TWiT 234/Transcript

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Episode 234


This transcript is provided by our friends at Pods in Print

Leo Laporte Audio bandwidth for this WEEK in TECH is provided by AOL Music and, where you can get free MP3s, exclusive interviews and more. Video bandwidth for TWiT is provided by Cachefly at

This is TWiT, this WEEK in TECH, episode 234 for February 8, 2010: We are All Care Bears Now.

This WEEK in TECH is brought to you by the new Carbonite Pro, it’s simple, secure and affordable online backup for your small business. For a free trial and to learn more, visit; and by, the fast and easy way to publish a high quality website or blog, for a free trial and 10% off your new account, go to; and by GoToMeeting. Business travel can kill your company’s profits, so do more, save more and travel less with GoToMeeting; for your free 30-day trial, visit

This is TWiT, this WEEK in TECHNOLOGY, the show that covers the latest tech news in an iconoclastic, bizarre and sometimes fragmented way, and mostly that’s my fault, not the fault of the panelists, we’ve got a great panel today, even though it’s Super Sunday, joining us right now from New York, Mr. Baratunde Thurston, hey Baratunde?

Baratunde Thurston Brooklyn, Brooklyn.

Leo Laporte Oh that’s not New York?

Baratunde Thurston It’s Brooklyn, it’s part of New York but it’s Brooklyn. But I’m happy to be here, I’m not trying to waste a whole bunch of time – anyway, thanks for having me back.

Leo Laporte From the borough of Brooklyn, ladies and gentlemen, Baratunde Thurston.

Baratunde Thurston Planet technically but who’s counting? Planet of Brooklyn.

Leo Laporte The Planet, it’s own Planet.

Baratunde Thurston Yes.

Leo Laporte All right. Well I’m glad we got that straight, because I’d hate to have that – get that wrong.

Baratunde Thurston I’m here to educate.

Leo Laporte Also here for the first time. I’m really glad to have her, Kara Swisher.

Kara Swisher Hi.

Leo Laporte Of All Things Digital,, a BoomTown columnist and one of the most astute observers of technology out there. So good to have you finally Kara.

Kara Swisher Yeah, thanks for having me, I’m sorry I haven’t been on.

Leo Laporte We were trying and trying, but that’s fine.

Kara Swisher Well, you know I’ve got dogs and children so that’s sort of my Sunday.

Leo Laporte Yeah I don’t blame you.

Kara Swisher Yeah.

Leo Laporte In fact, you’re probably grateful to get away from them.

Kara Swisher Indeed I’m thrilled to be here.

Leo Laporte Also here, speaking of dogs and children, dogs and Englishmen, Wil Harris. What is it they say?

Kara Swisher Mad dogs, mad dogs.

Leo Laporte Mad dogs and Englishmen. Wil Harris from ChannelFlip.

Wil Harris I don’t have dogs or children, thankfully.

Leo Laporte This is a show, we had to –

Kara Swisher You can have one of my mine.

Leo Laporte How old are your kids Kara?

Kara Swisher Four and seven.

Leo Laporte Oh they’re little.

Kara Swisher And one is actually here with – and two dogs too. So yes they’re little.

Leo Laporte You know, we have a teenagers now and we avoided the dogs until we got the kids to stop peeing on the furniture. I figured once they –

Kara Swisher I cage-trained my children.

Leo Laporte Oh very smart, do you use a newspaper trick?

Kara Swisher No, cage training [ph] works (03:18).

Leo Laporte Just cage? Okay.

Baratunde Thurston A cop is going to show up at your homes.

Leo Laporte Shaking his head.

Baratunde Thurston In about five minutes.

Kara Swisher If they were that good that would be nice.

Leo Laporte This panel is unique because we had to find a panel that cared not a whit about – there’s some big game going on, I don’t know in New Orleans, it’s in New Orleans, right? No, it’s in Miami, it’s with New Orleans.

Kara Swisher No idea. We have no idea.

Leo Laporte It’s the Baltimore Colts – no wait a minute – the Indian…

Baratunde Thurston Indianapolis.

Leo Laporte People are going crazy...

Baratunde Thurston You’re such a geek, Leo, that’s [ph] awful (03:50).

Leo Laporte People are going crazy right now.

Baratunde Thurston The Baltimore Rabbits versus the…

Leo Laporte Yeah. It’s Johnny Unitas, and his Baltimore Colts against the New Orleans Saints, [ph] who that (04:02) that’s all I know.

Kara Swisher I was saying earlier there’s a Kardashian involved, that’s all I know.

Leo Laporte There’s a Kard…

Baratunde Thurston I would actually love the Super Bowl if it were just all the football scenes from Friday Night Lights strung together.

Leo Laporte Now that’s –

Kara Swisher Oh, that’d be good.

Baratunde Thurston Victory for the [ph] bill and (04:15) Panthers, that’s be a great game to watch.

Kara Swisher Yeah.

Leo Laporte See I think even you Wil would appreciate American football if you were lived in Texas and you saw Texas high school football.

Wil Harris I think though probably it has a very unique part in your culture, which nobody outside of American can quite appreciate.

Leo Laporte Oh, come on.

Wil Harris Apart from maybe – maybe Britain and cricket, maybe it’s kind of the same thing, nobody in America cares about cricket, right?

Leo Laporte Or soccer hooligans, didn’t Britain event soccer hooliganism?

Wil Harris Well that’s getting a little bit derogatory now.

Kara Swisher But they did perfect it.

Leo Laporte There you go. ‘Perfect it’ is the word.

Baratunde Thurston You meant ‘hooligan’ in a good way.

Leo Laporte In a good – what’s wrong with that, yeah. So Baratunde does have to go before the game begins.

Kara Swisher Okay.

Leo Laporte But for an odd reason.

Baratunde Thurston I’ll be live Twitting this cultural event – I’d like to take a moment so everybody comes together and mess with them – so I don’t know much about football, I picked Alabama in this bowl game because I just like the state of Alabama over Texas, had nothing to do with the players or the stats. So I’ll be Twitting about the commercials in about a very uninformed sports analysis coming from the top of my head, it’ll be fun.

Leo Laporte Actually, I think this is – this was the idea of [ph] Louie Salavaro (05:26) who runs – is my engineer for the radio show, he said, this is upside down TiVo day – is what this is. This is the day you DVR the games, so you can skip the programming, and go right to the commercials.

Kara Swisher It’s true. They’re good commercials. They’re up on all the websites, they have them all up, all the commercials.

Baratunde Thurston I haven’t looked at them yet, [ph] that (05:43) was going to be a surprise.

Leo Laporte Oh, they’re not up yet, are they?

Kara Swisher Are you – some of them are I think, they’re previewing some of them on Yahoo! Yahoo! usually has the best collection of them, typically. But they’re all over the place.

Leo Laporte So Yahoo! does it, YouTube does it, Hulu does it, I know.

Kara Swisher Yeah, they all do it.

Leo Laporte It’s funny, don’t you remember way back when that – in fact this was well before YouTube, there was a site and I can’t remember the name of the site, that’s - just was ads.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah, I know exactly what you’re talking about, AdCritic maybe?

Leo Laporte AdCritic. Thank you. It’s been driving me crazy all day. And then this is the funniest thing, this is what really dates it, the advertisers said you have to pull the ads down. ‘What are you doing?’

Baratunde Thurston ‘We don’t want people to see the ads.’ Leo Laporte ‘Those are our ads.’

Kara Swisher I think they were mocking, no – I think they were mocking them though, more than anything.

Leo Laporte They allowed – well originally AdCritic was for ad direct – agencies and artistic directors to say what’s wrong with this ad or so forth but most of the time that I went there, I just wanted to watch the ad, I wasn’t reading the critique.

Kara Swisher Right, right.

Leo Laporte And how crazy is that for – Budweiser to say, ‘well, whatever you do, we have the copyright to the Bud ad, you may not air it.’ In an unapproved forum –

Baratunde Thurston [ph] People (06:48) might accidentally buy some Budweiser as a result.

Leo Laporte Yeah. That would be an accident.

Wil Harris You say it sounds crazy, Leo – but how many times do we see the exact same thing or at least a very similar thing these days. Something that’s designed to be out there and enjoyed by everybody who has [indiscernible] (07:20). Are you not enjoying it in the exact way like kind of [ph] did you enjoy (07:07) it? So just ditch it?

Leo Laporte Hulu, NBC and FOX. I mean, it’s a – but the reason I bring it up is because it just shows you that these – what is now in 10 years, in hind sight, 10 years later obviously foolish persists.

Kara Swisher Well, put them back. I think they want to just – they sometimes release someone they want to. You know, like the Susan Boyle stuff was interesting, it kept coming down and being pulled off and coming down. I don’t think they have a lot of control over it, but they’re certainly trying to control it and when they want to. Like the Conan stuff has been interesting, all this debate over whether they own – whether they can put up these Conan thing so we are sort of insulting NBC or not.

Leo Laporte Is there a fair use argument that it’s somehow editorial?

Kara Swisher No, probably not. I mean, just tiny clips of – people are putting up the whole four or five-minute things. So no, not four or five minutes probably one line would be all right, but not four or five minutes, that’s kind of crossing the line.

Leo Laporte And yes, let’s face it. Saturday Night Live was dying on the vine until people started putting up…….

Kara Swisher Clips of it.

Leo Laporte …. Clips of it on YouTube, and of course immediately NBC said, “Oh, you can’t do that”. But it’s good for them.

Kara Swisher Well, some of it is. I think there are – other media companies probably going to try to pull back fair use now. It’s a debate’s going on between News Corp. which owns our site actually. We don’t – I don’t agree with [ph] them. They’re just (08:25) I think they are fighting – and they try to fight and restrict fair use even more, in their fight with all the websites.

Leo Laporte Murdoch wants to put some pay wall.

Kara Swisher They want to actually – they want to do that, fine. They can do whatever they want in that, but to restrict fair use thing, that means, going to Washington and paying for a lobbyist. And Google will have their own group of lobbyists doing the same thing. And that should be an interesting fight this year, what’s going to happen to fair use and things like that.

Wil Harris The lobbyist off.

Leo Laporte Murdoch claims that Google is sucking the life blood out of the journalism.

Kara Swisher Yes, he does.

Leo Laporte You guys are free – everybody always accuses Google of free writing.

Wil Harris It takes one to know one. I have to say this – one of the [ph] mags (09:05) I read in the UK is a mag called broadcast which is for the kind of TV industry. If you get a broadcast, any of the top stories, it’s behind a pay wall which is like a few hundred [ph] quid (09:17) a year. If you go to Google and you type the headline of the story that you want, you can just read it all on Google.

Kara Swisher Yes. I mean, the interesting, this year is going to be to the big year of content, sort of the idea how much content is worth and what they can keep back and what’s available and how that impacts them. I think there will be more and more pay walls. They are going to try to it, I mean, and then we’ll see what happens.

Leo Laporte Does the iPad change any of these?

Kara Swisher I think so, for me.

Wil Harris I think, kind of the sad thing possibly or you know at least the kind of [ph] insufferable (09:45) thing was that all these old media companies that have had the head in the sand and going, “Oh, you know the web is killing our business and we’ve got to find a way to make you pay everything.” But actually if all these kind of this stuff vantage those subscriptions and the Kindle and the iPad kind of takes effect. But actually they’ll [indiscernible] (10:02) 10 years of paying to get to a point where they are just selling the same thing, which is 50p for a newspaper everyday, except this one’s on you iPad rather than on paper.

Leo Laporte But that’s – but that’s how……………

Wil Harris [Indiscernible] insufferable is (10:12) if they have actually been right in the past decades.

Leo Laporte That’s how these companies wanted because that’s been their business model from time immemorial, right?

Kara Swisher Sure. Well, no. They – of course they like the Internet to go away, I think that’s really the first choice.

Leo Laporte Okay.

Kara Swisher I remember the first decline, and I think it’s in the 2000 when they had the .com bomb and they all were like, “Oh, thank goodness, [ph] careers (10:31) over”. I was like get ready, my friend. I mean, it was really – that was the sort of attitude like, phewww…we missed that.

Leo Laporte That was close.

Kara Swisher Yes, that was close. And I was like, get ready to really die now. But I think they would like it to go different, but they would like to have some mode of control over it. They are not used to that in the way they’ve set up their businesses. And so what’ll be interesting to see is what happens when they – with this iPad I think Steve Jobs who has sort of an enemy of the music industry in a lot of ways because the pricing fights he’s had with them is now the savior of the print industry or the book industry or whatever, because, McMillan is pointing to the iPad for fighting Amazon in the [ph] 9.99 (11:08) book price. So it should be – it’s interesting, I mean, none of – unfortunately for the media industry, none of these people are their friends. I mean, either Amazon or iPad or Apple because they are going to control these distribution devices.

