TWiT 217/Transcript

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Episode 217


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This is TWiT, this WEEK in TECH, Episode 217 for October 19, 2009: The A.I. Spy Club.

this WEEK in TECH is brought to you by Sign up for the Platinum plan and get two free books. Go to, and follow Audible on Twitter, user ID audible_com; and by, picture yourself on a phonecall sharing and explaining something visual with GoToMeeting. For your free 30-day trial, visit

In studio, with me a huge massive crowd. We’ve never had so many people in studio, starting with Mr. Jim Louderback.

Leo Laporte I’ve turned into Roger Daltrey. Jim Louderback, Jimmy. Hey Jim good to see you from Revision3. What is your title, are you CEO?

Jim Louderback Yes, CEO.

David Spark Still the CEO?

Jim Louderback I know, I know.

Leo Laporte That’s cold.

Jim Louderback For more than two years I have kind of pulled the wool over their eyes, at least so far.

Leo Laporte Still the CEO. David Spark is here, former PR flack. But now…

David Spark No, never PR flack.

Leo Laporte Rehabilitated. I am so sorry. So, David’s here because I have to make an apology. I have to make amends because last week we were talking and then we were talking…

David Spark Two weeks ago.

Leo Laporte Two weeks ago we were talking about your great article. Was it on Mashable?

David Spark Mashable

Leo Laporte About ways people are monetizing. I think John and I were talking about it.

David Spark All right. And thank you, John, for giving me props on the article.

John C. Dvorak You are welcome.

Leo Laporte He called it. What do you say, he called to say Mashies?

David Spark Yeah. I remember he was like “Mash, Musha, Masha, Mashies” I couldn’t believe it. Put it all together.

Leo Laporte Who knows that?

David Spark Weren’t you moments ago saying that he is a pro when it comes to broadcasting.

Leo Laporte He is absolute – look, let me tell you something. He knew it was Mashable. He knows exactly what is going on.

John C. Dvorak Mashed potatoes.

Leo Laporte, also Great to have you. He is wearing the Akron nerds’ sweatshirt. That’s good.

John C. Dvorak The Akron Aeros.

Leo Laporte Aeros?

David Spark It does look like nerds from this.

Leo Laporte From this.

David Spark You know what I think? Complain to Skype, John.

Leo Laporte No. I don’t think it’s a Skype issue. I think it actually is a poor logo, that’s what it is.

Baratunde Thurston I think it’s that hot purple issue.

Leo Laporte Wait a minute. That voice ladies and gentlemen, you might recognize that voice, is the great Baratunde Thurston, who is joining us in studio for the very first time. Great to have you.

Baratunde Thurston Great to be here, Leo.

Leo Laporte Now, let me see if I can get all the credits right. You see him on the Science Channel.

Baratunde Thurston Yup.

Leo Laporte With the show, it’s called…

Baratunde Thurston Popular Science’s Future Of.

Leo Laporte Future, it’s about the future.

Baratunde Thurston Mondays at nine. Science.

Leo Laporte He is also the web and politics editor from The Onion. And a standup comic who appears tonight, at the Punch Line in San Francisco but normally every week in New York City at the…

Baratunde Thurston The Sage Theater.

Leo Laporte The Sage Theater in beautiful Times Square, that’s right? Did I get it all?

Baratunde Thurston I am the co-founder of Jack and Jill Politics.

Leo Laporte I don’t know that. Is that a site?

Baratunde Thurston A political blog.

Leo Laporte I love that.

Baratunde Thurston Pimp that too.

Leo Laporte I love that, why not? Did I say everybody’s name? I think everybody is here now. And we also have some audience members who are just here for fun, adding a little pulchritude to the ensemble. And let’s talk tech starting with John. I want to start with this story you just mentioned right before we began. That face that everyone sees when they sleep.

John C. Dvorak By the way my wife who has vivid dreams and kind of can go and have a dream and then remember most of it. She said she has never seen this face “A” and she went into her dream and asked everybody in the dream if they had ever seen this face. And then nobody – everybody said no, it’s bogus. This whole thing is made up by somebody or other – it’s bull.

Leo Laporte So the story is there’s some guy, he is going to his therapist’s office, right. And there is a drawing on the desk. Is that how it happened?

John C. Dvorak Yes, something like that. Apparently there’s somebody drew this face and this other guy said, well I’ve seen that face. Then this guy looked into it and apparently these other people have seen this face too. So a lot of people are having a dream with this face in it, which looks a lot like David Spark I might add. And…

Leo Laporte It looks like actually, it looks like one of those…

David Spark It does not look like me.

Leo Laporte It looks like one of those identikit faces. Oh Paul Schaefer a little bit.

David Spark Wow!

David Spark Looks like Paul Shear. Mitch Fatel.

Leo Laporte But I am asking you.

John C. Dvorak It’s universal. It’s like a face that’s really nondescript, except for the eyebrows.

Leo Laporte He’s got big bushy eyebrows.

David Spark Narrow lips that’s kind of…

Leo Laporte Narrow top lip with kind of a fat lower lip.

David Spark You know what it looks to me, it looks like one of those Wooly Willy, magnetic drawings.

Leo Laporte It does. That’s what it is. People are just remembering their childhood with the Wooly Willy.

David Spark You could just move the eyebrows down to the moustache and leave it.

Baratunde Thurston He could spare some hair down there.

Leo Laporte Let me, now everybody is saying it’s a hoax. Why, of course it’s a – what do you think I was proposing that this was actually true?

John C. Dvorak It’s a hoax. What a discovery!

Leo Laporte Oh my goodness. And you know what; there was nobody in the balloon.

Baratunde Thurston I am shocked to discover gambling going on.

Leo Laporte Let me guess though that Baratunde…

John C. Dvorak Some lawyers are crooked.

Leo Laporte What? I am guessing tonight, Baratunde, there will be a little talk about Falcon the balloon boy.

Baratunde Thurston You know, here’s my thing with the balloon boy. I successfully avoided knowing what that story was about for four days.

Leo Laporte Me too.

Baratunde Thurston I saw that hash tag. I was like; I will not click this.

Leo Laporte I will not click this.

Baratunde Thurston Don’t send me links. And I remained willfully and intelligently ignorant about this story.

Leo Laporte Aren’t you brilliant?

David Spark The only reason I knew about balloon boy is because I happened to be attending the Real-Time Web Summit, and we were all talking about…

Leo Laporte Balloon boy, balloon boy.

David Spark Let’s see what’s the latest thing that’s going on right now. And it was all balloon boy, nonsense.

Baratunde Thurston And I was sick; I was supposed to be there. And I was laid up in my hotel room. I am not clicking.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Good for you, good you avoided the balloon boy, contagion. I have to say that this was an example of I think the online world doing a much better job than mainstream media of this. Almost immediately I saw a post saying; “well I’ve calculated the capacity, carrying capacity of the mylar balloon. Given the amount of the square footage in the helium lift capacity, that balloon could only hold 30 pounds. It’s absolutely no way there’s a child in there. Any idiot would know that.”

Baratunde Thurston I love the internet.

Jim Louderback And l love how you do a colossal impression of everybody that posts online.

Leo Laporte Everybody sounds like that.

Baratunde Thurston That’s how all nerds sound. The universal nerd voiceover.

Leo Laporte The neck-beard voice.

Baratunde Thurston You know why I could do that because they had a video of these people to come and visit our offices.

Leo Laporte Now it’s Jerry Lewis.

Baratunde Thurston It is turning into Jerry Lewis.

Leo Laporte I like that though. It’s good, it’s a good Jerry Lewis.

John C. Dvorak He was talking Professor Frink.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Professor Frink, exactly. All right. We’ve covered the two biggest stories of the week and neither of them had anything to do with tech. maybe we can just move on.

David Spark Balloons are very high-tech for that matter.

Leo Laporte Balloons are? Yeah mylar, it was mylar. That’s shiny.

Jim Louderback It takes a lot of technology to make a helium balloon that can lift a 30 pound boy.

Baratunde Thurston A Real boy. I want to be a real boy, some day.

David Spark Well it’s a reverse of the boy getting stuck in a well.

Baratunde Thurston That was baby Jessica. She is the best child suffering victim of all times.

David Spark Really?

Leo Laporte Oh my god. Cause she got hours, days.

Baratunde Thurston Days of coverage. And a well. Who doesn’t – no one has a well but we are all compelled by this idea of child in a well - it is beautiful.

Baratunde Thurston No kids have fallen in wells.

Leo Laporte In fact that became the kind of the canonical child lost story. Anytime they, on The Simpsons, they want to mock TV news reporters, they have them looking down a well.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah, it’s great.

Leo Laporte Just kind of like thing you do.

Baratunde Thurston Although you know the mash-up of the balloon and the girl down the well could have just ended that much more quickly.

David Spark That would have been awesome.

David Spark Send the balloon down the well and lift the boy – there you go, hot.

Leo Laporte Why didn’t we think of that?

David Spark Two negatives do make a positive. Next week on trending topics. Well balloon boy.

Leo Laporte Well actually, David, you’ve been doing a little studying on real time search, trending topics is a real wasteland on Twitter and yet it isn’t that real time, I mean, isn’t that real time search?

David Spark So, I am – happen to be actually running an analyst report for GigaOm on this very subject, so…

Leo Laporte Which is why I brought it up.

David Spark I real – I am doing – went to the Real-Time Web Summit. And there – Twitter has its own search and they have the trending topic. By the way have any of you have seen this site

Leo Laporte Yeah. I use…

Baratunde Thurston Yes, obviously.

Leo Laporte He’s quickly typing that in.

David Spark Why each time he makes it, why every time you put…

Leo Laporte I have known about that for about three seconds. It’s real time, come on.

David Spark But every time you go to, look at whatever the trending topics are, how can you know by just the words or the –

Leo Laporte Oh yeah.

David Spark What it is? If you go to the whatthetrend it will explain what these things are and usually it’s a community like everything else with real time web, community adding in the definitions of what all these trends and terms are.

Leo Laporte I use Brizzly.

Baratunde Thurston Same here.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Brizzly does that.

David Spark Oh that’s good.

Leo Laporte Brizzly is a – oh it’s funny. I don’t know how this is a business. It’s like oh, well, this is the web page we think Twitter should have done. And but it has one of the things that it has. If you click on a trending topic, it will – it has in it. It’s kind of like a Wiki.

David Spark It explains it.

Leo Laporte So, there’s a thing that says next to it why. So here’s balloon boy, and you click why and it says…

David Spark How do you spell brizzly?

Baratunde Thurston Two Zs.

Leo Laporte Brizzly.

David Spark Y, of course.

Leo Laporte Titans, Patriots, Pats, Tom Brady, NFL, TDs. But you know some of it is stupid like every night, “it’s goodnight” is one of trending topics.

Baratunde Thurston Yes. Yes. A lot of noise in these topic.

Leo Laporte You’d think Twitter would kind of get a little wise about that? Now, twitter added I think a feature this week that has actually revived twitter from the dead for me. And that’s lists.

John C. Dvorak Ah!

Jim Louderback Have you actually used it? Were you on the list of the people who could use it. You are not supposed to talk about it.

Leo Laporte Yes, I’m on the list. Yes.

Leo Laporte What?

Jim Louderback Because Calacanis posted it out not a minute later he was like oops! I wasn’t supposed to say anything, sorry.

Leo Laporte They didn’t NDA me. They just put it on…

David Spark Sorry. Calacanis spoke too soon? Am I reading this correctly?

Leo Laporte What a shock! So if you are one of the anointed you’ll get this thing on the right hand side of your twitter that says lists and you can create lists – you see you get 20, I’ve used all 20 of them, and so let’s see I have a list of twits and it’s all the people in – I have 56 names in there and then people can follow – this is the thing, there are two things that make it valuable. First of all you can follow somebody’s lists…

Jim Louderback Right.

Leo Laporte En masse.

David Spark Just like a group follow…

Baratunde Thurston Well, that’s batch follow.

Jim Louderback That’s a good idea.

David Spark Yes.

Baratunde Thurston Yes.

Leo Laporte Yes. It’s a group follow and that frankly replaces the suggested user list which is really a broken feature on twitter.

Jim Louderback If you weren’t on the list.

Leo Laporte As all of us who weren’t on the list say.

Jim Louderback Yes, exactly.

Baratunde Thurston It was so broken.

Jim Louderback Everybody on the list is like “keep it going.”

Leo Laporte Yes. Well, you know who’s on the list is people who have millions of followers…

Baratunde Thurston That’s how they got their millions of followers.

Leo Laporte It’s the only way. In fact, it’s interesting because, I won’t say Drew Barrymore, who is the guy, Drew Carey, on the Price is Right?

Jim Louderback Oh, Drew Carey, right.

Leo Laporte Is asking to be on – he wants to give a buck per follower up to a million followers.

Baratunde Thurston Wow!

Leo Laporte Yes.

Baratunde Thurston I’ll do it.

Leo Laporte Exactly. We’ll follow Drew from TV. Add Drew from TV and, but he is only like at a hundred thousand, and my point is even with the campaign where you get everybody saying follow Drew follow Drew…

Jim Louderback Yes.

Leo Laporte You can’t get to a million. You need to be on the SUL lists, the person he needs to ask is ev I want to be on SUL anyway, maybe this lists thing will – however I digress which is pretty much my standard MO.

John C. Dvorak This is kind of like the Wave crap from Google which is useless.

Leo Laporte I don’t think Lists is useless. I think this is pretty good.

Baratunde Thurston I didn’t like that.

Leo Laporte Yes, thank you, Baratunde. It doesn’t even look like it. What are you talking about John?

