TWiT 251/Transcript

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Episode 251


This transcript is provided by our friends at Pods in Print

Leo Laporte Audio bandwidth for this WEEK in TECH is provided by AOL Music and, where you can get free mp3s, exclusive interviews and more. Video bandwidth for TWiT is provided by Cachefly at

This is TWiT, this WEEK in TECH, Episode 251, recorded June 6, 2010: Flop Sweat.

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It’s time for TWiT, this WEEK in TECH, the show that covers all the latest tech news and kind of a young panel today making me look hip with it. Actually could go either way, could make me look really old and out of it. Starting with Mark Milian from the Los Angeles Times always glad to have Mark on the show, you’re in town today? That’s nice!

Mark Milian Always great to be here especially in studio.

Leo Laporte I asked if you are here for WWDC, but you haven’t decided whether to go or not?

Mark Milian Well, I ran into Gate from Technium and Alexia from SF Weekly earlier and our plan is to just sneak in, because I didn’t plan in advance.

Leo Laporte Oh, sure, because Apple has so little security shouldn’t be any trouble.

Mark Milian I think we’ll do Mission Impossible stuff from the rafters.

Leo Laporte What? Are you going to have rubber masks?

Mark Milian Maybe.

Leo Laporte I love that – I love that when they peel off the mask and look it’s not, it’s Martin Landau. We thought it was Mark Milian but it’s Martin Landau also here with us. Glad to have you back, but the last time I saw you Julio Ojeda-Zapata was at – in January at the iPad announcement.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata Quite right.

Leo Laporte You came back out to the…

Julio Ojeda-Zapata It was the first time you and I shook hands at the…

Leo Laporte That’s right, it’s very nice to meet you…

Julio Ojeda-Zapata …IRL.

Leo Laporte …in real life as they say. First time on the show in real life as a matter of fact.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata And I am the other [indiscernible] (2:45) on the show so I can get on. [ph] Not to worry about that (2:48).

Leo Laporte Yeah, yeah that’s true, you got a little grey hair there. From the St. Paul Pioneer Press and the web blog, Good to have you Julio, you are out here for WWDC, you would admit that. All right, good to know. Also with us for the first time, very glad to get him on. I’ve been dying to get him on for a long time from Engadget. He is the Editor-in-Chief, he’s also the host of Engadget’s great Gadget Podcast Joshua Topolsky. It’s good to have you Joshua.

Joshua Topolsky Thanks for having me, good to be here.

Leo Laporte You like Josh or Joshua?

Joshua Topolsky Whatever you prefer is fine with me. They both work, I respond to both.

Leo Laporte Good to have you.

Joshua Topolsky Ladies’ choice.

Leo Laporte You’re in a hotel, where are you?

Joshua Topolsky I am in San Francisco. I am in a few blocks from Moscone. You want my exact location?

Leo Laporte Yeah, I already have that on Foursquare, it’s okay.

Joshua Topolsky Yeah.

Leo Laporte No, I’m – I’m just – so you’re based in New York?

Joshua Topolsky Yeah, I am in Brooklyn. Well, I live in Brooklyn, I usually work from…

Leo Laporte Cool.

Joshua Topolsky Office in [indiscernible] (3:44), but we have [ph] AOL’s (3:43) offices in the city.

Leo Laporte And you have – you have the beautiful offices on the Lincoln Circle, that’s really nice spot there.

Joshua Topolsky Yeah, we’ve moved now though. It’s there all downtown.

Leo Laporte Oh, really?

Joshua Topolsky Yeah!

Leo Laporte What about that beautiful building they built there with a ding, and a hung, and a ding, that’s there…

Joshua Topolsky I think we lost it in the divorce.

Leo Laporte You’re kidding, so that’s now Time Warner’s?

Joshua Topolsky Yeah, I don’t think they use that anymore.

Leo Laporte Columbus Circle not Lincoln, it’s Columbus Circle.

Joshua Topolsky Yeah.

Leo Laporte But it’s a beautiful building. They just built that.

Joshua Topolsky I think I haven’t been there since my initial interview about working with Engadget.

Leo Laporte Well, never mind, downtown’s better anyway, it’s hipper.

Joshua Topolsky It’s cooler.

Leo Laporte Yeah, it’s much more with it. So, you’re in town I take it for WWDC as well?

Joshua Topolsky Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we’re going to be covering it live, so.

Leo Laporte Live blogging…

Joshua Topolsky As live as possible.

Leo Laporte Yeah, well, you won’t make the mistake I made and I’ve never been invited back. I just picked up my laptop at the iPad announcement and pointed it at Steve.

Joshua Topolsky I heard about this.

Leo Laporte Yeah, he gave me the stink eye too I could tell he could see me.

Joshua Topolsky You knew? He probably [ph] has a button (4:44), right because it’s kind of a…

Leo Laporte I was surprised that there wasn’t an injector seat actually, I was surprised I didn’t go flying through the ceiling but I do notice that I haven’t been invited to an Apple event since but of course it’s only been a few months.

Joshua Topolsky Yeah.

Leo Laporte Time heals all wounds. There you go.

Joshua Topolsky [indiscernible] (4:58)

Leo Laporte Oh, shut up. I was trying to be on the optimistic side.

Joshua Topolsky Are you – you’re going tomorrow?

Leo Laporte Well, like I said I haven’t actually been invited to any Apple event in a while.

Joshua Topolsky They might not put it well for your…

Leo Laporte And I don’t care.

Joshua Topolsky Send them flowers.

Leo Laporte Steve and I, we’ve had this off and on love-hate relationship for many decades. It’s okay. He knows I love him deeply in spirit. Do you think gentlemen, gentlemen of the press, I’ve got some theories about what will happen at WWDC but I am curious what you think, I guess we all agree a new iPhone will be announced.

Mark Milian Oh, yes.

Joshua Topolsky Maybe.

Leo Laporte Did you say maybe?

Joshua Topolsky Never know.

Leo Laporte You don’t know, do you?

Joshua Topolsky [indiscernible] (5:42) is there a new iPhone tomorrow, something has gone horribly wrong.

Leo Laporte Well, it’s true that there’s such expectation when Steve takes the stage that if he just says I want to talk about iPhone for the SDK, your developers, let’s talk a little bit about some of the features, the API, some of the hooks we are building in for you developers and then leaves that he would be eaten alive by the press, right, because what, you’re running, you can’t do that.

Joshua Topolsky It’s be very odd. I mean at this point, I think we expect it. It’s – this is what happens to WWDC. They are going to talk about a lot of other stuff.

Leo Laporte Well, here’s a real question. Julio, do you think that the iPhone will be available tomorrow? Bill announced it, will it be available?

Julio Ojeda-Zapata Oh well, I suspect they will announce it and then will release it in a week or two.

Leo Laporte A week or two?

Julio Ojeda-Zapata Yeah.

Leo Laporte Joshua, what’s the line on that?

Joshua Topolsky I think we’ve heard – that sounds – that’s very possible. We’ve heard June 20th or 27th, some dates around there, so…

Leo Laporte They have booked – apparently on the 27th they have booked Moscone again. Maybe because…

Joshua Topolsky That’s odd.

Leo Laporte Yeah, that’s odd. It might be simply that they weren’t sure when WWDC would be and they are recovering their bets, because they didn’t announce WWDC till kind of…

Joshua Topolsky Late.

Leo Laporte Late?

Joshua Topolsky Yeah. But I agree with Julio. I think that it’s going to be not the [indiscernible] (6:58). I just don’t see them doing that.

Leo Laporte Why not?

Joshua Topolsky Well, I mean, I think they like to build a little hype. They want people to wait in line. Now if you do the [indiscernible] (7:07), people just run into stores.

Mark Milian But they have a hype built for them by tech blogs, by [indiscernible] (7:10).

Leo Laporte Gee, people just into stores and buy it, how horrible is that? I mean [indiscernible] (7:15)

Joshua Topolsky What’s better? They run into stores or they wait and then they have to get in line and then the news covers, these are a lot crazy lines for new Apple product.

Leo Laporte They do not wait too long because I think there is things like the Sprint EVO that could very well eat some of their sales if they wait too long, don’t you think?

Joshua Topolsky I think it’s already happening, right?

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Joshua Topolsky I mean lot of people are – I mean I’ve got emails from people saying – should I get this, I got to get this, I can’t help myself. So, the EVO I mean.

Leo Laporte I love the EVO. I am loving it.

Joshua Topolsky Yeah, great.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata Can I tell about the EVO?

Leo Laporte Yes, please Julio. Tell me about the EVO.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata Okay, I brought the EVO on this trip. I did a couple of wacky things. I didn’t bring a laptop, I only brought iPads for [ph] my activity (7:56).

Leo Laporte I noticed that. You are going to do the whole – but wait a minute, now folks he’s got two. What’s the deal with two iPads?

Julio Ojeda-Zapata Well, I am a deeply paranoid person and I am taking a leap here as okay iPad I’m trusting you but I am bringing two.

Leo Laporte And I am only trusting you a little bit. Two just in case you lose one?

Julio Ojeda-Zapata Well, I – you know the whole 10 to 11 hour battery life…

Leo Laporte You’re using one for Twitter, aren’t you? [indiscernible] (8:21)

Julio Ojeda-Zapata No, the whole 10 to 11 hour battery life. I am not seeing that. I am running out to choose.

Leo Laporte You’re not?

Julio Ojeda-Zapata Yeah, so I’m switching between iPads because they keep running out of, gees, I don’t know if they are defective or something.

Joshua Topolsky You got some [indiscernible] (8:32) right?

Mark Milian But if you are running on 3G…

Julio Ojeda-Zapata Yeah, that might be it.

Leo Laporte And you’re multitasking? Somebody said that’s the best way to multitask is by multiple iPads.

Joshua Topolsky Yeah. That’s what [indiscernible] (8:40) he had two iPhones. I interviewed him and he had – he said multitasking, well I just have two iPhones.

Leo Laporte That’s how Steve would like to multitask, just buy more.

Joshua Topolsky Yeah.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata But by – the EVO I brought – I brought the iPad for productivity. I brought the EVO as my mission critical smartphone.

Leo Laporte Ooh, that might have been a mistake.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata And the thing is driving me nuts.

Leo Laporte Why? Why [indiscernible] (9:01)?

Julio Ojeda-Zapata I don’t know if it’s a EVO problem or an Android problem but the – it’s just the performance is really flaky getting all kinds of error messages.

Leo Laporte No, I haven’t had that.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata A lot of force quits, a lot of pop ups.

Leo Laporte No, I haven’t seen that. I think you have got a problem. I think you had a bad equipment, that’s it.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata Yeah, maybe.

Joshua Topolsky Maybe it’s a [indiscernible] (9:17) one, what you’re running, maybe it’s a particular app or collection of…

Leo Laporte That’s one thing with Android is really true is that you can hose your Android by running a third-party app, it’s not very good. I’ve been very cautious about what apps I install and uninstall apps frequently just to make sure that they’re not – if I see battery life issues or that kind of thing. Are you running just the stock stuff?

Julio Ojeda-Zapata I am just telling you, the stock stuff is driving me nuts. But you know the other thing we’re talking Android versus Apple and I just want to make a point. I’ve used a lot of Android phones. I like Android very much. I am a big fan of Android, but every time I put on an Android phone and pick up an old [indiscernible] (9:55) an iPod Touch that I have lying around and I start using it. There’s a fluidity to the iPhone OS that I have yet to see on any Android phone. There is somebody at Apple that knows something that nobody else knows because the fluidity, the ease of use of the iPhone OS is amazing. Every time I put on an Android phone that I have been using for many days, pick up that iPod Touch I still see that difference, that little subtle thing about Apple hardware versus Android is something that Google has not [ph] nail yet (10:23).

Leo Laporte I hear people say that I mean, [ph] any nachos (10:25) says that and I’ve been – I [ph] banned (10:28) the iPhone in January for the Nexus One and have not looked back. I have been very happy especially now with Android 2.2 on this thing, it’s just great. Joshua, you use a lot of phones, do you have an opinion?

Joshua Topolsky Yeah, I think some people – I mean I totally know what really you are saying, I mean, I think some people are really sensitive that I am, the fit and finish the – every [indiscernible] (10:47).

Leo Laporte Are you saying I am insensitive?

Joshua Topolsky Well, I mean to – maybe just to this one thing. I too find, every time I get a new phone the first thing I do is I take – I get the icon screen up and I start to sort of go back and forth my finger like I guess as quickly as possible, because I want to see how it’s tracking, right, what the finger tracking is like and if you do it you compare Android to an iPhone and I know this sounds completely insane, but you do see there is something in the finger tracking, into the smoothness of the experience, that looks fine but if I showed you side by side you’d see how much lag it actually had compared to an iPhone. The iPhone tracks [ph] to a T (11:21).

Leo Laporte The iPhone is on a – it is on a processor that’s one-third is fast.

Joshua Topolsky Doesn’t matter. I know it doesn’t matter, it’s about – I mean it’s about [indiscernible] (11:31).