Leo Laporte But they do prefer the agency model that Apple uses where they set the price, Apple takes 30% of whatever that price is to Amazon’s model which basically says Amazon sets the price, tells you how much you’re going to get, and take it or leave it.

Kara Swisher Right, but we call it for now, I mean, what if everyone’s using an iPad, what could they do then? I mean, that’s the thing as they are just trading one potential problem for another and maybe because if they look at what happened in the music industry. The music industry has been fighting Apple to raise from $0.99 to $1.29. Now they eventually did it, but there wasn’t a lot of options in paid music.

Leo Laporte And they had to make a concession which is removing DRM.

Kara Swisher Right, exactly. So….

Leo Laporte A huge concession.

Kara Swisher So, if this thing catches on, and we will see if it does, hopefully there will be lots of these which should be great. But if this thing catches on and they have most of it in New York Times for example comes over, or the Wall Street Journal or whoever they are talking to, comes over these things they are in a de-leveraged position I would say.

Leo Laporte I read a great blog from [ph] Dave Macedo (12:19), who wrote fantastic this week.

Kara Swisher Yeah, [ph] Dave (12:20) yeah.

Leo Laporte On how the sort of the future of all these companies will be, who can build the biggest most ubiquitous micro payment system, that Google, sorry, that Apple is already a long way there with their [indiscernible] (12:33), what is that 18 million people who have credit cards registered in iTunes, they can aggregate their purchase together, they will charge you once every few days so that’s they pay less money and that the big competitor that won’t be Amazon in fact, but will actually going to be Facebook in Facebook’s alleged micro payment platform.

Kara Swisher Right, well they have a lot of alleged everything.

Unknown Speaker (12:54) You can always buy fake flowers and gifts, the Facebook gift economy and a lot of that...

Leo Laporte They already buy real stuff at Facebook.

Unknown Speaker (12:59) …easy for them to get money, yeah.

Leo Laporte Oh man I wish I were in the business of selling bits for real money, I mean boy…

Kara Swisher They make a lot of money, don’t laugh at that.

Unknown Speaker (13:05) High margin.

Leo Laporte High margin. They also make anything…

Kara Swisher Don’t think they are inane. I mean I got like a cupcake, it did, I was like fruit, screw that, I am going go for…

Leo Laporte But I gave you a cupcake.

Kara Swisher Whatever, they make a lot more money than you think they do.

Leo Laporte Oh, of course they do.

Kara Swisher [ph] idiotic person (13:22)

Leo Laporte Well, you know who makes money, it’s Mark Pincus of Zynga.

Kara Swisher Yeah.

Leo Laporte Makes hundreds of millions of dollars a year selling virtual farm implements.

Kara Swisher And chips and whatever, he is a bunch of games, but I mean I think he probably makes more money in the poker area, but yes, the farm, whatever the farm.

Leo Laporte Hey don’t…

Unknown Speaker (13:36) [indiscernible] (13:36) because of it.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (13:40) You just don’t know how to click the [ph] weights (13:41) hunger.

Leo Laporte We’ve have had our Farmville moment on this show.

Kara Swisher Yeah.

Leo Laporte I give up.

Kara Swisher The funniest [ph] Farm (13:50) thing is the Jason Calacanis fraud or whatever, I did an interview with Jason, which…

Leo Laporte You didn’t fall for that, right?

Kara Swisher No I did not.

Leo Laporte Of course you are not.

Kara Swisher Really it would weight 112 pounds and cost $4 million.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I was stunned that anybody fell for that and I was surprised that how much opprobrium was heaped on Jason for doing it when it was obviously a joke. What was your opinion on that Kara?

Kara Swisher I did an interview with him and I agree I thought it was so obvious that it was a joke and then if you read them altogether I mean it was ridiculous, he was putting solar panels on it. He was having…

Leo Laporte Three cameras.

Kara Swisher And the farm animals you could throw [ph] them from iPads (14:22).

Leo Laporte That’s the feature I want though.

Kara Swisher I know, but they are like oh take my cow.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Kara Swisher I mean what is – of course it was Jason, please let’s just start with…let’s start with it was Jason.

Leo Laporte And yet CNN and others ran it as if they were…

Kara Swisher Yes, the Wall Street Journal did too.

Leo Laporte Did the Journal?

Kara Swisher Indeed.

Leo Laporte Oops!

Unknown Speaker (14:40) Oops!

Kara Swisher You know it was, it’s just, they should have checked, they should have called, and in fact none of them called him, which was amazing. Or Apple I guess and they may have tried, but…

Leo Laporte Well, you are not going to call Apple but if you call Jason the first thing he would say…

Kara Swisher Yeah, I call Apple, I call Apple, they don’t answer the phone.

Unknown Speaker (14:55) Who answers the phone at Apple, someone who is like I am sorry you used the Google phone to call me, we can’t talk to you. Like that.

Unknown Speaker (14:59) [indiscernible] (14:59) companies.

Leo Laporte You may not say the word, the A word or the G word or the M word when you are speaking to them.

Unknown Speaker (15:06) You can’t even use the letter G in combination with letter O, if you are doing any business with Apple.

Leo Laporte I do want to talk about this because there is a shooting war that has just erupted between Apple, Google and Adobe.

Unknown Speaker (15:15) Yeah another one.

Leo Laporte This is nuclear annihilation here. We went to the nuclear option and it’s only going to get worse. I want to talk about that in a second. We have got three great panelists here on Super Bowl Sunday, we are going to move fast today because Baratunde has got to live twit the ballgame. Baratunde Thurston, it’s great to have you, Kara Swisher from and of course from My good buddy Wil Harris, but today’s show and by the way the smoking light is on, smoke them if you got them. The – I have to tell the panelists that so they know they can light up.

We actually had a guy I won’t name names but a well known industry maven who started rolling a joint during…

Kara Swisher You know well it’s not 4:20 yet.

Leo Laporte And he is to…

Unknown Speaker (16:01) What country was he in when he was doing that?

Leo Laporte He was in – well you know he is in California which is in fact the nation where marijuana is virtually legal.

Unknown Speaker (16:11) Yeah.

Leo Laporte It’s only a matter of time, I suspect this November.

Kara Swisher We don’t know what you are talking about, who are you talking about?

Leo Laporte What?

Kara Swisher What?

Leo Laporte What? When I was in China over the summer and I asked our guide tell me about drug use here, he said what are you talking about. I said – we were walking by a head shop that had bongs, I am not kidding, in the window, and I said well those things, as we use to smoke marijuana, she said I don’t know what that is. I said okay fine.

Kara Swisher You got to love the Chinese.

Leo Laporte Yeah, they – that’s exactly – that’s what they do, when you say internet censorship, says no, no I don’t know what you are talking about.

Unknown Speaker (16:47) Terrific, terrific.

Kara Swisher Yeah. Someone I know was in a meeting in one of the big search committees with the Chinese officials and they said you know when you call up Tiananmen Square or Tibet, it never – no pictures came up and the guests, the official there was like oh that’s the choice of the search companies. They wanted that. And he was like, what?

Leo Laporte “They feel it’s best not to offend our cultural sensibilities.”

Kara Swisher Yeah, they have like something called three T’s and an S, it’s Tibet, Taiwan, Tiananmen and [ph] son gong (17:16).

Leo Laporte [ph] son gong (17:17).

Kara Swisher [ph] son gong (17:18). Yep, and so.

Leo Laporte Yeah, don’t talk about that. In fact the show just got banned in China. Thank you very much. That’s okay because they’re not interested in Carbonite Pro, our sponsor of the hour, Carbonite Pro, brand new by the way from the folks at Carbonite. You’ve heard me talk for years about Carbonite online backup, a great system for backing up your data on your computer, but many people have asked me, “well what do I do in a business? I have multiple computers.” In fact I know people who have individual Carbonite accounts for each computer. There’s a better way now., the same great Carbonite online backup for PC or Mac, the service developed to backup your stuff automatically to the internet, more than 100,000 people use it to backup computers in their offices already and we thought maybe we should, I didn’t tell about the Pro version, just came out,, you could try it free for 30 days and by the way we always do this with our sponsors, we really want them to give you the free trial, to make sure this is right for you and I think anybody who’s got a product that they’re willing to standby is going to do that and that’s what’s great about it, you can try it, you can see if it works for you. I can tell you, you’re going to love it, [ph] aes (18:21) 256 bit encryption before the file even leaves your computer, you choose the key so only you can unlock it, a 128 bit SSL while it’s being transmitted, it’s kind of the belt and suspenders technology there and prices for businesses with many computers as low as $10 a month.

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Kara Swisher, Wil Harris, Baratunde Thurston we’re talking about the latest tech world stories, Google supposedly – we’ll be watching tonight on the Super Bowl’s got a third quarter ad, speaking of credulous journalists, John Battelle on his Searchblog posted a ad from YouTube, a Google ad that was, I mean something that’s never going to run on the Super Bowl – it was an ad for France for one thing. Have you seen it?

Kara Swisher Well, you know, they had a bunch of ads.

Baratunde Thurston No, it sounds hilarious.

Leo Laporte Well, that is the thing, these were ads, they ran on Hulu like a year and a half ago.

Kara Swisher Yeah, we put them up, [ph] I don’t (19:54) November. It wasn’t a year ago. They did a bunch for Chrome and then a bunch for Search. They had a whole bunch….

Leo Laporte These are Search ads, exactly.

Kara Swisher Yeah, [ph] You’d keep (20:03) click it and they tell a story of romance or whatever.

Leo Laporte Yeah, they were French romance, which, you know, is going to go over well with those beefeaters who watch the Super Bowl.

Baratunde Thurston The best one was the Tiger Woods one and it shows kind of what tigers should be search – it shows the evolution of his downfall through Search.

Leo Laporte You’re kidding.

Baratunde Thurston

[ph] Let’s (20:20) how do you repair the grill on your SUV?

Wil Harris Yeah, [ph] it’s hardly (20:24) the front page of Gawker, it’s really funny.

Kara Swisher [ph] I will (20:29).

Leo Laporte Did The Onion do that?

Baratunde Thurston No, no The Onion did not do that.

Leo Laporte It sounds like an Onion ad. Well in any event, Engadget and a number of other blogs picked up John Battelle’s posting, “oh this will be the third quarter,” of course not, this is an old ad, the best Google commercial you’re never going to see; this is from Gawker.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah, it’s awesome.

Leo Laporte Slate V, oh this is not an official one, it takes off on the ads that Google did run – the official ads that Google did run.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah, it’s like a [ph] great parody (20:58).

Kara Swisher Yeah.

Leo Laporte Oh, we got to watch it, I am sorry I have to. This is from Slate. I’ll have to talk you through it because it’s all music, “how to hide facial lacerations” is the search, Band-Aid. Escalade grill work, oh this is mean. Oh, this is so mean, how to get bloodstains out of clothing, out of a green jacket, see this is the style though of the ad, oh dear.

Kara Swisher Oh dear.

Leo Laporte Now he’s searching for the girlfriend, Derek Jeter, oh, painful. Derek Jeter, oh no, okay I’m stopping right there. This is – this has gone too far.

Baratunde Thurston The title of the video is called, “Is Tiger feeling lucky today?

Leo Laporte I’m feeling lucky, oh my goodness.

Kara Swisher Zales is where he’s supposed to get his wife a diamond.

Leo Laporte How much for a Zales’ diamond ring? How much for the entire Zales’ company? He’s getting Mark Sanford’s apology. That’s – that’s funny.

Kara Swisher Yeah, it didn’t work. If you see her, she is all over the weBaratunde Thurstonand everywhere with her new book.

Leo Laporte Oh, really? The tell all?

Kara Swisher Yes, indeed, Jenny, yeah.

Leo Laporte Not the girlfriend?

Baratunde Thurston Is Jenny from the block?

Kara Swisher No, the wife, the wife, the wife.

Leo Laporte Really?

Kara Swisher Mrs. Stanford (sic) [Sanford] (22:19). Yeah. She’s a quite a strong survivor.

Leo Laporte Oh, Mrs. Sanford.

Kara Swisher Mrs. Sanford, yeah.

Leo Laporte Not Tiger’s wife.

Kara Swisher No, no, apparently she’s like back in Brazil [ph] I read (22:27).

Leo Laporte Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s not ‘This Week in Affairs’, but sometimes we just get sucked into these things.

Kara Swisher Anytime, I love to talk [ph] about that (22:32).

Leo Laporte That would be a good show.

Kara Swisher Well invite me on – I read everything.

