TWiT 250/Transcript

From The Official TWiT Wiki
Jump to: navigation, search
Episode 250


This transcript is provided by our friends at Pods in Print

Leo Laporte Audio bandwidth for this WEEK in TECH is provided by AOL Music and, where you can get free mp3s, exclusive interviews and more. Video bandwidth for TWiT is provided by Cachefly at

This is TWiT, This WEEK in TECH, episode 250 recorded May 30, 2010: It's No Abu Dhabi.

This WEEK in TECH is brought to you by GoToMeeting. Reduce costs, improve efficiencies and help your company’s bottom line with GoToMeeting. For your free 30-day trial, visit

And by To download two free audio books of your choice, go to; and don’t forget to follow Audible on Twitter at audible_com.

And by the fast and easy way to publish a high quality website or blog. For a free trial and 10% off your new account go to

It’s time for TWiT the show that covers all the technology news and boy I am having fun already and we haven’t – we’ve only just begun because it’s kind of a TechTV reunion today. First let me welcome to the studio Mr. Jim Louderback of Revision3, he is the CEO over there. It’s good to see you Jim.

Jim Louderback It’s good to see you Leo.

Leo Laporte Jim was – what were you editorial director at TechTV?

Jim Louderback Yeah, something like that.

Leo Laporte Vice President and Editorial Director, something like that.

Jim Louderback Yeah I was there at the start, as you were.

Leo Laporte At the very beginning.

Jim Louderback As you were.

Leo Laporte Yeah, the good old days and also joining us from his – are you in San Francisco, [indiscernible] (02:05) San Francisco?

Kevin Rose Yes.

Leo Laporte Kevin Rose, who also started at TechTV as a little tech guy.

Kevin Rose That’s right. I got your coffee for you every morning.

Leo Laporte No.

Kevin Rose Sugar, some cream.

Leo Laporte BS.

Jim Louderback Filter fresh.

Leo Laporte Never. But Kevin did make his breakout on the Screen Savers when he discovered a bug in Microsoft’s Windows. It was that I – that messaging system that they had.

Kevin Rose Yeah, net send or whatever it was.

Leo Laporte Net send, yeah, and he told us. We contacted Microsoft, they said it’s not a bug it’s a feature so we said well Kevin why don’t you talk about it on the show. And the rest as they say is history. He became the dark tipper.

Kevin Rose Oh geez.

Leo Laporte And then on to bigger and better things as the CEO of Digg and also a Diggnation the show on Revision3 and Systm and other shows. Digg is having a big rollout so we’re going to ask you about Digg [ph] forward (03:01) and you can tell us what you can tell us.

Kevin Rose Cool

Leo Laporte No more I won’t put you on the spot. Also your former co-host from The Screen Savers and I am very pleased to say our newest hire at TWiT Ms. Sarah Lane.

Sarah Lane Hey, everybody.

Leo Laporte

                      So great to have you and Sarah joins the team, June 1st Tuesday. We’re going to be doing a couple of shows with you the Green Tech today show which you and Kiki will host. 

Sarah Lane Right.

Leo Laporte And you and I – I’m so pleased, we haven’t done a show together in five years.

Sarah Lane I am so excited about this. I wasn’t kidding in my blog when I talked about iPad [ph] apps/at the pool side (03:38) Leo.

Leo Laporte Yeah, so you’ve been playing with the iPad we – we’re going to do a show called iPad today Sarah and I will host that. And you didn’t have an iPad so I had to give you one.

Sarah Lane Yes, and it’s great because I am like the first one I know who has the 3G because everybody else just got the first one

Leo Laporte You – you were smart.

Sarah Lane So I am kind of a cooler person. I love my iPad maybe unhealthily so.

Leo Laporte Have you played We Rule yet?

Sarah Lane No.

Leo Laporte It’s like Farmville for the iPad. Do not.

Sarah Lane I won’t, I don’t like Farmville at all.

Kevin Rose I’ve spent like $100 on that game.

Leo Laporte You – you play – oh that’s right Kevin you do play We Rule.

Kevin Rose Oh absolutely.

Leo Laporte Yeah. And that finally brings us to our other new hire.

Kevin Rose Does this mean I am not the newest now?

Leo Laporte You’re not the newest.

Kevin Rose I am not the newbie anymore.

Leo Laporte He’s the second newest hire and Mr. Tom Merritt whose show Tech News Today launches on Tuesday with…

Tom Merritt Becky Worley.

Leo Laporte Yes!

Tom Merritt Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Mr. Oland Monday and Friday.

Leo Laporte So exciting.

Tom Merritt And Dr. Kiki joining us most Thursdays so….

Leo Laporte This is exciting.

Tom Merritt Yeah, it’s going to be fabulous.

Leo Laporte I am so happy about this.

Tom Merritt We got some special guests booked for the first week, some folks you might know from other shows that I’ve done but no [ph] scene at that point (04:53). So don’t get too freaked out. But yeah, looking forward Tuesday at 2:30 pacific, 5:30 eastern check it out. We’ve been putting a lot of blood, sweat and tears into getting ready for this thing. So I can’t wait to actually get it going.

Leo Laporte I was looking for a woman who is as macho as Molly Wood and I think Becky qualifies.

Tom Merritt They both played Rugby.

Leo Laporte They both – they’re both tough as nails.

Tom Merritt Yeah.

Leo Laporte Strongly opinionated.

Tom Merritt No one can replace Molly Wood but I am very, very happy to have Becky…

Leo Laporte Yeah I’m really thrilled.

Tom Merritt ...because that’s a woman who knows some stuff.

Leo Laporte However, she is not a treacherous little ball of steel like Sarah Lane is.

Tom Merritt No, no, no…

Sarah Lane I wouldn’t take Becky. I would not take Becky.

Leo Laporte No, I tried to take Becky, she took me down two out of three.

Sarah Lane I mean – I am treacherous with people [indiscernible] (05:38).

Leo Laporte No, Becky is tough. Becky was the first producer of The Screen Savers and Call For Help.

Tom Merritt And Call For Help, yeah.

Leo Laporte She launched both those shows and she and I had an interesting symbiotic relationship. She was in my [ph] ear (5:51) for many years.

Tom Merritt Yeah, that’s true. Yeah, I am looking forward to both – everybody.

Leo Laporte So exciting, so exciting

Tom Merritt You always at TechTV you’d always give Becky right of way. She was like the steam ship coming through that you had to just move to the side.

Leo Laporte Well, Tom I think you sent us a list of people you’d like to work with, Sarah was one of them but you said and here’s like the long shot was Becky Worley.

Tom Merritt Yeah, Becky was near the [ph] emphasis she was (06:13) doing the ABC stuff, I was like ah we can’t get her.

Leo Laporte There’s no way you can get her.

Tom Merritt We got Becky.

Kevin Rose That’s awesome.

Leo Laporte Well, it’s a testament to you and I’m just really exciting.

Tom Merritt [ph] And we got Tara (06:22).

Leo Laporte So watch out Jim, here comes TWiT.

Jim Louderback When are you hiring me?

Leo Laporte Anytime, the door is open. No, we have actually now officially outgrown as you can tell because you are in here - outgrown not only the studio but the entire building and I think the next step very soon is going to be to move to a larger studio….

Jim Louderback I appreciate the IBM PS2 3286 you gave me for my computer.

Leo Laporte You like that?

Jim Louderback Yeah, it’s going to be very useful.

Leo Laporte Hey, it was mine for years.

Jim Louderback Yeah.

Tom Merritt What Sarah gets an iPad and you get an old IBM?

Jim Louderback I already had an iPad so...

Leo Laporte He wanted Windows.

Jim Louderback I wanted Windows 286.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Jim Louderback That was my request.

Leo Laporte Did you know that we actually just crossed the 20th anniversary of Windows 3.0.

Jim Louderback Right.

Leo Laporte It was last week.

Kevin Rose Wow, that’s insane.

Leo Laporte Do you – Kevin you don’t even remember Windows 2.0.

Kevin Rose Listen I – so, my first version was 3.0 but I have Windows 1.0 sealed in box in the computer history museum down next to Google.

Leo Laporte You mean that’s yours? That’s your copy?

Kevin Rose It says on loan from Kevin Rose [indiscernible] (7:22)

Tom Merritt Nice.

Leo Laporte Hah! Where did you get it?

Kevin Rose I bought it off of eBay believe it or not, like about – maybe five or six years ago.

Sarah Lane I remember Kevin, before you I guess – before you gave it to the Computer Museum you had it in your house like over in like where your tea was and I picked it up and you were like put that down. [indiscernible] (7:42)

Leo Laporte It’s in the box sealed. Because you’re starting to open it.

Kevin Rose You were going to open it up and try and install it.

Sarah Lane No, no, no, he didn’t even want me to touch it. It’s sealed and I said what’s this.

Kevin Rose It’s sealed; it’s like a mint condition comic book.

Leo Laporte That’s like an original Jabba the Hutt in plastic, you don’t want to mess with that.

Kevin Rose Right, exactly, it stays on the shelf. You don’t touch it.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I can understand.

Kevin Rose Gets dusted every once in a while and that’s it.

Jim Louderback So I did my thesis in grad school on Windows 1.0 when it was in beta.

Leo Laporte I remember you telling me that.

Jim Louderback The most amazing thing about Windows 1.0 was that you could open up 16 copies of the clock without crashing the computer.

Leo Laporte 16.

Jim Louderback And that was radical. That was amazing.

Leo Laporte That was the test

Tom Merritt I had Windows 286, that IBM PS2 is actually sitting upstairs, I brought it in.

Leo Laporte There is an IBM PS2 upstairs?

Tom Merritt Yeah, and I had Windows 286 on disk that I loaned to Kevin Reno. Do you remember him, the IT guy?

Jim Louderback Oh yeah.

Tom Merritt He still has it. He says it’s in my garage somewhere, I’ll get it back to you. So, Kevin I am still waiting.

Leo Laporte Actually that PS2 is a chew toy for your dog [ph] who you plan to bring in, right? [indiscernible] (8:36). So a lot to talk about this week and actually I think you all will have something to say about the Facebook press conference they had this week. Mark Zuckerberg said alright alright. He seems like the kind of guy who – and maybe like me too – thinks it’s easier to ask forgiveness than to ask for permission.

Tom Merritt Yeah, I remember working with you.

Leo Laporte So, basically what Facebook keeps doing is they keep changing their privacy policy and then the users keep complaining and Facebook says oh my bad. And they changed it again now to – there is three big buttons that let you kind of default it. But they didn’t do the thing I would have liked them to do which is to make everything private and then you opt in, you choose. Is that going to happen, Tom?

Tom Merritt No, because Facebook wants to give you as little privacy as possible, that’s it. The less privacy you opt into, the more money they make.

Leo Laporte That’s really the issue, isn’t it?

Tom Merritt And so they’re bowing to pressure here by saying okay we’ve had enough beating up in the press and from our users, we need to adjust this. But they’re going to adjust it as little as they think they can get away with.

Leo Laporte Right.

Kevin Rose Why do you think it’s tied to money though? Why do you think it’s the more money they make the less [ph] fighting/privacy (09:50)?

Tom Merritt Well and – you’re closer to this kind of business model than me Kevin, so maybe I have a misimpression but it seems like the more information they have in their database to sell to advertisers the more money they make. And so it’s in their interest to encourage you to try to allow some of that to be public so that they can monetize it.

Leo Laporte Well it’s more than that though, isn’t it? I mean they want to be like Twitter, they look at – isn’t they are a little bit of Twitter envy, Kevin, that they say, oh look how – look how easy it is for Twitter, all the different ways Twitter could monetize its user base that we can’t.

Kevin Rose Yeah. So, I think there is a couple of things going on. So I will say this and try and not namedropping or anything like that but I happen to…

Leo Laporte I know you know Zuck.

Kevin Rose I went out to dinner with him like a week and a half ago and we were chatting. I was like, hey so what’s going on with the privacy stuff, blah, blah, blah and one of – his point to me was that what they are really pushing for is that he doesn’t want to become stale and the way that he looks at is that the world is evolving into more social sharing of information. The default is now more public sharing. He sees this with Twitter, with a bunch of new startups and he is like, how can I continue to evolve and embrace that stuff and hopefully make the experience better for the users.

So I will give an example, we talked about one of their features they have called Instant Personalization which is – basically what it does is as you go out and you fan different things, let’s say you fan like different [indiscernible] (11:08) you like things like that, they can provide third-party websites, they will pass to them your user ID so when you visit that site they can go on and pull only the public information about you, so anything that a search engine could pull or that anybody else could pull. So I will give you an example, if you were to go today and you land on Pandora. You would actually get a custom experience. Even though you hadn’t logged into Pandora…

Leo Laporte I hate that.

Kevin Rose …Pandora does a lot, talked to Facebook…

Leo Laporte I freaking hate that.

Kevin Rose [indiscernible] (11:38), I agree with you, I agree with you but hold on a sec, so it’s at the top, you know you can opt out blah, blah, blah. It goes in and pulls all the public data that any search engine will be able to get and then they bring in automatic recommendations of using a startup plan for you. Now, here’s the thing. I said to him like, ah that feels kind of weird, blah, blah, blah and I think he knows everyone thinks it’s a little bit weird but he doesn’t want to – his whole thing is that it’s really an experiment and they want to continue to push the envelope. I don’t think he’s [indiscernible] (12:03) something like a super [indiscernible] (12:06) you are like I want to make more money…

Leo Laporte You know what it feels like to me this is the problem is that Facebook was private to begin with. Facebook made a promise to me we will keep it private unless you say otherwise. You tell us who you want to share with. That was the promise and I feel it’s like a friend that I went and I told something secret to and then he blabbed it and they said, oh my bad. So I go back and said, okay, I understand you made a mistake. He blabs it again.

Kevin Rose Some of the reason – the reason you feel bad is because they walk you through that wizard that essentially said like default to public, right…

Leo Laporte The initial promise was 100% private and they changed it in such a way that even I couldn’t figure out. I mean even Zuck couldn’t figure out. His own pictures were published. And he said, oh nobody would mind that.

Kevin Rose Yeah, that’s the problem.

Leo Laporte That’s the problem.

Kevin Rose It’s not really – in my mind, it’s not the fact that he want to trial this stuff and it’s even of the fact that he wants to default all new users [ph] to be public (13:05) because if he does want to do that, that’s fine.

Leo Laporte If they start fresh but they don’t call it Facebook. You don’t call it Facebook, you call it something else. You say we are going to do Facebook Rev2 where everything is public but it’s too late to do that with Facebook. That was the promise.

Tom Merritt But it’s still true that he makes more money the more information is made public, is that…

Leo Laporte That might be his incentive but I am – who knows who peoples’ – what peoples’ intents are, right?

Tom Merritt Well, I – yeah, I hear what’s Kevin saying about that may or may not be what’s really driving things and I think that’s right but it’s – that is if…

Sarah Lane But if it wasn’t then we would be able to opt in all of the stuff, not be opting out.

Leo Laporte What – that’s my question.

Kevin Rose Hold on, hold on, hold on…

Sarah Lane That’s why it’s…

Leo Laporte That’s my question. Why doesn’t Facebook just say it’s private unless you say otherwise, Kevin? Why don’t they do that?

Sarah Lane Yeah.

