TWiT 268/Transcript

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Episode 268


This transcript is provided by our friends at Pods in Print

Introduction Netcasts you love, from people you trust. This is TWiT.

Leo Laporte Audio bandwidth for this WEEK in TECH is provided by Winamp. Subscribe to TWiT and all your favorite podcasts with the ultimate media player. Download it for free at Video bandwidth for TWiT is provided by Cachefly at

This is TWiT, this WEEK in TECH, Episode 268, recorded October 3, 2010: Nice Rack.

This WEEK in TECH is brought to you by Carbonite. Backing up the files on your PC or MAC is safe and easy with Carbonite. For a free trial plus two free months with purchase, go to, offer code: TWiT.

And by Ford, and the new 2011 Ford Fiesta. With an EPA estimated 40 highway miles per gallon, no other compact car is more fuel-efficient. Drive one this week at a dealer near you.

And see how Ford stacks up to the Lamborghini when it comes to agility. Watch the Fiesta versus Lamborghini video on YouTube.

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This is TWiT, this WEEK in TECH, the show that covers the week’s tech news which you wanted. We ruminate, we masticate, we spit it out. And now you know the rest of the story. Starting to my left, Robert Scoble. The Scobleizer is in the house.

Robert Scoble Hey, how are you doing?

Leo Laporte Nice to see you, Robert.

Robert Scoble Yeah.

Leo Laporte We watched you drive up on a new site called Glympse, G-L-Y-M-P-S-E. And a –

Robert Scoble I got my – I got my OpenStack.

Leo Laporte And what’s OpenStack?

Robert Scoble I got a couple on –

Leo Laporte Is that a Rackspace thing?

Robert Scoble I had – it’s OpenCloud. We open –

Leo Laporte That’s right. Rackspace supports the OpenCloud, yeah. So we are going to recuse you on all Cloud subjects today.

Robert Scoble Om is the expert.

Leo Laporte Om is the expert.

Robert Scoble He’s been writing great articles in the last three or four days, or his team has been.

Leo Laporte We’re – we’re thrilled to have Om Malik back on with us. Om is the man in charge of GigaOM which is now a network of blogs. Good to see you, Om. Thanks for joining us.

Om Malik Thanks, Leo. Good to be back.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Also in studio with us today, Owen JJ Stone. You know him as Ohdoctah. Ohdoctah?

Owen JJ Stone Hello, sir?

Leo Laporte Hello, sir? Did you call me child?

Owen JJ Stone Sir.

Leo Laporte This guy drinks bourbon with a sweatband, because that’s – he knows.

Owen JJ Stone That’s right. That’s how we do it in the West Coast.

Leo Laporte We do not want to dilute the fine bourbon. So you – I think, Om, you get a pride – a place for the scoop of the week. Earlier this week, you announced that TechCrunch was going to be sold to AOL that was on – that was a week – exactly a week ago, because the next morning, Mike Arrington takes the stage with some AOL suit and confirms. How did you know?

Om Malik It’s my job, isn’t it?

Leo Laporte [Laughter] It is. Are you happy to see TechCrunch go to AOL?

Om Malik I am very happy for Michael. I think he’s worked really hard for it. So yes, definitely happy. I don’t think they’re going away – unlike a lot of people, I don’t believe that’s the last you’ve heard of TechCrunch. This is just a different parent company, just – there’s…

Leo Laporte Well, then in their defense, they have Engadget, they own Engadget, they haven’t ruined Engadget, it’s still the same great place it always was.

Om Malik Yeah.

Robert Scoble Joystick.

Leo Laporte Joystick? Yeah, they’ve got a lot of content. TMZ, there’s a blog you’d like to change. But they haven’t. Nevertheless, you wonder how Mike is going to get along with the suits.

Robert Scoble It’s fun. The night Om broke that story, I had dinner with the third shareholder in TechCrunch, Keith [indiscernible] (4:21). And he says he thinks Arrington will do very well in a big company. So –

Leo Laporte He’s been blogging already about the meetings.

Robert Scoble The meetings. But that’s why it’s funny, you know?

Leo Laporte Yeah. No, and Mike has a great sense of humor. You saw the – I hope – he has a great sense of humor. You saw the Geek Culture, The Joy of Tech comic on the day it went down. It says, “Mike Arrington’s first day at AOL.” “Hey, do you have any stolen documents that I can post up?” By the way, his T-shirt says, “You’ve got Mike!” and “when can I start work on the AOL-pad?” “Sheesh! You mean to say you jerks only work 10 hours a day here? What slackers! Holy crap! There’s some people eating lunch together. This is collusion. AOL must be planning to control the flow of the Internet. It’s AOL-Gate. What a scoop!” Tim – he’s talking to the CEO. “I’m just reading my contract, I see obnoxious, arrogant and a-hole are on the okay list. But can I still remain an internet blowhard?” Finally: “Screw this! I can’t wait three years!” He kicks him out. Of course, that’s fiction. But you got to – I think a lot of people are saying, I wonder how long before Mike just rubs somebody the wrong way.

Robert Scoble But a few million reasons to stick around for three years. So –

Leo Laporte How much, do you think?

Robert Scoble Well, the rumor – and Om, tell me the latest rumor – that the rumor was $25 million cash, and 40 million with the earn-out. So –

Leo Laporte Total of a 40, not 25 plus 40?

Robert Scoble Total 40.

Leo Laporte Does that – sounds right to you, Om?

Om Malik That’s the rumor I’ve heard but I don’t know anything.

Leo Laporte Do you think that’s a lot?

Om Malik It could be a lot more.

Robert Scoble Yeah, other people are like well, Mike could’ve gotten more for that. I don’t know.

Om Malik Look, I don’t know the exact value. So I won’t even say that’s the right number; it could be higher, it could lower. I do not know. So I probably won’t speculate but –

Robert Scoble You can’t see Mike going for less than Jason Calacanis sold Weblogs Inc. though.

Leo Laporte Well, Weblogs went for 130.

Robert Scoble No, it’s 28, in the 28 or around 28.

Leo Laporte Oh, okay, I thought it was more.

Om Malik I think that’s a very simplistic view of thinking about things, Robert. I think Michael is, at the end of the day, a smart businessman. And he would have made a right smart business decision with his sale. I don’t think he’s sitting there and it’s not as much of an ego sale, but it’s more of like what’s the maximum return I can get.

Leo Laporte Right. Talk about ego, Cringely says I will – you know I think it’s 7.5 million because that’s all I was worth and when I was talking there, I don’t know, I think that sounds like rank jealousy.

Om Malik Yeah.

Leo Laporte What is Mike saying his revenue is on TechCrunch, is he saying?

Robert Scoble Well, in Inc. Magazine, was saying 10 million.

Leo Laporte Wow! That’s a lot for a blog. A year?

Robert Scoble I don’t know if that’s true, but –

Owen JJ Stone See, that’s the kind of thing, it’s like unreal or fake money. People throw out numbers like that. At the end of the day, what’s the value that they’re going to get back. I mean a lot of people say that they make $2 million in ad revenue. And Leo, you sell ads and you have an audience and you know how hard it is to get that ad revenue coming in. So, I mean it’s still a blog at the end of the day and AOL will be behind it. Great, we’ll see what happens. I mean he got his paycheck, he work hard, he busts his butt. He’s walking around with bags underneath his eyes all the time like he has no sleep and you know –

Leo Laporte He didn’t look good at the –

Owen JJ Stone No, hopefully now he gets to take a nap or something.

Leo Laporte He really looks – he looks very tired.

Owen JJ Stone He works around – on his desk and so if this check gives him some piece of mind, then good on him. At least for that. But the value of things, I mean –

Leo Laporte Is this the beginning of a land grab, a gold rush for content, do you think?

Robert Scoble Most of his revenues came from events.

Leo Laporte It was events like Disrupt.

Robert Scoble And like Om is building – you guys have lots of cool events, right?

Om Malik We do have events – we have research, we have advertising, so we have three different revenue streams. So definitely not banking on just one revenue stream to go out of business.

Leo Laporte That’s kind of inside baseball, I don’t want to spend huge amount on it. But since you broke the story, Om, and everybody here knows Mike and he has some – some sort of relationship with –

Owen JJ Stone Mike would have actually pissed that you broke the story.

Leo Laporte He wanted to break it, I am sure.

Robert Scoble Well, they were planning – he told me they were planning on announcing the night afterwards. And they are –

Leo Laporte So he had to announce it at Disrupt.

Robert Scoble Yeah. Well, they had to announce it in the morning and they had to move Tim’s flights around and all sorts of fun stuff. So congrats, Om, for disrupting Disrupt.


Leo Laporte Nice job.

Om Malik Somebody had to do it, right? If not me, somebody else would have done it. So I think the more important thing is this is good for his team, it’s good for him. It’s a validation for this market more than anything else. I remember five years ago, Leo, you know this pretty well that five years ago, people kind of joked about blogs and didn’t take them very seriously in, everything were just – especially the mainstream media dismissed them. They are just a bunch of hoo has. And so here you are. One of a few million reasons to think otherwise. I think that is what is the key takeaway from this – I think between Mike and [indiscernible] (9:21) and sold paid content. I think you’ve proven that there is an opportunity in this new kind of media that some of us were – are trying to create and I think it’s working. That’s – I mean look, at the end of the day, AOL won’t have bought TechCrunch if they didn’t think there was value in it. Nobody likes to spend money, especially somebody as smart as Tim Armstrong would spend money on something without really thinking through the financial upside to that. So I think people are being pretty dismissive of the intelligence of the people involved in this transaction.

Owen JJ Stone Not the people I talk to. Most of the entrepreneurs I’ve gotten around to this last week have said, this makes AOL very interesting.

Leo Laporte Oh really?

Owen JJ Stone Yeah.

Leo Laporte So it was a good – I’ll tell you – 40 million, make AOL more interesting, it’s worth every penny.

Owen JJ Stone What was the platform, was it Newsweek that sold for like $5 million? And you look at that and you’re like, well it’s Newsweek, like you know, I go to my grandmother and I can say TechCrunch and she’ll…

Leo Laporte No idea.

Owen JJ Stone Not know what I’m talking about. I say Newsweek, she’s like oh! Newsweek, and she could start talking about it.

Leo Laporte Doesn’t that show you the difference between old and new?

Owen JJ Stone And I mean – and that’s the thing that gives me about the evaluation of things, I mean not that he doesn’t deserve the amount of money that he got, this is how you go from a staple and a natural culture and an icon of a company, I mean granted that is the dinosaur of paperback whatever, but – and then you go and triple, quadruple, quintuplet the value for a blog…

Robert Scoble Leo has talked a lot about this that the disruption that’s happened in media in the last 10 years is extreme. I mean, Leo, look around, you’ve probably $50,000 worth of gear here.

Leo Laporte Which is nothing…

Robert Scoble Nothing compared to…

Leo Laporte Nothing compared with television studio as you know.

Robert Scoble Yeah, on TechTV you spent $1 million on a set.

Leo Laporte Million just for a set, a million for a control room.

Robert Scoble And this represents a huge disruption in media, right. The fact that Mike out of his bedroom can write a blog and build it into something that now is worth more than Newsweek which shows that there was…

Leo Laporte That’s truly amazing, that’s a great stat on – I mean that really does say it.

Robert Scoble Om, has a company, how many people work for you Om now?

Om Malik About 25.

Leo Laporte Wow.

Robert Scoble 25 people are working for Om. He started in his bedroom, you quit your job out of mainstream news and started writing a blog, right?

Om Malik June 2006.

Robert Scoble Yeah.

Om Malik I think my answer to that comment is that you know 50 years ago Lifebuoy was a great brand, Kodak was a great brand, well I – you know, great brands have a shelf value in historical context. And I think culture context is the internet, the digital media and from that perspective you know TechCrunch is valued more than Newsweek. I mean Newsweek hasn’t really done anything to be valued higher, right. I guess been on the wrong side of the media equation for a very long time, so that just is...

