TWiT 233/Transcript

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Episode 233


This transcript is provided by our friends at Pods in Print

Leo Laporte Audio bandwidth for this WEEK in TECH is provided by AOL Music and, where you can get free MP3s, exclusive interviews and more. Video bandwidth for TWiT is provided by Cachefly at

This is TWiT, this WEEK in TECH, episode 233 for February 1, 2010: Apple II forever.

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It’s time for TWiT, the show that covers all the latest news, and today there’s nothing to talk about but the iPad. That’s why we brought in the top-of-the-line best guys in the business, because maybe they could find something else to talk about. Tom Merritt, he is an expert on the tech news because he does Buzz Out Loud, every day.

Tom Merritt Hello, Leo.

Leo Laporte Hey, Tom. It’s great to see you.

Tom Merritt It’s good to be here. Thanks for having me out here.

Leo Laporte I saw you at the launch.

Tom Merritt Oh, yeah. That was fun. Actually never got to touch the thing.

Leo Laporte You didn’t?

Tom Merritt No.

Leo Laporte Because you got too busy?

Tom Merritt But I got – no I wasn’t allowed in. They restricted the number of people from CNET that could go in.

Leo Laporte What? So Molly got to touch it but not you?

Tom Merritt No, Brian Tong, Donald Bell and Erica Ogg.

Leo Laporte Who the hell are they?

Tom Merritt Brian Tong at CNET TV is our Apple by host; Erica Ogg, news; and Donald Bell, reviews. They were like, we’ll let one from TV, one from reviews, one from news; that’s it.

Leo Laporte Okay. I’m not going to say anything.

John C. Dvorak Go ahead, say something.

Leo Laporte I would put my celebrities on this one, wouldn’t you? The big names. It’s like NBC got to go in and Ferg Ferglie got to see it instead of Brian Williams; it’s like what the hell?

Tom Merritt That’s probably what would happen. They’d leave Brian Williams on the anchor desk. That’s where Molly and I had a lot more fun sitting in the studio making comments.

Leo Laporte Anchoring. Yeah. I can imagine.

Patrick Norton How does it feel? Does it feel sensual?

Leo Laporte It does.

Patrick Norton Like touching the supple ankle of a A-list movie star.

Leo Laporte That ladies and gentleman, is the amazing voice of Mr. Patrick Norton, who is also there in his little Bear Hoodie.

Patrick Norton Yes, I’ve gotten a lot, that’s from, it’s a Bear Hoodie and yes, it is expensive because it is made in America by American laborers who charge more than slave labor overseas.

Leo Laporte Oh man, come on, you’re wearing some slave labor outfit right now, aren’t you?

Patrick Norton This is American apparel. I have no idea where this came from.

Leo Laporte Is the American apparel actually made in America?

Patrick Norton L.A. It’s a squirrelly company for other reasons but they do employ workers in L.A. They strongly prevent them organizing unions but hey, who doesn’t in America.

Leo Laporte Oh.

Tom Merritt And they pay them $0.50 an hour or a $1.

Leo Laporte There you go. So really which is worse, being a slave labor in America or in Thailand?

Tom Merritt Thailand.

Patrick Norton Well technically you can’t be a pure slave laborer in America depending on what you define slave labor as.

Leo Laporte I guess you’re right. John C. Dvorak probably would have something to say if he weren’t so appalled by this conversation. He is…

John C. Dvorak Oh it’s terrible.

Leo Laporte Shocked.

Patrick Norton Paying laborers for their work? Crush them, crush them now.

John C. Dvorak Crush all slaves. Is that right? Is that the right way to go?

Leo Laporte I think you’re right, Mr. Marx. Yes. So – we’re not – we’re actually not going to talk about the iPad at all today. It’s boring, it’s done, it’s over. I don’t care. All right, maybe a little later on.

John C. Dvorak Let the market play it out; see what happens.

Leo Laporte Well you know, that was an interesting thing that David Pogue told me. He said – because what surprised me is how much hatred there was spewed, vitriol, like Apple had stepped on somebody’s cat. I mean people were pissed off.

Tom Merritt Is that…

John C. Dvorak I think this is the point of my MarketWatch column that ran on Friday for all of you out there who want to read something decent.

Leo Laporte What was the point?

John C. Dvorak That was the – really the point.

Leo Laporte But why do you think people were peeved?

John C. Dvorak I think there was everybody had their pet little thing they wanted on the machine and it didn’t deliver. Everybody, I talked to there’s all – everybody had their own pet little peeve.

Leo Laporte So there was no way Apple could respond.

John C. Dvorak This is a problem. This reminds me of the time – if anybody wants to remember way back, but this happens every so often. Texas Instruments pulled something like this. When they came out with the TI-99/4, you remember that, Leo?

Leo Laporte Love that sucker.

Tom Merritt Just like a real computer.

John C. Dvorak Missing the Control key or something. I forgot what it was; there was some keys that was missing. They just weren’t on the keyboard and they were important keys. And it was like, hey, had they rolled it out – showed people the thing in advance like months in advance and not made it such a big secret, they would have gotten enough feedback right there to fix all these complaints. If Apple had rolled this thing out to everybody pretty much like kind of a small beta. So it got out, people saw pictures of it, it wasn’t really finalized, and it wasn’t really fully announced and people could come back and say hey, ‘I’m not going to buy this stuff, it doesn’t have a camera’ or ‘I need a stylus, I can’t draw on this thing’ or a million of these other complaints; they would have fixed it; they would have a perfect pad, but no. They had to keep a big secret.

Leo Laporte They wouldn’t have a perfect pad. They would have had a tablet PC like there’s 300 other ones.

Tom Merritt The TI-99/4 was missing a backspace key. It’s pretty critical.

Leo Laporte Now that’s pretty significant.

Patrick Norton I don’t think that the iPad is missing anything quite as critical as that.

Leo Laporte I would say…

John C. Dvorak So you looked it up, it was a backspace key, it was stupid.

Leo Laporte The camera is not – you know what, I would tell you. Here’s what I think is missing, I think stylus, no, of course not.

John C. Dvorak See, you have your one thing too.

Leo Laporte Yeah, the stylus is crazy. I don’t think multi – lack of multi-tasking is a huge minus. Frankly I’ve got multi-tasking on the Nexus One and it crashes it more often.

John C. Dvorak That was Hitler’s complaint.

Leo Laporte Yes. Crashed too often!

Tom Merritt Godwin’s Law.

Leo Laporte And the camera – okay, it would be nice to have a camera, but I don’t think this is so much a content creation device, it’s a content consumption device. Which means that – my biggest question is why they didn’t do a 16:9 720p device which, because movies look like crap on this because they’re so letter boxed. To me that’s the biggest minus. If it’s – see, my position is it’s not to replace a netbook, it’s to replace a Kindle. It’s a content consumption device.

Tom Merritt A Kindle or I’m trying to use my iPhone on the couch at home and the screen is too small and I’m getting frustrated. But I don’t want to have to go pull my laptop out. This is that device.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Tom Merritt Pretty small niche.

John C. Dvorak Yeah. It’s kind of an iPhone for senior citizens.

Leo Laporte I think it’s a good niche. I think it’s a niche…

Tom Merritt It may not be a bad niche.

Leo Laporte I’ll be watching – I’ll be reading The New York Times on it, magazines. I think it’s going to be a great book reader. Some people say the LCD – I don’t know, I think it looked like a nice screen that was…

Tom Merritt I understand why they didn’t put multi-tasking because they don’t want it in the iPhone; this is the iPhone OS. They may put multi-tasking in iPhone 4 when they finally figure it out, if they figure out how [indiscernible] (07:31) may not.

Leo Laporte Multi-tasking doesn’t belong in a phone. I know a lot of phones have it, but I think it causes problems almost always.

Tom Merritt But I get why it’s not in there yet. And they could roll it in later and in fact all the Apple guys apparently were dropping hints like crazy, like “there’re be more features in this before it actually launches”.

Leo Laporte Oh that’s interesting.

Tom Merritt It sounds like maybe there will even be a kind of an OS [indiscernible] (07:50).

Leo Laporte They could put a backspace in there.

Tom Merritt I don’t know if it’ll be 4 but if it will be 3.5 or something before then. But I don’t understand why they didn’t put a camera in. Was it just keeping the cost down?

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Tom Merritt Is that all there is to it?

Leo Laporte I would say. I think hitting that 499 price point was tough for them. And I think that they’re right to hit that price point.

Patrick Norton Well some of the people speccing parts are saying there’s only 250, $275 in parts in it. So that still leaves Apple a fairly healthy amount of profit in there.

Leo Laporte That’s true if those numbers are accurate.

Patrick Norton And it’s an unsubsidized device so there should be – from what everybody’s saying, there should be money to be made on this. I think – I got to go back a step, Leo, and say multi-tasking does belong on phones because it belongs on personal computers. These aren’t phones anymore. This is far beyond the phone and case in point, this is not a phone.

Leo Laporte I don’t think it’s a personal computer either though.

Patrick Norton Well, it may not be a personal computer either but the idea that, if I have something going it’s annoying to have to restart everything from scratch every time you launch an application. You know what it means; it’s got a good old-fashioned DOS Terminate and Stay Resident program kind of feel to it which is really annoying on the iPhone.

Leo Laporte We should point out that there is multi-tasking on the iPhone. It’s just that only Apple gets to do it.

Patrick Norton Yeah. And they only get to do it with the phone and to a lesser degree the GPS and to a greater degree the…

Leo Laporte The iPod does it. You can listen to music and play a game. I do it all the time.

Patrick Norton Yeah. No – and it’s great. But it’s only kind of like the lockdown stuff that Apple allows you to.

Leo Laporte Well, I think that their point in that case would be we don’t – it’s nervous for us to make a phone that can be locked up. I locked up my Nexus One for 45 minutes yesterday which meant I couldn’t make a call because I installed a podcatching client that decided it wanted to download all of this stuff at the same time and I couldn’t use the phone. So I can understand why you would make that argument on a phone. I agree with you Patrick, the tablet is less of an argument.

Patrick Norton I’ve had my iPhone lock up without doing anything other than using the regular features that were put in there by Apple.

Leo Laporte It’s gotten more reliable though, right? It doesn’t lock up really.

Patrick Norton Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

Leo Laporte So I think that they are looking at reliability. I wouldn’t be surprised to see multi-tasking; but I don’t think multi-tasking – lack of multi-tasking is a killer because I think really this is like, here’s my use case. I sit – I’m reading in bed. Maybe I want to check my email real quickly or look at Twitter. Get up, I want to read The New York Times at the breakfast table, maybe look at The New Yorker magazine or something. Take it to work, I have the chat room running on in the background.

You can watch movies and TV on it, if you have a Slingbox it will put TV anywhere in the house, you put the Sling application on it. I think that’s a pretty compelling content consumption device. That’s my point.

Patrick Norton But people, they’re on Facebook, they’re on Flickr, they’re moving photos, they’re…I think basic web usage to this point for a lot of people involves content creation. I mean if it didn’t, they wouldn’t have – if they didn’t expect it to be used for a significant amount of email or Facebook or whatever, they wouldn’t have basically launched it with their own keyboard adapter in place.

Leo Laporte That was what puzzled me. I thought that was a mistake. I thought launching iWork and the keyboard kind of implied something that it’s not – implied it’s more of a computer. I thought that was kind of a mistake to be honest.

Patrick Norton Having used that keyboard on the screen, I mean, it’s not bad for an onscreen keyboard.

Leo Laporte You’re not going to do much typing.

Patrick Norton I can type 80 words a minute on a real keyboard. I can type about 15 on that screen. So by having a keyboard even if it is optional; it would be nice if you could just use a Bluetooth keyboard or something with it. But by having the keyboard there, people who type and do entries and there’s a whole lot of people out there, moms and dads and kids…

Leo Laporte You should get a netbook then. If you want a camera, multi-tasking, a keyboard, isn’t that a netbook? And it’s cheaper.

Patrick Norton Didn’t Steve tell us that netbooks are pieces of stuff that…

Leo Laporte But that could be Steve’s opinion but I don’t think that’s really where this market lies. It’s not – buy a netbook if you want all that stuff.

Tom Merritt That’s the difference here is that it seems like Apple is making an appliance.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Tom Merritt They are making…

Leo Laporte My point exactly.

Tom Merritt They are making a blender. This is…

Patrick Norton An internet appliance that can’t…

Tom Merritt This is not for geeky people. This is for folks who’d just pick it up in the store and go; oh, it does that; oh, it’s so fast, oh.

Leo Laporte Exactly.

Tom Merritt And then want to take it home.

Patrick Norton And they spend a lot of time on MySpace and they spend a lot of time on Facebook and a lot of time on other…

Leo Laporte You can use this with Facebook I think, just fine.

Patrick Norton Sure.

Leo Laporte This keyboard is good enough to do Facebook.

Patrick Norton Three or four characters at a time.

Leo Laporte You know what Facebook is going to have to do though is they are going to have to replace FarmVille and all those Flash games with something else.

Tom Merritt Calacanis has the second version, that would [indiscernible] (12:28).

Patrick Norton FarmVille.

Leo Laporte It would be a good FarmVille device. I don’t understand why – I understand why Apple is – basically Apple has said, we are going to take a little hit because we want to kill Flash.

Tom Merritt And that’s interesting because a lot of people that I talked to say they won’t get it because it doesn’t play Hulu and the reason it doesn’t do Hulu is it doesn’t do Flash.

Leo Laporte And so what’s the answer. Apple says we’re going to make it so that none of our portable devices support Flash. We make – there’s 75 million iPhones out there, what do you think Hulu is going to do? Hulu’s going to figure out a way to do it in H.264.

Patrick Norton Hulu does crazy stuff though, like we don’t want it in Boxee and we don’t want people to watch anything older than 5 episodes. So I don’t know that all of that works.

Leo Laporte If Hulu wants people – then I think I’m certainly, as a content creator, making sure that we have a version that works on the iPad.

