TWiT 204/Transcript

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Episode 204


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This is TWiT, this WEEK in TECH, Episode 204 for July 20, 2009, Taste Like Dirt.

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Leo Laporte It’s time for TWiT, the show that covers tech news and I’m back. I want to thank very heartily, very heartily, both Tom Merritt and John C. Dvorak who filled in while I was gone in China, and just say that I’m exhausted. You’re going to hear a very jet-lagged Leo Laporte.

But it won’t be just be me that’s jet-lagged because also joining us today on the show, Mr. Kevin Rose who is also – when did you get back, Kevin?

Kevin Rose Two days ago, but I am also jet-lagged and waking up at three in the morning and ready to sprint for some reason.

Leo Laporte Me too.

Kevin Rose It’s the weirdest thing.

Leo Laporte Me too. Two o’clock in the morning I’m going okay – well because it’s daytime.

Kevin Rose Yeah, and you’re like, you feel like you want to go outside and run then like an hour later, boom, you’re back in bed again. It’s the strangest thing.

Leo Laporte Also with us from the Houston Chronicle and always a welcome regular on the show, Dwight Silverman. Good to have you, Dwight.

Dwight Silverman Nice for you to have me, Mr. President.

Leo Laporte I’m the president. During my absence, without any intervention on my part I apparently was elected the President of the Internet by – was it TechRepublic that did that?

Dwight Silverman Yes. Yes. I was surprised it wasn’t moot in the end because you know the 4chan’ers swarm those things.

Leo Laporte Yes, no, they didn’t know about it otherwise it would have been moot. So Molly Wood came on strong towards the end but I – you know, it’s ironic because I’m in China and I can’t even get online. So…

Kevin Rose The site was blocked?

Leo Laporte You know what was interesting, you didn’t bring a laptop, did you Kevin?

Kevin Rose No, I didn’t. Just the iPhone with data plan in case of emergencies.

Leo Laporte You did a very different thing. I did the tourist thing. I went to Beijing and Xi’an and I went to Guilin. You went on a tea tour.

Kevin Rose Yes I was in Beijing for a couple of days but then I flew into Kunming and then was out for a week and half travelling around in the Hunan Province.

Leo Laporte First of all; Beijing. Could you believe that city?

Kevin Rose Insane. You were like driving around and it was so modern and beautiful and Lamborghini dealerships and just – I can’t believe how – it just, it seems like you are in Los Angeles or something.

Leo Laporte I fully expected a bunch of people in Mao coats and Mao hats on bicycles jamming the street and, no this is – this is, yeah exactly, like LA or maybe even more vital. We stayed on Chang'an, which is the main drag just a couple of blocks from Tiananmen Square and went around the corner and it’s hopping. I feel like we’re in Times Square on a Friday night. Big – and big screens, a little Blade Runner-ish, because big screen ads everywhere, gigantic screens; McDonald's; Kentucky Fried Chicken, but right across the street from McDonald's there’s a booth with a guy selling deep fat fried scorpions.

Kevin Rose Right.

Leo Laporte It’s a wild country.

Kevin Rose It is.

Leo Laporte And a country on the move. I really, really enjoyed it. As I imagine you did. How – you were with farmers though. You were really in the countryside.

Kevin Rose Yes I mean we were in kind of the rain forest area just out in the middle of nowhere, about two days away from many major airport and just going around and kind of decompressing and meeting with different people that are creating different types of tea and going to tea factories and tasting tea and just relaxing.

Leo Laporte Did you have a translator with you? How’d you..?

Kevin Rose Yes, yes, we had a translator with us. So I was also with Tim Ferriss, who also speaks Chinese so that made it – or Mandarin, so made it easy.

Leo Laporte Oh that really – that helps a lot, yes. Wow that’s neat. What fun.

Kevin Rose It was fun. We both had a good time. It’s great. Had I known you were going to be up there, we would have met up, that’d be so crazy.

Leo Laporte No you were very far away. I mean it’s like being in California and New York. I mean…

Kevin Rose Yes I’m wondering if we were at Beijing at the same time.

Leo Laporte We might have been.

Kevin Rose Yeah I don’t know.

Leo Laporte I was in Beijing July 4, 5, 6 and 7.

Kevin Rose Ah, I think I was there the 5th.

Leo Laporte Oh man that would have been so funny. I kept looking for you. I kept thinking – I wonder if Kevin’s going to come around the corner and I’ll jump at him, I’ll… It was an amazing experience.

But yeah talking about censorship when we got there you couldn’t get to YouTube. By the time we left, because I think of the Uighur uprising they had blocked Twitter, FriendFeed, Facebook as well. And I don’t know if – you probably didn’t see any TV because – but CNN, if a story that they didn’t like came on, they just black it out.

Kevin Rose Yeah you know what the craziest thing was, is my friend Tim has his laptop with him. So he would turn on every once in a while and I had my iPhone with the data plan so I would jump on the iPhone and I could pull up my Twitter feed and access it just fine. But when I went to his laptop, because it was using HCGP and it wasn’t using the API. I couldn’t get to Twitter. So I could still access Twitter and Facebook through the API calls on my phone. It was just the normal web service that they were blocking.

Leo Laporte They figure it out eventually because it stopped working on the phone as well. You’re right.

Kevin Rose Oh did it?

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Kevin Rose Yeah that was strange. It was the weirdest things, because I was sitting here pulling it up and he was unable to get to it.

Leo Laporte Well in a way it’s real pat on the back for FriendFeed that they even heard of FriendFeed.

Kevin Rose Yeah.

Leo Laporte I was still able to – yeah, I know, isn’t that… I was still able to post a video to Twitter using a brand new service. See whenever there’s a – it takes them a while to figure out, there was a service called TWITREEL that lets you post videos so I was able to post that way and then I was using Posterous to post to YouTube. So I would email a video to Posterous and it would cross-post so they could block that. And that just shows you how impossible it – we saw this in Iran. You can’t block this stuff.

Kevin Rose Well you know what’s funny is I sent out – on our last stay there we did our little Tweet meet up and so I sent out a message saying ‘hey if anyone’s is in Beijing come out meet with us’ and about 15 people showed up, yet Twitter was being blocked and we asked them ‘well like how did you find out about this?’ And they’re like ‘oh that’s – you just have to know what you are doing.’

Leo Laporte Yes.

Kevin Rose Like –

Leo Laporte The geeks know.

Kevin Rose Yeah the geeks totally know how to do it. These guys are like ‘oh, we just used proxies and yeah it’s not a big deal.

Leo Laporte My sense – I’ll be curious if this is your sense – and we’ll talk about the news in just a bit, Dwight. Don’t worry. Dwight’s been the keeper of the news all this week because we haven’t paid any attention. There’s been a lot of –

Dwight Silverman Been holding down the fort.

Leo Laporte There’s quite a bit of news we’re going to talk about. But this is newsworthy too. I mean my sense of it was that the vast majority of the Chinese populace doesn’t really care as long as they’re on an economic upturn, which they seem to be despite the world – global meltdown. As long as everything ‘s going fine, they don’t care that they are not seeing that CNN story or missing Twitter or Facebook.

Kevin Rose I don’t think they even know though, because we asked our translator whether he was aware of blocking and he said ‘Well, I know they block pornography.’ And he was like – and there was a few other people on the tour that we asked about it and they were like ‘yeah well there’s just bad sites that they block’ It’s like – I’m like ‘well actually there’s normal sites that they block too’ and they didn’t seem to know or really care, which was weird to me.

Leo Laporte Well I think also the guides, I asked one of our guides about drug use and she said ‘I don’t – what do you mean?’ I said ‘marijuana.’ She said ‘I’ve never heard of marijuana.’ There’s a certain amount of intent – especially from the guides, intentional misrepresentation. However I think that – and you know I have to draw it parallel to the American public too, it’s not just not Chinese public, as long as everything is going fine, they don’t – who cares, so what? Big deal. You know ‘I got a car, I got a microwave, I’m fat and happy. I don’t care if I can’t get to Twitter’ But the truth is it doesn’t really think that much difference in terms of –

Kevin Rose It doesn’t matter. The geeks know how to get to it any way. We would have no problem there, Leo, I think we could get to all our favorite sites.

Leo Laporte Exactly, exactly.

Dwight Silverman But you would be state criminals.

Leo Laporte Well yeah that’s the other thing.

Kevin Rose That’s true.

Dwight Silverman That’s right.

Leo Laporte I have to say I love China and I really – it’s amazing what an economic tiger they are. Some say a paper tiger, but that’s a conversation for another time, but it is little scary when you think of the control that – these hidden – I mean these guys are basically hidden. There’s no cult. It’s not like the Mao cult where there’s pictures of them everywhere. I mean Jiang Zemin, people know who he is but you don’t get the sense of them being important in day-to-day life. The fact that they’re doing all this. I wonder if 4chan is blocked in China. I bet it is. Dvorak is, by the way., blocked.

Dwight Silverman Did you all see the pollution that’s supposed to be so bad there? Was it really as bad as..?

Kevin Rose Oh, yes.

Leo Laporte Horrible. Horrendous.

Dwight Silverman Oh really?

Leo Laporte In Beijing you can’t see five feet.

Kevin Rose Yes Beijing looked like – for the day that I was there it was 100 to 150 yards max and then it’s kind of – everything just disappears.

Leo Laporte And I’ve been told 400,000 people a year die of pollution related illnesses, chiefly lung disease. 400,000 a year.

Kevin Rose Yeah we were trying to fly from Kunming into Beijing and they actually delayed our flight by six hours because they said there’s certain pollution restrictions and they only allow so many planes in per day and they had already reached that level of pollution. So they had to hold off and delay our flight. It was crazy.

Leo Laporte So I have a little story to tell about AT&T, you saw that – did you see MG Siegler’s article in TechCrunch? How did he put it? AT&T, a steaming pile…

Dwight Silverman A big steaming pile of fail.

Leo Laporte …of fail. I – AT&T I brought the 100 megabyte international roaming data plan for $110, something like that, knowing that I was going to do a lot of blogging and posting and so forth. And I watched carefully my usage meter on the iPhone, because it’s five bucks a megabyte if you go over and I got to a 100.1 megabytes and I turned off 3G and turned off roaming. In fact I’m looking at my usage right now and even since I’ve come home it’s only gotten to like 103 megabytes. I called AT&T when I get back and they said ‘yeah it went to 251.’ The phone was off by 250% and I have a $750 bill and I don’t understand how come the phone – they even tell you to use the phone to watch your usage. So I have to – I’m with MG Siegler on this one. Not so happy.

Kevin Rose That’s strange.

Leo Laporte Not so happy. You didn’t use it much. You weren’t posting or anything.

Kevin Rose I did post some stuff. I was mostly exacting –

Leo Laporte Did you buy an international data plan?

Kevin Rose I don’t know. I didn’t set that up. Somebody else set that up for me. So –

Leo Laporte I’m sure they did. Because it’s very expensive otherwise.

Kevin Rose We have a – the cell phone’s all covered through work. So they set up all the plans and so I’m sure they did, yes.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Kevin Rose It’s probably the smart thing to do.

Leo Laporte All right let’s get to our tech stories. We got a lot of them. Some big stories while you and I were gone. I’m sure we covered this last week; Google’s new operating system, which got a lot of press for reasons I’m not fully clear about. That was one big story. Microsoft tried to counter with Office 2010, another big story. And then the quarterly results are starting to come out for the tech industry and a grim outlook there. But before we do all of that, I do want to mention our friends at Squarespace. I know you use Squarespace, Kevin, for your blog.

Kevin Rose I do indeed.

Leo Laporte Yes. I’m just blown away by these guys. They’re very smart. They know what they’re doing. We have a special deal, I think you do also on Diggnation. If you go to, you can get – well you can sign up and use it for free without a credit card anyway, but then if you decide to stick around, 10% off when you use the coupon code TWiT. How long have you been using Squarespace?

Kevin Rose Probably about two years now.

Leo Laporte What?

Kevin Rose Something like that.

Leo Laporte You’ve known about them that long?

Kevin Rose Well I just – they approached us a long time ago and the funny thing about it is you know, like you do on your show, we get a lot of sponsors that come in for an episode or two and then leave. And the Squarespace guys came in and they said ‘we want to show you the product that we’re working on.’ They really – they didn’t want us just to be reading copy, they actually wanted to show us their service.

Leo Laporte I was impressed. Yeah, yeah.

Kevin Rose Yeah they sat us down and they showed us what they had built and it was cool stuff and I had a few of my stories get on Digg and some on the other sites and it didn’t fall over and so I was pretty happy with that.

Leo Laporte Yeah you’re a good test for that.

Kevin Rose They were happy to have me tested about. I think they were a little worried the first time but they didn’t have any problems, so.