Owen JJ Stone And that’s why AOL starts buying stuff because they’re pretty much dead in the mindset of what they do.

Leo Laporte They’ve made themselves relevant. You know they – they may not be done.

Owen JJ Stone They’re not done, but I am saying to that point of older companies are not really doing that much…

Leo Laporte Right.

Owen JJ Stone …as far as the AOL brand name. They are buying things, they do have properties underneath of them but I mean, when I tell people I still use AIM they laugh at me. And I’m like, whoa, a lot of people still use…

Robert Scoble You’re cool man.

Leo Laporte What’s wrong with ICQ, Owen, come on really?

Robert Scoble TechCrunch…

Owen JJ Stone Nobody bothers me on AIM.

Leo Laporte Well, yeah because nobody…

Owen JJ Stone I got my high school friends on there and I’ve got close friends. There are some big important people Uncle Leo that still use AIM.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I’ve an AIM account.

Owen JJ Stone People become stalking on Skype and everything else, nobody is looking for you on AIM, I’m...

Leo Laporte Is AOL done making acquisitions? Gabe Rivera is on Twitter last night saying, or yesterday, saying I’m meeting with AOL, he is making a lot of noise at Techmeme. He’s just fooling around.

Owen JJ Stone Gabe is…

Leo Laporte He is just fooling around.

Owen JJ Stone Gabe would be another smart purchase because he owns…

Leo Laporte Wouldn’t it? He’d be cheap!

Owen JJ Stone Well that’s where I look for my tech news every morning.

Leo Laporte Every morning, part of my beat check I go to GigaOhm, I go to Scobleizer, I go to Techmeme, I go to, it’s part of my...

Owen JJ Stone Om, what do you think about this because I have my iPad in front of me, I’ve 22,000 people flowing into my iPad, so, and I can refresh it and read those people. That’s a huge disruption of itself, right. The fact that we can listen to people all over the world that we want to listen to and we can see tens of thousands of them on the screen and…

Leo Laporte You know I want to talk about – you are right, this is going to segue into Larry Lessig’s really, I thought, great article in the New Republic. He published it on Saturday, it’s his not exactly a review of the social network the Facebook film, I think we should talk a little bit about that but he says that Aaron Sorkin and David Fincher missed the point of what happened to Facebook. And it’s relevant to this point. So I want to talk about that in just a sec.

Before we do, I also want to talk about our friends at Ford and the incredible Ford Fiesta. I thought we were going to talk about the Edge today, so I went out and drove the Edge. I’ll tell you what, Ford is crushing it, they are knocking it out of the park, I drive a 2010 Mustang, couldn’t be happier. This is a car that is solid, it feels good, it’s great to drive and now they’ve got this incredible Ford Fiesta, 40 miles per gallon highway.

Owen JJ Stone And it’s not a hybrid.

Leo Laporte It’s a gas engine. It’s this 1.6 liter Duratec, you know I’m going to say this because I, you know I always hated when Connie Chung says, that was the best dose. And I’m going to be like that because I don’t know anything about engines but I’m going to read this, Duratec Ti-VCT I4 Engine, does that sound right? I’ll tell you what, I got in the car, I drove the Fiesta, it is peppy, it is so cute, I’m a little bit better to judge that, it’s so cute and it’s a great car. Standard features like the Easy Fuel cap-less filter, I’ve got that on my 2010 Mustang, I love that, you never lose the cap.

You just press the thing and it opens up and you put the thing in and the thing goes in the thing, 4”, this is standard, 4” multifunctional display with LCD screen, heated leather – there is optionally heated leather-trimmed seats, PowerShift 6-speed automatic transmission and my favorite, and you got to get this, the Ford SYNC, they call it MyFord Touch now, the in-car communications and connectivity system.

Robert Scoble It’s incredible.

Leo Laporte Have you tried – have you played with it?

Robert Scoble Well now – you try the Ford SYNC on the expensive – the expensive Ford SYNC on a lower end cars we have...

Leo Laporte You don’t – still got GPS.

Robert Scoble You’ve got GPS over the…

Leo Laporte Just talks to you.

Robert Scoble …phone line.

Leo Laporte Yeah it talks to you. You never take your hands off the wheel, your eyes off the road, you’re always in touch, you can say what to play on music, you can – mine – on Android, will read my text messages. I got to record this so you can hear it. I got somebody send me a dirty text message just to hear what it would like because it’s a female voice – oh baby, oh baby I love you. It’s great. And I was laughing all the way home. I love my Ford Mustang.

Owen JJ Stone And you were sleeping on the couch for a week, right?

Leo Laporte Oh, no it’s wife, I got – oh baby, oh baby, oh, oh, oh, it’s really – it’s just marvelous car. You got to give it a try, the 2011 Ford Fiesta with a package that looks good and mileage you won’t believe. It is I think, let me check, I think EPA said this was the highest estimated highway mileage of any compact car. There is no other more fuel-efficient compact car. I presume that it includes the hybrid, 40 miles to the gallon. Drive one this week at a dealer near you and if you haven’t seen the YouTube video the Lamborghini versus Fiesta, go see that on YouTube, it’s hysterical. I’ll put a link in the show. Stop by a Ford dealer this week and drive the all new 2011 Ford Fiesta. I think I’m supposed to say this from the legal department, EPA estimated 29 city, 40 highway, 33 combined Mpg, automatic SFE – I don’t know what that means.

Owen JJ Stone I know you – did you get to test drive the 2011 Mustang?

Leo Laporte Yeah, I did. I was at Shelby.

Owen JJ Stone You wanted to trade yours in, didn’t you?

Leo Laporte I did. I really badly.

Owen JJ Stone They run those commercial, boy, I’m like okay.

Leo Laporte And you know the guys at Ford said that we can arrange that.

Owen JJ Stone Yeah, trade that, come on…

Leo Laporte Well, for a price but…

Owen JJ Stone Get that gas mileage up…

Leo Laporte I’m tempted.

Owen JJ Stone Come on uncle Leo, it’s nice.

Leo Laporte Have you driven it?

Robert Scoble You’re making…

Owen JJ Stone I have not driven it, I just want to drive it.

Leo Laporte You want to drive it.

Owen JJ Stone You get it, I’ll be able it drive it, at least around the block a couple of times.

Leo Laporte And somebody told me oh no, those aren’t America, they are made in Brazil. And I, look no, it was made in Michigan, that is a American car, end to end, stem to stern. It is so – I feel so good…

Owen JJ Stone 34 miles highway, you’d probably get…

Leo Laporte Supporting American industry and American workers, I just feel real good about that.

Robert Scoble And my Toyota is made is America too.

Leo Laporte Well I know nowadays it’s all made in Tennessee. OhDoctah!

Owen JJ Stone …owned by a Chevy or something too, right?

Leo Laporte You know my wife, I’m ashamed to admit, right now is driving a Toyota, the Highlander. You got a Highlander, right?

Robert Scoble We sold it.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I want to sell mine and get a Flex. Have you tried the Flex? Although she wants the Edge now. She says the Edge is super high-tech.

Robert Scoble We have three kids, so we had to get the minivan.

Leo Laporte Get the Flex.

Robert Scoble We got the….

Leo Laporte Man I’m just – I’m loving it. Thank you Ford for your support, I am sorry I shouldn’t…

Robert Scoble My producer has a Mustang.

Leo Laporte That’s – really, who, Rocky?

Robert Scoble Yeah.

Leo Laporte Rocky has got good taste. I always liked Rocky. Somebody drove up next to me, I’m driving down the road, I’ve a 5.0 GT, right, it’s not like, it’s eight cylinders but not like the top of the line. And somebody drives up in a Shelby Cobra, right, like the top of the line Mustang. And he guns his engine and all I can do is, yeah – that’s it, I’m not racing you. But it was fun. It was the little Mustang club.

So, first of all, Larry Lessig [indiscernible] (19:15), I mean he is the smart guy is I guess the way I should say that, after a little bland, it’s just hard to say [indiscernible] (19:22). He wrote a – he said though, look, this is a great movie. David Denby said it was a great movie, I did not think it was great movie. Have you seen Social Network?

Owen JJ Stone It’s a good movie. By no means it’s a great movie, I don’t need to see it again…

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Owen JJ Stone … at all, like there is no urge in my life to see it again, unless it’s a Sunday, rainy night and I’m bored and someone else…

Leo Laporte I’ll watch it on video.

Robert Scoble I’d two movies to see this week, one was Social Network, the other was Waiting for Superman, I decided to go see Waiting for Superman.

Leo Laporte Now that I can’t wait to see. That’s all about charter schools. Its so frustrating, these poor kids, smart nice kids have to wait in a lottery to get into a decent school, otherwise they are struck with a crap school, that’s basically wasting lives. Horrible. That’s something we got to do something about.

Robert Scoble It’s infuriating and actually they’ve filmed two movies. One was about innovative schools that are actually teaching and --

Leo Laporte Charter schools like KIPP.

Robert Scoble The charter schools, KIPP and stuff like that. And then they filmed a movie about how bad the education system is. And three weeks before the Sundance Film Festival, they added the two movies together and made one movie. And it’s really interesting to see it ping-pong back and forth between this.

Leo Laporte We are going to kill this country if we do not take care of the kids and get them good education. We cannot succeed as a nation, we cannot compete if these kids are not getting education.

Robert Scoble Hey, Patrick, you’re learning Chinese?

Patrick Scoble Yeah.

Owen Stone The biggest thing too is that I was talking to somebody the other day, and I said, we are a service country. We don’t create or build anything anymore. People used to be mechanics, machiners, I mean everything we do we export anything that actually gets done. So even if you are not getting a good education, you are not learning a second language, you are also not learning a trade or a skill because there aren’t trade and skill jobs for us to do. I mean we sit here and I can run my mouth and make money. That’s not really a skill if the world came falling down. I can’t put together a car or engineer anything, and that’s our real problem. We don’t build our own stuff. We don’t take care of our own. We outsource everything for cheaper and better. I mean we don’t even talk on our own phones anymore, we send it to India. So I mean it’s a really --

Leo Laporte I mean I talk – when I talk to – I’m on the Board at my kids’ school, fancy private school and – because the public schools here I don’t dare send my kids to --

Robert Scoble Actually Patrick’s in a public school.

Leo Laporte But Patrick is a self-starter smart kid. He can make his way through the public school. My Henry needs a little more attention.

Patrick Scoble I think Petaluma High is a pretty good school.

Leo Laporte Petaluma High is a great school --

Robert Scoble Yeah,

Patrick Scoble Yeah.

Leo Laporte For a kid like you. But I think a lot of kids fall through the cracks at a school like that. And there’s no budget.

Robert Scoble He listens to jazz music after all.

Leo Laporte He listens to Jaco Pastorius. Sounds like a disease – I got Jaco.

Robert Scoble Om, do you even know who that is?

Leo Laporte Om knows who that is because Om is like – no?

Robert Scoble Om listens to great music.

Leo Laporte What kind of music you listen to, Om?

Om Malik I listen to a lot of international jazz, I guess, listen to a lot of new age electronica sometimes.

Leo Laporte Oh, geez.

Om Malik And then a lot of classical.

Robert Scoble See, Om is like me. I love that stuff, just jazz --

Om Malik I love listening to Yardbirds and Eric Clapton…

Leo Laporte Yardbirds is okay, but not Enya, you don’t listen to Enya.

Om Malik Not Enya. Like I mean I listen to folks like [indiscernible] (22:28) and Tosca and, you know this is a little bit on the electronic side of things.

Leo Laporte Okay, that’s all right.

Om Malik I do listen to a lot of old rock, old jazz, none of new stuff. None of the new stuff I’m that excited about.

Robert Scoble Were you watching Neil Young?

Om Malik I’ve been listening to Lady GaGa though, I have to say.

Leo Laporte You know what, that Lady GaGa, she ain’t so bad.

