TWiT 206/Transcript

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Episode 206


This transcript is provided by our friends at Pods in Print

Leo Laporte Bandwidth for this week in TECH is provided by AOL Music and where you can get free MP3s, exclusive interviews and more. This is TWiT, this week in TECH, Episode 206 for August 3, 2009, Mold Happens.

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This is TWiT; this week in TECH, the show that covers all things technological joining us right away. The soon to be proud papa Mr. Jason Calacanis. Hello Jason

Jason Calacanis Yeah yes, yes.

Leo Laporte Hello. Congratulations, now you – this is unusual because – I don’t even have known you for sometime. I don’t know your wife’s name. I’ve never seen a picture of her. You’re very private about your personal life.

Jason Calacanis I am very public about my personal life. I am very private about her personal life.

Leo Laporte Yeah, that -- I get it..

Jason Calacanis Other people around me so – I like to live transparently but and sort of put myself out there but I always sort of give my wife the ability to – do it when she is ready and how she wants to and…

Leo Laporte Oh yeah, that’s your choice. I mean it shouldn’t – it should be her choice too if she wants to do that or not.

Jason Calacanis Right and she just starting to get warmed up to Facebook and Twitter and stuff like that so she’ll probably de-cloak at some moment in time – certainly when the baby arrives on December 10.

Leo Laporte So when is the baby due – December 10th okay, that’s a good…

Jason Calacanis December 10th, it’s a little girl and…

Leo Laporte And a girl, do you know her name yet or are you still, I’m sure not?

Jason Calacanis Well my wife does the naming in the family. She came up with the bulldogs names which are Taurus and Fondue.

Leo Laporte Did a very good job – well Taurus is good, Fondue is a little weird.

Jason Calacanis Yeah Fondue is definitely weird. That’s the [ph] part. Don’t take it personal girl.

Leo Laporte Yeah it is funny because I know lot more about your bulldogs than I do about your wife. I don’t know, I don’t know what that means either.

Jason Calacanis Yeah. Well they like to live in public the bulldogs.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Jason Calacanis The bull dogs are out there. They have Twitter accounts, and fonduecalcanis. But she, my wife has a name and it’s, I am warming up to it now. She likes the name London, London Calacanis and I was like…

Leo Laporte Wow that’s interesting

Jason Calacanis What, I’d never heard…

Peter Rojas I hope you reserved the domain name.

Jason Calacanis

Jesus Christ thanks for doing that on the air.

Leo Laporte Oh you haven’t done that.

Jason Calacanis Oh gosh...

Leo Laporte Oh I, where’s my 40 second dump I can’t delay it. It’s

Jason Calacanis Oh, dump it…

Leo Laporte Oh, it’s, forget you heard that kids, stop, stop, stop. But now we have a wonderful bunch of people who would not dreamt of squatting on that so ..

Jason Calacanis Yes. I will be on GoDaddy in about 10 minutes getting it.

Leo Laporte In fact if you want, I will give you five minutes to go get it.

Jason Calacanis No, no, no it’s totally okay. You can introduce Peter and I’ll get it, but no. So yeah, so we’re saying maybe London Calacanis is it maybe it’s Sundance Calacanis maybe it’s something else. I let her come up with the names and I sort of…

Leo Laporte I like London. I like London.

Jason Calacanis It’s definitely starting…

Leo Laporte It’s a little like Paris though.

Jason Calacanis Well that is the one thing and Brooklyn right because one of -- that soccer player’s kid is…

Leo Laporte Brooklyn.

Jason Calacanis Named after a city but – yeah Beckham, Becks.

Leo Laporte Becks, call him Beckham. Beckham Calacanis

Jason Calacanis Becks.

Peter Rojas Well you – you’re from Brooklyn, call your kid Brooklyn.

Jason Calacanis That is historical blended. London Calacanis is already taken.

Leo Laporte Oh no.

Jason Calacanis Yeah. There you go

Leo Laporte No well I guess you better change the name.

Peter Rojas Yeah you cant choose that name now.

Jason Calacanis I guess well London’s out, sorry baby.

Leo Laporte Sorry couldn’t get the domain

Peter Rojas I kind of feel sorry for whoever wasted the like $8 on that.

Leo Laporte No, no I don’t – I think somebody got it before. Don’t you think?

Jason Calacanis I have so I can do

Leo Laporte You think somebody got Calacanis – you mean between now and the time you mentioned it.

Jason Calacanis I can tell you right now who got it it. It was registered on July 31.

Leo Laporte Oh you sons of – wait a minute, that’s three days ago.

Jason Calacanis July 31st?

Leo Laporte That’s three days ago.

Jason Calacanis By somebody named John Humphrey.

Leo Laporte Wait a minute. You told somebody else.

Jason Calacanis Oh you know what; I did say it on my show that we were thinking London.

Leo Laporte Oh …

Jason Calacanis Oh, look at this guy, he is from, I wonder if he did this as a favor to me or if I’m going to have to go beat the living…

Peter Rojas Hold him hostage.

Leo Laporte You know what they do. They do that and then when you complain they say, oh I did it as a favor.

Jason Calacanis Yeah well this person will have done it as a favor or else he’ll be run over by an orange electric car.

Leo Laporte Also in the studio, another proud papa, I am really glad to have Peter Rojas seen to the studio with us.

Peter Rojas Thanks for having me.

Leo Laporte It’s great to have you.

Peter Rojas It’s really good to be actually here in the studio.

Leo Laporte Yeah is it, is it different somehow than you thought?

Peter Rojas It’s everything I imagined and more

Leo Laporte Well, how about the smell? What do you think of that? No, no never – don’t say that.

Peter Rojas Wow.

Leo Laporte Peter has got a one year old.

Peter Rojas I do. He actually will be one next week.

Leo Laporte Congratulations on that.

Peter Rojas Thank you.

Leo Laporte So it’s a – there is something in the water. It was – somebody on Twitter just the other day said maybe it was Scoble, all these people are having babies. And there are a lot of babies in the web2.0 world.

Peter Rojas Wow! And then the 1.0 world…

Leo Laporte Really?

Peter Rojas And the rest of the world.

Leo Laporte Oh, the other world, you mean with real people?

Peter Rojas IRL.

Leo Laporte Peter is the founder of a new site called He’s been doing the gdgt podcast with Ryan Block for over a year now.

Peter Rojas Actually, almost a year, it’s been about 11 months.

Leo Laporte Oh! I didn’t realize all right. And of course with this fellow here, was the founder of Engadget.

Peter Rojas Yeah.

Leo Laporte Was Jason in on it at the beginning?

Peter Rojas Yeah, yeah. It was something that we did together, and before that I started Gizmodo.

Leo Laporte Hey, Jason. Go to It says, congratulations Jason! This domain is a present for you and your wife.

Jason Calacanis Oh! Oh, this guy is a mensch, domainnoob.

Leo Laporte Oh, this is the guy that did the chocolate covered grasshoppers.

Jason Calacanis Is it really?

Leo Laporte Oh, no, no, no. He says, like the guy.

Jason Calacanis Oh! That’s cool. I just e-mailed them…

Leo Laporte That’s really nice.

Jason Calacanis That’s kind of a cool thing,

Leo Laporte Thank you, John.

Jason Calacanis Thank you – ah, what a guy.

Leo Laporte See, that’s sweet, that’s sweet. You have nice audience. That was a twist, This Week in Startups.

Jason Calacanis It was on This Week in Startups. Yeah, I did a live version of twist at the Twist Up event in LA, which is some local event. But the show is going great and of course and thank you again for letting me use the This WEEK in trademark, not that it’s your trademark but your – you know whatever.

Leo Laporte We all thank Mel Allen for that, actually.

Jason Calacanis Yeah, you’re doing This Week in Google, did I see that on TWiT? With Jeff Jarvis, wow!

Leo Laporte Just started that with Jeff, and Gina Trapani.

Jason Calacanis Wow! Those are two big heavy hitters.

Leo Laporte Oh! It’s a good show. We just did our first show yesterday and I am really excited. I think it’s – it was going to be Google and The Cloud. But This Week in the Google and The Cloud was a little too much. So I just – we shortened it.

Jason Calacanis It’s a mouthful.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Jason Calacanis I mean, it’s like This Week in Google and of course anything related to Google but it’s good because people can really droll down and to add sense Gmail whatever that minutiae which you can’t get into on this WEEK in TECH.

Leo Laporte Well, it’s perfect because Gina is a developer. She started Lifehacker, so she is certainly a productivity expert, but she’s also written – she wrote Better Gmail, she has written a lot of plug-ins for Google. She is fantastic, also super knowledgeable. And then Jeff wrote What Would Google Do? So it’s kind of a good panel. And I am really forward to – we always have a rotating fourth on there.

Jason Calacanis Yeah.

Leo Laporte And I am really looking forward to the people that we are going to be able bring in like Clay Shirky and so forth. And of course, as many Google Mac cuts types as we can.

Jason Calacanis Well, they both have a great networks so that’s going to be great.

Leo Laporte Oh! Yeah, you know me; I will use anybody’s network. What am I doing here? I got Jason and Peter Rojas on – I mean, let’s talk about networking.

Peter Rojas If want to know where’s this week in Bing….

Leo Laporte TWiB?

Peter Rojas Bing. TWiB?

Leo Laporte Well, hat’s a good question, Jason launched this into our first story. Jason, you wrote a kind of a scathing column on your blog which I guess every once in a while you’ll blog if it’s – if the occasion arises, saying that Yahoo! just committed seppuku.

Jason Calacanis I sent it to my email newsletter and also when I write a big one like that they get picked up, I put on my blog because too people email me and say, can you send that to me. And it’s just, you know….

Leo Laporte I subscribe to them – anybody’s is allowed to do that, right?

Jason Calacani Yeah, it’s, with an s, jasonslist. But there’s about 16,000 people on it, probably about every three of four I would post it to a blog just because I want to get it out there, and of course, my friends like Mike Arrington will post it without me giving permission and not take it down if I ask him to.

Leo Laporte So you might as well just post it.

Jason Calacani But it’s sort of becoming a problem if I don’t post it. Everybody else is like, it’s news worthy and it’s fair use to use your content. I am like, okay whatever but anyway…..

Leo Laporte It’s technically legal but I mean, it’s not very nice.

Jason Calacanis Whatever, with friends like these….

Leo Laporte Hey, you know what, just do what I do. Screw you Arrington, just say that.

Jason Calacanis Screw you Arrington. You – best moment in TWiT history.

Leo Laporte I am living off that. I am getting t-shirts, I am getting hats.

Jason Calacanis Oh! Absolutely, absolutely. But anyway with the Yahoo! deal for those of us who’ve been in the industry for over 10 years, we remember that the first time any of us really used Google was at, right?

Yahoo! gave up their search business and put Google in there and it was powered by Google, the little logo was up in the right-hand top – top of the right-hand corner. And that’s how we learned what Google was. That’s how the world learned about this incredible new search engine and of course after a number of years of doing that they switched over to the mother ship, and the rest is history.

And it’s my premise that search is the most important business, the first most important business of the 21st century. Sure there will be other businesses as we get through the century but this is the biggest one right now. Highest profit margins, most upside and it’s still very early. It’s a global race for search et cetera.

And now you have Yahoo! which should have learned their lesson that the way you win in search is by innovating like Google innovated. And instead of innovating they just gave it to Microsoft and Microsoft of course is more than happy to take the second place position and put hundreds of millions of dollars, billions of dollars to work to innovate. And if you look, Yahoo! has really done very little innovative in the last couple of years with search with the exception of Yahoo! BOSS, which is a very interesting project, a sort of open-source search and make it a service.

But if you look at Microsoft …..

Leo Laporte What happens to BOSS, by the way now that it’s Bing?

Jason Calacanis I’ve actually been talking to my friends at Microsoft because I know the people who are involved in the deal and they contacted me after I wrote my newsletter and I said, listen, I am very serious about BOSS; this is a really big win for you guys, keep it going. And they told me sort of off the record, like, we understand it’s important.

Leo Laporte BOSS is an API into the -- what was the Yahoo! Search.

Jason Calacanis Yes

Leo Laporte But they have to somehow import that over the Bing.

Jason Calacanis Well, both searches will be consolidated. So there you take the best of Yahoo search and Bing…

Leo Laporte Okay so they just don’t turn off the Yahoo spiders.

Jason Calacanis I don’t believe so. I think they are going to look very deeply what’s the best of breed there for each ones. There may be some features of each that they want to keep…

Leo Laporte Explain to me why then the Yahoo gets the sales side of it? Is that the best of breed?

Jason Calacanis Well Yahoo has a lot of sales people and Yahoo wants to be able to sell both things. They want to be able to sell display ads which is going to be their big mission and also sell the search ads. If you can only sell only one of those things, it should not be at tremendous disadvantage to Google because Google is going to be selling both.

Leo Laporte So Yahoo keeps the content side, sells display ads into that. Since they are already doing that, they can continue to sell the ads into the search.

Jason Calacanis Yup.

Leo Laporte Microsoft’s gain out of this is they now are number two in search. There is no number three really.

Jason Calacanis No.

Leo Laporte And what does it give them? 30% share? 20% share?

Jason Calacanis In the 20s probably and…

Leo Laporte I quote you, you know in fact I quoted you yesterday on This Week in Google saying you told me I think I am right a billion dollar percentage point roughly.

Jason Calacanis Yeah and that’s what people believe in terms of the market cap of each company and if you look at what Microsoft did and we have been taking about it on this WEEK in TECH for a couple of weeks now.

Leo Laporte Couple of years it seems.

Jason Calacanis Well just in – yeah, exactly -- with Bing and since the launch. What did they do? They brought a promising young startup power set. They spent a couple of $100 million or so on…

Leo Laporte And you said by the way Yahoo should have done that. Yahoo missed a bet there.

Jason Calacanis And they innovated and so Microsoft proved very easily that if you put a little bit of resources towards something you can have the big impact and what Yahoo do. While they were negotiating with Microsoft they don’t raise -- right use the poker metaphor –they just will sit there and Microsoft develop their hand and get stronger and stronger and their position gets weaker and weaker. You have to innovate this industry that’s the one thing we have learned over and over again whether it’s in consumer electronics which Peter covers or more the web stuff which I cover. If you are not innovating you are dying and Palm had that problem for a while and Microsoft had that problem for a while. Oracle, Nintendo, you look at the other competitors, Apple to Microsoft. Why are they beating them? Why is Nintendo have more Wii’s than Xbox’s? Why does—you know the iPhone crushing it and the MP3 player iPod crushing it and Oracles databases doing so well? It’s because they innovate and Yahoo stopped. It is the most basic lesson of our industry.

Leo Laporte Is that what you tell us startups and you tell entrepreneurs and businessmen who come to you, continue to innovate or you die? Is it like a shark you have to keep swimming?

Jason Calacanis Absolutely 100%.

Peter Rojas You have to be scared to death.

Leo Laporte Really?

Peter Rojas All the time. Paranoia.

Leo Laporte Wasn’t that Andy Grove book only the…

Peter Rojas Only the Paranoid Survive.

Leo Laporte Only the Paranoid Survive yeah.

Peter Rojas It’s true I mean you have to be constantly worried and never be complacent and I think it becomes very difficult at a big company because when you start off and you’re an entrepreneur you start something and Jason and I have both started a few things now. You are very hungry, very motivated and the stakes are very high for you.

Leo Laporte Right.

Peter Rojas Because a failure for you is a very personal thing. Once companies start to get really big and start to have all these people they weren’t there at the beginning and don’t really have a lot of stake.