Leo Laporte People always say that – I have to say people always say that in the early Macintosh days and it was true that the mouse and the Macintosh was direct drive, and on Windows it felt like it was like a little [ph] laggy (11:40).

Joshua Topolsky It was like – it felt like it was floating above the actual [ph] glass (11:42)...

Leo Laporte Right.

Joshua Topolsky ...right, whereas Mac it was in the OS, that’s the way the iPhone feels to me. And – so I agree but also I don’t know if its sensors gotten has made that experience a lot better. What HTC has done [indiscernible] (11:52).

Leo Laporte I do like the Sense UI. I think, well I miss 2.2, which I think is significantly faster I do like the stuff that HTC built. And what about MOTOBLUR? I haven’t played with a Moto DROID – you don’t like that Mark?

Mark Milian I tried the BACKFLIP, it’s just so superfluous and just totally unnecessary. And Sense 2.0 I think is an unnecessary layer that’s added on top, I mean that slippery slope where you have Sense built on top, Google wants to roll out an update and you have to wait for HTC [indiscernible] (12:25).

Leo Laporte Well and that’s what happened? Isn’t it? Yeah because you can’t get 2.2 on the EVO yet.

Joshua Topolsky Google is going to fix that problem and unfortunately for HTC with I think because they just got [indiscernible] (12:35).

Leo Laporte That’s right, they [indiscernible] (12:38).

Joshua Topolsky A mastermind of the Web OS experience.

Leo Laporte So he’s a UI guy, so you’re saying he is going to fix the Apple/Android issue.

Joshua Topolsky I think there’s a real possibility that they’re looking at Android and they’re saying we need to bring this together, it’s very – I mean it’s actually really inconsistent UI experience, there are things that work one way here.

Leo Laporte Oh it’s worse than that. I mean really Android’s biggest problem is that there are so many handsets, different screen resolutions, and the real bad problem in my opinion is and I speak as somebody who talks to normal consumers is that you don’t have the sense when you buy an Android phone that you’re getting, you may buy the EVO today – it is the best Android phone today, but you really have this scary feeling that next month there will be a better one and then the month after that there will be a better one. And that keeps people out of the market. And Apple knows this; they say, one year, and you know exactly when the new iPhone is coming out. And you don’t have that sense of oh god tomorrow there is going to be a better phone out.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata I am not sure I agree with that, my first instance that DROID. I see the DROID [indiscernible] (13:46).

Leo Laporte A lot of people buying DROIDS, there are a lot of people buying Droids.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata, school teachers who knows a lot about technology, they are all packing DROIDS, this is very interesting.

Leo Laporte But they have to look at the reviews and say, well wait a minute the Incredible is better than DROID, oh wait a minute the EVO is better than the Incredible. And I think that in the long run hurts a company. I don’t think – it doesn’t hurt anyone’s career, anyone’s cell phone company, it hurts Google [ph] as the common. (14:09)

Joshua Topolsky They have a fragmentation problem. That’s definitely true. But I think to – on the point about the DROIDS, I think for a long time Verizon was – it was like a man in the desert who needed water, there were no good smartphones on Verizon, really your options were like, get a BlackBerry.

Leo Laporte Right.

Joshua Topolsky And the Droid was the first real – it was totally competitive with the iPhone.

Leo Laporte Right.

Joshua Topolsky Had apps, had OS support of a major company behind it, and it was a pretty attractive device. So I think they’ve been selling a lot of DROIDS. And I think the question is the people know the difference between the DROID and the DROID Incredible and the Droid Eris [indiscernible] (14:44).

Leo Laporte And DROID 2 which is going to come out sometime soon, right?

Mark Milian They do with these hundreds of commercials Verizon to then push [indiscernible] (14:48).

Joshua Topolsky [indiscernible] (14:50) the commercials are all this [indiscernible] (14:51).

Leo Laporte They’re all about DROID.

Joshua Topolsky ...the same product.

Leo Laporte Yeah, aren’t they all about the Droid?

Mark Milian Right, but now they’re saying by the DROID Incredibles whereas the original DROID is sort of passé.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata Their DROID Incredible commercials are really good, it emphasis the speed, the performance. I like that commercial a lot.

Leo Laporte I think the Incredible is a better phone, it is a better phone and I think that if all those teachers who bought the DROID are going to – the Motorola DROID, are going to say, wait a minute the Incredible. And then you start to get this backlash where people say, well I am not going to buy because the better phones are going to be here any minute now. Don’t you think?

Julio Ojeda-Zapata Well, I am talking a little bit [indiscernible] (15:27) here but...

Leo Laporte That’s all right, that’s what we do on the show. You fit in right in there.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata ...a long time ago back in the Mac 2CI days or whatever, if I recall it correctly my memory sometimes a little faulty, Macintosh refreshes did not occur as frequently as compared to refreshes occur now, I am speculating here, but my hunches this Android juggernaut with all these handsets coming out all the time is going to put pressure on Apple and who knows Apple might start releasing phones every six months.

Leo Laporte No, I don’t think so. I think Apple – see Apple first of all, I don’t Apple pays much attention to what the other guys are doing. I think Apple has this vision, Jobs has this vision and he says I am going to do it my way, screw the other guys, that’s one. Two, I think he realizes that putting out too many updates too fast is bad, in fact notice, Google had already said, we’re going to back off, we’re not going to put out Android software updates, we’re going to do yearly from now on. I think it’s vice-versa, isn’t it?

Julio Ojeda-Zapata Possibly not the frequency – possibly how much – how many improvements they make each cycle.

Leo Laporte Right.

Joshua Topolsky Well, I think that’s what you have to think about here in – what is this phone that we’re going to see tomorrow I mean here what’s we know about the phone, we’ve seen it, what it looks like presumably, but we don’t actually know anything about it in terms of –

Leo Laporte Okay. Let’s hold that though Joshua, that’s great. I want to talk about what is Apple going to announce tomorrow and in particular what does iPhone 4 or whatever we call it, what does that look like. And by the way The Unofficial Apple Weblog has just disclaim that picture saying, no it wasn’t real. [ph] It was a phoney. (17:04)

Joshua Topolsky It’s definitely not real.

Leo Laporte Definitely not real. Definitely not. So we’re going to take a break, come back. We’ve got a great cast of characters here, this is a perfect bunch to talk about these issues. Lots to talk about this week. Mark Milian from The Los Angeles Times. Julio Ojeda-Zapata, from the PiPress, as they call it, the St. Paul Pioneer Press. And from Engadget, the Editor-in-chief, Joshua Topolsky. Boy, you couldn’t get a more elite crew in here to talk about phones and more. Before we go on, though, I do want to tell us – tell you about our friends at Citrix, they do such great stuff and of course their GoToMeeting program builds on that foundation of high quality, reliable, speedy remote access. To give you a way to eliminate face to face meeting, I mean you got to have face to face meetings in business, you go to press the flash but frankly it’s time consuming, it’s the travel that’s expensive, more and more people are trying to meet via conference call and that’s just not going to make it because people are spaced out their [ph] zone data (18:02), it’s not engaging.

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Mark Milian, Joshua Topolsky, Julio Ojeda-Zapata were talking about what is going to be in the next iPhone? I’ll let you start Joshua, because I cut you off.

Joshua Topolsky Well, okay, so like I was saying before you rudely cut me off....

Leo Laporte Rudely, I interrupted you for actually commercial.

Joshua Topolsky [indiscernible] (19:32) just to talk about a product, so I guess that we have seen the iPhone but we don’t really know what’s in it, so we know we’ve heard the rumours, but first up it’s got a front-facing camera [indiscernible] (19:45).

Leo Laporte Okay, let’s talk about the front-facing camera, we all know that because of – by the way Joshua kudos to you for not giving that clown $5,000.

Joshua Topolsky Well, I mean we’re not [indiscernible] (19:59) boys, we were very tempted. And we talked to these guys. We thought about buying that phone, we definitely had conversation.

Leo Laporte And why did you not?

Joshua Topolsky By the time – well, they were liars. They were obviously pretty bad liars. By the time we got to any point where we were even considering it, it was out of our reach. We didn’t know if they were telling the truth about it at all. I mean by the time we got to that point where maybe we would buy it, maybe we wouldn’t, it was like – it just seemed like maybe it was a fake. These guys didn’t have it.

Leo Laporte So you didn’t go to the AOL lawyers and they said, no, no.

Joshua Topolsky No, we did, I did. We did. We had a conversation with them in the midst of all this. And they said you’d be crazy to buy it.

Leo Laporte Did they say you’d be at risk of criminal prosecution?

Joshua Topolsky They – I mean almost verbatim said, you would be insane to pay money for that phone.


Joshua Topolsky And this was after we had already had huge debates because --

Leo Laporte You took a picture of it though, right?

Joshua Topolsky We had some pictures that we were given. And we didn’t know if they were real. When we posted those pictures, we thought --

Leo Laporte Oh, you didn’t take them? They gave you pictures?

Joshua Topolsky No, no, no, we didn’t take them. We never saw it in person. We never met these guys in person. But when we published this, part of the reason we published them is we said, we don’t know what this thing is. It could be fake, it could be a knock-off, it could be anything. It didn’t seem – we were like, you know what? It’s probably a knock-off. And when I woke up the next morning, people were saying, hey, this is a knock-off. And I thought, well, that makes sense.

Leo Laporte Is there pressure – how much pressure is there on you as a gadget blog to publish?

Joshua Topolsky What do you mean? To --

Leo Laporte Well, if there’s pictures, even if you think, well, these might be not – we don’t know what the providence is of these. Is there nevertheless pretty strong incentive to publish anyway? With whatever disclaimers you decide to put on there?

Joshua Topolsky If you want to – the thing about it is credibility, right? You can’t keep publishing bad Photoshops or fakes and have people come back to you and say well, I expected – it has to be – there has to be some shred of possibility.

Leo Laporte That’s a very good point.

Joshua Topolsky And when we go – when we look at those pictures, we have – the whole team will go over them with like a fine-tooth comb, saying what is going on here? Is it a Photoshop, are there any artifacts? So we really look into it. We try not to publish garbage. I mean the goal is, I don’t want to waste people’s time and get people thinking and worried and excited about something that’s just a fake.

Leo Laporte You want to – if it’s real, you want to be first, you want to have it. But you also – now this is true because there are blogs with no names – I’ll say no names, where a lot of rumors get published. And after a while, there’s rumor fatigue, where you start to say, you know what? I can’t believe anything these guys say because half the time it’s not – it doesn’t happen.

Joshua Topolsky Right, I mean that’s the danger. You really don’t want to be – you also – I mean for us, the idea is news, right? We want this news to be useful to people. So I don’t want to become a site where you can’t count on news, where you’re just getting rumors. And we certainly have published stuff that didn’t turn out to be real. But it’s always after – we don’t do it – if we just get tips, somebody says, hey, I have some information we don’t just go straight to publish. We have to follow up on it. We have a process for that, so.

Leo Laporte And in fact, the Unofficial Apple Weblog may have been bit by this picture because now they – they published it at first. I think – go ahead.

Joshua Topolsky Yeah, I actually spoke to them about – I mean we got the – we’ve been getting the same picture sent to us all day.

Leo Laporte You all get the same stuff, don’t you?

Joshua Topolsky Yeah. And it’s fake. You can clearly see – there’s trouble with the render. It does not look like what the actual phone looks like. If you look at the side of it there, the back of it doesn’t look right.

Leo Laporte No, and in fact, it’s – it’s not square. [Laughter] It’s actually not square!

Mark Milian It’s also an incredibly boring advertisement.

Leo Laporte Yeah, Apple’s never going to do that.

Mark Milian [Indiscernible] (23:46)

Joshua Topolsky And these colors in the background, these like loopy things…

Leo Laporte That’s not Apple.

Joshua Topolsky That’s just – Apple would never do that. That doesn’t look like Apple.

Leo Laporte It’s not the right typeface, yeah, they use Marriott.

Joshua Topolsky Well, it’s E.T. --

Leo Laporte Minion I mean.

Joshua Topolsky Old or something.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Joshua Topolsky And it’s just – they’re not doing it in colors either. They’re not going to do it in colors because if they were going to do it in colors, we probably would have seen – because we’ve seen white and we’ve seen black leaked from Vietnam and from China. So I think if we were going to be – if they were going to be colors, we would have gotten something by now. But maybe not. But I don’t think it’s happening.

Leo Laporte Yeah. So let’s – I’m sorry, I got a little bit on a sidetrack because I just wanted to thank you, Joshua, for not falling into that trap.

Joshua Topolsky I don’t want to – seriously I don’t want to be like – I appreciate that, but we were very tempted. I don’t necessarily know if – I think there are things that happen with the phone. Had we gotten the phone – I mean it’s possible, had the guys said, we’re down the street, come meet us.

Leo Laporte When you say – guy or guys?

Joshua Topolsky People who – people --

Leo Laporte Was it two? Was it more than one guy?