Robert Scoble Did you see Neil Young last night on YouTube Live on Farm Aid? Man, he was rocking.

Leo Laporte He is awesome.

Robert Scoble And his new album is awesome.

Owen Stone Lady GaGa is just Madonna.

Leo Laporte She is Madonna with meat.

Robert Scoble Yeah.

Owen Stone Yeah. I don’t know. Madonna – I don’t know. It seems like the same thing and I just loved Madonna when I was growing up. When I was grown up Madonna shut everything down. She did a little cheesy movie, I mean Madonna did it all. She is crazy…

Leo Laporte But, you know, what you’re bringing up – and then by the way, we’re going to actually continue the tech news in a moment. But what you’re bringing up here, OhDoctah, is the fact that whatever you grew up to that’s what's imprinted on – you are like a little duck, you are like a little baby duck, it’s whatever – when you emerged into musical awareness, whatever was playing then imprinted on your brain --

Owen Stone I like everything but country. I didn’t get down very well with country music.

Leo Laporte I love country. But I do think that that’s what happens with music.

Owen Stone Countries evolved from the blues.

Leo Laporte Music is – it’s about what's going on while you listen to that music. It’s what --

Owen Stone Or what your parents played. I listened to a lot of stuff my dad used to play all the time that nobody plays anymore, but he played it.

Leo Laporte Rosemary Clooney?

Owen Stone Yeah.

Leo Laporte Love that stuff.

Owen Stone Yeah.

Leo Laporte My parents played that too.

Owen Stone I have got --

Robert Scoble I was born in the 60s, enough said.

Owen Stone My playlist right now, I’ve got tracks from the 50s, 60s, and 70s like all time greatest hits, 100 tracks each, each decade, so I can get my history on.

Robert Scoble Patrick is born in the 90s. What the hell happened in the 90s?

Patrick Scoble Jazz apparently.

Leo Laporte Jaco Pastorius.

Robert Scoble He was born in the year Mozilla was born.

Leo Laporte Wow. So he’s the Internet generation. He is the digital generation.

Robert Scoble He will never know a world without the Internet.

Leo Laporte This – okay, so what do we do? And so what I am telling our local high school is teach kids to be entrepreneurial. Teach them – they cannot as we did count on a job when they get out of school. They may have to make their own job. However, the good news is, and this is the Larry Lessig article, there’s never been a better time to be entrepreneurial. He says the story – as a story about Facebook, the movie is deeply, deeply flawed. He says this after saying what a good movie it is.

As I watched the film and considered what it missed, it struck me that there was more than a hint of self-congratulatory contempt in the motives behind how this story was told. Imagine a jester from King George III’s court, charged in 1790 with writing a comedy about the new American Republic. That comedy would show the new Republic through the eyes of the old. It would dress up the story with familiar figures – an aristocracy, or a wannabe aristocracy, with grand estates, but none remotely as grand as England. The message would be, fear not, there’s no reason to go. The new world is silly at best, deeply degenerate, at worst. And basically that’s what that movie was. It was old media saying don’t worry about the Internet. It’s a bunch of anti-social creeps.

Robert Scoble Look at me.

Leo Laporte They are fighting amongst themselves. That was very anti-geek. It was very anti-woman. But this is the thing. What is – and this is what I’d like your comment on. Again, Larry Lessig writing in the New Republic, the most frustrating bit of The Social Network is not, or is I should say, its failure to even mention the real magic behind the Facebook story. In interviews given after making the film, Sorkin boasts about his ignorance of the Internet. Boasts! On Colbert he said, I don’t know anything. This ignorance shows.

This is like a film about the atomic bomb which never even introduces the idea that an explosion produced through atomic fission is importantly different from an explosion produced by dynamite. What is important in Zuckerberg’s story, not that he is a boy genius, he plainly is, but many are. Not that he’s a socially clumsy, relative to the Harvard elite, boy genius. Every one of them is. And it’s not that he invented an amazing product through hard work and insight that millions love. That’s the history of American entrepreneurism from 1776 on, with different technologies.

Instead, what’s important here is that Zuckerberg’s genius – this is the key, I know there is a lot of words, but this is the key, Zuckerberg’s genius could be embraced by half-a-billion people within six years of its first being launched, without asking permission of anyone. He didn’t have to go to Harvard and say, can I start this. He didn’t have to – he took $1,000 investment. He did not have to get permission. He did not have to work his way through a distribution system. He was able to start Facebook because he felt like it, because he thought of it, because he could do it.

Owen Stone Because he stole it?

Leo Laporte He didn’t – and that’s the other side of this that I hated about the movie. That’s BS. That’s BS.

Owen Stone I know. I’m just asking. When you have lawsuits and you’re paying people money, I mean –

Leo Laporte The Winklevoss – there’s a great line…

Owen Stone I’m just asking. I’m not – don’t get upset, I am just saying.

Robert Scoble I have a hundred ideas today and they are worthless without execution.

Leo Laporte Look, MySpace was there. Friendster was there. It wasn’t that Winklevosses invented social networking. Those are guys were greedy Harvard elites.

Owen Stone I just wanted to say because again people had – get paid money. So there is something to that.

Leo Laporte $60 million.

Owen Stone Yes.

Leo Laporte And Lessig talks about that. He says that’s what's wrong with our system here. He says 65 million; they didn’t deserve $650 he says.

Owen Stone And what about the guy who funded it and he got squeezed out.

Leo Laporte Eduardo – that’s another story.

Owen Stone I mean I’m just – again – they are part of the story though. You can’t just talk about how amazing it is to be an entrepreneur and not talk about the drafts and trials and tribulations that come along with being an entrepreneur. As soon as you get on top, everybody wants to take you down, uncle Leo, you know what it is. I’m coming after this cottage.

Leo Laporte Lessig says, to his credit --


Robert Scoble We’ll take it over, Leo. We are kicking you out.

Owen JJ Stone That’s right. Me and Scoble…

Leo Laporte I’ll just leave. That’s fine.

Robert Scoble Om is going to – Om is running it all behind the curtain.

Leo Laporte I’m taking my ball and I’m leaving.

Owen Stone We will paint the cottage black tomorrow.

Leo Laporte Lessig says, to his credit, Sorkin gives Zuckerberg the only lines of true insight in the film: In response to the Winklevoss’ lawsuit, he asks, does a guy who makes a really good chair owe money to anyone who ever made a chair? And to his partner, to Eduardo, who signed away his ownership in Facebook: You’re going to blame me because you were business head of the company and you made a bad business deal with your own company, which is true.

The point is, and it kind of goes back to the school issue is, we have – this is an amazing time, an amazing opportunity, that’s what I am doing. I started in mass media when you had to get permission from somebody. You had to go to a radio station owner or a television station owner or a movie company – he says, why not, the movie guys should know this better than anybody, the movie industry – you can’t go one step without permission from some idiot capitalist who is holding the check book. And that’s what's amazing about this Internet generation is that you don’t need permission. You just do it.

Robert Scoble And Om can talk about the venture stuff that’s happening. I’ve interviewed four startups this week, all of whom or most of whom were funded by Y Combinator, $17,000, they started a company --

Leo Laporte They don’t need a lot of money and they can use EC3, they can use Amazon’s EC3 or Google Code to create a website that’s working or Rackspace’s OpenStack to create a demonstration of a viable thing. I mean you can really – isn’t that true, Om, that you can – you – today more than ever you can create and start your own thing without permission from anyone?

Om Malik Yes, you can start and you can create without permission from anyone, but to grow a big – and grow into a big idea and a big company, you still need capital. I mean that’s what Facebook did. Yes, they started very tiny and small. But they’ve --

Robert Scoble To be – well, you are talking about a Facebook or a Google, but look at Arrington, right, he didn’t take any VC or SmugMug hasn’t taken any funding, outside funding or GoPro…

Leo Laporte I haven’t taken any outside funding, I hope not to.

Om Malik I think what you are trying to – there are two different scales, right, if you look at Facebook to get to the scale where they are today then you need to take money.

Leo Laporte Yes. But they could get to a sufficient point to ask for money.

Robert Scoble To deserve the money.

Leo Laporte With a thousand bucks.

Om Malik Absolutely. I think we need to always remember that, that we can’t really just say, you can start a big company and then you don’t need a lot of money. I think on the Internet you still do. And there is a lot of things which need to go right like where between – like for every Facebook and Twitter there is a lot of companies that don’t make it, for every TechCrunch there is a lot of companies who don’t make it, right.

Robert Scoble Yeah.

Om Malik Let’s not get too carried away by the upside of the entrepreneurship, right. There is a downside to it. But I do agree there is lot of tools out there that’s much easier, there are more standards, the open-source software is out there, there is a lot of things which make it easy to go and start your…

Leo Laporte You got to agree there is more opportunity than ever…

Om Malik Absolutely. But you know the dream is a lot closer than you realize, let’s just put it that way.

Leo Laporte And that’s what I would tell a high school kid today is you are not going to probably graduate from college, you got to go to college, but you are probably not going to graduate from college being approached by five recruiters from Dow Chemical and US Steel trying to get you in the junior executive suite, you are going to have to find something. You may have to make something for yourself, and I don’t think that’s a bad thing. If you are the smartest, I worry about the – that’s the smartest third like Patrick, but I worry about the dumbest third…

Om Malik Keep in mind Facebook’s hired 1,200 people in the last five years…

Leo Laporte They make – they are creating jobs…

Om Malik They have hired what, 300 people…

Leo Laporte That’s nothing compared to the tens of thousands that are losing jobs…

Om Malik It’s nothing but…

Leo Laporte …because the industrial base is crumbling…

Om Malik That’s true.

Leo Laporte …or hundreds of thousands.

Om Malik …but the future of work is in the high tech industry.

Leo Laporte Absolutely.

Om Malik Even if you work at a company like Oakley, I went down and visited Oakley, most of the people there who are adding value are the people who have come up with a technical idea, a patent wherein a new idea to bring to them. And that’s the new world; you have to come up with something new.

Robert Scoble The economy will balance out a little bit too and that will help people a lot. I mean back in 2000, 2001 you had everybody that was email marketing specialist, and then the economy bounced back a little bit and people went back to their jobs, I mean, in a way. Now everybody is a social media guru specialist living on Facebook…

Leo Laporte That’s pathetic, that’s just pathetic.

Robert Scoble But all those people go away when the economy gets a little bit better and they will go back and have a job. Heaven forbid social media has given people some money.

Leo Laporte Do people – Om, do people…

Robert Scoble As much as pathetic I mean people are making money from that and if you don’t know how to drive a car Leo, and I’d say you had to drive a car and then you get in the car and you are driving it so easy…

Leo Laporte Yeah. You are right.

Robert Scoble …but you don’t know how to drive the car.

Leo Laporte That’s true …

Robert Scoble So, I mean, as much as you say it’s still – I mean, trust me. I am in that industry a little bit, I am trying to get out of it fully but there are people who don’t know and they are willing to pay to learn and as long as you don’t treat them like a little child and say let me tweet for you because it’s too hard, if you can just educate them and send them on their way take your money and go, that’s fine, but the whole kids sitting in the room tweeting for you for a mega corp is kind of weird when you talk about authenticity.

Leo Laporte You know who gets short shift in this movie? Shawn Fanning.

Robert Scoble Yeah.

Leo Laporte Because they don’t ever mention Shawn Fanning, it’s like Sean Parker invented Napster and Shawn Fanning the guy who wrote the code – who? It was Sean Parker, it was Justin Timberlake.

Robert Scoble Yeah.

Om Malik That’s the Hollywood…

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Om Malik …version of reality right, like that’s what they do.

Leo Laporte Even Sorkin admits we didn’t attempt to be accurate here.

Robert Scoble Did you see the movie?

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Owen JJ Stone The writing was – man, I tell you what, if everybody talk like that, I’d be happy…

Leo Laporte Nobody talks like that.

