TWiT 214/Transcript

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Episode 214


This transcript is provided by our friends at Pods in Print

Leo Laporte Bandwidth for this WEEK in TECH is provided AOL Music and where you can get free MP3s, exclusive interviews and more.

This is TWiT, this WEEK in TECH, Episode 214 for September 28, 2009: Live From Caracas.

This WEEK in TECH is brought to you by Sign up for the Platinum plan and get two free books. Go to, and follow Audible on Twitter, user ID audible_com; and by, the fast and easy way to publish a high-quality website or blog. For a free trial and 10% off your new account, go to; and by Carbonite the leader in online backup. Back up your PC or Mac offsite, securely and automatically. For a free trial offer plus two free months with purchase go to, offer code TWiT.

This is TWiT, this WEEK in TECH, the show that covers all of the hot tech news and much of it that really isn’t that interesting, every single week. Starting with today are my good buddy, my old friend Mr. Patrick Norton from Tekzilla. He’s on from his – it looks like it’s – you’ve got one of those big snap-on toolboxes behind you. Is this your garage?

Patrick Norton No, it’s actually an IKEA cabinet in the corner of the dining room.

Leo Laporte But nice red metal, enamel, and steel.

Patrick Norton It looks smart.

Leo Laporte It’s very attractive.

Patrick Norton Thank you.

Leo Laporte Yes, thank you for joining us today. Also here, very glad to have, Mr. Kevin Rose.

Patrick Norton K Rose!

Kevin Rose Thanks for having me.

Leo Laporte K Rose.

Kevin Rose I just want to say big congrats to Brett Favre for his win today. Thank you.

Leo Laporte He is a –

Patrick Norton Who do you play for?

Kevin Rose Minnesota.

Patrick Norton Really?

Leo Laporte Remember? They picked him up. Yeah.

Kevin Rose They beat the 49ers.

Leo Laporte The beat the 9ers? The undefeated 49ers?

Kevin Rose At the last second, touchdown pass.

John C. Dvorak So why would you congratulate that miserable team? And that guy, by the way, Favre will be probably not even playing by the end of the season.

Kevin Rose Oh!

Leo Laporte Because he’s so old?

Kevin Rose He missed games in the past, so I can see what you’d say that.

Leo Laporte The third voice, the disembodied voice of John C. Dvorak, oohhhh!, from

John C. Dvorak

Leo Laporte Yes, did I say that,

John C. Dvorak Yes, I missed out camera. I screwed up and I forgot my camera.

Leo Laporte I don’t care. That’s all right.

John C. Dvorak Okay. Nobody cares.

Leo Laporte We know nobody cares. If I were like a real television station I’d put a big ugly picture of you up on the screen.

John C. Dvorak But that would just be my picture.

Leo Laporte The best thing would be –

Patrick Norton Put John in the [ph] still store (03:05) –

Leo Laporte If I could get a picture of you, John – yeah, in the [ph] stills store. (03:06) If I get picture of you, John, holding a phone, and I could say on location in Caracas.

John C. Dvorak Exactly, with a map superimposed behind me.

Leo Laporte You know a little dot, little pin in the map. I think it would be kind of fun to do this stuff very retro, like just old school TV. Just kind of fun, I could make it – I can make it black and white. I don’t know if that’s good or not, but I could do that much.

Patrick Norton It’s certainly retro.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I just feel like – I feel like Edward R. Murrow: “Good night, and good luck.” Did you see Google misspelled its name on the website today?

Patrick Norton Really?

Leo Laporte Two Ls.

Patrick Norton Googlle!

Leo Laporte But there’s a reason. It’s really – it was really funny when it first happened to see all the people on Facebook and Twitter going, Google, what’s going on, what is happening? And then everybody realized, oh, it’s Google’s 11th birthday. Oh, see ll is like 11, get it? So –

Patrick Norton Wow!

Leo Laporte Now I wonder – and I should I try this. If you went to g-o-o-g-l-l-e, would you – were they smart enough to reserve? No, they didn’t reserve that. See, that would have been cool. But they didn’t do that. So, Happy 11th Birthday.

Kevin Rose They have the extra O I think. Yeah, they have the extra O.

Leo Laporte Like a three O, Gooogle, they own that?

Kevin Rose Yeah. They own that.

Leo Laporte That’s cool.

Patrick Norton Surprised, they didn’t do 010111.

Leo Laporte That would have been cool too. They could have turned it into – something. Google is 11, although nobody agrees on exactly when Google was started. Google has decided to make the 27th its official birthday. I guess that’s when they – I don’t know if that’s when they went live or filed for the name, or I can’t remember why it’s their 11th birthday.

And if you – and if, by the way, if you Google, you click the thing, you can’t – that doesn’t have any information on it. But Happy Birthday, anyway.

Do you remember, you were at TechTV, I think. All of you guys. When Google started, do you remember our early coverage of Google at all? I don’t remember it.

Patrick Norton It sort of snuck up on everybody.

Leo Laporte I kind of remember first using it. And John, I remember you would ask people what – when Google was, you know, became big among the geeks, you’d ask them what search engine they used. And if they said Yahoo! you would kind of think less of them.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, actually –

Leo Laporte It’s good test.

John C. Dvorak When I was doing Big Thinkers.

Leo Laporte Right.

John C. Dvorak Which was – could have been named Big Stinkers – I would – have all these different people come on and I’d ask every one of them what they would use. It was kind of the last question of the interview and they had all said Yahoo! without exception.

Leo Laporte Very innocently you would ask that.

Patrick Norton Waiting for one of them finally to say AltaVista, the true search engine of choice.

Leo Laporte To stumble and say AltaVista. Anyway, Happy Birthday Google, and now 11 years old. And that just means we are getting older. That’s all that means.

Google introduced – and I’d love to know what you guys think of this, this Sidewiki thing – and got a lot of howls from the Internet. The idea is you go to a web page and if you have the Sidewiki, actually if you have the – either if you have the Google Toolbar installed or down the road Chrome is going to support this, that’s what’s really scary. So if you are using Chrome and you go to a website, you’ll see a little button on the left and you can open that side bar and it will have comments from people – that are not hosted by the website but hosted by Google, and that the owner of the website has no control over. It’s not a wiki but it’s – basically it’s a third party commenting system on websites.

John C. Dvorak It’s a kvetching system.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I asked Seth Goden about that because –

Kevin Rose These things are always tricky. Take it from the DiggBar, which also had comments that you could fold down on top of other people’s sites.

Leo Laporte Right, right. You got a lot of heat for that and the framing.

Kevin Rose Yes, there’s good and bad.

John C. Dvorak I first saw one of these things back in the late 90s, and then Microsoft was going to do something similar. And these things get rejected by the public. They are annoying.

Leo Laporte The thing they will make it a little more concerning is if they build it into Chrome and you are using Chrome, you just get it kind of automatic – I mean, I am not going to install Google Toolbar. Who wants to install Google Toolbar?

Kevin Rose Have you guys heard much about the Facebook browser and when that’s coming out?

Leo Laporte They have a browser?

Kevin Rose I don’t know that they have a browser.

Leo Laporte Yes, you do. Yes, you do.

Kevin Rose That was just a little something I heard. I don’t know where I heard it.

Leo Laporte Well, that is a scoop.

Kevin Rose Okay, I am going to drink my coffee now.

Leo Laporte Yeah. I heard all about that.

Patrick Norton Does this mean you are now thinking about the Digg browser?

Leo Laporte I heard all about that.

Patrick Norton You going to build it on IE, Kevin?

Leo Laporte I do love – I love Facebook Lite.

Kevin Rose That would be my last choice.

Leo Laporte Yeah. No, I love Facebook. Well, Google did that, did you see? That was the other thing Google did. The Wave Team finally got tired of trying to make Wave work in Chrome – or Internet Explorer, because it needs HTML5 and IE has no HTML5. So they just made a Chrome insert for Internet Explorer. So now when you go to a site that needs HTML5 –

Patrick Norton It launches Chrome inside of your browser to play HTML5? That’s hack.

Leo Laporte It’s – yeah. The site can say, you need a little add-on and it puts a Chrome frame inside of IE.

Patrick Norton What it should also say is, on the crop to that, is your browser sucks. Try something else.

Leo Laporte That’s basically –

Patrick Norton Although I’ve got to say – I’ve got to say Internet Explorer has been lower in resource usage than the IE8, Fox, and yeah, than Firefox and to a lesser degree Chrome. And the whole multiprocess thing in Chrome has started to drive me insane.

Leo Laporte Really? I like the speed of Chrome. I miss the Firefox extensions, but Firefox seems to be turning into a pig.

Kevin Rose Now Chrome is built on WebKit, right?

Leo Laporte Firefox is definitely a pig. Say again?

Kevin Rose Chrome is built on WebKit, correct?

Leo Laporte Yes, that’s right.

Kevin Rose Okay, so we have Safari and Chrome now on WebKit and of course Safari on – for the iPhone.

Leo Laporte I think though that the – Chrome is a fork of – I don’t know if it’s, I don’t know this actually. But I would guess it’s a fork of WebKit. In other words that it’s separated now off of WebKit. I don’t know if they fold new WebKit stuff back into it or if any – and this is more to the point, if any of the features of Chrome get back into Safari. That would be the – if that were the case, that would be great news because Safari and Chrome would kind of be on a par.

Does anybody know that? I don’t know if they are a fork, or kind of related to the project.

John C. Dvorak Sure the chat room knows.

Leo Laporte I am looking in the chat room. As usual they are busy talking about something else. They have no idea.

Eric Schmidt says Google is back on the acquisition trail, which surprised me because I didn’t know they are off it. But apparently they had slowed way down on buying stuff.

Patrick Norton They didn’t buy Digg.

Leo Laporte That might be a sore spot, Patrick. I’m not sure I would raise that.

Kevin Rose Want to enjoy this coffee again, Patrick? Thank you.

Leo Laporte Maybe a little bit of a sore point. I know that Mike Arrington thought that was going to happen. You could tell us now, Kevin, was Mike right?

Kevin Rose I can’t. There are documents, I will say, there are documents that prevent me from telling you this type of stuff. That I can say.

Leo Laporte Okay, so Mike was right. I’m going to guess. Google bought DoubleClick for $3.2 billion last year, YouTube for 1.65 in 2006. So it is not like they have not been buying anything. But now he says, Eric Schmidt says, we have $19 billion in cash.

Kevin Rose If they were smart, they would buy Twitter right now and just…

Leo Laporte You think?

Kevin Rose Oh, absolutely.

Leo Laporte Twitter might be expensive now. They got another $100 million [ph] wrap, (10:51) at least that is the rumor. That values them at 1 billion.

Patrick Norton Expensive compared to 19 billon in –

Leo Laporte That is true.

Patrick Norton sitting around earning what, 2% interest?

Leo Laporte This is 5% of Google’s cash fund. What would they do – what would you do if he – let’s say okay, this is good. Let’s say you are Google, Kevin. And so the first thing you says is, all right let’s spend a little bit of this money and let’s buy Twitter. Do you do anything different with Twitter? What do you do with Twitter now that – if you are Google and you have it?

Kevin Rose You use the data, obviously, because I mean if you think about the way that that page rank works, it’s based on humans going and creating links on web pages and then publishing those pages to the web. They crawl it make and they can determine rank and relevance based on that. So Twitter is essentially the same thing, but more real time, right, because you have people sending out links. Those humans could then have like a people rank applied to them and they would have a more real time search. And I think that’s where Twitter is going. I mean, they have hinted in that direction for a long time now. You can see how quick they are able to break things like with their trends and other things they have going on. And if they folded this into search, it would be a huge win for them.

Leo Laporte You said an interesting thing though, because right now with Twitter that – this is the problem. You get this trending stories, but there’s no karma, there’s no ranking of the people. So you get stupid trending stories as well.

Kevin Rose Right, you get good night around…

Leo Laporte In the evening.

Kevin Rose …11 o’clock eastern time. All of a sudden that becomes trending because everyone is saying good night to everyone else.

Leo Laporte Right.

Kevin Rose But there is a lot of other stuff going on behind the scenes with this data. People are starting to look at who these individuals are, how [ph] fresh (12:29) they are, how good they are at finding links that eventually become very popular. We might be playing around with that kind of data. So it’s like there’s a lot people that are going to leverage this stuff for a more real-time web here very shortly.

Leo Laporte And one of the things that people often talk about – do you think this is valuable? – is mapping. I hate using these terms because it’s very jargony, but mapping your social graph to this search which means, in a sense, these are the people I care about and Twitter does this very well because those are the people I follow, and what do they say about a topic –

Kevin Rose Right.

Leo Laporte As opposed to just – both are valuable. I’d like to know what the community at large is saying about Iran, the elections in Iran, but I’d also like to know what those handpicked 300 people that I follow say about Iran.

Kevin Rose Right. Absolutely, I think that this is baby steps in eventually being able to ask questions of the social graph. So being able to say okay, I am looking for a dentist in San Francisco. It’s not who is the most followed dentist, but based on people I trust, and I put weight into their opinion, who are they following and who do they think is relevant for me? And can the graph provide me that answer back. So it’s early days but it’s all stuff that people are trying to make sense of right now.

