TWiT 266/Transcript

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Episode 266


This transcript is provided by our friends at Pods in Print

Introduction Netcasts you love, from people you trust. This is TWiT.

Leo Laporte Audio bandwidth for This WEEK in TECH is provided by Winamp, subscribe to TWiT and all your favorite podcasts with the ultimate media player. Download it for free at Video bandwidth for TWiT is provided by Cachefly, at

This is TWiT, This WEEK in TECH, Episode 266, recorded September 19, 2010: Musty Shelbang.

This WEEK in TECH is brought to you GoToMyPC, think remote access to your PC or Mac is complicated, again it’s easy with GoToMyPC. For your free 30-day trial, visit And by Carbonite Pro with prices starting at $10 a month, all your office PCs can be backed up safely and automatically. For a free trial and to learn more, visit

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It’s time for TWiT, this WEEK in TECH, the shoe that – the shoe, a really great shoe that covers all the technology news. Here he is with his luscious hair just looking fantastic which is surprising because his show just got cancelled, John C. Dvorak. Good to see you.

John C. Dvorak Hello?

Leo Laporte We’re going to talk about Cranky Geeks leaving the airwaves next week.

John C. Dvorak Sure.

Leo Laporte That’s terrible, terrible news. Also here with us, Baratunde Thurston from Brooklyn.

Baratunde Thurston Brooklyn represents it well.

Leo Laporte Very well on this show. It’s great to see you again, Baratunde. When is your book coming out?

Baratunde Thurston My book comes out in year. So we have plenty of time to keep pumping those pre-sales and email signups at

Leo Laporte There you go.

Baratunde Thurston But in the meantime, there’re other people with nearer publication dates or recently published dates.

Leo Laporte Why? Perhaps this fellow here.

Baratunde Thurston Perfect segway.

Leo Laporte Nick Bilton of the Bits Blog. He’s the editor – you are the editor of the Bits Blog on the New York Times site, right?

Nick Bilton I’m the lead technology writer.

Leo Laporte Lead technology writer. And the author of a brand new book.

Nick Bilton Yes, here, here.

Leo Laporte I Live in the Future & Here’s How it Works by Nick Bilton. What’s in that book?

Nick Bilton The future is in that book.

Leo Laporte Wow.

Nick Bilton Yeah. Lots of good stuff about the next five years and how technology is changing society and things like that.

Leo Laporte And he has a dog named Pixel.

John C. Dvorak I’d like to know who’s going to win the Triple Crown next.

Leo Laporte Wouldn’t that be useful?

Nick Bilton Well if you buy the book, John, you may actually get that answer.

John C. Dvorak I’ll call the publisher and get a review copy –

Leo Laporte Is there Q – yeah, he doesn’t buy anything Nick. Is there a QR code for that?

Nick Bilton Yeah. It’s a secret, it’s a little easter egg in the book.

Leo Laporte That’s kind of neat, because every chapter has a QR code leading into it that you can then with your smartphone, I guess, take a picture of and then it will bring you to the forum where you can comment on that.

Nick Bilton Yes, there’s videos, all the links I talk about, all the papers – research papers and news articles and books I link to them on a mobile site and then mobile application and then you can comment and there’s actually people going in there and having conversations about the chapter and calling me funny names. So…

Leo Laporte Not – and I didn’t mean to insult you when I said this before the show started but it seems like that’s the kind of thing like fins on a car that will seem – appear dated in some time in the future, maybe not so far distant future.

John C. Dvorak I like those things.

Leo Laporte QR codes?

John C. Dvorak Yeah. I think it was a good idea.

Leo Laporte I guess what else – other way could you do it?

Nick Bilton Well, there’s these things, there’s one technology I figured that everywhere you can take picture of a series of words and it recognizes what…

Leo Laporte Right.

Nick Bilton … What it is and but even that you have to have a certain type of phone and certain app and your camera has to be pretty high res and so [indiscernible] (4:14) seem like the best, the best solution.

Leo Laporte Although I think yeah, maybe when Google Goggles gets more mature that would be a – that would be the kind of thing Goggles could do directly. John, what are you doing? It sounds like you’re disassembling something…

John C. Dvorak Trying to get some liquorice ones out, those are [indiscernible] (4:27) actually like.

Leo Laporte He’s trying to remove all the black jellybeans from Gina’s gift. Gina Trapani is also here.

John C. Dvorak I didn’t open this thing, you know.

Leo Laporte Gina is the co-host of This Week in Google on our network. She writes blogs at, founder of Lifehacker, she still writes there and does a great column too on Fast Company. In fact, her new video piece is very cool and it’s her birthday.

Gina Trapani It is, hello. Thrilled to be here with this…

Leo Laporte Happy birthday.

John C. Dvorak Happy birthday, Gina.

Nick Bilton Happy birthday, Gina

Gina Trapani Thank you.

Leo Laporte Gina is exactly as old as a 6502.

Baratunde Thurston Happy birthday.

Gina Trapani Yes I am. Yes I am.

John C. Dvorak Is that an old Pontiac that you’re talking about?

Leo Laporte No, no, no. You know the 6502 which powered the Apple II computer, the first Atari…

John C. Dvorak Oh, Chuck Peddle’s...

Leo Laporte Chuck Peddle, very good. Yeah.

Gina Trapani 1975 was a fine year.

Leo Laporte In fact, I have somewhere if I can find it. I guess if I go to, I’ll be able to find it. A ad that was kind of co-contemporary with the launch of the 6502, let me see if I can find this here. Featuring William Shatner –

Gina Trapani Looking very young and slim.

Leo Laporte Looking very young and svelte and slim and he’s advertising – and handsome, let’s not forget. Advertising for – well, let me just, actually lets just play it for you because it is kind of cool to see. He beams in.


John C. Dvorak What is he doing with his hands?

Leo Laporte Look, he’s touching the keyboard.

John C. Dvorak Looks like a Mac.

Leo Laporte Wow I love – thank God for YouTube. We wouldn’t have any record of that.

Baratunde Thurston That’s awesome.

Nick Bilton That was pretty amazing.

Leo Laporte Did you have a Comm – who had a Commodore 64? You guys are all too young to have had a Comm. You had one, Nick?

Nick Bilton No I did. Totally, yeah. I used to play Chuckie Egg and write little code where I would like 10 if press x, go to 20, you know I mean it was awesome.

Leo Laporte Chuck Yeager was like the original flight simulator.

Nick Bilton No, it was the game where you had to collect eggs, it was almost like a…

Leo Laporte Oh, Chuck Egg, and not Chuck Yeager?

Nick Bilton Chuck Egg, yes. Chuckie Egg. It was like a ghetto Mario Brothers.

John C. Dvorak A big check came in for Leo.

Leo Laporte I was trying to sound so smart. Oh, yeah, Chuck Yeager. He’s the guy who was a – wasn’t there a Chuck Yeager flight simulator game? There was.

John C. Dvorak Not that I remember.

Baratunde Thurston Oh, I fully expect Nick to write I Live in the Past and Here’s How it Works.

Nick Bilton Yeah, that’s my second book.

Leo Laporte If somebody could figure out how the past works, I would be thrilled, I would buy that book. Forget the future, we can barely handle the past. Well, let’s talk about this week’s news. That was one of the stories, of course, was that the 6502 hit its 35th birthday. You know, it’s – I mean 35 is not that old, look at Gina. But for a computer that’s ancient, isn’t it, for technology that’s really, really old. It feels like that was the dark ages of personal computing.

Gina Trapani Pretty old.

Baratunde Thurston Our cycles of upgrade and our expectations have accelerated along with time. So you know if you have a three-year-old computer, that’s a pretty much stretch; a 35-year-old computer is just sort of an artifact that belongs in a museum, really. So, to think about what that could do in the upper limits of those times versus what we expect now is a big disconnect.

John C. Dvorak As a matter of fact I did write for Ahoy! Magazine.

Leo Laporte Ahoy! Magazine, the Commodore 64 hobbyist mag.

John C. Dvorak Yeah.

Leo Laporte I used –

John C. Dvorak Somebody in the chip room – the chat room.

Leo Laporte I used to write for an old Atari magazine. So you know, those days were really – were long ago. It’s funny and now where things move faster than ever don’t they, I mean…

John C. Dvorak Right, and there’s no magazines.

Leo Laporte And there’s no magazines. There really aren’t! Nick, what is it like in the New York Times newsroom these days, I mean you are future of the New York Times, the web side?

Nick Bilton It’s fun, I mean it’s pretty interesting. There’s a new culture of journalists that is coming in and I am part of that crew and people like Brian Stelter who writes on the media desk and we’re just trying to experiment with real time reporting and tweeting as we’re researching and asking people questions and the blog format versus the print format, and it’s fun. I mean we’re having a really great time.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I would say, of all the newspapers and this would be kind of the last thing you’d expect of The Gray Lady, of all the newspapers out there – the New York Times has in fact done a – I would say a great job of moving into the future although you look at something like USATODAY which – we would also say maybe another press effort to be futuristic and they’re talking about putting the print paper to bed basically.

Nick Bilton Well, I mean it’s fascinating in the newsroom, there’s a group of hackers that – they hack code all day.

Leo Laporte Really?

Nick Bilton And they look at documents and yes, it’s pretty impressive to see the way that that’s transitioned and that’s happened. So –

Leo Laporte You didn’t get bit by, let’s be honest here, and anybody get bit by the tornado Twitter picture? You know what I’m talking about?

Nick Bilton No, I luckily did not. I was having – I was at a party that evening so I did not.

Baratunde Thurston I didn’t get bit either.

Leo Laporte The Time Magazine people got bit. Time blogger. So there were what – there were some minor tornadoes in Queens – in the Bronx, is that right?

Gina Trapani Brooklyn.

Nick Bilton And Brooklyn.

Baratunde Thurston Brooklyn, yeah.

Leo Laporte Yeah? How is it we have three people from Brooklyn in on Skype today? That’s just a weird coincidence.

Nick Bilton Because Brooklyn is just dominating, that’s just how it works.

Leo Laporte It is. I –

Gina Trapani Brooklyn’s like, if it was a city on its own or would be like, I don’t know, the fourth largest city in the States or something like that.

Baratunde Thurston 2.3 million incredible people live in Brooklyn. Speaking of Manhattan, by far, it’s a massive city – it’s a planet if you want to be honest about it.

John C. Dvorak How many un-incredible people are there?


Baratunde Thurston Not too many. We don’t like to talk about them. Thanks, John, that’s good question. I do not appreciate your insightful journalism.

Leo Laporte That’s – by the way, that’s a new Pixar film, The Unincredibles. Coming to a theatre near you. So there was a – I mean come on. Bronx, Brooklyn, Queens, it can’t have been a tornado. It was like a funnel cloud, right?

Nick Bilton It was two tornados. It was pretty insane. There was trees on top of cars, and cats and dogs – it was actually – in all seriousness, there was a guy who took photos of – actually video of some crabs in the park.

Gina Trapani What?

John C. Dvorak Great. You got two million people with all those phones. Where’s the movie, where’s the video of a funnel cloud of any sort?

Leo Laporte Well…

John C. Dvorak This was a burst, a microburst. It’s bull crap.

Leo Laporte But that’s what happened. Because somebody found a 25 year old picture of an actual tornado near the Statue of Liberty. TWiT picked it. Actually, might have been a blogger from Time Magazine.

John C. Dvorak Or just Photoshopped it.

Leo Laporte Well, you could have. But it wasn’t. This is a real photo, somebody found it on the NOAA site. And it took over Twitter. It was, ‘oh my God! There’s a tornado! Will blow over the Statue of Liberty!’ Kind of embarrassing. But see, that’s – in the age of instant journalism, Nick, that could happen to anybody, right?

Nick Bilton It’s true. But it was quickly realized that it was fake, and that can happen too. So…

Leo Laporte Ah, so your point being, yes, news breaks fast but it also – gets corrected.

Nick Bilton It’s also rectified very quickly, I think.

Leo Laporte Right. It’s kind of the Wikipedia style of fact?

Nick Bilton It’s true, yeah.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Leo Laporte I guess that’s fair.

Baratunde Thurston Do you find – and this is a newsroom question for Nick, which we’ve never talked about kind of not on this show, but – do you find that corrections are closer in volume of reach to the initial mistake nowadays than they were in the past? Because I always worry that that first tweet or Facebook update or email or blog post goes out, and that establishes a certain fact. You later find out that it’s wrong. Now with the high speed communications we have, the correction comes out sooner. Does it have a larger effect on the impact to the original, because it moves so much faster now?

Leo Laporte That’s a very good question.

Nick Bilton Well, it’s a good question. I think one of the things that we struggled with is – in the technology section – is that when you – let’s be realistic, okay, so Apple puts out a press release that they’re really seeing a new iPad, right? Most tech blogs – the goal is to get it up as soon as possible, right. So what they’ll do is they’ll write one sentence and they’ll copy and paste the press release. At The Times, we’re not allowed to do that, it’s part of the standards that we can’t do that, we have to report the story. So we have to – as quickly as possible – get something together that’s a story and get it up. And it can take 15, 16, 17 minutes sometimes. And that’s a pretty big deal when you’re looking at – especially the technology blogosphere space. And we go through the same thing with other breaking news. And I think we just have to be really careful that we don’t put something up unless we’ve actually done the research and the reporting to say, hey, this actually did happen or this didn’t.

John C. Dvorak So the Huff Post does have a video supposedly of the – it has a video of the event, but there’s no tornado cloud that I can see. Just a bunch of rain.


Baratunde Thurston It was definitely more than – I mean one of my friends showed me a photo from the – there used to be a roof over the hallway of his apartment building, and he showed me this picture. I’m like, oh that’s a beautiful skylight, he’s like, no, the roof got ripped off.

Leo Laporte Whoa, skylight. That’s a hole!

Baratunde Thurston Yeah, I was – first I thought I was jealous of him for having so much natural light in his building, and that was – that wasn’t natural…


Leo Laporte Aren’t you an optimist? Aren’t you glass-half-full kind of a guy?

Baratunde Thurston I’m glass like has something in it kind of a guy.

Leo Laporte Yeah, very nice. I like that, Baratunde.

Nick Bilton John, I actually – I was – I thought it was B.S. at first, I thought that it wasn’t a hurricane. But actually yesterday, The Times put a news alert that the National Weather Association said there were two hurricanes – two tornados, sorry – that did strike Brooklyn on Thursday. So…

John C. Dvorak It just surprised me with that many people that you – not one person has a picture of the funnel cloud. I mean it looks like a microburst to me where you have like a lot of heavy wind, it’s that kind of thing that drops airplanes. I mean this video I’m watching is just mostly just a kind of a deluge.

Leo Laporte Après moi, le deluge.

Nick Bilton We could – Baratunde, you want to give me a hand, we’ll Photoshop something real quick for John?

John C. Dvorak That will help.

Baratunde Thurston We’ll put something together.

John C. Dvorak Then we will be back on track.

Baratunde Thurston There’s a tornado inside the Pathmark in Brooklyn.


John C. Dvorak I want it picking up a subway train.

Leo Laporte No, that was just a really hungry lady.

John C. Dvorak We’ll have – one of the guys in the chatroom, by the end of this show, we’ll have a beautifully done Photoshop.

Leo Laporte It’s harder to fake video, though, right?

Nick Bilton It’s harder to fake.

John C. Dvorak Videos yeah, well, they would just have photos.