Baratunde Thurston He just wanted to use the word wave.

Leo Laporte I think he wanted to use the word crap.

Baratunde Thurston Use the word web in a sense.

John C. Dvorak Crap.

Baratunde Thurston No, List could be cool, I mean, I’ve used tweet deck a lot because you can create groups.

Jim Louderback Right. Yes, exactly.

Baratunde Thurston Because I have comedian group, political group, geeks, but they think with tweet deck on the iPhone but no other apps…

Leo Laporte But even more valuable, I now go to @baratunde…

Baratunde Thurston Yes.

Leo Laporte And you‘ve got a list of comics.

Baratunde Thurston Exactly.

Leo Laporte I press one button I follow all those comics.

Baratunde Thurston So you can see what they are talking about so it’s a great way for influencers to curate their influence even more.

Leo Laporte It’s curation is exactly what it is.

Baratunde Thurston Yes, that’s a good word.

Jim Louderback Or it’s Follow Friday taken to it’s illogical extreme.

Baratunde Thurston Follow everyday.

David Spark Follow Friday is obnoxious.

Jim Louderback Right, exactly.

David Spark Because it lacks context and I’ve been harping on this endlessly.

Jim Louderback Yes.

Leo Laporte Well, this does it. This is exactly what Follow Friday should have been and I think frankly this is a breakthrough for Twitter for several reasons, first of all it’s the first time I can remember that Twitter has added a significant feature, right?

David Spark Right.

Baratunde Thurston Yes.

Leo Laporte They do not like adding features.

Baratunde Thurston Other than replies.

Leo Laporte Yes, right. And they had…

David Spark No, but they kind of leave, oh, we got our API open so everyone else will add the features, we don’t have to add them.

Baratunde Thurston Yes, but you need some core things like in the service itself.

David Spark I agree but…

Baratunde Thurston Well, let’s fight anyway.

David Spark That seems like their attitude.

Leo Laporte It’s radio, John’s taking care of that. Go ahead John, what do you think?

John C. Dvorak I think we are starting to talk about Twitter again.

Baratunde Thurston Yes.

Leo Laporte It’s that or the balloon boy, John. I don’t know.

John C. Dvorak Come on there is news out there.

Leo Laporte All right. Tell us your big story of the week?

John C. Dvorak Well, how about your friend Vivek Kundra who obviously had something to do with Virginia some time ago and now there are $2 billion of whole Virginia computer system that they – they’ve been trying to put in for the last few years has just – looks like they just threw billions and billions of dollars down the toilet.

Leo Laporte Wait a minute. And this is probably something that he – why did you…

John C. Dvorak It’s him or his pal, one of the two.

Leo Laporte Why did you call him “my friend”? I don’t think he is my friend. I know he is no fan of yours.

John C. Dvorak Well, I wouldn’t think.

Leo Laporte Yes. You’ve been trying to get Vivek in trouble for a long time now.

John C. Dvorak Well, him and his other…

Leo Laporte It’s Aneesh.

John C. Dvorak Yes, well, because you know why do we have at the top of government people that don’t have any credentials, that are making huge decisions that cost the – that will cost the taxpayer lots of money.

Leo Laporte Isn’t that what government does? Did you just define government?

John C. Dvorak So, we are supposed to stay, oh, great that’s what government does. It’s not what government’s supposed to do.

Leo Laporte District of Columbia this week hired a specialized search engine developer and entrepreneur, that’s a bad start right there, as it’s new chief technology officer overseeing what is arguably one of the most visible progressive and troubled municipal technology operations in the U.S., [ph] Ryan Sebeck is the founder of Enquira (15:04), a privately held San Bruno, California based knowledge management firm, he succeeds Vivek Kundra, who of course is this nation’s CIO.

Baratunde Thurston Where is this story?

Leo Laporte I’m making it up as I go along.

Baratunde Thurston Oh, okay.

Leo Laporte Pretty good ad libbing though, don’t you think?

Baratunde Thurston That’s awesome. It sounded so professional.

Leo Laporte Yes. Well, that’s my job. That’s what I do. All right.

No, this is a story in the computer world. This is what you are talking about though, right John?

John C. Dvorak Well that’s kind of the tail end of the story. The real problem is some contract they did with Grumman that apparently – to revamp the entire state and it just hasn’t gone anywhere. I don’t know why Grumman would be – would get a big multi-billion dollar contract for computer services when there is a company like, let me think, IBM, Unisys, there are these companies that kind of specialize in that.

Leo Laporte I’ll tell you, I’ll give you a big story for this week, Google announced it’s quarterly results and a resounding success; now it’s not it’s biggest quarter ever by any means but it was up 8% and given that the online ad space has really been suffering, that’s a huge – that’s a big, big number.

Jim Louderback Well they also said they are also on the acquisition trail again which I think is interesting.

Leo Laporte They are going to start buying.

Jim Louderback So they are going to start buying.

Baratunde Thurston And they are hiring again.

Leo Laporte That’s – it’s grow – it’s a go-go time for go-go Google.

Jim Louderback For go-go Google.

Baratunde Thurston For Timmeh. (16:26)

Leo Laporte For Timmeh. (16:27)

John C. Dvorak So, Leo…

Leo Laporte But, I haven’t finished. So a new report out from Arbor, they did a two year study of Internet use and found that Google was – Google traffic is 6% of all Internet use.

David Spark They – there was a while ago, was showing as high as 10%. No. but for Yahoo!, because of all the property they own they were getting 10% traffic.

Leo Laporte As high as 10%. Right. Huge traffic.

David Spark That’s amazing; that’s higher than Google.

Leo Laporte Yes. And, and this is the most interesting result from the whole thing; in all likelihood Google’s bandwidth bill for all of this is zero.

Baratunde Thurston Peering.

Leo Laporte Yes, Baratunde.

Baratunde Thurston Booyah. I used to work with Telecom too. What? Let’s go…

Leo Laporte Good work.

Baratunde Thurston Let’s do this.

Leo Laporte Good work.

Baratunde Thurston It’s begun to…

Leo Laporte All right. I attempted on this WEEK in GOOGLE yesterday to define peering and I didn’t do such a good job; would you explain to the group?

Baratunde Thurston So, we’d have a lot of – we use to have a really top-down system where small ISPs talked to larger ISPs, talked to larger ones and connect these big metro area exchanges often instead of billing between two parties, they’ll pool their resources and simply swap traffic. It simplifies billing and you have sort of a net balance of payments which occurs instead of a 100 billion going this way, 99 billion going that way, the bills net one billion. So peering decreases that altogether and says no cash.

Leo Laporte But the net result is free.

Baratunde Thurston Yes.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Baratunde Thurston And it means free, but there are costs involved. There is still moving traffic.

Leo Laporte Yes.

David Spark Yes, well, the cost of actually the fiber that you physically own.

Baratunde Thurston Yes, the laying that fiber. And you have to amortize that over a long period of time so there are still accounting charges taking place but it’s not in the same sort of ongoing operating expenses that you’d think metering your electricity at home for like a lot of money.

David Spark So, the whole 500 million a year is...

Baratunde Thurston Doesn’t really work that way.

Leo Laporte Yes. Yes, that was the number that was Credit Suisse or one of the analyst came up with, that Google – that YouTube alone must be costing them a half a billion dollars a year, in fact it’s [ph] – Google said – (18:23) the other thing that Google did is brilliant is when the dot bust happened in 2001, they went out and bought a lot of dark fiber.

David Spark Right, but the thing is – but they bought it and now they are actually using it, so they are actually amortizing their actual money.

Leo Laporte They are lighting it.

Leo Laporte Brilliant.

John C. Dvorak How much do we know that they are actually using?

Baratunde Thurston I don’t know.

John C. Dvorak Do you have any documentation on Google’s fiber access that they own?

Leo Laporte You know, this report unfortunately I think you have to buy it, it’s one of those analysts reports where they tease the content but I haven’t been able to get the full report. But Arbor has been doing this for two years; I mean they’ve been aggregating information from I think they said a 100 ISPs, backbone providers, institutions. They’ve really have been looking at it, so I would imagine that when they say you know that this is how much data Google’s using and this is how much if it is going over their own fiber they probably know what they are talking about. But you are right, John, I don’t – I can’t tell because I’m too cheap to buy the report. Maybe someday I will…

John C. Dvorak Well, if anybody at the table’s got the money.

Leo Laporte Thank you very much.

Baratunde Thurston Maybe you should have your own report; we have a peering relationship with Arbor and they can give you the report or free.

Leo Laporte You know we benefit from peering.

Baratunde Thurston There you go.

Leo Laporte Because bandwidth for the shows that we do and all the video would be hugely expensive – like 40 or $50,000 a month and AOL needs to have a peering relationship because they are a big content sucker, needs to be a content provider, gives us free bandwidth, Cachefly too, and they – and I’m convinced they haven’t told me this but convinced that it’s is to balance their peering relationships.

Baratunde Thurston Yes.

Leo Laporte That makes sense, right?

Baratunde Thurston It does.

Leo Laporte Especially AOL, because AOL probably although, I don’t know how much longer that’s going to last.

Baratunde Thurston They have a headquarters and everything.

Leo Laporte Actually you know what’s interesting about it, I think I mentioned this on the show a while ago, but they did – when they bought Weblogs, Inc. and all those blogs, they are now a huge content provider because they have some of the best most successful blogs in the industry including in gadget.

Baratunde Thurston Video podcasts.

David Spark What’s so funny in the fact that they own these like sort of top tier geek content where before they were all about the lowest level content they could possibly give to the lowest level audience. Very ironic.

Leo Laporte They’ve reinvented themselves

Jim Louderback They also have TMZ though, so let’s be clear.

Leo Laporte Do they have TMZ?

Jim Louderback Oh, yeah.

Leo Laporte Wow! But Yahoo has got OMG. Have you seen OMG?

Jim Louderback No. I went there once, yeah.

Baratunde Thurston Yahoo OMG: it’s better than TMZ.

David Spark No, but the thing is that not…

Jim Louderback Isn’t that like saying the stuff on the bottom of your right shoe is better than the stuff at the bottom of your left shoe.

Leo Laporte Pretty close, pretty close! All right, I got to do an ad speaking of peering relationships. So you may all take a break. John, if you want to baste your meat you just go right ahead. Are you cooking? I know it sounds nasty. It’s not. It actually couldn’t be more wholesome. John cooks Sundays.

John C. Dvorak No, actually I have to run down to the…

Leo Laporte What the hell is that? What is he doing? He has got a big fluffy animal in there. Go ahead.

John C. Dvorak I have to run down to an event after the show so I am not basting my meat today.

Leo Laporte Oh, all right, nothing on the…

John C. Dvorak But I will change out of this purple outfit and put on something less flashy.

Leo Laporte Will you clarify for me because there is some debate in the chat room; is that a sweat shirt or a sweater?

John C. Dvorak It’s a sweat shirt.

Leo Laporte Okay, somebody thought it was knit, which would make it a sweater. Or for our British listeners, a jumper.

John C. Dvorak A jumper.

Leo Laporte John, are you wearing a jumper today? All right, ladies and gentlemen, I want to tell you about the great folks at Citrix and GoToMeeting. Here comes the pitch stand-back. That’s a little baseball metaphor for those of you watching the post season.

GoToMeeting, how many times have you been on a phone call and tried to say, okay. Now imagine if you will. I have got a PowerPoint presentation. Slide one and you start describing the slide. It just takes all the fun out of it. See this is the beauty of GoToMeeting. With GoToMeeting, you set up that meeting ahead of time, send them an outlook message. It does that automatically or you can even do it on the fly while you are on the phone. It’s that easy to use. You just say, “Hey, look, I want to show you this. I got some magic here, little magic I want to show you” Go to All right, see that button on the left that say join the meeting. Click that. They don’t have to install any software. They just enter the meeting ID and all of a sudden boom. They’re seeing the PowerPoint for themselves. You’re walking them through the presentations, great for sales.

You can collaborate on the document. You’ve got a word processing document opened. You say, “Okay, I’ll gonna let you type in here too and…“ It’s like Google Wave before there was a Wave. It also works for training. So if you’ve got the software in your computer and they don’t, you can say, “Let me show you how you use it. Okay, now you want to try it? You can take control. You can even swap control back and forth.”

It’s from Citrix. These guys really know remote access. They have been doing it for years. Do you remember Jim, the good old days of Comdex. Did you ever meet Ed Yakabuchi?

Jim Louderback I’ve known Ed Yakabuchi for a while. He actually almost drowned me in a hot tub at an industry event once.

Leo Laporte Isn’t he a great guy. Really?

Jim Louderback Yes.

David Spark But you were asking for it. Right?

Jim Louderback It was late in the – there was much frivolity going on.

Leo Laporte Great guy though.

David Spark I want to know the details of how you got into a hot tub with him.

Leo Laporte He was a large fellow…you can’t do hot tub meetings. No, it doesn’t work online, no. He was part of the OS2 team. Well that’s was interesting because remember there was a swap between Microsoft and IBM, Ed was on the OS2 team and the OS2 team came to Redmond and Microsoft sent people to Boca and I think Microsoft ended up writing most of OS2 and Ed wrote much of NT which is how he got to know all the kernel right? And so he was able to do the remote access stuff. In fact, Microsoft licensed it right back immediately. That’s where the remote desktop came from it was Ed’s code. So anyway this guy knows remote access. He is no longer there. I think he does like some sort of jet…

Jim Louderback He has a jet company and I actually was in eastern Florida. I was down in Palm Springs. And I put on Twitter that I was there and I didn’t check. I got a message from like “you are here. Come, have dinner with me.” And I totally missed out so… next time I go to Florida.

