TWiT 239/Transcript

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Episode 239


This transcript is provided by our friends at Pods in Print

Leo Laporte Audio bandwidth for this WEEK in TECH is provided by AOL Music and, where you can get free mp3s, exclusive interviews and more. Video bandwidth for TWiT is provided by Cachefly, at

This is TWiT: this WEEK in TECH, Episode 239 for March 15, 2010: Meat Up.

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Leo Laporte It’s time for TWiT! We are live from the Texas Coworking Center in beautiful Austin, Texas. Hello, everybody!

[Crowd cheers]

Leo Laporte Wow. It sounds like a crowd of 3,400 people, the same number of people that were at the Diggnation party yesterday. You think I could crowd surf this group? No, it would be a bad idea, wouldn’t it? I don’t think they could hold me.

To my right, Mr. Tom Merritt from Buzz Out Loud. Hey, Tom.

Tom Merritt Hey, Leo.

Leo Laporte Great to see you. Welcome.

Tom Merritt Thank you.

Leo Laporte Molly Wood is also here, your co-worker from Buzz Out Loud. Hi Molly.

Molly Wood Hello, good to be here.

Leo Laporte Thanks for coming.

Tom Merritt We’ve never been on TWiT together before.

Leo Laporte What? Is that true?

Molly Wood No, we were sort of together on TWiT at CES.

Leo Laporte At CES; you were together.

Tom Merritt Oh, that’s right, that’s right.

Molly Wood We only ever – it’s only ever on the road sharing a microphone. It’s our travelling roadshow.

Leo Laporte Right.

Tom Merritt I think I said the same thing on that one.

Leo Laporte But you were right on that one. No, we do try to separate you. We don’t want to make it the Buzz Out Loud TWiT, but it’s good to have you both.

Also, Sarah Lane is here. Hi Sarah.

Sarah Lane Hi.

Leo Laporte Great to see you.

Sarah Lane Great to be here.

Leo Laporte Yeah, talk right into the microphone.

Sarah Lane Great to be here.

Leo Laporte I know you’re a treacherous little ball of steel, but…

Sarah Lane Hello.

Leo Laporte You have to work the mic still.

Sarah Lane Okay.


Leo Laporte And look at – Robert Scoble’s wearing his tattoo shirt. It looks like you’re the illustrated man. That is awesome.

Molly Wood It’s so real.

Sarah Lane Your wrists are very wrinkled.

Molly Wood I sat down and I was like, dude, nobody told me Scoble had sleeves.


Molly Wood How did I not notice that before?

Tom Merritt

And they’re literally sleeves.

Leo Laporte There’s a tattoo parlor here on Sixth Street that spells tattoo with one ‘O’. And I thought, boy, that’s not really a good advertisement for a tattoo parlor; you can’t even spell the word ‘tattoo.’ You really don’t want to go in there and get, you know…

Sarah Lane Permanent. Maybe it’s a tattoo removal place.

Leo Laporte ‘My mather loves me.’ You know, that’s not going to work. There’s Dr. Kiki. Hey, Dr. Kiki.

Dr. Kirsten Sanford Hi Leo!

Leo Laporte So you all are here, why? What is going on? Is this some event in town?

Dr. Kirsten Sanford There’s some event, it seems to be kinda big.

Sarah Lane Woke up in Texas.

Dr. Kirsten Sanford I know. Austin, South by Southwest.

Sarah Lane Actually, I’m here for meat.

Leo Laporte You’re here for meat? We’re gonna have meat. Barbecue – is very big. I was going to – we’re going to have a little party at a Brazilian place after this. But I heard that this is a barbecue town. Scoble said we should have gone to a barbecue place.

Dr. Kirsten Sanford Maybe we can have Brazilian barbecue.

Leo Laporte It is Brazilian barbecue.

Sarah Lane There we go then. Two good things.

Molly Wood I actually – we discovered yesterday that you can actually get meat-drunk. So I think I actually have a little meat hangover today. I was swaying, I’m not going to lie.

Leo Laporte Oh you’re – okay, so, there are a lot of different interpretations of meat drunk. So what you’re saying is you got drunk on meat.

Robert Scoble I’m not touching that one.


Sarah Lane What? What are you talking about?

Molly Wood I didn’t – never mind.


Molly Wood I’ll just be right here with the coffee.

Leo Laporte So how does that feel, when you’re drunk on meat?

Molly Wood I was really – I was swaying and slightly delirious. I ate my body weight in barbecue yesterday. It was awesome.

Leo Laporte Wow, that’s quite a bit. That’s like half a steer.

Robert Scoble Were you at the Diggnation party?

Molly Wood Thanks, Leo. That’s actually…

Leo Laporte Sorry!

Sarah Lane He said half.

Leo Laporte That’s not what I meant.

Sarah Lane Just half.

Molly Wood Half a steer. Okay.

Leo Laporte It wasn’t a whole steer; it was a chicken.

Molly Wood What’s a steer, like about a ton? Super.


Robert Scoble Were you at the Diggnation party?

Molly Wood No, because I couldn’t be lifted for crowd-surfing.


Robert Scoble Because if you were, I would say you weren’t stoned on meat.

Leo Laporte That was a wild party; that was a very wild party. Stubbs’ Barbecue, another barbecue place. In fact I did have a little Stubbs’ Barbecue, because Tony Shea of Zappos has a party bus that was stocked with barbecue from Stubbs. That was fun. Did you go? Yeah, it’s The Happiness Bus or something. You’re a VHP, a Very Happy Person.

Dr. Kirsten Sanford Was it a good bus ride? You’ve been on the bus? Was it enjoyable?

Robert Scoble What happens on the bus stays on the bus.

Leo Laporte Let me put it this way. It’s a bus that comes with its own bartender. Robert warned me – well not me but his entire Twitter following, about overconsumption of alcohol here at South by Southwest – you’re not drinking at South by Southwest?

Robert Scoble I’ve had half of a beer so far.

Leo Laporte Wow.

Robert Scoble Yeah.

Leo Laporte Why is that?

Robert Scoble Because I went a little crazy last year.

Leo Laporte Well we’ve just learned that you can get meat drunk so maybe little later on you’d like to try that. And after get meat drunk you can crowd surf. That’s a thrill and a half. That was really fun. I got to do that at the Diggnation party.

Robert Scoble And you didn’t break anything bodily or equipment wise?

Sarah Lane How’d it go?

Leo Laporte No. Nor did I get groped, I thought I might get groped but I didn’t.

Sarah Lane People are respectful overall with the lifting.

Leo Laporte I think when there’s that many hands on your butt you really can’t call it groped.

Robert Scoble Yeah.

Robert Scoble Somebody said out in the hallway that they touched your butt and they don’t want to do it again.

Leo Laporte I was flexing. Clenching, is that the word?

Robert Scoble Clenching.

Sarah Lane Now the rumours of your buns of steel will go far.

Leo Laporte Well you couldn’t say it’s groping your butt anymore than you could say the floor gropes your butt when you lie down, I mean it’s really like a kind of a wavy mattress.

Molly Wood Was that your first time?

Leo Laporte Why? You’ve done this yourself?

Molly Wood No, I am asking if it’s your first time.

Leo Laporte Yes it is.

Molly Wood Unless you’re really a party girl, girls don’t really go in for crowd surfing.

Sarah Lane No.

Dr. Kirsten Sanford No.

Molly Wood No, no, no.

Sarah Lane Then you will get groped.

Dr. Kirsten Sanford I was talking to people about it last night and saying, well who would actually do this, and like all the girls I asked were…

Leo Laporte A guy.

Dr. Kirsten Sanford No. No. Don’t think so. Especially not with the Digg boy crowd.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Dr. Kirsten Sanford No.

Leo Laporte There were a large number of women in the Digg audience.

Sarah Lane There were.

Leo Laporte There were a quite a few girls in.

Sarah Lane I think more than I’ve ever noticed at a live show before.

Leo Laporte Yeah. South by Southwest is nice because it’s not a bunch of fat overweight guys like me and Robert. It’s – there is a lot of women, it’s a social – it’s really a social media conference more than anything else. This is my first time here. Is this feel like a typical South by Southwest?

Tom Merritt It’s far more busier.

Sarah Lane Bigger.

Tom Merritt Busier.

Sarah Lane 50% - supposedly this is the first year that interactive registration exceeded music, which is – I mean it started as a music conference.

Molly Wood Wow.

Sarah Lane Festival, so…unbelievable, 50%.

Leo Laporte Ger right up to the mic, as these mics are just not –

Sarah Lane ...50% more interactive folks here than last year.

Leo Laporte Wow.

Sarah Lane I mean if you walk down sixth street after 8 p.m. –

Robert Scoble Two years ago there was only one or two parties that had lines; every party has lines now.

Tom Merritt I remember being here when I lived here in 1993 and the music was it. There was the film conference which meant you can go to the Dolby theatre and see a bunch of films you wouldn’t be able to normally see and there was really no problem getting in any of them and then there was the CD-ROM conference, the multimedia – they called it South by Southwest Multimedia and there was a bunch of CD-ROM authors...

Leo Laporte Wow.

Tom Merritt the convention centre for a couple of days and now to have it actually outdraw the music is pretty mind-blowing.

Leo Laporte Do you think social media will go the way of CD-ROMs?

Dr. Kirsten Sanford No, I think...

Leo Laporte Is this a flash in the pan?

Dr. Kirsten Sanford ...I think it’s going to be a step towards whatever comes next; the Semantic Web and other things. I mean people are naturally social and so sociability – I can’t say the word.

Leo Laporte Sociability.

Dr. Kirsten Sanford Just make up a word here – that’s going to be a huge part of everything on the web going forward. So it’s not going to go away it will just be folded in to the origami of the future.

Molly Wood The whole – the social media part of it feels like a little bit of a bubble right now. I mean...

Leo Laporte Everybody you mean is a social media expert.

Molly Wood Everybody is a – well seriously.

Leo Laporte A consultant.

Dr. Kirsten Sanford I have friends! I’m a social media expert!

Molly Wood Like, no offence: don’t talk to me if you’re a guru. Like, really? Social media guru; come on.

Leo Laporte There are a lot of them

Molly Wood That’s a job? It’s a job. Like, that’s a bubble.

Leo Laporte Right.

Molly Wood If that’s a job, this is a bubble.

Leo Laporte That’s a bubble, yeah.

Molly Wood No, but there was that PR guy who wrote the big article about –

Robert Scobe What are you talking about? That’s my job.

Molly Wood I like – I really like your sleeves.

Robert Scoble Sponsored by [ph] Wrexleys. (8:57)

Molly Wood It’s not just you know a few people’s job is not a specialized thing, now it sort of feels like everyone is just like, well I’m on Twitter, so boom – guru!

Leo Laporte Yeah, if you don’t know what to put on your card, you put that.

Tom Merritt I have 500 followers; I’m a social media expert, yeah.

Molly Wood The town’s full of people.

Leo Laporte Right.

Molly Wood Yeah.

Leo Laporte But there is some stuff that is not a bubble, I mean it feels to me, maybe you guys would like to correct me on this, but it feels me that there is this real creative surge that is kind of the culmination of inexpensive digital hardware and content creation tools and this incredible distribution media, the Internet, and everybody here seems to be starting a company or creating a website or a blog or a podcast, there is a lot of creativity here.

Tom Merritt Yeah.

Leo Laporte And I think that’s why it’s bigger; it’s because there are more people doing this.

Dr. Kirsten Sanford Yeah there is also a lot of criticism as well though, people coming in who have been going to South by Southwest, this is my first year as well so I don’t have anything to compare it to, but a lot of criticism as to – the panel sessions are as creative as they used to be, there are a lot of people who are the web posers, people aren’t – this isn’t the thing that – people aren’t maybe getting what they thought they would get out of it.

Leo Laporte Right.

Dr. Kirsten Sanford I don’t know if what everyone else is thinking about that, like what you guys are thinking.

Leo Laporte One of my staff went to a panel on, what was it called, Lisa; how to do things for less? And they were showing you how to use Google Maps. It’s like – anybody who’s here I think knows how to use Google Maps.

Tom Merritt You don’t have to waste all that money on paper maps anymore.

Leo Laporte Exactly.

Tom Merritt You can do things for less.

Tom Merritt I used to do panels here every year, and then we started to do Buzz Out Loud instead. But whenever I was doing the panels, there was always this long explanation from South by Southwest about what makes a good panel, including stay on topic.

Molly Wood Yeah.

Tom Merritt Actually talk about what you describe and they can only do so much, they can’t force people to do it and it’s a big problem. People drift from the thing that they thought they wanted to talk about.

Sarah Lane There are also a lot of panels. I mean, there are so many options, there’s 10 panels to choose from.

Leo Laporte That’s frustrating to me.

Sarah Lane That’s always bothered me because I have to choose and I don’t necessarily know what I’m getting beforehand.

Robert Scoble Keep in mind a lot of people want to do a panel so they get in for free.

Molly Wood Right.

