TWiT 286/Transcript

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This transcript is provided by our friends at Pods in Print

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This is TWiT, This WEEK in TECH, Episode 286 recorded January 30, 2011: The Internet Kill Switch.

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It’s time for TWiT, This WEEK in TECH, the show that covers the week’s tech news. Joining us in studio today Mr. John C. Dvorak, good to see you, look at all the light. I’m glad you came because it’s not going to be many more shows out of the…

John C. Dvorak Give a white balance was on my face with the way…

Leo Laporte You can’t white balance your face, we’ll turn that camera down a little, you do look a little bright, John is the guy at the, I don’t want to talk…

John C. Dvorak

Leo Laporte, he writes for all these other people and I can’t plug Cranky Geeks any more?

John C. Dvorak Yeah.

Leo Laporte So No Agenda?

John C. Dvorak,, I’m sorry.

Leo Laporte In the morning.

John C. Dvorak And the – where are my glasses, did I bring my glasses…?

Leo Laporte John, you are getting on. MG Siegler, where are my glasses?

John C. Dvorak Where are my glasses and my cup,

Leo Laporte Look John, schoop! MG Siegler is also here from, hey, MG.

MG Siegler Hey, how are you guys doing?

Leo Laporte John, I have your glasses?

John C. Dvorak Oh, thank you Leo, been working together too long.

Leo Laporte And also with us Larry Magid from CBS and Larry's World.

Larry Magid Hey, Leo.

Leo Laporte Hello, Larry good to talk to you.

Larry Magid Good to talk to you. Thanks.

Leo Laporte Of course, the big story, and we’ll start with the big story this week unlike most weeks. The big story this week is for the first time in living memory and since the Internet is fairly new I think this probably covers the whole gamut. The Internet was dis – a country disconnected itself from the global net, Egypt on Thursday basically turn-off the Internet by re-routing its routers, changing the border gateway protocol so that no traffic could come or go into Egypt. This is in the wake of widespread protests on the streets of Cairo, Suez, and Alexandria. On the line with us, to talk a little bit about it, a Syrian who is helping cover the story for a citizens website called, Anas Qtiesh, Anas, thank you for joining us..

Anas Qtiesh My pleasure, Leo,

Leo Laporte So Anas is in Boston by the way, not in Cairo, but let’s talk specifically about and there has been a lot coverage we actually asked Xeni Jardin to come on the show she couldn’t but she suggested you because Boing Boing has been covering this heavily. Is this the first time a country has disconnected itself from the Internet?

Anas Qtiesh Actually this is the second time. I believe Burma did it a while back, monk’s protest I don’t remember the exact date.

Leo Laporte How long did Burma stay offline?

Anas Qtiesh I’m kind of crazy on the details of Burma but I like to think first Egypt disconnected itself entirely from the Internet, there were people who said that actually Burma was the first country but I don’t know the exact detail about Burma unfortunately.

Leo Laporte It’s pretty dramatic if you look at the graph from Arbor Networks of Internet traffic to and from Egypt, this is January 27 you’re going along in the morning at a terabyte, two terabytes by 6:00 am, by 2:00 pm nearly three terabytes of traffic into and out of Egypt, at 5:20 pm, it’s like a cliff, it drops to nothing.

John C. Dvorak Can I comment on this on chart?

Leo Laporte Yes.

John C. Dvorak Everybody brings this chart up. I’ve seen it on CNN, FOX News and every place else and it’s a chard that everyone says, oh, it drops off the cliff, yes, because they turned off the Internet, why is this a shock to everybody?

Leo Laporte It’s dramatic to see the sudden drop of Internet traffic?

John C. Dvorak It’s like my faucet, if you turn off the water, there is no water.

Anas Qtiesh Visualizing it.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I think it…

Anas Qtiesh Until it makes it more – more – just easier to wrap your head around it.

Leo Laporte And by the way it’s gigabytes, not terabytes I’ve got the scale wrong again, so it goes from 1 to 3 gigabits and then drops off to zero, but gig – that’s a lot of Internet traffic. First, let’s start Anas by asking how was the Internet being used by protestors?

Anas Qtiesh Well, Egypt has a very active Internet community, activists and bloggers, so were like feeding the protest, they were life streaming the protests video from their phones via different services, photos were being produced, black poster, everything was just output of on every social media platform there is, Facebook groups, so it was and the reason [ph] police started/stopped – (6:16) tried to stop it on the 25, the first day of protest they blocked Twitter, on the 26 they blocked Faecbook but people were getting proxies at their convention software, so even that did not work, so by the 28 they just took entire country off the grid, and even they disabled texting from cell phones, just to go one extra step.

Larry Magid Yes, can I make a comment Leo?

Anas Qtiesh And even BlackBerry messenger services.

Leo Laporte Sure, Larry Magid, go ahead.

Larry Magid Yes, well it’s true that they essentially cut off the Internet but sort of like cracks in a sidewalk where a little bit of grass grows through, we have never seen a, we still haven’t seen a 100% block out; people were getting through, they were dialing into modems, using analog modems to dial into other countries, they’ve been using satellite phones using ham radio connections to the Internet. So even though they tried they never a 100% stopped traffic and if you talk to the folks at Facebook or other services they will say there was some though not much traffic coming from a Egypt the entire time.

Anas Qtiesh Absolutely, that’s correct and actually there have been reports that actually one ISP left in Egypt that still has working lines, it’s called Noor, I believe, and it serves around 8% or less of the entire user base in Egypt. So there are some users who are still having their net connection, there are people who are still delivering the news who are uploading video, but as you said it just died, in fraction of the average user – daily user base.

Leo Laoprte Anas, were, was the Internet, was Twitter, were text messaging being used to organize protest as well?

Anas Qtiesh What I have seen social networking well is a big part of it, like before the protest there was a group on Facebook calling for the protest on the 25, and it got around 90,000 participants. So Facebook was a huge part of it. Twitter comes in hand because it’s just an instant way of exchanging news, where the police are, and what’s going on? Where are the locations of dangers, where’s looting going on, et cetera. So I think Facebook was a better platform to organize but in terms of sharing news instantly and to a international crowd or just a large crowd Twitter was the champion, I would say.

Leo Laporte What, this is one thing I haven’t heard a lot talked about, who are these protesters and what exactly do they want?

Anas Qtiesh Basically, the protesters represent the entire Egyptian population. They come from different political, religious backgrounds and their sole demand currently is Fro Mubarak to step down as President, to step down and for the whole regime to be taken down and replaced with a democratic government, they…

Leo Laporte So, it is not a fundamentalist revolution?

Anas Qtiesh No, no no, not at all.

Leo Laporte Okay. It is a pro-democracy revolution.

Anas Qtiesh Absolutely.

John C. Dvorak Yet.

Leo Laporte Yet, well that’s a question, I mean the Muslim brotherhood has not been heard from, is that right?

John C. Dvorak No, they have been heard from.

Leo Laporte They have?

John C. Dvorak They joined.

Anas Qtiesh They have but just judging by the dialogue of the people participating, like I just saw when one person start to cheer the chants towards something religious other people usually kept out that this is political protest and those are demand, don’t divert from the core demand, so.

Larry Magid Until they lost their press credentials early this morning, I have been watching Al Jazeera English.

Leo Laporte Oh, they are not – they are no longer broadcasting? Because that was really the only good source.

Anas Qtiesh Well, they are broadcasting.

Larry Magid Yeah, they are kind of underground. They have actually been – their license has been taken way. They were kicked off. They are not supposed to be broadcasting. But they are. And that’s another point as well. They are doing it by phone. I don’t think they have as much live coverage in the streets. But I have been watching that. And I have been very impressed with a lot of the folks that they have interviewed, young women that are extremely articulate talking about this movement. I am not saying there is an armed fundamentalist that may be part of it but I am not seeing them represented certainly in the coverage from Al Jazeera.

Leo Laporte And we should give a plug to your publication too, Anas, which is of course Global Voices,, which is kind of a citizen’s journalistic enterprise, blogs and citizen media from around the world and there is quite a bit of Egyptian coverage there as well.

Anas Qtiesh Yes, Egypt is exploding and it’s like – we’re receiving huge traffic over the Egypt coverage.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Anas Qtiesh And, just to quickly correct the URL there.

Leo Laporte I am sorry, yeah, Thank you

Anas Qtiesh And let me add that we provide the content translated into around 15 languages. So that also gives us an international exposure.

Leo Laporte And actually it’s a good thing that we can see some translations from the Arabic of what’s been said in Egypt as well I think. That’s --

Anas Qtiesh Absolutely.

Leo Laporte Yeah, very valuable to the actual discussion there. I wonder – I was in Cairo two years ago and I learned that the population explosion going on in Egypt, I think I remember it was something like a million new people in Cairo every quarter.

John Dvorak What were you doing there then?

Leo Laporte I was not helping the population explosion.

John Dvorak Oh, I’m sorry. I misunderstood.

Leo Laporte I was visiting the pyramids. But I wonder I mean how much of this is just pure population pressure and economic unrest as well. I mean I know of course, Mubarak has been in power for 30 years and has promised democratic elections and not delivered. But you have to think that at some point just the pure population pressure alone must be a real problem.

Anas Qtiesh Absolutely, the economic factor is a big part of what’s going on currently in Egypt. When you have an authoritarian regime like Mubarak, definitely nepotism and corruption is in play and that just really cuts into the livelihood of the average citizen. I think maybe 40% of Egypt’s population is below poverty line, if I remember correctly, but I’ll have to double check that number.

Leo Laporte Also I was very impressed by – a country like ours when you might argue this where the rule of law is what really applies, it’s so different in a country like Egypt where it’s who you know. It’s what baksheesh you can pay. It’s, as you said, nepotism. And really, that’s demoralizing in an uninteresting way. If there is at least a sense that there is a rule of law and there is some sense of fairness, that’s one thing. But if there is no sense of fairness, it’s extremely difficult. And I really felt that when I was there. Anas --

Leo Laporte Go ahead.

Anas Qtiesh No, no, go ahead.

Leo Laporte What do you think is going to happen? We saw the Green Revolt in Iran. Basically, we saw it on the Internet. We saw it on Twitter. But nothing really came of it. Will something happen here?

Anas Qtiesh I think so. The regime is currently falling. They are trying just to basically cause chaos and looting in Egypt just so people would eventually give up and go home. But I don’t see that happening. The difference between Egypt and Iran is that in Egypt for the past few days, the police have disappeared for a couple of days and now they are starting to come back. But police lost control and now the army is [ph] running the show to seek, they are (14:05) stationed in Cairo and other major cities and they are making sure that looting and crime does not spread. So I think the average citizen in Egypt highly respect the army and they trust them much more than police forces that used to be – that are known to be like arm of the regime.

Larry Magid I have a question for Anas, if you don’t mind.

Leo Laporte Sure

Larry Magid What do you think of the stories we are hearing that the police are actually out there looting themselves and some rumor is that the police may have been the ones to open the doors at the prison? There are apparently thousands of prisoners that escaped.

Anas Qtiesh I think that’s reasonable and very likely because they want to spread that chaos. They want to spread that fear. They want citizens to want to end up – end these protests so peace could be reinstated. So basically, it’s an old tactic and now it’s being used in Egypt and I bet it’s been used countless times before. I think a few thugs who were looting and attacking people, they were caught and they found police IDs with them.

Leo Laporte Very interesting.

Anas Qtiesh So, yeah, it’s an unfortunate situation.

Leo Laporte Anas Qtiesh, thank you for joining us and giving us your perspective on it, from global

Anas Qtiesh My pleasure, thank you. Thank you for having me.

Leo Laporte Excellent source for citizen journalism. Thank you, Anas

I think there is some – this is important from a technical point of view because of the cutting off of the Internet and of course, it’s a big political story. But I think from a technical point of view, it’s interesting, especially since Joe Lieberman of Connecticut and Susan Collins from I think from Florida proposed this --

John Dvorak Collins is from New England I believe.

Leo Laporte Yeah, proposed this Internet Kill Switch.

John Dvorak Yeah, S.3480.

Leo Laporte No, it was last Congress, but they say, they are going to bring it back in this Congress. Is it?

John Dvorak It’s still floating around.

Leo Laporte Yeah. And it really – she is from Maine, that’s right. And it really does – this is a very dramatic example of why such legislation might be a really bad idea.

John Dvorak Well, it’s a bad idea from the get go but it’s funny to watch the chat room go on and on about ah, it’s not possible. The fact of the matter is with this government and the kind of rules they’ve got in play when it comes to Homeland Security --

Leo Laporte It’s a lot easier if you’re totalitarian.

John Dvorak Well, yeah, but at the same time, let’s put it this way, they put out the word – and by the way, there is a lot of black boxes on a lot of these major ISPs nowadays. Especially like AT&T has got one over in San Francisco at that CIA headquarters, that crazy building on Second Street. Anyway, say, you are a CEO of one of the big companies and you have like a – somebody calls you from Homeland Security and says, shut down your --

Leo Laporte What are you going to do?

John Dvorak What are you going to do? No, and then end up in Gitmo, I mean they throw you in jail.

Leo Laporte But this Internet Kill Switch would I presume effectively put a kill switch in each of these places and you wouldn’t have to ask. You just say. You are the President. It would be the President without a court order or Congress --

John Dvorak I am sure that there would be a – at some point there would be a box on the network and they just push the --

Leo Laporte Push the button.

John Dvorak And they would go to these boxes and would essentially just shut down the machine.

Leo Laporte Pretty hard pressed to think of a compelling security reason why you would want to do that.

John Dvorak Revolution.

MG Siegler Well, they are talking about that. It’s interesting that they bring it up right now. Of course, like what horrible timing. Why would they bring this up at such a bad – it’s like the worst possible time.

Leo Laporte Oh, yeah, you and Mubarak together at last, yeah

MG Siegler Yeah, but I mean, they are talking about how – the details of this, that they use it for, things like if there was some kind of terrorist incident that they needed to shut down – like people were attacking the thing that keeps the Hoover Dam up and running and stuff, they would need to shut down the network to --

Leo Laporte Well, yeah, you definitely don’t want Leo Laporte on Comcast if somebody is attacking the Hoover Dam because, boy, that could be trouble.

MG Siegler Right.

John Dvorak Well, there is – I agree with that theory by the way. There could be some – like some massive worm coming in --

Leo Laporte Like a bug, a Stuxnet kind of a --

John Dvorak Something ruining the country and they had to reboot everything.

Leo Laporte Well, oh, I think Internet Reboot Switch is a great idea.

Larry Magid This is the oldest excuse in the world that there is going to be some terrorist attack. So we have to shut down this, shut down that, break into people’s homes to steal information. This has been going on since the beginning of time. And as much as I am concerned about terrorism, I would rather put our energy into shoring up the Hoover Dam so it’s extremely difficult to make it happen.

Leo Laporte Yeah, there you go.

Larry Magid Than shutting the entire net and --

John Dvorak Better to be safe than sorry, Larry. Better to be safe than sorry.

Larry Magid Gee, they are trying to disrupt the American business. Let’s just shut down the Internet. Who’s going to win that battle?

Leo Laporte Yeah.

MG Siegler The Ars Technica article on this was pretty good though, you know, all the technical details of how potentially they actually did this in Egypt, going into all the nuts and bolts of it. But they bring up the point at the end that how much more difficult it would be actually to do this in the United States simply because it’s such a bigger country space wise.

Leo Laporte We’re not as centralized.

MG Siegler Right, right, everything in like European countries and in Egypt too is one through the capital city for the Internet, it sounds like, whereas in the United States it’s all the different wires coming in from overseas that they have to bunch different hubs, they would have to basically do this all too at once and it would take a whole lot more effort.

Leo Laporte I remember when I was in Egypt, I believe that they said that there is basically one undersea cable going from the Mediterranean to Alexandria that connects the entire country. So it isn’t so difficult. And it’s nowhere near the complexity it would be in the U.S.

Larry Magid The interesting thing is when the Internet was first created, the reason they did this distributed processing was to avoid – we were worried about the Soviets, right, cutting out our communication. The whole concept of the Internet is to avoid the ability for one country to basically cut it. Yet obviously, it could be done within that country. We saw that this week.

