TWiT 237/Transcript

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Episode 237


This transcript is provided by our friends at Pods in Print

Leo Laporte Audio bandwidth for this WEEK in TECH is provided by AOL Music and, where you can get free MP3s, exclusive interviews and more. Video bandwidth for TWiT is provided by Cachefly at

This is TWiT, this WEEK in TECH, episode 237 for March 01, 2010: Master Iterator.

This WEEK in TECH is brought to you by GoToMeeting, do more and travel less with GoToMeeting. Make your next meeting a GoToMeeting instead. For your free 30-day trial visit; and by Sign up for the Platinum Plan and get two free books. Go to and follow Audible on Twitter, user ID, audible_com; and by, the fast and easy way to publish a high quality website or blog. For a free trial and 10% off your new account, go to

It’s time for TWiT, this WEEK in TECH, the show that covers the week’s tech news with the unusual iconoclastic panel of tech pundits starting with our good buddy, Jason Calacanis from, hello, hello, hello.

Jason Calacanis Mahalo, thank you for having me. It’s been wonderful.

Leo Laporte Mahalo Shalom for Purim.

Jason Calacanis Hello, I am here, I am ready to do the show.

Leo Laporte We are all wearing funny hats, but they are really just head-sets for the Skype.

Jason Calacanis Delicious/twit/237, I am ready.

Leo Laporte This is it baby, you got the story.

Jason Calacanis I am ready, set to go.

Leo Laporte Let’s see also with us besides Jason we got the great Dwight Silverman from the Chronicle, Houston Chronicle at

Dwight Silverman Hello Leo, how are you today?

Leo Laporte Hey Dwight, Dwight was a little sad.

Dwight Silverman I feel so much better than the last time I was on your show. I was like sick.

Leo Laporte Oh yeah.

Dwight Silverman And I was just kind of leaning in the corner but I am ready for bear, watch out Calacanis.

Leo Laporte And Jason is the bear.

Jason Calacanis Wait a second; did Dwight just say he’s smoking chronic?

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Jason Calacanis Oh no he’s from the Chronicle.

Leo Laporte He is on the Chronicle. Hey here is a face we haven’t seen in a long time, Brett Larson, my old friend. He did was at Macro Magazine when he did a regular feature on TechTV on my Call For Help show. Then when TechTV went kablooey, he went to New York where he has been working at Fox 5 for what five years?

Brett Larson Several years now, several years.

Leo Laporte And then…

Brett Larson I was there for two – I was at CBS before that.

Leo Laporte CBS right. You went to CBS, then 5 and now he is wandering around as we say in the business on the beach.

Brett Larson Yes.

Leo Laporte On the beach. But I got a job for you, Brett and we’re going to talk a little later. I got an idea for Mr. Larson over here. I have sumthin’ – I have sumthin’ Brett could do.

Jason Calacanis Emmy Award winning Brett Larson.

Brett Larson That is correct.

Leo Laporte Nice hat.

Brett Larson I#m jealous of the green hat.

Leo Laporte With wings! What the hell?

Brett Larson [ph] Like – is that a curse (03:24) or something?

Leo Laporte I don’t know. What are you wearing that hat for? Oh, it’s Purim, what am I saying?

Dwight Silverman I have no funny hats within reach.

Brett Larson This is so unfair, I don’t even have a hat for the snowstorms that we just had.

Leo Laporte Yeah, you guys are, you guys are out there in the cold…

Jason Calacanis This hat is related to a website that’s outside the United States, whoever guesses it first on the chat room.

Leo Laporte Okay, it’s got wings, it’s kind of a green canvas hat.

Jason Calacanis Somebody will get it.

Leo Laporte It’s got a red ribbon, orange ribbon across the front.

Jason Calacanis Somebody will get this because of the wings. It’s a website outside of the United States.

Leo Laporte FTD, somebody says the FTD.

Jason Calacanis Nope.

Leo Laporte Is it an angel investor hat?

Jason Calacanis Hi…

Leo Laporte Hey…

Brett Larson Leo I like your hat personally.

Jason Calacanis It’s web company in Asia.

Leo Laporte Asian web company.

Jason Calacanis One of the top twenty.

Brett Larson That narrows it down.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Hermes.

Jason Calacanis Top twenty websites.

Leo Laporte

Jason Calacanis It’s Hermes, yeah.

Leo Laporte Now my hat is what they call a Jayne hat and it’s made – it was knitted for me by Kat of Jayne was a character in the TV show, Firefly, remember he was the big tough guy and his mother sent him this hat and he was so scary and tough that of course all of his friends when he put this silly hat on said, oh it suits you, looks good Jayne, looks good.

Hey, here’s the story of the week; a rumor flying because of a stray random tweet from Alex Payne, one of the founders of Twitter. MG Siegler spotted the tweet which said and I quote, ‘If you had some of the nifty site features that we Twitter employees have you might not want to use a desktop client, you will soon.’ Lot of speculation on that. Dwight now, you just told me about Echo Phone which is a new desktop client from the folks who do the Mac or the iPhone app, Echo Phone.

Dwight Silverman Yeah, it is a – it’s been around for a little while. It’s in beta right now; it’s free. It – I have been using Tweetie on the Mac which is kind of – got to be the gold standard for Twitter desktop clients on the Mackintosh platform but Tweetie hasn’t been kept up in terms of features. It doesn’t support lists, it has – it just hasn’t kept up with what Twitter is able to offer it and so Echo Phone is available as a free download while it’s in beta and it does lists. It has a cool drawer that kind of slides out and shows you additional information if you want it. It loads very quickly and it’s very simple in terms of its interface. Jason called it elegant, I agree with that, it’s really nice.

Leo Laporte Yeah, they’re very popular iPhone app, Echo Phone is.

Dwight Silverman Well it’s because they have a free one that is fairly well-featured and there’s also a pay one that does more, but the free one has a lot of features and so it gets used by a lot of folks who don’t want to pay.

Leo Laporte I use Brizzly which is web-based and I think that's probably one of the companies that might be threatened by what Alex said. I also use Hootsuite that's what you were saying you liked Jason, right? And…

Jason Calacanis Yes, and I have inside information on the Twitter issue.

Leo Laporte Oh? Let’s hear it.

Jason Calacanis I always try to break some news on the program, so I had dinner with Evan Williams last month at the TED Conference.

Leo Laporte Was that at that Edge dinner, man. That looked like…

Jason Calacanis I was at the Edge Dinner.

Leo Laporte …a party, holy cow!

Jason Calacanis There were 50 people at this dinner, I was the fifty first person. I basically got to put my left foot in the room for about 30 seconds. It was like Bill Gates, Larry and Sergey, Ev Williams and…

Leo Laporte Everybody.

Jason Calacanis And people like Daniel Dennett and Sam Harris and all these incredible authors who are his clients.

Leo Laporte Amazing.

Jason Calacanis Yeah, he is my book agent even though I haven’t written a book, but I get offers from him.

Leo Laporte So, wait a minute, so he didn’t invite you to the dinner, he let you stick your….

Jason Calacanis No he did, he did, he did. I am sort of joking to be facetious that I did not belong at this dinner but…

Leo Laporte No kidding, I would have been tongue tied with those people.

Jason Calacanis Well what happens is I walk in, and it’s like I am sitting next to Matt Groening from the Simpson’s fame and so I’ve met him a couple of times and really nice guy and I got Daniel Dennett to my right and Sam Harris at the table and Jeff Bezos and this crazy like discussion away on and on…

Leo Laporte Were the conversations good or were the people so different and different…

Jason Calacanis Yeah, no, no it was incredible, because what happens is at a thing like this everybody is so brilliant except for me that you just, it doesn’t end; everybody has something to contribute so these conversations just they flutter between all kinds of different topics.

Leo Laporte Right, amazing, I would love to be there for that, boy.

Jason Calacanis I will get you in next year.

Leo Laporte Now, let me ask you about that because you are, are you persona non grata at TED. What do you do, you played poker there.

Jason Calacanis Well here’s what happened, there was a guy who ran, I have never told this story before, so this is another TWiT exclusive. There was a guy named Richard Saul Wurman who ran TED originally.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I know Richard pretty well, in fact when he started TED I used to have him on my radio show. He did the access guides; he was all about UI design, smart guy.

Jason Calacanis Very brilliant guy.

Leo Laporte Loved him.

Jason Calacanis And he’s a total curmudgeon.

Leo Laporte Very much like Dvorak kind of he’s just…

Jason Calacanis Dvorak, Jeff Jarvis, grargh! So anyway, here’s what happens. Brockman this is, I am talking like 10 years ago, I am 26 years old, 27 years old. In the late 90’s Brockman invites me to his dinner. This is when they were doing it in Monterey. So I say okay I will come to the dinner. They call it the billionaire’s dinner because – whatever and only 50 people get to go to this out of the 2,000 people who go to TED. So now you know all the controversy about how exclusionary TED is. Now imagine having a dinner for 2% of the people at TED. Now you get an idea of what this ticket’s like.

Leo Laporte Even Robert Scoble wasn’t there.

Jason Calacanis Robert’s, they wouldn’t let Robert Scoble within five blocks of this dinner, forget it. If Robert Scoble was the bus boy they wouldn’t let him bring in the bread.

Leo Laporte Right, get out of here.

Jason Calacanis Literally. Anyway, so I go to that thing. Richard Saul Wurman finds out that I am going to go to this dinner and he goes on [ph] Tilt (09:25) and he starts telling everybody that I’m crashing TED.

Leo Laporte Because the dinner isn’t TED, but it piggybacks on TED.

Jason Calacanis It’s not TED. It’s – John Brockman is the most famous agent and brilliant guy and he has all of his, all the great authors in the world of science like Jared Diamond and all these people, they’re his – he’s their agent and he basically he gets all these [ph] books done (09:48) and, anyway all the tech people and the scientists and literati and digirati all sort of get together at his salons. Long story short, he basically starts telling everybody I am crashing, so I confront them on it and he’s like you are never going to TED, ever and I said okay, FU, I will never go to TED but I will come to the dinner. Then Chris Anderson starts running TED. Now Chris Anderson…

Leo Laporte He took it over from Saul.

Jason Calacanis He took it over.

Leo Laporte Okay.

Jason Calacanis So Richard Saul Wurman. But Chris Anderson was a video game publisher, right. He was just he had these like video game magazines and then he all of a sudden he became…

Leo Laporte Really?

Jason Calacanis Yeah, he had this publishing company, Future Publishing or something I don’t know.

Leo Laporte Oh, he was Future, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah okay.

Jason Calacanis A publishing company that did all these video games. So then he asked me for this advice [ph] on the weblog, like (10:31) how would you do a blog, because TED had no websites. So I go to dinner with him, I explain everything and then I’m like hey I would love to go and he’s like oh totally go to the website on this day and buy a ticket. I’m like well I would like to go this year, he’s like ah I can’t make it happen but go to the website on this day, the day of TED and you can buy it for next year.

Leo Laporte $6000 ticket by the way.

Jason Calacanis Well this is back when it was four. So you know what, I’ll bite the bullet. I have the cash to do it now. Screw it; I got to redeem myself. New group of people I go to the website the day, the morning 6, 7 o’clock in the morning I go to the website it says sold out.

Leo Laporte Already. It sells out a year ahead of time.