Robert Scoble And so it’s big competition to become a panelist and me, I don’t want to work. So I don’t want to do panels.

Sarah Lane There are also some bad panels, I mean I’m not going to call out any specific panels but I have been to a couple of panels where it was all I could do just to stay off my iPhone.

Leo Laporte I was at a God-awful panel.

Dr. Kirsten Sanford And some panels end up turning into marketing for a company. So you go in thinking that you are going to get information out and you find out learning about, “oh, this company is not …” I don’t know, you just don’t want to be there after a while because you’re being sold too.

Leo Laporte I was – I went to the Mark Cuban versus Avner Ronen panel, he is the Boxee guy and Mark Cuban of course the guy who started, sold it to Yahoo! for $1 billion and it was just – it was so annoying because…..

Molly Wood The panel?

Leo Laporte Yeah. The first thing Mark Cuban says is, “how much money did you make Avi?” And then, “well, we don’t have a revenue model”. “Well, I was profitable from day one.” And it was really – it was very annoying.

Sarah Lane What’s everyone else getting out of that?

Leo Laporte Nothing. I was getting nothing but fortunately the fire alarm went off.

Molly Wood I’m sure it was accident.

Leo Laporte I don’t know. They claimed that something went wrong with the water pump. But they evacuated the entire convention center and I’m wondering how many people actually went back to that panel afterwards.

Molly Wood It was a good excuse to get out.

Leo Laporte It was a reason to get out.

Robert Scoble Actually, Leo, one of things that’s cooking underneath the surface here is the future of TV. We haven’t seen a lot of it come out yet, like I was sitting next to the head engineer for Comcast who’s building a social TV system where you check in on TV shows and tell your friends, hey, I am watching Lost or I’m watching…

Leo Laporte That makes a lot of sense.

Robert Scoble And that’s coming out in a month or two, and – but there are several of those that are cooking here. If you get in the right party or the right dinner, you’ll hear about them but they are not out yet. It’s sort of like Foursquare last year. I keep hearing about this Foursquare thing but AT&T last year was down, so I couldn’t even try it out. It came out here last year. Right? That’s where they released it. But I didn’t have an opportunity to really use it with anybody last year, and this year it’s everywhere, right.

Leo Laporte We just saw last week, articles from the awards show saying the ratings are up significantly and they think – I don’t know if this is true, this is because of social media, because of people of tweeting, I am watching the Grammy’s and that kind of group tweeting, you think that that’s true, does that make sense?

Sarah Lane I think so.

Leo Laporte You watch more – I certainly was more interested in the Grammy’s because I was watching people diss them.

Sarah Lane Yeah. Well, that’s the nice thing about something like Twitter, is that all of sudden people start making these references to something funny that just happened and you want to be part of it.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Sarah Lane Switch on the TV so you can join the conversation.

Leo Laporte That actually – yes.

Molly Wood I bet it’s working for movies too. I felt like there’s a lot more pressure now, like if there’s a big movie that’s coming out that has a lot of geek interest I feel like, I need to see it immediately. Because otherwise I’m going to be behind the Twitter curve and I am going to get spoiled and it’s like it’s this whole kind of new level of social peer pressure that I think is definitely, I am sure it’s helping TV although I did see then, NBC tried to congratulate themselves on their time delay by saying that because they have the time delay, social media could sort of pimp the Olympics for them. And then I was like, “no, no, no, no – misread.”

Leo Laporte All the anger was coming from social media about the Olympics.

Molly Wood Right.

Leo Laporte That’s where it all came from.

Tom Merritt So you’re saying the live things are getting bigger ratings?

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Tom Merritt But what about delayed? What about things like Lost or…

Leo Laporte Well, certainly Lost does. I mean, everybody – I knew…

Tom Merritt Have you seen ratings bumps on those too?

Leo Laporte I don’t know, but I…

Robert Scoble I’m watching 24 because all my friends kept talking about it.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Robert Scoble And it got me interested in the show, right.

Molly Wood I wonder if this is the new way whereas before it used to be the television that the family sat down in front of where you all had this shared experience, and now because of social media when our media is splintering in all these different directions. Maybe the social media will start bringing those shared experiences back in.

Leo Laporte AT&T did keep the network up this time.

Sarah Lane I’ve had no problems.

[Sound of knocking on wood]

Leo Laporte It’s working.

Robert Scoble This is actually – it talked about differences between South by Southwest. This is the first South by Southwest where most of the major stuff I want to use is working.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Robert Scoble Remember, the last three years Twitter has been down every time when we come here.

Leo Laporte Twitter was down yesterday though for a while.

Robert Scoble Was it? It wasn’t down for me.

Molly Wood It was up and down.

Robert Scoble It’s mostly up; Foursquare and Gowalla are both – I haven’t had a single error message on those services and that's remarkable. When Twitter came out here in 2007, by the way it was after your show that it got high.

Leo Laporte Really. You think I can have some credit for that?

Tom Merritt I think so – I totally think so because everybody who was coming to South By Southwest heard about it on your show and started using it, going into the show and started talking about it. But it was down all the time. I was sitting next to Evan in 2007 going ‘why isn’t your service up?’ And this year it’s up.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Molly Wood Well, AT&T really staked a lot on it. We were talking about this on Buzz Out Loud today like they really realize that they could not afford, just PR-wise, another geek apocalypse like they had last year. You cannot have everybody whose on the cutting edge of smartphone purchasing and being online on the smartphone device talking about how crap AT&T is. So they really doubled down on it and it’s paying off.

Robert Scoble They did. One of the exec’s pointed to all the portable towers, at one of the parties I was at, and they put a lot of portable towers and a lot of brand-new antenna technology and brand-new software for the network and brand-new trunk lines that they brought into the town.

Tom Merritt

That’s great for PR and it will keep them from getting some bad press, but it doesn’t fix the problems elsewhere because they can’t bring a portable tower to every single place they have issues.

Robert Scoble True and in fact the same executive said, see those antennas, they are six foot and in San Francisco we are only allowed to use two or three foot antennas and we can get six times more capacity on these six-foot antennas but the city doesn’t let us put them in. So the geeks need to help us out and help get cities to put more networking infrastructure in.

Molly Wood Now they tell us.

Sarah Lane We have…


Sarah Lane Who do I have to talk to to get the six-foot tower?

Molly Wood No, really, [indiscernible] (17:00) tower.

Robert Scoble To be – to be fair to AT&T and I bashed AT&T consistently for a year because every event I go to – this is the first major event that it stayed up. At CES, I was walking around with three cell phones and only Verizon was up, right. The growth in the iPhone and the new smartphone device and the data usage that we all exhibit on these phones is many, many times higher than they ever predicted.

Even Apple, I have a friend who runs the Apple application team, the app team. He says take – when we initially pitched it to the execs, to add an app store, we thought we would sell X and they had sold a hundred times X. The number of device – things that we do with these iPhones is way off the charts for what they were expecting. And so I kind of a little bit…

Leo Laporte Yeah, but they’ve known that for three years now.

Robert Scoble True, true.

Molly Wood I am not going to let, I mean there are still studies that say they’re are $5 billion behind in infrastructure investment, behind Verizon. That’s what it would cost them just to catch up to Verizon.

Robert Scoble No, that’s not true. That's not true. If you took….

Molly Wood I read that on the Internet.

Robert Scoble Well, it’s not true. There’s a lot of things on the Internet that you shouldn’t believe. If you took every iPhone user and put them on Verizon, Verizon would go down instantly. Verizon’s networks could not keep up with the iPhone users.

Tom Merritt Is there any truth to what – I’ve read some theories too, that the way the iPhone maintains a connection actually exacerbates the issue, particularly for iPhone users?

Robert Scoble There probably is something to that. The usage model of the iPhone is completely – I look, I look at how people use phones. We use data on these things so much more than other phone users and by the way if you talk to Google executives their stats show that it’s true even on Google.

Molly Wood But all the studies say that the data is not AT&T’s problem; that the voice network is what’s so fragile and that's where they haven’t invested in the infrastructure the way that Verizon has. You are right, you are right if you migrated everybody overall on to Verizon, they would have problems too.

Robert Scoble When you go out on a tower – I was taken out on a tower. There is one fiberoptic to the tower. So if you’re saturating that, that link into the tower or whatever it’s gone. There’s only so many connections that it can keep. It’s a Wi-Fi problem. We have these problems with Wi-Fi at every conference, right. It’s expensive and difficult to deal with a lot of people who are all using their devices and all using a lot of data at the same time.

Leo Laporte So is there an app that one, in the way that Foursquare won last year or Twitter won in 2007? Was there a killer app, was Gowalla a killer app for…

Robert Scoble Gowalla, it’s interesting I have gone from 100 friends on Gowalla to just about 1,700 right now in four or five days.

Leo Laporte Damn, that means I’ve got to catch up with you.

Robert Scoble So Gowalla has certainly come on strong but I have 7,000 friends on Foursquare, you know. So I still think Foursquare is the winner right now but Gowalla for sure made a good push this week.

Leo Laporte There was no standout though on [indiscernible] (20:03) this year.

Robert Scoble No.

Tom Merritt It seemed going in like the idea was that stickybits might be the thing to make some waves because of the…

Leo Laporte What was that?

Tom Merritt The QR codes that could be slapped anywhere, and you could tag that. But it’s too much interaction; you have to walk, you have to see a QR code, you have to walk up, you have to launch your App, you have to scan it, you…

Dr. Kirsten Sanford Too many steps, already I’m tired

Robert Scoble Actually, the big fail this year was they just added this QR code to the badges and if you try to use it, the iPhone App works great, it recognizes the code instantly, all right. But then it asks you to sign in and I can never get it to sign in. The service is way too slow, and it doesn’t work. Well, just walking up to somebody like, oh, hey do you mind if I scan your badge, I mean – You know what, if it had worked a lot of us have been compared – if it had worked and it was easy to get into, we would have done it. But it doesn’t work.

Leo Laporte You know, what you need is more like a Layar augmented reality browser that you could hold up to somebody’s badge and instantly see the information…

Robert Scoble Well, tomorrow I’m actually going to be wearing a t-shirt with a code on it that is augmented.

Leo Laporte I saw that at, you did that for the Gilmore gang.

Robert Scoble [indiscernible] (21:13) on my chest, yeah.

Leo Laporte Yeah, that’s bizarre and there’s tattoos that do that too.

Robert Scoble Yeah.

Leo Laporte Yeah, we’re going to do a commercial; maybe we could rotate some people out, because there’s so many people here we’d like to see, Robert Scoble great to see you.

Robert Scoble Thanks.

Leo Laporte So nice to have you here, and will see you for meat a little later on, we’ll get you meat-drunk, okay. Dr. Kiki too, we’re going to send you away.

Dr. Kirsten Sanford Can I tell people that I have a panel tomorrow.

Leo Laporte Yes, what’s your panel?

Dr. Kirsten Sanford I’m speaking tomorrow here on Open Science, it’s a panel with Ariel Waldman, Natalie Villalobos, Jessy Cowan-Sharp from NASA and Tantek Çelik and we’re going to be talking about opening up science, Open Science, Collaborate, Corporate and Communicate.

Leo Laporte That’s going to be good.

Sarah Lane Yeah.

Dr. Kirsten Sanford I think it’s going to be a lot of fun, it’s going to – I think we have a lot of good things to say…

Robert Scoble Yeah, Tantek’s panels are always good, too.

Leo Laporte Kiki’s also the host of This Week in Science; a great radio show for science lovers and our own show on the network, the TWiT network, Dr. Kiki’s Science Hour which is every Thursday

Dr. Kirsten Sanford Yeah.

Leo Laporte On the network.

Dr. Kirsten Sanford Science Thursdays.

Leo Laporte Yeah, it is.

Dr. Kirsten Sanford Yeah.

Leo Laporte Because we have Maxwell’s House.

Dr. Kirsten Sanford Maxwell’s House from two to three…

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Dr. Kirsten Sanford Dr Kiki’s science hour from three to four and coming in April, Roz Rows, which we’re going to be taking a scientific ecological slant on this year from like 4:35 something like that, we’re just science Thursdays, it’s going crazy.

Molly Wood Now I’m a little meat drunk…

Unknown Speaker [indiscernible] (22:32)

Dr. Kirsten Sanford Yes, science drunk.

Robert Scoble That’s the panel I want to hear about; the science behind drugs…

Leo Laporte There probably is one actually.

Dr. Kirsten Sanford Yeah. Thank you so much for having me.

Leo Laporte Kiki’s studied that; you can go talk to her about that.

Dr. Kirsten Sanford Thank you.

Leo Laporte All right, thank you Kiki, thank you Robert, we’re going to invite some more panelists in here. You’re listening to this WEEK in TECH, a special edition from South by Southwest. We want to thank all our friends at Citrix for providing the where with all to make this happen, and invite you to try their gotomeeting product. Now Citrix, of course, is a very well known name in enterprise for remote access, they practically invited the category. Microsoft licensed their technology for remote desktop and they’ve made it easy to use which is where the gotomeeting product really just shines.