Kevin Rose Here’s the strategy behind the scenes and this isn’t something that he told me, this is something that I am kind of drawing the lines [ph] between everything (13:51). The public data is very useful data.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Kevin Rose Not to say that they are going to monetize like the actual pages but the idea that they can do – once data is public like you have with Twitter with all the data being public you can do things like extract – extrapolate like trends out of that, so real time trending information about news articles, you can do more real time search. There was a bunch of things you can do, so if Facebook ever wants to get to the world of real time search they are going to need all this data to be public, they can’t take all the peoples’ private data and use that to fuel a real time search engine. They have to have public data, right.

Sarah Lane Kevin should be a Twitter or a Facebook spokesman.

Leo Laporte Yes, well that's one thing that on TWiT that we were talking about with Jeff Jarvis and Gina Trapani. Jeff said why doesn’t Facebook – actually it was Jay Rosen, said why doesn’t Facebook have an ombudsman, a public face? Part of the problem with this is that Facebook hasn’t explained itself well that Mark isn’t really great at explaining this, Elliot Schrage is worse and so it’s a PR problem as much as anything else, right.

Kevin Rose Absolutely, for sure. And this is like you said earlier Leo, the options have to be clear and you have to – anyone – my mom should be able to go to Facebook, go into the privacy settings and understand exactly what’s going on, and that is not the case.

Leo Laporte Well, this new thing though, do you think it’s made a step in that direction? It seems that…

Kevin Rose I haven’t played with it since it…

Leo Laporte Yes, it’s not rolled out yet and of course I don’t have a Facebook page to try it but…

Tom Merritt That’s right. You really did delete your Facebook page.

Leo Laporte Oh yeah and I ain’t going back.

Tom Merritt It’s gone.

Leo Laporte To be honest, I feel like this is a bad girlfriend who three times now has revealed stuff that I said this is secret and I am not going to give her a fourth chance. I just don’t think it’s right.

Jim Louderback And you know what’s interesting is a lot of people say that oh you know if you are younger, if you are in the 20s, you are more open, you really don’t care about all the…

Leo Laporte Danah Boyd says that, that young people have a different point of view [indiscernible] (15:38).

Jim Louderback But you know what, that I was chatting with a guy over the weekend who used to work at Common Sense Media, just left, which is a media company that helps parents talk to their kids about all the stuff and they have done research recently that shows that as people are getting older in their 20s, they are starting to become more and more concerned about the data that they are sharing online. Well but…

Leo Laporte Too late, their drunk pictures are already out there.

Jim Louderback You know what they are going to start deleting their Facebook accounts as well. The idea that it’s just a bunch of old people that are worried now is not necessarily true.

Tom Merritt I saw some posts like that about some of that research that said actually it’s the young people who are more concerned with the privacy issues. They are more concerned with the fact that stuff that they made private isn’t become public without their knowledge.

Leo Laporte Jim, what are you doing?

Jim Louderback You got to see something really scary here. Go to

Leo Laporte Now, this is a scary site.

Jim Louderback This is a scary site because it uses the Facebook API and allows you to search public status updates for things like what I just did, cheated on my boyfriend, they have a bunch of suggested searches too.

Sarah Lane That’s also a really dumb update to make, you know, that update you are making but then…

Leo Laporte That’s what I tell kids, I tell my kids is…

Sarah Lane If you went to the strip club, maybe Facebook is just a terrible place to talk about it, you know, to [indiscernible] (16:53).

Leo Laporte I tell my kids if you put it on the Internet anywhere, Facebook or anywhere think of it as public, don’t put anything on the Internet you wouldn’t want friends, family, teachers, future employers to see because unfortunately there is no way of guaranteeing this with bugs and so forth. Aaron says I just cheated on my amazing boyfriend, he doesn’t deserve it at all. Now poor Aaron does not know that this is public. Little does she know that it is also going out on a major podcast and everybody is seeing it.

Jim Louderback Or even something like hate my job which is what I was searching for you now. I mean that’s – people put that up all the time.

Leo Laporte But your future employers going to see that.

Jim Louderback Right, exactly.

Tom Merritt I just searched drunk…

Jim Louderback Or your current employer.

Leo Laporte Yeah or your current employer. Yeah that’s a good point.

Jim Louderback I mean it is scary. I had spent some time with this site and I feel kind of dirty having done it but it’s scary.

Leo Laporte Well, what is interesting is this is using the APIs that has been published. This is published.

Jim Louderback This is all public information.

Leo Laporte So that’s my problem is A, normal people can’t figure out what’s public and not; B, they are willing to say okay everything I put here is public, Facebook’s much more useful if you want to put secrets in there; and C, I don’t feel like I could trust Facebook to do the right thing. I think they made a big step. One of the things they did today – this week which was really good is they gave you one button click to get out of that whole application, the whole Pandora thing, but Facebook is so useful to people that it’s going to be hard for them to quit. I think that’s really part of the bottom line.

Tom Merritt I think the positive thing from last week is that Facebook said, you know what we are changing these settings and they are going to stay that way. We are not going to flip it again, thus the biggest violation that they had done. I think other stuff is excusable for this reason or that. Other people may disagree with me but changing something that you had selected to be private to public wasn’t excusable and I am glad that they made that clear like we are not going to do that.

Leo Laporte Kevin, you are kind of in the same boat here because Digg is from what I have seen on the Digg 4.0 stuff that TechCrunch published is moving towards a more public facing Twitter like thing. There was an accusation in the Wall Street Journal that you might be giving information to advertisers…

Kevin Rose That’s [indiscernible] (18:53) like that was – I don’t know how they got that wrong, but yeah. I – the second I saw that in the journal, I went and called our ad salespeople and…

Leo Laporte That must have freaked you out, because that’s what you don’t want.

Kevin Rose Yeah, it was like, I’ve never heard of this. And I called them up, like, no, no, no, they have it wrong, blah blah blah, and so yeah, that was wrong. But as far as…

Leo Laporte But you understand what’s going on at Facebook because you have the same kind of things that you need to – now, Digg has never been private, so you don’t have that issue.

Kevin Rose Never been private. Everything – submissions, comments, Diggs, everything that you do within the site has always been public.

Leo Laporte So you don’t have to worry about that?

Kevin Rose We don’t even have a setting to go private. So we can’t even set it there if you want to.

Leo Laporte Right. I have to say, when I looked at that video, was that leaked out? What happened with that? Was that something you intended to see?

Kevin Rose I had a feeling it was going to. Because we created a video that we wanted to send out to publishers. And we sent it out to a couple of hundred different publishers.

Leo Laporte Including TechCrunch?

Kevin Rose Yeah, TechCrunch got their hands on it.

Leo Laporte You must have known, I mean come on.

Kevin Rose No, no, no, we knew absolutely it was going to go out, that’s why I wanted to make sure it’s a polished video and it wasn’t some hacked together screen job or something like that. I mean it’s going to happen. So yeah, basically it was announcing some of the new features that we’ll be rolling out in a couple of weeks when we go live with alpha, and I’ll come back to give you a demo.

Leo Laporte You have promised that we will get the first live demo, so…

Kevin Rose For sure, absolutely.

Leo Laporte Okay. I have to say though – and I’m not saying this because – to blow smoke because you’re a friend – but I really think that this is exactly where Digg needs to go. I would – I will use Digg much more because of it.

Kevin Rose Thanks, appreciate it.

Leo Laporte Can you kind of – I don’t know how much you want to talk about it, but can you kind of in a nutshell sum up what this changes? It makes it more like Twitter.

Kevin Rose Sure. I mean I think that when we look at Facebook being kind of semi-private and public and really – you’re not following tastemakers, you’re more following your friends, and then when we look at Twitter, which is completely open and public but – you get a little bit of everything. So if I’m following Tony Hawk, I get not only skateboarding links but status updates that say like, ‘I dropped my kids off at the park,’ which really I care about, I want to know how his cool skateboarding stuff, right?

Leo Laporte Right.

Kevin Rose So we look at Digg as this kind of place where we can be a little bit more of like just news and links, right? So the ability that one click spreads that story to all of your followers that you have within Digg, the ability to auto-submit stuff, so if you have a podcast, if you have a blog, you can claim your feed, your RSS feed in the news story, objects will come in with a title description, one Digg automatically and go out to your followers. And then when they Digg it, it’s kind of like a re-Tweet in a way but a little bit more efficient, so it’s a single button, and then it goes out to all of their followers.

So it’s a really efficient way for links to spread around throughout the Digg ecosystem. And it really gets away from – we’ve always had this one front page that – when people get on the front page of Digg, they say, wow, this is awesome, I got a ton of traffic, but only 120 or so stories per day actually make the front page.

So this is a way for us in creating that way for a [ph] Digg to (21:41) spread to your friends for it to actually gain a lot of traction without even having to make the front page. And of course if it does get enough traction, it will make the global Zeitgeist’s front page. But it’s a lot of stuff we’ve needed to do for a long time.

Jim Louderback You know why I like this? And before I was at Revision3, I was at PC Mag, I ran the website as editor-in-chief, we would always – first there was the Slashdot effect, where you try and get your story on Slashdot. And then there was Digg, where you work really hard to get on the front page of Digg. And if you did, it was a homerun. But you worked really, really, really hard for that one homerun, and everything else would get like this. And this, if it works – which I’m pretty sure it will, these guys are great – will allow you to have many more stories that maybe won’t get as much traffic, but will really start getting really, really good traffic. Is that right, Kevin, where it’s not like a couple of homeruns and everything else is going to be really small, there will be a lot of sort of really mid range hits?

Kevin Rose Yeah, so – exactly. And that’s what we’re looking for. We’re trying to really service kind of a long tail of content. So that if you come in and you’re really into knitting and you Digg a knitting article and it spreads to your knitting followers and it spreads without that little community inside of Digg, you will get all of that traffic, whereas that story would never normally make the front page of Digg today.

Leo Laporte You know, I take full credit for this, I just want to let you know, this was my idea. Two years ago – you probably don’t remember, Kevin, but I said, the only problem with Digg is, I don’t care what 90% of the Diggers think is important. I want to follow what the top – that my friends think is important. I want to see what they Digg. I want to see what Jim and Tom and Sarah and Kevin Digg. And I asked you, I begged you, I said there’s got to be some way that I could say, just these people, their Diggs. And that’s really what you’ve done.

Kevin Rose That’s what’s coming in, we’re calling it My News, it’s like the new default…

Leo Laporte Well, you should call it Leo’s, but okay, My News.

Kevin Rose We’ll call it Leo News, then…

Leo Laporte Yeah, would you please?

Tom Merritt When you say it, it’ll be…

Kevin Rose [indiscernible] (23:31) your little icon in the upper…

Leo Laporte And I do want to point out that in the video, you are following only one person, and it’s me.

Kevin Rose That’s right.

Leo Laporte So – but this to me is exactly – is all Digg needed to do was let me choose whose Diggs I pay attention to, that gets rid of all the kind of background noise from people I don’t care about, who are Digging up the top ten ways to – whatever. And it’s like Twitter, where I follow exactly who I want and I get their links. That’s what’s really valuable about Twitter.

Jim Louderback Did doing Pownce help you with this at all, Kevin? I mean did you bring any lessons over?

Kevin Rose Yeah, absolutely. I mean each one of these whole things, I mean I’ve made a ton of mistakes at Digg and Pownce and you name it. And I think that that’s the fun thing about starting new companies, is you always learn something new. So there’s little bits in Pownce that are making their way into this. Actually, we follow the Twitter directory that I created. A lot of that technology on how we rank suggested users and categories, a lot of that is going to be built right into Digg, so, yeah.

Leo Laporte So I’m going to get a T-shirt that says Digg 4.0, it’s my idea, right? It was my idea. So this is out in a couple of weeks?

Kevin Rose Yeah, the alpha’s going to go live in about two weeks.

Leo Laporte All right. No, I think this is – to me, when I looked at and watched that video, I said that’s exactly what I want from Digg. And it will be so much more useful. In fact, it will be kind of how I use Twitter, and it’s something that I’ll use a lot more I think than not to blow – again, not to blow smoke, but I’m really pleased with these changes.

Tom Merritt The key is just getting your friends to use it. Once you’ve got that going, then it becomes incredibly useful.

Leo Laporte Right, right, right. Well, in fact, I always thought it was funny that whoever did that video was following me, because truthfully, I don’t Digg a lot of stuff. So that really isn’t going to be very active – wasn’t going to be a very active feed. But now it’s going to be a much more active feed because I will, absolutely.

Jim Louderback Well, and also, as people create content --

Leo Laporte It’s automatic.

Jim Louderback It’s great to be able to serve your own RSS feeds into it --

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Jim Louderback And have it show up there. So I think you guys will do really well. Revision3 will do really well with that too.

Leo Laporte We’ll put our stuff there. It will be kind of a little FriendFeed-y in that sense, huh?

Jim Louderback Yeah, I mean I’m psyched. We’ve got feeds for different things that we don’t even expose to anybody. And I’m putting like clips from Diggnation or clips from Techzilla and I’m putting that stuff up there. That will be great.

Leo Laporte So we didn’t – I didn’t mean to turn this into a big ad for Digg 4 but --

Kevin Rose It’s all right. I appreciate it.

Tom Merritt I hate Digg 4. There we go. We got some balance.


Leo Laporte No, but since we got you on, I think it’s good to ask you about it and we will get you back when you were to roll it out.

Kevin Rose Yeah, sure. It’ll be the first demo.

Leo Laporte Full demo, that’s exciting. Thank you, Kevin, for doing that.

Kevin Rose Yeah.

Leo Laporte All right, let’s take a break. We’re going to come back with more tech news. I know you all saw Sex and the City. And we’d love to get your review of that.

Sarah Lane Wooo!


Leo Laporte Did you see it?

Sarah Lane Yeah.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Sarah Lane I didn’t pay money for my ticket though.

Leo Laporte Okay.

Sarah Lane I was at a premiere thing at New York. So --

Leo Laporte Ooh, that’s even more fun.

Sarah Lane If I would have paid I would – that would have been a little different.

Tom Merritt Does it disappoint you to know it wasn’t shot in Abu Dhabi but instead in Morocco?

Sarah Lane No, I think a lot of things are shot in, you know, Vancouver and --

Tom Merritt And Abu Dhabi refuses to screen it?

Leo Laporte Yeah, I’ve been to Abu Dhabi. I know Abu Dhabi and Morocco is no Abu Dhabi.


[Ph] I mean (26:39) just say that about this.

Sarah Lane You know, I think Roger Ebert said it’s one of the worst movies ever made.

Leo Laporte Oh, I loved his review, by the way.

Sarah Lane It was so funny.

Leo Laporte I just loved his review.

Sarah Lane I think he said something like ‘these people make my skin crawl.’

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Sarah Lane And it’s – yeah, well, Sex and the City fans will like it.

Leo Laporte My wife loved it.

Sarah Lane But it’s a terrible movie, terrible.

Leo Laporte There’s a character in it named Rikard Spirt. Right?


Sarah Lane Dick Spirt.

Leo Laporte Dick Spirt. Rikard Spirt.

Sarah Lane Yep.

Leo Laporte So that just shows you.

Jim Louderback Yeah.

Leo Laporte Yeah, there you go.

Jim Louderback The writing was up to snuff, wasn’t it?

Leo Laporte Up to snuff.

Jim Louderback I. P. Freely.

Leo Laporte Yellow River, one of my favorite novels.

Tom Merritt Exactly.

Leo Laporte We want to take a break and talk a little bit about I think half this panel uses SquareSpace. I know Kevin does. I know Sarah does. I know Tom Merritt does.