Leo Laporte They start screwing around.

Peter Rojas They start screwing around and they become – they start to look at it as a job. And I think it’s difficult and I think one of the reasons why you look at like Apple for example being able to consistently innovate and drive the market is because, Steve Jobs doesn’t need any more money.

Leo Laporte Is it a corporate culture that you inculcate?

Peter Rojas It’s partly corporate culture and partly because you have to have one person or handful of people at the top who are relentless and who…

Leo Laporte Jobs is relentless.

Peter Rojas Jobs is relentless. It’s not about the money anymore. It’s just about being right.

Leo Laporte It’s about winning. It’s about being right, yeah.

Peter Rojas Exactly.

Leo Laporte That’s interesting. How did you create a corporate culture like that?

Jason Calacanis Well it’s all talent. I mean if you.

Leo Laporte That’s the skill.

Jason Calacanis Absolutely, I think, I mean if you look at Weblogs, Inc., the key thing I did right was getting Brian Alvey who is the tech side of the business and Peter Ross who is the editorial side of the business and Sean Gold who was our sales guy. My job as a CEO was to find the most talented people and get every obstacle possible out of their way to let them do what they naturally do which is be great. And if you look at Yahoo you know Josh from Delicious left, Katrina yeah she left from Flicker. I mean they couldn’t keep any of the talent there and the stories I heard from folks in that sort of genre, the entrepreneurs, were – have all these great ideas for Delicious 2.0, I always have great ideas for Flickr 2.0, I don’t want to say that these people said it, it was other people but it might have been them but I banging my head against the wall. I cannot get any product released. They couldn’t release product at Yahoo and there was no person at the top saying these are the 10 most important things. And you remember the peanut butter manifesto which was what the hell are we are doing here? We are doing like 5% better on a 100 things. What are the 10 things we really need to focus on? And Yahoo had I think two of the most important assets in the future of search. One is Delicious which is by the way human-powered search, exactly what I am trying to do at Mahalo. And number two was Flickr which is image-based search and video-based search which could not have been a really viable competitor to YouTube in my mind with their – if they didn’t limit the video uploads and stuff like that. The image search on Flickr is better than any other image search in the world I think, in terms of high-quality images and there’re more creative comments, images on there.

So they own image search. They could have owned video search if they had executed better and when have you ever see any of these products promoted properly on Yahoo homepage? Never.

Peter Rojas So they did this really half-hearted attempt to integrate Delicious and Flickr into search and it wasn’t done very well and there was no sense that anyone at Yahoo! really cared at all.

Leo Laporte Isn’t some of this though Google doing some of this too, I think, you know Dodgeball and Jaiku and a quite a few properties that Google acquired, they have just died on the vine as well.

Peter Rojas Yeah, I mean that…

Leo Laporte Is Google going to prey to the same problem that Yahoo! Is?

Peter Rojas Well, I think if you look at the lifecycle of any business that, I think, Clay Christensen talks about this innovators dilemma, it becomes very difficult on an institutional level for any big company to really be able to identify the thing it’s going to kill it, right.

Leo Laporte Right.

Peter Rojas It’s like a dialectic. You can’t, it’s like your blind spot, you can’t figure out the thing which is going to end up over toppling it.

Leo Laporte Right.

Peter Rojas Very difficult. We see the same thing at Microsoft, right.

Leo Laporte Well, that’s the thing that I think is interesting about Microsoft-Yahoo! deal as it’s really two dinosaurs meeting. Is there anything you could do to re-invent Yahoo! at this point to make it – to revitalize it?

Peter Rojas Well, I mean, one of the things I thought was interesting is how much dominance Yahoo! has in financial stuff, Yahoo! Finance, Mail – Yahoo! Mail.

Leo Laporte Look at that New York Times article. There was a great New York Times article, I probably put in my Delicious things where they are, I will give you an example, OMG, you never hear of OMG. This has twice the traffic of TMZ. I’ve never even heard of it.

Jason Calacanis Yeah, OMG is their graphical celebrity gossip site.

Leo Laporte Looks like the National Enquirer, doesn’t have an RSS feed.

Jason Calacanis [ph] is incredible.

Leo Laporte Number one.

Jason Calacanis News, I think they’re number one at…

Leo Laporte Yahoo! Mail is like three times the next biggest e-mail system.

Jason Calacanis It’s huge and…

Leo Laporte Well, that means they are a profitable, I mean they are a successful company, isn’t it?

Peter Rojas Well, on some level but I think it’s funny how AOL kind of figured it out. They need to take the strategy which AOL has adopted, which has become a great content business and figure how to create that…

Leo Laporte That’s what they are doing…

Peter Rojas Very cheap…

Leo Laporte By the AOL is not a good example at this point.

Peter Rojas Well, but that’s the strategy that AOL is adopting and I think Yahoo! has a chance, if they are going to survive, I mean they have to figure out. If they are doing finance, great. If they are doing the news and sports stuff, great. If they are doing mail great, they need to figure out how to be a great – great at those things and better at those things.

Leo Laporte This is actually from [ph] gig of Jordan Golson went through Yahoo! News number one 50 million uniques compared to New York Times’ 45, Yahoo! Finance 20 million uniques, AOL Money 14, Yahoo! Sports 25 million uniques, ESPN 21. OMG doubled the traffic of TMZ. Yahoo! Games in a tie with EA Online. Yahoo! Mail two-thirds of the total web mail market. I mean that’s a company, boy, if you said to me without any names would you like this company. I would say, yeah baby, that’s a stunner.

Jason Calacanis The problem is the Google envy. When you put yourself up against Google which is…

Leo Laporte Well, that’s a mistake, isn’t?

Jason Calacanis Well, that was a mistake. They were chasing Google and Peter spent a little time at AOL. [inaudible] we are not, AOL were not trying to beat Google. Yahoo! has [ph] ankling themselves because they are never going to catch up to Google. They don’t have the same DNA, they don’t have the AdSense Ad Network, and they are going to always be looked at as a sort of an also-ran when they should have been just great at what their good at which is communications, content aggregation and just doubled down on those things. However, a little investment and integration of search and this could be a much different story and Yahoo! had a ton of cash, a ton of equity. In terms of currency, they could have bought 20 companies over the last two years and if 18 of them don’t work out but two of them turn into a Flickr or OMG or a Facebook, then they are in the money, you only need to get 1 out of 10 to hit and they didn’t do any of that stuff. It was a pure lack of leadership and…

Leo Laporte Is it too late?

Jason Calacanis Yeah, probably. If you, I mean, it will still exist and it’s still going to make multiple billions of dollars a year, will it break out? I don’t know Carol Bartz enough to know. Obviously, she is a good deal maker which is why they brought her in is to get this deal finally done, which remember I predicted last year when John Dvorak and I were arguing over it not getting done and I said it has to get done.

Leo Laporte Well, this isn’t quite that same deal. That was an acquisition deal. This is…

Jason Calacanis Well, yeah but – even this is essentially acquiring most important piece. So it is a high…

Leo Laporte Steve Ballmer said nothing was sold here. This isn’t an acquisition. It is. You say it is.

Jason Calacanis And mean basically what they are saying is…

Peter Rojas Colonization.

Jason Calacanis Yeah. It’s borg-esque.

Leo Laporte Invasion.

Peter Rojas They’ve colonized Yahoo!

Jason Calacanis Yeah exactly. The Silons have nuked the planet but it’s not really an acquisition. They basically took everything they wanted.

Leo Laporte Ballmer says “nothing got bought, nothing got sold” but the partnership in and of itself creates economic value. It creates an immediate opportunity for synergy, I hate that word.

Jason Calacanis It was the synergy in Microsoft stock going up and Yahoo!’s going down.

Leo Laporte Yeah, that’s interesting, yeah.

Jason Calacanis I think they transferred exactly $2 billion…

Leo Laporte Really.

Jason Calacanis Of market cap from one company to the other.

Leo Laporte Isn’t that interesting? Right there, there you go. I guess that’s the market saying who bought who.

Jason Calacanis If the market is generally right when people put big bets on things – but I have met the investors who own single to double to triple digits, I mean it’s like 1 to like 5%, let’s say, of Yahoo! and I have talked to them over the years. These are the big institutions that hold big positions in these companies and they were tired and they were – they have been hearing the story that they are going to re-invent itself and do something [ph] Terri Samwell and Jerry Yang and then this. If you look at the great companies, Steve Jobs, Larry Ellison, Larry and Sergey and Eric, Steve Jobs if I didn’t mention him, Jeff Bezos, probably the most underrated CEO of that group, all of those guys are the founders who are still innovating and going to work everyday. And when your founder is not there innovating, you lose the culture, you don’t have the people and then it starts to end, that’s the death kneel.

Leo Laporte Right, we are going to give Peter a chance now to talk about gadgets because there is a gadget story also in here and that’s the Apple iPhone rejecting Google Voice. There was a third party Google Voice application which Apple kicked out. It had been in there and then Google tried to put its own application in there. It had submitted it six weeks ago, Apple the other day says, no now the FCC says Google, Apple, AT&T you got some explaining to do. Their real question I think, the fundamental question is how much did AT&T influence Apple.

Peter Rojas Yeah, I think that it’s a very hot topic right now and very big question and it’s a legitimate concern I think that if it turns out that it’s AT&T dictating what sort of applications and devices can be used in its network. That’s kind of an issue, I mean the FCC is sort of...

Leo Laporte That’s verboten. That’s been an issue for the FCC. They really want to open up these phones.

Peter Rojas They do want to open these things, but I think that the thing we have to separate out the issue between, I think Apple has the right to determine what sort of services and applications run on its device. That’s a separate issue than AT&T determining what services and devices run on its network, because the FCC, their job is to keep the networks open and to make sure that there is, we don’t have true network neutrality but there is, because these are public airways, the FCC has a mandate to make sure that there is fairness there.

Leo Laporte Right.

Peter Rojas But I think that’s a different issue than a handset maker being required to install or disable certain features on a device. And so I think there is a, that’s I think what the FCC needs to investigate. I think Apple is well within its rights to determine whatever goes into the appstore. I think they are wrong to reject something because I think from a business standpoint I think its wrong and I think again like openness...

Leo Laporte We were talking before this show about our inherent bias and I completely agree with you, Peter that openness beats closed proprietary.

Peter Rojas That’s why I use an android phone because I philosophically want to support something like that.

Leo Laporte That’s a hard one. I have an android phone and would I sure like to, if an android, I would like to use an android phone, but the iPhone has so much...

Peter Rojas They are getting better.

Leo Laporte But, using the iPhone is kind of like living in Mussolini’s Italy.

Peter Rojas Trains run on time.

Leo Laporte The trains run on time and there is some bad stuff going on.

Peter Rojas You know what happened to Mussolini?

Leo Laporte I know.

Peter Rojas They hung him upside down in the square and kicked him in the head.

Jason Calacanis He will, I mean it’s...

Leo Laporte That’s going to hurt.

Jason Calacanis If this is true that open wins and I agree with that to a certain extent, but I think it’s got that sort of Cory Doctorow absoluteness to [ph] babies it isn’t always going to happen because if that was true, why is iTunes still crushing it and there is no iPod competitor even though there are better devices than the iPod.

Leo Laporte I don’t think we are saying openness wins.

Peter Rojas I think philosophically that’s what I prefer, I guess...

Leo Laporte In fact openness frequently doesn’t work sad to say, but in the same way that fascists often beat democracies, it doesn’t mean they are better.

Jason Calacanis Yeah.

Peter Rojas But I think, I mean in this specific instances a lot of people are angry at Apple and, I mean look Mike Arrington was very public in saying, I am going to stop using the iPhone because I disagree with this policy and I am take my, I mean I’m going to go with my pocketbook and I think that is the appropriate response. I think if AT&T said you couldn’t use an android device on their network because of Google Voice that will be a really serious problem. I think that is something that the FCC should step in and take out.

Leo Laporte Currently you can, you can buy...

Peter Rojas Absolutely, you can buy an unlocked G1 and you put on AT&T, I know people that do it.

Leo Laporte But why, well I guess T-Mobile is not the strongest...

Peter Rojas It depends on where you live, also what kind of service you get, but I think if you don’t like, what -- Apple has the right, I mean there are lots of phones that don’t work with Google Voice at all, right because they don’t allow applications, they are dumb phones. So should the FCC mandate that all those handset makers are required to enable applications on their...

Leo Laporte That was I my one qualm about this, I am not sure what the FCC to tell a business, how it can run its business. On the other hand AT&T is regulated by the FCC.

Peter Rojas Well that’s what I’m saying, the two you have to separate out the Apple versus AT&T and that’s what we need to get to the bottom of is, was it AT&T mandating to Apple that you cannot allow this application.

Leo Laporte It seems pretty clear from the letters TechCrunch published that the FCC’s real interest was in AT&T.

Peter Rojas They wanted to get to the bottom of that.

Leo Laporte But there were two paragraphs at the end of the letter that they sent to Apple saying that they had nothing to do with AT&T, that said well how many applications have you kicked out, how many applications have you barred. We want to know what the reasons are you barred them. There is more going on...

Peter Rojas I am not sure that I want the government determining....

Leo Laporte What apps are available? If you want a closed phone look at the sidekick, nobody complained that the sidekick had...

Peter Rojas You can’t get Google Voice on the sidekick.

Leo Laporte And it’s a smart phone, relatively. It’s smarter than a razor.

Jason Calacanis I have a question? I have Skype on my iPhone now.

Leo Laporte Well, that’s an example.

Jason Calacanis Why is Skype allowed and not Google Voice, because I don’t use Google Voice. Is there some difference in the service that one will be allowed and not the other.

Peter Rojas Well I know that Google Voice, at least on the android version of the app, I didn’t – obviously didn’t test the iPhone version. It doesn’t run over Voip. There’s not an IP connection for the call, you are actually using...

Leo Laporte They call you.

Peter Rojas They basically call you and use your cell phone minutes.

Leo Laporte I don’t know but my guess would be that the issue that AT&T had was free SMS.

Peter Rojas That might have been part of it.

Leo Laporte Because that’s a big profit setter. Well that’s true there are and they are on the iPhone. There are free SMS applications...

Jason Calacanis That’s why the feeling that it was a little bit AT&T and a little bit Apple in this decision they both determine that Google was a strategic threat.

Leo Laporte Because yeah, Skype works great with Wi-Fi on the iPhone. You can’t use it on 3G. I am sure that was AT&T’s request.

Peter Rojas Yeah probably.

Leo Laporte Because that would be then bypath, using their data network to bypass their voice network.

Jason Calacanis How does tethering play into this because shouldn’t tethering be my right or not? You know, it seems like it’s a related issue.

Peter Rojas It’s a god question. I know that carrier solutions tend to just charge you an extra 15, $20 a month on top of the plan.

Leo Laporte AT&T and says it will be doing that.

Peter Rojas Yes.

Leo Laporte But it hasn’t yet done that. I mean I have found…

Peter Rojas Sprint does that all the time.

Leo Laporte Sprint does it; a lot of carriers do it.

Peter Rojas Yes.

Leo Laporte T-Mobile by the way allows tethering, says it’s part of the deal; you get bandwidth so you can use it any way you want.

Peter Rojas Yes. Generally speaking. I mean this is the sort of thing that – the thing that we’re really not talking about but should be is, is the wireless industry competitive enough in this country? We have only four major network carriers and it’s just really two.

Leo Laporte Four that act like four monopolies, by the way.