Nick Bilton Oh yeah.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, but where’s the photos even?

Leo Laporte Well, there’s that one photo, but…

Gina Trapani There’s – there are a lot of photos? I saw a photo of like the M from the Met Foods sign, you know, two blocks from the actual Met Food, and just – trees just crossing I think…

John C. Dvorak Yeah, but somebody could have picked up that sign and moved it.

Leo Laporte People in Missouri are going, ‘you guys are such wimps. There is one tornado and like this tiny little tornado, and it’s like the big news because’ this is exactly what the rest of country thinks.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, everything centers around New York.

Leo Laporte Everything centers around New York. ‘Oh my god, they had a tornado.’ Wow!

John C. Dvorak Meanwhile Oklahomans are going, what?

Leo Laporte What? That wasn’t a tornado. That was a heavy wind. Let’s talk about – well as long as we’re talking about fast press, Mike Arrington publishes his story this morning on TechCrunch saying Facebook is doing a phone. Mike probably figured that Facebook wouldn’t get around correcting that until Monday and he’d get at least a 24 hour news cycle. Facebook apparently wised to TechCrunch’s tricks, immediately says, ‘that is so not true.’

Nick Bilton Yeah.

Gina Trapani Well, Mashable went after them, didn’t they?

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Baratunde Thurston I’ll tell you what. I saw the rumor go up, I read – actually, there was an extensive piece by Jose Vargas in New Yorker this week, where he profiles Mark Zuckerberg…

Leo Laporte That’s a good article.

Baratunde Thurston Great piece, actually. Anil Dash did a really good follow up on that. It’s like they’re both very long pieces, but if you have time, I think they’re both quite worth reading.

Leo Laporte And The New Yorker posted that one online, which is nice. You go to and read it, which is great.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah, I Instapapered that, read it on the iPad. But the idea that Facebook would do a phone, it seems actually a little bit troubling, but also quite logical. I mean there’s so much of your world that’s in there.

Leo Laporte Really?

Baratunde Thurston And posting photos, and you have all your contacts in one place. I’m not a fan of it, because I imagine that like a Facebook phone with default to speakerphone mode or something highly public.

Leo Laporte ‘Privacy? You want privacy? Get another phone!’

Baratunde Thurston But if you didn’t have those trust issues, I think the concept of an entity that knows who you communicate with, on what frequency, and manages lot of your media already, to have more than an app, but actually a device that puts you totally in sync with that, does make some amount of sense.

Leo Laporte Really?

John C. Dvorak To fanatics.

Baratunde Thurston …higher trust for people than Facebook. So I throw that out there as a logical possibility…

Leo Laporte I guess.

Baratunde Thurston When you add the controversy around Facebook, it’s very troubling.

Gina Trapani Yeah I mean I was in Facebook – or Target last week…

Nick Bilton I agree. Actually, I did a story…

Leo Laporte Hold on Nick, let me – let’s Gina talk here.

Gina Trapani Oh, sorry. So I just saw like those Facebook credit gift cards in Target last week…

Leo Laporte Wow.

Gina Trapani And I was just surprised, I had never seen them before. And then when I heard about the phone, I thought about it. I was like, if I’m a junior or senior in high school or even college and I’m shopping for a phone – I’m getting my first cell phone, the Facebook phone just makes total sense. I mean I’m not that person, but it makes a lot of sense. I feel marketing-wise, it would be a smart move.

Leo Laporte Really? Okay, see, I looked at that article, I thought that’s not true. And of course, Facebook immediately says, well, we are in the business of making sure that every phone that comes out has Facebook on it, but the last thing we want to do is make a phone. What do they need to make a phone for? Every phone has to have Facebook. In fact we talked to – on Windows Weekly this week to the guy responsible for evangelizing Microsoft’s Windows Phone 7. And this week, they announced – you bet, a Twitter app, a Facebook app. You don’t ship a smartphone without Facebook on it these days. It’s usually built in, right?

Gina Trapani That’s true.

Baratunde Thurston They get a hundred million people that are accessing the mobile site and using their mobile apps every month. So it’s a lot of people using it. But about them working on a phone, I worked on a story that I – a blog post I posted earlier this month – about Amazon has been discussing their Lab126, about building other devices beyond the Kindle. And one of the things that they actually discussed internally was the idea of doing a phone.

Leo Laporte Really?

Baratunde Thurston They’re not – as far as I know, they’re not moving forward with that right now, but that was a discussion in a meeting that I got from a couple of sources there. So if Apple’s moving into – if Apple and Microsoft are moving into their turf, why wouldn’t they move the other way also?

Leo Laporte I guess that’s true, because I kind of mocked the idea that Amazon would do hardware. I thought that was a very strange thing to do. And obviously, I was wrong about that. They’ve had a huge success with the Kindle.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah.

Leo Laporte Even in the face of competition with the iPad, they continue to sell very, very well. So maybe it is…

Baratunde Thurston And they have to – they’ve taken a pretty amazing approach with that. I mean I originally thought that they – that as soon as the iPad came out, why would someone spend $250 on a Kindle when you can get almost a full computer. But their approach was going the other way and saying, we’ll sell you on for 140 bucks. I think it’s worked pretty well for them.

Leo Laporte Brilliant. And they’re so cheap now. And they’re nice.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah.

Leo Laporte Somebody called the radio show the other day and said, well, I’ve heard about this – whatever, it’s a Pandigital, and there’s all these other e-book readers, what should I buy? And it seems to me a no-brainer, you just buy the Amazon. I mean they just own that market.

John C. Dvorak Apparently, MySpace is thinking of doing a phone too, but it’s going to be a piece of junk.


Baratunde Thurston Really lousy design.

John C. Dvorak Hey, I got a million of them.

Baratunde Thurston It allows you to customize your phone so you can’t use it.


John C. Dvorak And it’s always playing music.

Gina Trapani And it’s got moving background wallpaper.

John C. Dvorak And it’s covered with animated gifs.

Gina Trapani Animated gifs.

Leo Laporte MySpace phone seems like a good idea actually. No, I’ll think about it, dancing bears.

John Dvorak A cat running back and forth across the screen.

Leo Laporte John C. Dvorak is here; Nick Bilton from The New York Times; Baratunde Thurston, great to see him; Gina Trapani, her birthday today. We’ve got lot more to talk about. Before we go on I want to talk a little bit about GoToMyPC, from our great folks, our great friends at Citrix, guys who do remote access at the highest level; remote access for the enterprise.

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Today other big news in the world Intel says, anybody who tries to copy a Blu-Ray is going to hear from our lawyers.

John Dvorak What has Intel got to do with it?

Leo Laporte They invented HTCP apparently.

John Dvorak Oh and so they feel – what they are worried sick about is they are going to get sued by somebody.

Leo Laporte Or maybe somebody else would sue them.

John Dvorak Yeah. Look what you – this thing you sold us, it stinks.

Leo Laporte So Monday – this is surprising that it took so long. How long did it take high school student DVD Jon to crack DVD CSS protection? Like a week? Like a month? It was almost instantaneous.

John Dvorak It was a while.

Leo Laporte Well, part of the problem is that in order for a player to work, it has to have the key. So these technologies are always going to be flawed because if you could just figure out where the key is stored there always has to be a copy of the key in the clear in order to playback the DVD or the Blu-Ray.

John Dvorak Yeah.

Leo Laporte So apparently this is kind of interesting, it was found on Monday or appeared on Monday in Pastebin. Gina, you must have used Pastebin. You know about Pastebin.

Gina Trapani I do know about Pastebin.

John Dvorak It’s just a place where you post stuff.

Gina Trapani Yeah, you usually use it to share code, code code.

Leo Laporte It’s actually been in the news a couple of times because I think there was a – if you search for Visa cards, you can find a bunch of Visa card numbers on Pastebin. People apparently use it to store their credit cards.


John Dvorak They do?

Leo Laporte Not a good idea.

Baratunde Thurston I’ve seen like dpaste used to share code snippets with people. I haven’t heard of this Pastebin.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Well, I think that’s what Pastebin is really for, is a quick way to share little code stickers.

Gina Trapani Yeah, it’s for open source coders in IRC channels who want to share code snippets without pasting it into the entire IRC channel. That’s like the original source of these kinds of sites but --

Leo Laporte And it’s completely anonymous.

Gina Trapani Right.

Leo Laporte So a great place to do something like share the HTCP code. It’s now mirrored on of course on hundreds of other websites. Let’s see, CSS was cracked in 1999. So you’re right, John. It did take a little while for DVDs to be cracked.

John Dvorak Yeah.

Nick Bilton How long did it take?

Leo Laporte Well ’99, when the DVDs come out?

Nick Bilton [Indiscernible] (23:40) ‘64, right?

Leo Laporte [Laughter] Yeah, 35 years ago.

Baratunde Thurston There was the Declaration of Independence, then DVDs, then the Constitution.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Let me see. I’m looking at a WIRED article from 1999 which announced the DVD crack. Where the title of it, Why the DVD Hack Was a Cinch, talks about this issue of the code being stored in the clear. Jon Johansen, the founder of MoRE in Norway, the high school kid who is now known as DVD Jon. He’s got actually a pretty good little product now called doubleTwist. He’s gone straight.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah. I mean DVDs came out in ’95.

John Dvorak What does doubleTwist do?

Baratunde Thurston They weren’t super popular that first year obviously.

Leo Laporte It took four years.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah.

Leo Laporte But Blu-Ray has been out longer than four years. So it took them a little longer. But you got to figure the MPAA and the motion picture folks and everybody said, they broke CSS so fast, we got to find something.

John Dvorak It’s not Blu-Ray has been out for a long time but this protocol is fairly new, the HTCP.

Leo Laporte Oh, you’re right, you’re right. HTCP --

John Dvorak That was just another --

Leo Laporte Isn’t the Blu-Ray protection, it’s a protection that keeps you from playing what comes out of the Blu-Ray player into a TV. In order to watch a Blu-Ray player on a TV, both devices have to be HTCP complaint.

John Dvorak Right. So they can steal the --

Leo Laporte So you can’t steal the analog hole.

John Dvorak Right.

Leo Laporte So I guess you’re right. It’s not as old as Blu-Ray.

John Dvorak In fact, HTCP I mean that’s what they claim is for but the fact of the matter is HTCP was invented just to add one more feature to a flat screen TV to make you have to buy a new generation of television. They made – they’ve done it – this about six times and they got a new one coming up. This is a scam.

Leo Laporte Pretty soon you’re going to have color TVs and then you’re going to have to buy another one.

John Dvorak It’s a scam.

Leo Laporte It’s a trap. No, I think you’re right. I’m being facetious. I think you’re right. It could well be not have – nothing to do with copy protection. It could have to do with requiring you to buy all new crap.

John Dvorak Yeah, there is another round of this coming too. There’s just something they just announced the other day. I can’t remember exactly what it was. Maybe one of you guys would know it. But it’s some other thing they’re going to add to these TVs, which will make you have to buy another TV.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Baratunde Thurston I’ll just use my computer. I am good.

Leo Laporte TVs are history

Nick Bilton Oh, they’re gone.

John Dvorak TVs are history.

Leo Laporte TVs are gone.

John Dvorak Tell that to Costco

Leo Laporte Well, you live in the future, Nick. Are there any TVs where you live?

Baratunde Thurston Yeah, you guys, I wish they could give a tour of his like living room setup. It is --

Nick Bilton Oh, it’s insane.

Leo Laporte Do you have a TV?

John Dvorak No, no TV.

Nick Bilton Well, I have a TV that is hooked up to a computer and then I have this wireless donut mouse. It like a chocolate donut and it’s got buttons on it. And then I have a wireless keyboard and we just use that. I mean we don’t have cable. We cancelled it over a year ago. And it works perfectly.

John Dvorak What are you running on to the TV?

Nick Bilton Sometimes Hulu, sometimes Netflix with proxy, sometimes just go to YouTube directly. I mean it’s just pretty much everything. It’s the web. It’s not --

Leo Laporte So you use your computer as the source. Not something like a Roku player or something like that?

Nick Bilton Well, I have a Roku player that I tested out. I also have – the other thing I actually do use quite a bit is the Xbox because --

Leo Laporte Yeah, it’s a good media device.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah, me too.

Gina Trapani Yeah, me too.

Nick Bilton It’s the best media device. And one of the greatest things about the Xbox is you can download any video format, put it on a USB stick, plug it into the Xbox and it immediately recognizes it and if it doesn’t, it goes and it gets the right format for it.

Leo Laporte Really? Yeah it’s a pretty powerful platform. It’s got three…

Nick Bilton Yep.

Leo Laporte So you – it’s interesting, all three Brooklynites use Xboxes for their media device.

Nick Bilton And you don’t want to use my --

Gina Trapani A mixture.

Baratunde Thurston I used to have dedicated Laptop running mostly Boxy fulltime. But then actually I loaned that laptop to a friend, so I’m reduced to Xbox only. So a lot of Netflix screening. I do have a cable service but I don’t – until very recently, I wasn’t actually watching much cable. I recently decided I’m going to start following British soccer football leagues and so it’s helpful to have actual cable to watch like Fox Sports or ESPN.

John Dvorak British soccer football leagues.

Leo Laporte How did a decision like that happen, Baratunde?

John Dvorak Man, yeah, really.

Baratunde Thurston The World Cup got me so amped about football.

John Dvorak Those games were rigged man, they’re rigged!

Baratunde Thurston And just being a part of like a community, I don’t know like English – world football is really exciting.

John Dvorak Oh, no, here we go.

Leo Laporte You need one of these, Baratunde.

[Sound Effect]

Baratunde Thurston So that’s why I watched – oh no, no, I’m not a fan of the vuvuzela. I’m not endorsing that.

John Dvorak You invited him to do that.

Leo Laporte That’s what you loved about the world cup. Admit it.

Baratunde Thurston No, I loved that they filtered it. The networks that filtered --

John Dvorak Oh, yeah, they did such a great job.

Leo Laporte You notice though it sounds more realistic when you have two of them playing at once than if you just have one.

Baratunde Thurston Why would – please don’t do that. Please don’t.

Leo Laporte Okay, in deference to you, Baratunde.

John Dvorak Play a song on it. If you can play a song --

Baratunde Thurston Why do you have two?

Leo Laporte I had three but my friend Scott Wilkinson --

John Dvorak Play taps.

Leo Laporte You can’t. You only can do two notes – two and a half notes on this. Scott Wilkinson who does our Home Theater – he’s the Home Theater Geek – does the Home Theater Geek podcast on TWiT, plays – is a wind instrument player. He says he could play anything without a read; any wind instrument out without a read. He plays the – I’ll tell you, he plays the Shofar which is a ram’s horn and he can play that. And so I sent him one and he said you know it’s actually pretty nice because it’s got a – it doesn’t cut your lip. So that’s a plus. So that’s a plus.

Baratunde Thurston Now that’s always a benefit. It doesn’t cause me to bleed.


Therefore I am endorsing this product.

Leo Laporte He says it can only play two, maybe three notes, b-flat and then an octave-up and then an octave-up. But I said well, how come a bugle can play taps but this – he said a bugle is much longer than this. This is too short because the bugle is wrapped around.

John Dvorak Yeah, it’s wrapped around.

Leo Laporte So this is he says really it’s just --

John Dvorak If it’s wrapped around it’d be this.