Tom Merritt Yep. I use it for Forecast podcast.

Leo Laporte I know we do for our InsideTWiT blog. Of course, we all got it for free. But let me tell you. It’s worth paying for.

Tom Merritt No, I paid for mine.

Leo Laporte Did you?

Tom Merritt Yeah, I didn’t get a free one.

Leo Laporte I hope you used the TWiT coupon code to save --

Tom Merritt I used somebody’s code, Scam 1 or TWiT or --

Leo Laporte Somebody’s code. The problem is that we all have codes.

Tom Merritt Yeah.

Leo Laporte I would just ask those of you listening today to use the TWiT code, just for old times’ sake. Doesn’t really matter. We all love SquareSpace and there’s a good reason for it. If you go to, you will see – it’s not – it’s hard to describe. It’s not web hosting exactly, although it is web hosting. And it’s not software to do a blog exactly, although you can do a blog with it. What it really is, is the secret behind exceptional websites. It’s a way to design and maintain and run a website that never has to worry about the Digg effect because they have virtual private server technology that makes sure you have enough bandwidth whenever you need it. You never have --

Tom Merritt It works?

Leo Laporte It does work. Doesn’t it?

Kevin Rose Yeah, I’ve had a couple of my blog stories on there on Digg and it handles it, no problem.

Leo Laporte No problem. It’s beautiful. They have a – they just – Tony just flips a switch. He goes down to the basement. He says oh, flip the Kevin switch.


Tom Merritt Big red button.

Leo Laporte Big red button.

[Sound Effect]

Leo Laporte Digg! Digg! Digg! Great social integration with Twitter and Facebook and all the social sites, and an iPhone app that is the best blogging app ever. Plus you can import and export your comments and blog posts for Movable Type, WordPress, TypePad and Blogger. So you’re never stuck at SquareSpace, incredible statistics, beautiful templates. The best thing to do if you want to know what you can do with SquareSpace is go to the Examples section at the website. And look, there’s Clayton’s blog, I mean there’s just so many great sites. Sword and Laser’s on here too.

Tom Merritt Yeah, Sword and Laser’s there.

Leo Laporte Yeah, yeah, just beautiful sites. You know, they don’t look like – you know, when you see a WordPress site, you go, oh, that’s a WordPress site. When you see a Drupal site, you go, oh, that’s a Drupal site. I defy you to look at any of these sites and say oh, that’s a SquareSpace site. They all are unique. They are all beautiful. If you know CSS, of course, there’s no limit to what you can do but you don’t have to. You can just drag and drop templates to make gorgeous, gorgeous stuff.

Kevin Rose Did you see the new stuff coming out [indiscernible] (29:48) sneak peek stuff, Leo? SquareSpace.

Leo Laporte Yes, Kevin, I’m sure they – no, what, tell me. I haven’t seen it.

Kevin Rose Oh, it’s going to be cool. It’s really cool stuff.

Leo Laporte Really?

Kevin Rose Yeah, I can’t really [indiscernible] (30:02).

Leo Laporte No, no, that’s exciting because the beauty of this is if you are a SquareSpace customer, you get it all automatically.

Kevin Rose Yeah, there is no – that’s one thing I like about SquareSpace versus like WordPress and the others, you don’t have to worry about like upgrades, and like hackers, like is your software is out of date.

Leo Laporte It does --

Kevin Rose [Indiscernible] (30:05) for you.

Leo Laporte They host it all. They upgrade it all. They keep it in perfect shape for you. Starts as low as $8 a month for the Basic account. For the huge massive package, $50 a month is it. And by the way, if you use the coupon code TWiT, you get 10% off for life. $30 a month for the Business package, I mean it’s just a really, really fantastic, it’s great --

Tom Merritt Keep yourself healthy.

Leo Laporte Keep yourself healthy.

Tom Merritt So you can use that 10% off for a long time.

Leo Laporte Oh! that’s true. The longer you live the more you save.

Tom Merritt That’s right.

Leo Laporte I hadn’t really thought about that.


There is a reason to live forever. Ah, I am getting 10% off on SquareSpace, I can’t die.

Sarah Lane Wine helps your heart, right?

Jim Louderback Scotch.

Leo Laporte Pouilly-Fuissé, Sarah is drinking. We are drinking a lovely Paso Robles, I mentioned that already.

Jim Louderback Yeah.

Leo Laporte I’m repeating myself.

Jim Louderback Have another glass.

Tom Merritt I’m sorry. I totally interrupted the money phase of that commercial.

Leo Laporte No, we don’t need money. Money, who needs money?

Jim Louderback You will learn.

Tom Merritt I prefer TWiT.

Leo Laporte – you will learn. You kids – you kids, you will learn. Let’s see, we’ve got a great cast of characters. Let me just run through it one more time in case you just tuned in. Of course Tom Merritt, our newest employee, he is going to be starting his Tech News Today on Tuesday.

Tom Merritt Should I keep the beard for Tech News Today?

Leo Laporte I like the beard.

Sarah Lane I like it.

Jim Louderback It’s cool.

Tom Merritt Really? Everybody seems to like it.

Sarah Lane Yeah.

Leo Laporte Tom is such a baby-face even though he is like older than me.

Sarah Lane It’s rugged.

Tom Merritt It’s helps the lighting too.

Leo Laporte It helps the lighting.

Tom Merritt Because I don’t reflect as much.

Leo Laporte Yeah, you are awfully white.

Jim Louderback Yeah, you don’t get as shiny --

Leo Laporte He’s so white.

Jim Louderback I wish I could grow a beard.

Leo Laporte You can’t grow a beard. What do you mean? What are you, 18?

Jim Louderback No, I had somebody like – it was like you’ve got sideburns and so I’ve been trying to grow them for like three months and nothing is there, so.

Leo Laporte Really, that’s three months beard?

Jim Louderback Yeah.

Sarah Lane That seems bad. That’s terrible.

Leo Laporte You know Jim Louderback has been camping for the last week. Now when I come back from camping --

Sarah Lane [Indiscernible] (31:51). He is the one to ask to.

Jim Louderback Can you tell? I haven’t shaven for two days. There is nothing there.

Leo Laporte Sarah has got more of a beard than you do. I’m sorry that’s mean. Sarah Lane is also – this is a Screen Savers reunion. This is how we treat each other – we did treat each other. We never had wine at TechTV. We would just do the show straight.

Tom Merritt Yeah.

Leo Laporte Maybe Starbuck.

Sarah Lane You never had wine.

Jim Louderback Well, there was wine that was --

Sarah Lane Some of us sometimes had tequila shots out of [indiscernible] (32:14) trunk.

Leo Laporte What?

Tom Merritt I had tequila in my --

Leo Laporte You started without me?

Tom Merritt Yeah.

Leo Laporte Because I know that after the show, we’d go to the Slow Club.

Jim Louderback Slow Club, yeah.

Tom Merritt Jay'n Bee.

Jim Louderback Well, you know what? The best part was on Fridays. After John Dvorak would do Silicon Spin, he would bring everybody over and start buying wine at the Slow Club. That was the best.

Leo Laporte Oh! man.

Jim Louderback And you guys were still doing Screen Savers. [Indiscernible] (32:34).

Leo Laporte We were stuck there, yeah.

Jim Louderback And by the time you guys get over, we were [indiscernible] (32:38).

Leo Laporte We’d do the tequila shots to catch up with you.

Jim Louderback Yeah, exactly or the lemon drops, I think there was a lemon drops phase.

Leo Laporte Lemon drops.

Jim Louderback Remember the lemon drops.

Leo Laporte There was a lemon drops phase, I do remember.

Kevin Rose Who drinks lemon drops? You guys are --

Leo Laporte Kate Botello, I might have --

Kevin Rose [Indiscernible] (32:55) lemon drops.

Leo Laporte I love lemon drops and Slow Club had brilliant lemon drops. Come on, Kevin.

Kevin Rose Where is the hamburger with the apple with smoked bacon?

Leo Laporte Oh! That was good.

Kevin Rose You know what I’m talking about?

Leo Laporte Yeah, I know what you’re talking about.

Kevin Rose A business [indiscernible] (33:05).

Leo Laporte And now is the Slow Club still there or are they gone.

Jim Louderback Oh! Yeah, Slow Club is still there.

Tom Merritt We’ve a few and Jay'n Bee is still there.

Jim Louderback Jay'n Bee [indiscernible] (33:14).

Tom Merritt [Indiscernible] (33:12) company a long ago.

Leo Laporte Jay'n Bee was a dive bar that Martin Sargent used to drag us to on Fridays.

Tom Merritt And one of our camera men knocked the window out. I won’t say his name.

Sarah Lane Who?

Leo Laporte Let’s call it. Well, who do you think? It’s got to be Simon, right?

Jim Louderback Simon Candice?

Leo Laporte It wasn’t Simon? Dave Chunk?

Sarah Lane I think yes, Dave Chunk.

Jim Louderback Dave Chunk it was? Okay.

Tom Merritt Dave Chunk, okay.

Jim Louderback I can name that cameraman in two notes.

Sarah Lane Good times.

Leo Laporte Good times. We were all a lot younger.

Sarah Lane Good times, don’t forget [indiscernible] (33:42) elephant.

Tom Merritt All right, yeah.

Sarah Lane Remember [indiscernible] (33:48) anymore.

Leo Laporte You guys never asked me there. Was that in LA after you all went to G4?

Sarah Lane No, it was [indiscernible] (33:56).

Leo Laporte Hey, I want to thank G4, because – and I have to say I’ve not often had many good things to say about G4, but we wanted to cover E3.

Jim Louderback Yeah, I want to know what happened with that because you were shut out, right?

Leo Laporte Well, I thought we were. IDG said we can’t let you come with your streaming rig. We were going to down for the streaming rig. They won’t – you can’t come down because G4 has an exclusive and I thought, well, that’s weird. Why would IDG give G4 exclusive live streaming? So I buzzed. This was the power of the buzz. I buzzed the Google buzz, can’t do it. G4 called us, which is very nice of them, they said, oh, look, let’s work something out. You can stream before we go live. And as long as you have some of our [ph] editors on (34:38), and you mentioned that after you go off, the coverage continues in G4. I said I’d be glad to do that. So we will be streaming live from E3. In fact they moved their start time up and they said, ah, that’s okay. You don’t have to shut down early. So I think they started 2 in the afternoon. We’ll start at noon and we’ll go --

Jim Louderback Oh, that’s great. Who are you taking down there?

Leo Laporte Shwood.

Jim Louderback Oh, Brian is going.

Tom Merritt Shwood.

Leo Laporte Brian Brushwood. I was looking for a gamer.

Jim Louderback Shwood.

Tom Merritt And then we’re going to cap it all off with Tech News Today at the end of the day.

Jim Louderback Yeah, sounds great.

Leo Laporte It’s going to be great. It’s going to be beauty, yeah.

Jim Louderback So you’ll be up here anchoring.

Tom Merritt Yup.

Leo Laporte Somebody’s got to stay here. So Shwood and I will go down to E3.

Tom Merritt I’ll be here playing games while I’m waiting for them.

Leo Laporte Yup.

Jim Louderback And Brian will be eating fire and playing games.

Tom Merritt Yeah.

Leo Laporte Yeah, he’s the closest we could come to a gamer.

Jim Louderback He’s a gamer.

Leo Laporte Oh, he’s a gamer.

Jim Louderback He’s a gamer.

Leo Laporte Oh, he’s game and a gamer. And we thank – by the way, Ford is coming back to sponsor that.

Tom Merritt Oh, fantastic. Leo Laporte So I’m very excited about that. So I got the EVO, I’m very excited about that. This is the new Sprint phone. Sprint is the latest to do an Android phone. I have to say, I haven’t seen the iPhone yet. I know of course, Kevin, you probably have one.

Kevin Rose The new one?

Leo Laporte The new one, yeah.

Kevin Rose Yeah.

Leo Laporte Yeah, of course, you do. But – so I don’t know – and I’m sure Apple will have much to say. But this is going to be pretty tough to beat Android at this point. Android has gone through several iterations in the one year that Apple has done an iPhone. They’ve got handsets from Motorola, from HTC, from Sony Ericsson, some great companies making great stuff. And they just get better and better. And this EVO – well, now, Sarah, you don’t like the EVO so much?

Sarah Lane So – okay, so just to be fair, because I know that there are like – just the way – same way with Apple fanboy, fan – fan people, if we can call them fan people, there are now Android fan people and I am aware of that.

Leo Laporte I’m an Android fanboy. No, I’m an Android – yes.

Sarah Lane So you are on Android fan people plus and an older man and bad, very bad.

Leo Laporte Love it.

Jim Louderback 10%

Leo Laporte Did you say fandroid older man?

Kevin Rose She said [indiscernible] (36:44) and older man.

Sarah Lane Kevin? [Indiscernible] (36:48).


Sarah Lane As far as the EVO goes, the face is beautiful, and at first I thought, wow, it looks, the display is a lot bigger than the iPhone, and that’s the first thing that you notice. But it’s kind of like – I don’t know, it feels too big in my hand. I guess --

Leo Laporte That’s what she said!


Sarah Lane All right, come on.

Leo Laporte Shoot me! I’m so sorry!

Sarah Lane You’re forcing me to drink more wine. Thanks for that.

Leo Laporte Oh my god, I can’t believe I did that. That was just awful.

Sarah Lane I know. My life is --

Kevin Rose Wow.

Sarah Lane That is what she said. That is what she said. But --

Kevin Rose [Ph] We can have (37:22) that on Diggnation, that would be awesome.


Tom Merritt You don’t get jokes like that on Diggnation.

Leo Laporte I’m sorry. It was just wide open.

Tom Merritt I am just like you said.

Sarah Lane I know. I’m fine. I actually like those kind of jokes.

Leo Laporte You were thinking it, is that it?

Jim Louderback You know, Leo, something I’ve been thinking a lot about the EVO. So why do you need Internet access if you have an EVO? So hear me out. You live in a Wi-Fi or some sort of LTE environment or whatever it works on, WiMAX. And you buy this and you have unlimited data. Why do you need Internet connection? Why do you need to pay somebody else for --

Leo Laporte You don’t! In fact if I had 4G, I wouldn’t, because for 30 bucks a month, this tethers. Not even tethering, it’s a Wi-Fi access point.

Tom Merritt I think there is a way to get the tethering for free if you have 4G? You just set it – if you live in a 4G area, you can set it to tether – or I’m sorry, you can set it to be a hotspot without having to pay extra.

Jim Louderback Well, that’s exactly it.

Tom Merritt Because they’re – and Sprint have said look, we made a mistake, if you live in a 4G area, you can do that. We’re going to change that, we’re going to change that in a while and you’re going to have to pay. But now you’ve get it for free.

Leo Laporte I just want to point out that the Nexus One with Android 2.2 does that for free, T-Mobile…

Jim Louderback But it’s not WiMAX.

Leo Laporte It’s T-Mobile, right.

Jim Louderback The thing is that my brother lives in Seattle, okay, or Tacoma. And he is an LTE – he is a Clearwire customer for his home internet access.

Leo Laporte Why bother?

Jim Louderback And he is looking into buying an EVO and I said you know, John, the things you can do, is if you buy the EVO, you and your wife, both get an EVO…

Leo Laporte You know what the problem is? When he goes to work, there is no more Internet access.