Leo Laporte I keep hearing people talk about this and I just wonder what the world is going to look like. Does Google feel like if they don’t do this, if they just stay a stale, old index, the web search engine, that they are going to miss out, do you think? Is this real-time search going to be more important in the long run or is it just another form of search?

Kevin Rose In my mind it is just an evolution of the way things are going. Like you said with the – originally, when you were creating web pages and that’s where you were placing your weight in actually linking something up. I mean it’s – the same thing is happening all the time. Millions of links per day are being sent out and linked up on Twitter. So it’s a more real-time feed than actually waiting for someone to go and blog about something or someone to go and publish a web page about something.

Patrick Norton The whole idea is that if you survey a group, the group’s choices tend to reflect around what becomes an accurate answer.

Kevin Rose Wisdom in the crowd.

Patrick Norton I’m trying to remember, there is a phrase for that when you’re doing futuristics and political science and stuff.

Leo Laporte Right.

Kevin Rose Pick up the book The Wisdom of the Crowds. It is all about that.

Patrick Norton That’s the one.

Kevin Rose It’s an amazing read, yeah.

Leo Laporte James Serawiki, yeah.

Kevin Rose Yes.

Leo Laporte You hadn’t read that when you started Digg.

Kevin Rose I hadn’t.

Leo Laporte Actually it wasn’t out – I don’t think it was out when you started Digg.

Kevin Rose Maybe. I don’t – I know it was out within the six months to a year, because all of a sudden reporters kept asking me, “have you read the book, have you read the book”, and I am like “no, I am kind of scared now to read this. It might change or shape my feelings on the topic.” But I read it and then I was just like, wow, this all kind of makes sense now. It’s a great read.

Leo Laporte However, in hindsight – now, you have been working with the wisdom of crowds for seven years – in hindsight, are there some pitfalls, some things that maybe – have you learned?

Kevin Rose Yeah, I don’t think…

Patrick Norton They tend to open a lot of pictures of Anna Kournikova – or try to.

Kevin Rose I have Dugg a few of those myself. Now seriously, I don’t think that Digg is a true wisdom of the crowds. I mean, when you sort kind of our upcoming section or our stories that are about – in the homepage, you kind of see which way the crowd is leaning. You see the number of Diggs, you see what people are commenting on, you see who the submitter is. And so a true wisdom of the crowds is done on an individual basis where they have no information about how the rest of the crowd is weighing in on that particular topic. So we have a little product coming out in a few weeks that is going to get away – get us a little bit closer to that goal of having an individual going out, checking something out, and saying okay, does this really matter to me, is it something I want to vote on?

Leo Laporte You do this to me every freaking time you are on the show.

Kevin Rose I am sorry.

Leo Laporte Kevin always has – maybe it is just a measure of how many new products you have coming out, but you are always saying, “and in two weeks we’ve got something really exciting.” Is this a big – I got the sense from your interview at TechCrunch50, with TechCrunch that this was a big announcement.

Kevin Rose Yeah, this one is going to be a smaller feature that will be rolled into a much bigger redesign that’s coming a little bit later.

Leo Laporte So you do have a big redesign on the way?

Kevin Rose Yeah, the problem, honestly, is that MySQL can only go so far and we’ve kind of hit those limits now. We’re doing right around 40 million uniques a month and we’ve had to completely re-factor the back-end and so a lot of that work is almost done and then we can apply a new redesign and a bunch of other new stuff onto the site. So we are using some of the infrastructure stuff that Facebook is using, called Cassandra, and a few other projects out there for storing data that’s different than our old MySQL back-end.

Leo Laporte Do you guys work pretty closely with Facebook?

Kevin Rose We contribute – we now write code back and contribute source code back to Cassandra and we’ve helped them out, they help us out. We do – we were over at Twitter a few weeks ago doing a little project together where we all can write code and share it back. So I think that these engineers, we are all buddies with each other. So it’s very common for big tech companies to get together and say, hey, let’s – we are all working on the same problems, we are all having the same scalability issues. Let’s all get our heads in the same room and try and figure them out together.

Leo Laporte I think that’s great.

Kevin Rose That’s the way to do things.

Leo Laporte It is the way to do things. And it is a very new way to do things. I can’t imagine Ford going over, saying hi to GM, saying what do you think about these engine mounts? I mean, I just can’t – maybe they did, I don’t know. But it just doesn’t seem like the way business was done 50 years ago.

Kevin Rose Yeah, I agree. It’s really cool to – that everything is going the open source route and that these guys will get together and it’s – we don’t share, like product visions, like six months what we are planning on doing…

Leo Laporte No, of course not.

Kevin Rose …but if there are certain things that can be done that just benefit everyone, you work together.

Patrick Norton And Cassandra is an open source project, right?

Kevin Rose Right, yeah, absolutely.

Leo Laporte By the way, from the FriendFeed chat room is telling me that WebKit is – that it is the same WebKit for Safari and Chrome and they are both part of that development. So develop – things flow back, much the same way that you were just talking about.

It’s interesting because you at Digg and Facebook and Twitter are both kind of pushing the upper limits of Barry is telling me, our sys-admin, upper limits of what the servers can do. So really what you are finding out is what happens when you get – what happens when you get 22 million visitors, what happens when you get 200 million visitors, what happens next? Nobody has scaled like this before.

Kevin Rose Yeah, it takes a different type of engineer to work on it.

Leo Laporte Yeah, no kidding. No kidding. It’s pretty impressive. Let’s see I want to take a break. We’ve got a numbers of sponsors. I just want to get a couple in, or get one in anyway before we get to – I want to ask you about the [ph] Fit Bit, (19:14) Kevin, and also about TechCrunch50. I know you were a judge there and if you saw anything really cool. I am sure people were really happy to have you in there.

But first let’s talk about backup with Carbonite. You’ve heard me talked about this. In fact one of our hosts just got a Macintosh, she is brand new, switched to the Mac from Windows and she said, “all right, it’s a laptop. I know I got to back it up. What do you recommend?” I said, “Well, it’s kind of a no-brainer. You got to get Carbonite for a laptop because Carbonite backs up over the internet. This is the beauty of it. With Carbonite – in fact you can go there right now, If you use the coupon code “TWiT”, you can try it free even without a credit card. You don’t need a credit card to sign up so you can just install it, and you will see what it starts doing immediately, is backing up to the internet all your financial records, your photos, your email. All the stuff that you can’t afford to lose.

If you use the coupon code “TWiT”, you can try it free even without a credit card. You don’t need a credit card to sign up so you can just install it, and you will see what it starts doing immediately is backing up to the internet all your financial records, your photos, your email, all the stuff that you can’t afford to lose. Don’t worry about security, it’s using AES-256 bit encryption, really, really strong encryption on the drive before it sends it and then SSL on the way, so it’s double encrypted so your privacy is absolutely protected.

But then it’s safe in the cloud, so even if the worst happens – fire, flood, a hurricane, tornado and everything is gone and flattened, Carbonite’s got it backed up and you get it back. You can even go to your Carbonite account from any computer and get those files. So you never lose data again. This is how I got to know Carbonite. I lost a couple of podcasts about three or four years ago, ten Giz Wizes; I had to call Dick and say, “would you mind recording those again?” And then we had interviewed, I think it was Brian Aker, I’m trying to remember, somebody from the, maybe it was from MySQL, and I interviewed him once with Chris DiBona for FLOSS and lost it; interviewed him again, lost it, I had to send the guy a basket – a gift basket before we got him back on. That’s when I said, I need Carbonite.

Now I don’t have to worry. And the beauty of this is, it is unlimited back-up, everything that’s on your hard drive. So I don’t have to think, oh, gosh, those podcasts, that’s gigabytes. It just does it, backs them up in the background, always up to date and unlimited backup for less than 5 bucks a month. That’s the beauty of this. Mac or PC, 54.95 a year, I think, but try it free, go to, use the coupon code “TWiT” and if you do that, by the way, and then decide to buy you get two free months. You have to use the free trial first, it’s a little confusing, you can’t just buy it, use the coupon code and get two free months, you have to use the trial first. Tomorrow if you want to buy it, you’ll get the two free months. Carbonite, backup done right. I heard somebody – I just heard somebody leave. John, did you go somewhere?

John C. Dvorak No, no.

Leo Laporte Okay. I heard a door slam.

John C. Dvorak Not here, so it must have been someone else.

Leo Laporte Okay. You have been quiet.

John C. Dvorak Or it could be my daughter scampering in and out looking for a USB drive.

Leo Laporte Have you guys been watching the USB 3? Did you cover this in Tekzilla yet, Patrick?

Patrick Norton I have been poking around on it, waiting for something really solid to come up to talk about. Because you know – remember when USB came out and then about two, four years later it was on every PC made, and then about six years after that the – what was the original gumdrop, was it an iMac? It’s been so long, like ’98.

Leo Laporte Yes, the iMac.

Patrick Norton Then suddenly a year after that there were actually USB peripherals in volume.

Leo Laporte Right.

Patrick Norton So I’m not…

Leo Laporte I think it will go faster this time.

Patrick Norton I think it will go faster this time, but I’m not expecting a real rush at this point.

John C. Dvorak But it’s going to faster.

Leo Laporte The USB 3, it’s four gigabits.

John C. Dvorak It’s stuck in the middle of nowhere.

Leo Laporte What? You don’t think?

John C. Dvorak No, I think it is going to go fast when they finally – I mean – somebody is stalling on it. The thing is not going to show up.

Leo Laporte Well, now they are saying the first hardware is going to come out this year, computers with it are going to start coming out – Patrick, you…

Patrick Norton No, it’s just…

Leo Laporte You are sounding like John, you are very skeptical, aren’t you?

Patrick Norton Well, partially it’s because, like did you know that 802.11n, the spec was finally officialized about two weeks ago?

Leo Laporte Finally. Finally.

Patrick Norton So it’s – they released the potential spec for this – for USB 3.0 back in November of 2008. You know, I have nothing against a faster, better USB; I’m just kind of curious to see how they are going to implement it and more importantly, what’s actually going to come close to using that unless they expect people to do a lot of outboard Flash-based hard drives, which within 18 months could be a reality. Sort of an outboard Flash-based RAID could be really interesting.

Leo Laporte Right. Well, get ready because the next thing is Light Peak. Did you – Intel at the IDF this week, the Intel Developers Forum, showed this new 10 gigabit connection. Basically it’s fibre optic, it’s a little thin thing, so small that you can build a surface mat connector on the motherboard for it. They showed it first at IDF. It turns out now, I’m looking at a number of news stories that say just as Apple shepherded FireWire out and SCSI too, really, they – Apple’s also behind this Light Peak thing with Intel.

So if you thought four gigabits wasn’t fast enough with USB 3, well, don’t worry because we’re going to have 10 gigabits. I don’t know…

John C. Dvorak Yes, that’s actually engineered to go to 100 rather easily.

Leo Laporte So, what is – what do you use this stuff with? I mean…

John C. Dvorak This is bogus.

Patrick Norton Flash-based memory, I mean, John’s half right, it’s half bogus, it’s also half future-proofing because it looks like Flash-based hard drives are going to go mainstream probably inside of two to three years and are going to be pretty affordable options by the end of next year like, by the end of 2010, I think Flash-based hard drives and notebooks are going to be relatively common.

Leo Laporte I put one in my MacBook and I’ll never go back, it’s amazing.

Patrick Norton Which one did you get?

Leo Laporte I think it was an OCZ – you don’t need to get the X25, the hot Intel.

Patrick Norton It’s nice.

Leo Laporte It’s nice, but it’s very pricey. You get a lot of the benefit from OCZ, I mean, my boot, now, my boot time is almost instantaneous. Once it goes through the memory and the post stuff, when it actually starts hitting the hard drive, from the time it starts hitting the hard drive to the time it’s ready to use is literally three or four seconds on the Mac. That – it’s not normally that fast.

Patrick Norton It’s like an order of magnitude faster on boot…

Leo Laporte It’s – yes.

Patrick Norton On Prolog machines.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Patrick Norton We actually had Anand from We were talking to him about some of the stuff at IDF and for a separate thing interviewed him, because he was the guy who uncovered a lot of the flaws in the early SSD drives. So he is a huge, huge fan of going to solid state, and it was kind of funny to hear him like, do you know what I mean? Like he is obviously not as grouchy as John C. Dvorak or as sort of pessimistic as I am, but it was fun to watch him because he was like, SSDs are amazing, and everybody is going to want them. And it’s – not because they are, you know, they are not exactly cheap yet, but it’s astonishing the kind of performance boost you get out of them.

Leo Laporte It was [ph] Alan Mobantano, (26:04) who is my hard drive – SSD consultant, he does testing for PC Perspective. This guy is like – he is the guy who found the fragmentation issue with the Intel drives and Intel denied it at first and then they said, oh no, you are right. And they upgraded it. But he recommended the Corsair S128, that’s what I bought, it’s a 128 gig Corsair, 400 bucks I think, something like that and…

Patrick Norton A little out of my league at this point, but a nice hard drive.