Leo Laporte Right, it’s a measure of how short the vuvuzela is. Aren’t you glad you asked about that?

Baratunde Thurston I feel bad about that. But I will say like going to the – using the web to help me find, like an English Premiership League to follow, I’ve gotten [indiscernible] (29:37) podcast. I’ve met new Twitter friends.

John Dvorak You’re un-American.

Leo Laporte No, he’s not.

John Dvorak Take away his passport, ladies and gentlemen.

Gina Trapani He’s a man of the world.

John Dvorak Someone in the chat room pointed something out. Oh, this is amazing. Hey, Dvorak, just remember, soccer is more watched than American football. Unbelievable!

Leo Laporte Umm, I don’t know. Actually I am with you, Baratunde. Baratunde I am with you. I watched the World Cup, I got excited too. I wanted more, I craved more.

Baratunde Thurston Yes. So I loved the idea of [Indiscernible] (30:02)…

Nick Bilton The World Cup was amazing.

Baratunde Thurston A bar at ten in the morning to watch a sport. Who couldn’t get behind that?

John C. Dvorak Who couldn’t fall asleep is the question I have.

Leo Laporte ‘And he shoots and nothing happens. And he goes out in the field [indiscernible] (30:15)…’

Baratunde Thurston Somebody take up a tech story, please.

Nick Bilton Actually, I just wanted to say with sports – so I wrote this piece for The Times a year ago. It was actually my first ever print story about ‘cancel my cable.’ And it immediately shot up to number one on the most emailed list for a week or so and was almost a million views. And the one thing I said was that you can’t get sports on your computer; and the way people were doing it for a long time was actually illegally through, where somebody would broadcast their channel. But you’re still really – I mean, you can get, you can pay $10 a month for that which is actually pretty good. And then you get Ultimate Wrestling. But other than that, you just can’t get sports unless you have cable TV or you go to a bar.

Leo Laporte I’d take “go to the bar”.

Nick Bilton I’d say “go to the bar” too. I refuse to give the cable company…

Leo Laporte So that’s interesting. So it’s now become – here’s by the way, this is pretty exciting.

John C. Dvorak This isn’t some sports, this is a dog playing soccer.

Leo Laporte A soccer-playing dog. This is – see, this is the great…

John C. Dvorak That’s soccer at its best.

Leo Laporte …the great entertainment you could get on TV.

John C. Dvorak This is more exciting than any soccer I’ve seen.

Leo Laporte Absolutely, absolutely.

John C. Dvorak These guys are bouncing off their noses, that would be more entertaining.

Leo Laporte I’m sorry. This is a – I’ve lost – completely lost control.

John C. Dvorak You’ve always lost control.

Baratunde Thurston Next story, let’s go to the Google Docs.

Leo Laporte And we go to the Google Docs. Baratunde Thurston, what is our next story?

Baratunde Thurston Out next story coming up, 4chan users crashed MPAA website in pro-piracy protest. Is this the future of community organizing and protest?

Leo Laporte Oh hell! Come on, first of all…

John C. Dvorak 4chan?

Leo Laporte 4chan – don’t say anything bad about 4chan.

John C. Dvorak I love those guys. They are the funniest guys in the world.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Nobody – this is 4chan. I noticed that.

John C. Dvorak No. You can’t take a chance.

Leo Laporte Oh we love 4chan.

John C. Dvorak We love you, 4chan. You are the best, you guys rock.

Leo Laporte But I have to say, that was big story, got a lot of attention. Can I ask you who cares if the MPAA site is down? They are going to keep it down for a day or two, is there anybody going there saying, oh, rats, I can’t…

Baratunde Thurston [Indiscernible] (32:03) the latest.

John C. Dvorak You’ve just done the world a favor.

Leo Laporte Yeah I mean…

Gina Trapani It was more symbolic than anything, right?

Leo Laporte It’s very symbolic.

Baratunde Thurston Most protests in real life, IRL protests, are symbolic. But they lead to grabbing enough attention with someone of power that they pay attention to your group. So I don’t know if that happened in – probably not, but in the 4chan-MPAA case, is there a stage two other than shutting down their website, or is this just flexing your muscles for 24, 48 hours?

Leo Laporte Is this – when they say it’s the anonymous group of 4chan, is that the same Anonymous that was going after scientology?

John C. Dvorak I don’t think so. You think so? I don’t think it was.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah they – one of the comments [indiscernible] (33:02) – so they used this tool, LOIC – I can’t – I just always think of Loic and Seesmic when I see that. But I don’t think he’s behind this.

Leo Laporte Poor Loic.

Baratunde Thurston It looks like the low orbit something – somebody in the chatroom knows this. Anyway, there’s a tool you can get off the SourceForge. And one of the comments was like, yeah, this works so well for the scientology process, now we’re going to take it to the MPAA and the RIAA et cetera.

Leo Laporte Right.

Baratunde Thurston Once again, I don’t have no idea how effective this is.

Nick Bilton Oh, it’s a joke to use.

Leo Laporte The Low Orbit Ion Cannon?

Nick Bilton It’s like – it’s freeware, you just download it, you type in the URL and then point it, and that’s it. You just start the DDoS. And if you get a few thousand people doing that, it doesn’t take long before that website is not going to work.

Leo Laporte Yeah, it’s pretty trivial really.

Nick Bilton Yeah. It’s – you don’t need to be a – you can be a code kiddie to do it. You don’t need to know anything.

Leo Laporte So I’m told that because it’s just Anonymous is what you’re called on 4chan unless you are one of the one in a million that says who you are at 4chan. It doesn’t – we can’t assume anything.

Baratunde Thurston Right.

Nick Bilton Well, there’s also the Anonymous website which kind of spun out of that and has a whole different slew of ethics, should we say.

Leo Laporte Like the hacker ethic?

Nick Bilton Well, have any of you guys been there to the Anonymous website?

Leo Laporte No. Shall I? Is it dangerous?

John C. Dvorak You’d probably be looked at by the FBI later about an hour, but go ahead and hit it.

Leo Laporte And is it

Nick Bilton It’s – is it – what – I forget what it is, actually, let me see.

Leo Laporte Well, I could probably Google anonymous. That will really help.

John C. Dvorak Jesus. Google anonymous.

Leo Laporte That didn’t help. Here it is. No, that’s not it.

Nick Bilton Let me see here.

Leo Laporte This is actually – this is…

John C. Dvorak Somebody says there’s no official anonymous website.

Leo Laporte This is that anonymous website which is the scientology anonymous, not the most distinctive name. Who is anonymous, why do we protest? They’ve got the V-masks because that’s what they wear when they …….

John C. Dvorak This is bull crap, this isn’t the real site.

Baratunde Thurston Remember, remember, the 5th of November.

Nick Bilton So if you go to…if you look up…

John C. Dvorak This looks like an Obama site.

Leo Laporte It’s the Obama blue.

Nick Bilton If you look at the ……..

Leo Laporte Did you see that by the way the reason Facebook is blue is because Mark Zuckerberg is color blind and it’s the only color he can see?

John C. Dvorak That’s bogus.

Leo Laporte He said it.

Baratunde Thurston I mean, I did read that. I’ll tell you like – if I could spin that to a briefly serious, super serious moment like, the idea that a site embodies the biases, abilities and beliefs of a single individual…

Leo Laporte One man?

Baratunde Thurston …so powerful, 500 million people inspired accidentally from their perspective by the limitations or beliefs or ideas of one person is truly amazing. I mean, I think it’s amazing in the full sense of the word, like as a good thing, as a horrible thing, as just a big thing. One guy’s limitations.

John C. Dvorak Have you ever heard of a one-color color blind type person, I’ve never heard of such a thing?

Leo Laporte Actually this …..

Baratunde Thurston One-color color blind. Somebody go to Wikipedia, let’s look this up.

Leo Laporte So the chatroom has given me the website. They say, don’t go to it. So I am going to say what the website is, but folks do not – listen to me – don’t – no, no, don’t go to it because you could get in trouble. It’s

Nick Bilton There you go, that’s it.

Baratunde Thurston Really, I am going right now.

Leo Laporte No, no, no!

Nick Bilton Be careful, you may see the things that…

Gina Trapani I am just going to watch Leo do that?

Nick Bilton …that will burn your eyes.

Leo Laporte It burns. It burns.

John C. Dvorak

Leo Laporte It’s actually pretty boring.

Baratunde Thurston That’s not so bad.

John C. Dvorak It’s boring? Are you criticizing it, Leo?

Leo Laporte No. I love 4chan. God bless them.

Nick Bilton It may look boring but what’s actually kind of scary is, these are all campaigns that they are putting together. And what they’ll do it someone will say, all right, let us – let’s go and get this person and they’ll go on there and people will just find everything about them, from their home address to the phone number, to the girlfriend and it all is just put on the site.

Leo Laporte Right. So is this the site that was used – you guys see it says here right now Project Target ACTA. Is this the site that was used to find that woman who dumped the puppies or the kittens or whatever that was, is this how they did that?

Nick Bilton I am not sure, but this was the site I believe that was used – it’s been used for some – what was the girl in Canada?

Leo Laporte Jessi, in fact she’s still on the front page.

Nick Bilton Oh, is she?

Leo Laporte Yeah. It’s a Wiki, so I guess it updates as needed.

John C. Dvorak Poor Jessi.

Leo Laporte Yeah. I feel bad for her. I mean first of all she has crappy parents but now they’ve got the Internet on her too.

Nick Bilton Yeah.

John C. Dvorak Partyvan dot what?

Baratunde Thurston Back to this theme of sort of…

John C. Dvorak Was it again, Leo, partyvan dot what?

Leo Laporte It’s, John.

Gina Trapani We’re totally getting Leo in trouble right now. Like, Leo, batten down the hatches man because you’re going to be on the front page of that site.

Leo Laporte Partyvan – no they wouldn’t go after us, would they?

John C. Dvorak No.

Leo Laporte Did I – have I said that I love – I mean, I love 4chan.

Nick Bilton

John C. Dvorak Well, when you are on the air, that’s what you say.

Leo Laporte Shut up, John. No I love Partyvan.

Baratunde Thurston I want to go back to this idea of technology companies strongly influenced by single personalities.

Leo Laporte Please. Thank you.

Baratunde Thurston Someone in the chatroom pointed out, they are like, well, Steve Jobs is that person.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Baratunde Thurston I can’t remember the name of the man who founded RealNetworks…

John C. Dvorak You brought the site down, Leo.

Leo Laporte Really? Shut up [laughter].

Baratunde Thurston We often hold up the Internet and the web its subset as this area where anyone can make a difference and we all have a say in the future of our worlds. But if you look at Robert Moses’ influence on New York City, or the Rockefeller’s influence on philanthropy and money, how much has the world changed in the age of the Internet which was supposed to empower anyone when the tool that 500 million people use is still highly defined just by one person, when Apple is still heavily micro-managed by Steve Jobs. You guys have thoughts about this? Did you cover that…

Leo Laporte I would submit that there’s a difference between Facebook and Apple. I think you have a choice whether you are going to buy or use an Apple product, right?

John C. Dvorak No.

Nick Bilton Don’t you have a choice whether you use Facebook?

Leo Laporte You do, but it’s not so much of a choice because all your friends are on it. There are these social compulsion component of Facebook that’s a little different I think than Apple. And that’s I think where its scary that Mark has so much power because if you won’t ……

Gina Trapani Peer pressure business model, yeah.

Leo Laporte Yeah. It’s more than even peer pressure, it’s a reason people used AOL and couldn’t leave, is because this is where you were, this is where your friends were. Facebook – I am convinced if something like DIASPORA came along – I don’t think it’s going to be DIASPORA but maybe Google Me came along and offered a choice, it wouldn’t be the issue that it is. But there isn’t a choice right now, is there?

Nick Bilton Well, Twitter is the closest thing. But I mean, that actually brings up something else. I’ve got an email from Twitter today about some new updates and this one out to their 150 million and they are talking about [indiscernible] (39:41) and URL wrappers and things like that, they are not reaching the mainstream audience that Facebook is because they …

Leo Laporte Right.

Nick Bilton I think it’s still programmers talking to people like they are programmers.

Leo Laporte What do you think of the new Twitter?

Baratunde Thurston I love New Twitter. I blogged about it.

Gina Trapani I do too.

John C. Dvorak I turned it off.

Baratunde Thurston I linked to Gina’s blog about it.

Leo Laporte Yeah, Gina wrote a nice post on….

Baratunde Thurston Great post, wonderful, beautiful screenshots. I am a fan for a couple of reasons. I think there are some shortcomings, I think part of – there are multiple Twitter windows on your iPhone, on your Android , your iPad, on the web and they don’t all do the same things.

Nick Bilton I agree with that.

Baratunde Thurston Some support new re-tweets only, some don’t support old re-tweets, some show you how many re-tweets you’ve had, others don’t, so they haven’t synced the functionality across all these platforms yet. But…

Nick Bilton Or the user interface…

Baratunde Thurston …I love when people do beautiful things on the web and don’t force you to download some proprietary platform-specific client, so I saw this as a real win for people who are fans of the web and not just the Internet.

Gina Trapani Yep.

Baratunde Thurston People who are fans of non-apps. So like, yeah, I can use keyboard shortcuts to navigate this like in Gmail, that was one of the gist of Gina’s post, and I didn’t even know about those…

Leo Laporte I know, J, K works, I can’t believe…

Baratunde Thurston That was a beautiful thing, so the fact that I can move at nearly, as swiftly and have these embedded media experiences through a web browser, just reminds everybody like yeah, you guys are all like programming specifically and putting publishers through this burden of upgrading and sort of itemizing their development plan for platform A versus B versus Z, when we have this universal platform called the web and the Internet that is capable of so much, so I thought that it was an investment in a more open platform in a more open experience and I really do applaud them for that part of it.

Leo Laporte Gina, you wrote a great article on about the new Twitter page; you agree, why do you like it?

Gina Trapani I love it. I think it’s just a beautiful well executed web app that you get in your browser. For all the same reasons I think they did a really, really nice job of creating the sort of like new – I think there is this new generation of web apps that are very influenced by the kind of – by the iPad actually which is kind of ironic, you know the flow, being able to scroll down the infinite scroll, the tap and expand panels, even the screen resolution you can tell it’s just , I don’t even have an iPad, I can tell the Twitter web app works really well on the iPad. And you know I don’t think that we’ve seen a really innovative web app since really Gmail, and when I looked at Twitter I was really excited about it but you know Alex Payne who used to work at Twitter is no longer there, wrote a great post which is in the show notes. And he noted, this is something I had noticed, he said that he felt like the new Twitter is great, but that there is a lot of room there for ads…

Leo Laporte Yeah, there is a lot of free space where you can put some ads.

Gina Trapani A lot of free space for ads, so that’s interesting, that is interesting, but you know I think it really surfaces lot of metadata that you get in tweets the people that are mentioned, the location, the links that really were hidden before, and the keyboard shortcuts are awesome. Those keyboard shortcuts I mentioned in my post that they are like Gmail, those actually originated in VI and that’s why Gmail uses them…

Leo Laporte Oh no. It’s VI baby.

John C. Dvorak I’m not such a big fan.