Leo Laporte Ed, if you listen to TWiT, please give us a call. We’ll get you on the show sometime. It will be fun.

Jim Louderback You know I’m connected to him and it’s a good excuse for me reach out and get him to come up with me on the show. He is awesome. He has got a great voice for radio too, a very deep voice. So he will be good.

Leo Laporte You know it’s funny because you’ve got a story about Ed, I’ve got a story. Gina Smith and I were in a rental car with Ed when he backed into a pylon and totaled the car. It was a rental car. It was great fun.

Jim Louderback Yeah, you are alive, I am alive so…

Leo Laporte We survived. It sounds like Ed was kind of a…

Baratunde Thurston So tech is really dangerous.

Leo Laporte Apparently so yeah.

Baratunde Thurston It’s like really dangerous.

Leo Laporte Yeah, we’ll talk about COMDEX; those were the good old days. Anyway GoToMeeting is from Citrix. The roots of remote access are deep with these guys. They know what they are doing. I almost sound like Yoda.

David Spark What happened here with John?

Leo Laporte John’s gone Findlay.

David Spark This is no better, John.

Leo Laporte Let me finish the commercial, then we’re going to talk about John’s sartorial choices.

David Spark We’re still in the commercial?

Leo Laporte We’re still in the commercial, only because you keep derailing it! That’s the thing I got to say. If you go there, you can sign up for a free 30-day trial. I am not kidding. This is the best. We use it all the time. We use it on the shows. It’s the best; We thank them so much for their support and now ladies and gentlemen, this is the first TWiT we have ever had a costume change during the show.

David Spark Very Britney Spears of you, John.

Leo Laporte It is. It looks like – isn’t that a Scottish whiskey?

John C. Dvorak Findlay is the division two, NCAA football championship team from last season.

Baratunde Thurston Here’s the test for your listeners and your chat room people. When I say OH, you respond with...?

Leo Laporte OH, wait a minute. Overheard?

Baratunde Thurston See if the chat room got it. OH-? Yes, it goes to [ph] proxyman (26:02).

Leo Laporte IO. OH-IO

Baratunde Thurston Yes.

Leo Laporte Oh, they all got it. Are you from Ohio?

Baratunde Thurston No, but I have family and friends there. It’s a great state. I always love to give a little love to O-H-I-O.

Leo Laporte That’s good. And it’s just like when you are in Texas, if you go…

Wait, what is it?

Baratunde Thurston I don’t know, I don’t speak to Texans.

Leo Laporte No, no, in Texas.

John C. Dvorak T-e-x…

Leo Laporte If you go – they go deep in the heart of Texas.

David Spark They did this in the Peewee Herman movie.

Leo Laporte Did they?

David Spark There was a reference to that.

[whistling and clapping]

Leo Laporte Ok, that’s – we’ve really descended… (26:36).

John C. Dvorak Oh yeah, I always do that when I am in Texas.

Leo Laporte Hook ‘em Horns.

Baratunde Thurston I just laugh when I see John in that.

Leo Laporte It’s very orange.

Baratunde Thurston It’s so orange.

John C. Dvorak I thought it was going to tone it down. I am going to have to – I don’t know what I am going to do with a camera this orange.

Leo Laporte I gave you a new camera. We gave him the Logitech 9000 and it’s making you look like a Muppet.

Jim Louderback I don’t know if it’s the clothes.

John C. Dvorak It’s got so much light coming in, it’s ridiculous (27:01).

Leo Laporte Is there a Muppet setting on that camera? Because it has a lot of features.

John C. Dvorak I know it’s got a lot of cool settings you can set it to.

Leo Laporte It’s like supersaturated. Maybe it’s just…

David Spark What is with your collection of stuffed animals?

Baratunde Thurston Who is this man?

Leo Laporte You never met him? Let me tell you.

David Spark You don’t know John?

John C. Dvorak Why would he?

Baratunde Thurston Oh, I know. I used to read Information Week in high school because I’m a big nerd.

Leo Laporte There you go. Oh, that’s [ph] what I heard (27:23).

Baratunde Thurston I never saw his stuffed animal collection in that time.

Leo Laporte This guy used to be the backend of Infoworld for many, many years.

Jim Louderback No, PC Magazine.

Leo Laporte Well, then PC Magazine.

John C. Dvorak The back end. The butt end of Infoworld.

David Spark I believe that John – that the puppets were ghost writing for him, or the stuffed animals or whatever they are.

Leo Laporte What the Muppets?

No, John was the last page in Infoworld, weren’t you, John?

John C. Dvorak For a while.

Leo Laporte That was – was that when you made your bones?

John C. Dvorak No, actually when I quit is when I – it was when I went to PC Magazine.

Leo Laporte PC Magazine is where you really became famous. We’ll never forget the great Inside Track column which is – in how many years now, that you have been doing that?

John C. Dvorak It’s going private shortly.

Leo Laporte Oh, yeah?

John C. Dvorak It’s been going on since 1981.

Leo Laporte Jesus. I mean geez-louise.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, I know it’s ridiculous.

Leo Laporte It’s like mentioning bacon. Now I am in trouble with the Christians.

Baratunde Thurston Bacon’s awesome.

John C. Dvorak By the way, why don’t you tell us, tell the viewers out there, or listeners, that – what happened in Dubai?

Leo Laporte I like Dubai. You completely misinformed me. I felt like…

John C. Dvorak Well, I just said I thought it was creepy.

Baratunde Thurston That’s what he does!

Leo Laporte I felt like Humphrey Bogart. I felt like Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca, he’s like, “I came here for the waters,” “But, Rick we are in desert,” “I was misinformed.” You implied that there was something kind of odd about it. In fact, I found it to be a vibrant, exciting place. It’s actually, I think, kind of inspirational because – and everybody who’s there is telling me this. They love Sheikh Mohammad, the guy who runs it. His father started it. Dubai is part of the United Arab Emirates but one of the – they have less oil than lot of the people, and they knew that they would have to have an economy, post-oil economy. So his dad and later Sheikh Mohammad said, “We are going to build an economy not based on oil.” Dubai is in a good position as kind of a hub to Africa to the rest of the Middle East.

John C. Dvorak Boy, you really drank the Kool-Aid on this one.

Leo Laporte I got more. I am not done. The chamber got to me, man. And so it’s really go-go. It’s tax free. It is basically – they are building 24x7 even in the recession.

David Spark I have seen the photographs of how fast that city is building, it’s out of control.

Leo Laporte But lot of people kind of focus on the ski slope and the mall, you know the world’s biggest mall.

John C. Dvorak They don’t focus on the slave labor?

Leo Laporte I keep hearing slave labor. What makes you think – I mean how are they slaves? Are they locked in?

John C. Dvorak Just look it up. They get these people, they sucker them into coming, they give them a bunch of money in advance, and they can’t leave until they pay it off, and they don’t give them the salaries they are supposed to get. It’s just a known scam that’s going on.

David Spark Isn’t that how they got you to work [ph] with Cliff Davis? (30:04)

John C. Dvorak People from Asia, but (30:05) oh yeah, you guys are right. It’s fine what they are doing.

Leo Laporte Well, I am not condoning it. I just don’t know. I did ask people.

John C. Dvorak And by the way, Sheikh Mo is supposed to be in debt to the tune of about say – he’s beating Madoff here.

Leo Laporte No, I think he is and a lot of it’s to Abu Dhabi. They borrowed a lot of money from their sister Emirate which does have the oil, but I think that he is leveraged because he is trying to build something. I don’t think – but one of the attitudes a lot of people say is a lot of the other sheikhs in the other countries will just take the oil money and enrich themselves and he is trying to at least build an economy.

John C. Dvorak Well, that’s not necessarily true; in Kuwait they spread it amongst the public, at least the citizenry.

Leo Laporte Yeah, well that’s one thing that does – is true. There is a very rigid class structure. There is the Emirati, there is only 300,000 of them. There are 6 million expats. There is a managerial level that’s all European and Indian. The next level down are the drivers, the kind of the white-collar, blue-collar jobs are Pakistanis; then there is the Chinese and Filipino service staff and there is, below that, the construction workers and I will tell you if you are in a 100 degree weather being a construction worker is not a prime job. So I did ask one of the drivers. I said tell me how you got here. He said, well he is from Pakistan. He said they have an agency in Karachi and I said “did they lie to you?” He said well ‘they kind of – it’s like army recruiters, right? They kind of implied that I – it’d be this and that’ but he is not unhappy. He is making money. He gets a month off every year to go home and he is sending money to his family and he has a three-year contract. So I…

Baratunde Thurston Well, at least you asked. That’s good.

Leo Laporte Well, I wanted to know and I didn’t talk to a construction worker, I didn’t run into any, and I don’t know if it’s worse for them but I don’t know if slave – look at it, John I think it’s probably a lot like New York City was in the 1880s.

John C. Dvorak Oh there you go.

Leo Laporte Probably like San Francisco was to the Chinese when they built the railroads.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, the problem is, it’s not the 1880s anymore. Yeah, it was probably like San Francisco in the 1860s, I mean come on.

Leo Laporte Yeah, it’s a boom town. Yeah I don’t know. You are right. I am not condoning or saying I even know anything about the human rights conditions there and it could very well be terrible but my experience of the place was very different. It’s being sold as the Vegas of the desert. It’s definitely not that. It seems to me a boom economy much like Singapore, much like the Asian Tigers of Beijing.

Jim Louderback Did you go skiing?

Baratunde Thurston On a skyscraper?

Leo Laporte Jennifer said we have seen malls. Let’s not go to the malls. So we didn’t go the malls. We went to…

John C. Dvorak No, that’s too bad. It’s not quite the same malls that you get elsewhere.

Leo Laporte I didn’t shop.

Jim Louderback It’s not Valley Fair.

Leo Laprote We took the water taxi down the Creek – they call it the Creek. I don’t what it is. It’s a giant river and took the water taxi down to the gold and spice souks and that was kind of cool. You know what the best thing was John? Is the event itself where they had a lot of speakers from all over the Arab world.

Baratunde Thurston This was Tedex?

Leo Laporte It was a Tedex. It was a franchised Ted. It was an all-day event and they had speakers from Saudi Arabia and I met people from all the Arab world. They had a speaker [ph] Maserat (33:06) who goes to India. She has something she calls eight-day school where they go to India. She teaches girls who are really not being very well educated about computers. She says well, they go from knowing nothing about these to being able to use Office. I was kind of like, I don’t know that’s the best thing for them to learn but – how to use the internet, how to use Microsoft Office in eight days and it’s really empowering. I mean it’s really exciting what she is doing. I met a lot of interesting people and I think I got a better picture of the Arab world and my message to them was we need to hear your story because we get a story in the U.S. that is perhaps not reflective of who you are. We hear about the extremists, the fundamentalists, a lot of people came up to me and said I am not religious fundamentalist. This is not who we are.

Baratunde Thurston Well, it’s like them giving a view of us and saying like Glenn Beck represents all of America.

Leo Laporte Exactly.

Baratunde Thurston He represents some people, but he doesn’t represent everybody.

Leo Laporte Well, that’s what I said, we have extremists too and I understand and maybe this is what New Media can really help us with which is give you a chance through podcasts, or blogging to tell your story and I think you need to tell your story because we need to hear it – that it’s not this unified, homogenized world that we get in our media. So I think it was really, I think it was a very fruitful exchange of ideas. It was really great. I had a great time and it doesn’t hurt that we flew business class on Emirates.

Baratunde Thurston On Emirates? Yeah. Is it true what they say?

Leo Laporte No, there is a shower but I didn’t see anybody in it.

Baratunde Thurston Okay.

Jim Louderback How was the technology on the plane?

Leo Laporte What do they say?

Baratunde Thurston I don’t know. I can’t even afford to hear what business class on Emirates like.

Leo Laporte It’s very nice. It’s like business in other – although they have – the screens are 20 inches. They are big screens. Their entertainment system’s really good.

Jim Louderback Twenty inches for each seat?

Leo Laporte Yeah. Nice, yeah.

Baratunde Thurston What?

Jim Louderback Really, wow.

Leo Laporte It’s a big screen right in front of you and one – a listener, I want to say hi to Bruno who is a pilot for Emirates. He flies the 380, the A380, the big jet.

David Spark Did you take the 380 or not?

Leo Laporte No, it was just a 777. He says we don’t get a lot of traffic from the U.S. anymore. The economy has really killed us but we get a lot of traffic from Toronto, so we fly the 380 out of Toronto and it flies full every day he says.

David Spark Wow.

Baratunde Thurston What?

Leo Laporte Yeah, massive.

David Spark No, I was just in Toronto, their economy is not hurting. I was at a mall in Toronto, jam-packed. No problem whatsoever.

Leo Laporte I love Canada. I miss going up there. You want to go back?

David Spark I have a client now in Toronto.

Leo Laporte You can take [indiscernible] (35:25).

John C. Dvorak A client. What? You – in your PR business?

David Spark No, not my PR.

Leo Laporte What do you do?

Baratunde Thurston You sound like his mother.

Leo Laporte What do you do?

Baratunde Thurston What do you do David?

Leo Laporte Is it in computers?

David Spark It is in technology. Most of my clients are in technology. I have a custom-publishing company. I help companies tell the story of their company to get the information out there but it’s all publishing print, radio, TV, and online.

Leo Laporte And would you disclose your clientele so we know if we can trust you?

David Spark Entertainment Media is one of the clients in Toronto. They actually are releasing a pretty cool new product. It’s called Itty Bitty and the version that they are releasing is with NBC. It is called the Communicator (36:11) and it’s kind of like a cross between Skype and Hulu. So, it’s like – it’s a communications app where you get…

Leo Laporte So you call somebody but instead you get the Simpsons? Like, everybody looks like Bart?