Leo Laporte Remarkable, but then I only have 128 gig so I’m an idiot. I bought – I took out my SuperDrive and I bought this thing that mounts another – so I have two hard drives in my MacBook. So I have…

John C. Dvorak Why?

Leo Laporte Because then I can put more stuff on it.

Patrick Norton Because he is adding another 92 gigabytes in podcasts every week, John.

John C. Dvorak With what?

Leo Laporte So, no, I filled it up. So, John, so the boot drive –

John C. Dvorak With what?

Leo Laporte ...which is this SSD, is really fast, boots and then all the data is on the second 320, it is actually, I think it was a 320 gig drive was the original Apple drive that I took out to put the SSD in. And no, with pictures, with music, but then I also got a external drive, a terabyte, or a 750 gig external so that…

Patrick Norton So, wait a second Leo, you are saying all this is on your MacBook?

Leo Laporte Yes.

Patrick Norton On your Mac, wow.

Leo Laporte It’s kind of stupid. It’s my main computer.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, it’s nuts.

Leo Laporte No, but it’s my main computer. I don’t – you know, I don’t use a desktop at home.

John C. Dvorak It’s your main computer, look where you are sitting, for one thing you are in this office.

Leo Laporte Well, I’m surrounded by 14 computers, but I can’t take these home.

Patrick Norton John, you’ve been slagging Flash drives in your column. Why – have you ever actually…

Leo Laporte I love Flash drives. Really, John doesn’t like them?

Patrick Norton John wrote a big column for about how Flash drives were the beginning of the end of all humanity and that they are going to kill us all. I mean, have you ever actually used one in a computer yet, John?

John C. Dvorak I have a machine right here that has a Flash – that has one of the Intel drives as a matter of fact.

Patrick Norton And you don’t like it. You do not see a performance improvement? You don’t enjoyed it at all, doesn’t increase productivity or…

Leo Laporte That’s because it’s Windows, I don’t think Windows gets as much benefit.

John C. Dvorak I’m actually running Linux on it.

Leo Laporte Oh. And you don’t see a speed improvement?

John C. Dvorak Well, yes, because it’s a small – it’s actually a machine that’s kind of weirdly architectured, it’s running Atom.

Leo Laporte Oh, no, no, then you won’t get it. I put – no, no…

John C. Dvorak It does fine. It is a small little machine.

Leo Laporte You won’t get the benefit because these atom motherboards don’t have the throughput on the motherboard. You won’t see – you wasted your money on an X25 in that thing; that’s nuts, you should put the stupidest…

John C. Dvorak I wasted my money?

Leo Laporte Well, not your money, whoever gave it to you’s money.

Kevin Rose Leo, I need some clarity here. I have a MacBook Pro, tell me which drive I need to buy right now?

Leo Laporte So what you do, it’s very easy in a Pro, you can just take out the cover and then you are going to see the battery there; you also the see the hard drive on the new unibodies…

Kevin Rose Right.

Leo Laporte So it is very easy, it is a couple of screws to take the hard drive out; they do screw it in. I bought the Corsair S128, I don’t know what the price is now, it’s probably under 400 bucks. One – not even one bounce to launch an application, it doesn’t bounce at all, just boom. I promise you, Kevin, you will really be glad you did this.

Kevin Rose The less bouncing the better for me. I’m happy about it.

Leo Laporte Actually, [ph] Alan (29:10) says the X25M is a good choice for the MacBook because that bus will take advantage of it. But the atom, the atom motherboard buses won’t. I put…

John C. Dvorak So I just basically got hornswoggled?

Leo Laporte Yes. You are not seeing the benefit of an SSD.

Patrick Norton Well, it’s performing better…

John C. Dvorak These drives I can [ph] take it (29:25) and put it [ph] someplace else (29:26)?

Leo Laporte Yes, that’s what I would do. I’d pop that X25 out of the netbook and put it in a real laptop and you will…

John C. Dvorak This is actually not a netbook, it’s a nettop.

Leo Laporte A what? A netpop?

John C. Dvorak No, it’s not in a netbook, it’s in a little bitty small form factor desktop box.

Leo Laporte All right. Okay. But, yes, the atom motherboard – because I had the same issue and I asked [ph] Alan (29:51) and he said well, the issue is that the bus speeds on those motherboards – he told me the details and I can’t remember the details; I will have to ask him again. He is in the chat room. Just don’t take advantage of the speed of the SSD drive. But you actually…

Kevin Rose So, I’m good with the unibody 2.8GHz.

Leo Laporte Oh, yeah, you’ll – oh Kevin, you are going to love it.

Kevin Rose Alright, sweet.

John C. Dvorak Yeah.

Leo Laporte It is probably the best upgrade ever made. I think better than putting more RAM in. It’s a great upgrade. It doesn’t – [ph] Mal Montano (30:20) says it doesn’t use the full SATA2 speed. So what you want is a motherboard that use – goes full SATA2 speed, which is what, 3 gigabits? And it doesn’t go to 3 gigabits, so you are just not seeing the benefit. You’re seeing the reduced access time. There’s two benefits to SSD. Zero – virtually zero access time because it’s random access and faster reads. But you don’t see the faster read benefit. Okay, well, glad you’re all –

John C. Dvorak I’m in.

Patrick Norton I’m in.

Kevin Rose I’m in

Leo Laporte I’m in! I convinced you.

John C. Dvorak I’m buying whatever you’re selling there Leo.

Leo Laporte French Parliament may mandate full Photoshop disclosure. If you use Photoshop, you will have to put it in writing on the advertisement. I think this is actually a very – I don’t know, it’s not a bad idea. Over 50 politicians in the French Assembly say that anytime a picture has been modified, Photoshopped in effect, in an advertisement, in a news story, in product packaging, you’ll have to put the footer “Photograph retouched to modify the physical appearance of a person”. But they –you’d have to do it in French.

John C. Dvorak So I guess – so that all the years and years of airbrushing that went on and all the cutting and pasting and modification of photos that went on for years and years and decades and centuries for all we know, that was okay.

Leo Laporte But now that it is Photoshop? No. You know what's interesting? This is something that would come out of the…

John C. Dvorak Because it’s an American product, the French hate us.

Leo Laporte That’s probably it. No, this sounds like something that would come out of the Berkeley City Council. This is their rationale.

John C. Dvorak Totally.

Leo Laporte It says Photoshopped images can “lead people to believe in a reality that does not actually exist and have a –” – they might as well just put a ban on unicorns on the boxes too, “and have a detrimental effect on adolescents”. Because they’re worried – you know, body image. I don’t know what do you think?

John C. Dvorak Right.

Leo Laporte Good idea?

John C. Dvorak [ph] Well, I guess that gets (32:28) no interest from any of the other people in the gallery.

Leo Laporte I think it’s a good idea. Patrick, Photoshop warnings on all boxes?

Patrick Norton So everything that’s like if they’ve added a little – I just like for objects and people and…

Leo Laporte No, just people, just people.

Patrick Norton Just people.

John C. Dvorak Everything is Photoshopped.

Patrick Norton Okay.

Leo Laporte Everything. You go to a movie…

John C. Dvorak …you do it wherever you take a photo. Especially if you’re a professional, you’re always going to Photoshop it.

Patrick Norton So this is going to stop anorexia and bulimia because now…

Leo Laporte You’ll know the truth.

Patrick Norton …they are going to be unmodified. So the peak of the Bell curve…

Leo Laporte No, people will be modified, they just have to tell you they are modified.

Patrick Norton In what, four point type at the bottom?

Leo Laporte Yeah.

John C. Dvorak See, what does ‘modified’ mean? What about changing the complexion of somebody?

Kevin Rose Exactly. I was going to say the…

John C. Dvorak You know, open up the colors a little bit?

Kevin Rose The number one thing they’re going to do is just mess around with the colors, right? And everything’s going to be –

Leo Laporte Every picture…

Kevin Rose Every picture.

Leo Laporte … I take goes through Lightroom. Every one of them. It’s so –

Kevin Rose Did you see that picture of Carmen Electra without makeup on?

Leo Laporte No. She – is she a dog?

Kevin Rose I’m going to IM it to you.

Patrick Norton No.

Kevin Rose No, it’s amazing.

Leo Laporte She is gorgeous without make-up?

Kevin Rose I’m going to send it to you on IM. Without makeup. She decided to take this picture to show what it’s like without makeup and it was – it was pretty impressive.

Leo Laporte Well that’s why she did it, right?

John C. Dvorak Do we know for a fact? Maybe it was bull, maybe it was BS, maybe it was a scam. Do you know for a fact? Were you there? Did you scratch on her face and see if she had make-up on?

Kevin Rose Well, yeah, but John, surely – John, have you ever walked around the street and seen a spectacularly beautiful woman?

John C. Dvorak Yes.

Kevin Rose Okay.

Leo Laporte Never, I have never done that.

Kevin Rose Was she Photoshopped?

John C. Dvorak But I don’t know if she had makeup on because some of these women can put makeup on, you would never know it was makeup because we’re guys, we haven’t got a clue [indiscernible] (34:58).

Kevin Rose What are you saying that we should have – people should hang a sign around their necks that said ‘I used makeup to modify my image’ on the street?

John C. Dvorak Just like Photoshop.

Leo Laporte You know what, she looks like she is 18. How old is Carmen Electra? She looks completely different.

Kevin Rose I know, it’s crazy.

John C. Dvorak

I’m skeptical.

Leo Laporte What do you mean? No, she’s definitely got no makeup on.

Kevin Rose John’s a hater today.

John C. Dvorak How can you say that from a photo?

Leo Laporte Oh, you mean she’s got, like, different makeup on?

John C. Dvorak Yeah. Her eyes look like they are done.

Leo Laporte You know what, I always –

John C. Dvorak She has got – she’s definitely got mascara on – on those lashes. So there is no way that’s natural.

Leo Laporte I always think when I see pictures –

John C. Dvorak You guys are just buffaloed.

Leo Laporte I always think when I see pictures like this ‘that’s what she would – that’s what it would look like when you – if you woke up next to her, that’s what she would look like’.

Patrick Norton You hope.

John C. Dvorak You guys are [indiscernible] (34:47).

Leo Laporte Just – I can – hey, they should put –

Patrick Norton If I woke up next to Carmen Electra, there’d be a pile of Tequila bottles and probably a warrant for my arrest. So – Carmen Electra with a kitten on her back, you know.

John C. Dvorak You are not going to kick her out of bed for eating crackers, right?

Leo Laporte I think she is – I think she is beautiful. But see, of course if somebody looks like that without makeup, no big deal to publish that picture. Now on the other hand, you know –

John C. Dvorak Somebody in the chat room pointed out that Carmen Electra was – is 37, she’s born in 1972, and you’re telling me she’s got no makeup on [indiscernible] (35:22).

Leo Laporte Look at her, she looks like she is 18.

Patrick Norton But she is from – she is not exactly the middle of Bell curve, she is from the high-end of the Bell curve. She has got great genes.

John C. Dvorak You guys can believe whatever you want.

Leo Laporte I think in France they should put a statement on everything – anytime like a model – wears makeup, “this person has been chemically enhanced – this is not how she looks”.

Patrick Norton We used to wear makeup at TechTV, right?

John C. Dvorak [Indiscernible] (35:47). She probably looks like me without makeup.

Leo Laporte I wore makeup – I’m wearing makeup right now.

Patrick Norton Right now.

Leo Laporte Yeah, no I should say that. I should say ‘this is what I look up – look like without makeup’.

Patrick Norton Fire it up on the lower third, man. Let’s see that lower third up there.

Leo Laporte What do you think?

Kevin Rose I think you are a Dove ad waiting to happen.

Leo Laporte Before, not after. Oh goodness gracious. That’s pretty funny, that was on Diggnation, that’s where I saw that. You guys talked about it. You do watch the fabulous Diggnation show everybody. Where was – you were just – yeah, you guys go all over the place, where was your – were you in London at FOWA?

Kevin Rose No, that’s next week.

Leo Laporte Next week.

Kevin Rose We are not doing a Diggnation out there, but I’ll be out there for the conference.

Leo Laporte I was invited to FOWA but I can’t go because I’m stuck here.

John C. Dvorak What's FOWA?

Leo Laporte Future of Web Applications. You did a big one, that was where you did the gigantic one in –

Kevin Rose That was a huge one, yeah.

Leo Laporte Was it last year, the year before? Huge.

John C. Dvorak Future of Web Applications.

Kevin Rose You should go out next year. It’s a lot of fun out there.

Leo Laporte I’m afraid that I would be arrested and extradited to Switzerland. I don’t want to leave the country.

John C. Dvorak What happened?

Leo Laporte Did you see – did you hear what happened to Roman Polanski?

John C. Dvorak Yeah, I got it, I think it was last night.

Leo Laporte They caught him.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, he’s 76.

Leo Laporte They can’t get Osama Bin Laden, but boy, they got Roman Polanski.

Patrick Norton Well, what's weird about it is that he’s been vacationing there on and off for like 20, 30 years and all of a sudden they – somebody noticed.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, I’m with you Patrick. Something is fishy.

Leo Laporte Fishy, very fishy.

John C. Dvorak Okay, next news item. Kind of a weirdly paced – oddly paced show today.