Joshua Topolsky We spoke to – I mean --

Leo Laporte Have you been subpoenaed on this? Have you --

Joshua Topolsky No, no, it’s hard to say. Honestly, it’s hard to say. I – when we had these conversations, it was not clear, to be honest, who had the phone. And that’s one of the reasons we decided to not go, and that’s one of the reasons we decided to publish the photos. Our thought was, we don’t know what’s going on. We don’t know if this guy or these guys are being straight with us.

Leo Laporte It was hinky from the start.

Joshua Topolsky Yeah. And then so – and we thought, the easiest way to deal with this is just forget – just put this picture up. And if it’s real, we’ll find out. And if it’s fake, people will say that thing is fake. And – but, yeah, I mean what I wanted to say was, I think there are things that happen in that – in this story that I can’t fault Giz for doing, you know? They went for it. And if you’re going to pay for a scoop, this is huge. Somebody says ‘I have the new iPhone’ and --

Leo Laporte It’s a scoop, yeah.

Joshua Topolsky It’s a huge scoop. And if you get it and you do a hands-on of it, I mean that’s – it’s crazy. I’m sure that they didn’t think this thing was stolen, which is I think how Apple considers it, right?

Leo Laporte It was clear after the D Conference that Steve feels like it was stolen.

Joshua Topolsky I think if somebody had said we stole this phone, I don’t think Giz would have bought it?

Leo Laporte Right, right.

Joshua Topolsky But I think there are things that they could have done differently after getting that hands-on up that I might have done differently. But this scoop – and we were very torn, that’s what I’m saying. We were very torn about this.

Leo Laporte I appreciate your candor because you could have said, yeah, we never would have done that. Those guys – so I appreciate your candor, Josh.

Joshua Topolsky Yeah, I mean it’s just – the thing is when you’re presented with something that’s so alien, this is a completely alien thing to us. We don’t normally get people coming to us saying, will you pay us for this scoop and this level of scoop, this magnitude.

Leo Laporte Right.

Joshua Topolsky So we were very torn. And I think that a lot of people would be torn. Now I have to say, policy will not be – we’re not unclear on it at all. The policy is we’re not even going to think about it. Nothing is worth the hell that Giz I’m sure is going through.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Poor Jason Chen is just dying at this point.

Joshua Topolsky Yeah. I mean it’s crazy, it’s really pretty crazy.

Leo Laporte Yeah. So you haven’t been contacted by police about this?

Joshua Topolsky Oh, I mean they confiscated my computer.

Leo Laporte No! No!

Mark Milian Yeah, you missed that one. No.

Leo Laporte I got a scoop for you!

Joshua Topolsky I haven’t been contacted yet. But I mean you never know, I mean we’re – our name is certainly there. Jobs said it. So when I heard about Jason, them raiding his house, taking his computers, I got pretty scared.

Leo Laporte Horrible. Horrible.

Joshua Topolsky I mean I thought if they could do this to him, they could do it to me. I think there is a real issue. I think the way they went about that was --

Leo Laporte Well, you’re all three journalists who are protected by shield laws. Did it feel to you like maybe the – that a violation of shield laws was going on? Julio, did this strike you as a little bit of a bad precedent, the police kind of raided this guy’s house, took all his computers, ignored shield laws?

Julio Ojeda-Zapata Not being a lawyer or playing one on TV, I’m not really sure --

Leo Laporte It bothered me. I thought – there are exceptions, if they break the law, there’s exceptions, you know, you’re journalists, just because journalists isn’t protected against prosecution. But there are reasons for the shield laws. And I just hate the idea that – I mean look at it, it’s at worst a stolen phone. They took everything. They took his business cards. They raided his house. And it seems to me that’s overreaction. Mark, do you think? What do you say?

Mark Milian You also have to be careful to not specifically place the blame on Apple there because --

Leo Laporte No, we don’t know. We don’t know.

Mark Milian As far as we know, this is Apple saying – going to a task force that represents them --

Leo Laporte We don’t know that. They admit that they called the cops.

Mark Milian Right, they called this task force called REACT and they said, some of our private corporate property has been stolen and this is all the information we have. We don’t know if they said, now go kick down some doors and take his business cards and his iPad.

Joshua Topolsky I doubt it. And I doubt it – it does – I feel like people want to paint Apple as sort of masterminding this raid. But that’s not how it works. I mean in the real world, Apple doesn’t call the police and say, go raid this guy’s house.

Leo Laporte No, of course not. They report a crime and then REACT has to decide what to do.

Joshua Topolsky I think that’s a question about the shield laws, is what – the thing is, I can’t kill somebody and say, well, I was in the middle of investigating a story and this guy got in my way. So I had to take him out. But I’m protected under the shield law, right? I mean you can’t commit a crime --

Leo Laporte Of course not.

Joshua Topolsky And be protected by – I think the problem here was the way they went about – I mean, did they need to break in his door? Could they have come to the door and said, we need to talk to you about this stuff. Or --

Leo Laporte The shield law is to protect sources. We don’t know what other sources are on that. The point of the shield law is that they have to – that this can be circumscribed this search to protect other sources. I’m not saying you’re protecting Jason Chen. But you’re protecting sources. And they took everything, willy-nilly, and gave nobody an opportunity to say, okay, you can take this but not this. And so I just – it concerned me. I mean this is old news. I guess we could drop it. But --

Julio Ojeda-Zapata But I – when this whole thing was going down, I think every journalist sort of paused and asked themselves, how would this have played out –

Leo Laporte How would you have done this, yeah.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata [ph] … at our news (30:08) organization. And I can see – I can see the conversations with [ph] Tom Platting (30:12), our editor, our attorney, and I know, I’m certain – I haven’t discussed this with them but I’m certain that they would have said stay [ph] the frac (30:20) away from that thing, don’t go anywhere near that.

Leo Laporte Don’t do it – don’t do it, don’t do it in the first place.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata And I think as a result again, not a lawyer here, but I think Gizmodo is on really shaky flimsy ground in every way conceivable, so.

Joshua Topolsky It is problematic, I mean it is, obviously that’s what we were told and but, it’s – the question is how far will they go against – how far will the police go against Gizmodo, I mean who is the criminal. If they are being looked at, are they the criminal here? I mean, is – are the people who sold the phone, I mean, I read some of those documents, I mean this guys don’t come off looking good, they are like hiding evidence, they are destroying evidence. And I think the fear – I’m guessing right the idea that they get behind on getting [ph] Jason’s (31:12) computers was, we’re scared he is going to destroy evidence.

Leo Laporte Right.0

Joshua Topolsky And we want to prevent that from happening, right. So they didn’t take the computers to – I mean I don’t think that he would have done that. But they didn’t take the computers to look at everything on them. And that’s what they are saying, right? We are not going to look at these, we just need to make sure – at least I would imagine, we just need to make sure that still – it’s still – I mean I agree with Julio, it’s shaky ground because Apple considers this thing stolen, they reported it stolen, there is trade secrets that have been – I mean the thing was taken apart, it was broken while it was taken apart. So, I mean if it’s stolen property and there are trade secrets, not just the device itself but the things inside of it, it’s not a good – I mean it’s not a good place to be.

Leo Laporte It’s bad all around, yeah. So, however it did give us – you do believe that there is the next iPhone, yes?

Joshua Topolsky Oh, yeah.

Leo Laporte So it gave us a pretty good look at what the next iPhone, we know front-facing camera. Do you want a front-facing camera? Julio, you said you wouldn’t use it. I don’t know if you are going to call with it.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata Okay, my parents live in rural New Hampshire, they just got broadband and I’m doing [ph] Backflip (32:23) for Droid because my ability to communicate with them digitally has been seriously compromised. So our family connectivity has just taken a quantum leap and we are doing the whole video chat…

Leo Laporte Using Skype.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata …like crazy. No, no we’re using, we’re using…

Leo Laporte iChat.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata …iChat. And so at this point I’m really looking forward to handing my son…

Leo Laporte An iPhone.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata …an iPhone and have him chat with the grandma.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata And he is going to be [ph] all over (32:52) for that. I’m really excited about this. I want that front-facing camera, I’m going to use it like crazy.

Leo Laporte Okay. Mark, you agree?

Mark Milian I just can’t think of a time when I’m out and about and needed it on my phone, I mean I have it on my computer and I never use it, I only use it to do [indiscernible] (33:07).

Leo Laporte And I wonder if you’ll be able to use it with anything but iChat. You know, is it going to be an Apple only experience? What is Apple going to do?

Mark Milian I feel like if they don’t from the start, they will eventually open up the front-facing camera just like they did the back-facing camera [ph] ABI (33:24).

Leo Laporte Yeah, yeah.

Joshua Topolsky Yeah. And I think they are going to have to let – at some point let people have access to it. I don’t know, I think that the thing about doing an iChat was video, I mean Mark you are saying – and I agree you know where – where you are going to be that you need to do this thing. But think about the possibility of being able to call your wife or your brother, whatever, when something crazy is going on…

Leo Laporte And show them.

Joshua Topolsky And show them or show them that you are standing somewhere or talk to them while you are in Paris and you are at the Eiffel Tower.

Leo Laporte This is a typical Apple thing where it’s there is no – there is not a strong use case for it, they are kind of saying we think you are going to want to do this and so we are going to put it in here and you will do it because we put it in.

Joshua Topolsky And people probably will.

Leo Laporte I guess.

Joshua Topolsky I mean you’ll probably find ways to do. I mean here is the thing, it’s not a new feature, people have –

Leo Laporte No, Nokia has had it for ages.

Joshua Topolsky I mean we were just – we had some people in Taipei at COMPUTEX and we have a post where they were being driven around by a cabbie who was talking, having a video conversation with somebody while driving.

Leo Laporte It’s interesting. While driving. There you go.

Joshua Topolsky But it was just like a normal thing. You know, he’s talking to his wife or somebody, and you know, I think it may become much more commonplace once Apple [ph] introduce (34:32). This always [ph] happens that (34:34) Apple says, it’s something you say well what do I need it for…

Leo Laporte Yeah. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker [ph] Suddenly like I moved. (34:39)

Joshua Topolsky [ph] I never thought you’d be added in your [indiscernible] (34:40).

Leo Laporte Right. I’ve said that again and again, I said nobody ever wants to [ph] add (34:44) movies, nobody.

Joshua Topolsky You are wrong.

Leo Laporte I was wrong.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata You know, I’m standing in the grocery store, I’m really tired of conversations with my wife, I’m standing at the grocery store and I’m having her spend five minutes describing what it is that I need to buy for her, I can just point the phone at it, I’m looking forward to that.

Leo Laporte One other hardware, I mean doesn’t – it seems like it’s – and this has been the case 3GS was merely evolutionary, it seems like the next-generation will be merely evolutionary. Anything – I mean front-facing is the closest thing to revolutionary.

Joshua Topolsky I think this will be a big change, really.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Joshua Topolsky I mean – I think it can be higher resolution screen, we are hearing double [ph] resolution (35:17).

Leo Laporte Gigahertz processor – really double resolution?

Joshua Topolsky It’s going to be the A4. I think it’s going to be the A4 processor.

Leo Laporte That’s the processor in the iPad, which really is a snappy little devil.

Joshua Topolsky And imagine with more RAM, which supposedly this is going to have, sort of double the RAM of the iPad, it’s going to have a higher resolution screen, almost the resolution of the iPad from what I understand.

Leo Laporte Really, wow!

Joshua Topolsky People are saying – people are saying – no – yeah, people are saying 960 by – what's the number?

Leo Laporte 800?

Joshua Topolsky It’s double, it’s double the current…

Leo Laporte 720 probably…

Joshua Topolsky 480.

Leo Laporte 480.

Joshua Topolsky 480 by – no, I’m confused. It’s…

Leo Laporte No, [indiscernible] (35:48) 960.

Joshua Topolsky It’s 320 by 480, so it’s 960 by 640.

Leo Laporte 640.

Joshua Topolsky 960 by 640. My math is awful apparently.

Leo Laporte But that’s amazing. That’s quite a high resolution screen.

Joshua Topolsky Yeah, so it will double and I heard – I heard some rumors, means it’s not stuff that we publish but that they are going to have all kinds of new ways to scale up apps and – you know, I think the thing about that – I mean I think this is going to be a big, big change. I think this is going to make the EVO and other phones not look as quite as amazing as they do today. I think tomorrow unfortunately for – and I think the EVO is a great phone, the Incredible is a great phone, there are a lot of very strong competitors that are – have tested the 3GS in terms of tech. But tomorrow they may have to go back to the drawing board which I think is what Apple does.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata Could I ask you a question though? The one feature in Android that’s [indiscernible] (36:48) whenever I am in an unfamiliar place I fire up the driving directions, have [indiscernible] heard (36:54) anything about…

Leo Laporte Turn-by-turn.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata Apple implementing turn-by-turn that would be awesome.

Leo Laporte I mean there is rich marketplace for that.

Joshua Topolsky They can just – couldn’t they – I mean doesn’t Google want to spread its turn-by-turn navigation everywhere it can? Seem to be like they would say hey can we tap into this, it’s already there, it’s using your maps.

