TWiT 243/Transcript

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Episode 243


This transcript is provided by our friends at Pods in Print

Leo Laporte Audio bandwidth for This WEEK in TECH is provided by AOL Music and, where you can get free MP3s, exclusive interviews and more. Video bandwidth for TWiT is provided by Cachefly at

This is TWiT: this WEEK in TECH, episode 243 for April 12, 2010: Eat A Hot Bowl Of Nintendo Wiis.

This WEEK in TECH is brought to you by; to download two free audio books of your choice, go to, and don’t forget to follow Audible on Twitter, at Audible_com; and by GoToMyPC, think remote access to your PC is complicated, think again it’s easy with GoToMyPC. For your free 30-day trial, visit; and by Carbonite, the leader in online backup. Backup your PC or Mac, offsite, securely and automatically. For a free trial offer plus two free months with purchase go to, offer code TWiT.

It’s time for TWiT: this WEEK in TECH, the show that covers all the tech news. Joining us in studio today, I’m really happy to have Mr. Brian Brushwood from Scam School.

Brian Brushwood Howdy!

Leo Laporte And NSFW. Do you see who’s sitting over your left shoulder there…

Brian Brushwood That’s Danger Dane Golden if I’m not mistaken.

Leo Laporte Danger Dane Golden, just be careful because he could lose it at any moment.

Brian Brushwood He seems like a nice guy, but we got the Secret Dan Golden tapes. He would cut you.

Leo Laporte Yeah. We had to believe that sucker. Oh my god. He swears it’s like a sailor. It’s found on that film.

Brian Brushwood We actually – I remember the first day in the first episode, with the Name That Autocomplete that we did.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Brian Brushwood Some folks actually put together an entire website where you could play the game yourself at…

Leo Laporte Oh! Cool.

Brian Brushwood …At

Leo Laporte Oh! What fun.

Brian Brushwood Yeah, a couple of guys. I told them I gave their names because I couldn’t believe that they busted it out like three days, it was James Thompson of the CSS and Jim Jatho put it together. But it’s – we got badges that we made for everything different achievements and so the overall winner with the best record gets the King Leo badge on Nintendo Wii.

Leo Laporte That’s better than We Rule. That’s awesome. Name That Autocomplete. Wow, this is fantastic.

Brian Brushwood Yeah, basically it’s the same rules. Because you know the autocomplete is on Google. When you start to type in a person’s name, it does the most commonly search terms with them.

Leo Laporte Right.

Brian Brushwood And the idea is, it’s kind of Google proof, because it gives you the related search terms, you’ve got to figure out who the person is.

Leo Laporte You sound a little hoarse, you okay or just too much talking.

Brian Brushwood Two days of Scam School…

Leo Laporte Scam School.

Brian Brushwood We’re always at the bars and you got to shout to be heard.

Leo Laporte And it’s smoky.

Brian Brushwood Then last night it was Prager’s party, we actually shot at David Prager’s place.

Leo Laporte Oh! had fun.

Brian Brushwood We got a little bit loud a long time.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Also with us, it’s great to see you once again Baratunde Thurston. How are you?

Baratunde Thurston I am wonderful, sirs. Good to be back.

Leo Laporte In studio.

Baratunde Thurston Yes, up in Petaluma.

Leo Laporte The last time I saw both of you guys was Austin, Texas.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah, that was a great time. This is basically a little Austin, right now.

Leo Laporte Mini South by Southwest right now.

Baratunde Thurston All the important parts.

Leo Laporte Yeah. All the good parts. Yes, I’ll tell you who else is here that really makes it good, it’s Veronica Belmont of Tekzilla fame.

Veronica Belmont Hello.

Leo Laporte Looking like a movie star in her backlit suite.

Veronica Belmont I know it’s getting a little bit brighter out there, I apologize for that. I cannot control the weather.

Baratunde Thurston It’s going from movie star to like the Matrix. Now she looks like she is in the – she is in that bright room in the Matrix.

Leo Laporte Yeah, it is that white room behind her. It’s great to see you. You went to South by right?

Veronica Belmont Yeah, I was only there for two days, we did the gadget party.

Leo Laporte That’s right.

Veronica Belmont And did Buzz Out Loud and just hung out for a night or two and then came back.

Leo Laporte It’s fun. I really enjoyed – I’m going back next year, I really had a great time.

Veronica Belmont I’m glad you got to go.

Leo Laporte Finally.

Veronica Belmont It was good to see the video of you crowds. Loved it.

Leo Laporte It was a treat. We should do North by Northwest maybe.

Brian Brushwood There we go.

Leo Laporte Maybe chillier.

Baratunde Thurston North by northeast, just bring it to Brooklyn.

Leo Laporte All right. Brooklyn in the house. So there is so much to talk about and you know last week we just – bit of pretty much did the iPad. But I guess we should do a quick run because we haven’t talked to you guys. Baratunde, you have an iPad for the first time.

Baratunde Thurston I have the Onion’s company iPad. I had to retrieve it from my boss to make sure he hands it over.

Leo Laporte Forgot to mention you are the political editor.

Baratunde Thurston Political editor Onion.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Baratunde Thurston Online strategy digital thing person.

Leo Laporte Yeah, as well as standup comic.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah.

Leo Laporte Just an all-round great guy and the host of Popular Science’s…

Baratunde Thurston Future Of.

Leo Laporte …Future Of.

Baratunde Thurston At Future Of.

Leo Laporte Well, it feels like there’s something missing when I say Future Of.

Baratunde Thurston That’s – it’s a dot, dot, dot

Leo Laporte Dot, dot, dot

Baratunde Thurston Actually, like in search of.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Leo Laporte Future Of.

Veronica Belmont Dot, dot, dot. Yeah, that’s implied.

Leo Laporte The dot, dot, dot is implied. So what do you think?

Baratunde Thurston I think this is a beautiful device to both look at and touch. I actually, I hung out last Saturday with a bunch of people who bought iPads, and I pretended to buy one.

Leo Laporte Hey! You waited in the line but you didn’t get one.

Baratunde Thurston I waited in the line and I just held up my backpack when I left and I…

Leo Laporte And they cheered?

Baratunde Thurston [Indiscernible] (05:12) ‘we did it, we did it.’

Leo Laporte Oh! Yeah.

Baratunde Thurston And they patted me on the back and I exited the store and there was a big rush of enthusiasm.

Leo Laporte This is a special place in hell for people who pretend to buy an iPad.

Baratunde Thurston There’s a special place in hell for cheering to purchase an object.

Leo Laporte Oh! Actually, you know, you are right.

Baratunde Thurston This – it was like…

Leo Laporte To be honest. You are right.

Baratunde Thurston Buy it. That said….

Brian Brushwood So what did you do once you got in side, you just like – they are like – well, can you get you like – nothing, nothing.

Baratunde Thurston I was like, I’m good.

Leo Laporte Really? I am good. I don’t need anything, thanks.

Brian Brushwood Have you got an Apple TV around here, I was looking for an Apple TV.

Baratunde Thurston Actually the guy – I was with the co-founder of [indiscernible] (5:46) a really cool dude named [indiscernible] (5:47) and he came and he is like – do you guys saw Office?


Leo Laporte No, sorry. You must leave.

Baratunde Thurston No, but on the merits of the device itself, I’d say it was a very fun observation to see everybody do the unboxing which was Starbucks, but there was Wi-Fi. And half of them realized they couldn’t use it, because they didn’t have their laptops with them.

Leo Laporte Incredibly bizarre, that you have to plug it into iTunes.

Baratunde Thurston Device tethered to a specific cloud which is Apple tethered to a computer. So it’s not an independent……

Leo Laporte Well.

Veronica Belmont How is that bizarre? I mean, you had to do the same thing with the iPhone when you first turned it on.

Leo Laporte Because you had to pay for – you had to subscribe to AT&T service.

Baratunde Thurston Right.

Leo Laporte I could kind of understand that. Once you do that, weird sync thing you no longer need to touch it again.

Baratunde Thurston That’s right. It really muted their enthusiasm.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I think so.

Baratunde Thurston In the first 30 minutes.

Leo Laporte And rightly so.

Baratunde Thurston They ripped it open, they’re sweating, and tears are coming down their face, and they’re trying to feel the face of god.

Brian Brushwood Were they actual tears?

Baratunde Thurston And no…

Leo Laporte The face of the god and his eyes are closed.

Baratunde Thurston And they had to go home…

Brian Brushwood And god was napping. Like in the sleep mode.

Leo Laporte I will not look at you.

Baratunde Thurston And then the other shock was after we left the Starbucks, went out to brunch and people took them out and there was no Wi-Fi and suddenly this device became a beautiful brick.

Leo Laporte It really isn’t much fun without Wi-Fi.

Baratunde Thurston It was useless and…

Veronica Belmont I saw a lot of people with them at WonderCon actually, because it was right down the street from the Moscone Center where people were picking it up at the Apple Store and then they were just carrying it around WonderCon and getting pictures of like people in Cosplay outfit, so it was really funny.

Leo Laporte The [indiscernible] (7:12) yeah. You have one too Veronica, well Ryan – you and Ryan sharing one right, the gdgt – the one …….

Veronica Belmont Well, you know that’s – the problem I have with that is that you can’t really share it. He has one that he is using for review purposes and I have not purchased one and I just wish they had multiple user profiles, because that way I could have all my applications and you mentioned We Rule, I can’t log out of that and log back in…

Leo Laporte Right. It’s your We Rule.

Veronica Belmont ...and switch accounts.

Leo Laporte That’s right.

Veronica Belmont Yeah. And you can’t have multiple...

Leo Laporte I think that’s one of...

Veronica Belmont Application, so...

Leo Laporte That to me is one of the things that I actually like about the iPad is it’s an intimate device. It’s the most personal…

Veronica Belmont Yeah, but not everyone in the family can afford it an intimate luxury device.

Leo Laporte Yeah – no, I know, it’s an intimate luxury. You’re right.

Baratunde Thurston That’s one of the fun parts, when you look at the state of the economy and Apple chooses now to push – to really like manufacture demand.

Leo Laporte Right.

Baratunde Thurston In some ways it’s inspiring in other ways it’s sort of odd.

Brian Brushwood Well, you were meaning, disgusting.

Baratunde Thurston No, but look.

Leo Laporte If you want, you can buy a $250 netbook, it does more. If you really want that and has log-ins, has profiles, has multi-tasking, has cameras, has Flash, it’s not as good, in my opinion, but you can and that satisfies people, all the people complain about it well, nobody is making you buy an iPad.

Baratunde Thurston No, that’s true no one is making you. I just – I’m – I’ve always – I mean, I come on the show and said this before I have this very split Apple opinion, I love the product, but – and I have some concern...

Leo Laporte We’re all in that world now.

Baratunde Thurston Well, here is the process, I was looking for news apps because we’re trying to think about what an Onion iPad that might be. And it was sort of messing around with ideas. So I want to see the top rated news apps.

Leo Laporte Right.

Baratunde Thurston So I go to the app store. I see sort by and my choices are recent, featured or…

Leo Laporte Top grossing – talk about gross…

Baratunde Thurston You cannot sort – you can’t sort it by customer rating. I can’t find the app that most people have rated highly.

Leo Laporte Wow.

Baratunde Thurston They have the data.

Leo Laporte That’s a flaw.

Baratunde Thurston They don’t expose that.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Baratunde Thurston Now, that’s the tiny, tiny thing but you’ve enabled a three-finger touch, which you don’t let me sort by product rating.

Leo Laporte That is a little odd.

Baratunde Thurston Actually it’s weird. And I don’t think it is just an oversight.

Leo Laporte You don’t think it’s an oversight?

Baratunde Thurston That’s a really obvious, every online store in the world, let’s you sort by user ratings to see what the community likes the best. Apples wants to know because they want you to go to ones they feature.

Leo Laporte They want to control it.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah. They determine what’s best.

Leo Laporte You know…

Baratunde Thurston [Indiscernible] (9:40)

Leo Laporte They keep take out – they finally – an iPhone 4.0, one of the complaints about iPhone apps, when you remove an iPhone app, it asks you to rate it. And developers hate this, because what you get most of the ratings are from people who are uninstalling your app.

Veronica Belmont I always wondered about it.

Leo Laporte They are all negative, right? So finally they listened to developers and changed that. I think that they would listen to people and change? I don’t know if that – I don’t know understand – I don’t think that there is – there is a marginal value to Apple to have the featured thing be over the rating thing. I think that’s fair…

Baratunde Thurston I think – just I mean, how long has an item store been out there? This is years now.

Leo Laporte Do you think they’d have fixed that?

Baratunde Thurston Yes. So, I don’t know.

Leo Laporte Amazon does it; everybody else does, sort by rating…

Baratunde Thurston eBay, Amazon...

Leo Laporte That’s how – in fact that’s the default.

Baratunde Thurston Yes.

Leo Laporte That’s odd, I never noticed that.

Baratunde Thurston There’s a crowd that tap into it.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Baratunde Thurston Anyway, I think it’s – some of the news apps are really interesting.

Leo Laporte You know, maybe – almost.

Baratunde Thurston Some of them are too interesting to be useful.

Leo Laporte It might be – yes, like…

Baratunde Thurston So, I like Time is very confusing model.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Baratunde Thurston I think what’s Apple’s…

Leo Laporte Because they sold one issue for 4.99.

Baratunde Thurston They’ve removed all the barriers, and in some cases you need barriers. So everybody’s navigation is different, there is no standard to the menu, some people slide sideways to advance in an article some slide vertically, some like twist a combination lock.

Leo Laporte Did you see the Popular Science magazine, it’s beautiful, right?

Baratunde Thurston I did, but I couldn’t read it.

Leo Laporte You can’t read it, nobody has ever read an article, they’ve just – they go, oh, this is beautiful.

Baratunde Thurston Yes.

Leo Laporte But it is – you cannot figure how to use it.

Baratunde Thurston Yes, so sometimes boundaries can be good.

Leo Laporte Usability – certainly an issue. What you think Veronica, what’s your experience been?

Veronica Belmont Well, I haven’t actually used it too much like I said – it’s kind of – been kind of difficult for me to get my hands on it, because Ryan’s been hogging it the whole time, no fault of his own.

Leo Laporte You said you had some negatives, I guess the log in’s one.

Veronica Belmont Yes, the log in’s one; it does feel a little bit heavy for me; I talked about this one Tekzilla a little bit. But to use it as an e-book reader like on public transportation, when I use my Kindle, I can hold it one handed for a pretty significant amount of time. The iPad on the other hand feels a lot more, you know…

Leo Laporte I hear people say that.

Veronica Belmont It’s heavily constructed in a good way.

Leo Laporte I hear people say that but you know how heavy is a hard…

Veronica Belmont It’s heavy.

Leo Laporte How heavy is a hardbound book? If I read Cryptonomicon on the subway, it’s more than a pound and a half…

Baratunde Thurston You need a holster for that book.

Leo Laporte Yes. So I’m just saying...

Veronica Belmont The muscles are way too...

Leo Laporte Nobody ever complains, oh, this book is too heavy to read on the subway, and yet – I guess the Kindle is set up in expectation that things will be light enough to hold.

Baratunde Thurston Brian Brushwood is delighted to do something.

Brian Brushwood I just – I just lost my iPad...

Leo Laporte Wait a minute, you never even touched one?

Brian Brushwood I never touched an iPad until this exact moment.

Baratunde Thurston You have dramatic music to accompany this dramatic moment.

Leo Laporte I have sad trombone, is that dramatic enough?

Brian Brushwood That is good.

Baratunde Thurston It might be kind of a sad moment for humanity.

Leo Laporte This is Brian Brushwood’s sad trombone. That’s not quite it.

[Sound effect]


Brian Brushwood Actually that is kind of how I feel though because it’s like I wanted so bad for the iPad to be a “slam-dunk, have-to-buy” the way the iPhone was, but instead it was just that middle ground and not having a camera and the 3G not being available and it being because if I’m going to get it I am going to get the high end one for $800, it’s like I am stuck in this; I got a wait for it mode, and I don’t want to be there. I want to be like – it’s good I am buying it right now. But I am sure now that I have touched one it’s all going to be over.

