TWiT 254/Transcript

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Episode 254


This transcript is provided by our friends at Pods in Print

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This is TWiT, this WEEK in TECH, Episode 254, recorded June 27, 2010: Digg 4 Was My Idea.

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This is TWiT, this WEEK in TECH, our 254th episode and continuing soccer trying to understand what’s going on in the world with tech and I’m so glad one of the original twitters is here. That doesn’t sound right. One of the original people who tweeted twitter – no that doesn’t sound – Kevin Rose, my old friend is here. Hi, Kevin.

Kevin Rose Thanks for having me.

Leo Laporte Good to see you. We’ve got some big announcements from Kevin today.

Kevin Rose Semi-big.

Leo Laporte One really big, one huge and then one we don’t know because he won’t tell me.

Kevin Rose That’s right.

Leo Laporte Also with us, Ohdoctah, Owen Ohdoctah Stone.

Owen JJ Stone Yes.

Leo Laporte He’s in the house. Hello.

Owen JJ Stone Digg 4 Was My Idea even though you’re right here.

Leo Laporte You like my shirt?

Owen JJ Stone That’s amazing.

Leo Laporte Thanks for the t-shirts plus for sending me that it says, “Digg 4 Was My Idea” because it was Kevin but I’ll explain that later.

Owen JJ Stone Hopefully, it’s everything you dreamt of. Hopefully, it’s everything you dreamt of.

Leo Laporte I’m thinking of this but we’ll see. We’re going to take a look at – that’s the, that’s new story one. We’re going to get a look at the brand new Digg 4 and Kevin’s very kindly offered to do this for the first time.

Kevin Rose [ph] Demo here first (02:31) in public.

Owen JJ Stone I suggest people get logged in now or where we’re going.

Kevin Rose Well, yes, I was going to say…

Owen JJ Stone You can start with us.

Kevin Rose So the little announcements were opening up just for the first time just to the TWiT audience right now, so if you go to and then click on request and invite, once you do that, put it in your Digg user name and password and it’ll let you right in. You are in.

Owen JJ Stone So request and invitation okay.

Kevin Rose Oh, that’s it? You don’t need to do anything special.

Kevin Rose Nothing special.

Owen JJ Stone And that lasts until 4:30 today.

Kevin Rose Until 4:30, yeah.

Leo Laporte 4:30 Pacific so, it’s only for people who’re watching live right at this moment.

Owen JJ Stone Yep.

Leo Laporte So I’ll just tell…

Owen JJ Stone I was planning to come to the show.

Leo Laporte Oh, man this is so exciting. Let me, let me take it off here before I [indiscernible] (03:11) my password. I mean, I enter my email address. Oh, I see, I click – I don’t need a password.

Kevin Rose You should put request and invite and then…

Leo Laporte I’ll login now. Oh! good, good, good – there we go.

Kevin Rose It might not let you in and tell you actually – you have to request an invite for us.

Leo Laporte Let me in.

Kevin Rose Let him in.

Leo Laporte So what do you think, is this new, is this the new one?

Kevin Rose That’s it. that’s part of the [indiscernible] (03:32) boarding now.

Leo Laporte So tell me about the process. What is Digg 4 all about?

Kevin Rose So essentially, [indiscernible] (03:40) log in, get this done. And coming back at the Digg, to give people little, little background, I started the company five years ago, but I really kind of stepped out and let other people run the show for a while and so, I was busy….

Leo Laporte You were busy you were doing other stuff.

Kevin Rose I was doing [indiscernible] investing (03:58) stuff and just – just three stuffs.

Leo Laporte This is – I don’t think we know that you really weren’t part of Digg?

Kevin Rose I mean I was there a couple days of week, but outside of that I was busy just working on other projects, helping on other entrepreneurs and I sat down with Mark [ph] Andreas in a while ago (04:13). He’s one of our board members and investors and talked to him about some of the frustrations I had with not being able to scale Digg and we had problems for years on scaling Digg like we couldn’t write any new features.

Finally, the new Digg deal, you’ll see it’s a lot faster because it’s all based on Cassandra backend. We’ve got to appoint where we can actually develop new features again. So I was like, well – this is great, I can actually see some of these features that I wanted for a long time.

Leo Laporte So that’s interesting. So you weren’t satisfied with where Digg was. You just couldn’t change it because of the technology.

Kevin Rose We – we haven’t rolled out anything new in the last two years – two – two and half years and like that.

Leo Laporte Since the Digg lab stuff that you did the flash stuff – since that was cool…

Kevin Rose Digg D3 …

Leo Laporte Yes.

Kevin Rose About two-three months after that is one thing, start of falling over just from the traffic.

Leo Laporte Wow, so was that – was that a hockey stick at traffic, I mean was there any?

Kevin Rose I mean, it’s – Digg still is 27-nish million people a month, [indiscernible] (05:10) a month…

Leo Laporte Gee.

Kevin Rose And so it’s like, it’s just scaled that kind of traffic, it requires a special type of engineer and backend and we’re very right intensive App with all the Diggs obviously.

Leo Laporte Right.

Kevin Rose So finally, we’re on a new backend and so when I came in back into the company here a few – couple of months ago, my whole thing was let’s prepare this down to just three to five awesome features that we’ve been wanted it for a long time and get the release out there to do something really simple. And so what you’re going to see is basically us fixing a lot of the problems. So, it’s super fast, when you Digg something, your friends and followers actually see it. That was a big thing for a long time. People would come in, they Digg stories but no one would actually see those Diggs.

Leo Laporte Right.

Kevin Rose So the new default view is what’s called mynews. In mynews, it’s essentially a way for you to see what you’re seeing right here is all stories that have been touched by my friends. So the first story here has been dug by my friend, Daniel Burka. [ph] So I says (06:08) dburka right there. The story underneath here has two friends at a [indiscernible] (06:12), so you see little number two there and as my friends at Digg staff, it just appears right here and this fee for them. If they Digg, it goes out to their followers. So, it’s a really efficient way of spreading links, link sharing essentially on the Digg platform and then if you look on the upper right hand corner here you’ll see this is the hottest news as determined by my friend. So…

Leo Laporte That is the biggest and I think that’s why I’m wearing this t-shirt, the most important change you’ve made because the thing to me about Digg that always made a little less useful as it wasn’t, people I cared about, it was everybody, it was universe. That’s what determined [ph] why their story was dugged (06:46).

Kevin Rose Right, right exactly.

Leo Laporte And what I really would like to do is, is use a Twitter style situation where I get to choose who I care about, let them [indiscernible] (06:54) my news for me. That’s what so powerful about Twitter.

Kevin Rose Right, exactly. So you…

Leo Laporte So this is the model. Is that what we’re doing now?

Kevin Rose Absolutely, so you’re picking. So I’ll show you like – when you log in for the first time this is what you’re going to see – something just like this. We’ll see a bunch of suggested users to you, you’re on here, [indiscernible] (07:11) you can follow Leo.

Leo Laporte I’m following you, I’m following Engadget of course nothing to post. You know what these are good suggested users, Time, Trent Reznor. These are some of your friends too which is cool.

Kevin Rose Some friends on there.

Leo Laporte And [ph] life hacker (07:23), of course.

Kevin Rose [indiscernible] (07:25) is a hilarious comic. You got to check it out and follow it, it’s pretty awesome.

Leo Laporte [indiscernible] (07:27)

Kevin Rose And then you can go on the left hand side. You can see – here is a little different categories so if you just want to follow business sources you can click on business over here…..

Leo Laporte Oh, so you have effectively like Twitter lists.

Kevin Rose Yeah, so – it [indiscernible] (07:38) filter and find the source that you want to follow. But the cool thing is as a publisher so like for example with your profile, Leo, I think what we did, let me go to – we’ve changed, we now have [indiscernible] (07:48) your username is name…

Leo Laporte Oh, oh.

Kevin Rose In this case…

Leo Laporte Wait a minute. Aaron, Aaron – an error occurred at 79.7% like this is Aaron’s fault.

Kevin Rose Is that Aaron’s fault and…

Leo Laporte That’s what I linked to my site. Can we break it?

Kevin Rose No, no, it’s up I’m [indiscernible] (8:08)

Leo Laporte Okay there it is. Okay.

Kevin Rose So check out your profile.

Leo Laporte I’ll look, these are all our shows.

Kevin Rose Yes, on the right hand side what we’re doing now is that publishers for the longest time and said that we have [indiscernible] (08:17) content but we have to go and manually submit all these stories, right?

Leo Laporte Right.

Kevin Rose So you can link up your RSS feeds for it and claim your feeds that you own and so we’ve linked up here your Google buzz feed and your feed and so every time a podcast comes out, it automatically submits the Digg with a single Digg.

Owen JJ Stone That’s awesome.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Kevin Rose So no more submission and it’ll go out to all of your followers instantly and then if they Digg it, it goes up to their friends and so on. So, a – just a lot of stuff that we should have done a couple of years ago.

Leo Laporte Can we add comments like you could before.

Kevin Rose Yeah.

Leo Laporte When I Digg something it’s the same – same process of digging something, yes?

Kevin Rose Right, same process. It’s a lot faster I mean [indiscernible] (08:52)

Leo Laporte So with all the Digg, bookmarks and all the other stuff that we’re just – are still the work the same.

Kevin Rose Yes, they are going to once we put over the API which is, what we’re still, that’s why we haven’t [indiscernible] (09:04) yet. That’s where we’re still working on.

Leo Laporte We should tell everybody. You’re getting special access, right?

Kevin Rose This is early, this is alpha. There’s bugs…

Leo Laporte Yeah, yeah.

Kevin Rose There’s going to be bugs.

Leo Laporte Now, after an hour and a half are they not going to be getting here anymore or just …

Kevin Rose Yeah, just for the hour and a half – just because we’re trying to keep it.

Leo Laporte [indiscernible] (09:21) from going crazy.

Kevin Rose Yeah, we still need to test out some stuff, but we’ll open this up probably about, say in another month or so. Well, actually…

Leo Laporte What takes so long in stuff like this? Where’s the, where’s the effort?

Kevin Rose I mean the backend is all Cassandra which is one of those no sequel solutions and we’ve got a few other sources [indiscernible] (09:38) database…

Leo Laporte But it’s not my SQL….

Kevin Rose Right.

Leo Laporte And it’s flat. Is it – what file is it?

Kevin Rose It’s just weird that you guys don’t know…

Leo Laporte So the queries and all the stuff.

Kevin Rose Yeah, it’s just a different way of storing data and we have it now in multiple – multi-data centers like we have the East Coast and West Coast that we’re serving out of and so there’s a lot of ….

Leo Laporte [indiscernible] (09:58) to do, yeah.

Kevin Rose There’s a lot of really weird little bugs that we’re just trying to work out.

Leo Laporte Right.

Kevin Rose So, it’s a complete refractory. And we have to port all of our old data over. So that’s a lot of work as well.

Leo Laporte So, we actually should say when you say you guys, we have some other people in studio I dragged over here from Foo Camp. Let me see I can figure out where there camera is? There you go. Tim Shey is here. He’s from which is a great, kind of TWiT like network, really of aggregated – how many shows you have?

Tim Shey I think there’s like 81 channels now or something like that.

Leo Laporte Wow! Huge, and sitting to his left is the evil genius from the developer of Boing Boing, Dean Putney. Hey, Dean, good to see you. He is the junior at CMU.

Dean Putney Yeah, I just finished my junior here.

Leo Laporte Rising senior.

Dean Putney Yeah.

Leo Laporte And also was at – where else were you at?

Dean Putney Institute for the Future, MAKE Magazine.

Leo Laporte Cool, cool. Are you a maker or you are a web guy?

Dean Putney I am a web guy.

Leo Laporte Yeah. So do you – when Kevin says Cassandra [indiscernible] (10:54) does this ring a bell?

Dean Putney Yeah, yeah, I am familiar with that stuff. I did a project at Carnegie Mellon using Mongo, so…

Leo Laporte So these are – are these servers or they are databases?

Dean Putney Yeah, this is a database system.

Leo Laporte We did a thing on Mongo on FLOSS Weekly. That’s another NoSQL, NoSQL, yeah, yeah, I remember that.

Dean Putney These are few competing projects right now.

Leo Laporte Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well there was even a session at Foo on NoSQL.

Dean Putney Yeah. It’s a hot topic now.

Leo Laporte Why? What’s wrong with MySQL? Owen, wake up.

Dean Putney It’s not really that things go wrong with it so much.

Owen JJ Stone I’m in the chat room. I am good. I am still with the people.

Leo Laporte I thought you were sleeping, dude.

Dean Putney I think he likes that chair a little too much.

Owen JJ Stone You guys talk all nerdy for five minutes, not [indiscernible] (11:33). I’m just trying to Digg stuff right now.

Leo Laporte Owen are you on Digg, are you on Digg 4, Diggingit?

Owen JJ Stone Digg me, follow.

Leo Laporte You are O-h-d-o-c-t-a-h?

Owen JJ Stone That’s right. I am alive. Don’t worry.

Leo Laporte So why do they hate – why do they hate MySQL so much?

Dean Putney I think a lot of it has to do with relationships in the database and how you connect different types of data to each other so, I mean, example your Diggs and users so I imagine that it makes it really easy for you to get all the Diggs for a particular user in the NoSQL database.

Leo Laporte A lot of joins with MySQL and that’s really heavy on the database, so …..

Dean Putney In the NoSQL system you can just collect – it will – is Cassandra using better documents or ….

Kevin Rose I do not know.

Dean Putney Okay. Well, I imagine it does.

Kevin Rose There are much people – people smarter than me were…

Leo Laporte Aaron knows that one.