Peter Rojas Yes. I mean, but – when you think about it, it’s really AT&T and Verizon are the big…

Leo Laporte Because it’s CDMA versus GSM or…

Peter Rojas No, it’s just that, I don’t, I mean, I am not sure that’s part of it; I think that what it is, is that you know, just typical how industries go you get – they have a snowball effect...

Leo Laporte So Verizon and AT&T are dominant and…

Peter Rojas They are dominant and Sprint and T-Mobile are smaller.

Leo Laporte They are just tiny.

Peter Rojas And there is probably not enough competition, but I mean even to me like the bigger…

Leo Laporte I think the problem is not competition, it’s collusion. I think these guys know what the other guy does; you know David Pogue was – I talked to David earlier today, he is in the – you know I got a campaign going on The Times to – it’s kind of a silly trivial thing but it isn’t that trivial that explains it to restore the beep.

Peter Rojas Yes.

Leo Laporte His problem is that all four carriers now have 15 second announcement after you say hi this is Leo, please leave me a message, that goes on and on and yes, it’s just 15 seconds but he estimates it could be as much as half a billion dollars in revenue for Verizon, because of the extra call time involved and…

Peter Rojas You burn up minutes.

Leo Laporte You burn up minutes and only Sprint allows you to turn off but the interesting thing is it started with Verizon; I remember it bugged the heck out of it because Verizon did this and nobody else did and all the other guys go, oh, look Verizon is making some money, let’s all do it.

Peter Rojas Yes.

Leo Laporte So there is this kind of implicit collusion going on as well, right?

Peter Rojas Well, absolutely and I think that…

Leo Laporte If they all – if Verizon charges 20 cents for SMS, okay, we all do.

Peter Rojas Yes, and there is really no reason to charge very much at all for SMS.

Leo Laporte You know at 20 cents a message it’s $1,500 a megabyte.

Peter Rojas Yes.

Leo Laporte It’s the most expensive bandwidth available anywhere.

Peter Rojas It’s almost – so it’s almost impossible for them to even really assign a dollar value to the usage of the network.

Jason Calacanis Yes, because it’s also that the network is a fixed cost. They have a fixed cost…

Peter Rojas Yes. And once they build the network it doesn’t matter how much…

Jason Calacanis Or profit, yes, so I mean that’s a 100% profit on that, $1,500 a – whatever is the megabit.

Leo Laporte Well, in that case it should free.

Peter Rojas It should be free and I think they are worth…

Leo Laporte Jason, that’s…

Jason Calacanis How much do you pay for e-mail?

Leo Laporte Well, it’s good…

Jason Calacanis You know like, how much was the e-mail you sent today. I was the same price you paid for your web browsing; everything else should get a flat rate.

Peter Rojas Though I remember when I had Prodigy about 20 years ago, you got, I think 25 free messages and then after that it was 25 cents an e-mail.

Jason Calacanis Genius.

Peter Rojas Yes.

Jason Calacanis I actually would like to bring that back, do some of the e-mail…

Leo Laporte For spammers only. You know we are…

Peter Rojas I think we are…

Leo Laporte There was no prodigy spam problem when it was 25 cents a message.

Jason Calacanis They actually had it; there is a company called Goodmail who wanted to put economics on top of it, you remember AOL…

Leo Laporte Yes, it’s very controversial.

Jason Calacanis Yes, very controversial, but it was like a fraction of a penny but I guess the non-profits were like, wait a second, we have a million people on…

Leo Laporte Right.

Jason Calacanis This, you know, mailing list, an so looking at all these companies if we had to rank the most anti-competitive draconian evil companies in the technology space, is anybody even close to Apple, at this point?

Leo Laporte Well, you got to throw in the cable companies, you got to throw in the wireless companies, we have quite a large number of predatorial companies out there.

Jason Calacanis But, but infrastructure; let us put infrastructure on the side, because we know they are evil, that’s their infrastructure companies that…

Leo Laporte Is that true, they have to be?

Jason Calacanis Well, if AT&T are cable network…

Leo Laporte If they dig a ditch, if they dig a ditch they have to be bad guys!

Jason Calacanis Yes, I’ve dug some ditches in my life, I’ve buried some bodies, like in the casino sense of the word, you know, but putting aside those evil people, just technology companies, Google, Microsoft, Oracle, is there anybody who is more anti competitive and closed and – you know, forgetting how good they are with their products and how sexy they are, everybody would agree Apple is number one in terms of sex appeal, but in terms of just being closed and anti competitive, is anybody more anti competitive than apple.

Leo Laporte I’ve said this for years. I’ve said Apple has become the evil empire; and maybe they’ve always been but as they get bigger and more powerful it becomes more evident.

Peter Rojas Well, isn’t it funny how no one is really scared of Microsoft anymore?

Leo Laporte Yes, they used to be the evil empire.

Peter Rojas Eveyone used to be terrified that Microsoft was going to get into your market…

Leo Laporte Right.

Peter Rojas It’s almost kind of like…

Leo Laporte Nobody cares anymore.

Peter Rojas I’m not, I almost feel sorry.

Leo Laporte I do, I totally feel sorry. But that’s the business cycle, I think that’s a standard business cycle.

Peter Rojas But it is just kind of funny how the controls reversed.

Leo Laporte Nobody is dominant, yes.

Peter Rojas And I think what apple is doing is…

Leo Laporte When Apple was the underdog they’ve always done this.

Peter Rojas Yes.

Leo Laporte But when they were the underdog no big deal.

Peter Rojas Yes. Well, it’s because when you become – when you attain the sort of position or power or dominance in an industry and they are dominant in a handful of industries let’s say, you can sort of see them abusing their power, right, and it’s not, again you are right, it’s not a big deal when they were the underdog and they are doing things because you are like, well, you know, yes, they are close and yes, they are doing the things but they are not – they have to do these things to fight against Microsoft or whatever.

Leo Laporte Right.

Peter Rojas But, yes, I mean, it’s not encouraging, and I think that you know, it’s not clear to me whether all the issues like the complaints of iPhone app developers and the frustrations they are having is going to spill into a more general distaste amongst consumers, more generally speaking but you know we sort of saw – you sort of see how these things go right, where you start to sort of the early adopters and you start to see people getting a little bit frustrated. I think again Apple creates products that people love so much that they can get away with a lot but…

Leo Laporte They do get away with murder, but if you think about, if you think clearly about what the iTunes, iPod nexus is it’s absolutely monopolistic, and you know the EU and others have complained about this.

Peter Rojas Yes, I’m not sure how you break it up though.

Jason Calacanis I’m on [inaudible] because I have my new iPhone 3GS and I have all these audio books, wonderful audio books, I might add from Audible and I’m trying – I have some on my home computer and some on my office computer and then I buy some on my iPhone. How do you consolidate when you purchase on three different things, I can’t figure it out. And now I’m like, shouldn’t these all be in one locker somewhere. And I have to basically erase my phone at the office, come home and put those audio books on I want, erase it when I get to the office if I want to listen to those audio books. It’s making me insane. I’ve looked up all this information, there is no way to consolidate your libraries.

Leo Laporte I don’t know what is does with Audible, but when you buy a song on your iPhone, the first time you connect it to iTunes, it says “may I transfer this files over to iTunes” it becomes a part of iTunes.

Peter Rojas Yeah.

Leo Laporte I’m not sure what happens to the audio books. I don’t think that happens. But Audible works differently because the authentication system is through Audible. So you can copy those files. I don’t know how you get it off the iPhone. Don’t buy books on the iPhone, I guess.

Jason Calacanis Yeah. No, it’s not just Audible, but it’s also when you buy songs, if you are buying them on two different computers…

Leo Laporte Then you can transfer them, right? Just copy them?

Jason Calacanis Yeah, if they are not copy – if they don’t have copyright protection on them.

Leo Laporte Well, I mean, I’m not to defend Apple here. But you can log into up to five different computers with that same iTunes account. So you can play that song in five computers. Fortunately that’s gone away for music, not for video, not for TV shows.

Peter Rojas And now what people are staying with the Kindle, right, where people are complaining about they’ve synced their Kindle books to multiple devices, maybe they have an iPhone, an iPod Touch and a Kindle 1…

Leo Laporte DRM has got to die, this stuff sucks.

Peter Rojas Yeah, it’s – it’s...

Leo Laporte Just sucks.

Peter Rojas It’s creating really negative consumer experiences. And I think the thing, if you are Amazon for example, that the Kindle is so new, it’s so nascent as a platform, that the last thing you want to do is to create all these frustrations with people.

Leo Laporte But do they have a choice. I mean, isn’t it the publishers who are insisting…

Peter Rojas I think the publishers are, but I think…

Leo Laporte I mean look what happened when they – when they put on the reading book, the publishers complained that and immediately Amazon had to flip that switch that said that you can’t do the text to speech. I mean…

Peter Rojas Which is absurd.

Leo Laporte Just as Apple was kind of beholden to the music companies when iTunes first started, Amazon – well maybe not because Amazon sells a lot of books…

Peter Rojas Amazon has a lot of clout. But I think that the – I mean the book publishers are extremely conservative.

Leo Laporte We know this.

Peter Rojas Yeah.

Leo Laporte We know this. So, Jason, your point, yes, Apple is evil?

Jason Calacanis The most evil though. I think we should make it very…

Leo Laporte Two years ago, I will have to find this, but two years ago I warned – I said, I went on the radio, I said to millions of people, Apple is about to switch places with Microsoft as the evil empire.

Jason Calacanis Yeah, I remember, I remember you saying it. And I just think as an industry we have to put pressure on Apple and just like I think, like Mike Arrington’ step, I mean screw Mike Arrington, but I mean his step to …

Leo Laporte I already have, thank you.

Jason Calacanis Yeah. No, hey-oh.

Leo Laporte Hey.

Peter Rojas Keep it classy.

Leo Laporte You stay classy San Diego.

Jason Calacanis I was about to say, This Week in… So, yeah, it’s just as an industry we – I think we have to start putting some pressure on them to change their behavior. And one thing I’m wondering Steve – Peter since you know the people at Apple pretty well, is this a Steve Jobs, is his mind wired to closed systems, ease of use through the whole process? And does that the other guy – what's his name, Cook, whatever, who is going to take over…

Leo Laporte Tim Cook, the CFO, yeah.

Jason Calacanis Yeah. Do you think when Steve retires that Tim Cook will may be reevaluate some of these positions – draconian – heavily draconian positions on, we have to lock this thing down, and you can’t get an application on this without get approval from the App Store? I mean I’m a grown-up, I mean I should be able to put anything I want on my phone.

Peter Rojas I think, well I think as long as – even if Steve retires, he is still going to be on the Board, and he’s going to have a lot of influence…

Leo Laporte I spent a weekend with Steve Jobs once. It was a 4th of July weekend. He was still at NeXT, he hadn’t yet been – he wasn’t yet re-crowned King of Apple.

Jason Calacanis Yeah.

Leo Laporte But it was very interesting. I mean the guy is brilliant and he knows that he’s the smartest guy – he is one of those guys like Bill Gates – comes in a room, I’m the smartest guy in the room – it’s just a fact. And he acts that way, which comes off fairly arrogant. He’s also very aggressive. And I think that he has a killer instinct, I think he hit the nail on the head in the first place, this guy it’s not about money for him…

Jason Calacanis He has plenty of money.

Leo Laporte This guy doesn’t want to lose.

Jason Calacanis Yeah.

Leo Laporte And I think that he is very smart, smart enough to have figured it out a really brilliant play with the iTunes Store or the iPod, the closed system. You can -- put the layer of ease of use on top it, I know he does…

Jason Calacanis Yeah.

Leo Laporte I know that that’s key. It’s a well – it’s easier that way just as the trains ran on time in Italy. But ultimately that’s not what's going on for him. He wants to win at business.

Jason Calacanis Well, he has a very singular vision for how the stuff is supposed to be. And he is a perfectionist, we all know that. But I think he also has a – I mean he’s someone who has a really specific approach to this stuff. And he really values – he has created a very strong culture of secrecy at Apple. I know people who work at Apple and they tell me some pretty hilarious stories about what it’s like to work there about how…

Leo Laporte Yeah I can only imagine.

Peter Rojas … when you are in a room with – and you are working on something secret you have to flip a, like a flashing light, you know so that people know not to look over at your desk.

Leo Laporte

Do not look.

Peter Rojas Stuff like that.

Leo Laporte I’ve got the flashing light.

Peter Rojas And he’s really built, I mean, it’s almost kind of like a police state in a sense where like you don’t…

Leo Laporte Oh yeah. You know your phone is tapped.

Peter Rojas Everything is very – it’s very – vertically-oriented.

Leo Laporte I’ve talked to people who say we don’t look at Steve in the elevator, we don’t talk to Steve, we don’t want to attract his attention. He is like the eye of Mordor, you know, he’s like don’t let the, you know.

Peter Rojas Yeah I mean – and I think that’s why assume – I mean hoping that Tim Cook coming on as CEO might change things – it might not. And – but I think the thing is whatever...

Leo Laporte Well…

Peter Rojas Tim Cook might really think about things, he has definitely not let any of us know that.

Leo Laporte Right. And would it be as successful a company if Tim Cook says, let’s go more open, let’s be more relaxed, let’s be more fuzzy.

Peter Rojas That’s a tough question to answer. I think that – I think one of those things that we generally believe that open beats closed, but I think that if you can offer a closed and a really great experience you can get away with things.

Jason Calacanis Hold on a second, hold on a second. You are telling me the iPhone, if it was available on any network, would not be as successful as it is only on one. Or...

Leo Laporte That’s an interesting question.

Peter Rojas Well, that’s a different question then.

Jason Calacanis Or that the iPhone – the second one though is, or that the iPhone, if you could install any application on it including porn and other stuff that maybe Steve Jobs isn’t so big on, you – that wouldn’t be more successful? Of course it would be.

Peter Rojas Well, except that – I mean, I think from – if you talk – and not to defend it, because I obviously think that the iPhone should be completely opened. But I think what Apple’s perspective is, that if you open it up and it’s a phone and people suddenly install something and they can’t make phone calls on it, they are going to be really pissed off. If your computer stops working, usually you can live. But when you can’t make phone calls people get really unhappy really quickly. And so that’s generally been the carrier’s perspective about this stuff, is we don’t want the phones to be something that people can screw up too easily.

Leo Laporte I love this one. The Electronic Frontier Foundation filed a request to the copyright office to legalize or at least to say it’s legal to jail break a phone, and in particular the iPhone. Apple filed comments with the agency explaining that jail breaking could allow hackers to alter the phone’s base band processor software and “…a local or international hacker could potentially initiate commands such as a denial of service attack that could crash the tower’s software rendering the tower entirely inoperable to process calls or transmit data. Jail breaking is a terrorist act.”

Peter Rojas Blah, blah, blah, blah.

Leo Laporte Can you? I mean…

Peter Rojas That’s....

Leo Laporte By the way the very...

Peter Rojas That’s bombastic.

Leo Laporte …the very next week Charlie Miller demonstrates a DEFCON that every iPhone in the world can be easily hacked with a SMS message. I mean, they’re saying, oh you can’t change the iPhone software, it would make us insecure. Maybe you should change the iPhone software. Anyway Apple did respond with a 3.01 update that apparently fixed it.

Jason Calacanis The joke of all of this is like, the – one, we have denial of services attacks on the internet for what…

Leo Laporte


Jason Calacanis … going on 20 years.

Leo Laporte Constantly.

Peter Rojas Yeah.

Jason Calacanis And nobody is concerned about the Internet. Number two, did you see this story about DEFCON Air traffic control hacking.

Peter Rojas That was scary.

Jason Calacanis And like the…

Leo Laporte Oh tell me about that. This was at DEFCON this week?