Patrick Norton Sure.

Leo Laporte Wouldn’t that be the smart thing to do?

Patrick Norton Yes, because you’re smart.

Leo Laporte Well, that’s Hulu then. You can’t…

Tom Merritt Hulu does stuff that’s like, counter to their own success.

Patrick Norton Yeah, but weren’t you just savaging the networks for not being able to make an intelligent decision about smart consumers to save their lives at a certain trade show a few weeks ago, Leo?

Leo Laporte Well, they are. They are morons. And so Hulu could conceivably do something stupid but I think Apple’s point of view is – let me read to you. Steve Jobs had a town meeting with Apple employees late last week; this is from, following the launch. Actually it’s from Wired. Wired says, two of the things that Jobs talked about, Jobs says Adobe is lazy and blames Adobe for a buggy implementation of Flash on the Mac as one of the reasons they won’t support it, “Apple does not support Flash because it is so buggy. Whenever a Mac crashes, more often than not, it’s because of Flash”. No Steve, that’s not true.

Tom Merritt I don’t think that’s true.

Leo Laporte “No one will be using Flash”, he says, “The world is moving to HTML 5”. And I do agree with him on that. And I think this is clear, that’s what Apple’s trying to do is get – they don’t want one company, Adobe, to have so much so much control, so they want to go to an open standard.

Tom Merritt Unless it’s them.

Leo Laporte Yeah, unless it’s them.

Patrick Norton Part of what is so sad though is, especially so many large corporations, because of the level of perceived control it gives them over the content on the website; run everything in Flash and it’s desperately unfortunate because it makes the pages load slower especially the initial…

Leo Laporte Accessibility goes to crap.

Patrick Norton Accessibility goes to crap depending on how good their programming is or their designers are, the accessibility across different screen sizes waxes and wanes. It’s unfortunate and it’s also an absolutely abysmal resource hog, especially if you tend to do silly little things…

Leo Laporte 100% CPU.

Patrick Norton Like have 25 windows open.

Leo Laporte You know YouTube has an HTML 5 beta going on right now. You can join it by going to and all the videos will now be H.264 without the flash wrapper; see – just do it and see what the CPU difference is. It’s like night and day.

Now, I know everybody who watches our live stream is watching Flash because our providers do it in Flash but if you watch on the iPhone or the Android platform USTREAM stuff is not Flash, it’s H.264, that’s why it works on the iPhone. We’ll be sure to include that kind of a stream into an iPad application and I would imagine that everybody else except maybe somebody stupid enough to say, “we’ll”, I mean, why would Hulu care about Flash? They are not in the Flash business

Tom Merritt But they don’t care about accessibility as much as they care about making a splash and so as long as people can watch it on their computer limited they are fine with that. They actually don’t want it on the mobile platform. They want it to use it as a barker to get people to watch the broadcast. So that’s why…

Leo Laporte That’s interesting.

Tom Merritt So that’s why they are not wanting it on Boxee, that’s why they don’t really care about – that’s why they haven’t come out with a mobile app that’s makes Hulu easily accessible on a bunch of different mobile platforms, so they are fine with Flash because it locks it down for them.

Leo Laporte Don’t they understand that real competition is not mobile platforms, the real competition is BitTorrent; it’s The Pirate Bay.

Tom Merritt Yes, they should. And they should understand – and actually Hulu themselves understands this and once the networks understand…

Leo Laporte Right, it’s just Fox and NBC that doesn’t.

Tom Merritt Yes, but they’re fighting an internal battle about it.

Leo Laporte John, you’ve been so quiet. What do you think?

John C. Dvorak No, I’m just listening to you guys. You guys are all full of crap.

Leo Laporte Oh, good, that’s what I thought.

John C. Dvorak One thing, essentially, all I’m hearing are excuses for the iPad as opposed to…

Leo Laporte No, I gave you a use case, not an excuse for how…

John C. Dvorak Well, I mean, yes, a use case but it’s like that’s you. I mean you are like one of the most unusual people on the panel, considering all the fact that you are a tech maven junkie as it were. You’re doing, probably the number one podcaster in the country, and you have a lot – and you are creating content all the time and you probably would be reading The New York Times at breakfast rather than talking to your wife and kids.

Leo Laporte No, I don’t want to talk to them. They got nothing to say.

John C. Dvorak And reading the thing in bed you know rather than sleeping; you know, I just don’t see a lot of people doing any of that stuff, I mean, I…

Leo Laporte Well, I agree, you might be right, I mean, we’ll find out in two months if there is a market…

John C. Dvorak No, I know, I could be dead wrong but at first, when I first discussed this thing on the Cranky Geeks show with all the other guys who had seen it, it was like well, you know, I think it’s probably going to be successful because Apple’s really good at marketing stuff, but then after I started hearing the grousing, which is very unlike Apple mavens complaining bitterly about one thing or another or mostly little minor things and then realizing that this is essentially not a computer like, I agree with you on that, it doesn’t run the Mac OS, it wouldn’t run Microsoft Word, it’s essentially a giant iPod Touch…

Leo Laporte Yes. It’s all of these.

John C. Dvorak For senior citizens whose icons need to be bigger, and…

Leo Laporte I think Apple is the Obama of the tech world.

John C. Dvorak And I think that it’s going to be interesting – I’m now skeptical whether this thing can be as successful as they were hoping. By the way no one’s ever done well with this model anyway, and they – I don’t think they did anything outrageously different in terms of the, you know, yes, maybe it reads books little better but, nobody has made a pad work, I mean Microsoft threw a bunch of money at it, just happened in the 80s and the 90s…

Leo Laporte Yeah, but none of them were nearly as usable. I mean the user interface on this is really, is very…

John C. Dvorak The closest I – the only thing I see people really jacked up about is the Kindle.

Leo Laporte Yes, that’s what to me this is – the competition for the Kindle.

John C. Dvorak I don’t know. I don’t like the white light shining in my face when I’m reading.

Leo Laporte See, that’s the problem I have with the Kindle is you have to have a light on.

John C. Dvorak No, but it’s like paper, you have to have a light on paper.

Patrick Norton Yes, the Kindle is less fatiguing, read – I mean I have been reading books on LCD screens literally for like 15 years now, I think the first one I read was a [ph] Neil Gibson (18:56)…

Leo Laporte One of them…

Patrick Norton A Gibson sci-fi book back in 92, it came on a three and half inch floppy, I read it in a my Core 2 Duo, but it’s fatiguing on the eyes to read on an LCD screen, I mean we do it all day at work but it’s tends to be – people complain about it more…

Leo Laporte Yes, somebody said that – they said that, yes, we read them all day at work but the last thing we want to do is come home and read more on the LCD.

Tom Merritt When we read at work we read in a different way. We don’t read…

Leo Laporte We are skimming around.

Tom Merritt A book for a couple of hours at a time; we look at it, we look away, we read…

Leo Laporte I don’t think we’ll know till I get it home but I plan to replace the Kindle with it and then see, I’ll let you know but I’m – you know you are right, if it’s fatiguing I won’t be happy about that.

Patrick Norton I mean Leo, don’t take this the wrong way, but you are not going to replace the Kindle with it, you are going to put the Kindle in a drawer.

Leo Laporte Well…

Tom Merritt It’s not like you are going to be selling it on Craigslist.

Leo Laporte No, no, no, the Kindle…

Patrick Norton Well, in two months if it’s a fail you’ll be like buying a new Kindle…

Leo Laporte I don’t – yes, I don’t – I think I have been ready for something to replace the Kindle. The Kindle is not a long term satisfying proposition to me.

Patrick Norton Why?

Tom Merritt I keep the Kindle right next to my bedside and I read paper on it in the morning; I read books on it in the evening…

Leo Laporte How is it for reading the paper?

Tom Merritt I’ll carry it around the house. It’s good if all you want is to read the couple of top stories every day.

Leo Laporte Linearly. Yes, it’s not good for skimming or jumping.

Tom Merritt It’s not good for flipping through the papers. It’s not the same experience.

Leo Laporte That’s why I’m looking for the iPad. I like that.

Tom Merritt And I think the iPad is good for that, and I think it’s going to be a middling success. I think it’s going to be a little more popular than the Apple TV but it’s not going to be nearly as popular as the iPods.

Leo Laporte So, here is why – here is why say that Apple pulled an Obama. Obama’s pissed off people on the left because he is not progressive enough. The right hated him because he is too liberal. So everybody hates him. And Apple’s done this basically. What they’ve done is it’s not geeky enough for the Apple fanboy geeks, right, so it’s pissed them off and then the Apple haters already hate it anyway and they are just as glad to jump on this bandwagon, so you’ve got about 80% of the public going, “this thing sucks!”

Patrick Norton That’s what will make…

Tom Merritt It’s a compromised solution.

John C. Dvorak Yes, but let’s look at it from another perspective. For one thing the Apple fanboys do not and I don’t know when this ever happened the way you are describing it but I’ve never noticed that they are discerning as a general public.

Leo Laporte No, I think you are right.

John C. Dvorak They just jump on anything that you know Steve Jobs says it, I don’t know if they would – what they were eating or drinking or smoking but they, whatever they – it’s fine, and they usually rave about stuff and they jump all over people who are critical; it’s just not happening with this thing.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Patrick Norton Actually I think it has been happening, somewhere or maybe we’ve just been reading different stories but I’ve a lot of, “Steve’s giving people what they need not what they want”.

Leo Laporte Ooh! I love that.

Patrick Norton Which is like one of my favorite marketing quotes.

Leo Laporte You know it’s funny because I said the opposite which is this is not a device you need but it might be a device you want.

Tom Merritt Yes. And that’s…

John C. Dvorak And by the way Steve generally speaking historically he is the one who coined that you should be selling the sizzle not the steak back in the 70s.

Leo Laporte Really?

John C. Dvorak He is always the guy who is giving people what they want not what they need.

Tom Merritt I think that the iPad is more sizzle than steak and I think there might be an analog to it in the Nintendo Wii, where people…

Leo Laporte It’s a name just like the iPad…

Tom Merritt Said it’s a horrible name, it doesn’t do anything…

Leo Laporte Right. It’s crappy compared to the competition.

Tom Merritt It’s not high def, I mean, it’s yes, sure it’s cheaper but why would anyone buy a Wii over a PS3 or an Xbox 360 and look who dominated the console market over the past three or four years?

Leo Laporte Yes, maybe that’s a very apt technology.

John C. Dvorak No. I’m going to disagree with this too, I guess I’m going to be disagreeable today.

Leo Laporte Go ahead.

John C. Dvorak The Wii had like some phenomenal new input devices, I mean the gyroscope and all the things you could do with that controller were astonishing, people were just seeing something that was totally new and they did – so they started being hypercritical and it still has some of the best games you can play and some of the cutest things you can do and it’s always been oriented towards younger people so kids love it but older people can play it without feeling too humiliated. It’s a – I don’t think that the comparison is the same at all; this thing is not designed for young people; it’s got nothing really special and unusual in it that the iPod Touch doesn’t have so I’m not seeing this comparison as being valid.

Leo Laporte Wait a minute though, Nickname is saying in our chatroom and I think this is an apt question: Which do you think a child would gravitate towards, which would they prefer, a touchscreen device or a notebook or a desktop?

Patrick Norton Touchscreen device. I’ll tell you what, John let’s do a bet.

John C. Dvorak Wait, wait, wait, stop, wait, that’s, I want to stop this question because it’s facetious. The fact of the matter is as I already said and they probably would gravitate; you said the same thing about a kid and an iPod Touch. What I was saying about the Wii is that was introducing some new paradigms; there’s no new paradigm here, it’s just a big iPod Touch, so this is not a valid thing to throw at me.

Leo Laporte Well, but what if you say the iPod Touch and the iPhone were the promise and that the iPad delivers on the promise simply by virtue of having a bigger screen and a faster processor, it just…

John C. Dvorak That will be a laughable proposition.

Patrick Norton I think there is a lot of people that are using iPhone applications that might actually welcome the larger screen; I mean there’s been situations where I’ve said, if I could just connect a stupid keyboard to my iPhone there’s a lot more I could do with it, you know, is it worth $500 or $630 to have that larger screen, you know I’m a little less stoked about it than I was on the day it released, you know, but the – It’s a nice piece of hardware, the screen looks good, everybody is wanting about 10X7 but…

Leo Laporte It’s very elegant.

Patrick Norton And it’s – they didn’t need to do a paradigm changing interface because they already did that with the iPhone.

Leo Laporte Right.

John C. Dvorak I didn’t say that they had to do that. I’m just saying for the sake of this argument that you’ve artificially created they would have to if you are going to compare it to the Wii.

Tom Merritt I think you are right John, I think that’s where the analogy falls down, I mean there are a lot of similarities though, between, in the appeal to different age groups that don’t normally buy this sort of thing and the fact that it’s got a stupid name and all of that sort of stuff but I think you are right. I think you hit on the key difference which is, what is the wow factor? There was a wow factor with Wii in the Wii mode. And I’m not sure I see one with the iPad where people look at it and go wow, wow! I’ve never seen anything do that before.

Leo Laporte I like what you said Patrick. This is – the innovation already happened on the iPod Touch and the iPhone and because they are such small screens you really don’t see it, I think that, John, there is innovation here just that we – it’s not new.

John C. Dvorak It’s just bigger.

Leo Laporte Well, bigger makes a difference.

John C. Dvorak If just going bigger is innovation I think that you are mis-defining words.

Patrick Norton I don’t know if it’s innovation. I think it’s taking – the innovation was absolutely done on the iPhone and to a much lesser degree the iPod Touch; they’ve got a large application base in place, they’ve got a lot of people looking to make money on the application base, they’ve a huge population, people understand and trust the interface and they basically – all the development for an entirely new platform has already been done on a frickin cell phone.

Leo Laporte Well, look, I mean how many times do you launch a new computer with 140,000 apps ready to go?

John C. Dvorak I doubt that was one of the…

Tom Merritt [Indiscernible] (25:53) size, millions, unlimited apps.