Leo Laporte Well let’s do a commercial then since the pace is so – so odd anyway.

John C. Dvorak Touché.

Leo Laporte Touché. You know what I said, I told my staff when I walked in here? It’s kind of – I don’t know if you know this, but getting ready for TWiT it’s like a bullfight. I go out in the lounge and I’ve got my staff and they wrap the – you know, the thing around me and they – and I hear the [sings] and then the door opens and I come in here and it’s like – so I tell them as they are wrapping me with the girdle to get ready for the show, I said, “today I will do a 45 minute TWiT”. They didn’t believe me. But I will today. And you will get the bull’s ears, Patrick Norton. Oh yes, yes, the ears for you.

Patrick Norton Very tasty.

Leo Laporte Because you today are not wearing any makeup, are you?

Patrick Norton No.

Leo Laporte No. it is the real, genuine – in fact I don’t think you even shaved for today.

Patrick Norton You are not helping yourself on this 45 minute TWiT.

Leo Laporte I don’t think you even shaved for the show today. Let me tell you my friends about This is the great…

Patrick Norton I spent 23 hours asleep on Friday night dude. I’m lucky to be vertical at this point.

Leo Laporte Wow, you mean you didn’t sleep for 23 hours or you did?

John C. Dvorak Did you have the swine flu?

Patrick Norton No, no, no, I slept from 6 pm on Friday till almost 3 pm on Saturday.

Leo Laporte Why? What was up?

Patrick Norton A combination of hosting a movie for Paramount, movie opening that started on midnight. And so by the time the movie was over and I got out of that, it was I want to say 3:30, almost 4 by the time I got home and got to sleep, and the baby woke up…

Kevin Rose I heard that was scary.

Patrick Norton It was very scary. It was actually –

Leo Laporte What, the baby waking up or the movie?

John C. Dvorak What movie?

Patrick Norton The baby waking up is always scary but in this case…

Leo Laporte What was the movie?

Patrick Norton It was Paranormal Activity.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I’ve started seeing some buzz about that. What is it about?

Patrick Norton Well, it’s about bad stuff happening to a couple.

Leo Laporte Is it a documentary?

Patrick Norton Not exactly.

John C. Dvorak How does it end?

Kevin Rose It’s like Blair Witch. I think it was made for like 10 grand, right? Or something like that? It’s another Blair Witch.

Patrick Norton Yeah, it was made for like no money. Has really – it’s basically – really good use of timing, minimal special effects, spooky as all hell.

Leo Laporte Oh, it’s like the – what was that movie?

John C. Dvorak Blair Witch Hunt.

Leo Laporte Blair Witch Hunt.

Patrick Norton You mean the one that Kevin just said?

Leo Laporte Did he say that?

Patrick Norton That would be the Blair Witch Project. Kevin said it about a minute ago.

Leo Laporte That one. Did he say it? Oh. So it’s like Blair Witch Project.

John C. Dvorak He is mumbling.

Leo Laporte But would you say it’s like the Blair Witch Project?

Patrick Norton You know I managed to actually – by the time I had a chance to see the Blair Witch Project, it was so hyped. I knew there was no way it could be nearly as good as like the nine months of hype I’d heard, so I just never bothered to see it.

John C. Dvorak I never bothered to see it because everyone kept telling me they got seasick watching it.

Leo Laporte Here’s an another picture of Carmen Electra without makeup that’s not quite so flattering. Because she’s making a face.

John C. Dvorak There you go, that’s more like it. But she’s still got makeup on, look over her eyes. That’s makeup.

Kevin Rose How do you know so much about eye makeup, John?

John C. Dvorak Actually, my first wife used to be a makeup artist.

Kevin Rose Oh, well there you go. I think that answers that.

Leo Laporte Your first wife was a makeup artist?

John C. Dvorak Yeah, she did it on her – in her spare time she was yeah. If somebody came over the house for dinner or something, she’d – it would be – they’d walk out of there, it was like ‘wow, this doesn’t even look like the same person’. It’s dynamite stuff.

Leo Laporte Well, here you go John, take a look at this video. What do you think, makeup?

John C. Dvorak Yeah, I think so. She’s wearing eyeliner.

Leo Laporte She looks like a different person. She looks like a completely –

John C. Dvorak She’s got eyeliner around her eyeball.

Patrick Norton Yeah, but you know, it’s like – it’s – these are paparazzi shots from an unflattering angle, probably designed by a – from a…

Leo Laporte It’s happened to all of us.

Patrick Norton …insert name of mega tabloid that basically thrives on doing obnoxious things to celebrities on the cover to push magazines off the newsstands. I mean, Kevin, God help him, if he gets a little bit larger we’re going to start seeing weird shots of Kevin drinking coffee with his hair all fluffed up. Leo Laporte Oh I can’t wait.

John C. Dvorak We’re waiting for that.

Leo Laporte I can’t wait.

Patrick Norton You know, Kevin Rose like climbing up a hill in San Francisco on – you know, with his mouth open or something and it’s like we forget the fact like – French are so paranoid like ‘we have to tell if these are Photoshopped’ and it’s like the entire act of putting someone in a studio, having them professionally lit, professionally made-up, professionally posed.

John C. Dvorak Exactly.

Patrick Norton Photographed under perfect light by a photographer who’s basically an artist, an alchemist with light. You know, the mere fact we don’t even bother to point that is a sad statement on how we treat basically the image. So, like, I think they should point that out on every frickin’ ad and then on top of that they can point out the Photoshopping.

Leo Laporte In fact if you don’t know that you are not really paying attention.

John C. Dvorak Most people don’t know that.

Patrick Norton Most people don’t know that.

Leo Laporte That’s what kids need to learn. This is called media. This is, this is…

Patrick Norton Most people don’t know that, John but it doesn’t – it does not mitigate the impact that the series of images have on people, especially young women in their formative period.

John C. Dvorak I’m in total agreement with you, I’m just saying [Indiscernible] (42:28).

Patrick Norton I’m going to wave my feminist flag here for a moment.

Kevin Rose Have you guys seen the Dove Evolution?

Leo Laporte Yeah, and I think that was the best campaign along these lines.

Kevin Rose Absolutely.

Leo Laporte That really did the job.

Kevin Rose That shows what they can do with Photoshop.

Leo Laporte For people who didn’t see it, it was – interesting that Dove did it – it was an ad campaign or a video that showed…

Kevin Rose I think it’s on YouTube.

Leo Laporte Oh yeah just YouTube Dove. What is it, Dove Evolution, Revolution?

Kevin Rose Evolution, yeah.

Leo Laporte Well worth seeing. Well worth seeing. All right…

Patrick Norton 9.3 million views.

Leo Laporte Wow.

Patrick Norton You know, there is an amazing new service for building websites. Leo, why don’t you tell us a little bit about it?

Leo Laporte Thank you Patrick. I am here standing atop Squarespace mountain where we are about to build a brand new website for somebody in the audience, Actually Kevin Rose’s site is based on Squarespace.

Kevin Rose Yes, indeed.

Leo Laporte One of these days, you will get…

Patrick Norton Digg is built on Squarespace?

Leo Laporte No, not Digg. His blog. Actually…

Kevin Rose Don’t tell anyone!

Leo Laporte … it’s not a bad idea. Squarespace is a – I think they are using some interesting Java technology that allows them to ramp up – you know what it’s great for: if you get Dugg. You’ll never run out of bandwidth with Squarespace, They just - their servers are all virtual and can build up amazing stuff too if you want to build a site. Now I don’t want to say blog, because Squarespace could be a photo gallery, it could be a forum. They have templates for a huge number of different kinds of websites.

So here’s what I want you to do. This is absolutely free. We do this now. I think everyone of our – almost everyone of our sponsors has a free trial. I think this is really great because you are smart people, you are not going to, you know, you got to try it before you buy it. So this is the deal. Go to, no credit card nothing. You just – you’ll be literally – have a site. You are done. They say ‘what you want to call it?’ – Leoville. You are done.

Now you can import seamlessly from your existing blog whether it’s WordPress or TypePad or Blogger, right in and right out. So nothing’s trapped in it. They got an iPhone app, makes it very easy to blog from the iPhone. That’s coming soon. The statistics, the templates that are gorgeous but very easy to modify using AJAX, forums, photo galleries, social integration with all the sites, including Digg. This is a really nice, a really wonderful service. You could try it right now, absolutely free. No credit card required. Just go to and if you decide to sign up – and I think you will – I mean I hope you do – as little as $8 a month, including – that includes hosting, the software, everything. Use the coupon code twit for 10% off.

Squarespace, it is the best, You know, after all these scary stories about WordPress hacks and so forth, it is kind of nice to be on a hosted site where you don’t have to worry about that, they just keep it up the date. I am constantly…

John C. Dvorak Yeah, you know my site I got –

Leo Laporte What, really?

John C. Dvorak Before the upgrade. Somehow – because I mean, one of the bloggers noticed that if you typed in – typically you just, I guess people keep checking on this, if you just type in Dvorak or John Dvorak, we’d always have the same kind of listing in Google. And it would always be headlined by the – one or two spot the Dvorak uncensored blog.

Leo Laporte Right.

John C. Dvorak Disappeared.

Leo Laporte Oh, because Google blocks it if it’s got malware on it.

John C. Dvorak Yeah. Well, no, it wasn’t malware – it was apparently the front template at the very bottom there was a whole bunch of just key words that were dropped in that said “gambling” and “porn” and just a whole slew of keywords with links. I don’t even know what they were trying to accomplish but somebody from Google pointed out that this is – when they see this, they just basically quarantine the site, because they don’t know what’s going on.

Leo Laporte Right.

John C. Dvorak And so it’d take about two days to get it back and get rid of all that crap.

Leo Laporte Yeah, it’s very scary. It happened to Scobel. I update – but this is what you have to do if you run your own WordPress blog, you got to check all the time if there is a new one, update it immediately. So you don’t have to worry about this Kevin, you are smart.

Kevin Rose I don’t – yeah, that’s part of problem is I think that there is the people that are was super, super like their own developers, and they want to go the extra mile to customize everything in like crazy, crazy ways and then there’s like Squarespace, sits in that, that spot for me where it will do 99.9% of the stuff I need it to do, and so I don’t ever have to do anything but just write articles and when I log in there is a new interface like every few months because they upgrade it.

Leo Laporte It’s kind of nice just to think about content, and not about anything else. Especially since you spend your day, all day thinking about Digg, the last thing you want to just come home and start…

John C. Dvorak Not enough hours in the day.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I can understand.

John C. Dvorak Better to have them do it.

Leo Laporte I don’t know, I did a search for you, John. I did find your Dvorak Uncensored blog but then the image results for John C. Dvorak are a little odd.

John C. Dvorak Yeah.

Leo Laporte Yeah, one of these things does not belong.

John C. Dvorak What’s wrong with these pictures?

Leo Laporte ‘One of these thing is not like the other’... Why do I see three, four pictures of John C. Dvorak and one picture of Steve Jobs?

John C. Dvorak Yeah, holding an iPhone.

Leo Laporte Very strange. Actually it doesn’t look like – it’s an unhappy iPhone. There is a little…

John C. Dvorak Well, maybe that was – this is a dumb joker.

Leo Laporte Oh there it is, see, and right under it says “John C. Dvorak”. So Google’s not wrong. Look, see?

John C. Dvorak Yeah, Google’s never wrong.

Leo Laporte Google’s got it again.

John C. Dvorak So, here’s the story that I think was interesting.

Leo Laporte Good, please.

John C. Dvorak The Texas Police trying to bust blog commentators.

Leo Laporte This, you know, okay, so what’s happening is that people are saying bad things about the Chief of Police and – I don’t know what they call him: the Sheriff? The Ranger? What do they call the Texas guy? We will say the Chief of Police.

John C. Dvorak Whatever.

Leo Laporte So, he’s investigating to see whether he can shut ‘em down, maybe arrest ‘em, take ‘em away, put ‘em where the sun don’t shine.

John C. Dvorak I’m most amused by people in this day and age – p you know, we had the – I guess, the personal computer revolution began, what, 35 years ago? And then the Internet revolution began, what, 15 years ago? And there are these people that apparently don’t have a clue about how anything works.

Leo Laporte It came from knights in shining armor. Austin Police Chief Art Acevedo, according to the Austin American Statesman, is considering pursuing commentators on blogs who have, one: impersonated him – have you ever been impersonated? I have.

Kevin Rose Yes.

Patrick Norton We all have.

Leo Laporte Sure.

Patrick Norton I think the world works very, very different if you are a senior lawman in Texas than it does if you’re a news commenter in the East Bay, John.

Leo Laporte That’s probably true. Or maligned them, he says, “beyond the boundaries of legal tolerance” whatever that might be.

John C. Dvorak Libel.

Leo Laporte Well they are saying not only libel suits but criminal charges if police believe if these are warranted. “A lot of my people feels it’s time to take these people on, they understand the damage to the organization and quite frankly when people are willfully misleading and lying they are pretty much cowards anyway because they are doing so under the cloaks of anonymity. I don’t like this trend. Remember this article on CNET also refers to that ‘skanks’ in New York City case where Google was forced to give up the name of a blogger who wrote bad things about a model.