Jason Calacanis Yeah, that DEF – basically they showed that you could shutdown information going into an air traffic control tower, jam radar, submit fake aircraft flight plans – I’m reading from [indiscernible].

Leo Laporte How?

Peter Rojas You, what you do is, you could actually get certified as a student pilot and then get access to some FCC flight plan website and then you could….

Leo Laporte Do it through the website?

Peter Rojas …and then you can flood that site with flight plans because there is no limit. First off, they don’t do much to authenticate who you are. And then you can – there is no limit to how many flight plans you can submit and. It was pretty interesting and...

Jason Calacanis

It’s an overflow right, I mean basically a [audio gap] overflow, I mean.

Leo Laporte Fred von Lohmann of EFF said Apple’s claims are preposterous. He says there are a million, as many as a million, jail broken iPhones. So far no one has destroyed mobile towers.

Jason Calacanis Yeah also in a related story, you can climb up a phone pole and cut the cables and also disable the network.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Jason Calacanis So we are going to have to get rid of phone clippers and any scissor capable of cutting any gauge wire above a certain strand.

Leo Laporte Well and, and...

Jason Calacanis I mean it’s the weakest defense I’ve ever heard. Apple should be brought up on anti-trust immediately for not letting other MP3 players into iTunes. It’s the simplest easiest thing they could do. It’s totally anti-competitive and terrible for the industry. And I am a total Ayn Rand, less government, let people get rich, you know, guy. But they should stop Apple now because it’s getting out of control and before Apple gets anymore marketshare in these things they should be made to open them up. Period.

Leo Laporte Apple said, by the way, that jail breaking could also pave the way for drug dealers to change the exclusive chip identification number which would enable calls to be made anonymously.

Jason Calacanis Well did they mention what Al Qaeda could do.

Peter Rojas Or you could just buy a…

Leo Laporte Or via burner.

Jason Calacanis Yeah.

Leo Laporte Which would be a lot easier, frankly.

Jason Calacanis Yeah.

Leo Laporte Maybe the drug dealer really wants an iPhone because he wants that Cannabis app.

Peter Rojas Just buy a pre-paid phone.

Jason Calacanis Did they mention what Osama bin Laden could do with this un – this jail broken iPhone.

Leo Laporte That’s next.

Jason Calacanis Because I think that he could do something pretty bad with it. Yeah.

Leo Laporte That’s next.

Peter Rojas He could figure out how to use it in a cave.

Jason Calacanis Yeah exactly. He could be recruiting people with it – a jail broken iPhone. He could create an Al Qaeda recruiting network application, sneak it into the iPhone store, and this could be huge for him, huge.

Leo Laporte So are you saying Mr. Ayn Rand, open free-market guy, that the Department of Justice should be shutting Apple down, should be suing?

Jason Calacanis They should close…

Peter Rojas Shut it down.

Jason Calacanis Shut, shut it down.

Peter Rojas Chain up the doors.

Leo Laporte Lock it up.

Peter Rojas Padlock the doors.

Leo Laporte Lock it up.

Leo Laporte Or you know what, sell it to Yahoo. That’ll shut it down even faster. Just….

Jason Calacanis Shut it down.

Leo Laporte Let Carol Bartges run it.

Jason Calacanis It’s an absolute hypocritical disaster for them to be going after Google or Microsoft. I mean Microsoft putting a browser in their operating system like it’s some big deal browsers while are free.

Leo Laporte That’s crazy, yeah.

Jason Calacanis And then going after Google because they have some market share that they earned in an industry where you can switch from providers as easily as typing five characters, and in Bing’s case, four.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jason Calacanis And you’re going to tell me Google’s got some monopoly when you can type in four fracking characters. And then Apple releases a new update to every device you own and you can’t use it unless you take this device and ram it up your butt and it’s unfracking believable.

Leo Laporte But wait a minute, but wait a minute, but wait a minute.

Jason Calacanis But they get away with it.

Leo Laporte I mean, part of this is that this stuff moves so fast. So Microsoft was a threat, and it took a long time for the EU to go through this process. They’ve been doing it for seven years. Maybe they’re not a threat anymore, you know? It’s like, they grew out of the threat. Apple wasn’t a threat because they were these little guys, they’ve grown into being a threat. This stuff – the pace of change in the tech business way outpaces the pace of government regulation.

Peter Rojas Yeah. And I would say, again, if you, I mean, if you really don’t like it, don’t use an iPhone.

Leo Laporte Just don’t buy.

Peter Rojas Or don’t use an iPod. That’s why I don’t buy that stuff.

Leo Laporte I do because I like it.

Peter Rojas Well there you go.

Leo Laporte I want the trains to run on time.

Peter Rojas But then you don’t – but then it’s not enough of an issue to bother you, I think.

Leo Laporte No it bothers me.

Peter Rojas But not enough to not use the stuff.

Jason Calacanis I think it’s getting to the tipping part, Peter, I think you’re a canary in the coma. You see this stuff five years ago you want to make a point about it.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jason Calacanis Mike Harrington sees it last week. Leo and I will be there next week.

Leo Laporte Next year.

Jason Calacanis Next year, whatever we’ll be – at some point we’ll…

Peter Rojas [ph] I want a 48:14) count down.

Jason Calacanis Yeah exactly.

Leo Laporte I have a G1. I really wanted to like the G1. I had a Pre I really wanted to like the Pre I was ready to buy it.

Peter Rojas


Leo Laporte But they just – the functionality.

Peter Rojas They’re just, no it’s true, they’re just not quite there yet. But they will be and the rest of the industry will catch up.

Leo Laporte And I’m not willing to sacrifice for the political point because, first of all, nobody knows what I use, or cares. I mean I could make – I could be like Mike and make the big announcement.

Peter Rojas Except on GDGT.

Leo Laporte Oh yeah.

Jason Calacanis Yeah that’s true.

Peter Rojas That’s the point of the site.

Leo Laporte Oh yeah.

Jason Calacanis Yeah you can vote with your dollar and put it on your profile.

Peter Rojas That’s how you vote [ph] on your list.

Leo Laporte Oh that’s interesting, you’ve created a new political tool.

Peter Rojas In fact actually, maybe everyone could start removing some device in protest from their lists, or something like that.

Jason Calacanis [indiscernible].

Leo Laporte What about the battle between Palm Pre and Apple over the iTune syncing.

Peter Rojas Well this is…

Leo Laporte Who’s going to win that one.

Peter Rojas This is pursuant to what Jason was just talking about. I mean what Palm wants to be able to do is they want people to be able to sync their music and – obviously not the copy-protected stuff – but their music and photos and stuff like that from iTunes over to the Pre. You can sync the Pre without iTunes.

Leo Laporte Right, but it’s convenient to be able to…

Peter Rojas But it’s very convenient and people manage their collections in iTunes.

Leo Laporte All right.

Peter Rojas It’s an easy way to transition away – transition to a Pre.

Leo Laporte Is it Apple’s right to do that – to disable the Pre.

Peter Rojas Well it’s getting – you are starting to get into an real gray area there because it is their software. And what Palm is doing is they’re doing some tricks – and remember a lot of these guys who built the Pre are Apple guys.

Leo Laporte Apple guys, yeah.

Peter Rojas And so they know how to do it. They basically trick iTunes into recognizing the Pre as an iPod.

Leo Laporte Well, and what’s interesting, initially they identified as a Pre and as soon as Apple made that change to iTunes they changed.

Peter Rojas Well and it has to do with different layers of identification in the USB protocols.

Leo Laporte Right. The hub is still a Pre hub but the device is no longer a Pre.

Peter Rojas Yeah so they’re doing this like cat and mouse thing. And there may be a point where they’re able to sort of outsmart the Pre, but on the other hand they might have to do something that – they might have to actually start to build some hardware encryption or authentication into the iPods themselves.

Jason Calacanis The equivalent of this, Leo, would be if because you’re using Windows you could only use a Seagate Drive, no Western Digital.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jason Calacanis That thumb drive, not approved. You can only buy a Windows thumb drive to put your documents on. I mean that’s what’s happening. And people just sit there like…

Leo Laporte Well, but it’s a different world. The cell phone world has always been a little bit more closed than the PC world.

Jason Calacanis But just MP3 players, I mean it’s a hard drive. I mean shouldn’t you be able to put your – sync your stuff to anything.

Leo Laporte No, I’m with you. I’m with you.

Peter Rojas What would be really nice is if Apple said, you know what we’re just really happy that you’re using iTunes even if you’re not going to use an iPod so we’ll let you use any USB mass storage device.

Leo Laporte I don’t think that’s point of iTunes.

Peter Rojas It’s not Apple, but it would be…

Leo Laporte I don’t think that’s the point of iTunes

Peter Rojas But you would think – you would want I guess, that the company would sort of think, we just want people – like that one step to converting a customer long-term is to get them using your software, whatever, but.

Leo Laporte Sure, I agree. That’s not our decision to make, I guess is the point right. That’s…

Peter Rojas Well I mean I don’t run Apple or any hardware company.

Leo Laporte Right, and should the government say what – say something about that?

Peter Rojas It’s tough because it’s starting – you’re starting to get into a grey area and next thing you know Apple will start invoking some DMCA nonsense that…

Leo Laporte It’s just a matter of time.

Peter Rojas They broke some encryption or hack something, or something like that.

Jason Calacanis Can I, can I…

Leo Laporte Just a matter of time, baby.

Jason Calacanis I can just prove what a hypocrite Steve Jobs is in like 2 seconds.

Leo Laporte Okay.

Jason Calacanis Remember he did his first blog post, or open letter, thoughts on music…

Leo Laporte Oh, yeah. Copy protection, yeah.

Jason Calacanis And he’s like telling the music industry how they need to get off of DRM…

Leo Laporte Sure.

Jason Calacanis …and they need to be more open.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Jason Calacanis And they need to embrace new technology, make it easy for consumers. He is a hypocrite of hypocrites. And he’s full of…

Leo Laporte He’s just a good businessman.

Jason Calacanis No but it’s hypocrisy to say, you sit there and preach to the music industry like you’re some god. He’s so high on his own supply, Steve Jobs, I’m sick of him. I mean I really am, to sit there and preach to the music industry, get rid of DRM and then on the other hand say, but you can only use my MP3 player, you can’t use anything else. It’s really – it’s just garbage you know, and I’m just sick of him. I don’t care how good the products are. But if anybody knows when the New MACBook Air is coming out I would appreciate information on that.

Leo Laporte And let’s not forget that Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak got their start selling blue boxes to hack the phone system. Talk about irony. All right, when we come back it’s going to be the Annals of the Crazy Lawsuit. But before we do that, Hans [ph] van Rock in our chat room needs a smoke and he wants me to go to a break right now. So Hans, you may smoke them if you’ve got them.

I’m going to mention our good friends at Citrix, the folks who do GoToMyPC. GoToMyPC is a fantastic product which I’ve used for many, many years that allows you to access your system from any other system anywhere you can get online. And I mean anywhere, at an internet café, at a hotel, at an airport, all you have to do is log on to with a user name and password that you set up. And there’s your PC, there’s your computer. PC or MAC. You can – well I mean the remote PC is a PC, but you can do this on a MAC. The – all that mail will be there, all the applications, all the software, the network resources, running just as if you’re there.

Completely securely too, 128-bit SSL, end-to-end. So it’s just like a VPN. It’s absolutely secure. Never been, by the way, an exploit taking advantage of GoToMyPC unlike any other remote access system. This stuff just works. And setup, so simple. In fact you could do it right now free for the next 30 days. Go to, you can try it so you can get an idea of how it works for yourself. You sign up for the account, take a second, and then press the download button. In two minutes you’ll have all the software you need, you’re done. Now travel, now hit the road, now go home from work, enjoy yourself, live life. And anytime you need that office computer you can get there easily and quickly just by going to

It couldn’t be simpler to set up and I want you to try it free. Go to for your free 30-day trial. I could tell you all the different ways we use it, and we do, we use it like crazy. The best thing to do is install it and find the ways you can use it. There’s always going to be ways that I haven’t thought of that you can find to make this an absolutely indispensable tool., you’re going to love it. And of course, we say – as always thanks Citrix for – they’ve been a really great supporter for all of our TWiT shows.

Jason Calacanis For a very long time, in fact.

Leo Laporte For a very long time.

Jason Calacanis And as you guys know, the job of the audience right now is to…

Leo Laporte Jason, you really don’t have to do this.

Jason Calacanis This is, no – this is my new advertising format. It’s my new ad format, which is called…

Leo Laporte Do you do this on twist?

Jason Calacanis I do it on twist, it’s incredible. It’s the reason the sponsors sponsor now. I want everybody out there who can hear my voice and it doesn’t matter if you’re listening to this in 2010 or 2012 or 2009, just to say on their Twitter account, it costs you nothing to do this, you don’t pay for twit, Peter Rojas is here, I’m here…

Leo Laporte It’s free.

Jason Calacanis …on a Sunday it’s free. What does it cost you to just say, you know what, thank you @ go to meeting, GoToMyPc, right?

Leo Laporte Yeah, I don’t know what they – I don’t know if they have an ad account. What is their ad account?

Jason Calacanis Just say – yeah, I mean even if they don’t, just say thank you GoToMyPC on your Twitter account. Just say it, it will take you 10 seconds. Thank you for sponsoring Twit, then whoever this marketing person is, you know that they’re getting pitched on social media like crazy. And they – always people are saying, give us a million dollars for this social media project, you know what they say now? Twit is our social media project. We get 1000 twits every – we get 1000 tweets every time we’re on TWiT. That means something to that marketing manager and that means you are contributing to the show.

Leo Laporte That’s brilliant.

Jason Calacanis I’m just saying.

Leo Laporte That’s brilliant.

Jason Calacanis I mean it’s not like the audience – we’re not asking the audience for money.

Leo Laporte Just Twit about it. Except I don’t want to – I don’t want them to fill up Twitter with spam either, though. I mean isn’t that kind of spammy? Oh, we lost him.

Jason Calacanis Oh, it’s one – just one little tweet. You know, it’s one thank you.

Leo Laporte It’s one tweet, one little tweet.

Jason Calacanis It’s one little tweet.

Leo Laporte Just 175,000 people doing one little tweet. Have you – what do you think of the new Twitter front page by the way, you think that that’s a – I mean it was actually, this is how far it’s gone with Twitter, this was actually a news story in mainstream media – Twitter has new homepage.

Peter Rojas Actually I don’t like it.

Leo Laporte How do you make that a news story, anyway? What don’t you like about it?

Peter Rojas I just think that…

Leo Laporte It’s pretty sparse.

Peter Rojas It’s sparse, but I don’t even mind the sparse, I like minimal design stuff in general. But I think that it’s starting to emphasize Twitter as more of a search engine and then…

Leo Laporte Well isn’t that what it is?

Peter Rojas It is kind of but I think that…

Leo Laporte Because on the front page it has popular topics. That’s all you really see. You see share and discover what’s happening right now anywhere in the world, and then you have a search box, and you have the popular topics, the trending topics, and then a sign up now. So you’re right, it is in fact like a search engine.

Peter Rojas I’m not saying you shouldn’t have search on the front page or search shouldn’t be a component to it, but I think that what makes Twitter really valuable for me and what I really like about it is the fact that it’s conversational, right…

Leo Laporte Right.

Peter Rojas That it’s about people – and they say join the conversation, but they’re really saying, like – they’re really trying to turn it – I think someone, I can’t remember whose the point is, I wish I could credit them, saying, Twitter is just turning us into sort of like cogs in their giant search engine.