Leo Laporte Steve – at the D8 conference Steve said, we don’t mind using Google stuff on our phone, right?

Joshua Topolsky And I don’t think they do. Google does some stuff really, really well, right.

Leo Laporte Yeah, why not.

Mark Milian He is [ph] painting (37:20) Google as non-competitors where – another quote from that was they decided to come in and compete with us.

Leo Laporte We didn’t compete with them.

Mark Milian Yeah.

Leo Laporte We didn’t go after their search. They went after our phone.

Mark Milian I h think it was the last WWDC that I was at last year, they had said turn-by-turn directions would be coming from Google and…

Leo Laporte Oh, okay.

Mark Milian …we never saw it. I think that may have more to do with the business move in that they make the most money from TomTom apps and the $90…

Leo Laporte They make a ton of money from $90 apps, it’s $30 in their pocket.

Mark Milian And they are some of those top grossing apps.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Joshua Topolsky They may argue – they may also argue because in fact it may not happen but because they – when they talked about multi-tasking, they talked about turn-by-turn, they said what do you really need it for. Well, turn-by-turn direction is that something you need to keep running even if you are doing other things. But I think Apple would say, well we are giving you a choice. You can get TomTom, you can get TeleNav, you can get all these different services instead of just being locked into one thing. Then to be honest with you, I kind of – I see the value in that – I love Google’s navigation, but it’s taken me some crazy routes before.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Joshua Topolsky But I question whether or not it’s the best navigation I can possibly –

Leo Laporte It’s not just Google, everybody. You said Julio, when it brought you through downtown San Francisco [indiscernible] (38:38).

Julio Ojeda-Zapata Yeah, the Google navigation, I just kind of went blind and trusted it to get me to the cottage but let me astray about four times, so.

Leo Laporte But I’ve had that happen – I’ve had that happen on every GPS I’ve ever used. It just sometimes you just get crappy direction like it’s what were you thinking, it’s a computer, that’s why.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata And it kept contradicting itself. First it said go here, and then five minutes later it said go in the other direction.

Leo Laporte It’s doing the best they can. John Gruber has a nice post from April about this higher res screen. According to his calculations, it’s 162 pixels an inch. That’s higher resolution than a Mac display. That’s an incredible resolution.

Joshua Topolsky Gruber has some secret sources, I mean he gets some once – every once in a while he nails something. I mean, so he may be right on. I mean, I’ve heard the resolution is really high. I haven’t heard a number, but from very reliable sources I’ve heard that it’s really high and this number makes sense to me.

Leo Laporte LCD screen though, not AMOLED, right?

Joshua Topolsky I don’t think they’ll go to AMOLED. I think that they recognize the biggest problem with AMOLED, which is…

Leo Laporte Daylight.

Joshua Topolsky …you can’t se it in the day time, which is really, really problematic. I mean I love the Nexus One, but every time I have to try to make a call during the day outside, it’s like [ph] just guessing what [indiscernible] (39:58).

Leo Laporte It’s hard to use, yeah. Well the iPad has that problem too, although I imagine they’ll use these IPS displays I would think in a high res iPhone.

Joshua Topolsky Yeah, it’s like they – I think they have a technology they like and they are going to keep using. They are definitely going to have to up the battery life here though; you are talking about a lot of new stuff going on, right? You have got front-facing camera, you have got a higher resolution display, 5 megapixel camera I think is the rumor for the one in the back and then faster processor, more RAM, so my guess is they are going to do something pretty – I mean the battery is pretty big in this thing from what we are seeing in the Giz teardown.

Leo Laporte I am going to correct myself. The existing iPhone is 162 pixels per inch, a 960x480 display, a 3.5 inches would be 330 pixels per inch.

Joshua Topolsky Is that even possible?

Leo Laporte That’s laser printing – that’s a laser printer.

Joshua Topolsky It’s going to be great for reading.

Leo Laporte Maps will look good, that’s right reading will be good if you got the right fonts.

Joshua Topolsky What do you think, they are probably going to put iBooks on to the iPhone at some point?

Mark Milian Yeah, they said they were doing that with OS 4.

Joshua Topolsky That’s right, that’s right, [indiscernible] (41:06) said this, so that will happen. It will be great and I am sure [indiscernible] (41:09) say look how clean the text looks on this.

Leo Laporte All right. I have got a conspiracy theory I want to run by you guys so that you can mock me, laugh at me and make fun of me and I know you are going to do that, but I really think there is going to be a really important one more thing tomorrow and I will talk about that in just a second. But before I do I do want to mention our friends at Carbonite, we will take a little break here. Mark Milian is with us from the LA Times; from the Pioneer Press, Julio Ojeda-Zapata; and from Engadget, the Editor-in-Chief of Engadget, Joshua Topolsky. We are glad to have all three, if you are on.

Carbonite, I have mentioned before many times, I hope you know about Carbonite. Carbonite is the leader in online backup for PCs or Mac and one of the things I like about Carbonite is it’s automatic. If you have to remember to backup, let’s face it, if have to remember to backup it isn’t going to happen . Carbonite does it for you automatically. If fact if you go right now to and use the offer code twit, t-w-i-t, you could try this without even a credit card for 30 – I am sorry, 15 days. It should give you enough time to really get a sense of how this works. As soon as you install the software it starts backing-up using your high-speed internet connection. Right to the cloud, to the Carbonite servers, you can use AES-256 bit encryption if you want, the password’s yours, you don’t have to tell anybody, so it’s very private. It backs up all your personal files, financial records, photos, music, so they are safe and sound. You can tell what folders to backup. I think on the free trial you can’t backup video because that’s so big, but everything but the video on the free trial, and then when you buy you could backup everything.

Unlimited backup for your internal hard drive for less than five bucks a month. But to me it’s not – the price is secondary, it’s affordable, yes it’s a great deal, you don’t have to pay more when you upload more, but the real deal is how easy to is to use, how well written the software is, it never slows your computer data, it knows what you are doing, it doesn’t use your internet access until you are not using it. So it stays out of the way but it just happens, so that you are backed up. And you can access those files from any computer you can get online with including your iPhone, there’s great iPhone software.

I have mentioned this before, I will mention it one more time, my daughter is going to college in the fall and I am putting Carbonite in her laptop because I would tell you what, you know that laptop might get stolen, the hard drive might die. More likely than all that she might just accidentally erase the paper that’s due tomorrow. And I know when I get that call dad what do I do, I have the paper, I erased it, I could say, good news, I got Carbonite on there, you just go and get it., it’s backup done right. You got to back it up to get it back with Carbonite.

So big announcement from AT&T last week, actually couple of announcements, first from AT&T they said we are going to double effectively our early termination fees on our phones to what is it, 375 on smartphones. Then late last week they say, oh and by the way you know that unlimited pricing plan for data that you are getting the iPad, the 30 bucks for is all you can need, that’s gone starting – here’s an interesting date – June 7. They say you can order an iPad between now and June 7, and even if you don’t get it by June 7 we will guarantee that $30 unlimited but from now on $15, 200 megabytes; $25, 2 gigabytes; $10 a gigabyte in advance of that – after that, tiered pricing. So do you think it’s interesting? I put this to you. That AT&T announces all of this on June 7. What is happening? What is happening on June 7? What could be going on – what could be – oh, wait a minute, maybe that one more – this is my thought that – I know you guys are going to think I am nuts, one more thing, oh, and the iPad and iPhone on Verizon.

Joshua Topolsky I got a better one.

Leo Laporte Okay.

Joshua Topolsky How about on Verizon and Sprint?

Leo Laporte And Sprint.

Joshua Topolsky And T-Mobile?

Leo Laporte And T-Mobile, oh!

Joshua Topolsky Every network in America.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Joshua Topolsky You get – tell me you didn’t – you didn’t just get chills.

Leo Laporte I did.

Joshua Topolsky I said that.

Leo Laporte I got chills.

Joshua Topolsky Yeah, I do, right. If that happens that would be it, it’s over, it’s all over, we’re going to squeeze them.

Leo Laporte It’s all over for AT&T.

Joshua Topolsky [Ph] They shut down the site (45:09) because there won’t be any more [indiscernible] (45:11) to report on.

Leo Laporte Isn’t that – you know what, that’s brilliant Joshua. Why not? Why stop at Verizon?

Joshua Topolsky I mean T-Mobile is a very short step, all you have to do is change the band, [ph] same radio (45:20).

Leo Laporte Yeah. If you are building CDMA and you have got GSM, go all the way.

Joshua Topolsky So if you do CDMA, you are going to lose data and voice at the same time and I think that if they do it, which would be the smartest thing that they have ever done, and Steve Jobs is not a dummy. If they were to do it, they would say you lose data and voice at the same time, that’s how the CDMA networks work, but we think the pros outweigh the cons there, and it’s a great experience regardless.

Leo Laporte And we believe in choice.

Joshua Topolsky Right…

Leo Laporte We are the open solution.

Joshua Topolsky Right. Just imagine a world where everybody who is on Verizon, everybody who is on Sprint, and everybody who is on T-Mobile can also buy the iPhone in America.

Leo Laporte So you don’t think I am crazy?

Joshua Topolsky I mean you are crazy, and that’s probably not going to happen, but I think at the time it is really unusual, that the 7th – making these changes on the 7th, the termination fee thing is a little unusual and I think that it could very well happen. But I think...

Mark Milian The termination fee is only following suite with Verizon.

Leo Laporte Verizon is already doing that, let’s face that. So…

Mark Milian I think they are just trying to stay in line there, and the data I think there AT&T is saying, holy crap, everybody is going to do video conferencing…

Leo Laporte Right.

Mark Milian We better put some limits on this or our towers are going to get hammered.

Leo Laporte Oh! So you think it’s in response to the front facing camera?

Mark Milian I think it’s in response to the front facing camera, then opening up VoIP on the app store…

Leo Laporte Right.

Mark Milian I think they are just getting ready for a flood of people going to data rather than voice…

Leo Laporte Will there be tethering finally?

Mark Milian Yeah, I believe as AT&T said…

Leo Laporte Well look the 3GS can do tethering. The AT&T said last year we’ll have it by the fall.

Joshua Topolsky Some places, not here.

Leo Laporte Yeah, they could do it in Canada, they could do it in Europe, they just can’t do it on AT&T.

Mark Milian I heard rumors that it’s going to be an extra $20 per month.

Leo Laporte That would be the deal. I can tether right now on my Froyo 2.2 Nexus One for free, because T-Mobile hasn’t figured that out yet. I can tether…

Joshua Topolsky For Froyo?

Leo Laporte Froyo.

Joshua Topolsky Yeah, it’s – I was going to say it’s [ph] frozen yogurt (47:18).

Leo Laporte Froyo. Did I say Friyo?

Joshua Topolsky Lot of people say Friyo.

Leo Laporte Friyo.

Joshua Topolsky It’s like a made-up word.

Leo Laporte Oh there’s a Friyo.

Joshua Topolsky But I mean, look I agree – I agree with Mark, they are – it is in line with a lot of other stuff. I don’t think that your conspiracy theory is crazy, but I love – I kind of love a good conspiracy theory.

Leo Laporte Let’s make it really good, let’s juice it up is what you are saying?

Joshua Topolsky Yeah, I mean why not?

Mark Milian I do – I like the option……..

Joshua Topolsky Let’s [ph] pre-analyze (47:42) it.

Mark Milian …….in theory but this rumor has been going on for two years.

Leo Laporte It has but we got now some evidence, we got some – but you know you gave me an alternate excuse that really is pretty illogical. Damn you.

Joshua Topolsky That’s all, what Mark said is really [indiscernible] (47:53).

Leo Laporte Damn your eyes Mark Milian.

Mark Milian It doesn’t ruin the fun.

Leo Laporte You have ruined the fun. I like Joshua, I like your idea.

Joshua Topolsky I know, all four right?

Leo Laporte Isn’t it in Apple’s interest though? Why – I mean…

Joshua Topolsky Yes it is.

Mark Milian I am not so sure about that.

Leo Laporte Why not?

Mark Milian AT&T is giving them a ton of money per new subscriber.

Leo Laporte Of course they are.

Joshua Topolsky You don’t think the other carriers would do that?

Mark Milian I don’t think so. Once you open it up to everybody what is the incentive, there is no exclusivity there, why is Verizon going to say we will give you 400…

Joshua Topolsky Well, if you are Verizon, you say I have got the best 3G network and it’s more reliable and a lot of whatever they say, and you know that there are people, lots of people who have Verizon or want to get Verizon because they know it’s so reliable, there is a huge incentive to give them this phone to say you don’t have to go – if you want the iPhone we have it, you can get, it’s happening on Verizon. I mean to me the incentives are just they pile up. Same for all of these carriers, I mean I think it’s – if you are staying behind your product as it is, it could only get better with having the iPhone, right, that’s the – the would be their stance I would imagine.

Mark Milian My suspicion is that AT&T is just offering Apple an insane amount of money for new subscribers.

