TWiT 279/Transcript

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This WEEK in TECH 279: Sanitized For Your Protection December 19, 2010

Introduction Netcast you love. From people you trust. This is TWiT.

Leo Laporte Audio bandwidth for this WEEK in TECH is provided by Winamp for Android, the ultimate media player for your desktop and Android device, featuring wireless sync download it free at Video bandwidth for TWiT is provided by Cachefly at

This is TWiT: this WEEK in TECH, Episode 279, recorded December 19, 2010: Sanitized For Your Protection.

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It’s time for TWiT, this WEEK in TECH, and joining us in studio to talk about this week’s tech news Mr. Jim Louderback, the CEO of Revision3, it’s great to see you again Jimmy.

Jim Louderback It’s good to see you too Leo.

Leo Laporte Jimmy, my friend.

Jim Louderback It’s nice to be here too.

Leo Laporte We were reminiscing before this show, we go way back to ’94.

Jim Louderback I think it is ’92 or ’93.

Leo Laporte ’92 or ’93.

Jim Louderback I think ’93, people say like I have been working with Leo for 17 years off and on.

Leo Laporte Jeez Louise, yes.

Jim Louderback It’s a long time.

Leo Laporte You were in PC Magazine’s Labs…

Jim Louderback PC Week Labs.

Leo Laporte PC Week Labs, that’s right.

Jim Louderback Yes.

Leo Laporte And Ziff Davis hired me, poor wretched that I am to do a show called the Personal Computing Show which we worked on together with Gina Smith, who is on assignment at CES but she won’t tell anybody where.

Jim Louderback Or who.

Leo Laporte So she is back in the game.

Jim Louderback Cool, good for Gina.

Leo Laporte Let’s say hello also to Natali Morris, newly named, newly coined, you may remember her it’s Natali Del Conte, hey Natali.

Natali Morris The artist formerly known as Del Conte, yes, that’s true.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Natali Morris It’s Morris now.

Leo Laporte So it’s now official, you know, we know you had a baby, what’s your baby’s name again?

Natali Morris Yes, his name is Myles.

Leo Laporte That’s right Myles, and Myles’ dad Clayton Morris, of FOX & Friends…

Natali Morris Yes.

Leo Laporte Happens to be your husband or did you just take his name?

Natali Morris No, I didn’t just take the name, that would be kind of presumptuous, I suppose. We did in fact get married.

Leo Laporte Congratulations. So I think since I saw you last you got married.

Natali Morris Thank you.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Natali Morris Yes, yes, so it’s not Del Conte anymore but…

Leo Laporte That’s great.

Natali Morris Yes, I still own the Twitter handle but don’t tweet from there anymore.

Leo Laporte So is your Twitter handle now Natali Morris?

Natali Morris Yes, that’s a great thing about Twitter, is you can just change your user name whenever you want to and not lose your followers, it’s was really great of them to have the foresight to design that into their system, I think.

Leo Laporte I wonder if it was foresight or just…

Jim Louderback Yes.

Leo Laporte Just whoops, we forgot to, we forgot that part. Well, anyway…

Natali Morris Maybe I think we can give them the credit. So if you want to change your name anytime soon you are free to keep your followers.

Leo Laporte I have changed the capitalization that’s all I have ever changed. I changed the intercap on my name.

Jim Louderback How long – when did you do that?

Leo Laporte I go back and forth. You know what’s bad though is you lose you’re the little checkmark, your verified checkmark if you do stuff like that, so you don’t want to do that too much. Then they come back later and they do it. Natali works for CBS of course and use to – you still do Buzz Out Loud once in a while?

Natali Morris Sometimes, not quite as often, I took a 404 a lot more than I do Buzz Out Loud.

Leo Laporte Yes, yes, and…

Natali Morris Yes, so but my daily show is Loaded which you can find at

Leo Laporte Loaded. She is loaded; also here with us it’s great to have him on that – worked very hard to pronounce his name, well I know his name Marshall Kirkpatrick, see now I screwed that up. Marshall Kirkpatrick.

Marshall Kirkpatrick Hey Leo. Thanks a bunch for…

Leo Laporte But the company he works for is Hey, I got it.

Marshall Kirkpatrick That’s awesome.

Marshall Kirkpatrick Feel free to wear it out.

Leo Laporte ReadWriteWeb, oh no, a great site actually if you are following what’s going on on the Internet. Yes. And Marshall does the news portion of ReadWriteWeb.

Marshall Kirkpatrick It’s true, I’m – I got the same Twitter name I always have, I just checked and @Mr. Neckbeard is already taken so I won’t be switching that, I’m keeping my followers.

Leo Laporte So what do we think the big story, I’m not even going to presume, what do we think the big story of the week was this week? I know what a big story for me was Yahoo! saying we are going to get rid of Delicious. Actually Yahoo! didn’t say it, they’ve had it on a slide at a Yahoo! all hands meeting, a slide that leaked out of Yahoo! and then the people at Delicious said, no, no, no we are not going to kill it, we just want to sell it to somebody who won’t kill it.

Jim Louderback It’s just pining for the fjords.

Leo Laporte It’s not dead yet. I don’t know, I actually probably used Delicious more than most. I don’t think bookmark services are particularly vital.

Natali Morris I use it a lot.

Leo Laporte Do you?

Jim Louderback I do too.

Leo Laporte Oh okay. So, maybe it’s those of us who cover tech stories use it.

Natali Morris Yes, I love it for recipes, and travel when I want to remember hotels or thing like that abroad, I bookmark on Delicious and I feel like it just hasn’t gone that far because it’s still too hard to do it, really relied on the plug in ecosystem which most people don’t do and I think Yahoo! could have made that really consumer-friendly, for some reason they just didn’t and just like one of those things where a company buys another company that’s cool and does absolutely zero and that’s frustrating.

Leo Laporte They never improved it. They just let it. The only thing they did as far as I could tell is changed to which in and of itself is valuable, but a lot of users them

Natali Morris And they added universal log in from Yahoo!

Leo Laporte Right, which broke a lot of third party log-ins.

Jim Louderback Yes, big deal.

Leo Laporte And they started using a lot.

Jim Louderback The trouble with all of it is that Yahoo! never rally figured out who they were and they bought all these companies…

Leo Laporte Do you think that they are – this is really the beginning and they laid off what 4% of their work force, which isn’t that many, but…

Jim Louderback What I thought was interesting is that 4% of their workforce is like about 400 people.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Jim Louderback I had no idea that they have that few people working there.

Leo Laporte Yes, it’s not that many.

Jim Louderback You think of Yahoo! and you think 4% of the workforce, that’s going to be thousands of people.

Leo Laporte How many, Google’s got what 40 or 50,000 employees? How many, I mean Yahoo! is not that big.

Jim Louderback Yes. They got to be done like…

Leo Laporte They have a lot of properties and many of these properties like Buzz, Yahoo! Buzz, which I thought was a huge success in fact I remember very well that one of the things people would say is well, you think Digg is big, well you should see how big Buzz is. Meaning many, many more users but mostly because of My Yahoo!, the homepage and so forth, but that’s going to be phased out, what is – and it is really feels like Yahoo! just shut off the lights and go to bed. Is that your take on it, Marshall?

Marshall Kirkpatrick I don’t know that that’s the case, I mean my personal interest in it wanes every time a more developer-focused really innovative little startup project gets shut down…

Leo Laporte Yes.

Marshall Kirkpatrick But it is – it remains one of the most popular domains on the web that’s big in email, I think that they are going to be doing okay although we used to say the same thing about MySpace, not so long ago; they still have a lot of traffic. But yes, I expect it to be a slow demise if it turns out to be a demise and maybe they’ll just turn out to be the media and advertising company that they wanted to be for some time.

Leo Laporte So, MyBlogLog, going to be phased out, Yahoo! Bookmarks, Yahoo! Picks, merged instead of phased out Upcoming which I really liked as a invite site, I use Upcoming all the time, Fire Eagle, which was their location aggregation site, then they said, well, we are not going to kill Delicious, we are going to sell it, and by the way Kevin Rose just tweeted that he wants to buy it, I think he’d be a good person to buy it. He is friends with Joshua.

Marshall Kirkpatrick Yes.

Leo Laporte He probably could bring Joshua Schachter back in.

Jim Louderback He can definitely bring him back.

Leo Laporte The guy who started it.

Jim Louderback Or try to. You know the problem with Yahoo! overall though Leo, back in 2005, they offered me a job to come in and start Yahoo! Tech, didn’t really do it.

Leo Laporte Oh really?

Jim Louderback Yes, but one of the things that I thought, so I was talking to one of the…

Leo Laporte Would it be – is a video thing you mean or…

Jim Louderback No, no, just Yahoo! Tech, this is one…

Leo Laporte A page like Yahoo! Finance.

Jim Louderback Yes, so Yahoo! Tech.

Natali Morris This is when we were both at PC Magazine.

Jim Louderback This is where we were both at PC Mag, because the guy…

Natali Morris Jim was my boss, I think people don’t know that.

Leo Laporte I didn’t know that.

Jim Louderback Oh, yes.

Natali Morris Yes, Jim used to be my boss.

Jim Louderback Yes.

Natali Morris When I was a writer at PC Mag.

Leo Laporte Used to be my boss too. Did he used to be your boss Marshall?

Jim Louderback No, Marshall has never…

Marshall Kirkpatrick Not yet…

Jim Louderback Never had to suffer the pain of working for me, but – so, you know what I found out, I talked to one of the HR guys and I said, okay, how are people successful at Yahoo!? And he said, oh the people are really successful at Yahoo!, not the ones that are really good at getting things done, but they are the ones who are really good at negotiating with other people to do things for them, really like Tom Sawyer painting the fence.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Jim Louderback And that’s turned me off 100%, I said, and it’s obvious, they bring these great things in from outside and instead of giving these great things the ability to go out and do great things they put them in this bureaucracy where they’ve got to work the system to get anything done and that’s why Delicious hasn’t changed for what 10 years or ever long it’s been there. Leo Laporte Right.

Jim Louderback Count them all down…

Natali Morris But it’s like do they have no original ideas of their own? Google went and bought YouTube and then they went and bought Jumpcut. And then Google is buying all these companies and they are like, oh, let’s try Flickr then and – but again they just don’t do anything with it. You’d like to think that a company this big has got some kind of larger vision or at least AOL which is completely changing their vision now to become a content producer which I think is compelling.

Leo Laporte You know – go ahead, go ahead, Marshall.

Marshall Kirkpatrick Yahoo!’s live video offering was really cool for the six weeks that they let it lived before killing it.

Natali Morris Yeah.

Marshall Kirkpatrick And some of the stuff – some of the geo-location stuff, Yahoo! Pipes, Yahoo! Query Language, things like that are really – and the interface libraries, some of the developer focused stuff that they are doing at Yahoo! is real original and very widely appreciated if not a big driver of revenue.

Leo Laporte One of the things people said anonymously about Yahoo! is that it was a very meeting-driven culture, that you really didn’t spend much time on your product; you spent most of your time in meetings defending your product.

Jim Louderback Yeah, and trying to get other people – like if you wanted a design done for your product you couldn’t have a designer on staff, you had to go to the central design group.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Jim Louderback And get on somebody scheduled to get them to give you the time to – and the same thing went with everything.

Leo Laporte Something Google seems to be starting to suffer the same kind of arteriosclerosis, that happens to these big companies but in order to avoid that they do have at least these kind of units that work autonomously. And I think the idea is to keep a start-up mentality in these groups. And which is why you – and there is a problem with that too because you see Google products launch kind of like last week, four products launched all at the same time because there is no coordination. They are all kind of on their own. When they are done they launch. It’s difficult. If you look at Microsoft, I think that’s part of the problem at Microsoft was there are a lot of individual fiefdoms all of which competing with one another and it got pretty vicious in there. So it’s very difficult to get in tech at least a company to grow, become big, and keep that nimbleness, that spirit of entrepreneurship, it’s hard to do.