Jason Calacanis So I’m like – so I e-mail him, I’m like hey, I tried to sign up he’s like call me in three months. I’m like okay, I set my calendar, I e-mail him in three months. He’s like call me in three months, and I e-mail him again, he’s like oh sign up on this day for next year. So I’m like okay, so I had my system do that and again I can’t get in. So now I’m being jerked around.

Leo Laporte Oh, boy.

Jason Calacanis And I helped the guy out and I was nice to him and I gave him a bunch of advice. So finally I said you know what, screw this I am not going to be his donkey and beg him. So I tell all the people who work for him who want to come to TechCrunch50 I let them come, I give them comp tickets and they’re like ‘oh, thank you for the ticket’, I’m like’ yeah’, they’re like ‘oh, are you coming to TED?’ I’m like ‘I would never go to TED in my life’, they’re like ‘why?’, I’m like ‘because you guys treat me like a jerkoff and I’m not a jerkoff, and I am not going to sit here and be treated like a jerkoff.’ And they are like ‘what?’ and I’m like ‘yeah, I’ll never go.’

And so now I go, I had a poker game. I took $1200 off of some guy who goes to TED. So and now I’m positive $7,200 [ph] because I didn’t have to buy a ticket. (11:56) And so now I’m really persona non grata because I hosted a poker game in the lobby of TED and the big secret is, go to the lobby of the two or three hotels there, have a drink at night, you’ll meet everybody at TED. You don’t have to buy a $6,000 ticket, just lobby crash and if Jason’s lobby crashing, and I am a player, you can lobby crash. There’s no shame in it.

Leo Laporte Well, that’s what I’m going to do next year.

Jason Calacanis Totally. Come down and you can interview people. It’s like no big deal. It’s in Long Beach and everybody has dinners. We should just do a total like not-invited group.

Leo Laporte To me the Edge Dinner was much more interesting than what was going on at TED. And so you – okay. We are going to take a break, but you talked to Ev.

Jason Calacanis I talked to Ev and he gave me the straight dough…

Leo Laporte We are going to get the straight dough.

Jason Calacanis Yes.

Leo Laporte What’s happening at Twitter? Like I care.

Jason Calacanis No, you care about this.

Leo Laporte Oh I do.

Jason Calacanis When we come back.

Leo Laporte When we come back after this word from the folks at Citrix, the makers of the great GoToMeeting product. See this would be another way you could have a TED conference, just keep your butt in your chair, put GoToMeeting on your system and then have a meeting and anybody can see it and in fact there’s a GoTo – they have a GoTo – what is it GoToWebinar which is where you can have lots of people see, I mean these guys really know remote access, Citrix. Of course, you’ve heard the name. They do the enterprise grade remote access. They are the ones who licensed remote access to Microsoft for their own remote product. They do GoToMyPC, they do GoToAssist and GoToMeeting, this is the one for meetings.

The problem with the meeting is, it’s expensive, the business travel. If you don’t…

Jason Calacanis Oh! Delays. Security.

Leo Laporte It’s a pain in the butt; it’s just not worth it. Or you can have conference calls but then they are not visual and people are bored and you know what they are doing, they’re answering – they are tweeting. While you’re talking they are tweeting.

Brett Larson They have got their BlackBerrys in their hands.

Leo Laporte Typing away, you could tell. You’ve – we’ve been on that conference call where the guy – he’s clearly drifted off and then suddenly – yeah, it’s like he is not there. So what you got to do is engage him. You’ve got to give them something visual to look at and this is where GoToMeeting is so cool. You can install it right now free for 30 days.

It take you before I’m done talking you’ll have it installed it’s that fast. No cost to you. Now the next time you are on that call, you say – you’re probably getting bored let me send you the – go to, he goes there. You say click the Join a Meeting button. He does that. You give him the meeting ID, now suddenly he’s seeing your computer. He’s seeing your desktop. He’s saying oh that’s nice wallpaper. Yeah that’s my kids.

Let me show you the PowerPoint. And he’s seeing the PowerPoint, he suddenly is very engaged. He’s – and then you could say, hey, you want to work on this spreadsheet, I’ve got the numbers; what do you think here? And suddenly you can give him control of the control. He can – it is truly revolutionary. It is the best way to have a meeting.

Jason Calacanis I do it three or four times a week. Mahalo Sales Calls, we do it like this. People from New York, people from San Francisco, it just works. I mean, the thing is I think people tried these kind of services, Leo like four or five years ago, and the screen flickered and maybe it didn’t work.

Leo Laporte It was awful. Yeah.

Jason Calacanis It was problematic. Let’s be honest, five years ago, this technology was not ready for Prime Time, now.

Leo Laporte Just like us. Just like streaming.

Jason Calacanis Absolutely. And now it’s flawless.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Jason Calacanis It really is flawless and the webinar thing is really incredible. I mean, you can get a lot of people on these things now. So if you want to have a conference, Susan and I’ve been thinking about doing it for my show. This Week In Startups is doing a webinar charging people like $20 to do like, hey, everybody come in and this is a webinar for 100 people.

Leo Laporte I got an idea for you. I got an idea. If I – I’ve been meaning to write to you, we want to do kind of like an angel investing meeting where people come in and they pitch using GoToMeeting; they are pitching a business plan and we let the audience invest, and vote who’s best and everybody can put in a buck or whatever, we create a little consortium of listeners who put some money. Wouldn’t that be fun?

Brett Larson That is an awesome idea.

Jason Calacanis Micro finance.

Leo Laporte Can we get GoToMeeting [ph] to kick some in? (15:31)

Brett Larson Yeah. Bring your idea to table, pitch it to the people.

Leo Laporte Exactly.

Brett Larson It’s like American Idol for your start-up companies.

Leo Laporte Isn’t it a good idea? Great [indiscernible] (15:40)

Dwight Silverman It is a reality show.

Leo Laporte It is. It is a reality show.

Jason Calacanis So brilliant. And GoToWebinar will be the perfect platform.

Leo Laporte I’ll send you an email, because Greg Martin, one of our sales guys came up with this and he really wants to do it. I think he’s – and this is just a natural for these guys at Citrix, they would I’m sure love to sponsor.

Brett Larson I want to be the Simon Cowell.

Leo Laporte You would be it.

Brett Larson That’s the stupidest idea I’ve ever heard.

Leo Laporte Who’s taking Simon Cowell’s place?

Jason Calacanis Dvorak?

Dwight Silverman I think Howard Stern is.

Leo Laporte Howard Stern supposedly is.

Jason Calacanis It would be a $100 million deal.

Leo Laporte Well, it’s worth it.

Brett Larson Because it’s the only show that can afford him. Serious can’t – fork over that kind of cash.

Leo Laporte But can Howard Stern do a mainstream TV show without a Symbian or a porn star or something going on in the background?

Jason Calacanis I think he would do fine. Because you know what, he is an intelligent guy.

Leo Laporte He’s a smart guy.

Jason Calacanis And he does all that other smarmy stuff just to…

Brett Larson He is the type of person that is going to say whatever he feels. If you come out there and you belt out a tune which sucks, he’s going to say…

Leo Laporte Well that’s what you need.

Brett Larson It’s the worst thing I’ve ever heard.

Leo Laporte So say, “Darling, darling – come here. You suck, you suck. You’re terrible go home.”

Jason Calacanis And with Webinar? Just to bring it back around, with GoToMeeting he wouldn’t have to leave New York.

Leo Laporte He could do it from his home.

Dwight Silverman So you’d look at that?

Jason Calacanis Just put a nice 27 inch Apple cinema display right there in the…

Leo Laporte Darling you’re beautiful, how did you get so beautiful? Your waist is so…

Brett Larson Pull your skirt up.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Hoick it up. All right. So what did Ev – that was it, that’s the ad., try it right now.

Jason Calacanis That’s about three ads. GoToMetting should pay.

Leo Laporte Should pay three times.

Jason Calacanis Well this week we gave them about three ads.

Leo Laporte I know. That’s what I had to tell you. So you’re talking to Ev?

Jason Calacanis Yeah. So I talk to Ev about this issue and he is a little frustrated that he – he is frustrated that he can’t have a soup to nuts experience where people have a Twitter client on the iPhone.

Leo Laporte That’s bad because it was the API that put Twitter on the map, the fact that third-party applications exist.

Jason Calacanis And he knows that, he knows that. However, now Twitter is going to mass adoption and your mom is confused or maybe not your mom but…

Leo Laporte You’ve heard from my mom. You know my mom.

Jason Calacanis I know. We’re going to get her online.

Leo Laporte Mom.

Jason Calacanis She just wants to – they just want to have a basic Twitter application for Android, for iPhone, for BlackBerry that has the basic features, that is brain-dead simple on the website and he is basically considering doing it and then what you would have to say to the people which he’s had to do already with things like lists and things like the group, the tweeting, etcetera. You have to move up the stack and provide more value. So he is not going to make a multi-user Twitter client but I guarantee you he will have a Twitter client this year on every platform named the Twitter client. So right now he told me the problem is you search for Twitter in the iTunes store and it’s a bad user experience because which one do you use.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jason Calacanis There should be an official one that is easy to use. Now that one doesn’t have to have the feature set of Hootsuite or Seesmic or TweetDeck or the other leading ones that are out there and it certainly won’t. And in fact they don’t want that. They want the simple, basic one.

Leo Laporte Have you seen Seesmic Look?

Jason Calacanis I have.

Leo Laporte Oh, I love – it’s gorgeous.

Jason Calacanis Seesmic is – I have to tell you Loic asked me to invest in his company when it was the threaded comments. And I said you know what? The people who are in the comments or on blogs are ugly people. They’re never going to turn their video cameras on.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jason Calacanis They’re not good-looking people. These are trolls.

Leo Laporte And you’re right. Seesmic – the video thing just died.

Jason Calacanis Yeah, however I did make a mistake because you should bet the horse, not whatever the race and he – I know he’s a great entrepreneur and he…

Leo Laporte Wait say that again, you should bet the horse, not the race.

Jason Calacanis Yeah, so like you want – the horse might not win in this race but he will win a race at some point. Like I’d rather own the horse than just bet on the horse for this race.

Leo Laporte Got it.

Jason Calacanis And so as an investor I should have bet on him, not the race he was in with the video comments because even if he loses that race, which I knew he would, he wasn’t aware that he would but that’s part of being an entrepreneur is you got to bang your head against the wall. And he banged his head against the wall. He tried for two years and then he bought that Twitterrific. Was it Twitterrific he bought and then rebranded?

Leo Laporte No, no, no, I can’t remember.

Dwight Silverman Twhirl, he bought Twhirl.

Leo Laporte Twhirl, that’s what he bought, yeah.

Jason Calacanis He bought Twhirl and rebranded it and god bless him, he makes I think the best client out there.

Leo Laporte I don’t know if he makes any money on it. I don’t know exactly where the business model is.

Jason Calacanis He is basically – he’s good friends with Evan, I would say 60, 70% chance Seesmic gets bought by Twitter. They’ll buy the leading one of these things.

Leo Laporte Well, that’s what made me think, if they’re going to do a desktop app they should do Look, I mean this is beautiful and…

Dwight Silverman It’s beautiful but it’s…

Brett Larson It is nice looking, yeah.

Dwight Silverman After you use it for a while, it gets a little frustrating to use. I think even if you are a noob, if you poke around in there, it’s kind of confusing as to what’s happening where.