John C. Dvorak That was unusual. That’s the most unusual thing about this launch. That’s never happened before.

Leo Laporte No, that’s huge.

Tom Merritt Every computer you buy has more apps than the iPad or the iPhone.

John C. Dvorak Again if wanted to be argumentative which apparently I do let me say that you are talking about 140,000 phone applications for a little hand held device that now all you are doing is just blowing them up as if that’s appropriate.

Leo Laporte No, and you are right, I played a game Assassins Creed, it was designed for the iPhone screen and when you blow it up they say 2X on the button but really it’s 2X each dimension is 4 times bigger and jaggy as hell.

John C. Dvorak Yes.

Leo Laporte So, application developers are going to have to rewrite; I don’t know how hard it is to rewrite but to really take advantage of that real estate they are going to have to rewrite; on the other hand I think of a few applications that I love on the iPhone that would be great on the iPad, I’m thinking of MySonos, remote control for the Sonos songplayer would be great; I’m thinking Mint would be fantastic, especially if you wrote it to have more information. You know there is a lot of applications that would be very sweet on that.

Imagine what you would do with Tweet Deck, Tweet Deck is really…

Patrick Norton No, absolutely.

Leo Laporte Yes, it’s too big for the iPhone. You know, you don’t get those columns but just a little more real estate; wouldn’t that look nice on that screen?

Tom Merritt Yes.

Leo Laporte So I think that there is and I tell you I’m – yeah – Bejeweled? Peggle?

Tom Merritt Well, because those things don’t carry – If it gets jaggy it doesn’t matter.

Leo Laporte Yes, Bejeweled would be beautiful on there. It’d be a great Bejeweled device. Crossword puzzles, wouldn’t it be great? It’s made for Sudoku.

Patrick Norton Yes. And I don’t think it’s going to be that hard – and I would love to hear e-mail from people who are developing iPhone applications but I don’t see; in some cases they may have to do new TextStream apps but I don’t see a lot of applications having difficulty scaling to a larger screen. Yes, are they going to have to do a point release to do it? I don’t doubt it.

Leo Laporte Yes, but it can’t be that hard.

John C. Dvorak Well, I think that people in the chatroom are moaning that we are belaboring the point.

Leo Laporte No, this is a huge – they hate everything. We talked about Twitter, and they hated it. But there is no…

John C. Dvorak Twitter, I’m supposed to just tell you to stop now.

Leo Laporte There is no evidence that these are the big – this is the biggest story of the month maybe the year, maybe the year, come on…

John C. Dvorak Yes, I know, but I think the sub-topic is what they are complaining…

Leo Laporte Oh, all right, we’ll move on to the…

Tom Merritt I do want to play SimCity on the iPad though.

Leo Laporte There you go.

Tom Merritt Because it gets really cramped on…

Leo Laporte And you already own it…

Tom Merritt On the phone.

Leo Laporte And you already own it, and when you plug in your iPad for the first time all of those apps are going to transfer over…

Tom Merritt Yes.

Leo Laporte I think it’s going to – look I don’t have – I don’t care if it doesn’t sell, I’m not trying to argue you and convince you that this is a great thing, I just – I see a use for it and I think that there is a market for it, I don’t know how big it is, I love the Apple TV and that’s been a bomb.

Tom Merritt Oh, yes, I am a big fan of the Apple TV but I know it’s not successful.

Leo Laporte Oh, it’s a huge flop.

Tom Merritt It’s a horrible failure.

Leo Laporte Now according to TechCrunch, the Kindle sold 3 million units, I don’t know how accurate this is, millions…

John C. Dvorak This is undocumented.

Patrick Norton I think it was Amazon that was saying they’ve sold 3 million units.

Leo Laporte No Amazon said millions…

Tom Merritt Amazon said stuff that led people to read the tea leaves to decipher…

Leo Laporte And then Mike Arrington said, “According to my sources which have been accurate in the past”, 3 million, well 3 million in two years is not anything to write home about. And this is an interesting point because Amazon is acting like they are in the Kindle business not in the book business; Amazon has reacted very badly in my opinion to the iPad, and has really started a turf war and this is all about…

John C. Dvorak How is this?

Leo Laporte Well, McMillan, you heard this whole McMillan story, right?

John C. Dvorak No, I’m not following this…

Leo Laporte Okay, so I’ll tell you about it in just a second. We are going to take a break and come back and talk about it; but I think this is…

John C. Dvorak You are a teaser Leo.

Leo Laporte You know there is a problem as I’ve mentioned before with teasing in a podcast, it just makes people skip the ad.

John C. Dvorak But still you are a natural, you can’t get away…

Leo Laporte I can’t help it.

John C. Dvorak From being the pro that you are.

Leo Laporte It’s built into my radio DNA.

Tom Merritt Nothing makes it tease better than pointing it out.

Leo Laporte By the way…

John C. Dvorak That makes a tease better than before…

Leo Laporte You’ve been teased. Now please, don’t fast forward the ad, what I was talking about is that not interesting, this is much more interesting, we’ve got a brand new product to tell you about, from the folks at Carbonite, you know I talk about Carbonite Online Backup and one of the things I hear all the time from people is that’s great but it’s for one computer. I would love to see something like this for the enterprise. We – I’m very pleased, this is the first time anybody has ever told you about a brand new product from Carbonite. I have been talking with David Friend and the Carbonite team about this for a year. I am really excited to introduce Carbonite Pro for small businesses. You could take a look at it by going to

Now you are familiar with Carbonite Online Backup. It’s the automatic PC or Mac backup designed for individuals. It will allow you to backup everything on your computer, all the personal files and everything automatically over the Internet, uses AES 256-bit encryption. You set the key, so it’s private, 128-bit SSL to upload it, so it’s absolutely secure. Really is a great service for individuals. We have been recommending it for a long time. This is a new package for small businesses, Carbonite Pro.

You don’t need any extra hardware. You already have an existing backup solution, I presume, in your business. This works hand in hand with it to give you offsite backup. You get a centralized admin dashboard with backup status, as many computers as you want. Each employee can access their own backup files if you let them of course. You can be notified. Your office could be up and running in no time because each employee can go, okay I am getting my files back. It is very affordable, starts as low as $10 a month for your entire office.

I am going to tell you how you could do it free for 30 days in a second, but let me give you an idea of how the pricing will work. If you have, if as an example, let’s say 5 gigabytes of backup spread over eight computers, $25 a month; 18 computers, 5 gigabytes, $50 a month. We’re talking 10 or $50 a month for peace of mind for you and your employees. That’s less than if you got Carbonite for each individual machine and the additional admin features really make it a great solution.

Now this is a perfect solution if you have been avoiding kind of this whole problem of offsite backup. You didn’t want to deal it in your business. If you don’t have an IT department, then you don’t want to have to become an expert in this stuff, a great solution. Now I want you try it for free for 30 days. There is no coupon code needed for this because we are only people talking about it. So they know if you go to the website, it’s because you heard it on TWiT.

Go to I really want you to try the 30-day trial and give them feedback. This is really a preview for the TWiT audience and a chance for you to really take a look at what this new product from Carbonite is. I am just thrilled, I immediately installed it for our office because we have – we actually have lost, we bought a $20,000 SAN, storage area network. I mean really, this is – I thought that was very expensive and it died and lost all the data.

Tom Merritt That’s expensive.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Well, no and then I was told, oh no you want it to be absolutely reliable so you don’t lose data? That's the $100,000 version. Oh, how could I have been so cheap? So I’m looking for a way to back that up and to back everything else up on our network and this is the solution. Thank goodness, I wish I had it two weeks ago, Really thrilled to be able to bring it to you for the first time anywhere on TWiT. So here’s the story, John. I think you would be very interested in this. Macmillan, which is a big publisher. I can’t remember all their imprints. Henry Holt. Is Random House Macmillan?

John C. Dvorak Everybody is owned by Pearson.

Leo Laporte Except Macmillan.

John C. Dvorak No, I think Macmillan is too.

Leo Laporte So it’s a division of Pearson.

Tom Merritt Well, Simon & Schuster is CBS. That's the only one I know.

Leo Laporte It’s so confusing. There’s only three big publishers, right.

John C. Dvorak They are all gone.

Leo Laporte So here’s the deal. Macmillan says to Amazon, we don’t like it that you set the price on our books on the Kindle. We don’t like 9.99. We want to charge 15.99 and oh by the way, Apple’s letting us charge whatever we want in the iBookstore. So on Friday, Amazon’s response was to pull all Macmillan books from the Amazon website including print books and the only way you can get a Macmillan book on the Amazon site is to go to a third party seller. You could not get it from Amazon.

Tom Merritt Right.

John C. Dvorak Well, there you have it.

Leo Laporte Macmillan wants to go as high as $15. This is the same battle that Apple had on the iTunes store with the music industry. Remember Apple wanted to keep it at $0.99, the music industry said no, we want three-tier pricing, $1.29, 99 and 79 and now the way Apple got it worked out was they went – they said okay we will do it but no DRM and so when the iTunes Plus started without DRM at the new tiered pricing, everybody was happy. We got rid of DRM and the record industry got their buck; because basically everything is $1.29 now. So that's really what…

John C. Dvorak Well, the story that everyone in the chat room says, Leo, Leo, Leo Amazon caved, they caved, they caved.

Leo Laporte According to TechCrunch, this is the latest and again consider the source. Leena Rao writing on TechCrunch just minutes ago, Amazon just posted an announcement saying it gives up, it gives in, you win, dear customers, Amazon says.

John C Dvorak Oh that, this is it yeah, this is Amazon’s old trick.

Leo Laporte Yeah, yeah they did this before, didn’t they? Macmillan has a monopoly over their own titles. Yeah, they publish them for crying out loud! Macmillan, one of the big six publishers has clearly communicated to us that regardless of our viewpoint, they are committed to switching to an agency model and charging, I don’t know what that means, 12.99 to 14.99 for eBook versions of best sellers and most hardcover releases.

Tom Merritt That means Amazon doesn’t get to be the wholesaler and the retailer at the same time.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Tom Merritt That's what that agency model…

Leo Laporte You are not a bookstore. You are a bookstore in other words because that's what happens in the bookstore, right is that Macmillan says, this is the price.

Tom Merritt This is the price, that's why it’s printed on the book.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Tom Merritt Yeah.

Leo Laporte And the bookstore does, if the bookstore discounts, it comes out of their pocket, not out of Macmillan’s pocket.

Patrick Norton Who pays, who pays the MSRP on a book? I mean Borders does 30% off of – even the small bookstores…

Leo Laporte But the way it works is as I remember and John you probably know better than anybody but as I remember is that the book publisher sets a retail price and collects half of that price as its money. Whatever the retailer wants to charge above that half is the retailer’s profit which could be a full 50% or if the retailer wants to discount and in fact Amazon discounts some titles and makes less money but I think what’s happening here is when Amazon charges 9.99 in the Kindle, it’s not – its cut Macmillan’s cut as well, right?

Tom Merritt Yeah, yeah. I didn’t think that was the case but that's what this implies.

Leo Laporte Amazon says we have expressed our strong disagreement and the seriousness of our disagreement by temporarily ceasing the sale of all Macmillan titles. Can you say antitrust action? I mean this sounds like – this sounds illegal to me.

Patrick Norton Where’s the trust?

John C. Dvorak It’s going to be questionable whether you – well there is – the antitrust issue is the fact that they are vertically integrated and they have a device that nobody else has.

Leo Laporte They are not –yeah they are not really a bookstore.

John C. Dvorak But with the Apple machine coming out and…

Leo Laporte Maybe there is competition, yeah.

John C. Dvorak I don’t know if you could make the argument as antitrust.

Leo Laporte Well, Amazon…

John C. Dvorak This just means spirited.

Leo Laporte Didn’t Amazon just change its pricing so that anybody who agrees not to put DRM on a book gets to keep 70% or whatever? They did – they flip-flopped today. It used to be 30-70, now it’s 70-30.

Tom Merritt Right. You just have to enable text-to-speech and not have DRM and then you get the same model. You can set whatever price you want; you keep 70% of it.

Leo Laporte Amazon continues on to say we want you to know that ultimately, however, we will have to capitulate and accept Macmillan’s – this is like the cable war in New York City over Fox 5. This is like…

John C. Dvorak It sounds more like Göring!

Leo Laporte Yeah, we will capitulate and accept Macmillan – you just wanted me to it in German, didn’t you?

John C. Dvorak Oh yeah.

Leo Laporte And accept Macmillan’s terms because Macmillan has a monopoly over their own titles. Of course, they publish them for crying out loud! What does that mean: they have a monopoly?

Tom Merritt Well, it is interesting…

Leo Laporte You can’t buy a Macmillan book from anyone else.

Tom Merritt Right because and books are different in that way, right because once you – if you write a book, you have the sole rights to sell that whole book.

Patrick Norton You can’t sell it to three publishers.

Tom Merritt Right and that…

John C. Dvorak No, you could but they would all have to agree to it.

Tom Merritt Yeah right, but most of the time you don’t.

John C. Dvorak Of course not.

Leo Laporte And we will want to offer Macmillan books to you even at prices we believe are needlessly high for eBooks. Now that's a good point they are making. There’s no print here. There is no truck, there is no ink, there is no…

Tom Merritt No remainder system.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Tom Merritt That they have to take returns and resell it.

Leo Laporte So they are saying this is - $15 is too high for eBooks. Amazon customers will at that point decide for themselves whether they believe it’s reasonable to pay 14.99 for a best selling eBook, Apple, Apple. We don’t believe that all of the major publishers will take the same route as Macmillan and we know for sure…

Patrick Norton They will now.

John C. Dvorak No, I have still a lot of friends in the publishing business back there in New York City and they hate Amazon and one of the things – it’s not so much the fact that yeah there is no printers, there is no trucks and there is none of the rest of it but the problem is, what you have is you have a bunch of grousing writers and agents because the – typically, especially with best sellers which is what we are talking about here. They don’t take the kind of mediocre little royalties that you and I would get, maybe 10 to 15% of the wholesale price. They take a piece of the retail, suggested retail.