Leo Laporte Well that’s what we – I mean Twitter is the next evil empire right? They all are!

Peter Rojas Yeah, but don’t make it obvious, make it seduce us a little bit.

Jason Calacanis I’ll tell you, this homepage is not intended for us because obviously we don’t see it when we log in, we go to our replies.

Leo Laporte It’s for new users.

Jason Calacanis No, not for new users either.

Leo Laporte Who is it for?

Jason Calacanis This is for investors.

Leo Laporte Oh yeah, that’s who it’s for, you’re absolutely right.

Jason Calacanis This is for whoever is going to take Twitter public, whoever is doing it, they want the perception to be they’re a search engine. Why?

Leo Laporte Because that’s the strategy.

Jason Calacanis Search engines are a billion dollars per percentage point.

Leo Laporte Did you know that actually TWiT is a search engine?

Jason Calacanis Yeah, TWiT is, absolutely, This Week in Tech is a search engine absolutely. If anybody would like to do a search. Leo has a list of searches, do the search [ph] and Peter and I will…

Leo Laporte [ph] Yeah I’m going to work it out.

Peter Rojas 0.000000001% in the market.

Leo Laporte I’ll take it.

Jason Calacanis Peter and I will give you search results live on [ph] ask what you’re looking for.

Peter Rojas Just anything.

Jason Calacanis Anything.

Peter Rojas What do you want to know?

Jason Calacanis Just no adult topics, please.

Leo Laporte Oh dear. So that’s interesting. So that’s really, I think you’re right, I think you’re exactly right, Jason.

Jason Calacanis I think that’s [inaudible].

Peter Rojas You’re sending [audio gap] signal

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Peter Rojas Well that’s what I said, I think Jason is right. And that’s why I think that if you’re someone that doesn’t really know what Twitter is and you hit this page for the front – this page for the first time…

Leo Laporte That doesn’t help. It doesn’t help.

Peter Rojas It doesn’t really help you understand what’s going on. And it doesn’t really give you a sense of the conversational nature of the site and how it’s really about connecting with other – your friends and stuff like that.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Peter Rojas I mean whatever, I mean at this point maybe there are very few people left who don’t know what Twitter is. It might have reached, there is sort of a sense that it may have reached it’s sort of saturation in the mainstream.

Leo Laporte Jason, are you still bullish on Twitter?

Jason Calacanis Very much so. I mean if you type in Jay-Z or Sarah Palin, what you’ll get in that search engine is going to be in some way as compelling as Google or StumbleUpon or Delicious Search, and that’s always been my premise with Mahalo and any human-powered search engine is – there’s something cool about, you know, what we’re recommending through each other.

Leo Laporte There’s a difference – I make a distinction between search and discoverability though. It’s more about discovery isn’t it, than search?

Jason Calacanis Well of course. And you know, that’s why it’s not a Google replacement, it’s you know there are multiple search pies.

Leo Laporte Maybe, and I think Jeff Jarvis made this point on TWiT yesterday, maybe discovery is the next search.

Jason Calacanis No.

Leo Laporte No. Why not?

Jason Calacanis No. It is a nice thing to waste time with and to – no it is. It’s a time-wasting kind of thing, it’s like. But if you want to have – and actually accomplish a goal, which is what most people use search for, I’m looking to buy a car, I’m doing research, I’m trying to find a website, I’m trying to find a person.

Leo Laporte Yeah you still need a search, yeah.

Jason Calacanis It’s not good for that. I mean if you type in Toyota Prius or you type in Ice Tea or a salmon recipe, it’s not going to be good.

Leo Laporte Well it might be better, but if you typed Abraham Lincoln it’s not going to be useful.

Jason Calacanis Yeah of course.

Peter Rojas Let me give you an example of what I use Twitter for. I mean I used it for last night, I’m staying not too far from here and there were fireworks in the direction of Petaluma.

Leo Laporte Right.

Peter Rojas And so I just…

Leo Laporte What’s going on?

Peter Rojas Obviously Google is not the best place to find out what’s going on.

Leo Laporte Real-time.

Peter Rojas Real-time, I just searched on Twitter for “fireworks Petaluma”.

Leo Laporte Did you find anything?

Peter Rojas Actually found out a lot of fireworks going on in L.A. and…

Leo Laporte It’s not perfect, yet.

Peter Rojas But I’ve used it before, actually; it’s funny I actually use it anytime I see fireworks and don’t know what’s going on, which has actually happened to me a few times…

Leo Laporte Well if you ever want to know when a celebrity is dead Twitter is the greatest.

Peter Rojas Yeah, bt it’s almost a little too much.

Leo Laporte It’s the fastest way to find out who is dead.

Jason Calacanis Yeah, 55,000 times “Michael Jackson is dead”. Really? Is he still dead? Oh wait I need 110,000 results for that. Okay great. You know like – it’s – it is 140 characters, you’re not going to get that much out of it. Although I will say I just typed in TWiT into search and you should pull it up on your screen because…

Leo Laporte I saw it.

Jason Calacanis GoToMyPC is going to be pretty happy on Monday.

Leo Laporte It’s kind of a trending topic. Thank you everybody.

Jason Calacanis How great would that be if....

Leo Laporte Except for the one guy who said “F GoToMyPC I hate ‘em”.

Jason Calacanis Yeah, well that’s the dark side of social media.

Leo Laporte There’s always one. So, here is a story in the annals of law that I quite enjoy. And I don’t know if there’s anything to say about this. The story comes from the Chicago Sun-Times. It’s about a young woman, a woman named Amanda Bonen who twittered in May of this year – she no longer has an account, and this tweet is long gone, but she Twittered “you should just come anyway, who said sleeping in a moldy apartment is bad for you? Horizon realty thinks it’s okay.” Now it turns out Horizon realty is the apartment management firm that owns the apartment she was staying in. They saw the tweet and they have now sued her for libel for $50,000 for a tweet.

Peter Rojas That’s it?

Leo Laporte That’s all? Furthermore, and this is the part I really like, they said – they it’s - I think the Chicago Sun Times interviewed the owner of the company, said we’re a sue-first, ask questions later company.

Peter Rojas I want a t-shirt that says that.

Leo Laporte I’m a sue-first ask questions later kind of guy.

Peter Rojas I mean it’s the Streisand effect right? I think Mike Masnick from Techdirt coined this.

Leo Laporte The Streisand effect what’s that mean?

Peter Rojas So the Streisand effect is something – Barbara Streisand a few year ago sued somebody, I think, for posting an aerial photo of her home because she didn’t want people to see where she lived, in the process getting – now everyone knows where she lives and what her house looks from the air. And so I think what this company has done is – I think this woman had maybe twenty people following her on Twitter and so –

Leo Laporte Well – so they – about 20 million people now know about this.

Peter Rojas So now everybody knows – now I will guarantee there are going to be a lot of people who will not rent from this place. And so I think: legally maybe are they in the right? Who knows I mean if they can demonstrate that there is a [ph] call…

Leo Laporte It might – it might legitimately be libel, I mean –

Peter Rojas Yeah, it might but I think you have to sort of –

Leo Laporte Can you –

Peter Rojas Have a sense perspective and proportion about this sort of thing and you might want to just let it slide because you are going to have this effect, the Streisand effect where people – a lot more people find out about the problem and the insult or the slander or libel in the first place…

Leo Laporte Horizon is trying to fix it. They put out a press release saying the sue-first comment was tongue-in-cheek, that no mold was ever found in the apartment, and she had sued it first, although the legal filing doesn’t mention a prior suit. I think it’s kind of, it’s out of control at this point.

Peter Rojas I would just let it go.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Jason Calacanis It would have been too difficult to just say to her, you know, we understand that you are concerned about the mold in your apartment because – she didn’t make up there’s mold in her apartment, what are the chances of that, right? – so, we understand you think you might have a mold problem, we’ll put you in other apartment, and by the way we are going to send up some pastry.

Leo Laporte And say it on Twitter.

Jason Calacanis Yeah, just say, oh hey, our bad. You know mold happens. I have mold in one of my bathrooms in my house, it happens. And we have to get the whole the god-damned thing ripped and – mold exists. In related…

Leo Laporte Wait a minute, let me write this down, “mold happens”. This is a word of wisdom.

Jason Calacanis Mold happens. I even have three possible names for the show. But Streisand effect from Wikipedia is defined as “the effect is related to John Gilmore’s observation that ‘the net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it’”.

Leo Laporte Oh, I like that, wait a minute the net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.

Peter Rojas Yeah.

Jason Calacanis Correct.

Peter Rojas It’s been around for a –

Leo Laporte That’s a great line.

Peter Rojas It’s a great line, yeah. That is very tweet-able.

Leo Laporte Well and what’s interesting is that some companies have done very well in this kind of instance, comcastcares is a very good example, by responding online on Twitter publicly in a very caring fashion and establish – I mean that’s the way to handle this.

Peter Rojas I think generally speaking you have to be a lot more transparent about this stuff. And to recognize that – I mean, at least in my experience – if somebody is unhappy about something it’s best to just deal with them as a human being.

Leo Laporte Is that iced tea? What is that you are drinking there? He has muted himself, unmute.

Jason Calacanis Oh, sorry about that, it was a little iced tea with a little mint in it.

Leo Laporte It looks like your mint was muddled my friend.

Jason Calacanis My wife muddled my mint so to speak.

Leo Laporte That’s nice of her to do that, especially considering she’s pregnant. Maybe you want to muddle her mint for a change.

Jason Calacanis I’ve got to get the bourbon out, I’m sorry.

Leo Laporte You are going to drink that. You got a little Bulleit. This is good. Have you ever had Bulleit Bourbon?

Jason Calacanis No, are they a sponsor?

Leo Laporte No.

Jason Calacanis If they are a sponsor I will tell you Bourbon Bulleit - Bulleit Bourbon is the finest bourbon I ever had.

Leo Laporte Twitter it. No, Molly Wood brought this the last time she was in and she is apparently a brown liquor drinker and this is called Frontier Whisky it’s, but it’s good with lemonade would you like some?

Jason Calacanis I am sorry, did you say brown liquor?

Peter Rojas I don’t drink that much.

Leo Laporte He says I don’t drink that –

Peter Rojas I’m not hardcore enough.

Jason Calacanis Brown liquor drinker?

Leo Laporte And you know Dane wrote because we used to do the wine on the show. I have a disclaimer that Dane wrote for me and anytime I pull out the booze, which I didn’t drink, kids, and I’m putting back in the drawer, it’s really more a prop than anything else.

Jason Calacanis It’s iced tea in there.

Leo Laporte It’s iced tea. No, you know, he says, while we here in the studio may choose to drink alcoholic beverages from time-to-time this in no way meant to be an endorsement of drinking of in general or an encouragement to anyone is our audience who might be underage. Each person on our panel is over 21. Are you over 21?

Peter Rojas Yes, very much so.

Leo Laporte He looks like he’s like 18. And is fully aware of the responsibilities that go along with drinking; if you are underage please do not drink. And – this is the best part: regardless of your age never ever drive drunk and if you have been drinking – I think Dane had a fugue state here or something – and if you have been drinking even if you don’t think you’ve had too much, hand the keys over to someone else, call a taxi, call a parent, take a bus, we want everyone in the TWiT community to live long and healthy lives.

Jason Calacanis Correct.

Leo Laporte I don’t know why that’s in my book!

Jason Calacanis That being said…

Jason Calacanis You don’t want to create an inducement.

Leo Laporte There has been no inducement.

Peter Rojas No inducement here.

Jason Calacanis If you are drinking, we encourage you to tweet to your Twitter account and update your Facebook status and by all means turn on USTREAM.

Leo Laporte Hey, is – yeah, really.

Jason Calacanis There’s nothing funnier than a drunk person…

Leo Laporte Drunk video stream, we love that.

Jason Calacanis Did you see Stephen Marlberry on USTREAM this week and in this week.

Leo Laporte No, what happened.

Jason Calacanis Oh my god, somebody in the Twit controldeck there, pull up Stephen Marlberry crying on USTREAM, or any of these Stephen Marlberry live. He basically live-casted for like two or three days 24 hours a day, eating Vaseline, crying to gospel music and talking in tongues essentially and people are like…

Leo Laporte This is Stephen Marlberry of the Boston Celtics?

Jason Calacanis Stephen Marlberry formerly of the New York Knicks, product of Coney Island, and now unsigned and probably going to remain that way based on his performances, but he was the – he was like one of the top five highest players – paid players in the league last year.

Leo Laporte This is not just some guy.

Jason Calacanis And he was going crazy, literally, and I’m looking at the guy…

Peter Rojas What happened?

Jason Calacanis Here it is you can see him.

Stephen Marlberry [ph] You trying to have these people hating me?

Leo Laporte This is – some people you know: put away the video camera.

Stephen Marlberry They are already got the noose around my neck. [ph] Can’t do that. Jealousy.

Leo Laporte He knows he’s on, right?

Jason Calacanis Yeah, he was talking to everyone in the camera, he’s talking to people in the chat room, he’s – he was basically going insane for three or four days.

Leo Laporte Oh, I don’t know if I like this.

Jason Calacanis And people are speculating this person might be medicated either with illegal or legal medication because – the behavior was non-stop for a couple of days. And so people are like: this guy is on a coke binge or something for three days, or he’s on some kind of prescription medicine because he’s not behaving normally.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Jason Calacanis And then I just, the guy is a little bit out there, I mean there has been a lot of instances of him being – people thinking he’s actually crazy.

Leo Laporte We are probably going to see more of this aren’t we? I mean anybody now can do this, it’s so easy to turn on a stream.

Jason Calacanis Well how soon…

Peter Rojas And a lot of people have very poor judgment.

Jason Calacanis How soon…

Peter Rojas [inaudible] [ph] …have poor judgement.

Leo Laporte Yeah. We should have a disclaimer for using USTREAM.

Jason Calacanis Yeah.

Peter Rojas You might need to.

Leo Laporte Those of us in this room…

Peter Rojas It’s an inducement.

Leo Laporte We use streaming media because we’re trained professionals and over 21, but you shouldn’t try this at home.

Jason Calacanis Actually what they should do is they should have a breathalyzer test on your PC, built in so you can’t tweet or load USTREAM unless you pass the breathalyzer test on your laptop.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I - you know…

Peter Rojas That’s what they have, that anti drunk-dialing –

Leo Laporte On Google mail.

Peter Rojas On – yeah, they have it for Gmail but I think Virgin Mobile had a phone that you could prevent you from drunk-texting people…

Jason Calacanis What does it do? It makes you do math or something?

Peter Rojas It stopped your SMS after [ph] 7 at night or something like that.

Leo Laporte The Gmail labs one makes you do math.

Peter Rojas The Gmail labs one makes you do math. There’s like a few different things out there to save you from yourself.

Jason Calacanis Oh, that’s pretty fun. How soon before the first live streaming sex tape? I mean we’ve had a sex…

Leo Laporte I’m shocked it hasn’t happen yet.

Jason Calacanis Somebody is going to do a live stream of –

Leo Laporte Oh, it’s happening – it’s just not happening where we hang out…

Jason Calacanis We are not…

Peter Rojas Of a celebrity?

Jason Calacanis A celebrity like – shouldn’t Paris Hilton or Lindsay Lohan.

Leo Laporte Accidentally turn on her laptop.

Jason Calacanis Accidentally turn on her laptop during sex.

Leo Laporte It’s just a matter of time.

Peter Rojas I assume they would do it for cash, like sell tickets or something.

Jason Calacanis Pay-per live stream, yeah.