Natali Morris But I will say that at least the PR people at Google know what’s launching when it’s going to launch. So someone is keeping track of everything.

Leo Laporte Somebody knows.

Natali Morris Whereas at Yahoo!, if you wanted to say, hey, when are you going to do this or when are you going to do that, they had like four different PR agencies working for them. They never knew who represented, say, Flickr versus who represented, Yahoo! Maps. You could never find someone that you wanted to talk to. So it was sort of --

Jim Louderback That’s interesting.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Natali Morris It showed that no one knew what the whole company was doing. It was the right foot never – or what’s the saying, right hand never knew what the left hand was doing.

Leo Laporte Let alone the feet.

Jim Louderback Yeah.

Natali Morris Right.

Leo Laporte Well, it’s true. Google, they do know what’s going on but they don’t have any control of it. So last week they announced, what, they announced Google Books, the Cr-48, the Nexus S and I mean all at the same time, which would normally if you’re Apple – see, maybe Apple is an example of a company that has very tight control of this and –

Jim Louderback Although think about the way Apple built the Mac, right? Steve Jobs took the guys who built the original Mac --

Leo Laporte They had to, yeah.

Jim Louderback And put them in a separate building --

Leo Laporte Right.

Jim Louderback Off campus.

Leo Laporte Put up a pirate flag that said we are not part of the company.

Jim Louderback And it worked.

Leo Laporte It did work. It did work. Apple succeeds at avoiding this because it’s just one guy.

Jim Louderback Yeah.

Leo Laporte Everybody works for one guy. And he says what goes and, boy, you don’t launch a product unless Steve Jobs says it goes, right?

Jim Louderback Well, he also has the product vision to enable --

Leo Laporte And he does that right.

Jim Louderback -- successful things to launch.

Leo Laporte He does that --

Jim Louderback I mean you can say whatever you want about Carol Bartz. She was really good at Autodesk but she doesn’t seem to have the product vision for what they need at Yahoo!

Leo Laporte I love this and, Marshall, you wrote about this in ReadWriteWeb, Yahoo! blamed the press for the whole Delicious debacle. You shouldn’t have published that story. It’s your fault.

Marshall Kirkpatrick Yeah.

Natali Morris And now Delicious is dead.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Marshall Kirkpatrick That was unfortunate for sure.

Leo Laporte Yeah, for the media.

Marshall Kirkpatrick We’ll see. Hopefully, the tools will remain available and people will keep using them. But I am sure, every one of those missteps led more people away from contributing content to Delicious.

Leo Laporte You point out and I think this is a good model that when – that Google gave the Wave code to the Apache Foundation, they open-sourced it. Maybe that’s what you do with Delicious.

Marshall Kirkpatrick Possibly, though, there is an article that just hit Techmeme a few minutes ago from a former Delicious engineer who said that that really wasn’t viable because there was enough proprietary Yahoo! code in there that that’s going to be a lot easier said than done. And one of the other things that we have pointed out and that other people have pointed out is the fact that apparently Yahoo! has fired most of the people who knew how to run the machines there. And so what are they selling?

Leo Laporte Holy cow.

Marshall Kirkpatrick Now that’s going to be a tough thing to sell too. And it’s such a crying shame. Now Gabe Rivera from Techmeme called Delicious an uberseminal app for all of Web 2.0 and it wasn’t just a bookmarking service. It was a really potent tool and a symbol and one of the coolest things that came out in that early era of Web 2.0. And it’s just tragic to see what’s happened to it.

Leo Laporte I am using Pinboard now. In fact we’re going to interview the guy who created Pinboard on net@night on Tuesday. And he uses the Delicious API. So there is a Delicious API that’s public and as a result Pinboard, which is very simple, very clean, very kind of fundamental and basic, to me, feels like Delicious would have been had they allowed it to improve and get better and so forth.

Marshall Kirkpatrick So, Leo, are you able to in Pinboard see other people’s bookmarks and see the most popular URLs --

Leo Laporte Yes.

Marshall Kirkpatrick -- categorized with certain keywords?

Leo Laporte Yes.

Marshall Kirkpatrick As we can in Delicious?

Leo Laporte Yes. There is public and private posts. If you go to the Pinboard – it’s, you go to the front page, they have popular. Now the popular is not as good as Delicious because there is not as many people using it. The other thing they did which I felt was kind of interesting, I think it’s just one guy, is he charges – it’s not free, but he charges $0.001 per user, so if you’ve users 10,000, you pay a buck or whatever it is, and the more users the more you pay, so it’s – I paid $7. So there is more incentive to get in early. It does import from Delicious. But there are some features that I liked in Delicious. I loved it. With delicious you could use four colon and tag something and put it in somebody’s inbox, I don’t see that inbox feature here. There is also Diigo which is – actually there is a lot more features, seems like a lot more elaborate.

Natali Morris I use Evernote.

Leo Laporte Really, for you bookmarking?

Natali Morris And I used to use Furl, if you remember that, that was --

Leo Laporte Oh! I love Furl. I love Furl.

Natali Morris Furl was much better and when they shut that down, then I migrated over to Delicious and now when I have to go to Evernote, I feel like I am being chased all over the web and I feel like it’s because no one will do this in a way that’s simple enough for the general consumer to get on board with. It’s still sort of the geeky thing to do.

Leo Laporte I think that’s part of the problem. I think that’s part of the problem is that nobody even understands why you would do it. There is no – nobody has been able to make this kind of a clear – you disagree, Marshall?

Marshall Kirkpatrick I do. Yeah, I think back to conversations I have had with a lot of non-technical family members where I told them you can bookmark things on the Internet so that you can access your bookmark from any computer and their eyes light up.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Marshall Kirkpatrick And that simplest value proposition I think is compelling and it’s just a matter of letting people know that it’s out there and then making it a friendly enough place to be once they first arrive.

Jim Louderback Well, here’s --

Natali Morris Yeah, I have a friend who planned her whole wedding by bookmarking on her computer. I was like, what if your computer crushes? You won’t know where to get, your address, your cake, like all of that stuff, and she is like, no, it’s fine. It will be fine.

Leo Laporte Computers never crash.

Natali Morris Yeah.

Jim Louderback Well, maybe what we’re seeing here, and you brought it up with Pinboard is you have to pay for Pinboard. Maybe what we’re seeing here --

Leo Laporte I don’t mind that.

Jim Louderback But exactly, maybe we’re seeing the end of the free web.

Leo Laporte That might be.

Jim Louderback But this is a great service. We all love it. I have never paid a dime for Delicious. Natali, did you have ever pay a dime for Delicious?

Natali Morris No. Actually I think --

Leo Laporte And there was really no way for Delicious to make money. How do you monetize Delicious?

Jim Louderback Yeah, exactly.

Leo Laporte There is no ads.

Jim Louderback If it’s a good enough service, you should pay for it.

Leo Laporte That’s what I feel.

Jim Louderback And maybe what Kevin is doing is right. He likes it enough. But he wants to buy the company. It’s like Victor Kiam, buying the razor – the Remington. You guys remember?

Leo Laporte Kevin has always been – he’s friends with Joshua Schachter, who wrote Delicious. He’s always been kind of a fan – Digg in some ways had some similar – it actually is kind of complementary to Digg. So maybe that’s the way to do it, I don’t know.

Marshall Kirkpatrick Well, Delicious has at times at least influenced Yahoo!’s search results.

Leo Laporte Oh! That’s interesting.

Marshall Kirkpatrick And so there is some monetization going on there. It was definitely providing value to the company.

Leo Laporte Oh! That’s interesting. Okay.

Jim Louderback But obviously not enough value.

Marshall Kirkpatrick Yeah.

Jim Louderback They let everyone go.

Leo Laporte Well, when you start bleeding – is Yahoo! bleeding?

Marshall Kirkpatrick Well, they are not doing search anymore either, right.

Jim Louderback Well, you know what? To make another Monty Python reference, Yahoo! reminds me of the knight with his arms and his legs cut off saying, I’ll bite your head off, come back here.

Leo Laporte So, really I mean it’s hard to imagine Yahoo! not being around. They obviously made a huge mistake when they turned down a $31 billion, or whatever it was, bid, what was it? Was it 31?

Jim Louderback Some huge amount from Microsoft.

Leo Laporte It’s a huge amount from Microsoft. And they said, no, that’s not enough. Whoops. They got to be thinking we should have taken that.

Jim Louderback Well, and then look at them merging with AOL, which is not going to happen, right?

Leo Laporte That was an accident.

Jim Louderback That was an accident. But the rumors were there that they were dancing together. But it’s hard to dance with somebody with no arms and no legs.

Leo Laporte Well AOL is not exactly hopping around either.

Jim Louderback Yeah, at least they have a couple of limbs left.

Leo Laporte They have a plan. They have a plan.

Natali Morris No, but they are putting in a lot of money and I guess adding to content into various channels like this is the fashion channel and this is, you know, I really like Lindsay Campbell’s new show, The Daily or something like that, like I’ve been actually going back to AOL to read and watch some of the stuff because I think they are doing a good job at that. So it’s a new identity.

Jim Louderback Yeah, but – but how is that working out for them when you look at the revenue side? And the other in the middle of a turnaround, but they haven’t been able to move the needle with all the content whether it’s on seed or local or anything else, it still hasn’t caused them – because their revenue is still declining. That’s the problem.

Leo Laporte We are talking with Natali Del Morris. I’ll get it.

Natali Morris I do that all the time.

Leo Laporte I’ll get it one of these days Natali Morris, Marshall Kirkpatrick and Jim Louderback, you are watching TWiT coming up. Are your smartphone app spying on you? Apparently they are. But before we do that, I would like to mention our friends at Natali say this is on Squarespace.

Natali Morris It is.

Leo Laporte You like it?

Natali Morris I do. I do like Squarespace.

Leo Laporte You can tell the truth.

Natali Morris I have a few actually. I have a Mommy blog as well on Squarespace it called Mommy…

Leo Laporte What's that?

Natali Morris

Leo Laporte How neat.

Natali Morris Yeah.

Leo Laporte So why did you choose Squarespace besides the fact that they probably gave you a free site?

Natali Morris No they didn’t actually. And they noticed that I was using it and they were like, hey, we would have just paid for this but I didn’t want any kind of…

Leo Laporte No, I think it’s appropriate, yeah.

Natali Morris And because I blog with four other – three other girlfriends there, there is four of us who just became moms this year and all sort of chronicled our lives together on and I wanted it to be easy for them because I felt like some of the other blogging solutions out there were a little too – you know they are not tech reporters, they are PR, really smart girls but I just wanted something that was easy.

Leo Laporte What a great picture. That’s Alex’s picture when she was pregnant. That’s fantastic. I love that.

Natali Morris Isn’t that cute?

Leo Laporte Yeah, that’s really neat.

Natali Morris Yeah I claimed that that was me at first and he was like --

Leo Laporte Who is that guy?

Natali Morris Who are you taking pictures with?

Leo Laporte Why is he holding your stomach and where is his shirt. So here is the neat thing about – one of the things I really like about Squarespace is you – you can’t look at this site and say it’s a Squarespace blog, it’s a website and it’s unique and – the design is unique, and that’s the thing I like about so much about Squarespace. Squarespace; you start with it – if you can go right now, and you can take a look at a whole bunch of information about how it works and what the templates are and so forth. The thing about Squarespace is it’s hosting, yes, but it’s also software. And so the software is always up-to-date, security is always patched, some very big businesses use Squarespace, Quills is one of my favorite places. I love Quills. We are easterners so we know about Quills, Jim.

