TWiT 224/Transcript

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Episode 224


This transcript is provided by our friends at Pods in Print

Leo Laporte Bandwidth for this WEEK in TECH is provided by AOL Music and where you can get free MP3s, exclusive interviews, and more. This is TWiT, this WEEK in TECH, Episode 224 for December 7, 2009, An Enormous Package You'll Never Use.

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Leo Laporte This is TWiT; this WEEK in TWiT, a show that covers –

Baratunde Thurston That's recursive.

Leo Laporte It is a re-cursive show, a show that covers itself endlessly like – like, what is the worm, Baratunde, eating his tail? No, I think it’s [ph] Orobus (01:49).

Baratunde Thurston I don’t know. I know what you're talking about but [ph] I don't know its name (01:53).

Leo Laporte You know what I am talking about man?

Baratunde Thurston Yeah.

Leo Laporte Are you with me there? Baratunde Thurston is here. He is of course the host of Popular Science on Discovery. Is that right? Did I say that right?

Baratunde Thurston Popular Science’s Future Of.

Leo Laporte Future Of, I forgot the Future Of. He is the Future Of New Media; let’s put it that way, how about that?

Baratunde Thurston Aw, thanks.

Leo Laporte Also here, kind of I would say a partner in crime, Heather Gold.

Heather Gold Hey.

Leo Laporte She is a comic, she is Jewish, she is a lesbian, and she is drunk. So I think it’s going to be a great show. And to keep us all well-grounded, John C. Dvorak. What are you wearing there? Oh it looks like a nice scarf, a little polka dot scarf there.

John C. Dvorak

Leo Laporte Sorry, I didn't mean to wake you, John.

John C. Dvorak No, these are actually three, this is interesting. I just saw these on the landing here, it's three ties, actually.

Leo Laporte He is wearing three ties.

John C. Dvorak I think I'm going to start making that a fashion.

Leo Laporte I felt bad when I saw the man with three heads until I met a man with three ties. That doesn't work – that proverb doesn't work when you tell it that way.

John C. Dvorak So we can all expect this to be a fascinating show.

Leo Laporte Well, it’s good so far. I don’t know about you but I am having a blast. So get this, and you are not going to – we talked a couple of episodes about – ago about my FarmVille problem.

Heather Gold Your FarmVille problem.

Leo Laporte I have a FarmVille problem and I…

Baratunde Thurston He is addicted.

Leo Laporte I was addicted but I gave it up.

Heather Gold I thought it was going to be like you needed – some…

Leo Laporte I need some cows.

Heather Gold Pharmaceutical assistance.

Leo Laporte Does anybody have some cows?

Heather Gold So you can really deliver (03:26).

Leo Laporte Have you ever played FarmVille on Facebook?

Heather Gold [ph] I haven't played it. This is Mark Pincus' deal? (03:27).

Leo Laporte Yes.

Heather Gold All right.

Leo Laporte He makes hundreds of millions of dollars a year by [ph] suck – it's (03:33) Zynga. Sucking people into these stupid yet somehow bizarrely addictive games.

Heather Gold I think animals – it's pretty much you can’t lose if you do anything with animals.

Leo Laporte It has got animals and fruit.

Heather Gold And, oh well, fruits or food.

Leo Laporte Food or fruit. So you can raise artichokes, you can raise beets, you can raise wheat, rice.

Heather Gold Let’s say that’s a winner, right there.

Leo Laporte And the way he makes money is you pay him cash for virtual [ph] farm bucks (03:58).

Heather Gold Stop!

Leo Laporte So you can buy a fence

Heather Gold I'm all about virtual stuff, I want cookies, you can – we're doing it right now with our shows; virtual, fun little things to give each other.

Leo Laporte So, I've kind of mocked this whole thing, but I did, I literally, I took FarmVille off my Facebook page because I was –

Heather Gold [ph] You know what Mel Brooks – (04:15).

John C. Dvorak Cold turkey.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I'm going cold turkey, and I miss it, I miss it. And I wonder how the artichokes are doing.

Heather Gold Mel Brooks' 2000-year-old man always said [ph] we'd mock the thing we are to be, (04:21) Leo, you mock the farm, you are FarmVille.

Leo Laporte I am FarmVille. There may be a TWiTville in my future, however, get this – for all the noise and attention Twitter gets, FarmVille is bigger then Twitter, than all of Twitter. A Facebook application…

Baratunde Thurston As measured how?

Leo Laporte They have 69 – get this, this is how addictive this sucker is. They have 69 million active players. It’s the largest Facebook app by a factor 2 to 1 over the next highest competitor, daily active players 26.5 million. It’s not surprising because in order for you to do this – if you plant artichokes, you got to come back tomorrow or they turn brown and shrivel up.

Baratunde Thurston Okay, see here is the thing, we used to have – be a nation in the U.S. of farmers and agricultural people, I think it's less than...

Heather Gold Right, [ph] tell it (05:15).

Baratunde Thurston One percent now and if just a percent of the people playing FarmVille with such dedication were to go to their rooftops or their window sills or their front or backyards and actually plant a real thing.

Heather Gold Thank you.

Baratunde Thurston Oh we'd be so much better off.

Leo Laporte I really thought you were going to say and shout, 'I am mad as hell and I am not going to take it anymore!' But that’s a better idea.

Heather Gold You put that into planting an artichoke. I fully support Baratunde, and then, you know, you save yourself some money.

Leo Laporte You mean plant an actual artichoke?

Heather Gold Yes! A real thing thing that grows in the ground.

Leo Laporte No, no, no to get dirt under your fingernails and there’s snails. I don’t want to do that.

John C. Dvorak Yeah. Welcome to the new America.

Baratunde Thurston The virtual America, [ph] we're going to have an entire country of virtual – (05:54).

Heather Gold John, but John you are old enough to remember real farmers, you remember those?

John C. Dvorak Remember? I am one!

Leo Laporte I think that’s a joke there somewhere. FarmVille is – okay number two is Causes which I also have on my Facebook page, then Cafe World, Happy Aquarium, Mafia Wars – Zynga, FishVille – Zynga, Pet Society, Texas Holdem Poker – Zynga, YoVille for people of your color.

Heather Gold What?

Leo Laporte Not you. YoVille, YoVille they decided that FarmVille might not appeal to African-Americans and other urban…

Heather Gold Because they didn't farm.

Leo Laporte Because other urban types and they made YoVille.

Baratunde Thurston Do you just say Yo all day? Yo!

Leo Laporte I don’t know, and then – so these are the top 10 apps and so with 69 million active – monthly active players, that is estimated to be bigger, nobody knows how big Twitter is. I think it’s much bigger than the active user group at Twitter.

Heather Gold That’s...

Leo Laporte 69 million.

Heather Gold That’s a lot.

Leo Laporte There is only 300 million people in the U.S.

Heather Gold Really?

Leo Laporte 69 million.

Heather Gold It feels so much bigger when I am on the internet.

Leo Laporte Was that racist for me to say that YoVille?

Baratunde Thurston Oh, absolutely, but it was cute.

Leo Laporte Yeah, it was cute racist.

Baratunde Thurston It was like confusing, cute racism, it wasn't malicious.

Leo Laporte Well the confusion was I pushed the button for Heather's picture, that’s what [ph] really confused me (07:16).

Baratunde Thurston It's because you were trying to challenge the stereotypes.

Leo Laporte Exactly, I was breaking down – exactly. Breaking down [ph] the fences (07:24).

John C. Dvorak So Leo, you talked about this a few weeks ago and people are starting to bellyache now that you are just moaning, we are not talking tech.

Leo Laporte Okay, not tech, let me think, not tech. it’s an application on a website that is the biggest website of all time, the biggest application on that website, how is this not tech?

Heather Gold They want it to sound less human and more like…

John C. Dvorak It’s not tech.

Leo Laporte They want me to talk about motherboards…

Heather Gold They want circuits.

Leo Laporte And processors.

Heather Gold They want, well they…

Leo Laporte They don’t like touchy-feely.

Heather Gold They want, like an accelerator stuff being exploded [ph] in atoms and (07:57) and stuff like that, am I right? Am I right, is that what you guys want?

Leo Laporte We got two guys here from the Argonne National Laboratories. They are engineers, they are…

Heather Gold I want [ph] de-fracking (08:06).

Leo Laporte [ph] Did you enjoy FarmVille (08:05) or would you rather I held a soldering iron and I've got clippers and now I am going to re-wire my microphone while we do the show, now is that tech for you?

Baratunde Thurston [Indiscernible] (08:23).

John C. Dvorak It’s tech the same way that discussing a YouTube video that happens to be about something that’s not tech is tech, because the game itself is not tech.

Leo Laporte All right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right – I am all right, all right, all right.

Heather Gold It’s kind of tech biz to think someone’s passing…

John C. Dvorak It's tech biz, I give you that, it is tech biz but then we're not talking about the business aspect of, I mean how much money does this guy actually make from this thing?

Leo Laporte It’s – no-one knows, at least a quarter of a billion a year, possibly three times that. It's – the company is valued at one billion.

Heather Gold Valued at, we all know how useful that is.

John C. Dvorak One billion would mean that yearly sales are 1 billion.

Leo Laporte Really, so your value is what you make a year?

John C. Dvorak Yeah, typically.

Leo Laporte I thought it was like 4 to 1 or something like that?

John C. Dvorak No, no that’s your sales, you might sell at 4 to 1 but if you do a valuation, it tends to be the stock price multiplied by the number of shares outstanding or one-year sales.

Heather Gold Depends what year (09:18) you are talking about, I remember when valuation, in the late 90’s, is they take the number of members and multiply it by [indiscernible] (09:22).

John C. Dvorak Yeah, that is a calculation that's valid.

Leo Laporte They still do that. That’s the [ph] Calacanis (09:28) calculation.

John C. Dvork You can do the same [ph] thing with this guy (09:29)

Leo Laporte We call it the [ph] Calacation (09:30).

John C. Dvorak But generally speaking, it means you can sell the company tomorrow for that amount of money.

Baratunde Thurston I think your value lies in your heart; it's impossible to measure.

Heather Gold You know what I loves is that Baratunde is more lesbian than I (09:43) on this show and I love everything about that.

Baratunde Thurston I am a lesbian actually.

Heather Gold Good job.

Leo Laporte I give up, I give up.

Heather Gold [ph] Let's go farm (09:47) and it’s – what’s in your heart.

Leo Laporte All right, okay tell me John is this a tech story from Ars Technica, Bandwidth Hogs join Unicorns in the realm of mythical creatures. An analyst had had it with internet data caps Bandwidth Hogs that thing that Comcast promoted you know as a way to say don’t use – or not Comcast...

John C. Dvorak The Pacific Bell.

Leo Laporte …Pacific Bell, yeah. Say, don’t use Comcast because that’s bandwidth hogs. He says it’s a myth. Caps simply penalize heavy users who – John, this is something I have been saying for a long time – cause no problems for others. Now he is throwing down the gauntlet and challenging ISPs to turn over some data. He says, “Let’s see.” [ph] It's Benoit Felten (10:30), he is with the Yankee Group. He covers fiber to the home issues. Okay, I admit he is in Paris but his bandwidth hog challenges the product of his personal blog Fiber Revolution. He is kind of with me. He says there’s plenty of bandwidth out there, this bandwidth hogs thing is a stalking horse for merely blocking competitive technologies like Skype, BitTorrent, stuff that would put Comcast or AT&T or Verizon out of business. The bandwidth hog is an imaginary creature for a digital age. Is that a tech story?

John C. Dvorak Yeah, don’t you think it is?

Leo Laporte Yeah, it's what we have been talking about for a long time.

Heather Gold Now, Dvorak, why is that a tech story? He's coming up with an imaginary creature.

Leo Laporte He likes unicorns. I know this is about John, he's always liked unicorns.

John C. Dvorak So, hey I'm only the messenger here about the tech stories, okay?

Leo Laporte Imagine that some of these crazed downloads are BitTorrent fiends and that they have their clients set up to do most of the downloading in the wee hours, as a BitTorrent fiend would do.

John C. Dvorak I think there is such a thing as a bandwidth hog. I see the effects of it. For example here at the house, my son cranked up something the other day and I was trying to do Skype and it just killed the whole network…

Leo Laporte Oh, that’s an in-house bandwidth hog.

John C. Dvorak …[indiscernible] you are virtualized (11:50) out on the bigger network and that’s why they have to do load balancing. Why do they have to have all these – just a certain number of people on each one of this nodes if there wasn’t some issue here?

Leo Laporte Right.

John C. Dvorak I think – by the way the Yankee Group historically has always kind of used hyperbole to get attention to itself. It’s a very common phenomenon with it.

Leo Laporte It worked, it worked.

Heather Gold Right.

Baratunde Thurston I think what this article also reveals is maybe a need for at least more transparency whether or not…

Leo Laporte That’s what he's asking for.

Baratunde Thurston …the claim is true. We can’t tell and what’s something as important as an internet network, whether we are taking long haul or in a metro area or in the last mile (12:35) or in John’s house, we need to have some insight into this because it’s becoming such a public good and a public infrastructure. We should know what its conditions are, and whether the claims of those operating it are valid or simply anti-competitive.

Leo Laporte It speaks to the net neutrality issue because if you are going to create a regulation for net neutrality, it’s in response to the notion that these companies are using bandwidth hogs as a kind of stalking horse for what’s really going on which is they want to keep people from using Skype and stuff.

Heather Gold Right.

Leo Laporte Or BitTorrent because they try to sell you movies and that kind of thing. I am with you. I think what we need if we want to have an informed conversation about net neutrality was we need numbers from…

Heather Gold Right.

Leo Laporte …these guys from Comcast. Well, how bad is it?

Baratunde Thurston Show me your bandwidth.

Leo Laporte Show me the bandwidth.

Heather Gold All the time, real time, numbers.

John C. Dvorak I think they have numbers they don’t understand themselves.

Leo Laporte And this is the conversation you and I have had for quite a bit, John. My position is there isn’t really a lack of bandwidth. There is plenty of bandwidth out there. That’s not really what they are worried about. And I think caps are a huge, stupid idea, and that’s what this guy is saying also. I don’t mind tiering. I think it’s reasonable to say, for instance, you pay 50 bucks, you get 10 megabits,…

Heather Gold A better deal.

Leo Laporte …you pay 70 bucks, you get a 100 megabits. That’s fine. Pay for your bandwidth but I don’t think paying for the amount makes any sense at all.

John C. Dvorak Well, I mean we – of course, you’re right. We have talked about this for the last 10 years and I will bring up my argument again.

Leo Laporte Okay, you might as well because we are rehashing. So go ahead.

John C. Dvorak So in other words, what you’re saying, it should be like water.

Leo Laporte Yes.

John C. Dvorak So when you turn the faucet on, you get a bunch of water and you don’t pay for using extra water. You just pay one flat fee. So for five bucks a month, I get all the water I can drink.

Leo Laporte Well, it doesn’t work that way for water either does it? You pay for the amount of water you use, but there's no cap, it doesn't say oh…

John C. Dvorak Which is why they should be charging by the bit.

Heather Gold He is saying there is no – what Leo is saying is that there is no limit but if you are a big user, you are going to have to tier into a separate kind of tier level where you’re going to pay a little more.

Leo Laporte I’m saying scarcity is not real. Water is a scare, at some point, a scare resource. Bits are not a scare resource. We’ll make more, John.

Baratunde Thurston But management of those bits at certain critical hours, peak hours can be a scare resource. The simultaneity of distributing bits might be a scarce resource.

Leo Laporte I think it’s an artificially created scarcity is my point, that there isn’t a scarcity, that there is so much dark fiber, that there is so much bandwidth that it is not a scarcity.

John C. Dvorak It costs money to light that stuff up.

Leo Laporte It costs. I admit. There is a fixed capital – we’ve had this conversation – there is a fixed capital cost.

John C. Dvorak Then there's maintenance, maintenance is not free.

Heather Gold But what about Baratunde's point about the management of it, which is a human issue?

Leo Laporte But yeah management is fairly cheap. Look at – how many people does it take to have billion bits of seconds go across the network. Not that many. I don’t need five more people because it’s 10 billion bits. It’s like a radio station's charging for how many people listening to it.

Heather Gold I see (15:31).

Leo Laporte It doesn’t cost you more to have a million listeners to a radio station because you are just putting the bits out there. So I think yes there is capital cost to building the routers and the fiber which is, by the way, all laid…

John C. Dvorak [ph] It costs you (15:43) more on the radio station because you have to have a bigger transmitter.