Leo Laporte They do this interesting kind of virtual server stuff that let’s them turn on bandwidth kind of at will. It’s all done with java and very slick, because you you’re not on a single server, you’re shared across the Squarespace kind of cloud and if they need more bandwidth they just respond instantly with it. So it’s really good for that kind of thing. If you are an existing blogger it includes complete import and export for WordPress, Blogger, movable type and type pad. Now when I say import and export that’s important. I don’t want you to feel like you’re in a roach motel, you can’t get out. So you can get your stuff in there, play with it amazing. Did you do your design or did they do one for you?

Kevin Rose I did my own design.

Leo Laporte Isn’t it cool how you can drag and drop stuff and…

Kevin Rose You should what they have coming. Have you seen their new stuff that’s going to be out? Well they have something coming really soon that’s going to be pretty – it sounds like I’m saying an ad but I’m not, I was actually in New York a couple of weeks ago and they showed me some of the stuff that they were working on.

Leo Laporte Dane and Anthony are really cool.

Kevin Rose Yeah. Absolutely.

Leo Laporte Really neat guys. Just impressive as heck. Well I mean that’s the ad. We don’t have to say much more. You could try it out by going to Give it a try, not just for blogs. You can – they have got forums, they have got photo galleries. Amber’s significant other Chris Dick uses it for – he’s a photographer, brilliant photographer, uses it for photo gallery. It is gorgeous. Google maps built in, amazing stats package and website tracking. You’re just going to love it. and for a 10% of your new account as well as use the TWiT coupon code and we thank them so much for supporting this WEEK in TECH. Well, I am the President of the Internet. So I don’t know – do I get any – I don’t think I get anything. I should point out that had you been nominated Kevin Rose it wouldn’t even have been close.

Kevin Rose Shall we be in your cabinet? Can I be the Vice President or..?

Leo Laporte Yeah what do you want?

Kevin Rose I don’t know. Something fun.

Leo Laporte You get anything you want. You don’t want to be in the State Department – you don’t want to be Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton right now. The U.S. Department of State is not allowed to use Firefox, they have to use Internet Explorer 6. They had a town hall meeting on Friday and Jim Finkle, one of the State Department – you know some guy, a worker bee, says ‘can you please let the staff use an alternative browser called Firefox?’

Dwight Silverman I love that they asked her about open source software.

Leo Laporte What did she say?

Dwight Silverman Well she didn’t answer it. She deferred it to somebody else who initially said ‘oh, there’s a cost issue with using Firefox’ at which point somebody pointed out ‘well you know it’s free?’ and I think –

Leo Laporte Well there is a cost issue, you have to have a corporation or business has to put it in their software.

Dwight Silverman There is. Make have to change like that, because it’s training and that type of thing.

Leo Laporte It’s cost millions, but the truth is IE is such a piece of crap. I mean, I you, know –

Kevin Rose There is a simple solution to this.

Leo Laporte What’s that?

Kevin Rose You just basically say if you’re smart enough to know how to install Firefox and use it, then you do so, right? Everyone else uses IE.

Leo Laporte You know they’re not going to do that. In fact with all of the break-ins and so forth and the security issues in the government, you know those machines – I hope those machines in the State Department are locked down. Man on the crew ship there was – basically they had no internet. There were six Windows machines that had – I don’t even know what version of Windows because it had an application running. It had – I thought ‘oh, good there’s a memory card slot on it, I can…’ but all you could do is put your card in there and, whatever, 30 bucks, send a postcard to somebody with a picture you pulled off the card. You couldn’t read or write. I wish you’d have been there Kevin you could have hacked into the darn thing. I couldn’t get any internet access at all.

Kevin Rose Did they not have wireless there?

Leo Laporte No this is a crappiest…

Kevin Rose Don’t say carnival.

Leo Laporte No it was worse than carnival. It was actually a step-down from carnival.

Kevin Rose What is – like? Festival?

Leo Laporte Costa. It’s like festival. I was on the Costa Crappica, I think was – no it was the worst cruise ship ever.

Dwight Silverman Did you say CostCo?

Leo Laporte CostCo. Might as well have been.

Leo Laporte Anyway if you – but it kept me off the internet, which was a little bit of a problem because I had four lectures to give about social media and iPhone apps and stuff. No internet access kind of hampered those, but that’s all right. Anyway what was I saying, oh locked down, I am sure the State Department’s pretty locked down. I would hope it is.

Dwight Silverman The guy that asked the question actually had come from a security agency where they were letting them use Firefox. So he had the argument that if we can use it over at the NSA or wherever it was…

Leo Laporte Wow!

Dwight Silverman …we should be able to use it here.

Leo Laporte Wow! I hope they get their – I hope they get their Firefox. Actually there was a big – wasn’t there a big hole in Firefox 3.5?

Dwight Silverman Yeah they released 3.5.1 this week and patched it. Originally it was going to come out about a week later but they rushed it out because of this flaw. It also fixed a problem where if you’re on a slower Windows machine when it started up it would sometimes take minutes for Firefox 3.5 to come up because it was scanning – in order to do some kind of randomization, it was scanning the – it was scanning temporary folders. And it would take time –

Leo Laporte Using it as random data or something?

Dwight Silverman Right, right. And so – on Windows – and so it was taking a while and they fixed that as well. But I also saw another story just today that said they – in 3.5.1 there’s another vulnerability and the exploit code has been released for it.

Leo Laporte Already?

Dwight Silverman Yes.

Leo Laporte Oh! Zero day stuff. Microsoft has a zero day exploit too. Microsoft pushed out – well it was patch Tuesday last Tuesday, Microsoft pushed out nine patches. But just to keep the hackers busy, left one open. Why not?

Dwight Silverman They always leave one on the table.

Leo Laporte Six of the nine were ranked critical, three were tagged as important, the kill bit turned on for the ActiveX controls, the Direct X ShowFix – the DirectShow X – DirectShow fix. But one is still open to exploit. So you figure out which one hackers, all you hacker kiddies. What you – are you a Safari user, Kevin, or do use IE – Firefox?

Kevin Rose You know I’m balancing back in between Chrome and Firefox.

Leo Laporte Chrome on the Windows side, not the..?

Kevin Rose On Mac.

Leo Laporte Oh!

Dwight Silverman That’s the Chromium beta, yes.

Leo Laporte Chromium. Is that stable? This is – because Google hasn’t released Chrome yet for the Mac but the source code’s open. So somebody has like done a compilation of it I guess.

Kevin Rose No this is directly from Google.

Leo Laporte It’s from Google? Chromium?

Kevin Rose Yep it’s Google Chrome. It’s just their beta version of it.

Leo Laporte Oh! All right.

Dwight Silverman They’re doing nightly builds and you can go in and dive in – I did a blog post on this, go and dive in and grab the nightly builds. Some of them are going to be a bit more stable than others. But I think, Kevin, if you download the beta doesn’t it refresh from the nightly builds every few days?

Kevin Rose It didn’t – you know I was always doing the check for update and I was having to go in and manually download it to get the latest build. But if you type in Google Chrome Mac it’s the first link – no, actually it’s not the first link, because the first link it’s saying put it in your email address. It’s the second link under Google Chrome Mac which takes you directly to what they’re calling the developer release.

Leo Laporte And you like it better than Safari or better than Firefox?

Kevin Rose It’s just really fast and snappy. I don’t know I am just playing around because I want to stay up with what all the kids are playing with nowadays.

Dwight Silverman Well. It doesn’t have bookmark.

Leo Laporte How does it feel not to be one of the kids anymore, Kevin?

Kevin Rose I know it’s weird. It’s like I am not in the loop anymore in some of this stuff and it’s killing me.

Leo Laporte Ah those kids don’t know anything, whippersnappers.

Dwight Silverman But it doesn’t have bookmark management. So you can’t pull up like a screen and manage your bookmarks. You can bookmark things but you can’t print, there’s a lot of things that it can’t do yet. But it’s really fast.

Kevin Rose Yes, I didn’t get flash working with it.

Dwight Silverman Flash too.

Leo Laporte Yes, flash doesn’t work on Google Chrome too. I have been pretty happy with Safari, Safari 4.0.2 now. They’ve done a couple of updates, there’s some pretty nasty bugs on Safari. But I just use Firefox because of all the add-ons that I – the extensions that I’m dependent on, I just can’t leave them behind. And 3.5 at first was very fast but does feel a little bit sluggish now and I don’t – and that’s on Mac, I don’t know why. Chrome is so snappy. It just feels snappy.

Kevin Rose It is. I think they did a hack on the Mac too. It’s weird, I’ve never seen the Chrome Doc icon bounce one time. It’s strange. I’m serious.

Leo Laporte It’s the appearance of speed.

Kevin Rose Yes, launch it and tell me if it bounces, I’ve never seen this happen.

Dwight Silverman Didn’t bounce.

Leo Laporte No bounce.

Kevin Rose Really? Isn’t that weird?

Dwight Silverman No bounce. Yeah.

Kevin Rose And I’ve been trying to trick it, I launched like five other things and then clicked Chrome last. I’m like, ‘okay, give me one bounce and it didn’t bounce’; a little hack.

Leo Laporte Ah you make me want to – this is good. This is like an ad for Chrome. So wait – I am sure they covered it last week. But what do you think about this Google OS? It was getting a lot of press. It was a huge story.

Kevin Rose There’s no even a screenshot right?

Leo Laporte It’s Linux, in fact this is what Bill Gates says. He says well ‘what’s the big deal. It’s a Linux distro basically.’

Dwight Silverman I saw somebody joking on Twitter that they created a prototype for it. They ran Ubuntu, deleted everything off the desktop but Firefox and now they have Chrome OS. That’s it.

Leo Laporte It’ll be a quick start although there are other quick start versions of Linux out there. Gates says “in some ways I am surprised people are acting like there’s something new. I mean, you’ve Android running on netbooks, it’s got a browser in it.” He says “the more vague Google is, the more interesting it is.” They’ve been pretty vague.

Dwight Silverman That’s Google’s secret for their PR.

Leo Laporte They got Apple quality PR on this.

Dwight Silverman Yes and it was weird because this was, as Kevin said, there’s no screenshots, there’s no detailed description of how it would work other than it’s a Linux kernel with a browser. This is kind of the description, sounds a lot like what Michael Arrington's was describing for whatever operating system he wants to use for the CrunchPad. But there’s – it’s all vapor. It’s total vaporware and the TechPress went crazy. And people – what it means and how important it is and you don’t know how important it is. You don’t know what it means, because you ain’t seen it yet.

Leo Laporte And it’s not going to be out until next year, right?

Dwight Silverman Yeah, late 2010.

Leo Laporte Late 2010? What?

Dwight Silverman Second half of 2010.

Leo Laporte Hey, you just said it. We could do a distro tomorrow. Just strip down a little Ubuntu, there’s a lot of choices out there.

In one respect though, this is sort of a coming of age for Linux, because Linux now is running in a lot more platform – it’s on – it’s the Google – I mean the Palm Pre is Linux. Android is Linux. We’re seeing more and more Linux in a lot of different forms, in a way too that users don’t really even know they’re using Linux.

Dwight Silverman Right, Linux has almost become the de facto embedded operating system. It’s kind of – it’s hidden. And that’s not necessarily a bad thing I think. I don’t think you should see the operating system really.

Leo Laporte Well and this is what Bill Gates is actually saying. He says really the browser is the OS and what does the browser mean? He says “It just shows that the word ‘browser’ has become a truly meaningless word”. What’s a browser? What’s not a browser? If you’re playing a movie is that a browser or not a browser? If you’re doing annotations is that a browser, if you are editing text is that a browser or not a browser?

Everything is browser-centric nowadays. That’s, I guess that’s his point.

Dwight Silverman That’s right and I think ultimately we’re moving towards where the computer is invisible anyway. Where you just get your data and you get the information you need and the computer itself, the device and kind of the trappings around it should be as out of the way as possible. I think that’s the kind of the long term.

Leo Laporte All I need is a browser really.

Dwight Silverman Right.

Leo Laporte Nowadays. I mean, that’s webOS – is just exactly what it sounds like. It’s a webOS. Are you Mac still, Kevin, or Windows mostly or..?

Kevin Rose I am Mac, I am almost, yeah I don’t have anything Windows at all. But I’m hoping that that Apple eventually decides to just to open the OS up and say it can run on any piece of hardware, you know?

Leo Laporte That would – I mean, everybody’s doing it.

Kevin Rose Allowed to run on netbooks, it just would be awesome.

Leo Laporte Right, everybody’s doing it anyway.

Kevin Rose Right, exactly.