Leo Laporte They have got to be. They’ve got to be. But don’t you think Apple is a little mad if AT&T says that $30 thing that you announced in January is now not – don’t you think that would – that’d pissed me off.

Joshua Topolsky It’s weird change for the iPad since nothing is changing about the iPad. I mean the iPad is still going to be the iPad tomorrow, right?

Leo Laporte Yeah, there is no more additional capabilities.

Joshua Topolsky Unless…

Leo Laporte There is a front facing iPad camera?

Joshua Topolsky You throw a conspiracy theory out, they announce a new iPad that’s joining its brother the iPhone and it’s got a front facing camera.

Leo Laporte I don’t see that.

Joshua Topolsky If you are an iPad owner you can join in on calls, if you are…

Leo Laporte You disagree Mark, yeah I don’t see that either? Not so soon.

Joshua Topolsky See it’s a conspiracy obviously it’s got…

Mark Milian Two months after the iPad comes out…

Leo Laporte Yeah that’s too soon, too soon.

Joshua Topolsky Oh yeah because Apple would never suddenly release a new product just after they released…

Mark Milian Two months? I don’t think that’s ever happened.

Leo Laporte That’s too soon.

Joshua Topolsky Oh yes, that’s pretty soon.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Joshua Topolsky Damn it.

Leo Laporte Damn it. But they could – well okay, conspiracy theory number two, maybe they don’t do a iPhone on these other carriers, maybe they do a Verizon iPad?

Joshua Topolsky Maybe, Boy Genius used to think so.

Leo Laporte Boy Genius thinks that’s what’s coming?

Joshua Topolsky Yeah. They say that Verizon is testing a 3G iPad.

Leo Laporte And we’ve heard rumors of CDMA iPad but – and then there you don’t have the problem with calls because you’re not making calls.

Joshua Topolsky Makes huge sense actually.

Leo Laporte Yeah. And so maybe that’s what we are going to hear. Maybe I am half-right.

Joshua Topolsky But I think if they do the iPad on Verizon, don’t you think people will say why not the phone too? Maybe you can get away with that.

Leo Laporte I think I would say – by I’ve been saying why not the phone for three years, why AT&T. Every – I have to say one thing, yeah, maybe AT&T is glad that they have an exclusive. It’s costing a lot of money and it’s generating huge amounts of hate. AT&T according to the PC Magazine which does the testing all over the country, still has the fastest network but ask any iPhone or iPad user, they are going to laugh at you if you assert that. I mean it’s – it might be technically true but people don’t feel like it’s true. AT&T has got some bad rep from the iPhone and iPad. Maybe AT&T is going to say, get out of here and good riddance.

Joshua Topolsky No. It’s a good problem to have for AT&T. Don’t you think?

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Joshua Topolsky They say, we’ve got so many users…

Leo Laporte But maybe they are not making a lot of money, maybe they’ve given so much money to Apple that it’s not making the money on these new users. Do you ever think of that? What about that? I love these conspiracies.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata But the eternal question which – maybe Engadget has an educated answer for is, are the AT&T problems a result of AT&T or result of the iPhone’s popularity and will the same thing happen to Verizon once they get [indiscernible] (51:45)…

Leo Laporte Well, if you split it around many carriers, it’s going to be better than if it’s just all on AT&T, right.

Joshua Topolsky Let me ask you a question, do you know people who have a Bold 9700 on AT&T, anybody with a BlackBerry or any other phone on AT&T?

Leo Laporte Yeah, lots of people. They don’t hate it.

Joshua Topolsky They have the same problem?

Leo Laporte No.

Joshua Topolsky Do you ever think that maybe it’s not AT&T?

Leo Laporte It’s the iPhone. That’s what some people assert.

Joshua Topolsky Do you ever think there’s notches on the new iPhone, might be antennas…

Leo Laporte To help call dropping issues.

Joshua Topolsky Maybe, I think it maybe is not just AT&T. And I am not trying to defend them, but I have gotten the impression that it’s possible that there is a kind of a combination happening here. There’s a – a phone may not be so great when it comes to antennas, and we know they’ve struggled with the antenna issue, right? The original iPhone had these plastic pieces on its aluminum back and [indiscernible] (52:34) aluminum because obviously they were having trouble and I am guessing, I don’t know why they would want to go away from it. And now the new one has an aluminum rim around it but the back is some kind of tempered glass or plastic. So I mean, I think that – I think the question should be raised, is it AT&T’s network or it is the iPhone itself or is it just a combination? I think is a combination. I think that if you ask a BlackBerry user, they don’t have the same problems.

Leo Laporte Somebody in the chat room pointed out that – somebody called Beet.TV, I don’t who they are, had a video interview with a Verizon spokesperson at [ph] D (53:16)…

Joshua Topolsky John Johnson.

Leo Laporte John Johnson. You know him?

Joshua Topolsky John Johnson. Yeah, I actually met him at [ph] D8 as a matter of fact (53:21).

Leo Laporte He says, Verizon has – let’s see – there is no plan for Verizon to support Apple mobile devices in “the immediate future”, well that could be tomorrow. Maybe, who knows what the immediate future is!

Joshua Topolsky [Indiscernible] Jobs (53:37) – it’s like the books [indiscernible] (53:38).

Leo Laporte Well you to figure. If you’re about to partner with Apple, you are not going to pull the mistake. Who was it that – McGraw-Hill. You’re not going to do that. You’ve learned the lesson that you don’t say, yeah...

Joshua Topolsky Oh! Yes, Steve is announcing his tablet thing tomorrow, we’ll be there.

Leo Laporte I think you still can’t buy McGraw-Hill books on the bookstore…

Joshua Topolsky No, no.

Leo Laporte I believe the punishment is still on.

Joshua Topolsky I mean you heard Steve at the D8 right. When they are wrong, he doesn’t take it lying down. Okay.

Leo Laporte Steve holds grudges.

Joshua Topolsky Yeah, he goes for the throat.

Leo Laporte Steve – I mean frankly let’s face it. This whole Adobe thing comes from way back, way back many years ago when Adobe said we’re going to stop making Premiere for Macintosh, and Steve hit the roof and said we are going to screw Adobe every which way we can quick, find a video editing program. They bought Final Cut, and I think it goes back to that. Steve’s still holding that grudge. How many years ago was that? Don’t screw with the Jobs [indiscernible] (54:42).

Joshua Topolsky [Ph] I think he was (54:42) waiting for the right moment like revenge the [indiscernible] (54:45).

Leo Laporte Exactly.

Joshua Topolsky So [indiscernible] (54:47) really going to get.

Leo Laporte You think you can pull Premiere off the Mac? Actually there’s a big, which you mention this, there is a huge security flaw in Flash. Steve Jobs is going yeah, what a surprise.! Zero-day exploit that is in all copies of Flash pre version 10, so and then Adobe has no fix for it and probably won’t have a fix for it for at least a couple of weeks. So just a word of warning, if you’re using Flash you might want to go to the Adobe Labs and get version 10.1 the beta, apparently now it’s released candidate seven, so it’s fairly stable.

Joshua Topolsky I mean, all it does is it allow people to control your computer remotely. It’s not a big deal.

Leo Laporte Yeah. What am I worried about it? Yeah. Zero-day [indiscernible] day (55:33).

Joshua Topolsky It’s a complete exploit of your entire system.

Leo Laporte No big deal. By the way everybody is watching this live, I was watching on Flash, you my deepest sympathy. No, you’re safe if you’re getting it from a reliable site like us. It’s these – well, couple of ways it could be used, places like MySpace where they allow – I don’t if they still allow this, but they used to allow anybody kind of anonymously to buy ads, those ads can have Flash embedded, they can have malicious Flash apps or and stay away from there, don’t watch any Flash on Some of best stuff there, I know it’s good stuff there.

Joshua Topolsky [Indiscernible] (56:11) I have a Mac, so.

Leo Laporte Oh yeah. That’s true. That’s another point by the way that it does affect Mac and Linux and Windows, it’s the same bug in all of Flash platforms, but the hacker would not merely get control of your machine, we then they have to write an application to take advantage of it. It seems in most cases these guys, say, well it’s ready for Windows, [indiscernible] (56:31) ready for Mac before anybody has a Mac.

Joshua Topolsky 95% of the market.

Leo Laporte Right. Why should I waste time?

Joshua Topolsky So if the Mac users are all spending more money so that they may have more in their bank accounts [indiscernible] (56:41).

Leo Laporte More credit cards there.

Joshua Topolsky Yeah. Exactly.

Leo Laporte By the way it does affect Adobe Reader and Acrobat as well, but if you’re using that you’re just a schmuck. Who uses Reader?

Joshua Topolsky How do you really feel about that?

Leo Laporte Come on. Who uses Reader, really?

Joshua Topolsky I do occasionally.

Leo Laporte You don’t use Foxit or CutePDF or some other PDF thing?

Joshua Topolsky Well typically I use Preview.

Leo Laporte Yeah if you got a Mac you don’t need a Reader.

Joshua Topolsky If I’m in Mac OS but Reader – I mean, once in a while I [ph] still have (57:10) Reader for something, can’t select something and...

Leo Laporte I would not bust it out anymore. My advice to you, do not bust it out. Let’s see, Gizmodo was banned from WWDC.

Joshua Topolsky That’s surprising.

Leo Laporte Why [ph] is it they starting to say (57:30) Gizmodo and not Leo Laporte too. I mean if I am going to get banned…

Joshua Topolsky You’ve got to do a post about it.

Leo Laporte I should say, I was banned. I don’t know if I was banned. I didn’t ask. We’ve got plenty of people there.

Joshua Topolsky It isn’t really a shocker, is it?

Leo Laporte No.

Joshua Topolsky I mean the way, especially the way Jobs was talking.

Leo Laporte You were at the D8 conference, weren’t you, Joshua?

Joshua Topolsky No.

Leo Laporte So let’s take – I tell you what? We’re going to take a break, come back in a bit and get Joshua’s report from D8. We’ll also do a lightning round, I am sure there’s about 800 other stories we got to get to. It’s too much fun having you guys on. We’re going to get you back soon. But right now we are going to take a little break, Mark Milian is here. Julio Ojeda-Zapata, and Joshua Topolsky, one of the smartest groups we’ve ever had here since last week.

I am good that way; I don’t want to – I don’t want to make any implications. I do want to remind you about I tell you what, I am loving it. I am listening out to The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, that Millennium Trilogy and I am just loving it. Simon Vance is such a good reader.

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Julio Ojeda-Zapata Leo, I sometimes find it amazing that you – you recommend Audible. Because after I’m done listening to all your podcasts, I don’t have any time. But…

Leo Laporte I know, there does seem to be a conflict of interest, doesn’t it?

Julio Ojeda-Zapata But let me tell you my favorite Audible experience. Last summer, my wife and I moved into – we lived in a condo for the longest time, we finally bought a house. Last summer, we were doing things like building retaining walls and things…

Leo Laporte Oh, boy.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata And I was out in the sun for hours.

Leo Laporte You were actually doing manual labor?

Julio Ojeda-Zapata We’re doing it all ourselves.

Leo Laporte I’m so amazed, I’m impressed.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata And I went through all your podcasts in no time at all and had nothing to listen to. So I listened to The Road…

Leo Laporte Oh, isn’t that a great – Cormac McCarthy. Isn’t that a great book?

Julio Ojeda-Zapata Oh, wonderful, absolutely wonderful.

Leo Laporte Do you have kids?

Julio Ojeda-Zapata I have a 12-year old.

Leo Laporte Yeah. A boy?

Julio Ojeda-Zapata Yes.

Leo Laporte Oh, then it’s a must-read, it’s about a father and son and a post apocalyptic world, it’s…

Julio Ojeda-Zapata Well, I read it in print before, and it just…

Leo Laporte It comes to – it kills you, yeah.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata Killed me. But I was listening to it again, and it was a wonderful execution of the book. And the irony of listening to society having been destroyed while I was building essentially society with my bare hands.

Leo Laporte Cool. That’s really cool.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata It was a great experience. I just…

Leo Laporte Yeah, yeah. Often I’ll re-read a book by listening to it, and it really does – it’s another experience, I think.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata And I swore when I read The Road in print, I’d never read it again. But I’m really glad I listened to it in Audible.

Leo Laporte You know what’s another good book that I read in paper form and then listened to and it came alive is Martel Yann’s The Life of Pi. Have you read that? What a great – and the reading of it, it’s – it might be one of my favorite audiobooks of all time.

So I mentioned that it is on Android now, there’s a beta, you have to join the Google Groups, so go to Google Groups and search for it, Android Audible. And it’s – yeah, there’s a couple of bugs, I notice. But boy, this is better – this beats the iPhone client. Because the iPhone client’s just iTunes basically, you sync them up and you can listen to them. This has…

Joshua Topolsky How much are they paying you, Leo? Unless it’s…

Leo Laporte Not – well they are an advisers…

Joshua Topolsky How much is Google paying you to say that?