John Dvorak That architecture is long gone.

Leo Laporte It’s a lot more centralized than it used to be. There are only a few backbones. There is few interconnects, I don’t know. I mean, this a great article you write MG, a really good article on the Law & Disorder column of Ars Technica. Speaking about how they do this, I don’t think it’s quite as easy here. However, does it mean people aren’t going to debate, the need for kill switch. It just seems like a terrible idea. Larry, you said that people are finding ways to get online. You actually have an article on Larry’s World as well about this.

Larry Magid Yeah sure, I mean, first of all I don’t even know if I own a dial-up modem, I’ll have to go look in my closet, there’s probably one somewhere.

Leo Laporte I know John has one but I haven’t…

John C. Dvorak I have a boxed one. The Dennis Hayes autographed.

Leo Laporte Yeah, Hayes autographed modem, okay.

Larry Magid I mean they dust it off if I can find it. Because, that’s certainly one way they dialed into overseas ISPs.

Leo Laporte Right.

John C. Dvorak It’s one way, Larry with due – I – to be honest about it, I wonder if I can hook the thing up and actually remember how to use it.

Larry Magid It’s hard to [multiple speakers] (20:57)

Anas Qtiesh Well, part of it is you can use – you’re able to use the – a cell phone too, to be able to do it right?

Larry Magid Right. If the cell phone networks worked, you could yeah and they do of course now. And where I’m seeing tweets as we speak from people on the ground in Egypt that are out there again tweeting from their cell phones --

Leo Laporte This is by the way why Edward R. Murrow would never have succeeded in journalism today, because I can’t see him saying, I’m seeing tweets as we speak coming in from all over the world.

John C. Dvorak That’s what they’re doing on these networks, there’s CNN and all the rest of them just show tweets. Hey I could go to the computer look at tweets on my own time.

Larry Magid CBS this morning they had a big – tweet deck and they showed all the different feeds coming in, it was very impressive of course. But look, people are tweeting up from the ground this one blogger – let me see if I can get his name, Wael Abbas, he’s waelabbas and he is blogging from the ground sending pictures and he was dark for a while but he’s back up. So there are people doing it and even during the time when it was supposedly banned completely people were doing it, so as I said, you somehow get through also ham radio connections.

John C. Dvorak Yes, ham radio is going to be the saving grace of the whole thing.

Leo Laporte GPRS baby.

Larry Magid Yeah. Point to point, no central server.

Leo Laporte I just think it’s really interesting that information has become like water. It just will flow, it will find the cracks and it will come out.

John C. Dvorak The thing that has to be done by the way and there’s a bunch of hams that apparently listen to this podcast --

Leo Laporte Oh yeah, absolutely.

John C. Dvorak Is that there are basically throttled internet connectivity through the Ham frequencies. And I think that needs to change.

Larry Magid You mean they should be – have faster bandwidth?

Leo Laporte it’s very slow right now.

John C. Dvorak It’s ridiculous.

Leo Laporte But it’s better than – I mean look we’re spoiled but nobody’s – if there is a revolution we won’t be trying to watch Netflix, that’s not really the issue. It’s probably sufficient to sent email.

Larry Magid And hams have been great in every disaster and it’s clear because there – you can’t create a barrier to a ham operator – well, you could try to jam their frequencies, but it’s point to point, it’s going through a server.

Leo Laporte Kids, learn Morse code, that’s all I can say.

Larry Magid We don’t need that anymore for a license.

Leo Laporte I know, I know.

John C. Dvorak No you don’t but it’s still handy

Leo Laporte Thank you for correcting me because – it’s still hammy?

John C. Dvorak Still handy.

Leo Laporte Thank you for correcting me because frankly I was going to get the email, so you never want to mess with a ham. So anything else to talk about with this Egyptian story or should we move on? I think it’s a fascinating story --

John C. Dvorak I think it’s over covered. I think we should let it shake out a week and when you get back from Antarctica we can think about it more.

Leo Laporte You love this that I’m going to Antarctica, don’t you?

Larry Magid Well I think it’s fascinating that this is on our beat. Those of us who are tech journalists, this is clearly --

Leo Laporte Finally.

Larry Magid Yeah, I mea finally we get to say something --

Leo Laporte Finally, something to talk about other than Zuckerberg’s sweatshirt.

Larry Magid Although I have to say the president state of the union was also on our beat. He actually gave a talk on –

Leo Laporte On YouTube.

Larry Magid …technology issues.

Leo Laporte Yeah, and he YouTubed his – I thought that was really interesting for the second year in a row.

Larry Magid He did a shout out to Facebook and Google and he talked a lot about his fantasy that we are going to get 98% high speed wireless internet access within five years, good luck.

Leo Laporte Fantasy.

Larry Magid But he certainly painted a very optimistic picture of technology and ironically with just right on the verge of what’s happening in Egypt.

Leo Laporte Have you by the way John are you going to Madrid for the fourth time…

John C. Dvorak I intend to, yes.

Leo Laporte Is that arranged?

John C. Dvorak I haven’t finished the arrangements.

Leo Laporte Okay, we’re going to send a producer with you and a camera guy if you don’t mind.

John C. Dvorak A camera guy?

Leo Laporte Well you need a camera guy if you got a camera or we could just send the camera.

John C. Dvorak Oh, send a producer and the camera guy.

Leo Laporte Yeah, we’re going to send a producer and a camera guy?

John C. Dvorak Hi! Ladies and gentlemen, I’m your John C. Dvorak back to you Leo.

Leo Laporte Exactly! Yeah.

John C. Dvorak You want to throw back?

Leo Laporte Yeah, I want you to go, this is Madrid. I’m seeing tweets from all, over talking about the new Ford Focus.

John C. Dvorak Well you think of the new Ford, it’s a Ford, it’s in Madrid and you know what, you don’t get to see too many of those in Spain.

Leo Laporte Oh no, that’s not true.

John C. Dvorak Oh that’s right, this is the international car.

Leo Laporte Ford is huge all over the world, yeah.

John C. Dvorak Is this your Segway?

Leo Laporte No, I don’t have a Ford today actually.

John C. Dvorak Oh I’m sorry I thought it was a Segway.

Leo Laporte You know what I have today – you know what is coming up

John C. Dvorak I was going to play it up if it was your Segway.

Leo Laporte You know what is coming up? You know what’s coming up? Valentine’s Day.

John C. Dvorak Oh really! I wonder – that’s funny thing about Valentine’s day, I’m always trying to figure out what to get?

Leo Laporte I’ve got somewhere for you to go John. Somewhere that will help you and all the people listening today, buy their sweethearts something very nice for Valentine’s day. I’m talking about This portion of TWiT is brought to you by Come in here Eileen, look at this, Eileen has brought with us with her some lovely jewelry from How many guys listening or watching right now, have ever messed up valentines day? Come on John.

John C. Dvorak No I never – I never

Leo Laporte Larry you have, MG you better not.

Larry Magid Oh Yeah.

MG Siegler: No, not me.

Leo Laporte You better not.

MG Siegler: Hopefully my wife isn’t watching [indiscernible] (26:03)

Leo Laporte Yeah exactly. The funny thing is, it’s easier to get it right. Just give her a little ice. Jewelry is always welcome.

John C. Dvorak Oh I thought you mean ice.

Leo Laporte No – no actual jewelry; it’s always welcome. And at you can get fine jewelry at very affordable prices. Diamond earrings, sapphire; you want to see the sapphire bracelet, this is gorgeous. That’s Larry…

Larry Magid [ph] You guys are like (26:30) looking at me.

MG Siegler Gorgeous, gorgeous.

Leo Laporte That’s no sapphire bracelet, that’s Larry Magid. Here we go, here is this sapphire bracelet, look at this, look at how.

MG Siegler Leo, I want you to get me a MacBook Air for Valentine’s.

John C. Dvorak [ph] You’re going to (26:35) hand it to me, you’re going to just…

Leo Laporte No, because I got a camera. So you look at that.

John C. Dvorak You got a camera on it.

Leo Laporte Look at that, isn’t that beautiful?

John C. Dvorak That’s very pretty, let’s see.

Leo Laporte Oh I’m sorry that’s rubies.

John C. Dvorak It looks like a really pretty red sapphires.

Leo Laporte Yep. They can FedEx this to you, actually we had to sign some sort of thing.

John C. Dvorak How much is that one worth?

Leo Laporte I don’t know, it doesn’t say but I can tell you it’s going to be more affordable at, it’s the trusted jewelry source online since 1999, you can avoid – hey John, take it out of your pocket. Where did it go? See now John has got his Valentine’s day shopping all done, thanks to

MG Siegler Yeah but he’s not paying for it.

John C. Dvorak What?

Leo Laporte Yeah, it doesn’t count if you don’t pay for it. You know John I bet you Mimi would love these beautiful diamond earrings.

John C. Dvorak She’d actually like this.

Leo Laporte Would she like the rubies? It’s pretty, isn’t it? Isn’t that gorgeous? I love rubies. I gave my wife rubies after she had our first baby which to signify the blood that had been spilled.

John C. Dvorak It looks more like sapphire to me. You sure it’s rubies.

Larry Magid Well you should see what’s behind you the expressions.

Leo Laporte I can see.

Larry Magid Yeah, it’s going to be bad.

Leo Laporte Yeah it didn’t – well that’s about how well it went over too, let me tell you. So – no I think that’s rubies, here is a ruby pendant , look at this. This is just gorgeous. Eileen wanted to model all this. What do you have – what are you wearing Eileen?

Eileen Rivera I am wearing a ring.

Leo Laporte Okay, let me see the ring – let me see the ring. This is a beautiful, oh black and white diamond ring. You don’t see that.

John C. Dvorak It’s gorgeous.

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Larry Magid That’s because none of us actually shop in real store.

Leo Laporte It’s exactly right.

Larry Magid Yeah, right.

Leo Laporte It’s perfect, this is what geeks need.

Larry Magid Right.

Leo Laporte Get that valentine shopping done. I tell you what, don’t wait, because I wait till February 13 and there is no – thank you Eileen. Eileen Rivera, my producer and our jewelry model. John’s disappeared and I don’t know what – do you know if – did he take one?

Eileen Rivera Oh no, he gave it back.

Leo Laporte Oh man., we thank them for their support of This Week in Tech. Now john has actually wandered off, I don’t know maybe we bored him, I don’t know. He’s back. Moving on.

John C. Dvorak I talked to a guy back there, your friend who is doing --

Leo Laporte Who were you talking to?

John C. Dvorak Doing the new TWiT Cottage. You should talk about it on the air a little bit.

Leo Laporte Oh! You’re talking to Roger Ambrose --

John C. Dvorak Roger is back there and he is like a genius this guy.

Leo Laporte Well, you’ve seen the video. Have you seen the video? Yeah, no, he’s the guy who did – you are looking at me funny like you’re making that up.

John C. Dvorak No, he is a genius.

Leo Laporte He’s fantastic. He’s the guy that did the screensaver set, remember that beautiful screensaver set.

John C. Dvorak That’s the one they gouged him, yeah, gouged him.

Leo Laporte With the Archies. They gouged him?

John C. Dvorak No, they – he – just kidding.

Leo Laporte No he didn’t gouge anybody – okay, Tech Live set, remember that?

John C. Dvorak Oh that’s the one they gouged.

Leo Laporte $1 million?

John C. Dvorak Yeah.

Leo Laporte Screensaver set, nicer set, better set, worked better, $50,000.

John C. Dvorak You’re kidding.

Leo Laporte No. [ph] Because that’s where Roger…(30:03)

Larry Magid So that was the guy – it was the other guy that was the gouger.

Leo Laporte Yeah, oh yeah, we were the gougee. But it was TechLive.

John C. Dvorak So you are telling me Rogers did the – that other set for $50,000?

Leo Laporte Yes. Do you think I would hire…

Larry Magid Hey they are charging it up.

Leo Laporte Do you think I would hire the expensive guy? I’m not nuts. No, and it was the best set over. So he’s – you saw the video?

John C. Dvorak Yeah.

Leo Laporte It’s on YouTube. You did – did you really see it?

John C. Dvorak Yeah.

Leo Laporte The first walk through is they’ve – they’ve already done the demolition.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, you I’ll say, hi I’m Leo Laporte, come on let’s go, let’s go in.

Leo Laporte Let’s go in. I was doing my – by Bob Vila impression. And so that was pre demolition, before any kind of demolition.

John C. Dvorak Where is this building?

Leo Laporte Two blocks down, you won’t have any trouble, lots of parking, lots of free parking. Netflix passes 20 million subscribers and revealed all. That was a great story MG. We now finally know not only how much bandwidth Netflix uses but which cable company is the best to use with Netflix.

MG Siegler Yeah, that’s great. I love the way Netflix – you know, Reed Hastings has pretty good philosophy for putting information out there. You know, they put a lot of their internal slide decks out on the web and now they’re doing things like this so they’re calling out the best service provider.

Leo Laporte You got to figure this pissed the hell lot of some of these service providers.

MG Siegler Well, it definitely pissed the hell out of Clearwire because they were last there. But you know, they do bring up the point that of course they are wireless only where they’re compared to the wire counterparts of course.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I mean I’ve to say a 4G network doesn’t do as well as Comcast doesn’t tell me much. Number one was Charter Communications, speaking of TechTv, Paul Allen’s old cable company.

John C. Dvorak Yeah.

Leo Laporte Number two was – I can’t quite read the – read it, but it looks like Cox did pretty well. Everybody likes Cox.

John C. Dvorak Yeah. The [ph] cable mono (31:50) showed that they had the – what?

Leo Laporte Nothing.

John C. Dvorak The [ph] cable mono (31:52) company showed that they had the chops.

Leo Laporte I just like saying that.

John C. Dvorak Yeah.

Larry Magid Yeah, in fact I upgraded to cable when I got Netflix, so I got the Roku because it give you enough headroom to watch Netflix and TWiT and about 90 other things it seems, in fact TWiT is on the Roku as well.

Leo Laporte Yes, absolutely.

Larry Magid Watching – watch you on my big television set.

Leo Laporte We’re right next to...

Larry Magid You look good in 55 inches, Leo.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Larry Magid John, nothing much. But you look great in 55-inches. Now John, you [ph] don’t look good (32:20).

Leo Laporte We’re designed – we are designed for the big screen. I think this was probably a little bit having to do with the net neutrality debate, right? I mean what was interesting is the best – this kind of blew me away. The best two were Canadian cable companies – Rogers…

John C. Dvorak They’ve always had high speeds. Everybody in Canada complains bitterly about them.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Well, and they do definite…

Larry Magid It’s just like medicine, it works on broadband as well.

Leo Laporte It may in fact – they do bandwidth shaping, they admit it, they don’t hide it and it may in fact be that’s best ironically why they did so well because they were doing bandwidth shaping and making sure Netflix got enough bandwidth to do the job. Rogers peaked at 3 megabits pretty consistently. And so that was part of the test was you have to deliver the high – this surprise me, the highest quality Netflix stream. It was almost 5 megabits for HD, wasn’t it? It was something like that.

John C. Dvorak Yeah.

Leo Laporte And 3 megabits, that was the best sustained throughput anybody, then that was Rogers.

John C. Dvorak Well actually we probably have speeds that beat that up at the house in Port Angeles.

Leo Laporte Of course the – oh yeah, you have some weird though – you have some sort of strange connection.

John C. Dvorak We have a – the county’s fiber we have legally tapped into it and as of the – with the new router we’re getting 180 megabits per second with – just straight up.

Leo Laporte I’m sorry…

Larry Magid You’re okay?

Leo Laporte Gees, my mind froze.

Larry Magid That’s the – now we know, it’s – you say 180, and then next thing you know Leo freaks…

Leo Laporte Oh, I know. Well, no, the issue – I was trying to remember what the bandwidth caps are on Rogers because I think you can get 3 megabits sustained but you can only watch for two hours. No, I sure it’s – but I think it’s like 25 gigabytes. Chat-room, is there a bandwidth cap on Rogers? 60 gigabytes.