Leo Laporte It’s actually…

Veronica Belmont It feels really nice to use like I do like the intimacy of having it there on your lap and being able to jump around and use the multi-touch. It’s nice, I do enjoy it. I am just not at the point now where I am ready to buy one yet. Not quite there.

Brian Brushwood Yes, I guess that’s the other thing. It’s like – and for me getting just there. Getting one without 3G wouldn’t be an option. So it’s like there is no way I am getting one without 3G but if I buy the one with 3G not only am I going to be spending almost $800 but I am also signing up for $30 a month; that's a big enough hurdle where it’s like I am frustrated standing on the outside; I want to be in the party with you guys.

Leo Laporte Here is an interesting thing on that 30 a month. It’s not the unlimited five gigabytes that they are selling with the rest of the EVDO cards it’s really – AT&T says, no, no, we won’t. There is no limit on it.

Brian Brushwood Oh really.

Leo Laporte Yes, I don’t know. Then they said – the guy literally said, well I could see why because you can’t use it with anything else.

Brian Brushwood Yes.

Leo Laporte It’s like that's it. It’s for the iPad.

Leo Laporte We can use that as a hub, right.

Veronica Belmont Oh, Mr. [Indiscernible] (13:40) wants to say thank you for featuring him on TWiT last week as the iPad stand, kitty iPad stand.

Leo Laporte Oh, I forgot about that, yes, you had the iPad on your cat’s butt.

Veronica Belmont Yes, he had his 15 minutes of fame, he was very excited.

Leo Laporte It was a – it’s sad it doesn’t – it doesn’t heat up. So it’s really not even good for a butt warmer.

Veronica Belmont It’s good for a little back massage, I guess, if you are using, if you are typing on it with the cat.

Leo Laporte That's true. It rocks back and forth in the cat’s back.

Brian Brushwood I mean one of the fun things to think about, if you look back at the iPod when it came out it wasn’t that interesting. There was no iTunes Store. You’d to manually rip all your music and people pooh-poohed it as an unnecessary third luxury type device, so what Apple does that’s on the good side is they create markets.

Leo Laporte Feel how heavy this first iPod is, that's the give gig – it’s five gigabytes, feel how heavy that is.

Baratunde Thurston Ladies and gentlemen.

Leo Laporte And I am sure people said the same thing, too expensive because it was 499, it’s too heavy; five gigs, of course at that time that was a lot of storage.

Baratunde Thurston What they’ll do is over time they will release features that we think are obvious and we will be grateful for them and we will pay and they will eke every incremental dollar out of an extended roadmap knowing today what the device should have.

Leo Laporte You know what’s really interesting is on this day where Apple sold – they sold 450,000 devices in the first three days, I mean there really is a lot of celebration. Mostly what you hear is negativity about Apple. It seems to me except for the hardcore Apple family, it seems to me Apple’s reputation has slipped quite a bit.

Brian Brushwood I think it’s the uncanny valley. The closer they get to being perfect the more we notice their flaws.

Leo Laporte Oh the uncanny valley.

Brian Brushwood Yes.

Veronica Belmont That's an interesting way of using that, hey.

Baratunde Thurston It was very interesting.

Leo Laporte Tell us what the uncanny valley is, Veronica. What does that mean?

Veronica Belmont Uncanny valley is an idea that as robots or androids become more and more human-like it becomes increasingly difficult for us to accept them because they are just – they are very, very close to appearing human but because they are not human we can sense that and you actually kind of equate it to being like a corpse, like or a zombie, like some kind of…

Leo Laporte Something wrong but you can’t figure out what.

Veronica Belmont Human but not quite human, yes.

Leo Laporte It’s Toy Story. It’s – Toy Story’s fine when it’s toys but as soon it’s a human there’s something wrong.

Baratunde Thurston It’s creepy.

Brian Brushwood Right.

Veronica Belmont The Polar Express is a really good example of that but used in cinema, it’s like the animation was just close enough but it was a little bit on the creepy side.

Leo Laporte Right. Right.

Brian Brushwood By the way I can literally feel the sickness soaking in through my fingers the more I touch it.

Baratunde Thurston It’s a tactile sort of…

Brian Brushwood And I knew because you notice like on launch day everyone, when they announced it, everyone who touched it says I am getting one, everyone who didn’t touch it says I don’t get it, what’s the big deal…

Leo Laporte It’s the touching.

Brian Brushwood And I knew this will be the moment when you touch…

Baratunde Thurston It‘s a special film that they apply, it’s conductive, it’s glass…

Leo Laporte The reality distortion film.

Baratunde Thurston Carbon fiber transmission.

Leo Laporte No, I think it’s the intimacy of it, and I think this is why you know people keep saying, Leo, you are an Apple fan boy. Of course you love it and why you are saying it’s a game changer. To me it’s a game changer because it’s so intimate. You are touching it, you are holding it and what you don’t get from the pictures is how snappy it is and the experience – it is – it’s an experiential thing. That’s maybe hard to codify, I don’t know but I do feel it’s intimate.

Baratunde Thurston When you think about this as a collapsing of 50 to 100 game boards like scrabble, like checkers, backgammon, chess…

Leo Laporte Just think of it that way.

Baratunde Thurston All that…

Veronica Belmont Oh, yes.

Baratunde Thurston In one place where you think of a group of people interacting with this together…

Leo Laporte Right.

Baratunde Thurston The way – what the Wii did for gaming, the iPad has the potential to do for all sorts of other types of interaction.

Veronica Belmont Yes.

Brian Brushwood That is a – that is a very good and also a very dangerous analogy because what the Wi did was come on very strong bringing in a novel play dynamic that involved touching and feeling and motion control…

Baratunde Thurston Right.

Brian Brushwood And it ultimately fizzled because it brought nothing new technology-wise as far as the capability of it and the novelty of the game wore off very quickly. Most – I can’t remember the last time I touched the Nintendo Wii.

Leo Laporte You are so slow, it was so close.

Baratunde Thurston I was waiting like come on do it.

Veronica Belmont It’s absolutely true; I haven’t played with that Nintendo console.

Leo Laporte I play with my Wii all the time.

Veronica Belmont Unfair. Excellent. No, but I am really excited about the game center for the iPad like I am looking forward to trying more games on it and really seeing what developers can do with the interface and having a Steam-like or Xbox LIVE-like PSN like system for the iPad in 4.0, it’s going to be really cool.

Leo Laporte Let’s talk about 4.0 because that was the big story from Apple anyway. Apple seems – Apple’s – this is – watch very carefully because what you are seeing is a very masterful manipulation of the new cycle, they have the iPad, then this week the iPhone 4.0, next week the new Apple laptops will come out.

Brian Brushwood No kidding.

Baratunde Thurston They still make laptops?

Leo Laporte For very – a little bit longer…

Brian Brushwood Those are like – they are like kickstands for your iPad.

Leo Laporte I realize though – actually was a little worried that Apple was like turning its back on computers and going consumer and then I realize, oh no…

Veronica Belmont Did I just hear an announcement coming for next week?

Leo Laporte It’s a rumor but it’s a very, very strong – I will tell you where that comes from but what…

Veronica Belmont I need a new MacBook Pro like, whoa, right now.

Leo Laporte So do I, I am waiting. Although I have to say the iPad I have not touched my MacBook. The iPad may subsume, but here’s why Apple has to continue – keep making them.

Baratunde Thurston Yes.

Leo Laporte You cannot develop for the iPad on anything but a Macintosh.

Baratunde Thurston Yes.

Leo Laporte So if they want – in fact…

Brian Brushwood So it’s only for the developers. Those are the only people who are going to buy new Macs.

Leo Laporte Developers, video editors…

Baratunde Thurston They are an investment.

Leo Laporte That’s who is going to be buying Macs.

Brian Brushwood Am I the only one who genuinely expected that speech to text would be built into the keyboard in iPhone 4?

Baratunde Thurston Yes, you are.

Brian Brushwood Man.

Leo Laporte Well, it’s something that…

Brian Brushwood Once I saw it on Droid.

Leo Laporte Android 2 – it’s what makes Android 2.1 so exciting is that it’s everywhere. When you pop up a keyboard, you have the option to dictate. Now you could put drag and dictate on your iPad. It’s very good. It’s as good as if not better.

Brian Brushwood But it’s an extra step every time you do so. I will tell you like, once I saw that on the Droid, I was like this will be awesome. There is no way Apple will not think to put this in 4.0, darn it.

Baratunde Thurston But we said that about cut and paste.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Brian Brushwood But it wasn’t invested a thousand years ago.

Leo Laporte Multi-task.

Baratunde Thurston They are going to wait till they get it perfect by their standards, so kind of put something like that in.

Leo Laporte So Steve Jobs talked about his tent-pole at the announcement, seven of them. You started with the Wii thing and now I can’t stop.

Baratunde Thurston Let’s just keep going.

Leo Laporte So he said there are seven tent-poles, there is out like a bunch of new features but here are the ones that we want him to pay attention to.

Brian Brushwood And yay! Let Steve Jobs descend from the throne to deliver the tent-poles to the masses. Tent-pole the first, thou shalt multi-task.

Leo Laporte Multi-tasking

Baratunde Thurston But only in the manners that’s so provided by Apple as he…

Leo Laporte He says we wanted to do this for so long but we didn’t – we couldn’t – we wanted – we had waited till we did it right.

Brian Brushwood But isn’t that kind of a little bit of the opposite of what he said originally like two years ago, was just like multi-tasking’s dumb, right. There was, a yeah.

Leo Laporte Yes, never listen to what Steve Jobs says. Nobody will ever want to watch…

Brian Brushwood Watch videos or...

Leo Laporte Never…

Veronica Belmont He’ll change his mind when the time is right.

Leo Laporte In fact it’s my opinion when Steve says no one will ever that's when you start…

Brian Brushwood That's when you buy Apple stock.

Leo Laporte Yes, exactly.

Baratunde Thurston I met a guy this week at a bar on Whisky Friday which is a great tradition. Let’s go sweep the the nation…

Leo Laporte Which I have loved…

Baratunde Thurston Good.

Leo Laporte And thanks to McAllen for making that possible. It’s South by Southwest.

Baratunde Thurston Absolutely and it happens in your heart wherever you are.

Leo Laporte I love that.

Baratunde Thurston So I met a guy. He said he worked for Apple marketing. I said, oh, so you are a tech journalist.

Leo Laporte Yeow. That's got to hurt.

Baratunde Thurston No, he smiled.

Leo Laporte You could do it the other way too, the awe smirk – next time you see me, well Mossberg will say, oh you are working for Apple marketing.

Baratunde Thurston I don’t know, I have never met...

Leo Laporte Yes, no, he is a wonderful fellow. Multi-tasking was tent-pole number one, any thoughts about how they implemented it? Okay.

Brian Brushwood I actually was literally…

Veronica Belmont For what, for multi-tasking?

Leo Laporte Yes.

Veronica Belmont Well, it’s still like jumping around to applications. The only thing that's improved really is how to remember the state it was in.

Leo Laporte It’s funny because I feel like the iPad which lacks it right now although we’ll have it this fall is all I really want which is quickly go home and go to the next app and it’s fast enough that I feel like it’s close to multi-tasking. The only thing you lack is you can’t and this is what they…

Brian Brushwood Pandora.

Leo Laporte Exactly. This is what they used as an example.

Brian Brushwood Pandora effect, or as I like to think about the TWiT effect;

Leo Laporte Yes, well and we figured out a way, by the way you can continue to listen to in the background because it uses Apple’s own QuickTime player which is allowed to multi-task.

Baratunde Thurston I thought I was so – I thought I had stumbled upon something.

Leo Laporte You did.

Baratunde Thurston Because I was listening to TWiT audio and I was like I broke it.

Leo Laporte No, no.

Baratunde Thurston I accidentally broke my…

Leo Laporte Credit to Houdini 7 for realizing that that would work if you use quick time you’ll be able to do it in the background.

Brian Brushwood So the multi-tasking is probably like the most important feature of the 4.0 software.

Leo Laporte I have to cope to something.

Brian Brushwood What is it?

Leo Laporte I said last week you will never see multi-tasking in an Apple device.

Baratunde Thurston You sound like Steve Jobs.

Leo Laporte And the reason I said it is I don’t want multi-tasking. If I have to have a way to switch it off because I will tell you what I have got multi-tasking in this Nexus One…

Baratunde Thurston Yes.

Leo Laporte At least twice now a phone call has come in and I haven’t been able to pick it up because something else is busy.

Baratunde Thurston Right.

Brian Brushwood Didn’t you hear Jobs said this time they did it right? That’s because they are doing it wrong.

Leo Laporte Oh okay. Then I feel fine.

Brian Brushwood I have a hypothetical question for you, theoretically.

Leo Laporte Yes, sir.

Brian Brushwood Let’s say somebody, obviously there is a lot of great features in 4.0, hypothetically if somebody had hacked their 3.0 software and never upgraded to 3.1 because they really needed the tethering that AT&T was supposed to offer months and months ago.

Leo Laporte Purely hypothetical.

Brian Brushwood Hypothetically is there much of a reason this person maybe should or should not go to 4.0?

Leo Laporte I do restore. I always do a restore when I have a jailbroken phone just to see what’s new and…

Brian Brushwood Not jailbroken because that was what 3, I mean hypothetically…

Leo Laporte Oh you had unlocked.

Brian Brushwood Yes, like...

Leo Laporte Unlocked.

Brian Brushwood Like 3.0 you could do a, I forget what it was but some file altered and then you had tethering available.

Leo Laporte Oh tethering.

Brian Brushwood Tethering

Leo Laporte That’s jailbreak. Oh that file.

Brian Brushwood Yes.

Leo Laporte Oh you didn’t jailbreak it. You just changed the – you added [indiscernible] (23:25). You could – without a profile that won’t allow you to do tethering.

Brian Brushwood Right, correct.

Leo Laporte By the way, AT&T said tethering would happen last year.

Brian Brushwood Are you accusing AT&T of not…?

Baratunde Thurston I am so shocked that you are all referring to the historical record. Why would you bring up old stuff? That's so old, let’s look to the future guys.

Veronica Belmont Your truth is now, according to Steve. Don’t look back on the old stuff, exactly.

Baratunde Thurston My take on the multi-tasking, I mean it’s – some people think it’s technically not real multi-tasking based on the video of demonstration, the Pandora thing is super…

Leo Laporte That's important.

Baratunde Thurston But more important to me was the Skype demonstration.

Leo Laporte Skype could ring in the background.

Baratunde Thurston So it would be a phone; not just an app that you had to have in the foreground when you wanted to use it, so when you are able to be reached without an active decision to do so, that's a true communications device. So that…

Brian Brushwood Was that a bit of a warning shot to AT&T you think? That seemed a little bit weird for a device as primarily a phone for you to focus in your…

Veronica Belmont Okay, look, Skype can go through now and multi-task so you can use it as your phone instead of AT&T service.

Leo Laporte Kind of shocking is Steve would – yes, that Steve would say the S-word is a little shocking.

Unknown Speaker Yes. Symbian you mean?

Leo Laporte Yes.

Veronica Belmont Skype looks great on the iPhone as it is. So I am really looking forward to having it as a multi-tasker.

Leo Laporte By the way it works on the iPad too.

Veronica Belmont And get calls in when I am walking around. What?

Leo Laporte It works on the iPad too.

Baratunde Thurston Works on this?

Leo Laporte No, you got a microphone on that thing.

Baratunde Thurston Nice. Okay.

Veronica Belmont Can’t do video chat though but I guess you can’t on the iPhone either.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Baratunde Thurston Is it – I heard but I haven’t found; I heard there was an app that uses your iPod touch or iPhone as the camera for your iPad. Can you verify this?

Brian Brushwood You told me like it was fact.

Leo Laporte There is two, no, no, no. There are…

Brian Brushwood I was all excited.

Baratunde Thurston But now we are broadcasting and I have to be responsible to those journalist.

Brian Brushwood You are correct [indiscernible] (25:04).