Leo Laporte Off the top maybe.

John C. Dvorak And it is a big chunk.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

John C. Dvorak Well, now the retail price goes from $40 to 9.95, well who’s going to be complaining the most?

Leo Laporte I don’t know, I…

John C. Dvorak Now the writer gets what, nothing?

Leo Laporte Math is hard, I don’t know what, who…the authors, okay.

Tom Merritt Yeah, I mean that's – it’s a fight that Amazon’s been in since the 90s when they started undercutting the prices, I mean they sort of were the leaders in this business of chopping down prices on stuff; in some cases selling niche books for less than they paid for them in order to grab business. And independent books sellers were crying foul back then because they were like, look we can’t compete with this because they’re just – they’re not taking a profit on some things and driving us out of business.

Leo Laporte Let me tell you a little story I heard today. Last night a major author was about to appear on a major network radio show and was shocked to learn that his book was no longer available on Amazon. He couldn’t list it on his website with his Amazon affiliate link, which by the way is a hell a lot more money than we ever got for royalties, and was furious and said he’s talking to authors about a class action law suit against Macmillan because he lost a ton of money because when he made that appearance, he didn’t sell any books. I mean there is – some authors want to be on Amazon, John, regardless of the cut.

John C. Dvorak Yeah but you are talking about a guy. If a guy is making most of his money on affiliate sales, he’s not the same kind of – he’s not a Danielle Steele, I can assure you and the guys and the publishing business is just like any other media business where the big names, I mean this is like the record industry, the show business model for the recording industry where Britney Spears brings in more money than almost everybody else and everyone else’s a lost leader. Well these people, the Danielle Steeles and the Tom Clancys and all the rest of them, the Grishams – these are the guys who – these are the guys who wag the tail and what they say goes. These other guys who are moaning and groaning, they sell 10,000 books maybe, maybe 50,000 books. It’s nothing and they have no influence whatsoever.

Leo Laporte What if – what if Apple did on the iBookstore what they did with the iTunes store and let authors sell books directly without a publisher and let them set price as apparently they are going to do for publishers? Wouldn’t authors prefer that model?

Tom Merritt I mean you can already do that sort of by putting your book out as an App.

Leo Laporte You can do that on Amazon, even right? Oh yeah as an App on the iPhone store, right. In fact a lot of people do that. In fact I think the iPad might be a really good way to do that because you could do multimedia, you could put video and audio in an App, you could make it a really cool book.

Tom Merritt Like a “vook”.

Leo Laporte A “vook”.

John C. Dvorak I think there is a future in that but not for these big names.

Leo Laporte No, Danielle Steele doesn’t know how to do multimedia.

John C. Dvorak Why should she?

Tom Merritt It’s quite similar to the music business, right, where the big huge stars like John is talking about are really the ones stand to lose the most from the new system but the new system is coming and so all the battles are how do we get to keep as much of the money that we used to make under the old system in the new system because this whole supply chain in publishing is just getting torn apart. You don’t need to have all of that stuff that Leo was talking about, with the warehouses and the trucks, and the middle man…

Leo Laporte Just like music. It’s the same thing that happened in the music industry. Anne Rice by the way according to Who? Me? in our chat room has posted on the Kindle forum saying she’s thinking about doing that, going direct. If you are a name like Anne Rice, with a huge following and you said I am going to put my next Vampire book out by myself…

Tom Merritt She doesn’t write Vampire books any more.

Leo Laporte She writes Jesus books now.

Tom Merritt Yeah. But if they are popular put your name on it and sell it.

Leo Laporte I bought it.

Patrick Norton Didn’t Stephen King have a – and I believe it was pre-Kindle, but…

Leo Laporte He flopped, yeah.

Patrick Norton Didn’t Stephen King have a rather dramatic failure with this recently?

Leo Laporte Yes. Well, but you’re right. It was pre-Kindle. He published a chapter at a time and he wanted people to pay for it directly and he said because I didn’t make nearly enough money and so he…

Patrick Norton A chapter at a time when there wasn’t an ebook reader. I’m not sure about that.

Leo Laporte He also had a blackmail scheme because he said like I’m not going to finish the book unless enough people buy it.

John C. Dvorak Now you’re talking.

Leo Laporte With the real [ph] Oral (43:33) Roberts kind of a…

John C. Dvorak Now you are talking.

Tom Merritt Yeah.

Leo Laporte I don’t know. I like the idea of disintermediating the publishers but I also think that Amazon poses a real threat because this is fairly monopolistic. They are trying to set the price, and it’s interesting that they are doing it now when the iPad, when the real competition is appearing from Apple as well as Barnes and Noble.

Tom Merritt Well, Sony’s got a wireless device now. They’re in the game again. They are not behind the curve, so then and the Nook is out there too and if you can…

Leo Laporte I think though the iPad sales will in the first year dwarf all three combined.

Tom Merritt Really?

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Patrick Norton It doesn’t mean people will actually use them to read books.

Leo Laporte Well that’s what Jobs said, isn’t it? He says, ‘who reads anymore?’

Tom Merritt Yeah, that’s right.

Leo Laporte I am not going to build a device for people who read. That’s like 20% of the population.

Tom Merritt He also said video didn’t belong in the iPod and then look what happened to that.

Leo Laporte Yeah that’s a little disingenuous, yeah. I – I am again getting back to the iPad. I think as a content device where you read a book or you read a magazine or you read your newspaper, I mean it’s going to be pretty cool.

Tom Merritt I think it’s better for magazines, for periodicals.

Leo Laporte It’s great for periodicals.

Tom Merritt Magazines and newspapers.

Leo Laporte And the Kindle really falls down on periodicals. It’s not color, you can’t skim.

Tom Merritt What’s the news about Twitter today?

Leo Laporte We haven’t pissed off enough people. What’s the latest from Twitter?

John C. Dvorak You need a bumper.

Leo Laporte The Twitter – fwoom! – bumper. Let’s see. There are – there must be some other stories. I’ll tell you what, let’s take a break while you guys search for something to talk about.

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Is that – did John blank out of his screen?

Patrick Norton It’s foggy.

Leo Laporte Looks like a piece of – it’s foggy in…

Patrick Norton It’s foggy in John’s house now.

Leo Laporte The Dvorak cottage. He does that. It’s like he’s going off and doing something in the same room. I don’t understand.

Patrick Norton I got a story.

Leo Laporte Yes, sir.

Patrick Norton Anybody catch the articles that Comcast is starting IPv6 trials, because they’re finally running out of IPv4 addresses?

Leo Laporte No kidding?

Patrick Norton The sky has slowly been falling for a decade now. And it’s getting closer to our heads.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Patrick Norton Well I know like the – pretty much all the government sourcing – and this has driven, I think, a lot of the IT industry to follow – that basically they’ve been – everything has to be IPv6-ready. That’s been purchased by the federal government for several years now. But yeah, Ars Technica, I was reading an article, it basically says they’re looking for volunteers to be in IPv6 trials. So they’ve been playing around with it for a while, but now they’re actually getting serious about rolling it out to end-users.

[Jingling noise]

Leo Laporte What the hell, is Santa Clause in the house?

Patrick Norton Oh, the dog tags. The dog finally woke up.

Leo Laporte So how does that work? I mean is all my hardware and software ready to go and IPv6 compatible or…?

John C. Dvorak No.

Patrick Norton Well, it depends – actually John, it really depends on the hardware and software. Anything you bought in the last couple of years in all the Microsoft and…

Leo Laporte Do I just check a box?

Patrick Norton …pretty much all the major operating systems should be IPv6 ready. I don’t think you’re actually going to have to change the cable modem box. It’d be interesting if they had to.

Tom Merritt Or if they could push a firmware.

Patrick Norton But they basically said they’re running out of IPv4 addresses. So, here we go – ‘Comcast plans four trials’ – this is from the Ars Technica article. The first one will use a transition technique that’s still under development, called 6RD. It’s an automatic tunneling mechanism similar to 6to4 that’s available in Windows. The difference is that 6RD only tunnels IPv6 packets across an IPv4-only part of the service provider's network, which is kind of interesting. Then they’re actually going to go to native IPv6. The third trial will be basically IPv4 encapsulated in IPv6 to get across IPv6-only parts…

Leo Laporte Oh, it’s encapsulated. So that means it’ll still – I don’t have to change anything?

Tom Merritt Right. You don’t have to change a router or your…

Patrick Norton Although it seemed to be more on their network, the tests for their network moreso than the end-users.

Tom Merritt [Indiscernible] (49:02) modem; I got it.

Leo Laporte So the issue with IPv4 was it, it only – it had too small an address space because it’s four dotted quads. So that means 65 – what is it, how many – no, two trillion – I can’t even know – I don’t even know. Two billion addresses. And that’s not enough, if everybody has an address. But we did – we kind of put off the problem because we were using routers.

Patrick Norton Yeah.

Leo Laporte So it wasn’t like my refrigerator needed its own address, I just had it on my local network.

John C. Dvorak [Indiscernible] (49:30) providers themselves minimize the number of IP addresses. They pooled them.

Leo Laporte But with IPv6…

John C. Dvorak There’s a lot of shared addresses.

Leo Laporte Right, because they have a pool.

Tom Merritt You don’t need network address translation because everything does get an IP…

Leo Laporte There’s enough – [ph] Vince Surf (49:44) said there’s enough – I remember he talked about this on the Screens Savers, Patrick. There’s enough IP addresses in IPv6’s space for every molecule in the galaxy to have its own IP address. Well, I guess that’s enough.

Patrick Norton Yeah. Well they’re saying – I guess from what Comcast was saying is like between – they’ve got like 25 million TV, 15 million ISP, 6 million Comcast Digital Voice subscribers. And so the 16.8 million private addresses they’re sitting on in their network space, in their assigned space isn’t enough.

Leo Laporte Well no wonder they’re running out. Yeah.

Tom Merritt This doesn’t sound too urgent, though. Because when you go to sign up, they say ‘note that submitting this form does not guarantee your participation.’ So they’re not sounding a note of like, please, please hurry.

Leo Laporte What do you think about Comcast buying NBC? I mean here we are – we all worked for a company that was purchased by Comcast, watched it go down in flames.

Patrick Norton It didn’t – it didn’t go down in flames.

Leo Laporte No, it still exists, in fact.

Patrick Norton And there are some great shows out there, there’s some people…

Leo Laporte You’re being so diplomatic, Patrick. I’m…

John C. Dvorak He’s looking for work.

Leo Laporte Must be. Wow!

Patrick Norton No. I’m happily employed right now, John. But I mean it’s also because I’ve still got some friends that still work on Attack of the Show, and it’s people saying nasty stuff about Attack of the Show because it’s not The Screen Savers. It was never meant to be The Screen Savers.

Leo Laporte Well it was when it was first named The Screen Savers.

Patrick Norton Well, but – I mean when they shut it down and relaunched it as Attack of the Show.

Leo Laporte I mean I have to say I resented that just the slightest bit.

Patrick Norton But steering the ship towards the original question, do you think – what do you think the problems with NBC being bought by Comcast are? I don’t think they are going to be analogous at all. Yeah, I mean when Comcast bought TechTV, they wanted the carriage.

Leo Laporte Right.

Patrick Norton And they bought it for G4, it’s like a little present for G4.

Leo Laporte Yeah, it’s a gift.

Patrick Norton And with NBC, I think what Comcast is up to is they want someone to take over their channels. They’ve got G4 of course, and they also have E!, the Comcast Sports Network, Golf Channel, I may be missing a couple more.

Leo Laporte So they want NBC to run these channels?

Patrick Norton I think they’re like, look, you know what? Take these, NBC Universal. Run them.

John C. Dvorak That is an outstanding theory. I like it.

Patrick Norton Yeah, but I don’t buy it. Because – first of all, I think Comcast channels – some of Comcast’s channels are actually doing better than some of NBC. And I’m grossly oversimplifying. But NBC itself – NBC’s subsidiary, the smaller channels on the network, are doing a lot better than the actual NBC…

Leo Laporte CNBC is very successful.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, but that’s the point, they do well and that’s a perfect example of what you – you take that model, doing that what you just described well and then dropping it on top of all these other Comcast properties, same management structure, should be a winner.

Patrick Norton Are they doing it for that, or are they doing it because they want a movie studio and they want to be a larger presence on the entertainment side of things?

Tom Merritt I think that’s true also. I don’t think it’s an either/or question. Yeah.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, I agree.

Patrick Norton Okay.

Leo Laporte In fact, Comcast has had trouble with its content arms. Remember Liberty, they spun that off, that was the content creation arm for Comcast. And they didn’t want to really be in that content business. So you’re saying that they still don’t want to be in the content business, they’re going to run NBC Universal as independent, spin all their content stuff that they’re trying to get rid of into that.

Tom Merritt Well, I think they want to be in that business, but they don’t want to be the ones having to manage it. So they buy the expertise by buying NBC.

John C. Dvorak That’s right, the core competence.

Patrick Norton Similar to what CBS did when they bought CNET Networks was, we want people who already do this to be the interactive.

Leo Laporte And just kind of let them go off and do their own thing. Well, that would be very good for NBC. I would…

John C. Dvorak At least until next Friday’s firings.

Leo Laporte Yeah, we’ll see. We’ll see. We’ll see. We’ll see.

Patrick Norton But do you think there’s a Comcast-NBC conflict coming as far as carriage on the internet? You know, if you’ve got a Comcast ISP and they start – I mean, are we going to have a net neutrality battle coming after this is…?

Leo Laporte Well, don’t – if I were CBS, I’d be a little unhappy about the nation’s largest cable company owning a television network. Because don’t they now have pride of place in there and don’t – I mean…?

Patrick Norton [Indiscernible] (53:42) they already have almost all of NBC Universal channels, almost all of them are in primary – they’re in basic cable. Not all of them, but certainly quite a few – I mean, NBC, Telemundo, Bravo, USA…

Leo Laporte I just hate it when I see companies merge like this, because it just seems to me it’s just going to be bad for competition.