John C. Dvorak Exactly it’s the same thing.

Leo Laporte If you are a public figure, I don’t know it’s pretty hard to…

John C. Dvorak Well I know, but – I mean, it depends on whether there’s libel involved, I mean if somebody’s libeling and slandering, and there’s – maybe that you have a point but generally speaking most people who do this sort of thing are just goofs and they are – posing as so and so and they sign it “The Sheriff” . I mean it’s – I can’t see anyone get more worked up about it.

Leo Laporte I wouldn’t mess with a Texas lawman. Did you…

John C. Dvorak I actually cuss at them when I see them. They don’t seem to care.

Leo Laporte You are the kind of guy who probably did that when you were a young, longhaired hippy in Berkeley at Cal, University of California, Berkeley probably you’d do that. Did you call them pigs?

Patrick Norton Drove to Texas to cuss at a lawman? Or called the Berkeley police officer a pig?

Leo Laporte “Hey, pig!” – we love the law enforcement folks.

John C. Dvorak So there is a – my favorite, there used to be a guy that was on – this was until recently on Telegraph Avenue, that sold all these crazy bumper stickers, I mean they were just the wildest ones, and they were all – just nutty, extreme communist bumper stickers and, but he had this one that I always thought was amusing, it said – and I’ll – you know – FUC the police and it was just – and it’s just a beautiful sticker and he had also buttons that said that.

Leo Laporte But no K.

John C. Dvorak I have always - what?

Leo Laporte No K.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, there was a K on there.

Leo Laporte Oh, there was a K too, okay.

John C. Dvorak It was the real deal. And so buy these – you can buy these stickers for a buck, so if you found somebody you didn’t like and you could just –

Leo Laporte Put it on their car!

John C. Dvorak Exactly. You put it on their rear end bumper and they’re just driving around aimlessly and I am sure that the police really got a kick out of that.

Leo Laporte It’s like putting a kick me sign on a guy in high school.

Patrick Norton A little worse, these days.

Kevin Rose No, it’s a little worse.

Leo Laporte Oh man. Go ahead and take that call, I’m sorry. Maybe it’s the Texas police.

Patrick Norton Hello.

John C. Dvorak Oh, she’s going to be back in about three hours.

Leo Laporte So did you get your Fitbit yet, Kevin?

Kevin Rose No, they haven’t – I haven’t even spoken to anyone over at Fitbit, but I…

Leo Laporte So this was a pick, this was your pick. I remember you were on after TechCrunch, it was like TC40 last year.

Kevin Rose Year ago, yeah.

Leo Laporte And you were judging that, it wasn’t the best of. The – Yammer was the best of. Which apparently is still doing quite well. Jason told me that they are doing quite well as a kind of enterprise Twitter. But you liked, and I thought very interesting, the Fitbit and they are finally coming out. They’re a little late. Is it a pedometer, what is it?

Kevin Rose Yeah, so, I mean essentially it is something it’s a little device that is about a little bit smaller than a pack of gum. You either clip it on a wristband or on your waist and you just go about your day, right. So you are just walking around. You could go to the gym, you might walk to lunch and you keep it on you when you sleep as well. And then it syncs back to your computer and then pushes all that data about your movement to the website and then you see basically how your sleep was, were you moving around a lot in your sleep, supposedly it tells you how many calories you burned and how – the distance that you travelled. I don’t how accurate it is but it’s kind of. I don’t know, in my mind these devices are going to take off soon. I mean there is a lot of…

Leo Laporte I love the sleep side of it. I mean pedometer is one thing, but I love ‘how well did you sleep?’

Kevin Rose Yeah.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, I think you might as well get chipped while we are at it.

Kevin Rose This is like, I mean there is a lot of different things that are happening in this space right now, right. You get the Nike Plus which is the same thing but inside of your shoe and that’s built in to all iPhones now and all iPod touches. So when you go to the gym, you exercise, you run down the street it tells you the distance in calories and all that stuff and even like pushes like your favorite song when you’re supposed to be hitting your maximum they call like your burst something or…

Leo Laporte Your push – your push song.

Kevin Rose Yeah, something like that and I even saw recently there was a new treadmill, or not treadmill but a new bike at the gym that you sit down on and you plug your iPhone into it and it’s Nike plus compatible and so you don’t even need the shoes anymore, it just tracks all of your calories and your distance and everything and then uploads it back to the website. So when you log on later it shows you exactly how you have been doing compared to previous times that you exercised.

Patrick Norton How many people are actually using the Nike fit?

Leo Laporte I don’t, but I know a lot of runners do I think.

Kevin Rose Yeah, I think it’s one of these things where Nike – I mean it’s cheap for Nike the device itself is 10 to 15 bucks and if they can lock people into this and create like this experience online where you go there and you share with your friends like the different workouts that you are doing, you can map out different trails that you go on and share it with other people. If they can own that market then you are always going to be buying Nike shoes, right because they own the patent on the little slide-in thing on the shoe.

Leo Laporte I am buying a Fitbit right now, I think there – so they’re available now, people are getting them.

Kevin Rose Yeah, I guess it’s a month or so until they ship them out

Leo Laporte Oh shoot. So you probably would want to like – because if you are going to wear it when you are sleeping have to wear it like all the time. I mean they have like a little bracelet –

Patrick Norton It would imply that, yes.

Leo Laporte You could just guess.

Kevin Rose There’s actually –

John C. Dvorak What about when you take a shower?

Leo Laporte Yeah.

John C. Dvorak You are burning off a lot of energy in the shower, you are scrubbing yourself down – thank you for the picture and –

Kevin Rose It shows how long you showered.

John C. Dvorak It’s a waterproof this device? Is it waterproof?

Leo Laporte I like this – I like this picture of you. Look at this cell phone you got!

John C. Dvorak Isn’t that great. By the way I have been trying to get one of those, those big old clunkers. I think you can still get them, they’re here and there.

Leo Laporte Wouldn’t it be cool?

John C. Dvorak I like the retrofit ones, so it’s an actual cell phone that works.

Leo Laporte That would be so cool if you are at a conference and your phone rings and you pull out this gigantic cell phone and starting talking on it. I think that would be – that’s what Woz would do.

John C. Dvorak [indiscernible] the big laps today (56:08).

Leo Laporte Woz took the, took an old dial phone, like an old Western Electric black rubber dial phone and put cell phone electronics in it and he talks on it on the phone. This is good, this is one of our listeners made this image of John, it says “on location in Caracas”. From now on when you are – when we don’t have video, that’s the picture we are going to show John, I just wanted to warn you.

John C. Dvorak Thank you.

Leo Laporte Consider yourself…

John C. Dvorak Warned.

Leo Laporte …warned.

Patrick Norton [ph] Meco (56:35) is a good place to go for those by the, John.

Leo Laporte [ph] Meco (56:37)?

Patrick Norton [ph] Meco (56:40). Actually it’s probably not too far from where you are right now. He deals in a lot of surplus electronics and vintage electronics. He shows up at DEFCON every year.

Leo Laporte Oh cool.

Kevin Rose He has a couple of those. People like them for the three watt amplifiers inside of them. The big flat honking cell phone amplifiers.

Leo Laporte So would it still – but it’s an analog cell phone, so it wouldn’t – you have to modify it, right?

Patrick Norton Well what you do is you basically – people tweak around with the – people play around with the actual amplification sections of the phone without dealing with the analog section. Basically they turn it into a cell phone booster.

Leo Laporte You put a little cell phone inside it.

John C. Dvorak You’d probably cook your brain.

Leo Laporte Yeah, no kidding.

John C. Dvorak Three watts? My God!

Patrick Norton I think both of them still pale by comparison to the amount of energy that’s hitting your skull from the sun.

Leo Laporte Oh, good. So as long as you stay out of the sun you are okay.

Kevin Rose Exactly.

Leo Laporte Supposedly, maybe Kevin you shouldn’t modify your MacBook Pro just yet because according to an AppleInsider, Apple is about to announce new models of laptops. Now see nobody knows. So this is one of those rumors, but they say that they will update the MacBooks, the cheap white polycarbonate MacBooks and come up with a much or somewhat cheaper laptop, the cheapest Mac laptop they say in Apple history. I think given the sales on the netbooks that’s probably a good idea.

Patrick Norton Maybe it’s what all those 10 inch screens were for.

Leo Laporte Wouldn’t that break everybody’s heart. ‘Oh man, they put it in a MacBook’. What do you – now, I have this conversation on MacBreak Weekly every week, and those guys are really excited about the idea of a Apple tablet and I keep saying, it’s – I don’t know if there is a market for a 10-inch tablet – touch tablet, is there a market for this?

Kevin Rose I have actually found myself – I was in a huge conversation slash argument with Cali Lewis of all people about how an Apple tablet would be just worthless and then about six months later I was trying to use the GPS in my iPhone, then it occurred to me just exactly how much more useable all the iPhone applications would be on a larger screen. Like, I just was thinking seven or eight inch, I think ten inch maybe too big.

Leo Laporte Because you can’t put that in your pocket.

Kevin Rose No.

Patrick Norton Yeah, I was just wondering [indiscernible] (58:54)

John C. Dvorak You look like an idiot when you use it as a phone…

Leo Laporte Well, it’s not going to be a phone at all.

John C. Dvorak …a big giant thing on the side of your head.

Leo Laporte It won’t be a phone. There won’t be a phone. It will have high – you know, 3g – John C. Dvorak ‘Hello Mom!’

Leo Laporte ‘Hi, Ma!’ – it’ll look just like – you know, here we are, we are just saying how we would like to have one of those old fashioned big cell phones, but oh no, if Apple makes a giant slab I am not using it, because it’s modern.

Kevin Rose I just wonder when you think about the device, I mean you can – you see all these Photoshop concepts and everything and it looks really cool and you are like ‘wow that’d look nice sitting on my desk’. But really when I am out and about, what do I want to do? I want to be able to look up something real quick on Google, I want to able to check my email. I want to able to maybe surf a webpage real quick if I need to pull up something.

All those things I can do very well on the iPhone right? And if it’s anything above and beyond that, I have my notebook, right? It’s pretty light, I carry it around and then I pop it open and boom I am on Wi-Fi and I have a full keyboard. Where would this device sit and what would I use it for that I couldn’t do on my iPhone.

Leo Laporte Right.

Kevin Rose I just – I don’t know.

John C. Dvorak I know: you could hang it on the wall and make it a picture frame that shows your photos.

Kevin Rose That rotates through the photos, nice.

Leo Laporte It’s only $900!

Kevin Rose And I would probably buy it because it’s an Apple device.

Leo Laporte Yeah, well did you see the Microsoft courier, Gizmodo has showed this, now I – Gizmodo does not have the greatest track record on – I don’t want to say veracity but – sometimes they say things maybe I don’t know if they are completely true. They’re saying…

Patrick Norton You’re saying you are questionably in – you’re questioning whether this is somebody’s backyard Photoshop mock-up or a genuine, real Microsoft potential product.

Leo Laporte I’d say consider the source. Gizmodo has the video, it’s – did you watch the video? This I would buy, as opposed to a 10-inch. Because first of all it’s a book, it opens, right? And it’s got both – it has got touch, but it also has stylus, so it’s kind of a hybrid thing. And that kind of make sense, that’s exactly what I would expect from Microsoft because of course they do those tablets. And the use case that they showed in the video was kind of neat. It was a women who was outside of the client, so she was sitting whatever, in a internet café. She opens the book, she drags…

Patrick Norton It’s a Filofax.

Leo Laporte Yeah, it’s a Filofax with – but electronic. And the other thing I like about it, and I think that the Apple tablet would have some of this as well, is that it is also an e-book device.

John C. Dvorak Did you notice that that what he showed in the video [indiscernible] (1:01:30) see it on this podcast necessarily, but they’re doing the two-finger stuff. Did they give them their – I thought Apple had that locked down?

Leo Laporte No, no because the Surface has the pinch and so does the Pre. A lot of devices have the – have this pinch.

John C. Dvorak What was that – what is this patent then that Apple has with the two-touch screen?

Leo Laporte I don’t know, do they…

John C. Dvorak Multi-touch or wherever they call it?

Leo Laporte I don’t know, because a lot of people are doing it and I don’t think Apple – I mean, the guy who demonstrated it at Carnegie Mellon, had – this demonstration was well before the iPhone. Remember that demo? It was not at Carnegie Mellon, it was another school.

John C. Dvorak Yes, I remember what you’re talking about.

Leo Laporte Yeah, and he – it was a TWiT, no, a TED speech and...

John C. Dvorak TED. Did you give your TED speech yet?

Leo Laporte Well, it’s TEDx, now I have to say that because Kevin like goes to real TED. I go to the franchise TED. It’s like he is going to the French Laundry or [ph] you know, Cirque (01:02:26)…

Kevin Rose I have never been to the French Laundry.

John C. Dvorak [inaudible] (1:02:27).

Leo Laporte And I am going to [ph] Mickey D’s (1:02:29). No, but it is in Dubai so that’s exciting. No, it’s October.

Kevin Rose That’s awesome!

