Recorded: April 25, 2010
Published: April 26, 2010
TWiT 245 •Previous episode – Next episode
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This is TWIT. This WEEK in TECH, episode 245 for April 26, 2010: No Hitler For You.
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It’s time for TWIT, this WEEK in TECH, the show that covers all the tech news from the week, and boy, this has been a week. Not for really good tech news, but certainly for fascinating tech news. And we’ve got a great panel here to talk about it, starting off with – from CBS, she is a blogger for the CBS Digital. What is your title, Shira? The Digital…?
Shira Lazar They say Digital Correspondent. I blog and videoblog on cbsnews.com, I have a blog called On The Scene, where I track social trends in pop culture.
Leo Laporte And she’s joining us from Los Angeles?
Shira Lazar Yes, Hollywood.
Leo Laporte Great to see you.
Shira Lazar Hello, represent.
Leo Laporte So representing CBS. Now representing ABC from Good Morning America, Ms. Becky Worley. Hello, Becky.
Becky Worley Hello, Leo.
Leo Laporte Original producer for the Screen Savers and Call For Help, I should add. And…
Becky Worley It does date me.
Leo Laporte And lately you’ve been covering kind of – not only tech, but like consumer crap?
Becky Worley ShamWow, baby.
Leo Laporte ShamWow. She’s the ShamWow queen. In studio with me today, I’m very happy to welcome Ms. Natali Del Conte, also from CBS via CNET. Hi Natali.
Natali Del Conte Hello.
Leo Laporte Great to have you. Yeah. And your mom’s here.
Natali Del Conte I also brought my sidekick, my mother.
Leo Laporte Yeah, hi mom.
Natali Del Conte Yes, she’ll behave herself over there. She’s got a glass of wine. She’ll sit quietly.
Leo Laporte Is it okay for me to say that you will be a mom soon yourself?
Natali Del Conte Yes, that’s okay. We can talk about that if you want, not very much.
Leo Laporte Not much to say.
Natali Del Conte There is no much to say, no. I just – I’ve got a baby loading.
Leo Laporte And you do…
Natali Del Conte In either late July or early August, depending. I’m hoping for early July, just because this is not very comfortable.
Leo Laporte It’s hot.
Natali Del Conte Yeah, it’s hot.
Becky Worley That’s awesome. Summer birthday parties. And you can have them outside.
Leo Laporte When were yours born? When were the twins born?
Becky Worley January.
Leo Laporte: Oh.
Natali Del Conte Oh, you’ve got the winter babies.
Becky Worley But we do the half-birthday. We have a luau for them in the summer and then they don’t get to have a birthday party in January. So I just like…
Leo Laporte That’s what Cammy does. That’s cute, I like it.
Natali Del Conte I haven’t really thought that far in advance, actually. I’ve just sort of thought that I’ll have a nice fall maternity leave. That’s all I really care about.
Becky Worley Nice. I forget that they have birthdays and that they become actual people.
Leo Laporte Yeah, I don’t worry about that.
Natali Del Conte I’m under this illusion that I’ll just have this baby and then go back to my life the way it was as before.
Becky Worley That’s exactly how it works. They’re not big bags of needs for two years or anything like that.
Leo Laporte No, it’s easy. There’s nothing, no – and changing the diaper, the nice thing about that, the learning curve is very, very brief. You’ll pick that up right away. So – but I should say as a father of a teenager about to go a college, you are saving for college now, aren’t you?
Natali Del Conte Well, I asked Jill Schlesinger from marketwatch.com what I should be doing. So I’ve at least asked the right question.
Leo Laporte What did he tell you? Because when I did this research, and I found out I was supposed to be – for the two kids putting a thousand dollars a month away starting at age zero.
Becky Worley What?! I got to leave, you’re scaring me!
Leo Laporte A thousand dollars a month. And well what I did is, I said well screw that, I can't do that. So I’ll just make more money later.
Becky Worley And that – did it work out that way?
Leo Laporte How’s that working?
Becky Worley Because now she’s going to college.
Leo Laporte She’s going to college.
Becky Worley And that worked, I guess?
Leo Laporte I can pay for it.
Becky Worley Okay, well, that’s good.
Leo Laporte I can pay for it.
Natali Del Conte That’s good. Yes, I asked about the New York planned...
Leo Laporte What about preschool?
Natali Del Conte I don’t know.
Leo Laporte Have you signed up for preschool yet?
Natali Del Conte No.
Becky Worley Leo, you’re just scaring her.
Natali Del Conte This is good birth control for Shira.
Shira Lazar Yes, and this is why I will be representative of a single non-child bearing…
Leo Laporte All right, I’m not going to stop, we’re going to stop talking about that, and start talking about the tech news.
Natali Del Conte There is a lot estrogen in this seg of Twit.
Leo Laporte The big story. I’d have to say this very interesting, because you guys beforehand were talking about iPad. Because Natali and Becky had iPad’s pre-release, right? To show on CBS early show, right?
Natali Del Conte Well, Becky had it before I did, because she had a taped package that ran with her piece, I watched very studiously. I only had it Thursday before it came out.
Leo Laporte So how does that work?
Becky Worley We were having negotiations to get these devices in advance from Apple for the networks. And it’s a big deal. And you have to work it out. So we had both of ours on Thursday, and then the hierarchy of which show gets to go first, and that’s all negotiated. So it’s kind of silly madness.
Natali Del Conte It is really silly madness. I had asked them – I had originally planned to have it on Friday, and then they mentioned that we might be able to get it for Thursday’s broadcast. And I said well can you maybe tell me in what hour the other morning shows are going to have it, so that – because otherwise the control room screams that someone else has it, and we didn’t have it, so at least I know and they’re kind of like no, but they bring [indiscernible] (6:08).
Leo Laporte So interesting, they’re watching GMA and they’re going ‘oh my god, GMA’s got it, GMA’s got it, GMA’s got it, quick go out and get it!’
Natali Del Conte Right. Yeah.
Leo Laporte Oh my god.
Natali Del Conte And it’s not really my intention to scoop Becky at it.
Becky Worley You should can just call me, I don’t care.
Natali Del Conte It’s more my intention to not get screamed at from the control room.
Leo Laporte Right, they want to scoop Becky.
Natali Del Conte Well they want to scoop GMA, right, or at least have it in the same – yeah.
Leo Laporte Well this is apropos, because really what happened this week, the big story of the week of course, the stolen/lost iPhone and the big story really is Gizmodo and Engadget trying to scoop one another, isn’t it? Because having that iPhone is not that big a deal, first of all – Okay, accepting that it is from Apple, which apparently is, doesn’t mean it’s the…
Becky Worley It was, hundred percent.
Leo Laporte Yes, it’s a hundred percent, because Apple said it’s ours, we want it back. But there’s no guarantee it’s the next iPhone, it’s a prototype. You held it right, Becky, you actually held it?
Becky Worley Yes, I was the only one who called – I didn’t believe them. so I called the Gizmodo guys and said I want to come down and see it. So I took a crew and I went down to Fremont and found the blogger’s house who had it in his possession. And he wouldn’t let us film it really closely, because they’re holding on to it for exactly the reason you just said.
Leo Laporte Was this Jason Chen, that you –
Becky Worley Yes, Jason, super nice guy. But they wanted to maintain exclusive control of the video, so that they would get the eyeballs at gizmodo.com. But, yes, I held it and it was – if it was not the final version, I will be shocked. Because it just seems too late in the game for this to have as much polish as it did. And so I really think it’s very close to the real deal.
Natali Del Conte That’s funny that you say polished, because when I first saw it, I thought, oh, I don’t know if that looks like very Apple-like…
Leo Laporte It’s got visible screws, has square edges.
Natali Del Conte Right. But maybe that just, it just doesn’t protograph well.
Becky Worley It’s the industrial-ness of it, that I felt that that was intentional design work. It wasn’t like it was kludgy or just a rapid prototype.
Leo Laporte Right. Well, instead of…
Becky Worley It was itself trying to be more angular and industrial.
Leo Laporte Instead of a rocker for instance, for volume it has two buttons. And…
Becky Worley And Apple never comes up with the final thing. They always like make you want more. So even if they’re giving us probably a camera right now and a video camera, better video camera, I feel like there’s always needing more things we want, so that they could come out with more types of iPhones.
Leo Laporte Well more than that, they’re doing the Detroit thing, aren’t they? They’re saying oh, this year we’re going to do industrial. So that the swoopy-doopy design of last year seems outmoded.
Natali Del Conte Right. And if you look at some of the other phones that are coming out like the Evo and the HTC’s Droid, they do look a bit more boxy. They have very sleek lines along the front.
Leo Laporte That’s a new style. How interesting.
Natali Del Conte But the new style is to sort of have boxy edges and a sleek front and not really rounded back at all. That’s…
Becky Worley And the thing about Apple is there’s always a piece of art that makes their pieces, it’s not just like a piece of hardware, it’s actually something that it comes like a life accessory. And that’s makes things special.
Leo Laporte And Johnny Ive is always thinking about well what’s the trend, what’s the new thing. He’s a designer.
Becky Worley That was some of the skepticism early on was that it was too industrial to be a John Ive production. But I think that this is a departure and an intentional move. I’m also wondering, just from holding it in my hand, it felt less likely to slip out of your hand. I know that sounds ridiculous, but with the amount of cracked iPhone screens that we have, that may be a consideration, I don’t know.
Leo Laporte How about the iPad design? Does it echo the iPad design? Is that part of it, maybe? Because the iPad’s got some square edges, too.
Natali Del Conte I didn’t feel that as much when I held it in my hand, because it was such, I just automatically felt the departure from the existing iPhone. So I didn’t feel like it was an iPad complement. I was also just really fixated on the camera on the front. I thought that was so cool.
Leo Laporte No, let’s talk about that. A front facing camera, now that’s real departure for Apple. Nokia’s done that for years, but you can’t call anybody because nobody else has one. So it’s like a feature without a user.
Natali Del Conte Right.
Leo Laporte In fact Tony Wang upstairs has a Nokia phone and I have an N900, he’ll he keep saying put Fring on it so we can call each other, I want to try this. Is Apple – but Apple single-handedly just because with the number of adopters could make front facing phones be ubiquitous.
Natali Del Conte Right, and thinking about the fact that they are saying we don’t really need it for an iPad because you wouldn’t use that for video chat but you use an iPhone for video chat is a little bit …
Leo Laporte I guess you would so.
Shira Lazar Once again they’re doing that because the next version of the iPad will have that front facing phone, hopefully but then that’s why now you’ll get the iPhone front facing phone you’ll have your iPad, it makes it, so there is a separation between the two so you have a reason to have both of them.
Leo Laporte So what’s your guess?
Becky Worley I don’t think that that iterative release of features is just a marketing ploy to get you buy more.
Shira Lazar Yes.
Becky Worley I think it’s because they are desperately trying to hit price points that are appropriate now and that we can't put it all into one device at one time.
Leo Laporte 499 was critical, a critical thing for the iPad. They had to do 499, right?
Natali Del Conte Right, and I think that they’re also sticking to a production cycle of what is going to not only be released but get news. They don’t want us this month to be talking about the iPhone. This month we are supposed to be talking about the 3G iPad.
Leo Laporte They’ve really controlled the news cycle.
Natali Del Conte That’s a few weeks away.
Leo Laporte Yes.
Natali Del Conte And then we were just last week talking about the new Macs and then the 3G iPhone and then iPhone 4.0 was in the interim and then or if the software rather, and then fourth iPhone coming out. So we’re not supposed to be talking about this right now.
Leo Laporte You guys completely reject the thought that had been floating around, I had a number of radio stations call me and say this was an Apple plan, wasn’t it?
Becky Worley I know on first hand knowledge, it was not.
Leo Laporte It couldn’t have been.
Becky Worley No, I know because…
Leo Laporte How do you know?
Becky Worley Because I have comments that I couldn’t put on the air, that Steve Jobs made – personally made phone calls to get it back.
Leo Laporte That’s, no, so okay somebody asked Nick Denton at Gizmodo, did Jobs called you and Nick said if he did I couldn’t say anything about it, which I thought was his way of pretending that he got a call from Steve Jobs.
Shira Lazar Probably. He is like the Mafioso, Steve Jobs.
Becky Worley Or he may have called someone else at Gizmodo.
Leo Laporte Okay, there is a scooplet, okay, wow!
Becky Worley I think that the other thing is that there may have also been the mention of the word police which has happened.
Leo Laporte Yes, there is a task force in Santa Clara Valley which includes police, forensics experts and supposedly although the DA in San Mateo is not commenting but supposedly this task force is investigating. So that’s going to, before we get to that, because I do want to get to this story of stolen versus found and the criminal investigation, but let's just finish our discussion of the hardware because I think that that’s of merit. If it has a front facing camera, it’s not for a phone call, it’s for iChat, right?