Tom Merritt Well there’s [indiscernible] (53:58) they will pull out of Hulu.

John C. Dvorak I agree with you too, Leo.

Leo Laporte Wow, John. You’re nice guy. They’re going to pull out of Hulu they might as well, right, because they’ve got – Comcast has The Fan. What does NBC need? The truth is, all of the people who are participating in Hulu, it’s a very uneasy relationship. They don’t like Hulu, they want to do it themselves.

Tom Merritt Yeah.

Leo Laporte CBS does it themselves.

Tom Merritt Right, because CBS has

Leo Laporte Right.

Tom Merritt And, so Hulu’s like, no way.

Leo Laporte No way.

Tom Merritt You don’t belong over here.

Leo Laporte And NBC, I imagine will just move to the fan, of course if you are not a Comcast customer that’s not such a good thing.

Tom Merritt Or that TV Anywhere thing…

Leo Laporte Right.

Tom Merritt …that Comcast is planning.

Leo Laporte Right, right, they are doing that now. I can subscribe to my TV on the internet basically, and any channel that I get as a Comcast customer, I can stream. I can watch I Dream of Jeannie.

Tom Merritt And that’s pretty compelling when you’re just – you get the thing, mailer and you look at it and you are like, oh really?

Leo Laporte It keeps me as a customer of their high-priced…

John C. Dvorak What’s this deal? I didn’t even know about this.

Leo Laporte So you go to and you look and you can see how much anything that you can see on your television is now streaming on Comcast. Which to me…

Patrick Norton [Indiscernible] (55:03) HD quality.

Leo Laporte It’s not very good, it’s like Hulu, it’s like everything else.

Patrick Norton No, no, I mean, for the – actually the [ph] main to the (55:06) the regular cable service – has it gotten better? Because it used to be pretty atrocious here in San Francisco.

Leo Laporte How’s the HD quality of television shows on Comcast?

Patrick Norton Yeah, on the – on the regular cable. Not the streaming online stuff, the actual cable stuff.

Leo Laporte Looks okay, haven’t really thought about it. Looks fine to me. But I’m an idiot.

Patrick Norton Hardly.

Leo Laporte I don’t know, I can’t tell. You know, I…

Patrick Norton If you’re not looking at it and recoiling in horror, that’s [indiscernible] (55:31)…

Leo Laporte No, it looks like high-def to me.

Patrick Norton That means it’s better than it used to be in San Francisco.

Leo Laporte Yeah, no I haven’t recoiled.

Patrick Norton Okay.

Tom Merritt There is no recoil.

Leo Laporte There is no recoil – it’s a recoil-less.

Tom Merritt You don’t hold your remote to your shoulder, though.

Leo Laporte Oh, yeah, very important. You don’t want to have the TV hit you in the cheek. You get some real bruising.


I just – a note from our chat-room, and I think this is really cool. You know, I have an OLPC sitting right behind me that I’ve never really used. I bought it when they did that two-for-one deal and I donated, you know, an OLPC to some poor kids somewhere, I don’t remember where. And you get one for free, right? Because I wanted to look at the OPLC.

Well there is now at, the home of the OLPC, a opportunity to donate your unused – even if it’s unworking – OLPC, to Haiti. I think that’s a really cool idea. If you have an unused XO laptop, you can give it to a displaced student in Haiti, as you know most of the schools fell to the ground. Lot of the students, even if they survived the earthquake, have nowhere to go.

Tom Merritt And you can still do the buy-and-donate as well…

Leo Laporte Can you? Oh, that’s neat.

Tom Merritt … if you want to. But yeah, I think it’s a smart idea to say, hey, there’s probably a lot of people who bought this to play around with, they don’t use it anymore. Let’s get it to somebody who can actually use it.

Leo Laporte Absolutely. I’m going to do this tonight. This is really – I’m really thrilled to be able to do this. So if you go to OLPC –, they’re a wiki – OLPC for Haiti. And they give an address, you can ship it there, and the OLPCorps field volunteers in Haiti will distribute them as part of rebuilding around Port-au-Prince. I think this is really neat. This is really neat.

And is the original cardboard box required? No. XO laptops are quite tough.

Tom Merritt They are pretty – it’s pretty hard shell around them, I’ll give them that.

Leo Laporte They’re not going to be able to give you a tax receipt. You’re not going to get a charitable deduction here.

Tom Merritt Really not? It’s interesting.

John C. Dvorak Why not?

Leo Laporte It says, ‘due to legal reasons on a personal level, we strongly appreciate your gift.’

John C. Dvorak What legal reasons?

Tom Merritt I think because when you bought it in the first place, you could take a tax deduction on that purchase.

Leo Laporte Maybe it was charitable deduction then. I don’t know. I don’t care. How much is it worth? Come on.

John C. Dvorak I’m just saying, it sounds fishy. The…

Leo Laporte John, you’re such a cranky person. You should do a show like where you just get to be cranky.

John C. Dvorak The thing is, you know we did the No Agenda show this morning?

Leo Laporte Yeah?

John C. Dvorak And it turns out that right in – apparently Haiti is now sitting on top of Saudi Arabia oil reserve.

Leo Laporte Really? Well that’s good for us, isn’t it? Actually, you know what, if you…

John C. Dvorak Yeah, it’s great for us, are you kidding me?

Leo Laporte Oh, wait a minute. This – this goes back to Adam’s original conspiracy theory that the whole earthquake was created by a giant machine under the ground, so that we could march in and save Haiti and then own the country, so when the oil reserves are discovered, we’ll be sitting pretty.

John C. Dvorak No, he never had – I’m the one who came up with the oil reserves and we’re going to take over the country. He came up with the earthquake machine.

Leo Laporte He was the one with the earthquake machine? Okay.

Tom Merritt It was kind of joint effort.

Leo Laporte Another reason to listen to the…

John C. Dvorak This is a joint effort. Without joints, I might add.

Tom Merritt That surprises me.

Leo Laporte That’s amazing and I’m not sure it’s true in the case of Adam Curry, but anyway. He’s always toking on something, is it just a cigarette?

John C. Dvorak Yeah, he rolls his own.

Leo Laporte Uh huh. So every time I ever talk to Adam like on Skype, just with audio, there is always this [makes puffing noise] going on, and then matches lighting. So that’s just – that’s just tobaccy?

John C. Dvorak Yeah, and it’s a fact, he used to in fact – I don’t want…

Leo Laporte He lives in Holland, it’s not illegal, right?

John C. Dvorak He used to smoke a lot of dope. He stopped smoking it a couple of years ago. And he used to, even when he came over, would mix dope in with his tobacco because he’s a smoker.

Leo Laporte That’s a very Dutch thing to do, yeah.

John C. Dvorak And you know, one time I was walking down the street with him, I said, what the – what – how much marijuana you got in that thing? And so he toned it down a little bit. But now he’s got nothing.

Leo Laporte Good.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, I think that is good. People shouldn’t be…

Leo Laporte Probably got no brain cells left.

John C. Dvorak Once you’re past 20 years old, you shouldn’t be smoking weed.

Leo Laporte

John C. Dvorak

Leo Laporte Sorry, And you guys run that whole thing on donations and somebody told me that you’re both making a good living on donations.

John C. Dvorak [Laughter].

Leo Laporte That’s what thought. That was actually my reaction exactly.

Tom Merritt They have – they have a [indiscernible] (59:38) show.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, right.

Leo Laporte It might pay for the papers anyway.

Tom Merritt Should we talk about the anti-counterfeiting treaty act?

Leo Laporte ACTA. Which has nothing to do with counterfeiting.

Tom Merritt Or trade agreement, not treaty act, what am I talking about?

Leo Laporte Yeah, it has every – well it is treaty, and that’s one of the reasons ACTA’s going on. Michael Geist has written a lot about this in – he’s the Canadian Larry Lasik basically. He’s a lawyer, teaches law, I think in Ontario, and writes a great blog. And he was the guy who discovered the terms of this ACTA Treaty, because they were – they’re secret.

This is a treaty that countries are being asked to sign – become a signatory to. And then, of course, because it’s a treaty, it will be rubber-stamped by Congress. And it’s a very clever backdoor attempt to get the Three Strikes Law enacted, not just all around the world but here in the U.S.

John C. Dvorak I thought we already had Three Strikes laws.

Leo Laporte Not that kind of Three Strikes. The Three Strikes I’m talking about – the ACTA treaty – this is…

John C. Dvorak Oh, you’re kidding me.

Leo Laporte This is so horrible. If you are accused – not convicted, not proven, just accused by a rights holder, in other words the record industry or the movie industry, of piracy on your internet connection, three times – so they write to your provider once. You do it again, they write again, you do it again, they write again. They have, without recourse to a court of law and without due process, according to the treaty, they have the right to cut you off. Your internet service provider will be required to cut you off and then publish your name to a blacklist so that no other internet service provider can sell you access, forever.

So accused three times of piracy, accused three times of piracy, you now no longer have access to the internet for the rest of your life. Isn’t that good?

John C. Dvorak That’s – ugh.

Leo Laporte Now they passed it in France, and the only difference in France, the French parliament or whatever they call them – Assemblée nationale [indiscernible] (61:30) – said ‘we’re going to add one little fillip; that third time a judge will have to review it before we cut you off for the rest of your life.

But the treaty – the way the treaty is written, they would prefer not to have that court thing. That just slows it down.

Patrick Norton And the British one that they were talking about was particularly creepy. Because they were talking about a 50,000 pound fine if someone in your house is accused of filesharing, starting – what do they call it – I don’t know if they had a name for this agency that was basically going to use RIAA cronies or whatever the British equivalent is to basically like…

John C. Dvorak RIAA cronies.

Tom Merritt Yeah, to basically – to go after anybody they want and enact new laws without having to deal with silly things like the legislature.

Leo Laporte And this is a real clever backdoor attempt, because if it becomes a treaty, then the U.S. just kind of rubber-stamps it and it becomes the law here to. So now they’re having hearings – secret hearings – in Mexico.

Tom Merritt Yeah, the seventh round of negotiations happened in Mexico this week.

John C. Dvorak You have to have secret meetings.

Leo Laporte Yeah, because they don’t want anybody to know what the rules are.

Tom Merritt Well, they claim that it’s because it’s a National Security – that’s what the Obama Administration says; tt’s a National Security Issue.

Leo Laporte Terrorists!

John C. Dvorak Terrorists. Terrorist downloaders.

Tom Merritt And that we can’t conduct fruitful negotiations on this important anti-counterfeiting agreement unless we do it in secret. And we are doing it with the best interest of the United States in mind and all that sort of thing.

John C. Dvorak Well, if it’s just about counterfeiting currency, I would have no objection to this.

Tom Merritt It’s supposed to be about counterfeiting goods, right, you know like DVDs…

John C. Dvorak Chinese counterfeiting of these various Louis Vuitton purses?

Tom Merritt But they’re slipping in all of this IP enforcement, yeah, they’re slipping in all of this IP enforcement that applies to the internet, that would actually make it the DMCA worldwide. So you would have the same broken process where anyone can accuse anyone of copyright infringement and have to have stuff taken down and used as a club without any kind of court supervision worldwide. Anti-camcorder rules…

Leo Laporte That’s the one also where they can search your laptop as you cross the border.

Tom Merritt Border enforcement measures would go into play, statutory damages, which the Jamie Thomas case is actually finding against right now.

Leo Laporte Thank goodness. Yeah, she got it cut down to $54,000.

Tom Merritt But this sort of like – it doesn’t matter – just making available a file would mean that you could owe hundreds of thousands of dollars per file you were accused of bringing across. So – and it would not only have every country that signs under the treaty have to have these laws in place, but also any country who’s not part of the treaty would then come under a lot of pressure to join if they want to keep their trade negotiations. And they don’t even get to be a part of the secret negotiations.

Leo Laporte So right now, Australia, Canada, The European Union, Jordan, Mexico, Morocco, New Zealand, Republic of Korea, Singapore and The United Arab Emirates are involved in these negotiations. Switzerland and Japan as well. And they’re all being held secretly. Thank goodness for Michael Geist, who has really kind of revealed this information.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, this is a nice website he’s got, I’m looking at it now.

Leo Laporte Yeah, he’s great. Really smart guy. We interviewed him when I was up in Canada doing Call For Help, and I just – people should read up on this. The Electronic Frontier Foundation has an ACTA page as well, And the more you know about this, the more appalled you will be. One of the things – I’ll give you an example. In Korea, South Korea, which is famous –I know, John, you were just there, famous for its high-speed Internet and its open Internet. They passed ACTA in the Republic of Korea and – have they passed it? Yeah, I think they have passed it. And one of the things they ban is Internet hard drives. So things like Carbonite, things like SkyDrive…

John C. Dvorak What?

Leo Laporte Things like S3…

Patrick Norton It could potentially be used for naughty things, John. We have to make it illegal.

Leo Laporte Yeah because pirates would use it to store content off of their system.

John C. Dvorak No. That’s dumb.

Tom Merritt And opposing ACTA, or opposing the secret negotiation of ACTA or the provisions in ACTA doesn’t mean you support piracy; it means that you don’t want to have people accused of piracy without actually having some proof, and you want the punishment to fit the crime. That’s the way I feel. It’s not about saying, ‘hey, we think piracy is cool.’ And that’s sort of the message that the IRA and the MPA want to put out there; is ‘if you oppose these sort of measures, well then you’re obviously supporting the terrorists, you’re supporting the pirates.’

And that’s not what it’s about it all; it’s about having fair rules that – and the way DMCA works right now is ridiculous. If I just don’t like Leo, I can go and send take-down notices against him without any basis and hope that he doesn’t have enough money to come back and prove I didn’t have any basis, and then I pull his content down; its censorship.