Leo Laporte Pretty much – I think Colleen now has easily installed from the Leopard disks, on a variety on Hackintosh platforms and if you can install from the Leopard disk then you can update – it’s just as if it’s a real Mac.

Kevin Rose I just can’t imagine that Google OS being like a cool operating system. Like design wise they have their –

Leo Laporte Ugly.

Kevin Rose Their Head Designer Dough Bowman, he’s – he’s phenomenal. He actually left Google, I don’t know, maybe two or three months ago and I just don’t know who they have as the helm of design and I can’t imagine it being a cool slick OS.

Leo Laporte He left Google saying they know nothing about design and I can’t stand working for these guys, they’re bozos when it comes to design.

Dwight Silverman Because they’re all engineers. It’s engineer driven and design is considered something peripheral.

Leo Laporte Well, they certainly – I mean, the Google page is nice and clean and simple. But you’re right I don’t think they – Android doesn’t feel, for all of its promise, doesn’t feel like a cool operating system in any way.

Dwight Silverman No it feels kind of like – it’s kind of the OS/2 of operating systems.

Leo Laporte It is. OS/2 is a good – that’s a good analogy. The whippersnappers won’t get that. But that’s a good analogy.

Kevin Rose Hey, I remember OS/2, I love OS/2 – Warp. I installed that.

Leo Laporte Warp.

Dwight Silverman Warp.

Kevin Rose Yeah.

Dwight Silverman I remember when they called it Warp and everybody kind of went ‘uhhh…’

Leo Laporte That’s not a good name. It ran Windows ninety –

Kevin Rose I remember seeing that at COMDEX.

Leo Laporte Yeah it ran Windows 95, right? Wasn’t it, 95 or wasn’t – no it was 95.

Kevin Rose 3.1. Wasn’t that 3.1 back –

Leo Laporte Was it 3.1.?

Kevin Rose Yeah, it would allow you to emulate like 3.1 or something like that.

Leo Laporte Oh! Lord.

Dwight Silverman Slowly. Very slowly.

Kevin Rose Yeah very slowly.

Leo Laporte Let’s see here, we’re going to talk about – there’s so many stories, Amazon – speculation that – well there’s two huge Amazon stories. One, that they may buy Netflix. You think that’s credible, Kevin?

Kevin Rose I think they should buy Netflix. I think that Amazon, it makes sense for them, they’re in the data delivery business, Netflix is going all data for their shows and everything they’re doing with the streaming of the Xbox LIVE now.

Leo Laporte They’re really in the same business now that streaming is it.

Kevin Rose Absolutely.

Leo Laporte I mean on my Roku player, it’s Amazon and Netbox – Amazon and Netflix.

Kevin Rose Yeah.

Leo Laporte Unbox and Netbox, I mean, flix and unflix – anyway, it’s the same, it’s all the same. Except you have to buy the Amazon stuff and Netflix stuff is free. Of course I’m paying a monthly fee to them, so.

It would be interesting if they acquire them, does Amazon become as big and as strong and as powerful as the only other competition, which is iTunes?

Dwight Silverman I don’t think it puts them immediately up there because they – you still have to have the brand awareness of ‘all right, I am going to this instead of iTunes.’ Apple has a – because of the iPod and the iTunes platform being on so many computers and so many people are using it by default, I think they have a leg up. But it sure would be great to have that level of competition. And what was funny when this story broke every tech journalist was just slobbering over themselves to say ‘ohhh yeah let’s do this.’ Harry McCracken basically said – did a blog post and said ‘okay how can we make this happen?’ Even if it’s not real let’s make it happen.

And I think everybody loves the idea of Netflix and Amazon together. I love Amazon’s music service, Amazon Mp3.

Kevin Rose So do I.

Dwight Silverman It’s great.

Leo Laporte In fact, one of the free aps I was showing on the geek cruise something called advantageous which is iTunes plug-in that when you go, when to start to buy a song on iTunes it pops up, it’s available on Amazon, now that was more important when they started DRM on iTunes, but it’s, it’s just don’t forget you can get this on Amazon.

Kevin Rose I still think it’s important though because I wish that iTunes did MP3s and they don’t, they do those things like M4A now or whatever it is.

Leo Laporte AAC.

Kevin Rose Yeah it’s AAC but it’s, you can’t, you can’t play it on all your devices.

Leo Laporte A lot of players won’t do it, yeah.

Kevin Rose Yeah, exactly.

Leo Laporte We are going to talk about this Kindle thing, because this is a huge story and I will be very curious what your take is on this. Kevin Rose is here from and Diggnation and from the Houston Chronicle, Dwight Silverman and I want to talk about George Orwell in just a second, but I also, we have some wonderful sponsors as long as we talk about books. I want to mention and the Platinum deal from, Now, Kevin tell me you brought some audio books with you to China?

Kevin Rose [Indiscernible]

Leo Laporte I did, I loaded up and it was great.

Kevin Rose I brought Kindle stuff.

Leo Laporte You brought a Kindle?

Kevin Rose Yeah.

Leo Laporte Now the Kindle you can’t download in China.

Kevin Rose Yeah, I loaded up.

Leo Laporte I loaded up, I put a bunch of Chinese history books on my iPod from and I had some, I had some relaxing sci-fi on my Kindle, which I left on the airplane by the way. So whoever got my Kindle hope you enjoy it.

Dwight Silverman Oh no, you lost your Kindle.

Leo Laporte This is the second eBook reader I have left on a plane, but the one that, the thing that galls me is as I get off the plane in San Francisco, go through customs, immigration, I go oh my Kindle, I left it in the seat back. Actually I looked in my briefcase and it wasn’t there. I left it in the seat back. So I immediately go to the desk at Northwest and said it’s on the plane. They called, they said no. I haven’t heard back from them.

So either another passenger getting off the plane saw it and snagged it or somebody in the crew or the cleaning crew, somebody snagged it. So yeah, I got to buy the Kindle. At least they dropped the price to 299. It plays audible. I could have put some audible stuff on my Kindle getting back to audible in the sleaziest way possible. I could have played some audible stuff on my Kindle. Audible is a great place for your audio entertainment, your audio, not just your audio books but they have got comedy performances, radio shows, even podcasts, will give you a chance to sign up for the Platinum account. That’s my account, two books a month and you get the first two free. So there are a lot of choices if you go to Lot of books, 50,000 books now. One of the things Audible does that I love, they do a lot of pro bono stuff. They have been putting the Sotomayor confirmation hearings up for free day by day. They have got the first four days up there now. You can download them and listen to them. They have done this always in the past with convention speeches, inauguration speeches, all sorts of stuff. So it’s, it’s really a great place to get kind of pro bono stuff but I am going to recommend a book today. You know they are making a movie about Facebook. In fact you know who is making the movie is our friend from TriggerStreet, Dana Brunetti is producing this.

Kevin Rose Oh Really.

Leo Laporte Yeah and it’s based on this book by Ben Mezrich, The Accidental Billionaires is the founding of Facebook. I know you know Mark Zuckerberg, I imagine you know him pretty well Kevin, because – you are both young guys and riding that wave of Web 2.0. Has he mentioned this book at all? Does he hate it?

Kevin Rose He has not mentioned that book to me, no.

Leo Laporte So we don’t know how he feels about the...

Kevin Rose I can see if he is online now.

Leo Laporte Yeah, ask him. Eduardo Saverin and Mark Zuckerberg, Harvard undergraduates, best friends. This is the copy on Audible. Eduardo figured their ticket to social acceptance and sexual success was getting invited to join one of Harvard’s final clubs, a constellation of elite societies. Mark didn’t care so much. He was a computer genius. So he decided best way to stardom, hack the University’s computer system creating a rateable data base of all the female students on campus. He nearly got kicked out when he crashed the University’s servers and that’s where the framework for Facebook was born, what a story. This is going to be a great movie. Read the book right now. The Accidental Billionaires is the founding of Facebook. They have tried to add sex to this. In fact the subtitle has a tale of sex, money, genius and betrayal, alright. I could tell you right now, Mark doesn’t like it. You can get it for free. Go to Many, many wonderful books to listen to, like I said, when I, on the way to China I was listening and I am still listening now to a biography of Mao. I’ve got some great stuff. It is for history, for non-fiction, for fiction, for thrillers, whatever it is you would like to read, you can listen to it and it’s a great thing anytime you got to travel, drive the car, work in the garden, do the dishes. we thank them so much for their support of this week in Tech and all of the TWiT program. What did Mark respond to that?

Kevin Rose I was going to wait until you’re done talking about him then send him the links so he can watch it.

Leo Laporte Well I think it’s trouble right here.

Dwight Silverman Aaron Sorkin of the West Wing is doing that movie, isn’t he...

Leo Laporte He’s writing it, which makes it –

Dwight Silverman Yeah.

Leo Laporte Which makes it to me a must see because I think he ‘ just brilliant.

Dwight Silverman It will be a lot better than if anyone else did it, that’s for sure.

Leo Laporte Oh he’s just a brilliant writer and I think this is going to be his meat. When Dane – Dane sent me an email, I think that he can get us the author Ben Mezrich. So we‘re going try to get him on a show and interview him, because Ben did a lot research for this. It should be very interesting, we’re going to get that interview.

Dwight Silverman There aren’t a lot of good movies about geeks and this would be interesting if they could actually make this.

Leo Laporte What’s the best gig movie, is it Triumph of the Nerds?

Kevin Rose No, Pirates of Silicon Valley.

Leo Laporte That was pretty good. Wasn’t it?

Kevin Rose That was good.

Leo Laporte That was Noah Wyle as Steve Jobs, right?

Kevin Rose Yeah, I think so.

Leo Laporte Yeah and Gates –

Dwight Silverman I don’t know.

Leo Laporte You don’t like that?

Dwight Silverman I didn’t think so. I think – I still like –

Leo Laporte You think there’s never been a good one?

Dwight Silverman I still like – again this is old school and this may be my age, but I have always liked –

Leo Laporte Don’t say Sneakers with Robert Redford or I’m going to cave.

Dwight Silverman No.

Leo Laporte I’m going to hang up on you.

Kevin Rose Sneakers was good, I liked Sneakers.

Leo Laporte I am going to say, screw you.

Dwight Silverman WarGames.

Leo Laporte WarGames, there’s a great movie.

Dwight Silverman Yeah, yeah.

Leo Laporte We had John Badham, the director on Screen Savers, remember that Kevin? And he had a – that was fun, he had his like scrapbook from the production of the movie and everything.

Kevin Rose That was awesome.

Dwight Silverman Although here’s a – there’s a really interesting television show that has started airing that is very geek oriented, called Warehouse 13, have you all seen that?

Leo Laporte I haven’t seen that, no.

Dwight Silverman There is a – it’s kind of an X-Files fringe rip-off in which there are two government agents who are assigned to the warehouse where mystical artifacts have been collected by the government and they have to go out each week to get a different –

Leo Laporte It’s the X-Files, come on.

Dwight Silverman It is the X-Files but the person who stays behind, who’s kind of their – kind of their mentor is a – I forgot the actors name, but he plays basically a computer geek and in the last episode he was using IP traces to find out who’s trying to hack in to his computer and you know the technology that they were discussing and what – it wasn’t just like Buzzwords, like on 24 I cringe when they start talking about computers. This was like, they were talking about the real tech and I was pretty impressed. So as a geek, I’m going to keep watching it.

Leo Laporte What’s your favorite geek movie, Kevin? You got one?

Kevin Rose Probably the Matrix. That counts, right?

Leo Laporte That’s a great movie.

Dwight Silverman Oh yeah. Yeah, that’s a good one.

Leo Laporte You know I was watching the original Terminator, which by the way looks incredibly dated, the other day. And I was looking closely at the stuff that was scrolling by, when he’d look at stuff like a ‘brrrrh’ [scanning noise] and it was bad – it was shell script. It was bad shell script; I don’t know where they got it. But that was kind of cool. It was like little UNIX commands going across the screen.

Kevin Rose That’s cool; there was geek behind the scenes there that put that in.

Leo Laporte Yeah, clearly. Right.

Kevin Rose Yeah.

Leo Laporte But usually it’s just pathetic. I mean usually.

Kevin Rose Yeah, normally it’s so fake, all the geeks are like ‘ahhhhh why do you even do that?’ They try and make it look real and like hi-tech and futuristic, it’s always when they’re showing the operating system, right?

Leo Laporte Exactly.

Kevin Rose And they’ll zoom in on the computer and it’s like...

Leo Laporte Big letters.

Dwight Silverman It’s horrible, yeah.

Leo Laporte Big giant letters. ‘Press this button to hack’.