Becky Worley Well that’s my question is do you think it will be Skype compatible or this will be the great question of how much Apple is willing to clamp down on apps to promote their own software. Will it only work with iChat?
Natali Del Conte That’s an interesting – I hadn’t even considered that that might be a possibility.
Leo Laporte What do you use it with?
Natali Del Conte We don’t think Fring, or – Fring is available on the iPhone.
Leo Laporte Fring does it.
Natali Del Conte Yes.
Shira Lazar What if you didn’t need an app, if you would just call that says accepts video.
Leo Laporte So if AT&T, oh, this is interesting, AT&T says, yes, we’ll support video calls but you got to be using an iPhone.
Shira Lazar Or you have to pay more to receive and have video calls, what about that?
Leo Laporte Okay. Shira, would you pay for that?
Shira Lazar I would if it was like $3 more a month, how much money, it might be useful…
Leo Laporte Would you like, this is my…
Shira Lazar To have something like that. And to record it, but I don’t know.
Leo Laporte Let's say if it doesn’t costs anything. I remember in 1965, this is how old I am, 1964 going to the World’s Fair in New York City, AT&T, oh, shut up Worley, you little young whippersnapper, I’ll dance on your grave Worley. So when I was a young man in 1964, I went to the World’s Fair and I remember AT&T had, it was just like in 2001, remember that where they made a call on the AT&T picture phone and they said by the year 1970 everybody will have a picture phone and it turned out nobody wanted a picture phone because when you get up and answer the phone, do you really want a camera.
Natali Del Conte Right, we don’t even…
Shira Lazar Well, for conference calls though...
Natali Del Conte Most people don’t even look good in webcams like, you ladies look beautiful of course but I think most of the time I answer the picture phone or any kind of video chat, I’m like, oh God, I look like crap.
Leo Laporte You don’t turn on the auto answer on Skype with the video.
Natali Del Conte Heck no.
Leo Laporte Hell no.
Natali Del Conte No way.
Leo Laporte So…
Becky Worley You know what, but here’s the difference. I answer video calls all the time looking like crap and I immediately turn the computer around and point it towards my kids. I get used to looking like crap in front of people.
Shira Lazar But I wouldn’t do this all the time with my parents on the videophone.
Leo Laporte Oh you think people, now come on Shira.
Shira Lazar No, we are way too vain for that because…
Leo Laporte Wait a minute, Shira, come on, look at…
Shira Lazar The whole motivation for that is…
Leo Laporte Look at Shira Lazar.
Becky Worley I had a professional, you know, makeup artist.
Leo Laporte I think you had somebody come in. Come on.
Shira Lazar I keep them in my pocket.
Leo Laporte I don’t think you get up in the morning and the phone rings and you turn on the camera. I don’t.
Natali Del Conte No way.
Shira Lazar No.
Natali Del Conte This face doesn’t wake up in the morning.
Leo Laporte And I think most – I think most humans – I’ll leave you three out of this, and – but most humans don’t want camera phones.
Becky Worley No, but what about to talk to a boyfriend, you are doing a long-distance relationships, for businesses, if you don’t have your laptop on you…
Leo Laporte Okay.
Becky Worley But you want to see the person, you are having a meeting with it, it totally makes sense.
So – so you are saying Skype has kind of conditioned us to want this now.
Becky Worley Yes.
Natali Del Conte Well, we are the generation that is constantly motivated to share everything about ourselves. So, more or likely than not we do want that kind of thing, and my mom and I were just having a conversation when we were driving over here, when we weren’t screaming at each other over my driving, about how she is going to go to the Apple store and get a new Mac today, now that – and I want to show her how to use video chat because I am having a baby on the other coast.
Leo Laporte Won’t that be fun? Yes.
Natali Del Conte And my kid won’t know her crazy…
Leo Laporte It’s great for grandmas.
Natali Del Conte His or her crazy grandmother.
Leo Laporte No, no that Skype is great. It’s made for grandmas.
Natali Del Conte Yes, it’s made for –
Leo Laporte Yes.
Natali Del Conte That parental relationship.
Leo Laporte Yes.
Natali Del Conte But – but again I stick with the fact that we are all ego-maniacs and we want to share as much as possible.
Shira Lazar And we don’t realize that all the Nokia users have been using this type of stuff in South America and Europe for years.
Leo Laporte Oh they have, okay.
Shira Lazar Yes.
Leo Laporte So it’s not uncommon to see people do video…
Shira Lazar And everything. What?
Leo Laporte Do they – do they use it for phone calls or video chat, well how are they using it?
Shira Lazar Well, the thing is phone calls become video chat.
Leo Laporte Right.
Shira Lazar It’s just like another – an upgrade from your phone call. To talk to someone you say hey. Besides talking, if you are on the mood to talk to them in a bit more of a personal way, can we do video now, that – I just think it’s just an added extension to your phone calls and your relationships. I don’t think we need to over think it and it’s not like people are just using this for reasons like you to create professional podcasts and – and do video interviews. People actually use it to connect to people.
Leo Laporte And clearly Apple doesn’t do anything accidental. If they are putting a front facing camera on they have –
Becky Worley But no way AT&T is going to put this on their...
Leo Laporte You don’t think so?
Becky Worley Cell network. I think this is going to be Wi-Fi only because the way that they are getting hammered already for instability that they are going to put this kind of data load on their network, I don’t buy it.
Natali Del Conte Yes, I am with you.
Leo Laporte I think AT&T is in denial. They are selling AT&T unlimited access on an iPad for $30 a month and the AT&T guys said no, when we say unlimited we didn’t mean five gigabyte unlimited. We mean you could stream movies all day, all night. I think AT&T is in denial about their network. I think that they don’t really – they don’t admit that there is a problem.
Natali Del Conte We don’t read consumer reports apparently.
Leo Laporte Apparently.
Becky Worley Maybe they are just going to blow it out before Verizon swoops in.
Shira Lazar Yes, when is – that's the question. When is Verizon going to come in? Is this with the – the next one, or are we going to see Verizon at all or any other?
Leo Laporte Okay, conspiracy theory. How about this? Front-facing phone is – or no it was a GSM phone, shoot never mind.
Shira Lazar Yes. And I actually asked Jason when he did the autopsy on the new iPhone if he could tell from the innards if it was CDMA and he said he couldn’t tell.
Leo Laporte They said it’s a GSM. Somebody said GSM.
Shira Lazar Yes.
Leo Laporte So, somebody figured that out when they disassembled it.
Shira Lazar Interesting, that wasn’t Jason because he didn’t – he said he couldn’t tell.
Leo Laporte Or maybe it isn’t a GSM. Maybe that was a mist – a typo.
Shira Lazar Hard to know. That – there is – there is definitely a lot of conspiracy theories afoot and I know one of the things they have said about this phone story breaking early is that it may hurt sales of the iPhone today because people are now excited too early for the release later this summer of the new iPhone.
Leo Laporte And that would – that would lend credence to a criminal or a civil prosecution.
Shira Lazar That they have done harm.
Leo Laporte There was commercial harm.
Shira Lazar And in that case Gizmodo may be at fault. But I don’t think from a criminal statute, based on the California laws, because it was a real Catch 22 that Apple had to claim the device in order for Gizmodo to be responsible for saying that it was theirs.
Leo Laporte Let’s talk about that in a second. Is there culpability? And even more than that, the journalistic issue of…
Becky Worley Well, didn’t they pay $10,000 for the story?
Leo Laporte $5,000 – 5,000. So – so hang on. I want to talk about that. Because you are – I have got three journalists on the line here. Natali Del Conte from CBS and CNET, Shira Lazar from CBS and from Good Morning America and ABC, Becky Worley. Where is the NBC correspondent? I should have gotten Clayton Morris and then Fox would at least have…
Shira Lazar They are with Kathie Lee & Hoda. They are on the air like 23 hours a day with those gals.
Becky Worley They are jumping in the hands of Mrs. Kathie.
Leo Laporte You guys. I am glad to know competition is still alive and well in the dying media. You guys just fight over these scraps as you go down in flames; it’s okay with me. Hey, I want to – I do want to talk about Citrix, our great sponsor, and a new product from Citrix, it’s very cool for anybody who has to do training online. It’s called GoToTraining. Now, if you’ve ever taken corporate training online and used some of these awful solutions, this is an opportunity to call your training manager and say there is something better. If you’re a trainer, this is the opportunity to try for free, GoToTraining for 30 days.
Of course it’s got as its backbone the really state of the art, top of the line sharing that is Citrix is famous for with GoToMeeting, GoToMyPc, GoToAssist. But then they’ve added, you know, that gives you screen sharing, you can pass control from presenter to the presenters, you get multiple presenters in different locations, built-in voice over IP. I used to GoToMeeting on the iPad the other day and they could hear me and I could hear them. It was wild, we didn’t have to make a phone call; it was all there in the iPad. Chat built-in. This is for the training staff. Session recording, so you can give the training once, record it, and then make it available for the future. Plus there are special features like quizzes, polls, up to 200 participants live.
You can upload – there is a content library that goes with the training. So you can upload any kind of document or link to any website and make a training curriculum that your trainees can look at ahead of time or after. Completely customizable tests, polling, chat, feedback, I can go on and on. But I think the best way to do this is to try it.
If you head up a training program, test drive it for free at gototraining.com. You don’t need a special coupon or anything. Just go to gototraining.com. If you’ve ever been in a bad training session, send in a note to the trainer and say, hey, GoToTraining. Or if you’re an IT manager, you might want to bring it up at your next meeting, gototraining.com. Give it a try. I think you’ll like it.
Natali Del Conte I have a question about how you sent audio over the iPad when you used GoToTraining.
Leo Laporte Isn’t that cool?
Natali Del Conte How did you do that?
Leo Laporte It was GoToMeeting. And there is a GoToMeeting App. And they were already in the meeting. And I launched the meeting. All of a sudden, I’m hearing them. And there is a mic on the iPad.
Natali Del Conte Okay, you were sending the audio.
Leo Laporte There is a mic on the iPad. And so I said, oh, I can hear you. And they said, and we can hear you. It was like – it was kind of a surprise.
Natali Del Conte And how is that mic. It’s good I guess.
Leo Laporte It’s great. It’s a very good mic. In fact, if you use DragonDictate on the iPad, it does a very good job. You can record. It was interesting that they built a mic in. It’s right next to the mic port – on the iPad it’s right next to the headphone jack. There is a little hole there.
Natali Del Conte I have not noticed that.
Leo Laporte You can speak right into it. Well, you’re using a netbook I notice, not an iPad.
Natali Del Conte This is – I have an iPad though with me.
Leo Laporte You all have an iPad? Shira, you have an iPad?
Shira Lazar I still am waiting for the 3G.
Leo Laporte Me too. Well, no, I am not waiting. I’ve already bought eight.
Natali Del Conte You’ve got a training iPad.
Leo Laporte I got an email from Apple saying you can't buy any more. We are canceling your order.
Natali Del Conte Now you have to go in disguise.
Leo Laporte I have to put a moustache on in order to –
Shira Lazar I’ll buy one for you, Leo. I’ll buy an extra one for you.
Leo Laporte Thank you, Shira. It’s okay. I am covered. I got Lisa, our CEO, to do it. She ordered a few more. But I have totally – a total of eight, some for contest giveaways, but some for family members. My 80 year old father-in-law is going to get one. It’s going to be great for him.
Natali Del Conte Yeah.
Shira Lazar Did you see, there was a video on YouTube of a 90-year old on an iPad? And she just was like sitting –
Becky Worley Yeah, wasn’t that cute?
Shira Lazar Oh my God, it was amazing.
Becky Worley It’s her first computer in her life.
Shira Lazar She just – first computer was an iPad, yeah.
Natali Del Conte I’m actually using the iPad to keep track of knitting patterns, to knit baby blankets. So I’m using it for a really old school kind of way.
Leo Laporte What software do you use?
Natali Del Conte Actually I just use notepad. And then I keep track of the rows that I am in.
Leo Laporte Did you use like xxoxx? Yeah.
Natali Del Conte Yeah, knit purl, all of that kind of stuff. I am probably the only person in the university using the iPad for knitting.
Leo Laporte I bet. You go – now somebody is going to write some knitting software.
Natali Del Conte I wish there was an app for that.
Leo Laporte My mom uses – in fact, my mom had to use – continue to use Windows because she uses a knitting/weaving app that was only in Windows.
Natali Del Conte Really, what is it?
Leo Laporte There isn’t anything good on the Mac.
Natali Del Conte No. Someone get on that please.