Leo Laporte We got to really fight this stuff. These guys are nuts, just nuts. Anyway, find out more: You can read about it, you can read about – and help fight it too. I mean I’m a sustaining monthly donor to EFF.

Tom Merritt People in the chatroom are like ‘don’t send take down notices against Leo!’ That was just an example.

Leo Laporte Yeah, please don’t.

John C. Dvorak Don’t send takedown…

Leo Laporte Please don’t even mention that, that it’s possible, please?

Tom Merritt I’m not going to do that.

Leo Laporte Hey, as long as we’re unhappy with the Obama administration, here’s some more good news. With the release…

John C. Dvorak Who’s unhappy?

Patrick Norton Leo is.

Leo Laporte I’m unhappy.

John C. Dvorak Okay.

Leo Laporte Well, because of ACTA and now this. With the release of the Presidents’ budget request, NASA will get the marching orders from – this is from the Washington Post – the new administration’s marching orders, and there’s nothing in there about going to the moon.

Tom Merritt No more budget for the moon.

John C. Dvorak I though they were going to the moon.

Leo Laporte No. The budget kills the Constellation program. This is the one that George W. Bush, my hero…

Patrick Norton It doesn’t fund it. It doesn’t kill it…

Leo Laporte It just doesn’t fund it. You can go to the moon but we won’t pay for it.

Tom Merritt That’s kind of what you were saying, right?

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Tom Merritt They’re saying privatize it. If private companies wants to go to the moon, we encourage that.

Leo Laporte It also kills the Ares 1 rocket which was the successor to the space shuttle; already we’ve spent billions developing it.

Tom Merritt And that undermines Mars because the point of going to the moon was not so much just to return to the moon as to develop the ability...

Leo Laporte Right, it’s the first stage – step to Mars, yeah.

Tom Merritt …to leapfrog on to Mars.

Leo Laporte Former NASA administrator, Michael Griffin, views the Obama budget as disastrous for human spaceflight. “It means essentially the U.S. has decided they are not going to be a significant player in human spaceflight for the foreseeable future.” The path they’re on with this budget is a path that can’t work. Yeah, I guess we’re in economic trouble, but boy, it just seems like that’s – it’s so little money, really.

John C. Dvorak Ah, they never wanted to do it in the first place.

Leo Laporte I guess not.

John C. Dvorak I mean there’s that latest thing.

Leo Laporte What’s that? Oh, you meant the puffin? I want one of those.

John C. Dvorak No, the latest thing is they are going to privatize the whole space program.

Leo Laporte That’s alright. Maybe that’ll work. The budget is boosted by more than a billion a year and that’s what you’re going to hear of course is that – well, wait a minute what are you talking about? We’re increasing the budget by a billion a year but they need 3 billion to pursue the human spaceflight program. So it’s under-funded I guess. But Paul Allen could just give them a couple of bill.

John C. Dvorak He could fund the whole thing.

Leo Laporte Bill Gates another couple of bill.

Tom Merritt And that is kind of what they are hinting about is we would like to push this into the private sector more. You want to go to the moon, fine. Get the rich people to go to the moon.

Leo Laporte Get the rich people – that’s the problem. They’re going to leave us here.

John C. Dvorak Let’s send the rich people to the moon!

Leo Laporte They’re going to leave us. We’re all going to be alone – all the rich people will be living on the moon in their special moon penthouses, having super moon parties.

John C. Dvorak Hey, I’m going to tell you right now they’re going to be freezing their butts off those people.

Leo Laporte Well, you know Paul Allen built that big yacht just so he could be the king of the party, right? I think Paul should build a little moon unit.

Tom Merritt I think it is scary how little science we fund right now.

Leo Laporte Oh, I know. It’s shortsighted.

Tom Merritt When you consider that we let the LHC to go to Europe. We have killed the space shuttle program so we’re now relying on Russia to get up into space and back, and now this where we’re under-funding the one major project that we had going on. Other than some very important and very good telescopes and surveys and missions like that, I’m not sure what we’re up to and how we maintain a lead in scientific advancements and scientific exploration.

Leo Laporte I understand people say ‘oh no; you got to spend the money here on Earth, we’re in crisis, we got a fiscal, budgetary crisis and also we’ve got poverty and we should spend this money to support people at home.’ But I think there’s also some – is there not some benefit to the thought that you might want to leave the planet, find out more about the planet, maybe even…

Patrick Norton Yeah, but I mean we’ve also got a Congress that, for several years, managed to – just an administration that was against stem cell research, we’ve got a population divided on what’s appropriate in medical research.

Leo Laporte I guess.

Patrick Norton I mean, it’s sad but a lot of the advancement in science is just –

Leo Laporte We can’t afford it.

Patrick Norton It’s not as popular. It’s not even not afford it; people are outright against it…

John C. Dvorak I agree.

Patrick Norton …at least until someone in their family suffers a traumatic accident and then suddenly maybe it’s not so evil after all.

John C. Dvorak We seem to have an anti-science bias that’s kind of crept into the conversation, largely because the educational system – and I’ve argues this, I’ve always thought Obama should have emphasized that to begin with.

Leo Laporte It’s a vicious circle, too, because the less you’re educated…

John C. Dvorak Yeah you get a bunch of dummies and then they don’t understand that you know – it’s just ridiculous. It’s a vicious circle of dummydom.

Leo Laporte But you know, this country going back to Adlai Stevenson has always been anti-intellectual, and anti-egghead, right.

John C. Dvorak No it was before – way before Stevenson.

Tom Merritt Oh yeah, go back to Andrew Jackson I think.

Leo Laporte Was he an egg-head?

Tom Merritt Yeah, he was the first of the Presidents, who was like ‘I’m not part of that liberal elite.’

Leo Laporte Damned smart-pants!

Tom Merritt I’m going to let my friends into the Whitehouse [indiscernible] (71:26).

John C. Dvorak [indiscernible] (71:27) he wasn’t an egg-head. I think the first real egg-head we had in office, which is a term by the way, an endearing term that was used in the 50s by our parents, was Woodrow Wilson.

Leo Laporte He was a professor at Princeton University.

Tom Merritt Jefferson was pretty [indiscernible] (1:11:37)

Patrick Norton Adams; John Adams was an egg-head on some level. He was a functional lawyer.

Leo Laporte John Adams was a very smart guy.

Tom Merritt That’s true.

Leo Laporte I saw the HBO TV show; I know all about him.

Tom Merritt He looks a lot like Russ Pitts.

Leo Laporte Just looks like Russ Pitts, exactly right. I never thought of that. Paul Giamatti looks just like the producer, the web producer we used to have, Russ Pitts. It’s the side burns.

Tom Merritt


Leo Laporte And the grouchy attitude, the demeanor.

Patrick Norton But I mean, Thomas Jefferson was certainly –

Leo Laporte He founded the University of Virginia.

Tom Merritt He was [ph] misquoted in the Republican [indiscernible] (72:13).

Leo Laporte So when – so do you think we have a kind of – do we have a bipolar relationship to intellectuals?

John C. Dvorak Kill them!

Leo Laporte Kill them.

Patrick Norton The country has always been [ph] volatile (72:18). We’ve gone from like 80% of the population living in rural environments to 80% of the population living in cities, to 80% of the population living in the suburbs now. I mean, the country has always been divided, it has always had radical differences, even the founding of the company, the country was – there’s a Freudian slip – was like you read about the battles that went on between the…

Leo Laporte Do you think – and I say this is as a parent about to have a senior in high school to enter college and then another one shortly thereafter, do you think we could ever in this country do as Sweden does and have free higher education or is that just really crazy?

Patrick Norton Well we did have free higher education…

John C. Dvorak We did.

Patrick Norton …in the State of California and then the people responsible for decided it was much more important to preserve – and there’s this two arguments; there’s proposition 13, right. Proposition 13 was put in place in California…

Leo Laporte It was a property tax cap.

John C. Dvorak That’s because they were killing us with property tax jack-ups.

Patrick Norton Well, it wasn’t, yeah, which because the value of the land was going up, right. So people – and I’ve seen this happen. Case in point, like ranchers – there were couple of ranchers near Vail, Colorado.And because Vail would – suddenly like 1969 or 1970 they start this ski resort, property values became astronomical. So people who’d been ranching there for 100 plus years, suddenly there was absolutely no possible way to pay the property taxes on their ranches, so they got pushed out, all right.

Here in California, people who’d been living in LA, in Berkeley, in San Francisco and all these other cities; Orange County, San Diego, the property values started going berserk. So people, especially people on fixed incomes, could no longer pay the property taxes and would have to sell or lose their homes. So the idea was that, okay, we’re going to lock this down, we’re going to – and we’re going to lock – we’re going to cap the cost of property taxes but they did it for civilians, they did it for people, they did for businesses. So there’s businesses that are sitting on unbelievable amounts of property that the property taxes haven’t changed on the since – what was it John, – 76, 77, when this was…

John C. Dvorak It was a while ago, yes. Something like that.

Leo Laporte 77, yeah.

Patrick Norton And then you have all of the other expenses, the population explosion in California.

John C. Dvorak But, you know you have to stay on the property to get that deal; you couldn’t be jumping around. I mean, if you move you get a different rate, right.

Leo Laporte Yeah, you get re-accessed.

Patrick Norton But I mean, if most of the people if they move, they are moving to significantly less expensive places in more rural sections.

John C. Dvorak Right.

Leo Laporte It made sense for older people, it made sense for fixed income people, people who were being taxed out of their homes, I understood that. But it also…

Patrick Norton But the reality is is that it gutted the budget for the state.

Leo Laporte Killed higher education.

John C. Dvorak No, I don’t think so. Here’s another one for you about killed higher education: they decided to come up with the lottery. Remember when they started the lottery? It was going to be ‘for education.’

Leo Laporte “Our kids win too” was the slogan they used.

John C. Dvorak And so they bring up the lottery. ‘Oh, the lottery; we’re going to be a lottery state now.’

Patrick Norton The stupid people tax.

John C. Dvorak And ‘all the money’s going to education.’ So what do they do? They – yeah, it all went to education, but the money that used to go education, they just pulled the plug on it. Education ends up getting less money.

Patrick Norton Right.

Tom Merritt Well, if we can go from hyper local to hyper wide, I don’t think anti-intellectualism is a U.S. problem.

John C. Dvorak All right, this is not tech stuff, by the way, we should probably stop.

Leo Laporte It’s a global problem?

Tom Merritt I think it’s always been there. There’s always been this sort of ‘bring down the eggheads’ sort of mentality and it waxes and wanes over time.

John C. Dvorak Eat the rich!

Leo Laporte Well, speaking as an egghead, I resent it. Eat the rich!

Tom Merritt It really bothers me when people say like, ‘oh, you’re so scientific’ about something. Like that’s an insult.

John C. Dvorak ‘Eat the rich’ is my favorite.

Leo Laporte Like, ‘you’re too intelligent. Can you just dumb it down a little bit.’ And by the way, folks, what you just heard for the last ten minutes, that’s what happens when we don’t talk about Twitter and the iPad. I just wanted to…


John C. Dvorak We go crazy!

Leo Laporte We go crazy!

John C. Dvorak Let’s talk about football.

Leo Laporte Pro ball. Good idea? Bad idea?

Patrick Norton How about antivirus tools?

John C. Dvorak You’d love to do a sport show, I bet.

Leo Laporte Oh, man, no. I worked at KNBR when it went sports, the station I worked at in San Francisco, the last radio station I worked at – no, not the last, but one of the last. It went all sports, and I just felt like a fifth wheel. Man, I didn’t have – I didn’t know anything about sports.

Tom Merritt Experts…

Patrick Norton ‘That was a great tackle!’

Leo Laporte Yeah. So embarrassing. And I was – I had to be president of the Giants – San Francisco Giants fan club.

Patrick Norton But you like baseball.

Leo Laporte Well I had to like baseball. I made that my –

John C. Dvorak You got me the ball, I think.

Leo Laporte I got you a special – a signed ball?

John C. Dvorak Yeah, I think so.

Leo Laporte Who was – I got my dad a Willy Mays autograph. That was cool.

John C. Dvorak Well, that would be cool, yeah.

Leo Laporte We were campaigning for – to get the city of San Francisco to build a stadium for the Giants, because they were in the world’s worst stadium, Candlestick Park. And we got in one of them faux trolley cars, motorized cable cars.

Patrick Norton The party cars.

Leo Laporte Yeah, the party cars. And Willy Mays and I – and we went to every sports bar in town. And Willy would come in and the crowd goes crazy – because it’s Willy Mays, he’s very recognizable in San Francisco – and he’d say ‘vote for Prop W!’ and they’d go, ‘okay!’ And then we’d leave and we’d go to another bar, it was fun. That was fun.

Patrick Norton That’s a good night, man.

Leo Laporte Yeah, it was a blast. It was really, really fun. And then I’m there, I said ‘Will, could you autograph this ball for my dad?’ And he did. So that was kind of fun.

How did we get started on this?

John C. Dvorak We fell off the track, Leo.

Tom Merritt Way over there, I don’t know.

Leo Laporte Where the hell are the rails? Can we smarty-pants take a break and we’ll come back and we’ll find one more story or two, I don’t know, to talk about.

Patrick Norton Perhaps even tech stories.

Leo Laporte Please, Lord, give me a tech story. The iPad sucked all of the news out of the room, didn’t it?

Patrick Norton We could talk about Google dumping IE6.

Leo Laporte And I think the Google book deal is again on the rails. But you know, that’s like talking about ACTA. It’s another one of them subjects and just – you know, it’s like –

This is a tech story. This is something I like to talk about, I loves my Audible. Audible is the audio bookstore – you know, it’s funny, I don’t even know why they need to advertise, because there really isn’t any competition, is there? If you want to listen to audiobooks, it’s like a no-brainer; you just go to and you’re listening to the best audiobooks in the world.