Leo Laporte You know all the dish?

Kara Swisher You know [ph] Walt Moss, big (22:40) and I are huge celebrity gossip site fans, we’re just crazy about them I have to say. It’s our share – one of our many things in common.

Leo Laporte Now I find that fascinating somehow.

Kara Swisher And like I’m Superficial. That’s our favourite one.

Leo Laporte But you got a great scoop, you got a great...

Wil Harris Superficial is better than Perez, right?

Leo Laporte I’m Superficial?

Kara Swisher Oh, totally. Perez is an idiot. Oh, please. Sorry Perez, but you are. But, Superficial, the guy who writes it, I'm trying to meet him. He’s hysterically funny writer, and he – he’s hysterically funny and there’s bikini shots all day long so. Pretty much all it takes for me, so.

Leo Laporte I like the title. I’m – The Superficial – Because You’re Ugly. Is that it?

Kara Swisher Yeah, exactly. Oh, bikini shot, yeah.

Leo Laporte Oh, Anne Hathaway reveals all.

Kara Swisher They’re funny but I'm reading it for the text. Let me just [ph] start you off (23:23).

Leo Laporte Of course you are, of course you are.

Kara Swisher It’s not the bikini shots.

Leo Laporte No, no, of course.

Baratunde Thurston It’s the articles.

Leo Laporte It’s the articles.

Kara Swisher It really is.

Leo Laporte That's why I’m looking forward to the Kindle version of Playboy magazine because it just gets all that...

Kara Swisher [ph] Is anyone (23:38)?

Wil Harris Yeah, the black and white renditions will be spot on.

B [ph] It’s all the sixteen scales (23:45) of grey.

Wil Harris It’s even more artistic in black and white.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah, it’s true art.

Leo Laporte Why even put the pictures in?

Kara Swisher And we’ve to generate it, just ’cause [ph] it’s May (23:50). Sorry, let’s move on...

Leo Laporte No, Kara, i’m going to thank you because ...

Kara Swisher I can [ph] go way low so (23:55).

Leo Laporte ...if it weren’t for you, I would never have found out about I’m Superficial.

Kara Swisher Yeah.

Baratunde Thurston Here a segue from Playboy on Kindle back to Apple and Google’s fight...

Leo Laporte Thank you. Thank you.

Baratunde Thurston ...over this application for approval. So, for those who don’t know, there is a guy who has – I don’t remember the name of his [ph] game (24:13).

Leo Laporte It’s an SAT – it’s an SAT flash card.

Baratunde Thurston Flash of genius, yes, flash card.

Leo Laporte Yeah, it’s a flash card program.

Baratunde Thurston To help you prepare for studies and it did really well in an Android developer challenge, so he wanted to list that in the meta information about the app as far as, with some marketing, to say “hey, it did really well over here, so you should trust this app more than apps that didn’t do really well over there.”

Leo Laporte May I do a dramatic reading?

Baratunde Thurston Please, Apple kindly responded as follows.

Leo Laporte Yes, I’d like to do a dramatic reading of the Apple response. “During our review of your application, we found that your application contains inappropriate or irrelevant program information in the Application Description and/or Release Notes section. While we hasten to say your application has not been...” – actually, you know, I’m not reading it right, it should be more like...

Kara Swisher You’re reading like masterpiece standard but go right ahead.

Leo Laporte “What we would like to say that your application has not been rejected.”

Kara Swisher That’s better.

Leo Laporte “It would be appropriate to remove the words ‘finalist in Google’s Android developers challenge’ from the application description. Please log into iTunes Connect to make appropriate changes to avoid an interruption in the availability of your game.” That is like heavy-handed.

Baratunde Thurston [ph] It remains (25:26) to be interrupted...

Leo Laporte We would hate for that.

Baratunde Thurston So first of all, screw you Apple, very loudly and with a [ph] hash tag (25:33).

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Baratunde Thurston Second of all, this capricious, like inconsistent process it’s so opaque, it doesn’t scale and ultimately it hurts the world of ideas and it hurts innovation ’cause you’re block – it’s down to subjective things about fonts and specific words and...

Leo Laporte They blocked applications for an ugly icon – ’cause the icon was ugly.

Kara Swisher Thats normal for Apple. I’m sorry, I mean he’s obsessed with fonts and look. I mean, unfortunately, it is his world and you just live in it, sort of thing.

Leo Laporte Come on. Now I have to say...

Kara Swisher You may not like it but that’s the way it is. I mean...

Leo Laporte Well, this one is not because this one is clearly a response to Google which responded to Apple. So I think this started two days after the iPad announcement. When Steve Jobs held an All-Hands meeting and said, Google slogan “We’re not evil” is bull. I mean you can’t get – this is aggressive – he also said, by the way, Adobes are lazy and stupid...

Baratunde Thurston This means war.

Leo Laporte Yeah, it’s a declaration of war. So what does Google do? Google immediately – they were holding off on multitouch in the Nexus One – pushes out an uptake within days to the Nexus One that puts multitouch back into it, saying okay, you know, we were going to be nice, we weren’t going to challenge your patent, go ahead Apple, sue me.

So I think that this Apple Android thing is completely a response back. We’re in a shooting war, don’t you think?

Baratunde Thurston [ph] It (26:54) absolutely...

Kara Swisher Yeah, I think – I mean – go ahead, you go ahead

Baratunde Thurston So it’s fun to watch and I think what’s interesting [ph] draw (27:01) Jonathan Zittrain wrote this great book, ‘The Future of the Internet--And How to Stop It’, where he talked about the risk of tether devices and even market places that are tied to single companies that can influence the types of ideas and applications we have access to. It’s a great read. I don’t get any percentage for saying that. It’s just a good thoughtful book. I think what’s interesting here is Apple has such control, they’ve being super successful, they’re really pretty and we’ve talked about this before. Oppression is often beautiful and very aesthetically pleasing but it is a form of – a mild form of injustice and oppression and what I am hoping is A more competition from Google is better for us, right, it’s going to force Apple to do more but even this whole concept of a gated community of apps that requires ultimately a person to sit behind a desk like an old school operator with cables to connect point A to point B is foolish. It’s 2010, we’re in the 21st century for goodness sake. There are billions of web pages and billions of apps to follow and that just doesn’t – it’s not going to fly. So what it’s forcing developers to do is to think about – do I want to enter a business with such a high level of unpredictability where I have to create a whole app before I find out that they’re going to say no and is pushing them to look at other alternatives, so…

Leo Laporte Well, that might be wishful thinking. I don’t know if they are.

Baratunde Thurston The Google Voice app is a mild example of this because there is no Apple version because Apple said no…

Leo Laporte Right.

Baratunde Thurston …but so they just made a web app for it.

Leo Laporte Google did?

Baratunde Thurston …and the web app, yeah Google and the web app is super functional…

Kara Swisher Yeah.

Baratunde Thurston …you don’t need to go through an app store, you just point your browser and you use this crazy thing called the Internet…

Kara Swisher It was, it was…

Baratunde Thurston …which was designed to deliver [ph] no (28:35) goods and services [ph] and interactions (28:36).

Kara Swisher Yeah, it was a work around. It was a work around to what Apple is doing. I mean at one – on one side, you could say, well they do have the most successful device, smartphone device around and it’s been years before anyone’s really competed with it and even still as nice as the new Google phone is it’s still not quite a competitor yet to the iPhone yet. That doesn’t mean it’s not going to be.

Leo Laporte Well, it’s only sold 80,000 but I have to say as far as I’m concerned it’s better than the I – it’s what I use now.

Kara Swisher Well, everyone has a different opinion. I’m just saying it’s not a killer. It’s not an iPhone killer – is what people are looking to have happen…

Leo Laporte No, nothing is an iPhone killer.

Kara Swisher …and it’s still…it’s been years now where people haven’t competed with this phone yet and they should and they certainly should but I think the issue is will Apple get into the same situation where it was in with the Microsoft – with Microsoft years ago with there – everyone, Apple will be more the precious smaller one versus the big wide mass market Microsoft in the computing space. Same thing happened them before. They did a lot of gating, they did a lot of – we’re only developing on our – saying you can’t have more than this kind of computer we’re designing everything from [ph] soup to nuts (29:33) and the question is will that matter or will they respond and maybe avoid that for [ph] the habit to have (29:45) the second time because [ph] you’ve (29:45) got this massive lead right now.

Baratunde Thurston And they’ve struck this really good evil genius balance between open and closed, much more open than they were in the past but closed enough to still play the A-hole card and invite screw you Apple [ph] # tags to fly (30:01) which they are on Twitter so everybody [ph] squeak Apple (30:02).

Kara Swisher Well, you know what, on some levels, in some levels this guy doesn’t care. I mean he’s creating what he wants to create and so they’re massively profitable now and doing very well with a lot of their stuff, so and their stock of course which can go up and down of course but they certainly are massively profitable with what they’re doing.

Leo Laporte Well, and that’s why I think a lot of developers are still in the Apple store. I mean they just follow the money, right.

Kara Swisher Well yeah, when we made ours, it was no choice. We did the iPhone first because that’s what everybody was using.

Baratunde Thurston And that’s the heartbreaking – what you just said is so heartbreaking.

Kara Swisher Well, my heart wasn’t broken [ph] let’s just say. I’m so sad. (30:33).

Baratunde Thurston You know this guy – he has [ph] to pull the words and throw away (30:37) out of his app’s description.

Leo Laporte Ain’t that horrible?

Baratunde Thurston He’s the Apple god, like that's absurd.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Baratunde Thurston It’s not right and that's what just bothers me. I know [ph] that (30:45) business-wise he’s probably doing great but it’s just a sad statements who – the level of power Apple has and the flippant ways in which he abuses that power.

Kara Swisher Well again this is not – this is not new. This is his entire history is what he’s done and, you know, I’ll tell you his – him being sick probably and surviving it, it probably has strengthened his like, “you know what, I am going to do what I want. This is my vision.”

Leo Laporte It sure seems like that. I mean he was – I’ve never heard him so outspoken as [ph] if this all ends me (31:11).

Kara Swisher And then things like, “I don’t care, well, you know, [ph] I beat liver cancer (31:15).

Leo Laporte Right, so what can Eric Schmidt do to me?

Kara Swisher Well.

Baratunde Thurston I would love to see an all-out war between Apple and Google. Let’s just bring it, just bring it on.

Leo Laporte It is, it is. And by the way throw Amazon into the mix ’cause they’re at war with Google right now. In fact – I thought it was very – it was a huge mistake. Jeff Bezos’ made a very rare tactical blunder when he pulled, when he yanked Macmillan’s books because he was [ph] more scary (31:38). Well he but then he was forced almost immediately to back down and that's the opening that has [ph] Shet (31:44) and every other publisher, there’s only five big publishers…

Kara Swisher Yeah.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah.

Leo Laporte They’re going, “oh this guy’s – doesn’t – his powder’s wet, let’s go!” And so everybody’s going to go to the iPad and – go ahead, go ahead Wil, you haven’t said anything in a while.

Wil Harris Yeah. I mean that was Jeff Bezos real kind of staring down the barrel of the gun and…

Leo Laporte And blinking – and he is – this is rare…

Kara Swisher Yeah.

Wil Harris You [ph] can never judge (32:10) blinking, can you? No.

Leo Laporte Jobs will go down in flames before you’ll blink.

Wil Harris Absolutely.

Baratunde Thurston I want Google to do this thing. Amazon basically retaliated against Macmillan by pulling not only all their e-books but all books for a time, right, from their entire online…

Leo Laporte Yeah, that’s a good idea.

Baratunde Thurston So I want Google to do the same to Apple. Like you want to play this game, Apple? We will erase you from the Internet like you have done.

Kara Swisher Oh, no.

Leo Laporte Now, Kara, don’t they have to worry about the Department of Justice or somebody kind of get…

Kara Swisher Who, Apple?

Leo Laporte Anybody, you can’t start doing all of this stuff.

Kara Swisher Oh, no, Google probably is the one [indiscernible] (32:43) of the Justice Department at this point.

Leo Laporte Apple’s not a monopoly but yes they are.

Kara Swisher Yeah but it’s just --

Baratunde Thurston [Indiscernible] (32:50). I like this.

Kara Swisher These people that are in [indiscernible] (32:52) the backbone of like [ph] a jello (32:55). So they are going to do, what, the case they are going to win. And I know that’s going to be a tougher case than the Google case. And the Google case eventually is something they are considering various things. It’s going to be tough too. So they are have to pick the one they are going to not look like idiots.

Leo Laporte The good thing at least from the point of view of users is there is a clear and clear choice between open and proprietary, although there is certainly some proprietary stuff in Android, and Google has not always been pure goodness.