Kevin Rose Oh I like the – I like it when they show a picture of the person and you can’t quite make it out and they press that button that says like – I don’t know what it is, but it’s like it makes it so much clearer so you can finally see the picture of the person. It’s like if a camera caught someone and it’s all pixilated they just hit a special button that makes it like all of a sudden crystal clear.

Leo Laporte Correction. They’re telling me in the chat room, saying – of course it wasn’t bad shell, it was assembly language. It was loads and moves, that’s right. I am remembering it now. Load, move, all that stuff. Somebody says King of Kong, that was – I haven’t seen that – that’s the one about…

Dwight Silverman I haven’t seen that either.

Leo Laporte …the guy who was a Donkey Kong player right?

Kevin Rose That was great. Definitely, definitely Netflix that one. So good

Leo Laporte All right. Documentary?

Kevin Rose Yeah, documentary about this crazy guy that just got so passionate about Donkey Kong that he had to get the highest score and there’s this other guy that tried to cheat. I mean it’s just phenomenal.

Leo Laporte And – a couple of votes for an oldie but goodie, Colossus: The Forbin Project. That was a pretty bad movie but – and it’s still funny and in it’s time. Kind of the – did WarGames, WarGames must come out Kevin when you were a kid.

Kevin Rose Yeah, I was really into that.

Leo Laporte I was going to say, it must have influenced you a little bit.

Kevin Rose Yeah, absolutely. I love WarGames.

Leo Laporte Yeah, that was – yeah, I think that influenced a whole generation of hackers actually.

Dwight Silverman I have a blog post that I did actually couple of years ago called Fifteen Geek Movies To See Before You Die. And it went to the front of Digg when it came out and somebody resubmitted it last week and it went again to the front of Digg this week.

Kevin Rose Nice.

Leo Laporte Well there you go.

Dwight Silverman And so –

Leo Laporte You’ve been double Dugg.

Dwight Silverman I have been double Dugg. First double Digg.

Leo Laporte Digg Dugg?

Dwight Silverman That’s my first double – yes, this is my first Digg Dugg. But – and thanks for the traffic, Kevin.

Kevin Rose Excellent.

Dwight Silverman But what’s funny is that I did not include Blade Runner on that list.

Leo Laporte Oh god!

Kevin Rose Oooh.

Dwight Silverman And I got – we closed comments after so many days on our blogs just because of spammers and so there’s no comments on the second time around, but it – what was funny was all the abuse, if you go in that post, there’s a link off the front of my blog, if you go in there – there’s all this abuse I took for that and if I ever redo it, I think I’ll add it just to keep myself from being shot.

Leo Laporte That’s a great movie. And I – and I – I am on a – Fifth Element is one of those things that divides people. I liked it.

Kevin Rose You have – how can you not love Milla Jovovich.

Leo Laporte I agree.

Kevin Rose She is the most amazing, beautiful women in the entire universe.

Leo Laporte I agree. And the –

Dwight Silverman Just turn it off – turn off the sound and watch her, Leo.

Leo Laporte Well come on, who – who doesn’t love ‘multipass’? I just love that.

And Total Recall, there’s a good one, with Arnold Schwarzenegger. All right, enough.

Amazon, in a bit of trouble because they delete – they reached into people’s Kindle. If you had a copy of 1984 or some other George Orwell books on your Kindle, they reached into it and deleted them. And now initially this was a PR nightmare because all Amazon said is ‘these books are no longer available on the Kindle, so we’re deleting them.’ Then it comes out that in fact the publisher of these books did not have the rights to distribute the books. However, it’s certainly raised a furor, probably rightly so, because if you bought a pirated book or a pirated movie, did you go Kevin to the – what was it, the Feng Jing [ph] bookstore, you go in the basement there and there’s every program ever made for like $0.75?

Kevin Rose I did not.

Leo Laporte Unbelievable – I mean, wide open. I mean there’s no IP protection in China. But let’s say you bought a pirated book. What if the bookstore came into your house, took the book, left $1.50 on the nightstand and said ‘you can’t have it anymore’? Were you upset by this Dwight, did you think this was going too far in Amazon’s part?

Dwight Silverman Well it’s – yes – one of the problems I have with the Kindle in general is it’s digital rights management and the fact that if you buy a book you can’t do kind of the most human thing you can do with a book via Kindle, you can’t like loan somebody else a book.

Leo Laporte That always bugged me because, my wife particularly, she’ll read a book and then lend it out.

Dwight Silverman Right...

Leo Laporte Publishers love this because they sell a copy for each person who reads it.

Dwight Silverman Right, right and I suggested in a blog post a while back what they ought to do is allow you to lend your copy to another Kindle user, but it’s unavailable say for two weeks to you, you can’t read it or look at it. And after two weeks it vanishes from their collection and then they can’t read if they’ve not finished it. And I think that that would be a way kind of to – to take that – keep that paradigm going.

Leo Laporte Kind of like the Zune where you can squirt it?

Dwight Silverman Right, right essentially squirt the book.

Leo Laporte I just had to say squirt, I’m sorry.

Dwight Silverman So I think that – certainly – it’s outrageous if you have that on your book. By the same token, what happened that they allowed a publisher to sell a book that it didn’t have the rights to?

Leo Laporte Well, they have that self –

Dwight Silverman And that’s, I think, a bigger issue.

Leo Laporte They have, I am sure they’ll change this, but they have that kind of automated self publishing system.

Dwight Silverman And they had said that – they said that this won’t happen again given…

Leo Laporte They said they’ll never delete books from your – they will never delete books from your system again according to Pete Cashmore.

Dwight Silverman Right, so what happens if you have a book that you don’t have the rights to and there’s a dispute about it? That means that Amazon doesn’t – if they say that that means they will not do that and that is not a – that’s not a resolution for them. I don’t think they can say they’ll never do it but it certainly brings a – it really highlights kind of one of the limitations of e-books and particularly those that are handled wirelessly like that. Makes me –

Kevin Rose Yeah, I just think that –

Dwight Silverman I don’t know the Kindle. I am not sure I will buy one now.

Kevin Rose It just seems to me that what they should do is consider that once you’ve purchased the book and it’s transferred to your device, that is now in your home, right. And they can’t break into your home and take something back once you’ve bought it. It’s kind of like what happens with your iPhone. If you buy an application and they remove the app from the iPhone store, they can’t go in your phone and take it off. It’s still on your phone even though the application’s been pulled down. I think that was the right way to do it.

Leo Laporte They have that capability.

Dwight Silverman They do have the capability.

Kevin Rose But they haven’t done it yet.

Leo Laporte There is a kill bit.

Kevin Rose They’ve never done to me, I’ve had a few different apps that –

Leo Laporte But they’ve never used it. Yeah, no, no, no that tethering app, which they pulled very quickly is still out there for usage.

Dwight Silverman Yeah, NetShare.

Leo Laporte Yeah, but they – so they haven’t used it, but they do have the capability.

Kevin Rose Yeah the other thing that bothered me with the Kindle is I was on at the other day and it all of a sudden just flashed a screen saying ‘performing updates’ and then it did a software update and rebooted on me.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Kevin Rose And it didn’t give me the option to say I don’t want the update. It just all of a sudden started to do it and just rebooted. I don’t know what additional software it was installing like, what if didn’t want that latest version? Like that was like kind of weird to me as well.

Leo Laporte So should I replace my Kindle? I mean what else am I going to put – I mean...

Kevin Rose It’s the Sony Reader, the Sony you can read.

Leo Laporte I have a Sony. I have the 505. It’s exactly the same screen. I think the thing about the Kindle is that wireless ability to download but that’s the same ability that’s gives them the chance to do those things.

Dwight Silverman Right.

Kevin Rose How often do you use that wireless?

Leo Laporte Although Sony – Whispernet all the time, that’s how I buy books. You hook up your Kindle to your computer?

Kevin Rose No I just – I go on to and say send the Kindle and then it just automatically goes to –

Leo Laporte Okay. Well you’re using it, you’re just using it from the other end.

Kevin Rose Yeah, right. Exactly.

Leo Laporte But almost – I have never done that – may be with subscriptions. But always with books I buy it on the Kindle, which is – I mean I think that’s’ a really nice feature but there – you see the price.

Kevin Rose I like the sample.

Leo Laporte Yeah you get the first chapter, you read it. If you like it… who was it told me that that’s what he does – he’ll load up the Kindle, maybe Alex Lenzi, load up the Kindle with first chapters…

Kevin Rose I do that too.

Leo Laporte …before he gets on the plane. Maybe it was you who said that.

Kevin Rose I do that with 10 or 15 books at the time, I’ll just load it up and things – things I think I might be interested in and read the first chapter and if you like it, boom, done, it‘s on there.

Leo Laporte Credit to you, I guess it was you who said that.

Kevin Rose No, I don’t think it was – but…

Leo Laporte Okay. But obviously you are not alone.

Kevin Rose Yeah.

Leo Laporte And then if you like the book you buy it.

Kevin Rose Exactly.

Leo Laporte I don’t – I wouldn’t do that because I don’t like to read a lot of first chapters and then – I have this weird puritan ethic I think that some – somebody drilled into me. It’s like cleaning your plate; you have to finish a book once you started it. It’s not right.

Kevin Rose You can tell a lot during the first chapter though, whether or not you are going to like it or get into it. I feel that way anyway. You start reading something and go ‘ah this isn’t for me.’

Leo Laporte I agree, but then I feel compelled to finish it like I’m a bad boy if I don’t finish the book. It was Eddie Anaco [ph] who does that by the way, Dane just told me. If you –

Kevin Rose You are the King of the Internet, you can do whatever you want now.

Leo Laporte I am not the King, I am the President! I’m duly elected. This is a republic. Go ahead, sorry, Dwight.

Dwight Silverman If you connect the Sony Reader to its software, even though you’re not connecting wireless, say you do an update or download a book, is it possible that Sony could delete something from the Reader in that way?

Leo Laporte Sure. Of course.

Dwight Silverman And what’s in their terms of service with regard to that.?

Leo Laporte Of course, I am sure they can. And you know frankly I don’t like this – that’s that the main reason I don’t like the e-book reader is I have to use Windows I think to get stuff on there.

Dwight Silverman Oh there’s no Mac version?

Leo Laporte Maybe there is, I seem to remember I had to boot Windows [makes choking noise]. Okay. So, our consensus is they didn’t – they shouldn’t have done that but they’re not going to do it again, so. But what do I buy – do I buy another Kindle? I don’t think there’s anything like it. How many books did you have on there?

Kevin Rose On my Kindle now maybe ten that I purchased?

Dwight Silverman How many books were own your Kindle Leo, that you have lost?

Leo Laporte A ton and you know I had to do, I realized this when I got home, since they didn’t call me back saying ‘we have your Kindle’ I had deactivate it because somebody could – it’s activated – you can buy stuff.

Dwight Silverman Could you tell if anybody having possibly bought something?

Leo Laporte I didn’t – yes, because I would have gotten an email from Amazon saying –

Dwight Silverman And you did not?

Leo Laporte I don’t think so. I’ll have to check and make sure, but yeah I don’t think so. So – but I deactivated it last night thinking ‘oh, shoot.’ Now I have – now I can’t...

Dwight Silverman Was it the first Kindle or the second Kindle – was it the thin one or the fat one?

Leo Laporte Kindle 2 of course.

Dwight Silverman That’ the one that has the cracks from the case.

Leo Laporte What’s the story there because I didn’t – I didn’t get any cracks? You have cracks on yours, Kevin?

Kevin Rose No cracks.

Leo Laporte Do you have cracks – Dwight do you have one?

Dwight Silverman No, I don’t have one. But the cracks apparently are coming from the protective case that Amazon sells as a $30 option.

Leo Laporte That’s the one I’m using, that leather case. I like that leather case.

Dwight Silverman The Kindle – it plugs into the, it kind of connects in.

Leo Laporte Yeah, yeah.

Dwight Silverman And apparently at that joint it has started cracking, that plastic is real thin. And at some point it cracks enough that it damages the screen. Initially they just – they didn’t indicate they would replace them, but now they’re saying they’ll replace them free.

Leo Laporte Can I say ‘I threw it away, can you still replace it? Oh, it was all cracked I threw it out. Oh I can get a new one? Oh, could you send me a new one? Do you think that it will work?’

Dwight Silverman That’s right, you threw it out on the plane.

Leo Laporte I threw it out on the plane because it was cracked.

Dwight Silverman It was cracked so you just left it on the plane.

Leo Laporte I said ‘I don’t want it anymore. Oh, you’ll fix it?’ How’s yours, Kevin. Is it cracked?

Kevin Rose No cracks. So far so good. I have that case as well though, so.

Leo Laporte Me too. I mean I bought that because it’s a nice case.

Kevin Rose It’s the cheapest one too.

Leo Laporte Right.