Dean Putney Yeah, Aaron knows that one. Aaron actually does know that one, and then Chris. But, yeah, in Mongo when you get a user, all of the Diggs would come with it basically. So, easy to access that.

Leo Laporte Right. This was kind of the problem that Twitter had when it was trying to scale.

Dean Putney Actually Twitter engineers are working very closely with Digg engineers on this because they also have a cluster of Cassandra servers that they are…

Leo Laporte Right.

Dean Putney …working on as well.

Leo Laporte This – you told me this. And I thought this is really cool that there’s this collaborative thing going on. You said that the Twitter guys will come over to you [Indiscernible] (12:55) our guys and Facebook guys and everybody is talking about how do you solve this, how do you do that, how do you scale?

Dean Putney And it’s all open source too. It’s an Apache project.

Leo Laporte It’s so awesome. It’s interesting that there’s this collaboration going on among erstwhile competitors in Silicon Valley, everybody is helping each other out.

Dean Putney Yeah.

Leo Laporte I think it’s really cool.

Dean Putney It’s pretty awesome.

Leo Laporte Yeah, it’s really amazing. So let’s see more of Digg 4, Kevin Rose showing us for the first time ever. If you want to – if you just joined us and you want to take a look, just from now till the end of the show…

Kevin Rose 4:30.

Leo Laporte

Kevin Rose New.

Dean Putney New.

Leo Laporte I’m sorry,

Kevin Rose And then click on Request an Invite, put in your Digg user name and password and we’ll let you right in.

Leo Laporte All right.

Kevin Rose So, yes. So basically, we are also doing things like if you leave a comment, your friends instantly see it. So there is no more having to go into a story. So…

Leo Laporte This could be Twitter, right?

Kevin Rose It’s basically – the thing about Twitter – the funny thing is that people – I have been asked by the press a couple of times like how does this compare to Twitter, how is it compare to Facebook? And the way that I look at it is that on Facebook, when you like something, when you click the like button, like it goes into that algorithm that they have and they look at all your different touch points with all the different users that you know, and then they determine like, does it have enough power to put it at the top of your news feed, right?

Leo Laporte Right.

Kevin Rose So there’s no guarantee that your friends are actually going to see it.

Leo Laporte Right.

Kevin Rose Twitter obviously opposite to that, completely open, extremely easy to follow taste-makers. You get a little bit of everything including the stuff that you don’t want. So like, you can follow Tony Hawk, but you’re also going to get the fact that Tony Hawk tweets about dropping his kids off at the park. But all you really want are his videos, his links, right.

Leo Laporte I want his things, all I want is his damn links and you’re absolutely right in fact [indiscernible] (14:35) that’s what’s valuable about Twitter at least for a certain – I guess you’re right. Sometimes I want to know what he’s doing.

Kevin Rose Right, exactly.

Leo Laporte Sometimes – but mostly what I really want is his links. So this is cool because you can map it to your Twitter graph.

Kevin Rose You can. And so this basically just allows you to be a taste-maker in news. Digg’s always been about news and so we’re always about the links. We just want to make it as efficient as possible for you to Digg and syndicate and spread content to the people you care about. So you can go and you can follow your friends, you can follow the taste-makers, you can follow the sources that you like and then all of that will come directly into MyNews.

Leo Laporte [Indiscernible] (15:06).

Owen JJ Stone And everybody wants to compare everything to Twitter, I mean, really…

Leo Laporte I know, that’s not fair, Is it?

Owen JJ Stone …I ask how’s this better than reddit right now or something like that?

Leo Laporte Right.

Owen JJ Stone A service that’s trying to go out to your throat like that’s when I cam out…

Leo Laporte Right.

Owen JJ Stone What the difference is?

Leo Laporte Because that’s the most direct [indiscernible] (15:18).

Owen JJ Stone The Twitter and the Facebook is like a smoke screen of a question because it’s really, it’s not the same thing.

Leo Laporte This is very different than reddit, don’t you think Ohdoctah?

Owen JJ Stone Definitely, especially right now the way this is – I really like the way this is setup right now.

Leo Laporte I think there’s going to be so much more useful.

Owen JJ Stone The biggest thing for me is the RSS feed out too, because I am one of the guys, I do my own show. So I may at least be the first submitting person all the time.

Leo Laporte Right.

Owen JJ Stone So I always feel like it’s cheating, but you got to do it because it gets the ball rolling and it’s just a habit. But now I don’t have to worry about that anymore, so that makes me happy.

Leo Laporte Top news from people I follow, new iPhone arrives, this drummer is at the wrong gig.

Kevin Rose That’s the funniest video ever. Have you seen that?

Leo Laporte [Indiscernible] right now, see this is going to be awesome.

Kevin Rose So if you Digg that story, it instantly goes out to all of your followers and look it at the top of their MyNews.

Leo Laporte Yeah. And so stuff can do viral so fast.

Kevin Rose Yeah.

Leo Laporte That’s pretty powerful.

Kevin Rose You’ve got to watch that drummer video. It is epic. The guy looks like – have you seen it?

Owen JJ Stone Yeah. Oh no it’s fantastic.

Leo Laporte This drummer is at the wrong gig.

Owen JJ Stone So into it too.

[video clip] (16:22)

Kevin Rose [ph] You got to fast forward like I would say [indiscernible] (16:28). So this is at like some county fair, right? And these guys are just like cover band….

[video clip] (16:38)

Kevin Rose Yeah, all of a sudden they do realize – they realize how awesome he is and then they just started like zooming in on him once he starts going crazy.

Leo Laporte He’s like too good?

Kevin Rose Yeah. He’s just way too good.

Leo Laporte I like his…

Owen JJ Stone He is a showman.

Leo Laporte …his arm wear.

[video clip] (16:50)

Kevin Rose [indiscernible] (16:53). He’s just kind of go and chill right now.

[video clip] (17:01)

Leo Laporte Oh man!

Kevin Rose It’s a little choppy. You’ve got to watch………

Leo Laporte Yeah it’s choppy online because you’ve got a good computer.

[video clip] (17:09)

Leo Laporte He is like much more interesting to the band.

Kevin Rose The camera guy is like look at the – and he keeps rolling his sticks like down his sleeves and catching him and twirling them and everything.

Owen JJ Stone Have you seen the next song after this [indiscernible] (17:26).

Kevin Rose No.

Owen JJ Stone The lead singer comes behind and starts like grabbing the sticks with him and drumming with him. So they totally know he is like a star.

Kevin Rose It is awesome.

Owen JJ Stone They are jumping with him. It is awesome.

Kevin Rose It has like four million views of that video.

Leo Laporte It does. It has four million – 4.7 million views and now I’m going to get – you know, every time I do this I get a – you could tell me, you can just slide that lens just a little bit to the left. I don’t know if Kevin moved or the camera moved. Nice, this is how – this is what a professional operation we have here. The guests become the camera operators.

Owen JJ Stone I’m on sandwich duty in 25 minutes.

Leo Laporte What? Oh yeah, you got to get sandwiches for the gang.

Owen JJ Stone I’m on sandwich duty.

Leo Laporte So this is cool, so I would – never would have seen that video but that’s not so different from other sources. The key is that you are going to give me stuff that’s super relevant now because I’m following people that I care about and not people that I don’t care about.

Kevin Rose That was the problem for us. I think that when you look at the Digg front page people like my mom that would come to the site and say like this site isn’t for me…

Leo Laporte Right.

Kevin Rose …because it was a combination of political news, cats jumping off of diving boards…

Leo Laporte Right.

Kevin Rose …like all those random stuff and in this case she goes in she follows Oprah, she follows a few other accounts that she really cares about and then it’s custom news for her.

Leo Laporte Right. This is the future of, in my opinion this is the future of all of the stuff is curation by your friends.

Kevin Rose I think that what we are working on next and some of the bigger stuff, I think this is a lot like the low hanging fruits [indiscernible] (18:54) wanted for a long time. The bigger stuff that was how we can figure out user reputation and so that when you Digg stuff, you are building a reputation for yourself around different topics.

Leo Laporte Right.

Kevin Rose So kind of a [ph] chorus (19:04) style, when you go in and you try to build a reputation around different subjects, we want to find the same type of users who are the taste makers and Audi cars or [ph] Tee (19:14) or different topics and how can we build a reputation around that. So that’s going to be releases later but that’s kind of the bigger picture stuff that we are working on after we get this launch out.

Owen JJ Stone So when people like you Digg something like 23 people can go write a blog post about it because you found it credible.

Kevin Rose Well, and how many people Digg after you so if like to Digg something and it blows up then your – you’ve just earned a little bit of credit as a taste maker under that particular topic because you were really one of the first influencers to find that piece of content.

Owen JJ Stone Exactly.

Leo Laporte I always try to do that, and I’m never the first, never. I’m a follower, not a leader.

Owen JJ Stone It’s good to piggyback Uncle Leo.

Leo Laporte I do.

Owen JJ Stone Yeah, I’m just hoping you push all my content and then you make me look better.

Leo Laporte That’s right. Yes, but that’s the neat thing is that it’s okay, right?

Kevin Rose Yes.

Leo Laporte You don’t mind if I re-tweet you or I Digg you?

Owen JJ Stone Especially when it is your friend, because I’m going to follow you and…

Leo Laporte Right, we have a social contract.

Owen JJ Stone …because you find [indiscernible] (20:00), so yeah.

Leo Laporte Kevin Rose is here. Owen Stone is here. Also joining us Dean Putney, from Carnegie Mellon University, he’s a developer at Boing Boing and I dragged him here from Foo Camp, actually Tim Shey did, he is with the Next New Networks. We are going to take a little break; come back with more, Kevin Rose has two more big announcements.

Kevin Rose [Ph] Oh my (20:20).

Leo Laporte One you are not anxious to do, I know and one that you are excited about but it’s a rumor, that’s kind of a mind boggling rumor and that…

Kevin Rose You haven’t heard yet. You don’t know what I’m talking about or do you?

Leo Laporte I kind of know what you are talking, we’ll see, I might. I might know what you are talking about.

Kevin Rose Right.

Leo Laporte Does it have to do with Google?

Kevin Rose Maybe.

Leo Laporte Maybe. You know they were like all these Google people…

Kevin Rose Did they say – did you ask…

Leo Laporte Didn’t say bloody thing.

Kevin Rose Did you ask them…

Leo Laporte I didn’t because I didn’t know about it till I got here. So, I didn’t. Did you – did either of you guys know about this new Google thing? No, no. They are looking blank at me.

Owen JJ Stone Yes, we are completely oblivious.

Leo Laporte Oh, good, this is good. Yes, see this is one problem being a Foo Camp, you are completely out of touch.

Tim Shey Kind of always – kind of always feel like there is something else going on in the next room that’s…

Leo Laporte Right.

Tim Shey That’s even better.

Kevin Rose Yes, that’s the problem with Foo, like you are sitting there, like is this the best talk that I should be in right now.

Leo Laporte Oh, it’s hard…

Kevin Rose Yes.

Tim Shey Stupid all the time…

Leo Laporte Yes, so it’s the smartest people in the world are there and you are – I wanted to talk to Tim, every time I went close to Tim he’d turn away and talk to somebody else because I think he knew that I was coming, I was like, I always going like this, it’s very intense because I want to talk [ph] him into leading us (21:26) broadcasted and I know that’s antithetical to what Foo Camp is but they should.

Tim Shey You know what, we should start Leo Camp.

Leo Laporte And just broadcast it.

Tim Shey Why not?

Leo Laporte Just broadcast – because I think it’s cool to get to these great minds together, it’s uncool to hide the output.

Kevin Rose Right. Yes, just don’t do it at the same time, [ph] I honestly (21:42) don’t compete but we could do a really fun…

Leo Laporte Oh, I don’t compete with…

Kevin Rose I think camping is a great idea though. Camping is awesome.

Leo Laporte I did a tent, even though I’m half an hour away, I did a tent.

Kevin Rose It’s really cool.

Leo Laporte Yes, it’s really cool. Couple of problems, first of all, I have a four men tent, so there is everybody is in one man tent except me, I have like a skyscraper, I have a porch.

Owen JJ Stone Of course Uncle Leo has to have a [indiscernible] (22:02)…

Dean Putney That’s the party tent.

Leo Laporte Massive – I had a massive freaking tent, it was very embarrassing, and then second of all, it’s next to Scoble who by the way is in a one-man Google tent…

Kevin Rose And he is going to be talking all night long.

Leo Laporte Oh, he didn’t go to bed like till like 4 or 5.

Kevin Rose And then he talks in his sleep.

Leo Laporte And he – and he snores and he talks, and it’s like, oh God…

Owen JJ Stone You needed an insulated tent.

Leo Laporte So what I did is I just got up at 7:30 and made a lot of noise taking my tent down.

Kevin Rose Did you take a shower there?

Leo Laporte Yes, that was a little strange.

Kevin Rose Yes.

Leo Laporte It’s kind of communal, right. I didn’t take a shower yesterday and I really had to take one today. Fortunately I had this nice white “Digg was my idea” shirt. Very quickly I would love to talk a little bit about our friends at Squarespace, I know you know them very well, Kevin Rose

Kevin Rose Yes.

Leo Laporte Because that’s your blog. Do you know Anthony and Dane?

Kevin Rose I do, yes, absolutely.

Leo Laporte Yes, I figured you would, because you are…

Kevin Rose Anthony is a brilliant guy…

Leo Laporte Yes.

Kevin Rose He is so smart [ph] sincerely (22:54). They are both smart guys.