Leo Laporte There are two – there are in fact two apps in the iTunes Store. But come on, wait a minute, now think about this. Okay, now you have an iPhone and an iPad…

Baratunde Thurston Right.

Brian Brushwood So you can do the Statue of Liberty thing.

Leo Laporte You’re taking a picture with your iPhone that is feeding into your iPad via Bluetooth.

Baratunde Thurston Right.

Leo Laporte Why don’t you just take the picture with the iPhone?

Veronica Belmont Yeah, this is getting too much. It’s too much.

Baratunde Thurston It’s not – what I would think is this iPad screen is much better for manipulation…

Leo Laporte Right.

Baratunde Thurston …for viewing, for editing, and for formatting.

Leo Laporte There are a quite a few applications to do that.

Baratunde Thurston So I would like to take a batch of photos with the handheld device.

Leo Laporte Right.

Baratunde Thurston But then instantly move them to the tablet device.

Leo Laporte It’s more than instantly. It’s at the same time. It’s live.

Baratunde Thurston It’s live? Oh, it’s like those Wi-Fi SD card.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah.

Leo Laporte Now they sell a camera card reader for the iPad so you could –

Baratunde Thurston Oh, the dongle?

Leo Laporte Yeah, you could use –

Baratunde Thurston I’m not going to donglize this.

Leo Laporte You don’t want a dongle.

Baratunde Thurston It de-beautifies it.

Leo Laporte No, no, no, you just take a picture, take a bunch of pictures on your SD card, pop the SD card and it can copy it to the –

Baratunde Thurston I don’t use SD cards.

Leo Laporte I know. I’ll be honest. I really don’t see the iPad as a content creation device so much. I think there is limited content creation.

Baratunde Thurston Right.

Leo Laporte To me, it’s a TV 2.0.

Brian Brushwood I can see that or TV accompaniments. It’s something you throw on your lap while you are watching Lost to wake up, let’s say.

Leo Laporte Well, but I can watch Netflix on it. I can watch – ABC has a great application, lets you watch TV live on it – not live but streaming. I can watch movies and television shows downloaded from iTunes. And there is a great IMDB application by the way that I can run –

Brian Brushwood Does the Netflix look good streaming on it?

Leo Laporte Netflix is awesome. So it’s a personal TV. Now you may say, well, wait a minute, I have a 50-inch TV I just bought. But if you hold your iPad –

Brian Brushwood That’s what I do. I can watch this with my 50-inch TV –

Leo Laporte It’s pretty close to your 50-inch TV. I’ll be honest with you.

Baratunde Thurston You’re going to have that head mounted [indiscernible] (26:47).

Veronica Belmont I think [ph] it is so (26:48) pretty dismal for me though. That’s one thing that I don’t like when sitting and watching TV and having it in front of you. It’s just not comfortable to type on.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I agree.

Brian Brushwood Yeah, just now I’ve only been able to do a hunting pack. There’s no way to touch type.

Leo Laporte Well, that’s my point again is that there is – although I think it’s a pretty good email app. I want to actually do an experiment with my wife who is using a 13-inch MacBook and give her an iPad because it’s more complex than she needs.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah.

Leo Laporte And iPad I think is fine for what she does which is email, occasional surfing. I think it’s going to be [ph] fun (27:15) for a lot of people. I am giving an 80 year old – my 80 year old father-in-law the same thing. I think if – for limited content creation fine, for quick emails fine.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah.

Leo Laporte But mostly it’s a consumption device. But that’s just my opinion.

Baratunde Thurston One of the – on the creation side, one of the people I was hanging out with, Rana Sobhany, she makes a lot of electronic music. And she is doing like iPad symphonies and DJ remixes. And it seems like this device is great for music content creation.

Leo Laporte See I might have been wrong, yeah.

Baratunde Thurston Because you have –

Leo Laporte [ph] Channel V (27:41).

Baratunde Thurston [Indiscernible] (27:42) you’ve sliders, you’ve dials, you’ve keys.

Veronica Belmont Yeah, that’s really cool.

Baratunde Thurston So I am looking forward to see what musicians do with this.

Leo Laporte Touch is a significant interface advancement.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah.

Leo Laporte And mutltitouch on the iPhone, yeah, we’ll got it, say, that’s cool. But when you put it on a 10 – 24x768 screen, there is a lot to be said for touch. I think if it’s done right, it’s pretty powerful.

Brian Brushwood If we can go back to the –

Veronica Belmont You know what, it’s something – go ahead.

Brian Brushwood Oh, I was going to say, if we can go back to the Wii analogy, I mean Wii was a new development in the way you interacted with your games. And now we’re seeing the Microsoft Natal and the PS3 stuff –

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Brian Brushwood It’s like, that’s great. Let’s herald the game changer for what it is.

Veronica Belmont And I think in terms of an image manipulation device, I think people see it as a tablet and a lot of people associate tablets with being able to do photo editing and manipulation in a creative way. And I think even though you can’t use a stylus and you’re not going to be using it like a Wacom tablet, you can still have brush strokes. And I think that’s going to evolve in a big way as well in the future.

Leo Laporte Cool. All right, I am going to cut this short because I know people are sick to death of the iPad. I think there is plenty to say. I think it’s important, but I am going to –

Baratunde Thurston Keep moving.

Leo Laporte Honor your nausea. And we’ll take a break. Come back, there are a couple of big stories including a big hit in net neutrality. I think we probably should talk about the fact that Apple has – in iPhone 4.0 the most significant thing wasn’t one of the tentpoles but was that you cannot use anything but Apple software to develop for this platform. I think that’s very important.

Brian Brushwood Is that anti-competitive? Is that what you’re hinting it?

Leo Laporte We’ll talk about it.

Brian Brushwood All right. All right. Anti-social, that’s what it is.

Leo Laporte It’s funny because Steve Jobs actually weighed in on this. And he referred to a blogger and said he is kind of right. So we’ll talk about that in just a little bit. Before we do that, I do want to mention my friends at Citrix who do the great GoToMyPC program. It’s interesting. I think one of the most interesting uses of the iPad, maybe not the most useful, but kind of interesting is to use it as a virtual machine to access other computers. They have GoToMeeting for instance for the iPad. So you can join a meeting on the iPad. Not yet with GoToMyPC. But I have to think that’s coming soon.

Brian Brushwood Oh, any minute.

Leo Laporte Wouldn’t that be cool?

Baratunde Thurston Big screen.

Leo Laporte GoToMyPC allows you to access your computer from anywhere, Mac or PC. It’s very easy to install. In fact you might as well – I have got a 30-day free trial for you. You might as well just try it on the computer you’re sitting at, Windows or Mac, not your iPad. Go to You are going to do it. Aren’t you? [ph] You’ve got (30:04) Baratunde. He’s trying it.

Go to and install it for 30 days free. Now here is the thing, a couple of minutes you will be able to access that computer anywhere you go as long as you can get online. You can run any program, access email, send and receive, access network resources, copy files from one or the other. It’s kind of the ultimate convenience tool, especially for people who travel. Put it on your office computer, you can go home early. Put it on your home computer, you’ll be never be without that key file.

Absolutely free, completely secure. There has never been an exploit with GoToMyPC, which is something you cannot say for any other remote access product. 128 bit SSL encryption, point-to-point, I use this as a VPN as well by the way. If you are in a kind of sketch Internet café – and that’s why I want to see this on the iPad, you fire up GoToMyPC and now you’re surfing –

I have it on this computer. I am surfing from my computer here instead of from the Internet café and it’s completed encrypted up to this point, which means no one can see what I am doing.

Brian Brushwood Does it make me a bad person that I use it to go from one room of my house to another room of my house because I don’t want to walk around the corridor?

Baratunde Thurston Yeah.

Brian Brushwood Making me a little bit lazy.

Baratunde Thurston Yes, on behalf of all people not named Brian Brushwood, yes. That makes you a –

Leo Laporte It’s bizarre.

Brian Brushwood This is all the way downstairs.

Leo Laporte No, that’s – you know what, that’s a great use for it.

Baratunde Thurston This is why they hate us.

Leo Laporte No, that’s a great use for it,, give it a try today. You are going to loves it.

So the Court of Appeals in Washington, D.C., District of Columbia, ruling on the Comcast case, just to give you a recap, Comcast was using a technology called Sandvine to monitor customers’ interactions. This was a couple of years ago. And when they saw that they were on BitTorent, they would send a bogus BitTorent pack that said disconnect, I am done, disconnecting them from BitTorent, interfering with there –

Brian Brushwood On behalf of.

Leo Laporte On behalf of –

Brian Brushwood The users.

Leo Laporte Yes, to do you a favor, I am just going to disconnect that torrent. You didn’t really want that file, did you? FCC gave them a big fine, slapped them on the wrist, said, you can’t do that. That violates net neutrality. Of course, Comcast appealed. Now interestingly, they have discontinued use of these Sandvine boxes. But they still don’t like the idea that the FCC might tell them what to do. And it was a fairly hefty fine.

The District of Columbia Court of Appeals gave them a win, gave Comcast a win and ruled that Comcast could in fact regulate high speed Internet traffic over its own system and – then a company who wanted to push its content through Comcast pipelines could not. But even more significantly, it said that the FCC has no standing to regulate. FCC acts – I remember talking back when Michael Powell was the Chairman of the FCC about this.

FCC can only do what Congress says it can do. So Congress says you can regulate broadcast TV. FCC can do it. Congress never said they could regulate the Internet. And that was Comcast’s case basically.

Brian Brushwood I think it’s really interesting to see the way people interpret the story and tell it. For example, the way you said that this is – the story here is that it’s a blow for net neutrality. But the story as I see it is the FCC doesn’t get to run the Internet.

Leo Laporte Well, and that’s – it’s interesting because I went to an EFF event. And John Perry Barlow was talking who is on the Board of the EFF. And he said even on the Board of EFF we can’t decide which is worst, should – government intervention in the Internet or big phone companies deciding what content can be pushed. It’s bad both ways.

Brian Brushwood Right, well and I tell you, it’s like I’d rather have – look, net neutrality is something we all want. And it is like bureaucracies are built to grow, right. It look for a finger hole to get into. And the question up until now is well, why should the FCC regulate the Internet? We’re all just handling things on our own. And the FCC found something that we all want that we don’t have the power to instantly do on our own. And they are like and to me it’s the poison bill. It’s like, oh, you want to net neutrality. We can do that for you.

Leo Laporte You really don’t want the government regulating the Internet but I got to point this out. You wouldn’t – and this is what Comcast basically says, hey, there is free market. If you don’t like it and we are limiting what you can do with your Internet, you are free to go somewhere else. And the problem is there isn’t a free market by the way.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah.

Brian Brushwood It’s certainly getting – I mean you are right.

Leo Laporte It’s partly due to the FCC by the way.

Brian Brushwood Exactly, but it – and it’s certainly not an efficient free market. But 10 years ago I had maybe one or two choices, Dial-up or Road Runner and that was it. But now in my neighborhood I have two choices for fiber optics. We’ve got Clear, the 4G network. We’ve got the old Hughes satellite connection. There is – my friend has some kind of other [ph] Long Key (34:55) radio-based service. It’s like we’re not where we need to be. We’re not where we want to be. But the markets are only going to get more efficient. And if we can possibly hold off on having another type of bureaucracy.

Leo Laporte Well, let me give you an example. Okay, now I’ll give you an example. You tell me what you do about this. I agree with you. I think maybe the free market will make this move. Comcast is buying NBC.

Brian Brushwood Oh, man.

Leo Laporte You want to watch 30 Rock. It just so happens that if you would watch 30 Rock on the Comcast netbook, it would look really good because we’re going to give you priority access. But if you would try to watch it on some other form of access, it would not be as good.

Brian Brushwood I mean – I think that’s clearly an anti-competitive practice then, right.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah.

Brian Brushwood There would be – we have facilities to do that.

Leo Laporte So the existing laws would be sufficient.

Brian Brushwood Yeah, I would certainly hope so. Look, the Internet is the greatest thing to happen in my entire lifetime. And part of what makes it great is this bizarre experiment in almost complete anarchy. And we watch these self-generating structures occur. And that’s part of what we love. We love this random wisdom of the crowds. And I just – if there’s anything we could do to keep any kind of regulatory force from getting its hooks into it, hold off as long as we can –

Leo Laporte Baratunde, you are a socialist, what do you think?

Brian Brushwood I know, I know by the way I was dreading this because I love Baratunde.

Baratunde Thurston Can you please, please make my [ph] [indiscernible] say (36:12) socialist.

Brian Brushwood Absolutely.

Baratunde Thurston Because I just feel I am lying if you don’t do that. I share the attention, the concern of attention between leading the “free market” those are massive quotation marks because if you look at the studies of overall Internet availability across the country, certain areas of the country have a lot of competition, vast swathes of it do not, rural America has no option, lots of poor intercity America has no option and in fact what you see happening is a very strange collaboration between certain civil rights organizations and telecom companies, and the telecom companies are saying kind of look, if you are pro-net neutrality on the kind of production and content distribution side or we may just not find it in our interest to build it out to your part of America.

Leo Laporte It’s redlining.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah, it’s a digital redlining that’s happening and it’s digital blackmailing that’s happening, and you have some of these historic organizations which are to prevent discrimination sort of being pulled in this odd direction of access versus content production.

Leo Laporte [ph] So it’s a (37:11) deal with the devil because I want to get access so I am going to do a deal with AT&T even if they are not good in the long run.

Baratunde Thurston And I think the [indiscernible] (37:19) because the Internet has an ideal behind it, and if we are going to try to push towards something good and beautiful then we want to look at how media and communications have been organized and [ph] they are vary (37:29), they are owned by a few. You have 7% minority ownership of TV stations, 3% minority ownership –

Leo Laporte By the way that’s only because the FCC mandated that.

Baratunde Thurston Right, and so you look at something like the Internet and media production and communication across it, you say we can build a better world on this platform, let us not repeat those mistakes of the past that concentrate power into so few hands –

Leo Laporte That’s the argument.

Baratunde Thurston And let’s try to keep the lanes clear without [indiscernible] (37:51) too much. So I definitely hear [indiscernible] (37:54).

Brian Brushwood [Indiscernible] (37:54).

Baratunde Thurston But I have to [indiscernible] (37:57) try to be.

Brian Brushwood Right now we have no regulation by FCC at all. In 2003, 15% of Americans had access to broadband, now in 2010 we have 95% of the Americans have access to broadband and this happened without any kind of regulation from the FCC. It happened on its own by market forces and there is redlining words like yeah, it’s hard to run fiber optic out in the middle of the sticks, but that’s why some of these WiMAX things are working out, that’s why like the Hughes Direct PC stuff, the satellite based…

Leo Laporte So do you – well, first of all, I would like to scrap it, you don’t want that.

Brian Brushwood It is crap, but…

Leo Laporte But do you feel like the government broadband plan which the FCC announced, by the way the chief feature of which is to get Internet into these rural areas that it’s not economically viable for big companies, do you think that’s a bad idea, you think government should not be in that business.

Baratunde Thurston I think it is a very delicious plate of goodies that I really want and I am very tempted; however, I am not willing to pay the price to get my hand into that bag.

Brian Brushwood I want to do a spin off show with you just on this.

Leo Laporte Okay.

Brian Brushwood Because when you look at the utility of broadband and the Internet, whether it’s healthcare delivery, coupons, job applications, education, they are blending from this – they are not – they are no longer a luxury item. If you want to exist in a reasonable capacity in this modern society, you need broadband to get it done or else you suffer a severe competitive disadvantage.

Leo Laporte Veronica be a voice of reasoning.

Veronica Belmont I just…

Brian Brushwood So that the delay…

Veronica Belmont I just [indiscernible] (39:20) caught up on the conversation because my call is dropping.

Leo Laporte I know, I know it dropped yeah, but basically we’re talking about the ruling that came out of Washington D.C. this week, the District of Columbia Court of Appeals which said that Comcast did not have to do what the FCC said, but they were not liable when they blocked BitTorrent traffic that Comcast should be allowed to monitor and modify their…

Brian Brushwood I get this is the way, like the way I say, the way I hear it is they say no this is not your jurisdiction FCC.