Leo Laporte I thought it’s using Windows Presentation Foundation WPF. I thought it was gorgeous and I just thought well it’s not for me because I am a power user but for my mom it might be good, but you don’t think so?

Dwight Silverman I think that what it does is it pushes you towards kind of the suggested users.

Leo Laporte Right.

Dwight Silverman You know, when you first fire it up and you go in it, it’s got these channels it wants you to use…

Leo Laporte It’s a broadcast.

Dwight Silverman It’s almost difficult to get to your friends and your timeline. It’s like a different thing than a traditional Twitter client but you know if they are interested in having their own Twitter client and they were to end up buying something like a Seesmic, Twhirl which they stopped development on, now that they are doing the Seesmic client stuff. It would be really interesting to rebrand Twhirl as the Twitter client…

Leo Laporte Right.

Dwight Silverman …and just keep it as simple as it is.

Leo Laporte Is it easier to monetize Twitter if you hold the client? I guess it is.

Dwight Silverman Well, if you are doing ads or if you are charging for the client but there – if you are having a client where you don’t pay for it and you are not putting adds on it, you enter the same problem that Twitter has.

Leo Laporte Right.

Dwight Silverman And if some – if they do a really simple app and they have the competition of things like Echophone which is very easy to use and you don’t have to be a genius to use Echophone. Why would anybody use something that doesn’t have as many features as something like Echophone when they can use that?

Jason Calacanis Well, here’s this coming. I actually know what’s coming. There is going to be a – there’s two things that are coming. One is there will be in-stream advertising. So it doesn’t matter what client you use.

Leo Laporte That’s important because otherwise you can completely defeat it.

Jason Calacanis Right. So every fifth or 20th or 200th, maybe let’s call it every 200th tweet will be an ad in your tweet screen and it will be based on what people are talking about in your tweet stream.

Leo Laporte That’s smart.

Jason Calacanis So let’s say…

Brett Larson Very smart. Will it be location aware so it’ll know to only send me stuff that’s around me?

Jason Calacanis Of course, of course it will. And so what you are going to have is Leo and I are talking on Twitter and we both are at south by southwest and it’s like, here is an ad for Dell computer’s party in south by southwest , or bad example, but it will know that we both have Android phones or whatever and give us an Android ad.

Dwight Silverman Can you pay to not see the ads?

Jason Calacanis I don’t think they are going to have that option.

Brett Larson Mmm; freemiums.

Dwight Silverman Freemium, right.

Leo Laporte I’d love that. I think with Buzz here, if Twitter does that, there is a group of us not certainly the mainstream, not the millions who – what is it? Fifty – what did they just say, it was 500 million tweets a day or something, ridiculous number.

Jason Calacanis Yeah.

Leo Laporte I mean those people aren’t going anywhere but I’m going to go to Buzz , in fact I’m kind of mostly on Buzz already.

Jason Calacanis Well, the thing that’s going to happen is you will – you say that now but when you see one ad out of – just like I mean do you block your ads when you do Google searches?

Leo Laporte No, in fact I see Google ads all the time in my Gmail and everywhere.

Jason Calacanis Right. So I mean you are complaining but you are not going to go anywhere if it’s modest.

Dwight Silverman Yeah but it’s not in your stream, it’s not right there in your face.

Leo Laporte That’s what I don’t like, because it’s part of the editorial. It’s essentially part of the editorial.

Jason Calacanis It will be clearly labeled when you go to Engadget and you page down, you will see a medium rectangle ad; every blog has that. And it’s in the content stream and we just get an ad for GoToMeeting in the stream.

Leo Laporte Is your experience as a blogger Jason in the past that that’s – those are the ads that work, not the side bars, but the ones that are really in the content?

Jason Calacanis Okay, here is what happens. If you – if you make a beautiful graphic ad on the top, a leaderboard and on the side a medium rectangle, those things can capture people in the general audience. But for sophisticated users, putting an ad within the content column will – if it’s – if it’s a content based ad, like if it’s text and it has good clickable links in it, that will work better.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jason Calacanis So you have to know which ones to use. Beautiful graphic ones in the top and the side and content rich ones in the middle.

Leo Laporte Cleavage apparently according to Jakob Nielsen.

Jason Calacanis That’s if you want to get click through, but you’re trying to get – sell things like messages. But anyway, so the point is…

Leo Laporte Isn’t this funny, I mean this is ridiculous, it’s just so obvious but it’s – it actually works.

Jason Calacanis And the clients – the clients will then have the ability to sell their inventory on the top. So the top tweet on your deck could rotate and be from a specific person. So that’s what you’re going to see.

Brett Larson But see, here is my thing with advertise – I got to say that Facebook ads are starting to get more specific to the point where I’m actually paying attention to them. So clearly they – they’re skimming my profile to know how old I am, where I live and I’m assuming they’re reading the messages that I send back and forth. But, it makes the advertising more effective I think. If I’m looking at it, that means it’s better. So if they are going to read my tweets…

Dwight Silverman The ads on Facebook are just, are – I mean, the way they use the context and your demographics are really ham-handed. I keep seeing ads – I’m 53, I keep seeing ads that say, ‘53-year-old men wanted to test an ipad’.

Leo Laporte Me too; I get that ad too!

Brett Larson That’s ridiculous.

Leo Laporte And I’m 53 too. I just thought everybody got that ad.

Dwight Silverman So I immediately click that button and go ‘don’t show me that again’.

Brett Larson That’s really not where I thought your guys were going with that, okay?

Leo Laporte We get the other ad as well, believe me, believe me.

Brett Larson No, look, I agree, not everybody is handling their demographic information properly.

Leo Laporte Right, right.

Dwight Silverman It’s more than what you – it’s more than just looking at it, it’s got to be relevant and it’s got to – and it’s got to be smart. And as Jason said, it has to do more than make you click on it, it’s got to draw you in and make you do something it with.

Leo Laporte Did you see that Facebook has got a patent on the News Feed?

Brett Larson Really?

Jason Calacanis I have strong feelings on this, but I can’t speak for the next five minutes.

Leo Laporte I know, the chat room’s banned you.

Jason Calacanis The [ph] jaders (25:58) have told me I can’t speak, so.

Leo Laporte No, no, you can talk all you want. The News Feed, which is – okay, now actually after looking at the patent – we talked a little bit about this on TWiG yesterday, after looking the patent it’s really saying, well this isn’t just a patent for like a News Feed, this is a patent for taking activities that your social graph is doing, you know. Brett Larson just bought a poodle, Dwight Silverman just smoked a cigar and that goes in there too. And so I can see, I mean that’s unique, isn’t it or? Well, go ahead Jason.

Jason Calacanis There is going to be a lot of prior art that’s going to come out that will negate his patent. And it’s a distasteful patent.

Leo Laporte It’s such a broken system, this patent system.

Jason Calacanis Yeah, but it’s a distasteful patent from a distasteful person, Mark Zuckerberg, who has been stealing every single person’s innovation…

Leo Laporte Really?

Jason Calacanis …like, I mean he’s stolen every – everything Twitter does, he just incorporates. And then he incorporates Foursquare.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jason Calacanis He just steals everything that’s out there.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jason Calacanis Now, you can have a very intelligent argument that smart people – you know, that there should be no patents et cetera and then people are iterating on each other, and that’s fine, I believe that.

Leo Laporte And that’s what happens in the computer industry, I mean Apple steals from Microsoft, Microsoft steals from Apple, and the iteration is good for everyone.

Jason Calacanis However, when you are the master iterator, and then you start pulling patents out –

Leo Laporte Say that carefully.


Jason Calacanis You’re the master iterator…

Brett Larson You have to be an adult to do that?

Jason Calacanis Yeah, when you’re a master at iterating, and you’re iterating three times a day.

Leo Laporte Yes. Yes.

Jason Calacanis All the time, and that’s what you’re known for, your iteration. Even when you do it at home, alone, in the middle of the night, you’re iterating.


Jason Calacanis Non-stop iteration. You should not be filing patents, because you’re a little thief anyway. And everybody knows Zuckerberg is a little thief, and everybody in the industry hates him.

Leo Laporte Really?

Jason Calacanis Everybody.

Leo Laporte Really?

Jason Calacanis Everybody. And he is being gunned for right now like you would not believe.

Leo Laporte Who is gunning for him?

Jason Calacanis I’m not saying anything. I was at a table with his partners, with other people who compete with him, multiple CEOs, and they were bad-mouthing him like you would not believe. He is hated. Because…

Dwight Silverman Is it because he’s young and he created something that like, most of the world is using?

Jason Calacanis It’s not that. What it is, is…

Leo Laporte But that’s got to be some of it. People hate – I mean, you know.

Jason Calacanis This is – no. These are sophisticated people, they don’t hate him because of his success. No. What they hate him for is, he steals everybody’s ideas, and then files a patent like this. And he is – he does not care about people in the way that the first web generation of entrepreneurs did.

Leo Laporte No, that’s very much true. He’s a – very much of a new generation. He’s a new generation of – it’s been up to now very collegial, and the sharing of ideas has been positive and not even competitive, exactly. I mean, when you did Propeller, for instance –

Jason Calacanis Right. Right. I was…

Leo Laporte Which was a clone of Digg.

Jason Calacanis Well, I was trying to evolve the idea; I said what if you put an editorial team on top of this idea.

Leo Laporte But you and Kevin are still good friends.

Jason Calacanis Of course. Because he knew I was adding to what he had done, and he knew that he was adding to what Josh at Delicious had done.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jason Calacanis We were building up each other. People don’t feel that way about Zuck.

Leo Laporte No. It’s not the same.

Jason Calacanis And the other thing is, he does not support any open standards. He will not let you export your address book. You know, when you get that BlackBerry thing…

Leo Laporte No, it’s a silo. But so is Twitter – well, it’s less of a silo. At least it has an API.

Jason Calacanis No, no, no. You can build anything on Twitter, you own your content, you can export your list, do whatever you want. And that’s exactly the rub. He is into closed systems and stealing, and these patents. He’s a bad person, people don’t like him, and I think he’s going to be like, you know, Caesar kind of situation, he’s like the big king, and then he’s going to get stabbed.

Leo Laporte Who’s going to be his Brutus? Who’s the Brutus?

Jason Calacanis Oh, it’s going to be multiple. There are so many people gunning for him right now, that the daggers are going to start coming out.

Dwight Silverman So, Jason, do you think that the lawsuit, the early lawsuit in which his friends in college alleged that he stole all their little intellectual properties, [ph] did they get (29:57)…

Leo Laporte The twins. The twins.

Dwight Silverman Was that kind of an example of what he does regularly? Is that what you’re saying?

Jason Calacanis I – what do I personally think?

Dwight Silverman Yeah.

Jason Calacanis I personally think that he has the stealing gene, and he doesn’t have – I think he’s got like that Asperger thing where he doesn’t care about other people, or no empathy. So if you look at his pattern – yes – he was working for somebody else when he stole the idea for Facebook.

Brett Larson Well, now hold – wait a second. Let’s rewind the tape a minute to – or – we don’t use tape anymore, but, no, no. How – what if it’s just a case of he’s just a better businessman, and these people – I mean how often have you sat around the table with your friends and you were like, ‘you know what would be a great idea? If we created a custom t-shirt website…’

Jason Calacanis Nobody will deny that he is incredible…

Brett Larson And people said, ‘that’s a great idea!’ and the ninth person went and did it and then the other eight are like, what the hell?