Imagine that instead of traveling across the country to meet with a client are across town to collaborate with a colleague, you could just fire up the gotomeeting software, takes about a second to start a meeting, you can either set it up ahead of time or even literally while you are on the phone call with somebody say ‘hey, go to’. Click the join the meeting button, here is the meeting ID, now suddenly they’re seeing your computer on their desktop, they see your presentation, your spread sheets, you collaborate on documents together.

I’ve used it to rehearse speeches, it’s just really great. I’m sure panelists here at South By Southwest are using gotomeeting to plan their panels, it’s the way you can collaborate with anyone, anywhere without ever leaving your desktop. Now you can try it free for 30 days, go to and an unlimited 30-day trial offer is waiting there for you, And we invite you to try gotomeeting – we thank Citrix for their help in making TWiT possible.

Jeff Jarvis has joined us. Hi Jeff; good to see you.

Jeff Jarvis [indiscernible] (24:17).

Leo Laporte You and Jake were at the Diggnation thing?

Jeff Jarvis Oh, it was a magnificent moment. [indiscernible] great thing (24:21) too, Leo, here were two of the kids; you really made their careers. And as you said, it was the first time you were on Diggnation.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis So that was really kind a goose-bump moment itself and then for you to find a new youth.

Leo Laporte It was fun. I don’t take credit for Alex, but I do take a little bit of credit for Kevin Rose. His mom and dad came up to me, it was really neat, and his dad said, I don’t remember, something like, your son – my son really got his start with you. And it was really sweet to see that.

Sarah Lane I remember his first Screensavers.

Leo Laporte He was the Dark Tipper then, or…

Sarah Lane He had figured out some thing…

Leo Laporte There was a flaw in Microsoft Windows…

Sarah Lane Yeah.

Leo Laporte It was a code that allowed you to broadcast a network message…

Sarah Lane That’s right.

Jeff Jarvis IM?

Leo Laporte It was not quite IM, it was…

Sarah Lane It was within Windows.

Tom Merritt [Indiscernible] (25:05) messenger flaw.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Sarah Lane And he was real nervous and he had a chalk board and it was like – and he was…

Leo Laporte Boy, I’d love to find…

Sarah Lane That was the first, that was the, that’s the monster you created.

Leo Laporte I’d love to find that and put that on YouTube.

Sarah Lane Oh, it’s out there.

Leo Laporte There is, I think, Patrick Norton’s first appearance on Call For Help and he’s visibly shaking. It’s actually really kind of cute. So, Jeff you are Danah Boyd’s keynote, and I thought that was – in fact there was quite a bit of coverage of it today. She talked about privacy and the kind of the disconnect between how may be you and I view privacy, and how the younger generation views privacy. And whether there is privacy even – you can even talk about privacy on the Internet.

Jeff Jarvis Well, what she was arguing was that if you look at the continuum from privacy to publicity that company’s come along and make assumptions, she was arguing, that people want things to be public which they don’t necessarily want to be public and fine. And I agree with Danah heartily about this.

The issue is not privacy, the issue is control. I mean control by data and what happens to it and it’s absolutely true. What she didn’t talk about that I always wish people like you and I Leo, who are public to a fault didn’t talk about the benefits of public-ness that we learn from young people today. And there is always that edge case, there was this horrible case of a young women who had an abusive father, who started her Facebook page and didn’t know when she hit okay, that things were public; okay that’s bad, and…

Leo Laporte But those are edge cases.

Jeff Jarvis But those are edge cases and I think that we are letting that rule us in a lowest common denominator. Think about this, the thing you asked before the break, that thing that’s going to let you picture the badge or the person is of course not to plug TWiG, but it’s Google Goggles.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jeff Jarvis And very soon you are going to be able to see this augmented reality where I can see something about all these people out here…

Leo Laporte Right.

Jeff Jarvis Like just directly from my machine.

Leo Laporte So soon you’ll see people’s names superimposed, their birth dates…

Jeff Jarvis Their embarrassing drunken photo, their embarrassing crowd-surfing photo, right.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis And so that…

Sarah Lane Their underwear.

Jeff Jarvis That freaks people, but…

Leo Laporte What was that?

Molly Wood We did a story on Buzz out Loud recently about some software that does that – you point your phone at someone, I mean, there’s an opt in and they have to be using the software as well. But if they are, then you point your phone at them…

Leo Laporte Goggles turned off face recognition, but somebody else has done it.

Molly Wood Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis It’s possible.

Molly Wood And it pops up all their social information.

Jeff Jarvis So is that an argument saying, oh my God, you have now made something public, well no, it’s already on the Internet. It brought it to us easier, it’s going to freak the privacy advocates and we end up with this discussion over and over and over again. Danah is brilliant and she is quite right about control and she is right to argue that we have to be careful about the implications of what we do and we have to be very careful about educating people of what they are doing. Having said that, let’s have our party.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jeff Jarvis Let’s have our festival.

Tom Merritt Yeah, we were talking about this a little today in relation to Netflix who’s cancelled their contest because of the FTC saying, hey you are, this data can be used to discover things about people that they would rather have private and so, because of concerns about that regulation they pulled the contestant. This is just movie information and there are definitely edge cases there, right. But for the most part people probably wouldn’t mind having their movie choices made public and…

Jeff Jarvis Lawyers, lawyers, lawyers.

Molly Wood And we were saying that in a world where Facebook exists it’s totally bizarre that Netflix would get sued for…

Jeff Jarvis I know.

Molly Wood For maybe revealing how many times you rented like some really crappy movie, like it just doesn’t seem like relative to the information that you may not know you are revealing because what this comes down is the control thing, it comes down to opt in. If I am opted in to revealing more information then I want to, that’s not acceptable.

Jeff Jarvis Or if you knew, if Netflix knew what they knew today about the power and value of that data analyzed by outsiders they would have changed their terms of use long, long, long ago to say you are opted in and here’s a method where you can opt out, otherwise this data in aggregate is ours. But they didn’t do that probably and so that’s where they are stuck now and we are going to see the TOS be the battlefield.

Tom Merritt But isn’t the problem with opting people in, I mean that’s what Facebook does that gets them in trouble all the time and it should be, it should be opt in; you should have the opt in.

Jeff Jarvis Yeah, but Facebook is a social thing and if the default becomes – people want to befriend me, but I can’t see anything about them, that’s not very friendly! I’m not doing it; sorry no.

Tom Merritt Misanthropes want to use Facebook too.

Jeff Jarvis I know; I have one.

Molly Wood Maybe you could have a trial period. Maybe there could be like a preview, right. Like instead of Facebook opting you into showing everyone everything. Like when they roll out this new privacy features and they roll in, if you haven’t changed your default privacy and they opted you into showing all of your photos, all of your wall posts, all of your information to everyone on the Internet, like there was a middle step, there could be a preview so that if somebody tries to friend you, there is a preview of their basic information, maybe who they work for and what the, because I do often want to know that, but I think that there was a way to solve that technologically without opting into, without opting in all of the Facebook users to really a remarkable overshare.

Leo Laporte Boyd also though pointed out that there is a generational gap in this that Jeff and I, our generation is everything’s private unless we opt into publicity and younger people she said and she has done a lot of studies of this think everything is public but they want to be able to say what’s private. Is that right?

Jeff Jarvis Right. The default is different.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Jeff Jarvis But you know it’s also true culture to culture, I go to Germany a lot and they’re crazy about privacy, but then I go to a sauna in Germany and it’s co-ed and naked…

Leo Laporte It’s opt in, but that’s why.

Jeff Jarvis They care about the privacy of everything except their private parts.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jeff Jarvis So the privacy of their private parts doesn’t matter.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jeff Jarvis That’s to us that seems kind of loony but everybody’s different in that way and it’s hard to come up with structures but I think that the risk we have here is that we are going to have this magnificent new social connected world and we are going to let these edge cases make us shutdown into our cocoons again. That’ll be a tragedy I think.

Molly Wood I think there ought to be a middle ground that we – one of the things we were talking about at lunch today actually, is this idea that South by Southwest knows where you are, so we are talking about Foursquare and Gowalla, and that a lot of us, there were three women at the table and we were all saying like yes, I’m totally not comfortable with it, like I don’t want to use Foursquare because I’m afraid I’m going to turn out a bunch of stuff that I don’t know how to turn off and you know like my stance on it is I’m not giving anyone my coordinates unless I need a helicopter to come and rescue me. Like it’s just, and I think that there is not…

Sarah Lane You’re not using Foursquare?

Molly Wood No, I don’t use it, and I think that it’s partly – we talked about the possibility that to a certain extent there is a gender element too. There may be an age element and then there is also a gender element, but I’m way less comfortable.

Leo Laporte [indiscernible] (31:22) feels that way, yes. She does not want to publicize where she is.

Molly Wood No.

Leo Laporte How about you Sarah, do you feel like that’s scary?

Sarah Lane Well, I’m just really careful about who – because it’s a two way street on Gowalla and Foursquare, you know people aren’t following you like they are on Twitter, you have to be friends jointly, you and I both have to decide yes, we both want to maybe come to each other’s restaurant.

Leo Laporte See, I’ve never even bothered finding that out, I just thought well, I’ll just say where I am.

Molly Wood Or that, or text.

Leo Laporte So you have to be mutually following to see…

Sarah Lane Yes, so I have to, you know I’m just careful about who I – what I tell myself is whoever I say is my friend on Foursquare is somebody that I would like to show up at the bar that I check into.

Leo Laporte Right. Because they may.

Sarah Lane Because I’m offering – that’s what I’m kind of offering.

Tom Merritt And I think that’s really what the debate is about which is levels of control, it’s not about private versus public it’s about how much do you want to make public and to whom.

Sarah Lane Right.

Tom Merritt Not because there are certain people that I do want to make it public to and that’s what Foursquare is about.

Jeff Jarvis Do you know you are doing it when you do it?

Tom Merritt Yes.

Jeff Jarvis That’s really the big issue, yeah.

Molly Wood Yeah; is something being turned on that you didn’t know what’s turned on.

Jeff Jarvis In defense of Facebook and that switch, and I don’t know the details very much and my son was talking about it last night, but they were actually giving you more controls when they did that. This whole argument that they made everything public to everyone isn’t quite…

Molly Wood They gave you more controls, but all of it, they made everything more granular and if you had not made any changes to your default privacy settings all of those granular privacy settings defaulted to everyone. So things that were previously available only to your friends because that was the default setting suddenly became available to everyone and then a lot of people, I mean, believe me, I found out a lot of things from people’s photos because they don’t know that like you’ve got to change the settings not just for the photos that you upload but also your mobile uploads, like those that might still be available to everyone.

Leo Laporte That’s a separate setting.

Molly Wood Like the setting is a separate setting, so the settings are actually so granular now that there is a lot of stuff that you might not even realize are still available to everyone.

Leo Laporte It’s interesting because Mark Zuckerberg himself got bit by this when that change happened all of his photos suddenly became public; he said, oh that’s no problem, except I notice he pulled quite a few of them back after that.

Molly Wood Yes, he totally did.

Leo Laporte No problem.

Tom Merritt He didn’t want to end up like the LifeLock guy.

Leo Laporte Did he get hacked, the LifeLock guy?

Tom Merritt Oh several times.

Leo Laporte Yes, yes, this is my social…

Molly Wood Looking at strangers photos on Facebook is a good way to spend a Friday night.

Leo Laporte That’s so sad.

Molly Wood And it’s wrong.

Leo Laporte See if you guys used Foursquare you wouldn’t have to be alone on Friday nights.

Jeff Jarvis Leo, What’s too far for you?

Leo Laporte That’s a good question. I don’t know. I mean I allow people to fondle my body parts last night at Diggnation, I don’t know. You are probably asking the wrong person, exactly. We are having fun.

This is our TWiT special from South by Southwest, which has been a really amazing event so far. Jeff Jarvis is here. He is one of the hosts of our show this WEEK in GOOGLE which is heard Saturday afternoons on the TWiT network and you can of course subscribe to that in iTunes; we actually have a theory that people – because it’s a Saturday show maybe as many people, it’s actually a very well listened to show, but maybe not as many people are listening to it as subscribing to it because it comes out Saturday so we’re thinking maybe…

Jeff Jarvis People have lives.

Leo Laporte They have lives. Maybe we should just push it out Monday instead.

Jeff Jarvis Yes.

Leo Laporte Anyway, we’re going to take a look at that. I’d love to hear what you think about that. Also with us is Sarah Lane, the great Sarah Lane who is of course a former host of this WEEK in FUN but a long time TechTV producer and host, G4TechTV as well. Molly Wood from Buzz Out Loud, Tom Merritt from Buzz Out Loud also and Molly’s new rant column which is, I memorized that.

Molly Wood I know.

Leo Laporte That’s what I do on a Friday night.

Molly Wood Okay, that’s an annoying URL, so thank you for that.

Leo Laporte Have you ranted about the URL yet?

Molly Wood No.

Leo Laporte That may be a good rant.

Molly Wood I’m doing ACTA and then I will get to the URL.