Leo Laporte And the iPad would be perfect for that.
Natali Del Conte Yeah, it’s great.
Leo Laporte It would be a perfect platform because you could just touch it and tap it twice to be purl.
Natali Del Conte And say, yes, I did that row, yep.
Becky Worley Wow, the estrogen is just seeping out of this podcast.
Natali Del Conte I know.
Becky Worley I feel hormones.
Leo Laporte Wait a minute, men knit?
Shira Lazar We’ve already lost how many male viewers.=?
Leo Laporte Men knit? What are you talking about?
Becky Worley Oh, yeah, dudes are radical knitters, Leo.
Natali Del Conte Some men do. We’ve gotten some emails on Buzz Out Loud.
Leo Laporte There are men who knit.
Shira Lazar I wonder if this would be the same conversation if Kevin Rose was here.
Leo Laporte I bet Kevin Rose knits. Don’t you think –
Shira Lazar Why don’t you call him and ask him.
Leo Laporte Don’t you think he’s the type? He drinks tea.
Natali Del Conte He is the type that may know how.
Shira Lazar Organic red, organic red.
Becky Worley Yeah, he knits his own beer koozies for his 40s.
Leo Laporte All right, let's talk about 5000 now. Nick Denton who runs Gawker has said, and many times, he makes no bones about it, he does checkbook journalism. Apparently – and correct me if I am wrong, but apparently this phone – and we know the Gizmodo story, but we don’t really know the prominence of this phone. But the guy who had the phone apparently offered it to Engadget. Engadget took a picture but didn’t buy it. Then he went to Gizmodo and Nick Denton said I’ll give you $5,000 for it.
Becky Worley And now he says he actually didn’t make any money off of it because he couldn’t sell any new ads but –
Leo Laporte Oh, yes.
Becky Worley I think the traffic was insane.
Leo Laporte They had in one hour on the day that this broke they had a million uniques in one hour.
Natali Del Conte That’s crazy.
Leo Laporte So tell me he didn’t make money.
Natali Del Conte Nick Denton was –
Becky Worley [Indiscernible] (25:23) the obvious and just say that the journalistic ethics are questionable if not downright sleazy but –
Leo Laporte He says he talked to his lawyer who is not a lawyer but a barrister, a British lawyer, who said, ah, you’re all right. Go ahead and do it. And then now if you look at the California Statutes, it’s very clear – for instance, if I came to you, Natali, and said hey, I got a Rolex. It’s only $300. You want it? And you bought it, you’d be culpable.
Natali Del Conte Right.
Leo Laporte Because that’s still stolen property even if you didn’t know it’s stolen. If you may know, attempt to find the owner because it’s suspect. It’s pretty obvious that Apple isn’t offering him this iPhone for $5000. Somebody else is that’s clearly – is clearly not legitimately. And even if it’s found on a bar stool – and I don’t buy the story by the way because what’s the first thing – okay I know that, Natali, you’ve never been in a bar. But, Shira, you’ve been to a bar?
Shira Lazar Oh, yeah, totally.
Leo Laporte If you found some keys on the floor in a bar – Shira, if you –
Shira Lazar [ph] Yesterday at brunch (26:26) someone left their iPhone…
Leo Laporte Yeah.
Shira Lazar On the table and I had to remind them, it happens all the time.
Leo Laporte But what would you do? Wait a minute. Now listen to me. What would do if you were in a bar or a restaurant, you found some keys, what’s the first thing you do? Do you take it home and call Apple?
Becky Worley He says he tried to chase down the person who left it.
Leo Laporte PS: you give it to the freaking bartender. The first thing you do is –
Natali Del Conte Because it looked like a 3G…
Shira Lazar I know. When it’s something like the first iPad, iPod or iPhone, not iPod, I’m mixing up all my i’s. But the iPhone, I mean probably he was thinking, okay, I am going to play around with this, take some pictures, do a video and then find the owner. If you are a journalist, that’s a huge scoop.
Leo Laporte But he wasn’t a journalist. We don’t know who this guy was clearly though.
Natali Del Conte He was an opportunist.
Shira Lazar But he had a scoop. He knew he had a scoop.
Becky Worley Yeah, he did.
Leo Laporte Well, how did he know? Because it looked like an iPhone –
Becky Worley Okay, the only thing that’s most amazing about the whole deal was the custom case.
Natali Del Conte Did you see the case too?
Becky Worley So I pulled the case apart. And it was incredible. So inside the case it was completely fabricated. A real iPhone, an existing today iPhone would not fit in this case. It was custom made. And inside it had scored grid and then it had a cushioned backing. So the new prototype fit in perfectly. And then the back looked exactly like the existing iPhone. So if anything, my guess – like this is a total guess – is that he said something to the effect of well, I test out Apple iPhone.
Leo Laporte He said something.
Becky Worley This is a total guess. This is the total guess. I have no idea.
Leo Laporte He must have.
Becky Worley And then he –
Natali Del Conte And the influence of German beer.
Leo Laporte Or roofies.
Natali Del Conte And/or roofies, right?
Becky Worley [ph] Roofies, could be (28:02) and then he left it. And then the guy knew he had it.
Leo Laporte You know what? You’re right because otherwise how would this person know it was something worth anything at all.
Natali Del Conte Right.
Leo Laporte But I do think he knew because if he didn’t he would have left it with the bartender.
Natali Del Conte And you don’t go through – he had figured out that it belonged to – he went through the Facebook application.
Leo Laporte He knew who it belonged to, he saw the Facebook, yeah.
Natali Del Conte I once actually was at a party. And it was Julie Allison’s birthday and she showed up at this party and lost her phone. And someone gave it to me and said, let’s make phone calls and send this to Gawker or something. I took the phone.
Leo Laporte Good for you.
Natali Del Conte I turned it off.
Leo Laporte Good for you.
Natali Del Conte I went home and sent her an e-mail. And I think that this speaks to just general etiquette like you find something that doesn’t belong to you, you don’t play with it. You put it away, give it to someone who can get it back.
Leo Laporte Or if you do, you call a number in the phone and say, hey, do you know this person?
Natali Del Conte Right
Leo Laporte Whose phone this is because I just found it, maybe – I mean I would give it to the bartender. But maybe you do that.
Natali Del Conte But you turn it off.
Leo Laporte Yeah, yeah, you don’t mess with it.
Natali Del Conte I think the first thing to do is do not mess with it.
Becky Worley So this guy was a software engineer who worked in the photography area of – my understanding is of Apple or else he is an amateur photography buff. I can’t remember exactly which one is
Leo Laporte I thought he was QC engineer for the Baseband, the radio, but I don’t know. That’s not clear.
Becky Worley Well, he has some interest in photography. So my other theory is that he was out there testing the flash. What does it look like for bar photos?
Natali Del Conte Yeah. That’s [ph] a theory (29:30).
Leo Laporte Because there were bar photos.
Shira Lazar Does that mean that he had to drink too while testing it?
Leo Laporte Yeah, right.
Natali Del Conte It was his birthday.
Becky Worley We need to check the focus.
Leo Laporte It was his birthday. It was his birthday.
Shira Lazar And the guy who took it that didn’t give it to the bartender is the thief here. And then what he did after like the whole domino effect after that, it’s his fault, he should be the one at fault.
Leo Laporte Now, here is an interesting little side bar. Steve Wozniak called Wired Epicenter blog and said – talked about this little bit and said, by the way, as far as I know the guy has not been fired.
Natali Del Conte I don’t think they will fire him.
Leo Laporte Well, then Steve told an interesting story. He said but at midnight, the day the iPad went on sale, I was – I think Steve was at, we talked to him, I think he was at – what mall was he at [ph] Dane (30:10)? He was at…
Becky Worley Valley Fair.
Leo Laporte Valley Fair. And there was a picture of Steve holding what is clearly a 3G iPad. So it turns out an engineer from Apple, said hey Steve...
Natali Del Conte Thank you!
Leo Laporte He’s on delay. He just said, ‘Valley Fair!’
Natali Del Conte Let’s all go!
Leo Laporte Is that the slogan?
Natali Del Conte No, I don’t know.
Leo Laporte I used to hang out there.
Natali Del Conte But I’ll go, I like Valley Fair.
Leo Laporte Yeah, it’s a nice mall. There’s an Apple store. That’s Wozniak’s Apple store, the Palo Alto store is Steve Jobs’. Anyway, it turned out an engineer who had a 3G iPad – and Woz said, ‘I didn’t know it was a 3G’ – showed it to him and talked about it and Woz played with it a little bit. He was fired! Woz says ‘I feel terrible about this, this guy was fired. And he said probably what happens is HR says look, I know you’re showing Woz, he actually works for Apple. But you violated whatever rule, it can’t be done in public or whatever. And we have to fire everybody who does that. So you’re fired. So they didn’t fire [bleep], I’m sorry I really shouldn’t say his name. Can we bleep – we should bleep his name out, so that...
Shira Lazar Well it’s already on the internet.
Natali Del Conte Let’s call him John Smith.
Leo Laporte This poor guy. Whenever – anybody Googles his name for the rest of his life.
Natali Del Conte I know, yeah poor guy.
Leo Laporte Oh, you’re that guy. It’s like being Monica Lewinski. You just have to change your name, right?
Natali Del Conte I was watching Gadgets and Games and one of the theories from one of the panelists this week was – this is the Fox News Tech Show – was that it will be John Smith who we’re going to call now.
Leo Laporte Yes.
Natali Del Conte Who comes out on stage and announces the fourth iPhone.
Leo Laporte That’s a great idea!
Becky Worley I know that too, he should like through open the doors of the flagship store.
Leo Laporte Oh, and one more thing. Let me introduce John Smith. You may remember him from the [indiscernible] (31:47) in beautiful Redwood City. That’s funny. I think that would be a nice thing to do. Because everybody feels for this guy.
Natali Del Conte [ph] Because we like silly, (31:52) fun things like that…
Becky Worley He should be the new spokesperson.
Natali Del Conte …like when he talks about NBC and the break-up.
Leo Laporte Yeah. And I think that everybody kind of feels bad for this poor guy. I admit it, I tweeted his name because when that first Gizmodo article came out, because I felt so bad, said, you do not want to be this guy. Then I felt guilty because I did not want to give his name out, and I think we won’t on the show, I feel bad that he is all over the internet now.
Natali Del Conte Now you have to give him an iPad.
Leo Laporte Which is more reprehensible, writing a check for $5,000 for an iPhone that you think is probably stolen, because by the way when they responded to Apple’s lawyer, they said we’re so glad to give back this stolen phone, little Freudian slip there. Or after all of this happens, putting a big ass picture of the guy and his name on the front page of your blog and saying the story – what journalistic justification is there for that?
Natali Del Conte There is none.
Leo Laporte It’s horrible.
Natali Del Conte You can’t make any.
Becky Worley Okay, okay, okay, okay. I’m just going to play devil’s advocate here and say it was the story, that is what we know to have happened and people are fascinated by this story because the cult of Apple has made us want to be inside their secret world. So while of course it’s mean and I feel terrible for the guy and selling this device and it’s all so icky, it makes want to take a shower and I was involved in it too in terms of touching it, but it was the news.
Leo Laporte After you touch it, you should always take a shower, I’m sorry.
Natali Del Conte I’m not surprised.
Becky Worley But you know there is like Nick Denton and this blog, it’s like it’s the TMZ of tech blogs, so why are we surprised that something like this would go down? This is exactly the way they would...
Leo Laporte I feel so bad for this guy.
Natali Del Conte [Multiple speakers] (33:30) Herbert Gans kind of take on it and say that journalism is for finding out things like Woodburn and Bernstein, but I don’t think you can really take this as a sort of Gansian type – this is not for posterity, the reason the motivation for publishing this was selfish and it’s something that doesn’t belong to you.
Leo Laporte It’s link bait, it’s page views.
Natali Del Conte I mean it’s simple like finders keepers, losers weepers is what the jerk kid does on the playground.
Leo Laporte Right.
Becky Worley It’s dirty a journalistic move. It’s a dirty blogger move.
Leo Laporte Yeah.
Becky Worley And it happens.
Shira Lazar And that’s a big distinction is, is this blogging or is this journalism?
Natali Del Conte Yes, and I think that we’re talking about blogging here.
Leo Laporte They – but they would like to say they’re journalists.
Natali Del Conte Do you think that though?
Leo Laporte Yes of course they want to be journalists. I would consider us journalists.
Natali Del Conte They share our coffee in the pressroom, so they should share our ethics as well.
Leo Laporte But have they – and I guess that’s the bottom line.
Natali Del Conte And that’s not fair.
Leo Laporte Now we’re going to move on, but is this – have they violated journalistic ethics?