Jim Louderback It doesn’t matter. Him and his wife, they both buy one. They are the only people in the house.

Leo Laporte Right, so, Sarah – I don’t want to pre-empt Sarah’s review of the T-EVO, of the EVO, T-EVO EVO, of the EVO. But I agree with you, we’re really seeing – and I think it’s somewhat because of Google – a real change in how we think about our phones and how we use our phones.

Now, Sarah, this is – yours is purely from a user point of view, right?

Sarah Lane Definitely from a user point of view.

Leo Laporte So what is it, too big for you? What don’t you like?

Sarah Lane So it’s – I’m a happy iPhone user. So I’ll preface anything I’ll say with that, and that I guess does kind of make me a bit biased, but…

Leo Laporte No, I was a happy iPhone user for a long time.

Sarah Lane But EVO, it’s heavy, it’s heavy. The screen is – it feels clunky big. It’s beautiful to look at but it feels clunky big. And the touch keyboard is so ugly. I mean that thing is ugly. I don’t know how anybody could say any different. I find it hard to type on. I just – there’s something about the Android interface that I’ve never quite loved. Something doesn’t quite click with me. And I have no doubt that it will get there. But it’s not this phone.

Kevin Rose Yeah.

Sarah Lane I hold it for a few seconds and I don’t want to use it anymore. You know? So, that’s just the truth.

Leo Laporte Right.

Kevin Rose I’ve got a theory on that I think is right. And that is that anyone that has used an iPhone before and then they go and move to Android, they notice that it’s not quite as polished.

Leo Laporte That’s true. That’s true.

Kevin Rose So when they start playing with the menus, they start playing with the keyboard, they start playing with the way that the apps interact with each other, they look for the options, it’s not quite – from a usability standpoint, it’s not quite there. And so you get this phone and you are all excited because it looks cool and you hear great things about the Android OS, and you are like where is my Angry Birds, I just want like the awesome apps that are on the iPhone…

Leo Laporte Angry Birds, really?

Kevin Rose Oh, have you played Angry Birds?

Leo Laporte Yeah, I played on the iPad, but yeah.

Kevin Rose It’s amazing.

Leo Laporte See I think one of the advantages of an iPad is I have all those apps and then I still have my phone.

Kevin Rose Right.

Leo Laporte Right.

Kevin Rose There you go.

Leo Laporte Is it just that UI is better or is it partly just because it’s different?

Jim Louderback You are used to it.

Kevin Rose And you are used to the iPhone.

Leo Laporte I think the Android UI is better, I will be honest.

Jim Louderback You know what’s going to be really interesting is the guy who did the Danger and who went over to Palm…

Leo Laporte Now went to Google.

Jim Louderback He just went to Google.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Jim Louderback This is the guy who did the great – I mean I consider the Danger [indiscernible] (41:06) which was the sidekick to be one of the best phone OS’s ever.

Leo Laporte We gave it best to CES.

Jim Louderback We gave it best to CES at one point.

Leo Laporte When it first came out.

Kevin Rose Like in 1992…

Jim Louderback Yeah, I am sorry it was more like 2000, but thank you, thank you Kevin for that. But this guy…

Kevin Rose [indiscernible] (41:20)

Leo Laporte Let’s put it this way, Kevin was 15 when we did it.

Jim Louderback It was the best he could do at the time, Kevin. And he has now gone to Google hopefully to do a good job with these Android things.

Kevin Rose I want to see what these going to do with Android.

Jim Louderback So do I.

Leo Laporte What’s his name, do we know his name?

Jim Louderback He was at Palm, he is the guy who did the recent Palm OS.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Kevin Rose Apple has got Johnny Ive, that’s all they need.

Leo Laporte Yeah you know, Johnny Ive…

Kevin Rose [indiscernible] (41:42).

Leo Laporte Yeah. He does do a good UI. Man knows. It’s funny, even the story on the Internet doesn’t say his name, it just says ‘The Man Who Did WebOS.’ Nobody in the chat…

Jim Louderback I got to hear…

Leo Laporte Nobody knows his name. Matias Duarte, nobody wants to say his name. Matias Duarte. He went to Google…

Jim Louderback He went to Google just this past week.

Leo Laporte Yeah. I think they makes a lot of sense, I think Google frankly is where it’s happening right now. This is where – now I don’t think I haven’t seen the iPhone, the next iPhone, and I bet you I am going to buy one, I bet you’ll all love it. This is just good news for everybody. It makes Apple work harder, it makes Google work harder, but I think Google has an advantage because it’s a same advantage Microsoft had over Apple, multiple handsets and a faster iteration of hardware and software, right? That makes a big difference.

Jim Louderback It’s almost like we are seeing 1990 played out again with the Mac and the Windows, or 1984, or whatever.

Leo Laporte Well it come down to – do you read Virginia Heffernan’s article in last Sunday’s New York Times where she said apps are the suburbia of the Internet. She said the free and open worldwide web is essentially like downtown where anything goes, there’s ads, there’s scummy people…

Jim Louderback Chinatown…

Leo Laporte It’s dangerous, it’s Chinatown Jake.

Jim Louderback Forget it.

Leo Laporte Forget it. And she said, but apps have become the suburbia, the place that you go…

Jim Louderback It’s a strip mall.

Leo Laporte It’s a little nicer, it’s a little cleaner, there’s – and so – but it has the same problem where if you have everybody leaving the city, the city goes to hell, you stuck with these apps and I think this is the problem. I think we are seeing a fight now between open and closed. Open is always messy, it’s dirty, it’s not – it’s got little issues with the UI. But closed is dangerous in the long run, that’s what I would submit.

Jim Louderback Yeah, I can see that. I can see a good parallel there of Apple’s app store and Android’s app store for that matter being like the strip mall, where you get individualized…

Leo Laporte You get porn.

Jim Louderback …sanitized choices…

Leo Laporte Right.

Jim Louderback …that are very easy to get to, get on a [indiscernible] (43:50).

Leo Laporte Yes, yes, yes. But Apple’s especially, not so much Android’s.

Jim Louderback But you are not going to be able to find the chalk that gets rid of the ants or the weird ethnic food or…

Leo Laporte Right.

Jim Louderback …any of the cool stuff.

Kevin Rose Why does everyone keep mentioning porn, like who really wants too much porn on their cell phone? I guess that the people…

Leo Laporte Show of hands in the chat room.

Jim Louderback Yeah. No one’s going to admit it but I am sure there are…

Kevin Rose On their cell phone?

Jim Louderback Yeah, why not. You know what best screen available. If you have the urge and the only screen you got is that screen, it’s your best screen available.

Sarah Lane I am with Kevin. I mean I am on my phone when I am on the go and I am not…

Leo Laporte Well that’s actually a good point, I don’t know what – Steve is the one who keeps bringing it up, right?

Sarah Lane I mean I like porn but not enough to watch it and upset people on [indiscernible] (44:35), next to me.

Leo Laporte Yeah. No I think you are right.

Jim Louderback Privacy filter.

Leo Laporte It’s not – when Steve talks about porn I think he is talking about those silly like the Jiggle app that makes peoples’ body parts jiggle and stuff like that. It’s – you are right, there’s – I mean porn on the iPhone is a joke, at least that’s been my experience. What is this?

Jim Louderback Some serious work going on, on the iPhone in the porn world.

Leo Laporte It’s very small, I can’t quite make it out. It looks like two people are doing something, but I don’t know what.

Jim Louderback Oh wait, I have been at open source code check. This isn’t porn at all.

Leo Laporte Is this porn?

Jim Louderback No, I think…

Kevin Rose These are pancakes.

Leo Laporte I think you are right Kevin, that’s – that is kind of a [ph] red herring (45:21).

Sarah Lane Yes.

Leo Laporte However, it’s – that’s the point though. It’s that and maybe that’s what [ph] offend (45:29) Steve is that anything goes. And he likes the idea of making a nice – it’s a boutique versus a bodega.

Jim Louderback It’s a gated community.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Jim Louderback Yeah.

Leo Laporte It’s exactly what it is. I thought it was a little bit of a stretched analogy but I think it does make a good point and I think she says at the end we may regret this flight to the suburbs.

Jim Louderback I feel in my gut, and I don’t – haven’t thought out the logic to justify this yet, but I feel like that’s a little bit of an overreaction. And I don’t think – I think they are stretching the metaphor a little too far, because I think…

Leo Laporte It’s not mutually exclusive, is it?

Jim Louderback The open source applications that we have will continue….

Leo Laporte Exactly.

Jim Louderback …and they’ll continue to be good, it’s just that on the phone we maybe missing out on the opportunities that we would have had.

Leo Laporte So you don’t fear that apps will kill open?

Jim Louderback No, I don’t think so. I think open is too much of a force of just how people use the Internet. It may dampen it, but it won’t kill it.

Tom Merritt Well, do you want a Nintendo 64 or do you want a full-fledge PC, right, as the model for what you do on your phone? I mean the great thing about the Nintendo 64 was everything just worked, but it was controlled by Nintendo…

Leo Laporte And by the way Nintendo was the first company to say we are not going to let the junk games on the killed Atari.

Tom Merritt Exactly. And it did well, but now we’ve got the Xbox, we have got gaming on the PC…

Leo Laporte Oh, but the Xbox and PS3 still have that Nintendo model…

Tom Merritt Exactly.

Leo Laporte …where [indiscernible] (46:46) that every game.

Tom Merritt And I think people do want that for their phone.

Kevin Rose The problem is that I think there is a hybrid here, I mean Apple could easily say okay listen if you want to be in the app store, if you want to get revenue through Apple, you have to go through the approval process, right? if you don’t you can still install your apps on peoples’ phones, but you have to have the installation process happen via the web, like you click on it just you would download and install any other application.

Jim Louderback Yeah. Well the trouble ends up being for Apple, where they do things like they are doing with HTML5 and Flash, and whereas we saw this week a couple of big broadcast networks saying screw you Apple you are not going to let Flash on your device, so what, we are going to keep using Flash, we are not going to HTML5.

Leo Laporte That might be a mistake.

Jim Louderback That’s a mistake for Apple.

Leo Laporte That’s a mistake for the company.

Jim Louderback I think it’s a mistake for Apple.

Leo Laporte I think it’s a mistake for the company.

Tom Merritt I think you are both right.

Jim Louderback I do think we are both right.

Tom Merritt No, I think it’s a mistake on both parts.

Leo Laporte It’s crazy, [indiscernible] (47:36) that 85 million units out there, which you do have iPod Touches and iPhones, and they can’t play who is it, NBC’s content?

Jim Louderback It’s NBC, I forgot the other network.

Leo Laporte If they can’t – now Hulu says they are going to do an iPad app.

Jim Louderback And charge you for it.

Leo Laporte And charge for you it.

Jim Louderback Probably.

Leo Laporte I think that the – [indiscernible] (47:55) what’s going on, Jeff Jarvis says this all the time, that what’s happening is it’s the last guess of these content companies like the New York Times, like Rupert Murdoch who said my god, we are – our business model is going away, the open web and the link economy is destroying our model because anybody can search Google for a new story and they could find it in 800 places and they are going to get it from the free places, we are hoping that people will pay for apps on the iPad and have that gated community and keep us alive, and I think it’s a last guess.

Jim Louderback I think people do want the gated community on their phone, the way – they want the open net on their computer – I don’t know about the Tablet? Because they want to open net on their computer, I am not sure where…

Leo Laporte I am putting my money – I tell you what I am putting my energies in time, I was trying to learn iPad development and I said, wait a minute, what am I doing, I am going to learn Android development, and I believe that – and we will see this at Computext next week, we are going to see a dozen if not more…

Jim Louderback 36.

Leo Laporte 36?

Jim Louderback That’s what I heard.

Leo Laporte 36, three dozen pads, iPad clones running Android.

Jim Louderback Android Tablets. Yeah, and we will look at what happened this past week when Dell finally came up with a great name for their new 5-inch tablet.

Leo Laporte What is it?

Jim Louderback The Streak. Oh yes they call it the Streak.

Leo Laporte That’s such a name.

Jim Louderback I was going to say did they get [indiscernible] (49:05) whatever. It was not a very good name, but it is a really cool tablet. 5-inches, fits in your pocket, a friend of mine works on it, and I have been playing with it…

Leo Laporte That’s half as big as an iPad.

Jim Louderback It’s 5 inches but it’s bigger than an iPhone, it’s a phone. You can make calls on it. And so it’s a really interesting…

Leo Laporte What does a tablet have to have to make it good? It has to have…

Kevin Rose Great battery life.

Leo Laporte Great battery life.

Jim Louderback Good battery life.

Sarah Lane Which the iPad has.

Kevin Rose [indiscernible] (49:29) you are not going to get.

Jim Louderback It’s going to have a nice screen, a really good looking screen.

Sarah Lane It has the best battery life ever.

Leo Laporte That’s 10 hours, it’s amazing, isn’t it?

Kevin Rose That’s why I worry about Android.

Sarah Lane It does take a while to charge too.

Leo Laporte It always on in your net access, yes, do we agree, that’s a necessity? Does it have to have apps? Yes.

Jim Louderback Does it have to have – does it have to have cell phone connectivity, voice connectivity?

Leo Laporte No. I’d say no.

Sarah Lane I hate [indiscernible] (49:52) phone.

Jim Louderback Camera?

Leo Laporte Camera? Does it have to have a camera?

Jim Louderback I think it should have a camera.

Sarah Lane It should.

Jim Louderback I think I do miss that with the iPad sometimes.

Sarah Lane Me too.

Leo Laporte Does it have to have multi-touch? Yes.

Jim Louderback Yes.

Leo Laporte Has to have touch. Good touch. That’s what’s been missing. By the way that’s what was missing on all those Windows 7.

Jim Louderback Yes, right, totally.

Tom Merritt Well, the problem with all the Windows tablets is you had to use a…

Leo Laporte The [indiscernible] (50:12) crazy.

Tom Merritt Yes, it was stupid.

Jim Louderback It was the desktop operating system, yes.

Leo Laporte Right. So it has to be a mobile operating system touch based, it has to have…

Jim Louderback Does it have to connect to a PC? Does it have to allow you to hook up…

Tom Merritt It shouldn’t have to, shouldn’t.

Jim Louderback No, but should it be able to that you can transfer things easily from your computer to your pad?

Leo Laporte Yes. You know.

Jim Louderback Kevin doesn’t think it so.

Leo Laporte I think the way that Apple does it is – I made a spreadsheet in number of the We Rule crops and buildings and did a calculation based…

Tom Merritt Can you believe the [indiscernible] (50:45) golden cauliflower by the way?

Leo Laporte Oh, man, okay, that should have been the top story, I buried the lead. What the hell is going on? They killed the magic cauliflower. You have to now be level 40 to get it. But so I made – I had to make a spreadsheet and then I moved it over very easily through iTunes over to here so that I know what buildings to build and by the way Tom I think we were mistaken on the dragons…

Tom Merritt Really?

Leo Laporte No, no, I think clearly the tailor shop, I did the math.

Kevin Rose The tailor shop, really.

Leo Laporte Yes, the tailor shop; let me show you the numbers.

Tom Merritt That’s the best bang for the buck.

Leo Laporte Well, it’s only 1,500…

Tom Merritt It requires more maintenance, that’s…

Leo Laporte Eight hours.

Tom Merritt Yes.

Leo Laporte The dragons, two days.

Sarah Lane Wait, can I just interrupt for a second…

Jim Louderback I’m still playing SimCity, Sarah, I have no idea what they are talking about.