Leo Laporte I love Google! I have become a Google fanboy, I admit it.

No this is great, because they’ve got – you should look at the app. Put it on you EVO, I’ve got it on my Nexus One and my EVO. You’ve got details about the book, you’ve got chapters, you can bookmark any part of the book, so that if you – there’s a good moment you could go back to it.

But it also has Foursquare-style badges. It keeps – it’s got a visualize so that it – it keeps track of how much – you can see all the stats of how much you’ve listened, total hours and minutes listened, and then there’s like a ladder. But it also – I think it’s really cool – it has Foursquare-style badges. And then it has a sleep function, which I use a lot. So now I can – I guess your iPhone does that, doesn’t it? You can sleep? So you’re listening to the book and you can say okay, I know I’m going to fall sleep after half an hour, so make sure you turn it off after half an hour.

Joshua Topolsky Fall sleep while reading?

Leo Laporte Never.

Joshua Topolsky Or listening, I guess.

Leo Laporte Yes, of course I do.

Joshua Topolsky Yeah.

Leo Laporte Don’t you?

Joshua Topolsky I mean, I don’t – I don’t listen to books, I read.

Leo Laporte But – so maybe this is just me, but I find that I cannot go to sleep unless I read a book. That’s how I go to sleep.

Joshua Topolsky Well, no, that always puts me out.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Puts you right out.

Joshua Topolsky But before I actually collapse into slumber, I put the books back, usually.

Leo Laporte My wife does not. Every night.

Joshua Topolsky I’m not one of those people who like fall sleep with a book on their chest.

Leo Laporte Every night, my wife – she’s got the reading glasses on, the light on, and the book. Sometimes – I don’t know how she does this, it’s kind of a magic trick. The book – she’s still holding the book in the air, and she’s out like a light. I don’t know how she does it. It’s a magic trick.

Joshua Topolsky You’re making that up.

Leo Laporte I know, it sounds unbelievable, but it’s true.

Joshua Topolsky That’s completely unbelievable. I think to the point that I’m thinking that maybe you just lied.


Leo Laporte Hey, horses sleep standing up, why can’t my wife sleep reading?

Joshua Topolsky Really, that is not a good road to go down.


Mark Milian Not a great comparison.

Joshua Topolsky You made the biggest mistake of your life.

Leo Laporte Okay, that’s twice now, because earlier didn’t I say something bad? I don’t forget it.

Joshua Topolsky I think it’s best to not repeat it.

Leo Laporte You’re right. What are you talking about, honey? No, you know the beauty of this is? She does not listen to any of my podcasts. None, zero, zip.

Joshua Topolsky I think we know why.

Leo Laporte Yeah, because I’m – no, I love her. She is wonderful, wonderful.

What did I say we were going to talk about?

Joshua Topolsky D, talking about D I think.

Leo Laporte D. Yeah, how was D? Was it good.

Joshua Topolsky D was actually pretty great. I mean, you know, you have a Jobs interview, you never get to see Jobs interview, right? So I mean really, the man doesn’t give interviews.

Leo Laporte No, in fact the last one was at D.

Joshua Topolsky And believe me I’ve asked, repeatedly.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Joshua Topolsky So the thing about it that was great, [ph] Walt and Kara (65:35) don’t hold punches, as I’m sure you know.

Leo Laporte No, they did a good job, I thought.

Joshua Topolsky They went in – and they went in on everything you thought, well, they’re not going to ask about that.

Leo Laporte Right. right.

Joshua Topolsky Right? And they just went for it. And they went right off the bat. Second question was about the phone. The first question was about Flash stuff. And they just got into it, I thought it was really good. But then you had – so you had Jobs, we can talk about that if you want, but then there was also Ballmer was there, Peter Chou from HTC, James Cameron.

Leo Laporte And Mark sweaty Zuckerberg.

Mark Milian That sounds very entertaining.

Joshua Topolsky Yeah, Zuckerberg.

Leo Laporte Wow.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata Since you were D, could I ask you a question?

Joshua Topolsky Yes.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata Was Zuck – in your opinion, was Zuckerberg sweating because he was on the spot, or was he sweating because he was hot, because of the heat?

Leo Laporte Was it hot in there?

Joshua Topolsky He was not sweating because it was hot. I could tell you, I could tell you that if you see it – have they released the full video of that?

Leo Laporte I have not seen the full video, I’ve seen clips.

Mark Milian Did they have like a big space heater right next to Zuckerberg?

Joshua Topolsky I think he had – to be honest with you, I think he had like a panic attack…

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Joshua Topolsky You know, on stage. I think that he started talking about something that has been a real controversy and you know, you have these moments and I’ve done it, I mean everybody has.

Leo Laporte They call it – in performing arts, they call it flop sweats.

Joshua Topolsky You know moments of panic where…

Leo Laporte Yeah, it’s just not going well and it’s going worse and worse and worse.

Joshua Topolsky And it hits you and you start – for me, it’s like I step outside myself for a second, I say, wait a second, this is awful, what am I doing?

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Joshua Topolsky Right? And it’s kind of freak out a little bit.

Leo Laporte Flop sweats.

Joshua Topolsky And I feel bad for him, it’s very – I mean, everybody was like, what is going on?

Leo Laporte I think if you were – I think you could almost make a case that he did himself more good than harm, because I think everybody felt, oh god!

Mark Milian Yeah, he seems more human.

Leo Laporte Humanized.

Mark Milian But Julio and I were talking about this before. And it’s like a 26-year old to you. He’s done a lot of great things and gotten lucky. But you’re going up against veterans. You’re going up against the hardest reporters out there. It’s a tough situation to be in, I’m surprised he even took them up on it especially at that point.

Leo Laporte He needed to. He needed to.

Joshua Topolsky Yeah, but he blew it. I mean the thing is…

Leo Laporte It didn’t go well.

Joshua Topolsky He needed to get on stage and make everybody feel like, hey, I know what’s going on, I know what I’m doing, I’m going to fix the stuff that people don’t like, we’re going to make the stuff that people do like way better. And instead it was – it was weird, it just got weird, it got…

Leo Laporte He was the wrong guy to do it, but there’s nobody else either it seems like, not [Indiscernible] (67:41) for sure, so.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata He never directly answered any questions.

Leo Laporte Not one.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata He just kind of rambled all over the place.

Leo Laporte What do you think is going on? Are they – are they – is it just – is it inarticulateness? Is it that they’re really trying to hide something? What’s going on? Are they really evil? Are they the Illuminati?

Julio Ojeda-Zapata Well, I’ve never met Mark Zuckerberg or know him, I probably never will. But I’m just – I’m going on my gut here. The guy which is fundamentally in my opinion is not an honorable person in the sense of putting a customer first. He’s really thrilled with the little clubhouse. He’s built for his friends. He’s relishing the power. He does have a vision for where the service is going. But – and he’s pursuing that vision, and at the expense often of the customer. And that bothers me. And that fundamentally influences my use of this product.

Leo Laporte Well, I – as you know, I quit because I just – I didn’t know what I could – what was going on there.

Joshua Topolsky You’re going to go back, though, right? You’re going to…

Leo Laporte Oh, yeah, I already went back, I have a [indiscernible] (69:15).

Joshua Topolsky Okay, so here’s the thing about Mark Zuckerberg.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Joshua Topolsky I think the problem is that we all expect that because he had a really good idea with Facebook and he continues to have good ideas about the service – and some are bad, obviously. But he knows one thing. He did this thing and he does it, he did it really well, obviously.

I just think that we make the assumption that he should also have a great mind for knowing how to treat users’ privacy, or knowing how to treat users…

Leo Laporte He’s just a programmer, maybe. Maybe he’s just a geeky programmer.

Joshua Topolsky Yeah, I just think we shouldn’t expect him to be able to have all those answers. I mean the problem is, they need somebody who does – who has the answers, who can effectively say I get what is right and what’s wrong for users. He doesn’t seem to understand that aspect of the business. And I think that it’s dangerous for everybody to walk around and say, well, why doesn’t he just have the answer, when – there are a lot of people who wouldn’t have the answer.

So I mean he may be very good at one thing but not good at another. And I feel like he needs a committee and that committee needs to be really smart about this stuff. And I’m not sure that that committee is there. I mean he says they have these meetings and they go over it and he’s got some advisors. I assume he has people who are very close to him, but they probably also think like he does. So he needs somebody to step in and say here’s your vision, and here’s reality and the two have to find a way to meet and I’m going to be the person to do that.

Leo Laporte It’s very simple. Who said this? I can’t remember who said it on one of our shows this week. Facebook needs an – I don’t know, somebody said this – needs an ombudsman that represents the user. Just like the New York Times and many – and I’m sure the LA Times have ombudsmen that represent readers. They need somebody who can clearly articulate what’s going on. And they need, very simply to be opt in. If they’re not opt in, I don’t buy it. If they don’t flip the switch and say everything is private until you say so, they’re breaking their commitment to users. And I think that they’re never going to do that, because it’s not as profitable as what they’re doing.

Joshua Topolsky Well, I mean it may not be as profitable, but…

Leo Laporte They have to do it. That was the promise.

Joshua Topolsky Quit Facebook Day was a failure, right? It’s not what everybody says.

Leo Laporte Well, failure because only 35,000 quit and probably more people joined in five minutes than quit in a whole day.

Joshua Topolsky It hasn’t reached critical mass. I mean, will it? That’s the question. I don’t think so. I mean it’s like, very inside baseball. The privacy complaints in a lot of ways are very much in the tech world and in the – in our space, people really think about and talk about it. But to the users at large, to the people that – high school students and the grandmas and [indiscernible] (71:51)…

Leo Laporte They don’t know.

Joshua Topolsky They’re not thinking about it. They’re not worried about it, either. I mean I think the issue is, somebody is worried about it and somebody should be worried about it. And Facebook doesn’t need to be necessarily way out in front of it to the community at large. They need to be out in front of it to the people who are thinking about it watching them.

Leo Laporte You know, it’s possible for Facebook to suffer from this or it would be if there were an alternative. I think MySpace is a good example. MySpace fell apart because there was Facebook. But there’s nothing right now that people who quit Facebook can logically go to. I mean I looked at my Orkut page, it’s…

Joshua Topolsky Isn’t Facebook the combination of Friendster and MySpace? I mean isn’t it, all the things that those guys did wrong, they did right?

Leo Laporte Yeah, but does that mean that that’s the end of the line? Or is there a next one? I mean there’s Friendster, MySpace, Facebook.

Joshua Topolsky Is there a next Twitter?

Leo Laporte Yeah, there’s a next Twitter, don’t you think?

Joshua Topolsky What is it?

Leo Laporte I don’t know.

Joshua Topolsky Right. Well, I mean so we don’t know. But at this point it’s like, right, there’s Google for search. There’s Twitter for…

Leo Laporte I think – yeah. But I think it would be foolish, I mean it would be foolish for anybody to say, oh that’s it, we’re done. It’s like the patent inspector in the 1920s saying, well, everything’s been invented, so we can close the patent office.

Joshua Topolsky No, no, I agree. I think – what is the project called? Diaspora?

Leo Laporte Diaspora, I don’t know if Diaspora’s it either, although I noticed that they cashed my check.


Joshua Topolsky Cool idea though.

Leo Laporte It’s a great idea.

Mark Milian They suffer from a very, very poisonous problem of having so much money to start and…

Leo Laporte They wanted ten thousand, they got several hundred thousand.

Joshua Topolsky Right. Now there’s all of this pressure and everybody watching.

Leo Laporte It’s four NYU students. You know what, what’s going to happen, I think this is actually going to be fine. Is that the open source community is going to come to them, developers are going to come to them, people are going to say, look: you are now the de facto leaders of this movement. Let us help you. Let us help you.

Joshua Topolsky That makes sense, wouldn’t it, if the whole idea – I agree, though, it’s tough when all of a sudden you say, hey, we’re going to build this solution to Facebook that everybody – we’re going to make everybody feel comfortable and we’re going to do the same kind of stuff. And then you’ve got to build it, and you’ve got all this pressure.

Leo Laporte I know. Maybe it’s not Facebook, maybe it’s something else. I think an open granular federated solution is probably a better solution than a single model of a company. Bits and pieces from a variety of places. I think there are ways to solve this. And I feel the same way about Twitter. I don’t think one company should be the arbiter of all of this.

Joshua Topolsky Twitter should be the pipes, shouldn’t it? I feel like it’s the same thing. But Facebook is a platform, right? But I think it’s a platform – I don’t use it the way most people use it. I don’t know how you guys use it. But the privacy stuff doesn’t really – I’m not worried about it, because I expect anything that I put on Facebook is going to be sort of made public.

Leo Laporte Yeah. I know that. Yeah, I’m smart enough to say, okay, I’m going to use this as a public venue. But I just feel like by having a page on Facebook, I’m encouraging others to participate, maybe others who are not as sophisticated. Like my family and friends. So I just – I said I’m not going to be there. I’m not going to play in that space, I don’t trust – you know what, fundamentally, I don’t trust them. That’s all.