Leo Laporte ‘You stole our idea!’

Brett Larson That was a conversation we had over dinner!

Dwight Silverman How is it any different from Microsoft, and what Microsoft has done for years?

Jason Calacanis It’s not. And Microsoft went to – and Microsoft got sued by the Justice Department for doing what they did.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jason Calacanis It’s not. Except the only difference is, he’s better at it than Bill Gates was.

Leo Laporte Interesting. Will he be richer?

Jason Calacanis It’s quite possible. And the two lawsuits, you got to remember, there were two lawsuits in the early days.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jason Calacanis One from the ConnectU guys who said he stole their ideas.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jason Calacanis And two, he re – according to that book that’s currently being turned into a movie…

Leo Laporte The Ben Mezrich book, which is by the way a great book, but I don’t know how accurate. Accidental Billionaires.

Jason Calacanis Well – and it’s also a great audio book. But I don’t want to jump the gun.

Leo Laporte We will get there.

Jason Calacanis He supposedly – allegedly – took his co-founder out of the company, reincorporated, and moved the assets into that new company and screwed his co-founder, and then, that Javier guy, and then had to go back and settle that.

Leo Laporte That’s very dramatic. And we don’t know…

Jason Calacanis So he’s settled multiple lawsuits.

Leo Laporte But now remember that Ben got – most of his sources was that guy, not Mark, but the – I can’t remember the other guy’s name, but that was his source. So, you know, we’re hearing one side of it. It’s going to be a movie, by the way. Justin Timberlake is going to be in it.

Brett Larson Wow, is Justin Timberlake going to play him?

Leo Laporte No, he plays the entrepreneur…

Jason Calacanis Sean Parker.

Leo Laporte Yeah Sean Parker. And who is playing Mark, I don’t know? Who would you cast to play Mark Zuckerberg in the Accidental Billionaires?

Jason Calacanis The young Tom Hanks.

Brett Larson That kid from American Pie.

Leo Laporte Yeah, yeah him!

Brett Larson Who humps the pie in the kitchen. It has to be.

Leo Laporte Yeah. He’s 48, but he – somebody like him.

Jason Calacanis The partner’s name was Eduardo…

Leo Laporte Eduardo, that’s right.

Jason Calacanis …Saverin, and if you go look it up, Eduardo Saverin, he – they settled their feud, but it was a major feud.

Leo Laporte Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And in the book it’s very dramatic; he basically gets the rug pulled out from under him.

Jason Calacanis Yeah, basically one day it’s his company, the next day it’s not.

Leo Laporte Who is it?

Dwight Silverman Jesse Eisenberg.

Leo Laporte That’s the kid from American Pie or that’s the guy who is going to play Zuckerberg?

Dwight Silverman That’s the – who is going to play – that’s who’s going to play Zuckerberg.

Leo Laporte Somebody sent me, I don’t know if it’s true or not, you know it’s an Aaron Sorkin script, which to me is all I needed to hear. Somebody – Jesse Eisenberg looks just like Mark Zuckerberg, I mean that’s a good…

Brett Larson Oh yeah.

Dwight Silverman Jesse Eisenberg is also – he was in Zombieland, he’s the kid in Zombieland.

Leo Laporte Oh, there you go.

Dwight Silverman Which is a great movie.

Leo Laporte So somebody sent what they purported to be the script. I’ll send it along to you Jason, I don’t know if it’s real or not, but it reads like an Aaron Sorkin script, I think it is.

Jason Calacanis Yeah the script is –

Brett Larson Is this going to be like a made-for-TV movie?

Leo Laporte No, this is big deal Trigger Street Production, it’s a Kevin Spacey production.

Dwight Silverman It’s called the Social Network.

Leo Laporte Oh really, they changed the name.

Dwight Silverman That’s the name on IMDB anyway, The Social Network.

Leo Laporte Oh, okay, because the name of the book was Accidental Billionaires. The Social Network, an upcoming 2010 comedy drama, David Fincher directing, that’s good, Jesse Eisenberg, Brenda Song, Justin Timberlake, Andrew Garfield, Rooney Mara, and Arnie Hammer. Aaron Sorkin writes from Ben Mezrich’s 2009 novel The Accidental Billionaires. Ah, that should be good.

Dwight Silverman Oh, and Stanley Tucci is playing Jason Calacanis in it.

Leo Laporte Really?

Dwight Silverman Yes.

Leo Laporte Are you in it?

Jason Calacanis No, no I got the ability to pick – it’s actually going to be Rick Schroeder. Ricky Schroeder. All grown up.

Leo Laporte But he’s just the right height.

Jason Calacanis I was at the celebrity – WPT Celebrity Poker Tournament and so I was introducing myself, I said hey Rick – Rick Schroeder, people believed it.

Leo Laporte That’s funny. You look like a little Ricky Schroeder. It’s like you might get that all the time.

Jason Calacanis Silver spoons.

Leo Laporte We are going to – we are going to take a little break, come back with more – might as well do the Audible thing, since you started it, and I know you love Audible, Jason., that’s the place you where you can go and get two Audible books. I guess we are going to have to make Accidental Billionaires be one of them, and you should – I always like to read the book before I see the movie, and when I say read I mean listen because Audible just brings these books to life, I mean and this was – I really enjoyed listening to Accidental Billionaires.

Brett Larson You know when I like Audible, when I’m on the subway.

Leo Laporte Sure.

Brett Larson Because not only do I not have to listen to the crazy people around me, I’m – it’s like I’m reading but I don’t have to be focused.

Leo Laporte Right.

Brett Larson And I can continue, I can get on the subway, I can get off the subway, I can do my whole commute without ever having to pick up a book but yet I am still getting the information.

Leo Laporte That’s the idea, is that you can read even in the places where you wouldn’t want to hold a book.

Brett Larson Yeah.

Leo Laporte When you’re using your forearms to defend yourself against stab wounds. But you don’t have to put the book down, it’s great.

Brett Larson Yeah.

Jason Calacanis And you walking upstairs, maybe you can’t get a seat and yeah you can – yeah, it’s awesome.

Brett Larson You can never get a seat on the subway – it’s service cuts – service cuts.

Jason Calacanis I have an Audible pick.

Leo Laporte All right, so there’s one Accident Billionaires, founding of Facebook, but you’re going to get two, if you go to What’s your second one?

Jason Calacanis And they – by the way, they build up, they don’t expire.

Leo Laporte Oh, you keep them forever. If I look at my library, I’ve got well over 350 books now in my library.

Jason Calacanis That’s incredible.

Leo Laporte Yeah I love it. I love it.

Jason Calacanis Yeah.

Brett Larson Occasionally when my iPod is on random…

Leo Laporte You get a book.

Brett Larson It plays an audio book.

Leo Laporte Isn’t that funny.

Brett Larson And I think that’s very funny – it’ll go from like a song to Ellen Degeneres reading, whatever the name of her book is.

Leo Laporte You know you can actually tell it not to include books in the shuffle, you know that, right.

Brett Larson But that’s make it more fun.

Leo Laporte Yeah you never know what you’re going to get.

Brett Larson You’re randomly rocking out and then all of a sudden its like, when I was 17 I discovered that –

Jason Calacanis That sounds pretty good!

Brett Larson I’m leaving it at that…

Leo Laporte Oh Ellen, oh Ellen Ellen Ellen.

Jason Calacanis It was the best of times, it was the worst of times…

Leo Laporte Oh dear.

Brett Larson It’s read by her too, that’s what so great; it’s funny that way.

Leo Laporte I love that one, I think she is so funny.

Jason Calacanis So my pick is Talent Is Overrated: what really separates world-class performers from everybody else. Talent Is Overrated, it’s by Geoff Colvin, and it is a non-fiction book, which I love – I love it. And it is narrated by David Drummond, and it is awesome.

Leo Laporte Wow.

Jason Calacanis It goes into like –

Leo Laporte So it’s like a Freakonomics type book or...

Jason Calacanis Yes.

Leo Laporte ...Outliers kind of think.

Jason Calacanis Yes, but it’s better. Because it gets really into what makes somebody truly great at something.

Leo Laporte Oh I got to listen to this.

Jason Calacanis And it’s based upon that same – this is like, I think – I’m pretty sure that the Outlier [ph] stuff with the (37:13) 10,000 hours.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Jason Calacanis Was sort of derivative of this book. I don’t know that, but somebody will check that fact, and put it in the chat room but it is great because it goes into like what actually, like here are these three chess champions and here is Mozart –

Leo Laporte It’s the same premise that, that success in a field is not determined by in-born talent, but by...

Jason Calacanis Not at all.

Leo Laporte ...but by practice and perseverance over the decades.

Jason Calacanis Oh. And I tell you, it’s about deliberate practice, is –

Leo Laporte You got to get those 10,000 hours.

Jason Calacanis Right. But it’s not just those, it’s the deliberate practice, where you are practicing a certain way and then they go into some of the great receivers in the NFL and how...

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Jason Calacanis ...who’s the guy from San Francisco, is it Rice?

Leo Laporte Jerry Rice, yeah.

Jason Calacanis So they go into Jerry Rice, and how he practiced and I just have to say everybody is asking for it in the chat room, ah, Audible. Mmmmm Audible!

Leo Laporte Oh baby! That’s a ringtone by the way. That is a famous ringtone!, go there, get two books, Audible is the greatest library of audio entertainment ever, it’s the Alexandria of library of audio, and you can get two books free right now. And cancel at any time and keep those books. Talent is Overrated, one of them. And the other one, Accidental Billionaires.

Jason Calacanis And so you could actually do that, you could sign up right now at audible/twit, take the two books and then cancel and you just got two books, there is literally nothing to lose.

Leo Laporte Nothing to lose.

Brett Larson Literally nothing

Jason Calacanis Literally /twit2.

Leo Laporte, thank you so much Audible for long term support of this show, they have been keeping us going for a long time. So it turns out that Foursquare will be airing a TV commercial tonight on Bravo. You’re a Foursquare investor, right Jason?

Jason Calacanis Actually an investor in Gowalla.

Leo Laporte Oh you are in Gowalla? I think Kevin has money in both.

Jason Calacanis He’s got money in both which is a little weird but yes and –

Leo Laporte Well he’s betting the race, not the horses.

Jason Calacanis He’s betting horse racing. I think he’d bet on black and red.

Leo Laporte Do you use – Brett Larson, do you use any of these location-based services?

Brett Larson I don’t, and –

Leo Laporte You live in New York, see if you live in a big city and – you probably go out every night.

Brett Larson Well it’s – I have this weird phobia of people randomly knowing where – I mean it’s one thing – and not to like blow my own horn because if I could I’d never leave my apartment but...

Leo Laporte Okay. Oh, I just got it.

Brett Larson ...when you are on TV, everywhere you go people know where you are because they see you.

Leo Laporte So you are not allowed to go out?

Brett Larson Yeah, so...

Leo Laporte You’re that big a celebrity in Manhattan that people would say –

Brett Larson We have to be – we have to be very careful, we always are warned about, you don’t want to update your Facebook and say; oh I am going to be here.

Leo Laporte Because they’ll track you down

Brett Larson Well because then people like stalkers can show up. And there’s this great website, have you seen

Leo Laporte Yes, we interviewed him last week on net@night.

Brett Larson That is, I mean, that’s a great example. I mean, look, I live in a large apartment building, you’d be –

Leo Laporte Well you don’t say here’s my address, I’m going out, I’ll be back in five hours, you don’t put that on Face – on Foursquare.