Leo Laporte They did, that’s right.

Brian Brushwood Right. Which is different from saying, they didn’t say we think it’s okay, but they were spoofing individual people, because look their civil action there, if your company impersonates you and speaks on your behalf, I would say there is a civil lawsuit that could be brewing. It could be handled entirely by the [indiscernible] (40:05).

Baratunde Thurston No because, I am not totally disagreeing with you, I am trying to imagine another scenario where – what happens, you described a 10-year lag in broadband adoption to certain communities and it’s not just an inconvenient to not being able to use your iPad. It’s the difference between getting the same quality healthcare options or the same market information.

Leo Laporte Don’t you think Brian….

Baratunde Thurston …and I think that cost communities a lot.

Veronica Belmont I think a little regulation [indiscernible] (40:29).

Brian Brushwood What cost innovation?

Leo Laporte Go ahead Veronica.

Veronica Belmont Well, that’s it, I just think that a little like, I think that the FCC should regulate the Internet at some point. I think it sets a scary standard in terms of net neutrality.

Leo Laporte I know exactly what Brian says though, there is no such thing as a little regulation.

Brian Brushwood Yeah.

Leo Laporte You see because I know how you people think.

Brian Brushwood But there is also no such thing, there is also no such thing as a free market.

Leo Laporte Oh! no.

Brian Brushwood There really isn’t. I mean these guys [indiscernible] (40:53).

Leo Laporte There may be such a thing as a free market, but the free market does not solve all problems. In fact the free market has some real issues…

Brian Brushwood But it’s also…

Leo Laporte …and there is an issue where the free market doesn’t work is where there isn’t true competition and I think that it’s pretty safe to say that why you are lucky Brian, you have many, many choices in Austin for good reasons…

Baratunde Thurston All of America should live in your house, sit in your ivory tower, but there are a lot of places…

Leo Laporte And you can blame the FCC for this, where there is duopoly, where there is a phone; there are two encumberances, cable company and the phone company. They both have copper. They both have no incentive to improve their copper physical plant because they have invested a lot of money in it. They are still amortizing the cost. So they are not going fiber. This is my Google’s doing the fiber for communities thing, and I think that the FCC – look there is regulation in this world. You think there should be no regulation.

Brian Brushwood Oh no, I am not stepping to that trap, sir.

Leo Laporte So there is a place where some times regulation is appropriate.

Brian Brushwood Oh yeah, but why not, why not for example, there is a couple of great success stories in self-policing and self-regulation. I for one I’m glad that there is no law regulating how movies are set with from PG to...

Leo Laporte I agree with you.

Brian Brushwood I’m glad, [ph] caller-tunes about the (42:01) MPAA. They do it right and everybody thought they’d do it right.

Leo Laporte I don’t know if they do it right, but it’s volunteered and that’s the point.

Brian Brushwood Exactly right, second of all Underwriters Laboratories are the people that examine electronics, now nobody, no you cannot get an item into Wal-Mart stores, if it’s electronic...

Leo Laporte Yeah. Let me tell you something though, if the FCC didn’t have FCC, B Class certification nothing in this room would work, because there would be 800 devices that generated enough RF to block every other device.

Baratunde Thurston And if you want to go in back to the [indiscernible] (42:29) decision you wouldn’t be allowed to attach any device to the network.

Leo Laporte That’s right. We actually be using the rubber – hard rubber Western Electric phones do.

Brian Brushwood That was a government protected monopoly. That’s…

Leo Laporte Well, that’s right, that’s right.

Brian Brushwood Only when you open it up to the free market that you could get all this [indiscernible] (42:42) Oh! look, nicely done.

Leo Laporte All right, poor Veronica is sitting out on the Skype [indiscernible] (42:49).

Veronica Belmont I just wish I had been in the beginning of the conversation because then I could actually like get a feel for how you guys got to where you are right now.

Baratunde Thurston I’m still glad we are still [indiscernible] (42:54).

Leo Laporte No, it’s a fact, you know, well – I don’t think there is a right answer to this, this is a very important conversation and as I said in the beginning even the Board of the Electronic Frontier Foundation couldn’t agree on this. They don’t like the idea of government regulating the Internet anymore than we do, but it does seem to me that you cannot trust Verizon, AT&T and Comcast…

Veronica Belmont Yeah.

Leo Laporte …to tell us what the Internet should be.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah, and you can’t [indiscernible] (43:17) should be deployed.

Brian Brushwood You can trust an angry mob of the Internet, I mean this – like stuff happens sometimes, maybe we can fix it, it is not an issue please.

Leo Laporte Well I agree, it may be that the good news is there will be enough third-party carriers like Clearwire and stuffs that we don’t, we don’t have this issue.

Baratunde Thurston Or, certainly there could be, certainly there could be enough of a campaign where the very idea of violating this principle of net neutrality is a liability to your, to your…

Leo Laporte Yeah. We know it.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah exactly.

Brian Brushwood Like a nuclear deterrent force.

Baratunde Thurston Exactly.

Leo Laporte Mutually assured destruction. Actually this is very interesting and this relates very closely to this other big hot topic right now, and there was a great article in The New York Times yesterday about Apple and the Gospel of the Web and I’m going to talk about that a little bit, the Gospel of the Web is that open systems, open standards are generative. They create innovation by the nature of being open and I think there is a very interesting point to be made that maybe you should rethink this Gospel of the Web. This is an article in The New York Times by Steven Johnson. I’ll give you the link in a second and we can talk about it. You guys get prepared while I tell you about backing up, one reason you do want to have high-speed Internet is because the best kind of backup is an offsite backup, are you giving high fives to each other.

Brian Brushwood Oh yeah.

Baratunde Thurston [Indiscernible] (44:38) it’s a good discussion.

Leo Laporte It was a great conversation, nobody got killed, nobody was hurt, awesome. Well done gentlemen.

Veronica Belmont I didn’t have to hear most of it.

Baratunde Thurston All right, Veronica I have not actually met you in person, but we have to, I owe you for that.

Leo Laporte Veronica, I don’t want to say, who is your, who is your Internet access provider?

Veronica Belmont Comcast.

Brian Brushwood Okay, I don’t want to say anything but I noticed that your Skype dropped out, while we started talking about that…

Veronica Belmont I know, they heard me comment [indiscernible] (45:02) cut her off.

Leo Laporte Yeah. For all I know the stream stops too and all the people watching can see it. Backup is important and offsite backup is paramount, I talked a little bit about my friend Peter Krogh, the guy who wrote the Digital Asset Management book, the DAM book. He is – done a lot of thinking about backup as a photographer very important to keep your digital assets covered and he came up with the idea of a 321 backup system. And I think this is really good. If you can get this in your head, backup will never be a mystery again and you will never lose a file again.

Three – means three copies of everything. Your original copy on your computer and then two additional copies, the two is those two copies should be on different media. Don’t burn everything to two copies at DVDs, because if the DVD oxidates and you – or you don’t have a DVD player you are done. Two different formats, the one is one of these three copies should be offsite. Three copies, two different media, one offsite. This is why I recommend Carbonite. Carbonite [indiscernible] (46:05) you go right now to, use the offer code TWiT and get 15 days free, you don’t need a credit card or anything.

Immediately it starts backing up the personal files in your computer. This is really good for a laptop. People lose laptops like crazy, put this Carbonite in your laptop, every time you are connected to the Internet it starts uploading your stuff.

Now the first upload will take a little while, especially if you got gigabytes, but once you’ve got that main backup done very quick to just keep those changes updated and you’ve always got a good copy and a good copy is not sitting next to your computer where fire, flood or earthquake can destroy it or burglars can steal it. A good copy that’s encrypted and stored safely in the cloud.

Now here’s a couple of other good reasons to use Carbonite; automatic, offsite, encrypted less than five bucks a month for every personal file on your computer. It doesn’t cover external drives and network drives, just the internal files, but that could be hundreds of gigabytes. I use it to backup the podcasts literally is hundreds of gigabytes.

Brian Brushwood Let me tell you and the longer you go without doing a Carbonite thing it’s like the more, it’s just a matter of time, you’re going to have that crash and then, and more importantly the farther back your digital memories go…

Leo Laporte Right.

Brian Brushwood Like, back to when your kids are born and [indiscernible] (47:13).

Leo Laporte Oh, you don’t want to lose that stuff, you do not want to lose that stuff.

Brian Brushwood And that’s even – at least if you had a fire they write you a big fat check at the end of it, crisis like [indiscernible] (47:22).

Leo Laporte You are dead.

Veronica Belmont Oh, well too bad.

Leo Laporte Back it up with Carbonite, offer code TWiT two free weeks and then if you decide to buy and I do want you to do the trial, because you want to make sure you met sufficient, just want to use it, first macro PC by the way. After you’ve tried it, you can get two months free and you sign up as long as you use the offer code TWiT,, you got to back it up to get it back. It’s that simple.

So I really thought this was a – and it’s the same, in a way it’s the same conversation. It doesn’t have to do with government regulation, but it’s the nature of open. In the article in the Times yesterday, Steven Johnson quotes Harvard’s Jonathan Zittrain, who talks about…

Baratunde Thurston Author of the Future of the Internet and how to stop it.

Leo Laporte Yeah, you’ve read it?

Baratunde Thurston Yeah.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Really neat, interesting guy. He talks about generative – the generative power of the net. He says, when you don’t have to ask permission to create and share new ideas; when small, innovative start-ups can compete with giant multinationals – I think of us as exact – a good copy of that, you know, I’m competing with Rupert Murdoch, even though he’s got all this power, thanks to the Internet and inexpensive consumer electronics, I can create television that anybody in the world can see.

So that’s the generative power of an open, free Internet, the kind of thing that we want to protect. Whether it’s through government regulation – which I know some people don’t like the idea, or maybe through market – free markets, but we need to protect, you’d agree with that, right, Brian?

Brian Brushwood I just love the fact that you guys both looked at each other, ‘which some people…’

Leo Laporte Some people who shall remain nameless, Brian Brushwood, Libertarian. You would categorize yourself as a Libertarian?

Brian Brushwood Yeah, very much so.

Baratunde Thurston Oh! that’s why it’s so fun to talk to you.

Brian Brushwood I know.

Baratunde Thurston It’s great, it’s just great. And I’m saying that seriously.

Leo Laporte You know what a Libertarian is?

Baratunde Thurston Yeah.

Leo Laporte It’s just a Republican in sheep’s clothing.

Baratunde Thurston That’s not true, that’s definitely not true.

Leo Laporte You don’t think so.

Brian Brushwood I’d like to think we get the – we’re just a fan of freedom on all sides.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah, they appeal to a lot of progressive people and they torture and…

Leo Laporte You know what a Socialist is? A Frenchman.

Baratunde Thurston A Frenchman. I’m sorry, go ahead. You were setting up the story.

Leo Laporte No, I forgot now where I was going. Oh, the generative power of the web, the open web. Okay, so then if you believe that, then you look at Steve Jobs and Apple and you say, well, this is the opposite, isn’t it? It’s a walled garden. It’s AOL. It’s MSN. It’s CompuServe all over again, where ‘we control everything rigidly.’ And you didn’t see any innovative stuff happening on those platforms because you couldn’t – it was their way or the highway.

Baratunde Thurston Right

Leo Laporte Well, here’s an interesting thing. Steve Jobs has created this Apps store, I think maybe against the will of Apple, it certainly wasn’t their original plan. You know, when the iPhone came out, they said, oh, you don’t need apps, you got web apps, it’s great, you should be happy. That didn’t work. So they created the Apps store.

Baratunde Thurston It was like they said, we will never, dot dot dot.

Leo Laporte They probably did! ‘We’ll never have apps.’ I’m sure he had some reason why apps were a bad thing, right?

Baratunde Thurston And why you would never want one.

Leo Laporte You wouldn’t want an app? So people demanded an app, year two, they made App Store. Year three, they’ve got 175,000 applications. 185. You can – there’s no one who could say, it hasn’t been innovative, that it hasn’t been generative. What the hell? How did this happen?

And that’s what Johnson’s writing about in The Times, he said, Rethinking a Gospel of the Web, this has been Gospel. Is it wrong?

Baratunde Thurston It’s a spectrum.

Leo Laporte It’s nothing black and white.

Baratunde Thurston It certainly is, and that’s sometimes a cop-out in an argument, but I think in this case –

Leo Laporte I think you’re right.

Baratunde Thurston It is true. Because Apple has opened the doors wide enough to let a lot of non-Apple innovation in, while still retaining control enough to maintain a user-experience that meets their standard. So not everybody agrees in that intersection. There are people who want apps and capabilities, tethering, routers, voice, VOIP, in the background – multitasking, that doesn’t meet Apple’s standard. And so they draw a line that is closer to home than what some innovators want, so not every type of innovation can happen. What Apple has decided is, well, we can’t do it all ourselves. I mean, there’s a benefit to the platform owners in opening up, because they can’t solve every problem, they can’t write every code.

And so they’ve drawn a compromising line which satisfies the vast majority of their audience. And the more purist, the more geek-oriented are less happy, because they love to do a lot more. They see potential that others might not. And so you get this frustration at that margin.

But overall, Apple’s been relatively open. I’m someone who’s pushed for a lot more from them. But I also recognize a lot of…

Leo Laporte Right. All right. So now let me – anybody wants to say anything before I throw the monkey wrench?

Brian Brushwood This really makes me think of the Ed Fulton blog where he said ‘iPad is the Disneyland of…’

Leo Laporte Disneyland?

Brian Brushwood Yeah.

Leo Laporte It’s a sanitized experience.

Brian Brushwood Right, which is very – it’s everything you wish, like, just like the middle of downtown of Disneyland is the little quaint American town, it’s the exact picture of how you…

Leo Laporte ‘This is how it used to be in America when everybody ate candied apples…’

Brian Brushwood Exactly. When none of the apps crashed.

Leo Laporte No apps crashed.

Baratunde Thurston There was no Blue Screen of Death.

Veronica Belmont It’s an interesting combination, because you have this walled garden where you can create applications and they work really well and Apple has this set of standards that you develop by. And on the same token, if you don’t like that, you can go to a more open operating system like Android or Palm OS. And then you can have that experience.

And it’s like do you either want to make applications that you can sell millions of copies on in the Apple Store? Or do you want to develop something that’s more open and cross-platform on Android or Palm?

Leo Laporte It’s true though, let’s point it out, that there is a very good web browser on the iPad and the iPhone. And it’s Safari. And you can even run web apps that I can design and anybody can design. But now here is the monkey wrench. Because in iPhone 4.0 agreement, Apple did something that I think the tent poles are meaningless compared to this. They said, ‘going forward, you may not develop applications for this platform, iPhone, iPod Touch or iPad, with anything but Apple approved tools.’

Baratunde Thurston And I thought they just said, ‘screw you, Adobe!’

Leo Laporte Yeah, it was clearly, screw you, Adobe.

Baratunde Thurston That’s what – was I wrong in reading it that way?

Veronica Belmont Yeah, that’s what – that’s exactly what they were saying.

Leo Laporte So, you know…

Brian Brushwood How can they – I guess they could tell because the code generated clearly indicates what…

Leo Laporte Oh, yeah.

Brian Brushwood Software was used…

Baratunde Thurston They’re not quite as sloppy as FrontPage making websites but – that’s rude.

Leo Laporte And this only works – Microsoft could have done the same thing with Windows except that anybody could sell applications. It was an open platform. You cannot sell applications unless Apple says yes, right. So this only works because Apple gets to say what applications run.

Brian Brushwood By the way, this is a really interesting face-off because on the one hand, Apple has first mover advantage. It has all the momentum. It currently has most of the software. But it seems like in the long term – I mean I believe Apple was pretty far ahead in the PC days early on until Microsoft was completely open to everyone.

Leo Laporte Right.

Brian Brushwood And I wonder, it will be real interesting to see if the Android completely open architecture allows for – I don’t know allows for catch up, I don’t know.

Leo Laporte I think an Android tablet could be pretty good.