Leo Laporte Yeah, October…

Patrick Norton You’re going to Dubai?

Leo Laporte I am going to Dubai in a couple of weeks.

Kevin Rose It’s amazing.

John C. Dvorak And when you go there, make sure Dubai stuff because it’s a shopper’s paradise.

Leo Laporte But aren’t they going – I heard that they were kind of going through a little bit of an economic...

John C. Dvorak Which just means that things will be on sale.

Leo Laporte Oh yeah…

John C. Dvorak I mean that place is like, wow!

Kevin Rose So you are giving a talk?

Leo Laporte Well, it’s like the Vegas of the – well, so there’s TEDx and there’s been a lot of – there are a lot of TEDxes, these are the franchise TEDs, so there’s, Toronto just had theirs and they are all over. Dubai – a guy e-mailed me, [ph] Giorgio, (1:03:02) said, hey, I’d like to do one in Dubai, would you come if I did one? I said, are you kidding? You’d pay my ticket, I am there. It’s kind of funny because I’m flying 26 hours for an 18-minute speech.

John C. Dvorak It’s miserable, that flight.

Leo Laporte Well, I am on Emirates. I am on Business Class in Emirates.

John C. Dvorak Oh, Emirates is fine.

Kevin Rose You are set.

Leo Laporte So it should be okay. Not first. In first class in Emirates, apparently you get a room. Like a cabin. But I am not first class, I am just…

Kevin Rose Business is all you need.

Leo Laporte Yeah. I’ll be fine. I am excited, I can’t wait. Yeah, it’s a couple of weeks. We are – [ph] Alex Lindsay (01:03:33) is going fill in all week on TWiT. This is an experiment to see to see if in fact this whole network can survive without me. And if it can’t, I am staying in Dubai.

Patrick Norton Well, have you made sure that it is actually a conference and not somebody going to hold you hostage or something?

John C. Dvorak Could be.

Leo Laporte They have a website.

John C. Dvorak Dubai is hot.

Leo Laporte It’s really hot, it’s a hundred – I have been look – watching the weather all summer. It’s like a hundred degrees every…

John C. Dvorak They close the whole country down from…

Kevin Rose You’re not going to be going outside.

John C. Dvorak Noon to 4. Nobody goes outside between noon and 4.

Leo Laporte Well, don’t they – but now, Kevin, you’ve been to TED. Haven’t you spoken at TED? I thought you’d…

Kevin Rose No, no. no, I’ve just attended.

Leo Laporte Well, I am hoping the 12 days, 6 hours and 48 minutes, I…

Kevin Rose This is a real – this is a real honor they offered you to do this.

Leo Laporte I am hugely honored. Are you kidding?

Kevin Rose To speak at TED is a big deal.

Leo Laporte Well, but it’s not…

Kevin Rose But it is. It’s still hard to go to these things, like this is…

Leo Laporte I am excited. I am hoping that this…

Kevin Rose Congrats, it is a big deal.

John C. Dvorak The trouble is they get – the problem is, that you don’t understand Kevin, is that you don’t know – Leo, he will tell you about this, but his speech is going to be about how to work the microphone so you get the right tones. It’s going to be [indiscernible] (1:04:39)

Leo Laporte Yeah, but that’s okay, right? Isn’t that allowed? You can talk about anything you want.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, [ph] tell the secrets (01:04:41)

Leo Laporte Well, all right, all right, all right, Mr. John C. Dvorak, if you were giving a TED talk, what would you do? What would your TED talk be?

John C. Dvorak What would my TED talk?

Leo Laporte Yeah.

John C. Dvorak I feel I have absolutely nothing to contribute. I would refuse the honor.

Leo Laporte No, you wouldn’t. Would you really?

John C. Dvorak I would have to dream something up, then. I mean, I have got nothing.

Leo Laporte Oh, come on.

John C. Dvorak [ph] I mean, sure when you (01:05:02) listen to the show, I am just here to [inaudible] (1:05:08) and to throw in one-liners when I have a shot at it and then see if I can crack it. And reporting in from...

Kevin Rose Could be like a retake of my old wrestling coach’s philosophy on life. Power of negative reinforcement.

John C. Dvorak Yes, but let’s move on. Let’s face reality.

Leo Laporte I’m giving a speech on Friday to the Online News Association in San Francisco, and the speech is going to – is titled – I haven’t written it yet, so I had better write it, but the speech…

John C. Dvorak Run for your lives.

Leo Laporte Yeah, really it’s bad news everywhere. No, my speech, I thought this was appropriate for the Online News Association, is “How a lifetime of failure let me to be an overnight success”.

Patrick Norton I did not realize you had had a lifetime of failure.

Leo Laporte Crickets, crickets. All right, Patrick, what would you do if you were invited to TED? What would you speak about?

Patrick Norton I don’t, A, think they would have me, and B, I think it’s kind of elitist.

John C. Dvorak That’s giving it to him, Patrick.

Patrick Norton No, no. I mean, every so often I see something amazing from it, but it’s kind of like we’re going to have the people we think are the coolest people in the world come talk to the people we think are doing the most good in the world, which is great, and I do not really fit under either of those concepts, so…

Leo Laporte Oh, I’d love to go to TED though in Long Beach.

John C. Dvorak Are you talking about TED or the Online Newspaper Association?

Leo Laporte So tell – what’s TED like, Kevin? I mean, it must be pretty cool. I would love to go to a TED, the big TED.

Kevin Rose I mean, it’s one of these things where you definitely feel like – so last year was the first year I ever went and it felt like it was, I was out of place because – you walk around and like there’s Bill Gates and there is Larry and Sergei. And they are like, you can just walk up to them, which is not like normal conferences, right?

Leo Laporte Now I’m getting scared, like I better start thinking about the speech. I hadn’t really thought of – I figure 18 minutes, I could just get up there and blab. Maybe I had better write this.

Patrick Norton So you have – wait, wait, you haven’t done your TEDx speech or you haven’t done your –

John C. Dvorak He has written this thing a million times already. Leo is over-prepared when he does these things. I’ve heard a couple of Leo’s speeches. They are actually quite outstanding.

Leo Laporte I do over-prepare. I do over-prepare. Thank you, that’s very nice John.

John C. Dvorak No, they are.

Leo Laporte But the problem – the reason I over-prepare is because I write it and then I throw it out. And then I write another one and I throw it out because I hate them all. And then I finally get to the stage and I’m confused.

Kevin Rose You need to write one of those kind of tearjerkers – some of the best TED talks are always those really sad ones –

Leo Laporte Yeah, they are.

Kevin Rose ...where people walk away and then it’s like…

Leo Laporte Oh good, all right, okay, I need this now, Kevin, so this is good. So...

Kevin Rose All right, so we need a little drama here.

Leo Laporte Pathos. What is the drama?

Patrick Norton Actually you have pathos going on in your life right now.

Leo Laporte I do?

Patrick Norton Related to anonymity in the Internet and how the Internet’s greatest strength is also its greatest downfall when used irresponsibly.

Leo Laporte It is. You know this is a big challenge I think. Did you see – have you seen We Live In Public yet?

Kevin Rose Yeah.

Leo Laporte Josh Harris – the biography of Josh Harris, who was the guy who created Pseudo and he wired his apartment, this is like in 2001 with cameras everywhere. Even in the toilet, there was a camera in the toilet.

John C. Dvorak And up though? You’re a making a motion as though it’s in the toilet. Really?

Leo Laporte Yes, in the toilet.

John C. Dvorak That’s gross.

Leo Laporte Yeah, it’s gross. And then microphones everywhere. All of which were activated by movement or sound. So basically he just walked around and everywhere he was – and then he has his girlfriend, which he calls his fake girlfriend, in there with him and they have the chat rooms. And they just – everything they do is documented and it’s weird. I think he had a nervous breakdown. But because – and he said you’ll have – if you do this, you will have a nervous breakdown. I think he told me I was going to have a nervous breakdown. What did you think of that movie, Kevin? It was pretty good I thought.

Kevin Rose Yeah, I thought it was okay. In my mind it was like, I mean the guy clearly made a lot of money in tech, he had millions and millions of dollars and then he kind of blew it all on – or quite a big chunk of it – on setting up cameras and…

Leo Laporte Well, he’s broke. He blew it all.

Patrick Norton I just don’t understand why one would do that, like I don’t know. Seemed like a waste of money to me.

Leo Laporte I almost think he was a – Josh was a performance artist, not so much of a...

Patrick Norton I was going to say, this sounds like of lot of stuff that was going on in off-off Broadway when…

Leo Laporte It was New York.

Patrick Norton …I was in college in New York City.

Leo Laporte It was New York in 1999. He took over the basement of a hotel, put bunks, like sleeping tubes in it for like – I don’t know, a lot of people, 50 people or something. Cameras everywhere. People moved in and they couldn’t come out, and they eventually got closed down by the – after, by the New York City Police after the 1999, 2000 New Year’s Eve. But boy, it just, yeah, I think he is a performance artist is what I think he is. He is very, very East Side, Lower East Side.

Patrick Norton Or now lower, lower, Lower East Side.

Leo Laporte Alphabet City, baby, yeah.

Patrick Norton No, Alphabet City is almost gentrified.

Leo Laporte Is that hip now? Where am I going to get my heroin?

Patrick Norton Not there anymore.

Leo Laporte Oh, man.

John C. Dvorak I have got – there’s another article here I want to discuss since you guys love going off-track – off the topic.

Leo Laporte Can I do – wait a minute. Okay, hold on, I am going to do an ad, I got one more ad and then…

John C. Dvorak This is interesting.

Leo Laporte Yes, that’s why you should stay tuned.

John C. Dvorak No, no, what I’m saying it’s interesting that this is the second time I tried to cue in a story and you came up with this ad thing.

Leo Laporte Because – this ad thing. I’ll never understand – what is this ad thing you do?

John C. Dvorak How does that work.

Leo Laporte What is that? Do people pay for those? What exactly is an ad? Well my friends without the ads there would be no TWiT. You know how expensive it is to do the show. It costs me several dollars an hour. That’s why we ask our fine sponsors, people like to defray the costs with small advertisements. And you know these are all products I use and love. So I don’t mind doing it. I don’t think of it as an ad. I think of it as recommending something I enjoy. Audible – to be honest, don’t tell him this. I probably would do this for free. They saved my life driving to TechTV, two hours, three hours a day in the car.

Patrick Norton Flying to Dubai.

Leo Laporte Flying to Dubai, I’m stocking up. In fact I’ll show you my library because I actually…

Kevin Rose Bring the battery booster for your iPod.

Leo Laporte Yes, I do. I have the fast track, and I think it’s going to get me all the way – wait a minute, no I’m on…

John C. Dvorak You have power outlets in business class.

Leo Laporte I can plug in everything. So Lucifer’s Hammer, Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle, that’s about 30 hours. Got the new Chris Anderson free, that’s free by the way on Audible. Kind of make sense. [Ph] Annie Anarko (1:11:31) recommended the book about the Golden Age of Movies you know the 70s with Easy Rider and Raging Bull called Easy Riders, Raging Bulls: The History of Hollywood in the 70s. The Battle for America 2008 – I’m going to listen all of these on the plane I’m actually kind of excited. The Innovator's Dilemma, which is I’ve been meaning to read for years. Ben Mezrich’s book about Facebook, The Accidental Billionaires, by the way they are going to start filming that. That’s pretty exciting Aaron Sorkin wrote the screenplay. Who’s directing it – they got a great director, I can’t remember who it is. It’s Kevin Spacey’s company Trigger Street is producing it. I’m excited about this, The Accidental Billionaires, I know Mark Zuckerberg is not excited about this but so I’m going to listen to this.

This is the story of Facebook by Ben Mezrich, he is guy who wrote 21, that great book about – this would be a good Audible pick, I’ll tell you what, let’s make this our Audible pick. You can go there and get this for free, go to Listen to the books I’m listening on the way Dubai. You get two books when you sign up for the Platinum account. Platinum account is two books a month, first two books are free and by the way you get to keep those books even if you decide not to stick around. I know you will, Audible is 60,000 books, this is library – the best library of audio entertainment in the world.

Some of the best books ever read by the best performers, you’re just going to love it; Try it right now, your first two books are free, they are on us; they’ll save your life if you are at the gym, driving in the car, doing house work, there’s just nothing better than listening on Audible, We thank them so much for their support of this WEEK in TECH.

Now John C. Dvorak has an actually interesting story to tell us.

John C. Dvorak I don’t remember. No.

Leo Laporte Oh! Come on.

John C. Dvorak Okay, here we go, ready.

Leo Laporte Yes.

John C. Dvorak Because, since Kevin is here, I think he can maybe shed some light on this. There was a number of studies that came out that show that people go on social networks – really are on social networks only because they want it social. They don’t want to have stuff sold to them, meanwhile this Wall Street Journal article comes out saying Twitter users twice is as receptive to advertising; this is bull.

Leo Laporte You know, well, you know, why, I will tell you it’s not bull; I bet it’s not bull, and of course you want to ask Kevin, so I’ll let Kevin talk. But I think it’s not bull because people on Twitter don’t expect that. So they get so they get suckered by the ads.