Leo Laporte I think what they are doing is great. Squarespace is the place to – [ph] where (22:57) exceptional websites begin; we are starting to put some of our stuff on there, we’ve got the Inside TWiT blog there and I’m going to move The Tech Guy blog over to Squarespace because it’s just so easy to set up a great looking site with a couple of clicks of the butt mouse and then, but then you get complete customization control to the point where you can drag and drop [ph] widths (23:14) of everything, I mean it’s just incredible you get great stats, the iPhone app is killer; it’s just got all the features you are looking for; it is hosting plus – hosting plus the software, and by the way it is easy to import your WordPress, your blog or your Movable Type or your TypePad blog right in and they are big believers in round tripping, so you are never stuck; you can export it right out too if you decide you want to go somewhere else, you are never stuck.

Built-in search engine optimization, permission access handling, means you can have multiple editors and it’s in the cloud, and you know they are using a VPS, virtual server technology that allows them to add, its’ king of – you know, the state of the art allows them to add bandwidth as needed so your site does not ever go down. So if you get dug in the new Digg 4…

Kevin Rose I can attest to that. I’ve had my site on…

Leo Laporte You get dug all the time.

Kevin Rose I’ve had a couple of home page stories and they’ve been able to handle them. No problem.

Leo Laporte Yes. I want you to take a look at it., if you go there right now you could try it free for 15 days and if you like, 10% off for the life of your new sites, all you have to do is use the word TWIT at checkout. TWIT, So Kevin, I’m going to give you some time and space to compose yourself, and bring us the news. What’s the news Kevin Rose?

Kevin Rose So I wasn’t going to talk about this actually, and then I realized it’s being picked up on a bunch of different blogs and sites out there.

Leo Laporte It’s being leaked out there, yes.

Kevin Rose So it’s like it’s too late to keep it because I got a request to take down the tweet that I tweeted about it and I took down the tweet and now I’m…

Leo Laporte So you tweeted it?

Kevin Rose I tweeted it last night, I had a couple of glass of wine…

Leo Laporte So first of all, let’s say this, you had a great party last night which I couldn’t come to…

Dan Shapiro Friday night.

Leo Laporte Friday night. Revision3’s fifth year anniversary.

Kevin Rose Five years, crazy.

Leo Laporte Isn’t that great?

Kevin Rose It’s nuts.

Leo Laporte Yeah, congratulations on that.

Kevin Rose That was [ph] bum (25:07) you couldn’t make it.

Unknown Speaker There was comedy, there was magic…

Leo Laporte Shwood was there I know.

Unknown Speaker There was drama…

Leo Laporte Yeah, of great band, my daughter’s girlfriend’s – my boyfriend’s band or something.

Unknown Speaker They did a killer Michael Jackson cover, like their third set and it was awesome.

Leo Laporte Who, the Dizzy Balloons?

Unknown Speaker Yeah.

Leo Laporte Did you like them?

Unknown Speaker Yeah. They were like – it was anniversary of Michael Jackson’s death and they did a Michael Jackson song, and they covered it, and it was – they are awesome band.

Leo Laporte I thought they were really good. I asked her if she – if the are signed, she said well they are on iTunes.

Kevin Rose And that’s what signed is now…

Leo Laporte Her generation, no idea what that means. Yeah, they are on iTunes, what do you want? They have a record, yeah.

Kevin Rose They are making money.

Leo Laporte They are signed, I don’t know what that means.

Kevin Rose [Indiscernible] (25:45) by their money.

Leo Laporte Yeah. So, it went well, you had a special Diggnation with Alex and you did a lot of great things and then you got drunk and tweeted.

Kevin Rose No, that was – that was actually last night that I had wine and tweeted...

Leo Laporte It’s last night…

Kevin Rose The day after that

Leo Laporte Since you were sad.

Kevin Rose Yeah but I – so essentially what happened is I got leaked a rumor from a pretty credible source I believe…

Leo Laporte Oh, [ph] here we are (26:08) are talking about the other thing?

Kevin Rose Oh, do you want to talk about the other thing?

Leo Laporte The Google thing, yeah.

Kevin Rose Which one do you want to start, you want to start the Google one?

Leo Laporte Do the Google thing.

Kevin Rose [Indiscernible] do (26:14) the Google one, okay. So essentially…

Leo Laporte You had to take that tweet down?

Kevin Rose Yeah, I had to take the tweet down.

Leo Laporte Who – who called you?

Kevin Rose Let’s just say…

Leo Laporte Eric Schmidt says hello Kevin, you have been tweeting again? We follow your Tweeter account.

Kevin Rose So, yeah basically the rumor was that Google is launching a Facebook competitor soon.

Leo Laporte Yes, I am so happy!

Kevin Rose And then it’s going to be called…

Leo Laporte You mean it’s not Orkut?

Kevin Rose It’s going to be called Google Me.

Leo Laporte Google Me, I like it, [ph] it’s advanced (26:45).

Kevin Rose And I have heard it’s pretty awesome is what the rumor is, and this is a very credible source. So we will see, Facebook competitor.

Leo Laporte Dean’s going hmmm, sound surprised – no, you are surprised.

Dean Putney Well it sounds interesting.

Leo Laporte Sounds great.

Dean Putney Especially after Buzz thing with trying to take over Twitter then.

Leo Laporte Well, and there is an opportunity here because I think there’s – I am not the only one who is a little bit skittish and fed up about Facebook but I do trust Google.

Unknown Speaker Oh, Google had its [ph] own (27:11) privacy problem too with their Buzz, so I mean, come on.

Kevin Rose Yeah, the problem I had with Google though is the usability thing, like their products – outside of Gmail, I can’t point to really one product where I am just like wow this is a killer user experience …

Leo Laporte I thought I would go to Orkut, right, because that was their Facebook.

Kevin Rose Right.

Leo Laporte [Ph] It’s not usable (27:27), it’s terrible.

Unknown Speaker Yeah, it has no feeling behind it whatsoever. Everything is like…

Leo Laporte It’s like Google.

Unknown Speaker …made for machine.

Leo Laporte I am on Orkut and so are my friends please…

Unknown Speaker I am soft and cuddly, I need something squishy.

Leo Laporte …tell me how are you, what are you up to today? You can make me different colors. However, here is why Google does not scare me on. Their business model is in alignment with my interests as opposed to Facebook. So Facebook’s business – in my opinion Facebook’s business model is all about the more they can reveal about me the more the better, right. Google’s business model is the more you use the web, the more we make. So in my opinion Google’s model is speed up the web, make the web more usable, make the web better, make it friendlier, give us great tools, give us YouTube, all this stuff, because the more we use it, the more they make, right?

Kevin Rose I respect that answer.

Leo Laporte Does that make sense?

Kevin Rose Yes.

Leo Laporte Whereas Facebook – that’s not – Facebook’s deal is make everything Facebook. The like button is about drawing you into Facebook, it’s not about promoting the web, it’s about drawing you in the Facebook.

Unknown Speaker So in 10 years you are going to be the first person lined up to get Google socks and Google deodorant, because they are going to take over the world.

Leo Laporte Well, if they take over the world then we will talk.

Unknown Speaker Okay.

Leo Laporte I am not saying I love them forever.

Unknown Speaker Okay.

Leo Laporte I am not marrying them.

Unknown Speaker They are just slowly infiltrating every orifice of your life [indiscernible] (28:45).

Leo Laporte I like to see some competition but I think that one of the reasons you can’t leave Facebook right now, one of the reasons it was painful for me to leave Facebook is because I am disconnecting and there’s nowhere else I can [indiscernible] (28:53).

Unknown Speaker Yeah, that’s what – you had MySpace and then Facebook came and you could leave MySpace for Facebook.

Leo Laporte You could leave MySpace.

Unknown Speaker So there is nowhere for us to leave too. So you have a very valid point there, but again it has to look good, it has to feel good for me to use it.

Unknown Speaker Yeah, same here.

Unknown Speaker For the regular person to use it, I don’t care that Google did it. It doesn’t matter. I mean we aren’t here, we aren’t – I am not a nerd, you guys are smarter than me, but for you guys maybe you will try but for the masses Google has to finally break down and say I need a supermodel, I need somebody that looks good and feels good and I want to take home to my mom and impress everybody.

Leo Laporte Can they do that Kevin?

Kevin Rose It’s hard for people to make the jump at this point because I mean they – the news feed is very addicting, I mean you go there everyday see what your friends are up to. All your friends are already there, your family is there, I mean I have aunts and uncles and brothers and sisters, how am I going to get my aunt to change to Google Me? It’s like she is not going to. So…

Unknown Speaker Give yourself a little bit more power than that [ph] Mr. I Tweet Stuff to Shake Up the World (29:47).

Kevin Rose No, here is the deal, do I want to call my aunt up and teach her how to make the change, and the answer is no.

Leo Laporte Right.

Unknown Speaker Especially if Google doesn’t make it appealing.

Kevin Rose Right.

Unknown Speaker Because then it’s even harder – it’s even more hard job for you.

Kevin Rose Right. I am not going to use it unless it’s [indiscernible] (30:00).

Leo Laporte So, what does Google have to do to make Google Me compete with Facebook? Doesn’t have to beat – I am not saying beat Facebook, I am saying be competitive.

Kevin Rose In my mind it’s going to have to be like a Bing like experience and that it has to be beautiful, it has to have some features and functionality that are above and beyond what Facebook can do. It can’t just be a clone, I think that so many clones fail just because they are copying feature for feature. There has been thousands of Digg clones over the years. And the ones that scare me the most are the ones that aren’t copying us but actually innovating in different ways, right. And…

Leo Laporte Reddit doesn’t scare you as much as somebody who doing something different?

Kevin Rose Right, exactly, like a different take on what you are doing.

Leo Laporte Right.

Kevin Rose So, I am curious to see what it is but it’s sad they lost their – who was it Doug Bowman, that was their main creative director for a long time.

Leo Laporte He went to Facebook.

Kevin Rose He went to Twitter.

Leo Laporte Oh I am sorry Twitter.

Kevin Rose Yes, and so he is brilliant. That guy was one of the best designers and he just got fed up because he said they want to test 54 shades of blue with an algorithm.

Leo Laporte A very famous blog post about why design [indiscernible] (31:06) Google?

Kevin Rose Right. And so I just don’t have the faith. I mean…

Owen JJ Stone Google Wave what, amazing; Google Buzz what, double amazing.

Leo Laporte I like Buzz, you don’t like Buzz, I like Buzz. I am still – I am a Buzzer.

Kevin Rose You are like their – you are their like Scoble and six of his followers.

Leo Laporte I am their poster boy.

Owen JJ Stone I mean there is only a few of you, that’s what I am talking about, you need something for regular people and Google just doesn’t get that. They have the smartest people – if you go to a Google office, you will be amazed with the creativity and beautifiacity of everything that they do and the colors and the toys…

Kevin Rose Beautifiacity.

Kevin Rose Yes, but if you go look at their products it’s like look dude like a three year old coder could have made something that look better than this, and they just don’t…

Kevin Rose You have a three year old too. You should get her do of the designs.

Kevin Rose Google hired me and my daughter, and we make everything beautifiacity and hire me, I’d do that. I will sit in this chair and make stuff look good like I do for myself.

Leo Laporte Well, I can say right now, I mean I really did disconnect myself from my family and my – not my close friends, my close friends of course are my friends, I talk to them, I have a relationship with them, it’s the second to your friends.

Kevin Rose Right.

Leo Laporte It’s like my first girlfriend in high school, there is no way she can poke me anymore, right?

Kevin Rose Right.

Leo Laporte She is not so bad. But Kathy I love you, but stop poking me. But those second to your friends that would have been in touch with without Facebook and Facebook gives you a way to loosely engage with them. It’s not – you don’t have to email and recall them, you just kind of know what they are doing, you see their pictures and stuff…

Kevin Rose Yes, see the random birthdays and things like that.

Leo Laporte And so you feel like you are connected. And that was the only pain of withdrawing from Facebook for me. It wasn’t a business issue, because we have a lot of presence on the web, we don’t need Facebook for that.

Kevin Rose Yes. Did your family – do you still have a fan page though? Do you have a twit fan page?

Leo Laporte No, I killed them all, because it was tied to my account, so if I kill my account it’s all gone. It’s all gone, that’s okay. I don’t think that for my business, I don’t think our audience; it’s like being on AOL. I don’t they want us – I don’t think they care.

Kevin Rose The only thing I – I mean did you consider just stop using them like leave them be…

Leo Laporte I did.

Kevin Rose But don’t use them, because that way in case they ever correct their ways then…

Leo Laporte No, I had this conversation, and apologize to those who have heard this before, but I had this conversation with myself, can I just stay here, I know how to use Facebook, can I just stay here, I know how to be private on Facebook, they are not invading my – I know what I am doing, but by being there it’s coercing other people including family and friends to be part of Facebook. I am part of the problem if I am on it.

Kevin Rose Are your kids still on?

Leo Laporte Yes.

Kevin Rose They are still on.

Leo Laporte That was when it really hit me, it’s like I tried to explain to them why it’s dangerous I said, don’t put anything on Facebook that you wouldn’t put – that you wouldn’t want family, friends, future employers to see, teachers…

Kevin Rose Future employers is the big one.

Leo Laporte Yes. And they didn’t get that, they said no it’s private. And I said nah, yes, well.

Owen JJ Stone And that’s the thing about the Internet, once you step foot on the Internet, privacy is not the problem or the issue, it’s about control. Because you should, anything you put on there you notice somebody has access to; we talk about this earlier, using better…

Leo Laporte It’s all about control.

Owen JJ Stone Someone can get a hold of your information at any moment, as soon as you are on the Internet; you are putting yourself out there to be exposed. So watch what you do.

Leo Laporte Yes. Right.

Owen JJ Stone Your mother told you that when you were two years old.

Leo Laporte Right.