Owen JJ Stone I wish did they though, that was still…

Leo Laporte I love Sorkin’s writing, I’m a big fan.

Robert Scoble The funny thing is I walked around Davos with Zuckerberg for three hours…

Leo Laporte He doesn’t talk like that.

Owen JJ Stone He doesn’t talk like that. And in fact he is not even – he is not confident. Well I tried to pull him into parties, and he was like I don’t think I want to go.

Leo Laporte I want – so you and Om have talked to Mark many times I am sure. I wish you had seen the movie, because I’d love to know is this anything like the Mark Zuckerberg you know.

Robert Scoble Just based on the – I have read a lot of reviews and I have seen the trailers, and no, it doesn’t like Mark.

Owen JJ Stone In the movie he was like anti-social whatever nervous but he’s also a pimp, like there’s a part where the lawyer was just like, can I have your full attention and he is like…

Leo Laporte Oh that’s was good.

Owen JJ Stone He is like no, actually you don’t, you deserve the minimalist about my attention…

Leo Laporte I love that.

Owen JJ Stone …and that’s what you’re going to get and that’s all I can give you right now. Does that answer your question? Your snide question? And I am like…

Robert Scoble Yeah Mark’s nothing like that.

Owen JJ Stone Yeah I know. I mean like – he was cutting people at the knees left and right, not even looking him in the eyes when he did it. I am like if he talked like that I want to be his friend. I don’t care if he doesn’t like people, I don’t care if doesn’t like cuts heads off chickens…

Robert Scoble Now Arrington on the other hand does talk that.

Owen JJ Stone It was very well written , very, very well written.

Leo Laporte Well, of course. I mean that’s Aaron Sorkin.

Om Malik The fiction is always very well written.

Owen JJ Stone Yes. That’s the point. I was just saying I wish I live in a world like that.

Robert Scoble I think in 10 years he is going to appreciate the movie he made because he is going to be like bigger than life because of this movie. Everybody – the [indiscernible] (35:37) movie is just going to stick to him a little bit and people will think he was the biggest – like you said pimp.

Leo Laporte I didn’t think it was so negative about him to be honest. I thought it was neutral about him. There was so much you couldn’t really figure it out I mean one thing that the movie is a total lie is it implies that he created Facebook because he had his girl friend jilted him.

Robert Scoble Yeah.

Leo Laporte Which is a lie. I mean he hasn’t had…

Robert Scoble He is still with the same girl that…

Leo Laporte He is with the same girl.

Robert Scoble …he had met in Harvard, right.

Leo Laporte Right.

Owen JJ Stone The other thing that killed me about that part of it was it’s like there is no real villain, it kind of like it made everyone seem like they were just bad.

Leo Laporte All the geeks are bad in fact Larry Lessig says…

Robert Scoble We are bad.

Leo Laporte …the heroes are lawyers.

Robert Scoble Evil little nerds out to get each other, nobody cares about anything but money and that’s what it seem like, as soon as you start feeling bad for somebody you’re like, man he is a…

Leo Laporte No that’s exactly the point that…

Owen JJ Stone Yeah so there’s no real villain...

Robert Scoble But they did nail – on that point they did get close, because he does care about owning his business, and having control.

Owen JJ Stone It seemed like that’s all he cared about, it seemed like he was a machine, and all he cared about was his program.

Leo Laporte Yeah

Owen JJ Stone Screw everybody else, screw friendship, screw love, I never called my parents to say hey dad I made Facebook, nothing there is no emotional attachment…

Leo Laporte You know you never meet his parents.

Owen JJ Stone No I am just saying there is nothing that’s attached to him to make him care about anything other than anger and…

Leo Laporte Tell us about the Mark Zuckerberg you know, Robert.

Robert Scoble He is just a – if he didn’t start Facebook he would be a geek that would be sitting here…

Leo Laporte We all know this geek, we all know him. He is the guy we know. That’s kind of what I saw in that movie is like I think people assume, oh, this guy is – he is manipulating people in his head, he is so smart, he is running rings around, I just saw a kid that was just didn’t really want to deal with anything…

Robert Scoble No, if anything he understands how people work, and he understood the features he needed to add to Facebook to get people locked in.

Leo Laporte He did, didn’t he?

Robert Scoble Right. He took psychology, he told me he took psychology in college, right. And he studied how people work and what did he need to do to hook people in and make his system viral.

Leo Laporte Here is Mark Zuckerberg in an interview earlier this year with Diane Sawyer of ABC.

[Background Recording of an Interview] (37:37 to 37:46)

Leo Laporte Wow there was a woman, there were women except skanks and hos in that movie. It was very anti-woman.

Robert Scoble She said that?

Leo Laporte Yeah I know it was very – not a very positive portrayal of woman.

Robert Scoble One guy in the film handed a folder, so don’t get upset about the woman appear in the movie.

[Background Recording of an Interview] (38:01 to 38:20)

Leo Laporte I love this scene.

[Background Recording of an Interview] (38:22 to 38:56)

Leo Laporte I kind of like him. I mean he is kind of likeable. Would you say, Robert, he is a likeable one?

Robert Scoble I like him, I would hang out with him anytime. He is – walking around with him he was just like that, it was just…

Leo Laporte He is cute.

Robert Scoble Oh, I don’t about know cute, I don’t look at him like that.

Leo Laporte He is cute.

Robert Scoble But he is the kind of geek I like to hang out with.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Robert Scoble Somebody who’s building stuff, I mean I hang out with people like that all day long, that’s …….

Leo Laporte That’s what we like, that’s who we want to hang out with, people who are making a difference, who are doing something. Now it’s funny, because I found myself in the role of defending Facebook here and of course I have been very critical of its privacy policies and so forth but ultimately I defended because it is this expression of creativity, this is the height of geek creativity. And I saw he celebrate that and when I am critical of Facebook, I am critical as we would be of anything where – this is part of our life but we want them to do better.

Robert Scoble It’s interesting. I had a long argument with the guy who started Qwiki, who won TechCrunch’s Disrupt Conference.

Leo Laporte Is this another enterprise, did they do an enterprise?

Robert Scoble No, no, no. Qwiki is a service where you search for something like Om Malik, and it will bring up a visual experience, is the way I would put it. It would bring up videos and pictures and do a really nice – nicely designed thing on your screen.

Leo Laporte How do you spell that?

Robert Scoble Qwiki

Leo Laporte Yes, see this is why search doesn’t work anymore.

Robert Scoble Yes, and…

Owen JJ Stone Yes. It’s starting to get crazy. It’s starting to get crazy.

Robert Scoble Anyways it will start reading like Wikipedia or something to you and it looks cool.

Leo Laporte Is it a Wiki?

Robert Scoble Anyways, I was arguing with him because I just don’t believe in this company. I don’t believe in the technology. I’m going to interview him in a few weeks to give him a…

Leo Laporte It’s a Stanford graduate kid.

Robert Scoble It’s smart people. Right one of the guys who started it started Cuil which failed so they’re…

Leo Laporte Cuil, Cuil, yes.

Robert Scoble So they are – yes, they’re really expert at search engines and it’s beautiful he won TechCrunch Disrupt. So a lot of people were around me going my god that’s the coolest thing I’ve seen, and I was like it’s cool looking but I don’t know that I’ll use it after the first 5 minutes of playing with it. And so I had this argument with this guy but he was just like Mark, he was trying to explain what his company does and why it’s cool.

Leo Laporte This is called creativity; you know it doesn’t have to fit into the standard paradigms it may not work.

Robert Scoble Where I was going was every good idea needs haters, right.

Leo Laporte Right

Robert Scoble You know Steve Jobs has haters. People – the iPad which I think is one of the most brilliant products introduced this year has haters, right. Everything that happens that’s interesting in the world is going to have haters. The New York Yankees has haters. Right? I hate the Yankees. When you do a company or when you do something in the world if it’s interesting you’re going to cause a blowback. And I think that’s where…

Leo Laporte I agree.

Robert Scoble Where you came in with Facebook, right?

Leo Laporte I agree.

Robert Scoble Facebook was trying to do something interesting and we had blowback to it.

Leo Laporte But bottom line, I’m thrilled they’re there and I’m thrilled they’re doing what they’re doing and they’re trying and they’re…

Robert Scoble I’d rather have interesting companies like that trying to change the world and do something interesting and interesting people like Om and Mike and…

Leo Laporte So you think Qwiki is not interesting?

Robert Scoble I think it’s interesting on its surface.

Leo Laporte Why did it win Disrupt?

Robert Scoble Because people are fooled by UI. I was fooled…

Leo Laporte It was a gorgeous UI

Robert Scoble when I fist saw Windows Vista, when I saw Longhorn they showed me a smoking mirrors demo, it looked like the coolest thing I’ve ever seen, I said, oh my god, Microsoft is finally going to be Apple, they’re going to finally do something really interesting, and then it came out that – first of all, it didn’t come out.

Leo Laporte Demos lie. Right.

Robert Scoble So and second of all what – when we see UI on the screen it can fool us. I mean, friends of mine are arguing that I was wrong about the Flipboard. I don’t think so but…

Leo Laporte I love Flipboard.

Robert Scoble I love it, but Steve Gilmour and other people are like, eh Flipboard is like all UI, no kettle.

Leo Laporte Well, it’s just a newsreader.

Robert Scoble Right, all ad, no kettle, right.

Owen JJ Stone I mean, it’s just a newsreader.

Leo Laporte It’s just a newsreader.

Owen JJ Stone I mean how exciting can you get about certain things that are just like whoop dee doo? Really?

Leo Laporte It’s infrastructure.

Owen JJ Stone I flipped through pages and great. I see all the crap that all my people – I mean you follow a ton of people, so I’m sure yours is filled with tons of crap as well as the occasional good thing, you know I mean, so great, it’s nice to have it there. It’s not changing my world. It’s not getting me excited in middle of the night. I’m not waking up to go use it. It’s not what I turn my iPad on for.

Robert Scoble Good point. The TechCrunch Disrupt had 2 other companies DataSift and what was the other one, it made your website faster. Somebody in the chat room help me. Cloudforce or cloud something.

Om Malik CloudFlare.

Robert Scoble Cloud what?

Om Malik CloudFlare.

Robert Scoble CloudFlare. Thank you. That makes your website faster and more secure. I thought those were much more interesting technologies and I thought they were actually more disruptive but they are hard to explain to people and it’s not so flashy, right. It’s not a consumer thing that people go, oh! Nice new UI. Nice – something nice to play with.

Leo Laporte It’s a challenge for people like you – really you’ve put yourself at the position of discovering new stuff and sharing it with the world. That’s got to be a tough thing to do. I don’t – I wouldn’t attempt that myself.

Om Malik Yes, I agree with Robert in that I think there is an inordinate amount of focus on cool consumer web things when there is a lot of interesting stuff still going on in the rally, we don’t pay as much attention to it because it’s a little difficult to understand and explain to people.

Leo Laporte Right

Om Malik We do that all day long. I mean that’s – we’ve made that our focus for a very long time. And but I do agree with Robert, I think that is something we need to stop doing as a collective industry and start…

Robert Scoble It’s tough though. And I re-tweeted your article about [indiscernible] (45:20) and you’ve been writing about the Big Data stuff and…

Leo Laporte We’re all magpies. We just want the shiny, pretty toys.

Robert Scoble Yes, but it’s hard to explain with [indiscernible] (45:30), you know.

Leo Laporte Right.

Robert Scoble And how it enables a new kind of service to be built.

Leo Laporte Right.

Robert Scoble Right. It’s hard to explain that. It’s hard to get your hand – DataSift even, right, which takes the Twitter firehose feed and lets you build streams off of that.