John C. Dvorak Oh! That’s bull.

Leo Laporte What do you think, Kevin?

Kevin Rose I don’t know. I think that people on Twitter – you would be interesting to see what kind of – what their main demo is and I think that Twitter has been able to capture a lot of people who have never blogged before, a lot of – kind of Middle America, they don’t know how to use computers, I have some friends of mine that aren’t into the whole tech scene, right, and they are like well, Twitter does make sense for me because it is this simple little box and I just filled it in and that’s that’s my website now. They even call it their website which is weird. But…

Leo Laporte Ooh, that is weird.

Kevin Rose You know, it’s like – can you imagine those people just getting online for the first time and using the service and then seeing an ad beam, like, oh! I click on that. Isn’t it true that like more and newbie people to the Internet click more ads and more savvy – tech savvy people.

John C. Dvorak There are is couple of flaws in this – what you just said. One I don’t think Twitter is populated by that many newbies, most people will have some experience online before they even find Twitter or feel that it’s useful, A and then B I have studied this because everybody – everybody in their system now uses which tracks clicks and click throughs when they want to shrink a URL and so you always – so you can put some sales pitch into your Twitter feed like, this is the most amazing, unbelievable video I’ve ever seen you know, and then you give it a little link and then you can see how many people clicked on it and there is no substantial number, I mean there are some people would do but it’s not like something that’s outrageous. The only – the most, the most click throughs I’ve ever gotten with my 56,000 users which is a good group to study is one that said that we’re going to talk to you about the Leo going off on Michael Arrington; everybody seemed to really liked it, because that wasn’t about anything except social, that was pure social because Arrington is just, they are both in the social network, and I think it’s still social networks are good for one thing, they are good for social networking I think this is a bogus report.

Kevin Rose Well I didn’t read the reports. So what are they talking about exactly and how do they – what was the study all about?

Leo Laporte The Internet report based on the survey of 9,200 internet users found Twitter users are twice as likely, now this is what it is, and I think this is true, twice as likely to review or rate products online. That makes sense, right, that’s the currency of Twitter. I just use the Fit Pit, this is pretty cool. Visit company profiles or click on advertising or sponsors, they say 20% of Twitter users are likely to click on advertisers and sponsors versus 9% who belong to traditional social networking sites.

Kevin Rose Are they counting spambots as advertisers?

Leo Laporte Because I know, there are no Twitter ads right. Well I guess there kind of are, there are those links on the right.

Patrick Norton Yes, that’s what I thought you were first talking about…

Leo Laporte This is compared to…

John C. Dvorak I’m not buying this.

Leo Laporte This is compared to MySpace and Facebook. I mean it’s good news for Twitter. Now it’s interesting this comes out right when they are getting $100 million and some more money and that getting valued at a billion dollars.

Kevin Rose You know, John I can almost buy into it a simple because there is so little ad activity on Twitter. Maybe people don’t – I mean like people didn’t really start having violent reaction to ads until ads started getting really obnoxious on a lot of the interfaces when the eye-blasters and the other stuff came in so maybe it’s because they are reacting so mildly to it because they just haven’t seen any advertising activity, or maybe they don’t realize that they are not even seeing any advertising activity.

John C. Dvorak Well, until I see raw numbers or actual sales figures somebody who’s made Twitter a channel let’s say it for filling stuff I’m very skeptical of this.

Leo Laporte Twitter does drive a lot of traffic, right?

Patrick Norton Well I will say one thing.

Leo Laporte Right?

Patrick Norton I do have one point of data that was pretty interesting to us at Digg is we have this feed called Digg 2000 it’s like Digg_2000 on Twitter, and it’s only stories that have 2,000 or more Diggs and we found that the users that come from that feed consume more pages per visit, not ad clicks but pages per visit than other people just coming in from search or from other ways of finding the story.

Leo Laporte But that’s a really quality feed, I mean if it’s Dugg 2,000 times.

Patrick Norton Right, but not just that one page [indiscernible] (1:18:18) come in...

Kevin Rose As a subscriber to that feed I can say it’s all over the map, so it’s…

Patrick Norton But once they come into Digg, they go several pages deep versus like if someone comes in from a Google search, it’s typically bouncing off and then going into something else.

Leo Laporte Wow! This Digg_2000 has almost a million followers; holy cow! That number just stagger me. They are kind of, I mean, it’s a…

John C. Dvorak What do you guys track – let’s say you post something right now in Digg_2000 and you have a million followers, what number of people would generally [indiscernible] (1:18:55)...

Leo Laporte What percent?

Patrick Norton As far as out those million people?

Leo Laporte How many links do you get there, yes?

John C. Dvorak And how many click-throughs?

Patrick Norton Oh! Clicks, I don’t know, I have to go check with…

John C. Dvorak Well, I mean, just like this car – saw this car parked outside my apartment today. Pic – it’s got a picture and then it’s got a link. You should able to count those links.

Patrick Norton Yes, [indiscernible] (1:19:12).

Leo Laporte I’m sure he knows, but it is – yes.

Patrick Norton I’m thinking somewhere on the 20, 30, 40,000 range that …

Leo Laporte Wow! Holy cow!

Patrick Norton It depends on…

Leo Laporte How did you get a million, this must’ve be on the suggested users list, right?

Patrick Norton Yes, it was on there for a while.

Leo Laporte It’s the only ad I’ve ever seen [inaudible] (1:19:27) anybody get to a million. Everybody but me, I don’t care, that’s fine.

John C. Dvorak Yes.

Leo Laporte No, I don’t.

John C. Dvorak I do.

Leo Laporte I don’t want to be a club [indiscernible] (1:19:33).

John C. Dvorak And I care for you, Leo. I think you got ripped off.

Leo Laporte Oh! You’re just trying to get me going, you are, I know you are.

John C. Dvorak No, no, it’s just a fact. I brought this up last time I was on the show and I still believe it’s true. As you have a show called TWiT, and there is lawyers over there at Twitter probably worried sick that they [indiscernible] (1:19:49)…

Leo Laporte You know there is an interesting – there was an interesting I think Dave Winer did this; he took the TwitterCounter graph of Michael Arrington’s followers. And he was on the suggested users list right up to the point where he published those confidential Twitter documents. And he never showed up in the SUL again. And the graph of his followers is very, very steep and then as soon as he’s off the SUL, it flattens right out.

So what it does show – there is two things you get from that. One, that SUL makes a huge difference to the number of followers. That makes sense. And two, that Twitter can use this whether they do intentionally or not, but can use this to manipulate coverage because as soon as Arrington does something that they don’t like; well bye, bye, you are no longer on the SUL and your following numbers just plateau.

John C. Dvorak There you have it. Now, I am not going to use the word ‘corruption’.

Leo Laporte That’s – well Dave Winer did.

Kevin Rose I don’t know. So I am not on the user list any more. I got removed a while back.

Leo Laporte Oh really? Do you know why?

Kevin Rose Yeah absolutely. They sent me an e-mail, and they’re like ‘hey, we rotate through people that we would think are interesting people for others to follow and you’ve been on there for a while and we’re going to yank you off’. And they did it to a bunch of different people and I was like so be it. That’s just what happens.

They are trying to basically create a list that when you come to Twitter for the first time and you sign up, hopefully you’ll be able to through that list and find some people that you recognize and you might want to follow. And so they are [indiscernible] (01:21:21)…

Leo Laporte So let me just show you…

John C. Dvorak

There’s some junk and garbage on that list.

Leo Laporte Let me just show you the graph of how it was when you were on the SUL and what happened when you got off the SUL.

Kevin Rose Yeah absolutely.

Leo Laporte It’s going up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up – I could tell you, in fact Kevin I could tell the date that you got taken off the SUL was August 20th and boom.

Kevin Rose Yeah totally. I mean it – there’s – that’s just the nature of the list. I mean it brings in so many people that are coming to sign up for new Twitter accounts today.

Leo Laporte So nobody is – I mean we don’t know if it’s misused or not. It is just clear that it has a lot of power.

Patrick Norton Well, you are also assuming any of those peoples are still online, that they actually read the feed, and what percentage of readers actually pay attention or click through.

Leo Laporte Well I do notice – yeah, I do know it’s going down slowly and I presume that there is a certain amount of attrition because a lot of those SUL followers are in fact not committed Twitter users. They got their – because Oprah was there and then they fall off.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, but wouldn’t they – but they wouldn’t quit. Kevin wouldn’t lose – generally wouldn’t lose anybody unless they bumped them from this –

Kevin Rose Well you lose people a couple of different ways I think. One, they delete spammers from time to time, right. So some of those accounts are going to be spam and you are going to lose some people. The other is, people have no idea who you are, and they’ll be like ‘ I don’t even even remember signing up for you’ –

Leo Laporte Yeah, ‘why I am following him?’ – because it is kind of automatic.

Kevin Rose Yeah. And the third thing is every time I Tweet out like pro-Brett Favre stuff, I get a lot of people unfollowing me. It actually –

John C. Dvorak Well there’s a reason for that. I think everyone should bail out on you now.

Leo Laporte So here is my graph.

John C. Dvorak You’re from the San Francisco area for God’s sake.

Leo Laporte Here is my graph and because I am not on the SUL it’s very steady always, always. You can see where they drop some spammers because I took a couple – a thousand people off there. But it’s a pretty predictable linear curve compared to what happens with the SUL. I don’t know what to make of that. But it does open up the potential for corruption because you could say, ‘Hey, I don’t like your coverage Mike Arrington, I am taking you off the SUL’.

Patrick Norton But you guys are acting like that’s going to actually so…

Leo Laporte It’s valuable. Don’t say it is not valuable to say I have a million followers. It shows up in The New York Times. Whenever an article is written about somebody, that is one of the numbers, if they have a large number, that will come up.

Kevin Rose This is actually…

Patrick Norton Having directly seen the results of some of the [inaudible] (01:23:37) people with a million followers…

Leo Laporte No, no, I understand it’s – you and I know it’s worthless but the mainstream media doesn’t and normal people don’t.

Kevin Rose But this is actually part – sorry Pat, go ahead.

Patrick Norton I was going to say it is like – it’s not like this is going to be quieting Arrington and maybe punishing Arrington you know on – from Twitter’s viewpoint.

Leo Laporte I think it is punishing Arrington.

Patrick Norton But it’s not like it’s silencing Arrington’s voice. It’s not Arrington doesn’t have another voice.

Leo Laporte Well it could. It could have a chilling effect.

Patrick Norton So everybody else is going to stop reading Arrington’s articles on TechCrunch and…

Leo Laporte No, no, no, no. If you are a journalist and you are thinking of saying something bad about Twitter and you are on the suggested users list, you might think twice depending on what you see the value SUL as.

Patrick Norton Then you shouldn’t be a journalist.

Leo Laporte Well I agree with you. You are absolutely right.

Patrick Norton I mean you should sack up. You should buy a pair of ovaries and get a clue.

Leo Laporte Yeah, no you’re absolutely right.

Patrick Norton You know what mean, it’s like Oprah Winfrey has got two million like – over like 2.25 million followers and updates regularly. I mean the people that are there are probably legitimate fans.

Kevin Rose This is –

Patrick Norton Sorry, Kevin.

Kevin Rose This is actually part of the talk that I am going to be giving at FOWA next week, but it’s about features that are created on websites that stroke the ego and features that kind of tend to blow up a site. And one of the – the big thing for Twitter was the follower count because celebrities basically get on Twitter, they look at that count as a means of social currency. The more the better. And they’re basically – Twitter has, I don’t think they plan to do this, but they have turned every celebrity into a spokesperson for them.

Leo Laporte Absolutely and did it work…

Kevin Rose Millions and millions and millions of dollars of free, I mean I just saw Ben Stiller…

Leo Laporte Kevin, you and I did it.

Kevin Rose I know, we all did it.

Leo Laporte You and I had that horse race and that…

Kevin Rose Exactly.

Leo Laporte I mean that’s what did it.

Kevin Rose Yeah, and it’s happening. I mean look at what's happened with all these celebrities now they are creating videos, they are going out there in the press, they are on Oprah. I mean you name it, it’s just like – it’s – I have never seen this happen before where celebrities will just go out there and freely promote and plug something. It’s insane.

Leo Laporte It’s brilliant.

Patrick Norton They are excited about it and it’s actually – what’s so amazing about it is it is not somebody pretending to have a website they built when it’s built by some little cadre of people from their agent’s office.

Leo Laporte That’s true.

Patrick Norton This is actually like Shaq, sitting in a bar somewhere or a restaurant or whatever Shaq Tweets from, or following Tony Hawk. I think it’s a hoot to follow Tony Hawk.

Kevin Rose One of the – one of the other things – one of the other points real quick that I wanted to make is that, one of the things I think is – of first, is that I believe that in some ways spam actually helps Twitter because what it does is it increases follower counts on a lot of these smaller accounts and it gives people a perception of audience. Right? So someone will come in and say, oh I have 50 people following me. Maybe 25 of those accounts are fake, right. But they believe there is an audience there. And so they engage with the product more. It is just a really weird ecosystem.