Larry Magid That’s a lot.

Leo Laporte So, so but that’s the issue, right? You can get 250 on Comcast. It wouldn’t be too hard to go blow through if you watched a movie a night at 3 megabits, wouldn’t be too hard to blow through 60 gigabytes and then they throttle you. [ph] Our [ph] rokwa (34:33) says he’s got 125 gigs a month. But I think there is – so there’s different plans I guess. 60 gigs is 2 gigs a night, that’s about one movie, something like that. Shaw, the cap is 135, so they have more caps there. Anything else to say about that?

John C. Dvorak No, I think this topic just dropped [indiscernible] (34:53) with it.

Leo Laporte Any other – any other conclusion? With my brain freeze.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, the brain freeze thing. It’s got everyone concerned while looking at you, worried.

Leo Laporte A stroke.

MG Siegler One of the post they talk about during the live call, I think Netflix didn’t dispute the fact that like a peak hours they can take up as much as 20%.

Leo Laporte Yeah. That’s amazing, isn’t it?

MG Siegler Total internet traffic. That’s pretty sane.

John C. Dvorak I thought it was more than that.

MG Siegler It’s probably is more than that. And then like, if that’s – you know, if they keep doing that, obviously the ISPs are going to get involved and try and – try and do something to make them pay or to make us pay more for that.

Leo Laporte Right. So...

Larry Magid And that’s already been an issue of course with them being indirectly asked to pay.

Leo Laporte Yeah, right.

Larry Magid The Comcast. And that came up conveniently during the middle of the net neutrality debate.

John C. Dvorak Since we have all this, say, these people here who are into this, what – what does everybody out there see as the best box, a Roku box or an Apple TV box or a Boxee?

Leo Laporte Google TV.

John C. Dvorak The Google TV, which is dead I believe.

Leo Laporte He’s a crap.

John C. Dvorak And you can also do this through an Xbox 360.

Leo Laporte You know, Veronica Belmont did a table on Tekzilla, kind of user created table.

Larry Magid Table?

Leo Laporte A – not a table, not a coffee table, a spreadsheet, all the different boxes and their capabilities and there’s – there is only one thing that does everything, that’s a computer. Everything else there’s hole somewhere. So you kind to have to – there’s no answer in other words, Johnny. You have to ask you do want to watch. If you want to watch iTunes, you have to have Apple TV, if you want to watch – to me, if you watch Netflix and you watch Amazon and you want to watch TWiT, I think the Roku is – there’s nothing better than Roku.

Larry Magid I agree with you Leo, I have a Roku, in fact I’ve got two of them.

Leo Laporte Especially the price.

Larry Magid And they’re – they’re inexpensive, I got one in my bedroom, one in my living room. For a while there I had a Windows PC hooked up to the TV, and it’s true I can watch a lot more but the aspect ratio was never right, the hassle [ph] was a little bit (36:50) too much.

Leo Laporte Too complicated.

Larry Magid The Google TV, again it’s not quite ready for prime time, I’ve got the Revue box from Logitech, I think that the Roku for right now is a good solution.

MG Siegler The interesting one will be, I think, when net – Xbox 360 is getting ready to add ESPN content, so it’ll be the first one with that right out of the box. That could be huge for millions of people who are going to want that content of course.

Leo Laporte Here’s a – here’s…

Larry Magid And if you have a consul, you already have the ability to watch in most cases Netflix and Amazon, so don’t go out and buy anything if you’ve already got an Xbox or a PlayStation 3. I think even the Wii supports video streaming.

Leo Laporte If you want to see the Veronica’s table, it’s and you just get some idea of how crazy it is. Google TV is the first column or who is the second column and just the capabilities, the things that can do and can’t do, the gaps, what kind of video codecs. I can imagine a consumer ever – well, if they do look at this just being frozen in – oh my God, I don’t – what should I do? I mean it’s just not clear. But I have to say, I mean the easiest thing to do is just say get a Roku box. If you want to watch Apple TV, get an Apple TV.

MG Siegler That was actually in the same Netflix earnings conference. They did actually talk about how there was so much hype that Netflix was going to be on the iPad when it launched – came out with an app or whatever. And – but they said the new Apple TV with Netflix built-in has already blown past what the iPad was saying in terms of streaming [ph] Netflix (38:28).

Leo Laporte Oh, interesting.

Larry Magid We have seen the iPad – up until last week I used to watch movies a lot on my iPad.

Leo Laporte You were the only one.

Larry Magid Then I got – then I got my 11-inch Mac Air and I actually prefer watching them on the Mac Air than I do the iPad. Is there anybody else seems...

MG Siegler Like as if it stands up naturally.

Larry Magid It stands up. It’s got the right face, got good aspect ratio. I used to actually just like it better. I haven’t actually used the iPad since I got the Air.

Leo Laporte I’m watching a movie, my arms are killing me.

Larry Magid Right. Right.

Leo Laporte Yeah. I like the MacBook Air a lot, I think it’s kind of to me that’s the best computer really. It’s just fantastic.

Larry Magid [Indiscernible] (39:00) I’m watching one now, yeah.

Leo Laporte Are you watching one now? Okay.

Larry Magid You have the 11 – you have the 11-inch.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I like the 1-inch.

Larry Magid Yeah, I got both. This is the 11 and I’m going to buy the [ph] not it’s a longer – (39:08)

Leo Laporte Just shut up.

Larry Magid Apple let me borrow it.

Leo Laporte They did?

Larry Magid So I could compare the two.

John C. Dvorak Apple let you borrow it?

Larry Magid John, maybe if you, they would let you borrow. Just to try. See here is the 13 if you got a shot of that.

Leo Laporte All right. Hold on a second.

John C. Dvorak You got two of them, you have two MacBook Airs?

Larry Magid Well, yeah, but they are going back, they are on loan. I’m going to buy one.

Leo Laporte [ph] So you say. (39:25)

Larry Magid Unless Leo gives me one.

MG Siegler Oh, that will be the day.

Leo Laporte I’m not giving away Airs anybody. Stop it.

Larry Magid That’s right. So I’m going to buy one.

Anas Qtiesh You can afford it Larry with your salary.

John C. Dvorak You don’t – don’t you live in a Hillsboro or something in a big mansion?

Larry Magid Palo Alto, come on, come on.

MG Siegler Palo Alto, holy crap, that’s pretty expensive.

Larry Magid I don’t live in Steve Jobs’ neighborhood. Little further south of that.

John C. Dvorak I still use a Zenith SuperSport.

Leo Laporte Oh shut up. Is it really – do you? Here’s the Netflix graph. It’s kind of hard to extract – no, always steal material, that’s what the chat-room is for. It’s kind of hard to extract this information.

John C. Dvorak That’s pretty difficult.

Leo Laporte But Clearwire is that red line at the bottom able to sustain about 1.4 megabits. You know what for 3G or 4G, that ain’t bad. I will take it. Interestingly enough Netflix admitted to using about a gigabit – 1 gigabyte an hour. So that’s

John C. Dvorak What speed do you absolutely have to have minimum to make the Netflix work.

Leo Laporte Well, what is smart, it has its steps down. So, the quality will do down I think a megabit and a half should be more than enough to watch HD material.

Larry Magid You know. I know I have more than 20 megabits through Comcast and it still steps down sometimes. I’m not quite sure why, I’d be watching movie …..

Leo Laporte That’s the point they are making is that, when they say 20 megabits, it’s not sustained. This has to be sustained.

Larry Magid Right, right.

Leo Laporte So that’s what you really looking at. And you see some of these like Clearwire up and down, up and down they can’t sustain it. So what you looking for is something that’s got fairly consistent. I’d say if you had 2 megabytes consistently, this is Verizon in the middle there, that would be more than adequate I think for hi-def content. But what also was an interesting revelation is that Netflix will use quite a bit more if it’s available, just that nobody makes it available.

John C. Dvorak Oh no! That’s a good thing about having your own fiber.

Leo Laporte So, do you watch – do you stream Netflix movies?

John C. Dvorak The house in the Port Angeles. We dropped the cable completely.

Leo Laporte You shouldn’t need it.

John C. Dvorak And they used – they would just watch stuff on Netflix and then they also buy programming occasionally if there’s some shows that they want to watch.

Leo Laporte Wall Street Journal says Hulu has decided or is at least thinking of changing what they do. I’m sure MG, you’re – you seem like a Hulu user.

MG Siegler You know, I do every once in a while but not that often mostly because it hasn’t been really available on any of the set top boxes. Of course it’s coming out now with the Hulu Plus stuff, but it sounds like from that article that they’re totally trying to pivot what they are doing when they going to become a cable provider but just online version and you pay a monthly fee, because it’s really interesting that when Hulu first launched everyone was talking about how either it’s going to be an iTunes killer or YouTube killer, but now it’s something totally different that Netflix is their main competition. And that time Netflix was just doing DVDs by mail. So no one saw that coming, but now that’s their main competition, so they totally have to change their structure and they are getting so much the pushback from the networks who own big chunks of the thing and they’re still giving their contents to iTunes and to Netflix. So it’s like – there’s really a lot going on there.

Leo Laporte What is it? Is it – now remember Hulu is first a company and then they use content from NBC I mean I am sorry Kable Co with the

John C. Dvorak Kabletown.

Leo Laporte Kabletown with the K, Walt Disney, News Corp. But Walt Disney, NBC and News Corp. seem to want to do something different than the owners of Hulu want to do. And of course ….

MG Siegler All right I think – like so Disney which owns ABC is even – they are talking about they’ve developed their own thing and then of course Disney’s largest shareholders Steve Jobs of course they want to work with iTunes on that stuff. But the only one not doing anything with them has been CBS and they’ve started in the side lines seems like, maybe that’s the right play now considering how tumultuous …

Larry Magid Doesn’t NBC own a chunk of Hulu? I thought they own like 30%.

Leo Laporte They all are partners. In order to get the content, guys, they are partners but that’s the problem, is that there is no controlling partner, so there is this battle going on. But if Hulu turns into a cable channel, that’s they have lost me. I pay Hulu Plus right now and it’s really marginal.

Larry Magid What are you paying?

Leo Laporte I think it was $10 a month, I think it’s 8 bucks.

Larry Magid Yes, I tried it out for a couple of weeks and I just wasn’t that impressed. And I am paying for Netflix happily. I have the $8 dollar program, I just – I don’t even bother with DVDs anymore

Leo Laporte By the way that’s another thing Roku does. It does Hulu Plus as well. So that’s a pretty good start. I think that’s a pretty compelling combination actually. You got Amazon so that I can buy and rent movies, everything that’s on iTunes is on Amazon pretty much.

Larry Magid And it stays in your locker, you can access …

Leo Laporte You keep forever, which I really like

Larry Magid It’s in the cloud. So you can watch in an aero plane, if you get to a hotel room you can watch it wherever you happen to be.

Leo Laporte Right. If they do – who wants Hulu? Who wants another cable channel…

John C. Dvorak Where do these guys come from?

Leo Laporte …an Internet cable channel?

John C. Dvorak The Roku guys show up. I mean they showed up and took over the place. There’s been a bunch of other guys have tried to do this. They do it all wrong they’re making mistakes.

Leo Laporte I will tell you what they did right. These guys, Roku originally made a slim – it was called a slim player, right? Something like that it was a streaming music box. It was actually very cool but only geeks would really care about it. It was a way of getting the music in your computer over to your stereo system via Wi-Fi. And I think the thing they did right is they said we need to make a simple box. Here’s the premise I got t connect my TV to the Internet. Everybody’s doing complicated stuff. We need to make a simple box; it’s got to be under a hundred bucks 99.99.

John C. Dvorak That’s for the high end one. Though they have a 50 bucks ………..

Leo Laporte But initially it was $99, they only had one now they’ve branched out. It’s got to be able to get hook up to the TV, hook up to the Internet and it’s going to be dead simple to use. And I think ….

Larry Magid It’s idiot proof. It takes seconds to hook up I mean – you put the HDMI cable in there, you tell it your Wi-Fi security code and you’re done.

MG Siegler Okay we’ll compare that.

Leo Laporte And they got Netflix.

John C. Dvorak Will now compare that to the Boxee Box.

Leo Laporte Piece of crap

John C. Dvorak What if Boxee do wrong ….

Leo Laporte Actually I shouldn’t say that.

John C. Dvorak ……. Early on in the game.

Leo Laporte I love the Boxee software. I think the Boxee software on a PC is better than the Boxee Box. But Boxees haven’t - all of these Boxees like the Google Box the reason they’re having trouble is the networks are blocking them. What good is it if you can’t watch TV on it?

Larry Magid You can surf the web on a Google TV if you really want to.

Leo Laporte But as soon as you get to

Larry Magid Right. You can’t get there.

Leo Laporte As soon as you go to the contents gone.

Larry Magid That’s why I keep a laptop in my living room. If I really want to go online while I am watching TV I usually have a laptop handy.

Leo Laporte So do you feel – have we answered your questions, John?

John C. Dvorak I just want people out there to know what to buy.

Leo Laporte Sucks right now basically but don’t – whatever you do. I bought – I have them all. My poor wife, I am leaving I had to write her a manual.

John C. Dvorak Where are you going?

Leo Laporte Oh! You keep want me to talk about this.

John C. Dvorak Just asked you.

Leo Laporte I will tell you, I’ll tell you in a second. But let me just finish this thought. So I am leaving I’ll be gone for three weeks which is ridiculous.

John C. Dvorak Wow!

Leo Laporte Yeah. And well, thank god for people like Tom Merritt, Sarah and Carey and everybody because we got good people here we can do great job. He’ll be doing TWiT next week. But I have to – my wife said, don’t leave without telling me how to use a TV. Because she can’t watch TV, so I had to write a manual.

John C. Dvorak You’ve actually had to write a manual how-to for your own house?

Leo Laporte You know why?

Larry Magid I have one.

Leo Laporte Of course you do, Larry. Because there’s seven ……

Larry Magid I have stickers on the different boxes [indiscernible] forget (46:48). When you want to watch a DVD, you’ve got to watch it on a PlayStation. But you have to turn on the audio system and set that and my daughter came in one time a couple of years ago and goes Daddy all I want do is watch television. Real funny, you’ve got to take this course first.

Leo Laporte No. You just can’t watch television.

John C. Dvorak That’s impossible.

Leo Laporte That’s the problem.

Leo Laporte So, yeah. There’s 7 HDMI inputs on this TV and they are all occupied. Boxee Box, Google TV, Apple TV, Roku Box, Xbox 360, DVD player and cable box.

John C. Dvorak I think an HDMI switcher is probably what you need.

Leo Laporte No, no, that’s actually worse because there’s another button you have to push. At least all seven are connected.

Larry Magid How often do you watch DVDs, Leo?

Leo Laporte I watched one last night.

Larry Magid I hardly ever watch them anymore.

Leo Laporte I watch a lot more Netflix streaming. I watch a lot more Netflix streaming but every once in a while Netflix has a movie that I really want to watch that you can’t. Well, I watched Nowhere Boy yesterday, but it was a piece of crap.

John C. Dvorak Why did you watch it then if it’s a piece of crap?

Leo Laporte Well I didn’t know. It seems like a good idea …

John C. Dvorak Can’t you figure it out in the first five minutes of the movie?

Leo Laporte I did and that’s the problem as I still – I thought it will get better. In the premise was this John – listen to this. But the trailer was good. John Lennon’s growing up. The youth of John Lennon as he is growing up and he meets Paul McCartney and that’s a great premise for a movie.

John C. Dvorak Is it?

Leo Laporte Yeah. It was a terrible movie.

Larry Magid You know, my favorite thing on Netflix is the old television shows.

Leo Laporte You know I know it’s an odd movie or a bad movie, when it comes on and says funded by the UK Council and underneath it, it says distributing lottery funds for television production. And that’s when I knew it. This isn’t going to be good. I am sorry go ahead, Larry.

Larry Magid No, I am watching a lot of old television shows. We got into Monk. Have you watched Monk?