Peter Rojas Pay-per-view.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I hate to focus on all that stuff, because of course all that stuff is going to happen on the internet. Let’s hope it’s better – you know there’s other better, more interesting stuff happening, I would hope.

None of the stories this week but. How about this one, our friend Tenenbaum - Joel Tenenbaum who admitted that he stole music, has been found guilty, the judge even said the question wasn’t an issue of whether he was guilty, the only thing the Jury had to do is figure out how much he owed. They awarded $22,500 per song to the RIAA. $675,000 – I don’t think the graduate student’s going to have that kind of money.

Peter Rojas We’ve seen these cases a few times now right and the RIAA is obviously very aggressive in going after people for sharing stuff. I think he actually was not just downloading I think he was actually also sharing back up.

Leo Laporte Yeah, and he admitted it, now he had a Harvard Law professor…

Peter Rojas Well, he lied about it.

Leo Laporte At first –

Peter Rojas And then admitted it, which I think is…

Leo Laporte Yeah. That’s kind of all a mess. His lawyer took some interesting strategic turns as well. The whole thing was kind of a mess.

Peter Rojas Maybe he can sue his lawyer for malpractice and win – for $675,000.

Leo Laporte The whole thing is a mess.

Jason Calacanis Yeah, and mold.

Leo Laporte And mold!

Jason Calacanis Yeah it’s a mess and I think well, the music industry is really, really screwed up.

Leo Laporte I thought they stopped suing people. Are they still suing people? What’s the deal?

Jason Calacanis They’re still going after a few people here and there. I think they’ve mainly stopped. But I think you also…

Leo Laporte This are just left over?

Jason Calacanis I don’t know when this case started, I assume it’s been going on for a while, though.

Leo Laporte I’m sure it has, yeah.

Jason Calacanis Yeah, I’m dealing with this on a weekly basis right now with Ascap who has been…

Leo Laporte Oh, that must be fun.

Jason Calacanis Oh my god they are – I don’t even know if I should talk about it or not.

Leo Laporte Yeah, no, no, we –

Jason Calacanis Twittering about it, but there’s a whole Ascap thing going on people can search on the Internet for it, but they’re basically sending letters to a lot of site owners including myself –

Leo Laporte Where do you – where do you – but do you have music on your site?

Jason Calacanis We have YouTube videos in our search engine, and YouTube apparently – there are – YouTube is paying for an Ascap license from what I understand. However if you syndicate a YouTube video –

Leo Laporte You’re responsible.

Jason Calacanis Well, they’re claiming you are. I don’t believe you are.

Peter Rojas I don’t believe you are.

Jason Calacanis Because when you –

Leo Laporte It’s just a – embed.

Jason Calacanis Yeah, exactly and it’s syndicating. And it’s basically a frame. So what they are saying is I think – and I can’t speak for them – but I think their premise is because the URL is your site as opposed to the YouTube site, you’re responsible. Well what it turns out is, the Ascap – I think, and again this is all speculation right now but I have some information – that YouTube didn’t want to pay for these syndicated videos, therefore Ascap is going after small site owners to put pressure on Google and YouTube which basically puts us in the middle.

To which I told some people who I’m having discussions with about this, well we’ll just load YouTube in a pop-up window from now on and you will never be able to talk to us about the issue again. And also by the way you’re - in order to get a license you’re asking us how much money we are making from these videos, or from these plays, and how much traffic they are getting. We can give you that because we don’t host it, and we don’t make money off of it. The people who do are YouTube.

So if – in order to fill out this license, they want me to fill out a license and other site owners, to tell them how much traffic we have for music videos and how much money we’re making and when the answer to it is we don’t know and zero, we’re not making any money, You-tube is if they are, you know, have ads on the videos and we don’t know how much traffic it’s getting. That’s YouTube’s business and we don’t have access to it, so how can we even fill out the form you want us to fill out to determine the license? And if we can’t fill out the form and this other person can does that not give you an indication of who is responsible?

Leo Laporte Now here is an interesting thing – that’s one way to handle it is to go and sue and send letters. Another way – doesn’t YouTube have some sort of mechanism, I don’t know what they call it, where if a video includes music that the rights holder can then monetize it? Are you familiar with this?

Peter Rojas Yeah, they can claim it. Yeah, they did this with the – and it’s kind of a little bit sad to see Chris Brown –

Leo Laporte Chris Brown is now in the top ten on iTunes with his song Forever because of this JK wedding video.

Peter Rojas So, yeah, it was in this wedding video which I’m sure people have seen, it was on like Good Morning America and all this stuff, The Today Show – it’s been all over. And it’s a little – and instead of, I guess they gave – YouTube gave him the option of removing the song from the video or removing the video entirely or taking a cut of the sales of the music, of the downloads it would drive.

Leo Laporte So, in fact with – when you see this JK wedding video now, on – by the way I have linked to it on my tumblelog and so have many other people – you get a pop up ad for Chris Brown’s Forever. And that has been so successful that even though this is a year old song, he’s back in the top ten on iTunes.

Peter Rojas Yeah, so you’re basically helping a guy who beat up his girlfriend.

Leo Laporte Well.

Peter Rojas Thanks Leo.

Leo Laporte That wasn’t my intent. I liked the wedding video, the dancing – it was good. Did you see the parody of it?

Peter Rojas Yes I did.

Leo Laporte The divorce video?

Jason Calacanis That was brilliant.

Leo Laporte I don’t know who did that, but somebody spent a lot of money making that work.

Jason Calacanis I have to say we process these memes so quickly now. It’s like…

Leo Laporte Oh yeah, this is only a week old this video.

Jason Calacanis Yeah, it – like it breaks on a Monday.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Jason Calacanis It’s on local – it’s on local news that night because they have nothing to talk about on local news but whatever the top five videos are on YouTube. I don’t know if anybody else has noticed that trend?

Leo Laporte Oh, Yeah. That’s it.

Jason Calacanis But they are like “Oh, and on the interwebs there is a dance going on to a Chris Brown”…

Leo Laporte You can’t see this yourself but we will be glad to play it for you on our television. Because we got nothing compelling.

Jason Calacanis We are going to place something for seven seconds in half an hour and tease it seven times even though it was emailed to you 15 times today.

Leo Laporte You’ve already seen this!

Jason Calacanis When we get back!

Leo Laporte Well there must be – I mean I guess the people still watching local news probably don’t have the Internet.

Jason Calacanis That’s right, it’s your grandma or whatever.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Jason Calacanis But then like the next day or two days later it becomes like the top story on Mashable talking about blah, blah, blah, blah and then by Friday we have the parody and it’s over.

Leo Laporte And if you should now post that video on your tumblelog you will just be reamed for being completely out of date and out of touch. That was so five days ago.

Peter Rojas Yeah, no, the half life is insane now. But if you go away for a week you’re going to miss out on a whole week’s worth of viral culture…

Leo Laporte I was in China – I heard Sarah Palin resigned, I didn’t know.

Jason Calacanis You got to get back on the loop.

Leo Laporte You are just really out of the loop.

Peter Rojas I don’t know if they care that much in China.

Leo Laporte No they didn’t, they blocked it. I [ph] got a guy on Google.

Jason Calacanis Yeah they blocked it –

Peter Rojas Actually consider yourself lucky that they block your Palin news in China.

Leo Laporte I missed that – missed that whole story, it’s true though you feel like I have missed five days, I’ve missed a lifetime.

Peter Rojas Yeah absolutely, it’s like what happened when I was gone?

Leo Laporte A tow-truck driver, New York state tow-truck driver who was texting on one cell phone and talking on another.

Peter Rojas That’s it?

Leo Laporte Hit a car –

Jason Calacanis [ph] Was he eating a slice of pizza?

Leo Laporte Drove into a swimming pool, and now is a poster child for why people are opposed – are asking for a ban on texting while driving. How do you feel about that? We saw a seven year old report from the National Transportation – Highway Transportation and Safety Administration saying, there is no safe way to use a cell phone even hands-free. This was suppressed seven years ago by some say by a mobile industry that said “Well, we can’t have that.” I think it was just by members of Congress who said, if you’re asking us to pass a bill against cell phones you’re going to lose that one.

Peter Rojas Yeah, I mean did you play that game that the New York Times created?

Leo Laporte No.

Peter Rojas It was a game basically to simulate trying to text while driving, and then they would show you how your response time –

Leo Laporte It’s terrible – well of course, you’re typing!

Peter Rojas So, it’s definitely – I mean it’s definitely an issue and I think that –

Leo Laporte So should we ban cell phones? Should we ban texting? What about putting on your makeup in cars? What about eating fried chicken in cars? I mean…

Peter Rojas Ban it. Ban them all. No radios, no talk radio.

Leo Laporte I know you don’t allow fried chicken in your Tesla, Jason but –

Jason Calacanis No, no fried chicken. In-N-Out burgers? Yes.

Leo Laporte No, come on. Have you pulled up to an In-N-Out in a Tesla?

Jason Calacanis No comment.

Leo Laporte I love that.

Jason Calacanis No, I almost got – I was driving with my wife to a friend’s house yesterday, and I’m going through the hills in Belair, and this woman is in my lane in the hills, and she’s coming right for us. I slam on the breaks.

Leo Laporte Oh Jeez.

Jason Calacanis I go up onto the sidewalk – halfway up with the truck. And she was texting! And I’m like – honking the horn and I felt like I was going to chase this woman down and absolutely murder her because I got my pregnant – five month pregnant wife here.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Jason Calacanis Almost in a head-on collision, so that she can text her friend OMG, get me a latte or whatever the F she was doing. I mean what is wrong with people. You drive in LA and you look at people, they are doing their make-up, they’re texting, anything but driving. Enjoy the drive people, it’s okay. Put on an audiobook from somebody like Audible and listen to something.

Leo Laporte You know that’s completely legal and highly appropriate, actually.

Jason Calacanis That’s what I would do; I would just listen to an audible Audible book. Audio book.

Leo Laporte Let me get the notebook out and just see would it says in here about Audible. Hey before…

Jason Calacanis No, I’m just saying, if you had a choice texting and dying or driving and getting to your destinations while listening to –

Leo Laporte Enjoy the scenery!

Jason Calacanis A business book –

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Jason Calacanis Maybe some fiction –

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Jason Calacanis Maybe a bestseller that you see when you go to the airport or you see it in the New York Times, and you say, you know what, I wish I read more, but I don’t. Why don’t I just put a couple of things on my iPod, my iPhone or even a DRM free player and just listen, get educated, get amused while not killing yourself and murdering other people and pregnant wives. Who wouldn’t -- why wouldn’t you do that?

Leo Laporte Why wouldn’t you do that. Virginia Techs Transportation Institute did a study. Texting while driving increased truck drivers risk of crash 23 times.

Jason Calacanis Only 23 times.

Leo Laporte Only 23 times. Chuck Schummer, he has introduced legislation that will force States to band texting while operating or moving vehicle or face cuts in federal highway funds. So -- and you know interestingly I think it’s – it’s at this point that even the cell carriers aren’t going to fight this one. It’s just going to happen right?

Peter Rojas And I don’t think it ultimately is really going to hurt their business.

Leo Laporte Oh wait a minute John Taylor Sprint Nextels Public Affairs Manager says; the legislation is well intention but it likely won’t get to the root issue of changing driver behavior.

Peter Rojas They’re starting to sound like the tobacco companies...

Leo Laporte They really are. If texting doesn’t kill people...

Peter Rojas Phones don’t kill people…

Jason Calacanis Yeah and actually if you’re using a jail broken iPhone, your chances of getting in an accident are 27% so – times.

Leo Laporte That’s right.

Jason Calacanis So it’s more dangerous if you jailbreak your phone. And what was wrong with these PR people. Can somebody just drown them.

Leo Laporte Just – yeah – most of the other carriers said; yeah you’re right it’s a problem.

Jason Calacanis What was the guys name again, the ..

Leo Laporte John Taylor, Sprint Nextels Public Affairs Manager.

Jason Calacanis Okay John Taylor. Can somebody please let this idiot know that we’re talking about him? Send him this clip. Put it on YouTube, John Taylor, you freaking moron, you are risking people’s lives. You’re going to – your stupid PR speak is going to result in people dying, you idiot. Look deeply at the life you have chosen.

Leo Laporte No, no, no in his defense – his defense

Jason Calacanis Look he lives a life chosen, you are supporting murder.

Peter Rojas Everyone crash your car into his apartment that’s…

Leo Laporte No, no, no stop. No I know you’re going to get me sued.

Jason Calacanis Find this person, somebody find this person and get them on TWiT next week. I want them on TWiT next week.

Leo Laporte Opinions of TWiT panelists are those – are theirs entirely, are not in anyway endorsed.

Jason Calacanis I am sorry I’m on fire today [indiscernible]

Peter Rojas I am not encouraging anyone [ph] to bring it

Leo Laporte We don’t have anything to do with them. Who let these guys in the studio? No.

Jason Calacanis I am encouraging somebody who knows him to tell him what a donkey he is.

Leo Laporte He did say – he did say that my experience with law enforcement educator suggests that the best way to tackle this problem is through better driver education.

Peter Rojas What you need is like a dog, the guy dresses up like a dog that goes to the high school.

Leo Laporte McGruff, the text dog. Take a bite at it, texting.

Peter Rojas Hi, I’m Tony the truck driver. I almost killed seven people and wound up in a swimming pool. Don’t be like Tony the truck driver.

Leo Laporte But I am with them in one respect. There are so many other things people are doing. People bend over to tune the radio then look up and they run into four pedestrians. It means there’s all sorts of things you could do that are stupid in a car.

Jason Calacanis Here’s what I want people to do. I would like everybody on the TWiT audience to take out their flip cameras when they are not driving, when they are on the passenger seats and video tape people doing stupid stuffs.

Leo Laporte That’s a good idea. Let’s make a website.

Jason Calacanis Register and put these videos there.

Leo Laporte That’s a great idea.

Jason Calacanis And cops should – they should have specific cops who go out and just pull up along side people in like minivan with a video camera set up on – in the back of the minivan, video tape them doing what they are doing, pull them over and then show them the video tape. And then give them a $500 ticket for doing it. Making it a $500 ticket for texting while driving, get the video, it’s locked, we’ll balance the budget with all these idiots texting while driving.

Leo Laporte I think that’s a great idea.

Jason Calacanis It has to stop.

Leo Laporte I’ll confess…….

Jason Calacanis People are dying.

Leo Laporte When I first got a BlackBerry, I perfected the hands through the steering wheel, thumbs on the BlackBerry typing technique. But I don’t do that anymore.

Peter Rojas I don’t even own a car.

Leo Laporte Good for you, that’s the safest thing to do.

Jason Calacanis

I you are on the subway by all means, text. If you are a passenger, text.

Leo Laporte Amazon’s being sued, you know that deletion we talked about it couple of weeks ago, the Orwell, the 1984. A story, a high school student is suing Amazon saying, you ate my homework, basically.

Jason Calacanis So what was it, that he’d actually taken on his notes?

Leo Laporte He had electronic notes and he says when you deleted 1984 at Amazon – but now – and so it’s a class-action. Justin D. Gowronski, 17 a student at Eisenhower High School in Shelby Township, Michigan, has filed a class-action against Amazon.

Jason Calacanis It’s going to be a pretty small class.

Leo Laporte Well, he’s got one other guy. Antoine Bruguier in Milpitas, California. He’s an adult.

Jason Calacanis Anybody who didn’t do their homework last week, get in on this. I am telling you. This is your perfect excuse.