Leo Laporte ACTA; oh don’t get me started. One of the other things Danah Boyd said in her speech was that even though Buzz did nothing technologically wrong in their launch, she said from a technological point of view it was an opt-in thing. They kind of explained what they were doing. She said and yeah it was “a complete disaster”.

Jeff Jarvis Her point was brilliantly simple which was they mixed the private and the public. Your expectation on e-mail is that it is private and suddenly not understanding this new paradigm that Google lived under - zap there you are and within Google it was badly tested because within Google public and private are intermingled, it’s your company. And so it just didn’t work for the rest of us at all and she was very right about that. I think that's the, for a lot of reasons, mixing it with g-mail just messed it up.

Tom Merritt Why did they not beta Google Buzz when they’ve beta’ed everything else, in some cases for years?

Jeff Jarvis Exactly.

Tom Merritt And they just threw this one right out inside Google.

Leo Laporte Inside Google because it was a huge mistake obviously because Google engineers have different needs than we do.

Jeff Jarvis But it’s more than just the beta process, it’s also the expectation that we have out here that says ‘ok, they know it’s not done yet, alright, I can yell about this’ and that's the problem by not going beta. I think it was quite foolish of them not to.

Leo Laporte We are going to take a little bit of a break and then come back with more. We will swap some people in. Jeff, it’s been great seeing you. Thank you for being here. I really appreciate it. Come to our meat dinner, we are going to do, you and Jake please come to have snarf with us after this show. We are going to have a little party. In fact I might turn the live streaming rig on for that.

Molly Wood You should.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I should. Meat-cam, I want to surf meat, meat cam.

Sarah Lane Oh wow. Drunk on meat.

Molly Wood That's like Austin in a nutshell, all right.

Leo Laporte It’s meat and booze.

Tom Merritt Meet gone wild.

Robert Scoble It’s a meat up.

Leo Laporte It’s a meat up says Robert. Hey Robert, Robert, get Robert back, sit down for a second, because after I do the commercial I want to ask you about the Chevy Volt, because you drove the new electric car from Chevy can you talk about that? All right, come around. I’m just going to do a commercial for Audible and when we come back, Robert will join us. Also Mark Milian is here from the Los Angeles Times, and shwood. And he perpetrated a grand hoax last night which apparently was a grand success. We will find out about that in just a little bit.

Before we do that, I want to mention our friends at, a great place to get your audio books. In fact, I don’t even know why they need to advertise. I think it’s the only place to get your audio books anymore at least online. But what a great, don’t say that. No they need to advertise. They need to advertise more. What a great place to go - Audible saved my life when I had that long commute to TechTV and now I listen to Audible books whenever I am in the car, at the gym, whenever I am cooking dinner, anytime that I need to or would like to read.

I was just talking to Francine Hardaway yesterday who is also an Audible fan. And she said I had kind of stopped reading because my life was too busy and Audible helped me rediscover books. I think that’s one of the things Audible does really, really well. It gets you turned on to reading. Now I know that Tom, you do a podcast with Veronica called Sword and Laser and I know you also, whenever you do a book - a book, a sci-fi book podcast, you do try to look for those books on Audible before you say buy the paper version. Do you prefer paper or plastic?

Tom Merritt I actually – the thing that I prefer the most is electronic with text to speech.

Leo Laporte No! You listen to the Kindle? What is wrong with you?

Tom Merritt You can’t get it. You can’t do it.

Leo Laporte Any more – they’ve turned it off?

Tom Merritt Yeah. So you know the thing I like about audio books is that you know how much time you need to set aside to get the book done because, not that it’s a burden but when you are doing a book club, you need to – you need to get it done at a certain time. So it’s really good for scheduling. We are doing The Windup Girl right now by Paolo Bacigalupi which is available on Audible.

Leo Laporte And tell me about it. What is it?

Tom Merritt It’s set in a not too distant future where the main character is a calorie man, because it’s getting harder and harder to grow food and so there is a lot of genetic manipulation and copyright battles over the genes that make food and so, you know, I don’t want to give too much away before we get into it, but yeah it’s a great read.

Leo Laporte Well, I am listening to Demon right now because on your recommendation and I really am loving it. It’s even better than I thought. I really am digging it.

Tom Merritt It’s really good. Lot of – that stuff we are talking about an augmented reality.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Tom Merritt It shows up in that book, yeah.

Leo Laporte It’s his – Daniel Suarez really, obviously is a geek but I am surprised he’s is not here because he just obviously is into this stuff. All right, well let’s make The Wind Up Girl our pick of the week from Paolo Bacigalupi. It’s 19 hours and 34 minutes, you’re going to get value for dollar there, it’s a long book. And you can get it free by going to, actually you can get two books, so why don’t you get that and Daemon? And one of the great things about listening to these books is now you can participate with Sword and Laser and you can join their conversation at – is it

Tom Merritt


Leo Laporte The Sword and Laser?

Tom Merritt Well, actually no, ‘theswordandlaser’ is our email address; is the URL.

Leo Laporte And don’t go to Sword and Laser Pointer dot com, that’s a whole different thing.

Tom Merritt Don’t – well, I mean unless you need laser pointers.

Leo Laporte The Wind Up Girl, Paolo Bacigalupi, make that your pick. You can get it for free by going to Actually when you go there, you’re going to sign up for a Platinum account, which I recommend. Francine, I was talking to her, she said, ‘I signed for the Gold account and I wish I had signed up for the Platinum account because I keep buying more books.’ Get two books a month, really, you’ll be listening to them, I promise you., we thank them so much for their support of this WEEK in TECH. I’m going to add that to my cart right now, that’s great.

So hello there from Mark Milian from The Los Angeles Times. Great to see you, Mark, thanks for joining us.

Mark Milian Hello.

Leo Laporte Also to Mr. Brian Brushwood.

Brian Brushwood Howdy howdy howdy.

Leo Laporte Of the Scam School Show on Revision3, and our own NSFW on the TWiT network.

Brian Brushwood NSFW, it was like NSFW live last night.

Leo Laporte It was awesome last night. Look – what is that? You have an NSFW sticker or pass, what is that, Robert?

Robert Scoble Sticker.

Leo Laporte Get that microphone in front of your face, because I wanted to ask you about the Volt. You and I drove the Volt today, the Chevy Volt, the new electric car. Did you guys drive the Volt yet? Anybody?

Robert Scoble How the hell did they get us up at seven?

Molly Wood That’s kind of mean, Leo.

Leo Laporte Any of you ever drive –

Robert Scoble How the heck did they get us up at seven thirty in the morning to do that? I don’t know.

Tom Merritt That’s why I didn’t do it.

Leo Laporte I was there. I was there at ten. So it’s an electric car which Chevy’s going to be delivering – it’s the first electric car since the EV-1. So it’s been quite a long time since Detroit’s made an electric car. I mean Tesla’s an electric car, but this is a Detroit electric car, mass market.

Robert Scoble Well it’s not just electric. It’s electric that drives for forty miles on electricity. But once you go over forty, it switches to gas where the gas engine charges the battery.

Leo Laporte It’s not a hybrid. The gas doesn’t power the car, it charges the battery so you can keep going.

Robert Scoble Yup.

Leo Laporte So it’s kind of an unlimited, or a much longer distance. They didn’t give us a total distance. Or maybe they did, was it a few hundred miles?

Robert Scoble No, they said you could drive it forever.

Leo Laporte So long as you just fill the gas tank?

Robert Scoble Yup.

Brian Brushwood That’s actually my biggest fear with the electrics, is getting halfway out, and then –

Leo Laporte Exactly. Exactly.

Brian Brushwood It takes a long time for it to charge? Did they say how long it takes?

Leo Laporte If you have a 120 Volt AC, it takes about eight or nine hours.

Brian Brushwood Yeah.

Leo Laporte If you have 240, which many people do because of electric dryers and so forth, it takes about three hours. And it has some smart technology, it had a – for one thing, it had – has an iPhone and a Droid app. Which I think is very, very cool.

Brian Brushwood You drive the car with it, you can just sort of –

Leo Laporte No.

Brian Brushwood You can turn left and right -

Robert Scoble Accelerometer –

Leo Laporte It’s like that Hummer in Daemon that can – yeah.

Robert Scoble You can turn the car on, you can get it ready for you, because if you’re in a cold climate, you can get the car warm for you.

Brian Brushwood Oh yeah. Or here in Texas, turn on the A/C.

Leo Laporte Turn on the A/C. Now, I think that’s going to be a very big thing that people are not thinking about, is – it’s nothing to heat a gas vehicle, because the engine’s generating a ton of heat. When you’re heating an electric vehicle, it’s taking it right out of the battery.

Brian Brushwood Oh, wow.

Leo Laporte They even made kind of a point about climate control is kind of an issue on a battery-driven car. I don’t know what it is on the Tesla. But I’m sure the Tesla’s do better in California where you don’t have those extremes of heat and cold. One of the things they said is, we turn the seat heaters on because it turns out that it’s much more efficient to heat the seat than to heat the car. So they prefer heating the seat.

Brian Brushwood Do they have like, gloves built in to the – to warm your fingers?

Leo Laporte Yeah, that’s what you need, yeah. I think it’s great that they’re doing it. And it was fun to drive, it was a nice car.

Robert Scoble It was great.

Leo Laporte Lots of torque, of course.

Robert Scoble I got told to slow down in it, so.

Leo Laporte Did you?

Robert Scoble Oh yeah, I was squealing the tires around the S turns and they said hey! They came out and yelled at me, actually.

Leo Laporte Really?

Robert Scoble Oh, yeah.

Leo Laporte Were you alone?

Robert Scoble No, there was somebody in the car with me, she didn’t care.

Leo Laporte She didn’t mind, but the other guy…

Robert Scoble And I assumed it was like Car and Driver test track, you know.

Brian Brushwood That’s awesome.

Leo Laporte We were at a deserted shopping mall. That was a little weird, because we got in the cab to the shopping mall, the driver said, ‘well, it’s closed.’ What’s that? Shopping malls close on Sunday in Texas?

Brian Brushwood That would be the first I’ve heard of anything.

Leo Laporte That’s bizarre. Anyway, it was a closed down shopping mall, and we were in the parking lot there, they coned it off. That was kind of fun, because we could really step on it.

Robert Scoble Yeah.

Leo Laporte And it has some good pick up, they have a sport mode that gives you better torque, it was a little hesitant. Now you drive a Prius?

Robert Scoble Brand new Prius, a 2010 Prius. It’s better on pickup than the Prius. It’s also a little bit quieter because it’s only electric for most of the time. I never heard the gas engine kick in.

Leo Laporte It’s amazing. I asked her, does it have a little noise maker on the front so you don’t run into people?

Robert Scoble They have a pedestrian mode, so it’s not quite a horn, but it’s a little beep beep.

Leo Laporte Because if you hit the horn, people would go whoa!

Brian Brushwood Dude, I’ve wanted that for years, like a polite version of the horn.

Leo Laporte That’s what it is. It’s a polite horn.

Brian Brushwood And you need a third one to play La Cucaracha.

Leo Laporte You can mod it to do that.

Brian Brushwood Oh, okay.

Molly Wood When do you need that?

Brian Brushwood How about like ringtone horns that you just load up?

Leo Laporte Horn tones.

Brian Brushwood There you go.

Leo Laporte Quick, I am registering it.

Molly Wood Horn tones.

Leo Laporte

Robert Scoble That was at CES like 2004.

Tom Merritt I remember that, yeah.

Leo Laporte No.

Molly Wood No.

Robert Scoble It’s funny because the software is only 65% finished for the car.

Brian Brushwood Oh; that’s what I want to do is drive a car in beta.

Robert Scoble Well, that’s why they had us do it at the shopping mall. It’s not street legal yet. It hasn’t been approved to be driven by a non-employee on the street yet. And that’s why we had to drive it off in the parking lot. But yeah, the hacker – these things are all computer programmed now.

Brian Brushwood Wow.

Leo Laporte I can’t believe somebody has already got, and

Brian Brushwood Definitely pornography.

Molly Wood Yeah; it’s a thing.

Robert Scoble That’s horny tones.

Leo Laporte So are you – I mean you drive a Prius, are you worried about sudden acceleration?

Robert Scoble No, you know what, I was talking to a guy [indiscernible] (46:01) this morning and you know let’s be – there’s been, what, 50 deaths in 10 years that could be attributed – and it’s not to the Prius…

Leo Laporte There is a

Robert Scoble There is a horntones.

Leo Laporte The one and only MP3 enabled vehicle horn.

Brian Brushwood Yes.

Molly Wood That is awesome.

Robert Scoble All right. So there has been 50 deaths supposedly that could have been caused by some sudden acceleration problems on Toyotas.

Leo Laporte Actually, 50 is a lot.

Robert Scoble Over the last 10 years.

Leo Laporte Oh, okay, only five a year, well, then I feel better.

Robert Scoble Okay, there is 40,000 people a year who die in cars in the United States. This is a statistical anomaly.