Leo Laporte Monk’s a great show.

John C. Dvorak It’s on the air.

Larry Magid How many seasons there are? Running season 2 right now. And I never would have discovered that. I mean if it hadn’t been free on Netflix, with Roku, I never would have known that they existed.

Leo Laporte You know that’s true.

John C. Dvorak Try to keep up.

Leo Laporte I am watching crappy British show called Doc Martin.

John C. Dvorak Doc Martin is not crappy, it’s one of the great shows on television.

Leo Laporte Never would have heard of it.

MG Siegler It’s a terrific show.

Leo Laporte It on – it’s streaming on Netflix. It’s great.

John C. Dvorak I think the new season starts in a few weeks.

Leo Laporte So your Doc Martin fan.

John C. Dvorak Yeah.

Leo Laporte It’s not about shoes by the way.

John C. Dvorak No.

Leo Laporte It’s about a misogynist not misogynist – misanthropic…

John C. Dvorak It’s the grouchy old – perfect for me to watch. I get a lot of material from this show.

Leo Laporte He is a doctor. This is a – he’s like a really good doctor. He’s like House.

John C. Dvorak Just like me.

Leo Laporte Brilliant diagnostician. But he has the worst bad side manner. He is so mean and rude. And it’s a great premise for a movie and is up and ….

John C. Dvorak That’s well written.

Leo Laporte Actually The King’s Speech was funded by the UK Film Council.

MG Siegler Now you’re going lottery, watch out.

Leo Laporte Yeah. So I take it back. And that’s a good movie.

MG Siegler It’s considered the best by all the experts.

Leo Laporte Brilliant movie.

John C. Dvorak If you want to watch something good by the way talking about television, try to catch up and they ran, unfortunately, they just ran the retrospective on the first three episodes, is this show on Showtime called Episodes.

Leo Laporte Yes, is that good. I’ve seen it.

John C. Dvorak It’s hilarious.

Leo Laporte It confuses the hell out of me. Because I go to my cable box and they say Episodes, episode 1. And I think what is he – what? Is that a typo?

John C. Dvorak It’s impossible to find it. Because of the name – Google Episodes, you never find it.

Leo Laporte It’s a terrible. What’s it about?

John C. Dvorak It’s actually about these two British writers who have this hot show.

Leo Laporte Oh, yeah

John C. Dvorak They go to Hollywood and they run into the bunch of lying typical Hollywood sleazebag.

Leo Laporte Sleazebags.

John C. Dvorak Sleazeballs and douchebags and it’s hilarious.

Leo Laporte Oh, I’ve got to watch that. I saw the first episode. Episode one.

John C. Dvorak Episode one is available online, episode four, three and four are tonight so, you might want to…

Leo Laporte It just started, very exciting.

John C. Dvorak So, you – I interrupted you, you’ve interrupted me, and I’m interrupting you, which was you were talking about some place you’re going…

Leo Laporte I’m going to be…

John C. Dvorak Three weeks.

Leo Laporte It’s funny, because I’m not supposed to talk about this by the way…

John C. Dvorak What?

Leo Laporte Because I think it scares the advertisers if I say I’m going to be gone for three weeks.

John C. Dvorak Why? The advertisers they’ll probably do well with you’ve gone for three weeks because you – you know I tell you why.

Leo Laporte You better – fix that.

John C. Dvorak I’m going to save it. I’m going to save it.

Leo Laporte Think fast John…

John C. Dvorak It’s because Merritt and everybody else who works here knows how great you are at selling something, they will overdo it and they’re going to actually bonus the advertisers…

Leo Laporte Actually – it’s actually true. They do – you know we’ve looked – well, it’s not that their concern of the ads will be bad, they concern that the audience won’t listen. But we’ve looked at downloads and Tom, people love Tom.

John C. Dvorak Tom is great.

Leo Laporte The way he’s go up when he’s on, so, it’s absolutely not…

John C. Dvorak Probably not on this show so much but maybe…

Leo Laporte Well, it’s hard for this show to have better ratings than it already has.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, Tom is…

Leo Laporte Actually – everybody in the world already listens to his show.

John C. Dvorak I’m actually surprised that Tom works as hard as he does.

Leo Laporte Okay, let me think about that. Why are you surprised…

John C. Dvorak Why is every question I have some sort of a conundrum to you?

Leo Laporte John has given me a stroke. I don’t know what’s going on, I can actually think of you and…

John C. Dvorak You know what – talk about where you’re going.

Leo Laporte I am going on a three week trip to Patagonia.

John C. Dvorak What?

Leo Laporte Patagonia.

John C. Dvorak Isn’t that a bar in the south part of San Francisco?

Leo Laporte I think it’s in catalogue. That’s what they call this region. So, I’m flying – Tuesday I’m flying to Buenos Aires. I’m going to eat Steak Galore.

John C. Dvorak Oh. They have great meat in there.

Leo Laporte Great meat.

John C. Dvorak Great meat.

Leo Laporte Great meat, and I’ve heard excellent Dulce de Leche Ice Cream.

John C. Dvorak That wouldn’t surprise me.

Leo Laporte Infact there apparently is some sort of competition in Buenos Aires for the best Dulce de Leche and I would like to be a judge. I’m going down there, I’ll tell you. And then, as soon – then I get on a – a couple of days in Buenos Aires, which, because I just to wander around like this.

John C. Dvorak Everybody loves Buenos Aires. It supposed to be the Paris of the ‘50s.

Leo Laporte Right.

John C. Dvorak Right.

Leo Laporte And by the way, apparently a lot of Italian speakers as well as Spanish speakers.

John C. Dvorak Oh, there’s Italians in Brazil and Argentina. Tons of them, infact some of the best – your food is out there, some of the best full Parmesan cheese is actually made in Argentina.

Leo Laporte Oh yeah, I’m going to ask for some full Parmesan.

John C. Dvorak Well, they call it Parmesan.

Leo Laporte Parmesan Argentina. And then I’m going to get on a boat and that boat is going to go down to the Falkland Islands where I’m going to declare the Sovereignty of the Argentinean people and start another war. And no, actually I’m going to see the Penguin Rookeries, which I’m very excited about.

John C. Dvorak In the Falklands?

Leo Laporte the Falklands.

John C. Dvorak Okay.

Leo Laporte I might buy some wool.

John C. Dvorak Take pictures.

Leo Laporte Of course, I’ll take pictures and then we sail through the Tierra del Fuego to Ushuaia Argentina and then the Fiordes and the Beagle Channel.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, okay, well just get to the…

Leo Laporte Punta Arenas, I’m going to take a plane to Antarctica.

John C. Dvorak Why?

Leo Laporte Walk around, see if there’s anything there.

John C. Dvorak They’ll just drop you off in a parachutes; I mean do you have a place to land there.

Leo Laporte Yeah, we’re going to Frei bays, which is the Chilean Air Force’s base in Antarctica and we’ll wander around, take more pictures.

John C. Dvorak You need a special Visa to go there?

Leo Laporte I think so, that’s cool. There’s all sort of stuff. I’m going to declare it Leo Land.

John C. Dvorak So, you’re going to go to Antarctica.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

John C. Dvorak Okay.

Leo Laporte That’s my seventh continent by the way. Have you been to all seven continents?

John C. Dvorak No. I have not been to Antarctica.

Leo Laporte Me neither that’s why. It’s my goal to hit seven before 70.

John C. Dvorak Well, you made it.

Leo Laporte I made it. Fairly, and then from there we go through Cape Horn by the way, well I notice you wearing your Cape Horn jacket.

John C. Dvorak Yes.

Leo Laporte There’s very rough seas there.

John C. Dvorak I’ve heard that. It’s – I’ve seen Cape Horn actually, or it’s Cape of Good Hope, one of the two.

Leo Laporte One of them. I’m going to go up and around and then up – up the side there, Chile, going to stop in Chile, we’re going to – the cruise ends in Santiago. And then we’re taking a plane from Santiago to Cusco, actually first to Lima, then I think a plane or a train –

John C. Dvorak Lima is fun. It’s a great town.

Leo Laporte I’m looking forward to it…

John C. Dvorak I love it. Just walk around. Beautiful town.

MG Siegler You’re going to go over to the mountains?

Leo Laporte Yeah, I’m going to Machu Picchu

MG Siegler Well, I’m going to tell you right now no matter what they tell you, chew the cocoa leaves.

Leo Laporte Oh, I’m going to chew the cocoa leaves, I’m going to drink the cocoa tea. Somebody sent me an email saying that.

MG Siegler And I also hope its Appalachian, high altitude...

Leo Laporte They said, “you can’t “, yeah I have that pill, I got that pill. A bunch of my doctors gave me the pill, he said okay, four hours later I was back in the hospital. No, it’s diaoretic, they said – these are the problem is that the high altitude your brain swells and so, you get brain edema or whatever.

John C. Dvorak Well, like I’ve mentioned, did you get terrible headaches.

Leo Laporte Yeah, terrible headaches, so, they give you diaphoretic and that makes you…

John C. Dvorak Cocoa tea, they have it all over the place.

Leo Laporte I’m going – when you get to the hotel.

John C. Dvorak They have it at the airport.

Leo Laporte I’m staying at the Monasterio.

John C. Dvorak Okay.

Leo Laporte Which is right there in Machu Picchu. When you get there, they gave you the cocoa tea but then somebody sent me an email saying, “whatever you do don’t bring the cocoa tea back”, because they’ll – not only will confiscate it but then its on your record.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, don’t bring the cocoa tea back. But, they have when you’ll find the old timers up there that chew the leaves, big bags of them.

Leo Laporte Those are the ones that their teeth are all black and…

John C. Dvorak While you chew on the leaves it’s like chewing chalk tobacco, you chew and chew and chew you shove it in between your whatever. And it – the funny thing is you will be, it doesn’t, there’s no buzz involved which is – it’s a myth.

Leo Laporte What?

John C. Dvorak Yes.

Leo Laporte What’s the point.

John C. Dvorak There’s no buzz involved, the point is…

Leo Laporte It’s not like cocaine, it’s what they made cocaine out of them, right?

John C. Dvorak Cocaine is derived from it yes, but there’s all kinds of other things in there who knows what it does.

Leo Laporte Oh!

John C. Dvorak And the fact of the matter is when it gives you stamina, which you’re going to need because you’ll see that, you’ll see all these young people that refuse to chew the cocoa leaves and…

Leo Laporte Oh, no no no

John C. Dvorak And you all will just zoom right by them.

Leo Laporte Yeah, my swollen head.

John C. Dvorak I’m going to tell you, it’s unbelievable.

Leo Laporte I can’t move my head, it’s so swollen. Anyway, so, with Machu Picchu which is the Inca ruins and then home again. This is going to be fun. I will pose pictures, I’m going to, you know, do the whole thing. The whole social media thing, although bandwidth is very expensive on a boat.

John C. Dvorak Will you tweet?

Leo Laporte I will try to tweet.

John C. Dvorak [ph] That’s why there is (56:11) a revolution.

Leo Laporte I could try to tweet.

John C. Dvorak Just take the photos and show them later who cares. What’s the point of showing everything immediately.

Leo Laporte Well, that’s what – you know what, I’ve really realized, I don’t use the iPhone day-in day-out. I know you do MG, because I can see everything you eat…

MG Siegler Yes, that’s very true.

Leo Laporte Hands to grams, every damn thing he eats.

MG Siegler And every beer I drink.

Leo Laporte And every – a lot of beer, lot of beer. Someday, I too will go to café Byron. But…

MG Siegler Hotel Byron

Leo Laporte Hotel Byron.

MG Siegler Street, yeah.

John C. Dvorak These places down there, use facebook places, tell everybody where you are all the time.

Leo Laporte He’s already -- MG is already instagrammed this show.

MG Siegler I just did.

Leo Laporte He’s really – he’s really out of control here, look at this. He has already instagrammed this show. Why not?

MG Siegler That’s what I say, why not?

Leo Laporte So, let me make it a fact, and then so, but you see this is what I realized when I started using the iPhone. Is it’s kind of cool because there’s all these photo apps in here and it’s instant it’s like a decent, not that great, but a decent camera with a lot of software. Look at this, this is – an 8mm movie, it’s called 8mm Recorder and it makes what looks like old movies. If you touch this button -- the gait jumps. You see that. And you can choose different frames, different styles and it puts a lot of dirt on the movies. So, I’m going to take a picture of me in Antarctica as if I’m like pre re-discovering the pole. That’ll be cool.

John C. Dvorak So, you’re really a bored person mostly.

Leo Laporte Yeah, I’ve got nothing going on. I got nothing here.

Larry Magid All right, let’s take a break because, I’m tired.

MG Siegler Tired!

Leo Laporte I just want to take a break now, no I want to talk a little bit about GoToMeeting if you don’t mind.

John C. Dvorak I’m going to take a minute.

Leo Laporte Yeah, you can go away, and anybody who wants to take a break. When we come back, I’m going to tell you why it is the endtimes and it has to do with Kim Kardashian.

John C. Dvorak I think, you nailed it.

Leo Laporte It is, the endtimes. Sio first I want to talk a little bit about our friends at Citrix pseudo that great GoToMeeting program, you’ve heard me talk so often about. We don’t do – conference calls here at the TWiT cottage anymore. We do GoToMeetings, yeah everybody I think everybody these days is working with people around the country maybe around the world the developer in New Mexico or an agency in New York, or a project manager in London. Some, development group in Bangalore and those conference calls. You know obviously in person meetings, which are just not affordable not economical and then so, you do a lot of conference calls but those conference calls aren’t that great either. Because people lose their attention, they wander off, exactly what just happened.

So, that’s right GoToMeeting, it galvanizes, I mean it grabs them and keeps their attention. You can set up your online meetings in advance or start them on the fly. Everyone in the meeting just logs on to even and this is important if they don’t have the software. So, they don’t have to already be set up, you just sent them a link and it’s already there, they’re already going., thank you, you can get going right now.

Go to GoToMeeting, I’m going to type it in here, as a special you are, it’ll get you set up for 30 days absolutely free so, you can really get a sense of what GoToMeeting can do for you. Did I do it wrong?, oh, there you go, I typed it wrong, GoToMeeting is $49 normally, $49 a month, but you can get it free for the first 30 days and that will include by the way free voice-over-IP and free teleconferencing. Let me put it up here,, 30 days free, give it a try, I know you’re going to like it. Do more and travel less with We are talking about the end times. MG Siegler is here from TechCrunch, it’s great to have you MG. Do you have a beer in front of you right now?

MG Siegler I don’t, this is water, I am sorry, later.

Leo Laporte Unplug your headset and plug it in again, you’re getting that weird [ph] silon (60:35) effect.

MG Siegler Let me do that.

Leo Laporte We find it happens exactly one hour into the show, I don’t know what that is. I think it‘s a memory problem with the…

MG Siegler How’s it going now?

Leo Laporte All better. All better. Also with us Larry Magid who has his professional radio equipment and a beer.

Larry Magid I do, it’s a real microphone.

Leo Laporte Yeah. So he sounds good, from John C. Dvorak and I’m Leo Laporte, I think it’s the end times and I’ll tell you why. If you look at Twitter rankings, number one, Lady Gaga with 7.9 million followers okay, Justin Bieber, Britney Spears, then the President of The United States but what’s really scaring Kim Kardashian coming on strong. Kim and Ashton Kutcher. We’ll in sometime, I think that we should have a clock watching this, at sometime in the next week based on the graphs, based on growth both Kim Kardashian and Ashton Kutcher will have more Twitter followers than the President of The United States, John C. Dvorak what do you think?

John C. Dvorak For a good reason.

Leo Laporte For a good reason?

John C. Dvorak Yeah. It’s just a bunch of bull crap, that’s the reason.

Larry Magid For once I agree with John.

Leo Laporte You really don’t want to read the President’s tweets anyway, come on.

John C. Dvorak Oh they are all – they are just…

Leo Laporte Generic.

John C. Dvorak Yeah.

MG Siegler Oh I don’t think the President [ph] is reachable (61:52)

John C. Dvorak Is he really tweeting? Does he even know what it is?