Joshua Topolsky Right. And why should you? I mean…

Leo Laporte Look at them! Would you trust this guy?

Joshua Topolsky No look, he was probably – when he was speaking, he was just plotting something to do.

Leo Laporte It looks like Nathan Fern, the Martin Short’s character, lawyer character on Saturday Night Live was – ‘yeah, I knew that. I knew that.’

Joshua Topolsky ‘I’m not being defensive.’

Leo Laporte ‘I’m not being defensive.’

Joshua Topolsky ‘Why are you being defensive?’

Leo Laporte And what’s with the sweatshirt, okay? What’s with the sweatshirt?

Mark Milian Poor kid.

Leo Laporte I know, I know. I’m just piling on him.

Joshua Topolsky Oh, the poor billionaire.

Leo Laporte He’s got the money, he can afford it. I’m just piling on him.

Mark Milian Coming back to what Josh was saying before. I mean Mark is just 26, he’s inexperienced as a spokesperson and as a CEO.

Leo Laporte Right.

Mark Milian Where he’s being thrust into this onstage – he’s awful on stage. If you see any of those F8 conferences, he is…

Leo Laporte It is not the first time this has happened.

Mark Milian No. He’s not charismatic. He’s not a great onstage speaker. And to put him in front of Walt Mossberg and Cara Swisher is like throwing meat into the shark’s den.

Leo Laporte Do they feel like they piled on?

Joshua Topolsky They actually weren’t that bad.

Mark Milian They seemed fair, but they’re seasoned veterans.

Leo Laporte They are no Sarah Lacy.

Mark Milian He was preceded on stage by Steve Ballmer and Jobs. Like these guys have been at it for a very long time and they know what to expect.

Joshua Topolsky Yeah, I think that I agree with Mark.

Leo Laporte We’re not going to pick on them anymore.

Joshua Topolsky No, I mean – but okay, but you asked about the sweatshirt, the Illuminati thing, it’s a little weird, it’s a little odd.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata And that goes back to my – the point I made earlier. This guy is just enamored with call it like, the little clubhouse that he’s built. I mean he thinks more fondly of that than of his customers. That really bothers me.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Here’s Mark.

[Video clip]

Leo Laporte I’ve seen this before. When you work on TV, you see this happen all the time. Somebody comes on and you’re interviewing them, and their brain just isn’t working. They’re so scared, they’re so nervous, that their brain’s not working and what comes out is mincemeat. And I’ve seen this before and I’m actually very sympathetic for him. He should have been drunk, he would have been much better.

Joshua Topolsky Seriously, a little glass of Vodka goes a long way before you go out. I mean it [indiscernible] (77:28).

Mark Milian Yeah, I mean he’s just pulling cliché after cliché out of his hat. Going back to like the start up, oh we were just two kids in a dorm room, just myself in a dorm room.

Joshua Topolsky You want to harp on how small of a company they actually are, you know. And I think that he did try to sort of tell – paint this picture, we’re just a small company, we’re just figuring stuff out. But it’s – you have a lot of – how many Facebook users are there, 400 million or something?

Leo Laporte Almost half a billion now.

Joshua Topolsky So that’s [indiscernible] (78:01)…

Leo Laporte Who is this? Cara makes him take it off.

Joshua Topolsky Yeah, you should rewind that a little bit. Well, you don’t have to, but I can tell you what to do, but. He’s kind of surprised by how much he’s sweating.

Leo Laporte Let me rewind this, if I can grasp the arrow here.

Joshua Topolsky He says whoa, and it’s weird.

[Video clip].

Leo Laporte He says whoa, because he can’t believe how sweaty he is.

Joshua Topolsky Look how scared he gets. I mean I feel bad for him. I mean he’s seriously having a panic attack.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I’ve seen it before. That’s exactly what’s going on.

Joshua Topolsky Then maybe he shouldn’t go and have interviews with Walt and Cara.

Leo Laporte Well, he won’t do it again.

Joshua Topolsky Or he might try again.

Leo Laporte Do you think there’s anybody at Facebook – and look, Cara’s so motherly, she actually starts to help him take it off. You think there’s anybody at Facebook that can tell Mark Zuckerberg not to go [indiscernible] (79:01)?

This is like two parents with a teenager helping him take off his hoodie. I mean this is real weird.

Joshua Topolsky Yeah. Maybe Brandy should tell him, his sister needs to give him some sisterly advice.

Leo Laporte Brandy. There you go.

Joshua Topolsky So how does he feel today? That’s the thing. I mean, this is what kind of sucks, right? Most of us have a bad conversation with somebody, or we say something stupid. And this is kind of how I feel about the book and all of the stuff…

Leo Laporte Wait a minute, that illuminati thing is not in the outside, it’s on the inside?

Joshua Topolsky Inside.

Leo Laporte Oh, that is creepy. Wait a minute, you can’t even see it unless they take it off?

Joshua Topolsky They recreated it on SFWeekly, have you seen that?

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Joshua Topolsky You should look at it.

Leo Laporte It has to do with open social and what the open social…

Joshua Topolsky It says 2010 in the middle, it’s like the Mission Statement for 2010, and it’s platform and…

Mark Milian Creepy.

Joshua Topolsky It does seem like – maybe they had a designer and he was like hey, check this out, it’s kind of funny or it’s cool. And they were – maybe they said, oh, we should get it in our hoodies or something, I don’t know. It was a very nonchalant, they didn’t make a big deal of it, and then all of a sudden now it’s a huge topic of discussion.

Leo Laporte Well, everybody knows it’s not that.

Joshua Topolsky Or it is a conspiracy and they’re very evil.

Mark Milian And I think I read somewhere where one of the hoodies popped up on eBay.

Leo Laporte Yes, $300.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata Some have been saying they gave hoodies out to every employee.

Leo Laporte I’d buy this. I didn’t realize it was on the inside though. I thought I this is on the outside like a biker. This is hidden.

Joshua Topolsky It does really look like a weird kind of religious symbol or like an Eye of Horus or something.

Leo Laporte No wonder they can articulate their mission. That’s their mission. Look at it. For those of you not on video, there is an SF Weekly blog post. You can go, look and see. It’s got three arrows with GRAPH, STREAM and PLATFORM, open and connected – making the world open and connected, Facebook +1, and then two arrows that don’t have anything and ai, ai, ai.

Joshua Topolsky You don’t want a pale Facebook, I don’t know.


[Ph] I saw this (1:20:53) as a joke but I don’t know if that’s it.

Leo Laporte Yeah, it’s a joke, exactly.

Joshua Topolsky Right? I mean it’s definitely – it definitely is unusual to say the least. But I am thinking about doing something like that for Engadget, little --

Leo Laporte I think we all should. I want a TWiT hoodie with a secret logo inside where only you can see it. Couple of quick lightning round moments; Mark Milian, you did a story in the blog about Twitter’s fake BP spokesman.

Mark Milian Oh, man, have you seen this?

Leo Laporte Tell me about it.

Mark Milian, it’s awesome.


I caught it fairly early on, reached out to him and did everything I could to make contact. He still won’t tell me what his name is and he does --

Leo Laporte This is some guy, right?

Mark Milian Yeah, he is finally now talking to me like a normal person. But starting out, first interview I got, he did it in character and it was hilarious.

Leo Laporte 131,000 followers in just a few weeks!

Joshua Topolsky Hilarious, I have seen this, hilarious.

Mark Milian Yeah.

Joshua Topolsky It’s really good.

Leo Laporte His latest tweet, we take this situation very seriously, which is why tonight’s oil wrestling event will be followed by a candle light vigil. Eeeez! I love it. This is really funny.

Joshua Topolsky [Indiscernible] (1:21:59). Unfortunately, I mean it sucks because they are not really – I mean --

Leo Laporte But it’s still too true. Safety is our primary concern, well, profits and safety, oh, no, profits, image, then safety, but still, it’s right up there.

Mark Milian He sent me this sort of like manifesto where he is saying, I am like a dude in my underwear doing this, and sometimes it’s easy just to get mad or keep it to yourself but here it is like a way to laugh at it instead of getting mad and it’s reaching a lot of people.

Joshua Topolsky And also probably, a lot of people think this is BP, right. There has to be people who see this and go, this is BP.

Leo Laporte Oh, sure. And I guess Twitter says they’ll take it down if there is confusion. But I don’t know, maybe nobody is complaining.

Joshua Topolsky I’ll be really annoyed.

Leo Laporte I asked them to take down – there was a fake Leo Laporte who was saying things like I mean – he was saying like sexual stuff, like crazy stuff. I asked them to take it down. They said, no, it’s parity. So --

Joshua Topolsky So they left up your second account?

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Joshua Topolsky Your secret account?

Leo Laporte My secret account, all my sexual picadillos.

Joshua Topolsky Fake Leo Laporte.

Leo Laporte The fake – nudge, nudge.

Joshua Topolsky He was writing weird sex or sexy stuff?

Leo Laporte Sexy stuff, he is a sexy guy. COMPUTEX, anything big from there, 2010, the big Taiwanese fair, I know a lot of slates?

Joshua Topolsky Yeah.

Leo Laporte Steve Gibson counted 42 or 43 something like --

Joshua Topolsky Slates that are not good, okay.

Leo Laporte Will never see the light of day.

Joshua Topolsky Well, they might. But they are all doing the same thing we’ve been – we’re seeing like bad Android. And then we’ve seen – Ballmer talked about this at D8. He talked about tablets and Windows on a tablet, what they are going to be like. And so we saw a lot of – we saw some Windows 7 tablets.

And Windows – it’s called like Embedded Compact 7, which is basically CE7, which – they are saying to people, okay, this isn’t Windows, make a different kind of skin for it, build your own tablet OS on top of it, won’t be compatible with Windows 7 but then you have Ballmer saying, well, Windows 7 is going to be a platform and then you have Windows Phone 7 --

Leo Laporte Oh, dear.

Joshua Topolsky Which is not the same thing and then --

Leo Laporte Oh, dear.

Joshua Topolsky Then you have – somebody built on Windows Compact Embedded, whatever it’s called, they built a UI, couple of guys from Microsoft that looks like Windows Phone 7. But it’s not, it was just for demonstration purposes to show people what they could do with this platform. So that’s really confused strategy on tablets from Microsoft and then everybody else was like, here is Android on a tablet but it sucks.

Leo Laporte The guy at Microsoft, Jay Allard, who shepherded Xbox and then Zune left, he says to have a life, some say because Courier didn’t happen. You think that’s credible?

Joshua Topolsky Certainly possible, I mean Courier was real. It was concept --

Leo Laporte It was real. That was – see, I always thought, oh, this is just a concept video, then --

Joshua Topolsky But the concept video was a concept.

Leo Laporte Obviously, it was real, yeah.

Joshua Topolsky The idea for the product was real. It’s [ph] being worked (1:24:58) on in Microsoft. I have talked to very good sources that say, it was real. It was in a lab somewhere being --

Leo Laporte It was a two-page tablet. It was very cool, had some neat ideas in terms of UI and –

Joshua Topolsky Yeah, really great UI ideas, I think what happened is – one of two things happened I think. They couldn’t get it there, right. They couldn’t get it to where it needed to be. After a lot of trying, they said, well, we got to [indiscernible] (1:25:24) this thing or they just didn’t want to have yet another platform to support because inevitably, if you do this crazy new UI, you have a new platform to support. And maybe they didn’t feel the market was big enough.

Leo Laporte Right.

Joshua Topolsky I mean the crazy thing about tablets is Microsoft was there. They were in the market. They were --

Leo Laporte There. They thought it was the next big thing.

Joshua Topolsky Right, well, so, Ballmer talked about how with the phone, with the iPhone and phones they missed a cycle. And now they are playing catch up.

Leo Laporte Right.

Joshua Topolsky So they have done exactly the same thing with tablets. They missed a cycle. If the Courier isn’t happening or something like the Courier soon – and as far as we can tell based on what we saw at COMPUTEX, it’s not because what they had at COMPUTEX was like Frankenstein stuff.

Leo Laporte Right.

Joshua Topolsky So if it’s not happening soon then they are missing a cycle. Apple’s already sold 2 million. Now they are not defining this new market of tablets. Most people didn’t know what a tablet was before the iPad and now almost everybody knows and a lot of people are buying them. So there’s still another 5 million, 6 million, 10 million before Microsoft even gets in the game.

Leo Laporte Oh, boy.

Joshua Topolsky So they did it again. They missed a cycle.

Leo Laporte Yup.

Joshua Topolsky And it’s a huge setback for them. And it’s weird because they have wanted to do this for so long.

Leo Laporte They invented it. Bill Gates has been pushing it for 10 years.

Mark Milian I wonder if they hesitated about the pen input, which is a big part of the --

Leo Laporte They love the stylus.

Mark Milian No, Bill Gates loves the stylus and he still does.

Leo Laporte And he’s so wrong. And he’s so wrong.

Mark Milian I don’t know because Courier had the option, right. You could use your fingers or you can switch to a pen and it has handwriting recognition.