Brian Brushwood You think this is this year’s ‘summer of the shark’? Where it’s just like: They’re on the prowl: Toyotas.

Robert Scoble I think we as humans don’t have a good way to measure risk to us.

Brian Brushwood Yes.

Robert Scoble We get scared of flying in a plane which is thousands of times more safe than driving a Toyota to the airport.

Leo Laporte Right.

Robert Scoble Right? And we don’t have a good way of – humans don’t measure risk very well.

Molly Wood That is partly Toyota’s fault, actually in this case.

Robert Scoble Absolutely.

Molly Wood Because if they had handled it better it could have just been like a service recall.

Robert Scoble It really did; suddenly they just totally rolled over.

Molly Wood They just [ph] biffed (47:16) it and they ignored it and they tried to sweep it under the rug and they ended up having to do a full scale recall, which is a total over-reaction and now they’re having to do all kinds of recalls on just stupid stuff. But it’s really – it’s their own marketing fault.

Robert Scoble I agree.

Molly Wood Yeah.

Robert Scoble It’s a PR problem.

Molly Wood And I’m not saying you are totally not going to die in your Prius, but they also [indiscernible] (47:32).

Mark Milian [Indiscernible] (47:31)

Molly Wood Like, for other reasons.

Robert Scoble I actually love having a Prius now, because people get out of my way.

Leo Laporte ‘He could accelerate at any moment!’ I mean if you look at this Volt, I guess fly-by-wire cars are the future. I presume this is all software, this car I mean.

Robert Scoble And that’s really the hard thing is how do you know that there’s a bug or not?

Leo Laporte Right

Robert Scoble You know, Steve Wozniak and I have been talking about this because we both have the same car. And he thinks that he has a bug in his car with the cruise control, which you have to turn on by the way. And it’s always overridable. And he taught me how to reproduce his problem – I’ve tried it more than 500 times, I can’t reproduce it, using his own technique to reproduce the bug.

Leo Laporte But it’s reproducible?

Tom Merritt Can you reproduce it in his car with you driving? Have you tried that?

Robert Scoble He won’t let us do that.

Tom Merritt Oh, really.

Robert Scoble And he won’t let Toyota look at his car. And no journalist has ever filmed him doing it. And the way you talk with him, because he says it happens at 61, 71 or 81 miles an hour, I know how the switch increments. It increments – if you tap it up, it increments one mile per hour. If you hold it, it increments five miles an hour. And he also – when you interview him he says, he doesn’t look at the right number on the right side which is the top speed that the cruiser will ever go. He says I can’t see that number and I don’t care about it, I don’t –

Brian Brushwood Are you accusing this of being a user error type thing?

Robert Scoble I think there is some –

Molly Wood I think we all know it’s a user error.

Brian Brushwood Come on. Seriously, what does he know about technology? Come on.

Robert Scoble I’m not sure –

Molly Wood Well, a lot, but –

Robert Scoble Maybe his switch is sticky. Maybe his switch has a bug. Maybe there is a bug. But I haven’t been able to reproduce it and I have tried more than 500 times. I’ve put 13,000 miles on my car already since July. I drive a lot and I drive a lot on freeway and I use the cruise control 80% of the time. I’ve never had a problem with it and –

Leo Laporte You’re saying it’s PEBPAS.

Tom Merritt PEBSCAB.

Leo Laporte PEBSCAB?

Tom Merritt ‘Problem exists between steering column and bucket seat.’


Leo Laporte [Indiscernible] (49:23) but we were both along the same lines there.

Molly Wood Well done, Merritt, well done.

Robert Scoble And I don’t really blame Woz. I don’t if Woz is having really the problem. And he’s Punking the media or whatnot. I don’t know. I assume he’s having a problem.

Sarah Lane Then why won’t he let anyone else…

Robert Scoble But I blame the media for not renting the car and trying it out. I blame the media for not forcing their way into his car and filming him have this problem, and I blame the media for not understanding the technology that’s going on. And it’s not just the media. The National Highway Transportation Safety Administration doesn’t have a single software engineer on their staff. So how are they able to understand the kinds of complex…

Leo Laporte They better get one.

Robert Scoble …issues that these cars are going to have. My car has radar that follows automatically the car in front of it; this is all computer controlled and it’s the first step along the road to getting a fully automatic car that you just punch in an address and it goes there.

Brian Brushwood I wonder if it’s the kind of thing, since there is so much software, I wonder if it’s the kind of thing you could go in and just get a flash upgrade, just start adding increments that bring us closer to [indiscernible] (50:27).

Leo Laporte Let’s not have flash on cars, that’s –

Molly Wood I think we’re close to having user upgradeable cars. There’s no reason that we shouldn’t have that very soon.

Robert Scoble The Prius we have does have a problem with braking. If you have an emergency stop the brakes feel weird, and people say they’ve had problems with that. They’ve actually just upgraded the software so that the brakes work differently to make…

Brian Brushwood But you still have to bring it into the dealer, right? How long until you just to hook it up to your Wi-Fi and it’s fixed?

Robert Scoble Well it’s the standard plug that gets you into the computer; people are hacking Priuses all over the place.

Leo Laporte I’ve hacked my Ford SYNC via USB, so you could do it. I think there is some real nervousness about liability and talking about PEBCAK; ‘oh, I put the wrong bios in my car and now it drives backwards’; it’s not a good idea.

Molly Wood Well Ford very cleverly in the last of couple of weeks came out with a big press release announcing that they’re basically doing both hardware and software firewalling in their vehicles...

Leo Laporte That’s smart.

Molly Wood …so that any kind of corruption that happens to the computer systems that operate the car cannot reach the mechanical portions of the car. And it was very good timing on their part; like extremely savvy media to say in the wake of all this Toyota stuff ‘we’re totally locking down our systems’, but it’s also really something that kind of needs to happen.

Leo Laporte I think it’s their corporate bias. I asked [ph] Tom [indiscernible] (51:37) if Ford’s ever going to make an autonomous vehicle, he said ‘unequivocally, absolutely not.’

Molly Wood [indiscernible] (51:43)

Tom Merritt [ph] I don’t agree with that… (51:43)

Robert Scoble Now why is that? You can’t – never is a long time, okay. I could say never in 10 years.

Brian Brushwood Right.

Robert Scoble And that’s pretty clear. But 100 years from now? Give me a break.

Molly Wood Not even – the Volvo V70 is like two iterations away from being a self driving vehicle. I mean that thing is so…

Leo Laporte Is that really?

Molly Wood There is so much driver control in those cars. There’s the –

Robert Scoble Which was developed by Ford by the way.

Molly Wood Yeah exactly.

Leo Laporte It’s a Ford, yeah.

Molly Wood There was a Mercedes actually that was demoed in Geneva that’s the closest thing I’ve seen yet to auto driving. I mean it was just – the driver controls [ph] in that thing are remarkable. (52:11)

Leo Laporte The Bliss System’s your car? Because the Bliss System; that’s from Volvo, Ford.

Robert Scoble No…

Leo Laporte It’s the system that let’s you park the car automatically.

Robert Scoble I have that.

Leo Laporte And it auto-detects people on your side and will not swerve into the lane when there is somebody there.

Robert Scoble There is a camera in the Prius that looks at lane markers and if you start going into the lane it beeps at you and nudges you back in.

Leo Laporte Right, and re-tensions the seatbelts, too, which I thought was a little creepy.

Robert Scoble That’s if you’re about to hit somebody, which has happened twice in my car. If you’re about to hit somebody, the radar systems ‘oh shit, my car is going to get wrecked’ and it pre-fires the brakes, grabs you on the seatbelt, you feel the seatbelt move…

Leo Laporte It pre-tensions the seatbelts, yeah.

Robert Scoble And that wakes you up and makes you look ahead, too, and when you touch the brakes it really is hypersensitive. It’s really – this is one thing that was a major disappointment with the Chevy Volt, Leo was that they didn’t put these radar systems into that car. And if you interview the guys at Ford who build the Taurus, 2010 Taurus, it has all these systems that use radar to warn you that you’re about to hit something or helps you back out of a stall. It has radar facing sideways so if you’re backing out of a parking garage and you can’t see around a big van or something, as you back up the car has some radar sensors in the back that sense if a car is coming towards you and beeps at you and says stop. It’s really, really magical stuff that is really safe. It helps avoid…

Brian Brushwood That’s going to be how it happens, where eventually we choose to give up control and it’s always going to be optional, but like we got used to cruise control, we’re getting used to radar assist. We’re getting used to seatbelts that hold you down and it’s just going to be one thing after another until pretty much it’s like ‘ah, just flip the switch.’

Leo Laporte Just hold me down and drive.

Brian Brushwood ‘Take me home, please.’

Mark Milian I don’t even know if it will be a flip switch; I think we’ll just suddenly look around one day and realize, you know, we’re not doing much in this car anymore.

Leo Laporte Right.

Mark Milian They just add [ph] options and options. (54:05)

Brian Brushwood ‘Hey you know what hasn’t happened lately? People dying.’ Like, to me it can’t happen fast enough. It’s like – we’re not good drivers.

Molly Wood So if your car actually prevents people from tailgating, then they won’t run into the back of you if a dog runs in front of the car.

Brian Brushwood Yeah, exactly.

Molly Wood [ph] It’s like boiling a frog. (54:20).

Robert Scoble Stories like Toyota set that back in the public mindset, though. They kind of don’t want to put that control back into the hands of a machine. When people are already unsafe, like we were talking about earlier, unsafe with handing over their life to a faceless but professional pilot of an airplane, they’re not going to want to give it to an automobile or a robot.

Leo Laporte The same battle goes on in the cockpits of airplanes; there’s a real distinction between how the Airbus and the Boeing allow you to fly a plane. The Airbus will not let a pilot make a mistake. But the pilots who fly for United said ‘we are not going to allow Boeing to do this, because we want the ultimate control.’ So on a Boeing you can put it into a fatal stall.

Brian Brushwood Wow.

Leo Laporte Because the software will not override the pilot.

Brian Brushwood I would love to be a fly on the wall of that meeting. It’s like, “explain to us why you need the ability to put your plane into a fatal stall.”

Leo Laporte Well, you’ll never know. Well, what is that scenario in Star Trek? It’s the Kobayashi Maru.

Brian Brushwood Kobayashi Maru, yeah.

Leo Laporte Now win scenario; you never know when you’re going to need to take control.

Tom Merritt So they need in and reprogram the plane?

Leo Laporte Yes, exactly.

Robert Scoble It’s interesting, also playing with the radar. Right now there are blind spots in the radar. If somebody cuts me off about a foot in front of my car, the radar can’t see it. And it actually can let you accelerate right into the car.

Leo Laporte Well that’s easy to fix, though…

Robert Scoble Well, it just needs more sensors which cost – these sensors are phased array sensors which are probably a few hundred dollars and they’re pricy. And the more of them you put in the car the more software you have to write and the more testing you have to do for the lawyers and – et cetera, et cetera. But there are some blind spots and so it doesn’t work everywhere, and it can’t prevent all accidents yet, so…

Leo Laporte Robert, thank you for coming back. I appreciate that.

Robert Scoble Thank you.

Leo Laporte I did want to talk a little bit about that, and I forgot to ask you.

Robert Scoble Both of the – all the companies that are playing with this stuff – is really cool – by the way, I love the display. Did you love the display in that?

Leo Laporte Beautiful display, yeah.

Robert Scoble It’s like an iPad display in your dashboard and it has really beautiful color and a lot of information about what’s going on in the car.

Leo Laporte I think you can see that in all cars now. I mean that’s really where cars are going. And Ford’s already announced, basically, they are going to have an app store. Everybody sees these apps taking off on cellphones. They’re going to put apps everywhere, including your car.

Robert Scoble One thing I was talking with the software guys there was I can’t wait for the day when they start using the Foursquare data that we’re putting in. You know; you’re driving down the street and your friends all love this restaurant that we’re going to for dinner tonight, why doesn’t it warn you and say hey, there’s a great restaurant down here or something that we all have decided that’s important for our friends to know about this place. Or Waze – have you played with Waze? It’s an iPhone app; W-a-z-e, it’s a crowd sourced traffic app. So if I see an accident happen right in front of me, I can report it on my iPhone or on my Android phone. Well, that could warn everybody else, ‘don’t go down that street because it’s going to be – ‘

Leo Laporte I installed that, but you need the network effect to make that work, right? Everybody has to use it.

Robert Scoble You’re all alone in Petaluma. ‘There’s no accidents!’

Leo Laporte ‘It’s okay here, if anybody wants to know.’ Thank you, Robert Scoble.

Sarah Lane Are you all texting while you’re driving?

Leo Laporte Yeah. That’s good.

Tom Merritt [indiscernible] become the next [indiscernible] (57:24)

Molly Wood Just saying…

Tom Merritt I think that that Foursquare thing that Robert was talking is actually isn’t that far out. I was just at a panel that Dennis Crowley, the founder of Foursquare, and he was giving he was talking about how their next step, in addition to making some actual money, is to take all of this data they’re getting from their users and giving it back in a meaningful way. Like what your friends are recommending and kind of like making that more Yelp-like.