David Spark The Simpsons is not on NBC.

Leo Laporte No, it’s on Hulu.

David Spark No, the idea is yes you can, oh yes, you are right but the idea is that you can have text, voice, and soon video chat and then also all within the desktop app also be able to watch videos of anything you want and – anyway it’s going to be available at the end of this month.

Leo Laporte I didn’t ask you for a plug. I just wanted disclosure.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, geez!

David Spark

Leo Laporte Now proven why I didn’t want to have you on the show in the first place.

David Spark I am getting my plug-in.

Leo Laporte David was – worked with us at TechTV, he’s an old friend and I apologize for thinking you were a PR shill.

David Spark I work sometimes with PR but I don’t do any PR whatsoever.

Leo Laporte In fact this is – except for Baratunde, this is an all Tech TV…

John C. Dvorak Uh huh.

David Spark I’m constantly on your show, John and you don’t seem to have a problem with it.

Leo Laporte But John doesn’t have any scruples about that kind of thing. I am the one who has the scruples.

John C. Dvorak What difference does it make?

Leo Laporte I think that that’s actually an interesting question. There is a – there seems a thread. Jim, I want your opinion on this because I followed the Jim Louderback ethical principles. When we were at Tech TV, you had a great document we all signed that I think it’s still the template, the pattern for me on ethical principles in journalism. I thought it was really, really good but lately it seems to be – and I was talking about this with Jay Rosen from NYU at Blog World. There seems to be the trend that anything goes as long as you disclose. So it’s…

John C. Dvorak It’s a rhyme.

Leo Laporte I know I like that. I am just working on my motivational speaking – is if you – it’s okay to take money. I will give you an example – I was invited – the publicist I know said we do these junkets to Asia and Sony and Nokia pay for it, and it would be great and I said I won’t do that, it’d put me in the pocket of Sony and Nokia. She said, what are you talking about? Everybody at TechCrunch, everybody does scene (38:06), everybody does this, you just disclose it and to me disclosure does not compensate for the potential conflict of interest.

David Spark But it all depends on what editorial brand that you are creating.

Leo Laporte Well, that’s right and that’s what Jay said.

David Spark Tech Crunch’s editorial brand is very different from TWiT’s editorial brand.

Leo Laporte Right.

David Spark And if they don’t have a problem with writing stories about companies they invest in just because they disclose it, then end of story. That’s their editorial brand.

Leo Laporte And that’s exactly what Jay said and he said the point is let as long as the viewer, listener, reader knows, you let them decide. But my point to Jay was but there has to be somebody who stands above the fray. Otherwise – we need that person.

David Spark Leading into the whole FCC nonsense with bloggers.

Leo Laporte Yes, we are going to get to that, exactly, very good.

John C. Dvorak Well, I – let me throw in my two cents, since this is an issue. First of all this – most of these ethical considerations which don’t – which are not the same in Europe by the way as they are in the United States.

Leo Laporte Neither is sex, that’s okay.

John C. Dvorak Well in fact in Europe they expect the vendor, for example if you have a vendor event in Seoul, Korea.

Leo Laporte Did you see the lap dancers in the Japanese event by the way yesterday? Yahoo! Hack had – they do this Yahoo! Hacker Day thing where programmers come. There is a video on YouTube of – they have lap dancers because they get the programmers up on a stage, sit in the seat and these lap dancers come and dance in their lap and they thought that this was cool.

David Spark Where was this – this was taking place in Japan?

Leo Laporte Tokyo.

John C. Dvorak It’s embarrassing.

Leo Laporte It’s embarrassing to me to watch it.

David Spark I am always stunned in Texas going out for lunch at a strip club both men and women is a totally normal thing.

Baratunde Thurston But that’s a different country.

Leo Laporte That’s Europe.

Baratunde Thurston So, there’s different customs.

Leo Laporte That’s in Europe, isn’t it?

Jim Louderback Can you just hear Carol Bartz, the new CEO of Yahoo! start talking about this?

Leo Laporte She must be furious about this.

Jim Louderback The four-letter words that are going to come out of her mouth in a tirade are going to–

Leo Laporte She’s great that way.

Jim Louderback She is salty.

Leo Laporte She is salty.

Jim Louderback Love that.

David Spark By the way, can anyone explain Yahoo!’s current ad campaign to me?

Jim Louderback It’s about Yoo. It’s about Yoo (40:04).

Leo Laporte It’s Y!

Jim Louderback You take out the A and the H, the AH part then you are left with [ph] Yoo (40:08).

Leo Laporte It’s the crappiest…

David Spark It’s the world’s worst ad campaign.

Baratunde Thurston Is it worse than the Windows ‘have a party’ ad campaign?

David Spark Yeah.

Leo Laporte Hey, I am having one on Thursday. Come to my party, wait a minute let me show you the party pack.

John C. Dvorak You got the party pack [indiscernible] (40:22).

David Spark Leo loves to host.

Jim Louderback So I was trying to get Lloyd Case who I used to work with at ExtremeTech got one too.

Leo Laporte He has, by the way, silky hair, beautiful, silky hair.

Jim Louderback So I was trying to get Lloyd to come into Tekzilla to do this on Thursday also. I don’t know…

Leo Laporte You can come to our party. Come to our party. CNET is going to come and visit. So here it is ladies and gentlemen, the Windows Seven party pack. John, did you want to finish your thought before I open this box of fun?

John C. Dvorak No, no, no. I can blather on about this for days [ph] so let’s carry on (40:46).

Leo Laporte So why is Europe, so why is it Europe different? I mean…

John C. Dvorak No, I actually happen to have more of a European perspective. This whole thing, all this ethical stuff including that document you are talking about, pretty much was designed by the New York Times for the sole purpose of giving the New York Times an advantage over smaller papers and smaller venues. If you have an event, say for example, that’s taking place in Tokyo where breaking news is going to take place, it would normally be expected in the European press that some companies would fly you out there. Sony, Nokia, and if you read the European reports they are not giving them any breaks just because they got a free flight. The New York Times has it that no, no, no you cannot go to this event on Nokia’s – you cannot go to the Nokia event on Nokia’s dime. We have to pay for it ourselves on our dime and then you can go and be more objective when you report on it. I am thinking this is just to keep out the smaller papers; they’re are not going to send anybody.

Leo Laporte Or bloggers who can afford to go.

John C. Dvorak So the whole thing is a basic scam and the fact of the matter is as if Nokia’s putting on an event and they want to drag you over to it. They should pay.

Leo Laporte Okay, that makes sense.

Baratunde Thurston He is so calm.

Jim Louderback So you know, you are missing the heart of the some of that, I mean yes you are right about bringing people over and I think that as long you disclose there is definitely an argument to be made there, but it’s the giving of equipment without telling people and it’s just, you need to make sure that people – that you disclose and I think you’ve got to stand above it a little bit, but I applaud you for… (42:13)

David Spark This is all about the editorial view. If you want to be the…

John C. Dvorak Wait a minute, are you telling me that the problem when you’re going – just hold on a second. So I am going to be a car reviewer. So I am going to drive the Chevy Malibu one week, then I am going to drive the Chevy whatever the heck it is and I’m going to try the Ford Fusion, does anybody think I am buying these cars?

David Spark Consumer Reports actually buys their cars, don’t they?

Leo Laporte Yeah, they do.

Baratunde Thurston

It’s cool to get stuff bought, but it’s fine to get stuff loaned to you as long as you give it back.

John C. Dvorak Fine, then Consumer Reports are basically what you are saying and I, by the way, I would like to see that documented, that they buy these cars.

Leo Laporte Oh, they do, they do. They [inaudible] (42:45).

Leo Laporte They also don’t accept advertising, that’s right.

Jim Louderback Should have Kevin McCain on the show. He is the editor [indiscernible] (42:50). He’s the editor of PC World.

Leo Laporte Anyway, you want to see [indiscernible] (42:54).

John C. Dvorak Anyway the point is that I don’t think the public – everyone is thinking well God, I mean we’re looking at stuff that’s, especially trade media, who cares. I mean…

Leo Laporte I care, I will tell you why. I think…

John C. Dvorak Government and…

Leo Laporte Trade media is the most important one.

Jim Louderback Exactly because you are closest to the subject that you cover.

Leo Laporte Right, it’s the beltway problem. If you cover the Washington political scene, and Baratunde, you weigh in on this one…

John C. Dvorak I would rather reading someone who knows something about Intel who’s an engineer and even a guy who works at Intel, in fact by the way there is a lot of new journalism that is going to start bringing people from actual places where they work and have them write about stuff because they can write from a perspective that actually makes some sense as opposed to the – what we have been trained in these journalism schools they have some – some neutral observer who doesn’t actually know anything, but they can maybe ask the right questions if they are lucky. The fact of the matter is in the 21st century they don’t know what questions to ask and they never will.

Leo Laporte Well, you are right.

David Spark By the way this is the model for my business, John. Thank you for setting me up. I appreciate it.

Baratunde Thurston Just $19.95 a month…

David Spark I help companies tell their own story because the companies need to tell their own story. If you – if you go through a PR agent, you tell a journalist, then they sell it – you are like selling cocaine cut three times.

Leo Laporte No it’s true.

David Spark You should sell uncut cocaine.

Leo Laporte We all know that anytime you read a press, a general press report about a subject you know about, whether it’s poker or Pokemon, you know they get it wrong. They never get it right. If it’s a deep subject they never get it right. So that’s a good point, but I am with you Jim, somebody has to stand above the fray and be editorially pure. Not everybody…

Baratunde Thurston And I think to say that it doesn’t matter in trade press, sort of misses the point, because whatever the industry is it does matter if you are making a purchasing decision. It doesn’t…

Leo Laporte You want somebody…

Jim Louderback Or the school system, do I buy this sort or that sort of [indiscernible] (44:40)?

John C. Dvorak What are you assuming is that there is a level of corruption and I agree with that. Yeah, no it does matter if somebody is out and out corrupt but what is happening to us that we can’t just make that assumption. We have to assume that most of these people are honest and if they’re not you can catch them.

Leo Laporte Why do you have to assume people are honest?

John C. Dvorak Or they can just disclose everything if they want to, but I don’t think –

Jim Louderback But there are more practical reasons why.

John C. Dvorak Take a look at the individual writers and determine whether you think that they are – they could be prejudiced. Most – there’s very few writers out there that aren’t bigoted about one thing or another in terms of their…

David Spark There are many, many shades of grey, John. There is the completely honest journalist who takes not a dime from anybody and then the person who shields for anyone who throws them a buck and there are so many shades in between…

Leo Laporte Yeah.

David Spark And the point is to find where you want to be in between.

Jim Louderback There are more practical reasons too when you are testing a type of product and helping people to decide how to spend their $1,000 on a notebook or $2,000 on a TV or whatever, and if all you get is really expensive equipment for free and you are used to using it, you have no sense of how the normal person who is taking money out of their pocket that they worked an entire month for and what they are going to end up using it and getting that into reviewers heads…Yeah, I get a new computer everyday and it goes back and I get another new one.

Leo Laporte It’s a very unrealistic point of view.

David Spark Exactly.

John C. Dvorak That’s fine, but I think people can pick up on that. I think the more important things are, for example, during the era of WordStar if you will recall every writer no matter who it was because they all had a free copy of WordStar at some point or another, whether it was bootlegged or given to them compared every other word processor with WordStar as a standard that really wasn’t a standard…

Leo Laporte Right.

John C. Dvorak And now Microsoft Word is the standard that’s not really a standard. I am more concerned about that kind of prejudice, bigotry, and skewed reviewing than the fact that somebody’s reviewing a $5,000 LCD and he thinks it is the greatest things since sliced bread and yeah, may be you don’t sympathize with the guy that can’t afford it, but the guy can afford it. He is not going to buy it anyway, so what difference does it make.

David Spark But the thing is that if you keep doing it, you will eventually get exposed and that’s the wonderful thing about the internet is that they uncover fraud very, very quickly.

Leo Laporte That’s true. We are in a better era for that, that’s [indiscernible] (46:44).

David Spark If you choose to not be transparent you will eventually be exposed.

Leo Laporte Okay, well let me tell you…

Baratunde Thurston Do you think there is anything in there that’s the same color as Dvorak’s orange?

Jim Louderback I think there is.

Leo Laporte I want to disclose, I got this free from Microsoft.

Baratunde Thurston There’s a copy of Windows in there too, right?

John C. Dvorak Yeah, now you are telling, right.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Baratunde Thurston Here’s a free copy of Windows ultimate…

John C. Dvorak There is a free copy of Windows Seven. So now we can’t believe a word you say.

Baratunde Thurston But Leo is having a party to pay for it.

Leo Laporte I am, you have to invite nine people. So that’s why they give you nine napkins. They have to be nine very neat people.

John C. Dvorak I complained via Twitter that I did not get invited to one of these and someone invited me.

Leo Laporte You have to apply!

Jim Louderback No, he didn’t get invited…

Leo Laporte Oh, you are invited, come to my party.

David Spark Well, I’d love to, but I’ve been already been invited to one [indiscernible] (47:23).

Leo Laporte If you come, if you come October 22, you are all invited to the cottage; come by that’s the day Windows comes out. My party starts at 11, look who we have got. We have got a blue streamer…

Baratunde Thurston 11 a.m.?

Leo Laporte A blue streamer, an orange streamer.

John C. Dvorak It is orange?

Baratunde Thurston That is; it’s John orange; that’s Dvorak orange!

Leo Laporte That’s John Dvorak orange.

Jim Louderback Can I open it?