Baratunde Thurston I think it could be good. But I think Apple has learned from the past. They’re not repeating the same mistake. First of all, they integrated a lot more. And the big step is commerce. What Veronica was talking about with – you can go to Android or Palm OS, but you can’t get as large a pool of money at your footsteps as a developer, as a content producer or seller than you can get in the iTunes App Store. They’ve made the friction between you and getting that app and the money in between really slick, super smooth, super fast. So if you want…

Veronica Belmont Yes.

Baratunde Thurston You can’t make a web app.

Leo Laporte If you are a developer it’s pretty good.

Baratunde Thurston Monetizing that web app is a lot harder on an iPhone than selling it at the App Store would be, because there’s no…

Veronica Belmont And plus, as Gruber said, it’s really dangerous for Apple to rely on something like Flash. When if anything happens to Flash and it breaks and suddenly all of these iPhone apps no longer work or iPad apps, then that’s going to be a bad experience for the users.

Leo Laporte I got a feel for John because Steve Jobs actually – somebody said – a developer sent him an email saying, ‘I hate this.’ Jobs said, no, ‘read John Gruber’s blog post because we think he has got it right.’

Baratunde Thurston Yeah.

Leo Laporte And I’ve got – I think that John’s going – he’s cringing, right? ‘Oh damn.’

Baratunde Thurston Looks like he is Steve’s fan.

Leo Laporte And although it’s a great honor. But Gruber said some interesting things. Gruber did, in that same blog post, point out that Apple – it’s a lock-in for Apple that Apple is – it’s good for business. He says it’s mostly good for users. And this is the question. Is a move like this for Apple’s benefit or our benefit?

Brian Brushwood Oh, I think it’s…

Baratunde Thurston Well, I think it’s for the benefit of the Objective-C developer whose price just went up because what you’ve done is made development more expensive.

Leo Laporte So you’re saying developers should like it?

Baratunde Thurston I’m not saying developers as a group should like it. What I am saying is they have segmented –

Leo Laporte Right.

Baratunde Thurston They’ve forced the segmentation in the developer market.

Leo Laporte It does mean if you are a company developing mobile software, you can’t develop on one plat – one code that runs on all platforms.

Baratunde Thurston Yes, so they are sort of de-commoditizing developments.

Leo Laporte That’s a good way to put it.

Veronica Belmont Well, it seems a lot of cross-platform applications tend not to be as fully featured and nice to use –

Leo Laporte Again, John Gruber’s point.

Veronica Belmont As ones that are developed strictly for the iPhone or iPad operating system.

Leo Laporte He points to the Kindle app on the Mac and says it’s a – I think a turd was the word he used.

Veronica Belmont He used turd?

Leo Laporte He used that word, yes.

Veronica Belmont I don’t think it’s that bad. But I can see where he’s coming from for other things.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Brian Brushwood I mean is the case where the output with using those tools was so unbelievably bad that they just needed to protect the consumer?

Leo Laporte No. I don’t think so. No.

Brian Brushwood I mean this is clearly a ‘we’re going to make it a little bit difficult for you.’

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Veronica Belmont Well, how many consumers are even going to notice?

Leo Laporte Nobody does.

Veronica Belmont Unless something is breaking, they’re not going to care whether it’s something that’s been developed as a cross-platform application or if it’s something that was developed solely for the iPhone. I mean maybe the geeks will notice if they can’t run an application between Android and you know…

Leo Laporte Gruber notices if the kerning isn’t perfect on an application.

Veronica Belmont Right.

Leo Laporte He’s not the typical user.

Veronica Belmont He is the one percentile.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Veronica Belmont As are we probably in that regard too.

Leo Laporte So is what Apple’s doing anti-competitive?

Brian Brushwood It’s certainly rude.

Leo Laporte It’s rude.


Baratunde Thurston I believe it’s ill mannered.

Brian Brushwood Flash to Apple, you hurt our feelings.

Veronica Belmont Why is it anti-competitive?

Leo Laporte Because it’s saying, essentially, ‘Adobe, screw you.’ Because Adobe has been working on it – but not just Adobe there are other projects as well, to work on cross-platform development products that will include Flash on the iPhone, that will allow Adobe to get back on to the iPhone. And Apple’s basically shut the – slamming the door on them.

Baratunde Thurston Days ahead of that.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Baratunde Thurston But I think what’s interesting – I’ve got into a heated but respectful email argument with someone – I was complaining about –


Brian Brushwood Everything’s fine here. We’re all fine.


Veronica Belmont Not me. Don’t look at me.

Leo Laporte If you see a sizzling coming out of the tricaster…

Baratunde Thurston Apparently, Steve Jobs is upset.

Brian Brushwood Apparently, Baratunde said the wrong thing.

Baratunde Thurston It’s a code word. And the house collapsed.

Leo Laporte Here comes Collin because as soon as she hears liquid pour into the tricaster, she gets upset. I am sorry.

Brian Brushwood It seems like a well rehearsed maneuver she just did.

Leo Laporte Yeah. What were we talking about? Oh, yes,


Leo Laporte No, go ahead, what were you saying, Baratunde?

Veronica Belmont He’s like, I don’t know.

Leo Laporte She is worried about the broken glass next to my ball.

Brian Brushwood Oh, like that would ever…

Leo Laporte Get the recorders going because we don’t want to miss that opportunity. Oh, and also, it made you black and white.

Veronica Belmont Oh, wow, look at that.

Brian Brushwood I looked to see if that was me or Baratunde.

Leo Laporte He was actually shade – you were shades of gray.

Baratunde Thurston We are just – let’s say tromboning.

Brian Brushwood That’s right.

Leo Laporte Look at that. I’m sorry, we completely got off track.

Baratunde Thurston No, that’s all right. I’ll have to go back to the chat room and look to pick up --

Brian Brushwood The chat room will get us back on track.

Baratunde Thurston Where was I?

Brian Brushwood They say we were talking about porn.

Leo Laporte Seems like we are always talking about porn according to the chat room. Anyway.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah, I mean…

Leo Laporte Anyway.

Baratunde Thurston Oh, here’s where I was going. Wal-Mart – not just anyone can sell into Wal-Mart.

Leo Laporte Right.

Baratunde Thurston Right? It’s a private enterprise, it’s huge.

Leo Laporte That’s right.

Baratunde Thurston And millions of people go there.

Leo Laporte That should be.

Baratunde Thurston Apple you know…

[Sound Effect]

Brian Brushwood Right on cue, well done.


Leo Laporte Every time I load that page, it takes like ten seconds to play the damn thing.

Brian Brushwood And he’s off to some like really cogent point and you give him that.

Baratunde Thurston I was really gearing up. I was starting to feel it. The ideas were flowing.

[Sound Effect]

Baratunde Thurston And then farty trombone sound.

Leo Laporte Farty trombone sound.

Baratunde Thurston But we look at the old bricks and mortar world, we say, okay, the Internet doesn’t have to be that way. And so people want a little bit more.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Baratunde Thurston And so there is this aspiration for something. And Apple satisfies a big chunk of it. I am kind of repeating myself. What do you think, Veronica?

Leo Laporte I know. Veronica, you help us here because you didn’t get wine spilled all over you.

Veronica Belmont No, I didn’t unfortunately and maybe that’s a good reason I didn’t have cocktails…

Leo Laporte We should get some whiskey for you.

Veronica Belmont …or a glass of wine over here. What was the question? I’m sorry. I was reading the chat room.


Baratunde Thurston With openness, John – Apple versus Flash.

[Sound Effect]


Baratunde Thurston Is this really still happening?

Brian Brushwood We want to have such great track, man. They were totally [indiscernible] (59:49) highway.

Leo Laporte It’s like Groundhog Day. It’s like Groundhog Day.

Brian Brushwood [Indiscernible] (59:50) happened.

Veronica Belmont It’s not as if – Flash not working on the iPhone and on the iPad.

Leo Laporte I don’t care. Yeah, forget it, who cares.

Veronica Belmont For me, really, I think HTML5 and other…

Leo Laporte HTML5, thank you. That’s the future.

Veronica Belmont …are the way of the future.

Leo Laporte Thank you.

Veronica Belmont So I don’t know. Oh, now they are calling me anti-developer. This is fabulous.

Leo Laporte No. You’re actually developer kryptonite I think is what they are saying.

Baratunde Thurston Apple is – this is where they are inspiring and bullying at the same time.

Leo Laporte Yeah, very interesting, isn’t it?

Baratunde Thurston They move the market. They created a device that – there’s only 450,000 of these. And every website that makes video is changing the way it delivers that video on the hope that it will work on this small market device right now.

Leo Laporte That’s not a small market. You got 85 million iPad touches and iPhones.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah.

Leo Laporte It’s not that small a market. But it’s interesting. If I am Adobe, I am feeling a little [indiscernible] (60:35) because Apple’s clearly targeting Adobe as well as Google.

Baratunde Thurston This is personal.

Brian Brushwood Oh yes. Probably, they put some 1984 stuff when they took the word Google.

Leo Laporte Doesn’t say Google.

Brian Brushwood Yeah because you type it then it’s like --

Leo Laporte Open Safari, Baratunde, on the iPad and instead of saying Google, it used to Google when you enter a search term, it now says search.

Baratunde Thurston Mine says Google.

Brian Brushwood Mine still says Google, yeah.

Leo Laporte What?

Veronica Belmont That makes sense because then you can get Yahoo! or Google.

Brian Brushwood I think it was the button.

Leo Laporte No, no, no. When you type – okay, it was on the keyboard. So tap that and says – here now it says, search.

Baratunde Thurston You know – but – in my vocabulary [ph] there’s millions of web search (61:09).

Leo Laporte It is search.

Baratunde Thurston And they are the same word.

Leo Laporte And the reason they did that – again, Apple is so clever because they always can say, oh!, no, what we meant was the reason that they did that is they now have a setting in the settings to say what do you want to use for your search engine. Well, we can’t say Google. We should say search and then whatever you are using that’s what search is to you.

Brian Brushwood You clever, clever Lapples.

Veronica Belmont That’s kind of a non-issue, really.

Leo Laporte Yeah, all right, I am sorry I brought that up.

Baratunde Thurston In terms of 4.0, the one other thing I thought was huge and I was listening to this other cool show on Digital Media and iAds.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Okay.

Baratunde Thurston The idea that Apple may be going to try to do ads, what they do for users.

Leo Laporte Okay. Let me run this by. Let me just run Steve’s numbers by. Okay. So this all started because there was a company, a third party company called AdMob that started putting ads on iPhone applications. Apple said, hey, we got to get a little piece of that. So they tried to buy him. They had 30 days to negotiate. They let it run out unaccountably. And Google said, the 30 days are up. And they bought him for $600 million. Apple said, oh, shoot. So they went out and bought something called Quattro, nobody ever heard of, same idea and they have now announced iAds. Google’s got AdMob, Apple’s got iAds. So here is Steve Jobs, comes up on stage. Now, remember, he is talking to developers, not to us.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah.

Brian Brushwood You would know it from our excitement over the talk though.

Leo Laporte Well, let me tell you what he said. And you tell me what you think. He said, we know that there are 85 million iPod Touches and iPhones out. There will be let’s say 100 million, easier to do the numbers, in the next year. We know that on average a user spends half an hour looking at his or her iPhone everyday. If we put, this is the number that got me, an ad in every three minutes, that’s 10 ad impressions per person. That’s one billion ad impressions a day on our platform. And I could just see the dollar signs in Steve’s eyes.

Baratunde Thurston It’s also 100 million broken devices people slamming on to the ground.

Leo Laporte Well, that was my question. Three ads, I mean ad --

Brian Brushwood An ad every three minutes – now is that while like you are surfing the web or is that while you are playing like Farmville or whatever?

Leo Laporte Using any application with an iAd.

Brian Brushwood Oh, my goodness.

Veronica Belmont No Farmville on the iPad because that’s Flash.

Leo Laporte We Rule.

Brian Brushwood Right, We Rule, sorry.

Veronica Belmont We Rule.

Baratunde Thurston Good point, Veronica.

Leo Laporte So, We Rule, which is basically a Farmville clone.

Brian Brushwood Yeah.

Leo Laporte By the way, also We Rule uses its own gaming network. Apple also announced they are going to do a PS3 style gaming network.

Veronica Belmont That’s what I think is super interesting. I really wonder what’s going to happen to these networks like Plus+ which does the social networking aspect for games like We Rule and Titans.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Veronica Belmont They are basically pulling the rug out from underneath them.

Leo Laporte Exactly. Open thing – I use – but now there is one problem which is that there are multiplicity of game networks now on the iPhone. And I [ph] am in / mean (63:52) all of them because when you play Bejeweled – what is it? Bejeweled Buzz or whatever they call it, Blitz – Bejeweled Blitz, you are in one ad network, I think that’s open thing. If you’re playing We Rule, you are on another gaming network. So I could see Apple probably dominate here just as they will dominate in ads. So two things are going to happen. One is we are going to see a lot more ads on our iPhone.

Brian Brushwood Oh.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I can’t say I am happy about that.

Brian Brushwood Well and especially I mean, it’s like I understand. It’s like you want excite developers.

Leo Laporte Developers love it.

Brian Brushwood But it’s like – I don’t know, I mean are they really having a trouble that not enough people are developing for their platform that they need to attract some people to it.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Veronica Belmont Well, isn’t it just about the experience at the end of the day? I mean they want to have a kind of unified gaming platform for people so they can find their friends and work with them.

Leo Laporte Yes and I think that’s good.

Veronica Belmont That makes sense to me. It just kind of sucks for the developers who’ve created these networks to have that.

Leo Laporte I do feel bad for them. Yeah.

Veronica Belmont Yeah. It’s like if Facebook decided all of sudden that they wanted to do – I will keep talking about Farmville.

Leo Laporte Well, no. But that’s actually very apt because Facebook went the other way. They very intentionally opened up their application. They said, we are not going to do this. We are going to create a platform and encourage you to develop games.

Veronica Belmont Right but imagine if all of a sudden Facebook was like oh, look at all these millions and millions of dollars that Zynga is pulling in on Farmville and their other games. Why don’t we just do this and make a platform where people can play a game like Farmville. And then suddenly all that network is dissolved in the sense people find a better experience on the Facebook platform as opposed to in this tiny little microcosm of the application within – in Facebook.

Baratunde Thurston So we should all --

Brian Brushwood Oh, go ahead.

Baratunde Thurston We should all keep in mind that we are Apple’s outsourced beta testers and R&D department.

Leo Laporte Always.

Baratunde Thurston And they are going to – whether it’s the first – the people who buy version one pieces of hardware, the developers who invest in the new platforms, these people who create networks, Apple’s clearly watching all this. And they are making smart decisions. But they are also selling each of the results of those decisions back to us. So we are truly happy. It’s weird.

Brian Brushwood So – well, this is interesting. My co-host from NSFW, Justin just texted me saying that iAd essentially will take a whole bunch of $1 apps and make them free.

Leo Laporte Free.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah.

Brian Brushwood But I will tell you, man, [indiscernible] (65:69) rather spend the $1?

Leo Laporte And not see the ads.

Brian Brushwood And not have any ads.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah.

Brian Brushwood And you know what? If you have choice then maybe that’s cool.

Leo Laporte The worst case scenario is you still pay $1 and they have ads.

Brian Brushwood Well, that’s what I am afraid of, right?

Leo Laporte That’s exactly what’s going to happen.

Brian Brushwood But it’s truly a case where you could do one or the other then, that will be on board for that.

Leo Laporte Look at the CNN app, you pay three or $4 for it and put these ads for you. The Wall Street Journal app on the iPad is a bad situation.

Brian Brushwood All of the magazines [ph] seem (1:06:22) expensive and have non-skipable ads, is that right?

Leo Laporte Yeah. Twitter acquires Tweetie. Well good and bad, this is another case where if you’re a developer on the Twitter platform...

Veronica Belmont Yeah? I don’t know.

Leo Laporte …and all of a sudden Twitter is going to do the third-party apps…

Veronica Belmont It’s a problem with building an entire company on someone else’s API.