Leo Laporte I talked – in fact if you watch tomorrow morning around 9:00 A.M. on your local ABC affiliate. I –you will see me teach Regis Philbin how to tweet.

John C. Dvorak Are you going to be in New York? You are taking off…

Leo Laporte I did it last week, we pre-take…

John C. Dvorak Oh, wait a minute, you are telling me you are not going to be on live on – Regis and Kathie live, you’re not going to be live?

Leo Laporte First of all, Kelly hasn’t been – it’s Kelly…

John C. Dvorak Kelly I mean.

Leo Laporte Kathie hasn’t done it for years.

John C. Dvorak But this is live, isn’t it…

Leo Laporte It was live, when I did it, it was live, but now it’s not.

John C. Dvorak Oh, now I’m disappointed.

Leo Laporte No, I did the show live weekend – last – a week ago, two weeks ago I did the show live.

John C. Dvorak Of course you did it live…

Leo Laporte And then – no I did a full live show that was live, live on the air, I showed gadgets and then they said come upstairs to Regis’ office.

John C. Dvorak Oh!

Leo Laporte That’s when you know you are in an inner circle.

John C. Dvorak It’s a package, what’s the office like?

Leo Laporte Oh it’s – he’s big into the Notre Dame Football, really, are you a Packers or a Steelers kind of a fan?

John C. Dvorak I’d go with the Packers because we have our local boy Aaron Rodgers is the quarterback from the University of California.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

John C. Dvorak So I mean, come on.

Leo Laporte All right. So I’m going to root for the Packers too, MG, Packers?

MG Siegler Yeah, probably Packers, because I’m from Cleveland and hate the Steelers, so…

Leo Laporte Oh. The rivalry [indiscernible] (62:59)…

John C. Dvorak Everyone has a reason.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

John C. Dvorak I wouldn’t be surprised which team wins, neither one would surprise and I mean Ben Roethlisberger is an amazing character and he’d be hard – he’s going to be to beat but – I think also I think these games are rigged.

Leo Laporte What?

John C. Dvorak And I think the nation has rigged this game so they can have a team that can has the color green for the purposes of making everybody aware…

Leo Laporte Oh.

John C. Dvorak …of the word green. You see the NBC logo is green, everything is green and so…

Leo Laporte Yeah, everything is green now.

John C. Dvorak So I think, they are not going to let black win.

Leo Laporte Hey cable…

Larry Magid I want to follow up because I accidentally agreed with John when he said that the President with a bunch of bull crap and I actually do agree that the President is over exposed on the Internet because I get email from him, I’m always bragging, oh I got an email from Obama.

Leo Laporte I get text messages from him.

Larry Magid Everybody gets them.

John C. Dvorak Oh yeah you do.

Larry Magid But the fact is I just think it’s interesting, it’s not bull crap, but it’s a bit much these days and I’m getting a little inundated with it.

Leo Laporte Well, it’s funny because of course Obama really I think partly got elected because of his ability to galvanize support on the Internet and get more donations than any candidate in history almost twice what the – that other guy, what was – he was your candidate, I can’t remember his name. The old guy…

Larry Magid He was about John’s age I think.

John C. Dvorak I can’t remember his name.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Larry Magid McCain.

John C. Dvorak McCain, are you sure?

Leo Laporte You know John…

John C. Dvorak I thought it was Humphrey.

Leo Laporte I have to give you credit because I think it was 2009 or no I’m sorry that wouldn’t have worked, it was 2007 that you said that McCain was going to be the Republican candidate and I thought that you were nuts.

John C. Dvorak Oh that’s right, you made a big stink about saying I was nuts.

Leo Laporte Yeah and you were absolutely right, you picked it.

MG Siegler [indiscernible] (64:31) Obama.

Leo Laporte Did you?

MG Siegler Six months before the election.

John C. Dvorak And I also picked Sarah Palin to be honest about it.

Leo Laporte No, you did not.

John C. Dvorak No, I tell you what it was, it was I had run into Sarah Palin about a year earlier and she was in Alaska magazines, I mean and I was looking at her and just her bio and her background and everything, I never heard her speak, if I’d heard her speak, it’d been a different story because I think she’s – I can’t stand…

Leo Laporte The accent’s a little – the accent’s a little much.

John C. Dvorak And as soon as I saw I said holy crap this woman has got so many crabs why don’t they run her for Vice President.

Leo Laporte Interesting.

John C. Dvorak And I actually pointed this out and then the next thing you know she got it.

Leo Laporte Wow.

Larry Magid So you’re to blame John.

John C. Dvorak No I’m not to blame I just said I called, I saw it coming but I think it’s the same thing that happened to the campaign, they looked at her creds, she looks good on paper, she’s pretty but they never listen to her speak. I mean she – I know her voice is enough, it’s grading.

Leo Laporte In any of it, what I was saying was that Obama was very good at using the Internet during the election and there were, oh I think there is legitimate complaints that he has not been as good galvanizing people through the Internet since.

John C. Dvorak Well…

Leo Laporte And yet you’re getting a lot of messages from there.

John C. Dvorak I’d go back to Joe Trippi and Howard Dean, I think those…

Leo Laporte Dean seemed to know what he was doing.

John C. Dvorak That’s when it was established that you could really do a lot of work with the Internet.

Leo Laporte Dean raised a lot of money on the Internet, did very well.

Larry Magid I think there is such a thing as over exposure, it’s putting out too much on the Internet to the point where you just start ignoring it, I think I’d appreciate Obama more if I got one message a week from him rather than several a day.

Leo Laporte You know there might be something they said, and Ted Koppel called it the Vanna White effect. Ted Koppel said nobody knows my politics so they project upon me just as they project upon Vanna White a personality, they project upon me, my politics and people tend to like you better if don’t know much about you because they project upon you something that they like, they may project likable characters.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, especially if you’re vague.

Leo Laporte So in fact it could very well be that it’s a mistake to be too public and after all I think the President – probably good if the President kind of retreated to the Oval Office and didn’t – we just presume that he was thinking deep thoughts.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, I agree with that 100%.

Leo Laporte But in maybe a more controlled way.

Larry Magid I mean I think he did a great job [ph] indiscernible (66:39).

Leo Laporte I don’t want to be advocating this, I don’t think that that’s a good thing to do, but I mean in general I think it’s good to be public and open and – but maybe it’s – maybe it’s this particular President.

John C. Dvorak I think all the Presidents from now on are going to do this.

Larry Magid [Indiscernible] (66:53) and tell him how to operate.

Leo Laporte You think everybody from now on will tweet and…

Larry Magid Yeah.

Leo Laporte Well I remember you know we made a big deal when Jimmy Carter sent the first email and then…

John C. Dvorak The first President you mean?

Leo Laporte First, yeah, [ph] he did some frenzy though (67:06). He was the first President to use email, actually I don’t think he even used it, he sent an email.

John C. Dvorak Yeah.

Leo Laporte Yeah. I don’t know but maybe George Bush was – I don’t know who was the first.

John C. Dvorak George Bush didn’t like.

Leo Laporte He didn’t do anything.

John C. Dvorak Nobody.

Larry Magid Bill Clinton actually was not that tech savvy but of course he had Al Gore working for him who invented the Internet, so he didn’t have to be.

Leo Laporte Right.

Larry Magid And Gore actually was very tech savvy, still is very tech savvy guy.

Leo Laporte Here’s one for you MGM and I’m really curious if this is the case, Nokia who is obviously struggling a little bit these days in the cell phone market, has said many, many times, no, no, we like Symbian, we like our operating system, we’re not going to use Android, but the new CEO Stephen Elop…

John C. Dvorak From Microsoft.

Leo Laporte From Microsoft said that they are going to announce a major smartphone strategies shift in February, February 11, and here is the quote, Nokia must compete on an ecosystem to ecosystem basis, in addition to great devices we must build, catalyze and/or join a competitive ecosystem. MG do you think this means Android for Nokia?

MG Siegler Well, it is really interesting. They have stuck with the company line for all this time, that they were going to build their – just wanted to do their own systems, they wanted to control both the hardware and the software, the more kind of MeeGo stuff and they are doing all this other kind of stuff, but that does definitely leave the door open, but I think like – I think there was a Business Insider article that has suggested it would be Android because that’s kind of logical step for it of course it’s open source, they could use it for free.

Leo Laporte Right.

MG Siegler And more importantly they can manipulate it the way they want, but it’s still – I wouldn’t rule out them going with Windows phone.

Leo Laporte Since he is from Microsoft…

MG Siegler Of course, he [indiscernible] (68:54) from Microsoft, he has still good relationship with them of course, that’s been talked a little bit about and the fact that Windows phone is not doing that great, the hardware itself gets a lot of praise than the software, but it’s still not selling great. They need to do something to shake up the market and a partnership with Nokia would be huge.

Larry Magid It’s all about an ecosystem and that’s why Android is useful that’s why iPhone is useful, if Nokia could help create that ecosystem…

Leo Laporte Yeah of course.

Larry Magid …especially in the developing world where it’s got such a strong base then it almost doesn’t matter what it chooses but it’s better to choose something that’s out there already, I would vote for Android but maybe Windows 7 would be an adequate choice as well.

MG Siegler Yeah but – I mean will Elop really – they would be like spitting in Microsoft’s face if they do that. I mean that’s the…

John C. Dvorak Exactly.

MG Siegler …Android came along and killed Windows mobile, so I mean this – Elop just…

John C. Dvorak Actually if you go to MarketWatch, I wrote a column about this last Friday exact issue and I concluded that because he came from Microsoft he knows that if he picks Android it would probably be the death knell for the Microsoft Windows Phone 7, so he has to pick them both because Nokia can do this and they can bring out both phones and they’ll just bring out a limited version of the Microsoft ones, if they take off then fine, if they don’t take off you can say “hey I tried” and you can drop them later. But there’s no way they’re going to ignore the Android operating system because of the apps. And they – they can’t throw all their eggs into the Microsoft basket; it’s not possible so they have to pick both. They can’t pick one because they can’t – they’ll lose out if they pick Microsoft, and they pick Android then they’ll sync Microsoft and he can’t do that easily, he’s not that kind of a person. So I think you watch, it should be both.

MG Siegler But they could do something temporarily. Seems like they’re still are obviously pouring resources until what they actually want to do. But it’s at least a year out, maybe a couple of years out. So maybe they do something temporarily and maybe they see if they can help float Windows Phone for a while. Since it is – it gotten a lot of praise, it’s just they’ve come so late to the game that they just don’t have the hardware…

John C. Dvorak Exactly, it’s becoming so late, too little too late – it’s just – it’s really kind of pathetic, because everybody likes it.

Leo Laporte I like it.

John C. Dvorak Yeah everybody likes it.

Larry Magid So MG, what about the fact that Nokia is so strong in the developing world? I mean did that say anything about their strategy that the people – most of the people who buy their handsets are not going to spent $200 for a handset.

MG Siegler Yeah, that’s very true. I think that for sure they still use Symbian in their so-called dumb phones; the non-smartphone variety of the feature phones. But even that’s declining just because overall the entire market is shifting towards these smartphones and soon there will be really, really cheap Android phones that can also take off in the developing world. Maybe that’s a year out, maybe that’s two years out. But eventually those who will be able to compete in price with the feature phones that we’ve see now.

Larry Magid Right. And that’s what I think Android would be the best choice for them, I think that’s what they can get into India, Africa and the other areas where I think their enormous installed base and growth potential is really terrific for smartphones, if they are [ph] shipping. (71:48)

MG Siegler Sure, and it totally makes a lot of sense that they should go with Android. So the question is just would Elop do that to Microsoft? I mean that would totally be screwing them.

Leo Laporte Now, let me quote John in this. First of all ,John, congratulations on the correct use of the word abnegation in a sentence. Did you think twice about putting that in there?

John C. Dvorak I throw abnegation in every once in a while. It’s like a word I use – it’s a twice a year word, it criticize…

Leo Laporte It’s a good word. There is nothing wrong with it. Yeah. He says that if Elop picks Android it will signal an insider’s abnegation of the Windows Phone 7 platform, sending thousands of MarketWatch readers to the dictionary. Finally he says...

John C. Dvorak I think MarketWatch readers understand that.

Leo Laporte No, yeah, I am sure they do. It’s obvious from the context that, you mean that – it means that he will love Windows Phone 7. No, he also – he also said is that I don’t think Elop will have the guts to do that to his old company, which is interesting...

John C. Dvorak So they guts because the word I actually submitted was gonads.

Leo Laporte Really.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, that’s funny, they edited it.

Leo Laporte And he said – you say I will be stunned if Elop goes for Windows – full-out for Windows Phone 7. That would tell Nokia shareholders that all they got with him was a Microsoft stooge. That’s a very good point. Don’t you think the CEO coming from a company like Microsoft might even be a great pains to pick Android just because he wants to prove that he’s not.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, no I think that’s true but at the same time I do believe he would – he can’t just say – he just can’t say “screw you Microsoft”.

Leo Laporte So I think Windows Phone 7 does not have a bright future.

John C. Dvorak I don’t think it has a snowball’s chance because it’s too little, too late and it’s doesn’t have any buzz, the zero buzz. And a point I make in this column I also make elsewhere which is the fact that…

Leo Laporte Is buzz that important?

John C. Dvorak Well, yeah I think it is. But the other thing is their advertising is actually un-selling the product, because what they’re saying is look at all these phones, these people are preoccupied, they love their phones to the point where they don’t want to…

Leo Laporte Here is a phone you won’t love.

John C. Dvorak And here is a phone that you won’t be like, you don’t care, you don’t want to care about this phone. It doesn’t make sense; it’s the dumbest ads ever. I mean I think they are cute and funny but I don’t think they sell anything.

Leo Laporte Oh I like the one where they drops the phone in the urine.

John C. Dvorak I like the – I like that; I also like it when…

Leo Laporte A kid throws the ball…

John C. Dvorak I like the ball, I like the kid hitting the dad.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Those are funny, I mean I think those are well done but Microsoft for some reason has a – had a very difficult time finding a clever advertising strategy.

Larry Magid I know their Bing ads were funny, I like their Bing ads.

Leo Laporte Oh I hate the Bing ads.

Larry Magid I like it when the people sitting there and there all these things going through their head, making fun of Google. I don’t use Bing but I think their ads were funny.

John C. Dvorak Not effective apparently.

Leo Laporte I think the ads are not – are actually kind of disturbing. It feels like these people are somehow have had a psychotic break. And all of a sudden they’re saying just random words association.

Larry Magid That’s what they’re trying to make Google look like.

Leo Laporte I understand.

John C. Dvorak No you’re right, and I agree...

Leo Laporte But I don’t think it’s good to put that on the air, I think it’s creepy.

John C. Dvorak I think it’s totally creepy. I agree with you 100%.

Leo Laporte It’s like the redhead that killed the Pre. Remember her? Do you remember those?

MG Siegler Yeah, yeah.

Leo Laporte MG you remember those ads.

MG Siegler Yeah, yeah, yeah, like the – she’s kind of maybe like a birth child or something.

Leo Laporte We can’t quite figure out what she is?

MG Siegler Floating, slick woman – yeah…

John C. Dvorak Oh, that crazy looking woman that look with no eyebrows.

Leo Laporte Yeah, she was like an alien.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, yeah, that was bad. What were they thinking?

MG Siegler I don’t know.

Leo Laporte That’s interesting. I was searching for redhead and Pre on Google and I got redhead pre-lubed loads for your gun.

John C. Dvorak No you’re getting a…

Leo Laporte So, there you go.

MG Siegler But did you – Leo, did you like the…

Leo Laporte This is very straight out of the ads.

John C. Dvorak This is a family show, Leo come on.

Leo Laporte It’s straight out of the ads, I’m just trying to find the redhead and the ad. If you search for Pre and the redhead you get these weird things. I’m just trying to find the dang ad.

John C. Dvorak How about that – what kind of pictures [ph] do you get… (75:27)

Larry Magid That’s the point that he is trying to make.

Leo Laporte Yes, it is.