Jim Louderback My wife loves Quills.

Leo Laporte Yeah, Quills is fantastic. They use Squarespace and their site looks unique. They all look unique. You start with – it all starts with the same I think about 50 or 60 designer templates. But then the customization is infinite. You can do anything you want with AJAX, the drag and drop, if you know CSS, of course you can use it in JavaScript but you don’t have to. You don’t have to be a designer to create an incredibly professional looking unique site. If you look at the examples you’ll see how many great Squarespace sites there are out there.

Then of course it’s easy to post with that iPhone app, you can not only post but you can moderate comments, kill spam, that kind of thing, great stats so you know exactly who is visiting. They have got photo galleries, lot of photographers use Squarespace for their portfolios. Form building, data collection, intuitive editing and very simple connections to the social sites we all use. You can totally integrate it.

I want you to try it right now absolutely free. Just go to, click that great big green button that says “Try it for Free” you don’t need a credit card, you just give it a name, a password, email address, enter those letters. Alex Lindsay went to a – was at a restaurant. He love – he said, where is your website? They said, we don’t have a website. He said, well, you do now. He literally half-an-hour later made his Squarespace site for free and said, look, if you guys want to keep it, here is the password. I mean, that’s the kind of thing you can do with Squarespace. And I’m sure, knowing Alex, it was a fantastic site. I hope they – I hope they took a lump on it.

After two weeks if you decide you want to keep the site, pricing is very affordable and if you use the offer code TWIT, you’ll save 10% off all on these prices. So if you are somebody like Natali where you have other authors, they have multiple author sites. Do you know what this Audiences thing is Natali? Because I don’t really – you have – you have different looks depending on the audience?

Natali Morris Yeah, it’s kind of a weird – I haven’t – that actually is not – I haven’t found the easiest thing to figure out because you…

Leo Laporte You create a password protected area of your website so different members can have different parts of the site. I guess if you wanted a pay site this will be great.

Natali Morris Yeah, exactly.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Natali Morris And then different people have different...

Leo Laporte Editors.

Natali Morris …permissions. Yeah, different editors.

Leo Laporte It’s really neat. Starts at $12, but again, use the offer code TWIT and you’ll save 10%, not for the first month, the first year, but for the life of your site It’s really the easy way to create a great website.

So, not just the iPhones, not just the Android phones, but apparently smartphone apps in general now are really paying attention to what you are doing. The Wall Street Journal did an investigation and found out that apps like Paper Toss and textPlus are actually passing information about us to the advertiser. The Journal tested 101 apps from Apple and Android to see which app is reporting personal data to advertisers. Over half sent the iPhone’s unique identification number to companies without user consent, just under half sent data on the phone’s location, 5% of the apps reported age and gender information to the advertisers. Do you – is it something you agree to when you download these apps, when you sign the agreement or is this – is this something we should expect, is it par for the course? Marshall, is this is a bad thing or a good thing?

Have I lost your audio? I think I’ve lost your audio Marshall. Did you mute youself?

Marshall Kirkpatrick Yes, I did. Sorry about that.

Leo Laporte Go ahead.

Marshall Kirkpatrick So this Wall Street Journal series about online privacy has been driving me crazy for months.

Leo Laporte Some of it’s completely BS, right?

Marshall Kirkpatrick And the parts of it that aren’t are really couched in fear mongering…

Leo Laporte Okay.

Marshall Kirkpatrick …and anti-innovation language. The federal government has picked up the gauntlet a little bit here and it’s talking about things like a do not track…

Leo Laporte Right.

Marshall Kirkpatrick …requirement and privacy policy roundtable and what have you. And when the federal government talks about these issues, they almost without fail are also mentioning the incredible potential for innovation that user activity data provides. They never leave that out in all the documents I’ve read and most media coverage, especially this Wall Street Journal stuff, never talks about the upside. It’s all boogeyman, fear-based advertising…

Leo Laporte Well, and let’s not forget Rupert Murdoch owns the Wall Street Journal and has a little bit of an investment in the internet failing. I think you are going to lose that one, Rupert. On the other hand I do think that of all the articles I’ve read, this one seems to have a pretty good point. You – do we agree that Paper Toss should send my personal information to an advertiser? Is that – is that something that everybody understands is going to happen?

Marshall Kirkpatrick People don’t understand it for sure but – but the kind of backlash that could come as a result of that I’m real concerned about too. My friend and mentor Marjolein Hoekstra over in Amesterdam just sent me a link to an app called Firewall iP that you can use if you’ve got a jailbroken iPhone and it will show you all of those outgoing requests that you may not be aware of and allow you to approve or deny them one at a time.

Leo Laporte The Journal points out that most of these sites do not have a privacy policy and neither Apple nor Google requires privacy policy on the part of apps. So I guess is let the buyer be aware.

Jim Louderback Well, you know in a lot of these apps when they install and I’ve seen this on a couple of different types of phones, they do say this app is asking for this, this and this [indiscernible] (28:57).

Leo Laporte Right. Android definitely tells you that.

Jim Louderback Yeah. As does the RIM, BlackBerrys and I’ve been playing around with a Nokia device, and they seem to do the same thing. But you still don’t really know what you are giving up.

Leo Laporte Who reads that. And it’s not granular, I mean it’s not – it’s just saying this site – you know, this app uses your Internet connection. It doesn’t say it uses it to transmit everything you are doing back to the home/office.

Jim Louderback Well, I think they are – these apps are taking too much of an advantage of the personal information because your phone has the most personal information on you of anything. Right? It knows where you are, it knows what you do, it knows who you call, and giving that out without your explicit authorization I think is wrong and I think that we are going to see a backlash. We are seeing it already. Look at the don’t – do not follow stuff on the Internet that the FTC is doing.

Leo Laporte Angry Birds on the iPhone sends your unique identifier, which by the way cannot be modified, sends your unique identifier – maybe – okay, maybe that’s okay – and your location. Now why does Angry Birds – why does Chillingo need my location and what do they do with it? They say we don’t do anything with it. But then why do you…

Jim Louderback Why do you take it?

Leo Laporte Why do you take it?

Marshall Kirkpatrick Well on – so the less admirable side of the coin there would be to geo-target advertisements…

Leo Laporte Right.

Marshall Kirkpatrick I suppose. On the other side of the coin perhaps more favorably they could use that sort of information to team you up with other players of the game in your area.

Leo Laporte Now, but I – okay.

Marshall Kirkpatrick The sky is the limit and it’s up to some of these people who are getting this data to do something with it that’s interesting.

Leo Laporte But I got to point out that the Angry Birds on the iPhone that has no ads, it’s a paid application.

Jim Louderback Nokia too, I got it right here.

Leo Laporte Yes, and it doesn’t have team play, it doesn’t have any of that geographic stuff.

Jim Louderback It’s birds and pigs.

Leo Laporte That’s it. So I still don’t understand…

Jim Louderback Birds and pigs. There is no need to know where I am.

Leo Laporte Which phone is that?

Jim Louderback This is the N8.

Natali Morris Maybe they think you need caffeine and you are furiously playing Angry Birds.

Leo Laporte Let me look at that. Hey this is Starbucks. So this is the phone all over Europe when I was in Paris for Loebb, there the heavy, heavy promotion for the Nokia N8, this is their hot new smartphone. Symbian, right?

Jim Louderback Hold it in your hand, I want you to feel see how hot it is.

Leo Laporte It’s hot.

Jim Louderback That’s what I mean.

Leo Laporte I mean it’s really – it’s heated up.

Jim Louderback There is a little bit of an issue with battery because it’s been sitting in basically in my pocket for two hours, and it’s been really warming up and draining the battery itself.

Leo Laporte It’s a little bit – it’s an underwhelming form factor, it’s a little bit thick…

Jim Louderback It’s got a 12 mega pixel camera on…

Leo Laporte Oh that’s why and they have always –And Carl Zeiss glass. They have always done a good job on the cameras.

Jim Louderback The other thing about that is it is Gorilla Glass on the front and I really like that because I always scratch my phones.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jim Louderback This one Gorilla Glass you can barely – almost drive a nail into it, and not scratch it.

Leo Laporte It’s got a front – looks like it’s got a front facing camera and a flash on the front that’s kind of cookie. What do you think? Do you think it’s a good phone?

Jim Louderback Too early…

Leo Laporte Got to give up your…

Jim Louderback I’m only using it for a couple of days.

Leo Laporte I can’t give up my iPhone.

Jim Louderback Or give up my BlackBerry for it so…

Leo Laporte I have the Nexus S here which I – I like the playing Google experience, I think it’s just fantastic.

Jim Louderback It does not have Gorilla Glass though, which I was surprised by. It doesn’t have that no scratch glass.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jim Louderback I think that Nexus One actually had Gorilla Glass.

Leo Laporte Did it really? That’s interesting. And the iPhone does too, right, it has like a sapphire or some sort of – although my son immediately – both my son and daughter have iPhones that are completely shards.

Jim Louderback Corning makes this Gorilla Glass and it is really – I think it’s a real breakthrough for clear glass.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jim Louderback At CES, you should go by Corning and check out Gorilla Glass because they are going to be there, they are going to be showing off Gorilla Glass.

Leo Laporte Okay.

Jim Louderback And talk to them about what it does.

Leo Laporte We – Berg McLean who is in our studio department at Mobile – was it Mobile Expo? MobileFocus, they have Gorilla Glass with people were there and he stopped on it with his motorcycle boots and smashed it.

Jim Louderback He did, really?

Leo Laporte Yes.

Jim Louderback Well that’s unusual abuse case, nobody is going to do that.

Leo Laporte We’ll stop on their phone.

Natali Morris Wait, was he trying to prove that it couldn’t be broken and then he broke it?

Leo Laporte Yes, and he was really embarrassed, he thought I would like to be mad at him.

Jim Louderback Remember that…

Leo Laporte I was actually happy for him, I said good job, well done Berg.

Natali Morris It’s the Titanic of phones.

Leo Laporte Yes. Apple doesn’t do Gorilla Glass exactly but it does have a hardened glass. And the GALAXY S – I’m told the GALAXY S does have Gorilla Glass so maybe this does.

Jim Louderback Really? I looked up, I don’t think it does.

Leo Laporte It doesn’t? Okay. Corning – we will have to ask Corning.

Jim Louderback Yes.

Leo Laporte New Google Maps on here. If you looked at the new Maps 5, if you have an Android phone, not yet on iPhone but it…

Natali Morris That is so cool.

Leo Laporte Isn’t that kind of neat they used vector…

Natali Morris The offline function.

Jim Louderback Yes.

Natali Morris Yes, is what I am the most excited about.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Jim Louderback Because you don’t have to be connected, you can just download the map for where you are, which is another thing to try at CES because we all know that there is the – the bandwidth there is terrible.

Natali Morris You do have to be connected to get your initial direction but then if you lose connection then your maps will continue because that’s happened to me so many times where I’ll get lost and like where is the turn I don’t know and because you’ve lost your connection, great.

Leo Laporte So when you – so I guess I must have cached the maps and these are instead of bit maps which they used to be it’s now vector based, so when you zoom in it’s instant and you don’t – it just redraws it, which is really great, you don’t have to wait for it.

Natali Morris Nokia’s maps use the same technology, they are also vector based.

Leo Laporte Let’s be honest.

Jim Louderback Yeah the [indiscernible] (34:21) map on here I downloaded California and Vermont, it’s cool. I have those maps on here.