Leo Laporte It’s very similar. That’s what Fred Wilson warned people a week ago, Fred Wilson who does He was a venture capitalist early investor in Twitter and presumably has a pipeline in Twitter said in his blog just last week. Probably would want to build a business on the third-party app platform. Little late, Fred, you could have told us a year ago and we are right in those. So Twitter now has a BlackBerry app of their own and they own Tweetie.

Brian Brushwood Which by the way, the biggest thing that annoyed me about the decision of iTweetie like I guess two things, firstly I am actually a tweet that guy myself. I like feeling like I have command center of what the whole internet is thinking.

Veronica Belmont It really is command center, isn’t it?

Baratunde Thurston What about on your iPhone?

Brian Brushwood Same thing there. It’s pretty good on the iPhone, I like it.

Leo Laporte You should see it on the iPad.

Brian Brushwood Oh beautiful. I will try that.

Leo Laporte It’s exactly like…

Veronica Belmont I heard it wasn’t very good.

Brian Brushwood One of the things…

Leo Laporte No, it’s the same as the desktop basically because...

Brian Brushwood The biggest thing that killed me is that they are going to change the name. They are not going to call Tweetie anymore. Tweetie is synonymous with awesome iPhone app right now…

Leo Laporte Do you know why they are not going to cal it Tweetie?

Brian Brushwood Why?

Leo Laporte Because when you search for Twitter, what are you going to get, the Twitter app.

Baratunde Thurston Oh really?

Leo Laporte The Twitter app, not a Twitter app. All right.

Brian Brushwood It just kills me when you see all these brand value that’s been built over so many years on a consistent product that performs well and whose name means something…

Leo Laporte But why should Twitter care about that?

Baratunde Thurston But Twitter is a bigger name.

Veronica Belmont That’s not going to change, that’s not going to hurt anything about Tweetie.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah, Tweetie.

Veronica Belmont It’s going to hurt other third-party developers that have been toiling to create these great applications and now they have the 800 pound gorilla directly that they have to contend with.

Leo Laporte So I guess we should listen to Fred Wilson because what he says is – here’s what you should do. If you really wanted to make money on Twitter – and basically I think what Fred’s now is the messenger is saying, well this is what we’d like you to do next now. Now if I am a developer I am going to say, yeah until when, until you decide there’s enough money and then you want to take it over. But he says, mining the search – mining, you know, the information there. I think that’s absolutely an opportunity.

Baratunde Thurston But everyone who creates, I mean, this is an ISP question. When you run a platform and services on top of that platform, you are going to have conflict with the people you outsource the service layer too. Right? So Twitter has an awkward position where new people coming to Twitter are not the techies on the show, they are not the techies listening to the show, they search the app store for Twitter and they get 30 apps. And they can’t sort by the top line quality.

Veronica Belmont Yeah.

Leo Laporte Right.

Baratunde Thurston So you’re going to – you’re searching for Tweetie, you get terrific [indiscernible] (1:09:03)..

Leo Laporte You know who uses Twitter now?

Baratunde Thurston That’s crazy.

Leo Laporte Ice-T. Let me talk about a little battle between Academy Award winner and Ice-T, Academy Award winner Aimee Mann and Ice-T got a little Twitter battle. We need a name, think about it kids who we are talking here.

Baratunde Thurston Twaddle.

Leo Laporte Okay. You did it. That’s fine.

Brian Brushwood That was fast.

Leo Laporte He figured that one out fast – twaddle, it’s not – it’s a Twitter battle. It’s a twaddle. Oh. Yeah, you are good.

Baratunde Thurston You are welcome, America.

Leo Laporte I can see why The Onion is paying you those big bucks.

Veronica Belmont His work here is done.

Leo Laporte Yes. Twaddle, it’s easy, it’s twaddle., it’s time to mention our great friends at Audible. They do the – oh! yeah 70,000th book. Well, it’s actually is 70,000-title library of audio content because these are not just books, you get comedy performances, radio shows, performances of all kinds. I just love Audible. I want you to check it out at and if you would like a free audiobook from Audible I can work that. That’s not so hard to do. Just go to – in fact, I am going to give you two, you sign up for the Platinum account, that’s what I use, it’s two books a month that’s really kind of not a lot. That’s what’s great about Audible. You might have said I don’t have time to read two books a month, that’s a lot. Well, you do because there’s always time you spend in the car, in the gym, working in the house. You could be listening to wonderful books on Audible and you’d be surprised how fast two books a month can go. I tell you, I’ve had hundreds, literally, hundreds of books in my Audible library over the last eight years.

Baratunde Thurston Can I do some recommendations?

Leo Laporte Would you do a recommendation? I would love that.

Baratunde Thurston I want to recommend an author Joe Hill, joe_hill on Twitter. Great writer, he’s got Heart-Shaped Box…

Leo Laporte Oh! I know that.

Baratunde Thurston …. which is an incredible book.

Leo Laporte Is that about – that was about…

Baratunde Thurston It’s about an aging musician who buys a ghost off the Internet.

Leo Laporte Oh my god! Is that on Audible?

Brian Brushwood A ghost?

Baratunde Thurston It’s on Audible. Yes. But you’ve got to read the book to find out what that means.

Veronica Belmont I have a recommendation too.

Leo Laporte Okay. Good. But we need two books. So Horns is another one, Heart-Shaped Box or Horns by Joe Hill. Hey, you know what? Audible is having this half-price sale right now, and that’s one of the half-price books is Heart-Shaped Box. So this is a good time to join Audible and get it for less. Or get it for free by going to, Heart-Shaped Box by Joe Hill. And your recommendation?

Veronica Belmont I think you may have recommended it last week, I heard it [ph] the grapevine (1:11:33) but I am reading Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter.

Leo Laporte Is it good?

Veronica Belmont It’s okay. So I had it on my Goodreads under the humor category. Yeah, it’s not funny. It’s really scary. It’s like really super gory and kind of like I get that little twisting feeling in my stomach in some scenes...

Leo Laporte You’re kidding.

Veronica Belmont …when I am listening to it. And I was like wow! this is a lot more horror [ph] pace (01:11:57) than I imagined it to be.

Leo Laporte Wow!

Veronica Belmont So – but it’s really good.

Leo Laporte So this is kind of in that Pride and Prejudice and Zombies vein?

Veronica Belmont Right.

Leo Laporte Seth Grahame-Smith wrote this one. It’s narrated by Scott Holst. Let’s listen to a little bit of this.

Veronica Belmont Yes, I didn’t love the narrator at first and then I got used to it [ph] and I said, wow! (01:12:15)

Leo Laporte Oh, so you are listening to it. Okay.

Veronica Belmont Yes.

[Audio Presentation] (01:12:18 – 01:12:52)

Leo Laporte [ph] Oh, this is – isn’t this funny, you got completely inclined in there (01:13:00). That’s what happens…

Brian Brushwood Keep going, and…

Leo Laporte Yes, no, you are going to have to get the book. Go to I tell you I just love these books from Audible, and I thank you, Veronica, for stunning sterling recommendation that you and Tom passed along this Daniel Suarez books.

Veronica Belmont Oh, you love them?

Leo Laporte Oh, my God. If you haven’t read Demon and Freedom (TM), you’ve got to.

Baratunde Thurston I’m reading Demon right now.

Leo Laporte Isn’t it awesome?

Baratunde Thurston I’m just in the first 20 to 30 minutes, I’m so warming into it.

Leo Laporte Is it not the best thing? Oh, my God.

Veronica Belmont I’m really happy that people are enjoying them because they are just phenomenal books and…

Leo Laporte You interviewed him.

Veronica Belmont And he is a great writer and a smart guy…

Leo Laporte Yes.

Veronica Belmont Yes, we interviewed him on The Sword and Laser, and he was just wonderful to talk to and he really knows that world inside and out.

Leo Laporte You can tell.

Veronica Belmont Yes.

Leo Laporte He is speaking from knowledge.

Baratunde Thurston Yes.

Leo Laporte And I think they are actually very political books, which is kind of surprising. They start as potboilers and exciting mysteries and you know techno-mystery but it’s actually extremely political, and it’s a lot of the issues we have just been talking about in many ways.

Veronica Belmont Oh, yes, absolutely.

Leo Laporte Yes, there is two more good books. Did you get – you haven’t really got that part yet?

Baratunde Thurston No, no, I’m just…

Leo Laporte It’s still just people are dying. Yes.

Baratunde Thurston That’s exactly [indiscernible] (01:14:08) you didn’t sense the super enthusiasm because I was waiting and warming up to it. I did two Joe Hills back to back and this is so different from that, so the tone. My mind – it takes my mind a minute to adjust to a new writing style.

Leo Laporte Yes, yes, absolutely. One of the things that’s interesting about Suarez though is just clearly he has a political agenda and when you read the books you read – he develops it very logically so you are drawn into this, by the end of it you are going, [indiscernible] (01:14:33). Anyway, some great recommendations, Joe Hill, did you know that he is Steven King’s son?

Baratunde Thurston I did. I was actually trying intentionally not to mention that.

Brian Brushwood Why…

Baratunde Thurston Because he is Joe Hill.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Brian Brushwood And he is not his father; he is a great writer in his own right.

Leo Laporte I can’t – but it does make me want to read it because I’m a huge Steven King fan.

Baratunde Thurston Well, if it helps all the buzz then I – then yes, he is Steven King’s son.

Leo Laporte But he is not Steven King like.

Baratunde Thurston No, I mean, there are similarities, I can’t deny that…

Brian Brushwood I don’t care [ph] he is (01:14:56) Steven King like, I just want to know if he is Steven King talented.

Baratunde Thurston But he is good.

Leo Laporte I can’t wait.

Baratunde Thurston He is very good.

Leo Laporte Yes. That’s a good way to put it, yes.

Baratunde Thurston Yes. He is very good.

Leo Laporte So, man, we’ve got some stuff for you. Joe Hill, you can get two books if you want, there are at least two Joe Hill books on here.

Baratunde Thurston They’ve got – I think they’ve a collection of short stories in there too…

Leo Laporte Okay.

Baratunde Thurston I haven’t heard that yet.

Leo Laporte There is Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter, and of course then you can also, if you haven’t read the Daniel Suarez novels, there is two great ones there which is well, they are sequels.

Veronica Belmont And if you haven’t listened to any, if you like chick fanta – I mean not chick fantasy, chick mystery I really love Laurie R. King’s book. They are narrated by Jenny Sterlin, and they are amazing. It’s all like alternate – an alternate version of the Sherlock Holmes canon, I may have talked to you about it before.

Leo Laporte Oh, no, you haven’t. I can’t wait.

Veronica Belmont Yes, taken from a female perspective, and it’s really cool.

Baratunde Thurston I’m putting that in my queue.

Leo Laporte The Monstrous Regiment of Women.

Veronica Belmont Yes, you want to go to the first one…

Leo Laporte Folly, Keeping Watch.

Veronica Belmont The Language of Bees, that’s the…

Leo Laporte The Language of Bees, okay.

Veronica Belmont That’s the most recent one. The first one is, oh, crap, I can’t remember the name of it now, very first one she wrote but they are great. There is like eight or nine different books.

Leo Laporte Oh, man. Do you see why you need the Platinum plan? You start listening – and this is one of the things that really is interesting, we are all – just coincidentally, maybe not, we are all Audible listeners, and that’s one of the things that happens when Audible listeners get together, they just start saying what are you listening to, what’s good?

Veronica Belmont Yeah, what are you listening to?

Brian Brushwood Actually, you guys, you could, I can see the Audible snowball growing and I was just like not going to say anything, not going to say anything.

Leo Laporte Because you have some too.

Brian Brushwood Oh, no, yeah, but I’ll save them for another time.

Leo Laporte Save them for another time.

Brian Brushwood Yes.

Leo Laporte It’s just – look, folks, if you haven’t yet tried Audible, do, I don’t have to say it anymore, do I?

Baratunde Thurston Some one read you a story. It’s great.

Leo Laporte Yes, what, you know, it’s like your mummy.

Brian Brushwood It’s an amazing world we live in, where we want servants that read our stories for us.

Baratunde Thurston That’s how I think about it. I don’t know how you guys use it.

Leo Laporte You know sometimes there are people who are talking about the end of newspapers, say, that well, newspapers are not going to go away but what will happen is only the very rich will have them, your butler will iron it for you in the morning and bring it upstairs to you perfectly pressed and I think that’s probably true. There will be some people who have paper books but not many.

Baratunde Thurston Yes.

Leo Laporte Not many. That’s one of the other things that I think is going to be an interesting thing to watch is what happens to Kindle. I just got, Barnes & Noble just sent me the Nook for review, I didn’t ask them, they just – it showed up on, it’s pretty nice.

Baratunde Thurston Yes.

Leo Laporte And I have to say I had been – I had put aside my Kindle, was using the iPad, it’s a little weird to read a glowing screen versus a reflective screen, you have to turn it down at night because it’s so bright…

Brian Brushwood You are talking about the iPad, you have to turn it down.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Brian Brushwood Yes. Were you sad that they sent it to you after you had touched and held an iPad? Did that [indiscernible] experience (01:17:25)?

Leo Laporte No, I was actually glad to. I think one of the reasons they did is I think they are going to start selling them at retail. So one of the issues is – with these ebook readers is, and except for the Sony, but the Kindle and Barnes & Noble, I guess you can get them at Barnes & Noble, couldn’t you…

Brian Brushwood Well, I know that I always…

Leo Laporte …if you go to the bookstore?

Veronica Belmont Yes.

Brian Brushwood …[indiscernible] (01:17:42) touch and hold them but…

Leo Laporte Okay. So you could.

Brian Brushwood …but I don’t know if you could, actually, I don’t know.

Leo Laporte I guess you can because I think you do need to touch them and look at. And they are really light. That is one of the advantages of them.

Brian Brushwood Yes.

Leo Laporte They are – you are not going to read an iPad on the beach, it’s illegible in the bright sunlight.

Baratunde Thurston But then the Kindle is illegible in the dark bedroom.

Leo Laporte Well, exactly.

Baratunde Thurston So you have….

Leo Laporte So where do you read…

Baratunde Thurston You are a Morlock or…

Leo Laporte Right.

Baratunde Thurston Are you a human being?

Leo Laporte I am a Morlock.

Brian Brushwood Can I ask a quick question because it’s like the whole appeal of the Kindle is of course that you get the book reading experience and I love it, I wish I had time to sit in a hammock and read old school style…

Leo Laporte Right, and who does that?

Brian Brushwood But I would day easily 80% of my text consumption is now audio based when it comes to audio books, I mean…

Leo Laporte Right. Because who has time?

Veronica Belmont Interesting.

Leo Laporte Well, you fly a lot.

Brian Brushwood Yes.

Leo Laporte So that’s one reason. You know my eyes are tired. I think I just I want to listen.

Leo Laporte For you it’s a laziness thing.

Leo Laporte I’m lazy.

Veronica Belmont [Indiscernible] (01:18:30) the audiobooks if I’m commuting. If I’m on the train or if I’m or sometimes on an airplane, but it usually puts me to sleep right away, like the soothing talking like in an airplane.

Leo Laporte It does, it’s very pleasant. So what’s wrong? Nothing wrong with sleep there…

Baratunde Thurston That’s when you [indiscernible] (01:18:44) reading your audiobook.

Leo Laporte Oh baby!

Brian Brushwood So can I say something? I was really surprised to see on the show notes for today is the air marshal article…

Leo Laporte I couldn’t resist putting that in there, it has nothing to do with tech.

Baratunde Thurston What happened?

Leo Laporte Do you want to tell us a story?

Brian Brushwood Well, yes, somebody had forwarded this over to me, and basically it’s a Congressman John J. Junkins, Jr., I actually don’t even know if he is Republican or Democrat, I assume a Democrat, but he…

Leo Laporte Why do you assume that?

Brian Brushwood Well, because it’s not often that Republicans speak out against any of the…

Leo Laporte Air marshals.

Brian Brushwood Yes, the air marshals.

Leo Laporte So just so you know, we spent 800, over $800 million a year…

Brian Brushwood Per year.

Leo Laporte On the air marshal program.

Brian Brushwood And we average four arrests per year.