Sarah Lane Golden cauliflower?

Leo Laporte You know, magic…

Sarah Lane It’s a golden cauliflower.

Leo Laporte We are talking about the only game in town We Rule for the iPad, it’s…

Sarah Lane This is the Farmville [indiscernible] (51:35)?

Leo Laporte Yes. So Tom, just look here, the tailor shop, okay, in terms of gold per hour, 28 and XP per hour it’s the highest, 11 XP per hour, and it’s only 1,500; the next best is the magic emporium, it was 55,000 coins, seems to me…

Jim Louderback Can you guys get a room or something?

Leo Laporte I’m saying it in the wrong voice, it seems to me that if you carefully calculate the parameters of the purchase that you’d be much better off, but by the way the orange grove is a sleeper.

Tom Merritt Yes. Haven’t planted one of the orange grove.

Leo Laporte Well, plant many.

Tom Merritt Yes.

Leo Laporte Every six hours.

Jim Louderback Where were we?

Leo Laporte But no, I think gaming, you know, Kevin, you are into it, admit it, don’t be shy.

Kevin Rose The gaming?

Leo Laporte We Rule.

Kevin Rose Casual gaming, I like We Rule, it’s, I’m like level 20 or something.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Sarah Lane You also play Farmville though, so.

Leo Laporte Do you play Farmville still?

Kevin Rose No more.

Leo Laporte No, We Rule has replaced it.

Sarah Lane He stops playing Farmville.

Leo Laporte What do you play on Facebook? What’s the game on Facebook?

Kevin Rose Well, anything, anymore, mostly iPad stuff now.

Leo Laporte Me too.

Jim Louderback I’m going home to play Red Dead Redemption after...

Leo Laporte That is an awesome freaking game. The Western is back.

Tom Merritt Yes. The story is incredible.

Jim Louderback Yeah, it’s a great story.

Tom Merritt Yes.

Jim Louderback It’s a great story.

Leo Laporte Right, we are going to continue with this gamer fest, so when shall – we don’t do is a gaming show. You guys just launched a new gaming show, very excited.

Jim Louderback You did the gaming show?

Leo Laporte Yes, and Penn Jillette.

Jim Louderback Well, and Penn’s pretty wild.

Leo Laporte How did you get Penn Jillette, come on, paying millions of dollars?

Jim Louderback You know, it’s interesting; Jay Adelson had a conversation with some one who knew him. And he was looking for a home.

Leo Laporte It’s nice, and then you fire him.

Jim Louderback I did not…

Tom Merritt He is just generous.

Jim Louderback Wait, no, he is the chairman of my Board.

Leo Laporte Oh he is?

Tom Merritt Oh he is the Frank Sinatra.

Jim Louderback Yes.

Leo Laporte He is the chairman of whose…?

Jim Louderback Revision3.

Leo Laporte Oh, so he is still around.

Jim Louderback Yes.

Leo Laporte No, you fired him at Digg?

Jim Louderback Don’t point at me. All I’m saying is…

Leo Laporte We all love Jay, he is a wonderful guy and…

Tom Merritt So that’s cool, so he made…

Jim Louderback Yes.

Leo Laporte He has got friends with Penn Jillette, and now it’s called Penn…

Jim Louderback It’s called Penn Point.

Leo Laporte Penn Point.

Jim Louderback And you actually have to check out the most recent one because I did not know this but apparently chimpanzees are great when there are people who are bigger than they are but when you get people who are their size or smaller they fight and they want to kill them and apparently…

Leo Laporte So they are bullies.

Jim Louderback Penn had a party where he invited a chimp and a little person.

Leo Laporte Nobody would ever invite a chimp to a party, that’s crazy talk.

Jim Louderback Well, Penn did. So you have to check out what happened.

Leo Laporte Chimp attack.

Jim Louderback Yes, chimp attack.

Leo Laporte So these are little shorties, so you can watch him…

Jim Louderback Yes, couple of minutes.

Leo Laporte On your phone or whatever…

Tom Merritt This is similar to what Penn says, right?

Jim Louderback With more direction, better production and I hope more interesting sustainability to it.

[Video presentation] (54:24 – 54:24)

Leo Laporte So he’s got a studio?

Jim Louderback That’s his house. We went and built a studio for him at his house.

Leo Laporte Oh, man, I’m so jealous. Was this radio studio? He used to do a radio show?

Jim Louderback Yes.

Tom Merritt Oh, yes, he did an hour on Free FM.

Leo Laporte Free FM.

Tom Merritt It was great. It was great show.

Leo Laporte So he is like, he is just a guy who likes doing media and so he is just like okay, I’ll do that.

Jim Louderback He is a guy with a point of view.

Leo Laporte He definitely has a point of view. There is no question about it.

Jim Louderback He is very smart, wicked smart.

Leo Laporte This is great. He has got two cameras set up, one of them he is holding.

Jim Louderback Wasn’t that cool, we got the flip cam, and we’ve been working with him on that, we got two fixed cameras and a flip cam.

Leo Laporte He is also switching his own stuff.

Jim Louderback No, no, we are switching him. We got eye sense on all of them and…

Leo Laporte So you don’t have to go to his house.

Jim Louderback No. He sends his all three [ph] ISO’s (55:03) and we edit them up.

Leo Laporte There is the dwarf. All tight, little person, I’m sorry. All right. Thank you, Penn. We are going to take a break, come back with a more BS in just a bit. It has descended to that, has it not?

Jim Louderback is here, Kevin Rose, the lovely and talented Sarah Lane, newest employee and our oldest newest employee, that’s right, Mr. Tom Merritt. Good to have you all.

Jim Louderback Is there hazing that goes on when you…

Sarah Lane I think Tom and I are like the same age, aren’t we, you are not old, Leo is the oldest.

Leo Laporte Tom’s much older than you, Sarah, that’s very nice of you to say he is the same age but Tom is much older than you.

Tom Merritt I’m like twice your age.

Leo Laporte He is twice your age.

Tom Merritt 71.

Sarah Lane Oh come on.

Leo Laporte No, Tom’s closer to my age, than your age. Wait a minute, that’s not right.

Tom Merritt It might be right.

Leo Laporte No, you are tight in between, you are right in the middle.

Jim Louderback [Ph] May be just (55:57) the price is right?

Leo Laporte I guess he weighs 162 pounds.

Tom Merritt I weigh more than that.

Leo Laporte Okay, so I want to talk about GoToMeeting, if you don’t mind. GoToMeeting from the friends at Citrix, those great folks who do GoToMyPC, GoToAssist, of course they do the enterprise remote access. GoToMeeting, the design of GoToMeeting is to save you money, to cut costs, to improve processes, to work more efficiently in your business. Every dollar you save helps the bottom line and GoToMeeting will save you money by cutting travel costs, by improving communication, helping you work smarter, more efficiently, we use it all the time. We have multiple accounts now because sometimes we will have two or three GoToMeetings going on at the same time. If you are looking for a web conferencing tool for your business, save money, $49 a month for GoToMeeting, they have got an iPad application that is just to die for, for product reviews, for sales presentations, training sessions, collaborations, great if you are pitching clients because they don’t have to have anything installed, [ph] they had to (56:54) time you just say go to GoToMeeting, I’m going to show you this.

30 seconds later they are seeing your desktop on their screen, you can show them the slides, the spreadsheets, the PowerPoint, whatever it is you need to talk about. Turn that boring conference call into something visual, something real, try it right now for free, for 30 days, go to, I will say go to GoToMeeting, it sounds like I’m stuttering. And I think people are just going to go to, don’t, no, it’s visit [Indiscernible] that better, isn’t it (57:22)?

Jim Louderback Stop by.

Leo Laporte Stop by.

Tom Merritt Type in your address bar.

Jim Louderback www., so if you put the www…

Leo Laporte I should do that. It says that on the lower third…

Jim Louderback Then you’d break up the go to and GoTo.

Leo Laporte Go to www. I’m out of breath.

Jim Louderback It’s like 1999 all over again.

Leo Laporte Go to

Jim Louderback .com.

Leo Laporte .com. did we say .com? No.

Jim Louderback Probably not.

Leo Laporte Hope not.

Tom Merritt Way in the 90s I heard people say it.

Leo Laporte .com.

Tom Merritt People think that was uncool then.

Jim Louderback .org.

Kevin Rose Yes.

Leo Laporte I remember on the site trying to convince him not to put http:// in the lower third.

Jim Louderback Yes, right, and in the teleprompter, right?

Leo Laporte In the teleprompter. And then eventually we got to the point where I was trying to tell our producers not to put dub-dub-dub into the URLs on the screen savers., see it’s easy, This is much easier to say then. Try it today, you’ll love it. What are you laughing at?

Jim Louderback Kevin. Kevin is doing strange things.

Leo Laporte Is Kevin doing something bizarre?

Kevin Rose I was just flipping…

Leo Laporte What are you [indiscernible] (58:29) was he flipping me off, was he pinching my head?

Kevin Rose No, no.

Jim Louderback Looked like he was trying to swat a very large bug.

Leo Laporte Have another, what is that, blue…

Kevin Rose Blue…

Leo Laporte It’s not blue in color, it’s just blue in spirit.

Kevin Rose Yes.

Leo Laporte Am I blue…

Kevin Rose Label.

Leo Laporte Mike Arrington and Carol Bartz, that was fun.

Kevin Rose Thought that was awesome.

Leo Laporte Did you – were you there for that Sarah Lane at Disrupt?

Sarah Lane I was, I was and it’s funny because my initial reaction is different than the way I feel about it now because at the time you know you had a conference and the conference is as interesting as they are, they go for a few hours and you are talking to a lot of VCs and you know sometimes I find it like I have to – after a few – like you know I’m hungry for lunch and you know maybe I’m sort of struggling to keep paying attention to everything that’s being said.

Leo Laporte So you were drowsy and pranky?

Sarah Lane So that, well, yes, so that interview was like, you know, Mike started it out with how the f are you, to her, and everyone went, ah, you know, we all woke up, and so everybody was kind of listening to the interview…

Leo Laporte I kind of like that, I thought that’s kind of cool.

Sarah Lane Well, I mean it was…

Leo Laporte [Ph] Jay (59:36) …

Sarah Lane He sort of got the sense that they were…

Leo Laporte They were buddies.

Sarah Lane Yes, sort of a friendly thing like, you know, we at TechCrunch have been [indiscernible] you (59:45)…

Leo Laporte Right.

Sarah Lane But you know here you are and you came willingly and everything. But then as it went on, it was almost as if, I don’t know, I guess it was almost as if she had something to prove, and when she told him to, you know what she said, you know there was lots of laughter and lots of applause in the audience and everyone thought it was so funny and that interview kind of wrapped up soon after that, but then you think about it and it’s like when it really comes down to sort of the shock value aside, this is the CEO of a very large company and the true spokesperson of that company and here you have a technology journalist asking you questions and that’s your answer, I mean that is – that’s a really sort of a weird image to project. Don’t you think?

Leo Laporte Well she in fact, he starts to question her about the direction of Yahoo! and she says, how big is your company like?

Sarah Lane Right, I mean it’s sort of, again it’s like it was funny in the moment, but when you think about [ph] the ego (01:00:44), I mean how can, that’s not only is that not an answer, but I mean that’s a very strange answer. I mean you can’t, I can’t [ph] figure a (01:00:55) answer if someone asked you a question in a technology conference that you came to willingly…

Leo Laporte But she is famous for her kind of [ph] body mouth (01:01:04), right?

Sarah Lane Maybe so, but okay, then answer it that way and then provide some numbers and facts.

Leo Laporte Here we go, here is the audio from TechCrunch.

[Advertisement] (1:01:18 – 1:01:36). I think this is in good fun. [Indiscernible] (1:01:39). By the way that cackling, Robert Scoble.

Sarah Lane Somebody give him a mute button and keep it muted.

Leo Laporte Well this is being, this is a video from the audience. I don’t know if there is an official video. This is from the audience and the guy unfortunately sitting right next to Scoble.

[Advertisement] (1:02:00 – 1:02:07). You know, I took that in good fun and I don’t know, how did Mike take it when he – when she laid that on?

Sarah Lane Like I said, the interview ended soon after that, they had gone over. So it wasn’t like he was like I want to end the interview because I’m mad or anything. I think it was probably [ph] giant (01:02:25). I mean it was kind of just a, sort of a just a [ph] giant (01:02:28) thing in general.

Leo Laporte She is famous for that, I kind of like it.

Sarah Lane I have no idea if he thought it was funny or not.

Leo Laporte I kind of like it, she has got a point, I mean he’s – I mean he is doing his job.

Tom Merritt It is kind of like going on Stephen Colbert, right? I mean when you go on there you shouldn’t expect to have a very straight ahead forward Bill Moyers type conversation. You are going to have fun. When you go talk to Michael Arrington you should expect to have a TechCrunch like conversation. I mean that seems to be in the style of Arrington.

Leo Laporte I’ve told Mike Arrington to screw off, I mean…

Tom Merritt Have you?

Leo Laporte Yes.

Jim Louderback Where is that keyboard cat when you need him?

Leo Laporte I understand her point of view, but…

Kevin Rose That was all [ph] of a [indiscernible] (1:03:02).

Leo Laporte Yeah, I know.

Jim Louderback But isn’t this just distracting from Yahoo!’s performance, as it were?

Leo Laporte Well, see that is the fundamental question is what is she doing to turn around.

Tom Merritt Did she answer that question?

Leo Laporte No, but – yes she said it is a big boat and it’s going to take us a while to turning around. One of the things they did this week was they purchased Associated Content…

Jim Louderback Which I don’t think was a very smart thing to do. I mean Yahoo! is all about more premium level content, I mean look, they have got great content, people go there and now they are doing this bottom of the barrel scraping. I am not sure that’s the right thing.

Tom Merritt It might be good for the search engine.

[Indiscernible] (1:03:40). And so if you own, I mean the way that buying, buying Flickr has actually been really good for Yahoo’s! image search. Yahoo! image search is actually really good because they own Flickr.

Leo Laporte Wait a minute, doesn’t Microsoft do it now?

Tom Merritt Yeah, but it’s a partnership right, so if Yahoo! can provide some access may be to Associated Content and maybe lift some of that stuff, it’s a long shot [ph] I’ll grant you (1:04:05) but I could see that being some…

Leo Laporte Yahoo! is in the content business, so that’s what Yahoo! does now.

Tom Merritt But they are a premium content place.

Leo Laporte Yes, they are the biggest content…

Tom Merritt They keep going back and forth…

Jim Louderback No, they are…

Tom Merritt [Indiscernible] (01:04:12) how far they want to be in that.

Jim Louderback They have people writing sports. They have their producing shows.

Leo Laporte OMG, we talked about this a few months ago, do you know what OMG is? OMG is the number one, forget TMZ, Sarah do you ever go to this site OMG?

Sarah Lane Is it OMGPOP?

Leo Laporte, this is the number one celebrity site far and away.

Sarah Lane More than PopSugar?

Leo Laporte Yes.

Sarah Lane Because PopSugar is really popular.

Leo Laporte This is it, I’ve never even heard of this one, but apparently, so this is the thing real people have heard of it, not, not geeks. This is for real people. Hot topics, couples, pets, fashion faux pas and baby bumps.

Sarah Lane I mean, real people who want to read about Hulk Hogan and Britney Spears apparently, so…

Leo Laporte Hulk Hogan’s breakfast brawl.