Leo Laporte It’s not a – it’s kind of a silly feature. Let me – I mean come on of course you could do that. And then this is nice you now can use the pinch to twist the map and if you use two fingers it will change the angle kind of a la Google Earth and if you are in an area where they have modeled the buildings obviously here in Petaluma we haven’t done sketch up to model the buildings but if you go to New York City the buildings are actually kind of almost looks like pop out of the phone as you tilt that way and that’s kind of fun.

Jim Louderback It’s fun, but okay how useful is that.

Leo Laporte The most useful thing is offline maps, right. That’s the thing that we should get excited about.

Natali Morris Yes, and the thing about vector maps is they don’t have to – every time you pinch or zoom it has to reload a new map if it’s not using that technology but now that map is cached and so you can move it around and you don’t have to wait for brand new connection to the server.

Leo Laporte Well yeah you saw snappy it was, I mean it’s pretty cool. Yes. This is Gingerbread which is 2.3 and big improvements in the performance I have to say on the Android phone. I think that’s something that Apple people often say – use as a negative on the Android phones is the kind of the slightest lag when you move stuff around and I think that’s been kind of handled.

Jim Louderback We have the S we have got a review up on AppJudgment at Revision3 on that.

Leo Laporte Do you like it?

Jim Louderback Yes. I have played with it a little bit, a couple of guys at the office waited in line at Best Buy on Friday to pick one up.

Leo Laporte Yes, that’s impressive.

Jim Louderback With six other people.

Leo Laporte That’s impressive. I like it. I have been very happy with it. There is some missing features you can’t add an SD card, it doesn’t have a light – a notification light apparently Samsung doesn’t like those. These aren’t physical buttons, they are kind of electronic buttons but I don’t mind that I don’t like the physical buttons, the new keyboard is much better on the Nexus S.

Jim Louderback Do you think it’s interesting that Google went from HTC as the maker of the Nexus One to Samsung as the Nexus S.

Leo Laporte Samsung, yes, I do think it’s interesting.

Jim Louderback I wonder what that means. Maybe nothing but I always like looking for conspiracies.

Leo Laporte Yes. I like – I have to say I like the GALAXY S line in general, and I love the AMOLED screens, don’t you love the AMOLED screens?

Jim Louderback Oh yeah.

Leo Laporte Oh I love it, they are beautiful.

Natali Morris Maybe the biggest one everyone to have a year have a turn it’s like prom queen.

Jim Louderback Yes, exactly.

Natali Morris The Samsung is the prom queen this year.

Jim Louderback LG is next.

Natali Morris Next year it will be Motorola, yes.

Leo Laporte You know it’s pretty clear that this isn’t a phone that Google wants to make money on or even sell they just have to have something to reference…

Jim Louderback You know what’s cool about that phone and I don’t know if you can show it but turn on it’s side it’s got this convexity to it or concavity to it that – it’s kind of slopey.

Leo Laporte It’s kind of weird I don’t know if you can really tell and it’s apparently just the glass I fix it toward – down and said no you know what the panel underneath the LCD is flat. But there is a slightest – why do you think they do that, is that for glare?

Jim Louderback I have no idea. I just think it’s cool.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Jim Louderback It’s like going up to 11. It’s like our glass curves.

Leo Laporte It’s curved.

Natali Morris No, it said something in the press release about that how it’s just so much more comfortable.

Leo Laporte Oh well yes because it now fits the contours of my cheek.

Natali Morris Right.

Leo Laporte It’s not curved enough for that.

Jim Louderback Unless of course you are squared jawed.

Leo Laporte Well that’s the thing I have pretty round cheeks, it really – they would have to make this into like a bowling ball. I must be – I don’t know that’s so much more comfortable.

Jim Louderback You know you really shouldn’t be holding that up your head anyway.

Leo Laporte Let’s see what else is new in the world of technology. Big lunar eclipse coming up on Monday.

Jim Louderback Somebody still my beating heart.

Leo Laporte Oh how exciting.

Jim Louderback How is lunar eclipse part of technology Leo? This is like the most natural event you can get.

Leo Laporte Anything that geeks would be interested in.

Jim Louderback Ah okay.

Leo Laporte We are going to webcast it?

Jim Louderback We are going to webcast the lunar eclipse.

Leo Laporte Look the moon, it’s disappearing.

Jim Louderback Leo Laporte will interview the man on the moon.

Leo Laporte Oh I know what the big story is. Did we talk about this last week? Mark Zuckerberg, Man of the Year.

Jim Louderback Is there some – that’s some old paper magazine it’s gone out of business, is that right? I can’t remember.

Leo Laporte Man of the year Mark Zuckerberg with the creepiest picture you have ever seen on the front page of TIME.

Natali Morris I know, it looks like we shouldn’t call him man, like boy of the year. Sorry.

Leo Laporte Poor Mark, man…

Jim Louderback Child genius of the year.

Leo Laporte I don’t know you just get this big time, there are pictures of him as a baby.

Natali Morris No, I…

Leo Laporte Yes. He is the man…

Natali Morris He is very young.

Leo Laporte He is very young, and he is the richest billionaire – the youngest billionaire, the richest youngest billionaire. I don’t know.

Jim Louderback Well – but the market for his shares certainly indicate that he is a billionaire but does he have a billion dollars in the bank or does he have shares in a non liquid stock?

Leo Laporte He is selling his – He is selling his – or actually I guess leasing the house that he has been living in, and it’s very modest. It’s nothing fancy, it’s not a mansion. Of course he is moving somewhere which is probably quite a mansion so I don’t know. Let me just show you just for those of you who are watching the video at home, obviously like find the cover.

Jim Louderback Would you find it a little weird to live in Mark Zuckerberg’s house given that people will probably track him down and there is probably going to be stalkers coming over and don’t know he’s moved. You are looking on the window and you are brushing your teeth it’s like that’s not Mark Zuckerberg.

Leo Laporte Don’t you think it’s kind of creepy that cover, it’s like he is…

Natali Morris Stop poking, he doesn’t live here anymore.

Jim Louderback Yes.

Leo Laporte It’s like he is starring at you?

Jim Louderback Stop poking.

Leo Laporte Don’t you think he is kind of starring and like don’t his eyes follow you as you move, look, move around. His eyes follow you.

Jim Louderback It’s kind of like the haunted mansion, seriously.

Leo Laporte And there are no windows.

Natali Morris Yes, why does he picture exist? He posed for it?

Jim Louderback Yes.

Natali Morris In some capacity?

Leo Laporte I think it’s HDR.

Marshall Kirkpatrick Oh no, laugh if you will but that young guy right there, any other year, if it weren’t for WikiLeaks I think that people wouldn’t object to Zuckerburg’s getting Person of the Year award; I mean he brought easy publishing and personalized subscription, syndication reading, you know the power of RSS in the form of the newsfeed to 500 people – 500 billion people – million people all around the world, he has totally changed the world.

Leo Laporte Okay. No, you, you know what, I actually agree with you, and in fact I argued this point on This Week in Google, he certainly is a strong candidate for the Person of the Year, and Facebook is an amazing story really, let’s face it.

Jim Louderback Well, absolutely technology Person of the Year, but it must have been a pretty low beat year if he is our overall worldwide person of the year.

Leo Laporte Half a billion users and you are right Marshall, he made it easy to publish feeds, they do more pictures, serve more pictures than Flickr and everyone else combined, I mean this is a significant- should Julian Assange be the Person of the Year?

Natali Morris Well, okay, it’s a significant win for introverts everywhere, the Clayton of camera is dotting for Kim Jong Ill and Anwar al-Aulaqi so I mean they are some more truly global people who make it possible not just to share my baby photos with my mother-in-law.

Leo Laporte I beg to differ. I think that it’s enough we – the politicians have had enough press and enough attention it’s kind of always a default as a politician gets this and I don’t think politicians make as much of a difference in day to day lives as somebody like Mark Zuckerberg.

Jim Louderback Okay, what about Steve Jobs?

Natali Morris Okay, but we are talking about…

Leo Laporte Think of all the people who got laid because of Facebook.

Natali Morris Well, I didn’t hear that, say it again?

Leo Laporte No, don’t say it again.

Jim Louderback Leo, we are talking Time Magazine, not Playboy magazine.

Leo Laporte I think Mark has done more to bring people together, old college flames, high school girl…

Natali Morris Yes, I’m not saying that is not valuable but I think we should also look at the way this award has sort of been deluded anyway like two years ago there was a big mirror and a picture and it said you like we were all person of the year so it’s almost something you know I barely care about anymore at all.

Jim Louderback Remember, Leo, remember when the personal computer was the Person of the Year.

Leo Laporte I remember when you were the Person of the Year.

Natali Morris You.

Leo Laporte You. All of us, you.

Jim Louderback That’s what, yes, with the mirror.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Jim Louderback Like Natali said, totally.

Marshall Kirkpatrick I think you are making too much light of it; call me an overly serious guy but really I mean, the printing press can be used to print silly things but that doesn’t mean that it is a silly tool.

Natali Morris Really, what does it do? I agree he is an important guy but what does it do, like, it makes people in supermarkets get excited and say yes, we really do appreciate this Facebook thing. Right.

Jim Louderback And that’s the whole point of a cover of a magazine is to sell the magazine.

Leo Laporte Well, it certainly will do.

Jim Louderback Right. So they pick a Person of the Year not because that’s the best most interesting or the person who’s done the most for the human race, it’s the person most likely to sell the most copies of the magazine at the supermarket.

Natali Morris Right. It’s not even crowd sourced. It just what Time thinks what their editors think. They really want to do something like this come up with the final list and throw it on their sorry to say it, Facebook page.

Leo Laporte Do you know who I think the person of the year should be? The Old Spice guy, man I think he is great. He is on a horse. That’s the person, all right. But truthfully…

Natali Morris He would sell magazine.

Leo Laporte He would – I’m going to say that, he would sell a lot more grocery store copies of Time Magazine if you put that guy.

Marshall Kirkpatrick Or Assange should be person of the year.

Leo Laporte You think so? I think probably if you are talking about somebody who is not merely…

Natali Morris That won’t sell magazines but I think you are right.

Leo Laporte Not merely done important things but in some ways really changed how we think of journalism, as J. Rosen said the first transnational, first post national journalistic entity, I think that you could make a case for Assange.

Jim Louderback Well, he’s also brought us to the point of should – of really trying to think about should everything and I mean everything be transparent?

Leo Laporte Well, yes, and this is a great conversation, let’s have that in a second, because I think transparency is a kind of an interesting subject. But before we do that I would like to talk a little bit about Gazelle, I know a lot of you are saddled with old gadgets you would like to get rid of, maybe an old iPhone or two, perhaps you’d like to get the new iPhone, Gazelle is a great place to get rid of your old gadgets, don’t sell it, gazelle it, is the place to go right now if you want to know more about Gazelle, you can buy and sell electronics, if you go to the website, you will be able to enter in your old gear, give me a, Jim give me a gadget, an old gadget you have lying around the house, that you don’t need anymore, you don’t want anymore…

Jim Louderback Well, my BlackBerry 9700.

Leo Laporte The perfect example, no, no, let’s say you are going to keep that N98, so you have…

Jim Louderback N8.

Leo Laporte N8 rather, so you have an old, it’s a curve right.

Jim Louderback Yes, just put a BlackBerry Curve sure.

Leo Laporte Let’s see the old Curve, and 8310, there is quite a few Curves right there, let me look at all the different curves, see which one, the 8000, the 5000, which one, it’s this one, right.

Jim Louderback Yes, it’s that one.

Leo Laporte Yes, yes.

Jim Louderback Yes.

Leo Laporte Yes, that’s the ticket. And so you can see, they have all the different models in here, you click sell it now and then it’s going to ask you a few questions, does it make a call, yes, for your water damage.