Owen JJ Stone Wear clean underwear, in case you get hit by a bus, I mean…

Leo Laporte It’s pretty straightforward, isn’t it? But kids don’t get it.

Owen JJ Stone Yes, but we don’t do that and they don’t. They get a cell phone and they take a picture of yourselves at parties, drunk and then leave it up there, and then somebody searches on Google Me, 20 years later and it still pops up.

Leo Laporte Dean, you are still in college, Dean?

Dean Putney Yes, that’s right.

Leo Laporte Everybody is in Facebook.

Dean Putney Yes.

Leo Laporte Seeing you, I mean these are bunch of geeks.

Dean Putney Yes.

Leo Laporte So on Facebook?

Dean Putney Well yes, unfortunately.

Leo Laporte There is no – is there any backlash at all?

Dean Putney Well, there are a lot of people who are unhappy about things.

Leo Laporte But they don’t leave.

Dean Putney Well, where else can you go?

Leo Laporte You know why because Facebook’s how you score, isn’t it? It’s how you meet girls. I think really seriously.

Dean Putney It is, it is really like…

Leo Laporte That’s the real point of Facebook for college age kids anyway.

Dean Putney There have been so many situations where all you needed is my name.

Leo Laporte Right.

Dean Putney It’s literally my address book on the Internet and that’s fantastic. You meet somebody at a party; you catch half a name…

Leo Laporte Say I am on Facebook.

Dean Putney Yes, or they even like you see a cute girl and you don’t really…

Kevin Rose Stalk her later.

Dean Putney Yes, but you know her friends or something…

Leo Laporte By the way this is exactly why Mark Zuckerberg designed Facebook, you know that, you are friends with Mark; this is exactly what the point was.

Kevin Rose Well, it started off at college.

Leo Laporte How to meet girls.

Dean Putney Yes.

Leo Laporte How to meet girls.

Dean Putney It was a big college thing.

Leo Laporte How to fall – or how girls can meet guys. What's wrong – I’m not saying there is anything wrong with it. If Google did a credible alternative, you wouldn’t go there because they wouldn’t all be there. It’s got to be there where everybody is, right?

Dean Putney It’s the tipping point that has to happen and that’s going to be pretty difficult.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Owen JJ Stone And if they make something that looks good, people will try it. And that’s the biggest thing like Google Buzz. I couldn’t get away from it the first week, after a week it just died out. So…

Leo Laporte Dan Shapiro was here. He said, here is his claim to fame, I beat him at Werewolf. Let’s squeeze Dan in somewhere. Owen, can you share that chair?

Owen JJ Stone I can share that chair by [indiscernible] (35:46)

Leo Laporte Share the chair baby. Hey Dan, have a seat. Do you know Kevin Rose, Dan?

Kevin Rose Hey, how is it going?

Leo Laporte Kevin Rose, Dan, the serial entrepreneur. Also four, we are going to make Owen leave. We are going to continue on. Actually while we are doing that, go ahead, get in there, I want – Kevin has one more announcement to make. One more announcement from Kevin, and we are going to do that in a second. But first – but first – Owen is not gone, he is just – he is just – if you have anything to say, come stand behind me and say it. Just come on – literally, just come on over. Just listen and come in here and he’ll be in the chat-room too.

I want to mention iStockphoto, great – a great place. If you are blogger, you do content of any kind and you need images, look at a blog post with tags that’s not as good as a blog post with a picture, it’s just simple, it’s just simple. But sometimes you don’t have that right picture, don’t steal the picture, you can go to - is it twitstock, I think it is, that’s strange, /twitstock and try out iStockphoto.

This is the original source for high-quality stock images and now its media and design elements too royalty free, you pay them a simple fee and you get to use it forever, illustrations, vector images, videos, this is cool for podcasters, music and sound effects. They’ve got Flash files, 3D renders and logos coming soon.

Get creative, say what you want to say and don’t – you know, I’m not a designer but – but iStockphoto makes my blog look much better. And image is as low as $1, as low as $1. I want you try it out. You can get – give 15% off bundles of – see what you do is you buy credits that let you buy images or music or whatever. If you are buying – and you buy them in bundles; 15% if you buy bundles of 50 credits or more, 15% off if you buy 50 credits or more; iStockphoto/twitstock.

They’ve also got a Microsoft Office plug-in, which makes it much easier to embed stuff in your presentations and your documents. And coming soon, the iStockphoto iPhone app, not sure how you’d use that. I’m going to tweet and have stock images in my tweet, here is the chick I met last night, she is beautiful. I don’t know what I’ll use that for.

I did tweet a few images from Foo Camp including the Death Star made out of a watermelon. That was truly awesome. Wasn’t it? That was an amazing…

Dan Shapiro If anybody is doing in the United Foo Camp or otherwise…

Leo Laporte Yes.

Dan Shapiro There is no better way to [indiscernible] (38:28) on iStockphoto.

Leo Laporte You know about it?

Dan Shapiro Oh, use it all the time.

Leo Laporte For decks, I didn’t even think of that, you bet. You bet. Dan, give me – give me a lower third – you are on or…?

Dan Shapiro That’s easy.

Leo Laporte Easy to remember. So you missed our conversation on Digg 4. But I’m very excited about that. You missed our conversation, maybe you have something to say before we move on to the next story about Kevin’s scoop, you say you have it on good authority.

Kevin Rose Someone that is very closely connected to the project, yes. So whether it’ll see the light of day, I don’t know when, how...

Leo Laporte You know how we know it’s real? Because it make you – made you take it down.

Kevin Rose I took it down.

Leo Laporte If it were fake, that tweet would still be up there, you know that. They made you take it down.

Kevin Rose Yes.

Leo Laporte So he says it’s a Facebook – Dan, it’s a Facebook clone from Google called Google Me, a Facebook competitor.

Dan Shapiro Oh, I haven’t heard [indiscernible] (39:20).

Leo Laporte Yes, is that a story, is that juicy?

Dan Shapiro It’s got to be better than Buzz.

Leo Laporte Man, hopefully. Well that’s the – that’s the trick, isn’t it? Why does everybody mention Buzz when Google wants to say we are going to do something new? It’s – first it was Wave, and now it’s Buzz.

Tim Shey It’s unlike they are getting any credit for Android.

Leo Laporte Look at Android. Yes.

Tim Shey You know, and one of the things we are talking a lot about I think at Foo this weekend was that you know this idea of can things anticipate better your needs, you know, some of the guys were there from Doppler, [ph] the Sanford (39:50) and Nokia and we are talking about how well Doppler did some that. You know, Doppler…

Leo Laporte Doppler is Nokia now?

Tim Shey I believe so, right, weren’t they purchased by Nokia?

Leo Laporte [Indiscernible] (39:59).

Tim Shey I assume so because [indiscernible] (40:01), maybe I’m completely wrong.

Leo Laporte No, I think that sounds right. I think that sounds right.

Tim Shey But, you know, what I loved about Doppler was when you got in a city, it just said these are your friends that are in the city, and wouldn’t you like to send them all an email message right now. And there’s the beginnings of that in the new Froyo where I just installed it this weekend and I saw that my emails now, there’s a little avatar for my friend. If my friends – also my friend on Twitter posting their avatar, and when I click on it I can see their latest tweet and I can move over to Twitter and read tweet. They are starting to anticipate that I might want to respond in different ways than email. And I don’t understand if that’s really just a geeky thing with Android that we liked that or if that’s the beginning of a way that if they had something like, what you say was called, Google Me?

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Kevin Rose If they had something like that, maybe that scenario where they could outperform Facebook is if they just think about the way – a lot of the things we are also talking about was that as you start to have more and more friends and family, do you need to have concentric circles of friendship. Now it gets really complicated the work of – sort – you can do it on Facebook and you can sort people on a different list and share different things. But that’s a lot of work. And things like phones or the social network you log in everyday, it should know enough about just you respond to people at different times a day and there’s some people that you always respond to, some people you only respond to during business hours, can it be intelligent about that and anticipate your needs and help you sort people.

Leo Laporte Right.

Kevin Rose And so I’d love to see more features like that.

Dean Putney I want to see that applied to the inbox; that’s my need. I get too many emails and I want them sorted by like importance, and there is never a sort like [indiscernible] (41:30).

Leo Laporte Social graph is so powerful, it’s so powerful and nobody is doing anything really – not nobody, but there is real opportunity there.

Dean Putney Yeah, absolutely.

Leo Laporte And I know that’s what – I know that’s what Mark is all about; I know that’s what Facebook really wants to do. That’s why you have to – they have to expose your information, because until they can use your social graph, they can’t do all those exciting things that they want to do.

Dean Putney They want to use all that public data to expose that, yeah, like in aggregate.

Leo Laporte People think it’s about marketing, it isn’t about marketing, it’s about what they can do with the stuff, and frankly what they can do for you [ph] admittedly (42:00).

Dean Putney Yeah.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Dean Putney Absolutely.

Dan Shapiro If somebody can figure out how I can take the hundreds of people I…

Leo Laporte Dan you got – I’m going to have to ask you talk right into that microphone, it’s very sensitive micro – very insensitive microphone.

Dan Shapiro If somebody can figure out how to help me take the hundreds of people who I’m loosely connected to Twitter, Facebook, probably thousands all together and get the best of that conversation going on, so I’m not relying on the serendipity of a single person – happy to see this or logging in at the right time and bring that brilliance to the front. That’s what I want, that’s what I crave because there’s such great opportunities connected with interesting people. How do you find the best of the best today?

Kevin Rose Gee, it’s almost like Digg 4.

Dan Shapiro Yeah, you need Digg 4.

Leo Laporte You missed Digg 4, it’s exactly what Digg 4 is all about.

Kevin Rose I’m working on some of that stuff.

Dan Shapiro Brilliant.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I think that’s – I think Dan you will be very impressed with Digg 4 actually. So Kevin has one more announcement, we should say Kevin Rose is here from, Digg 4 and Diggnation; Dan Shapiro who is, would you call – you’re an investment banker I guess, Dan…

Dan Shapiro Myself gainfully unemployed.

Leo Laporte Okay even better, he is not working for a living, serial entrepreneur, is that okay?

Dan Shapiro Fair enough.

Leo Laporte Is that fair?

Dan Shapiro Yes.

Leo Laporte Is it fair? So you can – you’re going to sit in that throne there, he is in our – throne…

Dan Shapiro You know, what…

Leo Laporte …and you can, you can say yes or no to all business ideas that come across the show today.

Dan Shapiro Oh! my favorite [indiscernible] (43:20).

Leo Laporte Fail, massive fail. Dean Rodney – Putney is also here, Rodney. Do you heard, Dean?

Dean Putney Right.

Leo Laporte Dean Rodney – Dean Putney is also here from Carnegie Mellon University, he is a developer of Boing Boing and it make Mustard Hamsters.

Dean Putney Yeah.

Leo Laporte This is Twitter, what is Mustard Hamsters?

Dean Putney That’s a long story.

Leo Laporte Okay, I don’t want to hear it. I really don’t want to hear it…

Dean Putney Yeah, but that will get you to everyone.

Leo Laporte Mustard Hamsters, that’s all you need it because you can Google that, nobody else has it.

Dean Putney Yeah, I own the domain and Twitter, Gmail, AIM…

Leo Laporte Just think about a Hamster that slathered with Gulden's Yellow Mustard …

Dan Shapiro That’s my favorite flavor of hamster.

Leo Laporte And then, yeah me too. And then you’ll think of Dean. Tim Shey is also here he is at Moth on Twitter, and and we’ve been talking about Digg 4 and everything and Diggnation and Diggnation’s fifth – Revision3’s Fifth Anniversary Party on Friday night. And when is your last Diggnation?

Tim Shey Yes, that’s something in a chat room has been going off about, I have been seeing all day.

Leo Laporte They knew exactly what you’re going to talk about.

Tim Shey Yes.

Leo Laporte It’s been rumor for a while so – but you have never confirmed it…

Tim Shey Right. So, basically I think that Alex and I got together several months ago and just decided that it’s been five years now and I think that we’re just kind of tired just traveling and we’re still going to continue to do the show through the end of the year…

Leo Laporte Oh! That’s a long time – oh good, all right.

Tim Shey Through December, a bunch more live shows…

Leo Laporte Good.

Tim Shey And then after that we’ll do live shows but only live shows and probably like once a quarter or something like that and I’m going to do another podcast.

Leo Laporte So you’re not leaving Diggnation, you just going to go…

Tim Shey We’re scaling back, it’s not going to be like a weekly show anymore, scaling back quite a bit but needs a lot of traveling, you know Alex lives in LA, I’m in San Francisco, it’s weekly show, it’s just – we wouldn’t want to do it over Skype or anything else.

Leo Laporte Right, and if – anybody has never been to a live Diggnation is, it is incredible you have to go.

Tim Shey Dude, you – crowd surfing was awesome…

Leo Laporte That’s the most fun I’ve ever had.

Tim Shey It might be my number one favorite…

Leo Laporte Oh! Thank you.

Tim Shey Part of Diggnation.

Leo Laporte It was the most fun I have ever had, I have to say it was so much fun, it was such an honor…

Tim Shey Look at your face, is…

Leo Laporte I was happy, wasn’t I?

Tim Shey Oh yeah.

Leo Laporte But also – other thing that made me happy is this – I mean, and I was saying this like – I’m backstage. This is a freaking podcast and there is 2,700 people out there screaming crazies like a rock show and it’s a podcast and so I find it really validating, I mean, that’s exciting the people get that excited about the podcast.

Tim Shey It’s exciting for all of us, it shows that finally we can get more viewership on our podcast from the Internet then we ever could when we were doing…

Leo Laporte Well, and we knew that when we were doing TechTV…

Tim Shey Yeah.