Leo Laporte It’s funny. I mean, that’s exactly what Twitter says and all of these social media companies say; we’re aggregating data, we know it’s got some value and someday we’ll figure what the hell we can do with it to make money on it.

Brian Brushwood Yeah, I’d have thought that we’d have more of that data mining available by now. I mean now it’s like – it’s even harder to go back and find tweets from a year ago and the search – the real time search doesn’t go nearly as far back as it used to back when [ph] Surmise (58:07) was doing it.

Tom Merritt You got to pay.

Leo Laporte Yeah; maybe that’s part of it. But also I wonder if this privacy thing we talked about at the beginning of the show also might be some of it. People are also a little bit worried about the privacy implications; who owns this – do you own your tweets? Who owns these tweets? I think Twitter has come out fair and square that we own the tweets, right? So now what do they do? They kind of blew that a little bit.

We’re going to take a break, come back with more Mark Milian, he’s here from the Los Angeles Times, Brian Brushwood of Scam School, great to see you, Brian, and of course Tom and Molly from Buzz Out Loud. You’re watching a special edition of TWiT from South by Southwest. In fact in just a little bit we’re going to do East meets West, aren’t we?

Tom Merritt Yeah.

Leo Laporte Like in an hour. So we better hurry up, here as Roger – Roger is not in Austin.

Tom Merritt No, Roger will be on Skype.

Leo Laporte Okay.

Tom Merritt From the [ph] Costa de Chang (58:56).

Leo Laporte [ph] Costa de Chang (58:59) and then we eat meat. This portion of the show brought to you by our friends are I know they did your Sword and Laser website, is that right?

Tom Merritt Yeah. They do that. I use them for FourCast as well.

Leo Laporte As well.

Tom Merritt I bought the [indiscernible] that. (59:12)

Leo Laporte Why did you choose Foursquare?

Tom Merritt You know I tried it for FourCast because I was launching a new thing and I wanted to try them out. And so I gave it a whirl; they also sponsored the Buzz out Loud Meetup.

Leo Laporte Oh, that’s nice.

Robert Scoble So we’ve got to thank them again for that, because they provided a great space.

Leo Laporte Yeah, that’s great. I think Squarespace is fantastic. In fact we’ve been out to their offices in New York. Young guys who originally created it for themselves when they were in college. It’s both software and hosting; I think that’s one of the things I’d like to make clear. It’s not a blogging platform, it’s web site hosting package that includes some amazing software, templates just to die for, the ability to customize as much as you want or are capable of. I mean if you’re a CSS or JavaScript guru, go right at it. If you just want to be able to drag and dop the width of your site’s columns, you can do that too. Or you just can stick with the existing templates; they’re really beautiful.

Brian Brushwood You know it’s funny you mentioned the CSS stuff allows somebody like me who knows just enough to insist to want to manage my site myself, but to hire somebody to put together a killer looking site using all the custom CSS. So like the Scam School site or my –, actually I love the layout, and I never could put that together. I don’t know enough about CSS.

Leo Laporte Are you on Squarespace too?

Brian Brushwood Oh, yeah, yeah; is on Squarespace. And then – but now, every time I have a new item to add it’s super easy; I drop it in, I link stuff in and whenever – from time to time I’ll come up with idiotic publicity stunts and then when the traffic hits, it’s all scalable, I don’t have to worry about the Digg effect.

Leo Laporte That’s another great feature. We don’t talk enough about that; they use of virtual private server technology based on Java that means that when there is bandwidth needs they can – it’s very instant and you never really run out of bandwidth on this thing. And it starts at eight bucks a month, but I’m going to let you try it for free if you go to You can try it free for two weeks; import all your data from your blogger, your movable type, your typepad, or your workpress blog. It just imports the data, it will export it back out so you’re not trapped there, but you can try it absolutely free for two weeks, take a look at the statistics package, the incredible iPhone App that makes it so easy to post – I could go on and on…

Brian Brushwood Well – and the free is for reals free, they don’t ask you for a credit card or anything.

Leo Laporte No credit card, nothing.

Brian Brushwood You just give them a email and then you know after two weeks, I mean – that’s when you know that they know they’ve got something good, where there’s like no hooks at all.

Leo Laporte Right.

Brian Brushwood It’s like, no, seriously just try a little bit of it.

Leo Laporte Just try it.

Brian Brushwood First one’s free.

Leo Laporte Yeah., we will give you 10% off if you use the TwitCoupon code when you sign up, but it starts at $8, so a 10% off is like $0.80 a month, I don’t think it’s really…

Brian Brushwood And that’s for the lifetime.

Leo Laporte That’s for lifetime.

Brian Brushwood Forever.

Leo Laporte Forever 10% off. You know, this add copy better than I do.

Brian Brushwood I know a thing or two about Squarespace!

Leo Laporte I didn’t know that, really?

Tom Merritt He’s going to slip his code in.

Brian Brushwood No, no, no, I’m doing my best to not.

Leo Laporte That’s very good. What is your code?

Brian Brushwood Scamschool.

Leo Laporte You can use that if you want.

Brian Brushwood Yeah.

Leo Laporte You choose who you like better. Squarespace – we don’t really care.

Molly Wood

ey, you guys should have a meat-off later.

Leo Laporte We will. Okay, are you…

Molly Wood And then whoever eats the most – well ok. You know what; this is getting all wrong. I’m not going to talk out loud anymore.

Leo Laporte It went very wrong, very fast. Now this is why we don’t have autonomous vehicles.

Leo Laporte Give it a try, I think you’ll like it. Did you – now we’re all here, we’re not reading The New York Times or anything, but front page of the business section of The New York Times: Apple’s Spat With Google Is Getting Personal. They’re talking about how Eric Schmidt who was once friends with Steve Jobs is now a – I mean, these guys are going at each other’s throats with a lawsuit against HTC which was kind of a proxy for Google in this case. Google doing things like putting multi-touch in the Droid after – or Android, the Nexus One I should say, after saying they wouldn’t do it; it’s quite a battle. The Times interviewed two dozen industry watchers, silicon valley investors and current and former employees at both Apple and Google, most of whom requested anonymity and they say this offers an unusually vivid display of enmity and ambition between Jobs and Schmidt.

Brian Brushwood Which is so weird because when the iPhone launched I mean there was – it was covered in Google, dripping with Google all over it.

Leo Laporte That’s exactly right.

Molly Wood Schmidt was up on stage.

Leo Laporte He was on stage.

Molly Wood Yeah.

Leo Laporte What happened? What went wrong?

Brian Brushwood I don’t know.

Mark Milian Jobs kind of almost seems like he feels betrayed by Android. It seems like – you look at that HTC suit, and the vast majority of these patents that they’re calling out are software patents, they’re Google Android patents. There’s multi–touch –

Leo Laporte Nothing to do with hardware, nothing to do with hardware.

Mark Milian Really it’s very much divorced from HTC in the most part.

Leo Laporte But why didn’t they go after Google? Why didn’t they sue Google?

Molly Wood Would you sue Google?

Leo Laporte Yeah, right.

Molly Wood Like, would you start with Google? You’d totally start with HTC, and then you’d get some precedents established, and you’d move on down the line.

Leo Laporte And it’s the soft underbelly, because you can keep the handsets off the market, you don’t really have to worry about Android so much.

Molly Wood Exactly. Yeah; it’s really personal and you have to wonder about how much of it might be, like, how long Schmidt sat on that board just kind of harvesting ideas and then going off and…

Leo Laporte Well that’s got to –

Molly Wood … putting out phones that really look the same. It’s [ph] got to chop him. (1:04:16)

Leo Laporte That’s got to feel bad. Yeah, he says – Jobs says ‘We didn’t enter the search business, they entered the phone business. Make no mistake; Google wants to kill the iPhone. We won’t let them.’

Tom Merritt I mean, patents are very much a wall that companies put up. They – when you look at the Nokia suit, Nokia came after Apple and then Apple counter-sued because they have their own patents that Nokia’s stepping on. So I mean, maybe Apple’s patent lawyers looked and said, well, I don’t think HTC really has anything on us, so let’s go for them. I’m sure that Google has some patents that they could easily have thrown back in Apple’s face.

Leo Laporte Well that’s usually what you do in a lawsuit like this, right? You say – these suits go away because you say, well if you’re going to sue us, well we have some patents we could sue you with.

Tom Merritt I am curious what would have happened if Schmidt hadn’t been forced to leave Apple.

Leo Laporte The Board?

Tom Merritt Yeah. The Apple Board. Because it seems like he left then all this Android stuff started to become a problem.

Leo Laporte Right.

Tom Merritt As if Jobs thinks or may be other people at Apple think he took a bunch of stuff he knew that he shouldn’t have known with him and we don’t like it.

Leo Laporte Right.

Tom Merritt Would they still be going after all of this stuff because honestly I don’t believe he did, I believe all that stuff was probably already in development; it’s pretty common stuff, and you would want to make it look like that. So is it just – could it just be sour grapes?

Leo Laporte They quote one anonymous Silicon Valley venture capitalist who says, “It’s World War III. Amazing animosity is motivating two of the most powerful people in the industry. This is emotional. This is the biggest ego battle in history. It’s incendiary.”

Leo Laporte & Molly Wood ‘Sunday, Sunday, Sunday!’

Leo Laporte Jinx! I think it must have been Calacanis said that, don’t you think? That sounds like Jason right there.

Molly Wood Anonymously.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Molly Wood Yeah it sounds very personal. And I think that what you said about the patent war Mark is the – is another part of the reason that they didn’t name Google in the lawsuit at first. Like they can name HTC now and then they don’t have to do the patent trading with Google and Google can’t do much, right now they’re sitting on the sidelines with a bunch of patents going like we have geolocation you bastards!

Tom Merritt They’ve still issued their statement, they jumped in there like, ‘we’re behind HTC.’

Leo Laporte Yeah and Schmidt said, I think ‘Jobs is the best CEO in history’, but according to again these interviews, you’ve been behind I am sure somewhat involved Mark at the times in these kinds of stories. They get a lot of deep background stuff, nobody wants to go on record but they’ve got quote after quote after quote and there’s obviously a lot of people who think something’s going on.

Mark Milian Yeah, I am sure.

Leo Laporte They can’t name names though. According to some of these interviews many of the meetings between Apple and Google started turning confrontational very early on.

Brian Brushwood I love that language because I just picture two guys in suits they are like [ph] pulling up, they’re like, no (67:05), I’m going to get it.

Leo Laporte According to people familiar with the discussions, Mr. Jobs often accused Google of stealing iPhone features. Google executives said that Android’s features were based on longstanding ideas already circulating in the industry and some Android prototypes pre-dated the iPhone. At one particularly heated meeting I am reading from The New York Times here in 2008 two years ago on Google’s campus Mr. Jobs angrily told Google executives that if they deployed a version of multi-touch he would sue. Two people briefed in the meeting described it as fierce and heated.

Brian Brushwood But what exactly is their ownership of multi-touch? Because the technology has been around 20 years.

Leo Laporte It’s a sucky, weak patent I think.

Molly Wood It’s an interface patent largely, right? They don’t necessarily...

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Molly Wood ...they don’t have a lot of technology patents as I understand it on multi-touch, but they have a lot of the actual idea patents, the ones that are...

Mark Milian Applications.

Molly Wood fuzzy and annoying, right, like how you do it? So not the technology behind the fact that you can swipe to unlock but the actual gesture of swiping to unlock, it’s like they patented a version of like click and drag.

Mark Milian Right. And another one of those patents is, if you click to delete an item then the screen rearranges itself so that there’s not like, a gaping hole.

Brian Brushwood That’s a patent?

Mark Milian ...that’s a patent.

Leo Laporte We’re going to leave a hole.

Molly Wood There’s no question, though, it seems like there’s no question that Apple is furious that Google came out with something it looks lot like the iPhone.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Molly Wood And they did.

Leo Laporte But if anything Google has scooped them in some cases. The AdMob acquisition is one thing Apple reportedly was offering $600 million for AdMob, the mobile advertising agency, Google snagged them, that mustn’t feel too good. AdMod had agreed to a 45-day no shop provision while Apple was conducting due diligence, but after Apple let the 45-days pass; Google snapped them up.

Tom Merritt So it sounds like the anger existed before Schmidt left the Board.

Leo Laporte Exactly.

Tom Merritt And as soon as he left...

Leo Laporte That’s what this article [indiscernible] (1:08:54) public.

Tom Merritt ...they had Steve – Steve could stop being nice about it, in public anyway.

Leo Laporte Yeah, exactly.

Robert Scoble One of the most interesting things about this is that Google almost never pick sides. I mean for example, Google has somebody on the HTML5 [ph] stat (1:09:08) like which is the biggest challenger to Adobe’s video stance on the web. But they’re also partnering with Adobe, to like figure out how to improve Adobe’s video product. In all of these different sections they try to like, be this like nice guy, we are not going to pick one side, one team or the other but it’s clear that there is something brewing between Apple and Google and that Google is taking a stand and they’re behind HTC and they have a position in mobile.