Leo Laporte No, you don't – wait a minute, wait a minute,…

John C. Dvorak You can’t do a half a watt and get a million people listen to you.

Leo Laporte Wait a minute

Baratunde Thurston Unless they all live within a block of the station.

Leo Laporte Right. So you have a transmitter that covers a metro area. If every single person in the city listens, it doesn’t cost you any more than if one person in the city listens, right? Bandwidth is like that.

John C. Dvorak That’s the way you see it.

Leo Laporte That’s right. I am Leo Laporte and that’s the way I see it.

Baratunde Thurston That’s the way [ph] Sue (16:14) sees it.

Heather Gold That’s the way [ph] Sue (16:15)…

Baratunde Thurston [Indiscernible] (16:16)

Heather Gold Yeah, exactly.

Baratunde Thurston Hey, I am a lesbian.

Leo Laporte That’s the way I see it.

Heather Gold I am going to get points every time I hear (16:23) lesbian.

Leo Laporte Wait a minute, wait a minute. Are you telling me you guys watch Glee?

Baratunde Thurston Oh yeah.

Leo Laporte Isn’t it great?

Heather Gold Oh it is the best. It's the bomb.

Leo Laporte It’s the gayest show on television.

Heather Gold It is.

Leo Laporte It’s wonderful.

Heather Gold And it’s the nerdiest show on television.

Leo Laporte It is. It’s about nerds.

Heather Gold It’s a complete nerd fest, I love it.

John C. Dvorak What show is this?

Leo Laporte Glee.

John C. Dvorak Blee?

Leo Laporte Glee.

Baratunde Thurston Glee.

Leo Laporte Glee, it’s wonderful.

John C. Dvorak Oh, Glee, I can’t watch that crap.

Leo Laporte I am hooked on it. You can’t stop watching it. You can’t stop watching it.

Heather Gold Especially because of Jane Lynch.

Leo Laporte She is brilliant.

Heather Gold Unbelievably funny.

Leo Laporte That’s the way I see it. What does that mean? Is that like C is like…

Heather Gold Her last name begins with a…

Leo Laporte It’s C.

Heather Gold …C. So it’s her cute little sign off.

Leo Laporte It’s godawful.

John C. Dvorak You guys are hopeless.

Heather Gold [ph] We;re dorks. (17:03)

Leo Laporte You know what I saw the other day? Speaking of TV, and I thought this was very interesting. HP doing an ad for printer with apps. HP obviously…

Baratunde Thurston Yeah.

Leo Laporte …yeah, have you seen this, Baratunde?

Baratunde Thurston It looked like an iPhone like jammed inside of an HP printer…

Leo Laporte There is an ad for that.

Baratunde Thurston There was a Google maps inside of a printer (17:21).

Leo Laporte It’s like – it’s very – I think it’s interesting. I think you are going to see apps everywhere because looking at how well Apple has done you know there is an app for that, it's clearly created a notion of this small, little applications.

Heather Gold Focused.

Leo Laporte Very focused. So if one of the…

Heather Gold Like Twitter used to be.

Leo Laporte Like Twitter used to be. The ad I saw was for [ph] Fandango (17:45). So you could print a movie ticket on your printer. So you press the button. The printer knows what movies are showing. I pick a movie, big picture, looks really cute, push the button, it prints the – it charges you somehow.

Baratunde Thurston So this is like – is this either is this a mini browser or are these basically widgets…

Leo Laporte I don’t know.

Baratunde Thurston …whose output you might want in paper format?

Leo Laporte And by the way…

Heather Gold They may not know themselves.

Leo Laporte …we do ads for Ford SYNC, which I'm about to do in a second, and Ford has announced they are going to open-source Ford SYNC, they are going to have an SDK and they are going to allow people to write apps for the car.

Heather Gold Car apps.

Leo Laporte There is a car app for that.

Baratunde Thurston Will there be an app that drives the car?

Heather Gold There is like a look of glee from the guys in the studio.

John C. Dvorak And I bet it drives the car off the bridge. We can have the Ted Kennedy app.

Leo Laporte Are you feeling in the dumps? Are you depressed? Do you want to end it all? There is an app for that.

Heather Gold Are there apps in the car? Yes, there are apps in the car.

Leo Laporte I think this is great. I just love this.

Baratunde Thurston I feel like navigation can get really cool with car apps, where you can do a lot of trip planning at home and you want to get that inside your car but you don't want to fumble with your phone. Are you tired of juggling your phone while you’re driving? Well then…

Leo Laporte There is an app for that.

Baratunde Thurston …you pre-establish your route, have it let you know are coffee shops are along the way or augmented reality type things that might prompt you for a pullover here to do xyz.

Leo Laporte I want a [ph] heads up display (19:06) Mercedes showed this at the LA Auto Show was like a split screen display, it looked like it was heads up, I don’t know it was…

John C. Dvorak Ford has got something like that too by the way on the drawing board.

Leo Laporte I think it’s so cool. Let me do the Ford...

Heather Gold Split screen – what? I'm trying to imagining. You are driving, you are looking at multiple screens.

Leo Laporte So the whole idea of heads up…

Heather Gold Like right now I am looking at Skypeasaurus and driving like this.

Leo Laporte Right, but…

Heather Gold With Baratunde and John.

Leo Laporte …through it, through it you see the little, old lady crossing the sidewalk – the crosswalk, so, you can stop.

John C. Dvorak So while you’re watching your TV show on your windshield…

Leo Laporte There is a little – okay, imagine…

John C. Dvorak You will hopefully see the old lady.

Leo Laporte Right, here’s Baratunde, a little old lady is walking across his head and you go oh, I better put on the brakes because somebody is walking on Baratunde’s head.

Baratunde Thurston No, no, no.

Heather Gold What?

Baratunde Thurston Better, better. There is an app for detecting old ladies.

Leo Laporte You don’t even have to worry about it.

Baratunde Thurston So it has access to your visuals…

John C. Dvorak No, with the new radars that they have, you’ll be able to watch the TV on your windshield while looking for the old ladies. But if you don’t see the old lady, the radar will stop the car any way.

Leo Laporte [ph] Brad Templeton (20:01), who is, besides being the chair of the EFF, is also a scientist and a researcher and he was – he is an expert…

Heather Gold And Canadian.

Leo Laporte And Canadian of course, as all good people are.

Heather Gold That’s right.

Leo Laporte Are you wearing a toque?

Heather Gold This doesn't quite really qualify as a toque...

Leo Laporte It's [ph] toquish (20:16)…

Heather Gold I don’t want to get you off the car app story.

Leo Laporte It’s [ph] toquish (20:18). Anyway, I talked to Brad – Brad is – it’s a [ph] toquette (20:22) – Brad is an expert on exactly this subject, which is autonomous vehicles. And he says, we're very, very – he has a whole blog on this.

Heather Gold Seriously?

Leo Laporte He says we're very, very close to cars.

Baratunde Thurston Oh, yeah, it’s common, I drove one. Well I should say one drove me...

Heather Gold No! In Future Of?

Baratunde Thurston Yeah, we did a segment [ph] on Junior (20:38) it's a car at Stanford University that won the DARPA Urban Challenge recently. And this car has hyper accurate GPS, it’s got a crazy LIDAR like 3D light-based radar system. It can read road signals and lane changes, it can detect other vehicles, it actually swerved around a car…

Heather Gold You don’t need the road to be like intelligent or have stuff in it for the car to be...

Leo Laporte No, no, no.

Baratunde Thurston No, there was no intelligence embedded in the road, they taught the car, it had enough scanning systems and processing power to interpret quickly enough, this is my lane, this is not my lane, that’s a person, this is not a person.

Leo Laporte Isn't that cool?

Heather Gold That’s hard to even [indiscernible] (21:12).

Leo Laporte You know where the – you what's…

Baratunde Thurston [ph] You can even text and do your make up with confidence (21:15).

Heather Gold We’ve now designed cars to let us text.

John C. Dvorak I want the Death Race 200 app.

Baratunde Thurston [ph] Enabling Austin (21:18) drivers since 2008.

Leo Laporte However, it’s really – it’s the political will that’s going to stop it because people are…

Heather Gold It’s going to freak people out.

Leo Laporte It freaks people out.

Heather Gold The idea that you are looking at something else, which people are doing anyway when they are driving, but if they are going to acknowledge...

Leo Laporte No, the car is more like a living room…

Baratunde Thurston It is.

Leo Laporte …where everything is in a circle and you are all talking to each other, you are eating lunch and whatever, and the car just takes you where you wanted to go – you say car…

Baratunde Thurston Yeah, it’s like a mobile living room, it’s like a mobile home.

Heather Gold Oh my god, Bucky Fuller, what would he say?

Leo Laporte You know, the sad thing about Bucky, he designed that great car that looked like a teardrop…

Heather Gold Yeah, I saw that car, it was gorgeous…

John C. Dvorak The Dymaxion Car.

Leo Laporte The Dymaxion.

Heather Gold Yes, Dymaxion; to seat 11 people with three wheels.

Leo Laporte Yeah, it was perfect…

Heather Gold The turning radius, an incredible turning radius.

Leo Laporte Yeah, and it was perfectly aerodynamic, it was super efficient, unfortunately the first guy who drives it gets in a fatal auto wreck, kind of kills the interest in the Dymaxion.

Heather Gold Make sure your early adopters are competent.

Leo Laporte He forgot the seatbelts I think probably…

Baratunde Thurston Or superhuman.

Leo Laporte Superhuman would be good.

Heather Gold I would get in a moving – living room.

Leo Laporte Who wouldn’t – that’s the future.

Heather Gold There will be whisky!

Leo Laporte Now, here is my prediction…

John C. Dvorak The future, that is the future – moving living rooms, let me write that one down.

Leo Laporte Forget flying cars, I want living rooms on wheels. Now – but here is the thing, watch carefully because everybody – look, the technology is imminent within the next couple of years, everybody knows it, everybody also knows there is no way those old men in the Senate are going to make this possible.

You can’t let a car drive itself. It might...

John C. Dvorak [ph] It is what a Winnebago is (22:48).

Leo Laporte What happened to people farming? So…

Heather Gold We get a lot of money from the petrol industry and they like the cars being driven by [ph] morons (22:55).

Leo Laporte Exactly. So, watch, because what I think will happen is if somebody very clever is out there, is a gradualization of this, and I think Ford 's [ph] thinking about this (23:04)…

Heather Gold How do you gradualize this?

Leo Laporte You gradualize it…

Heather Gold How do you gradualize a living room?

Baratunde Thurston They’ve already done this.

Heather Gold [ph] You just put an ottoman in (23:10) and you don’t notice it.

Baratunde Thurston Parking – cars that park themselves are already out there.

Leo Laporte They park themselves.

Baratunde Thurston That’s how it starts, heads up radar systems in cars, it’s already starting, collision detection systems already in cars, so [ph] you're going to let the car (23:19) act autonomously on [indiscernible] (23:23)…

Heather Gold We couldn’t get cars made out of aluminum, how are we going to get cars that are this amazing?

Leo Laporte No, we've got it, Volvo has this BLISS system which is actually in Ford’s Taurus SHO that will tell you if somebody is in your blind spot, the Prius will slow down if you drift out of your lane, tighten your seatbelts, put on – change the braking…

Heather Gold That’s true, I’ve experienced that.

Leo Laporte All of this stuff is here and it’s going to gradually I think be – so people get comfortable with it.

Baratunde Thurston And somebody in the chatroom just said cruise control, which is…

Heather Gold Good point [indiscernible] (23:53)…

Baratunde Thurston … a great system that’s been there for quite some time. I don’t actually see the massive opposition to this that you do, Leo. If it's sold right, people can sell this as safer because the machines are quicker and [ph] foolproof (24:04)…

Heather Gold The only opposition, Baratunde, would come from if it threatened the oil business. That’s what you have to worry about.

Leo Laporte It's not going to threaten the oil business.

Heather Gold And it used to be the steel business. And if it doesn’t threaten them, then it has a chance.

Leo Laporte That’s not going to [indiscernible] (24:15)

Baratunde Thurston This encourages driving by saying, look, you can actually do your homework or your office work in your car just like driving a – riding in public transit, and if anything, it'd encourage people to keep their cars rather than doing something else because they are not 'wasting time' anymore.

Heather Gold GM’s new lobbyist Baratunde Thurston. That was very [ph] good (24:30).

Baratunde Thurston I can sell anything.

Heather Gold That was good, it’s well done.

Leo Laporte It’s really good, man.

Heather Gold Well done, you really had me.

John C. Dvorak [ph] Where did Leo go (24:38)?

Leo Laporte Man, I’m just…

Heather Gold One minute I'm planting an artichoke on a roof and dancing in a circle with the moon, and the next minute I’m like GM needs cards (24:48).

Leo Laporte I love it. I love it. I am – actually I’m watching Disney’s Future of Transportation, it’s fascinating.

John C. Dvorak And Disney would know.

Leo Laporte And Disney would know. This probably is something that they played…

Heather Gold What's Disney’s – is it on the Disney channel you mean?

Leo Laporte No, no, it’s 1958 Disneyland TV show episode called Magic Highway USA, you can see it on YouTube.

Heather Gold Okay.

Leo Laporte An exploration of the possible future.

John C. Dvorak ’58, so that was what, 51 years ago, and how far have we gotten?

Leo Laporte We’ve got Ford SYNC, look at traffic density, slow. It slows down.

Heather Gold Magic Highway?

John C. Dvorak 51 years ago.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Yeah.

Baratunde Thurston All came true, all true.

John C. Dvorak And what have we got, a car that parks itself.

Leo Laporte I think that’s pretty good. Have you…

John C. Dvorak You know, the thing about the car that parks itself, I’d like to know, can you take your driver’s license test with that car, and push the button?

Leo Laporte That’s great. That’s how they are going to sell it.

Heather Gold How?

Leo Laporte They are going to say – they are going to get the DMV to say, okay if you have a self-driving car, you don’t have to take the test, or we’ll just let the car drive.

Heather Gold Oh, wow. You don't have to go to the DMV, it’s the only place where people meet each other, other than the ice-cream shop, otherwise our culture would never mix.

Leo Laporte Oh god, DMV, horrible. You are right though.

Heather Gold That’s all we got, that’s all we got left of the supposed democratic complex feature.

Leo Laporte No, I was in the DMV, I didn’t know people like that were alive in this world. It's one of those – where you feel like everybody there is alien, like from another planet.

Heather Gold And they think that about you too.

Leo Laporte Do you think so? Do they look at me and say, I didn’t know he was in this area?

Heather Gold Everyone – people who think someone isn’t like them, they can't handle it, whatever that thing is.

John C. Dvorak It’s because of those hats.

Leo Laporte It’s the toques.

Heather Gold [ph] Me, I wear my alienness right here (26:17).

Leo Laporte It’s the toques. All right, let me take it…

Heather Gold What happened to your love boat...

Leo Laporte It’s the toques. All right, let me take it…

Baratunde Thurston Think iPod.

Heather Gold What happened to your [ph] Thurston Howell III (26:24) scarf, Dvorak? Where did that go?

Leo Laporte Oh luvvy, where is your scarf, luvvy?

Heather Gold Yeah, where is your scarf?

Leo Laporte I’m wearing a scarf, you should be wearing a scarf. Come on luvvy. Let’s take a break.

John C. Dvorak That’s the voice I’m looking for.

Leo Laporte It’s time for me to make some money. I don’t know about you, but I like to make some money with this show, so I’m going to talk about Ford SYNC, how about that?

Look at that, it’s amazing. It’s actually – it is kind of what we were talking about. It's the precursor to all of this. Ford SYNC, the idea behind Ford SYNC is it is a hands-free system, it lets you keep your hands on wheel and your eyes are the road and yet do so many of those things that are distracting normally, with your voice, it’s great voice recognition.

Of course first thing you do is you pair your Bluetooth phone to it, up to 25 different phones, I’ve got my Droid and my iPhone paired to it, it will play music from it – the phone, using Bluetooth’s music profiles, is it A2DP? It might be A2DP. It will also – if your airbag’s deploy, call 911 for you. It has – the SYNC has its own GPS, so it will send the GPS coordinates for where the car is, play a recorded message to give you a chance to say, “Help me! Help me!” It can [ph] give you vehicle (27:37) – history reports, you can – I mean, this thing is amazing.