Nick Bilton The one thing that’s really interesting is that the search is at the very, very top and every time they do a redesign the search box gets bigger and more affluent and they are becoming a search company, I mean they are completely…

Leo Laporte As it should, by the way, that’s the best part, isn’t it…

Nick Bilton That’s the best part, yes. I mean that’s what you find…

Leo Laporte All right, I’m going to throw out a curb ball now, I think it’s a bad idea because why did Twitter succeed, in fact where Twitter’s growth is happening by the way almost entirely now is with unsophisticated younger people, look at the video music awards, the VMAs last weekend going, oh, there is a million tweets now about Lady Gaga, that’s what I think that’s where most of the new traffic is. These, look we – maybe not John, but we like this new Twitter, but they are not going to like this new Twitter you think. Isn’t it…

Nick Bilton I don’t think they use it. I mean I think that, they are using their BlackBerrys, a lot of,…

Leo Laporte Oh! Interesting.

Nick Bilton …part of the reason that there was, I forget where I read this but part of the reason that you are seeing this rise of if you want to call it unsophisticated tweets is because it’s partnerships that Twitter’s done with BlackBerrys and Sprint and so on where you know low income people are getting, they are getting BlackBerrys and it comes on there and it’s like a part of the package that they get automatically, and I think that that’s kind of changing things a little bit.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I actually had to change the trends that I was following from United States to San Francisco because the trends in the United States, like the number one trend right now on Twitter in the United States is because “I’m a gangsta”…

Gina Trapani Because we are not the majority on Twitter.

Leo Laporte We are no longer – well we used to be, we are not anymore. Are we Gina?

Baratunde Thurston I mean that happens to every community, you get super, every tech community but probably every type of community physically as well…

Leo Laporte Well, if you’re successful, right?

Baratunde Thurston On the web you get, you know the early tech geeks and you get the later tech geeks, people who follow the later tech geeks, and then you get the population, you get the country and in certain cases you get the world, and you see the different languages starting to show up and well, this isn’t the place that I found that was like home, but it’s because it’s becoming more successful and part of the price of success is diversification.

Leo Laporte Do we have to get the tech early adopters to start and then they get blown away to somewhere else while the real people come in, is that what happens?

Nick Bilton That’s what happens with every platform. I mean, look at the tech people that were – I mean with the exception of Facebook where it was a college platform at first, but I think that’s what happens with every platform, I mean you get the nerds that go on that first and then…

Leo Laporte All Twitter is doing right now to me is making me feel so out of touch, I don’t know what any of these trending topics are.

John C. Dvorak And there is no reason for you to have to know, this is the one…

Leo Laporte Larry Johnson, ihaveafriend, Interception, TeAmoBieber, Field Goal…

Nick Bilton Can you tell us why you are a gangster?

Leo Laporte I am a gang – well, let’s see, okay, let me just click that why I’m a gangsta and see because I run with sharp – oh, Lady Gaga actually participated in this.

Gina Trapani Well, that’s about…

Leo Laporte Yeah, I put that on the, yes, re-tweeting Lady Gaga, AndoSuperPants said I’m a gangsta because I ate Kool-Aid with a spoon straight out of the pack, says AndoSuperPants. These are the –

Nick Bilton I’m a gangsta because I have a dog name Pixel. What’s up with that?

Leo Laporte You are gangsta? Would you tweet that, Nick Bilton?

Baratunde Thurston I will tell you what, like Nick has a dog named, what’s your cat’s name Nick?

Nick Bilton Hip Hop because she’s got three legs and she bounces when she walks.

Leo Laporte Hip hop is a gangsta.

Baratunde Thurston I know someone who has a…

Nick Bilton Yes, she is totally gangster.

Baratunde Thurston A cat named Pika.

Leo Laporte Pika?

Baratunde Thurston And the web designer at The Onion, her animals are…

Leo Laporte Let me guess, Helvetica?

Baratunde Thurston No, no, but it’s M and Dash.

Leo Laporte That’s good.

Nick Bilton That’s awesome.

Baratunde Thurston Dot M dash, which is beautiful.

Nick Bilton That’s just fantastic.

Gina Trapani That is great.

John C. Dvorak Oh please. ‘That’s beautiful, that’s beautiful.’

Leo Laporte ‘That’s a beautiful thing.’

John C. Dvorak ‘It’s a name, yes, M Dash, I get it.’

Leo Laporte Sorry, go ahead.

Nick Bilton Back to the Twitter redesign, one of the things that I noticed that was incredibly frustrating is with every, like as Baratunde said with app and every website that Twitter puts out it’s got a different UI, and it’s got to be a tremendous amount of work for them to have an Android or BlackBerry, an iPhone, iPad, website, mobile site as we are all trying to do these days, when is this going to – when are we going to narrow this down, like when is this going to let up?

John C. Dvorak That’s a good…

Leo Laporte When is what going to let up, all the third-party apps?

John C. Dvorak No, all the different look and feels.

Baratunde Thurston All the different interface, I mean, it’s true as you log in through device A and you get experience one, you log into device B you are going to experience two…

Leo Laporte Well I’m sure this is why Twitter is taking this huge risk of pissing off…

John C. Dvorak Me.

Leo Laporte The third-party application developers who made Twitter in the first place…

Baratunde Thurston Yeah.

Leo Laporte And saying we’ll take it from here guys, I mean that’s kind of pissed them off a little bit.

John C. Dvorak This is why I don’t like the new Twitter.

Leo Laporte Why John?

John C. Dvorak It takes up the whole screen, I don’t, you know, it throws a bunch of crap at me I don’t want, I use Twitter casually, I’m not wed to Twitter like people who are on Facebook 24X7.

Leo Laporte Well this is what I’m saying…

John C. Dvorak And that’s what it says to me.

Leo Laporte Well, this is what I’m saying and this is a little, and I’m sure Twitter, [indiscernible] (48:04) know this, it’s is a little bit of a risk to take something that really succeeded because of it’s plain simplicity.

Baratunde Thurston Simplicity, yes.

Leo Laporte And make it so complex, and I think that they may have been listening a little bit more to the geeks like us about design and content than they ought to have, but we’ll see, we’ll see, I have been wrong about Twitter before.

Gina Trapani I mean the good news is you don’t even have to expand the panel for a Twitter to be useful, you can just look at the left column and you still get that plain…

Leo Laporte True. True.

Gina Trapani …listed tweets that you always got.

Leo Laporte Right. I guess they did that essentially, yeah, you are right.

Baratunde Thurston They did kill my wallpaper though. I had to like…

Gina Trapani They did.

Baratunde Thurston ..vastly simplify that because I have about 30 to 60 pixels of space left on my laptop screen to see non tweet data and imagery, so that was.

Leo Laporte That’s why my wallpaper is now and has always been since day one on Twitter just a lawn, it’s just a lawn. So…

Baratunde Thurston Just a lawn?

Leo Laporte Yes, so I can say ‘get off my lawn!’

Baratunde Thurston So if I could, Leo let me know if you mind if I did, I’d like to skip to the next tech story.

Leo Laporte I’ll tell you what, why don’t we hold on for a moment so that I can do a commercial. What is the next tech story going to be Baratunde Thurston?

Baratunde Thurston We’re going to talk about the new app.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I don’t know anything about this but we are on and I know Nick wrote an article on it.

Baratunde Thurston Yes, I think Nick will have some fun things to say about this.

Leo Laporte All right. I’m very interested what’s going to happen especially since YouTube this week tested streaming as well, video streaming is going to – and something we have been doing for a couple of years now, is suddenly going to be I think a very big deal.

Baratunde Thurston Yes.

Leo Laporte But before we do that, ladies and gentlemen, I’d certainly like to talk about my friends at Carbonite and Carbonite Pro, you do backup, you do backup don’t you? If you are a business, this kind of stuns me, how many businesses, small businesses do not backup their data, if you are a business, think about what it would mean if your – all your data, all your computers got lost, all your data was gone, how long would it take you to get back online? A mighty long time. You might be even out of business by the time everything got rebuilt. Where are you going to get that, from the paper spreadsheets? This is why I think it’s so important to have a good backup strategy. And a good backup strategy has to have a couple of very important features; one, I think it’s got to be automatic. If you’re not backing up automatically, it’s not going to happen. You can’ take – trust your employees to always do those backups. If you are not backing up in the cloud, you’re running a risk because what if the business burns down. Carbonite has been used in fact by a lot of businesses because it’s an online automatic backup system that’s very reliable, Windows and Mac, 128-bit SSL, so it’s even on an open access point it’s secure, plus they have AES 256-bit encryption.

In fact, what happened is Carbonite found out that several hundred thousand of its consumer users were small businesses, they said, well maybe we got to do something for business, that’s where Carbonite Pro came from. Carbonite Pro, right now for Windows only. It is a truly amazing solution which we use here. We looked at all the other ways of doing offside backup, there was nothing more affordable, more effective or easier to use than Carbonite Pro, I’m very happy to say. You pay only for the storage you need. You don’t pay for seats, you can have as many users as you want. I’ll give you – it starts at $10 a month that gives you 20 gigabytes of storage. If you’ve got, let’s say, you’ve 8 desktops in your office, small business like mine, 8 desktops, each storing about, I don’t know, 5 gigabytes worth of storage, that’s $25 a month automatic backup. There is no individual licensing fee. There is no set-up fee. There is no hardware to buy. No training. You go around, you put it on all the computers, they start backing-up from then on. Users can restore their own files if you set it up that way. I like that feature. It’s just simple. You have a centralized dashboard so you know exactly which computers are backed up. Works for Windows XP, Vista, Widows 7 32-bit and 64-bit, Windows Server 2003, 2008 as well. And I just think this is a great solution. I want you to try it free for 30 days. Go to I’m a big support of Carbonite. They just got named the fastest growing IT services company in the U.S. for this year. The ninth fastest overall, the privately-held companies overall in the U.S. And there is a reason – it’s good. Give it a try today. We thank them so much for their support of this WEEK in TECH.

Nick Bilton What happened to John?

Leo Laporte He went out to try to convince Twitter to change to the old – wait a minute, here he comes.

Baratunde Thurston I love the idea that he would do that. He just gets in his car…

Leo Laporte ‘I got to go get my car, got to Twitter.’

Baratunde Thurston Driving to Soma.

John C. Dvorak I’m not here. I’m out of here.

Leo Laporte He got himself a fine – was that an IP – a screwdriver. What are you doing there? What are you doing? Stop it. Put that down. He got – it looks like a fine IPA beer there.

John C. Dvorak Yeah.

Leo Laporte That’s good. Would you – wait a minute – wait a minute. Weren’t we going to open up that Leoville now?

John C. Dvorak Too late now.

Leo Laporte Al right, have a beer.

Baratunde Thurston Yeah, you guys talked about Leoville last time.

Leo Laporte Gina, we were going to give you cupcakes for your birthday Gina, I don’t know what happened.

Gina Trapani So sorry. My house is in the cloud, it doesn’t street address –

Leo Laporte Isn’t that funny? She doesn’t have a street address?

John C. Dvorak Send her this.

Leo Laporte Is that in LifeHacker? Is that a thing that you set up, you know, like, no I don’t have a street address…

Gina Trapani You know, Internet personality, personnel mailbox, no Sunday delivery. Sorry guys.

Baratunde Thurston I never give up my street address. I have a mailbox to this company called Earth Class Mail where you send all your stuff and they scan it.

Leo Laporte That’s smart.

Baratunde Thurston So you can log in from anywhere in the world and see the outside of the envelope, tell them to scan it, some will recycle it, some will shred it, and so it’s – so if you are…

Gina Trapani I mean – I trust Leo, I would totally give Leo my street address if I had one. I just – I really literally don’t.

Leo Laporte I think you’re making a mistake there Gina because I would in fact stalk you.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, I would be careful.

Baratunde Thurston I actually do have a home though, so I’ll…

Gina Trapani Leo is my man.

Leo Laporte You know, I’d be honest with you. We give out the address, there’s people sitting here right now, I don’t know where – there is some people from Spain, people from all over just show up.

John C. Dvorak There are two people from the CIA sitting over here.

Leo Laporte CIA sitting over here. And there are some 4chan guys picketing out-front. So I live in – I don’t – I live without fear. I feel that that is, you know…

Nick Bilton I give out my street address. I have a three-legged cat named Hip-Hop who’s packing heat, because I’m a gangsta.

Leo Laporte He is a gangsta.

John C. Dvorak He’s going to get and laugh with that three-legged cat thing if it’s the last thing he does.

Leo Laporte You know he hops because he only has three legs.

John C. Dvorak I’m getting it, yeah.

Leo Laporte Yeah, get it?

John C. Dvorak Ah ha.

Leo Laporte Wait, wait – we just – do that some more Nick, you were dancing and we missed it.

Nick Bilton I was hopping.

John C. Dvorak There he goes.

Nick Bilton Because I’m a gangster, that’s just how I roll.

John C. Dvorak Gangsta.

Nick Bilton Gangster.

Leo Laporte All right. So back to the story.

Nick Bilton Yes. So they – you guys all familiar with how it all started, I’m sure. Right?

Leo Laporte Yeah, in fact we are on right now. If you go to while we use three different services, the front page is

John C. Dvorak I was wondering how the cat lost its leg.

Leo Laporte Oh stop it.

Nick Bilton It was born that way, John. It had an accident with a screwdriver, so.

Leo Laporte It’s actually like these differently-abled jelly beans I have here, the Belly Flops they call them. Are you doing dental work on the show? Should never. So Nick, yeah, so it started with some guy, was it Justin, he was like he wore a camera all the time.

John C. Dvorak Oh yeah, he used to wear the camera constantly.

Nick Bilton He used to have a Sony laptop in his – one of those super-thin ones in his bagpack and then he had a little camera on his hat and he videotaped everything and some pretty mundane things that you probably wouldn’t want to watch. And then there was the pranks too when people were trying to mess with them and they sent parties to and the cops to – pizza, sorry, to and the cops to a party and things like that. But then what's happened really recently which is fascinating with is they’ve been trying to – they’ve been trying to fight piracy. And what you have is because there is no live TV on the web yet, it’s still – everyone is still working that out is that people will stream the VMAs and the Emmys and sport shows and it’s become almost like a game of Whac-A-Mole for the guys where they have to try to put these shows out before they rise up.

John C. Dvorak Really? You know, I don’t want to interrupt you, but that reminds me I think there was some guy, I can’t remember who it was but he was at one of the Apple announcements and he had his laptop and he was like shooting pictures of the Apple announcement. The next thing you know they threw him out.

Leo Laporte They did not throw me out.

John C. Dvorak Oh, it was you?

Leo Laporte And it wasn’t illegal. There was nobody said not to do it. There was no sign that didn’t say – that said…

John C. Dvorak You’ve been blackballed.

Leo Laporte Well there was no – there were cameras, there was a roll of cameras behind me doing it. So I thought what the hell, I open up my laptop and now I can’t get invited to an Apple event to save my life. Who cares? Go ahead Nick, forget it.

Nick Bilton Send Steve Jobs some cupcakes, maybe that will solve it.

Leo Laporte No, no…

John C. Dvorak I think it would be solved by Nick getting on the case and writing it up in The New York Times.

Leo Laporte No. no. he – Steve is an airatarian, he only eats air, he doesn’t eat food. So you can’t send him that.

Nick Bilton So now – so now we have – we have the mobile apps. So they’ve launched the Android app I think about a month ago and they finally launched the iPhone app. And they’re really trying to encourage people to broadcast live, but what's fascinating…

Leo Laporte But Nick, doesn’t everybody do this? Doesn’t USTREAM do this? Doesn’t – I mean everybody does this, right?