Leo Laporte Yeah, go ahead.

John C. Dvorak It’s almost the same.

David Spark Wait, you’re going to ruin it, it’s for the party.

Baratunde Thurston It’s Dvorak orange.

Jim Louderback Don’t drink it, it’s for the party. Let’s see [indiscernible] (47:46).

Leo Laporte Dvorak orange, yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s an exact match.

Baratunde Thurston How did you know, John? Did Microsoft pay you to wear that orange jacket?

Leo Laporte Okay, and here is, I don’t know what.

John C. Dvorak It’s a hoodie.

Baratunde Thurston That’s yellow.

Leo Laporte It’s yellow, it’s yellow.

Baratunde Thurston Hard to tell with these lights.

Leo Laporte Okay. Here’s a special puzzle, a jigsaw puzzle.

Jim Louderback What is it a puzzle of?

Leo Laporte That’s the Windows Desktop.

Baratunde Thurston A puzzle’s work.

Leo Laporte No, this is what they call an “activity” and then…

David Spark What does that have to do with computers?

John C. Dvorak Are you going to have a bunch of 12 year olds there?

Jim Louderback You’ve all seen the video. You’ve seen the video.

Leo Laporte You think I was joking. Nine Windows Seven napkins, cocktail napkins, just nine; don’t have 10.

John C. Dvorak Are there any coasters?

Baratunde Thurston Can you sell those on eBay?

Leo Laporte People are selling these on eBay, this party pack. A Windows Seven card – deck of cards.

Baratunde Thurston Pro-gambling.

Leo Laporte I could play Solitaire if nobody shows up.

John C. Dvorak Do the cards have pictures of various Microsoft executives who the government is supposed to kill?

Leo Laporte That would be kind of funny if they were naked.

Jim Louderback Yeah. Strip poker.

Leo Laporte I’m afraid it’s just like a Windows Desktop thing; it looks like [ph] Peter Max illustration (48:43). Undifferentiated balloons, they don’t say Windows or nothing, they are just balloons.

David Spark So you could use them for your child’s party.

Baratunde Thurston So this is just a birthday party pack.

Leo Laporte This is a plastic bag you put over you head after nobody shows up at your party.

[Sounds of strangulation]

Baratunde Thurston I can’t believe [inaudible] (49:00).

Jim Louderback Can I ask Dvorak a question? John what wine do you think goes with a Windows party?

Leo Laporte I will give you the whine: I shouldn’t have upgraded to Windows Seven, it’s not working.

John C. Dvorak Wine in a box…

Leo Laporte And then this is…

Jim Louderback There’s some material for you tonight.

Baratunde Thurston I don’t think that Windows Seven party’s are material…

Leo Laporte No, they look like place mats but these are actually lovely – they are nine of them, lovely Windows Seven gift bags, but there are no gifts in them. You are just supposed to – I guess I have to as the party host…

David Spark Make your own gift.

Jim Louderback It’s because you are supposed to buy Windows Seven for all the guests.

Baratunde Thurston Can you make a copy of Windows Seven?

Leo Laporte Oh, yeah. Oh, good idea. I will just copy this DVD and I will put it in there.

John C. Dvorak Just copy the disc.

Leo Laporte Here’s nine coupons for Kaspersky antivirus. You think Microsoft really wouldn’t…

Jim Louderback Well, given that they just released their own free antivirus program. What’s the point?

Leo Laporte I just, it’s like – oh, and as long as you are going to use Windows Seven you might want these.

Jim Louderback Well that’s because they got Kaspersky to pony up big bucks to be on the box. Hello? Keep it real. (49:49)

Leo Laporte Free license to Kaspersky. Oh, as if that weren’t enough. Free license for Norton’s 2010.

Baratunde Thurston So they are already saying this product doesn’t work.

David Spark And they are both yellow, that’s interesting the cards are both yellow.

Leo Laporte This is terrible, as long as you are going to use Windows you might want some protection. There might as well be condoms in here. Here’s Nero, this is actually so you can burn the DVD.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, make copies.

Leo Laporte Windows 7, exclusive offer for Corel.

Baratunde Thurston Corel, wow.

Leo Laporte They are still in business.

John C. Dvorak Corel, isn’t that a competitor with Microsoft.

Leo Laporte Look at, this is cute. I am going to give this to each, each of you for coming to my party.

Jim Louderback Okay, this is a thank you card. Thank you for attending our Windows 7 launch party. We don’t want you to leave empty handed. We were too cheap to give you a copy of Windows 7 but now you can get offers from Windows 7.

Leo Laporte The offer …

Jim Louderback At – Oh I am sorry.

Leo Laporte This is also a Zune pass for two weeks.

Jim Louderback For fourteen days.

Leo Laporte Yeah, yeah I mean we’re not done. There’s more.

Baratunde Thurston There’s more crap in this box.

Leo Laporte There’s more crap in the box. This is interesting packaging, this is a ziplock bag. I believe this harkins back to Bill Gates early days as a software distributor.

Jim Louderback Oh right, yeah. The home brew computer club.

Leo Laporte Yeah, and it’s some sort of. Some sort of more paper. Oh, oh it’s a center piece.

Jim Louderback Yeah.

Leo Laporte That goes right in the center of the table.

Jim Louderback Don’t put – don’t get flowers.

John C. Dvorak This is getting a lamer by the minute.

Baratunde Thurston It’s – I mean it started pretty lame. Is there more.

Leo Laporte This is best part, this is the …

Jim Louderback The Signature edition.

Leo Laporte Steve Balmer, signature edition of Windows 7.

Baratunde Thurston Does it scream at you?

Leo Laporte Developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers. No but there is, I believe there’s a little vial of Steve’s sweat in inside.

Baratunde Thurston That’s disgusting

Leo Laporte That’s that’s – wow. Maybe disgusting but I’ve got his DNA and I’m gonna clone him.

John C. Dvorak I’d say it would be funnier if it did open and his voice started screaming, “I love this company.”

Jim Louderback I love this company!

Leo Laporte So there it is, that’s the Windows 7 party pack. Come October …

Jim Louderback I’m gonna give you your card back because somebody…

Leo Laporte Oh yeah, it’s nine of us.

Jim Louderback Is going to be sorely disappointed. Yeah.

Leo Laporte Yeah, that they don’t get their thank you card.

Jim Louderback The eighth to ninth come and get feel good screwed over …

Baratunde Thurston Is there any way for them to verify that you’re throwing a Windows 7 party, like what if you just have – happen in – to have a party.

David Spark So can anyone actually define for me if that video that they put out their Windows 7, it was a joke.

Leo Laporte That’s real.

Jim Louderback No, it was real, it was real.

David Spark It was real?

Leo Laporte Oh totally.

John C. Dvorak Which one?

David Spark [Indiscernible] (52:14) riding alone.

Leo Laporte Oh you’ve seen it John, haven’t you. Have you seen the censored one?

Baratunde Thurston [Indiscernible] (52:17)

John C. Dvorak The puking girl?

Baratunde Thurston You guys did that last week.

Jim Louderback No, no, no, not the puking girl. Was it – is that Falcon the balloon boy or are we back to the balloon boy. Didn’t he throw up on two different TV shows?

Baratunde Thurston Oh yeah.

Jim Louderback The other thing they’re doing – is they’re taking over an episode of Seth Macfarlane. Yes, Family Guy.

Baratunde Thurston That is the most horrible …

David Spark I can’t believe this.

Jim Louderback Stupidest thing I have ever heard.

Baratunde Thurston That hurts my soul.

Leo Laporte It’s sad.

Jim Louderback 30 minute infomercial.

David Spark Seth Macfarlane’s own brand of his show, he’s got be doing something that – that is going to be trashing windows or Microsoft.

Leo Laporte No, no.

David Spark They’ve got to be doing something.

Leo Laporte But, but there is some question whether it’s Seth or Fox.

Baratunde Thurston No, it’s Seth.

David Spark It’s live with Seth Macfarlane.

Leo Laporte But who gets the money?

Jim Louderback Seth and his production company, I am sure Fox gets some of it.

Leo Laporte It’s the Fox, all the things I’ve seen say, Fox, Fox, Fox.

David Spark Really?

Leo Laporte I am sure Seth, I am sure Seth’s not doing it for free, yeah.

Baratunde Thurston No, he wouldn’t have done it if he wasn’t…

Jim Louderback You saw the cavalcade of comedy stuff they did online with Google and they had Burger King as their sponsor. Burger King is Crispin and Porter their ad agency and Crispin and Porter are also the guys who are doing this thing with Family Guy so, I sense a connection to a Miami agency.

Leo Laporte I have to say, in Microsoft’s defense. I don’t know if there is any defense for Seth but in Microsoft’s defense, this is pretty good marketing.

David Spark Well of course. For Microsoft it’s great.

Baratunde Thurston Unless it sucks. (53:31).

Jim Louderback Is it as good as the – remember the Bill Gates ads when they went into a shoe store and they had Jerry Seinfeld?

Leo Laporte There’s no churos in this.

Jim Louderback Is it as good as that?

David Spark Didn’t they pull all those?

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Jim Louderback No they ran one and pulled it. No, no, no they ran a whole series.

Leo Laporte No, no, it’s not the whole series, there was two. There was one where Bill shakes his butt to show the future of Windows, that’s the shoe store one and then there is the one where they creepily invade a family and like they hang out and live with the family, it’s very, it’s very weird.

Baratunde Thurston Microsoft and humor are just a weird match.

Jim Louderback They don’t go together well, do they?

Baratunde Thurston Like Microsoft and software.

David Spark No but everytime he does a key note and he shows the video, those are usually pretty funny. When you get some out of it. Those are usually funny but anytime he’s actually creating videos for marketing purposes they fail miserably.

Jim Louderback Yeah, you’re right.

Leo Laporte You remember the one with the pacer where they went da da da.

[Commercial] (54:18)

Leo Laporte That is not even funny.

Baratunde Thurston Really hurts and here’s the thing like.

Jim Louderback Is that real?

Leo Laporte Yeah, that was – that part of.

Baratunde Thurston That’s a preview, there’s going to be more of that.

Jim Louderback Wow, oh my gosh.

Baratunde Thurston 30 more minutes or 22. There’s no commercial interruption.

Leo Laporte That’s must see TV.

Baratunde Thurston That’s the commercial.

Leo Laporte You got to watch it though right because it’s like a car wreck

Baratunde Thurston Yeah, we have to – we have to watch a lot of bad things, I am not going to enjoy it. Not going to enjoy it. Because here’s the thing artists, artists need to supported, we’ve always had advertising.

Leo Laporte It’s going too far.

Jim Louderback Seth Macfarlane does not need to be supported, [Indiscernible] (55:14).

Baratunde Thurston This is worse than product placement.

John C. Dvorak This guys got more money than Leo.

Leo Laporte No. I love that the Twitter trending topic was Leo Laporte makes $1, apparently that Twitter couldn’t handle all the zeroes I guess.

Jim Louderback Yeah right.

Leo Laporte So I – I am little conflicted about this because I love the Family Guy.

Baratunde Thurston I am not conflicted.

Leo Laporte It’s bad isn’t it?

Unknown Speaker [Indiscernible] (55:38).

Leo Laporte It’s just awful, it’s just really awful.

Jim Louderback Call a spade a spade; it’s going to suck [ph] cocks. (55:41)

Leo Laporte Wait, okay but wait a minute, okay wait a minute. If it had been a hip product, is the problem that it is Microsoft. It wouldn’t have good with Apple either.

Baratunde Thurston No, because it’s just too much. It’s just we’re being invaded constantly through multiple dimensions and aps and spaces that allows all kinds of advertising.

Leo Laporte You can’t think of product that would be okay.

Baratunde Thurston And this is – I mean you’re co-writing the whole episode, not just the scene. The can of coke.

David Spark Yeah but it is also…

Baratunde Thurston The whole thing is about the product.

David Spark It’s also the edge of the Family Guy too, the whole point of the Family Guy is to – anti the establishment.

Leo Laporte Edgy, not corporate.

John C. Dvorak To blast things.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Baratunde Thurston Comedy especially in that show especially [indiscernible] (56:19).

Jim Louderback Did you notice that his notebook is Dvorak orange as well?

Baratunde Thurston Wow, wow, wow, Dvorak does not own the orange on this laptop. Let me be very clear.

Jim Louderback Show him your laptop, looks like Dvorak orange to me.

Baratunde Thurston Maybe he looks like my laptop.

Leo Laporte This is the orange. Yes I just said. Did you just say who’s zooming who?

Baratunde Thurston I believe I just did.

Leo Laporte Well, well, well, I guess you’re a little older than you look.

Baratunde Thurston Young at heart.

Leo Laporte Any thoughts about Windows 7, Mr. Jim Louderback

Jim Louderback I wrote recently and you were nice enough to point to it but I did a lot of testing on machines that were couple of years cause now that I’m not a reviewer I am not getting free equipment even for a couple of days. And I …

Leo Laporte So you put on your own computer.

Jim Louderback I put it on a bunch of computer that I have built, a bunch of notebooks that I had and only on two out of seven, these were upgrades I did with the release candidate, was it actually good, I mean – it crashed, there were, I couldn’t find drivers for a number of them, a critical piece of I mean I wanted this EVDO card to work and I couldn’t find drivers for it. So I actually downgraded a bunch of them and my take is that if you’re running Vista Service Pack 2 and it works okay for you. Do not upgrade because that 120 bucks, buy more memory, buy flowers for your wife.

Leo Laporte Really?

David Spark By the way this has happened to me when I upgraded from XP to Vista, the number of things that didn’t work like drivers that didn’t work, I spent about 4-$500 upgrading hardware and software just to get back to normal again.