Jim Louderback No.

Leo Laporte No, really would you drop in the toilet, what happened?

Jim Louderback The ocean.

Leo Laporte The ocean.

Jim Louderback I dropped it in the ocean.

Leo Laporte Ok, let’s say it’s in good condition, have the AC adapter…

Jim Louderback I sure do.

Leo Laporte Yes, yes, all that stuff. By the way, this is fun, look at the graph, they show you the value as it’s been plummeting.

Jim Louderback Oops! I dropped it in the water.

Leo Laporte Let’s calculate how much you are going to get. $65.

Jim Louderback That’s pretty cool.

Leo Laporte That’s good. And so here is what happens, you say okay, I’ll accept that offer, you can by the way add more, get a box, you check out, they will – you print out a mailing label, they pay the postage, you send all that stuff back in a box, they send you a check. Or you can get a Amazon credit or a PayPal credit, I think they have a variety of different ways you can get paid, it’s just a great way to get rid of your gadgets. If it’s old and junk they can’t sell it, they’ll tell you ahead of time and then they will recycle it and they do it responsibly using EPA certified green recyclers, they guarantee no landfill, no international transportation, they break it down and they take care of it responsibly and appropriately.

Now, here is one more feature that I like about Gazelle, if you are a non-profit, instead of having a bake sale, have a gadget sale, turn your gadgets into cash for your cause, they’ll even give you a web page, a personalized gadget drive web page, you could send donors there, the donors send their gadgets to Gazelle, Gazelle sends your charity the check, great way to raise money for all sorts of causes, great recycling, sell your gadgets, Gazelle, I love it. Don’t sell it, Gazelle it, use the offer code Twit by the way at the end when you are checking out and you get a 5% bonus payment for your used gadgets.


Let’s talk about transparency, because I think you are right, I think that’s really what the WikiLeaks message is that in the day of the Internet, there is no room for secrets, even for governmental secrets, think that’s the case?

Jim Louderback I think it’s becoming that way

Natali Morris That is what I think.

Leo Laporte That’s the message.

Jim Louderback But is it right or not, I mean that’s more interesting is should there be things that are better off left unknown to everybody…

Leo Laporte About you or…

Jim Louderback Well, certainly about me but I mean really about he rest of the world.

Leo Laporte I could defend your right to have some private life, I think that that’s fine but do you think governments?

Jim Louderback It depends and I can argue both sides of this but I’ll….

Leo Laporte I can too actually.

Jim Louderback I’ll take the side of things should be private because many things happen in back rooms based of trust between leaders that they may not be able to say out loud. And if all of their thoughts are all out loud, that I think could slow things down or could cause problems. And I could argue the other side…

Leo Laporte I thin that’s a fundamental mistrust of the people and really I think…

Jim Louderback I’m not talking about the U.S. but other parts of the world.

Leo Laporte Oh, the U.S. is whose ox is being gored right now. What do you think Natali?

Marshall Kirkpatrick Is there a certain…

Leo Laporte Oh, go ahead Marshall.

Marshall Kirkpatrick I wonder if there is a certain point where an organization loses enough trust that their assurances that they are acting in secret, in good faith, don’t carry any water anymore. And I’m not sure that the WikiLeaks either is arguing completely against secrecy. I mean, they have gone through and redacted a bunch of names and details in partnerships with the media outlets that they are publishing alongside of; but I think about the revelation that the United States is looking for Blackmail material to use against people participating in climate negotiations who want stricter controls on climate change.

Leo Laporte Wow, that’s quite a revelation. I didn’t see that. Wow!

Marshall Kirkpatrick Yes, I mean it’s, and the list just keeps going on, but that’s just think about that one as sort of there is something tangible there…

Leo Laporte Right. We have the right to know that, don’t you think?

Marshall Kirkpatrick I think so.

Leo Laporte And I could see why our government would love to hide that.

Marshall Kirkpatrick Yeah, the State Department cover up of human sex trafficking by private military contractors in Afghanistan reported by the Houston Chronicle as a result of Wikileaks, a lot of people linked to that, to that source that came out, I think that deserves light of day.

Leo Laporte Wow.

Marshall Kirkpatrick And there are – I’d like to know some real tangible harms that have been done as a result of their disclosure. I think there’s tangible examples of things that have been disclosed that needed to be disclosed, but in most cases it feels like it’s a philosophical argument on the other side or in worst case scenario, a case where the government says, this is bad and people go along with it just because they are told that it’s a terrible thing to have secrets disclosed. But I would like to know some specific secrets, that should not have been disclosed and what the harm – beyond just harm to U.S. interests but harm to people’s lives has been as a result of that disclosure.

Natali Morris Right, I think it’s a lot of – just sort of dirty laundry where the things that Hillary Clinton is asking, her staff, information about that kind of thing, it’s embarrassing. And I am definitely all for making the government more of an open-source community where information is actually not private, but we can all discuss it. The problem is we don’t live in that society. So if only one person has their laundry aired and other people don’t. That’s why we are so uncomfortable with it, I think. And I do feel like we would feel a lot differently as a country if this were a Middle Eastern country who had their dirty laundry out.

Leo Laporte We’d be laughing.

Jim Louderback Well, the other part of it I think that’s interesting is WikiLeaks is now moving from government to business.

Natali Morris Right.

Jim Louderback And think about NDA statements that you’ve signed. I mean I run a business. I wouldn’t want everything that we are planning on doing to be completely transparent and open to everybody. And I’m just a small business where probably it doesn’t even matter that much.

Leo Laporte Well, and that’s a good point I mean. But I think that’s the difference between government and business. Government – I don’t have a problem with you having secrets. I have a little bit of a problem with the government having secrets. So that is – there is a difference.

Jim Louderback But there are secrets – I don’t know, I was playing Call of Duty: Black Ops last night.

Leo Laporte Oh, I’d keep that secret if I were you.

Jim Louderback That was not the secret I wanted to reveal.

Leo Laporte Oh, okay.


Jim Louderback We had a central character, this guy, the cold war, goes down to the Bay of Pigs and tries to – does all the stuff – tries to – at that time, during the cold war, were there secrets that we shouldn’t have told, I don’t know. I just think the stuff that we were doing then would we have been better off having everyone know it, maybe we wouldn’t have gone to the Vietnam War.

Leo Laporte Exactly. There’s a lot of reprehensible stuff that went on that probably wouldn’t have happened had we known.

Natali Morris Well, many wars are built on assumptions and propaganda. And I think this memo that Michael Moore posted on The Huffington Post about why he posted bail for Julian Assange makes a great point that a lot of this information wouldn’t have been so many – there wouldn’t have been so many smoke and mirrors and is that right or is there really weapons of mass destruction like we would have known, we would have had more information which we can all agree on I think is a good thing, at least that part.

Leo Laporte We certainly – government has lost our trust. In the post-Watergate era, I don’t think there is anybody who trusts government anymore. And so I think in that case – in revealing the secrets of the government is only a good thing, right? If you don’t trust them, you got to watch them and how can you watch them if we don’t know what’s going on.

Natali Morris I mean so many news broadcasts are built on this like, we are telling you the truth. We dug it all up and that’s just – they don’t have any more information than the rest of us had. They just make it our business – their business to dissect more and read more and pay more attention but if there really was more information out there then maybe the news networks would have something to work with.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jim Louderback Well, in fact maybe we don’t need news networks, right? I mean we’ve got this guy.

Leo Laporte Do we even have news networks anymore, I mean, really?

Jim Louderback Well, we do.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I mean they call it news networks. I don’t know if they take – they are not news networks in the [indiscernible] (54:17) sense of a news network. Are they?

Natali Morris No.

Jim Louderback Well, we don’t have networks in the [indiscernible] (54:20) sense anymore. Now we have a zillion different – anybody can be a broadcaster.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jim Louderback Right?

Leo Laporte I wonder though – and to take it to the next level, I wonder if this Internet media stuff, if we can’t replace, if we can’t still do news and investigative journalism – you and I both run Internet networks, we don’t have the resources to do the kind of thing that the old networks used to do.

Jim Louderback But I think there’s still --

Natali Morris Neither do the old networks, let me tell you.

Leo Laporte Yeah, somebody works for a network.

Jim Louderback But Huffington Post is now putting a lot of money into --

Leo Laporte 15 million I think in investigative --

Jim Louderback Right, in investigative journalism.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Jim Louderback So, does investigative journalism sell?

Leo Laporte I fear that that’s a token amount of money that they are doing specifically to respond to this complaint.

Jim Louderback You think they’re attracting attention to themselves.

Leo Laporte Oh, really.

Jim Louderback The Huffington Post?

Leo Laporte Well, I was talking to somebody who’s friend, is a – I don’t want to name – names would give you enough information to make this person track-downable, former investigative reporter for a major network who has taken a job doing investigative reporting for Rupert Murdoch’s Daily, the $0.99 week iPad publication, he’s very excited about it. He actually turned down a real job with a major network to do this. And maybe there is – with the pay wall, there’s a way to keep journalism alive or is it hopeless? I certainly don’t think we get a lot of journalism now.

Jim Louderback So I think what you have to ask yourselves to answer that question is would you pay for this iPad app, this $0.99 a week or whatever it is.

Leo Laporte Right. Would you?

Jim Louderback Would you? I wouldn’t.

Leo Laporte Oh, you’re not going to – yeah, because the Internet gives me everything. The web gives me --

Jim Louderback I got –

Natali Morris Well, it depends on the content that you want. I pay a lot of money for The Economist.

Leo Laporte That’s true. That’s well worth it.

Natali Morris Yeah, because it’s worth it to me. So if you are the kind of person who really appreciate News Corp. reporting then you would pay for it.

Jim Louderback Are you saying something about me, Natali? You want to come right out and say it?


Natali Morris No, but stop using my log-in to The Economist, Jim?

Leo Laporte I get everything I need --

Jim Louderback Why don’t you fax me some of their articles.

Leo Laporte So I saw an interesting story relating to this, YouTube supposedly in talks to buy Next New Networks. Did you see that, New York Times reporting that?

Jim Louderback No, we don’t talk about that at all in the office.

Leo Laporte Revision3 is in the same kind of business as Next New Networks although they are more of an aggregator than you are.

Jim Louderback Yeah, they produce a bunch of their own shows.

Leo Laporte They do.

Jim Louderback They do, they do although I think and I don’t really know anything about them but they are a competitive company. But I don’t think that YouTube is going to get into the content creation game.

Leo Laporte That would be the speculation if they bought something like Next New Networks.

Jim Louderback If they wanted to get into the content creation game, I could see them with all of their money going out and buying Endemol or Fremantle, the guys who do --

Leo Laporte Buy the actual content.

Jim Louderback Yeah, buy the – well, buy someone who’s got a bigger audience footprint. What if you could take Survivor and put Survivor on YouTube.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jim Louderback You’d have to buy the guy, Mark Burnett, into productions.

Leo Laporte Well, I would be willing to bet that YouTube is spending a lot of time – people from YouTube are spending a lot of time in Hollywood talking to Mark Burnett, and all of these guys saying let’s do something that’s web-based. Don’t you think?

Jim Louderback I think they are only just beginning to do that because they hired Robert Kyncl from Netflix.

Leo Laporte That’s right.

Jim Louderback With all the deals with Netflix.

Leo Laporte That’s right.

Jim Louderback To get – to line up all the content from all the big networks. I don’t think they were doing much at all before because YouTube for a long time, right after Google bought them, they turned them from a media company into an algorithm company, into a technology company. And I believe that they are slowly turning back to thinking they might be more of a media company, but I still don’t think that they are going to get into the business of creating their own content.