Brett Larson Here’s my argument against the; Monday through Friday most people are at work.

Leo Laporte Right. You know that.

Brett Larson Criminals only go out at night? I mean, what the hell is that?

Leo Laporte Crooks aren’t stupid. Well, they are stupid. But – so let me play, this is the ad – now that you are no longer famous, Brett, you can go out.

Brett Larson Now that I am only on the radio, people don’t know what I look like.

Leo Laporte No, they have no idea, exactly, radio – this is why radio has always been the best medium.

Dwight Silverman Leo, before you play that I just want to – I want to air a gripe.

Leo Laporte Okay.

Dwight Silverman Now that I have this big platform, because this is like my pet peeve, I love the general idea of Foursquare, I like being able to say, in Foursquare, hey I am here and it has tips and it says what’s cool at the place you’re at.

Leo Laporte And you can be the mayor.

Dwight Silverman If you want to find friends, well if you stay within Foursquare, it’s cool, but there are people who push their Foursquare, where they are, and that they have ousted the mayor of the Denny’s restroom out to Twitter and Facebook and it clutters up that stream and I want to make an appeal to all the Foursquare and Gowalla and Yelp users: don’t do it! It’s really irritating.

Leo Laporte I post to my Facebook, I should probably stop – I’ll turn that off.

Dwight Silverman Well, Facebook’s okay. Facebook I think it fits there.

Leo Laporte Yeah I don’t put it on Twitter.

Dwight Silverman Because it’s not a constant stream.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I don’t put it in Twitter.

Dwight Silverman But in Twitter, it’s just really irritating.

Leo Laporte It put it my real time news feed on Facebook, patent pending. So here’s the ad, this will be on Bravo tonight, but you get to see it here first from

[Advertisement] (41:57)

Now that’s interesting, that’s a deal obviously that Foursquare’s made.

Brett Larson Good for them, that’s the place to have it run; Bravo.

Leo Laporte Bravo, really?

Brett Larson Bravo to them. Bravo; well I mean all that reality crap is on Bravo.

Leo Laporte Is Bravo, like the channel for people – oh it is, so it’s a channel for people who go out? No.

Jason Calacanis It’s – Bravo is like urban, city, styling…

Brett Larson It’s the channel that people watch that gives them stuff to talk about.

Leo Laporte Oh, so it is for hipsters?

Brett Larson It’s for people who go out and they’re like ‘did you see Pimp My Runway?’ or whatever the hell the shows are called now.

Leo Laporte I was told one of the reasons that we’re launching a morning show is, I was told several times in many different ways by ad agencies and our own ad reps, that 18 to 34 year old people who are the obvious target for Gowalla and Foursquare, don’t watch TV, they don’t see ads, they have no exposure to ads and advertise – drives advertisers crazy that they can’t reach this group and so they are desperate to reach this group and these – I mean that would be a good reason why these apps might be very valuable for them.

Brett Larson Well, you got to figure if you can get your semi-popular show or popular show on to a social networking application and then integrate it into peoples’ lives, you like – that’s my synergy motion – you synergize all of these things together.

Leo Laporte Nicely synergized.

Brett Larson And then, you know, then not only are you – you’re down at the West End Tavern, my favorite drinking hole across the street from me.

Leo Laporte Se, now you are going to have stalkers.

Dwight Silverman You’re going to be stalked.

Brett Larson That you’re there, and other people are there, and maybe you’re talking about Bravo shows.

Leo Laporte Right, no – not a chance in hell.

Jason Calacanis In related news, the Jersey Shore has now a signed a deal with Chatroulette.

Leo Laporte Okay, let’s talk about Chatroulette. Even my wife – even my wife knows about Chatroulette, and she doesn’t know about anything.

Jason Calacanis I was actually on Chatroulette with your wife last night. Hey-o!

Leo Laporte Okay. So…

Jason Calacanis That will be Jason’s last appearance on TWiT.

Leo Laporte No, no, we love – we love, whatever you just said; I’m sure it’s fine. So I want to go to Chatroulette. So what happens with Chatroulette, is what?

Dwight Silverman You are going to go to Chatroulette?

Jason Calacanis You’re not going to Chatroulette live; you can’t do that.

Leo Laporte Why not? You think that some naked guy’s going to be on there?

Jason Calacanis One out of 20 is a penis.

Dwight Silverman Don’t do it!

Leo Laporte One out of 20 is a penis?

Jason Calacanis Oh, yeah. That’s the tag line.

Leo Laporte So how do I – how do I start this?

Brett Larson But it says Chatroulette does not tolerate broadcasting of penises…

Leo Laporte Yeah, yeah, right. Right on.

Brett Larson Why does everything on the internet have to turn into porn?

Leo Laporte Just click play, okay.

Dwight Silverman Don’t do it!

Jason Calacanis No, it’s going you have to hit the ‘play’ on the top left, top left. The other top left.


Leo Laporte It works! Where are you – where are you from?

Jason Calacanis Hello, we’re calling from…

Dwight Silverman You chat, you type.

Leo Laporte Oh, you type?

Jason Calacanis Shoe on head.

Leo Laporte Oh, they pressed next. Dudes, you just got – you just got more clicks than you’ll ever have in the rest of your life. All right, so I’m going to play next, so you press next, right?

Jason Calacanis Yeah. You’re now playing Chatroulette.

Dwight Silverman I can’t believe you are doing this.

Leo Laporte Ooh!

Jason Calacanis AAH!

Brett Larson There you go.

Leo Laporte Okay, it only took one.

Dwight Silverman I warned you Leo; you were warned!

Jason Calacanis Oh, Leo.

Leo Laporte Ooh!

Brett Larson Hit the dump button, Leo, quick!

Jason Calacanis Wait a second, if I get an FCC fine for this, are you paying?

Leo Laporte No, there’s no FCC. It’s the internet.

Jason Calacanis Oh my god! I think that’s the first live penis on TWiT. Oh wait a second; Cory Doctorow was on last week…

Leo Laporte Oh, now, now, now, now.

Jason Calacanis Hey-o! Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry.

Leo Laporte I probably should have – I should press next and then hit the button to show what's on camera.

Brett Larson That was interesting.

Leo Laporte It’s a sad – a sad moment. Well see – as soon as they see me, they – she’s looking for penises, obviously.

Brett Larson You need to – it would be great if you could connect other people.

Leo Laporte So what is the – what is this…

Brett Larson She is looking for penis; you found one. Connect them! Do synergize!

Leo Laporte I know – yes, right, I know where one is. What is the appeal of this?

Dwight Silverman Go back, hit the back button.

Leo Laporte Is there a back button?

Jason Calacanis There is no back button. Fortunately there’s no back button.

Dwight Silverman Just keep going; you’ll find one.

Leo Laporte Now, this isn’t – you know, this isn’t new. I remember this from a couple of years ago; somebody did the same thing. But for some reason this just attracted a lot of attention.

Jason Calacanis There was one called See You See Me [CUCME]. You remember in ’95, ’96, ’97…

Leo Laporte Yeah, right.

Dwight Silverman Oh, yeah.

Jason Calacanis Except that was you could have 20 different streams up at once. It was a university project and…

Brett Larson Oh, we know where that’s going.

Leo Laporte Is that going down?

Brett Larson Yeah, he’s got – he’s got his – he’s like sitting on…

Leo Laporte The hand was – where was that other hand? So who does this? Who is doing this?

Jason Calacanis It’s about 10% female, about 80% penis and 10% other.

Dwight Silverman Hey, there’s the Jonas Brothers.

Jason Calacanis Somebody did statistics on it.

Leo Laporte It’s the Jonas Brothers everybody. Oh, they didn’t want to stick around. See, nobody wants to stick around with me. They see me and they go, oh that’s, I don’t want to see them.

Jason Calacanis But that’s what you get; a lot of groups of people, so you get like groups of girls in a dorm room, so what I did the other night, was I put Taurus and Fondue on it…

Leo Laporte Oh, that’s clever.

Jason Calacanis …and everybody stops, they will not hit F9. So get a really [indiscernible] (47:32)…

Leo Laporte I need a dog.

Jason Calacanis You need a dog.

Leo Laporte In fact I should get out of the picture and just have the dog in the picture.

Jason Calacanis Or what you can do is you can just route it to a video of like a dog running around in a circle and they wouldn’t know, if you use that video thing that you are talking about.

Dwight Silverman There’s a video hacker thing.

Brett Larson Oh, somebody’s talking

Leo Laporte Hello, hello.

Unknown Speaker Hey.

Leo Laporte Hi, where are you?

Unknown Speaker Can you hear us?

Leo Laporte Yes, I can hear you. Where are you from?

Unknown Speaker We’re from Denmark.

Leo Laporte Hello Denmark, I’m calling from California.

Unknown Speaker California, oh my god. That’s great.

Leo Laporte Your English is excellent for a Danish person.

Unknown Speaker Thank you. How’s the weather there?

Leo Laporte Oh, it’s sunny and beautiful. How is it in Denmark?

Unknown Speaker Oh envy, we got snow all over here.

Leo Laporte Oh, I’m sorry.

Jason Calacanis How many penises have you seen on.

Leo Laporte No, they disconnected. They disconnected, obviously I wasn’t wooing them. Wow, that’s, okay, I can see why that’s kind of appealing, I mean it’s kind of, frankly I couldn’t stop pressing F9…

Brett Larson Yeah. But where is the revenue stream on something like this?

Leo Laporte There is no revenue stream.

Dwight Silverman It’s, I think, a 17-year-old kid in Moscow who is doing it.

Leo Laporte Is it really?

Dwight Silverman Yeah.

Jason Calacanis [Indiscernible] (48:48).

Dwight Silverman Fred – what’s his last name, Jason, Fred?

Leo Laporte Davis?

Jason Calacanis Fred Wilson.

Leo Laporte Wilson.

Jason Calacanis He wants to bring him to New York.

Dwight Silverman He offered to fly him over.

Leo Laporte Really, but this is a trivial thing to do, you could do this with…

Jason Calacanis But he did it.

Leo Laporte He did it.

Jason Calacanis And he created a meme.

Leo Laporte Right, I’m going to try holding the clock up because I think that will be more compelling than me.

Jason Calacanis Leo, wait Leo don’t stand up like that.

Leo Laporte Was that unattractive?

Jason Calacanis Don’t do it Leo, don’t do it.

Leo Laporte Was that bad, should I have not, did you see something there? Oh, I am sorry, I forgot I didn’t have my pants on. Chatroulette, it’s so simple and yet so compelling, unique.

Jason Calacanis It’s pretty brutal.

Leo Laporte Well, I only saw one –

Jason Calacanis Well, you got there in two clicks, you got there in two clicks.

Leo Laporte Two clicks, so that’s kind of – that’s kind of what you’re doing here, is you’re seeing how many clicks is it going to take to get to the center of the candy. Look, see; clock.

Brett Larson He’s like whisky tango there…

Leo Laporte Clock, clock. Ooh, see, look how long we’ve kept him now, ten – oh.

Brett Larson That’s a new record.

Leo Laporte Uh oh.


Leo Laporte He looked busy… Okay, enough of that. Wow.

Jason Calacanis Dorm room.

Leo Laporte Yeah. I mean…I don’t know what to say, that’s what, but it seems to me unfortunately that that’s what the Internet was invented for.