Sarah Lane Does that interest you?

Leo Laporte No. My dinner…

Sarah Lane Chris O’Donnell: Dreamy Dad, I don’t think so. I mean this it’s just waste of time.

Leo Laporte By the way Dennis Hopper…

Tom Merritt May he rest in peace.

Leo Laporte Yeah, great man.

Jim Louderback Gary Coleman.

Tom Merritt And Art Linkletter.

Leo Laporte It goes in threes, doesn’t it. Do you think when Art passed on he really thought I am going with Dennis and Gary to the pearly gates?

Jim Louderback Kids say the darndest things.

Leo Laporte I have to say I interviewed Art Linkletter many – about 15 years ago on radio. He was still surfing in his 80s in Hawaii, one of the nicest guys you would ever want to meet, just a really class guy. Dennis Hopper, I don’t know, little weird.

Tom Merritt Weird but cool.

Leo Laporte Very cool.

Jim Leaderback Cool as long as you are more than 50 feet from him.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Jim Leaderback I am not sure I would want to spend a long time with him.

Leo Laporte We were going to have Kara Swisher on today, but she is awfully busy with this thing called D. And man, do they have a lineup for D, it’s pretty exciting, including Ballmer, Steve Jobs is going back I think, isn’t he?

Jim Leaderback He will be there, Jobs will be there.

Tom Merritt Speaking or just…

Jim Leaderback Speaking on stage.

Tom Merritt They are going to do the Jobs/Gates thing that they did?

Leo Laporte That was so cool.

Jim Leaderback I’m not sure if Gates is going to be there.

Leo Laporte Wasn’t that – wasn’t that a great interview? Speaking of which, you’re doing a great job of those Digg interviews you’re doing. You’re getting some big names.

Kevin Rose Those are fun.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I love those.

Kevin Rose We [Indiscernible] (66:30) on recently.

Leo Laporte How come you aren’t doing all those things. Aren’t you the guy?

Kevin Rose I don’t want to travel anymore, I am tired of flying around. There is – there is just too much going on in the office right now.

Jim Louderback We are working to clone Kevin, we need four of them.

Leo Laporte There’s more Kevins. So we’re talking about Sex and the City, as the only person who saw it Sarah Lane...

Sarah Lane Oh what, why are talking about it?

Leo Laporte Because – remember that Carrie Bradshaw was always a Mac user?

Sarah Lane Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So what’s funny about the movie is that they’ve got this big HP integration and in fact…

Leo Laporte HP!

Sarah Lane HP, and that’s actually why I was able to go to premiere, because it was an HP event. And – which was very nice of them. I went with Natali Del Conte who got me a ticket, she lives here in New York. So we had a little girl date, it was a lot of fun. But what we noticed right away in the movie was, that’s a MacBook, that’s clearly a MacBook, I mean they covered up the Apple logo but it’s a MacBook. It’s a new MacBook. And they are using iPhones, the other girls are running around in the desert and everything and it’s like, I don’t know if there was an HP in that movie but if it was it was very cleverly hidden.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Well here she is doing an HP ad. So you are saying that there was never an HP. They were still all the Mac laptops there?

Sarah Lane That’s correct, well hers, the other women don’t really use laptops in their show historically.

Leo Laporte She’s writing her blog, isn’t she?

Sarah Lane Right. Her sort of [ph] dial [indiscernible] (1:08:08)…

Unknown Speaker Dear diary, Mr. Big and I are having another fight.

Sarah Lane Later that day [ph] Charlotte (1:08:14) got to thinking.


Sarah Lane But, yeah, if that HP ad was shown before the movie in the theater and that’s the only HP I ever saw. So, a little confusing. And I wasn’t the only one who kind of murmured about that. But no, Carrie is not an HP user.

Leo Laporte She still uses a Mac.

Sarah Lane Unless they just – unless this sort of thing where they go, okay, well, like in the old days if we cover the Apple logo...

Leo Laporte Right.

Sarah Lane Then no one will know that that’s a Mac book. I don’t know who they are fooling.

Leo Laporte I got to tell you this whole ad is stupid because it’s supposed to be Carrie but they never show her head. It’s obviously not Carrie.

Tom Merritt Didn’t have to pay her that much.

Sarah Lane Which is, I guess that’s true because it sounds like Sarah Jessica Parker couldn’t rock that outfit, I mean it looks her but it’s very odd.

Leo Laporte It totally looks like her but why would you cut her head off the whole commercial instead of staring at her bellybutton. And by the way is this the HP slate, what is that? Jim, is that the slate? They never denied that they were going to – the rumor was they weren’t going to make the slate.

Jim Louderback Well, they kicked Windows out, right? They bought Palm and kicked Windows out.

Leo Laporte But it’s pure rumor, no HP people said we never said that. So we don’t even know what they are going to do.

Tom Merritt I think HP if I remember right, has said yes, we are going to do a webOS tablet, but they haven’t confirmed that they are not going to do a Windows slate. It’s all been like off the record comments. Sounds like no, they are going to do a Windows tablet later. They’re going to do webOS first.

Jim Louderback There is a marketing issue at HP now that David Roman is gone. So they went through some really interesting marketing issue. So David Roman is the guy from Apple who went over to HP in the Personal Systems Group, did the whole campaign, The Computer is Personal Again, and really helped drive HP from being this engineering driven company to a marketing driven company. They brought in a new – and this is interesting, so they brought in a new CMO for HP from Walt Disney and I was just talking to somebody who had been working with that person at Disney and said that he was not a very smart person or a very…

Leo Laporte Oh, that’s not good.

Jim Louderback Good marketer. And so they bring in this stuff shirt from Disney to run all marketing for HP. This is what I have been told. And they didn’t put Roman in there. David Roman is the guy who did all the great things for PSG. So what does he do? He goes to Lenovo. And he is now running marketing for Lenovo.

Leo Laporte Interesting.

Jim Louderback So HP – who knows what’s going on there with this new guy from Disney. I guess it’s going to be the Seven Dwarfs and HP trying to sell computers. David Roman is over at Lenovo. And now we see changes happening in Lenovo.

Leo Laporte Well, remember, they did show the U1, which I really liked at CES…

Jim Louderback Yes, we did a nice piece on it.

Jim Louderback It’s a cool product.

Leo Laporte It was a…

Jim Louderback It was a cool product, excuse me.

Leo Laporte A laptop that had a detachable screen that was running a weird Linux version of the OS. Now they are saying that’s going to be Android. That’s the newest.

Tom Merritt And they’ve delayed the U1, is that right?

Jim Louderback Or they have killed it or something, who knows.

Tom Merritt Yes.

Leo Laporte The Skylight smartbook and the U1 Hybrid tablet…

Tom Merritt Because I liked the U1.

Jim Louderback I did too.

Tom Merritt I had to shoot that for CNET too.

Jim Louderback Although the problem is it’s going to be expensive.

Leo Laporte It’s expensive

Jim Louderback Right, they were saying it over $1,000.

Tom Merritt Yes.

Jim Louderback You can get an iPad for a couple of 100 bucks.

Leo Laporte 500.

Jim Louderback Well, on Craigslist.

Leo Laporte Really?

Jim Louderback No, I’m kidding.

Leo Laporte I should go out and get one.

Jim Louderback You can get an iPad for 500 bucks. You can get a computer for – you can buy a Toshiba notebook for 400 bucks, 500 bucks.

Leo Laporte Apple of course started selling the iPad internationally and big lines, lots of interest, Australia, the U.K., Japan apparently eating it up, which kind of surprises me because Japan is famous for very small, very compact notebooks. They don’t have a lot of computers. They like their smartphones. Maybe the iPad is the Japanese computer.

Jim Louderback Well, there is just not a lot that’s exciting in Japanese technology right now.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Jim Louderback And I think the iPhone is kind of taking away some of the luster from Sony and some of the other companies there, the cool lot of stuff they used to build.

Tom Merritt I think that now that it’s gone worldwide that it will outsell Mac laptops.

Leo Laporte It’s amazing.

Tom Merritt Mac platforms actually, desktops and laptops.

Leo Laporte I want to win my bet.

Jim Louderback Do you think it’s cannibalizing Mac laptops?

Tom Merritt I don’t and the analysts that I have read say that it doesn’t, and this time I agree with them. I don’t think that you’d buy a tablet instead of a Mac. You might buy it instead of a netbook or something like that…

Leo Laporte In the long run…

Tom Merritt But I don’t think you buy it instead of a Mac.

Leo Laporte It helps all at Apple I think in the long run. The question is Apple’s making so much money on phones and pads, does it really – does it have the interest in the desktop that it might have had five years ago? I bet not.

Tom Merritt Yes, I think that’s a good point as desktop interest is going way down. Laptop interest, we’ll see. Maybe as we get these 36 or 32 Android tablets at COMPUTEX and HP comes out with their WebOS tablets, we’ll start to see people less interested in laptops. The problem is with all these tablets so far, you have to have a computer to operate them. I want to buy my mom who has got no Internet connectivity…

Leo Laporte It’s really stupid.

Tom Merritt And nothing…

Leo Laporte So stupid.

Tom Merritt But she has Wi-Fi where she lives.

Leo Laporte She would be perfect for this.

Tom Merritt I would love to buy her an iPad and just say, hey, here is something where you don’t have to know anything to use it and I’ve set it up to configure it for a Wi-Fi but she has to have a computer…

Leo Laporte No, you know what to do. I had a call on the radio show, asked this same thing, she said, I am 80 years old. I want an iPad. I don’t want a computer. I don’t have a computer. You have Apple activate it and then you never need to do it again.

Tom Merritt Can you – I was thinking…

Leo Laporte So you are at the Apple Store. You have – because when you first turn on the iPad, in fact this is what they are seeing this in Japan, all these people as were getting out of the store and opening up their boxes say my iPad. And then it says hook up to iTunes.

Tom Merritt But to get to an iTunes account, do you – you’re saying you do that at the store.

Leo Laporte Yes, you’d have them set up an iTunes account on the laptop

Tom Merritt And then…

Leo Laporte At the store and then walk out the door. You need never connect it again because you can buy music. You can buy apps. You don’t need to connect it again unless you want a prim.

Tom Merritt Yes, once you get it set up, you’re right, okay, maybe that’s the key. Maybe that’s the solution then.

Leo Laporte Kindle, how many – Kindle is not dead yet.

Jim Louderback I love my Kindle.

Leo Laporte My wife loves her Kindle. Anybody else here…

Tom Merritt I love my Kindle application that I use on my iPad.

Leo Laporte That’s what I use on the iPad, yeah. Sarah?

Sarah Lane Yes, it’s better on the iPad than it is on in the actual Kindle.

Jim Louderback Until you take it outside and try to read it around the pool like I did all weekends.

Sarah Lane I don’t know, man. I hold the Kindle and it does not feel good. I hate the buttons – the whole – ah, I am sorry.

Tom Merritt The actual Kindle is lighter.

Leo Laporte It’s much lighter.

Sarah Lane Kindle app is fine.

Jim Louderback I have one of the – I have a really small Kindle and it works…

Sarah Lane Because the iPad is what, 20 pounds, I mean it’s not that heavy.

Leo Laporte Well, that’s a [ph] crack smith (74:31) because people say, oh, the iPad, what is it, a pound and a half. Oh, it’s so much heavier than the Kindle.

Tom Merritt Yes, where is the [indiscernible] (74:36)?

Leo Laporte But I said, well, how heavy is a book for crying out loud.

Kevin Rose [Indiscernible] (74:40) you, the iPad is like too heavy to carry around.

Leo Laporte He is very weak.

Tom Merritt Not to carry around, to sit and hold for a long time. It starts to…

Leo Laporte He is very weak.

Tom Merritt Oh, you just – none of you have read it for that long.

Leo Laporte No, I have. You know what I do?

Tom Merritt You have to put it on your legs.

Leo Laporte I rest it on my pillow.

Tom Merritt Yes. You have to – you have to do something like that.

Leo Laporte And I read sideways. I read sideways. It’s not so bad. Kevin, iPad or Kindle?

Kevin Rose You know it’s funny. My dad has a Kindle. And we went fishing couple of weeks ago and I had an iPad and I showed it to him. And he played with it. And he said that does news as well. And I am like, yeah, and I launched the USA Today app for him and he is like, I want one. I am getting rid of my Kindle. I think everyone is going to get rid of their Kindles to go iPad. Of course I am iPad. [Indiscernible] (75:18)

Leo Laporte Interesting because in August we were supposed to see a new Kindle, thinner, lighter…

Kevin Rose Color.

Jim Louderback No, wait.

Leo Laporte Not color, not touch, but faster.

Jim Louderback So I was at SID this week.

Leo Laporte What’s that?

Jim Louderback Spoke of the TV 3.0, it’s the display – the guys who do all the display stuff, so. And they were rolling out all the different display technology. They have this super thin HD TVs.

Leo Laporte Is E Ink there too?

Jim Louderback E Ink was there and they were showing a color version of the E Ink. And a bunch of other companies were showing similar e-paper in color, now still looks washed out, doesn’t look great.

Leo Laporte A slow page turn?

Jim Louderback Yes, but color is there. I mean – and I asked the guys at E Ink. I said so why does Amazon say they are not going to do a colored Kindle for a while. He was like, ha, ha, ha, you have to ask Amazon but looked all right.

Kevin Rose Yes, the thing is with the iPad is that if you really – if you want to use it to read books, you have to install the Amazon application.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Kevin Rose Because iBooks has absolutely nothing.

Leo Laporte It’s crappy.

Kevin Rose Yes, it’s really crappy.

Leo Laporte But I kind of like it that I can buy…

Kevin Rose But the book is great.

Leo Laporte I buy stuff on the Kindle, read it sometimes on the Kindle, read it sometimes in the iPad, they sync up sometimes on my iPhone. I kind of like that.

Tom Merritt You can get it on your desktop.

Jim Louderback So you want a little [ph] in Sybase ball (76:24) though on the iPhone in the iTunes Store for books, the guys who ran the podcasting group at Apple for a long time…

Leo Laporte Scott.

Jim Louderback Scott and Pete are now on the iBooks site.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Kevin Rose That’s awesome.

Jim Louderback So it will probably get better.

Leo Laporte They are great.

Jim Louderback Because those guys are great

Leo Laporte But they got to make the deals. It’s not how great those guys are. It’s how great the publishers – and you would think publishers will be so anxious to break Amazon’s chokehold on their business.

Tom Merritt There have been a couple of books that have been exclusive to the iPad. You couldn’t get them on the Kindle. They were able to sneak them.

Leo Laporte No, I found a book that I wanted that I had to buy on the iPad. I couldn’t buy it in the Kindle Store.

Tom Merritt Yes.

Leo Laporte But those are I think few and far between. Is there a Kindle for Android yet? I know that that’s in beta. Let me just check and see. Because I just love the – I think Amazon is sharp. All they have to do is make this Kindle play everywhere. They don’t – they aren’t – are they in it for the – do they need to sell Kindle hardware?

Jim Louderback No, no.

Tom Merritt I think they just did the right thing which is to separate the Kindle Store people from the Kindle hardware people.

Jim Louderback That is right.

Tom Merritt And said both of you go after it.

Leo Laporte Oh, it’s two divisions?

Tom Merritt Yes.

Leo Laporte Ah. Smart.

Tom Merritt And so that’s why you see the apps everywhere because the Kindle Store people are like we want it.