Leo Laporte Last month Eric Schmidt was asked, if he’d consider acquiring web-video companies, content creators; he says you never say never. We tried not to cross that line. But to actually own the content is an important decision. He’s acknowledging that would be a big step for Google. We’re always debating these things, says Schmidt. The good news right now is there is enough of these little digital studios that can raise capital. He’s talking about you.

Jim Louderback He’s talking about you too, Leo.

Leo Laporte And they see --

Jim Louderback Would you sell? Would you sell to Google?

Leo Laporte Yeah, Google is not coming knocking at my door, I can tell you that right now. He said though that they see YouTube as a viable distribution point.

Jim Louderback Eric Schmidt.

Leo Laporte Hello, Eric. How are you? And that’s true. Certainly you and I both do video on YouTube. But I’m sure, Natali, CBS puts everything that you do on YouTube, right?

Natali Morris Indeed.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I mean why wouldn’t you?

Jim Louderback Well, Viacom doesn’t because they have that suit going on.

Leo Laporte It’s so stupid. That’s just stupid. That’s just stupid. So I think that YouTube doesn’t need to buy this stuff. They already have the channel, the most powerful channel in the world. I don’t even understand why they would go to Next New Networks. Maybe they’d make a deal with Next New Networks, a distribution deal. But why buy them?

Natali Morris And why buy just one vertical of video? Why start there? Why not just make their own stuff? Why not start with news? Why not start with – I don’t know, it doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

Leo Laporte They already send – you know, the number one Google video is the Bed Intruder song which is a Next New Networks’ video. That’s number one in 2010, The Gregory Brothers.

Jim Louderback But there are so many videos that get so much traffic. That may be the number one video but as a percent of overall traffic on YouTube it’s got to be like a fly in the ointment.

Natali Morris Yeah.

Leo Laporte 60 million views, I’ll take it.

Jim Louderback That’s nothing.

Leo Laporte That’s network numbers, dude.

Jim Louderback That’s nothing for YouTube.

Leo Laporte [Indiscernible] (59:55) numbers. The number two video was – anybody, any guesses?

Natali Morris Yeah, it --

Leo Laporte Kesha, you know?

Natali Morris Actually, I didn’t think it was Kesha. I thought it was Justin Bieber.

Leo Laporte No, it was Kesha. Glitter Puke.

Natali Morris Oh.

Jim Louderback But the other interesting thing about views – views to me are less important than quality of audios.

Leo Laporte It actually wasn’t Kesha, it was – I apologize...

Jim Louderback It was Parody of Kesha.

Leo Laporte It’s parody Kesha. There is no dollar sign, I should have known. It was a parody of Kesha from another Next New Networks show called The Key of Awesome. So they are – maybe that’s why this rumour started. Google said, hey, who is in-charge here, who is running this show? We’d like more of that.

Natali Morris Hey, the – there are so many, like the little kid who did the Lady Gaga video, like that kid was very talented and now he’s got a record label.

Leo Laporte Right.

Natali Morris Like, Google is not sitting there saying, who is talented and we’re going to pick them up and make them a star, obviously would have picked up that little kid and leave Britney alone --

Leo Laporte I’d rather be in YouTube’s position and just be the – these place everybody goes to. On the other hand, they got to monetize a lot of bandwidth; I can only imagine the amount of bandwidth…

Jim Louderback Well – yeah, but look they have so much volume and if you’re going to go out and share your pic content, you’re right, Natali, why not pick up Annoying Orange or Ray William Johnson or some of those folks.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jim Louderback There are also – I mean Ray William Johnson delivers more aggregate views probably, I mean he is definitely up there. He is funny. As is Annoying Orange.

Leo Laporte Right.

Jim Louderback Annoying Orange is hilarious. And those are the people who are driving real sustainable views and have built sustainable channels. So if you’re going to start buying some of them, I think you’re right, why not just buy a bunch of them.

Natali Morris Yeah, I think this was Adam Curry’s idea back when I used to work for him is that he would find everything that was cool on the Internet and curated for you which I think was a good idea....

Leo Laporte That’s how Yahoo! started. And then Internet just got too big for them.

Natali Morris Yeah, exactly. You just can’t do that and people like the agency of finding that themselves. So I don’t think that they want to serve it to you. They love the idea that you find it all yourself.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Marshall Kirkpatrick I want to see YouTube to be a media organization sort of hiring some political scientists and long term foreign policy journalists that Digg through the 250,000 WikiLeaks cables like The New York Times and the Guardian has.

Leo Laporte Maybe that’s...

Marshall Kirkpatrick That’s what media for.

Leo Laporte ...what you do is you support important journalistic endeavours. The reason the networks gotten that business, it was always a loss leader for them but it was prestigious and it gave them some gravitas to make up for Uncle Miltie. And it was loss leader but it was a good thing. They knew that there was their civic duty.

Jim Louderback I don’t think YouTube needs to make up for kids riding skateboards.

Leo Laporte Yes it does. Does Google have a civic duty?

Marshall Kirkpatrick We don’t have the entertainment section of the newspaper to pay for the front page anymore...

Leo Laporte Yeah, that’s the problem.

Marshall Kirkpatrick we need Annoying Orange to...

Leo Laporte Right.

Marshall Kirkpatrick ...carry disproportionate ways and subsidize the serious investigative journalism on the web.

Jim Louderback Annoying Orange subsidizes Annoying Assange.

Leo Laporte We are talking about the week’s tech news with Jim Louderback, he’s a CEO of Revision3. So Google calling you?

Jim Louderback Google calling us, yeah.

Leo Laporte Any knock on your door?

Jim Louderback We talk to Google all the time, but we haven’t talk...

Leo Laporte Do you?

Jim Louderback Of course, we do, we’re big – we’re big YouTube.

Leo Laporte I don’t talk to them. What do you talk?

Jim Louderback We talked about how do I get more views on my YouTube channel?

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Jim Louderback How do I make my channel works better? What do I do with annotations?

Leo Laporte Right.

Jim Louderback How do I do this? How do I do that? It’s a very – I mean it’s very tactical.

Leo Laporte I guess I should be more tactical. I don’t – I should be doing that – I don’t do that.

Jim Louderback Just talk to Colleen. Come ‘on you got friends there now.

Leo Laporte All I know is that every time I play a video from a copyrighted source, they pull my video off of YouTube, that’s all I know.

Jim Louderback That’s the algorithm coming out.

Leo Laporte I know. Let us talk a little bit about and that is a great sponsor I know for us for the last about five – four or five years. I am a big Audible fan. I just was looking at my Audible catalogue over 400 books over the 10 years. I joined Audible almost exactly 10 years ago and I love it. I have the two-book-a-month account and that’s the one I want to set you up with, via called the Platinum plan. That’s for heavy-duty readers. You go to, sign up for the Platinum plan, your first two books are free, you can cancel it anytime but the books are yours to keep for life. So if you have a couple of books you are interesting in reading, but like me you find – it a little hard to find time to read, this is going to be a lifesaver for you. Whether it’s Tom Clancy or Charles Dickens, James Patterson or Terry Pratchett, they’ve got it all. A great collection of over 80,000 I think at the last count of books. In all sorts of categories, look, Baba Booey’s got a book.

Jim Louderback My wife bought it.

Leo Laporte Did she?

Jim Louderback Yes.

Natali Morris She did?

Jim Louderback She loves Howard Stern.

Leo Laporte Really?

Jim Louderback He loves everything in Howard.

Leo Laporte Baba Booey actually I think narrates it, so that’s the nice thing about Audible you can hear it in his own voice.

Natali Morris He’s a tech head. He’s got his own sort of Internet tech show he calls himself the Techno Beaver.

Jim Louderback Yeah.

Natali Morris He reviews gadgets.

Jim Louderback My wife said, oh yeah, you should talk to him and bring him on to Revision3.

Leo Laporte Okay.

Jim Louderback I was like, yeah, okay.

Leo Laporte Actually Jeff Jarvis is a big fan too, so...

Natali Morris He has my same agent Gary Dell'Abate...

Jim Louderback Can you put him in touch with me Natali?

Leo Laporte Here is a great one.

Natali Morris Yeah, I actually can. You want him on Rev3?

Leo Laporte You want him on Revision3?

Natali Morris Mover over Veronica.

Leo Laporte Here comes Baba Booey.

Jim Louderback Here comes Baba Booey.

Leo Laporte Here is the recommendation.

Natali Morris I am sure the audience would love that.

Leo Laporte This is one of my favorite sites....

Natali Morris Coming with Veronica in the Beaver suit.

Leo Laporte Oh! I like that. So....

Jim Louderback Natali, would you come and be in the beaver suit.

Leo Laporte You’re saying when he does Tech Beaver he wears a beaver suit?

Natali Morris Yeah. He does.

Leo Laporte Oh jeez louise. It’s weird. I want to plug a book here. Peter F. Hamilton, if you ever read any of his stuff, if you like sci-fi you will love his stuff, Pandora’s Star and its sequel Judas Unchained are now out on Audible and you can get them free. I am talking 37 hours and 22 minutes for Pandora’s Star and I think Judas Unchained – yeah, it’s 40 hours, even longer and 50 – so we are talking right now free, 70 plus hours of reading. If you got along, this is the best solution. Also check it out at, the best of 2010, the editor’s picks and customer favorites. These are the best audio books of the year. The hard part with Audible just limiting yourself to two books a month, but that’s what I’m going to make you do. Go to, at least they are free, pick your first two books, listen and I think you will find that Audible is just a great way to read in our busy lives. Whenever you are in the car, at the gym, doing housework, on our iPod, your iPhone, your Android phone, on your Kindle, pretty much any device, you can listen to great performances and that’s what’s really key. These aren’t some dry reader, these are performances. I want to hear, there is a new Terry Pratchett book.

Jim Louderback Terry Pratchett is the best, by the way.

Leo Laporte He is amazing. Yeah. I Shall Wear Midnight, let’s just – this one is – Stephen Briggs reads it. I am just going to play a little bit of this, just to give you a sense of the performance...

[Audio Book Playback]

Leo Laporte I have to say, Stephen Briggs reads a lot of these Terry Pratchett books, you can – almost all of them run Audible and boy, he’s – I now can figure out, that’s the voice of Terry Pratchett to me.

Jim Louderback I’ve read all the books, but I’ve never listened to, it’s an entirely different experience.

Leo Laporte And it’s funny when you’re driving along and chuckling.

Jim Louderback People look over and go, don’t look now, but he is laughing.

Leo Laporte Don’t look now but he’s laughing., get your two free books. Please don’t waste any time, get them today. I am sure you’ll find the time to listen, 400 plus books. I am listening to Keith Richards’ autobiography right now.

Jim Louderback I got to try the science fiction author. I’ve never...

Leo Laporte You’ve never read any...?

Jim Louderback I’ve never read any of this.

Leo Laporte Oh! You would like the [indiscernible] (1:08:11).

Jim Louderback I love hard fiction.

Leo Laporte And you like hard sci-fi.

Jim Louderback Yeah.

Leo Laporte You like scientifics.

Jim Louderback Yeah.

Leo Laporte Yeah, you would love – start with Fallen Dragon...

Jim Louderback Okay.

Leo Laporte That’s one volume because other stuff is like three volume of – Fallen Dragon is awesome.

Jim Louderback Got it.

Leo Laporte Awesome. By the way Macman is saying when sheep – when humans aren’t around sheep play pool. So I didn’t know that.

Jim Louderback Who gave them the pool table?

Leo Laporte I don’t know. I don’t know. Let’s see what other stories are in the news today, checking the Google Docs, yes, a Japanese women so incensed, like Google street view showing her private items on the washing line, she is suing Google. She says, I was overwhelmed with the anxiety. Well remember this is in Japan where the sale of underwear is very prolific. You buy – oh never mind.