Leo Laporte Yeah, Amazon ate my homework. His notes were rendered useless. They didn’t take the notes. Well, this is the problem. The notes are still there but they no longer reference relevant parts of the book of course.

Jason Calacanis So he still got the notes.

Leo Laporte Yeah, yeah.

Jason Calacanis Do you homework, kid. Do your goddamn homework.

Leo Laporte Yeah, do your homework instead of suing. All right, let’s do an Audible ad real quickly because I just …..

Jason Calacanis What?

Leo Laporte I don’t know who else are going to libel here and I just want to make sure before ….

Jason Calacanis Another Audible ad?

Leo Laporte …..before the network goes off the air, we are going to do it. We didn’t do an Audible ad yet.

Jason Calacanis Oh, no that’s all right. Audible was just referenced a couple times.

Leo Laporte Just referenced, well they kind of get their time but I love Audible. You love Audible, we all love audible. it’s the Platinum account. You get two books free. Yes.

Jason Calacanis What is the URL?

Leo Laporte Audible, the number two.

Jason Calacanis t-w-i-t, the number two?

Leo Laporte And the reason to do that is because it’s two books free, it’s a Platinum account. You must have a Platinum, Jason, because you ….

Jason Calacanis I do but I would like to maybe start another one to get two books free but, you know I already have.

Leo Laporte You could. I know people who have multiple Platinum accounts not to get the free books but just because they go through that many books a month.

Jason Calacanis And look at the choices they have there for you, Blade Runner, Snow Crash, these are books maybe you haven’t read.

Leo Laporte Look at this one. This is for you. In-N-Out Burger: A Behind-the-Counter Look at the Fast-Food Chain That Breaks All the Rules.

Jason Calacanis What?

Leo Laporte And the Teslas that love them.

Jason Calacanis Genius, I just actually at the poker table the other night – I was listening because I play poker….

Leo Laporte Do you listen to poker books while you are playing?

Jason Calacanis Well not poker books, I have listened to all the poker books. But I would listen to – that’s too hard to do because if you listen to a poker book while you are in a hand, they are describing the hand. So it was like try to listen to a chess – somebody describing a chessboard while you…….

Leo Laporte That’s confusing. Yeah, yeah.

Jason Calacanis Way too much. But I was listening to The Road and I just finished The Road. We had talked about on our previous episode…

Leo Laporte Cormac McCarthy, what a great book.

Jason Calacanis Oh my god!

Leo Laporte And you are going to have a baby. This is good. Of course yours is a daughter, well I think a daughter, it’s the same thing.

Jason Calacanis Same difference. This book is …..

Leo Laporte For anybody who is a parent.

Jason Calacanis Mind-blowingly good.

Leo Laporte Father-son story, yep.

Jason Calacanis Mind blowingly. Science Fiction, it’s eco somehow, it’s brilliant and it’s on Audible.

Leo Laporte How about this? Unmasked: The Final Years of Michael Jackson by Ian Halperin.

Peter Rojas The biographer, right?

Leo Laporte Now see I think that you have 23 times more chance of running into the guy ahead of you for listening to Michael Jackson unauthorized biography.

Peter Rojas Just because you are so outraged.

Leo Laporte Yeah, it’s a joke because you can’t put it down, its like what, he did what, it happened what. There are – in fact it’s really true that when you are driving, it’s – I know it made me a better driver because it calmed me down. There is nothing worse than being stuck in traffic. I had the worst, most miserable commute for years and audible saved my life because I could listen to books. I was calm, I was happy, I didn’t mind being in traffic. So I wasn’t going you get off my way. I wasn’t on tilt…

Jason Calacanis It seems your life and texting is taking other people’s life.

Leo Laporte So there you go. Don’t text, subscribe to audible. Or if you can sit at home right now you can text audible., two books free with the Platinum account. 60,000 to choose from, it really is a wonderful library. Do you ever listen to audio books?

Peter Rojas Occasionally but mainly just podcasts.

Leo Laporte Really? You are podcast guy. One of the reasons I think – it’s a natural relationship between TWiT and audible because yeah if you listen to podcasts, you’re kind of already conditioned to audio information and that’s what I really like. I can’t listen to podcast all the time. So when I have had enough podcasts, although I love GBGT and Twist but sometimes I just want to listen to a book.

Jason Calacanis Sometimes you want to listen to a professional.

Leo Laporte Well these readers are so good. How about this one? A little red book of selling 12.5 principles of sales greatness.

Peter Rojas What’s the half principle?

Leo Laporte I don’t know. You know you got to listen to the book to find out.

Jason Calacanis It doesn’t deserve a full point.

Leo Laporte Yeah so good it’s only half a point. That’s it you know what that -- that’s a good technique he just used there. You can see how he did that? 12.5. I got to read that. I got to know what he is talking about. This guy knows what he is talking about. The little red book of selling. Anyway there’s a whole bunch of stuff – fiction, non-fiction, science fiction, history, even comedy performance, old radio shows. Give it a try, just visit the website,

Jason Calacanis So many good ones. I mean we have talked about so many on the show. Shadow Divers. We talked The Road, we talked about Do Android’s dream about electric sheep? I mean just book after book after book, Good to Great, one of the great business books. I mean you’re going to have a hard time picking just two.

Leo Laporte Yeah, no I am with you. I am with you but get the first two anyway. We thank them so much for their support of this WEEK in TECH, the whole shebang, the whole network.

Peter Rojas It’s amazing. You could also thank them on Twitter right now.

Jason Calacanis If you didn’t get the platinum….

Leo Laporte Just out of curiosity did GoToMyPC become a trending topic on Twitter.

Jason Calacanis It’s got to be close at this point. I don’t know what you need to get….

Peter Rojas

…on the front page.

Leo Laporte People are gaming…It’s on the new front page?

Jason Calacanis I don’t know.

Leo Laporte People are really gaming the trending topics thing, that’s going to be a problem eventually. They have got to do something that way.

Jason Calacanis Well they have the documents released. I think, oh no, I think TechCrunch guessed their way into that administrative panel and you can go to the trending topics and you can just check off like…

Leo Laporte Take this off.

Jason Calacanis Take this off. So they have a little interface. Anytime, anybody buys their way on to it where like at 1.8 I think some people – because there’s a bunch of like hip hop people on Twitter now doing like this trending topic stuff and they do some things like you are a hoe if or you are a…

Leo Laporte Yeah, yeah, yeah, I’ve noticed that and it has only taken over Twitter.

Jason Calacanis I think it might be a hip hop radio station that’s doing something. They are like you know you are broke if you’re boom and everybody makes a joke. It’s fun but some of them are vulgar. So they have been turning those off as they pop up.

Peter Rojas So the thing I have noticed. I actually just noticed this last night or yesterday was that. Some spammer is taking other peoples tweets that are responses to me like people…

Leo Laporte Yes it’s a porn spammer.

Peter Rojas Yeah you have seen this?

Leo Laporte Yeah it’s happened to me.

Peter Rojas It’s crazy.

Leo Laporte So all of a sudden I saw something I wrote showing up again and again. The effect -- I was talking about the AT&T over bill on my data plan and somebody and the response was something like AT&T really ought to be dinged for this. It showed up on about 50 sites. I looked at the people’s pages. They are all girls and half dressed and you go back to their front – their profile.

Peter Rojas It’s an adult…

Leo Laporte It’s an adult site.

Peter Rojas Adult site yeah.

Jason Calacanis I am sorry how do I find this site?

Peter Rojas Great site yeah.

Jason Calacanis Went a little fast there…

Peter Rojas I’m not complaining or anything.

Leo Laporte I have noticed this. This is – I can never figure out how a spammer is going to make it work on Twitter. I just don’t get it.

Peter Rojas It’s too easy to report them.

Leo Laporte Well and how many people are going to see the tweet and go to the profile?

Peter Rojas We did.

Leo Laporte Well I only because it was my tweet.

Peter Rojas But it wasn’t even my tweet. It was somebody like – what I saw is, I saw the same text…

Leo Laporte Over and over yeah you are right. I guess it worked.

Peter Rojas That’s weird that I am getting the same comment from multiple people and…

Leo Laporte I guess you are right. I worked.

Peter Rojas And it was like a scantily clad woman which seemed very suspicious to me.

Leo Laporte Yeah, yeah and then you clicked to her profile?

Peter Rojas Then I clicked her profile.

Leo Laporte In the spirit of research of course.

Peter Rojas Absolutely.

Leo Laporte Yeah, yeah.

Jason Calacanis There are a lot of porn stars on Twitter and I know this because I was following one of my employees and this is always a weird thing like I don’t know if I should follow the employees, ex-employees, if I should un-follow them when they leave the company.

Leo Laporte This is etiquette and we just don’t have any rules for.

Jason Calacanis And like I un-followed a couple of guys who left the company because I was like I don’t if I should still be following, maybe they find it creepy that I am following them or people who used to work for me if they should follow, anyway so one of the guys who works for me is watching it and he’s replying and he’s talking to all these people with XXX in their name. I am like what is this about and I realize one of my employees is replying to porn stars.

Leo Laporte I followed the porn stars briefly just because out of curiosity like what kind of, what am I going to see here, what is it going to be like? These are the most boring people in the world.

Jason Calacanis Yeah, they are like…yeah. Going to Starbucks.

Peter Rojas I mean most celebrities.

Leo Laporte All the celebrities. I mean if you follow Demi Moore, I mean I think look, I am following Demi Moore, this is exciting. No, it’s not. The most boring person in the world.

Jason Calacanis Who’s got to follow this guy, Jesse Dylan? He did the, JE…I think no, no that’s not his. What’s his handle? I don’t know his handle, It’s basically Bob Dylan’s son but he is the guy who did the video, Jesse B. Dylan but he, like I think he has nothing to do all day but read like really interesting stories, so it’s constantly…

Leo Laporte That’s who you are looking for is that…

Jason Calacanis Cool stories and it’s like this guy is like an artist, he does movies and whatever music videos and he’s releasing like all these interesting like he must read like a thousand magazines like…

Leo Laporte That’s who you are looking for. You are looking for a filter feeder. Somebody who can just filter…

Peter Rojas Someone who is passing on interesting stuff.

Leo Laporte Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jason Calacanis Jeff Jarvis actually is, Jeff Jarvis is a great guy to follow.

Leo Laporte Jay Rosen also.

Jason Calacanis Jay Rosen I follow.

Leo Laporte You know what I did with Jay Rosen. He tweeted something about his handpicked 10 cult lists of the 300 best journalist accounts. So I just followed all of them.

Peter Rojas Yeah.

Jason Calacanis Oh really.

Leo Laporte Well, they was no automatic way to do it. Maybe there is with social two or something.

Peter Rojas Actually, there will be. I know someone who’s working on that.

Leo Laporte That would be great because…

Jason Calacanis

[ph] Follow collections of people.

Leo Laporte [ph] My.

Peter Rojas If you have an auto follow they – you’d be able to create a group of…well I don’t want to say about it because he hasn’t announced it yet.

Leo Laporte Okay, don’t say it but I know what are you saying, I get what are you saying and my philosophy on following is don’t hesitate to follow somebody but just drop them the minute they are uninteresting, right. So I am, right now I am like 1,200 people only because I added that whole list, Jay Rosen’s whole list but they have been interesting and that now what it does is it tilts my Twitter feed do a conversation about journalism because they are all, all of these journalists.

Peter Rojas Excuse it.

Leo Laporte Excuse it.

Peter Rojas Yeah.

Leo Laporte But then if I followed all of your friends, Peter I would get a lot of stuff about gadgets perhaps.

Peter Rojas A lot of tech, yeah.

Leo Laporte Tech. A billion downloads for Firefox, congratulations to Firefox. That’s kind of amazing, one billion downloads.

Peter Rojas I know I have downloaded it probably about 300 times.

Leo Laporte That’s the problem. Doesn’t say how many people, just how many downloads.

Peter Rojas But that’s still an impressive number and I think, I mean just to use GDGT as an example. I think over 50% of our users are on Firefox.

Leo Laporte Yeah, mine is, it’s like 70%, yeah because it’s all techy.

Jason Calacanis That’s right.

Peter Rojas 9% Chrome.

Leo Laporte Really, that high.

Peter Rojas Which I thought was pretty interesting.

Leo Laporte I mean look at my Google Analytics because I am curious. That’s you know…

Peter Rojas That’s what -- everybody is playing up their Google Analytics…

Leo Laporte Well let me just check my Analytics here.

Jason Calacanis

[Indiscernible] [ph] 54.2%.

Leo Laporte It fortunately…

Jason Calacanis


Leo Laporte [Indiscernible]. Actually yeah.

Jason Calacanis What is it under? What is it under, visitors?

Peter Rojas Visitors.

Jason Calacanis Visitors, network properties, browser compatibilities, browsers…

Leo Laporte Firefox… Let’s see this is a percentage raw numbers, I want…

Jason Calacanis


Leo Laporte Firefox, then Safari, then IE, then Chrome, then Opera.

Jason Calacanis You see, [indiscernible] a general interest site, I have got the opposite. We got 8 million uniques last month and we had 57% Internet Explorer, 29.5% Firefox, 7% Safari, and only 3% Chrome and 1% Opera, interesting.

Peter Rojas We had, I think, 0.004% PlayStation 3 browser.

Jason Calacanis I have PlayStation Portable. They had 5,000 visits in the last month from PlayStation Portable. That’s fascinating.

Leo Laporte [Indiscernible] full up mine.

Jason Calacanis How many sea monkeys come to you? A BlackBerry 8900, 7072, I think those are all me. Well, I didn’t know we can tell you the exact model of Blackberry.

Leo Laporte It tells you the [indiscernible].

Peter Rojas It depends on what the browser, what kind of browser strength?

Jason Calacanis Oh my god, have you seen Chartbeat yet?

Leo Laporte What’s that?

Jason Calacanis Oh yeah, okay. I asked actually Peter to put it on GDGT. I am actually, full disclosure, I am an investor in GDGT and…

Peter Rojas [ph] Betawork says Chartbeat is also an investor.

Jason Calacanis It’s also an investor. Chartbeat is Google Analytics in the last 60 seconds on your site,

Leo Laporte The last 60 seconds.

Jason Calacanis Right, it shows you who’s live on your site in real time. It’s real time...

Leo Laporte Now I have to put some code in my site, some javascript or…

Jason Calacanis You have to put one at the top of the page and one at the bottom. So now we have Google Analytics, Chartbeat and Quantcast on our site which is a little bit of a pain in the ass for speed issues, but it basically gives you a heads up display and says, [ph] on Mahalo there is like 1,500 to 2,500 people on at any given point in time and it shows me there are seven people on [ph] How to Buy Gold there’s 8 people on this and you could put it on TWiT and you know exactly where people are, then you twitter something, like if I twitter a link, we see a 100, 200 people go to that page in real time. So you see a VC right there, that’s I guess Fred Wilson’s site. They have a demo account on and you can actually watch in real time, I’m like, I e-mailed John Borthwick from betaworks , I was like, can I invest in this company please immediately, this thing is insane.

Leo Laporte Does it have any real value though? I mean you’re not going to show advertising, this is just fun.

Jason Calacanis No, no, no because you actually see what people are doing at different moments in time on your site. So, like right now where are you getting traffic during TWiT or during on Saturday’s when you are not broadcasting...

Leo Laporte No, I would like to know, you are right, you are right.

Jason Calacanis And you can actually see it and so then during the show you can actually, if you were watching this during the show or we were watching it, we can actually say everybody go to this page and you could have all the TWiT links there or have the FriendFeed ones you know, okay look there is two to one on FriendFeed over this where everybody is on this story, whatever it is, and you just say, vow why is all of a sudden Episode 57 of TWiT peaking, oh its because somebody tweeted it, and it shows the referrers, where they are coming from. Oh, I am getting this many people from Bing.