Wil Harris Yeah, I am not sure it’s always that clear-cut. I mean although we do think of Google as being sort of very open, I think they are less open and more looking to scale efficiently. I think what always strikes me, my personal [indiscernible] (33:41) the difference between Apple and Google is that when Apple is looking to scale something like the app store, it scales it by just having hundreds of people sitting in a room approving apps really, really, really quickly and getting it right and making sure that every single app meets sort of all their approval processes down to the text that goes along with it is the most important thing for them in order to get that quality of experience.

If you look at someone like Google, we’ve had a personal experience with YouTube where there’s – you can get licenses to sell your own ads against YouTube videos.

Leo Laporte You are talking about ChannelFlip, your business?

Wil Harris Yeah, yeah, and YouTube has rolled it out to maybe like two people in the UK. And the reason they haven’t rolled out to more is because they can’t scale it without machines. They haven’t built the technology yet. And so rather than scale up and just throw people at a problem, they would rather do it in an efficient manner. And that’s no less open or close than anything that Apple has in the ecosystem. It’s just they want to scale using technology, not using people, and I think that’s what Google is doing with [indiscernible] (34:50)…

Kara Swisher You also have to think about all these companies. You’d like to have these – you’ll have to – we turn everything into a ridiculous horserace that they are ones against the other. Google is all over Apple’s maps. It did not come off the iPad in this iteration at least at the launch.

Leo Laporte Although Steve didn’t really mention Google when he said…

Kara Swisher No, no, he showed – no, no, he did. He was at the launch stage, showed it, they showed the maps.

Baratunde Thurston Sort of street view.

Leo Laporte I saw the word Google. I saw the word Google. He said our maps.

Kara Swisher Yeah, he did.

Leo Laporte He was very clear saying, our maps.

Kara Swisher Yeah, but I guess – but this is of course what technology people like parse over ridiculously.

Leo Laporte Hey, that’s my job. What are you talking?

Kara Swisher But still – it’s still – I know. It’s still in there. Maps are still in there

Leo Laporte No, I agree. He didn’t pull it. Although what about this rumor that they want to replace Google with Bing? I mean that’s…

Kara Swisher They could, that’s of course rumor. Thank you. You need to actually report a story out and find out if it’s actually true before you write it...

Leo Laporte Yeah, nobody has confirmed but this is another one of those magic TechCrunch stories.

Kara Swisher But I mean I think that putting them one against the other is just typical of us as reporters to do that. The fact of the matter is I used to go – I used to send a friend [ph] until I got Best Buy (35:50) and people come up to you and I turn to the person and I say this is person is not your [indiscernible] (35:54) friend there and I try to – I say this is not your friend. They don’t want to help you. They want to sell whatever stupid device they want to sell today and so none of these companies are your friend. They want to do – these are not your friends. They want to do whatever…

Leo Laporte No, in fact they have a – they are all publicly held, publicly traded. They have a fiduciary responsibility to their stakeholders to maximize profits, period. The difference – period, and you don’t have to say any more except that the difference is in the business model. And Google even pointed this out in a recent blogpost. They said, ‘However, our business model, we succeed when you use the web more.’

Kara Swisher Sure.

Leo Laporte And so openness is almost built into Google’s business model because all they really care – they don’t so much care that you use Chrome versus Safari versus Firefox, at least I hope not.

Kara Swisher Today, today, they don’t care.

Leo Laporte Today, they care that you use the web more. And the point of Chrome is to give you a better experience but all they care about is that you surf the web because they are going to win no matter what whereas Apple wins when you use Apple products and only Apple products.

Kara Swisher Sure, but the fact of the matter is, Google is 70-some – listen, I mean let me just make a disclosure. I live with a Google executive. And I’m frightened of the company, you know what I mean? It’s just like – when you have 70-some percent of the market share in search, and you have what, 90–some in Europe, I don’t know, what is it? It’s some ridiculous amount in Europe. And most countries, they have these massive things, they can do whatever they want.

And so whether or not they do or not or whether it’s in their interest to be that way, they’re still this massively powerful company. And it’s not who runs it today, it’s who runs it in ten years. I mean if they decide all of a sudden in their algorithm that everything that has pink in it is what we’re going to – you know, it’s just a situation…

Leo Laporte No, you’re right.

Kara Swisher It’s a situation where they – I think they don’t accept the fact that they have such power over the Internet. And they think they’re benign. And whether they’re benign or not depends on who’s running the company at the time and what’s going on or anything else. So I think more competition against Apple…

Wil Harris I think you’re exactly right. I think Apple in – maybe a decade’s time when Steve is perhaps not the person that’s up running it, it’s going to be a very, very different company from whatever it is now.

Kara Swisher And Google too. And Google too.

Wil Harris And Google too.

Leo Laporte Maybe I should point out at this point The New York Times editorial that came out on Thursday from former Microsoft executive Dick Brass, who was the guy who ran the tablet division at Microsoft, really hanging out some dirty laundry at Microsoft, saying, well, you know, we created ClearType but we were told by a Microsoft executive that they’d only roll it out if he could have the employees and the technology in his division, the Office guy said ClearType makes me sick, it’ll never appear in Office over my dead body, and on and on.

But the point that Dick Brass made was – and I think probably a good point – that Microsoft is essentially a dysfunctional company. And I wonder if that’s just – I mean look at – it’s almost like a business cycle. Look what happened to IBM, dominant, over time becomes less dominant, doesn’t go away. Microsoft is never going away, they made $6 billion last quarter. But they’re not – in this whole conversation, they’re not a player. They’ve kind of become irrelevant. And I wonder if in ten years we’ll be saying the same thing about Apple and the same thing about Google.

Wil Harris Well, I think what’s really interesting is that nobody has the ability right now to kill anybody else off. If you look at Google’s market cap – just a quick Google – ironically, I Googled it – is about 168 billion.

Leo Laporte Wow.

Wil Harris Apple’s at 177 billion. Neither of them has got enough cash to make a dent in the shares of the other.

Leo Laporte Right. Right.

Wil Harris So they’re kind of…

Leo Laporte But you would have said the same thing about Microsoft ten years ago and the same thing about IBM thirty years ago. This is not – it’s hard for us to imagine their hegemony being shattered, but these things happen.

Wil Harris Maybe, I mean Microsoft’s market is still above – it’s almost double, it’s kind of above 300 billion.

Kara Swisher 280, yeah, something like that.

Wil Harris Which is crazy. So if Apple – if Microsoft chose to realize a lot of its assets, it could be either of them…

Leo Laporte But that’s the point. That’s the point. That’s the point, though, they’re just like – I mean they don’t…

Kara Swisher Well, no, you have to give them credit. Bing is a nice effort. It is, no matter how you slice it. I mean it’s something Yahoo! should have been doing for years now. But they are trying to make some efforts that are actually innovative.

Leo Laporte Talk about damning with fake praise, Kara. ‘A nice effort.’

Kara Swisher Well, it is! Bing is good, I like it and I use it. it’s really – I’m saying it’s something that they can’t get much traction, although they’ve added market share, a couple of percentage points, because they’re so small, it’s really difficult. And I think that if they had – if Yahoo! had done this and tried to differentiate themselves from Google, that it would probably be a different story.

Leo Laporte Right.

Kara Swisher But I think they’re – I mean they are trying on some levels. But I think – they’re just really good at operating systems, is what they were good at, and Google’s really good at search. And so that’s where the problem is. If you become really good at one thing, it doesn’t mean you’re going to be good at anything else or particularly successful.

Leo Laporte Well, the operating system is being replaced by the cloud. It’s become less important.

Kara Swisher Well, that is a problem, I accept, that’s a little problem. Sure.

Baratunde Thurston We are all care bears now.

Leo Laporte Is that a Tweet, you’re getting ready for the game? ‘We are all Care Bears now.’

Baratunde Thurston No, you said we’re living in the cloud, that’s where the Care Bears live, so.

Kara Swisher We do.

Leo Laporte Oh, I’m sorry, apparently I missed that cultural reference, I’m sorry.

Baratunde Thurston That’s cool. We’re here to help.

Kara Swisher You didn’t enjoy Care Bears?

Leo Laporte I am younger than you fellows and apparently I missed the Care Bear revolution.

Kara Swisher Yeah.

Leo Laporte I was Captain Kangaroo.

Kara Swisher Oh, dear.

Leo Laporte You make a bunny rabbit reference, I’m ready.

Kara Swisher Okay, that’s a great name.

Wil Harris That’s a great show title, by the way.

Kara Swisher Okay. You could be Mr. Green Jeans if you took off the glasses and wore some jeans. See?

Leo Laporte Great. Thank you, Kara, well.

Kara Swisher No problem.

Leo Laporte On that note, let me take a break. We’re going to come back in just a second, a great panel, Kara Swisher, Baratunde Thurston, and of course, Wil Harris talking about the latest in tech news. We’re going to talk about the Facebook redesign that’s upsetting people so much. You know, every pixel counts when you’re a big time website, apparently.

Speaking of websites, I want to mention our friends at, what a great New York based company, young guys who in college said, there’s got to be a better way to do a website. And Anthony and Dane and the gang said, we can do better and they started writing some really amazing software and now they’ve become more than just a content management system. They are a web hosting company that just does a fantastic job. We have moved our TWiT blog over to I know many people – many of my friends have also gone to Squarespace for several reasons.

Baratunde Thurston I use it.

Leo Laporte You use it, Baratunde?

Baratunde Thurston Yeah, love it.

Leo Laporte Tell my why?

Baratunde Thurston Well – allowed me to focus on just creating instead of worrying about coding.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Baratunde Thurston And even I was on WordPress before and I still have a lot of love for WordPress, so this is actually no slight against them but I wanted my blog to change from 700 pixels wide to 900 pixels wide and I just slit it.

Leo Laporte Isn’t that beautiful?

Baratunde Thurston It’s just easy. It’s kind of like that big red Staples easy button but for real. It was like just a lot easier to focus on the creation of the content and not so much the coding and design of the infrastructure.

Leo Laporte With Squarespace, you start – I think – I don’t know, they have 10, 15 templates, beautiful templates. But the point is that you’re not stuck with that because you immediately with drag and drop can modify, there’re 14 templates, 60 styles. You can so easily modify your site. And if you are a CSS wiz or a Java Script wiz, there’s no limit to what you can do. You’re never boxed in with Squarespace, beautiful sites.

All you have to do if you want to see what Squarespace is capable of, just go to the samples on the Squarespace. Go to, and you can do all of this. In fact, you can try it free for two weeks, no credit card necessary, it has import tools for Blogger, WordPress, TightPad and export, I love this, you don’t – you’re never locked in. You can move around. Some of the most amazing sites are done on Squarespace because it’s quick, it’s easy, it’s beautiful, you focus on the content. And because Squarespace uses a very sophisticated server technology, you never ever get slashed out or dug out of existence, it’s very powerful. Look how good this looks., you can try it yourself for free for two weeks. And if you use a TWiT coupon code, you get 10% off, starts at $8 a month. It’s a great deal for hosting and the most powerful CMS system out there, You’ll love them and I think you’re going to want to give them a try.

Baratunde Thurston They have a pretty good iPhone app as well.

Leo Laporte Well, that – okay just between us, that’s the one that Apple blocked because they didn’t like an icon.

Baratunde Thurston Are you kidding me? You’re saying just between us, just between like me, you and the Internet.

Leo Laporte Yeah, just between us kids. It’s a beautiful app, they had to change one icon like three pixels and then Apple said, oh, yeah, now it’s perfect.

Baratunde Thurston That’s awesome. Our future is going to be determined by people who get upset about the pixel size of an icon.

Leo Laporte But Steve has an incredible design sense, and you cannot – I mean, Kara, I know you have --

Kara Swisher I think it’s great, I think – who wants to do that, they just – don’t use it, I don’t know what to say like he does – this is what...

Leo Laporte You have a choice.

Kara Swisher I think when we were at the demo room at the iPod launch, when he was trying – I got some of it on video.

Leo Laporte I know you clicked it, which is so cool.

Kara Swisher I got a – there is a whole two minutes of him talking about naming the iPod that I totally...

Leo Laporte iPad.

Kara Swisher iPad – excuse me. That he was talking about the naming of it, which I of course push the wrong button and then it didn’t record. He was talking about fonts. He said why – I think [ph] Katie Brad (45:36) asked him why he want it, and pat, he goes, well, the fonts look great iPad, iPod, iPhone, they look terrific together. And that was one of his [indiscernible] (45:44) of the main things he mentioned, it was right in there. So it matters to him. He was a design – he was a font – he did that in the college, right? Something like that, he studied font design?

