get from a turkey?” You might know this is as a bird –

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Salmonella is the worst.

Leo Laporte It’s the worst. I got a little nervous when he started handling the turkey with a rubber glove after he it was cooked. He said these things are deadly. You could – it could kill you in so many ways.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) But enjoy your turkey!

Leo Laporte But enjoy your turkey. So, he – Bill Keen, we’ll see if we can get him on Thursday.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) That would be great.

Leo Laporte It would be really great to get him on.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) I was thinking also to add a little level of kind of the fun and where it could potentially go, Scott Ziegler has written a – his book –

Leo Laporte Perfect.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) His trilogy he is working on, most recent one, Contagious, that came out. It’s all about – I mean, it’d be really fun to get him on.

Leo Laporte Oh, this is going to be fun.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) I think I’m going to try and get in touch with him and see if he’ll be able to do it, so Scott if you are out there…

Leo Laporte And one thing we are going to really try to do on this show is take calls, so we will be using TalkShoe for that and so if you don’t have a TalkShoe account, you might want to find out about it., and we will be taking calls towards the end of the show. So, we will do about 40 minutes and then we will take some calls.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Yeah, we will probably do a lead in, background, then the discussion with everyone who is either here or calling in virtually. And then get everybody else to be involved in the show. I mean, I think one of the big aspects of this that I’m excited about for this show is being able to incorporate everybody’s questions, because I mean, like we said science is a way of looking at the world. Everybody is affected by how the world works. We are a part of it and so, let’s all –

Leo Laporte I’m excited.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Let’s all be involved.

Leo Laporte I’ve wanted to do a show about science for a long time. I can’t think of anybody better to do it with. And you are going to follow Maxwell’s House which is a show about getting deep into a single subject, and so it’s going to be a perfect – my idea of a well-spent Thursday afternoon.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Two hours of mad braininess.

Leo Laporte Brain expansion.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) Mad!

Leo Laporte Thank you, Kiki.

Dr. Kiki (Kirsten Sanford) You’re welcome.

Leo Laporte So great to have you. A reminder, we have got a TWiT Picks page, we invite you to visit I noticed Colleen picked the Android G1 phone yesterday. She says, warning, not intended for use by Apple fanboys. That’s why we love Colleen. Also, a reminder that our wine today and every week is brought to you by Gary’s Wine at We had a delicious Cab today that we all agreed was A+, the Innisfree Cabernet Sauvignon. You can find that at I thank you all for being here. Really great to talk to you, we will see you again next week, I hope. Another TWiT is in the can.

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