Leo Laporte It’s pretty cool, it’s pretty cool.

Peter Rojas The betaworks guys are trying to build, they also invested in TweetDeck and Twitterfeed. So they are really all about this real time data.

Leo Laporte Real time is it man, everywhere in every respect. This is just humans’ want real time.

Peter Rojas [ph] And they invested in Surmise which became Twitter search.

Leo Laporte So they made some money on that.

Jason Calacanis Well, they will when [ph] Surmise picks up. [indiscernible]

Leo Laporte Is Quantcast the one you recommend, that’s what I have been using. You like Quantcast?

Jason Calacanis You have to use Quantcast now because advertisers are using it and so if you...

Leo Laporte This is again another analytics piece of Java script you put on your site but Quantcast is like net Nielsen, Nielsen net ratings or ComScore, but you think of the three they are the one?

Jason Calacanis No, they are not like that because those are sample-based. So those other sites are panel-based, they have like a certain number of people with toolbars and so...

Leo Laporte That’s no good. I want the raw numbers.

Peter Rojas The thing about is the Nielsen’s stuff is really biased against, it’s really biased towards bigger more main stream sites, because if you are going to allow...

Leo Laporte You need a big sample number.

Peter Rojas Company to, yeah to follow what you are doing.

Leo Laporte Yeah, you need a sample, a huge sample size.

Jason Calacanis And with ComScore if you pay ComScore some money your numbers gets better. I am not saying there is anything going on exactly, but it seems like the small sites who don’t pay or underrepresented and the big sites who do pay are, and I hate ComScore. I hope they die.

Leo Laporte Well they put up press releases, they put up, look at the numbers and I was, makes me a little nervous when I see a press release for a website, how well it’s doing.

Jason Calacanis Quantcast is going to crush ConScore. They will be no more ComScore.

Leo Laporte I like the demographic information I get from Quantcast.

Jason Calacanis Is the real numbers, if you are quantified, it’s the real number. You put it on your site, so it’s better than Compete, it’s much better than Alexa. It’s actually the real number and if somebody wont put Quantcast on their site they are not quantified then you are basically scared of actually sharing your numbers.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jason Calacanis That’s what it comes down to and it ends all arguments of whose site is bigger, because it’s by the....

Leo Laporte By the real numbers.

Jason Calacanis And what’s going to happen is Google Analytics already allows you to publish certain data but they haven’t made a list of it yet. So people are going to turn their Google Analytics open to the public and Google will have a ranking of every site by Google Analytics, Quantcast will have one for people who have Quantcast on it and you can actually see a list of the top 1,000 sites and if you look at the top 1,000 site list or top 100 site list...

Leo Laporte It’s real, it’s a real number.

Jason Calacanis Well it actually shows you which ones are quantified and which one aren’t. So they actually do the sample base as well and so you can look at it and say, well you know what this site is number 200, it’s quantified, the 201st site is not quantified. It’s probably...

Leo Laporte You are going to buy 200, you are going to buy...

Jason Calacanis It’s probably going to be 30% bigger. Therefore, the person who has number 201 is incentivized to put Quantcast on.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jason Calacanis That’s basically what it comes down to and if you look at the Gawker Network, it’s incredible. I mean Gawker has 22 million people globally, but it’s interesting if you go to Gawker Media Network you can actually see the individual sites because they will roll up your site. So if you have 10 podcasts you could actually go the individual sites and you could see that Gizmodo is – no site on Gawker individually is over 3.6 million U.S. people, or six million global people. So you can actually get drilled down if you click on the Gawker Media Network up there on the top left.

Leo Laporte We are looking at it right now, yeah.

Jason Calacanis Then you, where it says Gawker Media Network, if you hit sites you can actually see the individual sites and so it’s really cool, like a competitive intelligence, whatever. It makes it...

Leo Laporte I was curious, I’ve been wondering because in radio you’ve got Arbitron, in television you got Nielson, and I was just wondering who is going to win this one in the web. And it sounds like Quantcast is the one.

Peter Rojas Yeah. Because I think like what Jason was saying earlier about panel-based surveys for this stuff is not – it’s just not going to be accurate.

Leo Laporte No, in fact that’s the problem with Arbitron and Nielson.

Peter Rojas They have the same issue.

Leo Laporte This is the same issue.

Peter Rojas If you can measure something in real time, and measure real data, you are always going to have something as more accurate than survey data. Actually I worked in radio – I ran a radio station when I was in college and we had to deal with Arbitron all the time.

Leo Laporte Oh, it’s a nightmare.

Peter Rojas It was a nightmare. And there, I mean people don’t realize that the way that they do things, they’ll actually call people often and say, do you listen to radio on your way to work?

Leo Laporte Right.

Peter Rojas What do you remember – them saying anything. That was how – that was their survey.

Leo Laporte It’s very primitive.

Peter Rojas Yeah.

Leo Laporte Or you get a diary which you got to remember to write down and… Somebody saying – now this is interesting, in the chat room saying please don’t put those site analytics on your site because it’s a privacy concern. They say, the problem is that these sites can…

Jason Calacanis Blah, blah, blah…

Leo Laporte You don’t like…

Jason Calacanis Don’t use the internet. Turn off cookies.

Leo Laporte Well, yeah that’s true.

Jason Calacanis Put on private browsing, go [ph] through tour if you are a knucklehead like that, if you just…

Leo Laporte Well, no, actually if you don’t – no, there is a response, if you don’t like it, turn off JavaScript because all of these use JavaScript.

Jason Calacanis Yes, of course.

Leo Laporte So the no script plug-in, it will tell you what scripts are running, you could selectively turn of the Quantcast scripts if you don’t want to.

Jason Calacanis Yeah.

Leo Laporte And that’s fine with me. If it bugs you, if there is – if you are concerned about privacy and you see you come to my site and you see Quantcast and analytics running, which are – you can selectively turn those scripts off and still use the site fully. And I think that that’s fine with me. Because that’s a minority of people who are going to do that.

Peter Rojas I don’t think it’s that big. I mean again if you are really worried about being tracked, you should just not use the internet entirely.

Jason Calacanis Yeah, probably not a good idea to be on the internet if you are concerned about privacy.

Peter Rojas Yeah, because you really don’t have that much privacy.

Leo Laporte You are kidding. Oh, man. Hey it’s really great to have you guys on. I just – I think the world of both of you, Peter Rojas is of course at, that’s the site which is finally launched and is great – is a social network for gadgeteers.

Peter Rojas And I should note we are having our big launch event in San Francisco on August 4th on Tuesday at 7:00 o’clock at DNA Lounge, it’s completely open to public, all ages, everyone is invited. We’d love to have you there and it’ll be the chance to see a lot of new gadgets for the first time, I think Zune HD be there.

Leo Laporte Veronica Belmont will be there.

Peter Rojas Veronica Belmont is hosting. We managed to convince her to host the event.

Leo Laporte That’s excellent.

Peter Rojas A little arm-twisting, but…

Leo Laporte That will be fun. DNS Lounge, Tuesday in San Francisco.

Peter Rojas Jason, you coming up?

Jason Calacanis I’m probably going to come up for the day, yeah.

Leo Laporte You are kidding. Now I have to go.

Jason Calacanis The only problem is…

Peter Rojas He is on the Board, you got to come. You got to represent the Board.

Leo Laporte Now I have to come.

Jason Calacanis I realize that, I have to be there. But now that you’ve announced it on this thing you realize there is going to be a thousand people in line again.

Peter Rojas We have the space, we can fit a thousand people there.

Leo Laporte E-mail, where should they – if you are going to go, let Peter know that you are coming.

Peter Rojas Yeah, you can come to the site and RSVP or there is a Facebook page…

Leo Laporte So he’ll know how much of a rope line to build.

Peter Rojas Yeah.

Jason Calacanis Well people should really sign over gdgt, it’s and what's cool about the site, the reason I invested in and the reason why I’m joining the Board is because it’s great to get tech news, but what this does is you pick – it’s sort of like Flixster or Goodreads,. You pick all your gadgets and then it consolidates all the news about your gadgets. So I have my cradlepoint in there, I’ve got my iPhone in 3GS in there, I got my BlackBerry in there, I’ve got all these different things that I have and it also let’s you put in what you want and then it consolidates all the information about that. So if somebody is having a discussion like I started the discussion about the 3GS and youtube, and putting up the full res videos as opposed to compressed ones, and you got all these wonky gadget nutcases who will answer your questions and basically participate with you. So it’s sort of like a customized version of a gadget which is what we always wanted to with a gadget but we not really got there. It’s a social network of what's going on with your gadgets. So if you’ve got that like, I don’t know what the camera that you are obsessed with [indiscernible].

Leo Laporte This is the one that I’m obsessed with right now, the CP1, and so I want to join – I don’t have it yet actually, I just ordered it. But I’m going to put it on my want list, and so now I can learn more about it and talk about lenses and stuff. See this is, that’s great.

Jason Calacanis Theirs is going to be 15 people there who have been using it for a year. And so basically you can draft off of them and you add them as friends.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Peter Rojas And the other thing I think is really cool is like it’s a completely open product database. So if there is something that’s missing, you can actually build a page for it, yeah.

Leo Laporte Just add it. Oh, neat.

Peter Rojas And you can actually go and edit that page…

Leo Laporte That’s like Mahalo.

Peter Rojas If the specs are missing or if there is some information that is inaccurate or whatever you can go and correct that. So it’s an open – we have a little bit of Wiki, little bit of social network, all that stuff going on.

Leo Laporte You built the CMS yourself?

Peter Rojas We built them entirely ourselves, yeah.

Leo Laporte That’s crazy. That’s just nuts.

Peter Rojas I know but we – you know how Ryan is.

Leo Laporte Yeah, and you wanted it to be – you want it to work.

Peter Rojas [ph] Ryan knew very specifically what we needed.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Peter Rojas That’s why it took so long.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Peter Rojas And we still have a lot to do and we wanted to make sure that we had something that we knew --that we built ourselves so we could do all the things we needed to do with it – because we have a lot – we have a – we actually – one of the reasons I was in San Francisco this week was to actually build the product roadmap for the next nine months to a year.

Leo Laporte Oh man, you planning that ahead.

Peter Rojas We got a ton of stuff we are going to do.

Leo Laporte So I’m going to start building what I have, what I don’t have on here so I can see. You guys…

Peter Rojas What's your username?

Leo Laporte Leo Laporte. What else would it be.

Peter Rojas There you go.

Leo Laporte Peter’s got 34 gadgets and Ryan has 32 gadgets. I want to see if I can beat them.

Peter Rojas I’m sure you can.

Leo Laporte I bet I can.

Jason Calacanis That’s part of the fun, that’s part of the fun. And so it’s like you had to see what’s it – you know it’s like on engadget Peter and Ryan have this thing what’s in your gadget bag or what gadgets you are carrying kind of a thing.

Leo Laporte Right, love that.

Jason Calacanis And it’s basically like, that so you can look at me like oh this person has that camera you like, what else do they have, what lenses do they have?

Leo Laporte Well, you know what I told them before the show began, you know, you need a hook like that that keeps people, not only keeps people coming back but gets them involved and engaged.

Peter Rojas Yes.

Leo Laporte Twitter, for example, just putting the followers count on the front page was brilliant.

Peter Rojas Yes.

Leo Laporte Because everybody started becoming – engaged in how many followers they had. So you need something like that and then it’s nice to have a simple numeric metric that you could say well how many gadgets do you have on here.

Peter Rojas Yes.

Leo Laporte And that forces people to engage. I think it’s a really good idea.

Peter Rojas And the other thing I love about it is being able to see if someone has similar taste in gadgets here, they have the same camera as you, maybe they might have a laptop or a TV…

Leo Laporte Maybe they want a date.

Peter Rojas Well, I’m not…

Leo Laporte Are there any girls on this at all?

Peter Rojas There are a few.

Leo Laporte But I’m telling you down the road, when you get more people this could be a good matchmaking thing.

Peter Rojas That’s – we actually are thinking about that. We want to do like a…

Leo Laporte Yes.

Peter Rojas Matchmaking service not…

Leo Laporte Forget eHarmony.

Peter Rojas A romantic thing but…

Leo Laporte Egadget.

Peter Rojas Egadget

Leo Laporte Yes.

Peter Rojas Romantic gadget.

Leo Laporte Yes, our gadget – our gadget.

Peter Rojas We’ll make it happen.

Leo Laporte Our gadget together!

Leo Laporte, come to the party, DNA Lounge, now that I know that Jason’s going to be there, I’m going to come.

Jason Calacanis Okay, sure.

Leo Laporte Veronica wasn’t enough but I had Jason put me over the top.

Jason Calacanis Yes, most people doubt their decision making process, and that’s like beautiful brilliant Veronica…

Leo Laporte You know, it’s getting really incestuous; I can’t have anybody on anymore that doesn’t know and have business relationship with everybody else. We are all just kind of – we got to, what’s going on here?

Peter Rojas We’re all too awesome.

Leo Laporte We are all just…

Jason Calacanis No conflict, no interest.

Leo Laporte Oh I like it.

Jason Calacanis Yes, that was a famous [ph] Michael Moretts, the VC from Squire, no conflict, no interest; I’m so conflicted I can’t do anything.

Leo Laporte I’m writing that down. There is another title for the show. We got way too many titles – no conflict…

Jason Calacanis Incest is best.

Leo Laporte That’s not going to be the title.

Jason Calacanis I mean in terms of relationships in business.

Leo Laporte Well, it’s all who you know, it’s all friends, buddies.

Jason Calacanis Collaboration.

Leo Laporte People you love, people who you know are smart, you know you want to work with and I think that that makes sense.

Jason Calacanis Yes, who you trust.

Leo Laporte The people that I want to work with on this show are people who want to work with each other, I mean just makes sense.

Jason Calacanis, always great to have you on, it’s, Mahalo, and Jason’s Twist podcast, how do I find out about that, do I go to your website…

Jason Calacanis It’s very simple, just go to, and it’s right there, and…

Leo Laporte Every Friday?

Jason Calacanis Every Friday 1:00 O’clock if I’m around, sometimes I’m traveling and just a tiny plug I’m looking for writers, “how-to” writers so, if you go to, we are trying to make a thousand how-to articles a week, so we need some writers; if you know people looking to make a little extra cash…

Leo Laporte Okay, is that something new for you, that the “how-to” stuff?

Jason Calacanis Well, mahalo tasks – is basically like our little version of Amazon Turk, so we will put in there like, write a how-to article for $7 and then you also get half of the Google AdSense point forward.

Leo Laporte The revenue

Jason Calacanis So, like you’ll make like 7 bucks now and then you might make another 100 or 200 or some of these make 1,000, 2,000 a year going forward. So we are trying to find writers who want to build it up with us, if you know any.

Leo Laporte It’s a great model. I think I might know a few, maybe somebody listening. Jason, Peter thanks for joining us, thank you all for being here, don’t forget you can see this show live; we do it every Sunday afternoon, 3:00 PM Pacific, 6:00 Eastern, that’s if I do my math right 22:00 UTC at, that’s the website and of course you can subscribe to this show and you get it automatically on iTunes and the Zune store, best thing to do, go to the iTunes Store, click the podcast link, we are on the left of the providers TWiT.TV and there is a whole bunch of shows including this WEEK in TECH.

Thank you all for being here, we’ll see you next time another TWiT is in the can.


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