Jim Louderback Yeah, so there are a lot of things that they say; everything works; not everything works.

Leo Laporte You know you’re taking as exactly the same as my take was on Snow Leopard and I was like you, the one guy who said; oh God whatever you do, don’t’ upgrade to this.

Baratunde Thurston I said that. But I was mistaken.

Leo Laporte Did you? Oh you got to check?

Baratunde Thurston Check?! Direct deposits.

Leo Laporte Oh yeah, okay.

Baratunde Thurston No but I thought it was Snow Leopard causing a conflict, it was actually an app and I had to go into console and reload all…

Leo Laporte Oh it wasn’t. But you did see – that Apple admitted that for – they said it’s a very rare case but that for some people when you go to a guest account on Snow Leopard, login and then log back to your account …

Baratunde Thurston All your data’s gone, yeah. You get side kicked; I think is what it’s called now.

Leo Laporte Wow. We’re back, you’ve been side kicked.

David Spark By the way, why didn’t anyone see that one coming, the name of the company is “danger”.

Leo Laporte Okay, we’ve got two jokes now.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah, we’re tag teaming it.

Leo Laporte This is good, we can have a whole routine here and what about airplane peanuts – oh no I am sorry. Just make the plane out of the black box. That’s good. Okay danger side kick, let’s mention it. By the way whoever wrote the initial memo, it said; “oh we’ve lost all your data, we’re sorry.” I certainly hope they got fired because in fact Microsoft’s got all the data back.

David Spark Yeah and everyone.

Leo Laporte All of it or just most of it.

David Spark They well – they claimed it affected a very minor number of users, that’s what they say but again that data actually technically hasn’t come back so we don’t know yet.

Jim Louderback If I am not user, I am not minor.

Leo Laporte Yeah, right.

Jim Louderback I am major.

Leo Laporte Do you think as some said this is a blow to cloud-computing, Jim?

Jim Louderback No. it’s not a blow to cloud – it was a blow to Microsoft’s designs to be a cloud-computing leader.

Leo Laporte I don’t even blame Microsoft on this one, do you?

Jim Louderback I don’t know, I don’t know who I’d blame.

Leo Laporte I don’t even think people know that the danger, John you’ve got your speakers up or something because we’re getting.

John C. Dvorak Oh I am sorry.

Leo Laporte Yeah, yeah.

John C. Dvorak Here we go.

Leo Laporte Thank you. And John you’re the anti cloud-computing guy, I am sorry, Britney, shall I call him Britney?

John C. Dvorak I am not really anti cloud …

Jim Louderback No, I blame Britney Spears; cause remember she got her sidekick stolen.

Leo Laporte That’s right.

Jim Louderback They had to put all the security in and that’s why it went bad.

David Spark Wasn’t that Paris Hilton.?

Jim Louderback All right, Paris Hilton. I can’t decide. I can keep them straight.

Leo Laporte Go ahead John.

John C. Dvorak I just question the people who put all their trust in cloud computing. I mean this device has – you save all your contact information in the cloud and apparently it is not saved locally like it is on most the smart phones and it’s not backed up locally. I don’t have a problem with stuff happening where it’s more convenient in the cloud. Then by the way right after that episode happened where they lost all these data and then of course now they say they have recovered it. The Bay Area had a little rainstorm and most of us lost our Comcast connection for close – a lot of people in the Bay Area – for close to 24 hours solid.

Leo Laporte Ouch

John C. Dvorak And that’s like a cloud issue because now I can’t even get to the damn cloud.

Jim Louderback Flat line.

John C. Dvorak I did find out who all my neighbors are though with – that have open wi-fi.

Leo Laporte And DSL

John C. Dvorak This is an interesting thing to note. The number of open wi-fi connections especially in the Bay Area and I think throughout the country has dwindled to very, very few.

David Spark Yes, that’s true. It’s very, very hard to find one; what’s also odd, is I remember –

John C. Dvorak It’s sad. You are right. It’s sad because it was a community.

David Spark The number of networks that are physically available. I mean that are physically there.

Leo Laporte It was a community.

Baratunde Thurston Well it was. It was more of a parasitic community than anything else.

Jim Louderback But it’s still a community.

Baratunde Thurston But there are programs –

Jim Louderback Parasites have communities too. They need love and wi-fi and internet. There are programs out there that allow you to easily hack in. So, John you just needed to do a little preparation and download those programs.

Leo Laporte Only if they are using WEP. If they are using WPA2 you’re not going to hack in.

Jim Louderback It takes a while but you can get there.

Leo Laporte Oh, hacker Jim.

John C. Dvorak Don’t be silly, I don’t want to do that, a) the point is it used to be where everybody – because the routers came with the default that wide open and now they come with the default that you have to go through the installation process and give yourself a password.

Leo Laporte Hallelujah! Thank goodness.

David Spark So that annoys you that people are keeping information secure?

Leo Laporte Yeah, thank goodness, because – exactly, I am with you David. I mean, what’s wrong with security?

John C. Dvorak What if you don’t want it? What if you are like a free spirit?

Leo Laporte I was a – I used to be a free spirit.

Jim Louderback John C. Dvorak. Is your network open?

Leo Laporte That’s what John used to say to the college girls too.

Baratunde Thurston Come on, baby. Let me at your router, come on.

Leo Laporte Yeah, free spirit man, come on.

Jim Louderback I want to know John is your network open?

John C. Dvorak No.

Jim Louderback So there you go.

Leo Laporte Next, I would like to point out, I have three gentlemen in this room and maybe four using open wi-fi. We share.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah. I am totally doing illegal things right now.

John C. Dvorak You could drive right up to the front of your place, Leo. Park in the front and you go online and download porn.

Leo Laporte Yeah absolutely.

John C. Dvorak That’s what I do.

Leo Laporte Or share your music library because the RIAA will understand when I explain that it’s not me. It must have been somebody…

John C. Dvorak Well actually, that’s the advantage of having the open port because when the guys come knocking on the door. You say hey, I don’t know, it’s probably some drive-by downloader.

Leo Laporte Do you think that works John? My god! John C. Dvorak I think it might work in a court of law where they have somebody…

Leo Laporte Where somebody had some brains.

John C. Dvorak If you have a good lawyer.

Jim Louderback Well, plus it’s a – you get a jury of your peers and you know that jury. You pick them so they have no clue anything technology oriented. Anybody can snow them.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, you have to have a jury of your peer-to-peer.

Baratunde Thurston Oh no.

Leo Laporte Man, Baratunde, we’re putting your act together for tonight. You want to do it, you want to do a little geek set...

David Spark Well if you want just bad jokes.

John C. Dvorak Geek set, bad jokes.

David Spark Pure silence tonight, you will take all the material from tonight’s show.

Baratunde Thurston Thank you guys, you are so generous.

Leo Laporte That’s the beauty of doing this on the internet. You can’t hear people scream. It’s great.

Baratunde Thurston Except on the chat room.

Leo Laporte All right we’re going to take a little break, come back with more if can find more. If not we won’t come back with more, so if you’re not – well just, you know, look on your iPod if you see like another 20 minutes keep listening. Otherwise you might as well tune out now. I am never going to be able to get this sponsor back. we love

Baratunde Thurston Yes.

Leo Laporte Are you an Audible listener?

Baratunde Thurston I am a big – I have been with Audible from the beginning. Before Amazon, before like [inaudible] (1:04:02).

Leo Laporte Like 2001?

Jim Louderback Before there was [indiscernible] (01:04:02) audio?

Baratunde Thurston I was there.

Leo Laporte Before 2001?

Baratunde Thurston In the beginning. I am like the genesis of Audible.

Leo Laporte Really? Is that because you had a lot of commute time?

Baratunde Thurston I did and I used to clean bathrooms in college and that’s how I passed the time. It was the best paying job on campus.

Leo Laporte Did you work in Dubai? Was that a three year deal?

Baratunde Thurston Well done, well done. No, but – so, I would want to keep my mind occupied while I’m scrubbing other people’s toilets and I listened to so many books, so many books, big fan.

Leo Laporte But you got an education, didn’t you?

Baratunde Thurston From the books and from school.

Jim Louderback I wish I’d had Audible at school.

David Spark So you now have an association of all these books with toilets?

Baratunde Thurston Well, a lot of them, I smell bad things...

Leo Laporte Do you notice that when you drive like and you are listening to an audible book and then you –maybe if you rewind, you go, oh I was at that corner.

Baratunde Thurston Like geo-locating your spot in the books is definitely something.

Leo Laporte Is that weird?

Baratunde Thurston Yeah, I just said geo-locating your spot in the book, Jim. I saw you twinge at that.

Jim Louderback No it’s good. You put those words together really well. I could sit and listen to you do that all night.

Leo Laporte Again not on stage, please anything but on stage.

Baratunde Thurston I am a pro baby, I am a pro.

Leo Laporte is the place to go if you would like to take advantage of our special offer. Don’t use the Revision3 code, whatever you do. Do you have a Revision 3 code?

Jim Louderback I don’t think so.

Leo Laporte Don’t say so if you do, please.

Jim Louderback Use Leo’s code.

Leo Laporte It was so rude when Kevin Rose was in here and we were doing an ad and he gives out that Diggnation code, my...

Jim Louderback Completely inappropriate.

Leo Laporte You know shocking.

David Spark You should on to his show and use the TWiT code.

Leo Laporte Actually we are working that out. Jim and I are working that out. I want to be on Diggnation. A code fest, don’t use my code, don’t use my code!

Jim Louderback We will come up with joint codes. No we won’t that would be a nightmare.

David Spark I actually interviewed the guys at Salon who have Audible as a sponsor and the shows were having competitions of who would use their code more.

Leo Laporte Isn’t that funny.

David Spark But ultimately you should use the TWiT code.

Leo Laporte I will be honest with you. We get the money anyway because it’s not a – we don’t get paid per click. We just – we get paid. So use any darn code you want.

David Spark But this proves what they actually paying attention.

Leo Laporte That’s why they do it. They want to see does anybody listen to TWiT.

Jim Louderback Well the effectiveness of it. Yeah, measure effectiveness; it’s hard to measure ad effectiveness.

Leo Laporte You know what they do? They pit me – it’s like pitting my children against each other because each show has its own code right. And it’s like they are pitting me against my children.

Baratunde Thurston Divide and conquer.

David Spark Well now you can know which child to love more.

Baratunde Thurston And quantify that love with ad dollars. It’s the future man.

Leo Laporte Are you listening to any books right now Baratunde?

Baratunde Thurston Actually I am not right now. I’m in my podcast phase but, my favorite was...

Leo Laporte We like that by the way, it’s okay.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah, I love podcasts. But it depends on my mood. I have book moods and I have like podcast moods and I’ll go months at a time skipping both.

Leo Laporte I am listening to a book that Andy Ihnatko, your what is it? Your high school romance.

David Spark Junior – no, not high school. We went to junior high together Andy Ihnatko and I.

Leo Laporte That’s so wild, wow.

David Spark Yeah.

Baratunde Thurston Small world.

Leo Laporte As the kids say, how random is that.

David Spark It is very random. He – just to throw out completely random fact I created something when we were in junior high together called the A.I. Spy Club for no apparent reason.

Baratunde Thurston Nerd alert.

David Spark No, but it was a pure joke. It wasn’t an actual club or anything.

Leo Laporte Would you like to be in my club? I kind of lonely and I have got a club. You could be in it. The A.I. Spy Club.

Jim Louderback And you were spying on him?

David Spark No it was a whole series of joke things that I was creating and Andy was there.

Leo Laporte I am sure it was very cute.

David Spark It was adorable.

Jim Louderback Everybody got the joke, right?

David Spark Andy did. Well, that’s what was important.

Leo Laporte I am trying to find the book that I – that Andy recommended. It’s a history of Hollywood in the 70s. It’s – I am so loving it.

David Spark What. Oh, it’s on – there is a great book about comedy from the 70s called I think Comedy at the Edge.

Leo Laporte Oh I’ll have to read that.

David Spark Have you read that?

Baratunde Thurston I have not but I will check it out on your recommendation.

David Spark A lot of it takes place in New York.

Baratunde Thurston Great.

Leo Laporte The Tom Shales, I bet you have read this part. I think the Tom Shales book on Saturday Night Live is such a good audible book.

Baratunde Thurston Not yet.

Leo Laporte You got to read the history of Saturday Night Live. It’s so excelenté.

Baratunde Thurston My favorite Audible’s the Company: a History of the CIA

Leo Laporte I have read that, love it.

Baratunde Thurston Incredible and the entire Dark Tower series by Stephen King. It’s amazing.

Leo Laporte You know, and that was the one he didn’t put his name on originally.

Baratunde Thurston No, the first he did. The Gunslinger was the first one by Stephen King and –

Leo Laporte Okay I thought he used the pseudonym for those because – no okay all right. Those are very good. John has put up – we’ve put John to sleep, he has put up a stuffed animal now.

John C. Dvorak What?

Leo Laporte He is flipping his burger or something.

Baratunde Thurston Really easy to talk to though.

Leo Laporte Yeah it is kind of cute. Was he in the A.I. Spy Club?

Jim Louderback Do you think John will have a new outfit?

David Spark What, John? I don’t know.

Jim Louderback I am sure he has got some sponsors [indiscernible] (01:08:33).

David Spark Come on John. Keep it up.