Leo Laporte Is there a clear winner here? Who wins in an Apple, Google cage match?

Brian Brushwood Well that’s the weird part is, is how do you extract the two, I mean it’s like could Google just not be supported on the iPhone, I mean could they just yank out of all the Googleness in there or...

Leo Laporte Well remember we heard rumors, I don’t know if they were rumors or true, I am starting to think maybe it was true that Apple was talking to Microsoft about putting Bing on the iPhone instead of Google as it’s default search.

Brian Brushwood Wow.

Leo Laporte That would be a huge blow.

Brian Brushwood Yeah.

Leo Laporte And now I believe it. I didn’t believe it at the time. I thought, oh, that’s not going to be – that couldn’t be –

Tom Merritt It’s like that scene in pirate of Silicon Valley when Bill Gates shows up on the screen with Microsoft Office for the Mac.

Leo Laporte That was creepy wasn’t it.

Tom Merritt You’d see Bing at a keynote with Steve Jobs recommending it. That it would be – it’s almost unthinkable.

Leo Laporte It damages Apple, doesn’t it?

Brian Brushwood What, the whole conflict or?

Leo Laporte The lawsuits damage Apple I think.

Brian Brushwood I think so. I think it damages their reputation and it also – it’s like, what did they expect? Do they expect that everyone would just stand back while the iPhone just ran away? And I want to know what they have been doing with their lead for the last two years because it’s like – I am looking at the DROID, I am looking at the Google Nexus One and it’s like what are you guys doing, Apple.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I remember talking to Steve Jobs when he was at Pixar about Apple’s lead with Macintosh. He said we had a 10 year lead on Microsoft and we let it slip away. And in 10 years they came out with Windows 95 and it was all over. He was very clear that you cannot let these technology leads go – slip. You’ve got to stay ahead.

Brian Brushwood It’s like – I mean I’m looking at – okay no, go ahead.

Molly Wood I was just going to say you can’t sit back and rely on your patent library.

Brian Brushwood Yeah.

Molly Wood To keep people out of the market and that’s where it hurts them is they start to look really anti-competitive because they are trying to get injunctions against even selling these phones or importing them into United States: that’s just ludicrous.

Brian Brushwood Maybe it’s a side effect of how monstrous their lead was early on both from a technological standpoint and from a perception standpoint. I mean they were standing so far out of the crowd, maybe it’s very attractive to just do your profit taking at that time, but meanwhile it’s like – it’s been what almost three years now and this is virtually identical to what I stood in line for.

Leo Laporte Exactly, we have to – everybody has told me because I switched to the Nexus One and everyone said, oh, you’ll switch back when iPhone 4 comes out. Well, I’ll be curious.

Brian Brushwood Still waiting to hear about it.

Leo Laporte Yeah, let’s hear about iPhone 4. When is that going to be?

Tom Merritt Yeah, is there an iPhone 4? Is it going to be a significant advance? I don’t feel the rumor level supports – we don’t have crazy enough rumors to support a decent advance.

Brian Brushwood Do you think that this is a case of iPad distraction where it takes them away from their core focus?

Tom Merritt Yeah.

Leo Laporte How many of you ordered iPads?

Brian Brushwood Not me.

Leo Laporte Robert Scoble. Thank you very much. Robert did. I ordered four. You can only order two at a time. So I had my henchman order two.

Robert Scoble Leo, we’re going to have a party, April 2nd Palo Alto store.

Leo Laporte I’ll be there.

Robert Scoble

All night long.

Leo Laporte I don’t think there’ll be lines though because you can order for delivery on Saturday.

Robert Scoble There won’t be lines but there will be parties.

Leo Laporte I’ll be there. No, you know I don’t like to that because it looks like I am cheerleading for the device and I don’t – I really don’t want to cheerlead for the device. I ordered four because well, first of all, we have to give one to lisatickledpink. By the way –

Molly Wood Yeah you do.

Leo Laporte That has succeeded beyond my wildest dreams. In fact, Lisa I think is in love with me now.

Tom Merritt Ahh.

Leo Laporte Lisa – this was a – Kevin Rose picked her out of a hat, basically. A Twitter user who had just signed up, had three followers, had only tweeted once, and her tweet was ‘I hate technology’. Kevin searched for that and he found her and we because of Conan – we decided that we would do what Conan did. He followed, what was her name, lonelylittletoe, I can’t remember, what it was, lonely – lovelybutton [indiscernible] (73:04) –

Tom Merritt I just remember [indiscernible] (73:04).

Leo Laporte lovelybutton, who is now I think 27,000 followers. But it’s a horse race, because lisatickledpink since our show last week, in one week, has 22,677 followers

Brian Brushwood Wow.

Leo Laporte And she is total – I feel lucky, she’s totally into it.

Brian Brushwood You know what I love. I love not only that you’re doing this. But I love that you saying that got the kind of response as if you said and she won the lottery.

Leo Laporte Well, she did.

Brian Brushwood And she cured cancer.

Leo Laporte Well, she did; she got an iPad!

Molly Wood Wow. Now she has a lot of [ph] literal net (73:38) rude replies all the time to her Tweets.

Leo Laporte She did at first. People were a little mean, and now she has a lot of friends. And she is actually really excited about it– I actually talked to her. A Kiwi radio station brought her in and I Skyped in and we talked and I apologized and she was very nice about it. She’s a design student in Auckland, New Zealand. She’s got a project that she thinks this actually helps promote and she’s started to really enjoy the fact that she’s got this –

Brian Brushwood So what you are saying she is drunk with power now is what you’re saying.

Leo Laporte And she is going to get an iPad. So one of those four I ordered will be shipped to her immediately on April 3rd and then the other one will go to one of her followers – we’ll pick at random from all of her followers on April 3rd and give an iPad to one of them. So that counts for two of them. Then one is for me.

Brian Brushwood Now what surprises are you hoping for from the iPad?

Leo Laporte Well, I don’t think there will be many surprises. I think what’s going to be surprising to people who haven’t touched it. I have held it. You held it, Molly, right? You didn’t get a chance to play with it? Tom, did you get a chance to –

Tom Merritt No.

Brian Brushwood So universally, though, everyone who has touched it says they love it.

Leo Laporte And I think that’s where the surprise will be is when people get it – oh, yeah, I get what you’re saying. It’s not just a blown up iPod touch. It really is something that happens when that screen gets to that size and the touch interface.

Brian Brushwood It’s when you get infected by the bugs by touching it.

Leo Laporte But we’ll see. I am not cheerleading for it. I just – I think it’s going to be a successful product.

Brian Brushwood I hope I am surprised but I am very, very skeptical right now.

Leo Laporte It will be interesting to see and we’ll find out.

Tom Merritt My thing is that I already have a laptop that I am going to bring around with me and I write for a living, so…

Leo Laporte You are not going to write on that.

Tom Merritt …yeah, I am not, yeah, I am not going to want to write – I can’t like use this to replace my laptop in any scenario when I am watching a movie and then I’ll switch over, I’ll write a blog – oh, no; not on the screen.

Brian Brushwood Here is what I hope it is, is it’s that original iPod effect. When the iPod first came out, people were, it was just clunky enough that people like I don’t get it and it wasn’t until it got svelter and more useful and started adding little things like games; you’re like oh no, no I get it and then it became the must have thing for everyone. Maybe that will be, maybe this first generation is just to get the ball rolling.

Tom Merritt But I still don’t think that it’s what Apple needs to do to maintain the iPhone.

Brian Brushwood Exactly. I think it’s very…

Tom Merritt And that iPad distraction point is really good, because even as good as the iPad is going to be, it’s not going to sell like the iPhone did.

Brian Brushwood No.

Tom Merritt Even if it’s the perfect device.

Leo Laporte And where are the new Macs – where are the new Mac books? We haven’t seen new notebooks. They are way overdue. There is an Intel chip that I thought Apple would jump on, the Arrandale chipset.

Brian Brushwood This is a mistake that I remember feeling like Microsoft made a decade or two ago where it’s like you guys are too diverse, it’s like I don’t know what Microsoft means anymore. It means video games and broken OSs.

Leo Laporte I think what – it seems clear is Apple is moving into consumer space and they are less interested. I was very worried about this in the Mackintosh and OS 10 is less compelling for them. It’s not as profitable, can’t control it. It’s more open. There is a lot of profit to be made in their closed ecosystem built around an iPhone, iPod and iPad.

Brian Brushwood Yeah.

Leo Laporte That’s I think that’s where Apple – it’s going to be a consumer electronics company. So Brian tell us about the scam that you did last night. How is that going?

Brian Brushwood It was quite a night last night, wasn’t it?

Molly Wood Oh you devil.

Leo Laporte I think it’s all a bad dream. I don’t know what happened last night.

Brian Brushwood First of all. Did you guys already talk about Leo crowd surfing last night at Diggnation?

Leo Laporte A little bit. That was fun.

Brian Brushwood That was amazing.

Tom Merritt That was hilarious.

Brian Brushwood So we had our friends from the Universal Records’ database and what’s funny is the folks at Revision3 they knew I was doing the Scam School live and they said hey; have you heard of the Universal Records’ database which, for those who don’t know, is basically like the Wikipedia of world records.

Leo Laporte I got a patch. I broke a record last night for the world’s longest crowd surfing live stream.

Brian Brushwood That's awesome. That’s awesome.

Leo Laporte I think it’s the only…

Molly Wood Congratulations.

Leo Laporte …crowd surfing live stream.

Brian Brushwood Well, and that’s the thing; is you can’t have a record for the only or the first. I guess you could have it for the only. Yeah, so you got to have a definable aspect to it and the standards for evidence are you just got to have some video, have your friend take a video or whatever but if there’s not an existing category, you could make up the category as long as it’s approved, you can get world records.

Leo Laporte So you broke some world records last night.

Brian Brushwood Yes, in fact I stole Jimmy Fallon’s record for the most drawn-on moustaches in 30 seconds. I went all up and down the front of the line and just I drew…

Leo Laporte How many?

Brian Brushwood …26 moustaches.

Leo Laporte Oh man.

Brian Brushwood In 30 seconds.

Leo Laporte So you mean there are people walking around today with a sharpie moustache?

Brian Brushwood Yeah, it was actually – for the rest of the night, they wanted to take pictures with me, and they had these big Dirty Sanchez...

[Audience groans]

Brian Brushwood But the…

Leo Laporte Wait a minute, I’ve got to look that up.

Brian Brushwood No, you don’t, no you don’t.

Molly Wood No, no, no, no, no…

Leo Laporte Urban Dictionary…

Molly Wood Definitely do not look that up no.

Brian Brushwood But what happened was that they said we wanted to do something with the URDB. You’re clever, creative, come up with something and Justin my co-host from NSFW, we started banging around ideas…

Leo Laporte Yeah; come on over here.

Brian Brushwood Yeah, come on over here, Justin and of course Brett Rounsaville, the Amtrekker but we got as far as like – and I remember the moment was it was, wait; it’s got to be some kind of hoax on Twitter like we say something happens, but it didn’t. And then we remembered the whole – everybody at this moment super loves Conan O'Brien, especially on the Internet. Revision3 had just made a job offer to Conan O'Brien which may have been a little bit tongue-in-cheek, but we said we wanted to perpetrate the largest online live event Twitter hoax ever and have everybody claim that Conan O'Brien just walked out on stage and announced that he was coming to Revision3, right.

Justin Robert Young Well, yeah because, if there is anything that is going to get just absolutely [ph] bombed, (1:18:49) it’s basically when – and there’s a great video, I forget who put it up, but when we’re on stage, and we were telling people that it was from the VIP area and they kind of swoop down through the crowd, you can just see all these like – these light up – almost like stars in the sky.

Brian Brushwood Lighting up in the crowd.

Justin Robert Young These smartphones all through the darkened crowd and it was trending on Twitter within…

Brian Brushwood Within three minutes of its trending on Twitter and we had to be able to track it, so we had everyone put the hash tag OMG Conan in there. It was trending within three minutes, within 10 minutes Ryan Vance, VP of Revision3 had gotten congratulation calls from two executives…

Leo Laporte The coup of the century!

Brian Brushwood And within 15 minutes we found a tweet out there that said ‘just got off the phone with Conan: confirmed this is a hoax.’

Leo Laporte Oh wow. Poor Conan got woken up in the middle of the night?

Justin Robert Young But the funniest part about that is that our crazy Internet hoax; and we’ve repeated this and said that Conan got called and he woke up and that's crazy, yay.

Leo Laporte Doesn’t matter. It lives.

Justin Robert Young We just believe something on the Internet. So it’s like – this could in itself be a hoax and then by the end of it, it was reported on, where was it, Tubefilter…

Brian Brushwood Yeah, and CNET did an article on the hoax and whatever it was lot of fun.