Leo Laporte You got to know your audience though. My audience knows, understands a lot about technology but I think they are more pragmatic. They want to know well, what’s it going to do for me and when it’s implemented and I see a speed up on Google when then I’ll get excited about it but until then…

Owen JJ Stone Well that what you just said is like a normal standpoint but for other people like Robert or Om they – you have to be on top of things so that you can be in the forefront so at least you can get a look at it. And like you said Robert sometimes you are fooled, I mean, perception is everything. And sometimes when someone puts something on your plate that looks really good, you want to eat it and then you taste it and it’s not so great but you don’t know until you dig into it, until you actually…

Robert Scoble Yes, absolutely.

Owen JJ Stone Looking at it looks actually great but until you get a chance actually to get your hands on it and get into it I mean you can walk away saying oh the iPhone looks great. Did you really get to touch it? No, they’re going to have it out next week and then I’ll reevaluate. But, you get tricked by perception.

Leo Laporte We try really hard, I try, and I know you guys try really hard not to be fooled by that stuff.

Robert Scoble I had Flipboard 3 months or 3 weeks before it came out but I saw it 3 months before it came out and I had time to play with it. I have on my camera a new app coming out in a couple weeks that lets you talk to your iPhone and it’ll play music from your iTune Stores.

Leo Laporte What?

Robert Scoble Really cool

Owen JJ Stone What? I need to start hanging out with you, I just need the leftovers. I need the Scoble leftovers.

Robert Scoble See while TechCrunch was going on I was off filming people because I knew that the real disruption was happening somewhere else.

Leo Laporte Let’s take a break. We’re going to come back with more. Robert Scoble is here from OhDoctah JJ Stone is here. Owen JJ Stone, And from Om Malik and we’re talking about the week’s tech news coming up in just a little bit.

Magicians call it misdirection; a new senate bill is really all smoke and mirrors. This will be a good example of how the mainstream press would probably jump on this, get all excited about it, but we have a higher duty to explain why it is nothing to get excited about.

Before we do that though I want to talk a little bit about backup. This is infrastructure but I think it’s important to everybody backing up your software, your data, your most important stuff is absolutely critical. And my friend Peter Krogh coined the term 321 backup. He says you got to have three copies. One copy of something is not a backup. Two copies even isn’t really a backup. You got to have three copies of everything. Two of them on 2 different types of media and one of them offsite; that’s the real important one.

Carbonite is offsite backup done right, makes it easy for you to do very simple all you have to do is install. I think you can do it right now. Go to and install it for free. No credit card needed for 2 weeks. Instantly Carbonite starts using your high-speed Internet connection to back up your critical data. Free for the next 2 weeks. I want you to give it a try.

There’s a couple of things you going to want to know about. First a 128-bit SSL so you could be even at a open access point and not worry about the backup happening. You even have access to optional AES-256 bit encryption so if you want to keep this private you really can. It’s completely secure.

Here’s the great thing, you can restore anywhere anytime you don’t even have to be on the same machine. You just log on to your Carbonite account. You can even do it on a free iPhone or Blackberry app and there is your data, available, get it back, instantly.

Carbonite, $55 a year if you decided to buy; for unlimited backup, all the personal data on your internal drive Mac or PC, take a look though if you’re a windows user, the new 4.0 version it’s light, it’s fast, it’s just awesome; It’s no surprise that Carbonite was just named the fastest growing U.S. company in the IT services sector. That happens when you really fill – find a need and fill it and they did. OhDoctah?

Owen JJ Stone A friend of mine house burnt down and…

Leo Laporte You never think that’s going to happen but boy when it does your backups are gone.

Owen JJ Stone You never think it’s going to happen and besides the backups is just like it’s just like the pictures. I mean you forget the music, forget your applications. We’ve had digital camera, there’s a friend I know, we’ve had digital cameras since 1999. We haven’t taken real film pictures since then and we never print them out. We’ve got…

Leo Laporte No, it’s all on the hard drive.

Owen JJ Stone Picture frames. He’s got a 27-inch – he had a 27-inch monitor in this house that just streamed pictures and he lost all of his pictures because he had it saved and he had it backed up, the blaze went for too long and it just corrupted the data. So now he has it sent out and he’s trying to spend thousands of dollars to get it recovered and I mean lord knows if you could back up offsite for less than $5 a month, get on it. I am backed up offsite.

Leo Laporte Do it. Absolutely.

Owen Stone I am – you got to do it. You have to do it.

Leo Laporte If you shop around, I mean there’s all sorts of ways to do if you shop around. There’s Carbonite, just…

Owen Stone And you get 2 weeks free trial, so how about it?

Leo Laporte Yes, easy,, offer code twit to try it free for 2 weeks and if you decide to buy, get 2 months free when you use the offer code twit. Carbonite, you got to back it up to get it back. Boy that just says it all. That’s a sad story, holy cow! No kidding.

Owen JJ Stone He was devastated. And I am like there’s nothing you can do.

Leo Laporte I got a call today on the radio show, guy, I couldn’t believe it. He had an iPhone. He hadn’t hooked it up to the computer in 5 months. So he hadn’t synced it, right. And he had all these pictures on it. And it died. And he said what am I going to do? I said nothing. You lost your – it’s dead. He said it wants to hook up and restore. I said well – and he said, if I do that I am going to lose everything. I said yes.

Robert Scoble Yeah.

Leo Laporte I mean Apple does make it easy to back it up.

Robert Scoble There is plenty of apps that – when you take pictures it uploads it somewhere.

Leo Laporte Yeah, just do that, man. SmugMug, that’s what I use SmugMug for.

Robert Scoble Yeah.

Leo Laporte There is a number of programs I use on my iPhone and Android phones to do that.

Robert Scoble Yeah. In fact right while we are talking, my favorite the Best Camera app just came up with up an update, so.

Leo Laporte Which camera app is that? It’s called the Best Camera app?

Robert Scoble The Best Camera app done by Chase Jarvis who is a professional photographer up in Seattle.

Leo Laporte Oh, I have to try that.

Owen JJ Stone The name says it all.

Robert Scoble Well, he says the best camera is the one that you have with you and --

Leo Laporte That’s right. Isn’t it?

Owen JJ Stone There you go.

Leo Laporte Have you seen – Boinx did something that I just – I have been playing with this like crazy. You know Boinx. They do video switching software. They have got a camera application with a bad name. It’s called You Gotta See This! Every time I tell people, they say, yeah, but what’s the name. You Gotta See This! Yeah, but what’s the name? You Gotta See This! But what it does is you run the program, I think it’s couple of bucks for the iPhone. And you pass your iPhone like you just swipe. It’s not a photo stitcher, makes a photo montage of everything. So I’m going to swipe here.

Robert Scoble Oh, yeah.

Leo Laporte And it makes a really cool photo montage. I mean it’s a kind of one purpose thing. But I just really like it. But that’s the point that your friend was making, Robert, is that --

Robert Scoble Yeah.

Leo Laporte I mean maybe this isn’t the best camera in the world. This iPhone was pretty good.

Owen JJ Stone And that HDR is killing it.

Robert Scoble Oh, yeah.

Leo Laporte It’s pretty good.

Owen JJ Stone Come on, man, for a phone. Well, I look good in every picture.


Owen JJ Stone And all my color tones are perfect.

Leo Laporte Can I commend you by the way on your bravery? You know what I’m going to talk about here?

Owen JJ Stone Oh.

Leo Laporte Stripping down for the Old Spice parody.


Owen JJ Stone I’ll tell you what.

Leo Laporte You are a brave man.

Owen JJ Stone I figured out why women get money thrown at them when they drop the top. It creates a stir of emotion in people.

Leo Laporte It does.

Owen JJ Stone And if I would have known dropping my top would have made me a little bit more impressive, I would have done it years ago.


Leo Laporte Did you get a lot of attention?

Owen JJ Stone Yeah.

Robert Scoble There’s three naked pictures of me out on the Internet.


Owen JJ Stone But yeah, I had a towel on. So I cut off the show.


Leo Laporte But, Owen, I just want to say, you got a nice rack.

Owen JJ Stone Thank you.

Leo Laporte That was a brave thing to do. I wouldn’t do it. I wouldn’t go around topless.

Owen JJ Stone It was very interesting. I got like 2 years of soap from Dove.

Leo Laporte Did you really?

Owen JJ Stone Yeah.

Robert Scoble Remember, I wrote a blog called Naked Conversations.

Owen JJ Stone Yeah.

Leo Laporte No, you and – I’ll never forget you and Shel Israel in the shower together. That just was the creepiest thing I ever saw.

Robert Scoble No, that wasn’t in shower. That was Arrington’s backyard during one of his parties.

Leo Laporte It looked like you were in a shower.

Robert Scoble It looked like it but it was in Arrington’s backyard. And then we weren’t naked. We were just topless and drunk.


Owen JJ Stone That’s what I told you. [Indiscernible] (53:32) gets you drunk and then you got to show. Everything is good.

Leo Laporte So Tom – I can’t get his name right. Tom Udall, who is a Senator from New Mexico, Democrat, has proposed the Cell Phone Bill Shock Act of 2010. Now on the surface, this sounds like a great thing. In magic they have a term called misdirection. When the magician is about to do something with one hand, he gets you to look over on the other hand thinking that that’s where the action is. It’s called misdirection. And of course while you’re looking at the other hand, the real slide of hand is happening. That’s what to me this bill is.

Let me just tell you what this bill is. It will require cell phone companies to notify you via a free email or text when you’ve used 80% of your monthly cell phone minutes, text or data. Yeah, that’s it. That’s it. The idea being that people are getting shocked by cell phone bills where they have used way too much data. It’s costing way too much. And so, thank you, Tom Udall. He is making sure that the cell phone companies are taking care of their customers. They will send a text notifying you that you’re about to go over your limit. That’s going to be the law of the land.

Meanwhile, cell phone companies are charging $275 for early termination of your contract even after 5 years. They are charging you minutes for the 15 second “please press 1 to leave a message, press 2 to leave a fax.” They are charging you $1,500 a megabyte for text messages. But no, we’re all going to be happy because of the Cell Phone Bill Shock Act of 2010. They are going to send us a text message. To me that’s misdirection. I am not getting you excited on this one. Am I? I’m going to move on.

Owen JJ Stone No, you know what the problem with that is? It’s – everything is like that. I mean --

Leo Laporte They are taking money from Verizon and AT&T. So they are going to pass a stupid bill that will make us feel better about them without really calling the cell phone companies to...

Owen JJ Stone They haven’t even fixed the credit problem in America. I am not worried about cell phones. I could give a ham sandwich. My friends just got their credit card cut off last week because they didn’t answer a phone call, made every payment, never been late on a payment.

Leo Laporte Really?

Owen JJ Stone The credit card company is like, hey, you know what, you’re carrying a high balance. We don’t want you. We’re going to cut it off. Now pay us off.

Leo Laporte That’s what happens.

Owen JJ Stone Yeah.

Leo Laporte They just look for an excuse to cancel it.

Owen JJ Stone Exactly, but never late on a payment, never missed a payment, nothing, but they are just like --

Leo Laporte Yeah, they are just don’t want you.

Owen JJ Stone The balance, you’re over 50%. We got to cut you off. I mean we need to fix....

Leo Laporte I think my credit card company didn’t send me a credit card because I pay off the bill. And they weren’t making enough money on the....

Owen JJ Stone Opposite sides of the pole.

Leo Laporte New CEO at HP, a guy Larry Ellison mocked. His name is Léo, I like that, Léo Apotheker, CEO and President of HP. Om, what do you know about this guy? Oh, wait a minute.

Robert Scoble By the way, the SF Giants just clinched the NL West.

Leo Laporte All right, the Giants win the division.

Robert Scoble See, this is what you learn on Twitter. Oh, you got Om back.

Leo Laporte Sorry. Go ahead.

Om Malik Oh yeah, I have been here, man. I just have been listening to you guys talk, so.

Leo Laporte No, I did turn you down during the commercial. I forgot to turn you back up. Sorry.

Om Malik When Robert talks, everybody else just has to walk.