Natali Del Conte Yes…
Leo Laporte Maybe they’ve committed a crime, they’re being investigated.
Natali Del Conte If Becky and I found this, we would have had to take it to CBS or take it to the Legal Department of our networks and that would have been the end of it. We wouldn’t have been allowed to do anything else, but at the same time we were happy to discuss it on our various portals and we got clicks from that as well. So the question that I’m struggling with is like okay that didn’t belong to us, our motivation for talking about it was to continue to be known as the person who knows something about this, but where do we – then where do we draw the line for like this sort of – again, I don’t mean to bring Gans, but Herbert Gans’ idea that journalistic ethics is for the betterment of society and it makes us better people, because we can like break into these like what…
Leo Laporte You know what, you do ethics because you do ethics because it’s ethical.
Natali Del Conte Right.
Leo Laporte Not because it’s the…
Natali Del Conte This is not Watergate…
Leo Laporte You know because it’s just the right thing to do, period.
Becky Worley We would never be able – have to be able to pay for a story though, but if you think about it, strengthening relationships through taking people out for lunch or going for coffee with people in order to get stories, isn’t almost like the same…
Leo Laporte I don’t do that…
Becky Worley We pay for “photos” if people involved in…
Leo Laporte All right.
Becky Worley In stories, so I think the line is blurry all the way around. Was it kind of a dick move on Gawker’s part? Yeah. Did it make big news? Yeah.
Shira Lazar That’s what we would expect from them.
Becky Worley Yeah, and we all have to cover it then because…
Leo Laporte Right.
Becky Worley At that point it was news.
Leo Laporte Well we’re stopping. We are done covering it.
Natali Del Conte Yes, [indiscernible] (35:56)
Leo Laporte Except that I would say one thing which is the big loser here, Verizon, the Droid Desire which is about the nice – or I’m sorry, the Incredible, which is about the nicest phone I’ve seen in a long time and an iPhone beater gets no coverage at all because everybody is talking about this stupid iPhone. Have you played – any of you played with the Incredible yet?
Natali Del Conte No, I haven’t.
Leo Laporte It’s gorgeous, I’ve played with it…
Becky Worley We are here to prove your point, we were too busy doing the iPhone story.
Leo Laporte Yeah. I mean I use a Nexus One, which I really like and the Incredible is HTC, is kind of like – well, this is even better and Verizon has got it and it’s going to be out this week.
Becky Worley Why do you like it more than the Nexus One?
Leo Laporte Eight megapixel camera, it’s got the same AMOLED screen which I love on the Nexus One. It’s using the HTC Sense UI on top of Android 2.1, so it’s got all the features of Android 2.1, and it really looks like a phone, the kind of phone that would have gotten a lot of coverage in any other world, but Apples and Apple owns this boy, I tell you, they are very good at this. Even in this case, yes there was some damage to Apple because perhaps people aren’t buying iPhones till they find out – everybody knows it comes out in June anyway, I don’t think that changes anything, but they sure were able to bury the story about a big competitor, not to mention the KIN, the Windows KIN…
Natali Del Conte Yeah.
Shira Lazar And also brings out the fact that they are – even though it might be a story we’re talking about it later on that they might acquire ARM, so they’re going to destruct every single other phone out there…
Leo Laporte Yeah that’s an interesting rumor, ARM makes of course chips for a lot of phones and the ARM architecture is what the iPad A4 is based on, of course the iPhone uses an ARM chip, Apple has enough cash, they’ve got – what is it, 32 billion in the bank?
Shira Lazar That would only be 20% of their money to buy ARM and then – but does that go against antitrust laws like…?
Leo Laporte Well it has to be – I presume it’d have to be improved.
Becky Worley Well and especially isn’t ARM U.K. based?
Leo Laporte Right.
Becky Worley So they would have a ton of EU involvement, which does not, you know…
Leo Laporte Yeah.
Becky Worley They seem to be a little bit more stringent in terms of the…
Leo Laporte EU hates corporations, they hate them. They hate companies. It’s so funny; somebody was saying, I can’t remember this was on TWiG, somebody said it’s so strange because the Europeans who’ve had crappy governments for generations trust government and hate corporations, in the United States where we’ve had a great government but sketch corporations for generations, we love corporations, we hate government. What does that say, what does say about either of us? I really like this Incredible, I think it’s a great phone I think the Dell phone, which also leaked to have this week another Windows, the new Windows mobile platform, very interesting phone.
Becky Worley I got a picture of this segment, it’s like okay forget the iPhone and let’s just look at the other great phones that are out there, especially because people do have that AT&T thing, I’m writing that down right now, so…
Leo Laporte Yeah.
Becky Worley iPhone alternatives, that needs to be done.
Leo Laporte It’s a good story.
Natali Del Conte It’s interesting yeah, that’s good.
Leo Laporte What about Palm going away? The latest thing is that HTC which was one of couple of companies left that might consider buying them apparently has decided – declined to. I thought they might for the patents just to help them in their fight against Apple.
Natali Del Conte Right. That’s what I think the buzz was or that even Apple might consider that.
Leo Laporte Right.
Natali Del Conte But it appears…
Leo Laporte No, nobody wants it.
Natali Del Conte Once you look under the hood, it’s not that attractive…
Leo Laporte Isn’t it sad?
Natali Del Conte It is. I’m nostalgic for my Treos already.
Leo Laporte I have had – I had almost every Palm right up to the – was it the LifeDrive, the one the little 5 megabyte drive in it? I feel sad about that. But you know what, what you can’t – this is the juggernaut that is the iPhone.
Natali Del Conte Yeah.
Leo Laporte And it marches on. Did you see, go ahead…
Becky Worley Can we talk Blippy?
Leo Laporte Yeah, not yet, but we will be get to Blippy, I want to do one more iPhone story and this is because I have three women here. Are women more likely to give their number to a man with an iPhone?
Shira Lazar That was the most ridiculous story I heard this week. That’s pretty funny, I mean I can see how, it’s a sexy, hot…
Leo Laporte What, what?
Shira Lazar Accessory and phone, I think the iPhone is a hot thing.
Leo Laporte I’m sorry, I didn’t realize. I’m going to get rid of this Nexus One, okay. Really – really the iPhone is hot?
Becky Worley No. It reflects a certain socio-economic standard.
Leo Laporte You’re rich!
[Multiple speakers] (40:09).
Becky Worley Yeah. Apps are conversation starters, they go, hey, check out my – this app. Isn’t this funny? I don’t know and then maybe that creates conversation which then leads to… getting a number.
Leo Laporte ‘Yeah, look, I got a text from last night.’ I don’t know. What does that say about the iPad? Will the iPad make you friends?
Natali Del Conte Yeah, total chick magnet.
Leo Laporte Really?
Natali Del Conte I don’t know.
Leo Laporte No.
Natali Del Conte But I am the coolest person on the subway when you get on. When you’re reading an iPad on the subway, and then I see someone else with it and I’m like, I want to be the only one with it.
Leo Laporte I actually actively, I don’t want people to bug me so I kind of hide it and I pretend I’m not – I really, it’s like no, I don’t have an iPad, now go away.
Natali Del Conte Really?
Leo Laporte Yeah. I don’t want the attention.
Shira Lazar You just want to keep all ten of your fingers.
Leo Laporte I just keep want to keep playing God Finger and We Rule.
Becky Worley Wasn’t there some guy who lost a part of his finger because somebody ripped the iPad out of his hand?
Leo Laporte Yes, the tip of his pinky. It was – he had an Apple bag and the Apple bag apparently cinches around your finger if somebody steals it.
Natali Del Conte Ah, it’s a small price to pay though considering that people got killed for the PlayStation 3 when it came out.
Leo Laporte It’s true. Good point.
Natali Del Conte So I’d rather lose a pinky than my life.
Leo Laporte Say again, there.
Shira Lazar I met a guy that did cargo pants for his iPad, he made like custom cargo pants.
Leo Laporte Now that’s hot. He’s got like a big thing in his – on his thigh. I don’t know. I don’t think so. I am sorry.
Becky Worley There’s a joke there that even I will decline to follow.
Leo Laporte If your dad were here Becky, I know you’d go for it.
Becky Worley I’d go for it, like, is that an iPad in your pants?
Leo Laporte It’s funny. What is this? Because Becky brings her dad and Natali you bring your mom, what is this? Is this – are you afraid of me, is that it?
Natali Del Conte It’s a family show.
Leo Laporte Oh, it’s a family show.
Natali Del Conte I brought two and a half generations.
Leo Laporte You did. So Blippy – I like Blippy, do you use Blippy, Shira?
Shira Lazar I don’t use Blippy. I don’t care to share what I’m buying with people really that much. I just tweet – if I am buying something and I want to share it, I just tweet it.
Leo Laporte Yeah. I think the advantage of Blippy is it’s kind of automatic. You hook up your Amazon or your iTunes, you could hook up a credit card to it and it’s kind of like it automatically tweets your purchases. You know who started this? Philip – well, a number of people but Philip Kaplan, Pud, the guy who did F-ed Company is one of their kind of advisors. He came in early on, on this.
Becky Worley I signed up for it just to watch other people and I thought it interesting what people were renting on Netflix and the iTunes aspect but tying it to your credit card and having all of your purchases made public, that is so ridiculous and creepy and oversharing and it really bugs me at every level as a consumer and as a consumer reporter.
Leo Laporte Well, I guess, I must stop doing that.
Shira Lazar Well, then it also lets – I can see why people would want to share so that if their friends are buying presents for them, they could get a sense of the things they have already been buying.
Leo Laporte I think it’s fascinating to see what people are buying. Now, the iTunes thing is great because you see what music and apps they are buying. That’s neat.
Becky Worley You also feel like for a personality like I saw iJustine just go there. She talks about what she’s buying, but could that be a sponsorship deal also?
Leo Laporte Well, it’s certainly a way for Blippy to make…
Natali Del Conte I think that’s probably what they were hoping that there would be something along the lines there. But if you are really, really judicious about the people that you accept within that network then it has maybe some use value when you are looking for specific types of things.
Leo Laporte So you could see what movies I am watching. You could see what…
Becky Worley I am sorry, Natali Del Conte is the nicest person and her purchases must be so upstanding and I just am not that nice or let me just put it to you this way, I don’t want you all to know what I am buying.
Leo Laporte You don’t have to put everything on there. You have control over that. I only have one credit card on there. You can say review what the things are and not - and uncheck some if you’ve had a Swedish penis pump you could say, it’s not mine. That kind of thing.
Shira Lazar I get worried about these automatic alerts. I am starting to do them for everything, every program that I use. And then sometimes you’re like I don’t want really that automatic alert, but you’re not near your computer or you can’t get it.
Leo Laporte I am going to defend it because I just think it’s kind of like – okay. Here I bought Kick Ass the comic, right? And we get these comments and people can talk about it. I think this is kind of neat. I just – I think there’s some value into seeing what people are buying as a recommendation service and I think that the comments are kind of a great way to – it’s a conversation starter.
Natali Del Conte I’m starting to research gear that goes along with procreation and I don’t understand how people choose strollers and…
Leo Laporte So that would be a good example.
Natali Del Conte Carriers and that kind of thing and I go to Amazon and the top rated stuff. And I don’t know if this crazy person thinks this stroller’s great. Like, I don’t know anything about this.
Becky Worley Natali, just call me.
Leo Laporte That’s what you do. That’s what you do. You call another mom.
Natali Del Conte I would appreciate something where like if I did buy this one stroller and people would be like, it will cut your baby’s fingers off then you know….
Leo Laporte You know, it’s funny is that our kids are 18 and 15 now. I know all about strollers from the 90s.
Shira Lazar That’s great advice, Leo.
Leo Laporte It changes. It’s like…
Becky Worley I hear that Maclaren rocks.
Leo Laporte Exactly, we had a Maclaren.
Natali Del Conte What is that?
Leo Laporte Do they still have Maclarens?
Becky Worley Yeah, they have Maclarens. They are okay. They are like…
Leo Laporte It’s British.
Becky Worley …the station wagon, they are solid.
Leo Laporte That’s what we had, is a Maclaren.
Becky Worley But we have evolved.
Leo Laporte But you don’t use a [ph] Prika (45:29). Those are kind of – no, those are junky. No, what do you like?
Becky Worley The City Mini.
Leo Laporte City Mini.
Becky Worley You’ve got to get it Natali, it’s the best.
Natali Del Conte Okay.
Leo Laporte Is it…
Becky Worley Going to hook you up with some serious recommendations.
Natali Del Conte I am sorry to turn this into baby talk you guys, I really don’t mean to do this. But I just…
Leo Laporte Shira’s crossing her legs right now. She’s like I don’t want to know.