Leo Laporte That and he worked at an apple orchard, that’s the only thing I know of him and he was barefoot much of the time.

Kara Swisher That’s never going away, I got to tell you, no matter what – and I don’t care how – it’s never going to be ugly.

Leo Laporte No, I admire him immensely for that and I guess you are right. You have a choice, you cannot use Apple. The problem is, as much as we geeks may moan and groan about the closed system, Baratunde, do you use an iPhone?

Baratunde Thurston I absolutely do. I told you, [indiscernible] (46:18) delicious sometime. And it was the best tool – I mean I had the G1, I had the myTouch and both of those were severely underpowered devices. They just couldn’t handle what I needed them to do. This device needs to be a mobile media production studio. And they didn’t have enough RAM or enough processor power so they could do all the live coverage and photo taking and tagging and everything I wanted. So I got embed with AT&T very reluctantly and very sadly and I deepened my relationship with Apple, a company that I both love and hate in equal parts depending on the moment of the hour of the day that I am talking about.

Leo Laporte Can I say --

Kara Swisher That sounds like a lot of my past relationships.

Leo Laporte It is.

Baratunde Thurston It’s pretty complicated.

Leo Laporte It’s complicated.

Kara Swisher The best ones actually.

Baratunde Thurston It’s complicated.

Kara Swisher The very best ones.

Leo Laporte It’s a love-hate thing. Why are you torturing me? So I have switched, I switched about three weeks ago to the Nexus One and have not looked back. I am really happy with it. There are a handful of apps I miss but I can’t – when I get the iPad I’ll have those apps.

Kara Swisher It’s a good phone. It’s a terrific phone.

Leo Laporte I love the Nexus One. It’s fast, it’s –

Baratunde Thurston What do you do about synchronizing media with iTunes, especially like audible content, podcasts, [indiscernible] (47:31)?

Leo Laporte One exception is Audible. Yeah, there is a program from DVD Jon, the guy who cracked the CSS code, he wrote --

Baratunde Thurston Oh, that’s nice.

Leo Laporte He wrote – no, no, this is legal; no there’s nothing piracy in this.

Baratunde Thurston Okay.

Leo Laporte He wrote a program called Double Twist that looks just like iTunes. It synchronizes the phone. It moves media over photos. It works perfectly. It even does playlists. The only thing it doesn’t do is Audible because there’s – Audible DRM is not supported on Android yet, but I have it on --

Kara Swisher It will be.

Leo Laporte It will be very soon. That will be the last piece of the puzzle for me. I mean multi-touch was big and once they added multi-touch, I am very happy with it.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah. And you don’t buy TV shows or movies from iTunes that you want to see portably.

Leo Laporte Do you watch those on your iPhone?

Kara Swisher I do.

Wil Harris Hell, yeah.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah, I used to – I watch most television on my iPhone.

Leo Laporte Oh, see. So you can strip the DRM out. There are a number of ways to do that on both Windows and Mac basically using the analog hole so you play it back, iTunes, you actually do it in iTunes, there are plug-ins for iTunes.

Baratunde Thurston It will take a while, okay.

Leo Laporte It takes – it’s faster than real time.

Baratunde Thurston Oh, it is?

Leo Laporte Yeah, yeah, depending on your Mac. But I – that doesn’t bother me and see, to me, this is why the iPad is going to be a great – I am not going to carry the iPad on a subway. But there’s a lot of – to me I can see carrying the iPad to do that. This phone is kind of small so. But you know I do have the iPhone with me, you know why? There’s Words For Friends, the scrabble thing, I can’t stop playing it.

Baratunde Thurston A game had forced you to carry an entirely extra device?

Leo Laporte Sad, isn’t it?

Wil Harris Well, it’s no worse than carrying a DS or something, right.

Baratunde Thurston No, well it’s just --

Leo Laporte Say again?

Wil Harris It’s no worse than carrying a DS.

Leo Laporte It’s like a – yeah, this is my game machine. I think the iPad will be a very good solution for that. Yeah, you --

Wil Harris iPad is the ultimate commuter machine.

Kara Swisher It is.

Wil Harris One who commutes four hours a day, it’s going to be – it’s going to revolutionize my life I think.

Kara Swisher It is. It’s a lot – it’s fascinating to watch a lot of the – I was talking to a teenager the other day, an actual teenager about the iPad. And he was like it sucks. And I said really? Have you yet touched it? No, but it sucks. And it was really interesting. I was like actually I spent many hours with it. It doesn’t suck. And but you are convinced that it does because of the flash issues and things like that around it. But I think people will be pleasantly surprised when they use it because it’s – someone else told me well, you know, it’s just like the iPhone or the iPod. And I am like what’s wrong with that [indiscernible] (49:53) now pick it up for music.

Wil Harris Yeah, that’s exactly what I want.

Kara Swisher So, that’s as far as --

Leo Laporte By the way --

Kara Swisher He is right about a computer device that won’t --

Leo Laporte The iPod and the iPhone were both reviled by many.

Wil Harris Absolutely.

Leo Laporte And you know what, I kind of think, Kara, because I also – I was in the petting zoo and held it and had a different experience as most of us who did hold it did from those who didn’t. And when you look – and I realized that when I looked at the Apple site, it’s kind of like the fat nano, it looks like there is something wrong with it.

Kara Swisher It looks, well, up close, it was – it’s funny that people – you know, the thing is everyone expect it to be some magic device it was --

Leo Laporte Right, there were no unicorn tears.

Kara Swisher Better than Viagra, better than all the things --

Leo Laporte No, nothing is better than Viagra, I am sorry.

Kara Swisher Oh, I wouldn’t know.

Baratunde Thurston But that expectation was fed by Apple using the word magical like 50 times…

Leo Laporte Right.

Baratunde Thurston …in the presentation, [ph] and it then came (50:40) out of nowhere.

Leo Laporte No, in fact I think in some ways, you could say that Steve made a few strategical errors in the speech. He shouldn’t have brought up netbooks at all because this is not a netbook. If you want flash and you want a camera --

Kara Swisher Louis is saying hello, that’s Louis.

Leo Laporte Hey, Louis. Oh, is he cute, oh my…

Kara Swisher He is cute.

Leo Laporte Stop being so cute. Get out of here.

Kara Swisher Here is the dog. Here is the dog. Hello, all right, and move on from children and dog…

Leo Laporte For those of you listening at home, we have just seen a small child, who is very cute with a missing front tooth and a dog of undetermined breed.

Kara Swisher Yeah, it’s a terrier.

Leo Laporte Terrier, I have a papillon.

Kara Swisher He loves the iPhone, he just can’t wait.

Leo Laporte It’s so easy a terrier can use it.

Kara Swisher Exactly.

Leo Laporte It’s the iPo.

Kara Swisher The iPo, that’s a good name.

Leo Laporte A whole new category of pet appliances. I think a lot of the – correct me if I am wrong, and I am not the only person who has said this. But I think some of the negative response to the iPad is from people who don’t like the idea of an appliance computer. And that’s why I think it was a mistake to raise the netbook …

Baratunde Thurston Yeah.

Leo Laporte Because you can still buy a netbook, buy a netbook if you want multitasking, flash, camera, buy a netbook. It’s 250 bucks.

Wil Harris Not a computer.

Leo Laporte But this is not a computer.

Wil Harris It’s not a computer, and a lot of people are annoyed that it’s not a computer. It’s – as you say it’s an appliance, it’s a device.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah.

Wil Harris It’s not a real computer and some people will want a real computer and be disappointed. Some people will not care and will be very happy.

Leo Laporte I think a lot of people – and I think by the way contrary to past experience, the 499 price point is the one that’s going to sell the most.

Baratunde Thurston Well, I think part of what’s happened too is that people were – Apple has yet to fill a hole that people want, which as you know the MacBook Air for all its beauty is still a somewhat impractical sized small notebook for true portability because it’s so broad and wide, the depth is really thin but that’s about it. And we’ve got a touch screen device already. So it’s, oh, this is just a – this is a big iPod touch. So there is something missing from the Apple lineup in a lot of peoples’ eye. They don’t have a super light notebook plus it’s just easy to mock things that you haven’t touched or used.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Baratunde Thurston And people --

Kara Swisher How much work do you do on the iPad? How much – I am just curious of your work?

Leo Laporte On the iPhone?

Kara Swisher What do you – on an iPhone, excuse me, on the iPhone? What do you guys do?

Leo Laporte I tweet.

Baratunde Thurston I had everything. I do mostly – especially a lot of like live events. I go to live events and I try to cover them in certain semi-journalistic ways and sometimes comedic ways, photo posting, using the Facebook on a regular basis.

Leo Laporte Yeah, it’s really good for that.

Baratunde Thurston Tweeting on a regular basis.

Kara Swisher So you are going to like this.

Baratunde Thurston E-mail.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Baratunde Thurston But I would say – there was a great post on a site called Emergent by Design, which a woman Venessa, I don’t know how to pronounce her last name, Miemis, M I E M I S, she has a post called iPad: Overhyped Flop or a case of Great Design Thinking. And she waited to weigh in, which I think also a lot of people didn’t do. They saw the keynote or they saw a live blog covering the keynote. And they’re like I hate it, just like you were saying, Kara, have you touched it, have you used it? No, but it sucks.

Kara Swisher Yeah, yeah.

Baratunde Thurston And you know that, [indiscernible] (53:59). So she waited and read all of the top criticism and praise. And it’s really a smart and thoughtful post sort of in defense of the iPad, the key hook being it’s not just a device. The iPod didn’t explode in sales until iTunes was launched.

Wil Harris [Indiscernible] (54:12)

Baratunde Thurston Yeah, to connect content to the device and…

Leo Laporte It’s the channel.

Baratunde Thurston So the iBook Store will be an interesting test for this, the connection with the existing options...

Kara Swisher The book – I got …

Baratunde Thurston …app store will be a big test but we won’t really know is the ultimate truth that no one can really ever admit to.

Kara Swisher Yeah, it’s got to be out in the wild. I think people have to see people using it to see if they like it. I mean there is [indiscernible] (54:34) that’s coming that’s quite beautiful too. I mean it would be great as a lot of these things…

Leo Laporte Well, there are, I mean, gosh, there were 12 of them in the TES.

Kara Swisher That’s great. That’s going to be great. They are going to be great. And if they start to come down in price to a much lower price point, it becomes really interesting. Beyond the iPad and the [indiscernible] (54:51) attached to it, when these things get to be really inexpensive it becomes incredibly interesting, and as they develop I think personally in these...

Leo Laporte Is mobility the key element here? Is that what’s – Kara, is that what pushes this?

Kara Swisher Yeah, I think so. You would be able to move around the house with one instead of being tethered to all kinds of things. I think that’s – in a perfectly wireless world – I mean you have got to sort of, weirdly enough, give Bill Gates some credit because he has been talking about – I found an old piece I did from the CES [indiscernible] (55:20) years ago where he kept pushing the tablet format. And unfortunately, what his problem was – he did, he really did…

Leo Laporte Oh, yeah, he loved it.

Wil Harris I feel so sorry for Bill. He spent like half a decade…

Baratunde Thurston Never ever --

Leo Laporte He had a stylish – it was running Windows and don’t feel sorry for the world’s richest man.

Baratunde Thurston Never feel sorry for a billionaire. That’s just the rule of life.

Kara Swisher No, but he was really – he was really going behind it. I think he is really behind the notion of mobility and portability.

Leo Laporte Do you remember, Kara, that CES was one that they dropped a house like Wizard of Oz in the parking lot of CES? It was a whole house and they had in each room – they had --

Kara Swisher Oh, the Microsoft home, yeah.

Leo Laporte Microsoft – and they had the mom in the kitchen with her tablet. They had the dad in the living room with his tablet. They had junior in the bedroom with his tablet. And they were all sitting near the [indiscernible] (56:02) people and the journalists would track through and look…

Kara Swisher There is a great video called Future Vision or Future Productivity Vision. I’ll have to send you the – I think it’s on YouTube that Microsoft did of all. I use it a lot in speeches because it really does show a world [indiscernible] (56:20) as it work, tablet and other devices, especially screens on walls everywhere, which I think is also a thing that is coming in a very big way.

And you should watch it. It’s called Microsoft Future Productivity Vision or something like that.

Leo Laporte Is this one from 2019?

Kara Swisher I think so. It’s just because kids like – kids in India and kids in – yeah, that one. They are trading back things. And then there is a really funny spoof that IGN did about the whole thing that was --

Leo Laporte Oh, I have seen this, yeah, I remember seeing this.

Kara Swisher Yeah, there is one where they have the guy with a little – anyway it’s a great video, but you should all watch – I put it up as that one and then the spoof at the same time. Spoof was even funnier.