Brett Larson That’s what the song in Avenue Q says.

Dwight Silverman The Internet Is For Porn.

Brett Larson The Internet Is For Porn.

Leo Laporte But that is not even porn, that is just – what – I don’t know what that is.

Brett Larson It’s time wasting, it’s, I think the Internet is this next generation’s television, just like when we got… I remember when I was kid and we got cable TV. It was like we went from having five channels to having 35 channels and 30 of them were junk and now the Internet is like, you went from having a thousand channels to an unlimited number of places to go.

Leo Laporte Millions.

Dwight Silverman And this is what we have done with it, turned our cameras on and watching random people [indiscernible] (50:54)

Leo Laporte Miguel Helft writing in the New York Times this week says Intel was also a victim of the kind, almost exactly the same kind of cyber attack that occurred on Google and other companies. Intel is I think only the second or third company to admit it and we are starting to see indications that may be hundreds of companies were hacked by the Chinese at this time. Chuck Malloy at Google said the only connection between what we saw in January and the attacks on Google is timing, but according to the New York Times, Intel was part of the same wave of attacks that affected the Google and Malloy said later based on more research we can’t rule out there may be other similarities between the Google and Intel attacks.

Dwight Silverman

There is also a story in Computer World that says that more than a hundred companies were targeted, but if you’re a company, you don’t want to be on this list because it makes it look like, you don’t have control of your people, a lot of this was social engineering and phishing and so I don’t see a lot of people wanting to cop to this.

Leo Laporte And I am kind of in a way I think Google should get some credit for stepping forward and saying it happened to them. Look if Google got hacked, these guys are sophisticated.

Dwight Silverman Well, it gave Google a chance I think to do something it… a lot of its executives have wanted to do for a while which I think was find an out in China.

Leo Laporte Right. Wal-Mart adds its cloud to movie streaming is also from the, movie streaming is also from New York Times. Wal-Mart says it’s agreed to buy Voodoo, remember Voodoo?

Jason Calacanis Yeah, whatever happened to them.

Leo Laporte They got bought by Wal-Mart. That’s what happened to them. It was three years old, it was a movie service, they were actually building them in the Blu-ray players and TVs. According to the Times, the price for the company was over $100 million. Best Buy, Amazon, Comcast and EchoStar had also has shown some interest in Voodoo. So what does this do?

Brett Larson I think it’s great, because it needs to happen.

Dwight Silverman First thing they did was shut down the X-rated part.

Leo Laporte They turned off the porno. Well, so is this like a Roku kind of thing.

Dwight Silverman I love the Roku.

Leo Laporte I do too, we’re on the Roku. we love the Roku because we are on the Roku.

Brett Larson And you know what, here’s my complaint about the Roku I love it, don’t get me wrong. But there is not enough movies, there is not enough like blockbuster movies. There is plenty of indie films and documentaries and TV shows, but I want, I want that HBO to go thing which I actually get now because I have the files, the Verizon FiOS.

Leo Laporte You have “X-Finity”

Jason Calacanis Yes.

Leo Laporte Wait a minute.

Brett Larson No, X-Finity is the Comcast, Verizon FiOS is test marketing that HBO to go.

Leo Laporte But when they say “to go” what do they mean to go, like you could take it with you?

Brett Larson You can log in to HBO from your computers, so effectively you could do it at work and waste more time and watch HBO content, kind of like you can with the on demand. So I think its great, it’s Hulu that’s for HBO.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Brett Larson HBO is the big kid in town. So they can be very restrictive with their content, because they have very desirable content.

Leo Laporte They’re the one company making content people will actually pay for.

Brett Larson Yeah, or wait for. A lot of people wait for…

Jason Calacanis And you just have to prove that you have and HBO subscription to get it, right? That’s going to be the plan.

Brett Larson I have to use my Verizon FiOS login email which I hate to admit this, I never set it up. So I don’t know what it is.

Jason Calacanis

[indiscernible] you brought that up because… (54:29)

Leo Laporte I have that problem all the time. I use Gmail; I can never remember what’s my Comcast email? What are they talking about?

Brett Larson Yeah, exactly! When do you ever use your Internet service provider’s email? I’m going to use it so I can have a Verizon password, or email.

Leo Laporte We are outliers, we are just – we are not real people. We’re outliers.

Brett Larson I like my email portable, I like it portable.

Leo Laporte Very interesting. I was watching the Tsunami coverage yesterday. Of course everybody was worried, there was alarms were going off all over Hawaii everybody was worried that Hawaii was going to get hit by a pretty big tidal wave. Thank goodness, it did not. But what did you see on CNN, on all the local stations?

Jason Calacanis Ustream.

Leo Laporte Ustream.

Jason Calacanis Yeah, they were Ustreaming it. I was like, wait a minute…

Brett Larson I saw Ustream coverage of the – of Chile.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Brett Larson And the earthquake.

Leo Laporte And Skype and they were talking to people in Chile via Skype.

Jason Calacanis They were tuning into like three or four TV stations over Ustream. That was a watershed moment.

Leo Laporte I think so. Didn’t – Ustream just got a pretty big influx of cash as I remember?

Jason Calacanis $75 million from Masa, from Softbank.

Leo Laporte Holy…

Jason Calacanis Masa – I know Masa, he’s a friend of mine. He runs Softbank in Japan and he was the richest man in the world at one point, actually.

Leo Laporte [ph] Son-san. (55:41)

Jason Calacanis Yeah, Son. And he’s is a Korean but born in Japan, I believe – or he’s lived in Japan his whole life. He’s the most powerful guy in Japan and he put in $75 million I think and he bought most of the company and he is going to be bringing it to China and Japan.

Leo Laporte Interesting.

Jason Calacanis And He sees it as the future. So those guys are Brad and his partner, just congratulations to them.

Leo Laporte Yeah, big big big. They are one of our streaming partners. In fact they are the ones that allow us to do live streaming on the iPhone just through Safari, because they have an H.264 stream which we love.

Jason Calacanis So this is a real business. And I didn’t know…

Leo Laporte Do you think they are the winner? I mean, we have BitGravity,, there’s LiveStream…

Jason Calacanis Yeah, they’re going to win.

Leo Laporte Do you think it’s because of 75 million they are going to win?

Brett Larson Now...

Jason Calacanis I think they have the best product.

Brett Larson Okay. Because I was going to say, is it no longer that you’ve got the hippest name or the most users? Is it that you actually have to have the best platform and the best infrastructure?

Leo Laporte I think they are all the same platform. I’m sorry, we use them all; I don’t think there’s that much difference. What do you use, you use them all?

Jason Calacanis I use Ustream. But I think that Ustream is a little more robust than I don’t think is bad. feels like a lot of people like putting soccer games illegally online.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jason Calacanis Yeah.

Leo Laporte That’s a big problem for all of these. Stickam was a big problem because they had a lot of cam girls and it was very hard to live that down you know.

Jason Calacanis Yeah, Ustream feels like they are doing content deals correctly.

Leo Laporte Right.

Brett Larson It’s all about the content.

Jason Calacanis Like they have a deal with CBS. They can actually put CBS online legally.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jason Calacanis And they do.

Leo Laporte I hate to see anyone win only because it’s good for us that there is some competition and there are different streams. If you go to you’ll see along the bottom you can click different streams and find the one that works the best for you at the moment. I’d hate to see one just dominate that.

Jason Calacanis It’s not going to be one. They’ll be the winner but they’ll be like winner with 30% of the market.

Leo Laporte Right. Okay. Good, that’s fine by me. No, I love Brad, Brad’s a good friend and he’s been very supportive. We started streaming on Ustream many, many moons ago now.

Jason Calacanis I think that what they really need to do is just take the top-end content and lock them in and do like multi-year deals with them, and then just go to somebody like you and say, “We’re going to buy your stream for this many years”.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jason Calacanis Just knowing the direction where they are going and they should lock in the top content, the top 10 people.

Dwight Silverman That’s smart.

Leo Laporte We were exclusive to Stickam for a while and I didn’t like exclusivity because if their servers had problems, and everybody has everybody has problems from time to time, then I would be down. But I guess if you have that much money, and you have that much infrastructure now, it’s not as much an issue.

Jason Calacanis Yeah, I think so.

Dwight Silverman Oh it can still happen regardless.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I know. Welcome to the Internet

Dwight Silverman I mean diversity is good. That’s one reason why your setup is ……..

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Dwight Silverman It works well, Leo. If one doesn’t work well, you choose the other.

Leo Laporte We learnt the hard way, that that’s kind of what I had to do. Hey, this portion of the show brought to you my friends at Squarespace. They are going to be a really great friend to TWiT because it’s their offices that we are going to use for our New York venture. It was very kind of them to step right up. We are big fans of them and they are big fans of TWiT.

I want you to go to and visit Squarespace. It is a web hosting company/software company. So it’s not a content management system alone, it’s also the hosting. Starts as little as $8 a month. What’s great about that even if you have the $8 a-month system, their V – virtual server technology means you’ll never get overrun by – if I should pull up your site on TWiT or Slashdot or Digg, you can handle it. You get the great Squarespace iPhone app which makes it really easy to post. You can import and export content from Movable Type, WordPress, TypePad, Blogger. They’ve got social media integration, beautiful templates, too. They just really look good.

We are moving, finally I said alright we’re going to move the Tech Guy radio show over. We are – our company blog is on it, ‘inside twit’, That’s a Squarespace site. But you know – what’s nice about Squarespace the sites all look different. You couldn’t tell that one site is a Squarespace site and not another. Many photographers use it for their portfolios; that’s because Squarespace has incredible galleries built in, it’s automatic. It captures your vision. You can use the templates, you can customize the templates but if you know CSS and JavaScript, you can also do anything.

Jason Calacanis You really want to go to

Leo Laporte Yes.

Jason Calacanis That’s where you can see how impressive it is.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Jason Calacanis I don’t know, that should be their front page in my mind.

Leo Laporte Look at this. I mean they’re just all great. And they all look different.

Jason Calacanis And easy to do.

Dwight Silverman Yeah.

Leo Laporte That’s the beauty of it. It really –

Jason Calacanis You know when those people who come to you and say, hey, can you help me build my website and all those kind of stuff, and you’re like, it’s not like what I do for a living, I don’t build websites. Just send them to squarespace. Because they get it done themselves, you save them from having to hire some designer for $5,000 who doesn’t return phone calls.

Leo Laporte Right. These guys are incredible. Just incredible.

Jason Calacanis They do a solid job.

Leo Laporte to find out more, and yeah, go to to take a look at the examples. You can sign up right now and use it free for two weeks, no credit card needed, and if you decide to buy, you get 10% off if you use coupon code TWIT. You’re thinking about a new site? Your first site? Don’t forget squarespace. Give it a try. I think you will be very happy with it.

Jason Calacanis And by the way, it’s free without a credit card. So there’s really no – you don’t even need to take your credit card out, which is nice.

Leo Laporte I like it – I really like it when people do that, it just makes it very simple.

Jason Calacanis And I just want to point out, everybody in the audience, if you’re hearing my voice it is your [ph] gary (1:01:23), your humble responsibility to thank the sponsors on Twitter, and Facebook and Buzz. You just go thanks @ Audible_com, @ Squarespace and @ GoToMeeting. Just thank ‘em.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Jason Calacanis I do.