Larry Magid [Ph] It’s – that’s what they are trying to say. (75:31).

John C. Dvorak She is a Canadian…

Leo Laporte Off course she is. She is a Canadian. Well that explains the lack of eyebrows.

John C. Dvorak Well what are you saying here I don’t get it.

Leo Laporte Most Canadians are born without eyebrows; they actually have to paint them in so that people think they are Americans.

Larry Magid What is she selling?

Leo Laporte This is so creepy.

Larry Magid Yeah.

Leo Laporte Oh it’s a phone.

Leo Laporte See – you could see why this just never went anywhere. I mean that’s just a weird, weird ad.

Larry Magid So if you search Bing for Pre redhead, it comes out at the third, YouTube creepy Palm Pre commercial.

Leo Laporte That’s it, that’s it. Well there it tells you, I’m sure you can use in Bing.

John C. Dvorak They hand put that one in there.

Leo Laporte Now, we may see resurgence of Pre, but it’s going to be a great month. February is going to be great month for announcements. HP has got an announcement. We think it might be the new webOS, webOS 2.0.

John C. Dvorak You’re going to be in Antarctica…

Leo Laporte And I’ll be freezing my ass off while you guys are having such a great time.

Larry Magid Google’s got something coming up this week; they’ve got a Honeycomb announcement later in the week.

MG Siegler Yeah.

Leo Laporte Every time – now maybe is it just me – now maybe it’s my ear, I heard something, but every time I hear Google-Honeycomb I want to go Honeycomb, is that me?

Larry Magid Honeycomb…

John C. Dvorak Jimmie Rodgers.

Leo Laporte Yeah, it’s not just me.

Larry Magid Yeah, me too.

John C. Dvorak No, it’s just you, Leo, actually.

Leo Laporte You know the name – you at least knew it was Jimmie Rodgers. So this event is not Google I/O, this is the before Google I/O.

Larry Magid Right. It’s – I think – is it Tuesday, MG?

Leo Laporte Did you get the [ph] invite (77:09), MG?

MG Siegler I think it’s Wednesday.

Leo Laporte Wednesday February 2.

Larry Magid Wednesday, Wednesday because I’m going to be in Florida, it’s going to be on Wednesday.

John C. Dvorak What you’re going to do in Florida there, Larry?

Larry Magid I’m going to be speaking at the Florida Educational Technology Conference. So if you’re in Orlando come see me at the FETC on Wednesday afternoon.

Leo Laporte Huh.

John C. Dvorak Do you get in free, because it’s not one of those conferences we have to pay to get in or...

Larry Magid Oh you probably do. You probably have to be a teacher as well, so if you’re a teacher in Florida, come by.

John C. Dvorak Unless you are giving passes, I’m not coming.

Leo Laporte So tell me what this event will be.

Larry Magid Oh, they’re going to be having a press there at 10 o’clock I believe, it’s Wednesday morning California time and presumably they’re going to show off the features of Honeycomb which is not going to be a great surprise, we all know it’s coming…

Leo Laporte Right.

Larry Magid …and I guess we’ll get some details.

John C. Dvorak What is it? I don’t know anything about it?

Leo Laporte It’s the – it’s 3.0, it’s Android 3.0.

Larry Magid That’s the Android. It’s the Android tablet.

John C. Dvorak So what?

Larry Magid So it’s all about tablets.

John C. Dvorak You know, it wouldn’t surprise if they didn’t play the song.

Leo Laporte Do you hear it? I’m hearing it again.

John C. Dvorak Yeah I got – it’s in the ether.

Leo Laporte Every time – they say Honeycomb.

John C. Dvorak It was one of the worst songs ever. It makes no sense.

Larry Magid It’s going to be all about tablets so you know that’s what CES was about and that’s – I think that that’s going to be Google’s big push for 2011 is getting Android on the tablet and getting them out there in the millions.

MG Siegler Right. And this thing is completely redesigned from the ground up. I mean it doesn’t look anything like the other versions of Android that have come out.

Leo Laporte All I have ever seen is the video that they kept showing…

John C. Dvorak Will it run over the Nexus One?

MG Siegler No

Leo Laporte No

John C. Dvorak Well then what good is it?

Leo Laporte We’ll run – now MG I’ve heard that Google denies that it require dual cores, that was the original kind of rumor.

MG Siegler Right, yeah hopefully they’ll talk more about that obviously.

John C. Dvorak A dual core tablet?

Leo Laporte Yeah, well most of the new tablets are dual core, they’re using the NVIDIA Tegra 2. But – in fact I’m thinking Apple – what do you think MG, Apple probably do a dual core iPad?

MG Siegler Right, the iPad 2. This is actually – this Google event is going up against an Apple event because they’re having in the morning but in New York they’re doing the Daily, you know, that News Corp, an iPad event.

John C. Dvorak In the morning?

Leo Laporte In the morning.

MG Siegler [Indiscernible] (79:18) another. Yep.

Leo Laporte You know what’s interesting; I think Jeff Jarvis pointed this out, originally that was going to be Steve Jobs and Rupert Murdoch at the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art and Jeff said this is completely appropriate that they would announce a newspaper for the iPad at a museum and apparently not quite catching that, they are doing it anyway at a museum, obviously it won’t be Steve Job, I don’t even know from here, it’s funny. You wouldn’t think Rupert Murdoch would outlast Steve Jobs.

Larry Magid Are any of you guys excited at all about that product?

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Larry Magid Does that do much for anybody?

Leo Laporte No. I will probably install it just to take a look at it.

MG Siegler Yeah.

Leo Laporte We’re talking about Daily, The Daily, which will be a daily newspaper for the iPad. You know who is excited Larry and actually I thought this was kind of interesting? Somebody was telling me, a very well-known reporter who’s written for a number of very well-known newspapers.

Larry Magid David Pogue.

Leo Laporte No. This – he is always excited. He is very excited. He took a job, one of the hundred – they’re going to have a hundred journalists. And he is very excited having taken a job there, at the Daily.

John Dvorak Who?

Larry Magid I think it’s exciting that there are jobs for journalist

John Dvorak Who is --

Leo Laporte That’s why they are excited.

Larry Magid Right.

John Dvorak Do you ever think that David Pogue is just a tall Chris Pirillo? You ever noticed --

Leo Laporte Yeah, they are very similar. They are very similar.

John Dvorak When I first met Pogue, I said, what, this is just a tall Chris Pirillo.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Yeah, I think you’re right actually.

Larry Magid I don’t know if Chris plays the piano as well though.

Leo Laporte No, David plays very good piano. Was he at Macworld this year or no?

MG Siegler I didn’t see him.

Larry Magid I was there. I didn’t see him.

John Dvorak Why would he come? There was no Mac stuff there.

Leo Laporte Last year he gave the big keynote in Steve Jobs’ place.

Larry Magid Right.

Leo Laporte So, boy, now you know Macworld is in trouble. First, Apple pulls out. Then David Pogue pulls out. Boy, that’s got to --

Larry Magid And they get Sinbad as they are saying --

Leo Laporte They had Sinbad.

Larry Magid I have no idea what he said, [ph] talked about / stop the (81:02) piracy.

Leo Laporte Now you know. Yeah, right. Yo ho, yo ho. So, boy, did anybody go to Macworld? MG, you must --

John Dvorak I did.

Leo Laporte Yeah. Tell me about it.

John Dvorak Who?

Leo Laporte You.

John Dvorak Me?

Leo Laporte Yeah. You went?

John Dvorak Yeah.

Leo Laporte How was it?

John Dvorak It was terrible. I mean there was nothing there, but little, what do you call, cases, cases and cases and cases and cases of Blue Microphones people were there. And by the way, I was distressed by – I was asking them about comparing the Blue Microphones --

Leo Laporte The Yeti.

John Dvorak Yeah, and they also have these big expensive --

Leo Laporte Yeah, fancy ones, yeah.

John Dvorak Fancy ones; and I asked them how they compare to the PR --

Leo Laporte 40?

John Dvorak 40.

Leo Laporte The Heil mic?

John Dvorak Yeah, the Heil.

Leo Laporte Did they laugh?

John Dvorak No. The guy who – they sent me to a technical superstar and he didn’t know what Heil was.

Leo Laporte No, that’s not unusual.

John Dvorak Is that right?

Leo Laporte Yeah.

John Dvorak Well, Letterman has got one on his desk.

Leo Laporte I know.

Larry Magid So I was at Macworld, and you’re right, John, it was mostly cases and stands for the iPads.

Leo Laporte Lot of iPad stands, yeah.

John Dvorak Yeah, millions of iPad stands and iPhone stands.

Larry Magid Right.

John Dvorak Give me a break.

Larry Magid Oh, and keyboard, in fact, if I’ve got – hang on a sec.

Leo Laporte Oh, look, we’re going to get a show and tell.

John Dvorak Here we go. We get a show and tell, but there’s –

Larry Magid How many of you are watching the video.

John Dvorak This isn’t very good radio.

Leo Laporte I can tell you how – you know that the chat room is enjoying the show when they are now already proposing titles for it like it’s over.

John Dvorak Macworld Doom.

Larry Magid tyPad.

Leo Laporte Like it’s over.

Larry Magid This is a keyboard. We haven’t opened yet.

Leo Laporte tyPad.

Larry Magid Or a keyboard for the – keyboard case, that’s clever. It’s a case and a keyboard combined.

Leo Laporte Yeah. I keep saying people getting all excited about this. If you want a laptop, buy a freaking laptop.

Larry Magid Hey, it’s a crappy keyboard. That’s the problem. It’s not a good keyboard.

Leo Laporte But why would you buy an iPad and then spend hundreds more to get a stand and a keyboard?

John Dvorak Right.

Leo Laporte So, now it’s a laptop.

John Dvorak Right.

Leo Laporte You should have bought a laptop.

John Dvorak Right, it makes no sense.

Larry Magid Exactly. In fact, I think that the – for me, the Mac Air cannibalizes the iPad, but I already said that.

John Dvorak I don’t think so, no.

Leo Laporte MG, how was Macworld actually?

MG Siegler I actually – if you’re guys talking about it, it’s funny. I didn’t go. I had a pass to go but some other meetings and stuff took the place. But the main reason I didn’t go is exactly what you guys are talking about. It’s like Apple is not there anymore.

John Dvorak There is no Mac stuff.

MG Siegler I know there is going to be host of stands for the iPad and stuff.

John Dvorak And that’s called Macworld! It should be called iPodworld or iPadworld or---

Leo Laporte Oh, it’s been an iPad accessory show for a long time now --

John Dvorak There’s no Macs there. I saw like three Macs.

Leo Laporte That’s actually the thing that saddens me the most. In fact, I---

John Dvorak Where was Wakom? Where was Adobe?

Leo Laporte Right, I love the Macintosh computer. I really do. It’s a great computer. And I just think Apple is giving it short shrift. Only 10% of the booths were Mac booths. Apple’s now moved to the apps, this Apps Store, which is just – basically they are turning the Macintosh into iOS.

John Dvorak And it’s ridiculous.

Leo Laporte Sad to me.

John Dvorak Because the Macintosh has certain characteristics that nothing else can compete with it.

Leo Laporte I agree. It’s Unix.

John Dvorak The video editing, there is nothing else you can do like that. What’s the name of the video editor again?

Leo Laporte Final Cut

John Dvorak Final Cut Pro.

Larry Magid Well, the Final Cut and iMovie is the free one.

Leo Laporte True, this iMovie is pretty darn good.

Larry Magid Yeah, not bad. Hey, you know, I did a column for Huffington Post couple of weeks ago, which most people disagreed with, but I said that the iPad or tablets in general are a threat to our creativity that having these devices which so far don’t have decent keyboards and don’t have software that allows you to be highly creative except in a few areas, is actually not a good thing for our children. Now, 90% of the comments said I was --

Leo Laporte Think of the children, Larry. Think about children.

Larry Magid Well, I think about teachers replacing computers in the schools with tablets. And I am not sure that’s a good thing. I am not sure we want to dump down our kids to the point where they’re just punching. Yeah, maybe kids will learn to type on glass. That’s a possibility.

Leo Laporte Oh, why not? There you replaced education in school with computers; might as well just finish the job.

Larry Magid Finish the job, I don’t know. Most people thought I was full of crap and that I was not looking at the real vision.

John Dvorak I think we are all coming to the same conclusion here.

Leo Laporte Actually, I think a Macbook Air is the perfect school computer. The $999 Macbook Air with Google apps or some sort of cloud system is a great buy. We have three developers in here from a company called Digication that make a plug-in for – there actually was a standalone education app that they are now turning into a plug-in for Google Docs. I think that that’s a very natural place for a school to be.

John Dvorak Get the computers out of the schools.

Leo Laporte Well, sometimes I think reliance on computers is probably a bad thing for pedagogy.

Larry Magid I want kids to program --

Leo Laporte I think it’s an abnegation of pedagogy.

Larry Magid I don’t want kids – kids already know how to use computers. I want them to know how to program computers. I want them to be – where is the next Steve Wozniak going to come from and design computers. I don’t want to create a nation that all we can do is consume technology. We’ve already done that. Nobody can tune up their cars anymore.

Leo Laporte You know, actually I think --

John Dvorak Good point. You’re back on track.

Leo Laporte I’ve thought about this a lot because I talked to Richard Hart about this at CES.

John Dvorak You saw Richard?

Leo Laporte I did.

John Dvorak He was at CES?

Leo Laporte Yeah.

John Dvorak Why?

Leo Laporte You know what he is doing? He is teaching TV production at the Academy of Art in San Francisco. And I said, Richard, it must be really cool to get to work with young people who love and understand technology. He said, no, you’re kidding. They don’t know what tech – they don’t know anything.

John Dvorak Yeah. It’s a problem.

Leo Laporte The kids today, they don’t know how to format.

John Dvorak Today’s kids.

Leo Laporte They don’t know what a file system is because they never needed to. It’s just part of their --

Larry Magid Right.

Leo Laporte But after – he said that. And that kind of gave me that same feeling, Larry, of oh, my god, who is going to create the next generation of innovation. But there is --

John Dvorak Chinese.

Leo Laporte And then – well, no, you go to Hacker Spaces, you go to Maker Faire, if you look around, there are still – I think it’s always been a small percentage of people --

John Dvorak Yeah, you’re probably right.

Leo Laporte Who really get it, really know it, really love it, and nothing is going to stop them from creating, and those people exist. In fact, those are the people who listen to our shows. Those people exist which is a minority.

John Dvorak And that counts for the high CPM.

Leo Laporte What are you talking about?

John Dvorak The new studio you are getting.

Leo Laporte New studio, baby.

Larry Magid I just think that we have to figure out something that people can do in this country since --

Leo Laporte I agree.

Larry Magid There are no manufacturing jobs left.

Leo Laporte I agree.

Larry Magid I mean if we can’t be creative, we can’t produce something, we are in serious trouble. I am not saying you can’t do that on an iPad.

Leo Laporte But you don’t want to.

John Dvorak No, iPad is a delivery device. It’s not for doing anything.

MG Siegler Well, I mean I think that just computing in general is changing. We’re thinking of computing as the way that it’s been up until now which is computers. But all these mobile phones are actually computers. The iPad is actually a computer.

Leo Laporte Absolutely.

MG Siegler And people are just learning different things to do. They are making native apps but then they are also making web apps. And that’s all part of the same thing. It’s just evolving.

Leo Laporte Somebody is writing software. There is 300,000 iOS apps.

Larry Magid They are writing them on Macs. They are not writing them on iPads and iPhones.

Leo Laporte Well, no, I agree. So that’s the Steve Jobs truck analogy, right?

Larry Magid Exactly.

Leo Laporte But I don’t think --

Larry Magid It’s like he underestimates a lot of – there are a lot of trucks. You get outside of Silicon Valley and there are a ton of pick-up trucks because a lot of people --

Leo Laporte I think you’re being a little literal minded here, Larry.

Larry Magid Well, he was being – I thought the metaphor was very interesting.


Leo Laporte But I don’t think you can really – I see a lot of trucks still. So there are still trucks out there.