Leo Laporte And we knew that that power was there and that’s really great. So congratulations on a great success with Diggnation and it’s not over…

Tim Shey Dude, how about you? Remember when we forget the first show like you have this little tiny room…

Leo Laporte I was in that little room, you were sitting on the floor, I think.

Tim Shey Sitting on the floor, upstairs and now you have the whole place…

Leo Laporte A whole building, 10 employees and broke.

Tim Shey Awesome.

Leo Laporte That’s okay. It’s okay, it’s good, so there is other news in the world this week. I guess the biggest story of the week we’re kind of ignoring was this little thing, the iPhone 4.

Tim Shey Lucky.

Leo Laporte What you – you don’t have one?

Tim Shey I didn’t get one.

Leo Laporte What do you mean, you don’t have one?

Tim Shey You need to take my Apple family card away.

Leo Laporte You. You. So have you handled it?.

Tim Shey I have touched it. I don’t want to touch yours. I’m still obsessed.

Leo Laporte Anybody here, iPhone 4s?

Dean Putney I don’t have one but…

Leo Laporte Don’t have – are you an Android?

Dean Putney No, I’m on the 3G.

Leo Laporte 3G.

Dean Putney Yeah, I went to the Keynote for that, that was fun.

Leo Laporte It was fun. Yeah, yeah. Dan, you have an iPhone?

Dan Shapiro [Indiscernible] (47:03) one guy.

Leo Laporte So, okay, okay, and as am I – I’m liking my Nexus One, I really think the Android Operating System is great, in fact that’s what you were about to say Tim is that – is how good Android is.

Tim Shey Actually I ordered an iPhone 4 and it’s coming in – all week and especially since I’ve upgraded the Froyo – I’ve been Froyo. I’ve been like – I’m going to miss – there’s a bunch of things I’m going to miss on here and I’m not sure I want to give it up.

Leo Laporte Isn’t that funny? I have the same thought.

Tim Shey There’s this bifurcation starting to happen where we’re still in love with the hardware and a lot of things about Apple OS but iOS or …

Leo Laporte iOS 4.

Tim Shey But you know, and you’re just hoping that learning from it, but just – how – I mean I use Google Navigator to get here from – to drive down here from…

Leo Laporte Right. Turn by turn.

Tim Shey And it’s free.

Leo Laporte It’s free to me…

Tim Shey And…

Dan Shapiro It’s better than most dedicated GPS.

Tim Shey Yeah, and Google Sky and there’s all those things that are just really nice on here that haven’t made available on the Apple Store.

Dan Shapiro And you know there’s something you are touching on before which was the notion of devices responding to and being smarter about us – better or for worse, these are – this and the iPhone are both tri-quarters.

Tim Shey Yeah.

Dan Shapiro But that one is off all the time.

Tim Shey Yeah.

Dan Shapiro There’s no continued relay, there’s no networking, no turning to the cloud. This is the capability be on all the time, which is both delightful and terrifying…

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Dan Shapiro This can – this know – this can know where you are, this can know what you’re doing, this can report back for better or for worse.

Leo Laporte Well and that was one of the big stories this week was that – in the new iOS 4 terms of services, all 45 pages if you had the patience to read it on your iPhone, you would – two things you’d read, one is that you could opt that of iAds which is good news, simple click I think was [ph] (48:41) and you put a cookie on your browser on your phone or your iPad and you wouldn’t get iAds anymore, but the bigger story was Apple said we will be tracking you and Android is being doing this for some time, but that – it’s in the terms of service that your data has been collected, aggregated, it’s not being sold to anybody, it’s a trusted third-party or something like that…

Tim Shey Trusted.

Dan Shapiro Who trust them?

Tim Shey Who trust them?

Dean Putney The third-parties of the NSA.

Leo Laporte Yeah. But – you know, I was talking a little bit about – Facebook was I don’t know if I can talk about it, Facebook had a – I can’t probably – at Foo Camp they had an interesting technology that was designed – it was check-in technology kind of; and I said I don’t want Facebook to know where I am and somebody said, do you have an Android in your pocket? I said yeah. Do you have an iPhone on your pocket? Yeah, I said well some people know where you are. So it’s something we have to live with that we are – this is a homing device? Daniel Suarez was at Foo Camp who wrote my two favorite novels; Daemon and Freedom TM.

Dan Shapiro I chatted with him and I had no idea who is [indiscernible] (49:48) Daemon.

Leo Laporte Oh! He is like – just like – he’s like my personal hero and one of the – one of the central plot points of Daemon is that you got this you’re being tracked everywhere you go. So Daniel actually is very political and those books are really political and they are about all of this stuff written in science fiction – in a science fiction way.

So what do we think of the iPhone 4, any opinions, any thoughts? It’s beautiful.

Kevin Rose I played with some friends and I got it to the antenna thing and that kind of bugged me a little bit.

Leo Laporte Yeah, that’s easy. It’s easier.

Kevin Rose But then I also got my 3GS to do it as well.

Leo Laporte Well that’s the point. It’s all cell – okay, let’s talk about this real quickly. It turns out that if you look at the iPhone, it has – first of all kind of crazy to build a device that you drop frequently and have it – have glass on both sides. So [indiscernible] (50:37) glass on the front, glass on the back, they say it’s gorilla glass, it’s stronger than plastic, p.s., I fixed it, dropped it, and it shattered. Of course, it’s glass. Sorry dudes. But – so it’s beautiful though, it’s beautiful [indiscernible] (50:50) glass on both sides and then a unibody aluminum, cast aluminum bar – stripe all the way around it. The left hand side is – I honestly can’t remember this, I think the left hand side is a 3G antenna, the right hand side is the Wi-Fi antenna, so there is a reason for these bars. At the bottom there are two black plastic insulators that insulate those antennas from the U-shaped piece at the bottom that’s the cellphone antenna. If you cup the iPhone, and it’s very easy to demonstrate this, I’ll show you Kevin right now, I’ve got five bars on my iPhone, all I have to do is cup it in the left hand, and I’m a lefty, so that’s exactly how I would hold it.

Kevin Rose But do you actually hold it like that when you are talking on the phone? Do you hold it that tight?

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Kevin Rose Do you hold it that tight?

Leo Laporte No, maybe not. I don’t know. If you look at the ads, of course somebody sent an email to Steve Job saying dude, and Steve’s response one line, well, don’t do it. So do you see that, it went from five bars to zero bars, just that fast. So, it’s – it does, it’s absolutely true. But you are right, you could do it with a Palm Pre, you can do it with [indiscernible] (51:58), and so – I’ll see if I can find this article an RF engineer wrote a story. Did you – you read the story Tim or either of you?

Tim Shey Yeah, I did see that, yeah.

Leo Laporte Yeah. He wrote a story saying, look, I’ve designed cell towers for AT&T, I know a little bit about RF, here is the deal, he said, all cellphones have to have an antenna, they are radios. Used to be – you’d have the antenna, you’d pull it up, remember that. Motorola realized nobody was pulling out the antenna on their StarTAC, so they built an internal body antenna, if you pull it up it’d use the external but if you didn’t at least it would have something and then have the body antenna. And I remember holding those antennas, and yes you would absolutely attenuate the signal just like you do with this. So he said all cellphones have the antenna in the body.

Here is another thing he said. He said when the FCC tests a cellphone they are not required to test it with [ph] on (52:44) hand but just with a head. So they test the cellphones, I’ve seen this, we went to – remember [ph] with Screen Savers (52:50) we went to the FCC’s testing lab, and they have a clamp with a robot on it and they have the phone and this is clamped – there is no hand, clamped to a robot head, it’s filled with goo – that simulates human body goo, and then they fire the – they put a receptor in the goo and they see where the – the RF [ph] freak characters and so forth (53:10). He says, since they don’t test with a hand, and all the manufacturers know this, where do they put the antenna, where your hand would be because they don’t – it’s not being tested there. And so he says this is going to be a universal problem, every phone has somewhere you can hold it and attenuate it. However, still bad news, right?

Kevin Rose Yeah, it looks bad, and the fact that all these videos are leaking out there and then you know it’s very easy like you said to duplicate the problem.

Leo Laporte Anybody can do this. Yeah.

Dan Shapiro I’ve got an experiment for listener to try. You know those cheap little antenna boosting modules that they used to sell for old school [indiscernible] (53:40)…

Leo Laporte Right, that go in the back, yeah.

Dan Shapiro So I worked at [ph] start up to (53:46) built a cellphone and I talked to the RF engineer and I said so these are [indiscernible] (53:49), right, and he said, no, no, no. They did go through a lot of effort to go optimize the radiation all different directions for the cell phones, and when you put one of those stickers on, you are hitting the random number generator. May get something better, may get something worse.

So I put it out there. I want somebody to grab a couple of these stickers, there’s cheap ones that you can find and they give away for free, stick them all over the iPhone 4, let’s hear what happens.

Leo Laporte See where the best place to put a sticker is. And see that’s the part of the problem is you don’t even want to put a case on this. I think the confirmation that Apple knew about this is that the Apple does for the first time sell a case for the iPhone, guess what it is, it’s a piece of rubber that goes around the antenna, it goes right where you would hold it. That’s the case. It’s they call their bumper case.

Owen JJ Stone Apparently that pretty much eliminates the issue…

Leo Laporte And it fixes it.

Owen JJ Stone Yeah, it eliminates the antenna issue, so…

Dan Shapiro Keeps your fingers away from it.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Owen JJ Stone Yeah.

Dan Shapiro So, would it be cheaper to just give those away for free than do a recall?

Leo Laporte They can’t – they are not going to do a recall.

Dan Shapiro They are not going to recall, right.

Kevin Rose So is it the fact that it just the metal isn’t coated with anything? I mean if they put a slight, thin plastic coating in the outside, could they not solve this problem?

Leo Laporte Maybe, yeah; yeah, maybe, paint it or tape it.

Kevin Rose Yeah.

Leo Laporte I’m not sure. Some people say it’s because we are shorting the top antenna and the bottom one…

Kevin Rose Right. That’s what I was thinking yeah.

Leo Laporte I’m not sure if it’s that or just we are blocking it. But I’m sure you could fix it.

Kevin Rose What if you put a paperclip between those two and touch…

Leo Laporte Shall I try?

Kevin Rose Yes, let’s try it and let’s hack this thing.

[Inaudible] (55:12)

Leo Laporte So, it wouldn’t be such a problem except that AT&T has such a crappy reputation for dropped calls already.

Kevin Rose Right.

Leo Laporte And this is just going to play right into what people think about the iPhone. Do you want to try it?

Kevin Rose Yeah, let’s see if we can…

Leo Laporte I don’t know if you got – I have this clip [indiscernible] (55:30) penny would be better because it’s copper, right.

Owen JJ Stone [Ph] Just a damn finger (55:35), probably.

Leo Laporte Well we know, yeah, but we want to test it with like…

Kevin Rose Does anybody have a penny on them?

Leo Laporte No, nobody has a penny?

Kevin Rose Or a gold chain.

Dan Shapiro What's a penny?

Dan Shapiro Wait do I want to go on record as handing in my wedding ring for a science experiment?

Kevin Rose There you go.

Owen JJ Stone [Indiscernible] (55:51) my wedding ring. It’s gold.

Kevin Rose Gold is better. Gold is the best. Yeah.

Dan Shapiro What if they just didn’t charge $30 for the bumper?

Owen JJ Stone What if they just didn’t charge $30 for the bumper?

Dan Shapiro [ph] But they (56:00) gave it away.

Owen JJ Stone Not even give it away, just charge a reasonable price. It’s the thinnest case you can get, and it still costs as much as the most expensive case you can get. I mean, really…

Kevin Rose That’s a good point.

Owen JJ Stone Fix the problem, [indiscernible] (56:10) $10 for the thinnest piece of rubber available, I mean Apple is the best at saying, look this is pretty, you are going to pay for no matter what idiot. Just make it cheaper. If you know how to fix the problem, I’ll pay $10 or $5. $30 for a rubber strip and I drop it and the glass still breaks, they are crazy.

Kevin Rose [Indiscernible] (56:27).

Leo Laporte This is why I love Owen for.

Kevin Rose Yeah, he just comes in and gets pissed off and walks out.

Leo Laporte Actually Owen you can use the room mic too if you – any time you want, just come in.

Kevin Rose So, yeah, I got it down two bars with the golden ring.

Leo Laporte With the ring?

Kevin Rose Yeah.

Leo Laporte Not with your finger, just the ring. So it is shorting it then, that’s what it is. And just take a while, it takes about a minute or two.

Kevin Rose Yes, it’s down to a couple of bars there.

Leo Laporte Yeah, there you go, okay.

Dan Shapiro And that’s [ph] when (56:48) because it has to go and say, are you there, are you there, are you there, it’s talking to the tower and it takes a minute to figure out that, no --

Leo Laporte There is no tower.

Kevin Rose Yeah.

Leo Laporte We couldn’t demonstrate there is a [ph] FuCamp (56:56), because we didn’t have any signal anyway on AT&T. It’s part of the [indiscernible] (57:00). It’s interesting, you know. One of the things that surprised me and somebody was telling me you have been a previous Fuze, Kevin. That it was pretty typical at these events for everybody to have a laptop out as they are listening to event, is that the case?

Kevin Rose Yeah. I mean [indiscernible] people (57:15).

Leo Laporte No laptops.

Kevin Rose Really?

Leo Laporte No laptops.

Kevin Rose Why is that?

Leo Laporte Barely even phones.

Kevin Rose There were a couple, I’ve had [indiscernible] (57:20). It was like really everyone was just talking.

Leo Laporte It was – I have never been in a conference, and it wasn’t like everybody colluded, just nobody brought in a laptop, I didn’t even bring one.