Leo Laporte, if you want to see that.

Kara Swisher Yeah, that’s it.

Leo Laporte Microsoft has always been good at making concept videos, not so hot at getting these products out into the market…

Baratunde Thurston They should maybe go into the video production line.

Leo Laporte They have always had that great. In fact, that was one of the things that Dick Brass said, he said he knew that the company was in trouble when they got the CEO of the company to wiggle his tush with Jerry Seinfeld in a commercial and it was like this is not good.

Kara Swisher Oh, that was – that was very bad.

Leo Laporte This is not good.

Baratunde Thurston And it seem, I actually – I have got a [ph] go (57:30) comment on things they don’t understand right now --

Kara Swisher Excellent.

Leo Laporte It’s time to football, okay.

Kara Swisher And that is web, commenting on things you don’t know.

Leo Laporte Oh, that’s what we all do, Baratunde Thurston is it,, catch his comedy act in – is it in Brooklyn?

Baratunde Thurston I perform all over. I host a weekly show in Times Square.

Leo Laporte Times Square.

Baratunde Thurston People can check that out at [ph] (57:49) or just find my website. The latest gigs are out there under Live Appearances. And thank you. Again, it’s always a pleasure. Really an honor to be on here with you, Kara and Wil, I have listened to you and Reggie both for a long time. So thanks for letting me play.

Kara Swisher Thanks.

Leo Laporte Really great to have you.

Kara Swisher Enjoy, enjoy.

Leo Laporte Enjoy –

Wil Harris Watch your handegg.

Leo Laporte Yeah, handegg, is that what you call it, handegg?

Wil Harris Yeah.

Leo Laporte Okay.

Kara Swisher Remember, Kardashian, Kardashian.

Baratunde Thurston Do you have to put all poisonous names into my head so many times?

Kara Swisher Geez, [Indiscernible] (58:19) a hundred times. You know that – her and her butt, they are --

Leo Laporte Well, she has been sitting down unless --

Kara Swisher She will get up…

Leo Laporte Knowing her, she will in fact get up and turn around and wait.

Kara Swisher She will get up…

Leo Laporte Oh, yeah. All right, thank you, Baratunde. It’s great to see you.

Baratunde Thurston Thanks, guys.

Leo Laporte What are you doing there, Wil? What is that?

Wil Harris I was saying that definitely the best thing about Super Bowl is the cheerleaders.

Kara Swisher Yeah.

Leo Laporte I just saw a study of NFL Football that said that the total action on the field part of the three hour television broadcast is 11 minutes. And the total amount of cheerleader time, Wil, you’ll be very disappointed to know, is about 20 seconds.

Kara Swisher Really.

Leo Laporte They don’t say that a very lot.

Wil Harris Couple of wasted opportunity.

Leo Laporte I know.

Wil Harris I mean they actually had a – last year, they had a big NFL event in London at one of the big London stadiums to turn sort of – I don’t know, turn English people on to NFL. And one of the big selling points was cheerleaders and every one of my friends that I know went to go and see this sort of a thing of American cheerleading which…

Leo Laporte You don’t have cheerleading in Britain?

Wil Harris Not really.

Kara Swisher No

Wil Harris I think I guess maybe it’s sort of [ph] considered a big gosh (59:25) or something.

Kara Swisher Not at all, you can imagine.

Wil Harris Also maybe…

Kara Swisher You can’t see British cheerleaders, right?

Leo Laporte Oh, how exciting

Kara Swisher It’d be all men, actually. It’ll be all men.

Leo Laporte Oh, of course.

Wil Harris I guess the British equivalents are kind of sort of polo girls.

Kara Swisher What?

Wil Harris So if you have [indiscernible] (59:44) matches, there are always legions of sloaney ponies --

Kara Swisher Oh, okay.

Leo Laporte Sloane Rangers, so you are saying that in a – whatever [ph] passage (59:52) is equivalent of high school in Great Britain, and the team is playing on the field. There is no accompanying…

Wil Harris No cheerleaders, no, cheerleaders don’t exist, they don’t exist. And having played in quite a lot of high school sports teams, I was very disappointed to find no cheerleaders.

Leo Laporte I was kind of – and so I wonder if this is only in America – I know Canada must have cheerleaders because they are...

Kara Swisher You know, there is actually a British Cheerleading Association, I have to tell you.

Leo Laporte Look at Kara. Kara is the reporter. She immediately Googled, Britain and cheerleaders, look at that.

Kara Swisher Look at them, oh, look at them. Great. It’s Yes, indeed, dedicated to it.

Leo Laporte Well now that we’ve lost all our viewers, those who went to the Super Bowl and those who went to cheerleading site --

Kara Swisher I’m on it. As a crap reporter, I am on this story.

Leo Laporte You are so good. I was impressed that you whipped at your flip-phone when Walt is talking to Steve...

Kara Swisher Are you kidding, what are you kidding?

Leo Laporte No, that’s great...

Kara Swisher I was like – [ph] Teddy (01:00:41) caught and tried to give me an elbow but I managed to back --

Leo Laporte Well, that’s what I was wondering because Steve – first of all, Steve doesn’t normally talk to people. He tries not to talk to people on the record.

Kara Swisher Yeah.

Leo Laporte And especially, he’s got a known antipathy to journalists. But then did he not notice that you had – probably he don’t even notice.

Kara Swisher You know there were – there was a crowd around him, so and everybody was taking pictures and I think he was trying to ignore it and probably [ph] if he hip-checked (1:01:08) Walt’s partner, it would be a problem, I don’t know.

Leo Laporte Yeah, they like Walt.

Kara Swisher There was a lot of people behind him.

Leo Laporte Yeah, Apple likes Walt. They don’t want to mess with him.

Kara Swisher Right, but I don’t think he noticed, I actually tell you, I don’t think he noticed.

Leo Laporte Yeah. He noticed me – I was...

Kara Swisher I’m small – I’m small and tricky.

Leo Laporte I’m not small and I was in the keynote holding up a laptop.

Kara Swisher Oh, really?

Leo Laporte And I think he did notice me because I – he gave me the stink eye a couple of times.

Kara Swisher Right, he may have given, I don’t care.

Leo Laporte I won’t be going back. I’m sure. They won’t invite me back. So who has seen the Facebook redesign? Because maybe I’ve seen it and I just don’t know...

Kara Swisher I have, I have, yeah.

Leo Laporte What does it look like? What is new?

Kara Swisher I don’t notice, honestly. There were stories about Facebook’s redesign, I mean I know it matters a great deal but it’s just – every time they redesign, everybody hates it, and then gets used to it sort of kind of thing. And it’s just – it’s not that big a deal. I don’t think it is.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I would say why does it matter a great deal? Why even say that? I mean people – it matters I guess to people who use Facebook constantly and they can’t find a button.

Kara Swisher Yeah, yeah.

Leo Laporte So this is my Facebook. Is this the new design? I can’t [ph] tell, it’s the (1:02:09) same as the old one.

Kara Swisher They made some tweaks in a variety of areas. I just – I think what’s more interesting is the stories about them doing email, which they should have been doing a long time ago. And that’s important because their email is just the most atrocious product on the planet.

Leo Laporte So they are going to have – is it going to be like Yahoo! or Gmail or they’ll have a Facebook mail?

Kara Swisher I don’t know. I mean it would be nice to able to forward their mail. I keep saying, you know, it’s sort of 2010; you might want to have forwarded mail. But I don’t know, we’ll see.

Leo Laporte So we have the crappy Facebook inboxes, how they do it right now.

Kara Swisher Yeah. I don’t use it at all for mail, ever.

Leo Laporte No, because stuff gets disappeared and there is no way to manage it and it goes missing. So I guess if they had like real email but it doesn’t make any sense – if it’s – I guess you could beef up the inbox or you could have the service.

Kara Swisher Or you could have the email come in to it, I guess, you know, like regular email works, I suppose. I mean that would be an improvement.

Leo Laporte Is Facebook as dominant as they were – I mean last year, it looked like it was a Facebook world?

Kara Swisher Well, 400 million – I don’t know, what’s it like --

Leo Laporte 400 million, 400 million users.

Wil Harris It seems like everybody you know uses Facebook. I mean there was a ridiculous statistic that you know [indiscernible] (01:03:20) a third of all page views were generated on Facebook, like on the Internet.

Leo Laporte Wow.

Wil Harris And for a lot of people, it used to be the sort of Google was the Internet. That was where you started for everything. And now it kind of seems like increasingly Facebook is the Internet --

Kara Swisher Yeah, I mean I think they are dying.

Wil Harris Which is terrible, but kind of true. When I – I would say probably 90% of my friends use the Internet 90% of the time for Facebook.

Leo Laporte So there is a guy named Larry – I don’t know, is it Ponemon – you have the Ponemon Institute.

Wil Harris Pokémon?

Leo Laporte Sounds like that, but it’s not. He is actually quite serious. And he did a study of what he calls the privacy-centric population. About 8% of the population don’t sign up for supermarket loyalty cards, stay away from all that stuff. He did a study of them. Most of these will still post pictures on Facebook, will tell stories on Facebook. They do not go to their privacy settings. They don’t spend more time than others tweaking their privacy settings. And there is an interesting article on MSNBC’s Red Tape Chronicles about this. Bob Sullivan is talking about the fact that Facebook seems to encourage people who are normally private people to go public.

Kara Swisher Well, use your friends, right? I mean that makes sense.

Wil Harris Yeah.

Leo Laporte Well, that’s the illusion. Is it really your friends though? I mean this is part of the problem with Facebook is you get the feeling that only your friends are seeing it, but in fact marketers can see it, [indiscernible] (01:04:48) can see. Your stuff is really wide open to everybody except people who...

Wil Harris That is part of it, right? I mean part of the original appeal of Facebook was that you could share all of this stuff and you are only sharing it with your friends, and say it wasn’t like sharing with the Internet. It’s like same as having a mobile phone text conversation or something. I think what Facebook has been arguably the [indiscernible] (01:05:11) is opening all that stuff up to the wider world because now you kind of get a more web-like experience in terms of sharing your private stuff. But you think that you are sharing in a much closer confines.

Leo Laporte Sullivan talks about --

Wil Harris I think that --

Leo Laporte One of the issues being – in some studies they have shown that people will put information such as how many sexual partners they have had on Facebook but not give it to a researcher to put on Facebook because they want a human to see it.

Kara Swisher

Leo Laporte So this is kind of illusion that you’re – well, it’s not really a person. I am just putting it on the website.

Kara Swisher Yeah, I don’t consider Facebook for a lot of privacy, I mean that’s interesting, but I mean most people really don’t care what they put on Facebook…

Leo Laporte They don’t.

Kara Swisher …especially, younger people don’t care. They put everything on there. And it’s there – it’s where they live. It’s their little address book of the Internet. It’s their little home on the Internet. I think someone like me who has been around for 109 years, I get Facebook fatigue, I don’t have time. But certainly if you have grown up in that paradigm, it’s the way you interact with the Internet. It reminds me a great deal of how people used to interact with AOL a million years ago because that was sort of your home on the Internet for a long, long time.

Leo Laporte You wrote a great book on AOL, didn’t you?

Kara Swisher Yeah, two of them in fact. I am a glutton for punishment but I did the rise and the fall pretty much.

Leo Laporte Right, right.

Kara Swisher And AOL had all these things, a lot of it social, profiles. They were very crude but they had the buddy list, they had chat, they had a wall kind of thing. So they really did – start – pioneer all this stuff. It’s just a question of if once people get used to it, they move off, they certainly did off AOL within seconds when something better came available. But they have – Facebook has been really effective at creating this home on the Internet that I think is really interesting. I mean I think it’s a real another interesting thing that has happened and people do want to [ph] feel the (1:07:02) place they are safe and at least they [indiscernible] (1:07:04).

Leo Laporte Even there is an illusion. It’s just illusion but they have [indiscernible] (1:07:06).

Kara Swisher No, of course, that could be [indiscernible] (1:07:07) so easily, I mean that’s…

Leo Laporte Right, right. Pew study came out, it’s called social media and mobile internet use among teens and young adults, they did two telephone surveys in September focusing on teens aged 12 to 17 and then 18 and older. Blogging among teens and young adults has plummeted to half of what it was three years ago…

Kara Swisher Yeah.

Leo Laporte …and they are using – basically they are using Facebook and Twitter.

Kara Swisher Yeah, that’s probably right.

Leo Laporte That’s where everything is going these days.

Kara Swisher Yeah.