Leo Laporte We want to sell books.

Tom Merritt Hardware people will – just got to catch up on their own. And so they are not totally out of it yet. But they are competing on their own.

Leo Laporte We’re going to take a break, come back, peek in the books and Amazon and talk a little bit about Audible books are the best audio books. Really they are the last audio book place out there. I suppose somebody else is doing it but Audible’s just so head and shoulders above the rest.

Tom Merritt Cassettes.

Leo Laporte Yes, you can still get cassettes probably somewhere, 75,000 books, it’s really hard. When you get to the Audible book store, you want them all. That’s why I have a Platinum account. That’s two books a month. And believe me, I listen to them. I am just finishing up The Time Traveler's Wife, and I have got the Stieg Larsson trilogy on…

Kevin Rose Is it good?

Leo Laporte I haven’t started it. It’s my next book. He wrote of course The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. And then he followed that up – what was the next one that he came up with right after that and then now the new one is out, The Girl Who Kicked the Hornets' Nest, supposed to be wonderful. Can’t wait to read those.

So now I can’t get you three books free. But I can get you your first two free. Go to and you can get The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. That’s the first one. The Girl Who Played with Fire, that’s the second one. And if you are not hooked, you can quit at any time. You get to keep those books. They are yours, free for forever.

But I got to warn you. I have a feeling, if you listen to those first two, you are going to be listening to The Girl Who Kicked the Hornets' Nest.

Kevin Rose Can I make a recommendation, Leo, for one?

Leo Laporte I’d love it.

Kevin Rose Audible, I just listened to Rework…

Leo Laporte Yes.

Kevin Rose By Jason Fried.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Kevin Rose Unbelievably good book, wow.

Leo Laporte A must…

Kevin Rose [Ph] Entrepreneurs (79:14) going to get started, amazing.

Leo Laporte Jason and David Heinemeier Hansson are the – were the founders of the 37signals. David of course wrote Ruby on Rails for 37signals. And they – it's not their first book. We had them on net@night actually just a little while ago talking about this book, Rework, yes, very nice audio book.

So you see the problem? Now I have got four books for you. It’s nice when something is so great, you just can’t stop. If you have felt like reading has left you behind because your life is so busy, don’t forget, you’ve got lots of time to read, in the car, when you are commuting, driving the kids around, doing housework, at the gym. I listen everyday for an hour a day. That’s a lot of reading. After a while it builds up.

You still can read. All those times that you can’t hold a book, listen to, plays on over 500 devices, including all the iPhone, iPad, iPod devices, the Zune, the Kindle even,, go there right now, sign up for that Platinum account, get two books absolutely free. I’m so excited. I love it. You know it’s funny I get torn because when a book ends it’s sad, and the Time Traveler’s Wife is wonderful, that would actually might be a good one for Sword and Laser.

Tom Merritt Yes, we have that on our show.

Leo Laporte A little sci-fi [indiscernible] (01:20:28) and is beautiful.

Tom Merritt [Ph] Iron Man (80:30) called it one of the best sci-fi books of the decade so far.

Leo Laporte Really?

Tom Merritt Of the decade – last decade.

Leo Laporte You know what it reminds me a little bit of Memento and these other books they play with memory and time. And – well Memento wasn’t a book, was a movie. But the idea of being a time traveler and how it affects your relationship is fascinating. I just love it. It’s not – there is no science in it.

Tom Merritt It’s a science fiction [indiscernible] (01:20:50) Kurt Vonnegut?

Leo Laporte Yes, sure. That the whole point Slaughterhouse-Five, isn’t it?

Tom Merritt Yes, exactly.

Leo Laporte That’s a good book.

Kevin Rose I just finished the Foundation.

Leo Laporte They just put that out on Audible. I’m so excited.

Jim Louderback Did you read the – all the editions as well the first three…

Kevin Rose No, [indiscernible] (01:21:07)

Jim Louderback And then…

Leo Laporte It goes on forever.

Jim Louderback Yeah, well the – yeah, he wrote the fourth Foundation book.

Leo Laporte Do they go downhill Jim or are they as good? I think the Foundation trilogy is just brilliant.

Jim Louderback The fourth Foundation book is good. I think they start to go downhill and then other people start to play on the Foundation universe and those…

Leo Laporte It’s like Dune, it got to be like Dune.

Jim Louderback Yeah, right, exactly, you can’t – there are, how many Dune books can you read? Even Dune went downhill even when Frank Herbert was writing them.

Leo Laporte I just want to thank Audible. This just came out in April, Foundation, this is the first time it’s been on audio, and so another one where Audible just reached out and made these books happen. Did you listen to it or did you read, Kevin?

Kevin Rose No, I read it, but I’m going to listen to the next one.

Leo Laporte Scott Brick reads them, he is one of their better readers, I love him. Yes, they’ve got Foundation and Empire, Second Foundation, that’s the big three.

Jim Louderback Yes, Foundation, Foundation and Empire, Second Foundation.

Leo Laporte Yes, the Galactic Empire, Hari Seldon, psychohistory.

Jim Louderback Psychohistorian.

Leo Laporte Yes, great stuff.

Jim Louderback Great social – think about how social – sociology applies across the entire galaxy of planets.

Leo Laporte So, this is a good panel to ask this about. This net neutrality thing, the FCC wants to assert it and they have said we have the right even though this district court in Washington DC said it didn’t quite do it right. The FCC says okay but we do have the right because we are going to regulate it. And now 73 Democrats wrote a letter – this is kind of weird saying drop the net neutrality rules. That’s a lot of a House Democrats saying, no, we don’t – what is it, is it – what is – is it libertarian, they don’t want the government involved?

Jim Louderback Yes, Democrats aren’t usually libertarians, are they?

Leo Laporte You think they want the regulation?

Tom Merritt My take on it is it’s lobbyists.

Leo Laporte They don’t even know what they are talking about.

Jim Louderback Lobbyists for Comcast.

Tom Merritt It’s lobbyists for Telcos for ISPs of all large kinds.

Jim Louderback And large media companies that are being purchased by Telcos.

Tom Merritt Because my position has always been we don’t need net neutrality rules if we have enough competition.

Leo Laporte Competition is the key.

Tom Merritt But we don’t have enough competition especially on the backbone.

Leo Laporte Here is what I’d like…

Tom Merritt We have plenty of bandwidth, we just have people who have a vested self-interest, Comcast and AT&T and others, in putting in a tiered Internet where they can charge their competitors more to deliver video than they do because they are all in the content game.

Leo Laporte But there is this thing…

Sarah Lane I mean that – hasn’t that been part of the muddy waters of government for long time, and just because it’s the Internet and net neutrality that we are talking about doesn’t mean that there is a little bit of that going on – I mean it’s kind of like obviously, right?

Jim Louderback Well, Comcast admitted to the fact that they were actually doing this to Bittorent. Right?

Tom Merritt Right. Well, yes, and they said we have the right to do.

Jim Louderback And look.

Tom Merritt They said we are not going to do it anymore.

Jim Louderback Yes, do you believe them? Look, this is – it’s a – in a capitalistic environment if you have control over things and you can make your stuff better than other people stuff that are competing with you, you are going to do everything you can to make your things more viable and their things less viable.

Leo Laporte That’s what this letter says. Dear Chairman Genachowski, we are writing to reinforce the strong bipartisan consensus among policymakers, industry participants and analysts that the success of the broadband marketplace stems from policies that encourage competition, private investment and legal certainty.

So Comcast’s point of view is, oh well there is competition but we know there is not competition.

Tom Merritt Not enough.

Jim Louderback And here is the real problem with competition also. I tried to do this. I have AT&T DSL at home and I was just pissed off at them, and I was like I’m going to go to Comcast. Call up Comcast and like [indiscernible] (01:24:53), oh, yes it’s $42 a month, and I was paying $30, well, we can all talk, pay the extra $12 for more bandwidth. But they said that price is only if you sign up for television, and for phone and all these other Comcrap stick stuff, and I’m like, look I like my DirectTV; I’m not changing to Comcast television.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jim Louderback And it was like $60 a month

Leo Laporte Right.

Jim Louderback So they wanted to charge me double. And I think that pricing problem is as big a deal as the other issues of them slowing down torrents.

Leo Laporte Caps, slowing down bits. The letter goes on to say the expanded FCC jurisdiction over broadband that has been proposed and the manner in which it would be implemented are unprecedented and create regulatory uncertainty. The controversy surrounding that approach will likely serve as a distraction – this is Democrats talking – from what should be our nation’s foremost communications priority, bringing broadband every corner of America. But is it really a tit-for-tat?

Tom Merritt No, I don’t think so. I don’t think you can say that if you put in net neutrality regulation, that means that you’re distracted somehow from providing broadband to the rural areas. But there is a point in that letter, which is what we should be focusing on is creating an environment where there is more competition, where you have more choice. That should be the priority.

Leo Laporte But it’s not – I got to tell you, this is not the subtext of this letter. The subtext of the letter is – and it’s taken right at the Comcast / Verizon playbook is – oh, this will cause regulatory uncertainty and we won’t be able to invest in infrastructure, because we don’t know what's going to happen or if we can monetize our investments. So if you really want us to build out broadband, you better give us a free hand to run our business as we choose.

Tom Merritt And that’s a bunch of crap because…

Leo Laporte That is a bunch of crap.

Tom Merritt They have been taking government money for decades to not build out their infrastructure. So why would things change if a few of these regulations go in place? And I’m not even saying I’m in favor of these regulations. But this reasoning is crap. And that’s what I – that’s what I object to. Is the idea that somehow, if the FCC were to put in this very lightweight regulation, that they would stop the slow infrastructure build-out that they already have. They haven’t been building out their infrastructure anyway and they have tons of subsidies. Why would that change?

Jim Louderback Verizon already said they are going to stop. They’re like, we’re done, we’re not doing anymore of our fiber installs.

Leo Laporte Well that’s too bad. Really?

Jim Louderback Yeah.

Leo Laporte Well, it’s amazing they got as far as they did. Everybody I talked to said, oh, this is completely a PR stunt by Verizon. There’s no way they can monetize this, it’s going to cost some $5,000 per subscriber to build out FIOS, there’s no way they’re going to make that money back. It’s a PR stunt. So that people will think Verizon is faster and will buy Verizon DSL. Does that – what you just said maybe makes that true.

Jim Louderback Well, they did a pretty big buildout, [indiscernible] (87:31).

Tom Merritt I’m interested in this, I don’t know, have you guys heard of Allied Fiber? I saw it on GigaOM.

Leo Laporte You’re going to interview him.

Tom Merritt This weekend. I’m going to try to get Hunter Newby, their CEO, to talk on Tuesday. They have a plan to put in a brand new fiber network coast-to-coast, dark fiber; and run it neutrally. To say you know what?

Leo Laporte Hallelujah!

Tom Merritt We’re – all we’re going to do is run this network. We’re not going to get into content, we’re not going to get anything else, and we’re going to wholesale it out so that any ISP that wants to run on it can run on it.

Leo Laporte I’ve been saying this for a long time. There’s enough money in this. If you sell it wholesale like that, it doesn’t cost that much. There’s enough dark fiber, switches aren’t that expensive. Once you do the build-out, there’s not a whole lot of additional expense to maintain it. This is a good test.

Jim Louderback Well, you know what, I think it would be a good test, even if this Net Neutrality stuff goes in, price-based or access-based, they should make it so it’s only for people who serve more than 100 or 150,000 customers. So that we can get those small ISPs back that serve communities…

Leo Laporte Yeah, I agree.

Jim Louderback And make it easy for them to happen. You remember Brett Glass? He runs an ISP in Cheyenne, Wyoming.

Leo Laporte Is he really?

Jim Louderback Yeah.

Leo Laporte He was a writer for ZDNet.

Jim Louderback Yeah, wrote for a bunch of different places. The guy’s running a little town ISP in Cheyenne, Wyoming. And Net Neutrality stuff if it put in place would probably kill his business.

Leo Laporte Why is that?

Jim Louderback Because of the additional restrictions that would be put…

Tom Merritt It’s like Sarbanes-Oxley, it’s a stranglehold.

Jim Louderback Yeah. And he writes actually very…

Leo Laporte Well that’s – that’s what they’re saying.

Jim Louderback Yeah.

Leo Laporte Too much regulation kills our business.

Jim Louderback So let’s have little – anything – you serve more than a couple hundred thousand people, you got to follow the rules.

Leo Laporte Comcast can afford it. Verizon – may not be able to. And I do like to think you have to do something to support these independent ISPs. I talked to our guy here, that’s where we get our big bandwidth for the streams. And Dane Jasper’s a great guy. And he says really – they are putting in fiber in Sebastopol up here. He says they are really crunching us. They are really…

Sarah Lane Set town! Woo!

Leo Laporte Yeah! Represent! Sebastopol.

Sarah Lane Can I be really, really rude for a second and tell you guys I had dinner reservations and I have to go?

Leo Laporte Where are you going?

Sarah Lane Where are we are going? Some Italian place.

Leo Laporte Oh, have fun. Well, we’re done. We’re done. We’re just ranting on.

Sarah Lane Sorry. I didn’t want to interrupt you guys, but I just didn’t want to sign off.

Leo Laporte Is it in the West Village? Where – where is the…?

Sarah Lane No, I think Upper – either Upper East or Upper West, something?

Tom Merritt She doesn’t want to tell people because then all the fans will come over and have dinner with her.

Sarah Lane 90th? 70th? Yeah.

Leo Laporte We went to a great Italian restaurant in the West Village a couple of years ago. It was the best place. It felt like a scene out of Goodfellas. There was nowhere to sit, so brought out a table, they whipped out the – they slid people over. Dr. Phil was there. I don’t know why, maybe they liked me, I don’t know but, they…

Sarah Lane Dr. Phil! the icing on the cake!

Leo Laporte The icing on the cake. Dr. Phil was there.

Jim Louderback Could you imagine Leo and Dr. Phil together? I think that time would stop. They would be so wild.

Leo Laporte I waved at him.

Jim Louderback You two – I think you should do a show together.

Leo Laporte I said yo, Phil what’s happenin’?

All right, go ahead have a wonderful time. Sarah Lane, it’s so great, you’re coming back, we’ll see you in studio…

Sarah Lane I’ll be there Tuesday, I will be there, I want to be part of the action for the inaugural T&T! Woo hoo! Go Tom. And just to – you know, see everybody, settle in my new desk and all that good stuff.

Leo Laporte Yeah, you got a desk, we gave you a desk and apparently there’s a PS3 waiting for you, PS2…

Tom Merritt PS2. Yeah – PS2 3286, yeah.

Leo Laporte This is a big difference.

Jim Louderback Is it the 386 SX or full on?

Tom Merritt 286.

Jim Louderback Oh, it’s a 286.

Tom Merritt Yeah, it’s a 3286.

Jim Louderback Okay.

Sarah Lane I’ll play Farmville, I’ll be fine.

Leo Laporte And I believe we’re having lunch catered for you and…

Sarah Lane Yes.

Leo Laporte It’s going to be a lovely vegetarian lunch.

Sarah Lane I’m so happy. I’m so excited.

Leo Laporte Yeah, [indiscernible] (91:19) we’ll see it – Sarah Lane soon to be host of iPad today and the GreenTech Today show on the TWiT network. Thank you, Sarah. Have a great dinner.