Shira Lazar I am enjoying - I am just observing.
Leo Laporte Okay.
Shira Lazar I have nothing more to say.
Natali Del Conte Should we back into the Blippy credit card exposure…
Leo Laporte Well, that’s why Blippy’s in the news and somebody told me one of them was mine but I don’t think that’s the case. So…
Becky Worley It wasn’t.
Leo Laporte What happened with Blippy is they strip out – they take the raw feed from your credit card, they are using the same service that Mint uses, which is the same service that a lot of banks use. What is it? I can’t remember the name of it is - some silly Web 2.0 wooppy, wooppy, dooppy name. But all the banks use it so you’re not giving your credit card information to Blippy per se, you’re giving it to this third party that banks and Mint use so it’s not like you’re revealing anything but the information Blippy was getting back did include credit card numbers and a lot of other raw information. Their automatic system strips it out and then posts this kind of Babel-erized version of what you bought. But apparently Google was caching full information and if you did a Google search for Blippy you could get these credit card numbers, but it was only four numbers, right Becky, is that right?
Becky Worley It was five they say and I went through all 18 pages because we were going to do it for GMA and so I started going through all 18 pages and also noticed it was the same four and then one number was on like a later page. And so…
Leo Laporte And they were early adopters. This was from beta, but I was part of the beta, so it made me a little nervous I came really close to killing my Blippy account. And I think I may still.
Becky Worley Did it make you nervous?
Leo Laporte Yeah.
Shira Lazar It puts things into question when information like that is released definitely.
Leo Laporte Yeah. That’s a pretty big leak
Becky Worley Yeah. I called Pud on Friday because I wanted comment from them if we were going to run it on Saturday morning and by the time he returned my call, the information had come out that it wasn’t all users’ credit cards released, it was just four or five.
Leo Laporte It was a pretty minor.
Natali Del Conte Right.
Becky Worley He was doing a lot of damage control and at that point, when I said okay, if it’s only four or five people then we are not going to do the story. And I could hear this feeling of visible exhale of just this incredible relief and he said, my day which already sucks just got less worse.
Leo Laporte Well, it’s a death – it could be a death blow, I mean this is a start-up and that could be the death blow. It’s kind of – they have a – the truth is well, I thought it was a really good idea. Nope, everybody has the same reaction you all did, which is I am not going to do that.
Becky Worley Yes.
Leo Laporte So I think it is dead anyway, but…
Becky Worley Something like that that creates a huge privacy backlash
Leo Laporte Right.
Becky Worley From the general public.
Natali Del Conte It’s funny though that we keep trying to figure out the best form of recommending products to our friends and family and really no one has been successful at it yet.
Leo Laporte I think Amazon’s pretty good.
Becky Worley Well, you know, yes, Facebook, that’s the next [indiscernible] (48:32).
Leo Laporte All right, next subject is Facebook and we are going to get to that in just a second. We are going to take a commercial break. I just did want to point out one thing, so I was talking about e-commerce, Amazon seems to have thrown in the towel because you know they were fighting the iPad tooth and nail right on the front page now, Free Kindle for iPad, no longer is there a Kindle ad on the front page of Amazon, there is an ad for their iPad app.
Natali Del Conte I think they forgot that they make hardware.
Leo Laporte I think they suddenly realized, I bet you the stats came in and they realized even now one week in more Kindle books are being read and sold on the iPad than were ever sold on the Kindle. That’s how I read my books now. I mean I’m glad there is a Kindle app because I can read all the Kindle books…
Natali Del Conte Yes, me too.
Leo Laporte I can still buy books, Amazon still gets the money; they just don’t sell the Kindle. What’s the big deal? I think it’s very interesting that they’ve kind of changed their front page and they said yes, you might want to get Kindle for iPad.
Becky Worley It’s not a fight worth fighting.
Leo Laporte Right.
Becky Worley They shouldn’t get in the hardware game.
Leo Laporte Who cares? Right. All right, we want to take a break, coming back in a little bit with our great guest Natali Del Conte from Buzz Out Loud on CNET and the CBS of course, From CBS Digital, there the digital goddess, Shira Lazar, great to have you…
Shira Lazar Thank you.
Leo Laporte And from ABC, and Good Morning America, my old friend from TechTV, Becky Worley, who is @Borley on twitter.
Becky Worley Right.
Leo Laporte @Borley, I get all of there, but you are @natalidelconte on Twitter?
Natali Del Conte All one word.
Leo Laporte All one word. And Shira, are you Shira on Twitter, what is your?
Shira Lazar @shiralazar.
Leo Laporte Shira Lazar, the full name.
Shira Lazar Yes, my full name, [indiscernible] @shira, [ph] like she’d get (50:04) like Madonna.
Leo Laporte Yes, how many Shiras are there in the world? You probably could. It might be too late now.
Shira Lazar Oh, no, there is a Shira, there is a Shira, she has, she is a blogger, freelance writer…
Leo Laporte Damn.
Shira Lazar Sorry I’m a bit [indiscernible] there (50:21)…
Leo Laporte You know, there is a Leo and he has got five friends, he’s only had five friends for three years, he’s got a blog feed…
Becky Worley Are you one of them?
Leo Laporte No, because his feed is blocked.
Becky Worley Oh.
Leo Laporte But there’s a new service which I signed up for, that notifies you because apparently Twitter is killing old accounts that haven’t been much used and there is a service that will notify you when it becomes free, so I’m hoping I can get Leo.
Natali Del Conte Now we are all going to spam him. Give it up!
Shira Lazar What service is that?
Leo Laporte I’ll have to find it because you might want to reserve Shira.
Shira Lazar Yes, I would love to. You should save that site.
Leo Laporte I’ll find it. I don’t remember what it is and if I – when I can find it I will, maybe somebody in the chatroom, chatroom will tell me because that’s probably how I found out about it in the first place. The chatroom is my brain.
I do want to tell you about Carbonite Pro, Carbonite is a long-time sponsor; it’s a great back-up solution for end users, Carbonite Pro is their new solution for business, it turned out when Carbonite started talking to users they found out a lot of their users were businesses who were using the consumer version of Carbonite because it was so simple so easy, it worked so well, Carbonite, you go and you install it on your system and immediately starts backing up those individual personal files like photos, documents, e-mails, financial documents, encrypted with AES 256 bit encryption, to the cloud using SSL so it’s absolutely secure and safe, and then anytime you need to restore, you can restore on any system, just log into Carbonite in your account and get it back. So Carbonite said, well, we, maybe we should do a business version, and now they have, Carbonite Pro.
Carbonite Pro is fantastic. It allows you to – twitter claims, thank you, yes, yes, that’s it, it allows you to back up all the desks in your office with one account, one dashboard, you know which ones are backed up, which ones aren’t, I like this, if you’ve ever worked in an office, and you have accidentally deleted a file and you know you have to make the perp walk down the hall to the IT department, and beg them to restore it, I hate that, so this way you can let your users restore their own files. You don’t have to but you can, every employee has access, if you want, you will be notified; your office will be up and running again with no headaches, no time lost, look at this as a solution that’s been around for some time now, it’s really polished, really great, Carbonite Pro, prices start as low as $10 a month, I’ll give you an example, eight computers, 5 gigs backup, 25 bucks a month, it’s really affordable.
CarbonitePro.com. Please go there and take a look. It is a great solution. You got to back it up to get it back. Carbonite Pro for small business. We’ll do it for you.
So TwitterClaims.com is how I was able to say I want Leo and she should do that with Shira.
Shira Lazar I wonder if there will be some kind of redirect where you can have more than one Twitter ID because when you get the URL for say Leo Laporte and TWiT and all of that stuff…
Leo Laporte I should.
Shira Lazar Then it may be interesting to be able to have more than one so that is your complete holistic brand.
Leo Laporte Do you guys use something like HootSuite or something to manage like multiple accounts and things like that or TweetDeck, I mean, how do you do it Natali?
Natali Del Conte Yes, I use Tweety on mobile and I use TweetDeck.
Leo Laporte Oh, the official Twitter application.
Natali Del Conte Oh, yes, that’s right it’s not called that anymore.
Leo Laporte Well, that’s the twitter application.
Natali Del Conte They are moving it, yes.
Leo Laporte Yes.
Natali Del Conte And I use TweetDeck because I have a couple of accounts as well.
Leo Laporte Becky, do you multiple – do you have multiple twitters?
Becky Worley I used to have Twitterlater for some things just because I kind of started on that and then I use TweetDeck so.
Leo Laporte Yes. The big Facebook Developers conference, F8, happened today. Mark Zuckerberg spoke on Wednesday.
Natali Del Conte I have been calling it FEight!
Leo Laporte FEight. I wonder, yes, that must be what they are thinking, right?
Natali Del Conte Maybe, I don’t…
Leo Laporte Really, really, what they…
Shira Lazar As a true California girl you see it as a license plate.
Leo Laporte It’s a license plate, that’s right. But it is fate because basically it’s Facebook’s world, we just live in it.
Becky Worley It would appear to be so.
Leo Laporte I feel like what they did was a big grab for the Internet. They basically said don’t use the Internet, use Facebook.
Natali Del Conte And use Facebook behaviors when you are not on Facebook everywhere else.
Leo Laporte Right. So…
Shira Lazar Like Facebook washing they are saying it like a brain washing Facebook.
Leo Laporte And when Mark Zuckerberg says, open, he is not really saying, the open net, he is saying open as long as it is going, all going to us, so and you know I don’t think that regular users will get this, but it, because it seems very nice and simple, well they are going to put a like button on websites, anybody can run the Facebook like button on their website, and when you press like if you are logged into Facebook, it will automatically go to your news feed with a - and who wouldn’t want a little plug on the news feed, and then you can aggregate the likes, you can aggregate the comments back on the original site, what’s wrong with that.
Natali Del Conte Well…
Shira Lazar Control.
Natali Del Conte Yes. I feel like everyone should read Molly’s Rant blog from this week because she talks a lot about how it’s opt out which is intrusive so everything that you want to like around the web then becomes public unless you do a lot of work actually to make that not the case. So that in and of itself is offensive. It’s also exactly what Google was trying to do with Google Friend Connect, but they haven’t really been successful.
Leo Laporte But Google Friend Connect is opt in.
Natali Del Conte Is opt in.
Leo Laporte You have to log in and say I want to be part of this.
Natali Del Conte But that’s what Google wanted to do. They just haven’t been as successful at creating that behavior, because Google Friend Connect wanted it to be that every website all over the place had a Google log in, a Google chat, any kind of Google Buzz, they haven’t been able to do that yet. It will be interesting to see if they can do it with Buzz, and make that more ubiquitous. But they haven’t been able to but because we spend so much time in the Facebook ecosystem we know those behaviors, we know to like something…
Leo Laporte Right.
Natali Del Conte To comment on something, so that’s something that can extend outside of the ecosystem of Facebook.
Leo Laporte But ultimately everything comes back to Facebook so that Facebook gathers information about you, where you visit, what you are doing, all the sites you visit and then sells it.
Shira Lazar Their way of tracking more and more of what we are doing and having control of our actions and keeping us in the Facebook ecosphere…
Leo Laporte Right.
Shira Lazar …and ecosystem. But you know what, Google – the reason why I figured that didn’t work, is because people look at Google still as search; whereas Facebook, we’ll always look at it as our social platform, the way we connect with each other. So we’re just adding these layers that make sense, in a way, which makes it an easier extension of what we’re doing. Even though that’s their – more of their way of controlling us.
Becky Worley I do think, Leo – and Shira and Natali, tell me what you think – do you think that for people who are overwhelmed by the internet, do you think that if Facebook’s plan proceeds as they envision it, that it would create almost like a gated, safe, this is the part of the internet that makes sense for the people who are sort of overwhelmed by the scary internet? Is there any upside of it in that direction?
Leo Laporte Yeah, in the same way that AOL made people feel safe. That was their first interaction with the internet. And this is exactly what Facebook is trying to create, is an AOL-styled Facebook internet.
Becky Worley Where they’re not responsible for the content.
Leo Laporte Right. Even better.
Shira Lazar Well, do you think on the other hand, people might rebel and say, you know what? I don’t feel like logging into Facebook. I just want to navigate things on my own. I don’t want anyone telling me that I need to be logged into anywhere. Would people go the other direction at a certain point, if they feel that control?
Natali Del Conte I think those people are few and far between. Most people will just kind of follow the mob.
Leo Laporte I can tell you right now, the conversation we’re having is being held only by a few geeks who even understand what all of this means. The normal world would just say, oh, that’s cool, a ‘Like’ button. Big deal.