Leo Laporte No, there have been a total of…

Brian Brushwood Oh, I’m sorry!

Leo Laporte 4.2 arrests…

Brian Brushwood Since the inception of [indiscernible] (01:19:29)…

Leo Laporte Boy, that can’t be – do you have the story of – that can’t be, maybe I’m getting that wrong.

Brian Brushwood Yes, well, I have it in front of me, he says, first of all, the job of the air marshal, and this is all his words, you know, I just find it fascinating though, the job of the air marshal is to ride on planes back and forth, back and forth, back and forth.

Leo Laporte That’s all they do.

Brian Brushwood That’s all they do, and literally…

Baratunde Thurston With a gun.

Brian Brushwood I guess, well, with a gun…

Baratunde Thurston Okay.

Brian Brushwood I guess, and literally, I guess one of the side effects is apparently they get rowdy like more air marshals have been arrested…

Leo Laporte Far more.

Brian Brushwood Than have arrested people.

Leo Laporte For all kinds of felonies. Far more.

Brian Brushwood Like it does, to the tune of almost a $1billion a year – I’m sorry, no, I’m sorry, $800 million, since the beginning, he said. We are averaging $200 million per arrests, is what he said.

Leo Laporte That’s what it costs.

Baratunde Thurston So what do you get if you arrest an air marshal?

Leo Laporte Shot in the head.

Baratunde Thurston Can you get some of that money back?

Leo Laporte I don’t know.

Baratunde Thurston That’s amazing.

Brian Brushwood It’s a fascinating little speech and it’s like he does not equivocate at all, and…

Leo Laporte Yes.

Brian Brushwood And it’s so rare that you hear somebody take such a powerful stance on something that’s so unpopular to target.

Leo Laporte It’s not tech except we talk about it all the time, because it’s very clear – and people like security experts like Bruce Schneier have said again and again that all of this TSA stuff is security theater; it’s not real security.

Brian Brushwood By the way, somebody in the chatroom pointed out he is a Republican, which I’m shocked.

Leo Laporte That’s what I thought.

Brian Brushwood Wow!

Leo Laporte Yes.

Veronica Belmont That makes me so nervous. I fly too much.

Leo Laporte You don’t want to…

Veronica Belmont I don’t want to think it’s just theater. Even though yes, I like to have that little…

Leo Laporte It is theater.

Baratunde Thurston Just say you’re an air marshal and you can do whatever you want.

Leo Laporte Look what happened with this most recent thing that went all crazy on twitter, the Qatari diplomat.

Brian Brushwood The smoking – smoker.

Leo Laporte He went into the bathroom and smoked. And then the stewardess said you can’t do that. And he said, oh, I was lighting my shoe on fire. Oh, you don’t say that.

Brian Brushwood What!

Veronica Belmont What?

Leo Laporte You don’t say that, so of course.

Brian Brushwood He said that like as a joke?

Leo Laporte Yes.

Brian Brushwood Oh, my God!

Leo Laporte The plane is diverted. And all the network news shows do live. ‘We have an incident in the air.’

Brian Brushwood We have a bad joke in the air. Somebody has made a foolish decision.

Leo Laporte Millions of dollars. Millions of dollars later, you know we find that oh, he is just a – and I think he is going to get expelled. But that’s it, he’s not going to get a…

Baratunde Thurston Yes, not going to get any jail time.

Leo Laporte No.

Baratunde Thurston They should make him an air marshal.

Leo Laporte In fact, the U.S. government said we don’t really want to make an international incident out of this.

Baratunde Thurston They should make him an air marshal.

Leo Laporte With a sense of humor like that, you ought to be an air marshal, dude.

Brian Brushwood I love the Doppler Effect on that joke; it was like thirty years later…

Brian Brushwood Look you’re trying to coordinate everything, it’s like, you only got 10% of your brain actually listening…

Leo Laporte Yes, and I’m like that anyway, that’s how I am.

Veronica Belmont I was going to say of all the security things that’s driving me crazy, it’s that they can’t decide what they want to do about the Kindle. They can’t decide it’s a little laptop or…

Leo Laporte Really, leave it on, turn it off.

Veronica Belmont Something okay to leave in your bag. So I just take it out all the time and put it in the tray with the laptop.

Brian Brushwood Does anybody – when you’re flying – this is a point of etiquette. Like, I want to comply with the rules, right? But…

Leo Laporte Oh yes, sure…

Brian Brushwood But you got an iPhone…

Leo Laporte You are a real rule keeper kind of guy.

Brian Brushwood I got conformist written all over me.

Leo Laporte Oh yes.

Brian Brushwood But it’s like, for take-off and landing they say make sure your devices are turned off…

Baratunde Thurston Right.

Brian Brushwood It’s like put it in airplane mode and click the button, is that good enough?

Leo Laporte You can’t turn a Kindle off.

Brian Brushwood Well, oh, really?

Leo Laporte You could shut it down.

Veronica Belmont Well, you know you can just turn it off all the way.

Leo Laporte You can shut it down.

Brian Brushwood Nothing like with the iPhone though, it’s like you turn it off, you got to wait three minutes for it to boot up afterwards.

Leo Laporte Kindle is worse.

Baratunde Thurston You know, I do airplane mode.

Brian Brushwood Yes, that’s off to me.

Veronica Belmont I do airplane mode too.

Brian Brushwood Yes, I’m off the net.

Leo Laporte That’s off.

Brian Brushwood There is no screen on, so

Baratunde Thurston Yes, so that’s off.

Leo Laporte It’s off, you know, we often get – we have many – in fact, I can tell you right now, there are airline captains listening to this. Steam is coming out of their ear, but…

Veronica Belmont But MythBusters busted it, didn’t they?

Leo Laporte Yes, that’s – I don’t know. Is that scientific?

Veronica Belmont It’s good enough for me.

Leo Laporte I love Adam, but come on. Is that proof? You’re a magician.

Veronica Belmont Yeah, it was Buzz Out Loud talking about that like four years ago.

Brian Brushwood You can also say when it comes to security, perception is everything. You know. When it comes to…

Leo Laporte It’s exactly right.

Brian Brushwood …the airline pilots believe that it’s interfering with their device, then you better believe you’re going to act like it’s interfering with device.

Baratunde Thurston Here is the first legitimate excuse I’ve heard for the turn things off during take-off and landing…

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Baratunde Thurston …which had nothing to do with interference, that was little fear of like hundreds of people with devices, maybe something unpredictable could happen.

Leo Laporte Right.

Baratunde Thurston It was more about mental attention, which is...

Leo Laporte I think that’s a lot of it.

Baratunde Thurston …those are the times in the flight where you are most likely to have some kind of emergency announcement going on, and they just want you to hear them. And I know – if I have my iPod on, like I’ve been on the subway in New York. And I’ve missed announcements about the trains switching from local to express or where it’s stopping right here…

Veronica Belmont Oh, me too.

Leo Laporte Oh, I’ve walked into busy intersections because of that.

Baratunde Thurston Right. So on a flight though, that could be really important. So I actually appreciate – I wish they were just honest about it. The idea that you’re going to take these super busy, hyper local, self-involved people with their devices, and just make them be a part of the [indiscernible] (84:02)…

Leo Laporte Pay attention.

Baratunde Thurston …for five minutes.

Leo Laporte Pay attention.

Baratunde Thurston You can do this for five minutes people, and then go back to your lives.

Leo Laporte No, I can’t.

Baratunde Thurston Come-on Leo.

Leo Laporte No, I can’t do it.

Baratunde Thurston Yes, you can.

Leo Laporte So we were talking about how the real world has come to Twitter. I just love watching the Twattle.

Baratunde Thurston I’m going to regret that.

Brian Brushwood It’s a good name, because it sounds like mindless prattle, you know.

Leo Laporte Aimee Mann who won an Oscar or nominated for an Oscar for her music for some movie.

Brian Brushwood Magnolia, right?

Leo Laporte Magnolia. Love that song. She tweets April 8, Christ, there’s no reason in the world anyone should ever have cast Ice-T in a television show.

Veronica Belmont Which makes me sad, I really liked him in Law and Order.

Baratunde Thurston I heard it he was good, I don’t watch the show but I’ve heard good things.

Leo Laporte Okay. So…

Veronica Belmont I think he’s is great on that.

Leo Laporte Okay, so Ice-T is not…

Veronica Belmont I think he is great.

Leo Laporte What is Ice-T know for?

Veronica Belmont I think he’s a great actor on that show.

Brian Brushwood The Body Count song Cop Killer.

Leo Laporte Cop Killer. Okay.

Brian Brushwood And thousands of others.

Veronica Belmont Which makes it even more funny.

Leo Laporte So probably you really wouldn’t want to insult somebody named Cop Killer. So Ice-T responds with a Twattle, it’s Twitter battle time. He says, hey Aimee Mann, stop worrying about my acting bitch, and worry about your wack ass music. In the mean time, eat a hot bowl of…

Brian Brushwood What’s funny is, I saw the tweet and I was like, ‘which of these words is Leo going to say, and which will he not say?

Veronica Belmont ‘Hot bowl of Nintendo Wiis.’

Leo Laporte Nintendo Wiis!

Brian Brushwood Veronica, I think that’s the show title.

Baratunde Thurston I like what I said, but that was…

Leo Laporte So unfortunately for this Twitter battle, it kind of ended before it began, because then Aimee Mann says, ‘oh no! someone just told me that Ice-T responded to my tweet about him, that can’t be good!’

Baratunde Thurston And by someone she means the infrastructure of Twitter itself?

Leo Laporte Yeah. Someone, the at reply. She says, I’m not going to read it…

Veronica Belmont She didn’t use the @ reply to reference Ice-T, though, so.

Leo Laporte She doesn’t understand what's going on. Well his handle is – what is his handle, FINALLEVEL?

Veronica Belmont I don’t know what that yet. That’s weird.

Baratunde Thurston Sounds ominous.

Leo Laporte Anyway. She says ‘I’m not going to read it, I DON’T WANT HIM MAD AT ME,’ in capital letters. And then says, plus, ‘I do not like to hurt people’s feelings. I forget Twitter is not just me and four other dorky friends ragging on TV stars.’ So Ice-T makes it out. ‘He’s out there doing his job, he doesn’t need hackling for the peanut gallery.’ I kind of thought this was classy.

Brian Brushwood Yeah, you know what, for the record? Exactly how I will respond to any conflict, ever, is Aimee Mann’s response. I will completely roll over.

Veronica Belmont Yeah, talk about over-apologizing coming from Brian over here.


Veronica Belmont We got a little over-apologizing incident a couple weeks ago.

Leo Laporte Oh, did you? Oh, tell me about that. What happened?

Baratunde Thurston I missed it. What happened?

Brian Brushwood Oh no, I didn’t want it to come up.

Leo Laporte What happened?

Veronica Belmont I’m making him relive this, it’s hilarious.

Brian Brushwood We – South by Southwest was amazing time, and we went to the GDGT party. And we noticed that any Tweets that say GDGT will show up on this big monitor. And it was like, hey, it’ll be kind of funny, put some – and I was very…

Leo Laporte Are you hacking Twitter again?

Brian Brushwood …I was very clear, it said, ‘hey guys, if you can keep it totally clean, it would be kind of fun to put some messages up here.’

Leo Laporte Oh dear.

Brian Brushwood And then for the like 90% of it, they were funny and clean. And then one…

Leo Laporte And somebody said eat a bowl of Wiis.

Brian Brushwood …one was not good.

Leo Laporte Oh dear.

Brian Brushwood And that’s exactly – and I’m like, oh that needs to go away. And then over my shoulder I hear Veronica say, “What is going on?”

Leo Laporte Oh dear.

Veronica Belmont And I turned – I go 100% Aimee Mann, I immediately roll over and crumble in apology…

Leo Laporte Roll over, legs in the air, I’m so sorry…

Veronica Belmont And then he continued to grovel on the show like the next week. And I was like, I don’t really care, I was just teasing you. I went up to him and like, I was like “what did you do? What did you just do?”

Brian Brushwood Well, I didn’t like wait and brood until you had a highly visible moment to call me out on it in front of everyone. Oh, wait, that’s exactly what you’re doing.

Leo Laporte Oh, damn.

Baratunde Thurston So how does this – how did the Twattle end? You’ve kind of got me hanging.

Leo Laporte ‘So he’s out there doing his job, he doesn’t need any hackling.’ So Final Level – that’s his last album, I guess. Ice-T says, ‘okay, homegirl apologized, say no more, FLTG.’ What’s that mean?

Brian Brushwood That’s got to be Final Level something Group.

Leo Laporte ‘Ceasefire. Once again there’s peace in Twitterland. Ice-T.’

Baratunde Thurston That’s beautiful.

Leo Laporte That’s sweet. They are all…

Brian Brushwood It’s a Twitter fairytale.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah, it’s like a first grade fight, and then you shake hands, like you’re forced to shake hands at the end.

Brian Brushwood It’s what we need to do on the internet, every time there’s a fight, we need to walk down a line of each other saying ‘good game, good game, good game…’

Baratunde Thurston Besides that being kind of adorable and heavily awkward, I think there is a lesson in it, which is how public this is.

Leo Laporte Boy, people don’t realize.

Baratunde Thurston And people don’t quite understand what they’re participating in…

Leo Laporte Yeah, but that’s the charm of it…

Baratunde Thurston …that it’s searchable, that it’s re-Tweetable, that is screen grabbable…

Leo Laporte Well Ice-T – they – Aimee Mann immediately deleted it, right?

Baratunde Thurston But it doesn’t matter, because we’re talking about it.

Leo Laporte Right, it’s there.

Baratunde Thurston So she didn’t delete it. You can’t go back in time and undo it. [indiscernible] (88:40) truly delete anything online now.

Leo Laporte It’s kind of a sweet story, though, you’re right.

Brian Brushwood FLTG is Final Level Twitter Gang. That’s his posse online.

Leo Laporte So like I have the Twit audience, he has…

[Multiple Speakers] (88:58)

Leo Laporte So what do you have – what do you call – what do you call your fans, Veronica?

Veronica Belmont Oh, I don’t know.

Leo Laporte Do you have an acronym for them?

Veronica Belmont No. We should get one.

Leo Laporte We got to work on that.

Baratunde Thurston Dane said, ‘the Veronicats.’

Leo Laporte The Veronicats.

Veronica Belmont Ooh, I like that. It’s relevant on so many different levels.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Well, Dane’s good at that. He’s a wordsmith, as is Baratunde. What do you call your fans, Baratunde?

Baratunde Thurston People.


Brian Brushwood Gentlemen.

Baratunde Thurston Human beings.

Leo Laporte Humans.

Baratunde Thurston Citizens.

Leo Laporte Whisky Swillers. Baratunde’s Whisky Swillers.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah, they’re part of various hashtag armies that are built and destroyed as the crow flies.

Leo Laporte Do you have a name, Brian, for the…?

Brian Brushwood No, we haven’t decided what the NSFW folk are going to be called. But I’m pulling hard for like the ‘Brain Dead Monkey Patrol’ or something. I don’t know.

[Indiscernible] [Beep] (89:46).

Veronica Belmont Whoa!

Baratunde Thurston Whoa!

Brian Brushwood Whoa!

Baratunde Thurston Wow! Hey, America! And other countries listening.

Leo Laporte There’s an example of…

Brian Brushwood It’s the Danger Dave golden tapes all over again.

Leo Laporte Never letting – never letting him live it down.

Baratunde Thurston Actually, I did create a term for my army, called Franscrollowers.

Leo Laporte I saw that.

Baratunde Thurston Franscrollowers.

Leo Laporte I love that. Tell us about that.

Baratunde Thurston And it’s friend, fan, subscribe and follow, all merged into a new internet word to franscrollow. I made a verb and you’re welcome.

Leo Laporte I love that, franscrollow.

Baratunde Thurston Franscrollow.

Leo Laporte What is franscrollow?

Veronica Belmont [Indiscernible] (01:30:27). Am I saying it right?

Baratunde Thurston Say it?

Veronica Belmont Franscrollow.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah, franscrollow, it’s great.