Kevin Rose Do you see the other cases, like $200 almost for a case, these designer cases, I just don’t get that.

Leo Laporte Yeah, no it’s nice, it’s leather and it makes it like a book.

Kevin Rose Yeah.

Leo Laporte You feel like you should have something over that screen.

Kevin Rose Exactly.

Dwight Silverman It’s the same – I have installed the review unit for the Kindle DX. I have the big one and it uses the same design, it’s got those L-shaped brackets that fit in and that hasn’t cracked, but I am curious that that’s also happening with the DX.

Leo Laporte So I am looking at the Kindle 2, 299, here’s my opportunity for 489 to buy a DX. Should I buy the DX, Dwight?

Dwight Silverman I don’t think so. It’s – I like to read in bed and that’s where I do most of my reading and I like to lay on my side and I have my –

Leo Laporte Yeah, me too. Is it too big for that?

Dwight Silverman Yeah, it’s uncomfortable. It’s comfortable if you’re like sitting in a – in a chair like in a recliner or – because it feels like a hardback book.

Kevin Rose Right.

Dwight Silverman And it’s about that size. And so it’s actually comfortable in that way, but it’s just a little too big I think for casual use or comfortable use. I prefer the little one if I were to get one I’d get the little one.

Kevin Rose Yeah. My sister and I actually split the cost on one I got it for my dad for Father’s Day, the DX and he likes it because when you’re reading a newspaper it feels a lot more like newspaper format and it’s no so scrunched down and tiny. So he really enjoys his.

Leo Laporte That’s one thing, I subscribed to The New Yorker, Atlantic Monthly, Salon, a bunch of periodicals and I don’t like reading them on the Kindle because it’s – so I kind of gave up on periodicals and just buy books. Books are fine. If you’re doing something linear, it’s fine.

I hate to support – and this is something that up from me a lot. I hate to support DRM, but there’s times you just don’t have a choice, Audible is an example, Kindle same thing. I’d love to take – to be – be principled and take a stand and say ‘well I am not going to buy it.’ But then you don’t get the benefit of it either. Can I work within the system as President? Try to change things?

Kevin Rose You can do whatever you want, you’re President.

Dwight Silverman That’s right. You do what you want.

Leo Laporte Except have a BlackBerry; I think I had to give up my BlackBerry.

Kevin Rose Wasn’t there Linux distro for the Kindle a while ago that they figured out how to hack it and get in there and open everything up? It did happen a while ago.

Leo Laporte Oh that would be cool.

Kevin Rose Sounds like something.

Leo Laporte That would be cool

Kevin Rose Something that would break your Kindle If it wasn’t it so expensive, the Kindle was like one of those…

Leo Laporte Sure.

Kevin Rose …$75, $99 devices.

Leo Laporte Hack away.

Kevin Rose People would be hacking them all up and down the street. But the fact that they’re like $400, no one wants to take the risk.

Leo Laporte Hack away.

Kevin Rose You don’t want to bricks Kindle.

Leo Laporte So I don’t know if you saw the story in The New York Times, Kevin. I put this in our list of stories to cover. It came out yesterday so you probably haven’t. The crowd is wise when it’s focused. Now of course at Digg, one of the kind of the seminal inspirations you had for Digg was let the audience decide what stories are big stories. Crowd source. The wisdom of the Crowds. And they call it in this article open innovation. I don’t know if you have heard that term before.

Kevin Rose I have not.

Leo Laporte So this is – a couple of scientists – of course NetFlix, the NetFlix prize was where this all kind of got started. NetFlix said a couple of years ago in fact that they would pay a million dollars to anybody who improve then their movie recommendations, which are notoriously sucky…

Kevin Rose I heard someone just did that right…

Leo Laporte Yes.

Kevin Rose …a week ago

Leo Laporte Yes.

Kevin Rose Couple of weeks ago

Leo Laporte Yes. So on June 26, statisticians – a 7 person team of statisticians from the U.S., Austria, Canada and Israel at AT&T research – I mean these guys finally did – all they had to do was improve it by 10%. The way it works is that they did that 10%, I don’t know what the metric is. Somehow they measure it. On June 26. But then the rivals have 30 days to beat it and I guess we’re coming – in a week they’ll get to claim $1 million prize. This is actually a very smart thing for NetFlix to do because it gives you a goal, it gives you a metric, encourages – and with enough money behind it, encourages people to really work at this.

Kevin Rose Really. And a million bucks is cheap.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Kevin Rose That’s six – that six, five or six engineers for a year’s work you know?

Leo Laporte Good point. Yes. I hope that they –

Dwight Silverman And glory, they get glory.

Leo Laporte Yes. Open innovation models are adopted to overcome the constraints of corporate hierarchies, but successful projects are typically hybrids of ideas flowing from a decentralized crowd, a la Digg, plus a hierarchy winnowing and making decisions. In other words using the crowd plus editorial. You’ve always resisted doing that. Techmeme just recently hired editorial people. Have you ever considered that Kevin?

Kevin Rose You know I don’t know that – we’ll have to see what we are working on next. We have a big Digg new redesign and launch coming in.

Leo Laporte I love this. Every time Kevin’s on Twitter.

Kevin Rose I know.

Leo Laporte Every time! I know, it’s great. It’s just shows how much you’re working on it right now.

Kevin Rose I just think that there’s like – that’s a last resort, right? Like if you get to a point where you have like just –

Leo Laporte I agree, I agree. It’s a slippery slope to full editorial control.

Kevin Rose I just hate to have to have someone in control of what makes it on the front page. Having like one individual that sits there and says yes or no to something.

Leo Laporte I’m totally with you. That was the whole thing you wanted to avoid

Kevin Rose Exactly. So I don’t know. I think that when we – I don’t want to – I’ll get in trouble if I started talking about…

Leo Laporte What’s the timing? Can you say timing?

Kevin Rose Few months, few months.

Leo Laporte You’re so good.

Kevin Rose One book I’ll highly recommended though, The Wisdom of Crowds, the book.

Leo Laporte Yes. James Surowiecki. Isn’t that a great book?

Kevin Rose I just started reading that.

Leo Laporte You never read that?!

Kevin Rose I never read that. I read it in China and I was blown away.

Leo Laporte That’s the book that validates everything you are doing.

Kevin Rose I feel embarrassed to say that I have never that, because I’ve had reporters ask me in the past, they’re like, ‘what do you think of the book’ and I’m just like ‘oh I’ve never had a chance to check it out.’ And I read it and I was just like – I am sitting there like I consumed in like six hours.

Leo Laporte Isn’t it great?

Kevin Rose I was so sucked into it, it was so good.

Leo Laporte Yes. He is a writer for The New Yorker and really, really talented.

Dwight Silverman So to me the Techmeme has changed since they’ve added a human editor, I think you can tell that there is a person kind of pushing for the –

Leo Laporte Changed for that better or worse?

Dwight Silverman I don’t know I haven’t decided yet, but I’m curious –

Leo Laporte That’s the question. Isn’t it?

Dwight Silverman You can tell I think and I think that one of the thing that’s better is there are things that show up there that aren’t from the usual suspects. Techmeme had kind become the usual suspects.

Leo Laporte It was almost too easy to game like this.

Dwight Silverman Right. Right. But I am curious what Kevin thinks of it, because he is operating something that that is pure crowd sourcing or is close as you can get I think to being pure. What do you think of what’s happened with Techmeme? Can you tell?

Kevin Rose. Well, I think that I don’t spend enough time – I visit Techmeme a couple of times a week, so I don’t know that I would notice a difference. But I think that one of the things I have noticed with Digg is that some days you’ll look at the front page and you scan the top stories and the stories that have been promoted and you’re like, there’s two here out of the list I like and I don’t like the others and I don’t understand why they are on the page and I think this is stupid. But then sometimes you’ll come back to the site and say there is no way any sane editor would have picked that story and it’s awesome, right? And so you Digg it

Leo Laporte Right.

Kevin Rose You know what I mean? So sometimes it works with you. Sometimes it works against you. It’s just like, it really depends on what your flavor of news is and I think that we’ve always had the random aspect going for Digg, where you never know what you are going to get and that’s what I think actually pulled in a lot of people to view the site in the first place, is it wasn’t just your standard same all editorial driven news site.

Dwight Silverman I’m curious – one of the things that surprised me about my own industry is I would think that more newspapers would be – and just general publications that are doing the web would try something like a Digg version of their front page. I have seen people talking about it, but not a lot of people have actually done it and there are a lot of Digg clones out there like Curtsey [ph].

Leo Laporte Or Yahoo! Buzz…

Dwight Silverman Or Yahoo! Buzz, right.

Leo Laporte …which is huge.

Dwight Silverman Which actually is – the newspaper consortium is heavily involved with that, a lot of those –

Leo Laporte Oh, is that true?

Dwight Silverman Yeah, yeah.

Leo Laporte Oh interesting.

Dwight Silverman But what’s interesting is that I haven’t seen kind of other people trying to do that and I’d love to do it. We just don’t have the resources to point at that yet, but I think it’s a great idea. And I’m also real interested in the idea of a hybrid, of human and crowdsource, an editor and crowdsource collaboration and I think you could get an editor in sync with the crowd. I think that you actually might be able to do it, I don’t know they’ve done that at Techmeme yet.

Leo Laporte Kind of lightweight mediation almost.

Dwight Silverman Right, right. So I’m a little curious as to what Kevin’s going to do.

Kevin Rose Yes. I think you see lot of even major news sites now that are starting to experiment with different ways of doing this. I mean even if you look at like CNN you see they’re now placing a lot more prominence on big sections such as most viewed, most e-mailed, most Tweeted, most Dugg, whatever it may be and giving those –

Leo Laporte And you know that’s the one I always go to right away, by the way.

Kevin Rose Yeah absolutely. Because you –

Leo Laporte You can tell it’s going to be the good stuff.

Kevin Rose It’s always the good stuff. Yes.

Leo Laporte Yes. I think that’s one way that we have, in fact one of the few ways that works, that we have of mediating the huge amount of information that’s on the Internet. And that’s why I use – and how I use Twitter and FriendFeed is I let people surface the stories, the important stories. I don’t use my news readers as much as I used to.

Dwight Silverman Yes, it’s weird. I haven’t used RSS in a while now actually, which is weird.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Google Reader is –

Dwight Silverman Twitter takes the price of it.

Leo Laporte Google Reader is trying more and more to incorporate those social aspects but it just doesn’t seem to do it as well as – just follow Twitter! Or I use FriendFeed just because it FriendFeeds everything. I was following you in China, Kevin, because it aggregated all of the stuff.

Kevin Rose Yes, it’s weird in that when you look at like where we spend – we each have our own daily stops, right? You may go to like FriendFeed and Twitter and Digg and a handful of others and I figure if it doesn’t show up on one of those sites, I probably don’t need to know about it, right? It’s going to be on one of those sites that I really care about.

Leo Laporte I don’t – you can not answer this Kevin and we can move on and go to something else but I do want to ask about the DiggBar.

Kevin Rose Sure.

Leo Laporte Now originally there was some criticism – in fact this was one of the things that the last time you were on you said that ‘we’re going to launch it.’ And I thought actually a brilliant idea to do a URL shortening service, got some criticism because it was framing, but you changed that. And now according to Jason Kincaid in today’s TechCrunch, which I always take with a grain of salt, it says you’ve changed it – he says the changes is a subtle one but will have major implications. Typically when you use a link shortening service, anyone who clicks on your shortened link would be set directly to the original article without a landing page. Now the DiggBar apparently sends you to Is that true?

Kevin Rose That’s a good question. I have been gone –

Leo Laporte You don’t know!

Kevin Rose I have been gone for two weeks. So I don’t know what got pushed, what code get pushed and how it functions but, the last – my last understanding is that what we wanted to do is have it so that if you click on a Digg URL, it takes you to the Digg story so that you can Digg it.

Leo Laporte Right.

Kevin Rose And just rather than providing a short URL service that just forwards, does redirection, we would just do a URL service just for Digg articles, just like the same way that TechCrunch does like TechCrunch/85374.

Leo Laporte Right.

Kevin Rose If you go to that, you’re not going to go to some other site. You are going to go to TechCrunch. That’s the story…

Leo Laporte So you are backing off on the original ID, which is a general URL shortening service.

Kevin Rose Correct.

Leo Laporte To say really this is – this is really the Digg…

Kevin Rose This is just – if you see one of these links it’s going to take you to a Digg story. But don’t mark my – I’m not sure that’s what’s been pushed yet.

Leo Laporte Right.

Kevin Rose I haven’t been to the office in two weeks so that was where we were going today.

Leo Laporte I think that makes sense to me and I understand the reasoning to do that. That’s where your revenue comes from. If you link just to the story you don’t get the page view.