I used to – when I first started commuting to San Francisco – actually it was before then, before I did the Tech TV in ’98, I was commuting to Cupertino in like ’94, ’95 doing a TV show for Ziff Davis. That was a two and a half hour commute each way on a good day. And that’s when I started listening to audiobooks. But in those days, it was books on tape or recorded books, and they would come in cassettes, like 20 cassettes in a box, and you’d have one month to listen, and if you didn’t finish the book in a month, you’d have to send it back and get it back again, oh it was a pain.

When Audible came along in 2001, my life changed. And now I just – I am such an Audible addict., you can try it, if you’ve never done it before, you can try it, two books free., you’ll go to the platinum sign-up. That’s two books a month, the first two are free.

And because the Grammys are tonight, they’ve got a list of Grammy-nominated books. Yes, they do have a Grammy nomination for Audiobooks. So these would be the best books to listen to according to the Grammy committee, Michael J. Fox’s, Always Looking Up: The Adventures of an Incurable Optimist. Or how about this? David Stratham and Richard Dreyfuss re-enacting the Lincoln-Douglas debates. Now there’s something for eggheads everywhere.

[Audio clip]

16 hours. I’d love to listen to that. So that’s nominated for – oh, how about that dramatization with Edward Herman, Sandra Oh and Michael Madsen of The Maltese Falcon? I got to listen to that.

This is all from Audible, and you get two of these for free, so you could –

[Audio clip]

Talking about you, Tom.

[Audio clip]

Whoa, I didn’t know The Maltese Falcon was so racy!

Wow, Jimmy Carter, narrating his own book, We Can Have Peace in The Holy Land. God, I hope that’s not racy. Oh, here’s something very racy, Carrie Fisher’s book – is it novel or memoir? ‘Wishful Drinking.’

Tom Merritt She’s got a one woman show of the same name.

Leo Laporte So I think it must be a memoir. Let’s see what it says. ‘Carrie Fisher tells the true and intoxicating story of her life with an inimitable wit, yes. You can only image what Carrie…’

Patrick Norton Be careful with that. That one’s racy…

[Audio clip]

So these are all the Gramminy (sic) nominated – how about Nelson Mandela’s Favorite African Folk Tales. Samuel L. Jackson, Whoopi Goldberg and Matt Damon. One of these guys is not like the other.

Dean Pitchford, Captain Nobody. Never heard of that one.

[Mysterious whistling sound]

I don’t know what that was. That can’t be Captain Nobody there.

Patrick Norton Sorry, Tyler just woke up.

Leo Laporte Oh, hi, Tyler. Hey, for kids, too, this is a great thing, Patrick – they’ve got kids books. So you can put on a recorder and kids can listen. And studies have shown that kids who are listening to audiobooks read at a higher level sooner, they get to chapter books sooner.

It’s really a great resource for everybody. I want you to go to, take a look at the Grammy nominated books. Pick a couple there. Maybe the January customer favorites – this is one of the great things about the Audible site; it’s a great way to browse. It will play on all your devices – by the way, they will work on the iPad, so you can move your books over as soon as you get your iPad, iPhone, Zune, Kindle., we thank them so much for their support of This Week in Tech.

Are you doing – is the sword and laser book…?

Yeah, we’re finishing up Cory Doctorow’s Down and Out in The Magic Kingdom.

Leo Laporte That is not on Audible, but a great book.

Tom Merritt We’ll be doing a new selection this month, and it’s open. So…

Leo Laporte So you let your fans help choose the sword and laser stuff?

Tom Merritt Yeah, we go back and forth. Sometimes we put it up to a vote, sometimes we take open recommendations, sometimes we get dictatorial and just…

Leo Laporte So how does it work, so you read Down and Out in The Magic Kingdom – which is a great book, and coined the term Whuffie.

Tom Merritt Yeah.

Leo Laporte And so you read it and then – do you have a book group over the air? I mean what is – what happens?

Tom Merritt Yeah, so we have one episode where we set it up, we talk a little bit about the background of the book and how it came about, maybe a little stuff to prep you for reading it. Then you read it; the next episode we do a wrap-up where we talk about – we take comments from people who read it…

Leo Laporte You got an interview with Daniel Suarez!

Tom Merritt And then sometimes we’ll do an interview. So in fact we’re trying to get Cory to come do an interview.

Leo Laporte Oh, Cory’ll do it, I’m sure, yeah.

Tom Merritt If he has time.

Leo Laporte Oh, he’ll do it in a minute. Daniel Suarez, wow!

John C. Dvorak Who’s Daniel Suarez?

Tom Merritt Author of Daemon and Freedom.

Leo Laporte Daemon and Freedom, those are the both – those are the next two books that I just downloaded them, I can’t wait.

John C. Dvorak Oh, that guy.

Leo Laporte You know him?

John C. Dvorak I know of that guy.

Tom Merritt You should Daemon, John. I think you might like it.

Leo Laporte I can’t wait, I’m so excited.

Tom Merritt I know reading is hard.

John C. Dvorak I can barely read the newspaper.

Leo Laporte That’s why you got to get audible, John. They read to you. It’s like having servants.

John C. Dvorak When you get older you can’t read.

Leo Laporte I can’t read!

Tom Merritt Can’t read any more than he can feel his legs.

Leo Laporte Actually that’s why I like the Kindle, because I can make the type size – like every book is a large type book.

John C. Dvorak [indiscernible] (1:23:46) One word on a page!

Leo Laporte It’s good. And then I take it to Denny’s for the Early Bird Special and I fit right in it. It’s great, a bunch of people like me.

Patrick Norton More coffee, Mr. Laporte?

Leo Laporte I can’t have any more coffee; the prostate’s acting up. It’s great; it’s really a pleasure to go in there. I flashed my AARP card and I can have all the bacon I can eat for $1.99.

John C. Dvorak You said Gramminy Awards.

Leo Laporte I did? It is the Gramminy Awards, isn’t it? My – isn’t it?

John C. Dvorak Yeah, it’s the Gramminy Awards.

Leo Laporte Gramminy Awards.

Patrick Norton Seven Gramminy Award winning author...

Tom Merritt You remember Gramminy Hall in New York?

Leo Laporte Gramminy Hall.

Tom Merritt Yeah.

Leo Laporte Yeah, wasn’t that where Tippercanoe and Tyler Too sang their famous song.

John C. Dvorak Boss Tweed.

Leo Laporte Boss Tweed; very good.

John C. Dvorak Shannon Tweed’s dad.

Leo Laporte See John – Shannon Tweed’s dad! You can’t fool John with the American History references, he’s right on the –

Tom Merritt Founders of “Tweeder”.

Leo Laporte “Tweeder”? Jeez, we just descended. So the Google book deal looks like down and out once again…

John C. Dvorak When is this going to end?

Leo Laporte Never, never because Google’s got more money than God, and Amazon is fighting it, everybody else is fighting it because Google – basically the fight is over orphaned works. Everybody agrees that if it’s a public domain, Google should be able to scan it, sell or do whatever they want, but what if it’s a book that’s not in the public domain technically, but nobody says I own it.

Tom Merritt Or even if –

John C. Dvorak Well this is an issue.

Tom Merritt Even if it’s not orphaned, but you don’t speak up, Google gets the right to sell it.

Leo Laporte That’s the problem.

Tom Merritt And if you don’t come forward to get the royalties within five years, the royalties get split up amongst Google and all the other authors in the business that have spoken up. It’s an opt out situation for every author on the planet whether you’re part of the authors’ guild or not.

Leo Laporte So Ursula K. Le Guin wrote a letter on behalf of, I think, 60 other authors saying exactly that; it should be opt out, not opt in. I mean it should be opt in, not opt out.

Tom Merritt Yeah right.

Leo Laporte You should be by default, you should retain your rights.

Tom Merritt Authors’ guild should be able to make this deal with Google for their 8,000 authors but not for every other author on the planet.

John C. Dvorak I think that there’s still a problem with these orphaned works and it’s very annoying. These things need to be their – it’s not as though, let’s face it. There’s some book, let’s say, is written about 1945 and it’s an economic book that’s kind of interesting and might be of value to people studying the science. And you can’t make any – it might be worth republishing a small run of maybe 1,000 copies. This is not like something that’s going to be a runaway bestseller. It’s not going to break anybody if don’t get it, but if the thing just stays buried with the one last copy, rotting away in some library basement, I think it’s ridiculous. They have to be able to bring these books out. It’s not as though anyone is going to really get ripped off.

Tom Merritt The problem with orphaned works is copyright …

John C. Dvorak Who’s going to get ripped off by some old orphaned work that nobody cares about?

Tom Merritt If we didn’t have copyright law extending for like three times the life of an average human, we wouldn’t have an orphaned works issue.

Leo Laporte That’s the problem. We need to fix copyright law.

John C. Dvorak I agree. That’s absolutely the case. That needs to be changed, but it’s too late; they don’t want to change that!

Patrick Norton And just as soon as Disney goes out of business, that’ll be a possibility.

Leo Laporte Well, and now of course with the Supreme Court ruling that corporations can basically give all they want to campaigns, that’s it, there’s never – copyright law will now never change, right?

Tom Merritt Because they will push all of their candidates in that they want to protect copyright law.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, stooges! Use the right word.

Tom Merritt Well it’s not quite that easy, because there’s more issues, but yeah; it makes it harder.

Patrick Norton But it’s been – the general rule of thumb is that the more money you have to throw at a particular political issue, the more likely you are to win in the age of television and other mass mediums.

Leo Laporte I thought it was an interesting debate though with the Supreme Court, because it is a form of speech to give money to a political campaign. And I mean we do protect speech. Is a corporation somehow not…?

Patrick Norton Back in the golden age – excuse me the Gilded Age, back in the 1870s and 1890s, the people that – if you scale the amount of money that Bill Gates is worth, it’s a pittance compared to a bunch of the people that were running the railroads and the oil industry, the Vanderbilts and – you know. If you look at the money that was going around back then, it already was decided over 100 years ago that corporations had the same rights as American citizens in the courts. So in some sense…

Leo Laporte That’s the problem. Are corporations really people?

Tom Merritt Corporations being treated as people, yeah.

John C. Dvorak If they’re people how come you can’t arrest one and throw ‘em in jail for murder when they kill people with their crappy products?

Patrick Norton Therein lies the rub, John. They have all of the upside of being a citizen and none of the downside. And the ability to let – the corporation can move on while the officers of the corporation get to take the rap for the decisions made.

Leo Laporte That’s why I’m a corporation, baby; you better believe it.

Tom Merritt Well even the officers don’t have to take the rap in some cases. If the corporation, like John says, conducts murder it’s just a fine, and nobody is at fault, right. Nobody goes to jail for murder, because it was a corporation.

Leo Laporte Nobody’s responsible, yeah.

Patrick Norton And if they’re really [ph] smart (1:28:38), they declare bankruptcy and shut the corporation down before they can be held liable for what they’ve done.

John C. Dvorak Which they shouldn’t be allowed to do, because that’s euthanasia which is illegal with a person! I’m just saying this is a classic example of a stupid idea.

Leo Laporte It’s bizarre.

Tom Merritt Well, it maybe a superb idea, but it’s been the law of the land for over 100 years.

John C. Dvorak It’s been an iffy law of the land.

Leo Laporte You know it was a 5-4 decision. It’s not cut and dried; obviously there’s more to it. And it did overturn several precedents – previous Supreme Court precedents.

Patrick Norton Which is a little weird, you know.

Tom Merritt Because money as speech is a tricky issue, right?

Leo Laporte Well we all know conservative judges are not activist and in fact are not making law.

Tom Merritt Right.

Leo Laporte They are just ‘upholding the constitution’ as they see it.

Tom Merritt So if I have more money than you I have more speech than you.

Leo Laporte Yeah, you have a lot more speech. You’ve got millions of dollars of speech.

Tom Merritt And so the Supreme Court is saying speech isn’t equal. Get used to it; tough luck.

Leo Laporte Yeah, that’s a good point.

Patrick Norton Well the flipside is this is also America. You can start a company, become rich and then use that money you’ve made to be as free speechy as you want, Tom.

Tom Merritt You want more speech? Succeed!

Leo Laporte Well, that’s fair.

John C. Dvorak We should be the ones talking of all the people that have a lot of extra free speech compared to the poor guys in the chat room – look at Leo!

Leo Laporte We’ve got infinite speech! Hey, you may have free speech but if you cannot go to Gmail and create a label named ‘buzz.’

Tom Merritt Yes and no.

Leo Laporte It said, well look – it says you cannot – I’m doing it right now, wouldn’t let me do it. You can’t create a label name ‘buzz’; it’s a reserved system label…

Patrick Norton Oh, there’s a good back-story there.

Tom Merritt But I created a label named Buzz.

Leo Laporte No, look at mine; see it right there. ‘Please try another name.’

Tom Merritt I know; I’m looking at mine here.

Leo Laporte Please try another name. Well – you know why you can do it? Because you’re the host of Buzz Out Loud.

Tom Merritt Okay, here’s the thing, when you do it in the – the way you just did it, it says no.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Tom Merritt But if you just go up in the labels and say – and type in ‘buzz’...

Leo Laporte Oh, you found a label loophole.

Tom Merritt ...and press create new...

John C. Dvorak What are you guys talking about?

Tom Merritt says, the conversation has been labeled buzz, and then it’s labeled.

Leo Laporte And now you have a buzz label.

Tom Merritt Yeah.

Leo Laporte That is bizarre.

Tom Merritt But why would they care? Why would buzz be a reserved label?

Leo Laporte Why would there be – I think there’s something going on here.

Tom Merritt Although when I click on that label, I see there are no conversations with label, even though I just labeled one.

Patrick Norton It’s the new programming language.

John C. Dvorak That’s a good one, Patrick.

Leo Laporte See. See.

Patrick Norton There’s a column there for you, John.

John C. Dvorak It could be.

Leo Laporte They have one called, Go. Maybe they have – they’re maybe going to do Go Buzz.

Tom Merritt I mean I understand ‘Deleted Messages’ would not be a good label because the system should have that reserved.

Leo Laporte Right.