Leo Laporte Do you – are you going to talk in your talk about things like that that are brilliant hacks in effect, social engineering versus features that you add to a site that add genuine value to the site.

Kevin Rose Well I think that’s the next step for Twitter. I think that Twitter – it’s not just going be the raw number of followers but it’s going to be how influential that person is. And looking at other factors in order to determine that. And that’s some of the stuff I’m playing around with on We Follow. We have a bunch of people tagging themselves under certain key words and we are starting to look at how many people inside of certain tags are being followed by other tastemakers inside of that tag.

So if Shaq were to tweet something out about Nike, I would instantly know how many people that are fans of Nike are following Shaq and how important is that. It’s fun times.

Leo Laporte No, I liken it to old media where you could for instance on a show like The Screen Savers, you could boast ratings by having more low-cut tops on the girls or you could boast ratings by putting more content in.

Kevin Rose Right.

Leo Laporte It is two very different approaches. One is kind of shallow and manipulative and one is kind of more genuine but…

John C. Dvorak So – never mind.

Kevin Rose There was a point where we had that balance though, right?

Leo Laporte Don’t do that. There is a balance. I don’t know. I am one of those – look at what we do on TWiT. This is not exactly a sexy production. We try to make it of value, right?

Kevin Rose But there was a time I remember when The Screen Savers and, love him or hate him, when Paul Block, our executive producer came on and threw Morgan Webb up there in a cute little [ph] Windows Air (01:28:07), shirt and she was delivering awesome content. She is an amazingly brilliant and smart woman...

Leo Laporte So you’re saying do both?

Kevin Rose ...and she is also very attractive. Yeah.

Leo Laporte So you are saying do both?

Kevin Rose It worked for our fans, you know.

Leo Laporte I guess that’s true. You are not – as long as you are not slighting the content, I guess.

Kevin Rose Right.

Leo Laporte I just – you know, I am allergic to manipulation and I hate it when [indiscernible] (01:28:26)…

Patrick Norton You are so not allergic to manipulation.

Leo Laporte Maybe because I – maybe because I am so susceptible to manipulation.

Patrick Norton Yes, you may despise and hate manipulation.

Leo Laporte Well that’s what I am saying, I don’t like it. I don’t – because I am a sucker for it.

Patrick Norton Immune – suggests that it has no impact on you.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I probably wouldn’t hate it so much if I were immune to it. So seeing as I am not immune to it, it bugs me.

John C. Dvorak The chat-room went nuts with that one Leo. “That is BS Leo”, says [indiscernible] (01:28:54).

Leo Laporte That I don’t like manipulation?

John C. Dvorak No, that you are immune to it.

Leo Laporte No, that’s what I said, I am not. Patrick nailed me on that one. I never pretended I was immune to it but I am – but it bugs me. I always feel like you should try to give – I don’t know, I think it – maybe it’s a – more long term successful if you give value.

Kevin Rose I remember when working at TechTV, we all had these little TVs in our cube, remember that? So we could be sitting there and preparing for that day’s show, but yet they’d rerun The Screen Savers from the day before, right? So we would be sitting there and The Screen Savers would be running on and of course you watch your own segments because you were like okay how did I look, did I do okay, did I get the points across, and then Morgan would come up on the screen and do her Windows Tip, and I knew the Windows Tip but yet I would still turn and watch Morgan on the screen, right?

Leo Laporte You watched it!

Kevin Rose Exactly.

Leo Laporte That’s what I hate. I don’t like it that I can be manipulated like that. Maybe that’s it. Real quickly –

John C. Dvorak How come you don’t watch FOX News, Leo?

Leo Laporte I do, I have it on right now. And let me tell you something about FOX News –

John C. Dvorak That’s right, you had it on last time when I was there.

Leo Laporte Because on the weekends, MS –

John C. Dvorak [indiscernible] (01:29:58).

Leo Laporte Well, it’s funny that you should say that because I just – I don’t know, I never noticed that before. They have the cutest anchors. It’s all cute anchors. They are all perky blonde cute anchors on there, and commentators. I never noticed that before.

John C. Dvorak That’s not true, there’s a few brunettes.

Leo Laporte Okay. Well I don’t know. The reason is because I needed to have a news channel on and MSNBC does Prison Break out all weekend long. It’s most revolting – talking about god awful programming. And CNN is like, I don’t know what they are doing there, they’re re-run heaven. Larry King. So I have to – I watch him at Fox because if something, because God forbid something horrible should happen in the middle of the show, I want to know it. And I want to be [indiscernible] (1:30:39).

John C. Dvorak I thought it was explaining why you are bouncing on that on that ball constantly.

Leo Laporte That’s just to keep me pumped. I have hooked it up to my pump. Nintendo slashes Wii price by $50, like they are not already number one.

John C. Dvorak Yay.

Leo Laporte MMS in your iPhone, exciting? Welcome to 1999.

Patrick Norton Yes, because finally people can send me images and movies where I won’t to have to like cut and paste the password on my Mac.

Kevin Rose Yah, I hated that.

Leo Laporte Yeah, that’s a good point, that’s a good point. Google books settlement on the rocks again. The Department of Justice weighed in and Google and the judge said, all right, back to the table we got to figure out a better settlement. So the hearing is put off. Windows 7 due earlier because of couple of companies might just push PCs out with Windows 7.

Kevin Rose Well, they haven’t changed the release day for Windows 7.

Leo Laporte October 22nd.

Kevin Rose There are kinds of some hacks you can do to get access to Windows 7 earlier on a new system.

Leo Laporte Some small custom PC makers according to Crave are claiming they will start shipping systems as early as October 13th with Windows 7 on it.

Kevin Rose I had something I wanted talk about very important, Leo, pertains to all of us.

Leo Laporte Yes. Yes.

Kevin Rose I Tweeted out last week a link to an old Screensaver segment.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Kevin Rose G4 Media stepped in and took it down off of YouTube.

Leo Laporte What?

Patrick Norton Yup.

Kevin Rose Why would they do that?

Patrick Norton Because they own the rights to it and they want the traffic to go to the website.

Kevin Rose This concerns me though because it’s really good – there’s lot of tutorials and how-tos that got snipped up and put up on YouTube and they exist out there. And it worries me that they are taking down good quality content for no apparent reason at all. It says ‘Removed from G4 Media’ after…

Patrick Norton They are – wait, wait, it was G4’s YouTube account?

Leo Laporte No, no.

Patrick Norton Oh, removed at the request of G4 Media?

Kevin Rose Exactly.

Leo Laporte There have been screensavers clips on YouTube for five years just sitting there, but now they’re starting to do DMCA takedowns.

Kevin Rose Well, some of the best moments of the show too, which is too bad.

Leo Laporte What was the bit that you put up there?

Kevin Rose Mine was about hacking a toothbrush into – to make it a sonic care toothbrush. So I took like $8 toothbrush and made it a really expensive one that…

Leo Laporte So, it was your segment?

Kevin Rose Yeah, it was my segment, yeah.

Patrick Norton You know what, I bet it was. I bet you linking to it generated enough traffic that it raised awareness at G4 and they had it pulled.

Leo Laporte All right, I have another possible scenario.

John C. Dvorak Look, can I throw in before you get the real answer, Leo?

Leo Laporte Yup.

John C. Dvorak It’s because they were afraid that their numbers might go up and they didn’t…

Leo Laporte They were afraid they would get more hits on Kevin Rose’s five-year-old toothbrush segment than on current programming on G4. I think you’re exactly right. I think that’s exactly right. No…

Patrick Norton I doubt that.

Leo Laporte Okay, this is my theory. I got a call – I think I have told you guys this. I got a call from people at G4 about three months ago. They said we have been over the past three years convert – we have every show ever done, high-quality tapes or whatever hard drives I don’t know what. Every show ever done on TechTV from 1998 – I know you don’t believe this, John. From 1998 to 2004, we have for the last few years been digitizing every one of these. We would like to know if you’re okay with it, if we put up a website that is TechTV retro that has everything you ever did on it. And I’d say all right with it. I would sing it to the heavens.

Kevin Rose And sell DVDs with your face on the outside of it…

Leo Laporte Well, they can. They have the right to do that, right? Because we all signed that paper that said, ‘all media now or future, forever...’

John C. Dvorak I didn’t sign that.

Leo Laporte You didn’t sign that?

Patrick Norton I didn’t, either.

John C. Dvorak I had a separate cover.

Patrick Norton I have never signed away the rights to my image.

Leo Laporte You didn’t have a personal services contract?

Patrick Norton I never had a contract, Leo.

Leo Laporte Oh, you are so smart.

Patrick Norton Who’s saying they’re going to be – who’s saying there’s going to be repackaging, reselling these G4?

Leo Laporte No, they did not say to me that they are repackaging them, they said they would be making a free website where people could go see high-quality digitized copies of all the stuff we ever did.

Patrick Norton Is this G4 or someone who…

Leo Laporte This is G4. This is G4. They – this was the people on the Internet division there. They said, hey, we’re real big fans. We’ve always wanted to get this back on the air. We have been kind of quietly digitizing everything.

Kevin Rose Yeah. But I mean this is going to cost them just…

Leo Laporte Well that’s what I said.

Kevin Rose …tons of money and bandwidth charges and – they have to monetize it somehow, right.

Patrick Norton They have to put pre-roll, they’ll have to put pre-rolls on and [indiscernible] (1:35:18).

Leo Laporte They will monetize. Of course. They’re a business, they’re going to monetize it. I don’t mind that. But, okay, so if they are going to do that, I could see maybe why they’d started issuing takedowns on YouTube. Maybe – I always think it’s dumb to take down anything anywhere. Just put it out there and it promotes you that you’ve got the high quality version back at the ranch.

Kevin Rose Yeah, I mean, or they could just upload them all to YouTube and call it a day, right? [Indiscernible] (1:35:45).

Leo Laporte Well G4, if you’re listening, what’s the deal? I hope…

Patrick Norton Screw you G4!

Leo Laporte No, no. I am not saying screw you. I said that’s great, I’d love to see you do that. Please do that. You would have no – you would have nothing – no issue from me. Because I don’t – unlike obviously G4 Media, I don’t feel like those things should be kept back. They should be out there. Don’t you all agree?

Patrick Norton I agree with that.

Leo Laporte You wouldn’t feel bad, Patrick, if all those great shows or…

Patrick Norton I would love to see that out there, I just don’t particularly want to see my image on the cover of a DVD without my permission, that’s all. But I would love to see the video posted online, man.

Leo Laporte They did it anyway, remember? Aren’t there a bunch of DVDs with cut downs of you showing how to do [indiscernible] (1:36:33).

John C. Dvorak It’s an easy lawsuit for Patrick. Patrick, you actually do want to see your image on the DVD.

Kevin Rose Yeah, that’s an easy half million in your bank account, Pat. That’s cool.

Patrick Norton All right. Well, can you guys can give me the name of a good lawyer, let’s get this ball rolling.

Leo Laporte Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for being here. It’s always fun to get the old gang back together again. Patrick Norton is on Tekzilla HD Nation. HD Nation is a new show with Robert Heron. We asked Robert to come with us, I think he was unavailable. I want to get Robert on too, but that’s a great show and you must all watch it. It’s at Revision3 or just go to Beautiful. I am so jealous, Veronica Belmont.

Patrick Norton Smart too.

Leo Laporte Well, smart number one. Just the greatest, just really fantastic. Kevin Rose is the Digg guy and of course Diggnation is still the best, the best and best traveled tech show on the network.

Kevin Rose We do travel a lot.

Leo Laporte And you, so when’s your next on the road for Diggnation?

Kevin Rose I don’t know when the next one is.

Leo Laporte Show up in a limousine and they take you to the airport and you arrive and you say where are we, okay, hello Cleveland.

Kevin Rose That would be awesome. That is not the case.

Leo Laporte Our best, the best thing we ever did Patrick, St. Louis.

Patrick Norton That was epic.

Leo Laporte Or Toms River, New Jersey, that was pretty good too.

Patrick Norton Toms River, New Jersey was fun. It’s very close to my folks’ hometown or my home town. But St. Louis, all those people out in 13 degree weather, that was just incredible.

Leo Laporte We kept signing until they came and they took the tent that was over us away, they took the stage you’re sitting on away, they took the table we were – and we continued to sign, it was just us and two chairs in the parking lot till every single person had an autograph. And that was it, that was the peak of my career.

Patrick Norton Glad I could be a part of it.

Leo Laporte John C. Dvorak is at channeldvorak and someday we will – he will peak, but not yet.

John C. Dvorak And that’ll be what?

Leo Laporte I don’t know, the peak of your career has not happened yet. Am I wrong? Is it all downhill?

Patrick Norton I think he hung up on you.

Leo Laporte He is gone.

Patrick Norton It’s an old cell phone, I think [indiscernible] (1:39:06).

Leo Laporte Okay. You can watch this do this thing live. Watch us do this thing live. Every Sunday at 3 pm Pacific, 6 pm Eastern, that’s 22:00 UTC and that's at, we stream it out to the world and we’re subscribed to the show in iTunes. Get your very own copy suitable for framing absolutely free.

Thank you everybody. We appreciate your time. We’ll see you next time. Another TWiT is in the can.

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