Leo Laporte I thank ‘em. Boy, do I thank ‘em. We wouldn’t be…

Jason Calacanis Yeah.

Leo Laporte You know in fact one of the reasons we can even contemplate this morning’s show is beause the advertisers, all of these advertisers including Squarespace and Citrix have stepped up and said Ford’s going to come along, they said yeah…

Jason Calacanis What is this? I heard about this on the – I was listening to This Week in Google, and they alluded to it. What is going on?

Leo Laporte So Squarespace has – is moving into a new office, they have still a long term lease on their old office, it’s on Broom Street in SoHo, it’s beautiful, beautiful. And they said, well, why don’t you use it for TWiT East?

And I said, well, you know what I’d like to do is build a studio out there and hire somebody like, I don’t know, Brett Larsen. And we’re talking to other people as well – and I won’t say names – but to host a morning show, early morning show, out – daily, Monday through Friday, live out there that is like TWiT, it’s tech-focused. But it’s fun, it’s upbeat, because we’re on all these portable platforms, like the iPhone and the Nexus one and streaming everywhere soon, you know, soon in the next few months, we’ll be streaming everywhere.

So couldn’t you wake up to a morning show that is on the internet instead of on a radio? Wouldn’t that be cool? And then you get up and start making breakfast and you turn on the TV, it’s there too. You get in the car, it’s still there. That’s what we want to do. And I just think that this is going to be – not merely interesting for us, but I think a breakthrough for internet media.

Brett Larsen I agree. It’s the one – it’s the final frontier. It’s bringing it all together now, because it’s on all the platforms. And it’s that prime market of time as someone who used to employ me once said, ‘the only growth in media is in the morning.’

Leo Laporte The morning shows, that’s when people are getting up, and that’s where they listen – that’s where radio makes all of its – who is that? Okay, now that’s better. It was just – you know, it was some interference or something.

So I was thinking – I already got, you know, Kevin Sellers who does internet – does a weather podcast, he wants to be the weatherman, so we’re going to have a staff meteorologist. But then I thought, you know, we shouldn’t do weather, we should do internet forecasts. ‘There’s a little congestion over Mae West, and going down through the southeast’ – wouldn’t that be fun?


Jason Calacanis That would be awesome.

Dwight Silverman Leo, are you going to do any – you say it’s going to be an internet show. Are you going to do any traditional news?

Leo Laporte Yeah, I think we’ll have news. Yeah, we’ll have news at the top of every hour, just like you would on a regular radio show. Fewer units, you know, we’re only going to do maybe five units, they do – you know – I work at commercial radio still. Nineteen units an hour of commercials. Of commercials. When I take my radio show and edit out all the commercials, news and traffic, a three-hour show becomes two hours long. So we won’t do that much. We’ll do maybe five units an hour. But we will have a lot of those features, because it’s full service, right? When you get up, you need to know those things.

Dwight Silverman Right. You really do.

Leo Laporte It’ll be fun. Brett –

Dwight Silverman I feel like if you could give people that information, entertain them a little bit, and give them a bit of information about a subject that they like – which everybody loves tech – you’re golden.

Leo Laporte Exactly. Anyway, it’s a really exciting idea, and one of the reasons I’m really thrilled to have Brett do this, is he’s in New York, he’s cool, he’s hip, and he knows technology – so it’s perfect. We need people like, funny, lively, interesting, young 18 to 34 – you’re still young, you’re 34, right, Brett?

Brett Larsen Yeah, actually I am.

Leo Laporte Thank goodness. 18 – 34, that’s why I’m not doing it. That’s why I’m not involved. I’m too old for this stuff. I’m going to become a…

Brett Larsen Will it be branded TWiT?

Leo Laporte Yeah. I think it will be called TWiT Morning, I don’t know exactly what we’re going to call it.

Jason Calacanis Oh, that’s a great idea.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Oh, it will be branded TWiT. Yeah, wouldn’t you listen? Especially if it were fun?

Jason Calacanis Of course.

Leo Larsen I’m trying to talk Clayton into doing it with us.

Jason Calacanis It’s a lot of work to do a daily show.

Leo Laporte It is. We’ll have staff work, because it is, it’s a ton of work.

Jason Calacanis You’re going to need two engineers and two hosts and a producer. Five people, right?

Leo Laporte Yeah, that’s exactly what we’re planning. Actually, we’re planning four hosts, two of them producer types, as well as hosts, an executive producer, engineer – and then – you know what’s funny, as soon as I mention this, people have volunteered like crazy. We have – there’s so many people back in the New York area who want to be part of this.

Jason Calacanis Yeah. There’s a lot of talent and it’s not like there’s any place for them to go right now because TechTV’s gone, there really is very little opportunity for a on-air talent. The local news stations have imploded.

Leo Laporte Exactly.

Dwight Silverman Yes, they have.

Jason Calacanis And one problem is these guys – the guys from local TV are overpaid.

Leo Laporte Well, I know and I can’t pay that kind of money. So I look for people who are out of work.

Jason Calacanis They have to be entrepreneurial. They have to want to get a percentage of revenue.

Leo Laporte That’s what we are doing. We are doing a rev share. That's exactly right.

Jason Calacanis Yes, that will, that will…

Brett Larson You see that to me is the way it always should have always been. When I was in radio, I wanted a cut of the ads.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jason Calacanis Now you get no downside.

Brett Larson Give me – give me my $5 an hour, whatever the crap money I was making, but give me 10%.

Leo Laporte And you are doing the ads, so the results are tied to you and all that.

Dwight Silverman What time would you start, Leo? What time…

Leo Laporte I don’t know. Brett was saying. I was going to say six to 10 and then Brett says that's too early, nobody is up at that hour.

Jason Calacanis 8 o’clock.

Brett Larson The New York metro is weird though because it’s – you have got multiple, you have got like – it’s like multiple rings of people where you have got the people on the island and the people in New Jersey, Long Island, not Manhattan who get up at five to get into the city by eight…

Leo Laporte Right.

Brett Larson …and then as you get closer, your commute shrinks down.

Leo Laporte Right.

Brett Larson So your commute times go all the way to 9 o’clock.

Leo Laporte And then we’ll repeat it because that's what we do back east. We repeat it again for the West Coast and frankly, you know what, I think we are going to have a separate channel for and just repeat it round the clock as we have people all over the world who listen, who would love to get up to this, those girls in Denmark.

Brett Larson They said they had a lot of snow, I don’t know.

Jason Calacanis ‘There’s a lot of snow!’

Leo Laporte ‘There’s a lot of snow out here…’

Jason Calacanis ‘In Denmark.’

Leo Laporte I know I didn’t have the camera on, because I could tell they were hot.

Jason Calacanis Yeah, they were definitely in a hot tub with snow around them.

Leo Laporte Yeah, ‘we are wearing white ermine ear muffs but this is all. That is all.’ Lenovo says businesses don’t want slates. They were fresh, their tablet – Lenovo makes these great convertible tablets but they said we are not going to make a slate, we are not going to make which is something without a keyboard. We think our audience are business audience wants a keyboard,they want convertibles. We are not going to do an iPad or anything like it.

Dwight Silverman It’s highly vertical, I think, if you want to do a slate, Doctors, I could see using slates, people in the medical profession and something where you would normally walk around with a clipboard but beyond that I don’t see the average business person wanting to go without a keyboard.

Leo Laporte Are you still, Dwight, you were kind of negative on the iPad on the day of the announcement, whereas – here we are a month in or a month away, I presume, although we still haven’t seen a preview.

Dwight Silverman I still – I am – the jury is still out. I think interestingly don’t tell my parents. They don’t listen to this but I would love to get one of these for them. I think it would really suit them.

Leo Laporte Exactly.

Brett Larson I could see my grandmother wanting to use that.

Leo Laporte I want to use it.

Brett Larson I don’t know if my parents would want to use it though.

Dwight Silverman Well, I think there are some appeal to older people with the first of all you can make the fonts on it bigger very easily.

Leo Laporte Right.

Dwight Silverman You just have to touch it. I don’t see them needing necessarily to type a lot of stuff into it and I think if you, Apps will get better things like the Dragon Dictation App will get better. I suspect that you will see probably some of the voice recognition that was in the iPhone 3GS expanded for more use on the iPad and…

Brett Larson But is it going to be powerful enough for that?

Dwight Silverman I can see my parents sitting in the living room with it and tapping it, reading things on it, looking at media on it, I think it’s a really good device for people who aren’t necessarily interested in the pain that a real computer can bring.

Brett Larson I just look at it, well, I look at it from how I would use it and I see it as it looks like an iPhone that got run over by a steamroller, so it looks like a big iPhone. And I don’t like – I think that will be kind of nice to take to the gym to watch like a TV show while you are running on the treadmill but then when you are done, you got to carry it around if you want to listen to your music.

Leo Laporte Yeah, it’s too big for the music. I think it’s going to be a bigger success than anybody realizes because I think there are all these individual little use cases like reader, TV, gym and there is enough of those in a lot of different slices that people will buy them. I can’t wait to play scramble on it and so people will buy them and then there will be all these other uses for it.

Dwight Silverman Although we don’t – what I’m curious to see is what will happen with magazines because I feel like, I mean and this is, I’m not looking in a crystal ball, this is obvious. Magazines are just dying by the way, by – left, right and Sunday. This – I feel like if it was done right this really, this could be good for magazines.

Leo Laporte John Battelle wrote, and I thought a very good point where in which he says, look this is just more media lock-in, it doesn’t make sense in the age of the web to lock content into Apple’s…

Jason Calacanis 100% right.

Leo Laporte But there is a browser on it Jason.

Jason Calacanis I know but the problem is the whole selling of content he is going to try to put through there like he locked down music and it’s just that any publisher who supports this is, you know, if it’s closed like this, it’s not a good idea.

Leo Laporte This is what Jeff Jarvis says. He says it’s a step backwards. This is not the web as we know it, the open web and in the long run…

Brett Larson But does it have that e-book reader open format?

Leo Laporte Supports ePub, Yeah it supports ePub

Dwight Silverman It’s ePub, it’s ePub with DRM on it.

Leo Laporte Oh there is DRM, not…

Dwight Silverman On their applications of the books that they are selling it will be – have DRM.

Leo Laporte I think it’s…

Jason Calacanis I got some inside information that's pretty interesting about this.

Leo Laporte Okay.

Jason Calacanis I talked to a very large publisher and I was like how could you give Steve Jobs all of this information without getting the e-mail address of your customers because you are in charge of circulation, if you give away your circulation, you are crazy, and he said to me, as a major publishing person, no, we will not do it and I told Steve Jobs we will not do it unless we have access to the list of people who subscribe – who are the subscribers. So if you subscribe to X newspaper, the newspaper deserves to know who their subscribers are, so that you can contact them.

Leo Laporte Well I think that’s fair, yes.

Jason Calacanis And Steve Jobs rolled over like a puppy and got his belly rubbed.

Leo Laporte Well, was he wearing that hat that they talked about that he was wearing.

Jason Calacanis I don’t know, but he basically acquiesced. So I think.

Leo Laporte He has to acquiesce.

Jason Calacanis Well, he didn’t to the music companies.

Leo Laporte Yeah, this is different.

Jason Calacanis I know it is, but what it points out is, is that he is a great poker player and the music industry and the TV industry are not. The TV industry and music industry say to him, if people download our stuff we get their contact info.

Dwight Silverman Right. If he rolled over then then he got something as well.