Leo Laporte Apotheker was the former CEO of SAP.

Om Malik Yeah. I am a little bit foxed by this nomination to the CEO’s position mostly because if they were looking for somebody to replace Mark Hurd, they didn’t have to replace him with somebody like Mark Hurd except less well known and with a less successful track record. So I am not sure what they are thinking. I think there may be some issues because of this hiring. There’s a lot of people within HP who might be looking for new jobs people who are there, who had an eye on the top position and they might be looking to leave. So I think that would be a more interesting story to watch.

But from a larger standpoint I don’t think HP is completely out of the woods company. I think there is a lot of things which are beginning to go wrong there. I think the firing of Mark Hurd was just the tip of the iceberg. And there is a lot of --

Leo Laporte You agree with Ellison that it was a dumb move?

Om Malik Yeah, I mean it’s like they like to think – HP likes to think it’s a company all about innovation and when you really look at it, what was the last thing they really innovated on.

Leo Laporte Yeah, inkjets.

Om Malik I mean it’s like – they do great printers I mean. But they are not really an innovation company. Yes, they have a lot of smart people which work for the company but that doesn’t really mean that they are really changing the game per se. So I don’t think they were an innovation company. So from that perspective, Mark Hurd was doing the innovation of the bottom line, right. He was basically innovating on the financial aspect of the company, making it more lean, more – extracting blood from the stone so to speak but he was doing what he needed to do. And I think that’s the reality of HP. And I think somehow, they just don’t seem to quite understand that that’s it. Like when you buy a company like EDS and when you overpay for company like 3PAR you kind of are telling rest of the world that things are coming – wheels are coming off this wagon. That’s what I feel.

Leo Laporte Larry Ellison sends an email to the Wall Street Journal saying, I am speechless, apparently not, but I am speechless. HP had several good internal candidates but instead they pick a guy who was recently fired because he did such a bad job of running SAP. Is that fair?

Om Malik Well, Larry is being Larry, right. He likes to kick a rival when they are down.

Leo Laporte Oh, yeah.

Om Malik And that just is Larry Ellison. I won’t put too much --

Leo Laporte It’s juicy for Larry. What an opportunity, right?

Om Malik I mean it’s like the pot calling the kettle black. I mean his company isn’t that innovative either. Yeah, they bought Sun and so they have some interesting technology. But what really it is, is – it just – it shows how much of an opportunity there is for HP’s competitors to take market share from them. I think that’s the big picture there.

Leo Laporte Logitech is going – has a big product announcement October 6, three days. You going to this? Are you excited about this? It’s Google TV. Device. Which…

Om Malik How is this an announcement? So – you just told millions of viewers on your TV show that we will be making Google TV.

Leo Laporte We know that, yeah.

Om Malik So the news is already out, the announcement is already out. So how is this an announcement?

Leo Laporte They’re going to unveil it.


Leo Laporte This isn’t Apple. All right, Apple would say here’s a guitar and an invitation to come and see what we got.

Robert Scoble Everybody’s going to come to these things with their pet service. For instance, I wanted to watch…

Leo Laporte Hulu?

Robert Scoble Will Young last night on YouTube Live. YouTube Live does not play on my…

Leo Laporte Should be on a big screen.

Robert Scoble On my Boxee box or anything like that yet. I want a box that makes it easy to go to YouTube Live and watch Farm Aid or whatever show they’re live streaming.

Leo Laporte I bet you’re going to have – Roku just did a deal with Hulu Plus, so to me that’s huge.

Robert Scoble But I have Roku and I couldn’t play YouTube Live.

Leo Laporte No, nobody can play YouTube live.

Robert Scoble So I’m waiting for the box. I assume the Google box better play YouTube Live.

Leo Laporte I think you can assume that. It will probably have a browser in it.

Robert Scoble And Apple TV has the best Netflix, right?

Owen JJ Stone Yeah. Well, it looks the best. I mean, it’s Netflix. My…

Leo Laporte Netflix is Netflix, yeah.

Owen JJ Stone It’s great, whoop de do. It looks pretty. That’s what Apple does to stuff. So you say…

Leo Laporte It’s got the best looking Netflix.

Owen JJ Stone It’s the thing that plays Netflix when I push the button.

Leo Laporte I like my Roku – my Roku interface to Netflix is fine. It’s great.

Owen JJ Stone Yeah, I use it to play PlayStation 3 and its…

Leo Laporte PS3. You know what’s negative on PS3. You got to put the stupid disc in.

Robert Scoble Yeah.

Owen JJ Stone True that.

Leo Laporte That and the Wii. Why should you have to put a disc in? X-Box, you don’t have to put a disc in.

Owen JJ Stone I agree with you on that.

Leo Laporte I think – I ordered the X-Box with the Kinect. I’m thinking that might be the home theater PC of choice.

Robert Scoble I have an X-Box working out of the PlayStation...

Owen JJ Stone It streams everything through – it even works with Apple products. It streams perfectly.

Leo Laporte That’s right.

Owen JJ Stone It’s a good machine.

Robert Scoble I’m still waiting for the Google TV.


Leo Laporte So what can – what can Logitech or Boxee do? The Boxee box is going to be coming out this month or next two. What can they do to put themselves ahead?

Om Malik I think I have two thoughts about this.

Robert Scoble Om’s smarter than I am, so.


Om Malik I have no problems agreeing with you on that one. No, I’m joking. But Robert, I think you use video a lot so you might actually some thoughts on it. But the way I see it, Logitech needs to come out with a remote which is actually optimized for internet video. Which is not about buttons, it’s not about some stupid navigation key, it has some kind of touch capability.

Leo Laporte Well, they own Harmony, so they know how to do a remote, right?

Om Malik They want to make television – how about just making things you know, which is like remotes, right? How about just focusing on your core competency?

Leo Laporte What about an Android phone as a remote? Or an Android tablet as a remote?

Owen JJ Stone I was going to say that. Android or Apple are going to be the best remotes you’re going to get when the apps come out for them. I mean Logitech…

Leo Laporte I use…

Owen JJ Stone Their touch remotes aren’t that sophisticated, they’re not even close to being…

Leo Laporte Well, they’re not computers, are they? And the iPhone is a computer.

Owen JJ Stone No, they’re not. That’s my point, just saying.

Om Malik Don’t sell your remote for $400. You sell it for $50 or so. That’s what the world needs, right?

Leo Laporte Right. Harmonys are very expensive.

Om Malik Right. So you need to come up with smart remotes which are cheap, and they’re optimized for this large internet video content. And like, they need to focus on that before they focus on making televisions. I think what Boxee needs to do is absolutely nothing.

Leo Laporte [Laughter] You like it.

Om Malik Yeah, I think they – I installed Boxee on one of the new Mac Minis, the brand new Mac Mini, and it works like a charm, like this. I don’t have to do anything. It finds the – I have a terabyte network storage device, it found that. It found my online server where I keep backups, throughout my music, it just does everything it’s supposed to do, and it looks great.

Leo Laporte Well, you got Boxee software, but you’re talking about the Boxee box.

Om Malik I’m using it on a Mac Mini, so I don’t even – I don’t know if [indiscernible] (65:18) actually wait for a Boxee box…

Leo Laporte Yeah. And in fact, maybe the Boxee box will be [indiscernible] (65:24) compared to a Mac Mini with Boxee running on it.

Owen JJ Stone [indiscernible] (65:26) for people getting it in their homes, not everybody’s got an extra Mac sitting around…

Leo Laporte Right.

Robert Scoble The Roku’s like, 60 bucks.

Owen JJ Stone You see what I mean? And I use [indiscernible] (65:33)

Leo Laporte What about the Apple TV? It’s pretty. Hockey puck sized.

Owen JJ Stone Mine hasn’t arrived yet. My boss got it and he loves it. He says it plays Netflix the best.


Owen JJ Stone Netflix is the best, it looks good [indiscernible] (65:47) it only does 720p, I mean…

Leo Laporte Roku’s going to do 1080p, I don’t know what Logitech’s going to end up doing, we’ll find out…

Owen JJ Stone I’m like the stepchild, I’m using Western Digital hard drives.


Om Malik I have the – the Boxee plug – has all these apps which you can plug into it, like Netflix.

Leo Laporte There’s a TWiT app!

Om Malik Twitter app for it – TWiT app. And I watched MLB, the whole season, I watched on a big screen TV using Boxee on my broadband connection. I have – I admit I do have really fast broadband, about 100 megabits a second, so.

Robert Scoble All right, this is a tough question for everybody. If you have 250 – let’s say, $250 for Christmas and you can buy one piece of electronic gear for your home theater, which includes like the Sony Move, the X-Box Kinect…

Leo Laporte Oh, and JJ Stone, what would you spend 250 on?

Owen JJ Stone I’m going with the X-Box.

Robert Scoble X-Box Kinect?

Owen JJ Stone Yeah.

Leo Laporte How about you, Robert?

Robert Scoble That’s a tough one…

Leo Laporte You asked the question, you don’t have an answer.

Robert Scoble I’ve already bought X-Box Kinect.


Leo Laporte Om, you got 250, what are you buying?

Robert Scoble I’m looking most forward to the X-Box Kinect, so.

Om Malik I’m going to buy some clothes, man.


Robert Scoble He’s a blogger! He doesn’t have money to buy toys.

Leo Laporte No, I have to agree with Owen and Robert. I think the X-Box is the best bet right now for a home theater PC. It’s got a lot of the functionality you want, it’s got Netflix, it’s got Amazon, it plays all the other stuff.

Owen JJ Stone Well, I’m assuming you already have an X-Box. I think the Kinect is going to be…

Leo Laporte I ordered – 250 is not enough, I think it was 400. But I ordered the new X-Box Elite with Kinect, which was a $400 package, a 250 gig hard drive. And I think – to me, that’s – if you want a sure thing, that’s a sure thing. But I don’t know, I’m not going to write off Google TV. I’m not even going to write off Apple TV yet. Because it may be – they put apps on this, and it’s got all the functionality of – I like my Roku, I love my Roku.

Owen JJ Stone It’s all about the user interface and what people are…

Leo Laporte Well, it’s not all about user interface…

Robert Scoble If you only have 200…

Leo Laporte It’s about content and user interface.

Owen JJ Stone Well, Google TV [indiscernible] (67:55) going to a Sony event [indiscernible] (67:56) built into the TV. So for a consumer, they don’t have to buy an extra box and plug it in and run this little extra…

Leo Laporte Well, there’s two markets. There’s the market of people buying a new TV, there’s the market of people who have a TV…

Owen JJ Stone I’m just saying, when you say like, people are going to get into it, if it’s built into the TV, that’s palatable to people, because [indiscernible] (68:14) buying a new TV, oh let’s buy the newest thing. And that’s what they do. And then they get it, and they get used to it, and they start using it.

Robert Scoble Are these good enough to stop paying cable fees? I don’t think so yet.

Leo Laporte That’s what we’re looking at, is the a la carte, buy a show at a time.

Owen JJ Stone If it wasn’t for sports, I wouldn’t have cable.

Leo Laporte Well…

Owen JJ Stone If it wasn’t for football, basketball…

Leo Laporte Om was watching Major League Baseball on a Major League Baseball app on Boxee. The money goes – Major League Baseball likes it because they get $150 in the bank, they don’t have to disintermediate – I mean they don’t have to intermediate.

Owen JJ Stone Well, they give you that for NFL and my cable TV is off.

Leo Laporte You got to think the NBA, the NFL, the National Association of Soccer, whatever it is – they’re all watching very closely to see how MLB does. Because they have an Android app, they have an iPhone app, they have a Boxee app.

Robert Scoble It was really interesting, I was at the [indiscernible] (69:00) launch party when Sam Bruno blew up. And a few of us were watching CNN Live on our iPhones…

Leo Laporte Moby TV?

Robert Scoble The other half was watching NFL live on their iPhones…

Leo Laporte Moby TV?