Leo Laporte Windows 7 has touch. So Windows 7 can do and it’s multi-touch.

Joshua Topolsky I mean it’s – the pen input is – I think it’s a good idea. Yes, include pen input, make it great. Do touch as well, make that great. And you’ve done something that Apple hasn’t done.

Leo Laporte Right

Joshua Topolsky You have an opportunity --

Leo Laporte As much as Bill likes the stylus, Steve hates it, does not like the stylus.

Joshua Topolsky Oh, [indiscernible] (1:27:15) the stylus [indiscernible] (1:27:15) it, I know that

Leo Laporte Yup.

Mark Milian Although I use the stylus on the iPad quite a bit.

Leo Laporte Do you use the – you use the Pogo?

Mark Milian Yeah.

Leo Laporte I bought one and I have it. I found I don’t use it that much.

Joshua Topolsky It is coming not that good.

Leo Laporte No, it’s got a little puff on the end of it.

Joshua Topolsky You have to press really hard. You’re fine with that, Julio?

Julio Ojeda-Zapata Well, I’m a horrible neat nick. And I get – I have my moments where the smudginess on my iPad screen – I just --

Leo Laporte It’s disgusting.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata I am just about to lose it.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata [Indiscernible] (1:27:47) I just – for sanity’s sake, I don’t have Pogo.

Leo Laporte Julio is actually [indiscernible] (1:27:48) – he is the [indiscernible] (1:27:51).

Julio Ojeda-Zapata That’s right

Leo Laporte Yeah, that is kind of gross. You have to [ph] carry it (1:27:55). By the way, oh, look, the hoodie is now $1,025 on eBay and 15% goes to the EFF.

Joshua Topolsky Wow.

Leo Laporte I am not – yeah, it’s pretty cool, pretty cool, that lining, it’s kind of neat.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata Well, my main question, [indiscernible] (1:28:10) question and I am wondering what you guys think is, is everybody just – is the main thing happening here is everybody just scrambling and retrenching because of the iPad, Lenovo, slate --

Leo Laporte Yeah, remember that UX1 that they showed at the CES, Lenovo [indiscernible] (1:28:25) which is cool, but gone.

Mark Milian And you know what HP said about the Palm purchase, the CEO said, it’s not getting into the smartphone market. It is beyond that but --

Leo Laporte They keep coming back and forth. They can’t decide.

Joshua Topolsky They can’t track.

Leo Laporte We’re killing the slate. We’re not killing the slate. WebOS is for --

Joshua Topolsky Which is said – he said really clearly, right, Mark, he was like, I don’t know why people don’t get it. We bought Web – we bought Palm for WebOS to put on slates. I think they are just trying to push it and say, yeah, we are going to do smartphones, but we’ll get in this game big time. We’ll get a great OS for it. But, yeah, I think, Julio, that’s what you were saying. People are scrambling now. Everybody [indiscernible] (1:29:06) it’s same thing with the iPhone. People said well, Apple is not just going to walk in here. Remember Palm?

Leo Laporte Right, aha!

Joshua Topolsky Apple’s is not – going to do this thing.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata But that is my question to you, how much of the Apple factor is to blame for the Courier being killed? Do you have any idea?

Leo Laporte Why was the Courier killed?

Joshua Topolsky I think that it must have been – if the Courier was a great product. [Indiscernible] (1:29:32) believing they got it to be a great product. That’s my theory, okay.

Leo Laporte They just couldn’t get it to work.

Joshua Topolsky But I think that has a lot to do with those – the shake up – the sort of – not just the Courier, but a lot of things. The Kin is a good example. I think Microsoft has been has somehow got admired in a really – I mean they always have a problem with direction but now it seems sort of worse than ever and they’ve got – they release – they talk about this great new phone platform. It is going to integrate all of these services like Xbox and then a few months later they say, oh, we also have this other new phone platform and it does not do all that stuff. It’s built of the same thing but it’s not the same thing – they are miserable, they’re not good phones and I think that the Courier might have been part of that whole – can’t get a foothold, can’t find their bearings, just like directionless stuff and they need to change, they need to execute. You heard what [ph] Balmer said at dee (90:19) he said we learnt lesson about not executing with the iPhone and with what would Apple did?

Leo Laporte They really are not.

Joshua Topolsky Maybe now they are getting it, I don’t know. But again they missed the cycle, though. But I think Apple has a lot to do with – I don’t think they react to Apple necessarily, or they do they’re just really, really slow to react. But everybody else reacts and everybody is reacting.

Leo Laporte There’s so much more to talk about but I don’t want to keep you guys any longer. Would you like my shirt? Isn’t that good?

Mark Milian I love the shirt. Did Digg made that for you?

Leo Laporte No, I made it. Digg IV was my idea. You know why? Because it was my idea but I don’t – that’s a story for another day. Kevin says he will come on when Digg IV comes out and he will demo it for us first on TWiT which might be as soon as next week, I am not sure exactly when. So I got these – somebody sent me these T-shirts because I told Kevin this, I said, two years ago I told Kevin I don’t care what other people dig, I want to follow people like Mark and Julio, and Josh and I – those digs – those are the ones I care about not the dweebs who ‘look Super Mario Cart 15 is out.’ I don’t care about that. So, that’s what I think Digg IV is going to do, is going to follow.

Mark Milian I like the idea that it actually – you tell it – your Facebook account and your Twitter account and it just goes in there.

Leo Laporte Yeah. That’s because you care about it.

Mark Milian Yeah

Leo Laporte Gets your social graph, that’s what everybody does.

Joshua Topolsky I don’t know that sounds like Buzz like ….

Mark Milian But Buzz does not organize any of it. They just you spew it out there like Twitter does. It seems like their, their concept was to take all of this data that you are putting out there and kind of put it in a logical readable stream but they haven’t gone that far.

Leo Laporte I love buzz and I am going to hang out with buzz forever and…

Joshua Topolsky I don’t get it, why?

Leo Laporte Because it’s better than Twitter.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata Well, I’ve been getting into Buzz a lot lately for a couple of reasons – so it’s in TweetDeck so that makes it a little easier for me. I fired up the secondary Gmail account that I don’t use for my primary but that’s where my Buzz is, I fired that up in mail app and then the – the other thing I am looking forward to is [ph] posterous or posterous (92:32) or some debate about the pronunciation. You can - within the blog when you post on it, you can automatically push your content to different places and Buzz isn’t one of those right now but it’s going to be really soon and so those three things are kind of making me revisit buzz and use it quite a bit lately.

Joshua Topolsky So, here’s the deal. I would like Buzz a lot, I like a lot of the technology. I would like Buzz a lot more if it were – I don’t want my Twitter stuff or my conversations with people to be connected to my email account or any of my personal information. I don’t want it to look at my location unless I tell it. I don’t want it to do and I know you can opt out of all that stuff now but the idea that it’s in my inbox is so deeply unattractive to me. It is – makes me not want to use the service at all. I would use it if I could go somewhere, it had its own portal, it was separate from all of my stuff. I logged in like I do with Twitter and I could have conversations in there separate from all of my personal information, separate from my email contacts unless I wanted it. It just feels way too connected to my other stuff, to my personal stuff.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata Yeah, I agree with you 100% that’s why I have my Google apps domain customise email and hat is my primary email and then this other Gmail account, generic Gmail. It’s my Google reader and my Buzz and that’s it.

Joshua Topolsky Well, I have the same thing but it’s, it’s – then I have to go back and forth between – I have to be in that inbox at some point which just seems – which just seems crazy to me. Why not make Buzz a service like Twitter, I mean you have the technology. Say, just make it separate.

Leo Laporte Well, there is just a setting that says don’t put buzzes in my inbox and then you set that and then it’s…

Julio Ojeda-Zapata And if you are using it in TweetDeck or Seesmic it is, it is a service.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I don’t have the same issue but …

Joshua Topolsky Yeah, maybe I will revisit it.

Mark Milian Here’s another tip if you can’t stand staring at that Buzz 100 plus below your inbox that I found last week you can just drag Buzz down into your labels and it hides it.

Leo Laporte Oh, it’s just a label. So, you just take that and you drag it down here and you put it there and then you don’t see it anymore. Except I want it there because I check, I click the Buzz more often than I click the inbox.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata Am a little slow on the uptake by the way just started using colored labels and Gmail so.

Mark Milian Oh, my God! Colored labels is huge.

Leo Laporte Huge, huge.

Joshua Topolsky Oh, my God! It’s like I have so many crazy customized. When I scan my email now, I don’t even look at the label name…

Leo Laporte Just the color? Yeah.

Joshua Topolsky Just the colors. Yeah, it’s so helpful.

Leo Laporte That’s interesting. See I think one of the reasons maybe you guys don’t like Buzz so much is because you love Gmail so much. It’s like you don’t want to – you put peanut butter in my Gmail.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata No, I like Buzz because it is in Gmail.

Joshua Topolsky See, I am the opposite. I like Gmail as this sort of pure…

Leo Laporte Keep it pure, yeah

Joshua Topolsky Email experience.

Leo Laporte Alright, we are going to run because – I don’t know why because I could go on for hours but the people seem to tell me that that’s maybe a little too long but boy I love having you guys on, please come back. Mark Milian is with the LA Times. You can read him online and his website is follow him on Twitter@markmilian.

Mark Milian Awesome.

Leo Laporte Thank you for coming on Mark, great to see you again.

Mark Milian Always great to be here.

Leo Laporte Mr. Julio Ojeda-Zapata is at the PiPress which I love that, that’s really – that’s a great name for it. The St. Paul Pioneer Press. You can follow him online at and he’s Jojeda…

Julio Ojeda-Zapata Jojeda is the Twitter.

Leo Laporte On Twitter. Is it Jojeda or Jojeda?

Julio Ojeda-Zapata It’s first initial last name. So [Indiscernible] (1:35:54).

Leo Laporte [Indiscernible] (1:35:55). Nice to see you again.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata You pronounce, you pronounce my name amazingly well by the way.

Leo Laporte I should do it like they do it sometimes in San Francisco because they are trying to be very, hip and Latino, they’ll roll the r’s, I could go [indiscernible] (1:36:07) would that be better for you, would you be happier.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata Very impressive.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata By the way I belong to a secret tribe called the Twittericans which is the Twitter using Puerto Rican.

Leo Laporte That’s good.

Julio Ojeda-Zapata And a shout out to the Mayor [ph] Rafi Melavida (1:36:22).

Leo Laporte The Twittericans.

Joshua Topolsky I am also a member of…

Leo Laporte Of course you are, Topolsky that’s a great Puerto Rican name.

Joshua Topolsky Yes very Puerto Rican name.

Leo Laporte Josh Topolsky is the Editor-in-chief of Engadget, the gadget blog as far as I am concerned and also hosts the Engadget podcast where can we find that Engadget podcast.

Joshua Topolsky Well it’s on iTunes we put it up [indiscernible] (1:36:42) we also do the Engadget show which I don’t know if you’ve seen but it’s a monthly live show with guests, luminaries from the tech world.

Leo Laporte You do that on Ustream right?

Joshua Topolsky We do, the Engadget show we stream now using Brightcove and then we also put it up on iTunes and…

Leo Laporte Okay.

Joshua Topolsky So we do the podcast and the show and we have short segments where we go on location places and good times.

Leo Laporte Very cool.

Joshua Topolsky See there is one right there we interviewed Jon Rubinstein

Leo Laporte Jon Rubinstein [ph] big shifter (97:05).

Joshua Topolsky That’s the first one, we are just about to do our tenth show. So we do one month, we have a live event at the Time Center in New York City. We get an audience…

Leo Laporte That’s really neat, I like that. Find that on as well.

Joshua Topolsky Thanks for having me.

Leo Laporte Josh, it’s really nice to meet you, thank you so much for coming in and being a part of the show. We really appreciate it.

Joshua Topolsky Glad to be here.

Leo Laporte Thanks to all of you for watching, we do, do TWiT and I again take four it was my idea, we do do TWiT every Sunday around 3 ‘o clock Pacific Time, 6 PM Eastern, that’s 2,200 UTC at and then you could subscribe whenever you are in the mood on iTunes [ph] or the zone (1:37:44), best thing to do is to go to and that will give you all the information you need about getting the show in video or audio. Or on YouTube, We will back tomorrow for those of you who are watching live we are doing a special edition live show Tom Merritt, Alex Lindsay, Andy Ihnatko, Don McAllister and Becky Worley all will be covering WWDC Becky, John. I am sorry Becky, Andy and Don will be in the hall blogging live. Andy and Tom will be here in our studio. We begin that at 9:42AM Pacific Time, that’s 12:42 Eastern at so if you are interested in what Steve has to say you – there is no video. I wish they would stream video but they don’t stream video, so you just have to watch. Engadget will be live blogging. I am sure gdgt all the other sites, but we kind of aggregate it all into one big mishmash so you can find out what’s going on.

Thank you for being here. We will see you next week, another TWiT is in the can.

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