Leo Laporte The book is by Peter Biskind. It is called Easy Riders, Raging Bulls: How the Sex, Drugs and Rock 'N' Roll Generation Saved Hollywood and it’s about Nicholson and Robert Altman and it is such a cool book. I am really enjoying it. What’s been great is I have been going to Netflix and renting the movies as they talk, so it’s is Bonnie and Clyde, and McCabe and Mrs. Miller and MASH and Nashville. Really a fascinating book. Easy Rider, of course the Godfather, Chinatown. Talks about the stories that behind – the stories behind the directors, did you know that George Lucas worked for Francis Ford Coppola. Coppola really made him his protégé.

David Spark This is actually – I don’t know if it is based on that book but there is a series talking about the same thing that the independent film channel made on this very same topic.

Leo Laporte It’s just a great subject. Probably based on this. Biskind interviewed everybody to get this book and it is a wonderful audio listen and I highly encourage you 23 minutes – I mean, sorry 23 hours and 41 minutes and thanks Andy Ihnatko for this recommendation. I immediately downloaded it and I am listening to it now and I am loving every minute of it. Easy Riders, Raging Bulls: How the Sex, Drugs and Rock 'N' Roll Generation Saved Hollywood. Now you can get this for free. In fact you can two books for free. If you go to, you get the Platinum account. That’s a two-book a month account and of course your first month’s free, your first two books are free and even if you decide not to stick around, you get to keep those books. So I think you are going to really enjoy this one, but there are 60,000 other titles you get to choose from in every category science fiction, romance, erotica, nothing like an audio book in erotica.

David Spark Well, it all depends on who is reading it.

Baratunde Thurston ‘How to Baste your Meat’ by John C. Dvorak, it’s powerful story of a man and his brush; oil soaked brush.

Jim Louderback Leo, when do you have time to listen to audio books? Because you don’t commute anywhere.

Leo Laporte That’s the – oh! Oh, I’m so glad you asked Jim Louderback because it’s true, I got into Audible when I did commute.

Jim Louderback You had the whole [ph] 8 – (1:10:43) I mean I just drove it up [indiscernible] (1:10:44).

Leo Laporte It was an awful commute, every day.

Jim Louderback I can’t believe you did that.

Leo Laporte And the traffic. You did it on Sunday.

Jim Louderback I remember you would like, you went to Cupertino for a while.

Leo Laporte You remember that.

Jim Louderback Yes. Yes, like how did you do that?

Leo Laporte That was well, Audible. Literally it was audio books, it saved my life. But even now because I got hooked on audio books, I listen at the gym. There is an hour a day, right? I listen when I’m doing the dishes; there is about five minutes a week.

Baratunde Thurston They have machines that can do that.

Leo Laporte Well, you know I like my books. It’s time for my stories, let me wash the dishes – when you are gardening, housework, anytime – I actually – believe it or not volunteer for carpools, volunteer to drive the kids places, because I want to listen to audio books. You get hooked on these things and it’s really – and that’s the point of audio. Boys it just makes it easier for you to get those things done that you have to do and still learn something and still enjoy., try it today; you’re going to love it. Baratunde says…

Baratunde Thurston They are great. Was that good?

Leo Laporte That was so good. That was so good. Oh man, you and me baby, we got a team-thing going on here.

Baratunde Thurston It’s like we’ve done this before.

Jim Louderback It’s like a frosted flakes commercial.

Leo Laporte Have you ever met this – they’re great! Let’s see what the costume change has to offer from John C. Dvorak.

Jim Louderback All right, much better.

Baratunde Thurston It’s still a weird color.

Jim Louderback No, because now he’s sort of…

Baratunde Thurston Saturated.

Jim Louderback Yes, so saturated.

John C. Dvorak Let me un-saturate this thing.

Leo Laporte He puts the Muppet filter –

Baratunde Thurston It’s like – it’s eating the other colors in the frame.

Leo Laporte It is. It’s Richmond blue, by the way who is Richmond?

John C. Dvorak This is the University of Richmond in Richmond, Virginia. They were the [ph] 1HH (1:12:22) champs last year in the football season. And, I by the way, as people know I like to collect these things.

Baratunde Thurston We’re going to find out…

John C. Dvorak Eventually they’re going to go into a bar.

Baratunde Thurston …that he is making millions of dollars on hoodies.

John C. Dvorak Richmond Spiders. They should have one with the big giant spider.

Leo Laporte You’re kidding their mascot is a spider?

John C. Dvorak The spider, yeah.

Leo Laporte That’s terrible.

Jim Louderback Did you buy that or did they give it to you?

Baratunde Thurston Yeah, disclosure.

John C. Dvorak They did not give it to me. A fan of mine sent it to me.

David Spark So you have to disclose that you have fans.

John C. Dvorak I have a fan and he sent me this, and by the way...

David Spark So you have one fan that sends all the sweatshirts?

John C. Dvorak …this team is one of the best coached teams that you’ve ever seen play, they are really amazing.

Leo Laporte Hey John, Bill Cosby just called, he wants his shirt back. Ha ha ha! Lousy joke, lousy joke.

David Spark Some of – truly the oldest worst jokes have been told on today’s show.

Baratunde Thurston But some of the best ones too. It’s a very volatile mix.

Leo Laporte You never know, you never know what you are going to get, it could be a chestnut. It could be something fresh. Leo, look even the chat room’s – even the chat room is heckling me, Leo joke sale. You guys are cold.

Baratunde Thurston How quickly they turn.

Leo Laporte Oh! Man. John, are you still there? We just lost the image. Are you working on your camera is that what’s going on?

John C. Dvorak Yeah, I was just fixing it so it does not have the problems you guys are complaining about.

David Spark Would you – it’s just overexposed

Jim Louderback I liked that look.

Leo Laporte Yeah. It’s his – it’s his new hairdo.

John C. Dvorak You get anything back or do I have to restart?

Leo Laporte I think you might have to restart.

Jim Louderback We’re coming.

Leo Laporte Ken from Chicago says this is Leo’s comic cottage cavalcade of computer comedy coming right at you!

Jim Louderback Sponsored, thankfully not.

Leo Laporte Not. It’s all Bob Hiles (1:14:01) fault if he hadn’t given me a golden mike…

David Spark I think you might call this week from the sponsor saying –

John C. Dvorak I love that golden mine.

David Spark Could you stop telling jokes?

Leo Laporte Oh! I get that call every week. What are you talking about, it’s nothing new. Any other stories, I mean it seems like there is so much to talk about.

John C. Dvorak I thought that it was a – I thought the month – the month, the week was terrible, it was boring.

Leo Laporte It’s boring.

David Spark No, but then something broke this weekend that I thought was kind of interesting. This women wrote this “harrowing tale of having your son taken away by TSA agents.” And…

John C. Dvorak Yes, it’s bogus though.

David Spark And it’s very – yes, but what happened was literally within hours the TSA posted the video of the actual security video to show that lo and behold her child wasn’t taken away. And they all – there was a whole slew of sort of competing comments, but in general it was a good response by the TSA, a quick and swift one. She responded, people posted all these “you are a liar” comments to her blog, of which she removed all the comments on her blog post. But, there is one thing that the video was edited at one point in the TSA video, so…

Baratunde Thurston The part where they kidnap the kid.

David Spark Well, nonetheless – no.

John C. Dvorak And beat the kid.

Baratunde Thurston Yes, they cut that part right out, yes.

David Spark No, but the part where she claims her child was taken away is actually shown and it wasn’t taken away. So we are not clear on that one edit point.

Leo Laporte Right.

Baratunde Thurston So what was her motivation? Do we know her story at all?

David Spark She is literally and incredibly passionate blogger who writes incredibly melodramatic mommy blog stories and it’s…

Leo Laporte Who is she, do you know?

David Spark In fact I wrote about it on my – it’s the top post on my blog

John C. Dvorak It’s also on my blog.

Jim Louderback One of the mommy bolggers.

John C. Dvorak

Leo Laporte Oh! Now we are…

Baratunde Thurston I’d put it on my blog too if that’s what we are doing.

Leo Laporte Competing blogs…

Jim Louderback It’s not on my blog.

David Spark I tell you the – the name of her blog is called and where she talks about – where this is an image of her holding a bottle of milk and a glass of wine and she admits in her bio that well…

Leo Laporte She puts wine in the milk.

David Spark She is not an alcoholic but she likes to drink wine to relax herself, which is fine, which is totally fine, but this is kind of the image that she is portraying on her blog.

Jim Louderback So you’re saying that are you alluding of the fact that you think that she is like a crazed alcoholic and that’s why she wrote this. Is that what you are saying David Spark?

Baratunde Thurston That’s what I heard.

David Spark Well she also keeps emergency Xanax with her at all times.

Leo Laporte You know what let me tell you, have you ever been a mommy?

David Spark I have not been a mother and I don’t think I’m ever going to be a mother.

Leo Laporte Let me tell you something, nothing unusual to any of that, that just mommy life and…

David Spark I understand but it’s a very, very melodramatic story and maybe part of it did happen. And again it was her viewpoint of it and had [inaudible] (1:16:46).

Leo Laporte Oh my God, she is got tattoos too, David.

David Spark That’s fun.

Baratunde Thurston A mom with tattoos?

Leo Laporte Oh, my God.

John C. Dvorak What next?

Baratunde Thurston Can I try to bring up a possible news and like tech angle on this

Leo Laporte Yes.

Baratunde Thurston Which is – you went to the real time web summit right? And I was supposed to be there, didn’t go there but we are entering this age of really high velocity real time information without a competing high velocity real time analysis to go along with it.

Leo Laporte No, in fact it is the opposite, the faster the information…

Baratunde Thurston In a thousand directions and we process them real time without full info to begin with like as events unfold and we’ve already judged how it’s going to be concluded.

David Spark But what it is, is actually a channel of programming. As I see you have your IRC channel which is actually…

Leo Laporte Real time.

David Spark Real time, but it’s actually kind of a channel of programming, I mean information is happening alongside this program as well. But what’s happening with the real time web with the fact that people are using key words to be able track a story whatever they are on, they don’t need to physically be in one chat room that you can all of a sudden see a story build over time and this is what a lot of Web 2.0 is doing; in fact you know what the Intellopedia is, you know the thing that the intelligence community uses. They use that purposefully as sort of big breaking adventure happening that information that’s being gathered from multiple points at the same time can be collected in one space being a Wiki, in the Intellopedia’s case…

Leo Laporte I think there is a role for both. The thing that’s – I liken all of this to the Internet nervous system, that we now have kind of a sensorium that is much larger than our personal sensorium. It’s kind of a more of a global sensorium and things like Twitter give us feelers everywhere. But just as – you have to think about what you get through your sensorium before you leap to a conclusion, we have to learn, just because it’s in print doesn’t mean it’s somehow valid or magically true so we’re just learning. But it is ultimately beneficial.

John C. Dvorak A lot of stuff – Right, Leo you’re exactly right. We’ve already had in print is examples of – many examples of bogus information that way. So we’re just getting a new kind of bogus information.

Leo Laporte Having time doesn’t necessarily make it more accurate. But I am with you that this is exactly what we’re seeing, is these attention swarms moving so fast, but I think we just have judge it in a little bit different way than we are used to judging it and understand that this is the buzz of the initial reception of the information. This is the sensorium going bzzzzzzz.

Baratunde Thurston Yes, and I’m not saying it’s bad at all. There is a lot of value in it, it’s fun, it’s great for comedy, it’s great for business, great for all the aspects of humanity that we’ve had with tools and without. But it’s different.

Leo Laporte It’s very different; imagine if all of a sudden – it’s almost like a comic book. You know you’re like a comic book hero, all of a sudden your senses were suddenly extended globally and you’re suddenly hearing everything and seeing everything at once. Initially, we had that initial reaction a few years ago, it’s all too much. Now, we’re getting better at filtering it; we’re using intermediaries like Twitter, curating. So we’re starting – we still are seeing much more and much more instantaneously which I think we’re dealing with it pretty well in fact.

Jim Louderback You know it just comes down to common sense. I mean where is the common sense in all of this? You hear about this stuff, like there is some kid riding around in a frikking balloon, I mean come on.

Leo Laporte Yes, well, and anybody with some sense would look at the balloon and say that’s impossible, you know.

David Spark But this human behavior being accelerated, we’ve all been reacting like, you know, the Jessica in the well story. Had the Jessica in the well story happened with this, it would have been even more accelerated, even more insanity.

Leo Laporte But eventually we are going to get dampered down is what I’m saying. Is eventually we are going to understand it better and it’s going to happen in a way that we deal with it better. And in the long run, I think this expanded sensorium, this nervous system is to our benefit. I think – it’s one of the ways that good quality content will get surfaced faster and better. It’s one of the ways we’ll learn more, we’ll be able to communicate this whole issue I was talking about learning about learning about the Arab world unmediated. That’s what this sensorium is going to do. This – it [ph] dis-immediates (01:20:49) you.

John C. Dvorak It’s going to result in Hitler.

[Multiple Speakers] (01:20:56)

Baratunde Thurston We did it! We reached Godwin’s law! We’re done.

Leo Laporte Right there we got to Hitler. Wow, that was good. I’m going to mark that. That was at one minute...

John C. Dvorak 16:35 and 13 seconds.

Leo Laporte One hour and 36 minutes into the TWiT show.

Baratunde Thurston If it’s successful and the good wins out over the base then we will know more about what's happening in Iran, what's happening in Burma, what's happening…

Leo Laporte We are human, so we are a mix of good and bad, aren’t we?

Baratunde Thurston Right, but we’ll also learn more about the junk that we like the taste of.

Jim Louderback And it’s also a…

Leo Laporte That’s a good point.

Baratunde Thurston Meets fresh celebrity needs.

Leo Laporte No, that’s a good point because when we’ve been given the infinite feast of food, what does our body chose, sugar and fat, and it’s killing us, right? So maybe this – maybe we are going to kill us ourselves with information.