Nick Bilton Yeah, they do. I think what is trying to take advantage of is the current community that they have, right. So people like you that are....

Leo Laporte Wait a minute. Look, there we are on the front page. Look who is on the front page, it’s Nick Bilton. Nick Bilton talking without…

John C. Dvorak Put the camera back on me.

Leo Laporte That’s cool, Nick. You are a star. Looks just like you.


John C. Dvorak Put a pretty face on.

Leo Laporte Nobody is going to – I’ll be honest with you, okay, here is the things you can choose from – Mudtrucktv, Funkwares, Projectleet, X4ryuusei or Nick. It’s a picture of Nick. Nick, I really – if I were you, I would use that as your avatar, including the TWiT part. Right there, that looks good.

John C. Dvorak That’s terrible.

Nick Bilton That’s it. I’m going to do it for a week on the new Twitter.

Leo Laporte I’m sorry, we’ve been really, really rude to you and Baratunde.

John C. Dvorak Of course.

Leo Laporte So go ahead and please continue.

Nick Bilton So well, the thing that’s interesting, so, okay, so they – people have been doing this USTREAM, so on and you know we’ve seen Scoble run with cameras streaming everything, birthday parties, tech events, but I think the thing that Justin is trying to take advantage of is the community. But what I think is really fascinating is it’s going to bring up a whole slew of copyright questions as more companies do this because, let’s just say, that of course I can’t stream directly the VMAs, but, let’s just say, that Baratunde is standing next to my TV…

Leo Laporte Right. Right.

Nick Bilton …and the VMAs are on, what's the rule there?

Leo Laporte This is – this has come up in a number of situations.

John C. Dvorak It must be shocking.

Leo Laporte Remember athletes were instructed during the Olympics, the Winter Olympics in Vancouver, to be very careful about tweeting results, certainly not streaming video even from behind the scenes because the rights to this have been sold. And even a backstage stream is an infringement.

Nick Bilton Yeah.

Leo Laporte I think – you know, you ask me, fantastic. It breaks down the whole – it breaks down the whole seedy structure of backroom deals. It opens up everything to the public, so breath of fresh air. And this is why I love doing what we do. Now, do you think Justin will be shutdown by people who don’t like it this ability to stream via phone in everybody’s pocket?

Nick Bilton I don’t know. It’s a great question. I mean it brings up so many interesting questions around – I mean one of things with – still I have a chapter in my book about like the next 10 years and I went and I spoke to all these cyborgs and I said – and these are people that are literally recording…

Baratunde Thurston I’m sorry, could you clarify that?

John C. Dvorak Cyborg?

Nick Bilton Cyborgs.

Baratunde Thurston You spoke to cyborgs?

Leo Laporte We do not like to be called cyborgs? We prefer little people. Who are cyborgs? People walking around with the cameras on their head?

Nick Bilton Yes, Steve Mann for example, right.

Baratunde Thurston Did you speak to a T-888 or T-1000, like what does that mean?

Leo Laporte T-1000.

Nick Bilton Like a real deal cyborg, so you’ve got – so Steve Mann right, so he has got, he records, he has got these glasses that record everything, he has got like wires plugged into his head, he has got a little waist computer.

Leo Laporte You know what the problem though Nick, I got to tell you that’s boring as we learned from Justin.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, Justin’s moved on.

Nick Bilton The thing that freaked me out about the whole encounter with Steve was that he – I was being recorded right, and the only way to not to be recorded was to run in the other direction.

Leo Laporte Right. That’s interesting.

John C. Dvorak You can punch him out.

Leo Laporte No, that’s interesting, although…

Nick Bilton Then I would be recorded.

Leo Laporte If, I mean as somebody will point out…

John C. Dvorak Give him one to the groin before he does anything and then you can deny all…

Leo Laporte We have viewers in England who point out that you can’t walk downtown in London without being recorded in multiple cameras.

Nick Bilton Yeah, the CCTVs over there are...

Leo Laporte Everywhere.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, they are all over New York too.

Leo Laporte Welcome to the modern world, I mean we have seen the movies where there is a guy watching every street corner, I think that that’s just, that’s practically here. But you are right, I mean if I walk in the room as I have, by the way I have done this Nick, not as a cyborg, but the coverage stuff. I walk in the room with cameras and you definitely get a mix of reactions.

Nick Bilton Oh, yeah, I tried to interview, I mean I tried to interview people with a video camera at certain times and they get freaked out but with a tape recorder they fine. But you know maybe that’s generational or change in the next few years, but I think what’s scary for me and I am – I am all for the internet and the future and I am extremely positive about everything as I have written in my book and on the Times blog, but the fact that you can’t delete that, once you’ve had – once I spoke to Steve Mann, that was it, it was there that I spoke to him. There was no way for me to take that away.

John C. Dvorak Don’t speak to him anymore.

Nick Bilton Don’t speak to him anymore, exactly. But now when you get this apps and things like that, I think it brings up interesting questions like can you go – can I call up and say, hey I showed up on one of your cameras, can you take me off? No. It’s there.

John C. Dvorak Google does that. They’ll let you take, expurgate certain things that they have recorded by their Beetles.

Leo Laporte Once you walk around in the world with a camera and light in a tripod and a staff and you visit people with this thing, you really see – we went – I went backstage with a camera like this at Diggnation, South by Southwest this past spring and it is very interesting, and these are savvy, media savvy young people, to see the reaction. The security guard really hated it.

John C. Dvorak I bet it.

Leo Laporte He really hated it.

John C. Dvorak He was moonlighting, he probably wasn’t allowed to…

Leo Laporte Well may be. I didn’t think of that.

John C. Dvorak That’s why they don’t let you to record stuff in Vegas. Should drop into the one of the casinos and wander around with one of those…

Leo Laporte Yeah, you can’t do that. And you learn very quickly what you can do and what you can’t do.

Baratunde Thurston What happens in Vegas is supposed to stay there, but not with live streaming.

Leo Laporte Right.

Gina Trapani Yeah, the Chargers game was blacked out here in San Diego and people really were really upset this weekend and one of the things that the local news actually recommended was like pointing your Skype – pointing a Skype video camera at the game [indiscernible] (63:08) where it wasn’t blacked out.

Leo Laporte What, really?

Gina Trapani Yeah, yeah, like on the local news they are like, well [indiscernible] (63:11) if it was blacked out within a 75 mile radius, it was like if you know somebody in the outer county, have them turn on the game and then point their eyesight at the game and Skype them so you can watch it.

Leo Laporte That’s awesome!

Gina Trapani Isn’t it so funny? And I think sites like kind of let people do the same thing, for sports events and blacked out content. And how do you – well, I suppose in the case of it’s easy to get that stuff pulled, right? But in the case of like Skype, a private Skype video call…

Leo Laporte You can’t. I tell you, you go to a rock concert these days and everybody’s got their phone held up either playing the music to their friends which can’t sound very good or video…

John C. Dvorak Or neither can the video, can’t look very good either.

Leo Laporte But we are getting better and better. It’s hard, I mean look at this, iPhone 4 probably does pretty good video and streams pretty well in I think we are going hi-def, we are getting very close to hi-def in everybody’s pocket all the time.

John C. Dvorak Have you seen the video by the way of Walt Mossberg playing the Chatroulette as a puppet?

Baratunde Thurston No, I might have missed that.

John C. Dvorak Just wondering.

Leo Laporte It’s not the Walt Mossberg.

John C. Dvorak Oh, it’s the puppet.

Leo Laporte It’s Walt Mossberg puppet. There is a difference. That’s Brian Haig who actually does a parody.

John C. Dvorak I thought there was Walt Mossberg to be honest.

Leo Laporte Really, did you really? You’ve seen my puppet?

John C. Dvorak Yeah, you have got a puppet back there.

Leo Laporte I have a puppet, the same guy Brian, Brian built that one.

John C. Dvorak He looks – that puppet looks a lot like Scoble.

Leo Laporte Nick, I mean this is obviously what’s happening.

Nick Bilton Yes.

Leo Laporte And I think that it’s one of those things – I will tell you what, I have a really interesting challenge with this show, last week for instance we were talking about Tina Fey and Justin Bieber and I ran – it’s a new show, I ran a small clip from Saturday Night Live off YouTube of Tina Fey and Justin Bieber, we posted that show on YouTube this week and it was pulled, YouTube’s automatic content discovery system flagged it as a copyright violation…

John C. Dvorak It was fair use.

Leo Laporte I believe it’s fair use. There is in fact, we have an article if you look on the rundown about this, there is a process but it’s not a very good process. We have talked to our lawyers, I don’t exactly what to do about it.

John C. Dvorak How many lawyers do you have?

Leo Laporte A whole firm.

Baratunde Thurston So here’s a – this is a perfect segue, Leo, to another story in our queue.

John C. Dvorak Hooray!

Baratunde Thurston From

Leo Laporte That’s it.

Baratunde Thurston We have a great story about – the title is YouTube versus Fair Use and essentially this blog is a really interesting job of sort of documenting – when YouTube got popular, a lot of it was on the backs of copyrighted material and they said, look we have a lot of legitimate material as well, so you can’t shut us down completely. But they also promised to copyright holders that they will be working on a solution…

Leo Laporte And they did.

Baratunde Thurston And they released a system called Content ID which allows them to very quickly identify the audio or video or both when some else’s work is being uploaded by a random user and then the publisher has the choice of block it altogether, track it to just get usage stats or to monetize it. But this writer who was – I can’t get his name off the [indiscernible] (66:20) – Jeff Atwood.

Gina Trapani Jeff Atwood.

Leo Laporte Yeah, Gina knows him.

Baratunde Thurston Jeff Atwood’s writing in detail about – first of all, he didn’t think they could actually build it. He thought that they would – this was just like a delay tactic for the courts, so like, yeah, yeah, we’ll monitor this, we will give you reports, blah, blah, blah. But it turns out that it works. And so within an hour of posting something, you will find as a YouTube user that they’ve flagged your stuff and have warned you that you need to take this down. So you found that out Leo, I mean you got – we talked about this with the Onion a couple of months ago.

Leo Laporte That’s right, same thing happened with the Onion. And that wasn’t your – that was the Onion’s choice, right?

Baratunde Thurston No, no. And we didn’t, we weren’t – it’s a YouTube system where they have, like, we’re going to go out of our way to be friendly to copyright holders and send warnings to users and hopefully they will meet in the middle of somewhere that isn’t too onerous. But like Gina, your This Week in Google, like what do you think about the Fair Use versus YouTube? I mean YouTube’s supposed to liberate all of us, but it also seems to be shackling us with maybe a mild bit of overreach in terms of a fair use implications of clipping audio and video.

Gina Trapani I’m kind of amazed that they actually made the system that does this so quickly…

Leo Laporte Remember Napster, Napster was told by the courts – this goes way back to Napster, they were told by the court you need to come up with a way to flag copyrighted content and Napster’s defense was, it can’t be done. YouTube’s done it.

Gina Trapani And of course Google did it, right. So when you file the dispute, how long is the response to the dispute?

Leo Laporte I don’t know because we haven’t heard yet.

Gina Trapani Okay.

Leo Laporte The Onion thing, I – so here’s the deal, I thing, the content flagging happens automatically.

Gina Trapani Right.

Leo Laporte That’s just done. And then as you said Baratunde, the copyright holders have three choices. I don’t think the one with the Onion was pulled down, was it John? I don’t think that was pulled down.

Baratunde Thurston No. I mean, we wouldn’t set – and for those who are just tuning in, we didn’t get this, so my job there is as web editor digital dude. So in theory I’m supposed to know about these things, but there is a lot of stuff that happens in the world. But in the general we wouldn’t have a default setting of like block you from citing us, like…

Leo Laporte No, this is good publicity, I ran a show…

Baratunde Thurston [Indiscernible] (68:28) of The Onion is not to like, stop people from talking about it, because it does not make a lot of sense.

Leo Laporte And it drives traffic.

Baratunde Thurston It would be to track to monetize, to monetize...

Leo Laporte Right. So in that case it wasn’t obviously NBC has a blanket selling, saying yank it. We got yanked immediately. I don’t know if we have appealed. I think my attitude is I want to appeal as a news organization, may be there is some debate over what a news organization can do, in this Coding Horror blog he does talk about the three tests for fair use, all of which – four tests, all of which I believe we satisfy.

John C. Dvorak Why don’t you read them so people know?

Leo Laporte Do you have them in front of you Baratunde? Because I don’t.

Gina Trapani Yeah, he asked four questions, I have them. Is the use transformative, is the source material intended for the public good, how much was taken and what’s the market effect? Those are the four questions that Jeff Atwood, this programmer, outlined.

John C. Dvorak Yes, meet one or four?

Gina Trapani I am sorry?

John C. Dvorak Do you have to meet one or four?

Gina Trapani He says four guidelines, so I think, I think all four.

Leo Laporte The court would look at those and would say, was the use transformative in the sense that we changed it in a way so that it’s not the same.

John C. Dvorak No, I think transformative in this case, because I have heard this lecture million times, it means that you are using it for a different purpose, you have transformed the reason for it’s use, in other words you are mocking it, it’s just something…

Leo Laporte Right, we are doing news coverage...

Baratunde Thurston You are not merely re-broadcasting…

Leo Laporte Got it. And that was the case, we were talking about Justin Bieber fame. We used a small clip, there was certainly no damage to the value of that clip by the use of it.

John C. Dvorak So what was number two again?

Gina Trapani Is the source material intended for the public good.

John C. Dvorak And so –

Leo Laporte It’s a news show.

John C. Dvorak Even if it’s humor, humor is the public good so you can make fun of something.

Leo Laporte So I think it’s pretty clear we satisfy those tests of fair use.

John C. Dvorak What was number three?

Gina Trapani How much was taken?

John C. Dvorak You didn’t take much. You took like nothing actually. And then the last one was – I am sorry?

Gina Trapani What’s the market effect?

Leo Laporte None.

John C. Dvorak It would be beneficial.

Leo Laporte Beneficial if anything.

John C. Dvorak Yeah. So yeah, you made all four.

Leo Laporte Now but a judge would say that, my lawyer says that.

John C. Dvorak I’d say it.

Leo Laporte But how do I get YouTube to say it? I think you can’t.

John C. Dvorak It’s automated. It’s a robot.

Leo Laporte It’s a robot. It’s a form. I don’t know what –

Baratunde Thurston It’s a robot with a feedback mechanism that Jeff Atwood – he contested this on at least basis three and four and found that the copyright owner rejected it without explanation.

Leo Laporte Right. They don’t – you’d have to actually take them to court.

Baratunde Thurston So they had the final say.

Leo Laporte You’d have to take them to court.

Gina Trapani You can file a dispute claim – I guess my issue is like, is the dispute resolved as quickly as the content is flagged or nearly as quickly and that can’t possibly be because obviously humans are involved –

Leo Laporte Well we have actual damages because we – that video was – TwiT show from last week was taken off of YouTube, not aired on YouTube that’s tens of thousands –

Baratunde Thurston Because of the SNL clip.

Leo Laporte Yeah, and that’s tens of thousands of views that we’ve lost.

John C. Dvorak You should sue them.

Gina Trapani This is like a two hour show and for five seconds you got pulled basically.

John C. Dvorak Sue them. Sue them. Sue them.

Gina Trapani That’s crazy. That’s crazy.