Larry Magid A lot of people still have the whole stuff.

Leo Laporte I think what it is, is that we expected – we had a science fiction view of the future and besides not having any flying cars --

John Dvorak Yeah, where is the flying cars?

Leo Laporte I think we fully expected that there would be this great – I did – deep understanding of technology in the generation that grew up with the Internet, and grew up with technology. And in fact, that’s not the case because it’s a utility for them. And so there’s always been a thin percentage of people who create, who innovate, who invent. The Steve Wozniaks have always been a rare commodity. I don’t think they are going to go away. I think there are plenty of them. I think they are just still a rare commodity. That’s not a usual skill.

MG Siegler Yeah.

Leo Laporte So anyway, I am more bullish than you perhaps, Larry. I agree with you that the iPad is a consumption device. I’ve always said that. And every time I say it, people say, but, oh, look, at all the things that I can do with it.

John Dvorak No, no, I agree with you 100%. In fact, I’ve written it up a couple of times. It’s a total consumption device. And people – that’s why they want because everyone else who did the Pad, they thought of it as an input device with the handwriting recognition and the voice recognition and all these. And it was not an input device. It’s an output device. And that’s just Steve Jobs’ genius.

Leo Laporte Right.

MG Siegler But we’ll see what happens when the iPad itself and when these other Android tablets actually get much more powerful. Right now they are pretty limited in terms of power. They run one application at a time, or if they do two, things start to really slow down.

Leo Laporte I don’t think it’s that, MG. I think it’s really that the iPad is the TV of the future. It’s a very personal consumption device by its very nature.

MG Siegler I think there will be some interesting things that people will be able to do with video editing like on the fly. Certainly, I don’t know if you’ve tried iMovie on the iPhone. It’s hard because it’s on a small screen but what they can do with that is pretty amazing. It’s amazing considering that it’s done on a phone but if you think about like if they make these devices much faster and there’s so many cool things you can do…

Leo Laporte Well, I will say that I’ve done Keynotes. Normally I’ll do a Keynote – that’s the Apple presentation manager on the MacBook and but I…

MG Siegler Yes, on the iPad.

Leo Laporte On the iPad and actually it’s really, it’s kind of fun to physically handle these things and size them. There are sometimes that touch is better for in terms of creation. I agree.

Larry Magid There are some great music apps for…

Leo Laporte Absolutely, absolutely.

Larry Magid … for all the iOS devices. And that’s the one thing I did see at Macworld that I liked or some of the music applications, using the iPad as a keyboard or a composing device for DJ. So it’s not totally without creative advantages, I am not trying to say completely. But in general, I think John and I agree that it’s primarily a consumption device.

Leo Laporte Yeah. I think the three of us agree…

John C. Dvorak I still have the Yamaha keyboard to do…

Leo Laporte There are better devices in almost every case for creating. Now, here’s the thing, now – this event that you talked about, John, News Corp. is going to have this event at the museum in New York City to announce daily. Jobs was scheduled to do it in San Francisco, obviously, Steve, and by the way, there’s another example. Are there other Steve Jobs out there? Are there – not just Wozniak’s but we need more Steve Jobs?

John C. Dvorak Just a minute, duplicate?

Leo Laporte The clones are in the event still but as soon as they are done, we’ll bring them out. So, Eddy Cue, do you know the name?

John C. Dvorak I’ve heard the name. I have no idea who this person is.

MG Siegler He’s the iPod guy at Apple. The iTunes guy.

John C. Dvorak Oh, that iPod guy, the famous guy, yes.

Leo Laporte He is going to be doing the event, Eddy, not Steve Jobs, Eddy Cue.

MG Siegler Right.

Leo Laporte Is he ..

MG Siegler Supposedly, the big component of this from Apple’s perspective at least that they are going to have this new subscription service that’s built into iTunes so that others besides just the Daily will be able to use it. That’s the…

Leo Laporte Yes, is this an important announcement?

MG Siegler Potentially, if the Daily or something like to think so.

Leo Laporte It’s an important announcement. Don’t you send Phil Schiller, don’t you send Tim Cook, don’t you send Scott Forstall, don’t you send somebody of stature and name, you send Eddy Cue.

MG Siegler Well, I think they are going through the roster and seeing who’s good at getting up on stage besides Jobs. Like you said, they wanted it to be Jobs obviously but he can’t do that. So who’s the guy who knows most about this, it’s Eddy Cue.

Larry Magid I think that part of what Apple has to do right now with the show, they’ve a roster that they’ve got a bench and obviously Tim Cook is a part of that bench, but I think bringing out some of their brighter stars…

John C. Dvorak Bring him off the bench let me make that three.

Leo Laporte Well, he better be good. If I were Rupert Murdoch, the CEO of News Corp. and my partner on stage is Eddy Cue, Product Manager for iTunes Subscription Services.

John C. Dvorak Have you ever seen him – is that what he sounds like a normal, like a generic nerd.

Leo Laporte Wait a minute, with a name like Eddy Cue, what else could he sound like?

MG Siegler No, I’ve interviewed the guy, he’s fine.

Leo Laporte Hi, I’m Eddy Cue.

John C. Dvorak Sound like a DJ.

Leo Laporte He’s got to be from Brooklyn. Eddy Cue. Ed – Eddy Cue.

John C. Dvorak You sound like – make him sound like mobster now.

Leo Laporte Did you see that T-Pain got a Facebook tattoo?

MG Siegler Yes, that’s awesome.

Leo Laporte What? That’s bizarre. T-Pain he’s a rapper. Am I right? He’s a rapper.

John C. Dvorak Hip hop.

Leo Laporte He’s the guy, he’s famous for Auto-Tuning everything. And look at this tattoo, it is about the – most hideous tattoo I’ve ever seen.

MG Siegler Oh my god.

John C. Dvorak It’s all swollen.

Leo Laporte Well, they say new tattoos always look like that.

MG Siegler Still swollen, so yeah – but that’s pretty funny.

Leo Laporte I like that he has 8-bit – an 8-bit like button.

Larry Magid By the way, you guys see Zuckerberg on Saturday Night Live this week?

Leo Laporte That was pretty funny. I would play that but then YouTube would pull the video off and we would lose 30,000 views.

John C. Dvorak Yes.

MG Siegler People ought to link on – you got to go look at that though, if you haven’t seen it.

Leo Laporte I actually played with it this morning.

John C. Dvorak I find it to be dull.

Leo Laporte You know it’s funny because Andy Samberg comes on and first you think Andy really is Mark Zuckerberg.

John C. Dvorak No, I didn’t realize until Zuckerberg came out and I knew that wasn’t Zuckerberg because he had personality.

Leo Laporte Exactly. That was the clue, was the guy had personality.

John C. Dvorak I didn’t realize how much he looks like Zuckerberg when they were both out there. So if he could dumb down the personality part, he do a perfect…

Leo Laporte Nebbish, Jewish nebbish.

Larry Magid Zuckerberg came on – Zuckerberg actually did a good job making fun of himself and it was a smart move.

Leo Laporte Oh! It’s great.

Larry Magid I think with a very clever…

Leo Laporte Because Eisenberg who played Zuckerberg in The Social Network and that movie is going to win a lot of Academy Awards, I think it’s not that bad. It’s foolish for Facebook to fight it. He’s on stage, the best thing they could have done is to have Mark come on stage…

John C. Dvorak Just to plug the movie so they can get more sales and they can maybe win the Academy Awards.

Leo Laporte And in fact if you think about it, The Social Network is the best thing that has ever happened to Zuck.

Larry Magid Absolutely.

Leo Laporte It made him a personality.

Larry Magid I know these guys pretty well. And people at Facebook…

John C. Dvorak Do they invite you over to their house for dinner is the question?

Larry Magid Do they what, John?

John C. Dvorak Do they invite you to the house for dinner?

Larry Magid I haven’t been over to the house but the point is that Facebook was afraid of that movie and when that movie came out it was the best thing that ever happened to Facebook and I think that they are writing it right.

John C. Dvorak That didn’t hurt him.

Larry Magid It didn’t surprise me he showed up. Didn’t hurt him at all.

Leo Laporte Just in case anybody might think that T-Pain is somehow a nitwit for getting a…

John C. Dvorak Heaven forbid we think that.

Leo Laporte …a Facebook tattoo, he explains it all on his tweet. I get a tatt every time I come to Hawaii. I think this one’s pretty sweet unless Facebook shuts down soon.

John C. Dvorak He’s very observational.

Leo Laporte Yes.

Larry Magid Don’t you run out of skin real estate after a while and where do put them?

Leo Laporte Every time I come to Hawaii, I get a tattoo.

John C. Dvorak Is Zuckerberg going to get a T-Pain tattoo is the question now?

Larry Magid I don’t think so.

Leo Laporte Oh! Lord. All right. Let’s take a break. I got to take a break after all that. My head is – my brain is swelling. I want to talk about Carbonite and then we’ll get back to our fine panel of penalists. Mr. John C. Dvorak. No college football shirt for you today.

John C. Dvorak Well, college football is over.

Leo Laporte Oh, I get it. So you don’t – you’re a fair-weather friend.

John C. Dvorak That’s the fair-weather, the season’s over. I’m rooting for the – by the way, I should have mentioned this. I am going to be probably, next time I come on the show.

Leo Laporte You’ve got a free Kentucky something.

John C. Dvorak I got a Kentucky shirt, but that’s basketball. I have a couple of basketball hoodies, but there’s a couple of division two and division one teams that I didn’t get hoody from them, the winners of the…

Leo Laporte So, would you like to name those and perhaps…

John C. Dvorak I’ll do it in another show when I can harp on it.

Leo Laporte Okay. Fair enough. Also with us, MG Siegler who is the best thing that ever happened to TechCrunch, if you don’t mind my saying so. Don’t tell Mike Arrington, I said that.

John C. Dvorak I agree with that

MG Siegler I won’t.

Leo Laporte Is he trying to get fired from AOL, is that what’s going on there?

MG Siegler No, I’m not going to get involved there.

Leo Laporte No, you should say a thing.

John C. Dvorak He’s totally trying to get fired from AOL.

Leo Laporte I want to put – I want to just keep the camera on you MG, until you melt away. So did you see what Mike did? I know you did at MG, but did you see what Mike did?

John C. Dvorak What was the latest?

Leo Laporte So remember, he was king of ragging on Joshua Topolsky, Engadget, saying terrible things. This is the number one money making blog for AOL which also owns TechCrunch. The latest thing is he says, I hate those takeover ads, interstitial ads when you go to a website and he says, there’s one on TechCrunch, I am going to get to the bottom of this. I don’t know who sold this, our guys or AOL’s guys, but I hate, he says, the real blogs don’t have interstitial ads. He says, I’ll probably have to go a six-hour meeting with a PowerPoint deck, that’s how much pain I am going to go through on this, but I’m going to fight it. I thought that was pretty funny. Actually I admire him for saying that because I completely agree with him. I think it’s totally bogus.

John C. Dvorak No, I agree.

MG Siegler We all hate that ads.

Leo Laporte Everybody hates that, and I don’t think it helps anybody, because half the time, people – I do intentionally when I get those takeover ads, I just – I say, oh, I guess I don’t want to read that article. I hate it when they go, we’re loading the page…

John C. Dvorak I’ve done that.

Leo Laporte 5-4-3 , yes.

John C. Dvorak I’ve bailed out…

Leo Laporte 3-3-2, yeah. Do this – there’s one thing that’s worst. And TechCrunch has done this. We don’t do this. The blogs that they have like random words underlined, and then if you move a mouse anywhere near that underlining, a whole thing pops up.

MG Siegler I know, I hate those.

John C. Dvorak That’s terrible.

Leo Laporte That just sucks.

MG Siegler I’m always accidentally clicking on those sites and hating them.

Leo Laporte That’s just – yeah, exactly because you end up seeing that.

John C. Dvorak Yes, it’s terrible.

MG Siegler It’s amazing.

Leo Laporte Who thinks that’s a good idea?

John C. Dvorak Some – you know, it’s weird. I have talked to people about some of these crazy ideas and they always blame the sales guys. Where are the sales guys? Because the sales guys, they are working on commission, they don’t care whether anyone comes to the site or not. They just want to sell, sell, sell, and sell, and they ruined many a site.

Leo Laporte But did you drive, well, you drove off…

John C. Dvorak This is why your stuff is so good because you are the guy that says no to the BS.

Leo Laporte Well, I don’t think any ad should takeover a website and then you can’t listen to the show or anything until you get through the ad. What a terrible idea!

Larry Magid Wait a minute, Leo, I have seen ads on your show.

Leo Laporte In fact let’s take a break. I am just going to give you a chance you see for all of to take a little break, you could go to the bathroom or whatever and relax while I talk about backup with Carbonite. Actually I am a big fan of Carbonite is the way to back up everything on your PC or your Mac, unlimited backup for the personal stuff on your internal drive, they don’t back up the operating system, but who needs to do that. Right?

They back up your data. Now, there’s something I rarely talk about, I should really promote. We all are big fans of cloud storage. One of the things that Carbonite does that I think people don’t think about, when that backup is complete, you can log on to your Carbonite account from any computer, you don’t have to wait till a disaster anytime or from their smartphone apps, their free Carbonite smartphone apps and there’s your data. So it’s a way of actually making your data available everywhere you go. Now that’s pretty slick. And this costs $0.15 a day, $55 a year for unlimited back-up, PC or Mac. I think that’s a pretty good deal but I want you to try it before you buy it. So go to right now and you see offer code TWiT,, offer code, TWiT, you get two free weeks. So if you decide to buy and continue to use the offer code TWiT because that’ll get you two months additional absolutely free. It is back-up done right, Carbonite.

I think I have frozen up the TriCaster here, let me see. Yeah. That’s all right, I can – I could still switch, I just – it’s – we’re going to have a Carbonite ad here forever. No, there goes, okay. Everybody’s left. Oh no, wait a minute, Larry is still here, thank you for not giving up on this, Larry. Oh I know what I did, I turned off your microphone, there we go. Yeah, now you may speak. Carbonite. Have you seen this Roy Castillo thing? Did you see that MG, did you get that on your Facebook? Do you know who I’m talking about? That weird – Roy Castillo, it’s weird. It’s just a weird – it’s like a hack. First Zuck’s page gets hacked.

MG Siegler Yeah, I saw that.

Leo Laporte That was wild. And then there is just – yeah, then there is just mysterious Roy Castillo, so I don’t know if it’s a – it’s got to be a hack. It’s a ghost friend – a man’s name but it’s actually a picture of a teenage girl wearing sunglasses with WTF on it. And the – and what happens is you’ll be wondering along in Facebook but also in your news feed, you’ll see Roy Castillo saying Off to Danao City. And you can’t delete it, and you can’t delete him because he’s not in your friends’ list. It’s just a weird. Now Thursday it disappeared. But now there is a Roy Castillo WTF fan page on Facebook. Of course.

MG Siegler Oh yeah.

Leo Laporte Of course. So you too can share the Roy Castillo WTF fun. And I believe as even a Twitter. I just love the Internet. What would we do without the Internet?

Larry Magid I think we should shut it down here.

Leo Laporte This is why they want a kill switch, it’s for something like this.

Larry Magid Right. Exactly.

John C. Dvorak I’ve always thought that Internet should be shut down completely and reengineered.

Leo Laporte For better mileage?

John C. Dvorak No, for better –for the spam prevention.

Leo Laporte Actually we may – you know what? You may get your wish John.

Larry Magid IPv4 – addresses in the IPV6, I mean...

Leo Laporte We call that the iPocalypse.

Larry Magid Right. Incompatible pages and we’re going to have two Internets, as how we’re going to do this?

Leo Laporte I interviewed – we had actually really good interview which is going to be up on your TWiT specials feeds, or actually we have new show, don’t tell John it’s called Triangulation.

John C. Dvorak You’ve taken my old show name?

Leo Laporte We get one episode. And I kept saying come back and do more, and you never did so, I said we got the name we might as well use it. John and I interviewed Larry Lessig, it was your idea to call it Triangulation because it was like two people interviewing a third person.