Kevin Rose Well we’ve – it’s weird. We’ve had this hybrid system for a long time where some of the URLs had gone out just directly to the source, another URL will go out and draw the bar if you are a logged in user and then we also had it where it would take you directly to the permalink page if it was from Twitter and the reason for that is because we were sending out all these links through our – we got this feed on Twitter; it’s @digg_2000 or maybe it’s all Digg2000; where it’s any story that’s received 2000 Diggs goes out and that has several hundred thousand followers on it.

Leo Laporte Oooh, that’s good I’m going to follow that. That’s great.

Kevin Rose Yes. It’s just like the best of the best stuff, right. And so we had – that feed-ins been getting really popular, but the problem that we had is that we were sending all the people directly to the source and they didn’t know how to Digg the article and they were like ‘well what if I want to go back and Digg it?’ So we made those URLs just go to the permalink page but then people were confused because those ones are going to the permalink, other ones were not and getting the tool bar and so we were like ‘okay, we need to make this simple and just make it do one thing all the time, right, so it’s a unified experience for everyone.’

Leo Laporte Now I’m looking, you have 12 Digg pages on Twitter.

Kevin Rose Those are the different categories, so any kind of –

Leo Laporte Digg images, world news, environment, technology, software. So you could follow, if I were interested as I am, Digg Technology News, I just follow that. And is that – what does that duplicate?

Kevin Rose So anytime a story gets promoted in technology on Digg, it will come into your Twitter feed if you are following it.

Leo Laporte Cool.

Kevin Rose The Digg2000 is by far the most popular though. That’s just stories that it have received 2,000 or more Diggs…

Leo Laporte Which is huge.

Kevin Rose Yes. Those are big stories.

Leo Laporte That means those are the biggest stories.

Kevin Rose That’s only going to be maybe five stories a day or something like that. So it’s just the best of the best.

Leo Laporte And when I click that link it brings me to the Digg page, which makes sense because I am logged into Digg and that way if I read it I can Digg it.

Kevin Rose Right, exactly, otherwise you wouldn’t know how to get to the article to Digg it.

Leo Laporte And to be fair that’s the ad page. That’s where the revenue is.

Kevin Rose That’s how we make money.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Kevin Rose Got to pay the bills.

Leo Laporte Yes. No I think that that seems logical. I don’t think that there is a reason to complain about that. It’s just a change I guess. So – and anytime this is always a case. You make a change, some people are going to get upset.

Kevin Rose Yes. It’s – the funny thing is I used to get really upset about that, but at the end of day it’s like, I don’t know you just got to – you have to evolve and make changes and not worry about every single person every time. Like you can’t worry about what the masses are always going to say, you just have to do what’s right for your long term vision if that makes sense and what’s going to be right for like the consumer, so it makes sense to everyone down the road. Because right now the way we had it, it was completely broken where some people were getting confused in certain areas.

Leo Laporte Right. I didn’t – no it was broken, I didn’t get what was going to happen. I couldn’t predict what was going to happen.

Kevin Rose Yes. And that’s a bad thing. We don’t ever want to have a situation like that, so.

Leo Laporte But I’m a little jetlagged so.

Kevin Rose As am I.

Dwight Silverman I never liked the social media bars. I didn’t really like the DiggBar; I kind of decided that –

Leo Laporte I don’t want framing. I don’t want framing at all.

Dwight Silverman No, right. John Gruber of Daring Fireball was most scathing about the DiggBar in its initial incarnation.

Leo Laporte I’m getting kind of fed up with shortened URLs in general, which is why I kind of prefer if it’s a Digg URL, it goes to Digg then I know that, or TechCrunch URL…

Dwight Silverman Right, you know what you’re dealing with, right.

Leo Laporte Because now – I mean I used but the problem is you don’t know what you’re going to get and especially nowadays that the web is so dangerous, clicking on links without knowing where you are going is just a – it’s a bad idea

Dwight Silverman Well, there are a lot of Twitter clients now that will show you what the full URL is, the shortened URL, I think Tweetie will do that, you have to turn it on. But I have those turned on wherever I can and obviously that’s saves me some grief I think when you are using it. I like short URLs and obviously in Twitter…

Leo Laporte You have to…

Dwight Silverman You got to have them, right. But I know ones where or I see them where I know will generate like will generate a social bar and I just won’t click on them. I just don’t go there.

Kevin Rose Yeah. That’s one of the things you have to be aware of TWiTs. We have seen some of that happening when we used to – when we did the short URL service and I have also seen other services happening as, you get spam e-mails now with these short URLs.

Dwight Silverman Right.

Kevin Rose And if you see a name – you see a name that you recognize, you are like oh I trust because I clicked on things in the past that have come through my Twitter feed and that had been okay. You know what the average consumer is most likely thinking. They see that they click it and then all of a sudden you know, malware site or whatever it may be.

Leo Laporte That’s one of the reasons I used FriendFeed because they do that and the Power Twitter which is a really nice Firefox item.

Dwight Silerman Yeah, Power Twitter. It’s good. I would like to see that feature where short URLs are expanded, built into Office 2010 and the Outlook 2010, I think that would be very handy.

Leo Laporte What do you think of this, Microsoft 2010 Outlook announcement? This is all going to be on the web, is that the idea?

Dwight Silverman Well, there is a version of it that will be on the web. It will be like…

Leo Laporte You pay a monthly fee.

Dwight Silverman Well, actually for casual use, it’s free. It’s going to be at Windows Live as part of the Windows Live package and it will be free but for companies to use it apparently it will be – there will be a fee for it.

Leo Laporte Just like Google Docs basically.

Dwight Silverman Right. And that’s the competition. And the idea, you know, that you go and have that familiar Office interface or well as familiar as the ribbon is to people. That will be the big draw.

Leo Laporte I want to add. I just saw in our chat room that Frank McCourt passed away. Yeah, Angela's Ashes. He was 78 and that means since I get another Audible book pick I really want to encourage you to get Angela's Ashes. He reads it and it is fantastic, one of my favorite audio books of all times. So there is your second Audible pick in honor of Frank McCourt. We should also mention that Walter Cronkite passed away a couple of days ago, the dean of journalism. Were you influenced? You like me, you are of an age where Walter Cronkite was it, right.

Dwight Silverman Yes, and I kind of grew up with the news with him. I remember the Kennedy assassination through his news report.

Leo Laporte He pulled off his glasses and you could see his eyes tearing.

Dwight Silverman Right.

Leo Laporte And he was visibly shaken and he said the president has died. I mean I will never forget that.

Dwight Silverman And the moon. It was funny that he or interesting that he died during the 40th anniversary of the moon landing period where we are doing a lot of at The Chronicle, obviously, we are doing a lot of things with Apollo 11.

Leo Laporte Sure, Houston is where the space center was.

Dwight Silverman And I remember as a kid, my parents had given me a little reel-to-reel tape recorder and several years before this and because there was no VCR and there was no way to record television I sat in front our Ford Philco television set with my – holding up the microphone to the speaker so I could have the moon landing recorded and I went back and listened to it a few times as a kid. It was great, and there is Walter Cronkite again getting emotional as Neil Armstrong set foot on the moon.

Leo Laporte I from Mercury, through Gemini, through Apollo I watched Walter all those launches and of course you never forget the ones where there were holds and Walter Cronkite who is known in his early career is an AP reporter as Old Iron Pants because he could sit there for days on end and he had to during these launches with little more than an expert Frank McGee or somebody sitting next to him. I guess McGee was on NBC but an expert sitting next to him and a model of the Saturn rocket and just go on, this is stage one at the center. He’s just going on and on and on and it was gripping. He was brilliant.

Dwight Silverman Did you watch his last…do you remember his last newscast? Did you?

Leo Laporte I do. Tell us about it.

Dwight Silverman Well, I was sitting. I saw it in Austin, I was in college and I went with a bunch of friends to a Mr. Gatti’s just off the drag off Guadalupe Street and we ordered a bunch of pitchers of beer and a lot of pizza and we watched it. And I remember at the end of it I expected something kind of more dramatic and it was just kind of like oh okay. It was like the only time that he really ever disappointed me.

Leo Laporte Well, that’s the way it is. What did he say? The last words were…

Dwight Silverman That’s, I think he did say that’s the way it is.

Leo Laporte Just that’s the way it is. I interviewed him for an hour after his retirement, I think this was ‘90 or ’91 and one of the most engaging interviews I have ever had and it was actually one of my last interviews before I started doing only TECH and I will never forget it. He was just an amazing journalist and an inspiration to us all and the guy who really ended the Vietnam War because when Walter Cronkite in 1968 said we are losing this war, it’s all over. They are lying to us. That’s when Lyndon Johnson said we have lost. It is over if we had lost Walter Cronkite, we have lost the nation. So very, very powerful.

Leo Laporte Hey I want to mention. Since we are in the 40th anniversary and tomorrow, today maybe as you’re listening to this is the 40th anniversary of Neil Armstrong’s first step on the moon. There is a really great site, somebody sent me in the chat room called I don’t know if you have seen this site. It’s put together by the Kennedy Presidential Library and AOL is doing the server. It’s got live audio transmissions from ShopCast of the – and NASA has been doing this to the audio. It has incredible animations, video. Did you read that NASA overwrote, they erased the original moon landing tapes?

Dwight Silverman They have – they were not really into recording, shocking back then. There was just the direct broadcast and what you saw on your television in 1969 was a camera pointed at the big screen at the Johnson Space Center in Houston and so you are seeing a picture of a picture.

Kevin Rose Sounds like a conspiracy to me.

Leo Laporte Did they really walk on the moon? We may never know.

Dwight Silverman I hate the moon hoaxers. I don’t think – I don’t think the moon hoaxers even deserve a dialogue, I’m kind of embarrassed –

Leo Laporte Well you remember a couple of years ago somebody came up to Buzz Aldrin and said ‘it was all a lie’ and Buzz Aldrin popped him one.

Kevin Rose Yeah.

Leo Laporte Boom! And it was – boom! It was like, good for you Buzz. Well I think that Collins, Aldrin and Armstrong are going to be on stage tomorrow at an event. You know why I think it’s important to memorialize this, to remember it is because I want us to go to Mars. I want us to continue on.

Dwight Silverman Yes. Yep.

Leo Laporte I think that’s so very important – I know we’re in tough economic times but this is what keeps, this is – this is what keeps the human race looking forward is this kind of thing. I think it’s so important.

Dwight Silverman Yeah, I think we need to, I think that’s kind of – of course I am a child of science fiction and –

Leo Laporte Yes.

Dwight Silverman But I think that’s our destiny. It’s our destiny to leave the planet and go elsewhere.

Leo Laporte I’m reading a book, I highly recommend. It’s also on Audible, Kim Stanley Robinson’s books. He has got a trilogy about Mars that is a very heavy duty scientific – this guy does hard sci-fi and obviously like became a Mars expert, because he describes in great detail what would be involved in colonizing Mars and it’s wonderful. Highly recommended. There is a detective story in there, If you like sci-fi –

Kevin Rose What’s it called?

Leo Laporte It’s called, well the first one is Red Mars and then there is Blue Mars and Green Mars, Red, Blue, Green. And it’s Kim Stanley Robinson. It is fantastic, I have read it – Ben Bova also wrote a book about Mars exploration. It’s very good, but this is, this is the one that if you really want to kind of visualize what it would need to be like, what we would need to do. They say the biggest problem is the length of the flight – you lose so much bone and muscle mass in zero gravity that that’s the problem that has to be solved.

Dwight Silverman And there is also no way to really adequately shield ourselves for that length of time from the radiation that’s out there.

Leo Laporte Well one of the things that –

Dwight Silverman Listen to me, I sound like Walter Cronkite. ‘There is no way to shield yourself.’

Leo Laporte ‘One of the things that can happen.’ This is actually in the book. One of the first incidences, there is solar flare and they have to shield. It’s really great, it’s a wonderful, wonderful novel. But let’s remember, 40 years ago, you don’t remember it, Kevin. You’re too young, sad to say, but I remember getting up in the middle of the night, I was 12, to watch the Eagle land – Tranquillity Base here, the Eagle has landed. And then few hours later watching Neil Armstrong step off that ladder on to a surface. They didn’t even know if it was safe. They thought he possibly could sink right in. So a momentous occasion for –

Kevin Rose That had to be so scary, I mean can you imagine getting off and being like, I don’t know if I’m going to step down now. That could be moon quicksand right there and I don’t know it.

Leo Laporte You don’t know. Amazing, just amazing. Yeah, but these guys – I mean these are the bravest men in the world. I mean these guys, they’re sitting on a rocket that’s land – it’s basically a controlled explosion that’s going to launch them to the moon.