Shira Lazar This is exactly like David Pogue’s review of the iPad. You know, geeks won’t like the fact that you can’t control it. They’ll love a lot of the hardware, but they won’t like the lack of control. And the gen pop will think, oh, that’s just cool. And they’re given everything they need to deal with without the headaches of customization and control.
Leo Laporte So if there are 400 million people who use Facebook, of that, 399,990,000 will say ‘yeah!’ and 10,000 will go ‘uh-oh.’ Unfortunately we’re – the people listening to this show are in that group.
Shira Lazar And the parts that you like, I mean I went to Yelp to test it out and I loved the fact that I could see what my Facebook friends had reviewed. And that was just another layer of exactly what Zuckerberg was talking about, in terms of having the web mitigated by people you trust. In a more passive way for me, the user. Now I’m sort of playing devil’s advocate…
Leo Laporte No, no. Everybody wants that. This is the difference. What we don’t want is for one company to own that and if it were to only come from one company.
So I would like my Facebook friends, my Twitter friends, my Google friends, my anybody else friends, I’d like to know that. I don’t want it to just be Facebook and I don’t want Facebook to own and control all that content.
So absolutely. What they’re providing is of value. But it’s of value primarily to Facebook, because it is about the Facebook world.
Natali Del Conte And we saw from that Read-Write Web debacle a couple of months ago that most people go to – not most – but a lot of people still go to Google, type in Facebook and find Facebook that way instead of just putting ‘facebook’ in the URL. So that shows that a lot of people are very far removed from the actual process. And that’s [ph] Dana Boyd’s (59:29) whole point, is that defaults matter, and the fact that this is on by default is what’s…
Leo Laporte Exactly.
Natali Del Conte …most offensive about it. And if you could control it a little bit more, have more autonomy, then I wouldn’t be so scared of it.
Becky Worley So your complaint is that Facebook is the opiate of the masses?
Leo Laporte Yes.
Natali Del Conte I’m not sure if I made that – did I make that point?
Leo Laporte I like that, it’s very Marxist of you.
Becky Worley That’s a great quote.
Leo Laporte Yeah.
Becky Worley But I mean – but as a consumer reporter and someone who has to think about what’s the easiest for people who just don’t want the level of interaction with the web that we take, because we’re geeks – I can see the benefit.
Shira Lazar But I – the internet for many normal users, the masses, is overwhelming. So if your friends can curate that for you and then also Facebook will recommend things knowing that – the other news you’re looking at, they’ll recommend other stories for you. So for the masses, the regular users, that could be something that makes things easier.
Leo Laporte It is, and it’s the – okay, so…
Natali Del Conte But we’re assuming that a lot of people have digital discretion, which they don’t. I don’t think that that’s…
Leo Laporte Or even are aware enough to exercise it.
Natali Del Conte Right.
Leo Laporte They’re just going to take the – as you said, the default. The problem is that they’re – look, the social graph – this is the term that people use to describe the map of you and your interconnections in the world, is your social graph – the social graph is very valuable. Being able to walk by a restaurant and find out what your friends think of that restaurant is hugely valuable. What is dangerous is for any one company to be the collector and arbiter of that. And that’s what Facebook, with its 400 million users, is uniquely positioned to do. They may even already – the war may be over, because they have such dominance, that everyone uses it.
Natali Del Conte Well now – and I tend to think – I’m going to get a little bit esoteric here. But I tend to think that – I was talking about earlier how there really is no one website that recommends everything that we want. Because we are right now culturally developing a learned behavior which David Levy – who is a professor out of The University of Washington – calls information environmentalism. We’re learning how to filter out what’s pertinent to us versus what’s not pertinent to us. I don’t think there’s a technology that’s going to do that for us, but I think that Facebook thinks that it is going to be that technology. And that’s where I find that a little bit dangerous.
Leo Laporte Absolutely.
Becky Worley Damn, Natali, that pregnancy has got something going on with you.
Natali Del Conte I stay home and knit and read, that’s all I do. I don’t get out much.
Leo Laporte No, it’s a very good point. And so when you go searching for a stroller, it’s only a matter of time before you just go, oh, I’ll look for my…
Shira Lazar [Indiscernible] (62:22) I mean right now, there’s causes where you can donate through this site through Facebook. It will only be a matter of time where you’re going to be able to buy products, see what your friends have bought whether they do a status update, and then click it, and within Facebook you can buy it.
Leo Laporte And this is Mark Zuckerberg’s exact dream. He says, the next time Natali wants a stroller, she should just log into her Facebook page, and not only will we already know and have an ad for a stroller, but we’ll also aggregate all of your friends’ decisions. You won’t even have to ask! We’ll just know!
Natali Del Conte Right. So where’s the agency in that? Where – then I don’t become smarter, I don’t become… I don’t get to practice information environmentalism.
Leo Laporte No, but Facebook becomes richer.
Leo Laporte One at a time, first Becky, and then Shira. Go ahead Becky.
Becky Worley I think that’s the point, though, is that we’re just all too busy to be active advocates in all of this. We just need a little bit more – a cleaner feed coming at us that’s more relevant information, the overload right now is too much for most people. I mean the amount of information I’m consuming today versus what I consumed three years ago, five years ago? Off the charts. I’m looking for that stream to get narrower.
Leo Laporte Shira. Go ahead.
Shira Lazar Oh, I was just going to say, that’s what technology does. Make things simpler. And not that that’s sometimes better for us, because it makes us simpler beings in terms of the way we consume things, but that’s just evolution.
Leo Laporte But that’s the danger – and this is why I really worry – is because while a few of us know and care about the fact that it should be open, it should be a – a large number of companies involved in this. Facebook’s going to make it so easy, so convenient, so automatic for 400 million people, that it might even be the battle is over.
Shira Lazar But now we’re moralizing what is better in terms of how we control information or whether or not it’s controlled for us.
Leo Laporte Well, no, that’s not moralizing. To say that no one company should control this information, that’s not moralizing. That’s absolute truth. You think one company should be in charge of that?
Shira Lazar No, no, no. I mean we’re moralizing how much we should be in charge of our own information and we’re moralizing how much we should be involved in the process.
Leo Laporte Well, we know what’s best for those people.
Shira Lazar Well, you and I do, I would agree with that.
Leo Laporte Yes, yes, we know what’s best for you…
Shira Lazar Yes.
Leo Laporte …and you should listen to us and you shouldn’t become Facebook whores. But…
Natali Del Conte Well, I think that it’s best not to become, you know, the bewildered herd is what Noam Chomsky calls them. So…
Leo Laporte Damn, she did it again. Oh man! I am feeling so dumb right now.
Natali Del Conte I’m going to stop now.
Leo Laporte No, that’s great, Natali…
Shira Lazar No, we love it!
Leo Laporte I’m impressed, it’s wonderful.
Becky Worley But who would be a competitor to this service? Do you think that this is – I mean how does this differ - would Digg be able to compete? I mean who…
Leo Laporte No, no. Google…
Shira Lazar Does this kill Digg?
Leo Laporte No. Well – the question is, is Digg still alive. Not is this going to kill Digg, is Digg still alive. I think Google – Google is the only credible company that could fight this. And Google’s trying to do the same thing, but do it with open standards and do it – I believe – in a more collegial way. I think Facebook really is – this is Facebook really saying, we want it all. We want to own you.
Shira Lazar The thing is with Google, still – people still create their sites and do Google SEO, so we’re creating stuff around Google search. But this definitely closes the game a bit.
Leo Laporte Yeah. And you can do this when you have this much power. You know, Fred Wilson talks about this. He’s the venture capitalist and blogger who writes at avc.com. He says, clearly, Facebook is executing fast and well at a scale few internet companies have ever reached. It’s very impressive to watch. But – he’s talking about his colleague who wrote a blog post, Albert – who says, I see at least one flaw with this plan for domination. I simply don’t believe that there is a single social graph that makes sense. I may very well follow someone’s bookmarks on Delicious, that I don’t want to have any other relationship with. Or take the group of people I feel comfortable sharing my FourSquare check-ins with, these are all people I trust and would enjoy if they showed up right there and then. That group in turn is different from the people I work with on Google Docs or Microsoft Docs connected to Facebook. Trying to shoe-horn all of these into a single graph is unlikely to work well. Fred says, I’m with Albert on this issue, I don’t think it will happen. But we – and we are putting our money as a Venture firm, where our mouths are, by backing companies like Twitter, Tumblr, FourSquare, Discus Get Glue and others that are building different social graphs.
So maybe the fact is, there isn’t one social graph to rule them all. We don’t have to worry about it because Facebook couldn’t serve everybody. Facebook’s where – I mean isn’t it true that your Facebook friends are different from your Twitter friends? That’s a different graph, isn’t it?
Natali Del Conte Well, they’re not mutually exclusive, that’s for sure.
Leo Laporte They overlap. They overlap.
Natali Del Conte Right. They’re a Venn diagram.
Leo Laporte Yeah. But they are different…
Shira Lazar [indiscernible] (67:15) because for Facebook, you need to follow each other to be part of the experience…
Leo Laporte Yeah. But I – for instance, maybe all of you are Facebook friends of mine, because I consider you friends in real life. But I may also follow people on Twitter that I wouldn’t necessarily consider friends or I wouldn’t ask for baby stroller recommendations from, or I wouldn’t necessarily want food recommendations from. So…
Becky Worley I think it will become a much clearer line, that Facebook is for friends and ‘frolleagues’, and then Twitter is only for more professional or published…
Leo Laporte It’s for news.
Shira Lazar Yeah, it’s a news stream.
Leo Laporte Yeah. So they’ll both coexist?
Becky Worley I don’t think it’s a competition anymore. I think Facebook last year was really looking at Twitter as a huge competitor, and I always thought that was the wrong thing. And…
Leo Laporte I think they left Twitter in the dust.
Becky Worley What?
Leo Laporte I think they’ve left Twitter in the dust, don’t you?
Natali Del Conte Facebook has?
Leo Laporte Yeah.
Shira Lazar Well, no, Twitter still has its functionality completely. I look at it as a different use, like…
Leo Laporte Do you pipe your Tweets into your Facebook page?
Shira Lazar I do, I connect the two. And then I have my Facebook fan page and then my regular Facebook.
Leo Laporte Don’t we all?
Becky Worley I think that that’s a mistake, because I think that most users – especially of the geeky crowd – they know to separate. And like, I want to hear about Tom and Eileen’s vacation in Hawaii on Facebook. And I want to hear about Tom’s streaming of whatever show he’s doing via Twitter.
Leo Laporte Too much work!
Becky Worley Yeah, I like to separate.
Leo Laporte But isn’t it too much work for – I mean I agree with you, I think you should post natively. On Buzz, I don’t pipe anything into Buzz, I just Buzz. But I do pipe my Buzz into Twitter. Okay. But I think you should post…
Natali Del Conte I was just noticing that.
Leo Laporte I think you should post – well, only because it’s the same kind of content. But I think you should post natively in the language of the medium. But who has time?
Shira Lazar Right, so many things to update. We have too many things.
Leo Laporte Yeah. Yeah.
Natali Del Conte And then that begs the question of branding yourself as well, because a lot of times…
Leo Laporte Yeah, we’re different. We’re different.
Natali Del Conte …people want your personality inside of your brand, even though we are news journalists.
Leo Laporte Right. We’re different. I think we’re probably not normal in any respect but...
Becky Worley Hey, can I ask a dumb question?
Leo Laporte Yes, please.
Becky Worley I was at the – I was not at South By Southwest. I was at The Home and House Ware Show in Chicago.
Leo Laporte Which was much more fun, I’m sure.
Becky Worley I didn’t want to brag, but –
Natali Del Conte There’s no pressure to drink, at least, there, right?
Leo Laporte Yeah really.
Becky Worley When they say drink the Kool-Aid, they really mean Kool-Aid. But one of the words that I’ve just heard come out so much from South by Southwest is this – ‘we’re curating, curating.’ And I get the concept, but what is the genesis of this word? Why is this such a huge concept now? Can one of the learned – Natali could no doubt throw out some names and really impress me – but can you just give me the synopsis of curate and why it’s such a big deal now?
Leo Laporte I can tell you something, because I am an old guy.
Natali Del Conte Yeah, good, don’t put the pressure on me.
Leo Laporte Just think of some big names you can drop and I’ll be back in a sec. No I could tell you because I am an old guy, because I’ve watched this happen, so what happened was, when the Internet turned on it turned on a fire hose of information and immediately became apparent that there was no differentiation between good and bad, that there was too much to absorb and it became very clear, in fact early on in the Internet, remember these meta pages, I know you’re old enough Becky to remember that where –
Becky Worley That was Dvorak’s game for a while.