Baratunde Thurston And that’s Atwood’s point, he’s like look I wanted to quote this movie and a blog post about a whole bunch of things, it’s not my intention to rebroadcast the film, I am not trying to damage sales of the film. And as a media personality, as a journalistic function even if you’re not a journalist you’re performing a journalistic function that should be allowed and so YouTube’s – his fear was like, wow YouTube built this thing and it actually works really, really well and that has frightening implications.

Leo Laporte Larry Lessig has talked about a pendulum swing with copyright holders and certainly it swung very much in favor of copyright holders.

John C. Dvorak And it’s not swinging back that I can see.

Leo Laporte Well ironically the technology has swung and this is the story, has swung very much in the favor of public because yeah, you know the law is supporting and YouTube’s technology is supporting the copyright holders, but frankly the fact that I can post TWiT everywhere and it’s whac-a-mole to keep it down in the long run, technologies are on our side. So it’s a very interesting situation.

Nick Bilton It’s also ironic as Baratunde said, when YouTube was sold, I mean there was – I can’t remember, it was in the 20s or 30s of other video services that were out there at the time, and what – actually put YouTube and I’ve heard this from several people that were inside the company at the time, what put them on the map was the SNL clip...

Leo Laporte Right.

Nick Bilton ...from the – it was the...

Leo Laporte

Right. Dick in a box.

Nick Bilton Yeah – no, it’s the cupcake one, it was –

Baratunde Thurston Cupcakes. The Magnolia cafe…

Leo Laporte That’s right. That’s right. Yeah.

Nick Bilton They got – it got 5 million views on YouTube and they literally said, if that video hadn’t have happened there was absolutely no way that they would have been as big at the time as they were. So it’s – the irony is quite striking.

Leo Laporte Palpable I would believe.

John C. Dvorak Palpable, word of the day.

Baratunde Thurston I can taste it.

Leo Laporte I can taste it.

John C. Dvorak Talking about tasting it by the way, this coffee maker that I was ridiculing makes a heck of a good cup of coffee.

Leo Laporte Pretty good, isn’t it? Did they –

Baratunde Thurston Oh the one from last week at 175 degrees.

Leo Laporte Yeah, with a plunger.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, it’s astonishing.

Leo Laporte You saw that Baratunde?

Baratunde Thurston I didn’t see, I listened to it as I was walking around New York.

John C. Dvorak It’s delicious.

Leo Laporte So you actually listen to the show?

Baratunde Thurston Yeah I listen so...

John C. Dvorak Everybody does Leo.

Baratunde Thurston ...I was at – Debbie Stier who works at Harper Collins and is the editor from my book, she posted this on our tumbler, but I actually listen to TWiT in 2x on my iPhone.

Leo Laporte Yeah, that’s the way to listen. Because we intentionally make this show take twice as long as it ought to.

Baratunde Thurston I don’t have necessarily two hours, but I can go – Apple does a pretty good job of the –

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Baratunde Thurston Of doubling the speed without destroying the pitch of everybody’s voice.

Leo Laporte So Baratunde, this commercial is for you.

Baratunde Thurston I never relisten to the ones that I have been on, because that’s just weird.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I know I don’t either. Which means I never listen.

We’re going to take a little break and then it’s talk like a pirate day, so I am going to ask each of you to say – Gina makes a little fist, is that a pirate fist?

Gina Trapani Yes, the pirate fist.

Leo Laporte Right.

Nick Bilton Gina, do they have pirates in the clouds.

Gina Trapani They do floating by on these giant pirate ships.

Leo Laporte That’s where they all are now. That’s where they all are.

Gina Trapani Taking down the MPAA site as they go by.

Leo Laporte Yes. Did I say – have I said recently how much I love 4chan? Love them. And now I also love my Ford Mustang with the great Ford SYNC in it. And if you’re looking for a very reasonable priced car, that’s cute, fun to drive, gets great gas mileage, has the Ford SYNC in it. I got to tell you – there goes John, it was good you did that quickly enough. And actually as you say that I am going to change the lower third because it says dirve one today and I don’t mean it to be dirve one, I mean it to be drive one today. There you go. You could dirve it. You will love it so much, you’ll want to dirve it. The Ford Fiesta, take a look at it at your local Ford dealer, the new 2011 just came out. And EPA estimated 40 miles to gallon on the highway. No other compact car’s more fuel-efficient than the 2011 Ford Fiesta according to the EPA. It’s that great 1.6 liter Duratec Ti-VCT I4 engine, it’s peppy, it’s fun to drive. It has things like my Mustang has this too, and I love it, the Easy Fuel capless filter system. So I never have to open the cap I just pop open the thing and boom put the gas in pump, close it. The 4 inch multi-functional display with LCD screen and that’s where the SYNC is which means you can talk to your Ford. You can tell it to play a podcast. Play TWiT 266, it plays it for you. You can check the weather, movie listings, get turn-by-turn voice directions without having to purchase additional hardware. 911 Assist is great too, it’ll automatically, if they airbags are deployed, call 911 and feed it your GPS coordinates. This is kind of weird but it happened to me, even the first time it happened to me it was strange I have the new Droid X and on many Droid phones, it will read you your text messages, so a little alarm goes off and then in a very nice female voice my text messages are read to me, which is a little weird but great. Exterior design that just looks – well if you can see the image on the screen, it’s just too cute. Very kinetic. Feels great. Interior that looks cool has great features, including optional heated leather trimmed seats, the power shift 6 speed automatic transmission, Intelligent Access with a push button start which is great. I want you to take a look at the new Ford Fiesta. It is a hot car. I just really love it. I just love what Ford’s doing. They have really brought the pride back to Detroit. Drive one today the new Ford Fiesta at a dealer near you. And now ladies and gentlemen: John C. Dvorak.

John C. Dvorak I tried to make it look like a wipe.

Leo Laporte It was a wipe.

John C. Dvorak Yeah.

Leo Laporte I should have switched when you did that, I would look just like a wipe.

John C. Dvorak Yeah. So I have –

Nick Bilton John?

John C. Dvorak Yeah.

Nick Bilton So this is the first time we’ve actually met and I was warned, I heard that you are a somewhat of a curmudgeon but I have to say you’re a really nice lovable guy.

John C. Dvorak I am. It’s a known fact.

Leo Laporte Did people – seriously, Nick did people warn you?

Nick Bilton I have to admit, I got some tweets.

Leo Laporte People warned you to watch out for John?

John C. Dvorak That guy, he’s going to kill you.

Nick Bilton They said, he’s a grumpy one, be careful, you know.

Leo Laporte Really?

Gina Trapani I think that this is refreshing though.

John C. Dvorak Yes, especially working for the New York Times I have a grudge. I got to bring something up about the Ford thing, since you’re still – don’t want to belabor the commercial, but your car’s parked out there that hot red Mustang.

Leo Laporte Isn’t it pretty? Oh, I love my Mustang.

John C. Dvorak It’s look like a car that – no offence Leo, I don’t want to be mean about this, but this looks like a car that – what just happens when guys get older and then they get the young girlfriend and a Ferrari, you look like one of the – you look like a guy kind of going through a middle age, what’s that called –

Leo Laporte Crisis.

Gina Trapani The midlife crisis car.

John C. Dvorak Crisis. You look like a crisis. I am telling you stop embarrassing yourself and get a Fiesta.

Leo Laporte I probably should.

John C. Dvorak Seriously.

Leo Laporte Is that what you get after the midlife crisis? What do you drive, John, just out of curiosity?

John C. Dvorak Just the same Lexus I have always had. But beside the point, if I was going to buy a Ford right now I’d buy that Fiesta, that’s a cute car.

Leo Laporte I would too. You know what I test drive…

John C. Dvorak And it’s better for older people.

Gina Trapani Wow! Tough, tough crowd. I was about to say that John’s crankiness was refreshing, but no, not so much.

Leo Laporte No, not so refreshing.

John C. Dvorak No I’m just trying to get Leo so he doesn’t make himself look like a…

Gina Trapani So he doesn’t embarrass himself.

John C. Dvorak He’s got the – he got the – he’s probably just listening in to rap music as he drives around in that thing.

Leo Laporte Yeah, actually how did you know that?

Gina Trapani Leo, I bet you look damn good in that car.

Leo Laporte Thank you, Gina. Now all I need is a young girlfriend and I’ll be set

John C. Dvorak Flirt.

Gina Trapani I’m married.

Baratunde Thurston One of the best things I’ve ever done in my life, I rented a Dodge Shelby from Hertz. They have a very limited number of rental centers that will rent out these sports cars, there was a special occasion and I had this car and I drove it.

Leo Laporte Isn’t it fun?

Baratunde Thurston And it was beautiful.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Baratunde Thurston So I recommend everybody be irresponsible financially and do that once.

Leo Laporte You know I thank before I bought the Mustang, I did that.

John C. Dvorak You’re going to get a Ferrari, I heard that.

Leo Laporte I would like to a musty shellback.

John C. Dvorak Musty shellback. I’d like to get a musty shellback too I am telling you I need something. My back is killing me.

Leo Laporte A musty shellback. No I mean a Shelby Mustang, the 2011 – they took me on the test track at Ford with the 2011.

John C. Dvorak Why don’t you get that and end it all.

Leo Laporte That really is a midlife. I say it is not a midlife crisis, John it’s a second childhood.

John C. Dvorak GT40 is another opportunity for you.

Leo Laporte Yeah, the GT is nice. They still make those?

John C. Dvorak No they got the new one. They just came out with the new version of that old car.

Leo Laporte They did?

John C. Dvorak It’s hot looking.

Baratunde Thurston Yes, it’s – I think I said Dodge Shelby. I meant Ford Shelby.

Leo Laporte I know what you meant.

John Dvorak No, but you get this, the GT40, that is the hot rocket.

Baratunde Thurston Sorry about that.

Leo Laporte They made it again?

John Dvorak Yes, it’s a brand new version. It’s a 2010 I think.

Nick Bilton Speaking of…

Leo Laporte Oh, God. This is my next car.

John Dvorak Yes, there you go. There is your mid-life crisis.

Leo Laporte Holy Shmoly! That’s beautiful.

Nick Bilton Did you – speaking of things that you can actually touch, did you guys see the article on The Times today about Netflix beating Blockbuster with clicks, not bricks?

Leo Laporte No, what happened?

Nick Bilton Oh, it’s just interesting about how Blockbuster really could have owned this video space.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Nick Bilton I mean they really had it.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Nick Bilton And they just went after DVDs.

Leo Laporte Bye-bye.

John Dvorak They blew it.

Nick Bilton And had people walk in to the stores and blew it.

Leo Laporte Bye-bye.

Nick Bilton And I think what’s really even more fascinating that I haven’t really heard anyone discuss is I believe that Netflix is going to be the next kind of cable distributor to a certain degree and they are going to replace the cable companies because...

Leo Laporte Absolutely, they are going to do a-la-carte.

Nick Bilton Yes.

Baratunde Thurston I mean do you see they have cut interesting deal – I mean looking at The Guild and I was on a few weeks/months ago.

Leo Laporte You were on The Guild?

Baratunde Thurston No, I wasn’t on The Guild. I was on TWiT.

John Dvorak He was watching The Guild.

Leo Laporte Oh, yes.

Baratunde Thurston With...

Leo Laporte With Felicia.

Baratunde Thurston With Felicia Day.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Baratunde Thurston I was watching them and their strategy is really interesting. They have got interesting release windows through podcasts, the web...

Leo Laporte Right.

Baratunde Thurston Through Xbox, through Netflix. Netflix is certainly such a prime distributor of some digital video ...

Leo Laporte I think they are going to run into trouble. I’ll be honest with you. You’re right. It’s clear because they bought EPIX for almost $1 billion. They’re really moving in this ...

Baratunde Thurston Or access to the EPIX...

Leo Laporte Access. They didn’t buy EPIX. I am sorry. You’re exactly right. So even then, 1 billion is even more kind of stunning.

Baratunde Thurston Right.

Leo Laporte They are clearly moving towards doing more instant watch movies and fewer DVDs.

Baratunde Thurston Yes, that’s the only thing I pay for, is the instant watch, 9 a month.

Nick Bilton Oh yes

Leo Laporte Me too.

Nick Bilton That was the $1 billion transaction that they did a few weeks ago.

Leo Laporte Right.

Nick Bilton They even said it.

Leo Laporte It’s true.

Nick Bilton We’re replacing the money we spend on DVDs and the mail and replacing it in the servers and clicks.

Leo Laporte Yes, but I think there is a challenge ahead for them because for a couple of reasons. Now Hollywood may like this because streaming movies can’t be easily pirated whereas DVDs can. So they are probably promoting streaming. But I can tell you who hates this idea is the Internet service provider especially since they are also in most cases in the TV movie business. I am saying Comcast, to a lesser degree, Verizon, AT&T with U-verse. They also want to sell movies to you, and so I think that they are actually – they are not going to be very happy about this and I see a flaming war coming between the Internet service...

Baratunde Thurston Flame war.

Leo Laporte Flame war – call out the LOL squad. Call out 4chan. Between let’s just say Comcast and Netflix. And this is why the net neutrality battle becomes very important.

Nick Bilton Oh, yes.

Leo Laporte Now Google – it was interesting that they did this deal with Verizon because I think they also with Google TV really think that streaming TV is the future and a la carte TV and not cable companies.

Nick Bilton I think that the next generation of kids, they don’t think about time slots.

Leo Laporte Right.

Nick Bilton They think about URLs.

Leo Laporte Absolutely, TiVo started that.

Nick Bilton Yes.

Leo Laporte Because when I was...

Baratunde Thurston That was – I am sorry. Can I just pause for like – can we have a great sound byte moment?

Leo Laporte Yes.

Baratunde Thurston The kids, they don’t think about time slots. They think about URLs.

John Dvorak Damn kids, those crazy kids.

Leo Laporte But that’s – no – you’re right. That’s a very apt thing to say. I think he’s absolutely right.

Nick Bilton Well, and it’s interesting I wrote about when Conan was doing his – he was trying to get network, his audience doesn’t…

Leo Laporte They don’t…

Nick Bilton They don’t even know what time he goes on…

Leo Laporte They don’t care, right.

Nick Bilton Or he don’t.

John Dvorak He’s not on. Maybe that’s the reason.

Nick Bilton Yes

Leo Laporte Used to be – when I was growing up, you would watch a show, right. Remember that, uncle John, you’d…

John Dvorak Yes, when I was a kid…

Leo Laporte Ed Sullivan…

John Dvorak We used to hit the rocks…

Leo Laporte Sunday night.

John Dvorak And the way the spark flew is when that show was on.

Leo Laporte Sunday night, everybody watched. When I was a kid, so I did watch Disney. Grown-ups should all watch Ed Sullivan.

John Dvorak I watched the Mickey Mouse Club.

Leo Laporte And what you lose is that sense of national event when the Beatles play Ed Sullivan, for instance. But the truth is I think TiVo started that where people realized we don’t have to sit down in front of a TV at any particular time.

John Dvorak Time switching.

Leo Laporte Time shifting.

John Dvorak Shifting.

Gina Trapani Shifting.

Nick Bilton And this actually goes to another point which I wanted to point out earlier about the Apple TV and your cable television and so on. You know Steve Jobs stood up on stage when he presented the Apple TV and said customers only want Hollywood professional content. They don’t want Amateur Hour which is not true. The numbers show that people are actually consuming billions of videos on YouTube and Facebook every month that are created by people using their mobile phone and I think that that same concept of like not having a time slot with the things that your friends create and your loved ones and so on and then trying to put a time slot on this Hollywood content is just – it’s – it’s away from working that way.