Kevin Rose That’s awesome.

Leo Laporte Yeah. I don’t know what that [ph] imperils (57:40), if anything.

Kevin Rose But there was also – there are a couple of talks about – they are all about like turning off technology and getting – there is one about like...

Leo Laporte Slow technology…

Kevin Rose Yeah, there is one called slow technology and there is another one about the new affluence being having leisure time, and you know, all kinds of – there is like a real impulse among. And I think it was from a lot of the people that have been there a lot.

Leo Laporte Right.

Kevin Rose They were like the [multiple speakers] (58:00) – and they were – they were all just – they are all looking for a way to sort of disengage from all the [indiscernible] (58:04) of information.

Leo Laporte If anything, the people at an event like this, we are talking about Bill – Bill O'Reilly – Tim O'Reilly. I don’t want to --

Kevin Rose [indiscernible] (58:13) totally different.

Leo Laporte Bill O'Reilly who – Tim O'Reilly – I didn’t sleep, I literally did not sleep for three days, so if you all excuse me, Tim O'Reilly who is a publisher at O'Reilly Media, and for years published all these great computer books with the animals on the cover and they do a number of big, big conferences. Started about eight years ago I think to have these he call them friends of O'Reilly camp where to bring about 200-250 of not friends of his necessarily but really interesting thinkers together in a variety of disciplines, kind of semi-private environment they all camp and it’s an un – it was a first un-conference I think.

Kevin Rose Yeah.

Leo Laporte So it was the first conference without planned agenda, without keynotes, without speeches, but everybody goes who’s kind of expected to participate either by engaging in an event or by putting one on, and there’s people with Van de Graaff generators, we toasted a marshmallow last night with a Van de Graaff generator.

Dan Shapiro Tesla coil.

Leo Laporte Oh it was a Tesla coil.

Dan Shapiro Oh yeah.

Kevin Rose Yeah.

Leo Laporte Okay, never mind.

Dan Shapiro More fun.

Leo Laporte It was loud.

Kevin Rose [indiscernible] (59:17) marshmallow there and I thought it was going to explode.

Leo Laporte It also smelled odd.

Dan Shapiro Ozone, oh yeah.

Leo Laporte Yeah, it was pretty ozony.

Dan Shapiro It was amazing, I learned something that I was not expecting to – I was not expecting to be educated in this category, but one of the talks I went to is Linda Stone former – a researcher, has been with Microsoft Research and she was doing a study on email apnea. So I have mild sleep apnea and my doctor scared the [indiscernible] (59:40) out of me when he showed me some of the numbers.

Leo Laporte You stop breathing, right?

Kevin Rose Sleep apnea is where you stop breathing, I am the mild case. Severe cases shorten the life span by 5 to 10 years or more.

Leo Laporte Oh that’s not good.

Dan Shapiro It’s tremendous --

Leo Laporte So you stopped breathing and you don’t breathe and then suddenly with a gas you start breathing again, is that basically it?

Dan Shapiro Exactly.

Leo Laporte Okay.

Dan Shapiro And she discovered that people have the same behavior while they are checking their email. That people actually --

Leo Laporte Hold their breath?

Dan Shapiro -- stop their breathing and hold their breath while they are doing important emails. [indiscernible] (60:07) stress levels going up [ph] horizontal (60:10) so on and so forth. And this is amazing and terrifying at the same time. So she, I guess she blogs it and found some tools that you can actually put a little clip on your year and have a little glowing orb in the corner of your screen and when your blood oxygen level or whatever it is starts to drop it turns red, it will remind you to take a breath.

Leo Laporte That’s pathetic, that we actually need to be told to breathe by technology.

Dan Shapiro She was talking about practicing breathing and I am thinking I have been practicing breathing for 34 years --

Leo Laporte And if you weren’t breathing wouldn’t you know it? Yeah.

Dan Shapiro I guess that was [indiscernible] (60:41).

Owen JJ Stone This is the reason these things need to be taped and put online, I would love to watch that talk.

Leo Laporte Well and that’s my – yeah, that’s my contention is it’s great to do this some kind of in private because I guess people feel free to talk. This is like TED, I mean these are – many of them spoke at TED. This is like an amazing event and it’s a shame – I celebrate the fact that TED decided to put everything online, and that’s a huge boon and I think O’Reilly should probably do the same thing.

Here is a picture of the Tesla coil making a [indiscernible] (61:15). And that was taken with the iPhone and I have to say the camera on the new iPhone 4 is unbelievable. It is as good as a 5 megapixel point-and-shoot.

Kevin Rose Are you happy with the video?

Dan Shapiro [indiscernible] (61:22) Nexus One.

Leo Laporte Nexus One is very good. I am not --

Dan Shapiro Hardware is great the software is terrible. It takes tremendous video but it usually mis-exposes the still photos. So I come out of – my most recent company was [indiscernible] (61:37) Photobucket, so --

Leo Laporte Oh you know a little bit about this.

Dan Shapiro way too much with camera phones, but --

Leo Laporte Yeah. I thought the Nexus One was pretty good, but now the iPhone 4 is dramatically good. I mean it really is spectacular. That’s going to change things, in fact it’s going to be – I think it’s going to put some pressure on Cisco, their flip camera, who would buy a flip camera, right? If – well somebody doesn’t have an iPhone, I guess, but this is as good as a flip easily, there you go. And shooting that Tesla coil in low light at night, it’s spectacular. Here is something Google brought they call it not quite the holodeck.

Kevin Rose Oh it’s fantastic.

Dan Shapiro Oh yeah.

Leo Laporte What is that? It’s like Google Earth on eight screens.

Kevin Rose Yeah it was just Google Earth on eight screens, but just the [indiscernible] (62:15) experience of having it around you and --

Dan Shapiro And [indiscernible] (62:20) controller.

Kevin Rose Yeah great controller, that you can just tilt and sort of pan and move around, and we actually – we did some fun stuff with it, you can fly around the moon, you can go around where the moon landing is, and you can actually – if you get good at the controller you can sit yourself down right on the rover and look around and sort of see the horizon as they saw it on – there is another really cool area [ph] I forgot what it’s called (62:37) the canyon that’s right off the LA coast [indiscernible] (62:42) underwater canyon [indiscernible] (62:44).

Dan Shapiro Mariana Trench.

Kevin Rose The Mariana Trench. You can actually go under the water and sort of fly through the Mariana Trench which is something no one has ever seen before and so it’s like [indiscernible] (62:53) fly around and zoom and --

Dan Shapiro And then when you are over the earth you see all the buildings because people have actually gone and built the buildings in Google Earth, uploaded them, put them in the proper [indiscernible] (63:00).

Kevin Rose Yeah, they have wrapped the photos around the buildings too.

Dan Shapiro Right.

Kevin Rose So if we are going through like Western New York, like I was flying to my apartment, look at my window, and like there are some that are so life-like graphs, like I saw like a little garage shop that was – and it’s just the experience of having huge screens around you that --

Dan Shapiro Yeah that’s awesome.

Kevin Rose I literally got motion sickness behind me and I had to leave.

Dan Shapiro I actually flew through third-world countries, Vietnam, Tokyo, all the buildings are there.

Owen JJ Stone When is the – I want – there needs to be like an MMO for monopoly like Google Earth, like – they were working on that, what happened?

Leo Laporte There was one where you could buy your town and you could buy your streets --

Owen JJ Stone Wouldn’t that be awesome like you could buy buildings, like those 3D buildings and then own them and that would be [indiscernible] (63:40).

Leo Laporte There was, well then there is MyTown, which is --

Owen JJ Stone MyTown --

Leo Laporte -- that’s kind of the idea.

Owen JJ Stone Yeah.

Dan Shapiro Was it Second Life, don’t they let you do that pretty much?

Owen JJ Stone But it’s not based on real world stuff it’s their own universe, right. It would be awesome if it was like Google Earth based.

Kevin Rose The impulse was definitely to play, I mean, once you're – so I hope they make that available because as soon as you are on the moon you wanted to actually – everybody wanted to drive the rover around, and like the – so that’s probably the next step is to just have a massive Mars game or something we could all go [indiscernible] (64:07) or something from it.

Owen JJ Stone Everybody’s waiting.

Kevin Rose Yeah.

Leo Laporte So I think and actually [ph] Robert [indiscernible] (64:14) and I wanted to do this and we didn’t, was a debate iPhone versus Android. And I think it would have been an interesting debate and I was going to debate the Android side although Robert pointed out, and I think he was accurate, that I could flip easily like, like halfway through he was going to say, okay, now switch. So I think you could make a case for either but I have to say that almost always when I hear people extol the virtues of the iPhone, it’s things like – it’s just better, it’s just easier, it’s prettier. It’s a very subjective thing. [multiple speakers] Android (64:41) kills with features.

Owen JJ Stone Yeah, so I’ve got this theory that I have – I think it holds true is that if you’re an iPhone user and you have the iPhone and you’ve used it for more than six months to go to Android seems like a step down from a UI standpoint.

Leo Laporte Right.

Owen JJ Stone And it just doesn’t feel as clean, there’re certain buttons that we wouldn’t expect – you just get so comfortable with the iPhone, it’s hard to make that jump. So when I bought the Nexus One or the Semi One I started playing with it, I’m like ah, I could make the jump because there are some features and some apps that they don’t have in the iPhone.

Leo Laporte You can dictate anywhere.

Owen JJ Stone No, I just, I just – it didn’t feel as clean and cool --

Leo Laporte [indiscernible] (65:20).

Owen JJ Stone You know what I mean?

Leo Laporte So I think, we’re going to – next one’s going to be a very telling time. First of all, at the announcement for Droid X this week, on Wednesday, Rubin and – Andy Rubin of Android said, we are now installing 160,000 handsets a day. That’s five million a month – Android handsets. So that – I mean when Apple goes hey we sold three million iPads in the last three months. They’re selling five million a month of Android but also we’re going to see and by the way 58,000 apps. At that point I don’t think whether you’re 58,000 or a quarter of a million I think you’re close enough, right? Does it matter?

Dan Shapiro There is one big difference, though which is that the big businesses are investing in fantastic experiences on the iPhone and they’re not doing that yet on Android.

Kevin Rose You definitely kind of feel like [indiscernible] (66:09) Android like --

Leo Laporte Still?

Kevin Rose Yeah, you got apps like – it feels like when it matter to buy software from the Mac – when before everything is on the way…

Owen JJ Stone It did, right. We’re used to that as Mac users.

Kevin Rose We’ll be like, oh man! six months to get the new game --

Leo Laporte Right.

Kevin Rose And it feels like that was absolutely Android.

Leo Laporte Right.

Dan Shapiro [indiscernible] (66:23) on the iPhone you get the Pizza Hut app and the tucker time and this and that on Android you get a metal detector. Somebody actually went and hacked up the --

Owen JJ Stone See? Come on.

Dan Shapiro So that you can actually use it as a real metal detector.

Leo Laporte What do you want, Dan? Pizza time or a metal detector?

Dan Shapiro Exactly --

Kevin Rose That’s pretty cool.

Dan Shapiro So it all depends on what matters to you.

Leo Laporte I think you’re right. I mean [indiscernible] (66:42) on there now. Every program that I really needed on the iPhone is in fact they have a much better audible app on Android is killer and there’s no audible app on the iPhone and people say well, you don’t need an app. That’s the point of the iPhone it just plays’em

Kevin Rose Yeah.

Leo Laporte -- but on the Android you got a list of every book you ever bought on audible, it gives you stats, they have badges, FourSquare style badges for listeners, listeningship. I think that – I don’t know and I think if I am a developer I would – don’t you think you’d be scared to develop for iPhone these days and much more comfortable developing for Android especially when you know there’s five million handsets a month being sold.

Owen JJ Stone It seems like a short-term problem the apps [indiscernible] (67:20)

Leo Laporte So, Droid X is the next Motorola droid. Looks pretty sweet, looks like the EVO with 4.3 inch screen, eight megapixel camera but I’m – put my money on Samsung’s Galaxy X which comes out, no one knows but we think next month.

Dan Shapiro Oh, that’s a beauty.

Leo Laporte Have you seen the CTIA?

Dan Shapiro I did. And Samsung is in an interesting position because they have this new operating system bada which is their mid-range or cheap smartphone --

Dan Shapiro Their feature phone.

Dan Shapiro High-end feature and they are paying developers scandalous amounts of money to go bring, brilliant experiences to bada.

Leo Laporte Well, that’s interesting.

Dan Shapiro And from what I’ve heard of people who’ve actually lived with the phone, they’re wonderful phones. They --

Leo Laporte [multiple speakers] (68:00)

Dan Shapiro They have the iPhone sensuousness. I haven’t got to play with one yet. So that’s going to be really interesting when suddenly you have feature phone pricing and bill of materials and design and great applications outside of the smartphone ecosystem.

Kevin Rose Samsung is only one of a few companies that really could do that. I mean they really have the clout to do that. They make the Amoled screens that are in the Galaxy as 4 inch which is not as big as EVO Android X but I think – but bigger than the iPhone. I think just about right actually.

Dan Shapiro Yeah, [ph] when it’s (68:33) too big because I’ve a 4.5 --

Kevin Rose 4.3 is big.

Dan Shapiro [indiscernible] (68:40) EVO looks a little uncomfortable.

Kevin Rose I feel like if your phone needs to [ph] extend (68:42), it’s probably too big.

Leo Laporte That’s one of the things EVO has.

Dan Shapiro Yep. You have to reinforce the [ph] lining in (68:44) your pocket.

Leo Laporte Burns a hole in your pocket. Well, here’s the good news. If you like smartphones and I think anybody who listens to this show likes having a computer in their pocket, your – this is a great time – I mean you really --

Dan Shapiro Great time.