Leo Laporte And I think there is this kind of lowered expectation of privacy. I think people just say, well, it’s out there. I don’t care really if it’s out there, especially the younger - one of the reason I am paying attention to this is besides the fact that I have teenagers, I am going to do a seminar in a couple of weeks for families about what kids are doing online and what the consequences and risks might be and we still don’t know. Do we really?

Kara Swisher Well, maybe we do a little bit. I mean it’s like a kind of humanity, it’s just a younger version of them. But I mean one of the things that I – I was just at an eight grade class at my kid’s school, they are older kids. And there was a lot of name calling – the name calling stuff goes on these things between the schools and stuff like that. You know very typical of what you would expect them to do when they had other means of doing it. It just gives them super tools to be doing the things that they should and shouldn’t be doing. But a lot of it is just where are you at. What are you doing? Here’s my picture. A lot of it is really mundane. And then it moves to dementia, like demented behavior in a very small group of people. So I don’t know if it’s so different. It’s just the tools are really good to be able to share.

Leo Laporte I want to talk about a grownup who used Twitter to resign his job this week in just a moment. But before I do, I want to mention our friends at Citrix who do a great product called GoToMeeting. They do the wonderful remote access stuff, GoToMyPC, of course, the high-end enterprise stuff. GoToMeeting uses that same backbone of technology to make it possible for you to meet, accomplish stuff without the numbing – mind numbing and bankbook breaking travel that normally is involved in business.

Business travel – because it’d be just so expensive, not to mention the stress and strain, I use GoToMeeting all the time. We actually use it on some of our shows. It’s a wonderful way to share sales presentations, product demos for training. You can have the program on your system. If a guy doesn’t, you show her how to use it on your system and say, okay, now I am going to give you control, go ahead and play with it even though she hasn’t installed it.

The nice thing also is it is very simple for somebody to use if you don’t want a client to be jumping through hoops if you want to show him a PowerPoint sales presentation, you are not going to make him say, go through three install software and do all this. This is very easy. You send him an invitation in e-mail, they click a link or you can even do it while you are on the phone. You say go to, you there, okay press the join a meeting button, now they are seeing your screen, they see your presentation just like you are there in real time. You can give them control.

Mac-PC, doesn’t matter and at $49 a month for as many meetings you want as long as you want, this is really going to save your company money. I want you to try it right now, absolutely free for 30 days. You go to, give it a try, show your boss, do it with the clients. You could – unlimited meetings, by the way, also includes voice-over-Internet and free teleconferencing with this., I hear a dog.

Kara Swisher Yeah that’s two of them actually.

Leo Laporte, we thank them so much for their support of this Week in TECH.

Wil Harris Leo, I have --

Leo Laporte Yes, Wil, go ahead.

Wil Harris I was going to say, I have to say, I actually was on a GoToMeeting last week.

Leo Laporte I think more and more people are using it.

Wil Harris A [ph] very good (1:10:43) experience. You know, we have had pretty miserable weather here in London, and the idea of trekking across London to go to a meeting was pretty grim. And so I had a GoToMeeting and I got everything done and it was pretty [indiscernible] (1:10:55).

Leo Laporte Kara, are you in New York?

Kara Swisher I am in San Francisco.

Leo Laporte Oh, you are lucky, those people back East – all --

Kara Swisher I don’t care.

Leo Laporte Just snowed in, we don’t care.

Kara Swisher Yes, they are. Walt sent me some great pictures of – it’s like four feet of snow.

Leo Laporte It’s amazing.

Kara Swisher Yeah, it looks like crazy like his driveway looks nuts. He sent pictures of his driveway and the walkway and the street and it was pretty – that was – I used to live in DC, so it was a big snowstorm….

Leo Laporte Is Walt in DC?

Kara Swisher Yeah, he lives in DC.

Leo Laporte Oh, I didn’t know that.

Kara Swisher He used to cover the Defense Department.

Leo Laporte Oh, really.

Kara Swisher [Indiscernible] (1:11:21) yeah, he did. But he just became sort of this geekish person and he was covering the Defense Department and wanted to do this instead, and everyone thought he was nuts because that was like a big bee covering defense, so and a good choice for Walt, I would say.

Leo Laporte Oh yeah. I always say that too. Technology has been very, very good to me.

Kara Swisher He covered national security more than defense. He covered the State Department…

Leo Laporte Actually that's a fascinating bee.

Kara Swisher Yeah, he did. He covered Jim Baker, I think, during that tenure.

Leo Laporte Wow.

Kara Swisher Yeah.

Leo Laporte So it’s been kind of sad to watch the transfer of power and the demise of Sun which was one of the great companies.

Kara Swisher It was.

Leo Laporte Created by hippies, had kind of this hippy mentality and yet did servers than ran the Internet. They still run much of the Internet.

Kara Swisher Yeah.

Leo Laporte But struggled in recent years.

Kara Swisher Indeed.

Leo Laporte And finally went out of – basically went out of business, acquired by Oracle. The acquisition is now going – Scott McNealy wrote what I thought was surprisingly personal, a little indulgent but that’s what you’d expect from something highly personal.

Kara Swisher And Scott McNealy ….

Leo Laporte Yeah, he totally Scott McNealy, wasn’t he?

Kara Swisher Because he’s been so shy over the years, you know.

Leo Laporte It was very funny to read it. It leaked out I guess the farewell…

Kara Swisher It leaked out. Yeah.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Scott leaked it out over his Facebook probably.

Kara Swisher No, he sent that to like 400 [indiscernible] (12:44)

Leo Laporte Did he?

Kara Swisher I’m assuming.

Leo Laporte I got it from an employee actually of Sun. But it was – let me see if I can find it because I could read some passages. But then the funniest thing is the CEO, Jonathan Schwartz resigns via haiku on Twitter.

Kara Swisher I know my little pony was very amusing.

Leo Laporte Why do you call him my little pony?

Kara Swisher Oh, I don’t, Steve Jobs does. It’s really funny.

Leo Laporte Oh good.

Kara Swisher Because of the pony tail, he calls him…

Leo Laporte Yeah, my little pony.

Kara Swisher It’s the prefect nickname.

Leo Laporte It is kind of, you know? Schwartz twittered financial crisis stalled too many customers, CEO no more.

Kara Swisher Yeah.

Leo Laporte Wow!

Wil Harris Was that like haiku Thursday?

Kara Swisher I am deeply moved.

Leo Laporte Yeah

Kara Swisher I am deeply moved. Yeah.

Leo Laporte Yeah, it is sad. I have to say, Sun was started by very well meaning people, brilliant technologists…

Kara Swisher The last line could be CEO at fault, but I don’t...

Leo Laporte [Indiscernible] (1:13:55) – good point.

Kara Swisher It works the same.

Leo Laporte Well, that was interesting because Scott McNealy really threw himself on the sword a little bit more than Jonathan did.

Kara Swisher Yeah, well, he shouldn’t have.

Leo Laporte Scott McNealy farewelled gang. When I interviewed many of you for an employment at Sun over the years, one commitment often made was that things will change above, below and around you faster than at any place you’ve ever been. Well, it was never our primary vision to be acquired by Oracle, it’s kind of an understatement, it was always an interesting option. So what do I say to you now that this is happening? And it goes on for many more paragraphs of nostalgia and strange reference to The Eagles, the dress code. It’s quite – yeah, it’s interesting. Did you publish it on your blog?

Kara Swisher Well, John might have, I don’t – probably he did. Yeah, I think he probably did. It was good note, I read it. I did read it. It was good note.

Leo Laporte It was – what I like about it? It would have been very easy for him to write something impersonal and…

Kara Swisher Right, that’s not like him.

Leo Laporte What he really did – no.

Kara Swisher He’s always been a character. He’s always [indiscernible] (1:15:04) posed in an outfit like a superhero outfit. We had him on stage at D a couple of years ago, the very beginning, maybe eight years, long time ago, seven, eight years ago. And he was as usual hysterical, very forthcoming. And at the time it was just starting to really decline, and he was pretty forthright about the situation then. So I found him always to be that way, not that – I don’t know if they could have done anything about it, but they certainly – he certainly didn’t hide from what was happening.

Leo Laporte What did happen?

Kara Swisher Well, I think they got jammed, really pretty much from both sides, I mean from all the different sides.

Leo Laporte Cheap PCs kind of moving up…

Kara Swisher Right.

Leo Laporte …in power so that they could do what the servers from Sun did.

Kara Swisher Yeah, his was the network as a computer that was his famous quote. And he had two.

Leo Laporte And he was right. I never got it until now.

Kara Swisher He was completely right. He had two famous quotes, the network as a computer, and there is no such thing as products you get used to or something like that.

Leo Laporte Get over it, he said.

Kara Swisher Get over it. Yeah.

Leo Laporte Typical Scott McNealy fashion. And by the way both were right.

Kara Swisher He is right, yeah. He definitely was right. And I think they just got jammed. I mean it’s hard to be in that sort of muddy – in any kind of business to be in that muddy meddle is really tough. They probably should have gotten acquired on their terms many years before. There was some possibility of Apple buying it at one point, and IBM. There were all kinds of rumors. I think they definitely were in talks with all these people for many years. And they just didn’t take the opportunity when they should have because they sort of were proud of themselves and thought a lot of themselves. So that always happens.

Leo Laporte Yeah, well, that’s coming back to the discussion that we had earlier about the fact that there’s kind of a natural life cycle to technology companies.

Kara Swisher To some technology companies certainly. Microsoft has been around for a long time considering since the early 80s.

Leo Laporte But it is moving faster.

Kara Swisher Sure.

Leo Laporte It’s accelerating so much that you cannot – it’s very hard because what happened to Microsoft it happens very quickly. It’s happening to Google which is you succeed wildly beyond your wildest dreams, you grow immensely. You suddenly get huge market share and then you find it very difficult to innovate because suddenly it’s all about protecting what you’ve got. And a smarter, younger brighter, hipper company comes along and …

Kara Swisher I always subscribe to the Kenny Rogers school of the world which is – you’ve got to know when to fold it out …

Leo Laporte You got to know when to hold them, know when to fold them…

Kara Swisher Nice…

Leo Laporte Know when to walk away, know when to run. I was a DJ for many years.

Wil Harris Very nice.

Kara Swisher You know what, that is one hell of a song.

Leo Laporte It is.

Kara Swisher It's the best song ever. Kenny.

Leo Laporte Ken says it all, doesn’t he?

Kara Swisher He does, man, I always [indiscernible] (1:17:35), no one does anyway, just saying.

Leo Laporte Let’s see. This is a PCWorld article, it’s a NPD Group that says, I was surprised at this, most e-reader owners are satisfied 93%.

Kara Swisher They like that.

Leo Laporte They love them.

Kara Swisher Well, do you have an e-reader, I don’t yet.

Leo Laporte You don’t?

Kara Swisher I used them. I don’t like the Amazon. I don’t like black-and-white and no touch screen. I am sorry. I am just not going to --

Leo Laporte Yeah, see. That’s why you’re going to love the iPad. What about you, Wil?

Wil Harris Yeah, no. I was tempted by a Kindle.

Leo Laporte You guys are a bunch of [indiscernible] (78:07).

Wil Harris But in the end I held out for an iPad.

Kara Swisher No, I’ve used it. I tried it.

Leo Laporte I read every night on my Kindle. I love my Kindle.

Wil Harris Apparently, the iPad – the iBook Store is not going to launch in the UK alongside the iPad.

Leo Laporte Right.

Kara Swisher Oh, that’s too bad. That’s a nice – it’s beautiful, the scrolling.

Leo Laporte It’s elegant. Although I talked to Philip Ryu who wrote the Classics App on the iPhone, which is exactly, by the way, what the iBook Store book reader looks like.

Kara Swisher Oh, interesting.

Leo Laporte And he said, yeah, nobody ever – he said – I looked – when I saw the announcement, I said maybe I missed an email. He went back through his email saying, did Apple contact me? No.

Kara Swisher No. Well, I don’t know if you can patent…

Leo Laporte You can’t.

Kara Swisher Page turning.

Leo Laporte No. And a wooden bookshelf’s a wooden bookshelf, come on.

Kara Swisher Right, exactly.

Leo Laporte Apple do that. But I think a little tip of the hat, give him a few bucks. Because I mean – it looks exactly – however. Now let me ask you this, Kara. Because you and I have both held the iPad, but you spent a lot more time with it than me. And I guess the one question people have is, is it going to be easy on the eyes? People say no, an LCD, you cannot – it’s not easy on the eyes, you cannot read it for hours. The Kindle, that’s its chief advantage.

Kara Swisher That is an advantage, definitely. The e-ink technology is very easy on the eyes.

Leo Laporte Very solid, yeah.