Jim Louderback Prolific, you mean the underwear purchases per capita are far higher than other....

Leo Laporte Far higher than any other nation.

Jim Louderback ...developed world.

Leo Laporte Absolutely. She says, I was overwhelmed with anxiety, that I might be the target of a sex crime, it caused me to lose my job, I had to move, I had to move.

Natali Morris Couldn’t we make the argument that the people around her could already see those underwear and may have still wanted to commit sex crimes against her.

Leo Laporte That’s true. It’s a good point.

Jim Louderback And if they are facing the street anybody who walked by could see them or drove by could see them, right?

Natali Morris Yeah.

Leo Laporte She should move to Germany then she just blur it out.

Jim Louderback Or move some...

Marshall Kirkpatrick For me, to the story was that she was suing and demanding a grand total of $7,000.

Leo Laporte What about the naked guy in the trunk, why isn’t he suing?

Natali Morris Maybe she just should sue for some new underwear and call it even.

Leo Laporte Okay. So I’m told now by somebody who’s actually been to Japan that they do not in fact have vending machines for panties. I thought they did. It’s an urban legend.

Natali Morris How does that person know that, you know, unilaterally? There may be some places where they do.

Leo Laporte They are somewhere there is. Yeah. Somewhere there is.

Jim Louderback [Indiscernible] (70:25) for undergarments.

Leo Laporte Apple says we’re going to open our Mac App Store January 6th. Prices will range from free to $15 for some of the Apple iWork apps. Is this a complete change in the way we buy computing software?

Jim Louderback What's the difference between that and

Natali Morris Seen that site, thank you.

Jim Louderback That’s right.

Leo Laporte I think there is a difference from the point of view of the software publisher because basically you have to get Apple’s approval to get in the store but then you get publicized by Apple, Apple takes 30%, but they handle the hold transaction, they do all the downloading, all the bandwidth is theirs. So it is a smoother transaction. And I think if you are a software developer, your hope could be fear is that pretty soon that’s how everybody is going to buy their software so you have to be in just as you have to be it in the iPhone.

Jim Louderback No way, this is like – you know, Digital River is this company that does this online where they – you know, you can buy Symantec’s, Norton products, you can buy all this stuff. I can see where it makes sense in a closed environment with a new operating system. But this is like saying, I’m Intel and I’m going to build the app store for netbooks, which they tried to do by the way.

Leo Laporte Right. They did, yeah.

Jim Louderback And – I don’t anybody who uses it. It is basically a download. It’s two cows. It’s

Leo Laporte So it’s not a big deal?

Jim Louderback I don’t think it is.

Leo Laporte And this just in, here is video of a panty vending machine in Japan. Okay. It looks kind of a travelogue.

Jim Louderback I don’t know what it’s doing out in the woods or out in the fields.

Leo Laporte I don’t know. Maybe the vending machine is – I’ll zoom in, 24 hour panty-vending machine, that’s the translation. Alright, I’m sorry I brought it up. I apologize to everyone. Please accept. Wait a minute, now there really is a…

Jim Louderback You know you often need panties after working the fields.

Leo Laporte Look at that, 3,000 yen. That’s exactly how much that woman was asking for.

Natali Morris You could always just carry a diaper bag.

Leo Laporte How many of you – show of hands – really --

Jim Louderback Who is a new mommy? Who is a new mommy?

Leo Laporte Yeah, new mommy. I’m a new mommy. So, anybody seen TRON yet? TRON: Legacy, anybody? Show of hands. No, no. Now you got better things to do Natali. Marshall we’re counting on Mr. neckbeard, have you seen?

Marshall Kirkpatrick No, personal grooming takes all my free time. And so have been not able to go and watch it.

Leo Laporte Alright. So the reviews – the reviews are mixed. Some people say it’s a not a great movie, but the video effects – special effects are great. Apparently you should see it on IMAX 3D, it’s what everybody agrees. I don’t know. Okay, I just --

Marshall Kirkpatrick Sounds like our review is – it is unmoving and insufficiently compelling to go and watch.

Jim Louderback You know, one of the guys who we work with who is – does a lot of comic book stuff went to the midnight show Thursday, came back, said it was the most amazing thing ever and that everyone would love it. But this is the same guy, he said the same thing about Scott Pilgrim.

Leo Laporte Oh dear. Well I don’t trust him it all then.

Jim Louderback For the comic books fans, absolutely you should go see it. But is this a movie that’s going to be at the same level of, say, WALL-E? I doubt it.

Natali Morris You know, I got those gunner TRON-inspired 3D glasses and I think it’s so funny that, the movie studio, the glass manufacturers are now selling you 3D glasses that you’d just to keep with you, your won personal ones so you don’t have to use the loaners. I don’t know, what do you guys think of that?

Leo Laporte Yeah, because who wants – you know, I don’t know if I want to watch with somebody else’s. Do they disinfect those in between showings?

Natali Morris I think so. That’s why they are wrapped in plastic, right?

Leo Laporte Oh, they are wrapped in plastic at your theater?

Jim Louderback Yeah, yeah, they are wrapped up in plastic.

Natali Morris Because they’ve been --

Leo Laporte Oh, yeah, sure, sanitized for your protection. I believe that. They give him the plastic wrapping machine but not the dishwashing sanitizing machine

Natali Morris Perhaps.

Jim Louderback I always bring a vat of acid to dip mine in before I put them on.

Leo Laporte Researchers from Harvard have collaborated with Google to analyze the massive library of digitized books and the Google books collection. Why? Because they are trying to figure out the half-life of a celebrity among other things. Starting with books that came out in the year 1500, going all the way up to modern books, about 1.4 billions words a year, actually by 2000 it’s 8 billion a words a year, they performed a data analysis looking for what they called Ngram, short phrases of up to five words. The procedure allows them to detect trends. In the U.S., the frequency of the word slavery for instance peaked during the Civil War, that’s what you’d expect, but then had a resurgence during the Civil Rights Movement in the 60s, that’s also kind of what you’d expect. They call it their Culturome, like a gnome, it’s a Culturome. And for instance you could see here the – the popularity of various foods, steak sausage, ice-cream, hamburger, pizza, pasta and sushi, ice picking in 1950, going through a downtrend in 1960, but it’s back on top in the year 2000 baby. Pizza really taking off from 1950 on.

Jim Louderback So you know, Marshall this is what they are doing instead of funding investigative journalism.

Marshall Kirkpatrick Yeah, no, this is really cool actually. I spent a lot of time with this. Carrots versus celery is a fascinating one. Celery, I thought it was pulling away into the lead and carrot came around about garlic --

Lo Laporte Carrot comes right on back, baby.

Jim Louderback This is like one of those races at the ballgame between the innings. Carrot’s catching up.

Leo Laporte You can go to So give us some sample searches. Here is one for punk rock and rock and roll.

Marshall Kirkpatrick Cocaine, heroin, marijuana, methamphetamine, is an interesting one?

Leo Laporte Cocaine, marijuana --

Marshall Kirkpatrick Took a big leap in the 80s.

Leo Laporte …heroin and meth – let’s see.

Marshall Kirkpatrick I did one. [ph] Elvis Presley (76:32), Timothy Leary.

Leo Laporte Look at that, look at that cocaine just taking off in the 90s but plummeting now.

Natali Morris But it’s in books, it’s not on the web, right?

Leo Laporte Right, this is books. Well, because the web started in 1980

Natali Morris So it’s like not like – have you ever been to Google Fight? does this for – I think more relevant way.

Leo Laporte The zeitgeist. Yeah, but that’s only in the last 15 years that the web has been around, this is – this goes back to 1800.

Marshall Kirkpatrick Racism, classism, sexism, and homophobias [indiscernible] (77:00).

Leo Laporte Okay, I’m not going to type that in, that’s too many letters.

Marshall Kirkpatrick Maybe – maybe it’s a downer, I don’t know.

Leo Laporte Too many letters.

Marshall Kirkpatrick But I mean hours of fun – hours of fun.

Natali Morris Yeah, you’re coming up with all the ones that are depressing me.

Leo Laporte Well, give us one. Okay, here – unicorns?

Jim Louderback And mermaids. I did unicorns, mermaids and angels, and angels…

Natali Morris Do – yeah, hobbits and

Leo Laporte The Unicorn’s more – oh, unicorns – angels have been coming down.

Marshall Kirkpatrick Don’t put in angels, they skew the result.

Leo Laporte Yeah, they do skew the result, don’t they? Angels are so powerful that they ruin it. But look, here is unicorns in blue, mermaids in red – mermaids is really just taking off in the last…

Jim Louderback How about baseball, football and hockey? I did that one.

Leo Laporte Yeah and?

Jim Louderback See, look and football is still ahead, although baseball catching up.

Leo Laporte Marshall, you are right, this is hours of fun.

Marshall Kirkpatrick Yeah. Radio, television, newspapers, magazines, stuff like that, radio took a big jump around World War II, and internet is still just a tiny blip at the very end of the graph when you compare it to other mediums.

Leo Laporte Interesting, is it as big – no, that’s the yellow one, it’s the little one down here at the bottom. It’s very interesting.

Marshall Kirkpatrick Oh, yeah, [indiscernible] (78:04) internet is where it’s at but carrots and celery are still way bigger.

Jim Louderback I did cats, dogs and ferrets…

Leo Laporte Yeah, and?

Jim Louderback And dogs are clearly the leader. Ferrets never really got off the ground. They had a little bump back in 1810.

Leo Laporte Here is celery versus broccoli. Wow, you really can – you really – it is hours of fun, Marshal, thanks to you.

Marshall Kirkpatrick Just a search for groovy is a fun one.

Leo Laporte Like how – oh, yeah, you could just do one word, you don’t have to do…

Marshall Kirkpatrick Just one word, yeah.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Groovy has really gone through peaks and valleys. It’s on the…

Natali Morris I did hobbits and wizards and…

Leo Laporte Yeah?

Natali Morris Yeah. Wizards went out through the test of time.

Jim Louderback Leo, I think we need to discuss a spin-off show on this thing this week in Ngram.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Well, we’ve been looking as Ngram’s twin, we’ve been looking for a game show. And I think this could be the basis of a game show like you predict what the trends are or something like that.

Jim Louderback I did news, sports and weather.

Leo Laporte Yeah. And?

Jim Louderback And news is still on top.

Leo Laporte But what’s coming on --

Jim Louderback Sports is climbing up and weather is going down.

Leo Laporte Sports is coming on. Nobody cares about the weather.

Jim Louderback Books on the weather are not as interesting now that we actually have modern weather forecasting.

Leo Laporte You do have a – you do have a point Natali that it’s just books, so – I don’t know, maybe if you did newspapers, that would be a little bit more top – better for topical subjects, that kind of thing.

Natali Morris Yeah. Have you ever done a Google Fight,

Leo Laporte Yeah, I love that.

Natali Morris That will search the internet. That’s fun one too.

Leo Laporte I used to do it until I lost big time to Justin Bieber.

Natali Morris To who?

Leo Laporte No, there is a lot of people I lose to. Let’s do – let’s do you and me. What do you say, kid?

Natali Morris Well, it depends if you use my new name, then I’m not going to have that much --

Leo Laporte No I won’t, I won’t. Is this it? is this the site you recommend? Yeah.

Natali Morris Google Fight?

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Natali Morris Yeah.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Okay. So Natali – I’ll do Del Conte.

Natali Morris You are still going to win.

Leo Laporte I will not do Dvorak and Laporte.

Jim Louderback Leo Laporte has beaten Dvorak over the years.