Brett Larson Yeah, I feel like the example of the music industry, they desperately needed some, something to stop the Napsters and the LimeWire and all this rampant free downloading, they needed something and I really feel like Apple provided the best service for them and it was a great – obviously a great starting point because of all the things that have come since. With publishers, I’m shocked I would feel like they would be rolling over just as like, “please help us.”

Leo Laporte Aren’t the more desperate?

Dwight Silverman Well, they are not more desperate because they do have an outlet, they do have the web boost, most publishers I think have a stated strategy where they will give you a whole lot of content free – they’ll give you some that you pay for individually and then to get a really good experience which is what the iPad will do, they will charge you for those apps, you are going to see The New York Times app become a paid app. And they will be selling subscriptions out of that and so there is like a three-tier strategy and there were still be the free stuff. I think breaking news is going to always be free because that’s a commodity – what’s happening right now. But as things kind of spread out, you get longer pieces, and more thoughtful pieces and content that you really can’t get anywhere, Wall Street Journal model, you’ll pay for that, and you’ll pay for great presentation.

Brett Larson And also it opens up the door for some of the larger networks to provide sort of a freemium like the – you can watch CNN on your cable and it’s great and you can go to our website and get stuff for free and now for $1 a month, this is – I’m totally making this up, for $1 a month you can get access to our CNN archives exclusive content that you’re not going to – they’ll stop putting stuff on their website to get you to take it, because I feel like News Agency – the only way News Agencies are going to make money on the web, because of what you’re saying, news is just a commodity, everybody is doing it, is archives. They got – if you put that stuff out there and you could go back and watch news back when it was really well done, you might – [ph] people might be able. (1:14:35)

Leo Laporte When was that?

Brett Larson About forty years ago.

Leo Laporte Before Brett started to realize where he was going with this one; it’s been a while.

Dwight Silverman Newspapers have been doing this for a while, they – we put our archives at first behind a wall, you had to register to see it or even in the earlier days of the web, you paid to get to the archives, and slowly they’ve kind of been taking these walls off of it…

Leo Laporte Right.

Dwight Silverman Mainly because they thought there would be a lot of page views from archives and it turns out to that, at least for a lot of papers, that hasn’t happened. So video maybe different, it’ll be really interesting to see all these archives from history on there. But there’s also the issue of getting them on to the web which is not trivial when you’re talking about video.

Brett Larson That’s true. But there’s got to be – there’s got to be a reason to do it, a great example that I love to share because I thought it was genius, when I was – when I was at CBS couple of years ago, the Subway went on strike and that wasn’t the first time the Subway went on strike, so what CBS did is they dug up, I don’t know how because we had this antiquated type library that was like in a dark wet room…

Leo Laporte There was a guy, ‘I know where that is; it’s on the bottom shelf.’

Brett Larson Yeah, and there really was too.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Brett Larson God rest his soul. But there really was a guy, you go in and you’ll be like school shooting 1974, 104 street in Amsterdam, ‘go down the hall there turn left, bottom shelf, red tape’. But what they did was they put up all the news coverage of the Subway strike from the 1970s, so when we were doing this wall-to-wall coverage which local news is so fond of this – ‘oh my god the Subways aren’t working!’

Leo Laporte Right.

Brett Larson We could also say, hey this isn’t the first time this has happened, go take a look at what happened and see the resolutions and see the progression of it from the last time. That’s where – you can’t just tell people “here’s” our archives dig around, you have to give people – well this isn’t the first time a President has had a physical…

Leo Laporte You know who does that so well is the Daily Show, I don’t know who they’ve got as their librarian or their editors.

Dwight Silverman StepStream, they’re using a company called StepStream based here in Houston.

Leo Laporte Really?

Dwight Silverman Yeah, that basically does contextual searches within video.

Leo Laporte Because they can find anything, I mean, they’ll pull up, I mean, in real time almost. Like three hours later, they’ve got a clip real on the Daily Show and it’s just amazing.

Dwight Silverman Yeah, it’s a great company, they’ve been around for a long time they started out with a product that was similar to TiVo for PCs and they got over the consumer market, I think, it’s TV, Beyond TV is what it’s called.

Leo Laporte Oh, I remember that.

Dwight Silverman And they have kind of moved out of the consumer market and then are selling this technology to companies like – to the Daily Show.

Leo Laporte So they must – do they have – is it done automatically by computers or they have humans tagging it?

Dwight Silverman It’s done automatically.

Brett Larson They could be taking in the close captioning...

Leo Laporte Maybe.

Brett Larson ...and marrying it to the video stream.

Leo Laporte Oh, clever, clever…

Jason Calacanis There are people also – who will crowdsource this for you, really simply...

Leo Laporte Sure.

Jason Calacanis ...for a very small amount of money. Like tag this and then what they do is, they run two people against the same program and they’ll only put in the tags that match, and then they have a third person look at the deltas and figure out, oh, well this person said there is a horse, and this other person said, they’re playing basketball, oh, I see they’re playing the game of horse and basketball, whatever…

Leo Laporte Right.

Jason Calacanis So I think you have basically two people in India or Manila or whatever doing it.

Leo Laporte It’s like – it’s the Mechanical Turk kind of thing.

Jason Calacanis Yeah, or America – any place where you have low price workers available.

Brett Larson Utah.

Leo Laporte Utah.

Jason Calacanis Utah.

Leo Laporte Prisoners. Jason Calacanis does a host of shows now. He is the king of This Week in..., you now officially take the title. In fact you have, right?

Jason Calacanis I got the clearance from the godfather. You gave me clearance to buy it, I bought it. And I hope to build a couple of shows and everybody is like, ‘Leo must hate you.’

Leo Laporte No, no, no, no.

Jason Calacanis ‘How did you do this to Leo?’ And I’m like, listen I asked for permission. I genuflected and I said, listen godfather I would like to…

Leo Laporte I couldn’t stop you, Mel Allen, ask Mel Allen; he’s the guy who owns This Week in Baseball. It’s the generic, but I’m thrilled that you do it and I am glad you’re doing it. You do This Week in Startups.

Jason Calacanis Yeah, and it’s doing great and we do This Week in Cloud Computing and that’s got sponsors.

Leo Laporte And you’re doing a This Week in Android apps, right?

Jason Calacanis And This Week in Android, yes. So it is going to do like niche one that you don’t get to, and, as you know, I actually even clear with you like, ‘Hey I’m thinking of doing these ones are you going to do them?’ So I am basically like I respect what you have done in the space enough that I don’t want to step in your toes.

Leo Laporte And there’s plenty of room, believe me. I need more people succeeding in this because I don’t want to be the only guy out here doing it.

Jason Calacanis What’s happening is it’s very much like Weblogs, Inc. We have all these blog stories building on each other. I get one sponsor, then they buy yours, and you know I forward sponsored onto you all the time. We are educating them on this new medium.

Leo Laporte Exactly.

Jason Calacanis Like, it’s worth sponsoring and...

Leo Laporte It’s early enough that there’s no competition going on.

Jason Calacanis There’s no competition right now. In another two years, it’s on.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I am going to kill you. I am going to kill you, Jason. Yer outta here!

Jason Calacanis [ph] The swords (79:33) are coming out.

Leo Laporte Yer outta here! Jason Calacanis...

Brett Larson The garbage man’s coming to take you out!

Leo Laporte And the garbage man – if you find a horse head in your bed Jason, you’ll know where. Actually…

Brett Larson The snow clean up begins tomorrow. Leave anything you don’t need in the drift.

Jason Calacanis Actually this is my prediction. I predict that there’ll be three or four networks like This Week in and Leo’s and they’ll all wind up merging and be like this mega company.

Leo Laporte Yeah. I don’t want to run it

Jason Calacanis [ph] Adam Ferry’s (80:01) doing interesting stuff. No, I just think it’s going to be an exit for everybody because somebody will come and say hey let’s put five of these things together and get scale. You have five things making a million or two million dollars each. Put them together, all of a sudden you’ve got scale.

Leo Laporte Great idea.

Dwight Silverman And then you get rid of everybody.

Leo Laporte Yeah, that’s all right; by then I’m old, I want to be on the beach anyway. is Jason’s human-powered website that has great information on it. Dwight Silverman is at the Tech Blog at and you could read his stuff there, including his weekly linkroll which Dwight I had to confess gives me the backbone of the newscasts for the whole week.

Dwight Silverman Well I have a great time doing it. I think that I missed a link post yesterday because I was helping with our earthquake/tsunami coverage, and I felt horribly guilty and I thought of you Leo, I thought I’ve let Leo down…

Leo Laporte Yeah you have let me down. I don’t have any stories from Friday.

Dwight Silverman But we had good coverage from the tsunami and earthquake. So…

Leo Laporte No, yeah you did.

Brett Larson There was some amazing, amazing stuff.

Leo Laporte Really incredible yeah.

Brett Larson And really – I really feel like the earthquake and the tsunami, granted we just had one in Haiti and it was significantly worse, but it really showed the power of the Internet and social media and cell phones and used like all of the infrastructure that Haiti didn’t have that had to be flown in. They had, so it was an immediate like here’s what’s happening on the streets right now, you know [ph] as the earthquake happened. (1:21:31)

Leo Laporte It was, it was very interestesing yeah.

Brett Larson It was interesting to watch the progression of the news day.

Dwight Silverman And it was also interesting for us because we’re here in Houston, Texas and we were – we normally would have relied on the Associated Press and so forth but we were pulling in content from twitter, we were pulling in video from NewStream, we were pulling in, we were grabbing photos off Twitpic and putting them into a blog and so it gave us the ability to do the depth of coverage that normally regional newspapers just wouldn’t have.

Leo Laporte Right, right. Well thank you for being here as always Dwight, we really appreciate it.

Dwight Silverman

Thank you Leo.

Leo Laporte

And Brett I going to see a lot more of you. I have a feeling the next month or so Brett Larson is at, good old friend and it’s really great to see you again and looking forward to working with you more.

Brett Larson Good to see you Leo. Here in New York I’ve survived all four Snowmageddons and…

Leo Laporte Is it – how much snow is on the ground right now?

Brett Larson Well right now there’s none. It’s all melted. It was 40 something degrees today. The snow was actually up to my window yesterday, because I have a little balcony; up to the window.

Jason Calacanis Very nice.

Brett Larson And we got 36 inches of snow in the month of February.

Leo Laporte In New York City that’s something, that’s really something. Wow.

Brett Larson That’s insanity.

Leo Laporte Thank you all for being here. Don’t forget we do the show live on every Sunday at 3 p.m. pacific time, that’s 6 p.m. eastern time, 2300 UTC if my calculations are correct. I hope you will join us then and subscribe the show, you can get it automatically. We are doing – we are redoing the URLs. I think you will be automatically resubscribed to the new. We are going to do and I think it will all happen automatically and certainly does in iTunes but if for some reason any of the TWiT feeds disappear and you don’t see it, just resubscribe and more video coming from all the shows. This will be the first – our, I believe this week our iTunes video feed will be coming up. Just in time for Chatroulette.

Jason Calacanis Somebody just named the show.

Dwight Silverman Are you going to edit that Leo?

Jason Calacanis This is the best name, TWiT237. ‘I got one in two clicks.’

Leo Laporte ‘I can name that [quack] in two clicks!’

Jason Calacanis Another TWiT…

Leo Laporte Yeah; literally in the can.

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