Leo Laporte What is the story with this picture, is that a bomb?

Baratunde Thurston What are you talking about?

Brian Brushwood That’s a big bottle.

Baratunde Thurston It’s my laptop.

Veronica Belmont Looks like a laptop to me.

Brian Brushwood No, next to the laptop.

Baratunde Thurston This just in: Leo Laporte doesn’t recognize a mobile computing device…

Leo Laporte No, next to the laptop.

Veronica Belmont It’s a big wine bottle.

Baratunde Thurston It’s an empty wine bottle.

Leo Laporte That’s a big wine bottle, okay.

Baratunde Thurston No, actually that was – that picture was taken by Michael Galpert,, really cool photo service. We were out and someone said…

Leo Laporte Oh, I love Aviary, yeah.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah, it’s really cool service, cool people behind it. And a domain name was tossed into the air and we were competing to buy it the fastest. And I tried to get it to my iPhone and it was too slow, so I broke out the big – big guns, EVDO cards…

Leo Laporte The laptop, and that’s just going on there?

Baratunde Thurston So that’s me very seriously purchasing a domain name that I’ve never used.

Leo Laporte I love that.

Veronica Belmont I’ve got all my domain stuff bookmarked on my iPhone, so if I think of something on the go, I can just go grab it by the way.

Leo Laporte Oh, that’s smart. What do you use? Just out of curiosity.

Veronica Belmont I use GoDaddy, because we get discounts on Revision3 and Tekzilla. [Indiscernible] (91:40) – I don’t – it’s not like my favorite, but I like to support my company.

Unknown Speaker I had a – speaking of the publicity of Twitter, I said something horrible GoDaddy on Twitter.

Leo Laporte I say something about horrible about them in public all the time.

Baratunde Thurston And, well here’s the thing: companies will contact you. And like, so I said really, really horrible thing, I was – I don’t like their Superbowl commercials, I don’t like their interface, I don’t like their attitude…

Leo Laporte That’s what I don’t like. It’s horrible, it’s tedious.

Baratunde Thurston …so I’m trying to leave…

Brian Brushwood Now hold on, this is unfair. GoDaddy provides domains for only $7.49 when you use the code [indiscernible] (92:09) check out. And I will not sit here and listen to you impugn your…


Baratunde Thurston And I’m not trying to undermine your sponsors or your family. However [indiscernible] (92:17). With all due respect, what happened is the company Tweeted back at me, no, I’m so sorry to hear about your experience, how can we help you? And it was awkward, because I didn’t want that. Like I just – sometimes you want to yell out loud.

Leo Laporte Yeah, yeah. I hate it when they try to make peace. I hate that.

Baratunde Thurston To be customer served.

Leo Laporte I hate when they serve you.

[Laughter] [Multiple Speakers] (92:42)

Leo Laporte I hate it when you’re trying to hate a company, and they’re nice to you.

Baratunde Thurston No, sometimes you just want to hate.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Baratunde Thurston And let that be the end of it. So I’ve found myself in an awkward position, I had to acknowledge them.

Leo Laporte I just hate it when that happens.

Veronica Belmont You don’t have to.

Brian Brushwood This is like the story book endings, sometimes I just want to hate.

Veronica Belmont I’ve done that before. I said something bad about someone – usually Monster Cable I say bad things about.

Leo Laporte Yeah, it’s easy to say bad things about that. Every geek – everyone says something bad about them.

Leo Laporte They are the ones that sue anybody named Monster, like…

Brian Brushwood Really?

Leo Laporte Oh, yeah. There was a…

Brian Brushwood Did they try…

Leo Laporte I don’t know. That’s an interesting question. I guess they were too big. But they go after the mom and pop and stuff.

Brian Brushwood Wow!

Leo Laporte They went after a put put golf place called Monster Mini Golf…

Brian Brushwood Going after Sesame Street with monsters running around.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Baratunde Thurston Whenever their name comes up, it’s always from geeks who were telling me that they shouldn’t exist. Because they sell themselves as a premium cable...

Leo Laporte Right.

Baratunde Thurston …and people say, go to this site, this is as good as Monster without – it costs ten times less.

Leo Laporte We – everybody knows

Baratunde Thurston Yeah, that’s what everybody sends me.

Leo Laporte That’s it. Yup, that’s all there is to it.

Veronica Belmont Monoprice rules.

Leo Laporte Monoprice rules.

Baratunde Thurston All right, that was geeky.

Leo Laporte By the way, I just would like to report that on Monday, January 5, 2009, Monster Cable and Monster Mini Golf met to discuss and resolved the trademark infringement situation. They’ve reached amicable agreement.

Baratunde Thurston What about Monsters, Inc., the movie?

Leo Laporte Oh, that’s good question.

Veronica Belmont What about Monster energy drink?

Brian Brushwood They’re next on the list. What about actual monsters under my bed? What are they going to do about the monsters under my bed?

Veronica Belmont [Indiscernible] (94:11) at the same time, that was awesome. What about monsters? [Indiscernible] (94:18).

Brian Brushwood There was actually recently a claim like – and I wish I knew all the details of it – but basically, the claims Monster was making about the quality of its audio components were so outrageous that they actually applied for James Randi Educational Foundation’s Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge for basically as million dollar challenge, for anyone who can prove something supernatural. Like that’s how good they were claiming their cables were.

Leo Laporte I think – what, didn’t – didn’t Randi himself say something like, he offered – no, James – no, I think you got it wrong – he offered a million dollars, right?

Brian Brushwood If they can prove that their were substantially better.

Leo Laporte Because they have $7,000 speaker cables.

Brian Brushwood Right.

Leo Laporte Literally.

Brian Brushwood Which is a bit of a departure for the [indiscernible] (95:00), but I mean I guess it would be supernatural if it was $7,000 better.

Leo Laporte He’s great, I love him. All right, I think we’ve run out of topics, if we’re talking amazing Randi and speaker cable.


Baratunde Thurston We’re just getting to the good stuff.

Veronica Belmont [indiscernible] (95:15) Mono Price for like $3.49 for shipping.

Leo Laporte Aren’t they amazing?

Veronica Belmont 6-foot long iPhone cable.

Leo Laporte And it’s good, right? It works, right?

Veronica Belmont Awesome.

Leo Laporte Yeah. They are not an advertiser, nobody gets any GoDaddy coupon code from them. But we may as well give them applaud, because they really do a great job. I wonder who these guys are, because they are beloved by geeks everywhere.

Baratunde Thurston

The Mono Price people?

Veronica Belmont Get them on the show.

Leo Laporte If they obtain to South by Southwest people would – they would buy [indiscernible] (95:41).

Brian Brushwood It is weird how many like super popular sites don’t ever really commercialize it. Like, I still don’t know who those people are.

Leo Laporte Oh there was a great article On The Times about that.

Veronica Belmont Great.

Brian Brushwood Yeah?

Leo Laporte Have you seen it?

Brian Brushwood No, no, no, no.

Veronica Belmont It was awesome for when your mom sends you chain letters and you want to prove that they’re not real, you just send her the Snopes link. Just make sure you don’t send it to everyone that she sent it to, because she feels really bad after that.

Leo Laporte You’re kind of embarrassing publicly like [indiscernible] (96:02).

Brian Brushwood You have to learn how to delicately, it’s like a Twattle on that case.

Leo Laporte It’s so funny that you mentioned that. Because this week Brian Stelter in The New York Times wrote an article about Barbara and David Mikkelson, the couple that run Snopes.

Brian Brushwood Diligently.

Baratunde Thurston Diligently? Wow.

Leo Laporte Says for well over a decade, they’ve acted as arbiters in the age of misinformation by answering the central question posed by every chain letter: is this true? Seven to eight million uniques a month.

Brian Brushwood Wow.

Leo Laporte After 14 years they say, people are pretty cavalier about the facts. So they now – they did quit their jobs and they do this full-time for a living.

Brian Brushwood How recently – I mean I remember seeing them like a decade ago.

Leo Laporte They started in 1996 as an online – they were folklorists.

Brian Brushwood Wow.

Leo Laporte Of myths and urban legends, actually they were kind of fake folklores.

Brian Brushwood They were enthusiasts.

Baratunde Thurston They were a hoax themselves?


Leo Laporte He created and put it up letterhead to the San Fernando Valley Folklore Society, which didn’t exist.

Brian Brushwood Right.

Leo Laporte And he would do research about folklore, he was interested in the origins of tall tales and stuff. Like the guy with the killer with the prosthetic hook that’s –

Brian Brushwood Yes.

Leo Laporte Or the guy in the bathtub with the ice and the kidney.

Brian Brushwood And I don’t know – and I’m kind of sad for young kids who grew up in a world where the –

Leo Laporte [indiscernible] (1:37:21).

Brian Brushwood Yeah, for us it’s like growing up is like, well of course your teeth will immediately rot out of your head if you drink Coca-Cola. But it’s like the first time I discovered this site, and it was in 1996, back when I was in college, it was six hours of this dissent into ‘no way. That’s not true. No way.’

Baratunde Thurston It’s like being told Santa’s not real, there’s no Tooth Fairy, like all at one time.

Veronica Belmont It’s like – you know how everyone has iPhones with them all the time or some kind of Internet capable device at any time. And we all know these really fun moments where you’re trying to like, remember something or [indiscernible] (97:53) someone and going back and forth.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Yeah. Actually Brian’s made a living on [indiscernible] (97:57). We love Snopes. So the Mikkelsons, thank you for doing such a good job.

Brian Brushwood And I got warned in the chatroom, spoiler alert, about Santa not being real. I’m sorry to all the children of the world.

Leo Laporte Oh shoot. No he’s real.

Brian Brushwood Let’s just claim [indiscernible] (98:13).

Veronica Belmont Just because he stopped bringing you presents doesn’t mean he’s not real.

Baratunde Thurston Oh!

Leo Laporte That’s what Jennifer says. When somebody asks [indiscernible] (98:22) when Jennifer, my wife, when somebody asks her about Santa Claus she says, well there are some people who don’t believe, I happen to. And I think that’s all that need to be said. I happen to believe.

Brian Brushwood Six-year-old cornered me.

Leo Laporte Really, six?

Brian Brushwood She add, yeah, what she –

Leo Laporte My kids were teenagers before they really –

Brian Brushwood And I tried so hard to dance around it. She was just like daddy, daddy, is Santa Claus real? I was like, well, you know, it’s – the magic of Christmas is real, we all enjoy –

Leo Laporte Oh you loser.

Brian Brushwood And then she goes, ‘daddy, do you believe Santa Claus is real,’ and I was like ‘me? And then she goes, it’s okay dad, neither do I.

Leo Laporte And then she comforted you and give you a hug.

Brian Brushwood But what’s funny is, complete reversal two days before Christmas.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah. Now she believes now, yeah.

Veronica Belmont I figured it out because Santa and my mommy used the same wrapping paper.

Leo Laporte Yeah, that’s – I use to write – spidery script, I use to write letters from Santa to the kids and leave it with a big cookie and the half eaten carrot.

Baratunde Thurston We have on the Tooth Fairy side of this, just thinking about this Onion photo we did at the Tooth Fairy claims extra teeth, and it shows like a bloody pillow with like, lots of single dollar bills.

Leo Laporte That’s bad.

Brian Brushwood It sounds like I don’t know like a hooker crime.

Baratunde Thurston People react very interestingly. But I was really excited, speaking of Snopes and hoaxes and everything, to see the – some of the reviews of our iPhone app, for people who still don’t get it. And they’re legitimately upset that the news that we’re reporting, they can’t find verification of it anywhere else. And it makes them sad, but it also is very effective for our traffic.

Leo Laporte I love The Onion. You’ll find Baratunde at, and he is the web editor for The Onion. Also a stand-up comic, does WhiskeyFriday...

Baratunde Thurston WhiskeyFriday, the hashtag, I’m at The Punch Line in San Francisco tonight 8 o’clock.

Leo Laporte So if you’re listening live.

Baratunde Thurston Yes, so come on down, the sun looks like it might be trying to come out up here.

Brian Brushwood Just in time for tonight.

Baratunde Thurston Get The Onion’s iPhone app, search for the onion in the App Store that we’re just talking about.

Leo Laporte Awesome. So great to have you in studio.

Baratunde Thurston It’s wonderful to be back. Thank you so much. Yeah.

Leo Laporte Thank you coming in. And same to you Mr. Brian Brushwood of

Brian Brushwood Indeed. We’re doing NSFW tonight since I’m here.

Leo Laporte Stick around.

Brian Brushwood Yeah, from the cottage.

Leo Laporte So you are competing a little bit with The Punch Line. I don’t know.

Brian Brushwood [Indiscernible] (100:52).

Baratunde Thurston Already booked the gig.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Brian Brushwood [indiscernible] (100:55).

Baratunde Thurston It’s like eight to 10.

Brian Brushwood No, you can’t make that. There’s no way.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah.

Leo Laporte Yeah. But stay tuned, because after East Meets West, which is coming up about 10 minutes, we’ll have NSFW live in studio.

Brian Brushwood Absolutely.

Leo Laporte That’s going to be a lot of fun. is the website, don’t forget Scam School and Revision3. And Brian performs at colleges all over the country.

Brian Brushwood If you ever got lazy on my bookings, so if anyone wants me to come to their hometown, just talk to your student activities group at colleges.

Leo Laporte And have them go to

Brian Brushwood Yeah, have them – tell them about the show and say they should bring me in.

Leo Laporte It’s a great show. It’s just worth it to see his wife stand on him in heels on a bed of nails.

Baratunde Thurston I will see that.

Leo Laporte Well I saw it at South by Southwest, it was a quite a heck of a time. You guys like to share your love with the words.

Veronica Belmont She is a lovely woman by the way.

Leo Laporte She really –

Veronica Belmont I’ve gone to meet her at South by –

Leo Laporte Yeah I was so glad to meet somebody who can actually tolerate this guy.

Brian Brushwood By the way, while you were talking Ohdoctah last – couple weeks ago, Bonnie like for the three seconds that she walks in the room, while I am watching TWiT Live, she walks in and then you and Ohdoctah start talking about her. And she’s like, what?

Leo Laporte Well that’s all we do all the time, we talk about her actually. She’s – it’s not that unusual. Ohdoctah. Veronica Belmont is – works for Qore, which you can get on your Sony Playstation 3, Qore, subscribe, you must subscribe. And of course you can watch here on Tekzilla with my buddy, Mr. Patrick Norton, the regular Tekzilla daily updates and Tekzilla every week at

Veronica Belmont Thank you for having me.

Leo Laporte Anything else you like – The Sword and Laser.

Veronica Belmont The Sword and Laser with Tom Merritt who you may also know from East Meets East. I can’t say – I can’t say –

Brian Brushwood Nobody can say it. It’s actually West.

Veronica Belmont East Meets West, and also at CNET, so.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Veronica Belmont It’s great. It’s our sci-fi, fantasy, book club and podcast. And we’ve been a little slow on the updates lately. But we’re going to try to move it to a more frequent schedule soon.

Leo Laporte I just love it. And do go back if you get a chance and listen to Daniel Suarez’s interview.

Veronica Belmont Yeah, we’ve got a lot of great interviews on there.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Veronica Belmont Actually.

Leo Laporte That’s really fantastic. Thanks, Veronica, for being here. I really appreciate it.

Veronica Belmont Thank you.

Leo Laporte Thank you all for joining us. TWiT is now available on video on demand in iTunes. You can also watch it on YouTube, If you have a Roku box, somebody complained to me that it’s not going up fast but we get it up on the same day, don’t we? Yeah. You get up on Monday mornings on Roku box so you can watch it after the fact and we’re working on streaming on the Roku box and all those devices. You can now stream it live on the iPad thanks to [ph] Hutiny7 (103:25) who wrote that great TWiT Pad application, you must have if you have an iPad. Of course we have it also on the iPhone. Lots of ways to watch the show, both live and after the fact.

If you want to tune in live at, we do the show every Sunday 3 p.m. Pacific Time, 6 p.m. Eastern, 2200 UTC,

Thanks for joining us, we’ll see you next week. Another TWiT is in the can.

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