Now, that’s – that’s just kind of the utilitarian stuff. There is also – they call it Travel Link , I was playing with this yesterday, and I was just showing my wife, I said, watch this honey, I pressed the button, and said Travel Link, and then it goes [ph] bonk! (27:50) and I say five-day weather forecast, I get a five-day weather forecast. I say football scores, NFL – I get the NFL scores. I say, how is my fantasy team doing? It will tell you that. Movie times – it’s got GPS – you say, I want to go somewhere, it gives you the destination, it’s not a big – expensive GPS unit, it does it itself turn by turn directions through your voice and the SYNC voice and I like the SYNC lady, I’m getting a little crush on her too. I want you to take a look at Ford SYNC.

You’ve got just I think a day or two more to win a new Nano or a Zune by going to, you can learn about Ford SYNC there, and you can enter to win. All you have to do is Tweet #syncmyridepodcast, something like I’m listening to a car wreck on TWiT this week #syncmyridepodcast and you'll be in the draw.

They’ve got 15 Nanos or Zunes to give away, contest ends December 9, your chance to Tweet and win. We thank Ford so much for their faith in NuMedia. Let me tell you something, that’s a pretty big deal when a company like Ford buys ads and it’s not just by the way in the TWiT Network, there – I see their ads on Diggnation and all over the place. They’ve – I think they really get it. They say, you know this is real. So thank you Ford, and folks do me a favor,, just check it out.

Heather Gold I can see the reality show next.

Leo Laporte What's that?

Heather Gold You know Pimp My Ride? Sync My Ride, like what's the crazy apps? Robot destroying app you've come up with for the – your car, I mean are we going to have cars that like attack other cars? Are there going to be ejection seats, stuff like [indiscernible] (29:30).

Leo Laporte Well, it’s interesting, I was talking to Chris DiBona of Google, he was on our FLOSS Weekly show, he is their open source guy. And he says, yeah, I've actually been talking with Ford about this and their concern is they don’t want people to write apps that would tweak the fuel ratios or change…

Heather Gold They don’t want to make the car more fuel-efficient than they did.

Leo Laporte No, what – usually what happens is less, they want…

Baratunde Thurston [ph] The go to overclock my car, (29:52) what people do to their computer processors overclock – overclock your…

Leo Laporte Exactly, overclock it, exactly. Make it [ph] a richer – (29:57) you know that John; aren’t you are hot rod guy where you – oh dear.

John C. Dvorak Yeah.

Heather Gold I thought that you did that Leo, that’s John…

Leo Laporte There is a voodoo doll in John’s window, that’s good.

John C. Dvorak I used to be a hot rod guy.

Leo Laporte So you would – wouldn’t you enrich the fuel mixture to make it go faster, something like that?

John C. Dvorak Ah, you get some nitrous oxide and pump in it straight.

Leo Laporte There you go, did you do that?

John C. Dvorak Blow up the thing.

Leo Laporte Well, did you drive a nitro-fueled funny car? Sunday, Sunday, Sunday watch John C. Dvorak round the 15 mile over as his nitro fueled funny car goes round and round and round! Oh, the humanity. Was that you?

John C. Dvorak Tom Campbell!

Leo Laporte Oh yeah.

Heather Gold Nice.

Leo Laporte Top of the Hill, Daly City.

John C. Dvorak Well he did all the funny car – he also had that voice that you just did.

Leo Laporte Sunday, Sunday, Sunday. Oh I loved that stuff. I grew up on that stuff. [Ph] Mini – (30:41).

John C. Dvorak Whatever happen to him I wonder.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I wonder too. He was a kind of an interesting – he was a DJ in San José, he did a very famous ads in San Francisco for a stereo store called Matthews, Top of the Hill Daly City and there’s – it’s somewhere around there [ph] lie up (30:58) – outtakes of this because what he would do is he would go to the Matthews Store, say ‘I’m Tom Campbell, here for Matthews Top of the Hill, Daly City’ and then he would start talking to people as they go out; ‘what did you get?’ Oh, and people would say rude things and stuff, and he’d just keep on going.

He was also famous for having people call his show and give him sob stories like I got a hot date with my girlfriend tonight and my car broke down and he have give them the keys to his car.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, he did…

Heather Gold No.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, no he had actually perfected the networking thing. He had – he had phones in his car, he had – he had like early mobile phones.

Leo Laporte He was very interesting fellow. Yeah.

John C. Dvorak Old car phones, the old analog ones and all kinds of weird stuff so he could – he was always – you could always get a hold of him somehow. So he was just basically working 24/7. Kind of like you, Leo.

Heather Gold Or Baratunde, I don’t know how you manage to tweet as much…

John C. Dvorak Working all day and all night.

Leo Laporte This is – is he a Super Tweeter?

Heather Gold I tweet a lot but it’s very hard to keep up. Baratunde is not only tweeting at all times…

John C. Dvorak He is tweeting as we speak.

Baratunde Thurston A.B.T. Always Be Tweeting.

Leo Laporte A.B.T. I don’t think Mamet…

Heather Gold He’s on multiple platforms.

Leo Laporte I don’t think that’s exactly what Mamet said but it’s close, yeah.

Baratunde Thurston Just updating him for the 21st Century.

Heather Gold Pretty much. I went [ph] Moparality once so it was like (32:03) small cars and they had – there was this one car with a record player in it before there was cassette tapes. It wasn’t just put in aftermarket, like it came with a car. And it played upside down.

Leo Laporte Yeah, well it would skip otherwise.

Heather Gold It was humungous.

Leo Laporte No, the very first because they didn’t – actually it’s quite famous. I think it’s – they talked about it in [ph] Empire of the year (32:26) before they were car radios, people wanted to – before radio was common, people wanted music in their cars.

Heather Gold Right.

Leo Laporte They tried putting Victrolas in the car; it wasn’t a good idea.

Heather Gold Which is kind of like a lot of web video shows now.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, I remember that.

Leo Laporte You remember that John? You remember hearing about it.

John C. Dvorak Yeah.

Leo Laporte You don’t’ remember actually driving that.

John C. Dvorak I never had one, but I remember hearing about it, yeah.

Leo Laporte Yeah, because …

John C. Dvorak I do remember though when the early – they had the early cartridges, they used to have those like a cart that you’d have at a radio station. They had those in cars, they were pre-eight-track.

Leo Laporte Oh, they weren’t eight-tracks but they are like eight-tracks?

John C. Dvorak No they weren’t – well no, they were like the radio cart that you get in the station where you used to have a cart and you’d pull a lever and it –

Heather Gold Right.

John C. Dvorak Makes the thing go.

Leo Laporte It would go ‘chnk’. Well the reason was until transistors came along, you really couldn’t put a radio in a car because it had vacuum tubes, and stuff that would just shake loose, so it wasn’t until the 50s when the transistor came along and radios came along, they put radios in cars. So they had to figure out all sorts of ways of doing it.

Talking about these apps, there’s an article in – did you want to start another thought, John? Go ahead.

John C. Dvorak Well no, I was going to start another topic.

Leo Laporte Yes. Go right ahead. You see there’s a quite of few of them here.

John C. Dvorak Well I think we should be talking about the Google Public DNS.

Leo Laporte This is interesting. I am an OpenDNS fan. I use

John C. Dvorak You use it?

Leo Laporte Yeah, oh yeah. And you know why I use it? OpenDNS, it’s a replacement for your DNS server from your ISP.

John C. Dvorak Right.

Leo Laporte That give…

John C. Dvorak Have you tested it?

Leo Laporte Yeah; it’s faster, more reliable and one of the reasons I started using it is about six months ago there was a significant DNS flaw, security flaw and many Internet Service Providers did not fixed it but OpenDNS not only had it – was it fixed, it had been fixed before the flaw was discovered. So it never had the vulnerability. It is faster often and they also have a nice feature if you create an account with OpenDNS, you can use it for filtering. So I keep my kids from playing Farmville with OpenDNS. So it’s got some nice features.

Heather Gold You keep them from Farmville because …

Leo Laporte No I don’t actually.

John C. Dvorak So Preston Gralla wrote a story in Computerworld and he said that he tested OpenDNS against Google DNS and found that Open was better and you should just skip the Google DNS, but I find it hard to believe that anything could possibly be faster than Google with all the bandwidth they sit on.

Leo Laporte I think – I think OpenDNS is better because they have been around longer and they understand it better.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah and the Google servers, I mean they may not necessarily be physically closer to your home. And if they just started this, maybe they haven’t fully deployed across all their massive Google infrastructure. So it could get faster over time. It’s something I’m guessing, because I read that same story that looked like Google had no real speed advantage even though the point was supposed to be speed.

Leo Laporte Well here is a really interesting question, why is Google doing OpenDNS?

John C. Dvorak Obviously they’ve been study…

Baratunde Thurston Because they’re good people, who like to…

Heather Gold We talked about this yesterday.

Leo Laporte Yes, on TWiG.

Heather Gold On TWiG.

John C. Dvorak What did you say?

Leo Laporte Yes, they are just being nice.

Heather Gold Because they are just…

Baratunde Thurston Yeah; they’re nice.

Heather Gold They just like you.

John C. Dvorak Oh crap; bull.

Leo Laporte Well why do you think they might be doing it, John?

John C. Dvorak Market research.

Leo Laporte Yes, they get to know everything about where you go and what you do.

Heather Gold Yes, yes, Jaff Jarvis made the –

John C. Dvorak I don’t think they care about where you go. They just want to see trends and where you people are going in general. I – you know, the idea that they’re tracking any one person to any extreme I think is kind of a – it’s not what they are – they don’t want to do that.

Heather Gold They’re tracking you, John. You’re the only person they want to know.

John C. Dvorak I mean they might track you. Yes. They might track one person they hate.

Heather Gold It’s you, I’ve asked them to do it, because I need to know what you’re up to at all times, because I need to know.

Leo Laporte You know, can I track Taylor Swift? That’s all I want to do. No, I’m just kidding.

John C. Dvorak Taylor Swift.

Heather Gold Taylor Swift.

Leo Laporte I think the truth is that Google does track you, John. If you look at your Google history log into your Google account, they know exactly where you been, everywhere you’ve been, everything you’ve search for for the last five years.

Heather Gold They know everything. And your phone company has, as we’ve learned…

John C. Dvorak [In a bad German accent] Zen zey vill get in touch with me ven zey need to talk.

Leo Laporte When you’ll – we will talk. We will call. You need not call us. We know where you live. The only advantage of Google DNS – go ahead, have a drink. Enjoy yourself.

Heather Gold I was just going to say, and your cell phone company has all of your voice mails, John. And someday those are going to be really fun to hear.

John C. Dvorak Isn’t that great because I – that’s one of the reasons I don’t have a machine on my phone, I don’t use voice mail at all.

Leo Laporte I’ve just learned that Taylor Swift is under age. I have not been tracking Taylor Swift. Thank you very much.

Heather Gold I just hear she’s…

John C. Dvorak She is 19. That’s bull.

Heather Gold She just welded with Kanye West in my mind for all time now.

Leo Laporte I know.

John C. Dvorak She is 19.

Baratunde Thurston So sad.

Heather Gold It’s over before it begins.

Leo Laporte That was – the whole thing was a set up, right?

Heather Gold I don’t know, [ph] what do you think? (36:54)

John C. Dvorak Yes, because they have the same agent.

Leo Laporte They have the same agent. Whoever heard of Taylor Swift before it happened? Now she’s huge.

Heather Gold And they were hoping to cross over into the urban audience.

Leo Laporte And it sure didn’t hurt Kanye; everybody, you know, that’s Kanye. Everybody loves Kanye because he’s that kind of guy.

John C. Dvorak And [ph] he – Obama (37:08).

Baratunde Thurston I don’t well I have not – first of all I don’t knowanything. That never stoppe me from sharing my opinion before. But I just want to throw that out there. I don’t –

Leo Laporte Because you’re a brother, you might know what really happened.

Heather Gold Right. Well we all know each other. Let me tell you about Taylor.

Leo Laporte Is it on the grapevine?

Heather Gold All the women have been talking.

Baratunde Thurston Kanye has a history of great behavior. And I’m looking for the tech angle on this but just since we’re talking about it…

Heather Gold He used a microphone.

Baratunde Thurston He’s an unstable, egomaniacal, troubled person. And so this doesn’t quite seem out of character for him; he has a history of interrupting folks and just being sort of a bad person during award shows and trying to steal the spotlight because he’s full of himself.

Leo Laporte But don’t you think it was a little odd that they sat him so close to the stage. They…

John C. Dvorak Yes, with the same agent, this has happened before, and… come on.

Baratunde Thurston But there’s like three agents for all the people in that room. So I don’t think that was the…

Heather Gold Good point. Do you really think, you guys, that their agents actually do any work, you think they spend any time trying to make things better?

John C. Dvorak Yes, that’s the work they do. The come up with schemes like this to get publicity.

Leo Laporte They scheme.

Heather Gold They want – no, agents don’t deal with publicity. That’s a different kind of person. I don’t think agents spend their time trying to get publicity. I think a publicist might.

John C. Dvorak No they don’t do that, they’re too busy trying to screw you.

Heather Gold They’re too lazy; I wouldn’t give them that kind of credit.

Leo Laporte Do you have a manager, an agent, all that stuff?

John C. Dvorak This is the agent you have.

Heather Gold I no longer have a manager, I have a couple of agents, but I don’t have a manager any more. Maybe I will, someday. Maybe.

Leo Laporte Baratunde, do you a manager and an agent and all that stuff?

Baratunde Thurston I’ve recently acquired managers and I’m working on an agent.

Leo Laporte I know Dvorak has a book agent.

Baratunde Thurston Yes.

Leo Laporte Is that something you need?

Heather Gold And Baratunde, are you finding your managers are helping you? Because you seem like you could manage your managers, probably.

Baratunde Thurston No, I mean I went for a very long time without any official infrastructure; it was like me and Google and word of mouth, you know a physical and virtual word of mouth hooking me up with gigs, but it got to a point where it couldn’t handle the – just the flow of like sort demand and gigs and everything and manager’s been pretty helpful and having somebody having somebody to shift things off to as well as just helping…

Heather Gold So exactly what you just said, and I think this scales all the way up to Taylor Swift. These kinds of folks are great when you have inflow coming and you need somebody like outsourcing, it’s like your India; your personal India.

John C. Dvorak On This Week in Show Business...

Heather Gold Basically they are not going to come in and say let’s change your – I mean they’re just not that good most of the time, I would say.

John C. Dvorak They are not that good. SpyPhone app steals personnel data from all iPhones.

Baratunde Thurston Woohoo! Now was this in the app store?

Leo Laporte No. Yes, I want this.

Baratunde Thurston Because if Apple approved that that would be awesome.

Heather Gold Might be Pistachio’s.

John C. Dvorak What is this story?

Leo Laporte This is bizarre; this comes from, I don’t know the site. “Who was that someone shouting loud that only…” – it not an English. I don’t know what language this is, “that only jailbreaking makes iPhones insecure.” They are talking about the Australian virus that took advantage of jailbroken iPhones and fact that people were installing SSH [indiscernible] (40:00).

Heather Gold This phrase has ‘jailbreak’ ‘virgin’ and ‘leak’ in it. It’s a little disturbing.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah. Let’s just skip to the second graph in this story, it’s slightly better written.

Leo Laporte A Swiss phone developer – thank you, thank you. Is this an Onion joke? Is this an Onion article? I think it might be.

Baratunde Thurston No, we’re much better than this.

Leo Laporte A Swiss phone developer has unveiled a new app that is capable of harvesting huge amounts of personal data from iPhones using the public API exposed by Apple’s SDK. Now in order for SpyPhone to work it doesn’t need jailbreaking or any exploits, you – it relies, it says, on the iPhone’s usability and depth of features. Once an application – but see, you got to get it on the iPhone. He’s posted the source code, he’s given a talk. He says you can do this, but this is – frankly this is Apple’s argument for why they are so tight in their application approval process, because you are not going to be able to get SpyPhone without jailbreaking your iPhone because you can’t get it through the Apple application store.

John C. Dvorak That’s an interesting argument.

Leo Laporte Well that’s Steve Jobs’ argument; we want to make a secure phone, that’s why we check every application before we put it on there. So this – you know.

John C. Dvorak But you know, you could say the same thing about computers in general. I guess we wouldn’t have a virus laden environment that within the Windows community…

Leo Laporte If Microsoft…yeah.