John C. Dvorak Do I get a gift?

Leo Laporte Yeah, I’ll give you a gift. Give John a gift. I got some Balvenie over there – that’s unopened. Now I’ll give you a gift, we’ve got a gift for you, a lovely parting gift. Anyway this show is a great show, instead of you because you never could show up, it’s Tom Merritt and me interviewing interesting people here. I got – very few people ever get these, this is a TWiT – cloth TWiT patch. And if you want to get a tattoo I wouldn’t stop you.

John C. Dvorak See, here is the gift I get.

Leo Laporte Lovely – I don’t even know where those came from, those are limited edition. They don’t – I don’t...

Larry Magid He gave me a Ford Mustang, so you know what can I say...

Leo Laporte Shhh, Larry...

Larry Magid [Indiscernible] (103:46)…

Leo Laporte Anyway, anyway – I forgot what I was saying.

John C. Dvorak You said you stole my show name and you’re doing with Tom Merritt.

Leo Laporte Oh we interviewed Dane Jasper, who is the Founder of local Internet service provider, actually one of the best Internet service providers ever, an independent ISP called And I asked him about IPv4, v6, because of course it’s – what’s going to happen is Internet service providers. It’s not you that’s going to run out of addresses, it’s the ISPs that are going to run out of addresses. And he said, he’s of the opinion, it’ll never happen. I mean not that it’ll ever going to run out but that will ever get to IPv6, because it’s such a huge technical vertical.

John C. Dvorak There’s a lot of people that have said that over the years. In fact I first heard that’s exact same thing back in the pre-dot-com bubble era, the mid-90s.

Leo Laporte Yeah, well – I mean this – Vint Cerf has been going around saying, we’re going to run out of addresses for years.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, but the thing is with NAT – with network...

Leo Laporte With NAT.

John C. Dvorak NAT and also sharing at the ISP level and all the – if you have a Comcast account and you check your IP, it take like a two week vacation, you come back, you have a new IP address.

Leo Laporte Right.

Larry Magid Right.

Leo Laporte So, that’s exactly. In fact he said, there is going to be something called carrier NAT where they do NAT, so they can get – to get more addresses, there’ll be ways to solve this.

John C. Dvorak No, I believe that we are going to switch.

Leo Laporte You think we’ll going to switch?

John C. Dvorak I’ve taken the other side of this debate. Yeah, there is going to be some patches, and it’s going to happen because there is too much money involved. I mean the kind of money that Cisco would be making, some of these other companies, if we can switch over to IPv6...

Leo Laporte It’s pretty ugly.

John C. Dvorak’s huge.

Leo Laporte Well, that’s right.

John C. Dvorak Huge.

Leo Laporte They’ll want to do it. Everybody has to buy new routers.

John C. Dvorak There’ll be ways. They’ll be able to work around, you watch.

Leo Laporte Hey, all hail Maria Cantwell, the Senator from Washington State, who has introduced a new bill, net neutrality bill. Remember the FCC approved net neutrality regulations but only for landline carriers exempting wireless carriers. She wants to extend – extended to wireless carriers with the Internet Freedom, Broadband Promotion, and Consumer Protection Act of 2011. She’s got my vote. Al Franken cosponsor. They – both of them said the FCC [ph] rules simplify that (106:02)…

Larry Magid It’s a good point, I mean when you think about it that the growing segment of the Internet is not landlines and...

Leo Laporte Right.

Larry Magid ...between all the phones out there and even if Clearwire or somebody else ever gets their act together, LTE, that is definitely where it’s going and if you exempt broadband, what’s the point of doing net neutrality sort of – here is net neutrality for the 20th century Internet, what about the 21st century Internet.

MG Siegler Right, and that’s why it was so disheartening that Google was kind of supporting this along with Verizon, when they brought up that thing. [ph] Most people on the internet have [indiscernible] patented charge. (106:33)

John C. Dvorak They have got something up their sleeve...

Leo Laporte What? What? Google has some up their sleeve?

John C. Dvorak Yeah, I think they are going to become...

Leo Laporte It isn’t Eric Schmidt.

John C. Dvorak I think you’re going to be an ISP and....

Leo Laporte I hope so.

John C. Dvorak ...and they are going to compete with Cingular or maybe they even buy them.

Larry Magid Well even if they don’t, I mean Android – Android is totally dependent. I mean they are definitely, whether they’re an ISP or not, they are very much involved in the mobile industry right now, and they’re embed with all the ISPs, certainly the mobile carriers.

John C. Dvorak Well something’s up with these guys.

Leo Laporte Yeah, it’ll be interesting to see. There is going to be a football game next week.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, the Supra Bowl.

Leo Laporte Supra?

John C. Dvorak That what’s should be called.

Leo Laporte Because it’s better than Super?

John C. Dvorak Yeah.

Leo Laporte It’s Supra.

John C. Dvorak It’s a more modern.

Leo Laporte So I don’t know about you, but I watch – I like the game, but usually the game’s not the greatest football game ever, it’s the commercials that really are.

John C. Dvorak I think the commercials have deteriorated. I think they peaked out around 1999...

Leo Laporte It used to be, you know what – you’re right, it used to be, that was really exciting and now it’s less – you’re right, it’s less surprising I guess.

John C. Dvorak Well, one thing, they are too expensing, so they blow the budget on actually running the ads and then – and they’re all...

Leo Laporte You remember the first dot-com ad, you saw on a Super Bowl?

John C. Dvorak Yeah...

Larry Magid GoDaddy.

Leo Laporte Wasn’t GoDaddy, no, no, no, I think it was....

Larry Magid No, GoDaddy, I remember they’re have an ad this year.

Leo Laporte They are. They have said they are going to have an ad.

John C. Dvorak Those dot-com companies Monster and the rest of them, back in the day, they had plenty of their money to burn, it was before the dot-com crush so they throw it away...

Leo Laporte Right.

John C. Dvorak ...on crazy, creative ideas, and now nobody wants to waste any money so they’ve got the focus groups and everybody comes in and they tell, oh you can’t do that, you can’t do this and so the creativity is down the tubes, it’s not interesting anymore.

Leo Laporte I am trying to remember what the first dot-com...

MG Siegler Dot-com ad one, right? That was...

Leo Laporte Pets – was it Pets? Yeah, maybe it was A lot of good that did them.

Larry Magid That was a big story.

Leo Laporte Yeah.

Larry Magid That was a big story at the time when the net finally made it to the Super Bowl, now of course there’ll be a ton of Internet related ads.

John C. Dvorak I have one of those sock puppets.

Leo Laporte Do you?

John C. Dvorak Yeah.

Leo Laporte The dot – the sock puppet itself?

John C. Dvorak Yeah...

Leo Laporte Yeah, the actual...

John C. Dvorak Yeah, they were selling them...

Leo Laporte Oh that’s cool.

John C. Dvorak They were $10 and there was the last thing that they did...

Leo Laporte The best thing they sold, yeah.

John C. Dvorak ...I should’ve bought two.

Leo Laporte So according to Investor’s Business Daily, E*TRADE Financial, that’s the one with the little baby, right, that I liked that one. Those are good.

John C. Dvorak I don’t like it. I don’t like seeing a baby talk. It’s disconcerting.

Leo Laporte It is disconcerting. But I wouldn’t abnegate it. I wouldn’t eschew baby talking. E*TRADE CareerBuilder will be back, GoDaddy.

John C. Dvorak You think I’m being a like some sort of intellectually...

Leo Laporte It’s all abstruse.

John C. Dvorak Abstruse?

Leo Laporte Yeah.

John C. Dvorak You’re talking about the abnegation word.

Leo Laporte Yeah, it’s all abstruse.

John C. Dvorak So you found it offensive in some sort of way.

Leo Laporte Not offensive, merely...

John C. Dvorak You thought I was being a pretentious...

Leo Laporte I think you’re obfuscating. Perhaps just slightly.

John C. Dvorak [Ph] I didn’t know your show was a hotbed for people [indiscernible]... (109:24)

Leo Laporte It was a little sesquipedalian to be honest.

John C. Dvorak You know you’re being bigot about two-bit words or whatever they used to call them, $2 words, $3 words, I can’t remember.

Leo Laporte I am sorry, just – a trifle sesquipedalian. GoDaddy’s back with those sexy ads – I don’t like those. Bugs the hell out of me.

John C. Dvorak Why?

Leo Laporte I don’t think they should be any sex.

John C. Dvorak You don’t think there should be any teasing, it’s teasing sex.

Leo Laporte It’s teasing. And you know that they do. You know when it really bugs me, they say, for the rest of this super hot commercial go to, you get there nothing happened.

John C. Dvorak That’s the disappointment. We should see people naked.

Leo Laporte I want nudity.

Larry Magid You know what – Go Daddy CEO, Bob Parsons is going to start selling electronic Bibles. I mean I don’t think that the bible belt that gave him his fortune is particularly happy about the way he’s advertising things.

John C. Dvorak He is also notorious for Packrat which was his –

Leo Laporte Packrat, what’s that? Oh, I like Packrat.

John C. Dvorak Remember that? That was Bob.

Leo Laporte That was a great program. That was Bob Parsons?

John C. Dvorak Yeah.

Leo Laporte Well, I take it all back, Bob, because I like Packrat. It was a –

John C. Dvorak That’s when Bob was normal. He is more normal back in those days. Now he’s like a celebrity, you know.

Leo Laporte Yeah., Motorola Solutions, Inc. is going to be back for a second year after sitting out the previous four games., CRM company.

MG Siegler Yes. That’s a big one, right? That’s the new…

Larry Magid Everybody drinking beer is going to love to go out and buy from Salesforce.

Leo Laporte Oh, man. I’ll tell you, I love me some CRM.

Larry Magid Yeah.

Leo Laporte The company will run ad to that –

MG Siegler Google may be – they’ll be back though.

Leo Laporte Google might be back.

MG Siegler That was the – they did that famous one last year, the love one.

Leo Laporte Yes, which we had seen before, was kind of strange. It was the Google search and we had seen it before and I thought, boy, I thought they’d be doing some more original.

John C. Dvorak I don’t remember it.

Leo Laporte Oh, it was a great ad. In fact, there had been a lot of parities and in fact, Google even has a page now where you make your own Google Super Bowl, you have seen that?

John C. Dvorak I don’t remember it.

Leo Laporte I’ll play it later. I don’t want to get many free ads. It’s like $4 million, right, for a 30-second ad on the Super Bowl. It’s a huge amount of money.

John C. Dvorak Some ridiculous amount.

Leo Laporte No, no, I don’t want to hear you complaining about the CPMs here.

John C. Dvorak I’m not complaining. I think it’s a good deal.

Leo Laporte You know who will not be back?

John C. Dvorak Well, actually the CPMs is probably low. I think you probably offering advertisers a tremendous bargain.

Leo Laporte It is too cheap. It’s a fabulous bargain. You know who will not be on? Intel, remember those great ads bam bam bam bam, I love those.

John C. Dvorak Hey, I just found out that guy who was in the commercial where he came in as the big celebrity –

Leo Laporte The rock star?

John C. Dvorak That was the rock star USB guy was an actor.

Leo Laporte No.

John C. Dvorak Yes.

Leo Laporte He wasn’t a very good actor.

John C. Dvorak The guy, the Indian guy who comes supposedly invented the USB, he was an actor?

Leo Laporte That wasn’t the guy who invented USB?

John C. Dvorak No, no.

Leo Laporte It’s lame.

Larry Magid I’m going to take the Intel processor out of my computer.

John C. Dvorak I was stunned.

Larry Magid If I can only take a part of the MacBook Air I’d pull the plug ….

Leo Laporte Take it right out.

Larry Magid I can’t there’s no screws.

Leo Laporte Qualcomm will not be back. and you know what’s not going to be back? And this was the best ad I thought, best tech ad. The guy who was – remember shopping, his wife or girlfriend was making him shop and the announcer says, oh, this is sad. Don’t be like this guy.

John C. Dvorak Oh, yeah, that’s actually pretty funny.

Leo Laporte Those were – that was the FLO TV ad but unfortunately I think FLO TV isn’t doing all that well. So, they don’t have the money for this time round. This is really – you’re right, John, even today, it’s spending the VC’s money when you are at a Super Bowl.

John C. Dvorak Yeah.

Leo Laporte Sprint, MetroPCS, Nvizio haven’t announced whether they will be back neither has IBM. I don’t know; I like watching the ads.

Larry Magid What’s IBM [indiscernible] (112:52).

Leo Laporte Hulu says it will not come back. Remember those great Hulu ads with William Shatner, how Hulu makes your brain mush? Wasn’t it Shatner? Who was it? It wasn’t Shatner?

MG Siegler Alec Baldwin.

Leo Laporte Alec Baldwin. Right, great. I love those ads.

Larry Magid Shatner does Priceline.

Leo Laporte That’s right.

Larry Magid He never actually bought anything on Priceline.

Leo Laporte What, really?

Larry Magid Oh, yeah, he never – he’s going to buy a ticket on Priceline?

Leo Laporte How do I use the Internet – he’s got his own private jet.

Larry Magid He needs a great price airfare?

Leo Laporte Now, here’s the interesting one. Watch carefully. Groupon may have an ad.

John C. Dvorak Yeah.

Leo Laporte I would if I were Groupon. That’s – I would figure that’s the –

MG Siegler They have the money?

Leo Laporte Not only they have the money, that’s the audience, isn’t it?

MG Siegler Yes, sure.

Leo Laporte That’s who you want to get to.

John C. Dvorak I think so, yeah.

Leo Laporte Go Daddy, about two ads. All right, that’s enough.

John C. Dvorak Yeah, I think so.

Leo Laporte Time to go home. John C. Dvorak, you are the guy at Also, noagenda…

John C. Dvorak

Leo Laporte …

John C. Dvorak Which is a – people should check everyday.

Leo Laporte Every Sunday morning.

John C. Dvorak If you’re libertarian and if you are not, don’t watch –

Leo Laporte If you believe in liberty.

John C. Dvorak Liberty and freedom.

Leo Laporte And freedom. Are you for or against Kabletown?

John C. Dvorak Ah, I’m actually for it personally.

Leo Laporte Do you think the merger of Comcast and NBC Universal is a good idea?

John C. Dvorak I don’t have a problem with like everyone else does.

Leo Laporte Yeah, who cares?

John C. Dvorak I think they got to get – they got to do something to – I don’t know I just think –

Leo Laporte It’s a dead industry?

John C. Dvorak I don’t have a problem with Comcast. In fact, generally speaking, I feel that they are comcastic.

Leo Laporte MG Siegler didn’t like that one. He’s at, the man, the myth, the man who powers TechCrunch – powers it. Thank you.

MG Siegler Totally.

Leo Laporte I’ll see you at Hotel [indiscernible] (114:36).

MG Siegler Yes, come by. It’s great.

Leo Laporte Buy you a beer.

MG Siegler Cool.

Leo Laporte And Larry Magid from You of course hear him on CBS Radio all the time. Thank you, Larry, for joining us.

Larry Magid Oh, it’s fun.

Leo Laporte Really appreciate it and we thank Anas Qtiesh for joining us earlier to talk a little bit about what was going in Egypt, fascinating story there. Thank you all for joining us. Tom Merritt will be filling in for me next week but it will be a great show, I’ve already seen the proposed panel and it should be marvelous. I will be back a couple of weeks, three weeks from now with all my other stuff.

MG Siegler Have a great trip, Leo.

Leo Laporte I’m excited. I’m really jazzed.

MG Siegler Yeah, have fun.

Leo Laporte I won’t do – I shouldn’t take a three-week vacation. It’s a bad idea, but I couldn’t …..

John C. Dvorak I think you need some time off.

Leo Laporte I do, I do. I’m looking forward to it. Let’s see you can watch the show every Sunday 3:00 PM Pacific, 6:00 PM Eastern at but do subscribe as well because that’s the way to guarantee you got every episode either audio or video on your computer the minute it comes out.

Thanks, everybody. We’ll see you next time. Another TWiT is in the can.

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