Jim Louderback There is a continuum. Look, there are always there are going to be a group of people, and I don’t know what percentage it is who are going to spend all their time going “oh my god, see what happens” I mean these are the people who read the star…

Leo Laporte The Chris Pearler type? (01:21:41)

Jim Louderback Yeah, right, exactly.

Leo Laporte You just did a very good [ph] Chris Pearler (01:21:45) imitation. He’s vibrating. I say that with love [multiple speakers] (01:21:50).

Jim Louderback And it’ll filter out. There will be those people who – five of the six things that you forwarded to me ended up not being true, I don’t trust you anymore. And so we’re going to have these trust systems on the people that are in our social graph as well as we do as a journalist. So I trust Dvorak is going to be interesting and controversial, I trust this person is going to be accurate, I trust this person is always going to be wrong. We are going to do the same thing. Right now we do that with journalists, we do the same thing with people –with our social graph.

Leo Laporte Yeah, that’s the curation that you were talking about Baratunde.

David Spark Here is the major problem with real time web is most of what's being moderated or indexed is what is the explicit real time web, what we choose to publish via Twitter and what not. There is the implicit which is what we are all clicking on but not necessarily publishing or searching on which we are not publishing publicly and that – once you get that into the system and there is actually One Ride is one of the search engines that’s doing this, you will have a better clearer idea of what people are interested in.

Leo Laporte It’s like watch what I say and not what I do.

David Spark What I’m saying is there is only a small percentage of people that are publishing. So it’s not a clear view of what the entire public thinks what's going on. If only 10% of the public is publishing, which is one of the estimates, then you are only getting a view of 10% of the public.

Leo Laporte It’s more though than you got when mainstream media ruled the roost and you got 1/10th and 1%.

Jim Louderback Right, true.

Baratunde Thurston You just have to figure out who to trust. And you know what, yeah, 10% of the people are out there, but there are still people that you can trust and people you can’t.

David Spark What it is, it’s different kinds of filter. For example you are a filter yourself, Jim, as is John, as everyone in this room and there are people that trust you.

Baratunde Thurston I like the way you say Jim like an accusation.

David Spark Like you Jim, you ignorant slut. I think Jim is pejorative. Jim is also ignorant slut, but that’s beside…

Jim Louderback But I make a great filter.

David Spark But this is another kind of a filter. He is a real time web filters that are out there as well. So people will use both. They won’t just rely on one or the other.

Leo Laporte Maybe it’s – John is the native pessimist, I’m the native optimist, that’s why we’ve always made a good team where we’re the opposite sides of the – and the optimist about this. I think that this is in the long-run this is almost an evolutionary step. I mean I think this is very powerful stuff.

Baratunde Thurston It’s like evolution…

John C. Dvorak Concentration camps.

Leo Laporte Filter, filter, perfect time for a filter.

David Spark Going back to the muppets, he’s the muppet up in the skybox [multiple speakers] (01:24:18).

Leo Laporte The old guys up in the balcony. He kind of almost is in the balcony too.

John C. Dvorak It’s where I’m headed.

Leo Laporte I hate this stuff, it’s all bad. How’s the Tech Grouch doing? Is it a huge, huge hit John C. Dvorak?

John C. Dvorak The Tech Grouch has got a bunch of followers and we are just kind of producing shows on and off. Again this is really basically a 30 second commercial. And, but it seems to have a lot of people that think it’s hilarious for some reason. But I got some – I’m going to bring in a new character, the Tech Grouch’s wife.

Leo Laporte Is that Mimi or is it going to be you too?

John C. Dvorak No, no, no, something which…

Leo Laporte I think cross-dressing John, it’s the secret…

John C. Dvorak It’s going to be extremely, extremely offensive, let’s put it that way.

Leo Laporte Yeah, baby, I love that.

David Spark By the way, Waldorf and Statler.

Leo Laporte Waldorf and Statler thank you very much.

David Spark Thank the chatroom.

Leo Laporte FTW as they say, as the kids say today.

David Spark Yeah, I can’t keep up with the kids.

Leo Laporte Those acronyms are just flying fast and furious. You know, we’ve got the TV on and Fox News was showing a Brazilian helicopter crash. And Joy and, I’m sorry, Cynthia just immediately gravitated to that and we lost our audience you know.

Jim Louderback Oh no.

Baratunde Thurston Two people.

Leo Laporte Yeah, two people. Our audience of two, they are watching a helicopter crash, which just shows that there are things that grab you and you cannot turn away. And this is where the risk of this hive mind is, is that we get fixated on kids in wells or boys in balloons or that kind of thing.

David Spark They have to be either up in the air or down in the ground.

Jim Louderback One or the other.

Baratunde Thurston Kid at his desk doing his homework, oh my god, look at that, it’s amazing!

Leo Laporte In my house that would be an amazing, let me tell you. Guys this has been so much fun, Baratunde is performing tonight at the Punch Line, that means Sunday night.

Baratunde Thurston And tomorrow we are doing a watch party for the future of TV show at Jillians at the Metreon

Leo Laporte Oh that’s great.

Baratunde Thurstom 7:00 to 11:00 pm, it’s going to be great. It’s a fun show, it’s about the future of adventure, popular sciences – future of. Had to plug that…

Leo Laporte So if you are in San Francisco…

Baratunde Thurston Or if you are not, planes can get there. So everybody fly…

Leo Laporte You have time.

Baratunde Thurston San Francisco, 24 hours.

Leo Laporte The 19th.

Jim Louderback It’s a great pool whole too so you can play pool while you’re there.

Leo Laporte We’ve had meetings in Jillians, we Love Jillians.

David Spark And they’ve got some of the largest screens I’ve ever seen in any single bar.

Leo Laporte I love that. You know that by the way is going to be in the next TWiT studio , that's what I’m doing is a giant 40-foot screen behind me.

David Spark And it’s only going to be playing basketball.

Leo Laporte Yes, all the time, basketball all the time.

Jim Louderback Somebody going to donate though?

Leo Laporte No, I’ll buy it because I’m made of money.

Jim Louderback You’re gonna go to CBS and walk it out the door with you.

John C. Dvorak Screw you Jim Louderback, screw you.

Leo Laporte Screw you. Baratunde is at or @baratunde on Twitter. And you can catch him also a comedy every Thursday night in New York City at Sages…

Baratunde Thurston Sage Theater.

Leo Laporte Sage Theater. It’s really nice to have you. Look for him in the [indiscernible](01:27:11)

Baratunde Thurston Thank you so much. Actually it’s been a life dream. I’m not even kidding. I love the show. And I’m just kissing your butt a little bit, but not just. You do a great show. Good guests. Thank you so much for having me.

Leo Laporte Standing offer – any time you want to be on the show, I’d like to have you.

Baratunde Thurston All right, I’ll be back in an hour.

Leo Laporte Can you wait till next week? Jim Louderback of course is the CEO of Revision3 and an old friend from TechTV, it’s really great to have you in.

Jim Louderback Yeah, first time [indiscernible] (01:27:36)…

Leo Laporte You’ve never been here.

Jim Louderback I’ve never been here. It’s so awesome - I had to go up and I peeked into Coleen’s Chamber of Doom up there…

Leo Laporte Oh, did you go look at her lab? It’s all scary, isn’t it?

Jim Louderback No, it’s cool.

Leo Laporte She is an inventor. That’s really what she is. She has just done a great job inventing. We have – that's Streamasaurus is our Skype, I’m sorry Skypesaurus is our Skype machine, Streamasaurus is our stream machine. And this is SwitchZilla.

Jim Louderback SwitchZilla, that’s what you call that gadget – I didn’t know the name.

Leo Laporte SwitchZilla is our VT5, our new switcher. So yeah, she is amazing, she’s building great stuff. Thank you Jim. Anything you want to plug what's going on latest thing from Revision3?

Jim Louderback We got a new sitcom called Web Zeroes that is three guys in Houston who want to be web celebrities do a show, a sitcom about trying to be web celebrities. First episode they try and do a podcast much like this one.

Leo Laporte I’ve been waiting, I’m so glad you are doing this for somebody to do episodic fiction in a podcast form. So that’s very exciting. I think that’s breakthrough.

Jim Louderback And it’s very meta about trying to be what you are.

Leo Laporte I guess, I mean Felicia Day has kind of done that.

Jim Louderback Yeah, a little bit With the Guild.

Leo Laporte With the Guild, which I love. But I think that this is what I want to see more of. This is – that’s exciting. And you guys have the resources to do it.

Jim Louderback Check it out, Web Zeroes.

Leo Laporte Web Zeroes. David Spark is not a PR flak so don’t say he is. Or he’ll have to be in your show too.

David Spark God forbid.

Leo Laporte God forbid.

David Spark Correct.

Leo Laporte And where will you be appearing tonight? The Chuckle Hut?

David Spark Tonight I’m speaking in front of the National Association of Counties actually further up North in Sonoma Baltimore and speaking an event in Paolo Alto.

Leo Laporte They got a great acronym though, NAC…

David Spark NACo. By the way, I just got to quote one thing. I got the – they did a survey to see how ‘savvy’ they were in social media. And one of the people said, “well, we are very technically advanced; I’m proud to say that everyone of our offices has a fax machine that they keep on 24 hours a day”

Leo Laporte Oh my goodness.

Jim Louderback They weren’t joking?

David Spark No, no. And that’s the crowd I’m going to be working with.

Leo Laporte Okay, I’d leave out the Twitter jokes, just a thought. John C. Dvorak, the man of a thousand disguises is at He is the Tech Grouch. I’m sorry, no he is not, it’s some other guy with a beard that sounds just like him.

John C. Dvorak Looks a little like me, but is not me.

Leo Laporte If John were in ZZ Top.

Jim Louderback He didn’t change his hat though.

Leo Laporte No, always a Yankees fan. They are going to four, you are going to win in four?

John C. Dvorak Probably.

Leo Laporte You know, isn’t it – isn’t like FOX’s dream come true a Yankees – Dodgers. I mean, Yankees…

John C. Dvorak The Dodgers are not going to make it.

Leo Laporte They are not going to make it?

John C. Dvorak No, I don’t think so. They haven’t got the chops. I think Philadelphia is going beat them.

Leo Laporte You’re breaking Rupert Murdoch’s heart right now.

John C. Dvorak You are right. It would have been the dream come true. That’s what everyone wants to see. But I don’t think it’s going to happen.

Leo Laporte Hey. I’d love to see the Phillies. That would be awesome. Thank you, John as always. Have I plugged everyone?

John C. Dvorak If you’ve got the left out, that’s okay. It’s in

Leo Laporte This guy is really good and witty. Did I tell you who is media savvy?

Jim Louderback Yeah, yes.

Leo Laporte Mr. Media savvy. No, we have to say that because it’s a drinking game and if he doesn’t say that then we, people go home sober…

Baratunde Thurston So, where is my whisky?

Leo Laporte I got it right here. I want to thank you for joining us. As we mentioned maybe I didn’t. I gave a speech, at Blog World on Friday to announce that we are going to start doing video. Jim, please don’t hate me. But we are going to start doing video.

Jim Louderback Why would I hate you?

Leo Laporte Well, because at one point, people are always trying to stir up trouble – at one point, I, Kevin – I think it was Kevin and I said, you do video, I’ll do audio, stick to audio and sure that was good enough. But now my reach needs to expand. And so…..

Jim Louderback People demanded.

Leo Laporte People demanded.

Jim Louderback It’s all about getting more people to watch and listen to what we are doing.

Leo Laporte It is really.

Jim Louderback It is not like when I was at PC WEEK, and there was InfoWorld and we were battling for the same audience.

Leo Laporte You are right.

Baratunde Thurston We need to grow the audience, everything we can do helps.

Leo Laporte At this point we are such a nascent industry. So there’s no competition, my god. But we are going to start doing video downloads of the show. Keep watching for that, we have partnered with a company Mediafly that is going to put all of – we do every show in video. You can watch this show for instance live every Sunday after at 6 PM Eastern, 3 PM Pacific, 2200 UTC at But then it’s just kind of ends there with the live stream and what we are doing now is recording these, we are going to edit them, we are going to put them up on the iTunes of course as a normal podcast. But I think point of access is really important. So for that reason we’ve done this deal with Mediafly and they are going put these shows – you are going to able – eventually in a couple of weeks watch live streams on all these platforms but they will also put downloadable versions of the shows on the Roku box, on the popcorn player, Yahoo! TV, the Palm Pre, the iPhone and many other platforms to come. The idea is anywhere you are, you’ll have an icon. You can push that button and you’ll see the TWiT icon. You can see our shows. And by the way I know Revision3 is doing that with Roku. Mediafly is agnostics. So it’s not just – we are going to be the launch partner but every video podcast in the world will be available soon on almost all TVs.

Jim Louderback It’s awesome.

Leo Laporte And this is the breakthrough I think.

Jim Louderback Anywhere, anytime, any device, any service, put it on the big screen and people will watch.

Leo Laporte And we’ll call that the future, the future. I said this at Blog World. I said we are no longer the new media, we’re just the media and we are coming to get you. We know where you live.

Jim Louderback We have your number.

Baratunde Thurston We do - the IP address are pretty specific so as a matter of fact we do.

David Spark There used to be a time when online banner ads were considered like new media advertizing and now that’s considered traditional advertising.

Leo Laporte Salesmen will call. It is. Isn’t that interesting? Yeah. So we are very excited about that. We hope you will continue to subscribe in any form because we love having somebody listen to us natter on endlessly. I am Leo Laporte. Thanks for joining us. Another TWiT is in the can.

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