Robert Scoble Moby TV or something, I…

Leo Laporte Moby made a lot of money during the…

Robert Scoble We were watching football, and we had football and news all around us.

Leo Laporte I was watching the World Cup at [indiscernible] (69:21) because I bought Moby TV just to do that. That’s on an iPhone. That’s an interesting – I don’t know. We’re in a very interesting time.

Owen JJ Stone Yeah. We’re in a nice little bubble where everybody’s going to have retina screens built into their eyes and we don’t leave it. Just stuck to it. Or in your case, we’ll have headphones in because we’re listening to this audio style TWiT.

Leo Laporte Let’s talk about – oh gosh, there’s so many – I’ll do a couple of little quick stories in a bit. Get your analysis of all of them. I want to remind everybody, this portion of This Week in Tech is brought to you by my good friends at Squarespace. Life is so easy with Squarespace. is the secret behind extraordinary websites.

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So a run through a bunch of stories, you give your reactions. Google buys a company called Blind Type. We saw the demo of Blind Type, very cool. It was – a way to type into a phone without actually having a keyboard. You just kind of roughly get it right and it figures it out!

Robert Scoble Which is better, swipe or…?

Leo Laporte I love swipe and I haven’t tried Blind Type, but I imagine that they’ll make that as an option on Android. But my Motorola Droid X has swipe on it and so easy. I’ve – the iPhone’s kind of tough because I’ve got to tap my way.

Robert Scoble Yeah. I would just have to swipe and they have it –

Leo Laporte They’re great.

Robert Scoble They have it running on the iPhone.

Leo Laporte Yeah, but –

Robert Scoble They can’t distribute it.

Leo Laporte They can’t distribute it.

Owen JJ Stone And that makes me sad so –

Robert Scoble And they have been running on the iPad.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Robert Scoble They can’t distribute it.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Owen JJ Stone That disgusts me so much because I’m not the guy with two phones. And every time I use my friend’s Android, I’m like, ‘no habla espanol!’ And ‘no habla espanol’ pops up. I mean it translates…

Leo Laporte That’s amazing, isn’t it?

Owen JJ Stone And it’s so accurate – I mean when you tell somebody, they’re like, oh whatever, I would never use that. Once you start using it, drive in a vehicle or when you’re – it’s – I don’t have it so I’m upset.

Robert Scoble You’re talking about the voice.

Leo Laporte Robert and I wanted to do a debate and we should’ve done this at Foo Camp, where I would debate you, you would – at the beginning of the debate take the iPhone, I take the Android and we’ve flip in the middle. Because there’s also – there’s negatives both ways.

Robert Scoble Yeah.

Leo Laporte I happened to be – I happen to think Android is the one right now.

Owen JJ Stone My iPhone does not have a kickstand.

Leo Laporte Your EVO would have a kickstand.

Owen JJ Stone My EVO would have a kickstand.

Robert Scoble [indiscernible] (73:10) battery life. I have the EVO.

Leo Laporte No battery life. But –

Owen JJ Stone [indiscernible] (73:16) on my iPhone, I don’t have any battery either. And I got to look at it face down – I got to like sit up and look at the phone.

Leo Laporte See there’s – but there’s problems I have a lot of hangs on the Android. So it’s just – there’s this –

Robert Scoble On iPhone, we have hang ups.

Leo Laporte Hang ups or hangs, you get your choice. Well, all right, we’ll talk about Android. Microsoft suing Motorola for the Droids, saying ‘you stole our stuff, man.’ They did get –

Robert Scoble What do you think about it, Leo?

Owen JJ Stone They got Zuckerberged.

Leo Laporte They get Zuckerberged. They got –

Robert Scoble Clueless companies start suing people. It’s true. When you are losing in the marketplace, you sue.

Leo Laporte How about the security? Go ahead, Om.

Owen JJ Stone Om should come in. He’s smarter than me.

Om Malik I think they might actually have something on this one, right? They’re just trying to slow down Android a little bit. But this lawsuit given that Windows 7 is coming out soon. So I think it would be interesting. My view is, the battle will be between Windows 7 and Android for the enterprise, just wait and see. And that is going to cause all sorts of –

Leo Laporte What happens to RIM? What happens to BlackBerry? Are they gone?

Om Malik I think BlackBerry has lost a lot of momentum, especially in the enterprise. I mean not because of making like a bad product, they just – there are just more options for the enterprise now. I think that’s the key thing, right? There was – initially, they were just the only game in town. Now there’s a lot of people like to use different devices. The actual end users are more in control of their buying decisions on the enterprise equipment. So I think they have a little bit of challenge. I think Windows Phone, which I saw few days ago at our mobilized conference, it’s actually pretty good.

Owen JJ Stone It looks awesome.

Om Malik Yeah, I was pleasantly surprised.

Robert Scoble It was a lot better than Nokia N8.

Leo Laporte Yeah, poor Nokia. I guess if you have to pick one loser in all of this, is Nokia.

Om Malik No.

Owen JJ Stone Not in certain markets.

Leo Laporte Well, they still sell more phones than anybody.

Owen JJ Stone I was about to say, don’t feel so bad.

Leo Laporte No, no but we’re talking about the trend, not actual numbers.

Owen JJ Stone We’re talking about our bubble.

Leo Laporte Well, the trend’s not good for Nokia either.

Om Malik Now, I would disagree with you on that. They have with the N8 for the first time, a phone they can compete in the market with. I didn’t say actually –

Robert Scoble I disagree. It’s competent, but it’s not exciting and I – if you compare it to the iPhone, the Android and the Windows mobile, I think all three of the other ones are better than that.

Om Malik Robert, if you were a Nokia customer in non-U.S. and European countries where iPhone and Android are still somewhat of a less of an option, you always got angry every time you bought a Nokia phone. It wasn’t really very good, it wasn’t really – the touch wasn’t really that effective. They were just – it wasn’t really comparative to any of the Android phones and the iPhone. But now they actually have a device which [indiscernible] (76:47) a lot of copies in their traditional strength markets like India, China, Brazil, Russia.

Robert Scoble A European executive brought me the N98 and he was using an iPhone. He said, this is nice. It’s a nice Nokia phone, it’s a competent Nokia phone, it feels good, thought the engineering is good, the camera is awesome on it.

Leo Laporte 12 megapixels.

Robert Scoble But Nokia always had awesome cameras. That’s never been the reason to buy a Nokia, right?

Om Malik I’ve been using it for the last couple of days, three days for now. And it doesn’t make me as angry as some of the others did.

Leo Laporte There’s – there’s high praise. It doesn’t make me as angry as the…

Robert Scoble That’s an indictment when you have so many choices in mobile phones for the smartphones.

Owen JJ Stone Why aren’t we talking about Palm?

Robert Scoble Well, Palm is a different problem.

Om Malik They are part of HP, so there it goes.

Robert Scoble I mean – that’s the new CEO’s number one job is to make sure that they have a competent effort on tablets and some phones.

Leo Laporte RIM’s playbook – is this a competitor? HP says they’re going to do Palm Pad, RIM’s got the playbook, at least they announced they have –

Robert Scoble Did they let journalist touch it? Om, have you touched a Palm Pad?

Om Malik No, no.

Leo Laporte Aura playbook, Aura playbook.

Robert Scoble Unlike when Apple brings out – when Apple announces – Om’s been to lots of Apple events, you’ve been at Apple events, I’ve been – when you have –

Leo Laporte Not anymore. I’ll never go – apparently, I’ll never be invited again. But that’s okay.

Robert Scoble When Steve Jobs brings out something, they let you play with it right there, right?

Leo Laporte Right.

Robert Scoble I played with the iPhone 4 at the iPhone 4 hub.

Leo Laporte No, I agree.

Robert Scoble They brought a whole bunch of journalists into a room and announced this prior, and didn’t let them touch it. And nobody’s seen one. There haven’t actually been leaked videos. I mean Engadget gets leaked videos and Gizmodo finds phones on bar stools. And they haven’t found one.

Leo Laporte There is no playbook. There’s no playbook. How about a Palm Pad?

Robert Scoble What do you think it? I mean, Om, do you think that they have a shot it all in the tablet world?

Om Malik I love using BlackBerry. That is my primary device. So I hope they have a shot in all of it. But I don’t think – recent moves are not inspiring confidence, to be very honest. I think they came out with that new BlackBerry Touch which will have touch and a new browser. And it’s somewhat of a disappointment. I think the playbook, whenever it comes out, maybe an interesting product. But it remains to be seen when they come out with it, right? To talk about it today and not come out for another 12 months, that’s a different story. I think that’s when you start to lose attention. My view is that this market will be a lot of – it will be around the Android tablet action, right? Just the enterprise and you know –

Leo Laporte Whose Android tablet are you excited about, Samsung?

Om Malik Samsung. I think after Apple, Samsung just might be the most interesting smartphone and tablet company out there as you know.

Robert Scoble I think Samsung is doing some awesome strategy. I mean they have the best TVs, they have the best screens. I mean you have been praising them – the laptop, the cell phones. I’m not even sure that it matters what Samsung comes out with. It’s the family of screens they’re doing and they seem pretty interesting. By the way, you should teach people media training, or – I don’t know where to look.

Leo Laporte Look at me, always look at me.

Robert Scoble The camera is there.

Leo Laporte Don’t look at the camera.

Robert Scoble I’m looking over the side [indiscernible] (80:02).

Leo Laporte Look at me.

Owen JJ Stone Wherever you are looking, we’ll take care of it.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Owen JJ Stone That’s part of Leo’s job.

Leo Laporte Yeah, it’s my job. It’s always little – it’s always little where people look at the camera when they are a guest. It’s like, what are you looking at? Now, look at me. I’m here. I’m here for you, Robert.

Robert Scoble Thank you.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Owen JJ Stone You know what you should do.

Leo Laporte What should I do?

Owen JJ Stone Uncle Leo, show Robert your license. He looks like Robert Scoble in his driver’s license.

Leo Laporte I do?

Owen JJ Stone You look like Robert Scoble.

Leo Laporte How do you even know?

Owen JJ Stone I went through your wallet last time whilst I was here.

Leo Laporte [Laughter] Forerunner!

Owen JJ Stone Don’t tell anybody, Uncle Leo.

Leo Laporte So, Om, you are going to stick with that Nokia or…?

Om Malik I’m still a BlackBerry guy.

Owen JJ Stone You’re a BlackBerry guy?

Leo Laporte Which BlackBerry do you use?

Om Malik I use BlackBerry Bold.

Leo Laporte Not the Torch?

Om Malik No, I don’t use any of the new ones. I just use BlackBerry Bold. It works, it has GW, UMA on and I use it on T-Mobile. So it just picks up Wi-Fi in my apartment. It works, it’s rock solid. And there is no coverage on T-Mobile. I turn on the Sprint 4G MiFi and used that as a backbone to get access to my voice calls.

Robert Scoble I think it’s – I think it’s a lackey world where Om is talking about Windows winning the enterprise with a phone that doesn’t have a [indiscernible] (81:29). Can you imagine talking in that way five years from now?

Om Malik I didn’t – I didn’t say they will in. I think they are going to make things very interesting. They have a half a decent product. I think there is a big difference from declaring a winner and saying this isn’t a competitive offering.

Robert Scoble Right.

Om Malik There’s huge difference in that. So I think similarly, N8 is a very competitive offering whether it wins the market, we don’t know. And from that perspective, I think in both the Palm pad and playbook seem like a bit of a stretch because they don’t really exist and everything is just all talk. So that’s the key thing. But definitely – one needs to kind of keep an open mind on various different things. I love the iPhone. I just – I wish they were not on AT&T. I mean it just – if they were not on AT&T and on any other network which actually could make phone calls, I would switch back to the iPhone.

Leo Laporte So it’s actually why I use a Droid X, because I want Verizon’s…

Om Malik I mean I have no qualms with the device. I absolutely despise the network.