Leo Laporte But here’s the irony. I am moving in the opposite direction. We started doing podcasts which you download whenever you want…

John Dvorak You find that peculiar, don’t you?

Leo Laporte Yes, whenever you want it and now I think the problem with podcasts and all of this downloadable content is just too hard to get. You have to figure out where it is. You have to subscribe. You have to download it. You have to find a device to put it on to. And it’s way too complicated. So we started doing real time live streaming because we thought it was easier to go to a website...

John Dvorak It is.

Leo Laporte And just push the button and it’s on.

John Dvorak But numbers. Give us the numbers.

Leo Laporte Numbers are much, much lower for live but I think that...

John Dvorak Okay, so then you just – your point – you made the opposite point?

Leo Laporte Well, right now. But I think in the long run live is in...

Nick Bilton Live works for certain things and then live doesn’t for others. I mean...

Leo Laporte We’re still URL. I mean we are not – we still are URLs.

Gina Trapani News shows are just different. News shows are different.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Gina Trapani You want those live.

Leo Laporte All right.

Gina Trapani You want sports events and news shows streaming live. I like the idea that people would turn during – at their desk during the work days totally makes complete sense. And I am sure the live streaming numbers are going up, right? I mean is that trend?

Leo Laporte Oh, absolutely.

Gina Trapani Yes.

John Dvorak Yes, but the downloads are going up too, come on.

Leo Laporte Everything’s going up

Nick Bilton Yes, everything’s going up.

John Dvorak All right. So it doesn’t count.

Nick Bilton It’s literally – the web is dead nonsense.

Leo Laporte They all are skewed.

Nick Bilton If you look at the numbers, every single thing is going up.

Leo Laporte No, and in fact what we really want to do is make it available in every form. It’s not like we give up the downloadable version. We want to give you any form you want. But I do think and I think this may be a little bit of a backlash to downloadable content is that people also want live. They want a community.

John Dvorak It’s the interaction.

Gina Trapani Yes.

Baratunde Thurston And the community part is big. I mean I tell you like the TWiT app is, and not to just be nice to you because I am here right now, but I got the TWiT iPhone app and it’s pretty amazing like you log into you see the schedule, the day parting, if you will, of all your content. And I am like, oh, it’s 2:30 PM and so this show is on.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Baratunde Thurston And the audio immediately kicks in and there’s a way to jump in the chat room and hear what people are saying and there is something about that instant water cooler connection that solo podcast listening and viewing doesn’t provide.

Leo Laporte Well, now that you mentioned it…

Baratunde Thurston So, people connected to other people.

Leo Laporte I would like to do a morning show and I would love you to be – I want to hire you, Baratunde.

John Dvorak You should do it at New York.

Gina Trapani Yay.

Leo Laporte I want to do at New York.

Gina Trapani Baratunde morning show.

Leo Laporte And I want Baratunde to host it.

Nick Bilton Sunday, Sunday, Sunday.

Leo Laporte Come on, Monday to Friday.

Baratunde Thurston Sunday so much to...

Leo Laporte So here is my idea, Baratunde. We create a special app that’s an alarm clock app/TWiT morning show app. And so when people on their phone they use it for their alarm clock.

John Dvorak And it scares the crap out of them to see Baratunde.

Leo Laporte It wakes them up. And there is this black guy in bed with them. It’s great.

John Dvorak Hello.

Baratunde Thurston Look who is here. Look who is here.

Leo Laporte No, no, no, I just think it’s a great – it’s the next alarm clock. And your friends are on and they are live. And you are waking up them. What do you think, Baratunde?

Gina Trapani I want Baratunde in the morning.

Leo Laporte Come on, come on, Baratunde.

John Dvorak Sunday at 9, this guy is rolling to go.

Leo Laporte I will get you a jingle. You’ll have your own jingle.

Baratunde Thurston Are you pitching me on a show?

Leo Laporte I am totally pitching you.

John Dvorak By the way, the fact is that...

Leo Laporte Baratunde in the morning.

John Dvorak In the morning, there you go. You got it.

Leo Laporte In the morning. Wait a minute. I got a jingle for you.

Baratunde Thurston I make the jingle. You don’t make the jingle.

Leo Laporte No, here is the jingle. I already got it. How do you like it?

John Dvorak You got to change your name to insert.

Baratunde Thurston If I could insert name here, that will be my...

Gina Trapani It will be Baratunde everyday. Come on.

Leo Laporte Everyday is Baratunde.

Nick Bilton Oh, nice.

Baratunde Thurston No, that was really – so for my birthday. So Gina’s birthday – my birthday is the 11th of September.

Gina Trapani Yes, Virgo

Baratunde Thurston And some good friends including Nick tried to make Baratunde a trending topic on TWiT.

Leo Laporte Oh, yes.

John Dvorak Oh, Baratunde.

Baratunde Thurston Which is nearly impossible.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Baratunde Thurston But it was beautiful that they really tried to do that.

John Dvorak I think he could handle the morning show. You picked the right personality for it.

Leo Laporte Oh, he is totally the guy.

John Dvorak So why don’t we just get...

Leo Laporte I have been lobbying him secretly. He doesn’t know it. But I have been lobbying him for...

John Dvorak By the way, Leo is rolling in dough so you should take advantage of it before he self destructs.

Leo Laporte Baratunde in the morning.

Baratunde Thurston I feel like I am at an amazing moment of my career right now.

John Dvorak This is the perfect time.

Leo Laporte This is the turning point.

Baratunde Thurston How about we do this? How about we go to the next tech story?

Leo Laporte Okay, how about this?

Nick Bilton Ohhh. He’s pulling at Dvorak.

John Dvorak Keep pulling at Dvorak.

Leo Laporte Get ready for this. So Intel – this is – Engadget caught this and it’s kind of a stunner. If you buy a Pentium based G6951 processor based machine at a Best Buy, there is a card next to the computer, $50 card that unlocks extra threads and cash on your processor. You buy the computer, you don’t pay the 50 bucks, you don’t get the extra threads.

John Dvorak Why don’t you steal the card?

Leo Laporte You can’t, it’s not…

Gina Trapani That is such BS. So you’re basically paying to – not even overclock your machine…

Leo Laporte No.

Gina Trapani Just clock your machine at the point at which it can – it’s supposed to, or it’s intended to perform. That’s insane.

Leo Laporte It’s a Gateway computer. It says the card is…

Baratunde Thurston Whoa, whoa, well first of all, did you say – they still make computers?

Leo Laporte Right. Gateway still makes computers.

John C. Dvorak It’s actually an Acer computer, to be honest about it.

Leo Laporte Oh, it’s Acer. It says “increase the performance…

John C. Dvorak They own Gateway.

Leo Laporte …of your Gateway SX24 – 2841” – this is wild, by the way, what a terrible name for a computer, the twenty – “hi, I just bought the SX2841 stroke O9E.”

John C. Dvorak Typical Acer numbering.

Leo Laporte Geez Louise. “Purchase this card to upgrade your PC and enjoy an increase from two to four-way multi-task processing, a larger cache, speeding up data-heavy applications, effortless movement between multiple applications.” If you don’t buy this, you don’t get it! It’s an in-place upgrade of your existing hardware.

Baratunde Thurston So how about this? How about a devil’s advocate position which says the following: Rather than having them manufacture 3 different pieces of hardware with mild differences they ship one piece to you, which saves on shipping cost, that saves on a lot of ecological overhead, if you will and you have the power to unlock those extra capabilities in the same package.

John C. Dvorak Bogus! Bogus!

Leo Laporte Yes, I mean this is what bothered me about the Celeron, which was…

Baratunde Thurston I’m tying to…

Leo Laporte No, no, I think you make a good point, Baratunde. But this is what bothered me about the Celeron, which is they take the…

John C. Dvorak Take the show away from him.

Leo Laporte Shape and they made it less, and then they say, well we’ll sell it to you for less. But this capability is built into the machine though.

John C. Dvorak This show – he’s not good for the show anymore.

Leo Laporte Okay, no morning show for you, Baratunde.

Baratunde Thurston I love the morning show…

John C. Dvorak He’s done. You’ve got to be a consumer advocate if you’re going to do this stuff.

Leo Laporte It’s built in, in the morning! It’s your built in wake up time! How about that?

Nick Bilton It’s so gangster.

Leo Laporte He’s got a cat named Hip Hop.

John C. Dvorak Anything but the cat, please.

Nick Bilton How about this, The Nick Bilton Baratunde show.

Leo Laporte That’s what I’m thinking. Bilton and Baratunde in the Morning.

Baratunde Thurston Biltotunde.

Leo Laporte Biltotunde.

Baratunde Thurston I like it.

Leo Laporte Biltotunde. Yes, no, but that’s the beauty of this, Baratunde. You do this you could invite all your friends on.

John C. Dvorak You’re also going to get an apartment or something in New York.

Leo Laporte I’m going to move out there.

Baratunde Thurston The New York tech scene is a very exciting place to be.

Leo Laporte I know. That’s why we wanted a studio and we’re going to – look. Squarespace has already agreed to have us – to allow us to build a studio in their beautiful SoHo facility. You’ve been there?

Baratunde Thurston Yes, they’re my web host. I’m a big fan.

Leo Laporte It’s gorgeous. So we have the space, we’re going to build a studio out there.

John C. Dvorak This isn’t the same as having a bedroom in Manhattan.

Leo Laporte Well you wanted the bedroom, John. John said, if you do this, you’ve got to have a suite for me to stay in.

John C. Dvorak No, I never said for me to stay in, but for people to stay in.

Leo Laporte For people!

Gina Trapani A hospitality suite.

Leo Laporte For people named Dvorak to stay in.

John C. Dvorak I’m not an idiot.

Leo Laporte Well, actually, Gina, you could stay there too. But only when John’s not there.

John C. Dvorak I don’t know if that happens…

Leo Laporte Oh, see? It is for John.

John C. Dvorak No, no, I’m just saying.

Leo Laporte

I don’t know if she could stay there.

John C. Dvorak No, no. I think she should come. To the place, that is.

Gina Trapani I have family in New York, I’m covered. I got places to stay in New York.

Leo Laporte I know, I know. I just think it would be so much fun, we have a nice studio, a fun studio; I’ve got a couple of other people I think would be great on this show. We’ll set it all up. And then what we’ll do is we create a separate channel, because it’s always morning somewhere, have you noticed that?

John C. Dvorak You’re stealing all my material!

Nick Bilton That’s how the planet works.

John C. Dvorak This is all the stuff from the No Agenda show! You’re stealing it all!

Leo Laporte I don’t listen – if I’d listened to the show, I’d have stolen it. But I don’t listen to your show.

John C. Dvorak Yes, that’s what you say.

Leo Laporte Hey, speaking of which, John, what happened to Cranky Geeks?

John C. Dvorak Well, Cranky Geeks is closed. The last show will be Wednesday.

Leo Laporte That’s – really – that’s like one of the seminal shows on the net. I mean you’ve been doing this for 3 or 4 years now.

John C. Dvorak Four and a half years. 4.56 years.

Leo Laporte Wow.

John C. Dvorak And it’s done.

Leo Laporte And now, Miveo and Ziff Davis jointly own this show?

John C. Dvorak No, no. Ziff Davis owns the show. But they have a joint venture for marketing the show and producing the show and selling ads.

Leo Laporte Now Miveo – are you a Vice President of Miveo?

John C. Dvorak Apparently.

Leo Laporte We had Adam Curry on a couple of weeks ago, he said he’s not there anymore.

John C. Dvorak No, he’s still there, but he’s not there.

Leo Laporte What’s – Miveo’s going under.

John C. Dvorak No, it’s not.

Leo Laporte Of course it is.

John C. Dvorak No…

Leo Laporte They’re canceling their biggest show.

John C. Dvorak No, it was cancelled by Ziff; it had nothing to do with me being…

Leo Laporte Ziff cancelled it?

John C. Dvorak Yes.

Leo Laporte And why did Ziff – what’s wrong with Ziff?

John C. Dvorak No, nothing’s wrong with Ziff. The problem with the show is – I’m going to – if you listen to it…

Leo Laporte It sounds just like TWiT, that’s the problem with it.

John C. Dvorak If you listen to Today’s No Agenda show…

Leo Laporte Okay.

John C. Dvorak There’s a long explanation in there about what’s going on, which is five minutes, is what everybody wants. The only people doing long format are you and Cranky Geeks.

Leo Laporte It’s not been my experience that anybody really wants a five-minute version of this show.

John C. Dvorak That’s what these advertisers want for pre-roll. Pre-roll. Pre-roll. Pre-roll. Pre-roll. Pre-roll.

Leo Laporte Yes. See, this is what happened, is that a lot of these media companies gave in to CPA pre-roll, to stuff that is deleterious in the long run to the programming…

John C. Dvorak Oh yes, terrible.

Leo Laporte Because they were desperate for advertising dollars, and in the long run you hurt the industry by doing that. And you hurt yourself.

John C. Dvorak Yes. Pre-roll. Pre-roll. Pre-roll.

Leo Laporte Nobody wants pre-roll. We don’t do pre-roll. Won’t do it.

John C. Dvorak Good.

Leo Laporte The new Apple TV runs on – apparently, according to hackers – iOS4.2. I don’t know how they know, because it’s not out yet – but somehow they have some idea. And they say – and by the way, we’re going to be able to jailbreak it easily.

Nick Bilton Oh, without a doubt. It’s – I mean, it’s the same OS, it’s going to be a joke. And I think what’s – people are going to put some apps on it, which I think – that will actually make it worth buying.

Leo Laporte Isn’t it ironic that Apple wouldn’t do the thing that would have made Apple TV huge, in my opinion?

Baratunde Thurston Yes, they could have made it amazing. And instead, they made it “eh.”

Leo Laporte “Eh.”

John C. Dvorak B-mazing.

Baratunde Thurston And it’s – and I think the thing about Apple TV that’s lovely – the size, it’s a beautiful – it’s about the size of an iPhone.

Leo Laporte No, it’s gorgeous.

Nick Bilton But I’m not going to buy it just because it looks cool.

Baratunde Thurston But it’s crippled, it was this crippled thing.

Leo Laporte Well, Nick, you’re a good – perfect example, because you’re a guy who buys a la carte. Wouldn’t you love a device that had all the things you like, Boxee on it, Hulu on it, HBO could do an app, Major League Baseball…

Nick Bilton The most important thing, it’s not even the a la carte. For me, the most important thing is having access to the amateur content. And when we first got our computer hooked up to our TV, the – one thing that we do when I have friends over, we don’t sit around and watch a movie. We literally pass around the remote control and the keyboard, and we – I mean the mouse and the keyboard – and we show each other really funny or interesting YouTube or Vimeo clips that we’ve seen throughout the week.

Leo Laporte Oh, that’s interesting.

Nick Bilton We are our own producers of whatever we’re watching at that moment in time.

Leo Laporte That’s certainly what my kids do, too. Gina, do you do that, now that you’re 35?

Gina Trapani I still do that. I mean I think this is what makes Google TV maybe a little more interesting than Apple TV, right? Because Google TVs has been running Android, you make it to run an app but you’re also going to be able to get the web and you’re going to have Flash. So I mean – am I going to want the official Boxee app from Boxee on my Google TV? Or am I going to want – am I going to want to have to jailbreak and mess around with my Apple TV to get that on that, I don’t know. I might just go with the Android version.