John C. Dvorak If it wasn’t for the fact that every thing is open.

Leo Laporte Microsoft should have added an app store. And that’s actually a really interesting choice that IBM made back in 1981 when they released the PC. They didn’t hold on to it, they didn’t patent it, they didn’t patent the BIOS, they allowed people…

John C. Dvorak They didn’t take it seriously.

Leo Laporte Was that why? Because without that…

John C. Dvorak Oh yeah they were just kind of, there were the guys in Boca Raton that developed all the stuff and the big boys up North, they didn’t think this – you know – ‘okay, whatever you know, and why should we…’ They didn’t want to take it too seriously, they…

Leo Laporte They should have.

Baratunde Thurston They screwed up.

Leo Laporte Should have. You know, I think that PC is going places. AT&T ranked last in consumer reports’ Best Cellphone Service Survey, an annual survey of wireless customer satisfaction.

Heather Gold How do you even need a survey to know that?

Baratunde Thurston Impossible, impossible. I don’t believe it, this is some – it’s some Verizon ad, right?

Leo Laporte It can’t be true!

Baratunde Thurston Unbelievable.

Leo Laporte In a canvass of more than 50,000 readers spanning 26 cities, the carrier that had the lowest customer satisfaction in 19 cities was AT&T. Can you guess who number one was, the best satisfaction?

John C. Dvorak Verizon.

Leo Laporte Verizon.

Heather Gold Verizon. Which Droid is right?

Leo Laporte Droid. Droid.

John C. Dvorak Droid.

Heather Gold The Apple’s – it’s almost enough to get me off the iPhone, I hate AT&T.

Leo Laporte Everybody does. Apple’s iPhones are the top smart phones said consumer reports in our ratings among the best of all phones we tested period but their exclusive carrier AT&T was middling at best in satisfaction. If were reading – see I love how consumer reports write; there’s a certain style. ‘If you are readying to buy Apple’s iPhone, prepare for possible disappointment with its service and expect to love the phone anyway.’

Baratunde Thurston Guaranteed disappointment.

Heather Gold Yeah, well put.

Baratunde Thurston Guaranteed, it’s part of the contracts, it’s part of the arrangement you make you make when you get this phone.

John C. Dvorak You will be guaranteed to be disappointed.

Leo Laporte And yet it says despite the network problems, a staggering 98% of iPhone users in our survey were satisfied enough to say they would definitely or probably buy the phone again.

Heather Gold Is that comparing the phone to what they had before the iPhone?

Leo Laporte So what you are saying is that AT&T’s ads which slam – I mean Verizon’s adds which slam AT&T, I just saw another one.

Baratunde Thurston Are true.

Leo Laporte Where Santa’s going out to the barn and all the reindeer are in there and it’s cold and he has got his lantern. He says okay boys, you are ready and they all have maps pop up from their heads, this makes no sense. Maps – they got a Verizon coverage maps coming out of their head and then Blitzen, for reasons no one understands, has AT&T’s map coming out of his head.

Heather Gold Gets lost.

Leo Laporte And Santa says ‘really Blitzen, really?’ Or no, he doesn’t say that but something like that.

John C. Dvorak Is that really a commercial?

Baratunde Thurston It’s well established that Santa’s reindeer plot their courses using American 3G coverage maps. That’s how Christmas works.

John C. Dvorak You know what’s weird about that commercial?

Leo Laporte What?

John C. Dvorak I would have thought it would have been Donner.

Leo Laporte Yeah it was always Donner in the…

Heather Gold What happened to Rudolph?

Leo Laporte Rudolph – oh no, Rudolph’s beloved; you can’t mess with Rudolf.

Heather Gold You can’t mess with Rudolph?

Leo Laporte No, Rudolph doesn’t even – he has his own stall, he is not in the stable with the rest of the guys.

Heather Gold The Jews don’t even have a map. They won’t ask for directions, they are just lost in the desert. There is no Santa coming.

Leo Laporte AT&T.

John C. Dvorak No it’s Donder, not Donner sorry.

Leo Laporte Donder und Blitzen

Heather Gold Donner.

John C. Dvorak Donder

Leo Laporte Donder, this means it’s a word it’s a German word for Thunder.

Heather Gold So how long are we going to be stuck with AT&T – are you still on an iPhone, Baratunde have you left yet?

Leo Laporte You almost called him Barack, I think that was cute.

Baratunde Thurston No, I – you can call me Barack.

Heather Gold I did not. You projected that entirely Leo!

John C. Dvorak Yeah you did.

Leo Laporte Rewind the tape ladies and gentlemen; you be the judge.

John C. Dvorak I heard it.

Heather Gold Not even close.

Baratunde Thurston I will tell you – I refer, when my AT&T has been bad for a while, I say they’re sort of the civil-liberties-violating, crap-network-operating billing company that occasionally moonlights as a telecom service provider.

Heather Gold Right, right.

Baratunde Thurston I reluctantly got this iPhone because the Google Android phone wasn’t working out so well, it just couldn’t handle what I was throwing at it.

Heather Gold Alright.

Baratunde Thurston So I have been forced – I am still pretty happy with the iPhone though a part of me hates myself for who I’ve had to [ph] get a contract with. (45:20)

Leo Laporte This is exactly what happens.

Heather Gold Right, so is there any way – I know Esme Vos, what she does is she uses T-Mobile, she buys – she just uses the iPhone on – I don’t think she uses the phone, she uses iPod touch over Wi-Fi, because she’s all about Wi-Fi. And then she just gets like an all you can eat little really inexpensive plan for some really old school phone for the phone service…

Leo Laporte That’s a good idea, that’s a great idea.

Heather Gold …and she carries those two together and then you can get most of the – as long as you can get Wi-Fi somewhere you are kind of – I can’t get the Skype app to work well enough; I would love to go all Wi-Fi.

Leo Laporte I used Skype in china over Wi-Fi.

Heather Gold It was [indiscernible] (45:52)

Leo Laporte The Wi-Fi in the hotel was so good, I was able to Skype home for free from my iPhone; it was awesome.

Heather Gold Gosh.

Leo Laporte It was really great.

Baratunde Thurston But I mean the Wi-Fi, that works if you are in an environment where you don’t move very much.

Heather Gold Right .

Baratunde Thurston Or you don’t mind going back to a payphone model where you are looking for these occasional spots to connect to the world but…

Heather Gold Right, right.

Baratunde Thurston But to carry, like, a phone-phone and this other phone, that sort of defeated the purpose of an integrated device for me, and I am not trying to switch to Verizon now for the Droid, it’s just – I am done for a while.

Leo Laporte It’s kind of ironic, because in China they blocked Twitter, FriendFeed, Flickr but you can use Skype. Here you can’t use Skype but Twitter and FriendFeed all you want.

Heather Gold Well it’s more communisty to use Skype apparently over Wi-Fi.

Leo Laporte That’s right.

Heather Gold So...

Leo Laporte They don’t like AT&T either apparently in Beijing. AT&T’s response to the consumer reports findings quote, “we…”

Baratunde Thurston Did they sue them?

Leo Laporte ‘You suck, we’re suing!’

Baratunde Thurston They’re going to sue every consumer who reported on their bad coverage.

Leo Laporte Given – we want – they subpoenaed the surveys and they will be calling you. “We appreciate and value all customer feedback, we learn from it and it helps us serve our customers better. Without question, the serious indication of customer satisfaction is churn, or turnover. For the last quarter our postpaid churn – ” wow, “– was just 1.17%.” That means only, that means 99% of iPhone users stuck with it.

Baratunde Thurston That – well what they don’t mention though is that their – probably their contract exit fees prevent…

Leo Laporte That’s right.

Heather Gold Right.

Baratunde Thurston …a lot of people who would churn from doing so.

Leo Laporte ‘It might help that it costs $175 to churn.’

Heather Gold And the way they tier their pricing so freaking irritating. It’s like ‘we give you all these –’ you know, I should never drink before – I never drink before you stand up, but I tried today.

Leo Laporte Have a cookie.

Heather Gold Yeah, I’ll have a cookie.

Leo Laporte We have actually a broad variety of beverages set aside for you, the Sarah Silverman of lesbians

Heather Gold I can’t even – oh my God.

Leo Laporte We have got [ph] takadi (47:52), we have got vodka, we have got two kinds…

Heather Gold Dan Akroyd’s.

Leo Laporte …Dan Akroyd’s Crystal Head Vodka, isn’t that gorgeous?

Heather Gold It’s autographed.

Leo Laporte It’s actual size, that’s how big his head is.

Heather Gold No, but just I hate that they give you this pricing so that they try to make it sound like they are giving roll over minutes, and they’re giving – you can’t even use them because you are forced to buy an enormous package you’ll never use; I can’t believe I just said that.

Leo Laporte StrikeitRich.

Heather Gold It was a mistake.

Leo Laporte StrikeitRich.

John C. Dvorak Badda bing!

Leo Laporte She just said something – An Enormous Package You’ll Never Use.

John C. Dvorak I heard it.

Leo Laporte Wonder what she meant by that? StrikeitRich in the chat room pointed out that as soon as AT&T loses it’s exclusivity on the iPhone, he said then watch the churn and he is absolutely right.

Baratunde Thurston He is right. We have gotten to this point – I mean churn used to be a lot higher – excuse me – in this country when cell phone service was still relatively new and people were shopping for deals, there was massive difference in plans. We have gotten pretty mature at this point, people are locked into family plans, they are locked into certain operating systems or devices. So I think overall industry churn is a bit lower and what I would be curious about is if Verizon’s churn is lower than AT&T’s, I doubt that AT&T revealed that in their response.

Leo Laporte I don’t know, but I bet Verizon’s churn is pretty good. I mean I am very happy with the Droid.

Heather Gold Well I have to say I had Verizon first and I had horrible incorrect billing from them – that’s just my own experience for a long time and I’ve had much more experience with T-Mobile than Verizon.

Leo Laporte Well let’s face it, you know T-Mobile does have good customer service but let’s face it; all cell phone companies suck.

Heather Gold Yeah.

Leo Laporte They’re all awful.

Heather Gold Why don’t – can we just get some way to geek around? Is there some way to avoid them all?

John C. Dvorak I like the Track Phone personally, I think they do a good job.

Leo Laporte What kind of phone?

Baratunde Thurston [Indiscernible] (49:26)

Leo Laporte It’s a [ph] burner? (49:29)

John C. Dvorak You call them up, you get a couple of minutes, so you use the phone then you throw it in the garbage, fantastic.

Leo Laporte The choice of dealers everywhere; Track Phone.

John C. Dvorak Track Phone, by the way here is a story that I – that’s piqued my interest. Google Schmidt; frustrated newspaper execs just looking for someone to blame.

Heather Gold Yeah this footage got my interest too. I thought we talked more about it This Week in Google. Did you read Kara’s decoding of Eric Smith’s Wall Street Journal piece? It’s pretty funny. [Indiscernible] (49:57)

Leo Laporte Kara Swisher. You’re the one drinking and I can’t say Kara Swisher

Heather Gold Kara Swisher.

Leo Laporte Kara Swisher at AllThingsD man.

Heather Gold Yeah it’s like the big story for a change of the week in the media business; that the newspaper publishers and the traditional publishers are freaked out and Murdoch’s saying they’re going to try to de-index from Google, everything in his empire.

John C. Dvorak What a joke.

Heather Gold It’s a complete joke. They would – they’re not going to benefit and it just happened, although Jeff Jarvis explained that the First Click story was not a response…

Leo Laporte Let’s talk about the First Click thing, because I think that’s kind of – Google is…

Heather Gold Try to bring it back guys to the tech, I just want everyone in IRC to know I’m trying to geek it up for you.

Leo Laporte Thank you. Two points to the girl in the [Indiscernible] (50:33).

Heather Gold Even though I really want to talk about Murdoch and Arianna again. But anyway…

Leo Laporte You do a very good Arianna by the way.

Heather Gold [In a foreign accent] Why thank you darling.

Leo Laporte Yeah, she’s amazing.

John C. Dvorak Oh, she does an Arianna?

Leo Laporte Oh yeah.

Heather Gold Ah.

John C. Dvorak I haven’t heard this.

Heather Gold [In a foreign accent] Well why were you not listening to me yesterday, John?

Leo Laporte He doesn’t listen to the shows.

John C. Dvorak Eh, it’s close.

Heather Gold Yes it’s close!

John C. Dvorak Eh.

Leo Laporte ‘Eh.’ Schmidt says – Herr Schmidt says it’s understandable to…why don’t you do this in a Greek accent?

John C. Dvorak No, you can’t do that voice. Come on.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Arianna.

Heather Gold Give me some time. Go and do this – keep talking about this story, I’ll jump in.

John C. Dvorak [indiscernible] (51:08) Leo. He’s got to do the [ph] Sharif voice. (51:09)

Heather Gold [In a foreign accent] Arianna has a problem with you, John C Dvorak because you think you’re all that like Mr. Rupert Murdoch, but you’re not. And I am becoming Zsa Zsa Gabor. It’s morphed, it’s the whisky.

Leo Laporte It’s my fault. I brought it up.

Heather Gold I had it nailed yesterday, nailed.

Leo Laporte I brought up the Zsa Zsa and that’s twisted you. Herr Schmidt says it’s understandable to look to find someone else to blame but as Rupert Murdoch has said it’s complacency caused by past monopolies, not technology. It has been the real complacency caused by monopolies that has been the real threat to the news industry. Boy, that’s hard hitting. They are complacent monopolists.

Heather Gold They are.

John C. Dvorak All monopolists are complacent.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Heather Gold Well, I guess Eric Schmidt’s saying we are the non-complacent monopolists, because there’s so much more stuff to go out there and take! Mwahaha!

Leo Laporte He says ‘we send online news publishers a billion clicks a month from Google News and more than three billion extra visits.’

Heather Gold The 100,000 missed opportunities, am I right? Is that what’s in there?

Leo Laporte From our other services. That’s 100,000 opportunities a minute to win loyal readers and generate revenue for free. It does seem like they are giving [indiscernible] (52:14)

Heather Gold [In a foreign accent] Rupert, you are off of your game, [indiscernible] (52:15) remember I control the world.

Baratunde Thurston Well there is – I think what’s been interesting about this story is watching – it’s always fun to watch the media talk about the media, especially if they’re also talking about the media talk about the media within that. And this whole idea that we are going to de-list from Google and we have to demand these new features; there have been so many options, open to publishers for years, First Click free where you can send someone to a registration only, or even subscription site through Google and they can still read that story, but not other stories.

Heather Gold Baratunde, [ph] they could have been (52:45) blogging for the last 10 years.

Baratunde Thurston [ph] Publicly they have – (52:45) publicly available. You know, you can always use the robot exclusion protocol to not let Google scan your works, publicly available, it’s in their files. So a lot of this is posturing and negotiation and I think it’s very interesting that Murdoch one of the most hated people in the media is now aligning himself with newspapers who have generally not wanted his involvement in their business. This is a good way for him to be friends with them by pointing out the common enemy they all share.

Leo Laporte Oh, interesting. Oh, that’s a great angle.

Heather Gold That’s a different angle that we haven’t contemplated yet.

Leo Laporte That’s a great angle. I love that.

Heather Gold But do you think he’s really time to be friends with anyone, I mean it’s not because Murdoch has…

Baratunde Thurston He’s just trying to do business. I don’t think he wants to be anybody’s friend.

John C. Dvorak Like he cares.

Baratunde Thurston I think he’s trying to be a successful business person, grow market share, make more money and part of that is politicking.

Heather Gold How is he going to make more money? I don’t see how he can make more money out of this? I don’t see the money for him in this? Where is the money from…?

Leo Laporte Well, there is not…maybe not money. You are saying Baratunde you think that it’s cynical on his part, that he doesn’t believe Google is ripping him off?

Baratunde Thurston I don’t think he believe Google is ripping him off. I do think he believes there’s an opportunity for a wider range of publisher-Google relationships that don’t necessarily involve all free access to all content for anything that your new outlet produces. And so what he probably wants is some subscription basis…

Heather Gold Kickbacks.

Baratunde Thurston …[indiscernible] (54:06) that still benefit from Google sending them that traffic.

Leo Laporte Yes, he wants the best of both worlds.

Baratunde Thurston He does. He wants lots of traffic and lots of [indiscernible]. (54:14)

Heather Gold He wants to get – he doesn’t want to be treated just like you or any blogger. He wants some special deal.