Leo Laporte So, you’re still on the 3GS?

Kevin Rose I know I’m going 4 soon.

Owen JJ Stone [indiscernible] (69:01)

Kevin Rose Yeah, exactly.

Leo Laporte Doesn’t it look kind of retro? It kind of looks little retro compared to the 4.

Kevin Rose I still want to buy the original iPhone like sealed and box and save it.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Kevin Rose That’ll be worth something some day.

Leo Laporte Oh yeah. I have the original iPod.

Kevin Rose Do you? First gen?

Leo Laporte First gen.

Owen JJ Stone I have a Newton; it still works too?

Leo Laporte Well, I have a Newton too.

Owen JJ Stone Yeah.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Kevin Rose That’s awesome.

Leo Laporte You know why it works because you put real batteries alkaline battery.

Owen JJ Stone And I haven’t used it much.

Kevin Rose That’s amazing.

Leo Laporte How’s the handwriting recognition?

Owen JJ Stone Not the same.

Kevin Rose First generation iPhone – oh nice. First generation --

Leo Laporte Wow.

Kevin Rose iPod --

Owen JJ Stone I forgot what the original iPhone felt like.

Leo Laporte Look how big the original iPod was. That was five gigabyte that thing’s like a decade.

Owen JJ Stone

And it’s got the actual hard drive inside it.

Leo Laporte Yeah, you can almost feel it’s been up when you just --

Owen JJ Stone You could feel when it’s been up, remember [indiscernible] (69:52)

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Owen JJ Stone That’s amazing. I forgot it was fire wire.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Kevin Rose [indiscernible] (69:54) right on it, that’s awesome.

Dan Shapiro Yeah, I was working --

Leo Laporte You could use a fire alarm cable.

Dan Shapiro I was working at Microsoft when this came out and everybody was clustered around one of the first one that somebody brought in and the thing that got everybody just their heads spinning around was – they put a speaker in here just so that they could make a click when you turn the wheel.

Leo Laporte That’s right.

Dan Shapiro That was [indiscernible] (70:16) and everybody around the table said we would never do that here.

Leo Laporte No. It’s bad engineering, it’s crazy and yet it’s great UI. It’s brilliant UI. We’re passing around the hardware while we do that, Dan Shapiro is here, serial venture – serial entrepreneur, do you want to talk about your latest project, what are you working on there?

Dan Shapiro [indiscernible] (70:38) was yet so I’m toying

Leo Laporte You’re just in between?

Dan Shapiro I’m toying with some things in eCommerce, some things in online education, some things in mobile app stores and we’ll see what --

Leo Laporte What do you think – well, okay, so you have your choice, so what category you think is the next big thing?

Dan Shapiro Oh, boy!

Leo Laporte Apps?

Dan Shapiro No, Apps are the last big thing.

Leo Laporte Location? Mobile? Those are all old?

Dan Shapiro Those are all pretty --

Leo Laporte You need to be the next thing.

Dan Shapiro Yeah, exactly. Well, one of the things that I’m really excited about right now is the problem of eCommerce is 10-years old and I feel like we are – our search was before Google looked at it. 10-years ago Amazon looked at the problem of how to buy things, commodities, laptop, DVD player etc., and said we’re going to go do this and they built this idea of search. So you’re looking for something and you go search for it. And then they added to it the idea of serendipity. So I’m looking at this thing and they say what about that thing? So there’s been a renaissance around serendipity. You’ve got whooped and you’ve got group on and you’ve got these people flash sales saying here is something you might not have known you need it, but it’s entertainment shopping. But nobody has gone back to that original concept of, I have a problem, I’ve got 200, 300, $400 in my pocket to go solve that problem, help me solve that. So I’ve been spending some time thinking about what is the solution of that look like and how do you help people shopping to solve problems. I know what I need; how do I get that?

Kevin Rose Kind of like [indiscernible] (71:55) hunch?

Leo Laporte Yes, hunch, a little bit --

Dan Shapiro Something like that.

Kevin Rose Hunch for commerce?

Dan Shapiro I like to think of it as [indiscernible] (72:01) for Commerce.

Leo Laporte Oh that’s interesting. So you, okay. You maybe – there’s a recommendation and you’re giving some parameters and it gives you some ideas, like that?

Dan Shapiro That’d be an interesting way to go about it. So I’m prototyping a few different approaches right now, I’m simultaneously being secretive and don’t know the right answer. So I’m playing with --

Owen JJ Stone You sound like you know what you are doing.

Dan Shapiro [indiscernible] (72:26) to see what feels right.

Leo Laporte We’re also – Kevin Rose is also here, always a pleasure to have Kevin, one of the original TWiTers.

Kevin Rose Episode number one.

Leo Laporte Episode one. Actually episode zero too for that matter. Somebody said, oh, I’m disappointed you kept Kevin only, you didn’t get all the rest of the guys. We could do a re-issue.

Kevin Rose We should do that.

Leo Laporte Yeah, it’d be really fun to do that. Maybe have a – you know what, I can get a barbeque out there and I will cook out

Kevin Rose Yes.

Leo Laporte Wouldn’t that be fun?

Dan Shapiro Awesome.

Kevin Rose [indiscernible] (72:48) friends of Leo, there are five of them. It’s a small group, but a nice bunch of people.

Leo Laporte We’ll do that, we’ll definitely do that. Also Tim Shey is here from and Dean Putney from, he is a developer at Boing Boing. We’ll be back with more in just a bit, but I want to tell you a little bit about and a very special deal from audible right now they call it the Big Summer Listen, if you go to you can get a book absolutely free and when I’m saying free, I mean no strings, you don’t even need to give them a credit card, you don’t even need to nothing, just take a book, they only do this once a year, so this is the time to do this,, you’re going to choose from one of – looks like they said eight books but now it looks like 12, 16, there’s quite – it’s an unlimited number. It’s a huge number. It’s a free audio book giveaway but you cannot do this if you’re an audible member, so audible members don’t go there and if you want to become an audible member then I can get you three books free how about that? Look at all these books. This is great. The Lost Fleet, Master and Commander, that’s a great way. Boy, Audible is smart, they know if they – if you read Master and Commander they’re going to get you for 21 more books for the whole series of Patrick O'Brian books. That’s very – that’s smart first one’s free. It’s one the – one of my favorite things. I am Legend, the Good Earth, the Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and Next 100 years by George Friedman are really good book. Jane Austen’s Persuasion. There’s a lot of books in here. Time Traveler’s Wife I just read this, I loved it, Life of Pi, maybe the best audio book ever made, The Road another great one. Outlander, wow. Stiff by Mary Roach the story of death

Tim Shey Oh! That’s a really --

Leo Laporte -- isn’t that a great book.

Tim Shey And Boink it’s companion.

Leo Laporte Stiff and Boink.

Tim Shey Oh! brilliant.

Leo Laporte I just finished Boink, it’s all about science and sex.

Tim Shey Is Daemon on there?

Leo Laporte Daemon is not but – okay, so here’s the deal. I’m – actually this is what we’re going to go do this. If you go to, you can sign up for the audible platinum account that’s two free books, and absolutely get Daniel Suarez’s two books, they are – really one book written in two different volumes, there’s Daemon and then Freedom TM. So you get those free but don’t do that until after you’ve gone and picked a book there like Stiff, David Sedaris Live at Carnegie Hall, Little Bee, tons of books here. So pick a book get it free for the summer audio book, give away it’s then go to and you have scammed them out of three books my friend at no cost to you. Three free books go to and take advantage of the summer of reading, because that – they do this once a year and it’s really great and it’s only good through I think July 2nd. So if you’re listening to this, after July 2nd, oops I should have warned you, there’s nothing there. then and as always we thank audible for their support and by the way if you do have a Nexus One, the Audible App on here is just great, it gives you everything you’ve ever listened to because once you buy a book on Audible, it’s yours for life, you can take it off any – you don’t have to leave it on the device. So every book I’ve ever bought, I mean there is 300 and 400 books here, because I’ve been an Audible member since --

Tim Shey Is there an Audible iPhone App too?

Leo Laporte No, I wish they would do this for the iPhone because it’s really fantastic. You don’t need it for the i – because the iPhone you just listen in the – on the iPod --

Tim Shey Right.

Leo Laporte But I like this better because you could bookmark, you can – you get these – like I said badges, they’ve got [indiscernible] (76:37) stats like – here’s the stats it’s like, I’m a rank beginner – no audible master, audible [indiscernible] (76:47) pro, scholar. Then they show you how many hours you’ve spent, their badges you see like FourSquare style badges on there. This is in beta right now, but it’s really sweet [indiscernible] (76:55) amount of time you spent listening, very – it’s a day – monthly, daily here is a – here is a graph – this is for nerds who love stats, just very smart.

Tim Shey Yes.

Leo Laporte we thank them so much for their support this WEEK in TECH. So what else? I know I haven’t really been paying attention to the tech news. Any other big stories that affected you, Kevin Rose? I think the big story is Digg 4 and I’m really excited about this.

Kevin Rose Oh! Thank you.

Leo Laporte You only have about like – it’s done, actually just that we just turn it off [indiscernible] (77:28).

Kevin Rose [indiscernible] (77:29).

Leo Laporte Man, I hope you got a chance to play with it and how soon before you think it will come out.

Kevin Rose We’re going to start inviting people probably tomorrow or the next day at about 10,000 or so a day.

Leo Laporte Oh good.

Kevin Rose [indiscernible] (77:40) launch

Leo Laporte So go there anyway, go to and just sign up.

Kevin Rose Yeah, sign up, and we’ll put you on the list and then we’ll send you an invite very soon.

Leo Laporte That’s – I think this is going to transform Digg and I’m going to use it more in fact I’m thinking, I’m going to start using it to bookmark stories for our shows. We wanted to do that ages ago, but I think this is the time to do it.

Kevin Rose Submitting content is much easier now, it’s like two clicks.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Kevin Rose It’s Awesome.

Leo Laporte I like that. Let’s see, iPhone we talked about. We talked about Android, Dan anything that’s on your mind these days, any big tech stories you thought were interesting – we’ve just been like locked up in a room for the last three days, I don’t know what’s going on.

Dan Shapiro Yes, totally off the grid, it was kind of fun.

Leo Laporte It’s kind of fun, isn’t it? I was at news with Steven Levy who writes for Wire but was at Newsweek and wrote Hackers, by the way, I got the 25th edition of Hackers and I got Steven to sign it himself. Yes, smart, huh.

Dan Shapiro Yes.

Leo Laporte He is just great, but we’re talking about this Rolling Stone article. I thought this was quite interesting. And I kind of wasn’t paying attention because of the Apple thing and then going off to a Foo Camp; Rolling Stone, not known for it’s political reporting, sent a reporter out to interview General McChrystal and got him off the record saying on the record rather all sorts of things that he got fired on Wednesday.

Dan Shapiro And I don’t think it’s true that they are not known for their political reporting. I think they do that once every --

Leo Laporte Once in a while, you are right, and when they do it’s great.

Dan Shapiro Like [indiscernible] (79:13) reporting was born.

Leo Laporte You are right. Actually it’s not fair to them you know they had Hunter S. Thompson. So that was a topic of conversation this week. What’s on, anything on your mind Tim, anything, tell me about NextNew Networks. What’s the latest for you guys?

Tim Shey We had like a big week where we put up a new site called, that’s really, it’s really just for our fans and sort of changed the incard on all of our videos where we are passing a billion views I think like --

Leo Laporte You passed a billion views, Holy Cow!

Tim Shey Yes.

Leo Laporte That’s like Lady Gaga.

Tim Shey Yes, it’s us and Lady Gaga and a couple other people, and yeah, so it’s pretty cool. It took us about 8000 videos to do it, so you know, the backwards way we have been thinking about that is if your average video on the web gets a hundred lifetime views, you know the average video we’ve put out has gotten about 125,000, and you know, we’ve, people haven’t heard of NextNew Networks so much but we are the people that did the Obama Girl videos and we’ve spun a lot of political comedy after that. And we’ve got all these other channels like Indy Mogul and ThreadBanger and now we are starting to move into things like food with Hungry Nation and a fitness network called Click Fitness, so that whole way of just locking up with independent producers and just helping them succeed is really starting to pay off. So Next New Billion if you don’t know what we do you can just go there and there is like a playlist of about 80 videos with over a 100,000 views that sort of give a sort of show you might have seen one of them over the years.

Leo Laporte I was talking to Dina Kaplan at Foo Camp of Blip.TV --

Tim Shey Yes, she is great.

Leo Laporte She was saying, and maybe you have seen this at Revision 3 as well, that advertising support for video – IP video networks is jumped at the end of the last year and this year. That’s been our experience as well.

Kevin Rose It’s been pretty crazy.

Leo Laporte This is very good news, right?

Tim Shey Yes, we have all kind of known each other in the industry forever and --

Leo Laporte We’ve all been struggling for years --

Tim Shey Yeah, I mean --

Leo Laporte Trying to put this together.

Tim Shey And we’ve all shared the info along the way and you know the hard thing with online video is that we’re not actually competing with each other, it’s not like someone goes, I really want to advertise a new video but I just can’t decide between Revision 3 and --

Leo Laporte I can’t wait to that day.

Tim Shey We’re trying to compete with every single website and piece of content on the web --

Leo Laporte Right.

Tim Shey The same amount of user gets into us, gets into Facebook and Google, so you know, it’s every time one of us goes out there and I talk to Dina a lot about this and I’ve talked to Kevin [indiscernible] (81:35) at Revision 3 a lot about this is that we are not only trying to sell ourselves but we are trying to sell the whole medium every time we go out the door and it’s been three years of really hard work, getting enough to a level where we are all, if not profitable, I think pretty close to profitable.