Kara Swisher It’s definitely easy on the eyes. I don’t know I haven’t used it for nine hours. So I’ll get back to you when I’ve watched a movie. But I’ve used my iPhone, certainly, many, many hours watching – I watched all of Heroes across – going through Europe one time, the first season. So I didn’t have a problem with it. I don’t know.

But I don’t know. Reading is more onerous on your eyes --

Leo Laporte But I love the page turn. I love the aesthetics of it, the little…

Kara Swisher We’ll see. We’ll see. I haven’t used it for enough time to know. I can’t imagine reading nine hours in a row. But I think more games – I think games will be interesting. But I think it’s quite beautiful – the games are quite beautiful that I saw. We’ll see. I don’t know if anyone’s going to use it for that long. I don’t know.

Leo Laporte Well…

Wil Harris Yeah, my suspicion is that it will be easier on the eye for longer than I can sit still and read.

Kara Swisher Right, yeah.

Leo Laporte Well, as Steve Jobs very famously said, and I’m sure he now –

Wil Harris Nobody reads anymore.

Leo Laporte Nobody reads anymore.

Kara Swisher Yeah, he did, he said a lot of things. He said he wasn’t going to do a phone at our conference when we pressed him.

Leo Laporte Right.

Kara Swisher And he said nobody – he didn’t want to deal with cell phone companies. He said, ‘I don’t like going through orifices.’

Leo Laporte Oh, geez. What a great line.

Wil Harris And he also said, ‘nobody wants to watch video on a two-inch screen.’ Then he released the iPod.

Leo Laporte Right.

Kara Swisher Yeah, he said a lot of that.

Leo Laporte You had, Kara, you had a great interview with Bill and Steve together. That was just wonderful.

Wil Harris That was awesome.

Kara Swisher Yes. Indeed. Yeah. We were lucky.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I mean that was a moment. And you handled it quite well, I mean you really…

Kara Swisher Thank you.

Leo Laporte That’s a potential minefield.

Kara Swisher Well, we talked to them before because we wanted it to be bigger. We wanted them not to have – not to be – I mean although a catfight would have been very entertaining for people. And I think there’s definitely tensions between them. But I think that they – we wanted them to be at a higher level. We thought it was important for historical purposes and because they hadn’t been together in almost any interviews ever to really talk about the big ticket item.

Leo Laporte No, I loved it. And there was a great bit of nostalgia, talking –

Kara Swisher Yes, very touching.

Leo Laporte I really enjoyed that.

Kara Swisher And my favorite line was when I said, is there a secret that people don’t know about the two of you? And Steve Jobs said, ‘well, Bill and I have been married for many years.’ And Bill Gates’ face, he didn’t know it was coming, like turned, like ah!

Leo Laporte They’re both – you know what, look. They’re both smart guys, they’re very successful. They have a good sense of humor sometimes.

Kara Swisher Well, not all the time.

Leo Laporte Not always, once in a while. You got them in a nice, relaxed state, which really worked well.

Kara Swisher We tried before, because Steve Jobs has said some somewhat negative things about – someone asked why – I think Walt had an interview with him before, our big interview, saying why do people use the iTunes on Windows? Why is it the most popular app? And Steve Jobs couldn’t resist himself, and he said, ‘well, if you gave someone ice water in hell, they’d be happy too.

And Bill Gates was sitting in the front row, and I was like, oh no, like all of us, the PR person for Apple, we’re like, oh, that’s the end of that. Our interview’s going to be ugly. And definitely Gates was not happy about that quote for sure.

Leo Laporte Oh, Steve said, the problem with Bill Gates, he has no taste.

Kara Swisher Right, well, yeah. He said that. So he does that also. He likes to tweak. He’s sort of like that kid in school that likes to tweak the other kids, you know?

Wil Harris But then Jobs isn’t [indiscernible] (82:28) when you look back at, it’s something like the iPod Hi-Fi.

Leo Laporte Oh, god.

Wil Harris And Jobs saying, oh, I’ve replaced my [indiscernible] (82:36)

Leo Laporte I don’t know, I replaced --

Wil Harris For me, that was such a crock, wasn’t it?

Kara Swisher I know…

Leo Laporte I hope he didn’t replace his Hi-Fi with that, because --

Wil Harris Yeah.

Kara Swisher Tricky dude, he’s a very tricky dude, good and bad.

Leo Laporte He’s a brilliant marketer. He’s a brilliant businessman. He has great taste. There’s no doubt about it. One last story.

Kara Swisher Sure.

Leo Laporte The Olympics are coming up, the 2010 Olympics in Vancouver, the Winter Olympics. And a number of athletes have said, ‘I’m not going to be able to Tweet because it’s against the rules here.’ An article in Wired Magazine says American skier Lindsey Vonn, one of the potential stars of the 2010 Winter Olympics told her 35,000 Twitter followers she would not be Tweeting.

Kara Swisher No.

Leo Laporte There is in fact no Olympic rule that sets up a blackout period. They are allowed to Tweet. They’re just not allowed to act as journalists, apparently. So they can’t say like, ‘the results are in from the hockey game and it was 3-2.’

Kara Swisher Why? Why?

Leo Laporte That’s a good question. [Ph] and equated (83:31)

Kara Swisher That’s ridiculous. There should be tons of Tweeting. I can’t imagine [indiscernible] (83:36).

Leo Laporte Yeah, why wouldn’t you? And let her tweet the results.

Kara Swisher Or whatever, not just Tweeting, but putting stuff on Facebook – they’re going to do pictures. There’s going to be like a ridiculous flood vomiting of information.

Leo Laporte Well, that’s what one of the Olympic guys said, ‘this is going to be the Twitter Olympics.’ But they did publish a four-page document, the IOC Blogging Guidelines for persons at the XXI Olympic Winter Games and defines a blog, personal information, no sound or moving images of the game.

Kara Swisher Oh, my God, light me, Jesus.

Leo Laporte Yeah, light me. That’s a good word.

Kara Swisher Come on. It’s already – what if someone uses like a little flip-camera when [indiscernible] (1:24:13) behind the scene.

Leo Laporte No you can’t because they have sold those rights to Pepsi Cola, you can’t.

Kara Swisher Yeah, but if some skiers behind the scenes when they go down the slope and they go, hey, I am go down the slope, [ph] wish me luck (1:24:22).

Leo Laporte Well, that reminds me of our discussion about which is that the people are still not getting in it, it’s amazing.

Kara Swisher Well, NBC what can we say.

Leo Laporte Kara, it’s been so great. I hope you will come back, I hope we haven’t…

Kara Swisher Anytime, anytime.

Leo Laporte Yeah, bring your dogs, bring your kids, you are always welcome.

Kara Swisher I know I love the dog. The dog is much more intelligent.

Leo Laporte No, really fun.

Kara Swisher Actually, no, my kids are much more intelligent about technology than I am.

Leo Laporte Well it’s good to have kids because besides the fact that you can now go to Disney movies again, you do get to [indiscernible] (1:24:51).

Kara Swisher Oh, thank you so much for that.

Leo Laporte How many times have you seen Up now?

Kara Swisher You know what, there is a, I was at, I went to see the Nutcracker [indiscernible] (1:25:00).

Leo Laporte Oh, that’s fun.

Kara Swisher People did for the 109 time and this woman in front of me got up and said to the person sitting next to her and she said one more nutcracker closer to death.

Leo Laporte We have, we have a nutcracker in San Francisco called The Hard Nut and that’s the one you should go see.

Kara Swisher I go to the gay one.

Leo Laporte Yeah, that’s a good one too.

Kara Swisher Yeah, that --

Leo Laporte That’s a lot more fun.

Kara Swisher It’s still.

Leo Laporte Is that the Ballets Trockadero, who does that one?

Kara Swisher Yes, I don’t know, one of the groups, I can’t remember. We went to that one, the drag one, the drag one.

Leo Laporte The drag one, you can’t go wrong with a guy in size 12 [ph] pumps (1:25:34).

Kara Swisher You know they had it interestingly during my iPhone – the iPad launch that’s where they had it and I was like, oh this is where I went to the drag nutcracker recently.

Leo Laporte That’s right. It was the Yerba Buena Center for the Arts, that’s right. Yeah, AllThingsD go to and it’s all aggregated there.

Kara Swisher There’s Jason, [ph] calling bye (1:25:54).

Leo Laporte There he is iPod prankster. Jason Calacinis talks about tweets.

Leo Laporte Thank you, Kara. We really appreciate you being here.

Kara Swisher No problem, thank you so much.

Leo Laporte Wil Harris always a pleasure. I had to bring a Brit on because we knew you wouldn’t care about that. What do you call it, handegg?

Wil Harris Yeah, it’s not big on my list of priorities.

Leo Laporte Handegg, the big handegg Super Bowl is tonight, but who cares about that.

Wil Harris Go to Colts.

Leo Laporte Oh, at least he knows his plan.

Kara Swisher Go Colts. Are you for the Colts, really not the New Orleans?

Leo Laporte How can you be [indiscernible] (1:26:24).

Kara Swisher I don’t even know…

Wil Harris I don’t know. I have no idea – Colts.

Kara Swisher Exactly

Leo Laporte Wil, all you have to do is to go ‘who dat’ and you will be --

Wil Harris Who dat.

Leo Laporte Who dat which the NFL by the way says we own.

Kara Swisher That’s just, you know what, that was just wrong. Do that again because that was just wrong when you did that.

Leo Laporte Do it again, Wil?

Wil Harris Who dat.

Kara Swisher That was just wrong, I like it. Let’s make fun of the British people.

Wil Harris Thank you, I love [indiscernible] (1:26:49).

Kara Swisher The next segment.

Leo Laporte You really want to see a good nutcracker, go to England. Wil is at where you can watch TV on the Internet. It’s an amazing…

Wil Harris

Leo Laporte Oh, I forgot, I should say the Twitter, with one ‘L’ with two ‘Rs’ and Kara is on Twitter as well as at Kara Swisher. Thank you guys, I appreciate it. Thank you all for being here, don’t forget the Macworld Expo is coming up this week in San Francisco. I will be there giving the Macworld Live keynote and we are bringing in some of my friends.

There is going to be lot of fun including Adam Savage of the MythBusters; Roger McGuinn the founder of the Byrds, a great folk artist [ph] who will play (1:27:31) Heather Gold, the comic, will perform her classic Macs are Christians and the Windows is the pagans. I can’t remember what it is, but it’s a classic.

Kara Swisher She is funny, she is funny.

Leo Laporte Oh she is cool – we love Heather and actually…

Wil Harris Leo, if we wanted to watch you live keynoting when --

Leo Laporte Right here, it will be 2 PM Pacific at But for you people that is I believe 2100 UTC, British Standard Time.

Kara Swisher Our John Paczkowski will be there to cover.

Wil Harris 2 PM is 10.

Leo Laporte Wil, who will?

Kara Swisher John [indiscernible] (1:28:01) Paczkowski.

Leo Laporte We will get Paczkowski up on the stage. Kiki Stockhammer will perform as well.

Kara Swisher He has got great, great eyebrows.

Leo Laporte I will seek him out for his eyebrows.

Kara Swisher Look at the picture on the website, that’s why I hired him essentially.

Leo Laporte When a guy’s got great eyebrows, who the heck cares what else he has got.

Kara Swisher I hired Peter for his grimace and I hired John for his eyebrows.

Leo Laporte Wow.

Kara Swisher That’s how I do things here.

Leo Laporte Peter’s no shabby in the eyebrow department either.

Kara Swisher He has got good eyebrows too. He has a requirement for working on this website.

Leo Laporte Apparently.

Kara Swisher You got to look at, [indiscernible] (1:28:38) look like we’re really watching you…

Leo Laporte We got our eyes on you. and also Kiki Stockhammer who was the demo goddess for the Amiga video toaster for so many years and she has got a great rock band called Warp 11, they are Star Trek rock band. They are going to be doing that. Yeah, it’s February 12, 2 PM Pacific, Moscone Center, North Hall, Room 134. And then after that at 5:30 it’s our TWiT meet up at The View 439 the Marriott Marquis that’s 5:30 to 8.

Kara Swisher Wow. That’s a nice place too.

Leo Laporte Yeah, oh yeah, we only have the best venues.

Kara Swisher I swear.

Leo Laporte So that will be fun, come by and say hi. I will be there. And all the TWiT folks will be there. I guess that’s all the plugging I have. Watch the show every Sunday. We normally do at 3:15 Pacific, 6:15 Eastern time. We did a little earlier today because there was some game on. And you can also of course subscribe on iTunes, the Zunes, they are everywhere, just go to you’ll find all about it. I am Leo Laporte. Thanks for joining us, another TWiT is across the goal lines.


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