Baratunde Thurston Oh he wants something better than you.

Leo Laporte Special, yeah.

Heather Gold It’s a classic Hollywood approach.

Leo Laporte That makes sense and maybe…

Baratunde Thurston Maybe it’s [indiscernible] (54:23) and just it’s a lot of a hype, but I do think he would like to see wider [indiscernible] (54:28)

Leo Laporte I think you hit the nail on the head.

Heather Gold I think you hit the nail on the head, but it’s always so entertaining having worked in the entertainment business, just the psychology of that business is so much about special relationships but it only works, the special relationship, if you are in the club. If you are outside the club, there is no incentive generally unless you think there is something wrong with you and the tech business is not nearly as club oriented…

Leo Laporte Well.

Heather Gold …as – and the dynamics work differently. I just saw Peter Guber at Supernova, he did this whole talk the other day, and all of his assumptions about business were completely 180 degrees from everyone else in the world and yet he couldn’t pick up on the fact that the kind of dollars also he’s talking about are actually small compared to the kind of dollars people in the tech business are working. So I think it’s a big psychological shift that they just hadn’t made because they think ‘you’ll think the way I think.’ They don’t see themselves well enough.

We are all special, right? Because here we are at Sun Valley, aren’t we important being special together. I know like they basically are not, I mean those guys, Ev Williams, I mean whatever; Twitter is new but they don’t really get the tech guys. They don’t think they make sense and they are trying to get to still play this special deal game and the tech guys couldn’t care less about that. That’s the thing. It’s like the – the free out of people from the nerd table is that you learn to opt out early and you don’t care and then the special deal game doesn’t apply to you. And that’s true whether it’s in high school or it’s a $10 billion business, I mean why – what incentive does Google have due to a special deal with Murdoch: none.

Leo Laporte They don’t need to.

Heather Gold There’s no dollars in it for them.

Leo Laporte So this play is…

John C. Dvorak I was going to make a comment on Heather’s long diatribe there. One too many conferences.

Leo Laporte Supernova.

Heather Gold Hey, you know, I was at [ph] Paper Former (56:03) John so I listened before I…

Leo Laporte She’s getting for this, so there you go.

John C. Dvorak Well, that’s the way to do it.

Leo Laporte I am going to conferences if they will pay me. Isn’t what Rupert Murdoch’s really saying?

Heather Gold Right.

John C. Dvorak ‘Give me some money.’

Leo Laporte ‘Give me some money.’

Heather Gold I mean I think it’s really, what you are saying Baratunde is really astute. I just don’t see how it’s going to work, because I think he’s operating on assumptions don’t apply to the people he’s trying to negotiate with.

Leo Laporte I think you are absolutely right on. That’s very interest – it’s a culture gap.

Heather Gold I think so.

Leo Laporte Yeah, yeah. And a generation gap.

Heather Gold Because he thinks – because Microsoft, who’s desperate enough, and they are the player in the game, right, with Bing that hasn’t been mentioned yet. They often – they did this with music too. They tried to line everyone in LA and said ‘well, we’ll pay you for you to use our technology’, so for now you are going to get one cash payment from Microsoft while this system works for a little while. It happened with Windows Media Player too. So I – isn’t that the deal with Bing? We want to get paid by Microsoft, they want Bing to matter, they are going to pay us all.

But part of the deal with Microsoft is we’ve got to get out of the competitor. That’s what happened when I was with Apple and we dealt with everybody in the music business. They wanted to push away QuickTime so that they could go to Windows Media Player, right. It didn’t matter in the long run, because QuickTime was already out there and broad enough that it just surpassed it anyway, not to mention at that point RealPlayer and whatever else was going on. So I don’t – that’s my guess, is ‘ooh! We can get a payment this week from Microsoft!” But I don’t see Microsoft paying them for a decade.

Leo Laporte Get it while you can because it’s not going to last.

John C. Dvorak Okay.

Leo Laporte Let me take a break. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. What do you want to talk about, and then I’ll – we’ll tease it, how about that?

Baratunde Thurston Crunch.

John C. Dvorak No, I was thinking, we talk about the CrunchPad?

Leo Laporte We didn’t, and this is the most dramatic wonderful story that we will get to in just a moment.

John C. Dvorak Well, for you.

Leo Laporte No, I am not a…

John C. Dvorak Screw you, CrunchPad!

Leo Laporte No, I’m not – screw you Leo Laporte! No I love Mike Arrington, I have nothing against him. I am just curious what you guys think this very strange story and I mean weird.

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John, you want to summarize the Crunchpad story; it’s a bizarre story. First of all, about a year ago, Mike Arrington at TechCrunch announced that they were going to – and I think this is kind of really admirable – create a tablet, open source, use Linux, work with people in the industry and make a pad, make a tablet. Was it a good idea, was it a bad idea? John, what was your reaction when you heard about the Crunchpad?

John C. Dvorak I thought the whole thing – well looking at – in hindsight now I’m thinking the whole thing may just have been one giant publicity stunt. Because he got, you know…

Heather Gold He hired Kanye West, first of all.

John C. Dvorak And of course this never happens, but it seems as though he, you know, he got his Washington Post article and he said, you know, it probably increased the circulation by 10, 20%, at least for the short term and…

Leo Laporte So what happened is earlier this week…

John C. Dvorak Well, the story was – the way he tells the story, I mean, it’s on his blog, he says these Indian partners that he worked with decided to essentially drop him out of the equation and go off and do it themselves.

Leo Laporte Two days before the public debut! So, what…

John C. Dvorak Does this make any sense to anybody?

Leo Laporte I, well – here is a couple of problems that come up right away, how could they, how do they even think they could do this, it’s called the Crunchpad, he owns the rights to that, he owns the design. He said even on his blog post is if Foxconn, two days before the iPhone comes out, says Apple we are going to sell it ourselves, thanks though, we really appreciate the help.

John C. Dvorak Well, if he is going to do the whole thing open source he’s got no patents, he has trademarks obviously, because Crunchpad would be his trademark and I’m sure he did that much, but there’s zero patents and the whole thing just kind of open source, there really is no reason to keep him around as a partner, unless they have some written agreement that these guys, you know I mean, you have to write these contracts with these vendors in an iron clad fashion, we have this problem with…

Leo Laporte Yes, but Mike is a lawyer, I mean Mike knows what he is doing.

Heather Gold Why is Mike developing products? Quite sure [ph]it’s a class act question(62:15).

John C. Dvorak That’s what makes me think it’s a publicity stunt by the way, that question you just asked.

Baratunde Thurston The way I see it is, you know, he probably did this because it was fun, because you can, and the cautionary tale from me is one that’s probably universal which is always be careful of who you do business with, you can’t anticipate everything ahead of time but also it seems a lot of this was so dependent on our super-globalized, like just-in-time…

Leo Laporte Right.

Baratunde Thurston …supply chain, outsource partners, within outsourced partners, within outsourced subcontractors world and part of the price to pay is you don’t really know who you are dealing with.

Heather Gold Synergize leverage…

Baratunde Thurston Right, that you could get such aggressive pricing and with favorable terms, maybe part of the price of that is, you know, the uncertainty that these people will actually honor the agreements you think you’ve entered into with them. I don’t know, obviously no one knows everything except the parties involved but based on reading all those post on his site I just got thinking, like wow, it seems so easy and maybe it was too easy.

Leo Laporte Charles Arthur, writing in the Guardian, points out that nobody outside of TechCrunch really seems to have laid hands on a Crunchpad.

Heather Gold So, maybe this thing is complete, like…

John C. Dvorak Publicity stunt, hello!

Heather Gold J.T. LeRoy of Tech…

Leo Laporte Who is J.T. LeRoy?

Heather Gold J.T. LeRoy is not a reference that’s going to read this crap. J.T. LeRoy was literary figure; a mysterious literary figure wrote a book called Sarah that Gus Van Sant was going to make a new film, was a big deal in sort of the lit. world, but no one had ever seen this mysterious author and when they went out, sort of like, Lady Gaga in drag…

John C. Dvorak Oh, right, right, right, right.

Heather Gold …and then turned out that it was this woman kind of putting other people out in drag as this character because…

John C. Dvorak Yes, very famous story, yes, that’s the story, yes, I heard it.

Heather Gold Had sort of created and invented this fake author whose life was…

Leo Laporte I love that stuff.

Heather Gold …so fascinating and interesting and was like turning tricks at truckstops, what have you…

John C. Dvorak There was a great article, I think was the big Guardian, was it that covered this thing…

Heather Gold Really well.

John C. Dvorak It’s a very interesting story.

Heather Gold It’s really pretty fascinating story but this idea of wanting to create, in this case, a fake author and that will sell the books, which are well written but it’s pretty hard to break through. In this case Mike already has the so-called [ph] bully (64:15) pulpit, he’s got the well known blog but maybe he creates the opposite, the fake product, I don’t know, but does it look plausible like a fake product?

Leo Laporte I think – I’m not…

John C. Dvorak It can also be a dry test.

Leo Laporte Yes.

John C. Dvorak You can do that legally, you can announce things and, I mean, there used to be…

Leo Laporte I think they built something, I think they built something…

Heather Gold His photographs at a birthday party with someone.

Leo Laporte Yes, there is a cake involved, he says, I’m…

John C. Dvorak Cake, that did it.

Leo Laporte Yes, you saw the cake.

John C. Dvorak I’m convinced there is a cake.

Leo Laporte There’s a cake. Charles Arthur continues on, I’m still puzzled how TechCrunch thought it was going to handle everything around the Crunchpad, making a successful product is only a small part of making a product successfully, you need pricing, marketing, sales channels, customer support, none of which anybody had done anything about. I think there is a point to be made that this was doomed to failure, I don’t know though if Mike faked it. Is that what you are implying John?

John C. Dvorak I’m saying the thing may have been a publicity stunt designed as such maybe he thought he was going to do something like this and kind of dicked around with the idea; I don’t know, the whole story is pretty fishy if ya asks me.

Leo Laporte It’s pretty bizarre, it’s a bizarre story.

John C. Dvorak Especially for a guy who is a lawyer who should be able to close these kinds of things so that you don’t get screwed by your vendor, or your supplier

Leo Laporte Right.

Leo Laporte Well, he says the lawsuits will fly but what’s interesting is that Mike…

John C. Dvorak I don’t get any feeling that there is any lawsuits that are going to fly unless they bring something out.

Leo Laporte What’s interesting about…

Baratunde Thurston Well, he announced that there are going to be lawsuits…

Leo Laporte He says he is suing them, but.

Baratunde Thurston Yes, he posted legal letters and things earlier today.

Heather Gold All right, okay.

Leo Laporte Oh, did he?

Heather Gold It looks like Baratunde actually did real work on this.

Leo Laporte Oh, yes, I didn’t actually look at the TechCrunch site. So maybe that would…

Baratunde Thurston I just read the links [ph] so you won’t (65:53)…

Heather Gold I went through some but I only went one or two layers down.

Leo Laporte I’m kind of mad at that way. I don’t like to read original sources; I just want to see what’s…

Heather Gold It just seems odd he would decide to make a product, and in the last minute…

Leo Laporte Well, I have to say, I think Mike – it’s not unusual for Mike to take his [ph] bow (66:08) and go home, and I think that’s part of it. He is the kind of guy…

Heather Gold You know a little something about that.

Leo Laporte He gets –well, yes, I did that myself, but he is kind of the guy who would get mad and say, all right screw you and walk away, oh, Jeez! What does that sound like. Well, just screw you and walk away.

Heather Gold You learnt from the master.

Leo Laporte You learnt – yes, I learnt from the best. He makes other people do the same thing actually. He –sometimes the way he acts… anyway. Crunchpad…

Heather Gold He likes the kind of [ph] Palin (66:33) -like end to things.

Leo Laporte He does. He…

John C. Dvorak He is a drama queen.

Leo Laporte He is exactly. Crunchpad litigation imminent. It’s been a busy week for our former partner…

John C. Dvorak Imminent.

Leo Laporte Imminent; for our former partners on the Crunchpad.

John C. Dvorak Let us know when it happens. We don’t need this imminent crap.

Leo Laporte Well, listen to this. The company has deleted their corporate blog, hired a PR firm and scheduled an event Monday morning to give their side of the story. So that…

Baratunde Thurston It’s like a soap opera. It’s like a tech soap opera.

Heather Gold The thing is totally – here is what you get when you do like something like this, you get never ending drama now which is more interesting than the product itself which might not be that good, if it came out…

Leo Laporte That is the point.

Heather Gold You get fabulous ongoing drama story, we get to see what happens in India with these guys…

Leo Laporte Yes.

Heather Gold Next thing you know they’ll have a kid, we’re not sure if it’s his, it’ll be incredible, we’ll never stop watching, his son-in-law…

John C. Dvorak There will be…

Heather Gold …was going to pose naked…

John C. Dvorak Grow up in jail.

Heather Gold Yes.

Leo Laporte This is William Randolph Hurst quality podstering is what this really is, it was a product that would – probably never would have been released…

Heather Gold Tablet, we all love to talk tab…

Leo Laporte Right.

John C. Dvorak Oh, tablet.

Heather Gold What gets you going like a blog tablet and all those…

Leo Laporte And look at all the hits and attention he is getting out of it, so I think he genuinely wanted to make it but I also think there was never a chance in hell of it being made and this is just exactly the kind of result he wanted anyway.

Heather Gold Or if he really did it, it’s a lot of time, I mean; it’s a lot of time to get…

Leo Laporte We may never know. We got to call Mike and see if he would come on the show.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, have him come on the show Leo.

Leo Laporte I could get him on.

John C. Dvorak Yes.

Heather Gold Sounds like that’s what he wants, I would think.

Leo Laporte Yes, yes.

John C. Dvorak You have to just say screw you at the end though and hang up on him.

Leo Laporte No, Mike, I have stickers. I don’t have to say any more. I have stickers.

John C. Dvorak [ph] Screw you…you do? (68:00)

Leo Laporte That says, remember kids…

Baratunde Thurston I got them too.

Leo Laporte …Uncle Leo says screw you.

Heather Gold I had one too.

John C. Dvorak I need some of those.

Heather Gold Here is mine.

Baratunde Thurston It’s on my Kindle case.

John C. Dvorak You should have made business cards out of that, that little thing.

Leo Laporte Thanks a lot.

John C. Dvorak Everybody’s got these but me.

Heather Gold Remember kid, Uncle Leo.

Leo Laporte No, actually, I have no animosity towards Mike at all.

John C. Dvorak You have no animo – you know, I have to tell, I want everybody out here to know this, Leo has no animosity towards anyone; he is the nicest guy in the world and he is honestly nice.

Heather Gold And coming from – that’s incredible coming from you, wow! That’s like you are not just nice, you are like literally the nicest person that ever lived.

Leo Laporte No, he just wants that Intel XM - X25-M, you know I know what’s going on.

Heather Gold I’m getting it John, it’s…

Leo Laporte No, no, yes, we…

Heather Gold It was here.

Leo Laporte It was our house; it was our [ph] door (68:46) prize, for whatever host came to visit today was an Intel X25-M solid state hard drive worth over $500.

Heather Gold Damn!

Leo Laporte John did have his dibs on it, but he declined to show.

Heather Gold I have the dibs now, John.

Leo Laporte So, it’s Heather…

John C. Dvorak It’s pouring rain. I’m stuck here.

Leo Laporte Oh golly! You need one of those self-driving cars.

John C. Dvorak Yes, they can park.

Leo Laporte Mininova, you guys know what Mininova is? I’m sure you do Baratunde.

Baratunde Thurston Oh yes.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Heather Gold It’s like a small Lisa Nova. It’s really tiny.

Leo Laporte Right. It’s – well, after Pirate Bay disappeared it was the largest torrent site on the Internet. Last week the site’s founders decided, after being threatened with fines, to pull off all the illegal torrents and say we are going to be a legal torrent site. They deleted over one million torrent files; by the way torrent files are not the pirated stuff, they are a small meta file that says how to get it.

Heather Gold Right. That’s right. A pointer, if you will.

Leo Laporte A pointer.

Baratunde Thurston Pointer, yes.

Leo Laporte So, I don’t know, you are the lawyer here, but it seems to me that that’s…

Heather Gold [ph] Kind of marginal on the lawyer (69:54), yes.

Leo Laporte Well, you studied in law – you went to law school.