Leo Laporte Right, or if you wanted to know everything there was to know about Cricket you wouldn’t go one by one to all the Cricket pages, you’d try to find a Cricket – a curated Cricket collection of pages. That’s what Wikipedia is, is really is a curated link, so what happened very quickly is we realized we can’t follow at all, so we need to follow somebody who is curating it. And that’s just a – it’s a information management problem, I think we had to do that. And by the way, where is the money on the net, the aggregator and the curator. So that’s why at South by Southwest people are interested in that, it’s the same – it’s kind of Mark Zuckerberg is small scale, Mark wants to curate everything known on the net so that you go through Facebook and he can reap all the gold. And really that’s – if anybody is doing curation, that’s what they are hoping, that you will go to Buzz Out Loud or CNET or CBS because that’s where we will make sense of this flood.
Shira Lazar And not only platforms are curators, the people instead of just being storytellers are curators too.
Leo Laporte Well that’s another kind of curation, isn’t it? Making sense of it. That’s what a journalist does. A journalist takes the facts, but – I mean there’s a reporter who reports the facts but a true journalist takes the facts, reports them and then makes sense of them. If you don’t make sense of this –
Shira Lazar And goes to the source, it isn’t just a wire service, but actually goes to a source or finds their own angle that is different from the rest.
Leo Laporte All we do on this show – all we do on this show is tell stories. This show – every show I do is a meta show, we don’t do – we don’t go out there and hit the field and do the stories, we let you guys do that.
Natali Del Conte Right.
Leo Laporte Then we bring in people who say, well here are the facts that others have gathered, this is what it means.
Natali Del Conte Well Becky, are you sort of knitting your brow at the word curate because it sounds like what big networks try to do, which is bring in information that you decide, that they decide that we’re going to consume?
Becky Worley I guess it was just more the context, sort of the tipping point in the sense of the social media world, because it seems like this word took on a new meaning and just I’ve seen it everywhere in the last four weeks, it’s like it – if it had a graph of its use in context, it would be on a straight hockey puck scale right now and I am just wondering if there was something that tipped it in this context because I just didn’t know where that came from.
Natali Del Conte Well we’re low on buzzwords, there was semantic web for a while and then before that it was Web 2.0, so maybe...
Leo Laporte It’s a buzzword deficit I think.
Natali Del Conte ...maybe curate is the next big thing.
Leo Laporte To me Becky the thing that made me nauseous at South by Southwest is I met – everybody I met was a ‘social media consultant’ or a ‘social media expert’.
Becky Worley Yes, we’re sick of that. [indiscernible] (1:13:18).
Natali Del Conte That means you just graduated from college.
Leo Laporte I know how to use Twitter. And what’s sad is there’s a gold rush and I think a lot of these people are making money huckstering big corporations who are going ‘what is Twitter?’ And they’ll bring in some college kid who says, ‘well let me tell you, I can show you how to use Twitter.’
Natali Del Conte Well that was like the whole George Clooney movie Up In The Air where the girl comes out of college and says, well I know how to use video chat.
Leo Laporte Right. Right.
Natali Del Conte So I’m the next big thing...
Leo Laporte Right.
Natali Del Conte ...and then you realize that there is something to be said about age and experience.
Leo Laporte That was a great movie.
Becky Worley I actually have to say video chat and age and experience are working for me, I ran into an old colleague of ours, a photographer, Mark Neuling, Leo I don’t know if you worked with him, and he saw me and he said Becky I’ve seen your Skype live shots on ABC, I was worried for you when you were in the studio and everything was in HD but now that you’re compressed on Skype your career’s going to go [indiscernible] (1:14:04).
Leo Laporte What a bastard. What a jerk. You know I have to say though and we have been observing this today and I have watched you on GMA, you did - doing Skype on GMA, it looks – what did they do? You look lovely. Is it lighting, do they put real lights in there? Do you have a super huge bandwidth, what is it?
Becky Worley It’s completely my own rig, bubblegum and baling wire that I kludged together and while I do have a Canon GL2...
Leo Laporte Oh! That’s it.
Becky Worley ...fire wired in so it’s [indiscernible]...(1:14:32) and I bought it on eBay cheap…
Leo Laporte Okay. That’s it. That’s why, okay.
Becky Worley …because it’s all other problems, but we won’t talk about that. I have a desk lamp over here and the real thing is while I upgraded from DSL, the cable modem, and that had no impact on the quality of the shot, here’s the secret, look at the colors behind me.
Leo Laporte White.
Becky Worley There’s two colors.
Leo Laporte Right.
Becky Worley White and black.
Leo Laporte Right.
Becky Worley And it’s not rich, it’s not textured, the monochromatic thing going on behind me which is my kitchen and I keep it tight, so you can’t see the children’s bottles littered all over.
Natali Del Conte I think that because it’s so monochromatic it doesn’t compress as much.
Leo Laporte Oh that’s interesting.
Becky Worley And that speaks my theory.
Leo Laporte Yeah, because look at my background.
Natali Del Conte It’s a little busy I’ll say.
Leo Laporte But I do notice what I do with our guests in studio, I do put red velvet drapes behind them and very simple background.
Shira Lazar I have no art on my walls and I’ve lived here for two years.
Leo Laporte Yeah, you got the same thing going on Shira.
Shira Lazar I am like a guy – I am like a guy the way I live.
Leo Laporte Well, let me ask you – do you have a red leather sofa?
Shira Lazar No.
Leo Laporte Okay, because that’s the guy’s sofa.
Shira Lazar But you should see my fridge.
Leo Laporte Empty?
Natali Del Conte Condiments only.
Shira Lazar [indiscernible] (1:15:42) pickles and then...
Leo Laporte Pickles, yeah pickles.
Shira Lazar ...wine and liquor.
Leo Laporte Pickles and condiments, that’s the guy – the guy fridge.
Shira Lazar All right.
Becky Worley Be sure if you subscribed to Blippy, I’d already know all this.
Leo Laporte That’s what we need, refrigerator feed. I got it the next big thing. We’re going to take a break, we are going to compare Audible books and then come back with more news, this is this WEEK in TECH, we are glad you’re here, of course Audible is a sponsor, has been with us for, I think, three years now. What a great company, 75 – I just got the new number, 75,000 books, lectures, performances, radio shows. Great audio content. Of course the books are really why you go there. It’s your audio book store. And I listen all the time.
I am listening right now, you are going to laugh – you are going to mock me when I tell you this, but my wife was listening to this book and I just love it, she loved it, and she said, you got to listen, Christopher Buckley was William F. Buckley’s son, he wrote Thank You For Not Smoking and a bunch of other great stuff. Wrote a memoir of his mother and father when they passed away and I really, really like it.
But this is the beauty of it, because you’re listening in dead times, in the car, at the gym, cleaning house, walking the dog, you don’t – you can – it’s hard to describe but you feel like you can listen to a broader range of stuff you have more reading time. You can discover reading again, that’s what Francine Hardaway told me, she said I’d given up on reading and now thanks to Audible I’m reading again. Audible.com/twit2, that’s the URL to go to, to take a look at audible.com browse around, find a book you like and when you go to audible.com/twit2, you’ll be signing up for a platinum account, that’s two books a month and the first two are free, you can cancel anytime, so this is a way to get two free books frankly.
Sarah Silverman’s new book is out. Do you love Sarah Silverman, or is she too kind of scatological for you.
Natali Del Conte No, I like scatological. I can do that.
Leo Laporte You are going to like this then, her new book is called The Bedwetter, Stories of Courage, Redemption, and Pee.
Natali Del Conte Cute.
Leo Laporte I like her.
Shira Lazar That’s intriguing.
Leo Laporte It’s hard not to listen, look at the picture, I mean, she is very heroic.
Natali Del Conte Yeah.
Leo Laporte And it’s read by Sarah, but that’s just an example. I am sure that’s fairly adult so keep that in mind. Audible has all the best sellers, great science fiction collection, wonderful books you’re going to love and I invite you to try two on me, audible.com/twit2. They play on of course the iPad, the iPhone, iPods all of them, the Zune, the Kindle. Most GPS devices that play MP3s will also play Audible books, hundreds of platforms audible.com/twit2. Give them a try, I think you are going to like it. We thank them so much for their support of this WEEK in TECH.
Becky Worley Can I give you a quick audible plug, so…
Leo Laporte Yeah, would you?
Becky Worley So, you know the women who is 90 something and got the first iPad.
Leo Laporte Yeah.
Becky Worley She did it because she needed the magnification on the reader because she has got low vision. Well one in 28 Americans over the age of 40 has low vision. So audible.com, Kindle magnification, iPad magnification is revolutionary…
Leo Laporte I agree, my mom is 75 and she’d stopped reading. I gave her a Kindle, she made it the biggest text and she said I can read and she says my eyes don’t get tired and she is reading and reading and reading. I completely agree.
Becky Worley That’s nice. Also, I was reading Real Simple magazine this week and there was a plugin there for podcasters. It was tips to incent you to clean and this one woman said I only listen to podcasts while I am cleaning and I love them so much that it makes the cleaning go really fast, so there’s your podcasting plug.
Leo Laporte That’s true for me for audio books actually, and I listen to a lot of podcasts too. If you listen to podcasts audio books just give you give another kind of dimension you can add. You read Real Simple, really?
Becky Worley Oh, yeah.
Natali Del Conte Look at her house!
Leo Laporte It’s real, it’s simple.
Becky Worley It’s Real Simple. Ad have I told you my new exercise plan?
Leo Laporte No.
Natali Del Conte No.
Becky Worley I only let myself play iPhone games when I’m on the elliptical machine.
Leo Laporte Smart lady, smart.
Becky Worley So I have been doing like five hours a week of elliptical while playing Plants versus Zombies.
Leo Laporte Oh, yeah. See if you get hooked on Plants versus Zombies you’ll do anything to play. So if it’s just elliptical no problem.
Natali Del Conte But you can’t really play – oh no, we’re talking the iPad actually, because I have done some iPad games on the elliptical and it’s very hard with the accelerometer, I’ve almost fallen off.
Leo Laporte Well, you got to rest it on the thing, don’t you have a music stand or something that you can put it on?
Becky Worley Well, she’s got her own stand now. It’s getting bigger every week!
Leo Laporte Oh, she puts it on her belly! Well no wonder; you put it on the belly it’s not going to work.
Natali Del Conte No, you got to put it on the ledge. But if you’re doing something where you’re going to try and tip it you can’t do that on the elliptical. No one’s that coordinated, I don’ care who you are.
Leo Laporte Oh you can’t do that. No no no. And God Finger is very hard when you’re going on the elliptical because you’re bouncing up and down and it’s very hard to…
Natali Del Conte Oh, I hope you’re watching the video of this, because it’s…
Leo Laporte Have you played God Finger?
Natali Del Conte No.
Becky Worley It’s on my list…
Leo Laporte Don’t get – don’t, don’t. I play We Rule and God Finger which are basically the Farmville of iPad games. We Rule is a farm and you raise crops and stuff, that’s okay, because it doesn’t take a lot of attention. God Finger, you’re the giant finger that makes it rain, makes the sun shine. You have a planet, you have followers; they worship you. You could pick them up with your finger, drag them to other workplaces you can make them – and it’s, it’s not good. Don’t! Do yourself a favor.
Natali Del Conte You’ll never get that time back.
Leo Laporte It’s gone forever, it’s gone forever. There are iPad games that are very compelling though, I have to say. So you got, is it Plants versus Zombies your number one pick, Becky?
Becky Worley That’s been a complete time suck and then Diner Dash, stuff like that.
Leo Laporte That’s fun.
Natali Del Conte Oh, yeah Diner Dash.
Leo Laporte They have that on the iPad.
Becky Worley I take all recommendations people have for games; bworly at Twitter.
Leo Laporte Well be my friend on We Rule, and we can have a farm together.
Becky Worley Okay, will do.
Shira Lazar Let me know how that goes, you guys.
Leo Laporte Do any of you play Farmville?
Shira Lazar I’m not into Farmville, I started doing it. I barely take care of my own plants in person.
Leo Laporte Good. I’m impressed.
Shira Lazar Let alone virtually…
Leo Laporte I’m very impressed.
Natali Del Conte Nah, I’m too busy [indiscernible] (1:21:57) and reading social theory.
Shira Lazar [Indiscernible] and plants (1:21:59) for kids.
Leo Laporte Did you see, now this is going to be a killer app on iPad; Hulu is going to have a Hulu+, 10 bucks a month and I think they’re going to have an iPad app. Okay, here’s the question. Would you pay 10 bucks a month for Hulu?
Natali Del Conte Yeah, I would.
Leo Laporte You watch enough Hulu; it makes it worthwhile.