Dwight Silverman There’s a book, I forgot the name of it, I know the name of the author because of his name, Craig Nelson wrote it. It’s about Apollo 11. And we interviewed him on Wednesday on Technology Bytes, the Pacific Computer call in show that I do and he told this great story about Neil Armstrong. They were test pilots, so they were used to the idea of danger and possibly dying. And apparently at one point Armstrong was working with a rocket-based simulator of the lunar module and it crashed. It kind of crashed and burned up and he walked away from it without being injured and his remark was ‘well, we lost another piece of equipment.’

Leo Laporte These guys! Well if you read the right stuff of course, Tom Wolfe’s kind of semi-fictional, it’s supposed to be true and I guess it is, the story of the first Mercury astronauts. I mean these guys were crazy, Chuck Yeager and the like.

Somebody is mentioning a gratuitous plug here, Marc Pelletier is in our chat-room, that we did an interview, Marc did an interview with Buzz Aldrin and you can listen to it still. It’s one of our Futures in Biotech episodes, FIB 23, if you want to listen to it, Buzz’s account of landing on the moon. Of course we’ll hear a lot from Aldrin and Armstrong and Collins through the next few days. It’s a big deal.

Going take a quick break, come back and talk more about the – we got some quick news about the PC industry completely collapsing and we’re doing a special TWiT with a couple of jetlagged guys just back from China, Kevin Rose and myself and of course Dwight Silverman of the Houston Chronicle.

Dwight Silverman I’m just sleepy, that’s all. I just want to nap.

Leo Laporte Well I think – what time is it now? It’s 7:30 in the morning. So we’re just getting up in China.

Kevin Rose That’s right.

Leo Laporte Yeah. We’re just waking up.

I do want to mention our friends at Citrix and the great GoToMyPC. I could have used this. Had I planned ahead. I should have really planned ahead. I didn’t really realize how blocked the internet would have been. I could have used GoToMyPC to log into my systems here, basically use it as a VPN, 128-bit encryption means you are secure and it is the best, I love GoToMyPC, fantastic product from Citrix and I want you to give it a try by going to You could try it free for 30 days. Citrix knows how to make a product that is straightforward, simple to use and yet sophisticated. This is going to give you the state-of-the-art in remote access, better than anything else out there, but all you need is a web browser. Just go to, click the download link, in two minutes you will be setup. Now any other computer you go to, whether you are in China, whether you are in Timbuktu, doesn’t matter. You open a web browser, get online, go to, enter your secure user name password, click connect and there it is, your office PC. You can use it remotely, run any program centre, receive email, access any network resources. They couldn’t make it easier. They couldn’t make it more secure. There is nothing better. If you need to access your PC from anywhere you are, go to and give it a try. I had it set up, just wasn’t thinking.

Kevin Rose You know what they never do, they never mention the biggest use for GoToMyPC and that’s fixing my parent’s computer.

Leo Laporte It’s true.

Kevin Rose Seriously, because they have a PC and it’s the easiest way to do it.

Leo Laporte It’s easiest way to do it, it works Macs and PCs now, absolutely. It’s just very straight forward and it’s fast, because they’ve got the algorithms to make this as speedy as can be over almost any network connection., thank them so much for their support of the TWiT Network.

So we’re going to see – we’re going to start to see a lot of second quarter reports. But so far what we’ve seen is not so hot, Dell down 19% year-to-year, they have 26% of the market share. Still number one over HP, because everybody else slipped. Apple slipped down 12.25% – 12.5% from last year. Overall that’s…

Kevin Rose That’s a – those are animal – analyst estimates and Apple do its - animal estimates, ha - Apple will do its analyst call – earnings call this week.

Leo Laporte I stand corrected. I’m sorry. In fact we don’t know. Apple traditionally undersells, overperforms, so the analysts could be completely wrong on this one. Gartner says that PC unit sales fell 5%, but that’s better than – some expected as much as 9 to 10%.

Is the PC industry in a doldrums? Is it a shambles? Is everything falling apart or is this just kind of delayed bad economy stuff?

Dwight Silverman I think –

Kevin Rose I just don’t see the reason to buy another PC, I don’t see –

Leo Laporte That’s the real problem, isn’t it?

Kevin Rose It’s like, we browse the web, we check our e-mail, we send Tweets, we watch movies and we use iTunes and the computer has been able to do that at fast speeds for several years now.

Leo Laporte You’re starting to sound like an old fart. ou’re sounding like me.

Kevin Rose No I’m just saying, take that –

Leo Laporte You know I said this to Craig Barrett at Intel, I said ‘who needs a 2 gigahertz processor?’ He said ‘only old fart journalists like you ask me that question, Leo.’

Kevin Rose I’m telling you, take that and couple with a bad economy and there’s no reason that ever upgrade for the foreseeable future, right?

Leo Laporte No, of course.

Kevin Rose Like I’ve had the same PC for a couple of years now.

Leo Laporte Do you think Windows 7 will change that, people will go – because that’s how people upgrade Windows.

Kevin Rose I think the people that upgraded to Vista are going to upgrade to Windows 7 just because they’re so pissed off at how bad Vista is, they want to get out of that.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Kevin Rose But yeah, I mean, I think Windows 7 is a big step in the right direction.

Leo Laporte Windows 7 will sell computers, right, Dwight?

Dwight Silverman Oh yes, definitely and I – but not as much as Window – a new copy of Windows used to in the past.

Leo Laporte It used to be that’s what everybody waited for.

Dwight Silverman Right and Kevin makes a point that people are going to want to buy Windows 7 to get out of Vista, but there are a lot of people who don’t trust Microsoft now as a result of Vista and won’t upgrade probably until they get themselves a new computer. But I think this is probably the main reason that we don’t buy a lot of computers anymore and I think it’s – I think smartphones, smartphones are kind of a bright spot in terms of sales in the industry and I think that this may be – particularly as the – if the iPhones moves to more than just one carrier. I think that the PC industry has a lot to worry about.

Leo Laporte You think that’s going to happen?

Kevin Rose It’s a good point. That’s a good point.

Dwight Silverman I think, well – I don’t know, if I were Apple, certainly there in the catbird seat right now, because they’re in the negotiation supposedly with AT&T over extending the exclusivity.

Leo Laporte Please Apple don’t, please we beg of you go – Verizon, right? We want Verizon.

Dwight Silverman Yes, so I can see – I can see Apple, if the deal – if they can get a better deal from AT&T than they can from anybody else and there’s something in there that guarantees –

Leo Laporte Well that’s the bottom line isn’t it?

Dwight Silverman Right. Right and that they can extend their market share, you know they may look at the numbers and say okay, it’s time to – the best way – the best deal that we can get is to end the exclusivity, what I’d be curious about is what if Apple does another exclusive deal. What if they instead of saying AT&T and Verizon they just drop AT&T and only say Verizon, what would that – that would be just as bad.

Leo Laporte No we don’t want that because I’ve got – you know I have to buy a new phone.

Dwight Silverman Right.

Kevin Rose Well let me ask you a question, is it possible for – Verizon is not GSM, correct?

Leo Laporte Yeah, they’re CDMA.

Kevin Rose Right, so Apple has to design a new…

Leo Laporte You’d have to change the chipset…

Kevin Rose …new different type of phone, change the chipset...

Leo Laporte …new chipset. Yeah.

Kevin Rose …right is that a big deal?

Leo Laporte Well, you know, it’s funny, some say it is because the chipset that Apple is using right now is GSM only.

Kevin Rose Right.

Leo Laporte I think, it’s an Infineon chipset.

Kevin Rose Which means that the only two carriers that could go with our AT&T and T-Mobile, right?

Leo Laporte Right. So they do have to put a new chipset in, I mean, they could do that, that’s not, you know, impossible.

Dwight Silverman Yeah, I didn’t know if that would be a different engineering feat. Like are the chips bigger for that particular type of technology?

Leo Laporte Well, I wonder I mean that would be one way to do this is to keep it, do a non-exclusive – if they’re not going to do exclusive with Verizon, because that would just screw, I mean…

Kevin Rose Yeah.

Leo Laporte As much as Apple likes to screw its existing customer sets.

Kevin Rose You have to have an international phone too, right? You have to have a phone that’s going to work in the world market, the entire world is GSM-based, so…

Leo Laporte Absolutely, I mean, if I had a – if I had a Sprint or Verizon phone, if I were using the Palm Pre, I couldn’t have used it in China.

Kevin Rose Right.

Leo Laporte Now Verizon makes world phones that are both CDMA and GSM and I think that’s what you have to do, you have to make a hybrid phone that does both, but that’s – you’re right more chips – complete redesigns. I don’t know. I don’t know, I’d say it’s a tough one. I’d sure like to see them get rid of AT&T.

Kevin Rose Is T-Mobile a better provider?

Leo Laporte No, no.

Kevin Rose No.

Leo Laporte They’re nicer.

Kevin Rose They’re nicer on the phone.

Leo Laporte They’re nicer on the phone.

Dwight Silverman They’re very nice. Yeah, they’re known for their customer service. Although actually, if you deal with AT&T’s customer service on the phone, they’re actually pretty good.

Leo Laporte No, especially since the iPhone, they’ve retrained, I think.

Dwight Silverman Right, on the other hand, they are very nice to you and when you hang up, you still have, you know, AT&T...

Leo Laporte You’re still screwed, right.

Dwight Silverman Right, right AT&T service.

Leo Laporte No, I called them up and I said what’s this $750 and they said well, you know what we could do. We could – we could split it up between two different months because my contract is like the middle of month and then you’d only owe us $100, for the second 100 and then 300 – 250, so we only be $350 instead of $750. I said, okay, well that’s what you can do, do it. So that was nice of them, they were very friendly while they were screwing me.

Kevin Rose It’s better – it’s better to have a friendly screw…

Leo Laporte Yeah. It’s like – they bought me dinner.

Kevin Rose They took you out first.

Leo Laporte Yeah, they took me out first.

Dwight Silverman Did you take a screen shot of the phone?

Leo Laporte Oh yeah.

Dwight Silverman Showing that it was…

Leo Laporte Yeah. It’s still showing that I could do – it says – when did you reset it, July 2nd, how much usage since July 2nd, it’s still well under 250 megabits, it’s like 103 now.

Dwight Silverman Tell them you’ll pay them for that.

Leo Laporte Yeah, here is what – here is what my phone says. I already did pay them for that Dwight, that’s why I stopped at 100 megabits, I paid them for 100 megabits. I was paying attention to the phone usage and that’s why, I thought I could trust my phone that I bought from AT&T to tell me the usage accurately…

Dwight Silverman And what did they say when you pointed that out to them and the phone says x.

Leo Laporte They had nothing to say.

Dwight Silverman What did they say?

Leo Laporte They had nothing to say. They said, well we show 250 megabytes.

Kevin Rose Maybe they count back to the – the bits and the bytes –

Dwight Silverman I would go back to them and say ‘well my phone shows this’.

Leo Laporte I’m sure I’ll hear from somebody tomorrow. I’ve reamed them now on a national radio show and TWiT. I’m sure, I’ll hear from somebody. But you know I almost – I hate to pull that card, it’s like almost, I want to be a – how would you treat somebody normal.

Kevin Rose Right.

Leo Laporte Not so well, apparently.

Dwight Silverman Well, the question is your phone shows x that’s what they tell you is the meter then they come at you with a different meter and there’s a bigger issue there, I think.

Leo Laporte Hey, we were going to talk about – and I yes I agree and I am going to pursue it and I am getting an itemized bill from them and I am going to see what I can do, but I don’t have time for all this stuff. I got jury duty tomorrow. Can you believe that? I got back and I have jury duty.

Kevin Rose That’s rough.

Dwight Silverman They’re all guilty. Just keep repeating ‘they’re all guilty’

Leo Laporte ‘Theyre all guilty. I hate them all. Hey if you got arrested, it’s for a reason. Go to jail.

Dwight Silverman And besides you are president of the Internet.

Leo Laporte ‘I am president of the Internet, you can’t make me do jury duty.’

So, let’s talk about the Twitter hack because I wasn’t going to cover this and you raised some interesting issues, both Kevin and Dwight, before we began the show. This will be our last story. We’re going long, I know I apologize but there’s so much to talk about. Twitter got hacked. You know Twitter keeps getting hacked and this one was, again somebody at Twitter having a crappy password which was guessed by the bad guys using a brute force attack. This is not the first time this has happened at Twitter. The difference is this time, supposedly, the bad guys got access to the employees’ e-mail account or something. They got all these documents. Now as far as I know only TechCrunch published these documents. I looked at this and I thought ‘I don’t want to do this story.’ I felt kind of dirty just reading them. What is our obligation here Dwight? Do we do this, do we tell this story or what?