Sarah Lane Thanks so much. Sorry to leave early. Enjoy the rest of your guys’ conversation. Good to see you all and thanks for watching, everybody. Good night!

Leo Laporte Bye, Sarah.

Tom, you know, we can wrap up. I’m kind of done, unless you have a story or something that’s on your mind, either of you that or three of you that’s…

Jim Louderback You know – I just think that – been keeping track on [indiscernible] (92:00) talking with guys about what they’re doing with the TVs and everybody at [indiscernible] (91:53) was talking about 3D TVs and how they’re spending a lot of those money on putting 3D and – it’s really the Internet access that I think is most fascinating…

Leo Laporte I agree. Well, of course you and I run IPTV networks, so of course we think that.

Jim Louderback So what do you think about Google TV, Leo? I think it’s going to be interesting.

Leo Laporte I’m underwhelmed, to be honest with you. I mean this is Apple’s little hobby that hasn’t really taken off. Google basically seems like they’re adding a layer of Internet on top of it. I don’t see people wanting to have the Internet on their TV. I do see a lot of people with a computer in their lap Twittering, do you think it’s – it should be on the TV? Could it ever be a lean back experience?

Jim Louderback I think so. YouTube’s coming out with their – YouTube lean back, I don’t know. Kevin, what do you think? What do you think about Google TV?

Kevin Rose I don’t know. I agree with Leo, I think you have your iPad on your lap, you have your laptop in your lap, those are the devices that you’re going to use to surf the net. I don’t think you’re going to want to use your TV to surf the net. We’ve had Internet on our TVs for a long time now, through media center boxes and you name it. And the only thing it’s ever been really good for is kind of like streaming Netflix, you know? Or your Xbox 360 and watching shows on like you know…

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Kevin Rose You get an episode of Lost and you download it later.

Leo Laporte So we’re in agreement – the idea of getting content over the Internet is exciting. I just don’t think what you – what Google is doing for this is that exciting.

Kevin Rose Yeah.

Jim Louderback Well, the – what they will be able to do as look there is, look: there is so much stuff out there now and you know more is being created every day. And in fact we just surveyed our audience and found that last year, under a quarter of them actually watched any of our shows on a big screen.

Leo Laporte Discoverability is a problem.

Jim Louderback Just – right, but 45% now are watching in some form on their big screen TV.

Leo Laporte Wow!

Jim Louderback The thing that Google brings is the ability to go in and say, what’s that Leo Laporte show?

Leo Laporte You could find it. You could find it.

Jim Louderback And have it pop up. I don’t know, I think there’s something there. I think if they can make it work right, then maybe there’s guy from Sidekick Palm is going to work on this instead of Android.

Tom Merritt One of the most frequent questions I got at CNET when I was doing The Real Deal was – what is the best way to get Internet stuff on my TV? And they were talking about video specification, things like Hulu and Netflix. And we need that one box that makes it easy to get everything. And that is what Google was saying they intended to do was, we don’t care if it’s over the air, coming through cable or satellite or the Internet, we’re going to make one interface that says, you tell us what you want to watch, we’ll put it up on the screen for you.

And if they actually deliver on that, I think that could be pretty revolutionary. I don’t know whether they will as much they promised.

Kevin Rose Well – and I’m hoping that this is the first step and like a la carte television down the road.

Leo Laporte That’s what we all want, right?

Kevin Rose …to say that, I only want ABC, I only want TNT, and to be able to pick those channels, and not have to pay Comcast.

Jim Louderback And the other thing that will be interesting is, you know, look: no one’s going to want to do Twitter on their TV, right? No one’s going to be posting status updates on the TV, because the TV is a group experience, right? You’re going to have your iPad, your cellphone or whatever for that.

But for a large screen experience, whether it’s video or something else, why not? And I just think – there’s a great YouTube show out there called Annoying Orange. And I think it’s really, really funny and cool and it’s really annoying and stupid, but I just said it. So now how are you going to go find Annoying Orange?

Leo Laporte Well, you can do it on Apple TV for instance, but it’s a pain and I’ve never done it. It doesn’t work that well. So the devil’s in the implementation.

Jim Louderback Give me your phone – one of your phones.

Leo Laporte Well, I love the idea that you could do with the phone.

Jim Louderback So then the thing you do is, you’re watching your TV and you’re like, hey, can you find Annoying Orange for me, TV?

Leo Laporte Right.

Jim Louderback And it pops up and there it is.

Leo Laporte That was part of the demo. Yeah, that was part of the demo.

Who was it was talking yester – sometime – that he said, we’ll see. We’ll see. DIRECTV promised this kind of integration, never delivered. We’ll see if Dish really does this, we’ll see if Sony really does this, or if it’s just a lot of people kissing up to Eric Schmidt.

Jim Louderback Yeah, you know the thing that scares me, is if you put it in your television, I talked to the guys of Roku, the CEO of Roku said, look, we did nine software updates in the fourth quarter of our Roku…

Leo Laporte True. They just did one this week.

Jim Louderback Right. And on the television? These guys are not set up to do software updates. We’re doing this Yahoo! Connected TV platform for Revision 3, we’re going to roll it out. We’ve got a Sony Bravia TV to test it on, the 2009 Sony Bravia TV. We put it on – videos not working. We’re like, man, we screwed up on our App. We call up Sony, they’re like oh, video doesn’t work on the Bravia 2009. And we’re like okay, can you get a software update for us? They’re like, oh, no, you have to buy a Bravia 2010 to get video to work on the player.

Leo Laporte [Laughter] you have to buy a new one!

Jim Louderback Look, that is not an answer for a consumer!

Leo Laporte Right.

Kevin Rose On my TV, I just [indiscernible] (96:16) new Samsung, it’s first TV that I’ve ever owned that actually does software updates.

Leo Laporte The 7500? Is that what you got?

Kevin Rose I don’t know which one this is.

Leo Laporte With Yahoo! widgets?

Kevin Rose It will tell you [indiscernible] (96:38) has all the Yahoo! widgets and all that stuff, you just flash the firmware and reboot it. It’s really cool.

Leo Laporte I think it’s the 7500.

Leo Laporte I get all that stuff on my TV. I just need a Gateway Media Center, Apple TV, a Roku, a Sony PS3, an XBoX 360…


Leo Laporte And what about the rumors that Apple is going to do a $100 Apple TV that’s streaming only, no-storage, running…

Jim Louderback That’s small flash, small flash storage, right?

Tom Merritt I think that is a really interesting way to bring this platform into reality, out of the hobby, for two reasons. One is, it says, hey, we’re going to start the cloud storage system for you, so you don’t have to worry about [indiscernible] (97:00) all the time. And I think the cloud can also be your home network. Because one of the ways I use Apple TV right now is I just stream stuff off of the various computers we have, because I don’t want to store it on this tiny Apple TV, I bought the first generation.

Leo Laporte Now Kevin, you’re always been getting Apple rumors. Do you think we’ll see this June 7 when Steve Jobs takes the stage?

Kevin Rose I heard that they were working on something to compete with Spotify. So a streaming service, a streaming music service. So it’s like a [indiscernible] (97:25).

Leo Laporte Like Lala, right.

Kevin Rose Right, that’s a good point. So that’s actually what they’ll probably use as the web interface for that.

Jim Louderback Yeah, we’re going to see a lot of great advances on the TV [indiscernible] (97:36) coming out, the pop box is coming out, this Apple thing, Google, we already have the connected Blu-Ray players are actually pretty good for Netflix…

Leo Laporte [ph] BD Live and all that (97:45).

Jim Louderback Well, the Panasonic one actually has a really nice interface. It does Picasa…

Leo Laporte Roku now will let you choose your Netflix instant play movies from the Roku box.

Kevin Rose The Roku [indiscernible] (97:53) they are continued to do great stuff with UFC and other…

Leo Laporte And if you don’t have a Roku get it, so that you can watch Revision3 and TWiT on Roku. I mean, it’s a really great way – and streaming is coming, we keep being told that we’re going to have streaming on the Roku very soon.

Jim Louderback Yeah. Well, there’s streaming – they just – they’re doing all the tests with UFC, the ultimate fight stuff, and they’ve been doing live streaming there.

Leo Laporte And the Major League Baseball streamed last year.

Jim Louderback The Major League Baseball experience is awesome.

Leo Laporte It’s really good.

Jim Louderback I gave up DIRECTV, extra innings where I was paying a couple of hundred bucks a year for the Roku one.

Leo Laporte You know who’s smart? MLB is smart. Because you – they get the 100 bucks there, you pay 30 bucks for the iPad app and you can watch the streaming on the iPad, you can watch – if you’re a baseball fan, Major League Baseball, it’s funny – for a long time I thought David Stern was the bright guy at the NBA, MLB is leap – leapfrogged them.

Tom Merritt Well. Major League Baseball Advanced Media, which is a separate company for Major League Baseball are responsible for that…

Leo Laporte Very smart.

Tom Merritt And it was smart move on MLB to say you guys know what you’re doing…

Leo Laporte You do it.

Tom Merritt You go and do it.

Jim Louderback And they are – like the Boxy Major League Baseball app is also very good. So I want to see football do that. But that will be a while.

Kevin Rose It does. It does. I mean, you have to have DIRECTV, I have the DIRECTV app on my iPhone.

Leo Laporte Right, you have to have…

Kevin Rose …streaming on the iPhone.

Jim Louderback I have the same thing. Exactly, I have DIRECTV, it works, but I want to see them do it where I don’t have to pay DIRECTV.

Leo Laporte Now this is that suburbia thing. Because the app, they control it entirely versus maybe something like sling where you have a slingbox and you could watch whatever is on your TV on your iPad, and they’re going to do an iPad app.

Tom Merritt Yeah.

Leo Laporte So that’s the interesting thing – if I’m Major League Baseball, I prefer the suburbia. I prefer the gated community, because I get all the revenue, I control the experience, Major League Baseball on the iPad is spectacular…

Tom Merritt What they did that was really clever too was they said, it’s only one subscription. Once you buy your [indiscernible] (99:38) you can use it on the Roku, you can use it in the iPad. But they charge you for the iPad app.

Leo Laporte 20 bucks, yeah. But this is nicely done. Oh The Giants won, that’s good. [Laughter]. Kevin Rose, you know, what this is – this is how TWiT started was – and you were there Kevin, was – we were at the 21st Amendment Brewery right after Macworld in 2005. And it was just like this. We just sat around and it was so much fun. And here we are 250 episodes later, I’m still – 250, Kevin, I’m so glad you could be here. Thank you.

Kevin Rose Awesome.

Leo Laporte Jim Louderback, Tom Merritt, it’s been really fun. And Kevin, you come back now when you got Digg 4 and we can’t wait to see that.

Kevin Rose I’m going to drive out and we’ll hang out at the cottage.

Leo Laporte Oh good. That will be really nice to have you – really nice to have you.

Kevin Rose is at, he’s the CEO there and this will be the – this is your first big CEO thing you’re going to do, this rollout?

Kevin Rose Not for long, I’m trying to find a replacement.

Leo Laporte Oh, you’re the iCEO?

Kevin Rose I am the – yeah exactly, I’m basically going to fill those shoes for another couple of months until we find someone full time. So.

Leo Laporte You are doing such a great job, I don’t know if the Board will let you.

Kevin Rose We’ll see.

Leo Laporte We’ll see. Let me say we’re proud of Kevin, aren’t we?

Tom Merritt He’s done so well.

Leo Laporte It’s really neat, it’s really neat. Thank you, Kevin.

Tom Merritt, so excited, June 1, TNT makes its debut on the TWiT network. Go to to subscribe, in fact it’s already climbing up the charts on iTunes, which is weird.

Tom Merritt Yeah, last I looked it was number three overall in the U.S. and was number two in Canada. And there’s no shows. No shows on it. No pressure, thanks.

Leo Laporte No shows [indiscernible] (101:19) but you are hot.

Tom Merritt You mean overexposed or…?

Leo Laporte Yeah, I don’t know exactly what to say. Anyway, Tom, we’ll see you Tuesday.

Tom Merritt Yeah, I can’t wait.

Leo Laporte Becky Worley, Sarah will be here, I’ll be here. It’s going to be a party. And maybe you – you can come too, Jim, if you want.

Jim Louderback Not Tuesday, I’ll be with Kara.

Leo Laporte Ah, you’re going to [ph] D (101:51). Boy, what a line-up there.

Tom Merritt Yes. I’ll hitch you up to be a guest on one of these.

Leo Laporte Steve Ballmer’s going to be there, Steve Case. Julius Genachowski, the Chairman of the FCC. Steve Jobs. Alan Mulally of Ford, he’s a great guy. I really like Alan. Ray Ozzie from Microsoft. The co-founder and Demand Media, Richard Rosenblatt, I’m going to ask him some questions.

Jim Louderback Well, ask him about how their content…

Leo Laporte Some interesting questions. President and CEO of NPR, Vivian Schiller. Mark Zuckerberg will be there as well, that’s going to be fun. You going out to [ph] D (102:12), Kevin?

Kevin Rose I’m not, no. I’m staying in town, I got too much stuff to work on.

Leo Laporte I don’t think if you were your name would be on there. We were hoping that Kara and Walt would join us today, but they just got too busy. We’ll have them on another time. Thank you all for being here. Thank you Tom Merritt, thank you Jim Louderback. Go to and watch that new Penn Jillette show, it’s fantastic, and the new gaming show…

Jim Louderback Food Mob.

Leo Laporte And Food Mob, I forgot!

Jim Louderback Food Mob, awesome show.

Leo Laporte We are getting every…

Jim Louderback We should get [Indiscernible] (102:40) on sometime, that guy is…

Leo Laporte I’d love to.

Jim Louderback He’s awesome.

Leo Laporte I’d love to. That’d be great.

Jim Louderback Yes.

Leo Laporte I’m Leo Laporte. We thank you so much for joining us today on TWiT. We hope you come back. You can watch the show live. We do it every Sunday at 6:00 p.m. Eastern, 3:00 p.m. Pacific. You can watch on your TWiT.TV web page, the TWiT app for the iPad, the TWiT app for the iPhone, soon to be on other platforms near you.

I guess that’s all there to say. Another TWiT is in the can.

Go ahead and say it.

Jim Louderback No, no, that’s a way to pull a cork out of it’s – if you having trouble with it.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Jim Louderback It involves putting it between your legs.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jim Louderback And pull it.

Leo Laporte Right.

Kevin Rose Please.

Jim Louderback That’s why I wasn’t going to say it. But Leo of course egged me on.

Leo Laporte I did.

Jim Louderback Of course, it didn’t take that much egging.

Kevin Rose Have we started the podcast yet?


Tom Merritt This is the podcast.

Kevin Rose With a bottle of wine.

Leo Laporte We can start now, I just didn’t want to start while she was straining.

Sarah Lane No, no, no, I can talk and strain. Not a problem.

Leo Laporte Okay, all right. It’s time for TWiT the show, go ahead.

Sarah Lane Sorry, no, I’m, that’s enough, go ahead.

Leo Laporte Be my guest, just speak.

Sarah Lane I’m ready for TWiT.

Leo Laporte Speak now, that’s good.

Sarah Lane Let’s join…

Jim Louderback If you leave it like that and put it back in the mini bar, do you think they’ll charge you?

Leo Laporte Half a course.

Sarah Lane Yes.

Leo Laporte Half a cork.

Sarah Lane They sure do.

Leo Laporte Half a cork on.

Visit Pods in Print for bespoke transcription services.