Justin Robert Young But even then, it’s like the whole telephone game of it. And everyone – halfway through it Conan was buying Revision3, and then also…

Brian Brushwood And as of morning, as of this morning, we can confirm Conan is actually buying the Internets.

Justin Robert Young Yeah.

Brian Brushwood Right here.

Justin Robert Young There we go.

Tom Merritt Congratulations Conan.

Leo Laporte So it says 426 tweets, but it must have been more than that because there were about 3400 people there.

Brian Brushwood Yeah, and it was, I mean that was like – I think that’s how many happened like right as we said.

Leo Laporte Right, and then we streamed it live, and I encouraged the live stream also to participate.

Justin Robert Young And that was my favorite part about it, was that people watching and everybody in the crowd, there was nobody who wanted to spoil the…

Brian Brushwood Yeah.

Leo Laporte Right.

Brian Brushwood I went through it, I was just like ‘these jerks are telling lies’, not one person – And the article, the CNET article clearly is like ‘some people think this is not a good thing to do.’ Well up yours, it’s funny and…

Leo Laporte Now have you seen this screwyouSXSW Twitter account.

Brian Brushwood No, what are they saying?

Molly Wood Man, that is interesting. That one @replied me the other day. It purports to be a wife who is angry that her husband went to South by Southwest on what is their anniversary weekend.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Molly Wood But it’s so – and so it’s just kind of ongoing, but you know, she seems a little in the know, is all I’m saying. Like her…

Leo Laporte Oh, you think it’s not real?

Molly Wood Her critiques are very biting.

Tom Merritt Yeah.

Molly Wood So if she were really just the average kind of pissed off wife, I don’t feel like she would be so – but she’s like oh, look I just cracked open another bottle of wine and everybody cracked open their [ph] douchebag (1:21:21) tags on Foursquare, or whatever like – she seems kind of plugged in, is all I’m saying.

Justin Robert Young

Maybe this one is Jason Calacanis too, like the unnamed source.

Molly Wood He’s just [ph] mad enough. It’s mean now! (1:21:30)

Leo Laporte So has anybody found the husband, that’s what I want to know.

Molly Wood I know, I want to know who the husband is.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Brian Brushwood If I’m that husband, I’m not telling anyone!

Molly Wood I think that this person is just hoping to get on CNN.

Justin Robert Young Doesn’t it seem just kind of selectively anonymous though? Like if she really wanted to get at him then you could bring up some nasty stuff, of, you know…

Brian Brushwood I don’t know.

Molly Wood I’m not buying it. She did ask me, she asked me some question, and I was like move along sweetie.

Tom Merritt She actually, she actually…

Molly Wood She did, I don’t know, I said – I think she is just searching on the hashtags, so she asked me to, I think on my bio I said that I was a minor internet celebrity; she goes ‘what does that mean in the big scheme of things mollywood’ and I was like, ‘nothing. Nothing sweetie; move along’.

Leo Laporte This woman is clearly a social media consultant.

Molly Wood She is, she obviously is.

Leo Laporte Pretty obvious.

Molly Wood She is one of the new 9,000 gurus.

Brian Brushwood Speaking of social media, you know today is pie day, right.

Leo Laporte Happy pie day everybody!

Brian Brushwood Did you guys already talk about that?

Leo Laporte All right, let’s see I’m going to have a little competition to see who can name pie to the most places here on the panel.

Brian Brushwood I’m only –

Molly Wood I’m out.

Leo Laporte Justin says I can’t.

Tom Merritt 3.147.

Brian Brushwood 3.14159

Molly Wood [Indiscernible] (1:22:35) totally give you the [ph] no (1:22:35)

Leo Laporte 3.14159, but there’s mnemonic that I learned; how I want a drink, alcoholic of course, after the heavy chapters on (sic) [involving] quantum mechanics. That will get you out to nine places if you do the number of letters in each of those words.

Brian Brushwood Oh wow.

Justin Robert Young Yeah.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Justin Robert Young And you described everybody’s weekend!

Brian Brushwood So check this out, we’re actually doing, I am trying to break one more record with the Universal Record database, by the way I just saw the picture of the Avatar [indiscernible] (1:23:01).

Unknown Speaker [Indiscernible] (1:23:02).

Molly Wood You should really read the bio; it’s a lot of fun.

Brian Brushwood If you go the website, I got approached by a mathematician out of Cambridge University who completely fooled me with a magic trick, and it’s completely math based and we’ll teach how it’s done later, but I was completely fooled. He’s like, you can do this over Twitter. And it takes about like two minutes to watch the video.

Leo Laporte [Indiscernible] (1:23:22) video.

Brian Brushwood Well this is the long version, but you can kind of scoot it forward to where we explain how to do the trick. If you want to try it at home basically – in fact I’ll just describe what to do if you want to play along. What you do is you take – you generate a giant number somewhere between one million and one billion on your calculator by multiplying single digits one at a time, so like three times five times six times eight times ten so you get a big fat giant random number.

Leo Laporte All right look, can we all do this at home?

Brian Brushwood Yeah, sure. No go ahead and do this.

Leo Laporte We’ll get out our calculators.

Tom Merritt Will it work if I use, or do I have to do it on the calc.

Brian Brushwood No, do it on the calc. That’s – pay attention to the instructions, Merritt, come on.

Leo Laporte Yeah, don’t mess around, man.

Brian Brushwood All right once you have got a giant number.

Molly Wood I think I like to hack the hack.

Leo Laporte Single digit numbers.

Brian Brushwood Right, and you want to make it as diverse as you can, so that –

Leo Laporte And how many – how big does it have to get?

Brian Brushwood Anywhere between a million and a billion; six, seven, eight, nine digits.

Leo Laporte All right, I’m up to thirty-two thousand, a hundred and sixty seven. I got one million –

Brian Brushwood You don’t even need to tell me what it is, see, that’s the best part. That’s – okay, out of all those numbers, pick one of those to be your secret number.

Leo Laporte Okay.

Brian Brushwood Okay? Now we’re doing it in person, so just – you tell me right now, what are the other digits besides yours.

Leo Laporte The other digits?

Brian Brushwood Yeah, every other digit except for the one you just picked.

Leo Laporte All right, the other digits are 1, 1, 3, 0, 0, 0.

Brian Brushwood You are thinking of the number 4.

Leo Laporte Whoa!

Brian Brushwood So – but here’s the best part. We’ve set up a script so that now all you do, Tweet out all the digits except for your secret digit, and use the hashtag, piedaymagic and I will DM you what secret number you’re thinking of. But you have to follow @shwood in order to get the DM or @jamesgrime, the guy who came up with this to me.

But it’s awesome, like, literally, I sit there and I’m watching the script, and like I’m – this is the way I want to do magic in the future, where I just sit there, the computer does all the work, and people clap for me. It’s awesome.

Leo Laporte Autonomous magic. It’s next.

Molly Wood You wanna do bot magic?

Brian Brushwood That’s right!

Leo Laporte Wow.

Molly Wood Does somebody have We should get that.

Brian Brushwood But it’s very, very cool.

Leo Laporte Wow. Okay, do another one, guys, don’t show him the number.

Brian Brushwood Oh come on, it works, I do it, it works all the time, do it online, do it on Twitter.

Justin Robert Young In case anyone’s wondering, multiplying the Lost numbers as single digits isn’t long enough.


Leo Laporte Somebody did that?

Justin Robert Young I did.

Brian Brushwood Of course he did.

Justin Robert Young But to be fair, James Grime, the – Brian’s partner in crime on this one – did directly @reply me to let me know what my number was anyway.

Leo Laporte Now what does this have to do with pi?

Brian Brushwood Pi day is a celebration of all things mathematical, and that’s one of the things – James Grime is a mathematician at Cambridge and he actually tours – he’s got one of the original Enigma machines, the encrypting machines. And he does a stage show to promote math awareness. And so he wanted to do a special event to promote mathematics and show how you could do some kick-ass tricks with math. And the best part is, we’re going to teach exactly how to do this trick in an upcoming episode of Scam School.

Leo Laporte Ah, the plug for Scam School.


Leo Laporte It was only a matter of time.

Molly Wood Who did not see that coming?

Leo Laporte Me. All right, Brian Brushwood is the host of Scam School and you can watch it on Revision3 at, is that right?

Brian Brushwood Yes, but more importantly, we’re hosting NSFW right here on the TWiT network!

Leo Laporte Yes, indeed.

Brian Brushwood As a matter of fact, we just confirmed we’re going to have Drew from BlameDrewsCancer on coming up, Baratunde’s confirmed he’s going to come on.

Leo Laporte Yeah, that’s great. And what time – what day do you do that show? Tuesdays?

Brian Brushwood Tuesday nights at 10 p.m. Eastern and it’s –

Leo Laporte If you want to watch it live. You can, of course, get the podcast.

Brian Brushwood Yeah. And watching it live is where you get to actually be part of the mischief and actually – some of the best parts of the show are where an inappropriate link will show up in the chatroom and all of a sudden take us in a complete new direction.

Leo Laporte Involving dolphins, perhaps?

Justin Robert Young Hey listen, every once in a while, it’s like when they make food at a factory, you know. You can’t avoid getting the random dolphin.

Justin Robert Young You can’t avoid opening up ChatRoulette and seeing something that can’t be unseen.


Leo Laporte I’ve done that as well. I’ve done that as well.

Justin Robert Young The funniest thing is when that happened, there was some solace; at least it happened to Leo three days ago.

Leo Laporte That’s true. Actually, maybe we can get one of those little badges for a world record for most penises on the TWiT network in one week.


Justin Robert Young To be fair, I won’t split hairs here because there was not an actual penis on our show, because it was covered by a dolphin.

Leo Laporte Really? I heard there was. Somebody used the phrase ‘Abraham Lincoln.’

Brian Brushwood I don’t even know what that means. That sounds like some maneuver that’s way complicated.

Leo Laporte Justin and shwood are on NSFW, make sure you watch that show Tuesdays.

Tom Merritt I can vouch that it is the most fun you can have after 5 p.m. with an Ethernet cable.

Justin Robert Young Oh, dude.

Brian Brushwood That’s from Tom Merritt, our most often – most common guest.

Tom Merritt Pronounce it correctly, Brian.

Brian Brushwood The winner of our non-Olympic-affiliated Winner Games. Winner games.

Leo Laporte Winner. You couldn’t afford the T.

Brian Brushwood Yeah. We couldn’t afford the lawsuit if we said ‘The Olympics.’

Leo Laporte And I would have been the one sued, so I thank you for that. Mark Milian is a writer at the LA Times. It’s great to see you, Mark.

Mark Milian Great to see you.

Leo Laporte This is your first South by Southwest because you’re only 12. I had in the obligatory youthful joke.

Mark Milian Very true.

Leo Laporte At Mark’s expense.

Mark Milian It’s my first, I’m loving it.

Leo Laporte That’s exciting. It’s fun, isn’t it? Mine too. I’m really having a blast. It’s really a lot of fun. Thank you for being here. We appreciate it.

Mark Milian Thank you.

Leo Laporte Anything you want to plug?

Mark Milian and

Leo Laporte Heyniceblog.

Brian Brushwood That is the best name ever.

Mark Milian And you’re producer as; that’s an awesome domain.

Leo Laporte I know. Isn’t that strange?

Unknown Speaker (1:28:43) It’s being redesigned right now; it’ll be up and running Squarespace shortly.

Leo Laporte He’s got one of the few three-letter domain names; pretty exciting.

Molly Wood is a host of, of course, Buzz Out Loud; welcome back to Buzz Out Loud. It’s great to have you back on the show.

Molly Wood Thank you, it’s nice.

Leo Laporte You just really – it’s such a great show with you and Tom of course and Jason. And her Molly Rants column is at Tom Merritt is the Maitre d’ at Buzz Out Loud. He wears a tuxedo every day.

Tom Merritt Can I get you a tech story?

Leo Laporte Yes. Thank you. and also. Yeah. And anything else I need to say? Thanks, oh yes, of course to the folks at the Texas Coworking Center who provided us the space to do this show. To all the people who came out. Paul, we really appreciate it. This has been a fun place to do the show. Thanks to the folks at NewTek, [ph] Shane Connor (1:29:33) and gang who did a great job of switching this and everybody’s saying it’s the best looking TWiT we’ve ever done, because it’s the first high-def TWiT we’ve ever done. So maybe nice if we could do more of these, and one of these days we’ll upgrade maybe to the TriCaster HD, that’s an amazing device they’re using there to switch.

And you know what’s great, it’s inexpensive – inexpensive cameras they’re using, just the camcorders are just standard consumer DV cameras and yet we get better grade quality video than we get at home with very expensive cameras.

Also to Michael Sean Wright; Michael we really appreciate everything you do, of and he helped to set this all up in fact he’s been using this space; we’re using his space really. So we thank you, Michael.

Thanks everybody who came out. Sorry you had to stand the whole time but we appreciate you being here. Another TWiT is in the can.

[Outro music and applause]

Brian Brushwood Ah; URDB just called. We just got the most awkwardly long clap award.

Molly Wood Yay!

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