Dwight Silverman Well, I think there’s –

Leo Laporte You are the official journalist of the group.

Dwight Silverman Well, I think there is a – I think there are a lot of interesting issues here. Michael Arrington kind of went on at length about why he thought he should publish them. A lot of people disagreed with him. Legally I think he can publish them. The law has been – this has been litigated quite a bit where if you receive documents that are stolen and you print them so long you didn’t collude in the original crime –

Leo Laporte Well, let’s go all the way back to the Pentagon Papers.

Dwight Silverman Right, the Pentagon Papers, that’s the biggest example.

Leo Laporte Which is the classic case where the inside papers from the Pentagon were leaked by Daniel Ellsberg. New York Times got him, Sai Hirsch [ph] wrote about it, published it. I think won a Pulitzer Prize for it and the Times never got – was – of course immediately the government tried to shut them down and lost. But now that was about the Vietnam War. I mean there was something going on there. This is just Twitter..

Dwight Silverman Right. There is an issue of whether this goes to the public good and do we essentially need to know about Twitter’s business model, which is kind of what everybody in the tech –

Leo Laporte I felt – I started reading it and I felt sleazy reading it.

Kevin Rose I think the difference is that the Twitter business model I think would have been okay. What bothered me about what I saw published was the fact it was a lot of dirt – Twitter’s dirty laundry that was published out there and we didn’t really need to read all that. I just don’t understand why this was put up on the internet. Like why did that have to be on TechCrunch?

Leo Laporte Well I know why it had to be on TechCrunch because let’s face it, that’s how TechCrunch makes its living. They are basically the valley wag – I mean they have really become a scandal sheet.

Dwight Silverman Well, they have – It comes down to this is that ultimately they received what amounted to stolen property and yeah they may have –

Leo Laporte They have the technical right to publish it. Absolutely.

Dwight Silverman They have the technical right, but the question is whether ethically they should have. I didn’t see anything, Kevin, that was necessarily sleazy other than – in fact he apparently has sleazy stuff and he’s not, really sleazy stuff and he’s not doing anything with that. But, but –

Leo Laporte First of all, you can’t judge the providence of it, right. You don’t know that it’s real.

Dwight Silverman You don’t that it’s real, you don’t know how it’s been altered. All you know is that you got these documents from somebody who said that.

Leo Laporte In fact the stories a little far fetched, just because somebody hacked the Twitter account, how would they – or did they hack their Gmail account, I mean how?

Kevin Rose Well I think they had the same password, right.

Leo Laporte Oh same password, okay.

Dwight Silverman And they also used – once they got in they used password recovery where it gets, a password gets e-mailed back to the original account and so then they were able to get into things like their Google Docs. And it also raises the issue of putting company documents up in the cloud, where they could be accessed.

Leo Laporte There is no question that – if I’m on the Twitter Board I have some pretty serious questions to ask.

Dwight Silverman Right, right.

Leo Laporte Because I mean, that’s – but that’s an internal issue. And frankly I think TechCrunch has the right to publish this stuff. I wouldn’t even complain about that, I just decided not to cover the story. I’m not going to repeat any of the information from it because I just – I didn’t, you can’t validate the providence of it, nothing I read there had the importance of the Pentagon papers for sure.

Kevin Rose Yes. The thing that bothered me more than anything else is that we, living in the Bay Area, I’m sure Leo you know some of these guys too, these are like friends of ours, right, that run these companies and that worked at Twitter…

Leo Laporte Yes.

Kevin Rose And Arrington is also friends with these guys and I just think that if something like that, let’s just say I’m TechCrunch, if something like that lands on my desk, and you have all these documents and you say ‘wow, this is going to be a really big story’, right. I understand him going out there and saying like ‘okay here is what their business model is or here is what they are thinking’ because that’s something that everyone is really curious about and is just the general interest tech story.

But when you get down and start talking about the specifics of what they were thinking about certain individuals that worked at Google, who they liked, who they didn’t like, what they were thinking about, dealings with like Puff Daddy and the fact they didn’t think he was an overly big asset…

Leo Laporte That’s when I stopped reading right there.

Kevin Rose That was the kind of stuff where I was like why did you even have to put that up there? That just makes those guys look bad and it hurts people, you know what I mean, it’s not just like reporting on the news, it’s actually hurting someone. I don’t know.

Leo Laporte But, that’s what drives traffic; let’s face it, that’s what –

Kevin Rose Yes, I know, but it’s just a shame.

Dwight Silverman Well there is also an issue of Internet journalism here and that is, one of the things that sites like TechCrunch and other pure Internet sites do is they not only give you a story that they’ve written, but they put the documents themselves up, they put their raw material up.

Leo Laporte Which I think is fine.

Dwight Silverman But the raw material had the information about P. Diddy in it.

Leo Laporte Well…

Dwight Silverman And so what happens is –

Leo Laporte I can argue the other side which is the public’s right know, if you are a real journalist you don’t say ‘oh, they are my friends, I’m going to protect them.’ You publish the story.

Dwight Silverman Right, right, you don’t want to do that.

Kevin Rose Yes, but what’s the story though?

Leo Laporte Well, that’s true, what is the story, that P. Diddy wasn’t –

Dwight Silverman The story is primarily in this case is that you get an insight into what they are considering as a business model, which is what everybody wants to know about Twitter, right.

Kevin Rose Absolutely. Absolutely. It’s not – it’s TechCrunch.

Dwight Silverman And there are going peripheral things if you are showing – there are going to be peripheral things if you are showing the documents that include the reference to P. Diddy.

Leo Laporte I see.

Dwight Silverman You have to explain that. And so as stupid as it is, that’s kind of – if you are going to put that out there you have to do some – that said, they could have done it in a non-Internet journalism style, they could have done it in a more traditional style and not put the raw documents out there.

Leo Laporte Right.

Dwight Silverman That would have been an antithesis of TechCrunch but that’s –

Leo Laporte I kind of like the idea of the raw documents but I felt sleazy reading them so I just stopped and I actually wasn’t going to cover the story at all, I think the metastory is interesting though, of what do you do? You know, what’s –

Dwight Silverman Yes. Yes.

Kevin Rose I think the most damaging information that was released though has to be what they thought of like Marissa Mayer from Google, who’s like the number – third person in charge over there and also what they thought of Microsoft and how they didn’t…

Leo Laporte That’s got to hurt.

Kevin Rose …with the ad deal. I mean these are huge partnerships and yeah, these are the relationships that are being damaged and I don’t know if they’re recoverable at this point.

Leo Laporte Yeah, that hurts a little bit. I mean we all say stuff in private meetings that we wouldn’t – wouldn’t really necessarily want the world to hear.

Kevin Rose Absolutely. And you take – you take notes in different ways than they are actually said and just like, like ‘never do business with that guy’ and just like you are just jotting something down and its taken out of context and…

Leo Laporte Right.

Kevin Rose …I don’t know. It’s rough.

Dwight Silverman Though one thing that – the thing that most intrigued me was Twitter’s ambition of being the pulse of the planet. And I kind of like that idea.

Leo Laporte I like that. They want a billion users.

Dwight Silverman I like that.

Leo Laporte But you know it was Jason Calacanis who said this on this show months ago, whether he had inside information or not I don’t know, of course he, like everybody else knows all these players. But he said the goal is to become the internet phonebook. If everybody in – he said, imagine if everybody in the world, and a billion people is for our – for this – for our purposes is the same number, had a Twitter account, that becomes how you identify the value of that to Twitter. And that’s clearly what they’re going for. And that’s by the way exactly what Facebook is going for.

Dwight Silverman Right.

Leo Laporte And everybody else.

Dwight Silverman Yeah, Facebook is think is more apt to become the phonebook of the internet at the moment before Twitter does.

Leo Laporte Yeah. I want to thank you Dwight for being here.

Dwight Silverman Well thank you. This has been a great show, this has been excellent.

Leo Laporte Always fun. Well, Dwight, you’re always great to have on. You can catch Dwight in the Houston Chronicle and of course his tech blog is a must read, it’s a great way to find out what's going on in the world of tech. In fact it’s how I got all the stories for today. I wasn’t here this week, no problem, I went to and your link rolls are just great, I read them all the time, religiously, always a great source of information and great –

Dwight Silverman That is an honor coming from the President of the Internet.

Leo Laporte You’re now the Director of Information.

Dwight Silverman I want to be the – I want to be the Secretary of the Inferior.

Leo Laporte Okay. Deal. Kevin Rose who can have any job he wants, it’s great to have you. What was – give us one memorable moment from your tea tour of China.

Kevin Rose Yeah, let me show you something, I – this is a pu erh tea cake, look at how huge that thing is.

Leo Laporte It’s about the size of a pizza pie.

Kevin Rose Yeah, and I actually hand pressed these from tea that we picked ourselves.

Leo Laporte You picked the tea and what kind of tea is that?

Kevin Rose It’s called pu-erh tea. Yeah it’s the only tea that can be aged like wine. So this cake can be aged up to 50, 60, 70 years.

Leo Laporte How long are you going to – are you going to keep it or are you going to drink it?

Kevin Rose I’ll chip away at it over time. But like – let me show you one other one, this one here…

Leo Laporte They allowed you to bring these back, did you have to do a deal with customs, did Tim Ferriss have to grease some palms, what happened there?

Kevin Rose Yeah, no they just let you bring them through. This little guy is about 15-years old, and it’s about – I don’t know, $1,200, something like that.

Leo Laporte What?

Kevin Rose Yeah.

Dwight Silverman Woah.

Leo Laporte What? That’s like gold.

Kevin Rose It’s pretty crazy.

Leo Laporte 1,200 bucks, with that…

Dwight Silverman Tea is outrageously expensive.

Kevin Rose The good stuff is just insanely expensive and it’s like wine, it gets better with time.

Leo Laporte Well, what does it taste like? I mean, have you had some of that $1,200 tea?

Kevin Rose Yeah, I mean, it’s very – pu-erh tea is typically very chocolaty, very forest-like, woodsy – woody.

Leo Laporte Tastes like dirt is what you’re saying?

Kevin Rose It’s an acquired taste.

Leo Laporte Taste like dirt. $1,200 an ounce dirt.

Kevin Rose That’s right.

Leo Laporte Oh, Kevin…

Dwight Silverman Party at Kevin’s house.

Leo Laporte …I admire anybody who follows a passion to any – to that degree. It doesn’t matter what the passion is. Tea is not a bad passion to have, I can understand that

Kevin Rose No, I like beer, so you got to have that balance right…

Leo Laporte I love tea, I completely understand that. My greatest disappointment was when I was in China, mostly it was Lipton.

Kevin Rose Oh! That’s too bad.

Leo Laporte I know, isn’t that awful? But we did go, we went up to Guilin, they did grow tea as well as – on the real steep hill side you can’t grow kumquats, so they grow tea. And I was going to bring some back. Our guide bought a brick and I thought I wouldn’t be able to get it through customs, so next time…

Kevin Rose Oh! Yeah, I brought a whole – actually I threw away clothes as I was traveling so that I could fill up my suitcase with tea, so.

Leo Laporte You got to come up here and bring a little...

Kevin Rose Next time I come to TWiT, I’ll bring you some for sure.

Leo Laporte A little tiny bit – I don’t – you don’t have to bring much. One cup is all I want to taste.

Kevin Rose All right, fair enough, done.

Leo Laporte Great to have you Kevin. Kevin at and of course watch Diggnation every week at And are you going on the road anytime – on the road, you just got back from China, but are you bringing Diggnation on the road again soon?

Kevin Rose We’re doing a Patron train where we get on the train and ride it from San Diego and that’s next weekend for –

Leo Laporte Patron like Patrón Tequila?

Kevin Rose Yeah, they’re sponsoring an episode, so it should be a crazy one.

Leo Laporte You’re going to get on a train and go to Tequila Land?

Kevin Rose Pretty much, yeah. It’s like Candyland but with alcohol.

Leo Laporte I want your life.

Dwight Silverman Kevin, come, do one in Houston. Come do a Digg town hall in Houston. It would make it big.

Kevin Rose I would love to do one in Houston, that would be awesome.

Leo Laporte Remember where we did the Screen Savers in Austin, it was the best thing, it was so much fun.

Kevin Rose Yeah, Austin was so much fun.

Leo Laporte Houston would be great.

Dwight Silverman Don’t come in August.

Leo Laporte It’s like 90 – no they had a little rain, they had a little rain today. So, it’s a little cool.

Well, guys it’s great to have you on. I really appreciate it. Kevin Rose, Dwight Silverman. I’m Leo Laporte. We thank you all for being here. I’m glad to be back, we’ll see you next week. Another TWiT is in the can.

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