Natali Del Conte I do, yeah. But there’s two things I want from Hulu. I want The Daily Show back.
Leo Laporte It’s not there anymore?
Natali Del Conte It’s still not there.
Leo Laporte Bastards!
Natali Del Conte I know and I don’t want to be advertised to if I do have to pay $10.
Leo Laporte You’re right. In fact if they take the ads off; 10 bucks a month, no problem.
Natali Del Conte Right.
Leo Laporte But if I have to watch ads –
Natali Del Conte Yeah. I mean I do like Ragu, but you know; enough, already.
Leo Laporte Yeah.
Natali Del Conte Or Crest or Colgate or whatever.
Leo Laporte They do that on on-demand too and it drives me crazy. When I watch 30 Rock on demand in the sense that they don’t have enough ads, so it’s the same ad three times, it’s very annoying.
Natali Del Conte Yeah. And sometimes they don’t even –
Becky Worley I never complain about ads.
Leo Laporte Oh, yeah.
Becky Worley Because I like getting paid.
Leo Laporte Yeah, no, I’m not complaining.
Natali Del Conte Right, but this is a different way to get paid; directly from our viewers which I’d be okay with.
Leo Laporte Nothing wrong with that.
Natali Del Conte Yeah, that’s a different thing. That’s okay.
Shira Lazar There are some free –
Becky Worley And it’s interesting because Hulu says they made 100 million bucks –
Leo Laporte What?
Becky Worley Which is not enough for the networks, and so they’ve got to create…
Leo Laporte Wait a minute. They made 100 million and it’s not enough?
Shira Lazar Yes. That’s little. That’s small beans for the networks, the way they’re usually paid.
Leo Laporte Yeah, this is why I succeed. Because I would take – I’d take a 100th of that and be happy. ‘100 million is not enough.’
Shira Lazar The networks are greedy; [ph] counting (1:23:27) you have two of the biggest – or I mean three of the biggest ones owning Hulu. We have –
Leo Laporte But that’s what happened with TechTV is that we made – you couldn’t make enough money to make it worthwhile because it’s so expensive to do a channel.
Becky Worley It’s crazy expensive given the production. I mean what you excelled at, Leo, is organic growth –
Leo Laporte Gee.
Becky Worley – with minimal production cost.
Leo Laporte Thank you. That’s a very nice way to put it!
Natali Del Conte And none are these guys around here are union, right?
Becky Worley [indiscernible] radio! (1:23:53)
Leo Laporte No union, no, no. But I – you know what, I pay them union wages and I give them health and I give them retirement 401(k). I give them – they’re taken care of. I wouldn’t mind a union in here. That would be okay.
Becky Worley Hey, you are sending Dane to New York with me next week, c’mon!
Leo Laporte That’s right. He’s going to come hang out with you, learn how the big guys do it so we can laugh.
Becky Worley I actually think what’s going to happen is he’s going to come to the set of GMA and he’s going to recognize that really everybody is just flying by the seat of their pants.
Leo Laporte Nobody knows what they’re doing. Nobody does.
Natali Del Conte Yeah, that’s my experience.
Leo Laporte So according to paidcontent.org, online people watch video on 2.6 different devices a week. Young adults, age 18-34, watch on 3.3 different devices a week, TV, PC, iPhone, MP3 player. They estimate that by 2015, people will use four or five different devices each week. So that’s a –
Shira Lazar I thought we were simplifying! I thought we were trying to simplify how many [ph] devices (1:24:50) we have.
Leo Laporte Yeah, isn’t that interesting? And it’s one of the things driving our strategy, which is to get on as many devices as possible so that you can wake up to your iPhone but get up and watch it on the TV, then get in the car and – you can watch it everywhere. I think that’s a sensible strategy. Hulu –
Shira Lazar It’s content open.
Leo Laporte Ah, let’s see, so Hulu.com
Shira Lazar Would you pay? Would you pay for Hulu?
Leo Laporte 10 bucks, I don’t know. No ads, I might. How about you, Shira?
Shira Lazar I don’t – I mean there’s always going to be another way to get it for free unless the – yeah, the content is high quality enough for the shows I want to see.
Leo Laporte Get ready. According to Hulu, they’re going to increase the ad load at first to 12 ads per 45 minutes show. That’s 12 ads an hour.
Shira Lazar [Indiscernible] (1:25:39) viewing experience. Who wants to watch a show with 12 ads?
Leo Laporte Then eventually 24 ads in a 45 minutes show. I encourage them to do that. Please.
Becky Worley At that point you really should do something totally novel; watch it on TV.
Leo Laporte Yeah, really.
Becky Worley I mean it’s just weird how it all just starts circling back up.
Leo Laporte But, well, they are pushing people to TiVo it and watch it on TV and skip the ads.
Shira Lazar If you only watch on computer 10 bucks is nothing. I mean the average cable bill is something like 80 or $90 a month. It’s crazy. I’d like to find out what that is.
Becky Worley That’s true.
Leo Laporte Let’s not forget that the competition for all this stuff is ‘stealing’; bit torrent. That you can get it without ads in hi def, downloading it, and that's the competition. That's what they have to face, right.
Shira Lazar I still think it’s easier to go – to go to my one destination, Hulu, who I trust. It has everything I need right when I want to see it. I don’t have the patience and time to see if I can go get the torrents.
Leo Laporte No, that’s what the only thing protecting these guys is; that bit torrent is still hard to use. All right, how about this? YouTube has taken down all the Hitler movies.
Becky Worley Oh yeah, can you back me into the story because I kind of kept reading the headlines and by the way it’s YouTube’s fifth birthday yesterday.
Leo Laporte Happy Birthday YouTube.
Natali Del Conte Happy Birthday…
Leo Laporte [Indiscernible] (1:26:58).
Natali Del Conte Well, it’s – I actually called them this week because the network wanted to do something about this. It’s the fifth anniversary of the day that the first video was uploaded internally but it wasn’t public.
Leo Laporte When it – yeah, because it…
Natali Del Conte It wasn’t public until May of 2005.
Leo Laporte I remember I was doing Call for Help in Toronto and Amber MacArthur about four and a half years ago said, ‘oh there’s this new site where you can put videos of people getting kicked in the crotch’ and I thought ‘this is stupid’. And then we interviewed – was it Steve Chen? We interviewed one of the founders early on before they were bought by Google and I asked him and I said ‘how are you going to survive with bandwidth costs and piracy issues’ and I think in the back of his head he was thinking ‘Google, the Google’, it’s the Google life-preserver. So, one of the ways that YouTube protects itself is they support DMCA takedowns. If you request a takedown, you can. So you’ve all seen these far too many parody rants where they take the clip of the movie, The Downfall which is the rise – the end of the Third Reich and who is the wonderful – is it Bruno – is it Bruno Ganz? Who is the wonderful actor who is…
Natali Del Conte The actor…
Leo Laporte …playing Hitler? So that's a commercial film. And what they do is they take off – they subtitle it and it’s ‘I’m mad about whatever’ the PS3 being…
Natali Del Conte Like no copy and paste on the iPhone.
Leo Laporte [indecipherable mock-German ranting]
Natali Del Conte Raargh! That’s not okay.
Leo Laporte So they’re taking them down now. So you’re not going to see any Hitler parodies unless you…
Becky Worley You create your own…
Leo Laporte I don’t know?
Becky Worley …original. Act it out.
Leo Laporte Let me see, here’s one.
Becky Worley There’s one, this one’s hilarious.
[Audio from Downfall is heard; Leo reads the phony subtitles in a bad German accent]
Leo Laporte ‘There are several Hitler Downfall parodies on YouTube we are able to watch. Unfortunately we have no way of knowing how much longer they will be there. Everybody is looking. By the end of the week, it is possible YouTube will have removed all of the Downfall parody videos.’ ‘I am sure the one about Michal Jackson’s death is still up and available.’ Then they look at each other. ‘It seems that Constantin Film AG has submitted a copyright violation. YouTube had no choice but to take it down.’ Uh oh. Hitler’s about to lose it. Oh, the slow burn is what I like.
Becky Worley The shaking fingers.
Leo Laporte ‘Zey haf taken down zer Michael Jackson video?’
Natali Del Conte He’s going to lose it.
Leo Laporte ‘Everyone who’s submitted a takedown notice to Youtube on behalf of Constantin Films AG please leave the room now.’ Anyway I won’t go on, I’ll leave this to you.
Becky Worley Yeah, let’s not give Hitler more attention.
Leo Laporte Yeah, yeah really, geez.
Natali Del Conte So these were really popular, but apparently they were also quite offensive to some people in general.
Leo Laporte Well, it’s also somebody’s content.
Natali Del Conte It is – it is a copyright violation but also I – it hadn’t even occurred to me that it would be offensive in this way, I mean…
Leo Laporte I know. Is it is because it’s offensive?
Natali Del Conte Hitler’s always offensive.
Leo Laporte Is it because it’s offensive or it’s because it’s a copyright violation?
Shira Lazar I’ve just been reading the headlines all week thinking oh good, they’ve gotten [indiscernible] (01:30:10).
Leo Laporte Yeah, I was sick of them, I didn’t want to see any more of them.
Shira Lazar I had no idea what the context was!
Leo Laporte I didn’t find it offensive, but – I mean it’s a movie…
Shira Lazar It was the producers from the film that came and just – and went to YouTube and alerted YouTube.
Leo Laporte Yeah.
Shira Lazar So I don’t think they found it offensive, obviously, since they made the movie...
Leo Laporte No, they get fed up.
Shira Lazar Yeah, they just got fed up of people remixing their content.
Leo Laporte Nobody’s ever going to be able to see that film again without thinking about Michael Jackson. It’s probably not what they had intended.
I think we’ve covered all the stories. Anything else anybody wants to talk about? I hear that Natali Del Conte is expecting.
Natali Del Conte That’s not a topic; that’s not up for discussion actually. It’s just the way it is.
Leo Laporte Stop the press, stop the press! No, it’s so great to see Natali. Thank you for coming in, thank you for brining mom, nice to see you again, I hope you enjoyed the wine.
Natali Del Conte Thank you for having us.
Leo Laporte Yeah. Natali Del Conte does many things, but you can find out more about her on her website natalidelconte.com. You could follow her on Twitter, natalidelconte.
Natali Del Conte Yeah, no ‘e’.
Leo Laporte No ‘e’ on Twitter because they – you ran out of letters.
Natali Del Conte No ‘e’ Natali.
Leo Laporte Oh, no ‘e’ on Natali?
Natali Del Conte No ‘e’ Natali. Yeah.
Leo Laporte Okay. And we’ll see you on CNET all the time, of course, and on CBS.
Natali Del Conte Yeah, my daily show is called Loaded, and this week I’m filling in for Tom who’s somewhere in the Mediterranean or something like that.
Leo Laporte He is in Haaii. He was going to go to IFA, the big cellphone conference in…
Natali Del Conte Oh, I thought he was joking about rerouting to Hawaii.
Leo Laporte No, he was going to go to Barcelona and because of the…
Natali Del Conte And he really did reroute to Hawaii.
Leo Laporte Well, they cancelled IFA because of the ash-cloud. And so he said well, the hell with it; we’re going to Hawaii.
Natali Del Conte Oh, okay.
Leo Laporte So that’s where he’s right now.
Natali Del Conte Well, I’ll be sitting in the big boy chair then at Buzz out Loud this week in San Francisco.
Leo Laporte Awesome, that’s great. And of course Tom is going to be joining us June 1.
Natali Del Conte I am aware of that.
Leo Laporte We stole him away.
Natali Del Conte Yeah.
Leo Laporte Stole him away. Shira Lazar is the digital correspondence for CBS and you can read her stuff at cbsnews.com. Always a pleasure to see you Shira. Come up and see us sometime I hope.
Shira Lazar I know. Thanks for having me.
Leo Laporte Love having you. And of course my old friend Becky Worley. Known her since the days of TechTV where she was the launch producer for both The Screen Savers and Call for Help. And now is a GMA covering tech for ABC. Thank you for being here, Becky. I appreciate it.
Becky Worley Pleasure, Leo.
Leo Laporte You can watch the show, we do it live every Sunday afternoon at 6:00 p.m. Pacific – I’m sorry, 6:00 p.m. Eastern, 3:00 p.m. Pacific, that’s 2200 UTC at live.twit.tv. We then take the carefully produced video, bleep out all the expletives and put the audio and video on iTunes and the Zune Marketplace and anywhere you could download a podcast. We also have a channel on TWiT at youtube.com/ – I’m sorry, a channel on YouTube at youtube.com/twit or find out more about all the places you can get the show at TWiT.tv. We’re glad you were here. Thank you for joining us, we’ll see you next time. Another TWiT is in the can!
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