Owen JJ Stone I hope Windows does great, because they – the community they built an Xbox that we talked about earlier, is pretty much flawless. I mean top to bottom, the streaming, the community, the way it connects, it shares, photos, everything. And that phone gives me that feeling, like when I use an Xbox. And that’s a really good feeling to have. And I haven’t have a feeling like that about a Windows mobile product since they were the first ones in the market and I thought I was cool with my brick phone that I could open up a word document on. I mean, that’s the other thing, they’re creating an emotion with the ways it’s presented to you.

Leo Laporte I would just like to point out that all the excitement happening in technology today is happening in phones. I mean it really is.

Owen JJ Stone A computer in the palm of your hand.

Leo Laporte It really is interesting. We don’t – you guys hardly talk about desktop or even laptop computers.

Robert Scoble I mean I still see a lot to startups bringing out stuff for desktop for normal web browsers at least. It’s just not as interesting to me as…

Leo Laporte Worst than middleware.

Robert Scoble I mean, think of it. We have 250,000 apps to choose from. Me and you started this show by comparing how many apps we have on our show – on our phones. We have 100 or 200 apps.

Leo Laporte I wonder how many apps are in my desktop, actually. That’s an interesting question, yeah.

Robert Scoble Well, it’s really interesting when you meet somebody in a plane or something that has a Windows XP machine, and then you meet somebody who has an iPad or iPhone or an Android phone and compare how many new apps they’ve tried in the last year?

Leo Laporte Hardly any.

Robert Scoble The XP guys – hardly any. None. I’ve never seen new stuff.

Leo Laporte Well, that’s because you’re using XP, they’re already self-selective people who are not going to upgrade.

Robert Scoble Right. But that’s why I like sitting next to people who tried – who are trying new things.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Do you find it interesting that the vast majority of Windows users are still using Windows XP? I think I’m trying to find the percentage here. I think it’s 60%, 60%.

Robert Scoble Did Windows 7 finally passed them? Not even close.

Leo Laporte No. Most Windows users still run Windows XP. 66%, two-thirds of all Windows users.

Owen JJ Stone I’m still stuck on Vista because I just – because I’m in the middle of the pack, whatever. I used it, it works.

Robert Scoble You upgrade to IE 9?

Owen JJ Stone Yeah and it works. I mean, I’m running 12 Gigs RAM, nice core processor and that’s [indiscernible] (84:50).

Robert Scoble You’re still using a MAC here, man.

Owen JJ Stone I use both. [indiscernible] (84:55) opportunity.

Robert Scoble You brought the MAC.

Leo Laporte Yeah, which one he has with him?

Robert Scoble I have Windows desktop.

Owen JJ Stone Don’t get me in trouble, Rob. I’m not [indiscernible] (85:04) against you. Don’t talk to me like that.

Leo Laporte Right. We’re going to have a little mock funeral right now. Today, Xmarks – this week Xmarks announced that they are going to go out of business. The company started as Foxmarks later supported by Mitch Kapor, put some money behind it, ended up synchronizing bookmarks for all the major browser platforms, passwords too. I think more people use X. I mean everybody I talked has gone, what are we going to do without Xmarks?

Robert Scoble The president of my company, Rackspace, is pissed that this is going away.

Leo Laporte Yeah. So they have actually done something interesting if you go to the Xmarks blog, they are saying well, you know, we – when we started this, we thought it might be a freemium service. And the .001% of – users paid for it. Okay. Scratch off the list. So they said, well, now I know we are going to do – we are going to collect a billion bookmarks in the service. We’ll come up within services that massage that data, do some data mining and it’ll be incredibly valuable. They said, yeah, we collected a billion bookmarks, we never did come up with anything that we could with these billion bookmarks. Now they are trying to get people to pledge. If you go to PledgeBank, they’re trying to get a 100,000 users to say we will pay $10 to $20 a year to pay for Xmarks and if they get a 100,000 people saying the will, I’m sure this PledgeBank actually take the money if they go ahead with it so it’s like – are you just promising to pay or you’re actually committed.

Om Malik I can – you know, I’d love to say something here Leo, I think this episode, the sad story of Xmarks is also ties to our earlier comment about or discussion about some of the startups getting started for very little money and getting, you know going. But the problem we have right now is that many of these interesting web services never think about the option of being a business, right.

Leo Laporte Right

Om Malik They never really think it through and in the end, they meet the fate of Xmarks. I think it behooves us to remind all entrepreneurs to think about – there’s great things to build, but there needs to be a business which needs to be built alongside your idea.

Leo Laporte Do you think Mitch Kapor would have had this sense to – I mean it sounds reasonable that you would maybe be able to mine those bookmarks for something, make it worth something. So now if you go to PledgeBank you can pledge to keep Xmarks alive, you have to pledge I’ll commit $10-$20 a year for Xmarks sync but only if a 100,000 other people will do the same.

Owen JJ Stone If it’s not making any money, it’s not a business.

Leo Laporte You know who should, you know who should buy them? Yahoo! should buy them, integrate it with Delicious.

Om Malik That’s like a good idea.

Leo Laporte Delicious needs something. I don’t know how Yahoo! makes any money on it. Do they make any money on Delicious, probably not.

Om Malik Who knows what Yahoo! does.


Owen JJ Stone I think we were all thinking the exact same thought.

Leo Laporte I was in the locker room today talking to a guy who trains Yellow Pages salesmen. People who sell the Yellow Pages on how to use the internet. He said that he could not find a group of people less likely to want to use the internet than people who are selling the Yellow Pages. And I had to think well, how long before we are going to stop getting dead trees versions of the phone directory and the Yellow Pages in our driveway?

Owen JJ Stone And those salesmen are very serious like…

Leo Laporte Like a heart attack.

Owen JJ Stone Every year they come around and the guy tells me, he is like, ‘and we’re going to register you with all the web browsers.’ And every year I tell them no, I can do that myself for my business site, I’m on the internet. And he’s like, ‘but you don’t understand how important it is to register your website with all the browsers.’ I’m like it’s in the Yellow Pages, people will find it in there, I don’t need your internet service. And they don’t even know how to sell their internet services properly. It’s very interesting. I’m like, they send these guys out there and they get people who are entrepreneurs or business owners who don’t know any better, they will just fork over you know 200 bucks to do whatever, register their website, it’s bad. So somebody needs to train these guys up on how to use internet.

Robert Scoble This is why momentum is so important in business. People keep buying it just because. They don’t know any better and don’t rethink it. But they’ve started to rethink it, because the world has changed today. You know, your customers are coming in with Yelp and Google.

Owen JJ Stone What you say is nice if they even wanted to offer me an internet service. But you know they’re franchises. So we do our own kind of marketing with that business and they don’t – they just want to sell what they want to sell.

Leo Laporte They are not looking at Yelps or anything yet.

Robert Scoble They are just we want you on the yellow pages and we are going to do it digitally and we are going to register you and that’s their bottom-line pitch. They haven’t even looked at other opportunities that actually get people revenue and business that they can help them with and make more money for themselves.

Leo Laporte I have to pledge this.

Robert Scoble Om, what do you think about Foursquare location based services? Facebook Places, all that fun stuff?

Om Malik Well you know, what precisely do you want to talk about on that?

Robert Scoble I don’t know, I threw a softball over the home place so you could hit it out of the park.


Leo Laporte What do you think, Om?

Om Malik Rob, you threw a softball, it turned out to be a pretty big curve ball. I think location is definitely one of the more interesting way to contextualize information, right? Just like social is a great way to contextualize data, the implication is exactly that. And there’s a lot of interesting thing which are going to happen when we start to combine social, location and other ways of context and starting to add and mash up web and data services. So that will be pretty interesting. I think the more interesting thing – we need to watch for is this whole emergence of flash social commerce. I think that is very, very interesting. You know when I say flash social commerce, it’s like what people like Groupon do but only from a mobile perspective. I think that’s what is going to be a very interesting aspect of the industry from a location standpoint.

Leo Laporte Foursquare is the big winner at this point?

Om Malik You know, they are definitely one of the companies which have a lot of attention.

Leo Laporte Gowalla have a chance?

Om Malik I wouldn’t dismiss them but I just feel Foursquare has more momentum.

Leo Laporte Facebook Places?

Om Malik Facebook Places obviously has a lot of momentum. But I definitely think that Foursquare is getting a bulk share of media and user attention. So are other companies. I mean, its not, you know dismissed there will be a – Google will do something here, and I think with their Latitude product, you’ll see more and more interesting stuff comes from Facebook as well.

Owen JJ Stone Om, have you heard anything about the new Google stuff coming out? My sources [indiscernible] (92:26) nothing at all.

Leo Laporte Like googleme?

Om Malik I don’t know, I hope they do bring something out. I’m not putting a lot of weight in those rumors. And I still don’t think Google – they may have bought a lot of companies, but they still don’t quite get social. I would love to be proven wrong. From my sources, from what I hear is that most of their effort is around digital goods and digital media. And I think that’s where they are going to focus a lot more.

Leo Laporte You mean like Zynga style digital goods?

Om Malik Yeah, that’s the kind of – you know, that’s a lot of, that’s a big revenue opportunity, but...

Leo Laporte Yeah. Plus the cost of production is quite low on bits.

Om Malik Exactly, but you also have to remember that if you look at it at a larger landscape, digital goods are what people are buying these days on the web, which is what they need to do.

Leo Laporte It’s kind of sad.

Om Malik Which is what you need to – Google needs to do in order to make Google Checkout a successful service. It’s a bit of big player in the whole digital payment space. But if you marry it to a digital content, like you know it maybe birthday cards or Zynga games or [indiscernible] (93:57) or whatever. But if it gets people signed up for their Google Checkout, I think even they would have won a little bit from that perspective.

Leo Laporte Om Malik writes for and does conferences and all sort of other stuff and it’s a great site, must read every single day. Om, it’s so great to have you on the show, thank you so much for being here.

Om Malik Thank you Leo and it’s great to be with you.

Leo Laporte Robert Scoble is the Scobleizer, he is at

Robert Scoble And I work at Rackspace.

Leo Laporte And he works at Rackspace, where – I saw your title, you’re like a director.

Robert Scoble I don’t even know what I am.

Leo Laporte You are a director.

Robert Scoble I really don’t care.

Leo Laporte Its good stuff.

Robert Scoble I’m an evangelist and I around and learn about the bleeding edge of the internet.

Leo Laporte And you can see those videos at

Robert Scoble And building 43.

Leo Laporte Building 43, that’s right.

Owen JJ Stone is Ohdoctah. He is a social media expert if you’re looking for help on the social media, Twitter front.

Robert Scoble I need some help now.

Owen JJ Stone I’ll help you out. I can make people not hate you.

Robert Scoble That’s no fun.

Owen JJ Stone First time I was on, they said, why’s this guy on Twit? He doesn’t have a Wikipedia page!

Robert Scoble By the end they loved me.

Leo Laporte Here you go. Wait a minute, you don’t have a Wikipedia page?

Owen JJ Stone Not really.

Robert Scoble How did you get on the show?


Owen JJ Stone You know what the best thing was? I walk in, I’ve met Leo many a times. Like, he comes in, he’s like, so what do you famous for? And I’m like, people like me.

Leo Laporte That is, that’s what he is famous for.

Robert Scoble No, I’m not famous for anything.

Leo Laporte Nice rack. Okay, We better wrap this sucker up.

I want to thank our sponsors, Carbonite Square Space at Ford. We don’t know why they’re here, but thank you guys for being here. I want to thank you all for watching the show. We do it live every Sunday after 6 PM Eastern, 3 PM Pacific. That’s 22:00 UTC at You could chat along with the show at And if you like tech news and you want to keep up with the tech news all week long, don’t forget Tom Merritt at Technews Today. That’s every Monday through Friday at 5:30 Eastern, 2:30 pacific, 21:30 UTC at

Thank you all for being here. We will see you next week in another TWiT.

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