Kevin Rose Yes, it’s pretty crazy how the advertisers have changed too, like initially it was like tech brands things like that, and now like you know, we just did Ford sponsored Diggnation last time and it’s like it’s crazy. You know, big brands --

Leo Laporte Yes, Ford is one of our sponsors too, and I think that’s really exciting.

Tim Shey This is mainstream when you see a billion views, that’s 50 million views a month and we’ve had five renewals with Warner Brothers, we’ve done like – it’s real brands that are coming in, Samsung, American Express, that are starting to realize that audiences are moving here and all we need is – I did some [ph] conferences the other day and (82:24) and all we need is just a small percentage of --

Leo Laporte Well, that’s the thing --

Tim Shey The advertisement come over and we’d all --

Leo Laporte Right, save a billion dollars --

Tim Shey -- be able to do so much more.

Dan Shapiro So we’re seeing some really interesting things at Photobucket and we have been user generated content forever; a little bit of video, mostly pictures, and about 160 billion media views a month and what’s interesting is the interest is coming up exactly like you are saying. The other thing that’s really fun is we’re starting to see the interest on the mobile platforms as well. People are saying how can we connect with people wherever they are.

Leo Laporte And that’s where you have an advantage, right, because, I mean I guess you – I was watching this world cup on my iPhone though --

Tim Shey Yes.

Leo Laporte On MobiTV I was – I have to confess I was in a very boring session. It was everything I could do.

Dan Shapiro Is that why the Wi-Fi network was so slow?

Leo Laporte Yes, exactly and we were all watching --

Tim Shey We are starting to see a lot of viewership come from the YouTube mobile app. And there is not a lot of space in the YouTube mobile app, but if you are one of the featured videos on YouTube that day, one of those first four that are on the front page that means you are also on the mobile app and we’ll see it, just a huge percentage of our traffic for the day come from there, so. People are using it. We are not exactly sure who or how but I think that we’ve all been waiting for like 10 years, we’ve always said people are going to start watching a lot of video on the mobile phones and I think it’s finally starting to happen.

Leo Laporte Couple other big stories that I actually did neglect to mention. One is there is a price war between the Kindle and Nook, big drop in the price of the Amazon kindle, down to what – what is it, 159 --

Kevin Rose 189?

Leo Laporte 189, 50 dollar drop. And the Nook, if you don’t want – if you want a Wi-Fi only is 149 now.

Dan Shapiro I thought it was free with a cup of coffee --

Leo Laporte Practically, yes. Is that in response to the iPad or is it in response to each other? Are they fighting --

Dan Shapiro The worst of old worlds. I mean they are just getting jumped on.

Leo Laporte On both sides.

Dan Shapiro Yes, so now you can spend, a lot more money and get the iPad which is the sexy version of the Kindle…

Leo Laporte Right.

Dan Shapiro And you’ve got them competing with each other and it turned out I will never understand why Amazon did not decide to be the bookstore instead of trying to be the book. I mean, it’s all --

Leo Laporte Well I was told, here is the deal, I was told there is two divisions. There is a hardware division and there is the book division, the software division, and that’s why I was surprised we saw such a great software app on the iPad which I thought well that’s going to kill the Kindle…

Dan Shapiro Yes.

Leo Laporte It’s different divisions.

Dan Shapiro Yes.

Leo Laporte And actually that’s smart of Jeff Bezos; they are fighting each other, that’s fine.

Dan Shapiro [ph] Eat your own young (84:40).

Leo Laporte Yes, eat your babies as they say at Microsoft.

Dan Shapiro You know there is an angle to a story that I just heard about that was really exciting to me, which was I’ve heard about the Kinect, you know, formerly Project Natal, this new controller, and I didn’t really get what all the fuss was about. So this is a webcam, this is some new algorithms for it and finally I got somebody at Microsoft in the research group to explain to me what all the fuss was about and it’s fascinating. Am I the only person who doesn’t know how this works or --

Tim Shey Is it about the locking in on the skeleton thing?

Dan Shapiro Well, it’s how they do it.

Tim Shey Yes.

Dan Shapiro So it turns out --

Leo Laporte There is – Kinect, is – there is – it’s a bar that you attach to the Xbox 360 to be out in November 150 bucks, it’s got an RGB camera in it, a depth sensor in it, and looks like a microphone array, and it’s 3 sensors.

Dan Shapiro So it was the depth sensor that’s the magic.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Dan Shapiro So the trick is how do you find out, well you put two cameras and you see how deep it is, well, how do you know what the same thing is, because if I know that’s your head then I can figure how far away, but it is – your head or is it book behind it, and the magic is that the second camera, it’s two cameras, the second one is an infra red camera and projecting a grid onto you in infra red.

Leo Laporte Wow!

Dan Shapiro And the infra red camera is scanning the grid so it can actually determine how far you are, it can triangulate and find, so that’s how they know where you are in the room, and the rest of it’s all just software. And they also have an array mic which will help them in voice recognition.

Leo Laporte Right, right. It’s cool, you jump in and it knows it’s you; it puts your avatar up, if one person is playing a single player game and you jump in there it becomes a two player game automatically, and playing it is actually surprisingly fun. I was very skeptical, I saw that [indiscernible] (86:11) jumping around like a goon last year and I thought, this is stupid. I hate the Wii, Wii never did anything for me. This is not the Wii, this is really, really fun.

Dan Shapiro Did you get to play?

Leo Laporte Yeah, I did, and I liked it at E3. I went to E3, and I really liked it and I thought it was a lot of fun.

Another – let’s see, another big story --

Dan Shapiro What about the domains?

Leo Laporte XXX – sexy. And you what it’s funny. I love it. Anything that both porn producers and the religious [indiscernible] (86:38) has got to be different, has got to be interesting. The porn producers don’t like because I guess they are afraid of being censored like being a ghetto on the web. The of course, the [indiscernible] (86:49) don’t like it, because it tells people exactly where to go --

Dan Shapiro [Indiscernible] (86:50) to buy their domains again, just going to be very expensive for them.

Leo Laporte Yeah, if you’re are they going to force them to go to No.

Dan Shapiro No they shouldn’t have to. They have to buy but more to the point they have to go buy all the misspellings and for that might not be such a big deal, but [indiscernible] my (87:07)

Leo Laporte That’s a big deal.

Dan Shapiro That’s a big deal. Or so – all right.

Leo Laporte Wouldn’t know anything about that.

Dean Putney So I’ve got an interesting little anecdote.

Leo Laporte Fire away Dean Putney.

Dean Putney Last night the iPhone 4 was jailbroken.

Leo Laporte That’s right. [Ph] Sorrick (87:25) was at the Foo Camp and he was very excited.

Dean Putney Yeah. This was like 4 o’clock in the morning I’m sitting there with [ph] Chris Pool and Sorrick (87:35) and he’s working on this and did the jailbreak of the second iPhone 4.

Leo Laporte While at Foo Camp, actually that is what we’re doing but he was part of the – yeah, yeah. Cydia – by the way it’s pronounced Cydia and I found out which I didn’t – never knew. I thought it was Cydia, Cydia is now on the iPhone 4.

Dean Putney It’s amazing --

Leo Laporte That’s fast [indiscernible] (87:57) and a 17 year old, I love it.

Dean Putney Yeah. I mean, it’s [ph] Sorrick (88:04) and it’s just one guy.

Leo Laporte He demonstrated something that blew my mind. He showed a way to take running code on an iPhone and inject your code into it. So you could – for instance, like if you – when you press and hold an icon on the iPhone they jiggle, jiggle jiggle, you can have it, instead you go transparent, and jiggle or you can take over a program – a running program and inject your own code into it. I don’t know what the --

Dean Putney Yeah, that was fascinating. He said that he could actually overwrite any C function on the iPad --

Leo Laporte Right.

Dean Putney And/or the iPhone. So he was connecting to it over Wi-Fi and I guess they had written a protocol that use very simple object transverse and it was all sort of like similar to Javascript or Javascript based. And so it was like, he was changing things on the fly and it was immediate.

Leo Laporte I asked him about it. He said it’s – part of it is because Apple uses such consistent naming of its variables it’s very easy to figure out what’s going on, what it’s dealing, simple thing.

Fforward, Kevin, tell me about that. That’s a new show you guys are doing on Revision3.

Kevin Rose Yeah. That’s going to be my next thing after Diggnation. It’s just – I’m just calling it forward, but --

Leo Laporte There is two Fs.

Kevin Rose Yeah. I couldn’t get or or anything else that I wanted. So it’s just and that will be coming soon. So it’s only a newsletter sign up form right now.

Leo Laporte Well, what is it?

Kevin Rose It’s going to just kind of a new show that I’ve wanted to do for a while, like we were talking about before. Something that is going to be a combination of kind of geek culture type show. So not really tech news but more kind of just having these different entrepreneurs that I meet all time in the Bay Area, come on and talk about what they are doing, demo-products. I will have people come on and talk about geek fashion or I know this guy is really passionate about cooking the best steak, have them come on and explain how to make the best steak. I mean, just a little bit of everything.

Leo Laporte So is that a Revision3 show or you just going to be yourself?

Kevin Rose Yeah. It’s going to be Rev3 show.

Leo Laporte Cool.

Kevin Rose And so it’s going to be fun.

Leo Laporte Revision3 also added Cali Lewis and GeekBrief which is very exciting. Really happy to hear that.

Kevin Rose Yeah, it was awesome.

Leo Laporte Yeah. She’s the greatest. So that’s good. Well we’re done. I want to thank everybody for coming out. Kevin Rose from,

Kevin Rose Thank you, sir.

Leo Laporte Congratulations. On the new Digg 4, I’ll look – very – with great interest to see when it launches in the next few weeks.

Kevin Rose Sweet.

Leo Laporte -- and for those of you who are watching live, you get a chance with it before anybody and break it. But no, I think it held up.

Kevin Rose It held up.

Leo Laporte Yeah. That’s a good sign.

Kevin Rose Yeah, a very good sign.

Leo Laporte So glad also to have entrepreneur, Dan Shapiro, here. It’s really nice – that you popped in at the last minute. I’m so glad you did on your way from the camp.

Dan Shapiro Thank you. 250 new followers a day, Dan Shapiro.

Leo Laporte You kidding? We didn’t even mention it yet at Dan Shapiro.

Dan Shapiro I was pretty impressed.

Leo Laporte At Dan Shapiro. Let’s see if we can get him to 500 new followers – at Dan Shapiro, put it right up here. And of course don’t forget pickle sauce hamster – no, no; wait a minute, I am sure it’s something like that. Mustard --

Dean Putney That’s disgusting.

Leo Laporte Dean Putney is mustard hamsters.

Owen JJ Stone Mustard hamsters [indiscernible] (1:31:13).

Leo Laporte And Ohdoctah – I am not going to forget you. Don’t worry Ohdoctah, don’t forget --

Owen JJ Stone I am going to stick my face next to you.

Leo Laporte I am not going to break --

Owen JJ Stone [indiscernible] (91:23) much better I look.

Leo Laporte We look that like that Rosey Grier movie where he had two heads.

Unknown Speaker [indiscernible] (91:26) scary, actually, [ph] possibly (91:30) since one is darker than the other.

Leo Laporte Well, I think it was – who was the other guy – the other head with Rosey Grier? Do you remember that movie?

Dan Shapiro [indiscernible] (91:41) I think I missed this one.

Leo Laporte I think maybe I am having a bad nightmare, I don’t know. You can’t have my iPhone 4.

Owen JJ Stone Look at mine.

Leo Laporte I love you Ohdoctah.

Owen JJ Stone I’ll give it back.

Leo Laporte Ohdoctah, it’s all smashed. Wait a minute. Now, I know a guy up in Rohnert Park will fix that for $85, dude.

Owen JJ Stone $85?

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Owen JJ Stone That’s cheap.

Leo Laporte He’ll just replace the glass.

Owen JJ Stone Put me on.

Leo Laporte Yeah, deal. Where was I? Oh yeah, hamster mustard, mustard hamster, Dean Putney, thank you for coming by, developer of Boing Boing, follow him at Mustard Hamsters. And despite the fact that they misspell it on hampsterdance, there is no p in hamster.

Dean Putney That’s right, it’s actually Mustard Hamsters plural but --

Dan Shapiro There is more than one.

Dean Putney There is more than one, yeah.

Leo Laporte That’s scary. Wow! Mustard Hamsters.

Dean Putney Yeah.

Leo Laporte Who has the hamsters?

Dean Putney They are out there.

Leo Laporte I am scared.

Kevin Rose Could be a soulmate, could be a – is it a lady that has the [ph] other or no? (1:32:30).

Dean Putney Oh, I can’t tell you that, I’m sorry.

Leo Laporte Tim Shey is celebrating one billion views now on It’s really good, really exciting.

Tim Shey It’s fantastic.

Leo Laporte Thank you for coming by, Tim. I am Leo Laporte, we do this show every Sunday, 3:00 PM Pacific Time, 6:00 PM Eastern. That’s 2200 UTC at You can watch this live, listen live, join the chat room or if you don’t have time at that time of course you can always download audio and video of the show. Just go to for more.

Coming up east meets west with the great Tom Merritt. In fact Tom is now part of the network. For those of you who didn’t know, Tom has left CNET and Buzz Out Loud, and does Tech News Today, every Monday through Friday, 05:00 Eastern and 2:30 PM Pacific Time at and you could subscribe to that as well if you go to It’s a really great way to get your daily tech news fix. Becky Worley is on that on a regular basis. I think Gina Trapani is going to him next week. Sarah Lane, lot of great people. That is a great show, Tech News Today.

Thank you everybody, well see you next time. Another TWiT is in the can.

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