Heather Gold I know what they are like, those people.

Leo Laporte You are a lawyer like I’m a college graduate.

Heather Gold Nice, okay.

Leo Laporte Okay?

Heather Gold So you want to know if it’s okay to point to it?

Leo Laporte Yes.

Heather Gold Yes, it’s pretty hard to not.

Leo Laporte That’s what Pirate Bay always said, is what, hey, we got no illegal stuff on our site, we merely have torrent metafiles.

Heather Gold Right. I mean, well, criminally, you’d have to prove intent for it to be criminal.

Leo Laporte Well, the intent is criminal, there is no doubt about that, what are you talking about? They are saying that they are helping people pirate, and I think that’s where the prosecution in the Pirate Bay case came from, which is you don’t have to store the files, you are telling people how to steal. It’s like if you have a bomb making manual and you put it online, you don’t have to blow up a bomb…

Heather Gold It’s tricky with the whole first amendment, do you think, I don’t know…

Leo Laporte There’s no first amendment when it comes to BitTorrent.

Heather Gold If I publish a whole how-to-murder somebody article on my post…

Leo Laporte Is that legal?

Heather Gold That’s what I’m saying. I don’t intend to kill anybody in particular but I’m, like, explaining a way…

John C. Dvorak Is it legal? We need to get [ph] Cory on (1:10:52)

Leo Laporte Oh, don’t get, don’t get [ph] Cory (1:10:56). After five years of …

Heather Gold I am a big – I mean, my response to law school in general and this issue is usually it’s what can you – the law is so slow.

Leo Laporte Right.

Heather Gold It takes so long to catch up with you and the way the law gets put into effect isn’t about, like, what’s right or wrong, it’s whatever you can afford and whoever ….

Leo Laporte What you can get away with.

Heather Gold …wants to handle, like, pushing that forward, so usually just practically what is going to happen, thats what matters.

Leo Laporte Here’s a good example [indiscernible] (71:18) Happy Birthday. I am just going to leave it like that. After five years …

John C. Dvorak Let me say something about this topic. Just that – this story just broke this morning it was a – there was a bar in England, and I think it’s on the ZDNet UK, a bar in England had a Wi-Fi connection, a guy came in the bar, used the free Wi-Fi that was in the bar.

Leo Laporte Oh, yes.

Heather Gold Nice.

John C. Dvorak Downloaded something and now they – apparently they – instead are suing the guy who did the bad deed or suing the bar tender of the bar.

Heather Gold Right, because [ph] he’s in (1:11:46) …money, that’s why.

Leo Laporte They were fined $13,000, £8,000 - $13,000 because somebody illegally downloaded copyrighted material on their Wi-Fi hot spot.

John C. Dvorak This is the tail wagging the dog again but I think there is more to it than that. I think they would love to get to that point where they could sue the manufacturer, in other words they would sue the messenger.

Leo Laporte That’s [ph] just next (1:12:12).

John C. Dvorak I mean, you know what it’s going to lead. This is that argument about sue the gun manufacturer for somebody using one of their guns that shoots somebody.

Leo Laporte Well, I am behind that, that’s okay.

John C. Dvorak I know you are.

Leo Laporte Yes, that’s why I am liberal. I am a liberal.

John C. Dvorak You are a liberal?

Leo Laporte Yes.

John C. Dvorak I am against it.

Leo Laporte I’m [ph] ag-in it(1:12:2). All right. So that’s story number one of ridiculous, appalling, bizarre copyright police. Got another one for you. It happens in Chicago, just outside of Illinois. Chicago is still in Illinois, I think.

John C. Dvorak It’s in Illinois, yes.

Leo Laporte [ph] Let me say (72:43), Illinois, just outside of Chicago. I think that’s what I meant to say. Just outside of Chicago, a small movie theater, young lady decides – I think she is 22 years old, decides to have a birthday party for her sister. So they go, they go to the movie theater, they are showing New Moon, the new Twilight film, I bet you love that.

Heather Gold I so am not seeing New Moon.

Leo Laporte If you love [ph] Glee (1:12:58)…

Heather Gold I know that you forced yourself, Baratunde, to go through this experience…I followed your …

Leo Laporte If you love [ph] Glee (1:13:02), how can you not love sexy vampires.

Heather Gold …I saw your tweets. How can I not love sexy vampires? Well, you know they are not my flavor of vampires. If we can…

Leo Laporte Don’t they have females [ph] go to (73:12) Twilights?

Heather Gold Are there women vampires in this, are there girl vampires?

Baratunde Thurston Yeah, there are.

Heather Gold Oh, well, but they’re – it’s teens, they are babies.

Leo Laporte Now what do you think, now what do you think?

Heather Gold Possibly.

Leo Laporte Now, how do you like me?

Heather Gold Possibly. But it’s like a – isn’t it kind of a pretty sexist movie?

Leo Laporte I don’t know.

Baratunde Thurston It’s a horrible movie.

Leo Laporte [ph]Interpret (73:25) teens.

Baratunde Thurston You should check out this great mash-up, Buffy versus Edward.

Heather Gold I like Buffy.

Baratunde Thurston Its male feminist dude did a beautiful sort of comparison, humorous take-down of the images that Buffy stood for and the images of stalkerism and fear and creepiness that Edward Collin, the chief vampire, stands for.

Heather Gold Yeah, I am not into chicks getting their powers through the creepiness of the dude they are doing…

John C. Dvorak You know they – this phenomenon.

Baratunde Thurston What’s the story here, Leo?

John C. Dvorak This Twilight phenomenon is the beanie babies of this era.

Heather Gold Oh my god, you’ve got it.

Leo Laporte This is Buffy versus Edward. Here’s come Edward, he’s very pale. Oh my god, she sees him. He is walking into Sunnydale High School.

Heather Gold He needs his brows shaved.

Leo Laporte He is so white.

Heather Gold Just like [ph] gothy (1:14:19).

Leo Laporte Is that [ph] Harold Raines (1:14:23). She just seems, like, mildly annoyed by him.

John C. Dvorak This is a good mash-up.

Leo Laporte I am going to get in trouble for playing this.

Heather Gold Why? I’m talking about it.

Leo Laporte Is it okay, Baratunde? Are you going to be my attorney?

Heather Gold We are talking about it.

Baratunde Thurston I’ll be your attorney.

Leo Laporte All right.

Baratunde Thurston It’s all good. Yeah, my Twitter followers will defend you.

Leo Laporte It’s news, right?

Baratunde Thurston I forced myself to watch New Moon and I did a – what I called a live Hate-Tweeting [ph] of the experience (74:54)

Heather Gold I enjoyed that, actually.

Leo Laporte A Live Hate-Tweeting?

Heather Gold Yeah, its [indiscernible] (75:00) when you live tweet something that you know you are going to hate.

John C. Dvorak [ph] Ray (75:01), your sound is all screwed up, [ph] I’m getting you, it (75:03) 30 times over.

Leo Laporte Well, do something about that. You’re blaming me for that?

Baratunde Thurston Chat room, you guys good with my sound [indiscernible] (1:15:12)

Leo Laporte No, everybody is fine. No, no, no, no. I am sitting here. I’ve got headphones on. Everything’s fine. It’s just John. He doesn’t understand how that internet works. Look at him, he’s a baffled, baffled man.

Heather Gold So you did your Live Hate-Tweet on the New Moon, you are saying?

Baratunde Thurston That was just the point. Just trying to do a little Twitter innovation. But it was also – I have read the books, sort of under pressure and wanted to …

Leo Laporte Oh god. You are…

Heather Gold Why did you read the books?

Leo Laporte [ph] Wanting (75:41) for punishment?

John C. Dvorak I see the problem

Baratunde Thurston It’s not that I – I mean, it was a group activity. I would put it this way, I was married when I listened to these books on a long road trip. I am no longer, and I am not going to blame Twilight.

Leo Laporte Wait a minute. Twilight broke up your marriage?

Heather Gold That’s evil.

Baratunde Thurston I am not saying that, I am just going to lay these facts out in a certain order, unless you know that…

Leo Laporte Oh my god.

Baratunde Thurston …the Live Hate-Tweeting was a very cathartic experience.

Leo Laporte Twilight ended Baratunde’s marriage.

Heather Gold [ph] Is that the (76:04) fault of that stuff?

Leo Laporte Oh my god. See what it does.

Heather Gold If you want to – there are some perfectly good lesbian vamp… go watch Hungry. Want to see good lesbian vampire stuff, go watch Hunger, yes.

Leo Laporte Susan Sarandon, there’s a good movie.

Heather Gold Catherine Deneuve.

Leo Laporte Catherine Deneuve.

Heather Gold It’s the way it should be done.

Leo Laporte They are hungry for each other.

Heather Gold Or even anything that [indiscernible] (1:16:21).

John C. Dvorak Let’s get back to the TECH.

Heather Gold Okay.

Leo Laporte The story is and it began…

Heather Gold Is there some defragging that we can bring up?

Leo Laporte There is this – no there is a story here. So this 22 year old wants to throw a birthday party for her sister. They go to a movie theater, New Moon is playing, she happens to have a camcorder. It’s a birthday party.

John C. Dvorak Oh yeah.

Leo Laporte She pulls it out to take some pictures of her sister and the cake. Happens to be a couple of frames of New Moon that get in the shot, an usher comes down the aisle, grabs her, brings her out to the lobby. The movie theater owner calls the police, presses charges, she spends two nights in jail.

Heather Gold Jail?

Leo Laporte In jail, is now…..

Heather Gold Is this real?

Leo Laporte This is real. This is America.

Heather Gold What town?

John C. Dvorak America 2009.

Leo Laporte Chicago, just outside of Illinois.

Baratunde Thurston Just outside of Chicago.

John C. Dvorak We [ph] have the (77:08) name. Find this theater and shame them.

Leo Laporte We know the theater. In fact [indiscernible] (1:17:14) would you give me the name of the theater, because we will say the name of the theater. In any event, she is facing three years in prison for a felony charge because she accidentally got pictures of New Moon on her camcorder.

Baratunde Thurston I have a point of inquiry here. So this birthday party was happening …..

Heather Gold Yes, counselor.

Baratunde Thurston … inside of a movie theater?

Heather Gold Yes.

Leo Laporte You’ve never had a birthday in a movie theater?

Heather Gold Baratunde, do you reckon...

Baratunde Thurston With the cake?

Heather Gold Yes.

Baratunde Thurston No, I have never seen. I go to movies all the time, and I never see people having other events.

Heather Gold Yes, I can see this.

Leo Laporte You know, if you hadn’t left your wife, you’d have had children and you would know about this.

Heather Gold In the Mid West.

Leo Laporte I am sorry, Baratunde, I love you. I didn’t – I love you.

John C. Dvorak That was mean, Leo. I take back what I said earlier.

Leo Laporte I take – I am so sorry, Baratunde. I just – something about you just brings out the worst in me. I am so sorry.

Baratunde Thurston I love you too, Leo, everything’s great.

Heather Gold He’s touching the screen, wow.

Leo Laporte I take the world of you, seriously.

John C. Dvorak The Muvico Theater in Rosemont, Illinois.

Leo Laporte Thank you very much. M-U-V-I-C-O.

Heather Gold Great.

Leo Laporte And the last time the chat room put the information and they gave us a phone number as well. But I’m not going to give that out.

John C. Dvorak We don’t need to call.

Heather Gold I am still married, although thanks New York State Senators, not really in New York, but we didn’t see New Moon, that’s why I think.

Leo Laporte Where can you be married, what state?

Heather Gold I am married in four states, and Canada.

John C. Dvorak Married in four states!

Leo Laporte I got a Canadian story, speaking of Canada.

Heather Gold I am one of the 18,000 special couples married in California and ….

Leo Laporte Really, so they grandfathered you in?

Heather Gold They had me, [ph] (indiscernible) and Helen (1:18:45), , yeah, we are allowed. Then anyone else’s in a peep show booth, they are allowed just for the time they’re in the booth.

Leo Laporte Because we like to watch.

Heather Gold Yeah. And then Iowa, Massachusetts.

Leo Laporte Iowa? That’s where my food comes from.

Heather Gold New Hampshire.

John C. Dvorak All right, all right, all right. Let’s get back to the topic.

Leo Laporte Canadian – or you want to say some more about New Moon?

Heather Gold No, this woman is going to jail. I can’t – what’s the point?

Leo Laporte She is jail. She spent two days in jail, which by the way…

Heather Gold How can we get her out of jail, use an army here. She cannot be in jail.

Leo Laporte She is out of jail now. But she is going to go on trial for a felony.

Heather Gold That’s insane.

Leo Laporte Now presumably the judge is going to – somebody here with some brains…

Heather Gold How can – no, no for a criminal, you have to have [ph] mens rea (79:25), you have to have intent to commit the crime to be convicted of a crime. A civil count maybe, but not a criminal count.

Leo Laporte But the theater owner can’t be expected to do, know that. The police can’t be expected to know that. They have to go to trial, right?

Heather Gold Yeah, but they would throw it out right away, if this is an accidental thing.

Leo Laporte Of course the judge will throw it out. But she already spent two days.

John C. Dvorak Not necessarily.

Leo Laporte But she already spent two nights in jail.

Heather Gold John, why not?

John C. Dvorak Because the – some of these judges are – they don’t understand what’s going on. They get pressure on them, they got – there’s a law, it’s very clear and sometimes the judge might want to get into the case like this because it gives them some – it’s him or her, some publicity. There’s a million reasons. Yeah, there’s no guarantee that they are going to throw it out. If they were guaranteed to throw it out, they would have already done so.

Leo Laporte I hope she has a good lawyer; this is just a travesty.

John C. Dvorak Don’t take the law for granted.

Heather Gold You guys there’s people – I just want to say, in the IRC room, saying that if I mentioned anything about being gay you’re losing your PG rating. I just have to say that that’s what’s coming out.

Heather Gold It’s crazy.

Leo Laporte They’re insane. Go watch Glee. Go Watch Glee. There’s actual homosexuals.

John C. Dvorak How you are going to lose your PG – you are the most PG gay person I know.

Heather Gold I don’t have to say anything; it’s just existing. I, apparently…

Leo Laporte Apparently you’re not okay.

Heather Gold …I’m a walking X-rating for existing.

Leo Laporte Just ignore them; they’re trolls. It’s meaningless.

John C. Dvorak It’s the hair inside that a huge hat, that has everyone really baffled…

Leo Laporte Yeah, I think the tuque is really the problem, to be honest with you.

Heather Gold The tuque? Shall I take it off?

Leo Laporte Oh my god.

Heather Gold Usually people pay big dollars…

Leo Laporte My god, Heather, you’re beautiful.

John C. Dvorak Oh, we thought you had a huge head.

Heather Gold No, it’s tiny.

Leo Laporte It’s a tuque!

Heather Gold [ph] Fragging (1:20:51) for the…

Leo Laporte No, no, no.

Heather Gold I’m upset that this person’s in jail.

Leo Laporte I am too. We got two stories that are incredibly upsetting having to do with the copyright police. I mean it’s just appalling.

Heather Gold It makes no sense. And I have to tell you guys, I was on the other side of this copyright thing, once upon a time when I worked for New Line Cinema when I was doing legal stuff for them, and I didn’t understand my first tech job. I remember the one coder was like ‘information wants to be free!’ I was like ‘you are crazy. You never going to have an IPO, I don’t know what you’re thinking now…’

John C. Dvorak Who know that information had desires.

Heather Gold Exactly. But it’s just not workable, it makes no sense.

Baratunde Thurston Well one of the interesting angles – tech angles on this – especially to the Mininova case, when the Pirate Bay was shut down there was no noticeable, measureable drop in BitTorrent traffic, so Mininova site traffic is down 66%...

Heather Gold Right.

Baratunde Thurston …searches are down, downloads are down.

Leo Laporte There is no such thing a legal BitTorrent site; nobody wants it.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah…

Leo Laporte What are you going to get, a Linux distribution?

Baratunde Thurston Yeah, so people will find another way.

Heather Gold No, aren’t there folks, though, that distribute their own like well-known musicians and filmmakers put their stuff out on BitTorrent.

Leo Laporte Yeah, we distributed the show in the early days of TWiT because we didn’t have bandwidth provided by AOL or CacheFly, we used BitTorrent very successfully.

Heather Gold Once you take your sense of how to make business out of…

John C. Dvorak I remember that.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Heather Gold …I mean you’re a comic Baratunde, I am too, I put my stuff out there creative commons, don’t you? I mean you’re trying to make a career different way, right?