Leo Laporte Oh good, alright. Let’s – over the years he’s coming on strong. Fight, here they are, they are fighting it out, it’s her left, it’s her right, it’s her right to the body. The winner is Natali Del Conte.

Natali Morris Oh, I win, look at that.

Leo Laporte Jesus. Cranky. All right let’s put somebody that I can beat in there, John C. Dvorak and they’re fighting – and this is such an old site and I can’t believe we’re actually doing this, but what the hell. What the hell.

Natali Morris It’s fun.

Leo Laporte All right and bye-bye John, bye-bye.

Natali Morris You win.

Leo Laporte Okay, let’s do iPhone versus Android. Now we’re making a little more topical aren’t we?

Marshall Kirkpatrick But Android means a lot more than just the…

Leo Laporte So what would you suggest?

Natali Morris Let’s do Julian Assange and Mark Zuckerberg.

Leo Laporte Okay, there you go. This is what TIME Magazine should have done...

Jim Louderback There you go.

Leo Laporte Zuckerberg/Assange.

Marshall Kirkpatrick I don’t think they care about numbers, I think that was proven by…

Jim Louderback We used to use this to do – to do our magazine covers at PC Mag.

Leo Laporte Wow. Assange big winner over Mark Zuckerberg.

Jim Louderback Actually we didn’t do that but we should have.

Leo Laporte You should have. Well, there you go.

Jim Louderback Windows versus…

Leo Laporte Natali Del Conte, at CBS, she is loaded man.

Natali Morris Yes.

Leo Laporte What is the website for that?

Natali Morris

Leo Laporte And what do you talk about on

Natali Morris It just do daily tech news wrap up, it’s like daily little tiny mini-TWiT, so it’s about 3 minutes a day of what’s new and what’s going on.

Leo Laporte So you do that five days a week.

Natali Morris I do.

Leo Laporte 15 minutes worth of news and it takes me 3 hours to do all of that.

Natali Morris Well…

Leo Laporte You’re so much more efficient.

Natali Morris …we keep it – we keep it tight.

Leo Laporte So much more efficient than I am. And Miles is thriving?

Natali Morris He’s doing well, yeah; he slept the whole TWiT, the whole clip.

Leo Laporte Oh, what a sweet boy, I see the Christmas tree, that giant present is that for him? Or is that for you?

Natali Morris It is actually, that’s a – it’s an exersaucer but don’t tell him.

Leo Laporte How old is he?

Natali Morris He’s 4.5 months.

Leo Laporte I think that his secret is safe.

Natali Morris Yeah.

Leo Laporte Does he still believe in Santa?

Natali Morris Oh, see that’s a big argument in my household is because I don’t want to lie to him and…

Leo Laporte Oh, you’re not one of those – are you? You don’t want to lie to him, what do you mean? You don’t…

Natali Morris I’m like – we can’t lie to our child, and he’s like – it’s an important part of tradition so…

Leo Laporte It’s not a lie.

Natali Morris I’m the Scrooge, but yeah…

Leo Laporte It’s not a lie. It’s like saying the Giants are better than the Phillies, it’s just a fact…

Natali Morris Well that’s true – that’s true.

Marshall Kirkpatrick The WikiLeaks of Christmas.

Leo Laporte There you go. She is off this transparency. She is off her transparency.

Natali Morris Don’t let my kid on Wikipedia, he’ll know – he’ll know he has been lied to.

Leo Laporte You know, what, my wife says, she says, well, you get to choose whether you believe in Santa or not, but if you believe in him, you get presents.

Natali Morris Last year on Loaded, I said something about like – you have Google then NORAD’s Santa Tracker.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I love that. Yeah.

Natali Morris I said, I covered it on Loaded, and I was like that is if you believe in Santa, I wish of course we all know, I said something like that, so many people were like I watch that with my kids…

Leo Laporte What’s wrong with you? What’s wrong with you?

Natali Morris [Indiscernible] (1:23:09).

Leo Laporte Santa is real and we can tell because – look at, with the federal government spend millions of dollars tracking Santa if he weren’t real.

Jim Louderback How do you know they’re spending millions of dollars, by the way?

Leo Laporte Billions, probably.

Jim Louderback Did you read that on WikiLeaks?

Leo Laporte What? Yes.

Jim Louderback The Santa Tracker?

Leo Laporte Santa Tracker is real, they said it on WikiLeaks. Jim Louderback, CEO of Revision3, what’s your newest show? Give me a plug.

Jim Louderback Newest show that – let’s see – we just launched DEATH BATLLE! which is the – gosh, it’s great --

Leo Laporte It was only a matter of time.

Jim Louderback It’s about – we’re doing with the guys of ScrewAttack and it is a battle between two video game characters, the first one being Samus from Metroid and – wait I got to remember the other one.

Leo Laporte That sounds pretty cool.

Jim Louderback It is kind of fun. We’ve got a…

Leo Laporte It doesn’t sound like it has a long life, though. I mean, do they battle every time?

Jim Louderback It’s just fun.

Leo Laporte I mean, how many episodes can you do, is it…

Jim Louderback How many – you can do…

Leo Laporte Is it different people each time?

Jim Louderback It’s different people each time.

Leo Laporte Oh, I was going to say if it’s always the same two people that wouldn’t be very good.

Jim Louderback Right, exactly.

Leo Laporte I get it.

Jim Louderback So it’s two different – oh, it’s a Samus versus Boba Fett, [ph] you always (1:23:24) like to see those guys kind of smack each other down.

Leo Laporte Yeah, who’d win? Who would win at DEATH BATTLE!?

Jim Louderback Well you have to watch the show…

Leo Laporte Here you go, DEATH BATTLE!

Jim Louderback …to find out.

Leo Laporte

Jim Louderback Yeah. And I will say one thing for you Natali, it’s – there a lot of big events coming up in your child’s life. First time they walk, first time they say mama. My son’s 11, just had a major event this – actually yesterday…

Leo Laporte What – what happened to Sam?

Jim Louderback He posted his first YouTube video.

Natali Morris Wow.

Leo Laporte And what it is about?

Natali Morris You must be so proud.

Jim Louderback I actually was really proud, it was great. It’s about a particular glitch on Halo Reach.

Leo Laporte Wow.

Natali Morris How cute is that.

Leo Laporte He really is a geek.

Jim Louderback Yeah. So lots of big moments coming up in your child’s life, one of them will be when you – they post on YouTube and given – probably without your permission, but when they do it, it will happen.

Natali Morris Well, Miles is on YouTube but all of his videos are unlisted.

Jim Louderback Right.

Leo Laporte He’s rolling over, which he does expertly now.

Leo Laporte If David after Dennis, if that guy had figured out how to do it unlisted, he’d be had a lot of money [indiscernible] (1:25:26) public.

Jim Louderback You know what they’re going to do it anyway. My feeling is they’re going to do it anyway; they might as well do it with you.

Leo Laporte I was thinking about that today, because my kids are not – Abby’s back from college and Henry is off at a [indiscernible] (1:25:40) thing, he’s 16 and I realize that the best – I wish I – I’m going to give you this advice Natali and I wish I’d known this when I was at your stage in life, just act like everyday is the last time you’re going to see him.

Jim Louderback Because eventually it’s true.

Natali Morris I know. I loved your comment when I tweeted someone is too cool to wear the BABYBJÖRN, you were back on Google Buzz, tell him to wear it because I would still wear my kids if I could.

Leo Laporte I would, and it’s doesn’t last, you cannot wear that thing – it’s not going to last long. It’s over. I still have – it’s on my credit card, I was wearing a BABYBJÖRN when I posed for the Bank of America and some of them, they’ve been using the same picture now for 16 years, when some of – you can just see the top of Henry’s head.

Jim Louderback I remember when you have that baby.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I know, they’re all grown now. So enjoy it, Natali as if you don’t know how long it’s going to last. On the other hand, it will be over before too long. Thank goodness.

Jim Louderback Well the thing is they’ll all start coming back to live at home after they graduate from college, so.

Leo Laporte Yeah, maybe, maybe. Marshall Kirkpatrick someday you will may – and have children.

Natali Morris We assume.

Marshall Kirkpatrick It’s possible. I don’t know how my wife feels about that.

Leo Laporte I’m just teasing you.

Marshall Kirkpatrick I’ll ask.

Leo Laporte It’s really great to talk to you. Thank you Marshall for joining us, we really appreciate it. Marshall is at any plugs you like to put out.

Marshall Kirkpatrick Oh, it’s a 24-hour nerdathon over ReadWriteWeb and we invite you to comment and contribute your nerdly habits, plus don’t forget speaking of WikiLeaks, go check out, Glenn Greenwald's coverage on Salon of Bradley Manning, the young guy that actually leaked the leaks.

Leo Laporte The private [indiscernible] (1:27:27), yeah.

Marshall Kirkpatrick ...really, not what you would expect.

Leo Laporte Oh, interesting.

Marshall Kirkpatrick Really good coverage, very explicitly dissident stuff on his part, he wasn’t a vandal when he released that.

Leo Laporte He knew what he was doing in other words. He was political.

Marshall Kirkpatrick Yup.

Leo Laporte Very interesting.

Marshall Kirkpatrick [Indiscernible] (1:27:47) for six months now in solitary.

Leo Laporte Wow.

Marshall Kirkpatrick No conviction.

Leo Laporte But is there a trial going on, what’s the status?

Marshall Kirkpatrick Oh, I think he’s waiting trial, still.

Leo Laporte Okay. Okay. Very interesting.

Marshall Kirkpatrick Yeah, it really is.

Leo Laporte Marshall….

Marshall Kirkpatrick And Greenwald’s doing great. Thanks very much for having me on Leo, I really appreciate it.

Leo Laporte So, great. We’ll have you back very soon, very soon. Thank you all for being here. A couple of reminders, first of all, this is the last TWiT of 2010. We’re going to do a ‘Best of’ next week and all of you voted for your best clips from the past year, some very good stuff in the ‘Best of’. Also Christmas Eve, we’ll release our holiday special, featuring Jonathan – John Hodgman, Jonathan Coulton and Sam and Dave – no I’m sorry Paul and Storm we couldn’t get Sam and Dave. So we got Paul and Storm, that’s coming on Christmas Eve. And Tom Merritt and I hosted and there were a several bottles of Jäger consumed.

Jim Louderback Wow.

Leo Laporte During the making of that, so that was a lot of fun. Wow.

Jim Louderback Jägermeister.

Leo Laporte Jäger.

Jim Louderback That’s a blast from the past.

Leo Laporte Yeah, Well, Storm was drinking it and we – and so we ran out and got some of our own…

Jim Louderback To do a Jäger [ph] louge (1:28:56)?

Leo Laporte Yeah. Our coverage of CES starts January 5, we’re taking the whole team out there, Tom Merritt, Sarah Lane and Brian Brushwood as well as myself will be out there covering CES, wall-to-wall so if you can’t get to the Consumer Electronics Show, our coverage starts January 5, we have a big booth there and all set up, we’ve got live views to stream and I think The Daily Giz Wiz will be there, one of our hosts will be out there as a matter of fact. So that should be a lot of fun starting January 5 at, it’s, yes, that time again. It’s hard to believe the Consumer Electronics Show is back. Are you going to get to skip it this year?

Jim Louderback Oh, no, I’m going.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Jim Louderback [Ph] I’m not at once [indiscernible] (1:29:31).

Leo Laporte Come by.

Jim Louderback I will.

Leo Laporte We’ll be doing the TWiT on the Saturday afternoon. Please come on.

Jim Louderback Love to.

Leo Laporte Thank you everybody for joining us. We’ll see you next time, Another TWiT – and we’ll see you next year, another TWiT is in the can.

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