Tom Merritt Are they – they planning on putting some “buzz” label in the reader software that overlaps with Gmail or whatever.

John C. Dvorak Maybe it has something to do with ringing the phone or shaking of the chatroom…

Tom Merritt The buzz tag just left, it just disappeared on its own.

Leo Laporte Hey, Mr. Google found you. How dare you!

Tom Merritt That was weird.

Leo Laporte How dare you create a label!

John C. Dvorak It’s the Google police! [Imitates siren]

Leo Laporte The folks who discovered this were the folks at Google Blogoscoped, which is an excellent blog about the Googlesphere. He says, looking up the word blog – buzz in Google, we get several definitions, I don’t know how that helps. What does it mean? Does anyone know why this could be?

Tom Merritt They better be careful how they use it, because CNET has a trademark on some uses.

Leo Laporte Really? Buzz Out Loud. The word buzz by itself?

Tom Merritt They got – Yahoo! had a daily Buzz Report.

Leo Laporte Oh yeah, you can’t do that.

Tom Merritt And CNET has a show called –

Leo Laporte Buzz Out Loud.

Tom Merritt – Buzz Report report, hosted by Molly Wood, weekly. It’s a video show, and so they had to stop it.

Leo Laporte Very interesting.

John C. Dvorak Maybe Yahoo! should get out of the house more; everybody knows that show existed.

Tom Merritt Maybe it was called Daily Buzz…

Patrick Norton All they had to do was Google search on it.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, seriously.

Leo Laporte But how – but I mean is it buzz like a generic word? How can you really own buzz?

Tom Merritt Yeah, I mean the actual – just the word buzz, sure yeah.

Leo Laporte People always ask me, and I’d like to answer this once it for all, if they can use “This Week in…” for their podcast; of course they can, because Mel Allen says it’s all right.

John C. Dvorak Mel Allen?

Leo Laporte With This Week in Baseball which pre-dated this show.

John C. Dvorak Oh Mel, oh Wow.

Leo Laporte Mel Allen – how about that?

Tom Merritt How about that?

John C. Dvorak Not quite.

Leo Laporte No, I’m working on it. I haven’t heard Mel in years; I think that’s pretty good considering I haven’t heard him in a long time.

Tom Merritt And you know who took over for Mel Allen on This Week in Baseball?

John C. Dvorak Here we go again.

Leo Laporte Buzz…

Tom Merritt Buzz Brainard.

Leo Laporte Oh there’s a tie-in.

John C. Dvorak A tie-in! Off the track once again ladies and gentlemen, sorry.

Leo Laporte You know this show was never on that track. Google says you can’t use IE6; they’re phasing it out for Google Apps, Docs, and Sites. So France, Germany and now Google say, IE6 is verboten.

Tom Merritt And

Leo Laporte Is there a website?

Tom Merritt Yeah, there’s a movement.

Leo Laporte Good. It’s about time we stopped IE6.

Tom Merritt Because really, IE6, what is the point of anyone using that?

Leo Laporte You know what, I would get almost everybody...

Patrick Norton Google stepping up and doing no evil. First they’re nuancing their relationship with China, now they’re dumping IE6, I think it’s all under the do no evil banner.

John C. Dvorak It’s all good.

Leo Laporte Who is it that’s saying Google is evil? Apple.

Tom Merritt Steve Jobs.

Leo Laporte Steve Jobs.

John C. Dvorak What did he say?

Patrick Norton He said the stuff in China was B.S.

Tom Merritt May not be direct quote but it was –

Leo Laporte All right.

Patrick Norton A very loose interpretation of a second hand article I read.

Leo Laporte This is that Wired story, we’re getting back to that one, it was so good we want to do it twice. It’s the burrito of stories. Jobs says, on Google “we did not enter the search business, they entered the phone business. Make no mistake they want to kill the iPhone; we will not let them.” Yeah!

Also, now Mac Rumours are saying ‘we heard the same story’ so we know it’s true that Wired reported and we heard some other things from this town hall that was – Steve hosted on Friday. Apple will deliver aggressive updates to iPhone ‘that Android Google won’t be able to keep up with’. Haha! iPad – iPad is up there with the iPhone and Mac as ‘the most important product Jobs has been a part of.’ Asked about the Lala acquisition, Apple says, they were ‘interested in bringing those people into the iTunes team.’ This is a Steve Ballmer quote if I ever heard one from Steve Jobs, ‘next iPhone coming is an A+ update.’

John C. Dvorak Is a what?

Leo Laporte A+ update. Is that a term?

Tom Merritt Not an A4 update?

Leo Laporte A+.

John C. Dvorak Is an A+ update?

Leo Laporte A+ update.

John C. Dvorak That Steve Ballmer said this?

Leo Laporte No, Jobs said that, but it’s the kind of thing Ballmer would say.

Patrick Norton It just sounds like Steve Ballmer.

John C. Dvorak What’s going to – well Ballmer’s got the Zune phone coming out, so that will save the company.

Leo Laporte There is a little rumor-idge that that’s going to be the case, somebody found some Zune phone-ish kind of code in the kit and so forth. but I think that’s always – that’s not a good basis for anything.

Tom Merritt I don’t think that means they are going to manufacture a device. It means they’re trying to work the Zune software into a phone system.

John C. Dvorak It’s going to be a big clunker.

Leo Laporte Exactly, what Paul Thurrott thought is it merely means that there will be Windows – that the Media Player in Windows Mobile going forward, at some point, will be the Zune software. And that’s –

Tom Merritt Yeah, that make sense.

Leo Laporte Yeah; Microsoft’s already said that, so there’s nothing new there. New iMacs for 2010 are going to ‘take Apple to the next level.’

Tom Merritt Really? Big news.

Leo Laporte ‘The next level.’

Tom Merritt I guess Jobs’ quote was actually ‘don’t be evil is load of crap.’

Patrick Norton The Wired article says, ‘I want to go back to that other question first and say one more thing, he says. This don’t be evil mantra: “It’s – ’ I can’t say it on a – bold stuff.

Leo Laporte Bullpucky.

Tom Merritt Well if you go down to the update at the very bottom of the story, there’s a person from the audience who disputes the BS quote and says, ‘all he said was “don’t be evil is load of crap”.’

Leo Laporte Well, that’s close enough.

Tom Merritt In some way he related don’t be evil to feces. We’re not sure exactly how at this point. Now we’re turning into CNN.

Leo Laporte To poop.

John C. Dvorak Off the track yet again.

Patrick Norton He wore a black turtleneck; Tom, do you think this is a significant extension of the Apple policy, how do you feel about that?

Leo Laporte About – this is from the Wired article, about Adobe, ‘they’re lazy. They have all this potential to do interesting things but Adobe just refuses to do it.’ This sounds to me exactly like Steve Jobs, I mean if it’s not, it’s exactly how he talks.

Patrick Norton I mean on one hand like, yeah it sounds like Steve firing up the troops to get them – to gird their lions and go into battle and take over the universe once again but the reality is, is Flash has been getting – it’s basically been a heavier and heavier load on the system. They’ve had the opportunity to offload a lot of the CPU processing to graphics for quite some time now and they’re just now getting around to it

Leo Laporte I have to say, in some ways I’m really encouraged to hear Steve talking like this. Clearly, he was really pumped up from a successful – what he considered – deemed a successful launch on Wednesday, obviously he wasn’t reading the blogs. And felt good, was in fine fettle, and it sounded like he just really kind of – he was in a good mood. This is Steve – this is how Steve talks when he’s in a good mode.

Tom Merritt He’s feeling good again. On top of the world.

Leo Laporte Yeah. He’s feeling his oats.

Patrick Norton Yeah. I mean he laid down a gauntlet in the iPad. I mean he basically – we were talking about this last week, he laid down a gauntlet – or earlier this week, he basically said, ‘look, we’re the biggest mobile device manufacturer in the world, go suck it Nokia. Look at the amount of money we made in Q4, we’re doing great.’ I mean he threw down against the entire mobile industry right there.

Leo Laporte Right. He did it with some suspicious numbers, but he did it. But – good for him, good for him. Folks, we’re out of time because it’s East Meets West in about four minutes with Roger and Tom, that’s next in the live Those of you who are listening to the podcast we thank you for being here, we really appreciate it. Tom Merritt you will find on CNET all the time, he’s at Buzz Out Loud, and what’s the best place to find a Tom Merritt these days?

Tom Merritt If you go to you can find all the stuff that I do.

Leo Laporte You do a lot of other stuff besides Sword and Laser, East Meets West.

Tom Merritt Yeah I do FourCast, prediction FourCast.

Leo Laporte I love FourCast, wasn’t Colleen just on that?

Tom Merritt Yeah, yeah. First Colleen and Molly Wood episode will be this Thursday.

Leo Laporte Wow! The first of many?

Tom Merritt First of three; first of three. We do three in a row with our guests now.

Leo Laporte You do three episodes?

John C. Dvorak Cool.

Tom Merritt We do three episodes with our guests now; we changed it since we had you on. And we kind of spread it out over three episodes now.

Leo Laporte I was only on one.

Tom Merritt You were on one super size episode.

Leo Laporte Oh I see, you’ve made it smaller.

Tom Merritt So pretty much all we’re doing is taking those episodes and chopping them into three.

Leo Laporte Ah, I see. Same episode – in other words I talked the same amount.

Tom Merritt Same type of episode.

Leo Laporte Okay.

Tom Merritt Yeah exactly.

Leo Laporte That’s a fun –

Tom Merritt

Leo Laporte, but it’s all at Patrick Norton is at; that‘s where his fabulous…

Patrick Norton

Leo Laporte Oh sorry.

Patrick Norton Are we on too? works too.

Leo Laporte Basically you could find them anywhere. With Veronica Belmont also former Buzz Out Louder.

Patrick Norton That’s right.

Leo Laporte Buzz has really influenced us all. Patrick anything else you would like to plug?

Patrick Norton; it’s the hi-def show I do with Robert Heron who is fantastic.

Leo Laporte With little Bobby Heron.

Patrick Norton Little Bobby Heron, all grown up.

Leo Laporte John C. Dvorak’s at and CrankyGeeks, the Tech Geek Crunch, whatever its name is, Crunch Tech Geek Grouch.

John C. Dvorak Tech Grouch.

Leo Laporte Tech Grouch.

John C. Dvorak But that’s not really me, and we got a new guy Steve, the tech hippy.

Leo Laporte Really?

John C. Dvorak Yeah.

Leo Laporte Where can I find that?

John C. Dvorak You’ll probably hear about it next week.

Leo Laporte I want to see that.

John C. Dvorak It’s funn; there’s a long story behind it. But anyway the – you can check, but people are complaining about me not plugging anymore, as though is was like…

Leo Laporte Yeah because that’s the drinking game; they’re not getting loaded like they used to.

John C. Dvorak I guess. So – and also that No Agenda show; help us out. And you’re showing what?

Leo Laporte I don’t know, that’s your – I guess that’s an ad, Apolo Ohno.

John C. Dvorak That’s the Tech Grouch.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Tom Merritt Tech Grouch is skating?

John C. Dvorak Well queue ‘em up next time. I don’t know what this is.

Leo Laporte This is some crap mevio put on the front of it.

John C. Dvorak It’s a pre-roll, everything is pre-rolled in this world nowadays. Not much I can do about it. There I am. Or, I’m sorry, there he is.

Patrick Norton That’s quite a beard John.

Leo Laporte You don’t really even need to – you don’t even really need to put the audio on.

Tom Merritt He gets more lumberjack-y, every time I see him.

John C. Dvorak It’s the exact same outfit.

[Audio clip from the Tech Grouch]

Leo Laporte All right, there you go, that’s, but just go to; you’ll find everything you ever could want.

John C. Dvorak It’s all there. Apple II Forever by the way.

Leo Laporte I love the poster – for those watching the video, actually for those not watching the video, John has a poster behind him from an Apple event that was in 1985, I think, as I remember…

John C. Dvorak ’84.

Leo Laporte ’84, and it was at Moscone Center, it was right after the release of the Macintosh and Apple was trying to reassure the Apple II Faithful that they were not abandoning the platform, so they had an event called Apple II Forever.

John C. Dvorak That’s where they rolled out the IIc.

Leo Laporte IIc, and shortly thereafter they killed the entire product.

John C. Dvorak That was the end of it.

Leo Laporte It’s the shortest forever in recorded history.

Patrick Norton Well the Apple II went on forever, they just did it without the help of Apple.

Leo Laporte Apple wasn’t there for that one. That’s a nice poster, did you get that at the event?

John C. Dvorak Yeah, I did as a matter of fact, and I don’t think there’s many of these left and I’m going to sell it.

Leo Laporte It’s very cool. I like it.

Patrick Norton Where will you sell it, eBay or

John C. Dvorak What, you want to buy it? You’re interested?

Patrick Norton No. not even a little bit.

Leo Laporte It would go nicely with my NeXT poster.

John C. Dvorak It’s big, by the way, this thing is not small. It’s a huge poster.

Leo Laporte You’re starting to sound like the knife guy on the QVC.

John C. Dvorak It’s a beauty.

Leo Laporte And it’s big.

John C. Dvorak It’s in good condition, and also the inks have not faded.

Leo Laporte No they haven’t. I’ll vouch for that.

John C. Dvorak Look at the size of this thing.

Leo Laporte It’s massive.

John C. Dvorak It’s monstrous, ladies and gentlemen.

Leo Laporte And there’s a guy holding a IIc.

Tom Merritt How many left?

Leo Laporte How many left at that price?

John C. Dvorak This is it, this is the last one.

Leo Laporte Last one at that price, better act fast. You could find TWiT at, but I guess you probably know that, it’s kind of redundant; just Google TWiT. We’re also doing video now on YouTube; and on the Roku Box and all those other great places, you know, so you can watch the show. But it’s good fun to watch it live; we do that every Sunday afternoon at 3:00 P.M. Pacific, 6:00 P.M. Eastern on I’m Leo Laporte, thanks for joining us. Another TWiT is in the can.


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