Baratunde Thurston Yeah, yeah, I just released this movie, it’s called New Moon. I encourage everybody to go to BitTorrent and download it, yeah.

Leo Laporte And tape it. Yeah. Bring your camcorders kids. Well look at this, actually today look at it; successful bands invite tapers in.

Heather Gold Right.

Leo Laporte You know, the Grateful Dead started it. But if you are smart band, you bring in tapers or even better people like Umphrey's McGee, they offer you a tape at the end of the show. They say hey, you don’t have to tape it because we’ve got CDs. No, I mean, come on. Here’s a smart musician. This is from – he is from Saskatoon but don’t hold that against him.

Heather Gold Hey. Yay Saskatoon.

Leo Laporte He knew. I don’t know how he knew. He’s the guy – his name is Nate Heagy. Somehow that the Google car – the Google Street View car was about to come by and shoot his street, so he make sure that he got his guitar out and a music stand with the name of his new album and posed himself and he’s on Google Street View promoting the album!

Baratunde Thurston Genius, Genius. I love this guy, and I will buy his music.

Heather Gold Whey they shot, when they were capturing the street. That guy – see now I am going to buy his album just because he did that. That’s enough.

John C. Dvorak This is fantastic.

Leo Laporte Isn’t that brilliant? Now that’s the new media.

Baratunde Thurston Geek marketing.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Baratunde Thurston It’s the best marketing there is. I love this guy.

Leo Laporte Let’s give him credit, Nate Heagy, Heagy.

Heather Gold Heagy.

Leo Laporte You’re Canadian, how you pronounce that?

Heather Gold Hee-gee. He’ll own a tuque for sure.

Leo Laporte Heagy.

Heather Gold Nate Heagy.

Leo Laporte He’s from Saskatoon, eh?

John C. Dvorak Eh.

Leo Laporte His album is called Fear Salesman and it’s great. It’s really great. Yeah.

John C. Dvorak Yeah.

Leo Laporte How did he know though, well it says he learned the pattern of the Street View car.

Heather Gold That’s even better.

Leo Laporte He was really geeky.

Baratunde Thurston [ph] He actually spotted it himself or did he call a bunch of his friends? (1:23:41)

John C. Dvorak I’ve seen other examples of people that have seen the thing and then they get in their car and they track it down and then they get it front of and tried to have their picture taken over and over and over.

Leo Laporte So you keep showing up over and over and over

John C. Dvorak Yeah, you just shoot in front of the thing and then you park or whatever and let the thing go by and then you shoot in front of it again.

Leo Laporte There was a Street View flash mob, did you see that?

Baratunde Thurston The parade and the [indiscernible] (1:24:02) thing?

Leo Laporte Was that – do you think that was fake or do you think that was real?

Baratunde Thurston I think that – I mean those are real people.

Leo Laporte No, no, I know it’s real but I mean. I guess by fake I mean…

Heather Gold They’re not zombies!

John C. Dvorak Fake like that phony-baloney thing they did in Grand Central Station?

Leo Laporte That was fake.

John C. Dvorak They just used a bunch of [indiscernible] as though it actually happened? (1:24:16)

Heather Gold You talking about Improv Everywhere.

Leo Laporte Improv Everywhere is real, man.

Heather Gold That’s not – that’s a real flash mob, that not fake.

John C. Dvorak Hah. That looks so phony.

Leo Laporte You don’t think that’s real? has the Top 10 Moments Caught on Google Maps Street View, here’s Viking Quest in Action, it’s a couple of guys having some sort of samurai battle. Drunk Dude Passed Out on his lawn.

John C. Dvorak Yeah I love that one.

Leo Laporte Here is Marriage Proposal. Proposal 2.0 Marry Me Leslie. And Hi Mom. I guess they just – well the cars are pretty distinctive but I guess you’d have to know that they’re coming.

Heather Gold Do they have a big Google sign?

Leo Laporte Here’s a dead deer. Ooh that’s not good.

Heather Gold Is there a picture anywhere of the car so we can see what it looks like?

Leo Laporte It’s pretty obvious. Here’s a guy about to shoot somebody.

John C. Dvorak [ph] There are (1:25:02) pictures on the web of the car.

Leo Laporte That’s a street view….

John C. Dvorak With cameras all over the top.

Leo Laporte That’s a street view you’d like to see. Lots of Public Urination; ok, we’ll pass on that. Kid falls off his bike.

John C. Dvorak Didn’t Patrick Norton have a picture on here?

Leo Laporte Patrick Norton is in Google Street View and he was the emerging.

Heather Gold Patrick Norton as in, like, the Java guy who went to jail guy?

Leo Laporte No TechTV guy. House on fire. You think they’d stop and try to put it out but I guess it was – they have...

Baratunde Thurston They might have called it in.

Leo Laporte They might have called it in.

Baratunde Thurston They are not fire fighters.

Leo Laporte Street Fight. And here we go Girl Flashes Google Car.

John C. Dvorak Yay.

Heather Gold Why I love geeks is that’s only number 10.

Leo Laporte That would be number one on any other site.

Heather Gold Love that.

Leo Laporte You’re right. That’s a good point. I do love that.

Heather Gold You’re like the guy – Nate Heagy needs to be number one, people.

Leo Laporte Nate Heagy, number one.

Heather Gold Let’s sell that record for him.

Leo Laporte Buy the album.

Heather Gold Record, listen to me. I sound like a 90 year old.

Leo Laporte It’s a Vinyl album. I went to a record store with my kid about five years ago and I said ‘let’s go get some records;’ he said ‘what are those dad?’ That’s when you know.

Heather Gold Oh my god. Julian, my little seven year old pal, he saves – he does chores so he can get money to earn – he spends all the money on iPhone Apps like the second he gets it, that’s all he wants.

Leo Laporte Really?

Heather Gold Yes. It’s all about iPhone Apps.

Leo Laporte So HP has got a thing here with this printer, they’re smart.

Heather Gold If you’re going to play a game on it maybe.

Leo Laporte Game.

Baratunde Thurston You don’t want to stand in front of you printer and play a game; that’s weird.

Heather Gold It’s the HP thing.

Baratunde Thurston Maybe while you wait for you print-out, I guess you stand there.

Heather Gold It reminds me of when Cisco decided they were going to put computers in your fridge and you were going to spend all your time in your kitchen, I mean I think sometimes people…

Leo Laporte I want to do a quick Audible ad and then we are going to get a couple more stories, wrap things up. I also have a survey I’d like to ask you to participate in, actually I could tell you that right now. We are doing an advertiser survey at and I appreciate if you’d take it – just we’re not trying to get personal information about you, we won’t collect any information we’re just trying to get a sense of who the heck listens to this crap. So if you’d go to and click the link – is that you John? Did you make tha…?

John C. Dvorak Yeah, it was a sound effect.

Leo Laporte That was good. That was good. I want to recommend an Audible book. is the place I go to get all my audio books. I love and I know you do too because people have been supportive, very supportive about our Audible advertising and then Audible knows that this is the number one way people sign up for audio books from Audible. We got a special, special audio deal for you right now. We are giving you a thank you present from

Anybody ever read Larry Niven’s classic Ringworld? Oh. Yeah all three nerds in the room; love it. The engineers love it.

Heather Gold Wow.

Leo Laporte It is one of the great science fiction books of all-time. It is huge. The ring is built out of, I think a planet like Jupiter, like a gas giant. And they build the ring for the world; it’s 93 million miles in radius which is one Earth orbit. The walls are huge; 1000 feet high walls at each rim let in the sun and prevent air from escaping, you got to keep the air from getting out of the Ringworld. It’s stronger than any planet before it. No need for a roof because it’s going at 770 miles a second, which creates a gravitational force.

Ringworld is one of the great sci-fi books of all-time. Hugo award winner 1970 for best novel, Nebula award for best novel. A 1972 Ditmars award – that’s the Australian science fiction award, and you can get a free through December 13, because this is how we thank you, you don’t even need a credit card, this is so great. Audible is giving you this book. They actually asked me, they gave me about 12 books that they could give away, and I chose Ringworld, I just think this is the one everybody – if you haven’t read it, even if you have, listening to – everybody’s read it but now it’s – there’s an audio version of it and listening to it is so fantastic.

This is by the way not just for our US listeners, this is something new, I know sometimes I get complaints people say, I can’t do – in the US and Canada, go to, that’s in the US and Canada, we did that just for you by the way, I hope you appreciate it Heather.

Heather Gold I do appreciate it, Canadians do appreciate being included.

Leo Laporte Oh I know. I get so many complaints from people say, we can’t do the…

Heather Gold It’s very un-Canadian to complain, so you may not get nearly as many complaints as there are [ph] miffed (1:29:20) Canadians.

Leo Laporte More people are thinking it than saying it.

Heather Gold That’s right. They just think it and sigh. That’s how…

John C. Dvorak Canadians complain a lot.

Leo Laporte In the UK, In Germany, And in France,

Heather Gold All of Germany is Colonel Klink.

Leo Laporte [Indiscernible fake German] and No credit card needed. Not every country can you get this but their suggestion is try the URL of the country closest to you, in most cases you should be able to get this. Audible, that is fantastic.

John Dvorak You’ve gone worldwide, Leo.

Leo Laporte We’re global, baby.

Baratunde Thurston I just finished – I came back to Audible recently.

John Dvorak So, you said to look up a book – the book I’m reading, I might want to finish it on Audible.

Leo Laporte What’s the book? Is it Cleaving: A Story of Marriage, Meat and Obsession?

John Dvorak Let me see here. “Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism” by Lenin.

Leo Laporte Vladimir Ilyich Lenin? I don’t think they – they probably don’t have any Lenin.

Heather Gold I want to read the Cleaving book.

Leo Laporte This is – you remember Julie & Julia?

Heather Gold Yeah, Julie Powell.

Leo Laporte It’s Julie Powell’s new book.

Heather Gold I loved the movie.

John Dvorak What about Lenin?

Heather Gold I loved the movie, Nora Ephron, I love her.

Leo Laporte Let me see. Yeah. So it’s a new book about – she decided to become a butcher. Did you see that?

Heather Gold I love that, she became a butcher.

Leo Laporte She was trying to avoid – she was thinking about her – like she was falling in love with a guy.

Heather Gold Didn’t her marriage not work out so well, Baratunde?

Leo Laporte Yeah, she fell in love with a guy – Baratunde? Why did you say Baratunde?

Heather Gold Because you were making it a thread, I’m trying to play the thread. Sorry, I didn’t mean to –

Leo Laporte Let’s see, here is – here’s Lenin –

Heather Gold Maybe there’ll be tips for –

Leo Laporte [ph] Moodle (90:53) Comrade, Nikolai Lenin, Great Blunders in History, The Russian Civil War, Times –

John C. Dvorak That’ll be good.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Times Magpie: A Walk in Prague, The Greatest Speeches of All – no, they do not have that, I’m sorry. Baratunde, do you have a book for us?

Baratunde Thurston Yes, I do. I just finished Stephen King’s Under the Dome.

Leo Laporte Oh yeah, you were reading that last time.

Baratunde Thurston I started reading it a few weeks back, I finished it a week ago on a walk home. It was really fun, a weird book, set in Maine with weird people. But a very kind of science-based show actually, I think a lot of the tech audience – he spent a lot of time researching what happens in the circumstance that he set up and had a sort of a co-writer vetting all his science.

John Dvorak You said you finished reading it on a walk home.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Baratunde Thurston Yes.

John Dvorak How does that work?

Leo Laporte In New York they walk.

Baratunde Thurston It’s an audio book.

Leo Laporte Yeah, you listen.

John Dvorak So you finished listening to it on a walk home?

Leo Laporte Oh, don’t start being –

Baratunde Thurston [Laughter] You were thinking about that, I think I remember that from earlier, so.

Leo Laporte He read it, he read it, he read it. When you’re listening to an audiobook from Audible, you’re getting the book. You’re getting the full book –

John Dvorak All right, I’m just saying, I just wondered about what it meant. It sounds like he’s wandering around reading a book while walking, which is dangerous, I’m just hoping you didn’t hurt yourself.

Baratunde Thurston No.

Leo Laporte All the words that are on the printed page go into your ear and they stay, unlike printed page, where sometimes they go around your head. They go into your ear when you listen to Audible and you get the entire book. I’m gonna give you a way – Okay, I’m going to give you three free books today.

Heather Gold Nice.

Leo Laporte First of all, Ringworld from Larry Niven.

Heather Gold Nice.

Leo Laporte Second of all, if you go to, TWiT and the number 2, you can sign up for the platinum account, first two books are free. Get Under the Dome, that’s 34 hours of great Stephen King material. And then I’ll let you pick anything else you want, I’m listening to – I’m finishing now –

Heather Gold Hitchhiker’s Guide?

Leo Laporte Hitchhiker’s Guide, they have it all. Even the new one, there’s a new one that just came out.

Heather Gold Really?

Leo Laporte Douglas Adams obviously is no longer with us, but there’s another Hitchhiker’s Guide.

Heather Gold Wouldn’t it be kind of intimidating to try to write Douglas Adams without him?

Leo Laporte Wouldn’t it be? Yeah.

Heather Gold I don’t know that I’d want that.

Leo Laporte I know.

Heather Gold It’s like covering Sittin’ On The Dock of the Bay. Mistake.

[Leo attempts to whistle Sittin’ On The Dock of the Bay.]

Leo Laporte Go to – boy, that was a mild laugh. That was about the mildest token laugh I’ve ever – do you get laughs like that sometimes, you guys? You probably do, where you just…

John Dvorak Yeah, most – I think it’s what they get most of the time, from the sounds of it.

Leo Laporte It’s like uh huh, yeah, right. Under the Dome: A Novel, that’s one of our free books, go to and make sure – yeah, slow clap. Make sure you go to to get your free copy, no credit card – you should all be going there right now, of Larry Niven’s Ringworld, one of the greatest science fiction books of all time. I loved it. I’m just finishing Larry’s book with Jerry; The Mote in God’s Eye. Actually I just started, not finishing, it’s a long book. That would be another good one to add to your list., thank you Audible! This is a free book. Even for Canadians.

Heather Gold Nice. They could use something free, because they’re stuck paying Rogers all of their money. There’s a joke for you Canadians.

Leo Laporte You know, Rogers just did something kind of interesting. There’s no Hulu in Canada, as you know.

Heather Gold A tragedy.

Leo Laporte But they’re doing a Canadian Hulu, basically, if you’re a Rogers subscriber.

Heather Gold So you can see the old episodes of The Beachcombers? Anything I’m going to refer to is going to make no sense to anyone.

Leo Laporte [ph] Agrassi, they loved [ph] Agrassi (93:58).

Heather Gold [ph] Agrassi, Hockey Day (93:59) in Canada.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I love Hockey night. The Grey Cup. Just thinking of Canadian things to say.

Heather Gold There’s lots of great Canadian things, but I just don’t think they’re going to –

Leo Laporte Corner Gas, Corner Gas.

Heather Gold This Week Has 22 Minutes just sent a great comic up to go try to introduce Sarah Palin and totally pwned her last week. It was awesome.

Leo Laporte Did they actually do an interview?

Heather Gold She did. Yeah – well she kind of got her mike into her face, like outside, she had to run around, it was awesome.

Leo Laporte Wow.

John Dvorak Who was it? Was it Jerry or?

Heather Gold Marge, the conservative, you know?

John Dvorak Oh yeah, she’s good.

Heather Gold She’s really good, and she got her to tell Canadians, conservative Canadians to ‘keep the faith, we can privatize your healthcare system.’

Leo Laporte I want to do an update on a story we did on TWiG yesterday about EtherPad, we were talking about Google’s –

Heather Gold Right, there’s a good update; really good update.

Leo Laporte Right, Google’s crappy acquisition of EtherPad, EtherPad, which is everybody’s – all the geeks love EtherPad, it was a kind of a collaborative – web-based collaborative editing program. Google bought them this week and closed them down! Just with no notice –

John Dvorak Why, what as the point of this?

Leo Laporte Why did they buy it or why did they close them down?

Baratunde Thurston [ph] They wanted (95:00) the engineers?

Leo Laporte They bought them because it’s a better Wave than Wave, they actually need it.

John Dvorak So they bought them to close them down so they could make their stuff – so there would be no competition. This is illegal.