Leo Laporte It’s interesting, because I…

Baratunde Thurston And the thing is – what Gina brings up – this social aspect that Nick talked about of, coming over and sharing your favorite clips, that’s not nearly a ‘Nick Bilton, I live in the future’ thing. I mean I’ve seen kids do that. I was hanging out in the Apple Store a couple of months ago…

Leo Laporte Hold up the book, Nick.

Baratunde Thurston And teenagers…

Baratunde Thurston I mean I encourage everybody…

John C. Dvorak Might as well.

Baratunde Thurston Buy every version of the book. Buy it in print, buy it for iBooks, buy it for Kindle…

John C. Dvorak Going to get an e-Kindle version.

Leo Laporte Is there an Audible version of it yet, Nick, did you tread the Audible?

Nick Bilton It’s available for everything but the iBook store, because Random House and Apple are still fighting. But you can get it for Kindle for your iPad. But there’s audiobook, there’s print, there’s Kindle, there’s…

Baratunde Thurston Did you do the reading? Did you do the audio?

Nick Bilton I did not, but I spoke to them about it. I probably wouldn’t have been much fun, I would have lost my attention halfway through and wandered off and started talking about gadgets or something like that.

Baratunde Thurston But this thing about people coming together around their shared video experiences – well shared experiences, period – but video is a very important part of our lives. I saw kids in the Apple Store on 14th Street in New York. They would just come there to share videos with one another. They’re all on YouTube. They’re all checking out things they’ve favorited earlier.

Leo Laporte That’s neat. That’s so neat.

Baratunde Thurston And they’re watching videos and laughing and playing and rhyming and doing all this stuff, and it’s a highly social – like – people have this fear that technology disconnects us from one another, that it’s un-human, that it makes us more like machines. But in so many ways…

Leo Laporte I love this.

Baratunde Thurston It can actually strengthen the connection that we have to one another.

Leo Laporte Yes. Yes.

Baratunde Thurston And when you see kids who don’t have any dogmatic view of these things – this is very natural for them – and they come to a computer and they’re like, I want to watch this video with my friends in the same physical space, that’s a beautiful thing to watch.

Nick Bilton No doubt about it.

Baratunde Thurston And so it’s to the extent that Apple TV, Google TV, Boxee, et cetera, allow that to happen in our homes, where this started – now remember, the 80s when music videos were a new thing, and people coming over to watch the latest Michael Jackson video or the latest Prince video or the latest Kool Moe Dee video. That was a big deal, and I think it still can be a big deal, so long as we maintain the environment that encourages that and don’t lock things down too much.

Nick Bilton I think that with that respect, one of the things – and I’m not trying to plug my book, I’m just saying – like, one of the reasons why I wrote this is just because I think that all these articles that say the Internet is bad for us and it’s ruining our brains and all these things, you’re essentially taking away literacy from this next generation of kids that…

Leo Laporte I agree.

Nick Bilton That is growing up in this world where it’s a changing society.

Leo Laporte It’s a different kind of literacy. And our form of literacy isn’t the same anymore. It is on, I know Audible is not an advertiser tonight, but let me play a little bit of Nick’s ‘I Live in the Future & Here’s How it Works.’

Nick Bilton I haven’t actually heard it yet. This is very exciting.

Leo Laporte This is Mike Chamberlain reading this.

John C. Dvorak You should get a copy.

[Audio clip]

Leo Laporte They picked him because he sounds like you!

John C. Dvorak He does.

[Playback] Mike Chamberlain …. sports is in the back of the business section on most weekdays. But that’s the problem. It’s only a collection of what editors think as appropriate. And it doesn’t swirl in my preferences.

Leo Laporte Actually, Mike is a good reader. I’ve listened to others of his books. It is on Audible so…

Nick Bilton That’s actually the intro where I talk about why I cancelled my subscription to the New York Times, so…

Leo Laporte Oh! Jesus. Oh God.

Baratunde Thurston Says someone who will get his paycheck from The New York Times.

Gina Trapani Oh! That’s bold Nick.

Leo Laporte Oh! Nicky, Nicky, Nick, Nick, Nick.

Gina Trapani Nice.

Nick Bilton It‘s a changing world. It’s a changing society.

John C. Dvorak Wait a minute.

Leo Laporte Is that what you told your – is that what you told Arthur Ochs Sulzberger, “Hey, Arty…

John C. Dvorak Here’s a question on my mind, he is working there, why doesn’t he have comp subscription for god’s sake?

Leo Laporte Well, that’s a good point. Why did he even have to pay for it?

John C. Dvorak What are you paying for anything?

Baratunde Thurston It’s – because it’s Gina’s birthday, I wanted to just toast to her because I know she is involved in so many projects. We know her from Lifehacker, but she’s been a lot of work with this company called Expert Labs which Anil Dash heads. But he was so exited to get her on staff as a coup, like what is the latest news from Expert Labs, what are you guys, what are you doing?

Leo Laporte So he’s a ..

Gina Trapani I have some cool stuff cooking over there. My software application ..

Leo Laporte He is a host. I just want to point out something.

John C. Dvorak Yeah?

Leo Laporte He is a host already.

John C. Dvorak No, he is auditioning – he is auditioning for the show.

Leo Laporte He totally took control of this show.

John C. Dvorak He wants to do the show that you decided.

Leo Laporte He is a host already.

John C. Dvorak He is obviously stealing everything, just taking all my moves in the show I’ve done. And now, people in the chat room are saying, I’m a dud, I should get out of here because Baratunde is better than I am. He is, which is possible.

Leo Laporte He is also better looking.

John C. Dvorak Well.

Baratunde Thurston Go ahead Gina.

Leo Laporte What’s going on, what’s going at the Expert Labs?

Gina Trapani Well I’m building this open source…

Leo Laporte So cool.

Gina Trapani ...web application. It’s call ThinkUp, and you can install on your web server and we’ve come a really long way, really fast and the beta is actually going to get released next week, early next week like Monday, Tuesday. But we’ve got a simple 5-minute web based installer. You literally – you unzip this file on to your web server and you click through the 3 steps. You install it. It gathers all your tweets and Facebook posts and all the replies for those posts, and your friends. And it lets you search and export and archive and organize your conversations on various social networks.

And in fact, Baratunde has been a test user for quite some time, and he has been one of my best test users.

Baratunde, I would love if you could talk about your phishing nets metaphor, but he is so good at sort of crowdsourcing, information and getting new ideas from his reader, his Onion readers and just his personal twitter followers. Anyways so just kind of pre-plug, ThinkUp is going to be in beta next week, there is a pre-testing zip file out there, now you can download if you just follow, ThinkUp app on twitter and when the beta is out next week, you’ll know all about it. I’ll talk about it on TWiG as well. But we are definitively looking for testers and developers. It’s a very simple PHP, MySQL app and so we are looking for users and coders. Thank you for the plug Baratunde.

John C. Dvorak Well of course.

Baratunde Thurston I want to try it. It’s your birthday, how can I not…

John C. Dvorak What does it do again? What does it do again? I need to..

Leo Laporte It does a Twitter analytics. It’s actually very interesting.

Baratunde Thurston I’ll tell you – the practice use from my perspective, is, especially all of us on the show have a decent Twitter following and I think, I love to use it as a research tool. You ask people, I’m looking for an app that does this, I’m looking for a person that knows this, reporters use this constantly and so Nick and people at The Times are probably using, does anybody know somebody at company x, the problem is with Twitter there can be such a high volume of communication and replies, that phishing goes out a day later or 3 days later or 7 days later, is just the real pain. And so what they – the ThinkUp app allows you do is attach to the node, that is your tweet, see how many times that tweet has been forwarded “or re-tweeted” and what the replies are to that tweet. If you look at the interface you’ll see people replying to, they have an in-reply-to and it links back to that original tweet. So their architecture supports linking back to the original, even though they don’t support threaded conversations natively. It sort of builds into the architecture, so when you’re, as a media organization especially, posting comments or posting a call for input, it can be very useful to go back and see, oh, here are the 40 replies I’ve got to question A separate from here, the 40 replies I got to question B; separate from the here, re-tweets I got from statement C.

And so that’s been quite useful for me personally. I am using it on a couple of other accounts but I think as a research tool, it makes Twitter much more usable and the way that Facebook kind of negatively supports because you can just look at the timestamp, click on that and see all the replies in line.

John C. Dvorak I’m sorry I asked.

Leo Laporte I am sorry. That provided too much information.

John C. Dvorak There he is, there is the curmudgeon.

Leo Laporte I think it’s really cool. I really, I really love it.

Nick Bilton I think it’s great. I want to try it.

Leo Laporte You do have to run your own server to do it, but I imagine at some point, Gina, people will run this as a service.

Gina Trapani Yes, I mean, if you set it up, you can open up registrations, or your friends can register and you know may be at some point we will host an official single place where everyone can sign up. But that’s not on the cards right now, but may be eventually. Leo is one of our testers.

Nick Bilton And Gina, where can we go to get it?

Gina Trapani We are working on the website, go to, which is very sparse right now, next week when the beta release happens we will have much prettier website, but you’ll be able to read more information about it actually at the Expert Labs site. There is a link there and download it. It’s on GitHub, but we’re going to have a much prettier download link next week. So right now we are still in testing. Our official release is next Monday, so – but if you are an early adopter and you are feeling adventurous, grab the zip file and try it out.

Leo Laporte But again, it’s not something – you have to write it – you have to run a server it’s not – you have to have PHP, MySQL and all that stuff.

Gina Trapani Right.

Leo Laporte It’s not something you install on your laptop.

John C. Dvorak No problem.

Gina Trapani Right. I mean, we built it with the idea that if you have a $5 DreamHost account or even if you just install XAMPP on your Windows machine, you could run it there. Now I mean, granted, this is definitely for nerds who have web servers for sure. But we try to make it as simple as possible, the most basic configuration possible.

Leo Laporte It’s really a great idea. I just – I think it’s so cool. Thank you for reminding me about that actually, Baratunde.

Gina Trapani Thanks, Baratunde.

Baratunde Thurston Absolutely. I’m here to help. I’m here to serve the TWiT Army, you know.

Leo Laporte It another great Baratun-day.

It’s been a great show, I hate to stop. But East Meets West is coming up, Tom Merritt is here. He is going to do a show with Roger Chang. In fact, did you get Roger on your Cranky Geeks?

John C. Dvorak Yeah, we got him on a couple of times.

Leo Laporte And that’s what happened to the show, I think.

John C. Dvorak We put him on the show which cancelled.

Leo Laporte Yes. John C. Dvorak is Cranky for 1 more week, make sure you catch the Cranky Geeks.

John C. Dvorak It was a good show on Wednesdays.

Leo Laporte The final episode on Wednesday. You’ve already done it?

John C. Dvorak Yeah.

Leo Laporte Oh!

John C. Dvorak It’s in the can.

Leo Laporte It’s in the can. You are in the can as well?

John C. Dvorak I’m usually in the can.

Leo Laporte John is at, the place to go. To find out more about John and all the things he does including the great No Agenda Show with Adam Curry, our good friend. Baratunde, my next hire.

Baratunde Thurston It’s always an honor to be here. I’m really glad you brought Nick Bilton from the future.

Leo Laporte Your suggestion. Thank you.

Nick Bilton Thank you very much for having me.

Baratunde Thurston Yes, I’ll take credit for the suggestion but the ..

Leo Laporte Great suggestion.

Baratunde Thurston But there is a lot of great talent in New York, and I’ll keep pushing them your way.

Leo Laporte Well, well if you had a show – we only had a studio in New York, may be we could do that.

Baratunde Thurston We’ll keep in touch on that.

Nick Bilton Or a morning show.

Baratunde Thurston Quite honestly, I m super flattered and honored and very interested.

Leo Laporte You’d be so good for that. Good.

Baratunde Thurston So let’s keep talking separate from the show.

Leo Laporte Yeah, we are not ready to launch you. It’s probably the spring of next year, but it’s something I’ve wanted to do for a long time. Their advertisers are champing at the Bid Fort, so I think it’s something we need to do.

Baratunde Thurston Excellent. New York is the capital of the world.

Leo Laporte It is. It’s where everybody wants to be.

Gina Trapani It is. It’s true.

Leo Laporte And you know what, Baratunde? If you can make it there you can make it anywhere.

Baratunde Thurston Oh! Thanks, Papa Leo.

Leo Laporte Another Brooklynite, is a place to go, his new book I Live in the Future & Here's How It Works : Why Your World, Work, and Brain Are Being Creatively Disrupted. I love the message of it, which is…

Nick Bilton That the Internet is not bad for us, it’s good for us and it’s changing society in an extremely positive way and we should embrace it, not tell people that they are stupid if they go to

Leo Laporte It’s so obvious to me and yet so many people think otherwise. I am glad that you are spreading the word.

Nick Bilton Thank you very much. Thanks for having me on the show. I really had a great time.

Leo Laporte Good, come back soon.

John C. Dvorak See you.

Nick Bilton Definitely.

Leo Laporte And it’s birthday girl, Gina Trapani, thank you so much for being here. Gina hosts This Week in Google with Jeff Jarvis and myself every Wednesday afternoon. And she writes for Fast Company, is her new series. She also blogs at her own site

Gina Trapani Couldn’t have thought of a better way to spend the afternoon of my birthday. Thanks for having me.

Leo Laporte I’d honest when I heard it was your birthday…

Nick Bilton Happy Birthday.

Gina Trapani Thank you.

Leo Laporte … I thought there is no way.

Gina Trapani Ha ha. Come on.

Leo Laporte So we can sing happy birthday, but we cannot use the AOL copyrighted tune, so let’s all sing it in our own tune.

[Everyone wishing Gina Happy birthday]

Baratunde Thurston It’s a tonal new happy birthday.

Leo Laporte A tonal – oh! Gina. Thank you everybody for being here. We do TWiT every Sunday afternoon 3 PM Pacific, 6 PM Eastern Time at, that would be 2200 UTC, if you are living outside the U.S., as I know almost half of you now do. We are truly a global venture and we are so glad you listen. You can watch the show live, you can also download it in audio and video after the fact from I’m Leo Laporte. Thanks for being here. We’ll see you next time on another TWiT.

John C. Dvorak No. I think you were here once. I think did we run into each other one time.

Leo Laporte Next time.

John C. Dvorak You don’t remember.

Leo Laporte Next time.

Baratunde Thurston I would never forget meeting John C. – dude, I used to read you in InformationWeek when I was in high school.

Leo Laporte Wow!

John C. Dvorak That’s unusual. That’s probably Infoworld, actually.

Leo Laporte Infoworld.

Baratunde Thurston No, that – it was definitely InformationWeek.

John C. Dvorak No, no. I never wrote one word for InformationWeek.

Baratunde Thurston Then it must be Infoworld. Okay.

Leo Laporte He was the back page.

Baratunde Thurston [Indiscernible] (109:46) around the kitchen table and I was a super geeky nerdy dude. I’m like, I want to read about business IT decisions!


Leo Laporte You are one sick puppy.

John C. Dvorak That is bad.

Leo Laporte You are one sick puppy.

John C. Dvorak I am sorry that you did that.

Baratunde Thurston But it made me a better person today.

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