Leo Laporte I don’t know, maybe they wanted the engineers.

Heather Gold I thought the same thing.

But in any event, they obviously heard the moans, because Google and the EtherPad folks have said, okay, sorry, whoops, we didn’t – my bad. They say we’re going to – plan to open source the code to EtherPad, the underlying AppChat web framework. We’re going to continue maintaining new Pad creation, they’ve turned on new Pad creation again – till we’ve open sourced it. And we’re working with the Google Wave team to get all EtherPad users a chance to try out Google Wave within the next couple of weeks. Talk about making it good. Complete turn on a dime.

I saw a few people’s comments saying, well, we’ll see if they really open source it. But at least EtherPad lives on, you can still use it.

Baratunde Thurston What was the primary way that people were using EtherPad?

Leo Laporte Oh, there’s a lot of ways. Programmers were using it to do coding, writers were using it, there was a lot of really interesting, innovative ways to use it.

Heather Gold It sounded like from what Gina was saying yesterday –

Leo Laporte Gina loved it.

Heather Gold – that it was having more success than Google Wave, in the sense that people really – and I don’t know how four or five people could work on a blog post together at the same time, but apparently they were.

Leo Laporte It was very cool stuff. It was a web-based sub-ether edifice.

Heather Gold So it’s good that they responded quickly to the backlash, Google did.

Leo Laporte It’s amazing, yeah.

Heather Gold Maybe they were listening to TWiT – TWiG yesterday.

Leo Laporte We give them props for that.

Speaking of flops; the CableCARD, FCC now says yeah, it didn’t work so well. Boy, I have to say [ph] Julius Chanakowski (96:47) again on the side of the angels on this one. The FCC mandated that cable companies in the U.S. offer a CableCARD, which would allow you to use your computer or maybe a cable card enabled TV and bypass the set top box, give you the functionality built into the hardware, that you don’t want an extra box, right?

But the cable companies would put it in the back, they’d never tell employees about it. They had to offer it, but boy, they sure didn’t offer it willingly. FCC says, all right, it’s been an abysmal failure, and they’re looking for new ideas, for a new set of rules in order to open access to video streams from cable and they say, IPTV operators. I’m up for it.

Baratunde Thurston I had a CableCARD in my – I had the series 3 TiVo HD for a little while and went through the CableCARD set up, and it took – first of all, it took a lot of time for my tech to actually install it. He kept calling back to the cable – operators getting codes on his magic little box.

And the idea is great, because we have so many boxes plugged into our TV like, how smart does the cable box have to be to process video signals and do some two-way interactions for our program guide and video on demand. Like my XBOX should be able to do it, my computer should be able to do it, my Apple TV should be able to do it. So for a greener world and a more [ph] efficient (98:04) household –

Leo Laporte I agree with you, yeah.

Baratunde Thurston We should clearly have this. But yeah, that didn’t quite work out.

Leo Laporte They didn’t want it to work out, Baratunde. They really didn’t want it to work out.

Baratunde Thurston No, I’m sure there was another more legitimate reason than that, Leo. Because these cable guys, if theres one thing they like –

Leo Laporte [Laughter] They’re on the side of the angels, yeah. What are you guys – real quickly, we’ll wrap up because we got to go. But what do you think of Comcast buying NBC?

Heather Gold I was just thinking that, as you were talking about the cable story. I mean I guess we’re just going to have less and less – I mean why, once again –

Leo Laporte You know what, let them all collapse, let them all conglomerate and merge, I don’t care.

Heather Gold Says Leo from his central cottage of power.

Leo Laporte I don’t need ‘em, baby!

Heather Gold I mean the thing is, this is really the future for them and they have no idea that this is happening – do they even know that you’re [ph] happy (98:49), like, somebody just working?

Leo Laporte No. They have no idea.

Heather Gold You have a working media business that you’re happy with, with an awesome army of people you’re responsive to and you do a great job. And this is not what they’re thinking about at all. Because how can they make money off of this?

Leo Laporte How can we merge Comcast and NBC, it’s crazy. John what do you – any thoughts on this?

John Dvorak I like the idea, I think it’s about – what happened to my – what is this color?

Leo Laporte Ah, you’re in the special zone, you’re in –

Baratunde Thurston You’re in a dark room.

Leo Laporte I think John’s in the fifth circle of hell.

John Dvorak So anyway, I think that [indiscernible] (99:15) NBC has got problems, they need to merge with somebody, Comcast likes the idea of having content. I don’t see that as a big deal. I think if nothing else, it will probably change the politics of NBC a little bit so they won’t be so ultra-Liberal. But for the most part, I don’t think it’s going to make much of a difference and they were boneheads running NBC, they put this Leno every day of the week, I mean give me a break on this.

Leo Laporte By the way, that’s been a huge flop.

Heather Gold Yeah, like, that’s shocking.

Leo Laporte You thought – isn’t Leno beloved? Isn’t he like Johnny?

Heather Gold Not by – anymore by comics anyway. He [ph] then stop (99:53) with the funny a while ago, but he was like the late night – he played nice, you know.

Leo Laporte He was too nice. He was like me. He was like the Leo of late night.

John Dvorak No, no, it’s different.

Leo Laporte It’s different nice?

Heather Gold Different nice, you are actually relevant, Leo.

John C. Dvorak The Achilles Heel on the Leno Show is the fact that…

Leo Laporte It wasn’t pretty at all.

John C. Dvorak … he put himself onto that 10 o’clock spot across the board…

Heather Gold You got to be funny and…

John C. Dvorak …taking legitimate dramas off the air which pay the – its bread and butter for a lot of actors and actresses and the directors and so they boycotted him.

Leo Laporte Oh, that’s interesting.

Heather Gold Yeah but John they want to get to rid of actors and actresses if you haven’t been watching television, you know, [ph] free (indiscernible) for a while (100:30)

Leo Laporte Are we excited about AVATAR, speaking of no actors and actresses?

Heather Gold Well, I don’t know, if it’s good I am going to go of course, Niagara Falls, so I’m [ph] made by a man (100:38) from my hometown, John Cameron. I don’t know, I hope so.

Leo Laporte Is John Cameron from Niagara Falls?

Heather Gold He is, there is like three people [indiscernible] (100:44) from my hometown.

Leo Laporte Are you going to hate-tweet, live hate-tweet AVATAR?

Baratunde Thurston No, no, I don’t.

Heather Gold If turns into [ph] merriness (100:48) I’ll hate-tweet it. Otherwise I’ll happy-tweet it.

Baratunde Thurston I won’t make a habit of live hate-tweeting movies in their opening weekend because that is a good way to make enemies of the world, I didn’t care because Twilight can’t be spoiled any further than it already is.

Leo Laporte Right.

Baratunde Thurston On the Comcast deal I actually – I really don’t care, I think what I care more about is that Apple buying Lala, which was just confirmed today.

Heather Gold Yeah, when is [indiscernible] (101:07) get to that.

Baratunde Thurston So I just – I’m just throwing my last second thought on that…

Leo Laporte Apple buys – I haven’t used Lala, have any of you used Lala? it’s a music service.

Baratunde Thurston I am a huge champion of Lala. I love it.

Leo Laporte Oh, so you must be sad today?

Baratunde Thurston I am happy if they continue to exist, because maybe they get much needed money. I am sad because Apple is not the most open company.

Leo Laporte Describe Lala, what is Lala? Is it like Rap City? What is it, is it like the Last FM?

Baratunde Thurston [ph] I will let you know (101:32) a couple of interesting things, so the first thing it does is it mirrors your local iTunes collection in the cloud by two methods; one, they have licenses for millions of tracks so they just do a quick check to see if they already have it. Now you have web access to it, including all your play lists. If they don’t have it then they’ll upload it in the background from your computer so think of it as a portable, stream-able access to your personal iTunes library.

John C. Dvorak [ph] Well this is a throwback (101:55).

Baratunde Thurston The other thing they do is that they let you buy web-only access to songs for $0.10. So you don’t necessarily want to own the file but you want web access to the song, I’m always online at home – why do I need an MP3 file, I can stream it. So for $0.10 I can buy the rights to play that song an infinite amount of times.

Heather Gold Infinite times for $0.10?

Baratunde Thurston Infinite times for, well, until Apple bought them and I don’t know what happens to that. So…

Leo Laporte Do you think Apple would put them out of business or they want to, some...

Baratunde Thurston I think they want to…

Heather Gold Well, I mean is it like they actually executed [ph] noble need (102:25) for music properly?

Baratunde Thurston Yeah they do it great – I mean they made iTunes better. Which is what Apple has failed to do in so many ways, so I like that.

Heather Gold I think they’ll integrate it. I think Apple – I mean the other people I know who got bought by Apple are integrated.

Leo Laporte Apple was not notorious for acquisitions. When they buy something they use it.

Heather Gold They really use them.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Heather Gold Yeah, they really use that, which is good for us.

Baratunde Thurston Woohoo, Lala for everybody.

Heather Gold Right on.

Leo Laporte Ooh Lala.

Baratunde Thurston I would have done often, I will do that crowd source play lists, so I will just ask folks, like hey I am looking for a sad song, what do you think? As I’ll end up getting like over 120 submissions, cost $12 to build it, share it back out to the world, boom, instant play list shared. And you can embed those things. I don’t mean to do a commercial for Lala but its – they do like the service.

Leo Laporte Well I am glad we talked about it. I don’t know, I think we have to absorb the – I don’t even know is it confirmed that they did or is it still just a rumor that they did?

Heather Gold I heard it’s confirmed that they did it.

Baratunde Thurston New York Times confirmed it.

Leo Laporte Times has confirmed it, all right. So we will talk about it on [ph] MacBreak (103:19) weekly on Tuesday once we have absorbed it a little bit. Baratunde, thank you so much for being here, really appreciate it.

Baratunde Thurston Oh thank you very much, looking forward to the next time. Always a pleasure.

Leo Laporte We are going to send you a new mic kit, new studio, maybe you and Heather can share it sometimes, we will find a place for you both to be because you both are in Manhattan. But…

Baratunde Thurston Next time I am in Brooklyn, big difference.

Leo Laporte Oh, go to Brooklyn…

Heather Gold I’d be happier in Brooklyn.

Leo Laporte I think she would rather go to Brooklyn.

Heather Gold Yeah.

Leo Laporte Baratunde,, and of course you can see him on Future Of, Popular Science's Future Of on the Discovery channel, and what is it, Tuesdays, when do you have your comedy event?

Baratunde Thurston Usually Thursday night, that we are moving theaters this week. So I don’t – we are trying a new spot, I don’t know off the top of my head, but it will be on my Twitter stream or my website, so is good enough.

Leo Laporte or just @baratunde if you want to follow.

Heather Gold He tweets more than anyone on Twitter.

Baratunde Thurston I do.

Leo Laporte You can watch him hate – you can watch him hate on Twilight in real time. Thank you very much Baratunde, really good to have you here.

Baratunde Thurston Thank you very much Leo.

Leo Laporte Heather Gold, thanks, you are the winner of our brand-new hard drive, congratulations, it’s a solid state drive brought to you by Intel and it’s..

Heather Gold Oh, I feel like I am on Oprah for geeks.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Heather Gold Sweet.

Leo Laporte I was going to give it to John, but he didn’t bother showing up so I think you should get it.

Heather Gold I will drive home in the rain John, no problem.

Leo Laporte Heather, it was [ph] fun (104:35).

Heather Gold I am going to imagine when I am sitting in my living room car and it’s driving me – and I can just, you know, work on the hard drive.

Leo Laporte Heather is a comic working out of New York City, you could find her at and she is soon going to be on the TWiT network with her new show Tummelvision featuring Deb Schultz and Mr. Kevin Marks. That will be appearing in January.

Heather Gold Yep, starting January 13th.

Leo Laporte Very excited about that.

Heather Gold Right, Thursday nights 7 o’clock.

Leo Laporte It’s a great show.

Heather Gold It’s a fixed standard time. We have amazing people lined up to come guest on that show.

Leo Laporte It’s all about Tummeling, which is?

Heather Gold The act of creating engagements between people, very people focused. But we will be talking about building businesses and [ph] tact to (105:11) support things, to support engagement.

Leo Laporte So there won’t be any tech in it?

Heather Gold There will tech in it, there won’t be defragging in it.

Leo Laporte No defragging involved.

Heather Gold But if you would like to build, you know, apps or platform that maybe really works where people connect with each other…

Leo Laporte [ph] Something like buying (105:23).

Heather Gold …understanding how like – coming people before the system, serving people.

Leo Laporte It’s important stuff.

Heather Gold [ph] Rather us (105:30) than us serving the robots, yes.

Leo Laporte It’s the future.

Heather Gold The anti-matrix show.

Leo Laporte The future is here now. John C. Dvorak? Guys, if you don’t watch the video, you are missing something, I don’t know what?

John C. Dvorak What happened?

Leo Laporte Please watch, he’s turned bright red. In fact his whole environment has turned bright red. He’s in a dark room I guess?

John C. Dvorak But how come the microphone’s the right color?

Leo Laporte Oh John you are messing with us and we don’t like it one cotton-pickin’ bit.

John C. Dvorak It’s because of something in the camera, it’s not me at all.

Leo Laporte John C. Dvorak at of course you can catch him, No Agenda, Tech5, Cranky Geeks, and there is somebody who look a lot like him as if he were old and had a long beard on the Tech Grouch.

John C. Dvorak Tech Grouch, that guy.

Leo Laporte All of that on, I hate that guy.

John C. Dvorak Always a pleasure Leo.

Leo Laporte Thank you sir. Thank you all for being here. Don’t forget the TWiT survey at, it will help us understand our audience better so that our advertisers can extract more coin from you. And that’s very important to me because I want to be the richest man on the earth. Actually you know what I did this week?

Heather Gold You want to be the richest man on the Internet, seriously. You are going to smack down Gary V.

Leo Laporte No, you know what I did this week that’s actually counter to that? We have had – we have taken for a long time we asked for contributions to TWiT, in fact that’s how TWiT got started, for the first two years we had no advertisers.

Heather Gold Right. I am going to do the same thing in television. I think it’s a brilliant idea.

Leo Laporte We had no advertisers at all, and it really got the network started. But then we started getting advertising and because we have advertising now, people have asked me what is the role of a contribution in an ad-supported network? And I thought well you are right, it’s kind of muddied, I mean we certainly the money we very much appreciate, it’s very helpful to us. But it’s not clear where it’s going. So I decided this is what I am going to do, I am going to stop taking a salary from TWiT entirely, didn’t take much out to begin with, but I am not going to take any money out of TWiT, all that money will continue to paid the staff, improve the infrastructure, pay for bandwidth, all the other existing costs with doing this kind of thing, and my salary will be paid by you directly through your contributions. So from now on, when you do contribute to TWiT, and you can either give us one time a couple of bucks or there are two, five and $10 a month recurring subscription.

Heather Gold Do they get special prizes?

Leo Laporte They get nothing, but the goodness of knowing that they are keeping me off the streets.

Heather Gold Nice.

Leo Laporte So and if you hate TWiT please use this as an opportunity to send a signal by canceling your contribution or taking money out of the kitty. No we don’t have a way to do that yet. That will be kind of interesting.

Baratunde Thurston (107:56) Leo can I throw something in here really quick?

Leo Laporte Sure.

Baratunde Thurston (107:59) I have been a $2 a month subscriber for many years.

Leo Laporte Thank you.

Baratunde Thurston (108:04) so I hope you can buy some cup-a-noodles with that.

Leo Laporte Thank you.

Baratunde Thurston(108:06) And I want to just publicly thank the chat room, because they saved me on the sound, they were the ones who figured out what was going on, so IRC: Liz and [ph] a strong (108:13), I love you guys.

Leo Laporte I love the chat – we love the chat room.

Heather Gold The chat room is phenomenal. I really think you guys are great.

Leo Laporte They don’t get enough credit really, they are always there, there’s 823 people in there. If you are listening to TWiT or any of our shows as downloads, we do encourage you once in a while to stop by, you can watch it happen live before we edit out all the bad stuff and you can be part of the chat room and we watch the chat room the whole time, and interact with it. So that chat room is but you will find all the links at We really, this show is done every Sunday at 3 P.M. Pacific, 6 P.M. Eastern, which is 2300 UTC, but we have shows all week along and the chat room is always there. We appreciate it.

Thank you everybody. We appreciate your being here. Thank you for listening and thank you keeping me off the street. Another TWiT.

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